1 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,399 Speaker 1: Hi, guys, and welcome to a new episode of You 2 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: Need Therapy Podcast. I'm Cat and I am the host. Okay, 3 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: so if you're new, Hi, welcome, and I'm so happy 4 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: you're here. You have arrived on a very very special day. 5 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: But before I get into the topic today and introduce 6 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: you to our guest, I want to put out a 7 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: quick reminder that although I'm a therapist and actually our 8 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: guest today is as well, this podcast does not serve 9 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: as a replacement or substitute for actual therapy. We hope 10 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: it might encourage you to go if you're able to, 11 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: but it itself is not therapy. Now, I wanted to 12 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: do a little intro today, especially because we are talking 13 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: about something that can make people feel really uncomfortable and 14 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: has a lot of different kinds of stigmas attached to it. 15 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: We're talking about sex, and I know you guys have 16 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: been wanting an episode on purity culture. You're still going 17 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: to get that, you definitely are, So I know a 18 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: lot of you guys want to talk about that part 19 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: of sex and what that is and what that does 20 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: and all that comes with it. But there's a lot 21 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: more to cover when it comes to sex. A lot 22 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: more and we can't cover it at all. But I 23 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: was talking to the guests today before we hit record 24 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 1: about how I wanted this to be an episode that 25 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: kind of like dipped our toes into the idea that 26 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: talking about sex can be normal and it actually is necessary. 27 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: And I think our conversation definitely did that. I'm very 28 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: pleased with it and it was an amazing conversation. So 29 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: who is our guest? Her name is Nicoletta Heidegger, and 30 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: she is not only a license marriage and family therapist, 31 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: but she has a master's and human sexuality and is 32 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: pursuing her doctorate and that as well. She is a 33 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: practicing therapist and she specializes in sex therapy, which if 34 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: you're like, oh my god, what the heck is that? 35 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: That sounds crazy? What does she do? We talk about it, 36 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: don't worry. We talked about it, We cover it, and 37 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: I want to let you guys know also up top 38 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: that she also hosts her own podcast called Sluts and 39 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 1: Scholars that I highly recommend, which if you're like me 40 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: and I first saw the title that podcast, I was like, 41 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, and I had all these feelings and 42 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: all these thoughts. Don't worry you're not alone. And she 43 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: actually explains why she named her podcast that at the 44 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 1: end of the episode, So that's a little bit of 45 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:29,959 Speaker 1: a teaser to get you to listen to the whole thing. 46 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: And I actually love her podcast. I think it's awesome. 47 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: I think it's necessary, and it's so helpful, and I'm 48 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: so grateful that she has it. Now I have to 49 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: say this because it deserves to be said. Nicolotte was 50 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: one of the easiest people for me to interview for 51 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: this podcast, because she's so kind, she's so warm, she's 52 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: so full of amazing information, and you can tell she's 53 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: passionate about what she's doing. She really wants to help people, 54 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: and you can totally feel that being even over zoomed 55 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: with her. Also, little disclaimer, halfway through the conversation, you 56 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: might notice a little bit of an audio change because 57 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: you know, I made a mistake because I'm a human 58 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: and also a human who doesn't really understand technology, and 59 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 1: I didn't realize that Zoom reinstated their forty minute limit 60 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: because during COVID they let that go away. If especially 61 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: if it was just a meeting with one of the 62 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: person you could have a meeting for as long as 63 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: you wanted. So I got the notification during our interview 64 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: that was like, oh the limit. And then I was like, 65 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: oh no. And then I was like Nicolotta, we have 66 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: to you know this is there's no sentences coming out 67 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: of my mouth. I was clustered. I was like, we 68 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: have to stop and restart. She was so cool about it, 69 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: like so cool about it, so easy, and she was like, oh, 70 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: we can just hang up and then I'll call you 71 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: back and I'll record it on my end, not knowing 72 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: that I could also have started my own meeting and 73 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: I also could have recorded on my end too, But 74 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: now we know for future take a little lesson from SHAWNA. Nquist. 75 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: I hadn't learned that yet, and now I learned it, 76 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: so everything's coming full circle. So I just wanted to 77 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: say that one because if you notice a little bit 78 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: of the audio shift, that's what that is. And too, 79 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: it was just another example of like how like easy 80 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: going and cool she was. She could have been annoyed 81 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: or mad or I don't know, been like why don't 82 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: you know what you're doing? Your a podcaster, but she 83 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: was like, oh, I totally get it. I get this 84 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: kind of stuff. It happened. This kind of stuff happens 85 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 1: to me all the time too. It just made me 86 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: feel okay to mess up and be myself, which we 87 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: need those reminders. So thank you Nicolette for being the 88 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: human you are. And I feel like I should stop 89 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: talking about my technical difficulties and I should introduce the conversation. 90 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: So here's my conversation with Nicolette. I hope you enjoy 91 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 1: it as much as I do. Please do not hesitate 92 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: to email me any questions that you have, because I'm 93 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: definitely going to have her back on at some point. 94 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 1: So you can email Catherine at you need Therapy podcast 95 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 1: dot com. Maybe it's a question I can answer and 96 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: couch talks, or maybe it's a question that can help 97 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,160 Speaker 1: get Nicolette back on the show. Also follow her. I'm 98 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 1: going to link all of her instagrams for a podcast 99 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 1: and her personal in the show notes. And I hope 100 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: you enjoy it. I already said here's my conversation, but 101 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 1: I wanted to say all that, so again, here is 102 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: my conversation with Nicolette. I hope you enjoy it. I'm 103 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: so glad you're here. I've been looking forward to this 104 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: and I'm on vacation right now. But I was like, 105 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: I know, but I was like, I've got to do this. 106 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: I want to do this episode, and I want to 107 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: do as soon as possible. Okay, So the cool thing 108 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: about you is that you are a multitude of things. 109 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: Your podcast host, you are pursuing your PhD, your licensed 110 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: marriage and family therapist, which I love. But then also 111 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: you're a sexologist. And for anybody who might read that, 112 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 1: they might be like, what the heck is that? So 113 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: I would like to start with like the basics here one, 114 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: what got you into pursuing becoming a therapist? And then 115 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: you go down this because we all then pick expertise 116 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: and what we want to like really hone in on 117 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: you then got a master's in human sexuality, and now 118 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,239 Speaker 1: we're pursuing a PhD. And so what brought you there? 119 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 1: And then we need to know what is a sexologist 120 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: and what is sex therapy? Well, firstly, thank you for 121 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: asking those questions, and you know, to anyone listening, I 122 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 1: know that even like the topic of this can like 123 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: elicit a lot of feelings, and that was one of 124 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 1: the reasons why I decided to specialize insects. So I 125 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 1: had a great therapist growing up, which was really lovely 126 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: I think for me to be able to start talking 127 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 1: about and feeling my feelings. When I first went to therapy, 128 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: it was when I was a teenager and my mom, 129 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: I guess encouraged would be the gentle word, encouraged me 130 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: to go and I was not about it. I was like, 131 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: I don't want to go to therapy therapist for crazy people. 132 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 1: I had stigma about it myself. And she was like, 133 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 1: you know what, you can just go and talk it 134 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: about me. And I say, what a horrible mother I am. 135 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: And she wasn't a horrible mother, but you know, I 136 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: was angsty and and my own stuff going on, and 137 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 1: so I went and I just talk crap about my 138 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: mom and you know, complained and all that stuff. But 139 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: then over time I realized how it could help me 140 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: in in all the things in my life and relationships especially, 141 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: And so when I went to college, I ended up 142 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: working at the Sexual health like peer Resource Center, which 143 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: was a place that people could come and get advice 144 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: and tips about sexuality. They could learn about safer sex practices, 145 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: they could get condoms, they could even ask questions about 146 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: STI testing and get tested UH and so I ended 147 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: up working there as well as at a peer counseling center, 148 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: and I liked it so much. And even before college, 149 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to have some parents and some 150 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 1: people in my life who actually talked to me about sex, 151 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: which is a novel thing for most people, I think 152 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: in our culture, so I wasn't among the majority there. 153 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: I think most people like didn't even have people that 154 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: could they could talk to about this. So I ended 155 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: up becoming the person that people would come to and 156 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: ask questions or like in sex said class, the one 157 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: class that we got, which was like so minimal and 158 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: most people don't really get any I remember my friends 159 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: would be like, can you ask this question? Can you 160 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: ask this question for me? Because they were afraid to 161 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,239 Speaker 1: ask it themselves out loud? Yeah, because they were afraid 162 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: to ask it out loud or even say the words. 163 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: And so I somehow got kind of lucky just with 164 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: some people in my life where I learned to even 165 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: get used to saying these words out loud. So by 166 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: the time I got to college and worked at the 167 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: Sexual Health Resource Center, I knew it was something I 168 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: felt comfortable with. I know it was something I was 169 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: passionate about And then the more I studied in the 170 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: field of therapy and psychology, I realized that it is 171 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: just another field where we also don't talk about sex. 172 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: And so most therapists are only required And I'm in California, 173 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 1: so it's different states to state. Um are only required 174 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: to take one class if at all, on humans do 175 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: any and it's yeah, you didn't do any. So some 176 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: states don't require at all. So if you're someone who 177 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: grew up, no one was talking to you about sex. 178 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: There wasn't any type of sex said. And then you 179 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: go to grad school and there's no classes in human 180 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: sexuality and you have a aren't coming in who's talking 181 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: about their relationship, but you're not talking about sex. You're 182 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: missing so much. There's so much there, and so I 183 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: was just feeling even more frustrated looking at the field 184 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: and being like, Wow, this is a field where we're 185 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: supposed to be able to talk about whatever we want, 186 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: no judgment, but even the therapists don't feel comfortable talking 187 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: about it. Can I tell a story really quick? Oh 188 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: my gosh, please, that just made me think about this one. 189 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: I didn't. Haven't you mentioned sex ed? That didn't have 190 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: that we did not have that. And in our like 191 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: pe class in high school, we had like health but 192 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: like that it's like where condom or It's like it's 193 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: like mean, girls, you will you if you have sex, 194 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: you'll die, You'll conclimdiona die. But as I didn't have 195 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: anything high school. And then in college and I did 196 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: child and Family studies and we took one human sexuality 197 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 1: class but it was like, I mean, it was like 198 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: a joke. I don't remember anything from it, and I 199 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: think nobody really wanted to talk about that stuff, so 200 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: we just like touched the surface. And then in grad 201 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: school nothing and my first internship, so I started as 202 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,079 Speaker 1: somebody who did like the BPS is the biopsychosocial So 203 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: for anybody who doesn't know what that is, it's just 204 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,959 Speaker 1: when a client comes in, you like go through everything. 205 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: It takes like two hours, their whole history, everything about them. 206 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: And I was doing it with men women, people older 207 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: than me and people younger than me, and there was 208 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: a section about sex and so you had to ask 209 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: like are you sexually active? Have you ever had sex? 210 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,200 Speaker 1: Like that? That thing which is also like what does 211 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 1: that even mean? Right? So but at that time I 212 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: would never have thought to even think that though, because 213 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: I was like, you just let me just check this off. 214 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: But then there is one question that you had to 215 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: ask do you masturbate? And then you had to ask 216 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: how often? And I cannot tell you how uncomfortable. Sometimes 217 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: I would skip the question because to me, like sex 218 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: is one thing, but masturbation we do not talk about that, 219 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: and we also don't do it, and if you do 220 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: do it, that's bad and like how embarrassing because we're 221 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,079 Speaker 1: taught to rely on another person for our pleasure. Yeah. 222 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: So I remember going to my supervisor and like kind 223 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: of tattling on myself and being like I hate this. 224 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: I don't want to do this, especially because I was 225 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: at one point working with like men my age, and 226 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: I felt uncomfortable and I put my discomfort on them. 227 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: And so she made me sit in her office and 228 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: say the word masturbation and asked that question over and 229 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: over like until it felt like I was saying, like 230 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: do you have shoes on? Like she just wanted me 231 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: to say, until it felt like I was saying anything else. 232 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: And that did help, But I just like, as you're 233 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: talking about that, saying, well, the therapists are uncomfortable, Yeah, 234 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: I probably did not open up space for a lot 235 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: of what people needed space for back then because I 236 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,239 Speaker 1: didn't want to talk about it. So just saying therapists 237 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: need this too. And you know what, even I know 238 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: this episode isn't about like O B G I N 239 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: S and things. And this again, this isn't the same 240 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: state to state, but most O B G U I 241 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,439 Speaker 1: N S. And again, these are the people who deliver 242 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: your babies, give you pap smears. Most are not required 243 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: to take any classes in human sexuality, and so they're 244 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: doing you know, procedures and things on you sometimes without 245 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: a working knowledge about kind of the sexual medicine specialty. 246 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: So people have to get a specialization in sexual medicine 247 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: to be able to kind of see clients on that 248 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 1: specific topic. Okay, we're gonna go back, but I just 249 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: have to ask this because that makes me think of 250 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: like vaginis, Smiths and all that. Like if I'm having 251 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: like issues and pain, and I would think I would 252 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: go to my gynecologists, but you're saying like they might 253 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: not even know about that, you would have to then, 254 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: so you go to a gynecologist, and if it's uncomfortable 255 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 1: for you to do that, to be honest, a lot 256 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: of people just have trouble going to the doctor for 257 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: anything because of fear of doctors and all that. So 258 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: then I would have to go make another appointment after 259 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: that with a specialist. I just imagine that feeling like 260 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: even my GINO can't help me. Something's wrong with me. Yeah, look, 261 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 1: it is a systemic issue, and unfortunately there are some 262 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: wonderful kind of coologists out there. So I think the 263 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: field is you know, obviously necessary and that might be 264 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: the first place to start. But yes, some people don't 265 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: have that specialization. But I think if you're listening and 266 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: there's any takeaway, just know that if like something is 267 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: bothering you, whether that be pelvic pain or pain during 268 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: sex or really painful periods, if your O, B, g U, 269 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: I N is not giving you options and sort of 270 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: experiences and things to do with that, that it's not 271 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: the end of the line. There are things to be done. 272 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: There are other people, And I think that would be 273 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 1: like my ideal takeaway from folks at those conversations that 274 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: I know it can be scary to even ask the questions, 275 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: but just know that, like if you've ever thought of it, 276 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: or it pops into your head. Someone is out there 277 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: to like support you. Someone is out there who's also 278 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: experiencing the same thing like it is. It's out there. Yeah, 279 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,439 Speaker 1: And it goes back to like that fear of asking 280 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: questions when you're in school. We've all felt that, whether 281 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: it was in a sexuality class or anything like that. 282 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 1: I felt it, and basically any class I was afraid 283 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: to ask a question because I felt like I was 284 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: the only one thinking it or wondering it. And usually 285 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: there's like three other people at least that are sitting 286 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: are not wanting to ask that too. So yeah, yeah, 287 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 1: you aren't alone, and there are are people out there. 288 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: So yeah. And so I imagine you're going to therapy, right, 289 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: and you maybe want to talk about sex, but you're 290 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: not sure how to bring it up. And then your therapy, 291 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: like you know, your therapist doesn't even bring it up, 292 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: and then it just doesn't get talked about. And so 293 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: I do see a lot of clients who come to 294 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: see me who have been like, oh, I've been in 295 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: therapy for five years, ten year, you know, however long 296 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: one year or whatever, and they're like, and I can't 297 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: talk to my therapist about sex. Every time I bring 298 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: it up. They seem uncomfortable and maybe the therapist is 299 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: maybe it's just their own discomfort. Um. But I have 300 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people who come see me as like 301 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: a specialist in that area. And so yeah, I think 302 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: when I was in in my master's, my first master's 303 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: program for marriage family therapy, I just realized how uncomfortable 304 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: everyone was, and like, I don't blame you, I don't 305 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 1: blame therapists. I think this is a systemic issue, right, 306 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: like you said, it starts from birth, Like if no 307 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: one talks to us about our body, if no one 308 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: talks to us about anatomy, if no one talks to 309 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: us about sex, there's no sex said, it's not happening 310 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: in classes, Like if you don't have a supervisor you 311 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: did that maybe helps you work on some of that. 312 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: How are you expected to get comfortable within your own 313 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: self to even be able to say those words and 314 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: ask those questions, um, and to be able to help 315 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: a client. And so I saw that and I was 316 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: like the fact that I'm feeling more comfortable or have 317 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: done some work to feel more comfortable about this, Like 318 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: I have to specialize in this. That therapy cannot be 319 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: another place where we don't talk about sex. Okay, So 320 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: then you went and got a master's in human sexuality 321 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: and then now you're getting your PhD. And one of 322 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: the things you do is you work with clients on 323 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: this and you do sex therapy. So I'm making this assumption. 324 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: But since a lot of people don't know what therapy 325 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: is and then make assumptions about that, there's probably some 326 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: assumptions about what sex therapy is. So can you just 327 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: tell us what that actually is and what you do. Yeah, 328 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: So to go back to the word you said before, sexologists, 329 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: sexologists just me and someone who studies set or someone 330 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: who like to study sex professionally. Sex therapy would be 331 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: and this depends state to state, but it's, you know, 332 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: a therapist that specializes in issues relating to sex. Most 333 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: states in the US except for Florida and maybe a 334 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: few others, do not require additional training to call yourself 335 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: a sex therapist. Um, and so there are it's hard 336 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: for the consumer. Yes, so most of them do get training, 337 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: but there's not like a governing licensing board in most 338 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: states where you like have to be a part of 339 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: it to say I'm a sex therapist or I do 340 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: sex therapy. So I would say for the consumer, it's 341 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: important to look and see and ask someone like, what 342 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: is your training in this if you are looking for that. 343 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: But in terms of what it actually is, um, I 344 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: guess the simplest way I would break it down is 345 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: it's like talk therapy, but we actually talk about sex. 346 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: And so that's like the simplest way that I can 347 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: break it down, I think. And then in terms of 348 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: like who comes to see me or what kind of 349 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: like people reach out for that it's totally the gamin 350 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: across the board. So I would say the most common 351 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: thing that I see is people who are in a 352 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: relationship where there I wouldn't use this word, but they 353 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: call it our sex drives to our libidos are not 354 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: lining up. So this is like every partnership or every 355 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 1: marriage that exists out there, um, but it's people who 356 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: aren't aligning. Someone's wanting sex more than the other person, 357 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: or the way they're lining up isn't working. Another thing 358 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 1: I that's pretty popular that I see folks for is 359 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: just people who aren't having the kind of pleasurable sex 360 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: that they want. So that could be folks who have 361 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: never had an orgasm, or people who are having painful sex, 362 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: or people who aren't having sex at all and don't 363 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: know what to do. And when I say sex, I 364 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: really like broadly define it. So I think in our culture, 365 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 1: we are taught that sex is intercourse. You know, sex 366 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 1: is something going and something else. Usually that's a penis 367 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: and a vagina, and to me, sex can be so 368 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,719 Speaker 1: many other things. And so I also see people who 369 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: are dealing with struggles around their sexuality, their orientation, their gender, 370 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: people who have had trauma, and a lot of people 371 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: have had trauma, and trauma could be I never got 372 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 1: sex education, and then I was expected to enjoy sex 373 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 1: like that could be trauma for something. And then I 374 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: would say, the most common thing that pops up for 375 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: everyone I see is shame. So sexual shame, body shame, 376 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 1: bodily functioning shame, existing shame, like you know, just shame. Yeah, well, 377 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 1: and you know, I'm glad you brought up shame. So 378 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 1: you have a podcast called Slats and Scholars, and I 379 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,719 Speaker 1: was listening to a couple of episodes and then I 380 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: was just like looking at all of the episodes and 381 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: reading the titles, and it was so cool for me 382 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 1: to see just this thing that's just like out on 383 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,239 Speaker 1: the internet, that's not like bleeped out. It doesn't have 384 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: like the word. You can read the words, because I 385 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,199 Speaker 1: feel like a lot of words that are just like 386 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: body parts, right, So even you saying like penis and vagina, 387 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: it's like, well, you shouldn't, you shouldn't say that. But 388 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: like I thought it was so cool because even just 389 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: like seeing that was like normalizing some of the stuff 390 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: for me as a human. And well, we know, what 391 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,360 Speaker 1: we do know is that like shame lives eats breathe 392 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: off of silence. So the more we're not talking about something, 393 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: the more we're not saying a word, the more shame 394 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: that is getting kind of like covered on top of 395 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: that thing. And then we're teaching us, oh, this is bad, 396 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: this is bad, this is bad. And so the more 397 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 1: we can see something and hear it and read it, 398 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: the more we're like, wait a second, this isn't that bad, 399 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: This isn't that, this isn't bad at all? Is this bad? 400 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: I don't I have space to decide for myself. Yeah, 401 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: I love I love that you bring that up, because 402 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: this is something that I teach a lot of people 403 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: just about their own experience growing up and not talking 404 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,199 Speaker 1: about sex, but also for new parents and how to 405 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: talk to their kids about this stuff, because the shame 406 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: starts really early, and you named it with the key thing. 407 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: It's the shame starts with not even saying the words 408 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: of the actual body parts. And so that's often how 409 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: a lot of young people start feeling shame because they're like, Wow, 410 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 1: this thing on me, my genitals, my whatever is so 411 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: bad that we can't even say the words. So like, 412 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: let me and I invite you know, listeners to ask 413 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: themselves this, what did your family members, caregivers wherever you 414 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: grew up, what did they call your private parts? Like 415 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: she she batcha pp your privates? Like what, I don't 416 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: know who? Yeah, like all of these made up words 417 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,360 Speaker 1: and like you know, sometimes it's cute, it's funny, it's 418 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: okay if that's like an additional word that you use. 419 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: But for a young person to learn that even that 420 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: the actual name of this is so bad that we 421 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: can't say it, that elicits so much shame in a 422 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: young person. Well, because nobody's calling like your arm something else. 423 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: It's just like your arm, So nobody's having a shame 424 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: of the fact that they have an arm that's so interesting. 425 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: So I don't know if you have an answer to this, 426 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: but like, why do you think that comes from? Like 427 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 1: why do you think that we are coming up with 428 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: these nicknames that then elicit the shame response? Was there 429 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 1: shame around this first? Or did we create this? I mean, like, 430 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: I think, I think we live in a culture that 431 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: is definitely has a lot of puritanical roots. I think, 432 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,479 Speaker 1: you know, the majority of this culture is practicing some 433 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: type of religion, and I think there's been a lot 434 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: of you know a lot of things in religious communities 435 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: about you know, sex before marriage and things like that, 436 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: and so I think the purity culture that we've grown 437 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: up in definitely elicits like not an open conversation or 438 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: dialogue as something that like shouldn't be talked about. I 439 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: also think that there's still a myth that if we 440 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 1: teach or talk to young people about sex that that 441 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: means they're going to be having more sex as opposed to, oh, 442 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: this is going to help them make more informed decisions. 443 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 1: But additionally, not teaching the names of things is also 444 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: bad for young people to be more at risk for 445 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: having like sexual assault things happen and not reporting it 446 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: or not saying something about it, or not knowing how 447 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: to say something, Because if you don't even know the 448 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: names of parts of your bodies or what something is 449 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: or what's going on, if something non consensual happens to you, 450 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 1: how are you supposed to even tell somebody or tell 451 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 1: someone that they were doing something that wasn't okay or 452 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 1: wasn't consensual, or even name the things that happened. If 453 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: you're just saying, you know, my shes right, There's two 454 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: things that popped up in my head as you're saying that. One, 455 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: there's plenty of reasons why people don't report abuse, whether 456 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 1: they're younger or older. But but I think, yeah, this 457 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,199 Speaker 1: is a reason for not not knowing. But but but 458 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: I also was thinking like that actually makes it adds 459 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,679 Speaker 1: another layer too. I'm not going to report this because 460 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: there could be one reason. And then on top of that, 461 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: talking about this thing is embarrassing and shameful, and so 462 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: I don't want anybody to know. Like, you didn't ask 463 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: for that. So it's not like you were like, oh, 464 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: do this thing or I want to It just is 465 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: so I think for a lot of people that why 466 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: didn't you report that? Why don't you do that, because one, 467 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: I don't know how, I don't know what words to say, 468 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: and that's even embarrassing. Or I don't even I don't 469 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 1: even know that this is right or wrong because nobody's 470 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 1: talked about this thing with me. The other thing that 471 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: popped up as you were saying that this is so interesting, 472 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: I'm just having like a like you hit like a 473 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: memory in my head. I was telling you how we 474 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: didn't have any education on sex in high school. You 475 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: know what we did have? And I grew up in Franklin, Tennessee, 476 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 1: which is right outside of Nashville, like thirty minutes outside 477 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,439 Speaker 1: of Nashville. So we didn't have any sex education, but 478 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: you probably did have an abstinence purity commitment, Yes, we had. 479 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 1: They were called teens in Touch, and I remember that 480 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: they were high schoolers and they would come to the 481 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: middle school and they were always like I remember when 482 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: they came to when I was in like I don't 483 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: know about six or seventh grade. They came and I 484 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: remember they were like the jocks. It was like the 485 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: cheerleaders and the like football players or the soccer players. People, 486 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: so like the yeah, the people that you want to 487 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 1: be and then they were I remember this and the 488 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: people that you want to have sex with. So I 489 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: remember this one guy. I will not say his name, 490 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: but he I'm pretty sure he played baseball, but he 491 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: was like a popular He was like a senior in 492 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: high school probably at the time, or maybe a junior. 493 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: And he told the story about how like because you 494 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: tell like why, So he says the reason he was 495 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: doing it because he wanted to give this gift to 496 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 1: his future wife, blah blah blah. And I was like, 497 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: that is the most romantic thing I've ever heard in 498 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: my life, Like all this stuff. And then I ended 499 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: up joining this group when I was in high school, 500 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: which was so funny because everybody in that group was 501 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 1: having sex. They were all having sex, and it was 502 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: like so because we heard about it, like we all 503 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 1: talked about it outside of the thing, but it's like, 504 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: why are you in this group because you want to 505 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,360 Speaker 1: maintain this image? I guess I don't know. I can't 506 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 1: speak for everybody, but it's so interesting to me that 507 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: we did not have any education on how to have 508 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: safe sex. We didn't have any education on like what 509 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: is happening in your body or anything, or language or understanding, 510 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 1: but we had we did have groups saying don't do it, 511 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: and and for moral reasons, Yeah, I think there's nothing 512 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,439 Speaker 1: wrong with having that if that is your choice, and 513 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: if you want to wait until marriage, like that is 514 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,239 Speaker 1: totally fine your decision. And I think then I end 515 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: up seeing a lot of couples who have been taught 516 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: for most of their life that sex is not okay 517 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 1: and that sex is something that you should wait, that 518 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: it is this big gift, and then people put so 519 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: much pressure on it, but also don't know how to 520 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: go about connecting or doing things physically. So then they 521 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,360 Speaker 1: get to marriage and they're like, what do we do? 522 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 1: And so a lot of people will struggle with even 523 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: experiencing pleasure, or they will struggle with erectile difficulties, or 524 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: they will struggle with orgasm ng coming before they want 525 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 1: to premature ejaculation, Like all these things are happening because 526 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: it's like you're waiting, waiting, waiting, and then you're putting 527 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 1: this thing on a pedestal. And then you also like 528 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: don't have any any tools or education about it, and 529 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, because it's the right person 530 00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: that you're supposed to be with, for the rest of 531 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 1: your life. Then you're expected to like know what to 532 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: do and it's just supposed to come naturally. It does 533 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: not come naturally, yeah, okay, and then when it doesn't, 534 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: then it's like it's another lay of shame. Absolutely. Yeah. 535 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 1: And I actually went on a purity retreat when I 536 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: was in high school, so I will be honest. I 537 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: it was so backwards because I went on this purity retreat, 538 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: but I started going to like the teen groups at 539 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 1: the church that my parents were going to because I 540 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 1: thought the boys were hot. And so I was like, 541 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,879 Speaker 1: I want to go to like the teen you know group, 542 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: and it was fun and they had a rock band 543 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,719 Speaker 1: and you know, it was a very like, you know, 544 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: forward whatever church. And so I was like, oh, but 545 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: all these like I wanted to meet like hot boys 546 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 1: that were in, you know, at the same age. And 547 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: so I went on this purity retreat, but in the 548 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 1: back of my mind the whole time, I was like, 549 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,439 Speaker 1: where are the hot guys at? Uh? So, you know, 550 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: I did go on this retreat and experience and it 551 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 1: was it was interesting to hear about just all the 552 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: different experiences and like what some of the like mentors 553 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: and and sters and things were saying, and um, I 554 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: definitely like bought into it for myself for a while. 555 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: But I also think that I was able to come 556 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: from a place of what I would call informed concern, 557 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: Like I had these ideas of like, what are my 558 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,159 Speaker 1: options out there? This is one option, but what else 559 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 1: is available to me? Yeah, it wasn't just one option you. 560 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 1: You had choices, And I think that I'm really glad 561 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: you said that, because there's no right or wrong way 562 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: to decide what you want to do with your body. 563 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: I just want people to have the ability and experience 564 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: to be in charge of their why. Like I'm choosing 565 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: to wait till marriage because of a decision that I made, 566 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: not based in shame, but based in information and based 567 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: in like how I feel and what I want versus 568 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: what I should do or I'm choosing not to. And 569 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: it's also based in the same thing. And I think 570 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,959 Speaker 1: that's really important in something that I didn't see growing 571 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: up because we didn't talk about it. So the choices 572 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: I made were I thought they were for me, but 573 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: you didn't have enough to think about, like what narratives 574 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 1: actually informed that I'm working. I mean, I think when 575 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: we talk about shame. We can't forget to include control, 576 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: because when I think there's any feelings of shame, there's 577 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 1: also an aspect of control. And control could be control 578 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 1: of what a beautiful body is supposed to look like, 579 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: or a control about like being sexual. It's all it's 580 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,400 Speaker 1: to me, it's all based in control. And I think 581 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,120 Speaker 1: this comes from a place in our culture and capitalism 582 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: and whatever, where like control benefits the smoothness of a culture, 583 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: you know, where people aren't thinking as much for themselves 584 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: or making decisions or things that make it difficult to 585 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: control everybody. As you said that, I kind of was 586 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: like I thinking about somebody who's like sitting up tall 587 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: and not afraid to like walk through a door were 588 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: and say what they need after what they need, or 589 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: be whatever person that it is that they want to be. 590 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: But I feel like a lot of the work that 591 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: I do with clients, and you can probably attest to this, 592 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: is that we're helping people like actually do that set 593 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: up tall, and we're helping people actually wait a second, 594 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: like we're talking about choice, Like this isn't me. I 595 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: I'm acting this way because what I've been taught or 596 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: what I thought was gonna get me x y Z. 597 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: How do I actually sit with like my like my 598 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: posture not embarrassed and shameful when I actually start talking 599 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: about who I really am? How do I sit up 600 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: taller and have my shoulders back? I mean, that's really cool, 601 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: and I'm glad you've said that, because I don't think 602 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: people want to acknowledge that part or even even know 603 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: to acknowledge that part that. I mean, if we're empowered 604 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: in one sense, it's going to offset the gain of 605 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: some whether it's somebody else or something else. Yeah, And 606 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: so I think when we're talking about like where does 607 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 1: this shame come from? I mean, I think there's so 608 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: many layers. Sometimes it's purity culture and religiou and sometimes 609 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: it's just our parents didn't learn this, and their parents 610 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: didn't learn this, and they never taught us about this. 611 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's coming from that place of control. Sometimes it's 612 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: I don't know, just coming from like media and popular culture. Right. 613 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: I think that's another area, Right, Like when we're watching 614 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: movies or rom coms, like what are the usual sex 615 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: and intimacy scenes that we see? Right, it's sort of like, oh, 616 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: two people connect and they both have an orgasm at 617 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: the same time, the same time, and it happens from 618 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: penetration alone, which is not true for most people who 619 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: are women. And so we're watching this and it's not 620 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: like they really talk about it before. They don't talk 621 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: about like, well, what kind of sex do you want 622 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: to be having? Like what are the things that you 623 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: want to do? What are some things you don't want 624 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: to do? What brings you pleasure? Show me? You know, 625 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 1: it's just kind of like all the stars align and 626 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: it's hot and this happens. And so if you're not 627 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: having that and you have no other information being fed 628 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: to you, of course you're going to compare yourself. And 629 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: it's the same with like beauty stuff too, righte Like 630 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: we're looking at actors or social media and then comparing 631 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: ourselves to somebody's highlight reel and thinking like, there's something 632 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: wrong with me. And so I think it comes a 633 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: lot from like the media as well advertising. You know, 634 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: it's we're trying to sell of whatever someone decided was 635 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: the ideal. Yes, And okay, so I specialized in eating 636 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: disorders and body image. So they're saying that such a 637 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: huge intersection of sex and eating disorders because it has 638 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: to do with the body. Oh, we could do a 639 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: whole three hours on that, but I'm so glad you 640 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: used that example, because you're right, just like I talk 641 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 1: all the time with clients or even on the podcast 642 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: about like you do not understand that you are looking 643 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,479 Speaker 1: at something that actually is most of the time not 644 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 1: real or it is that way because they have the 645 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: resources and the time and the energy and and when 646 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: it comes to like now there's this new age of 647 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: like influencers, and influencers can be awesome. And one of 648 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: the things that also is hard about them is that 649 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: they're supposed to be like normal people, and so I'm 650 00:31:58,080 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 1: supposed to be able to relate to them, But then 651 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: that their skin looks this way, and their their fridge 652 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: when they open it up looks that way, and how 653 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: did they cook dinner that many times a week for 654 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: their family? And I'm supposed to relate to this person 655 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: because it's just like me. But the thing is they're 656 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: not just like you. Their job is to be an influencer. 657 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 1: Their job isn't this, And then they also have to 658 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: do all those things that you want to do, so 659 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: that comparison is so parallel to like if the only 660 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 1: experience I have of seeing or talking or knowing about 661 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: sex is from these movies because my parents aren't talking 662 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: about it, the school isn't talking about so my friends 663 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: aren't talking about it, and then I don't want to 664 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: talk about it. Well, then I see it in in movies, 665 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: and depending on what kind of I mean, I think 666 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: there's most of the time the same no matter what 667 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 1: kind of movie, it is the same scenes what you've described, 668 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,239 Speaker 1: And then I might start engaging in sex and I'm like, 669 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: wait a second, I'm something is wrong here. I'm not 670 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: doing it right because it's not like that, and am 671 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 1: I missing something? So I just wonder, like when you 672 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: get the get clients, when you work with people, that 673 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: that's their experience. My fear around all of this, and 674 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: why I think I even started with tell me what 675 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: you even do, is because I don't know that people 676 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: know that there are people that can help, Like, there 677 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 1: are people out there that can help with this, and 678 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: they might not know the questions to ask and that's 679 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: something that you can help with. But when they see that, 680 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: and because there is such a layer of shame, is 681 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: there a part of the brain somewhere saying like I'm 682 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: messed up? And wrong, don't talk about it or wait 683 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: a second, something's off. I need a little bit of help. 684 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,239 Speaker 1: I mean, I do think there is and it's not 685 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: like an innate brain thing that happens. Like I said, 686 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: I think it's because of because of culture that if 687 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: we I think a lot of us are taught that 688 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: when you find the person you want that sex is 689 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 1: just supposed to maybecome naturally if you're even allowed or 690 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: supposed to have sex at all. And so I think 691 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: there is this assumption of like, oh, it's just supposed 692 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: to be natural, and so if it's not quote unquote natural, 693 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: then something's wrong versus this is something to learn, like 694 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: having great sex is something to learn. It is an 695 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: ongoing practice. This is my field and I still work 696 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: on it all the time with my long term relationship 697 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: and and myself. You know, it is an ongoing muscle 698 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: to be worked. There's a quote that a lot of 699 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: sex educators, uh and therapists will use about Actually it 700 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: brings up kind of the topic of what you were saying, 701 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: that it's about porn, and so I think a lot 702 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: of people have issues with porn and they think that 703 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: porn is the problem. But to me, more of the 704 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: issue is that we don't have other sex education, and 705 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,879 Speaker 1: so most people are just learning their sex head from 706 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,840 Speaker 1: things like movies and porn. And so the quote that 707 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 1: comes up for a lot of therapists and educators is 708 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: that you shouldn't learn to drive from watching The Fast 709 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 1: and the Furious, just like you shouldn't learn to have 710 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,879 Speaker 1: sex or watching porn. Right, this is done by professionals 711 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 1: most of the time, or athletes or people who are performing. 712 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: It is done for entertainment, and so I think, you know, 713 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: if we don't have these other tools and resources to learn, 714 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: then we are comparing ourselves to the entertainers. So like, yes, 715 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: people like me exists out there. There are also sexuality 716 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: coaches are also educators, But I would say like maybe 717 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 1: sixty percent of the things that I do with clients 718 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: is just education. We call it psycho education, educating people 719 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,799 Speaker 1: about things that they never learned. And I could tell 720 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 1: you some of the top things I have to educate 721 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: people about. I think that's a good way to kind 722 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,720 Speaker 1: of like wrap kind of all this up. But first 723 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 1: I have to say this, because you were telling that 724 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,479 Speaker 1: story of like that people learn how to have sex 725 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 1: by watching porn, and the image I got. I'm do 726 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: you watch New Girl? Honestly, not enough to probably know 727 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: the reference. Okay, so I love New Girls, one of 728 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,840 Speaker 1: my favorite shows, and I forget what had happened. I 729 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: think she was going to have Oh she had only 730 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 1: ever had sex with her boyfriend that she had had 731 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:39,879 Speaker 1: of six years, and so she was dating this new 732 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: guy and she want to have sex with him, but 733 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 1: she was really nervous, so she ended up watching porn. 734 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,479 Speaker 1: She was watching one of the guys that she lived 735 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,800 Speaker 1: with his computer. She was like glued, like I stuck 736 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: on there for hours watching it, and it freaked her out. 737 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: She was like I can't do this, blah blah blah, 738 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: and it was like this whole thing. And I think 739 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,399 Speaker 1: that's very interesting that you say that. It's like, well 740 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: it because where else was she going to go? Like 741 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,720 Speaker 1: could she just go have a conversation with her partner 742 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: about it? Could you go have a conversation with one 743 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 1: of her friends about it? Has anybody ever talked her 744 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 1: about it? So I think it's interesting how that Yeah, 745 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 1: they you said as a joke, but it's real life 746 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: is playing out like that. But yeah, let's go into 747 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,959 Speaker 1: I want to know, the top things that you either 748 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: are passionate about educating people about, or the top things 749 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: that you end up just talking about and and kind 750 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,239 Speaker 1: of teaching people like me. I mean, I would say, 751 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:32,759 Speaker 1: I think I already said this, but one of the 752 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: main things is that like connecting sexually with yourself for 753 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 1: another person, like doesn't just always come naturally for most people. 754 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,279 Speaker 1: And so I think a lot of people feel that 755 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: if they are aligned with the person that they think 756 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 1: they want to be with or date or get married to, 757 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: that it like should just line up in some way, 758 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: or that when things stop becoming spontaneous that something is wrong. 759 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: And so I think that's like the biggest myth that 760 00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: I help people bust, is just helping them to know 761 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: that having pleasurable, enjoyable connection with yourself and others takes 762 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,479 Speaker 1: work and practice and really intentional work in practice. And 763 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: there are people out there like myself to help folks 764 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 1: with that. So A, it takes practice. B you don't 765 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,840 Speaker 1: have to do it alone. If you are feeling like 766 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 1: totally terrified of the concept of like sex therapy, A 767 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: maybe like easier. I don't know if it's easier for 768 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,919 Speaker 1: whoever's listening, but like a maybe softer step to try 769 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 1: first is there's some really great apps that feature like 770 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: card decks that talk about sex and intimacy, and so 771 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,359 Speaker 1: you kind of instead of like initiating the conversations when 772 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,719 Speaker 1: you've never talked about sex stuff, blame it on the 773 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 1: card deck, right. And they have like one that my 774 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: colleague makes that I've actually helped write some of the 775 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: sex and relationship questions for is called love Wick, and 776 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: they have card decks about everything from like meeting the 777 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 1: parents to how do you travel together, to money to children, 778 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 1: to finances and sex and relationships. So like, if you're 779 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: feeling scared to just dive into the topic of sex, 780 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 1: like look a little more broadly and then you know, 781 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:06,719 Speaker 1: try some of these things and being like, oh, well 782 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: the cards asked, you know. I think some sometimes that's 783 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: that's all that clients need to for me, is like 784 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,440 Speaker 1: permission to talk about sex. So even if it's scary, 785 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 1: if like someone says it first, there's permission to even 786 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,879 Speaker 1: talk about that topic, whether that be a doctor asking first, 787 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: a therapist asking first, the card deck asking first, so 788 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,399 Speaker 1: that someone doesn't have to ask first. Um, I think 789 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: that's one of the main things I think another thing 790 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 1: that I see, and this is for people who have vaginas. 791 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: I I say it like that because some women don't 792 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 1: align with having a vagina, so basically people who have 793 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 1: a vagina. I think the most common thing that I 794 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 1: see for those, uh, those folks is thinking that they 795 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:53,040 Speaker 1: are supposed to have an orgasm from penetration alone. This 796 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: is probably the biggest thing that I have to educate 797 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 1: a lot of clients on is most people think, because 798 00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 1: of the movies they've watched, because of lack of sex ed, 799 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 1: because of whatever, that if they are having penis and 800 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: pagena penetration, that they think they are supposed to have 801 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 1: an orgasm. But in fact, only about maybe ten to 802 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:18,400 Speaker 1: of women are able to experience an orgasm just from penetration. Wow. 803 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,319 Speaker 1: So a lot of the work that I do is 804 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 1: just teaching people about their anatomy, about their like physic 805 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 1: you were talking about that biopsychosocial model, So anatomy about 806 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 1: what the parts are called, about what is actually physiologically 807 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: required for a desire for pleasure response for things like that. 808 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:39,880 Speaker 1: So just helping people bust some myths about their expectations 809 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 1: for what sex is supposed to look and feel like. 810 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,319 Speaker 1: I'm just like, I don't know what the feeling is 811 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 1: right now, I can't identify it. But I'm just imagining 812 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 1: how many people out there. Ten is not a lot, 813 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 1: So I'm just imagining how many people out there are like, 814 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 1: something's wrong with me, or I'm doing it wrong, or 815 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,959 Speaker 1: it could be a slew of different things. And then yeah, 816 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 1: and most people don't. Yeah, they don't tell their partner, 817 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 1: they don't know what they like. You don't even know 818 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 1: what to say. And then we wonder why people aren't 819 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: wanting to have sex. Well, who would want to have 820 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,759 Speaker 1: sex that they're not enjoying? Yeah? Right, oh my gosh. Okay, 821 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,239 Speaker 1: all right, so that's important. So everybody rewind and listen 822 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: to that part again. Okay, so those are two things. 823 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,359 Speaker 1: Is there anything else that's that's big or comes up 824 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,880 Speaker 1: all the time? Just if you're listening and you're like, okay, 825 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:29,400 Speaker 1: well that's good to know. What the heck do I 826 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,880 Speaker 1: do with that? Um? I always refer clients to read 827 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,880 Speaker 1: two books. One is called Come as You Are. I 828 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:37,879 Speaker 1: bought that book. I haven't read it, but I did 829 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,800 Speaker 1: buy it, Yeah, by Emily NAGASKI. I think it's wonderful. 830 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,279 Speaker 1: Another is called becoming clitter It Who's that? By your 831 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: Laurie Mints, And so if you're listening and you're resonated 832 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 1: with what we were just talking about, that would be 833 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,879 Speaker 1: a great place for you to start. Yeah, So this 834 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 1: is interesting that I found out about Emily by a 835 00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: podcast she was on. It was an episode of Girls 836 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:01,799 Speaker 1: Got to Eat. It was a while ago, but I 837 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,600 Speaker 1: remember listening to the episode I think it was during 838 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,399 Speaker 1: the summer and sending it to my friends and being like, 839 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,160 Speaker 1: oh my god, I can't believe that somebody is finally 840 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 1: talking about this. And I'm sure there's more people talking 841 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,319 Speaker 1: about it, but it's not in my worldview. And I 842 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,839 Speaker 1: listened that podcast pretty regularly, but I was like, this 843 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,399 Speaker 1: is such a and the way she was talking, she's 844 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,719 Speaker 1: much like you. The way she speaks about it. It's 845 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,439 Speaker 1: just so like this is like these are words coming 846 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 1: out of my mouth. There's nothing that this is just 847 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 1: like I would talk about eating disorders, where I would 848 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: talk about where I'm going later today. And so it 849 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,320 Speaker 1: was such a cool conversation to hear her talk about 850 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,319 Speaker 1: sex from not such a like a just like matter 851 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 1: of fact, yes, And it was from to me felt 852 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,600 Speaker 1: like more of a woman's perspective because my experience of 853 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 1: when people talk about sex it was all about the 854 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,359 Speaker 1: men that if you're having sex with a man, his experience, 855 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,040 Speaker 1: and I was like this, thank god, somebody is talking 856 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,279 Speaker 1: about this part of it. So I definitely recommend. I 857 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,440 Speaker 1: haven't read her book yet, but I'm just gonna commended 858 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 1: already because you did and I haven't. I mean, I 859 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,279 Speaker 1: look at it. I think, to me, it's good for 860 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,760 Speaker 1: everyone with any body parts. Um, if you love someone 861 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,479 Speaker 1: who has a vagina, it's good read for you. Yeah. 862 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:14,719 Speaker 1: But yeah, look, I think I really want to like 863 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,360 Speaker 1: own and give people the space to like get comfortable 864 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,759 Speaker 1: even hearing this topic or talking about these words, because 865 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 1: if you have grown up in a space where this 866 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:24,879 Speaker 1: just like wasn't supposed to be talked about or aren't 867 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 1: used to the words like it's not just your mind, 868 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:29,839 Speaker 1: that is like saying I don't want to talk about 869 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,279 Speaker 1: this like it's your body. It's like on a cellular 870 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,320 Speaker 1: level that you're nervous system like, No, this is such 871 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 1: an unsafe, uncomfortable topic for me to talk about. And 872 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,799 Speaker 1: so I don't blame you if you're listening and you're 873 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,719 Speaker 1: like having a big body experience because this is so 874 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,239 Speaker 1: layered and it brings up so many things culturally, socially, 875 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,959 Speaker 1: in our own body is physiologically like and to maybe 876 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,080 Speaker 1: be facing some of these topics for like the first 877 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:59,080 Speaker 1: time in any kind of public setting is really freaking scary. 878 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:01,520 Speaker 1: And so a lot of my work with clients sometimes 879 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 1: is can be really slow and just like I said, 880 00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,720 Speaker 1: asking those questions, but also like having people practice even 881 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,040 Speaker 1: saying the words or being in a space where there's 882 00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,759 Speaker 1: even permission to say some of the words or learn 883 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,319 Speaker 1: new words like that can take time. Like if you've 884 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: been living your life one way for twenty plus years, 885 00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:22,279 Speaker 1: it's not going to be so easy. Like this is 886 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: my job, you know, I've I've had to practice saying 887 00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,279 Speaker 1: these words a lot, and so it definitely takes some 888 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,240 Speaker 1: time and practice, and you don't have to do it alone. 889 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 1: Like like I said, there are groups, there are books, 890 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,200 Speaker 1: there are therapists, there are coaches, they're educators, Like this 891 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,560 Speaker 1: is something that you deserve and can have support on 892 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,840 Speaker 1: and it exists out there. Yeah, and I'm very grateful 893 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 1: that it exists. And I just want to say to 894 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,919 Speaker 1: whoever is listening to this, that like if you are 895 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,399 Speaker 1: having an experience and you don't want to have that experience, right, 896 00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:55,920 Speaker 1: So if you are like, oh, this still feels so uncomfortable, 897 00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:57,960 Speaker 1: but I want to be like down with this stuff 898 00:43:58,000 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 1: and I want to be able to talk about it 899 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,120 Speaker 1: with my friends or my partner whatever, But I still 900 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,279 Speaker 1: having this like almost like this ikey, like my body 901 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,600 Speaker 1: is rejecting it. Yeah, that is a normal experience. And 902 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,719 Speaker 1: just like anything that you do, especially in therapy, like 903 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,160 Speaker 1: talking about it once doesn't just like shift everything, Like 904 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,959 Speaker 1: you're going to have to go through some new experiences 905 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,239 Speaker 1: and have new experiences and do them over and over 906 00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,719 Speaker 1: again to create a new way for your body to interact. 907 00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,200 Speaker 1: And so I want to now do a whole episode 908 00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,520 Speaker 1: on sex and trauma and all that. And I know 909 00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,920 Speaker 1: you do have some I saw I saw one episode 910 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,880 Speaker 1: that also I think it was might have been fairly newer, 911 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:36,040 Speaker 1: but I went all the way back, so I could 912 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,120 Speaker 1: be wrong, But it also talked about attachment. You had 913 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,359 Speaker 1: an episode about like trauma and attachment and sex, and 914 00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,160 Speaker 1: so I do want to say again, if if you're 915 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,719 Speaker 1: listening to this episode and you're like I kind of 916 00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:48,719 Speaker 1: want more or I don't know if I do, but 917 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,560 Speaker 1: I want to see if I do. Go to her 918 00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:55,920 Speaker 1: podcast Sluts and Scholars and go to your Instagram. You 919 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,160 Speaker 1: have too, so you have one for your podcast and 920 00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:59,719 Speaker 1: then one for you so when you shout those out, 921 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,040 Speaker 1: yes please. Um So, if you are listening and would 922 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:04,880 Speaker 1: like to hear more of what I'm doing, and I 923 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:06,680 Speaker 1: would love to come back anytime you want to talk 924 00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:10,160 Speaker 1: about anything in those topics, my podcast is Sluts and 925 00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,799 Speaker 1: Scholars and I use that word with love, so again 926 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,080 Speaker 1: as we're talking about getting used to words, UM, I 927 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,920 Speaker 1: use that word because I think as women, we've been 928 00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,080 Speaker 1: judged a lot for our sexual behaviors, and so I'm 929 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,439 Speaker 1: kind of trying to take it back through the Shame 930 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,440 Speaker 1: Free Education podcast. If you want to follow me directly, 931 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:30,160 Speaker 1: I met therapy with Nicolette on Instagram. Uh and yeah, 932 00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,520 Speaker 1: I hope you yeah your journey on this topic if 933 00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,759 Speaker 1: you're listening, and thank you for even tuning in because 934 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 1: I know for some this can be a scary topics 935 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,719 Speaker 1: even broach. So I'm thinking about too, what would be 936 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,000 Speaker 1: cool to talk about, especially because we kind of touched 937 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,000 Speaker 1: on a little bit like diet culture and body image 938 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,960 Speaker 1: and sex and the intersection between those and how they 939 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,200 Speaker 1: affect whether we're able to engage in it or whether 940 00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,360 Speaker 1: we think we deserve it, or what we need to 941 00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,200 Speaker 1: do or or be to deserve that or engage in it. 942 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,920 Speaker 1: I might be doing some thinking on that and and 943 00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 1: have you back because I'd be very cool. But thank 944 00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,040 Speaker 1: you so much. This was great. If I had three 945 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:07,880 Speaker 1: more hours, we would be sitting here for three more 946 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:09,640 Speaker 1: hours because I have more things on this list that 947 00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,239 Speaker 1: I made. But I think this was necessary and I've 948 00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,000 Speaker 1: been wanting to have a conversation like this over here 949 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:16,520 Speaker 1: for a long time, so thank you.