1 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:09,960 Speaker 1: Hi. 2 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 2: I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 2: and speaker. 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 3: And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer, 5 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 3: and course creator. We are two working parents who love 6 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 3: our careers and our families. 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about 8 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 2: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 2: from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. 10 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life. 11 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. 12 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 2: This episode, we believe is airing toward late March of 13 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. Sarah and I are recording a live 14 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 2: episode together here in Naples, Florida, where we've gathered to 15 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 2: talk future planning for best of both worlds and have 16 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 2: a little fun at the same time time. So this 17 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 2: is an episode where we're going to be answering questions 18 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 2: that listeners sent in readers of our various blogs. So 19 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 2: just quick reminder for people, Sarah, how can they reach us? 20 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, so, you can find my website at the shoebox 21 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 3: dot com t H E. S hubox dot com. You 22 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 3: can always leave a comment there and of course, if 23 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 3: you're a Patreon number, then you can always reach us 24 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 3: that way as well. 25 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, or leave it for me on Instagram, I'm at 26 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 2: el vandercam, or my blog Laura vandercam dot com. 27 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: Lots of ways you can reach out to us. So 28 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: we will go ahead and dive right in. 29 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 2: So this first question is from somebody who has a 30 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 2: very common dilemma as children start getting into school age. 31 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 2: She says, I need a split shift childcare, as in 32 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 2: somebody to cover the morning and the afternoon with like 33 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 2: activity coverage because she and her husband both. 34 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: Need to be at work before school starts. 35 00:01:57,840 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 2: And then the kids need running around in the afternoon, 36 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 2: and so what should she do for childcare? 37 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I guess it depends how late in 38 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 3: the afternoon, because truthfully, this could potentially just be someone's 39 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 3: full time job, like if you need someone from let's say, 40 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 3: I mean there is overtime that you'd be paying as well, 41 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 3: but it isn't totally unreasonable to hire someone for fifty 42 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 3: or fifty five hours per week, or maybe perhaps there's 43 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 3: one day that you don't need as long. But if 44 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 3: we're talking really like into the evening, like your kids 45 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 3: have activities at seven or eight pm. Then yet you're 46 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 3: not going to be able to have the same person 47 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 3: also cover the morning. So I mean my thought is 48 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 3: to either have two part time people or to see 49 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 3: if there's any way you could find kind of a 50 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 3: unicorn employee, maybe a college student or something like that 51 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 3: that might be willing to actually especially they live very 52 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 3: close by, to do the morning and then do their 53 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 3: own things so they're not on your time, and then 54 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 3: come back and then work some hours in the afternoon. 55 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 3: I recognize that may not be easy to find for 56 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 3: every one. 57 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, this is obviously why a lot of 58 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 2: people who have school age kids wind up doing before 59 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 2: care and after care if that's something that your school 60 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 2: winds up offering. I mean, the challenge with that, obviously 61 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 2: is that aftercare means not doing the activities that are 62 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: not located at school, and so you know, if you 63 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 2: need someone to drive around to that that's going to 64 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 2: be challenging. You might still be able to do beforecare 65 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,839 Speaker 2: at school and then hire a part time person for 66 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 2: doing afternoon activities. That could be an option depending on 67 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 2: the ages of the kids. I mean when people first 68 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 2: encounter this, because kids are like in preschool age, and like, 69 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: do I still need a full time person if my 70 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 2: kid is going to pre school from nine to noon? 71 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: And generally the. 72 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 2: Answer is yes if your hours are not particularly flexible, 73 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 2: or you and your partner both travel, and you kind 74 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 2: of just have to get your head around the idea 75 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 2: that you are then paying for hours that the person 76 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: is not actively caring for your kids. And I know 77 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 2: that that is obviously not an easy mindset. I mean, 78 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: you know, sometimes it's financially not going to work. But 79 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 2: for people where there are options, just getting around that 80 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: little mental block can go a long way. And I 81 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 2: see this mental block all the time. I mean, people 82 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 2: who can work from home and have young kids will 83 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 2: sometimes go to incredible links to avoid paying for nap 84 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 2: time coverage. 85 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: Right, Like it's saying, could I have. 86 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 2: Somebody come from eight to one and leave right and 87 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 2: then I have the nap or so you know, it's good, 88 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 2: like they don't want to pay for time when the 89 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 2: person is not actively carried. But it's just you got 90 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 2: to get your head around this idea that yes, you're 91 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 2: gonna wind up paying for time that the person is 92 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 2: not actively working. But if you need the coverage, I 93 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 2: mean if both of you are on a train into 94 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 2: the city forty five minutes away at seven point thirty 95 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 2: and your kids have school from nine to two, Yeah, 96 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 2: you just can't not have that, you know what I'm saying. 97 00:04:58,760 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: I don't know. 98 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:04,559 Speaker 2: Either it's two peopleeople, or it's one person who wants 99 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 2: the time to do something else during the day, or 100 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 2: you wind up. 101 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: Paying for all of it. 102 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 3: OH pair should be okayer, just because obviously not everybody 103 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 3: wants to have someone in their home, but we've had 104 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,280 Speaker 3: so many guests have great luck with OH pairs, and 105 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 3: they can work this very type of flexible schedule because 106 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 3: they are physically located where you are. So for them 107 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 3: to dive in and work and care for the kids 108 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 3: for a couple of hours and then be off duty 109 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 3: while the kids are in school and then put in 110 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 3: more hours when they get back is actually kind of 111 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 3: like what they're there for. 112 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. 113 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, So that tends to be a great solution for 114 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 2: people who are in this situation. And then you know 115 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 2: the person is there too, right. So again, if the 116 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 2: two of you are both commuting to a city forty 117 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 2: five minutes away or something, and you have a need 118 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 2: to rise during the day, then you could start the 119 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 2: clock for an O pair again or something like that. 120 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: You know. 121 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 2: Anyway, it's it's a solution that a lot of people 122 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,799 Speaker 2: do wind up choosing in that situation. It's not for everyone, 123 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 2: but it might be slightly more affordable if you have 124 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 2: the space. 125 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 3: All right, should we go to our next question, Let's 126 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 3: do it. This one comes from a listener who says, 127 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 3: I'm drowning in chores. I have a cleaner every two weeks, 128 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 3: but it's the daily pickup and home maintenance stuff like laundry, dishes, 129 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 3: et cetera that I am struggling with. So how can 130 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 3: I find this less daunting? 131 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, this is the thing, you know that people 132 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 2: need to Another realization people have is that a cleaning 133 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 2: service makes your house cleaner if they come every two 134 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 2: weeks or so, but it may not actually save you 135 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 2: a ton of time. Yes, you don't have to do 136 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 2: then the major stuff, like you know, vacuuming all the 137 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 2: spaces that you wouldn't have done as frequently, or maybe 138 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 2: cleaning some lesser used bathrooms or something like that, But 139 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 2: that's not what the bulk of time spent on housework is. 140 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 2: The bulk of time is those sort of daily choices 141 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 2: like doing the dishes, cleaning up the kitchen. You know, 142 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 2: those things are harder to outsource unless you have someone 143 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 2: there very frequently, So that is an option. 144 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: You know, you could hire. 145 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 2: A part time housekeeper, even a small number of hours 146 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 2: a week if you found somebody who was willing to 147 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 2: do I don't know, nine hours a week, come three 148 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 2: days for three hours. That is three days that you 149 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 2: wouldn't have to be doing most of those things. And 150 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 2: obviously that person could keep the house quite clean, would 151 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 2: be doing the daily dishes and kitchen clean up on 152 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 2: that day, and could do all the laundry, and so 153 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 2: that would pretty minimize a lot of the other stuff 154 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 2: you had to do. But there are other options too. 155 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 2: If that's not going to. 156 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 3: Happen, yeah, I mean certainly making a really concerted effort 157 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 3: to look at what your standards actually are and maybe 158 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 3: see if there are things you can cut out or 159 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 3: worry about less or like maybe decide something like I 160 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 3: will tidy the kids rooms once a week and like 161 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 3: the rest of the time, if it looks like a 162 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 3: volcano of clothing and toys erupted in there, like that's okay. Also, 163 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 3: having fewer things definitely makes it easier to pick up, 164 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 3: although I'm preaching to myself about that because that can 165 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 3: be a losing battle with multiple kids that get things 166 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 3: that don't necessarily want to let go of, so I 167 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 3: understand that's not always easy either. Another thing could be 168 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 3: if you have a partner having a discussion about chores 169 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 3: and not in a general way, but maybe suggesting that 170 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 3: there could be vertical ownership of a couple of things, 171 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 3: Like if laundry is always stressing you out and you're 172 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 3: basically doing everything else, maybe that would be something that like, 173 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 3: if they appreciate that you're doing everything else, maybe they 174 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 3: could just do all the laundry or all the dishes 175 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 3: or whatever it is. Like, I think that maybe bringing 176 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 3: up and bringing to light kind of like Evrodsky's task cards, 177 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 3: Like we had her on as a guest and she 178 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 3: has an interesting approach to this, but kind of bringing 179 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 3: into light what is being done and if it's really 180 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,319 Speaker 3: disproportionately falling on one party, figuring out if maybe the 181 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 3: other party can vertically own some of these things to 182 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 3: share the load a little bit more equally. 183 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's actually a slight tie in with the previous question. 184 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 2: In that if you are paying somebody for childcare and 185 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 2: there are hours when they are not actively with your children, 186 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 2: then obviously this person could take on a lot of 187 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 2: the chores that you would have been doing. But you know, 188 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 2: if people are in a situation where their kids are 189 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 2: in day care, for instance, they've got the fortnightly cleaner, 190 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 2: that's yes, you're still going to have a ton of 191 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 2: daily chores to deal with, and so either figuring out 192 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 2: how to reduce them as much as possible, ignore them 193 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 2: to the degree that you can. I mean, simpler meals, 194 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 2: one pot meals, so there's not as many dishes, kids 195 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 2: re wearing their pajamas, you know, anything you can do. 196 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: To make it be a little bit lower of a burden. 197 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 4: All right. 198 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 3: Our next question comes from a listener who's got some 199 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:58,239 Speaker 3: younger kids, and she's asking what format for little kid activities? 200 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 3: Is there anything you do virtual instrument lessons for example, tutoring, sports, 201 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 3: et cetera. What do you do outside of the house, 202 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 3: what do you do in the home? And what anything 203 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 3: still come through a screen? 204 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, well we do, I mean for older kids though, 205 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 2: we've done virtual tutoring. So that's actually a really cool 206 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 2: breakthrough In the past few years, as you zoom and 207 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 2: virtual conferencing, all that has become more of an option 208 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 2: because you can then match up with a tutor who 209 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 2: has availability and expertise in the subject. 210 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: Even if they are nowhere near you. 211 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 2: And again for older children that you may not be 212 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 2: quite up on your calculus and need help with that 213 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,079 Speaker 2: or whatever. They're taking a foreign language that you don't speak, 214 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 2: this can be great. Jasper's actually got a Spanish tutor 215 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 2: currently who lives in South America and so obviously she 216 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 2: speaks Spanish perfectly because she's from there and she can help. 217 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 2: She's also a teacher, so she can help him, and 218 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 2: that has been a really great thing that, you know, 219 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 2: helping with conversation partnership and all that. 220 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: I will say, little kids and zoom. 221 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 2: Is really really hard. I would be very careful about that. 222 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 2: Just from Sarah, both of our experiences with having young 223 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 2: kids trying to learn virtually during the pandemic, it was 224 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 2: not very effective. 225 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 4: Learn in big quotes. 226 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 2: I learned in big quotes more like hiding under a 227 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 2: chair and refusing to yeah yeah, refusing to come over 228 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 2: to zoom. But music lessons could be great to have 229 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 2: somebody come to your house again, especially if you have 230 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 2: a bigger instrument like a piano that you have won there, 231 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 2: or if your child's going to play the cello or 232 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 2: something like that. Not having to deal with portable aspects 233 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 2: of anything is good. Although a piano studio would have 234 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 2: a piano, But we have done that for music lessons 235 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 2: for again kids who are probably you know, I haven't 236 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 2: started them till the kids are more like first or 237 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 2: second grade. But have somebody come to your house to 238 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 2: teach music lessons has been good in that that's one 239 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 2: less place to drive. 240 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 3: Yes, I can see that we actually don't. We do. 241 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 3: We have one kid in music lessons, and we do 242 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 3: go to a studio in Parks. I was having trouble 243 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 3: finding someone. 244 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 4: That could come to our house. 245 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 3: But I will say one benefit of the studio if 246 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 3: you do live in a very open plan home and 247 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 3: have multiple children. I think about, like whether she'd actually 248 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 3: be able to concentrate with someone in our house, and 249 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 3: I'm not sure it would have worked out all that well. 250 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 3: It'd be different if we could put her in a 251 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 3: separate room. But if it's a piano, you don't really 252 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 3: have a lot of. 253 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 2: People can't move it it is where it is. 254 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 3: Yes, So yeah, we don't really do anything virtual. We've 255 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 3: done a couple of like, yeah, we did do some 256 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 3: like reading tutoring virtually back in the day, but that 257 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 3: was more pandemic specific. Mostly we do things out in 258 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 3: the open. And I will say, the number one thing 259 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 3: that will kind of help me decide on saying yes 260 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 3: to an activity and not is like, is it pretty close? Yeah, 261 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 3: because obviously if your kid has some specific passion that 262 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 3: is only available far away. I can think of a 263 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 3: blogger whose son is super into diving, and I know 264 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 3: she has to bend and we'd backwards to make that 265 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 3: work for him, but there probably isn't any diving right 266 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 3: near her. But barring that, man, it is great that 267 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 3: I can get to the gymnastics place in like nine minutes. 268 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. 269 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, when in doubt, go with the closer one. 270 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 2: I think that's one of our operating principles here at 271 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 2: the best of both worlds, that the less time spent 272 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 2: in the car the better. I'll just throw out that 273 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 2: I'm doing strength training virtually. I meet with a trainer virtually. 274 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 2: That's something that I hadn't really thought of as being 275 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 2: an option, but it turns out that it is that 276 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:35,719 Speaker 2: the person can sort of be on an iPad er 277 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 2: phone and see you can move the phone or iPad 278 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 2: around and they could see your home gem. 279 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: And yeah, it's been great. 280 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 4: There you go. So better for adults and for kids. 281 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: Better for adults and kids. 282 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 3: All right, Well, I'm going to ask this one because 283 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 3: it's for you. Okay, question for the mailbag for Laura. 284 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,199 Speaker 3: Have you ever thought about updating your books? 285 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 4: In particular? 286 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 3: Do you think anything has materially changed since COVID. 287 00:13:57,880 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny how we have these questions. A lot 288 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 2: of them come back to sort of COVID things. 289 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: Some things have changed. 290 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 2: So the proportion of knowledge workers who are doing some 291 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 2: of their work at home has risen a ton. And 292 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 2: I'm sure people have just seen this in their own lives, 293 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 2: Like if your friend gets a new job, you're not 294 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 2: surprised to hear that it's largely virtual, right, Like You're 295 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 2: not like, oh that's crazy, You're like, oh, yeah, sure, 296 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 2: she found a remote job. Or just people who would 297 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 2: have been going into the office five days a week 298 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 2: or even you know, four because they'd been in the 299 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 2: company forever and so they were allowed to work from 300 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 2: home on Fridays. Now it's more like going into the 301 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 2: office two or three days a week, and nobody bats 302 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 2: an eye at that. 303 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: That's more the expectation. 304 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 2: So I think that's cool because that technology has been 305 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 2: around for about two decades, but it has been not 306 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 2: you because culture is hard to change, right, culture is 307 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 2: hard to change. That said, a day still has twenty 308 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 2: four hours. A week still has one hundred and sixty 309 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 2: eight hours. People are not more put upon now than 310 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 2: they were in the past. And this is just one 311 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 2: of my things that personal pet paves about time. Everyone 312 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 2: always believes that they have it rougher than anyone else 313 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 2: in history. And so I'd look at magazines from the 314 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 2: nineteen fifties where people will be complaining about how busy 315 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 2: they are with everything going on. There's no way they 316 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 2: could possibly be busier. And then, you know, I started 317 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 2: writing about time in the early two thousands, and people 318 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 2: definitely thought they were busier than the nineteen fifties then 319 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 2: because of all this other stuff going on. Now we 320 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 2: have two career couples and the internet and then email 321 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 2: and then and then of course you know, now people say, oh, 322 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 2: you started writing about a time and what two thousand 323 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 2: and five, two thousand and six, and like things must 324 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 2: have been different then we're so much busier now. It's like, no, 325 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 2: we are not. But we are not busier now. You know, 326 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 2: if you look at stuff like the American Time You survey, 327 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 2: people are sleeping more statistically significantly amount more than over 328 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 2: the past few decades. That's partly it's just an aging population, 329 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 2: like you know, as people get a little bit older, 330 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 2: that number might go up. 331 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, but I thought people with their phone in their 332 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 3: face at like midnight would have like that surprises me that. 333 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 2: People are saying that's great. Well, you know, it's not 334 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 2: always good. It could be good, it could be other things. 335 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 2: There's smaller families, for instance, people spend fewer years in 336 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 2: the intense childcare stage. 337 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: So it's just. 338 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 2: People like to believe they've been busier than ever before, 339 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 2: but fundamentally we are not. And so when you get 340 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 2: your head around that, I think it's a little bit more. 341 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 2: You know, it brings more possibilities. So you say, if 342 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 2: I have a story that I'm busier now and people 343 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 2: are busier than they ever been, then we don't think 344 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 2: about how we want to spend our time. Whereas if 345 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 2: if you acknowledge that most of us have some amount 346 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 2: of discretionary time we did before COVID we do now, 347 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,239 Speaker 2: then we start thinking about what we'd like to do 348 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,479 Speaker 2: with it, and that just opens up all sorts of 349 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 2: more possibilities. 350 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 3: I love that as we're speaking and we are in 351 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 3: the same room, I pointed the book I'm reading when 352 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 3: you said that, like, we're not more put upon now 353 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 3: because I'm reading The Covenant of Water, and like, yeah, 354 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 3: let me just say that, like my life and our 355 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 3: lives and probably most of you listening to this is 356 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,840 Speaker 3: like probably a lot easier than most of the people 357 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 3: I'm reading about in this book. 358 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 4: Yes, leave it. 359 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 2: Absolutely all right, Well, let's take a quick ad break 360 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 2: and we'll be back with more from our mail bag. 361 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: All right, we are back. 362 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 2: Sarah and I are talking here live in the same 363 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 2: room in Naples, Florida. So if this sounds a little different, 364 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 2: we apologize. It's not our recording studios. But we're enjoying 365 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 2: sitting next to each other. So please bear with us 366 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 2: on this, Sarah. So this question is for you. Thoughts 367 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 2: on the new large digital calendar frames hearth being one 368 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 2: that a lot of people have purchased, but maybe you 369 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 2: can describe for people who don't get the Instagram ads 370 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 2: for these sorts of things. What are we talking about 371 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 2: large digital calendar frames and what would be the upside 372 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 2: of having one of these? 373 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, so Skylight is another common brand. That one was 374 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 3: kind of like an earlier I think prototype and actually 375 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 3: a one time best of both worlds sponsor their photo frame, 376 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 3: not their calendar frame anyway. 377 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 4: Hearth is a newer one. 378 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 3: What we're talking about is kind of a large whiteboard 379 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 3: size digital frame that links with an app so that 380 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 3: you can display let's say, a shared Google calendar for 381 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 3: the family. It's formatted so you can maybe put like 382 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 3: the shopping list, you can put all kinds of like 383 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,439 Speaker 3: family dashboard. You can put your day schedule, you can 384 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 3: put your morning routine and have kids check it off 385 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 3: by like clicking it on the screen, et cetera. 386 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 4: I think they're really cool. 387 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 3: It's so funny because sometimes I feel like people assume 388 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 3: that since I like paper, I don't want new tools 389 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 3: or something, But I actually have my eye on the hearth. 390 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 4: And think it would be fun. 391 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 3: The only thing about it is that I do think 392 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 3: one thing that would make it more useful is if 393 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 3: everybody is using the same digital calendar type tools, and 394 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 3: my kids are not currently at the point where they're 395 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 3: doing that, nor do I really want them doing that yet. 396 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 3: I can see when we get more into like the 397 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 3: if everybody's in middle school in high school and my 398 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 3: kids are actually using Google Calendar so that they could 399 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 3: actually like interface with this regularly, I think it could 400 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 3: be really useful. 401 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:33,360 Speaker 4: I also think. 402 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 3: If you have a partner that's excited about this, that 403 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 3: might be a helpful way to help them see what 404 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 3: the family's mental load looks like on any given week, 405 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 3: maybe have some more participation in that Tetris calendar management. 406 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 3: I mean, this may be a little bit optimistic. I'd 407 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 3: love to hear if this has worked for some couples, 408 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 3: but hey, we use a whiteboard in my house basically 409 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,640 Speaker 3: for this purpose and it does work. But I can 410 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 3: see the esthetic of having it be digital, as well 411 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 3: as the ability for people to kind of add to 412 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 3: it and change things on it from outside of the home. 413 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 3: So I'm excited that this is a thing because it 414 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 3: actually brings a problem which I don't feel like was 415 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 3: talked about enough, just kind of like the day to 416 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 3: day management of family into like, hey, we need a 417 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 3: professional type tool for this, Like this is a real 418 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 3: challenge that everyone can participate in. 419 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 4: So I think in general it's great. 420 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean my family, we're still very low tech. 421 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 2: I create the family schedule in word more or less 422 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 2: and then just print it up like each day. It 423 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 2: says what each person is doing, and then I print 424 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 2: it up and we make changes on. 425 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: It with pen. It sits on the kitchen counter and 426 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: that works. It works. 427 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, but different people like different things. I'm not very 428 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 2: technologically advanced, So there you go. All right, So question 429 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 2: Sarah this one. I'll you can start on this one, 430 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 2: and then I'll tay, what do you imagine your retirement 431 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 2: will be like? And what do you want for those years? 432 00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 2: And I guess when do you think it will be? 433 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 2: Would be a follow up to that. 434 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,640 Speaker 3: I don't think that much about this because I do 435 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 3: feel like I envision my future more like ten years, 436 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 3: kind of the largest horizon that I think about regularly. 437 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 3: And I'm currently forty three, almost forty four, and I 438 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 3: do not think I will be retired at fifty four. 439 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 3: So I don't have a clear timeline, in part because 440 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 3: I guess there's there are a lot of unknowns here. 441 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 3: I don't know how my energy is going to be at, 442 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 3: you know, in my sixties. I don't know what it's 443 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 3: going to be like to be working and then not 444 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 3: have the child kind of care centric stuff. 445 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 4: And I know you still. 446 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 3: Are involved in your children's lives even when they're older, 447 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 3: but it's going to be a different level and different type. 448 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,400 Speaker 4: So I think it's a little bit hard to plan 449 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 4: for that. 450 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 3: I will say I do have like lovely visions of 451 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 3: having more time for travel and just my Josh and 452 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:55,199 Speaker 3: I having like really enjoying some time together, but it's 453 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 3: hard to know what role work will play in that. 454 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 4: I guess I'm. 455 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 3: Hopeful that my career will continue to eve and I'll 456 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 3: be doing like more interesting and different things. 457 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 4: It won't always stay the same clinically. 458 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 3: I mean, I think I'll always do some level of that, 459 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 3: but it's sort of the other piece that could go 460 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 3: in a lot of different directions, and I'm open to 461 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 3: like what happens. I don't have a very specific time frame, however, 462 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 3: I will say we still do save for retirement as 463 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 3: if a day will come when we will not be earning, 464 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 3: because it would be nice to be able to just 465 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 3: pursue work without worrying about how much is going to 466 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 3: be brought in or not brought in at a certain point. 467 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 3: And so I am not saying, oh, I'm not going 468 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 3: to retire so I just spend every penny I have, 469 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 3: because that would not be good. 470 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 2: Now there's a different you know, people talk about the 471 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,719 Speaker 2: fire movement, which is financial independence retire early, but to 472 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 2: be honest, financial independence and retiring early are two totally 473 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 2: different things, and lumping them to gather is based on 474 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 2: a mindset that work is something you don't. 475 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: Want to do. 476 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 2: And I think you know, Sarah and I are both 477 00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:00,080 Speaker 2: fortunate in that the vast majority of the aspect for 478 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,120 Speaker 2: our careers are things we actively do, want to do 479 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 2: and enjoy and have fully chosen and shaped in a 480 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 2: lot of ways to be what we want to be doing. 481 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 2: So I think pursuing financial independence is incredibly smart and 482 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 2: everyone should be doing that as much as possible. Retiring early, yeah, 483 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,199 Speaker 2: So the fire bloggers who are like, I retired at 484 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 2: age thirty, and I'm like, and you're writing books and 485 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 2: podcasting and blogging and having courses, which is exactly the 486 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:37,400 Speaker 2: work that we do. So you just changed careers with savings, 487 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 2: which we've evolved our careers with savings too. Maybe we 488 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 2: should start selling courses on that, Sarah. Anyway, what I'm 489 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 2: getting out to this, I don't envision myself retiring in 490 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 2: the sense that I write because I like to write, 491 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 2: and I wrote as a child, I've written as a student. 492 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 2: I would write whether I was getting paid for it, 493 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 2: I would write, you know whatever. It just is what 494 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 2: I do as part of my identity. So I don't 495 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 2: envision that changing until I, like, truly cannot do it anymore. Now, 496 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 2: maybe the various other forms of how I work could evolve, 497 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 2: you know, certainly when my kids aren't around. 498 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: I think having a little bit more. 499 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 2: Flexibility to go different places and things like that might 500 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 2: be fun. But I don't envision retirement is something incredibly 501 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 2: different than what I'm currently doing, because there's it's not 502 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 2: like a yeah, I don't know, I don't have a 503 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 2: target age. 504 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 3: No, And I'll just add that I am very far 505 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 3: from financial independence. I mean, I guess I would say, 506 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 3: let me caveat that. I guess if we had a 507 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 3: drastic change in lifestyle, we could be financially independent. But 508 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,959 Speaker 3: at the current lifestyle. We are far from that, and 509 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 3: there's trade offs there too, because there's experiences I want 510 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 3: to have with my kids that do cost money that 511 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 3: if I want to have them, I have to spend 512 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 3: that money, which means it's going to take longer to 513 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 3: get to that financial independence piece. So that balance is 514 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 3: always to pay attention to. But both sides are important, 515 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 3: absolutely all right. 516 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 2: So how do you handle kids needing different amounts of sleep? 517 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 2: And I guess that this could play out in lots 518 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 2: of different ways. You have two kids who are relatively 519 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 2: the same age, but like one of them is more 520 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 2: of a sleeper than the other. Maybe you've got a 521 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 2: night owl kid or or something. Or it could also 522 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 2: be that you have kids of very different ages. And 523 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 2: let's say you're dealing with, you know, an older kid, 524 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 2: like a school age kid, and you also have a baby, 525 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 2: and you're trying to like set a schedule around two 526 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 2: kids of different ages. So how does this work in life? 527 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 3: Well, I'm living this reality right now because I do 528 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 3: notice that tweens and kids who are approaching tweenhoods seem 529 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,919 Speaker 3: to have different patterns where there really are driven to 530 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 3: stay up later. 531 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 4: They don't quote get. 532 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,360 Speaker 3: Cranky like little kids do late, and then we're likely 533 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 3: to sleep in on weekends. And then overall for me, 534 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 3: I feel like need less fewer hours in general. And 535 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 3: then I have a six year old who absolutely it 536 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 3: does not do well when she stays up late, and 537 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 3: when she has a couple of nights in a row 538 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 3: of compromise sleep, you really do notice it kind of 539 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 3: behaviorally with the amount of patience she has. Yeah, so 540 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 3: I have been very specific about a very hard deadline 541 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 3: bedtime for her on every night that we can do it. 542 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 3: There are some nights where activities just make it almost impossible. 543 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 3: But if I can get the like five to six 544 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 3: nights a week where it's like we are starting to 545 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,439 Speaker 3: read at seven thirty so that she can go to 546 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 3: bed by eight to eight fifteen, I really have to 547 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 3: like set a timer and actually pay attention to that, 548 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 3: because again with the bigger kids, like they're off doing stuff, 549 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 3: they want help with homework, do whatever. But unfortunately, if 550 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 3: someone doesn't prioritize putting her to bed. 551 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 4: Like, we all pay for it multiple days later. 552 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 3: So that's kind of how I'm working on it, or 553 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 3: kind of how I've approached it. Do I always have 554 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 3: success in this No, but the weeks that it works, 555 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 3: it does feel better. 556 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, with having a huge spread of ages 557 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 2: for my kids, we just sort of accepted that Henry 558 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 2: probably has a different sleep profile than a lot of 559 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 2: four year olds would have, and fortunately it seems to 560 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 2: be okay. 561 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: Like he does not wake up at the crack. 562 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 2: Of dawn regardless of when he's gone to bed, So 563 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 2: if he's falling asleep around ten o'clock at night, which 564 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 2: is when the other kids are also going to sleep, 565 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 2: the good news is he doesn't really have to wake 566 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,159 Speaker 2: up until eight fifteen, eight twenty in the morning to 567 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 2: get to school at nine, and so it winds up 568 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 2: being okay like it actually because he doesn't get up 569 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 2: until then, he gets the ten hours of sleep or 570 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 2: whatever it is, with occasional naps in the afternoon. 571 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: But even then, he's never been. 572 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 2: Able to have like a dedicated nap in the crib 573 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 2: kind of time like post COVID. I mean, now that 574 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 2: we're back into things going on, just it's too much 575 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 2: going on in the household, and so he's probably had 576 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 2: a lot of naps in the car in his life, 577 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 2: but that's been the way it is, and I think 578 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 2: you have to acknowledge that kids also might have different 579 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 2: sleep needs than you'd want. 580 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:10,120 Speaker 1: Them to have. 581 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 2: And I always feel bad for people whose parents have 582 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 2: decided that because you are ex age, you will have 583 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 2: to go to bed at eight. Like we're talking kids 584 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 2: who are like ten or older, and it's like they're 585 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 2: sitting there, not falling asleep with the lights out. I mean, 586 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 2: I understand that parents want to have their own time, 587 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 2: but it's like, maybe we could just let them read 588 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 2: for a while, I don't know, and just check on 589 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 2: them in another thirty forty minutes. 590 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:37,479 Speaker 1: And I don't know. 591 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 2: People are who they are, and it's kind of hard 592 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 2: to force your sleep desires on somebody else. 593 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: So just something to keep in mind totally. 594 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 3: And yeah, when we put Genevieve to bed, she's clearly tired. 595 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 3: We're not dealing with that situation. And it never even 596 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 3: occurred to me not to let your kid read if 597 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 3: they wanted to stay up and read. So for us, 598 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 3: that's kind of like the default. I actually I want 599 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 3: them to do more of that than it's currently happening. 600 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 3: A lot of times, it's more like, oh, but there's 601 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 3: a duke game on, and then I worry about like 602 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 3: blue light and like keeping them up and whatever, and 603 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe I should just not stress too much. 604 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 3: The big kids actually do not seem terribly sleep deprived, 605 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 3: so that's good. 606 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think my older kids may be slightly 607 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 2: sleep deprive, but that's more that the school begins so 608 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 2: incredibly early, and then they really aren't tired at night either. 609 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 2: I mean, there really is their circadian rhythm thing with teens. 610 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 2: And the good news is our school district is switching 611 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 2: next year to later start times for high school, so 612 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 2: good for that. 613 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 4: That is exciting. 614 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: All right, So this quite well, I guess it's for 615 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: both of us here. 616 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 2: So this person writes that early mornings are important to 617 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 2: making my day's work, but as my kids are getting older, 618 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 2: they don't go to bed early anymore. So this is 619 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 2: kind of related to the earlier question. It seems like 620 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 2: they often want to chat or hang out or need 621 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 2: things in that post nine o'clock hour. It makes it 622 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 2: hard to just turn in. I realized I could just 623 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 2: close the door, but you know, again, we're talking with 624 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 2: teen kids. You realize they're not going to be there 625 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 2: that many more years. Sometimes you do want to be 626 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 2: available for them if they do want to chat with you, 627 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 2: any tips on older kids and later bedtimes and how 628 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 2: to balance being there for them but also trying to 629 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 2: get to bed at a decent time yourself. 630 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 3: I think I would take this directly from Laura Vandercam 631 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 3: and say three times a week. 632 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 4: Is a habit, meaning you do not have. 633 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 3: To have a routine that is exactly the same from 634 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 3: day to day. I know there is some sleep gurus 635 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 3: who kind of say you're supposed to have the same 636 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 3: bedtime and same week of time every day, but maybe 637 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 3: that's in like an idealized world. I think we have 638 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 3: to also adapt these things to like the worlds we 639 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 3: live in. So I get up really early to run 640 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 3: many days per week, but I don't want to go 641 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 3: to bed every single night at like nine pm nine thirty. 642 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 4: So there's usually going to be two, maybe three. 643 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 3: Nights a week that I'm up a little bit later, 644 00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 3: and usually I try to pick days where I'm more 645 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 3: flexible the next day. I think this might just have 646 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 3: to be about being like, some days can be for 647 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 3: you and some days can be more for them, and 648 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 3: there might be some nights that you're like, I'm going 649 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 3: to close the door and go to bed because I'm tired, 650 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 3: but like tomorrow, let's chat. Like it just doesn't have 651 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 3: to be all or nothing, So that would be that 652 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 3: would be my thought. 653 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, you might also think about having a short version 654 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 2: and a long version of your morning routine. And you know, 655 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 2: on the night where your kids are totally ignoring you 656 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 2: and you go to bed on time, you could do 657 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 2: the long version in the morning, but you could make 658 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 2: that decision the night before, right, Like you could decide 659 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 2: that you have enough sort of control and autonomy in 660 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 2: your life that you will decide the night before is 661 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 2: tomorrow a long version or a short version? 662 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: And that's a function of what time you go to 663 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: bed that night. 664 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 2: You know, I think that the kids themselves, regardless of 665 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 2: what we just said, like, they don't need to have 666 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 2: access to you all night long. I mean, they do 667 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 2: probably need to go to sleep too. So I know 668 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 2: in our household you said, I mean you said the 669 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 2: post nine o'clock hour, and that's not that late. Our 670 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 2: lights out time in our house is ten, And yes, 671 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 2: people often are wanting to chat between nine and ten, 672 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 2: but if lights out is ten and I go to 673 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 2: bed at ten, if you need what seven seven and 674 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 2: a half hours of sleep, you could be up five 675 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 2: to five thirty A guessing that's still early enough to 676 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 2: get a morning routine in for some people. 677 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 3: So you know, I happen to know this person. I 678 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 3: don't think that's quite early enough for this person. But yeah, 679 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 3: it doesn't mean you couldn't hang out till nine thirty 680 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 3: and get but five yeah, four forty five and get 681 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 3: like you know, over seven hours. 682 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. That's true. 683 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 2: So maybe sort of push that nine to nine thirty 684 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 2: is when we talk. Nine thirty to ten is more 685 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 2: when mommy needs to sleep, and you can also kind 686 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 2: of you know, round earlier, I guess is the idea. 687 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,239 Speaker 2: One of the things I often tell people with who 688 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 2: are trying to get out of their offices on time 689 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 2: is the problem is they're trying to leave and then 690 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 2: they go talk to everyone, and that's when people bring 691 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 2: stuff up like oh, yeah, we needed to talk about. 692 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: This, and then you're like trying to get out the door. 693 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 2: It's like, well, there's nothing you from going around and 694 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 2: talking to everyone at like two o'clock in the afternoon. 695 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 2: Right then, when people spring stuff on you or want 696 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 2: to have conversations you have space to do that before 697 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 2: five o'clock, so you might start like visiting your kid 698 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 2: at eight thirty and say like, hey, how's it going. 699 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 2: Maybe that's when they decide they want to start talking, 700 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 2: and you know, you can get some of it out 701 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 2: of the way a little bit earlier and move that 702 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 2: all earlier into the night. 703 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 4: Sounds good, all right. 704 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 3: Our last question today, and I thought this was such 705 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 3: a fun question, it is, what does the next five 706 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 3: years of Best of Both Worlds look like? 707 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 2: Oh? 708 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: My goodness, well, who knew? 709 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 2: And we I mean one of our previous episodes or 710 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 2: one that's running around this is we look at the 711 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 2: idea of beginnings at endings, and people don't ever think 712 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 2: about endings when they start stuff. And so it's certainly 713 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 2: like when we started Best of Both Worlds in twenty seventeen, 714 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 2: I don't know that we had any idea of what 715 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 2: the future would look like. 716 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: I mean, certainly we didn't. 717 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 2: Say like, we're going to try this for a year 718 00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 2: and see how it goes, or that we're going to 719 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 2: try it for ten years how it goes, or you know, 720 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 2: anything like that. Obviously, the universe continues, and there will 721 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 2: be a Tuesday morning where there's no best in both worlds. 722 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 1: But hopefully not for a while. 723 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 3: So I don't know. 724 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 2: We just planned to keep cranking these out and having 725 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:18,320 Speaker 2: fun chatting and talking about things that matter to our listeners, 726 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:23,800 Speaker 2: and technology and what people consume tends to evolve a lot. 727 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 2: I know that a lot of podcasts are having some 728 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 2: video component to them, which we have not been tempted 729 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 2: to do yet. But if that is what everyone does, 730 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 2: I suppose we'll have to look into it at some point. 731 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 3: I would then have to make over my closet recording studio. 732 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,360 Speaker 3: This is really not aesthetic at all. I mean, I 733 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 3: think one thing that has increased in our podcast recently 734 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 3: has been just the sense of community, and part of 735 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 3: that is growing the Patreon, but like we're having conversations 736 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 3: like with our listeners and that feels pretty magical. And 737 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 3: now we're even doing a live event together. I mean, 738 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,320 Speaker 3: Laura was there last year, so it was also together, 739 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 3: but this time we're officially doing it together. So I 740 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 3: don't know, I could see that aspect of it growing. 741 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 3: I mean, we were fantasizing like, hey, like this event's 742 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 3: gonna just blow up and then we can like do 743 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 3: a few events per year and like support women and 744 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 3: you know, help them get through the tougher years and 745 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 3: give them a space to be together. So I don't know, 746 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 3: I could see little like branch offs of this. I 747 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 3: hope the podcast itself continues, but yeah, who knows, like 748 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 3: what different formats could look like. 749 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:28,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe we'll be like a Netflix. 750 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 2: Show that's true with the home edit for life balance. 751 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 1: I don't know that would be something awesome. Well, so 752 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: I guess we should do Love of the Week. 753 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 3: Right, Sure, you're gonna have to go first, because you 754 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 3: just sprung that one on me. 755 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 2: Well, don't do it every week like we like three 756 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty of these episodes. 757 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 1: Why is this a surprise? True? 758 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,360 Speaker 4: True? Okay, but you're still going I'm. 759 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: Still going first. Oh my goodness. 760 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 2: It's kind of nice to be in a hotel and 761 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 2: not be putting anyone to bed. 762 00:35:58,280 --> 00:35:59,240 Speaker 1: I would say my Love. 763 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 2: Of the Week is a case having the night off 764 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 2: from bedtime. Bedtime can be sweet, bedtime can also feel 765 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 2: like it drags on forever sometimes and at a time 766 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 2: of day when many of us would like to be done. 767 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 2: But yeah, so there you go. 768 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 3: All right, I'm going to go on theme sort of 769 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 3: for that, And I will say using Strava or word 770 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 3: of mouth to find good running routes in other areas 771 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,319 Speaker 3: and specifically looking for that before you leave so you 772 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 3: kind of know where to go, because it can be 773 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,280 Speaker 3: daunting when you go somewhere and you're just kind of plunked. 774 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:32,919 Speaker 3: But if you have a target and then you can 775 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 3: kind of just put that in your maps app and 776 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 3: you won't get lost and you can run somewhere nice. 777 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, that is my love of the week. 778 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,879 Speaker 2: Yes Sarah did some good runs on the beach here 779 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 2: in Naples, and I at least got to walk to 780 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 2: the beach and enjoy. 781 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: That yesterday and it was fun. 782 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 2: Anyway, This has been the best of both worlds. We're 783 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 2: recording Live Together here in Naples. We will be back 784 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 2: next week with more on making work and life fit together. 785 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the 786 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:03,720 Speaker 3: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore shoe Box on Instagram, 787 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:04,239 Speaker 3: and you. 788 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 2: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This 789 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 2: has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join 790 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 2: us next time for more on making work and life 791 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 2: work together.