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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not supported by overweight animals trying to

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Speaker 1: climb onto furniture. Instead, it's supported by the generous donations

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Speaker 1: of our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon dot com slash

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Speaker 1: thinking sideways to learn more and thanks Thinking Sideways. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. You never know stories of things we simply

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Speaker 1: don't know the answer too. Hi there, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined us always

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Speaker 1: by Devin and Steve, and we're here this week to

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Speaker 1: talk about another unsolved mystery. Indeed, yeah, yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: a obviously one that's not been unsolved. It's almost twenty

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Speaker 1: years old. Um, it's about the disappearance of Sabrina Eisenberg.

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Speaker 1: Before you go any further, I'd like to give a

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Speaker 1: big shout out to Claressa who suggested this mystery. Thanks Clarissa,

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Speaker 1: and also probably a little a little warning. This involves

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Speaker 1: a kidnapping impossible, god knows what a five months old girl.

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Speaker 1: So if you're sensitive to that kind of thing, then

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Speaker 1: you know, you a trigger. For folks, you might want

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Speaker 1: to skip it, but you know, but we get on

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Speaker 1: the other hand, we're not sensitive at all, so we're

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Speaker 1: gonna go ahead and talk about it. So, Sabrina Eisenberg

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Speaker 1: was a five month actually not quite five months old

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Speaker 1: baby when she was one night, taken from her crib

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Speaker 1: by a person or persons unknown, and she hasn't been

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Speaker 1: seen since. Her parents believe she's still alive somewhere and

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Speaker 1: that she was stolen for sale to a childless couple

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Speaker 1: or maybe stolen by some baby crazy crazy person, which

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Speaker 1: does happen to people just because they want a kid.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of other people think she's dead. So

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Speaker 1: let's get into our mystery, which begins in Veldrico, Florida,

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Speaker 1: which is a suburb of Tampa. It's to the east

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Speaker 1: of Tampa. Steve and Marline Eisenberg had three kids, William

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Speaker 1: who was eight, Monica four, and Sabrina, who was just

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Speaker 1: short of five months old. As I said, and they

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Speaker 1: also had a dog named Brownie. It was very lazy

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Speaker 1: about a job. Yeah, I saw her, and I've seen

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Speaker 1: the dogs brown brown Yeah, so that was that was Brownie.

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Speaker 1: So Marlene was woking up the morning of November by

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Speaker 1: noise coming out of the living room. She said her

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Speaker 1: fish tank filter was apparently making a lot of noise.

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Speaker 1: So she got up and walked out to check it,

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Speaker 1: and she was fiddling with it, and she suddenly noticed

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Speaker 1: that she could see in their laundry room to the

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Speaker 1: open door, and from there, through there she could see

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Speaker 1: the door that led to the garage, and that door

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Speaker 1: was open, and the garage was open. The garage door

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Speaker 1: was open too, So she suddenly sussed out that it

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Speaker 1: looked like maybe they had left their garage door opened.

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Speaker 1: But then the door between the garage and the house

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Speaker 1: had been left up unlocked, and somebody had all the

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Speaker 1: doors were open, yeah, and then somebody had entered the house.

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Speaker 1: Have you guys, you guys have seen the footage of

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Speaker 1: the house. Yeah, it is. It is a straight line

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Speaker 1: from their hallway through those doors and out the garage.

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Speaker 1: You can see right out. So she suddenly realized that, hey,

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Speaker 1: it looks like somebody made have walked into the house

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Speaker 1: some summing sometime in the dark of night. That kind

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Speaker 1: of freaked her out, yeah, understandably. She she ran to

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Speaker 1: Sabrina's bedroom and checked her crib and sure enough it

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Speaker 1: was empty. And now to clarify, Sabrina's bedroom was at

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Speaker 1: the first bedroom. It was one of the first rooms

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Speaker 1: that you would have come to from the garage and

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Speaker 1: the laundry room. Yeah so, but it was the first

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Speaker 1: It was the first bedroom that you would come to.

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Speaker 1: I went to the impression it was the first bedroom.

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Speaker 1: I've never actually seen who a map of who slept

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Speaker 1: in which room, but I have to presume I agree

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Speaker 1: with Joey. Yeah, so she wouldn't have had whoever it

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Speaker 1: came in and stole Sabrina wouldn't have had to go

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Speaker 1: by everybody's bedroom. Well, you know, if you're stealthy and nothing,

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Speaker 1: people just sound asleep. It's not that I'm just trying

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Speaker 1: to like lay the foundation mentally out. Marlene says she screamed,

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Speaker 1: which woke Steve up. Steve comes out of the bedroom.

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Speaker 1: He also sees the baby is gone. Marlene gets on

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Speaker 1: the horn calls one at six forty two am, and

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Speaker 1: I guess he was a little incoherent. Um, but I

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Speaker 1: have surprisingly yeah, I've not been able to find much

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Speaker 1: of that the the actual call on the internet. A

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Speaker 1: few snippets here and there they found on TV news

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Speaker 1: programs included small snippets, and that's all I found. Um. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: she hands the phone to Steve and she got another

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Speaker 1: line to call her mother and then I'm on One

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Speaker 1: operator asked Steve, among other things, if he searched the

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Speaker 1: house for Sabrina, and Steve admitted that he hadn't, so

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Speaker 1: he told William to go search the house. That's the

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Speaker 1: eight year old son, that is he, that is the son. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And of course William did not find Sabrina anywhere, and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that the house was thoroughly searched again after

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Speaker 1: the police got there too. You know, the thing with

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Speaker 1: Steve is a barely being a Steve, I can interpret him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but no, the thing is he has he has a

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Speaker 1: different way of phrasing, his setting his and and putting things.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the things that has

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Speaker 1: not served him well because when the operator asked him,

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Speaker 1: have you searched the house? He says, he says no,

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Speaker 1: and then you can hear him talking to him, he says,

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Speaker 1: search the house. I think it's something like turnover every

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Speaker 1: pillow in case she got out of her crib, which

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Speaker 1: there is no possible way she could have done. And

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Speaker 1: people are like, why would you say that it really is,

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Speaker 1: except I get it because I know people who just

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Speaker 1: they just voice do this even though I know it

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Speaker 1: can't possibly have happened, but maybe maybe, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: he was a little exasperated with a nine on one operator.

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Speaker 1: You know, maybe maybe I got as Burger should be

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Speaker 1: honest with you. Here's something I will say is that

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Speaker 1: you know, somebody who's raised two children, right, and this

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Speaker 1: is his third, he's probably in kind of a panic.

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Speaker 1: And it's totally reasonable, reasonable to believe that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: within a couple of months of five months, kids are

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Speaker 1: escaping from their crib, no problem, and so it's totally

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Speaker 1: reasonable to assume that he was like, well, maybe she

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Speaker 1: figured it out. I don't know, maybe she figured out.

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Speaker 1: Maybe he's remembering his other kids were total escape artists.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, it's just, yeah, he's he's just he's

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Speaker 1: And by the way, I don't I don't want to

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Speaker 1: sound like I was bashing when I said he sounds

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Speaker 1: like he has aspergers. He's just he's very mechanical in

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Speaker 1: the way that he's talks and he acts. He's very

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Speaker 1: light on the emotional side. And that's why it sounded

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Speaker 1: so weird. But you're right, he could have thought it

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Speaker 1: that way, or he could have thought there's no freaking way,

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Speaker 1: But I'm just gonna do this to satisfy this woman

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Speaker 1: on the phone. Should get the damn cops here. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that might have been it. But yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: by that time they already had cops on the way anyhow. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they were they were sure they were rude. Yeah. Uh.

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Speaker 1: After his his call and he went next door because

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Speaker 1: his neighbor, Scott Middleton, was a former Tampa police officer,

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Speaker 1: and so he thought, for some reason or another at

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Speaker 1: midletoid maybe should come over and look at the crime

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Speaker 1: scene or for help, or maybe you just don't get

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Speaker 1: good advice, remember whatever. And Medison said there was something

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Speaker 1: odd about the Eisenberg's. He said, I quote, there was

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Speaker 1: absolutely no emotion with Steve and marleyn like nothing had happened.

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Speaker 1: They weren't broken up, no tears being shed unquote. So

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Speaker 1: obviously he thought there was something hinky going on here.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that's contrary and other things I've seen,

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Speaker 1: but okay, yeah, yeah, well yeah, but I do think

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Speaker 1: that Steve, even even on their TV appearance to day of,

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Speaker 1: he was pretty pretty emotionless. But that you know, again,

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Speaker 1: you know, people react in different ways. Thank you, and frankly,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're not required to show an a particular

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Speaker 1: emotion or not. It's not you know, it's not as

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Speaker 1: if grief requires a specific response. There is no specified

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Speaker 1: response to panic and greek. I know. Also they've come

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Speaker 1: under some fire, which I think we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about in a little bit that they like, you know,

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Speaker 1: in months after, like we're seen smiling and people are like,

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Speaker 1: obviously they killed Actually that happened the day of the

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Speaker 1: day of Yeah, yeah, totally, yeah, sorry, my timelines are

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Speaker 1: a little off, but yeah, I don't know if people.

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Speaker 1: People do have their own strange reactions. There's there's an

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Speaker 1: amazing amount of pressure for these people. And I don't

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Speaker 1: mean public pressure. I just mean emotional pressure. And I

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Speaker 1: think that they react in a way that most people don't.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think that that's indicative of guilt. But

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Speaker 1: I I'm already getting head I apologize. Yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean it could it could mean, it could go either way. Really, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it may be guilty of sin and maybe not. We'll

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Speaker 1: find out, alright. So so they go they go talk

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Speaker 1: to the neighbor Middleton. Yeah, and so there this whole thing,

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Speaker 1: the the emotion thing, and everything was kind of the

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Speaker 1: beginning of their troubles that they had with the law.

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Speaker 1: When the kind of Shaff's deputy started showing up, the

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Speaker 1: press was right behind them. They started searching the neighborhood

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Speaker 1: along with the house, and they started questioning Stephen marleying. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And in cases like this, of course, usually the parents

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Speaker 1: of the culprits sadly, yeah yeah, and so naturally the cops,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're suspicious from the very beginning. One thing

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Speaker 1: that struck the cops about the about their home was

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Speaker 1: just how chaotic and messy it was, which to them

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Speaker 1: signified maybe it neglect. And I'm not so sure. I mean,

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Speaker 1: my house is kind of messy too. So, and you

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Speaker 1: don't have two children that are under the age of

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Speaker 1: ten and a child that is only five months old.

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Speaker 1: You also didn't just ask an eight year old to

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Speaker 1: literally turn over every single it might have been amazingly efficient.

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Speaker 1: Eight year old usually are pretty good at tearing things

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Speaker 1: a part, Yeah, well, young William probably actually had a

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Speaker 1: good time. Yeah yeah. And another the problem the investigator

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Speaker 1: has had with this these two is that Marlene told

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Speaker 1: the first chair of Stepantes who ride on the scene,

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Speaker 1: that she had been woken up by the fish tank.

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Speaker 1: Remember I mentioned that noisy filter, which if you ever

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Speaker 1: had a fish tank filter that was going south there

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Speaker 1: freaking yeah, I've never had a fish tank, but I'll

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Speaker 1: take your word for it. I'll get you one. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: thank you. And then but then a few hours later

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Speaker 1: she told another investor get if she'd been woken up

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Speaker 1: by the television, which apparently had some sort of wake

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Speaker 1: up function. Oh, I've had those. Yeah. Yeah, And so

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Speaker 1: that obviously raised a red flag for the police, but

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Speaker 1: you know, there wasn't enough to run him downtown quite yet.

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Speaker 1: They did suggest that they go on television and plead

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Speaker 1: for Sabrina's kidnappers to return her, and they did videotape

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Speaker 1: something that aired I think that afternoon or evening, and

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Speaker 1: I've seen that I've seen that tape of Yeah, yeah, hey, guys,

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Speaker 1: have any opinions on the tape? What do you want

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Speaker 1: to talk about that later in theories so we can

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Speaker 1: talk about it now. Yeah, what were your thoughts, Stevin? Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't don't. I feel like we should a little

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Speaker 1: bit describe it, right, Okay, So it is all of

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Speaker 1: the news cameras are outside of the house, and a

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Speaker 1: cop walks out and there's a police car backed into

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Speaker 1: the drive unmarked police car backed into the driveway, and

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Speaker 1: the cop walks over the driver's side and gets in

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Speaker 1: rather stone face doesn't doesn't seem to have a whole

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Speaker 1: lot of emotion, and Steve and Marlene follow behind, and

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Speaker 1: they split so that one goes to one side and

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Speaker 1: one goes to the other for the passengers door. And

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Speaker 1: just as they're starting to split, they both simultaneously break

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Speaker 1: into a rather large smile. Yeah, that's that's the whole scene,

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Speaker 1: and then get into the car at each other, at

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Speaker 1: each other and possibly somebody else, because you know, the

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Speaker 1: situation that's going on. Yeah, and so I mean, actually

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Speaker 1: that was the background of the situation. What happened they

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Speaker 1: say happened proceeding the smile, I guess, well. I think

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Speaker 1: he was saying that that one of the detectives cracked

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Speaker 1: a joke or something like that, which is kind of

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Speaker 1: under I mean, yeah, the guy cuts a joke, it

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Speaker 1: breaks a joke. It's kind of understandable in a situation

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Speaker 1: like that, which is nothing but stress, because that's but

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Speaker 1: that's not there's the other. There's more than one time

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Speaker 1: where they were on camera with the smile, and you

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Speaker 1: were talking about the other the other one, right, the

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Speaker 1: other one where they went on TV that I haven't

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Speaker 1: seen anything to plead for the kidnapper or whoever it

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Speaker 1: was taken Sabena to to bring back and gotta and

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Speaker 1: and Steve is sitting there just stone faced the whole time,

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Speaker 1: as he typically is. Yeah, as he usually kind of is,

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Speaker 1: and she is being kind of tearful. To me, there

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Speaker 1: was something about her grief that seemed a little off.

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Speaker 1: Susan Shepherd is that is that what you're referencing now? Okay, now,

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Speaker 1: not Susan Shepherd. Susan Shepherd was the woman who three

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Speaker 1: years prior had made a claim that someone had stolen

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Speaker 1: car with their children. I thought that was Susan Smith

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Speaker 1: or Susan Smith, thank you. I always do that. I

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Speaker 1: don't know why I always want to call her Shepherd.

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Speaker 1: But she's the one who then was eventually discovered to

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Speaker 1: have killed her children herself. Yeah, and that that probably

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Speaker 1: colored a lot of people's thinking in this case. Well,

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Speaker 1: if you watched the two videos side by side, they're

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Speaker 1: very similar. It's scary. I mean, it's just grief. Again,

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Speaker 1: it's grief, but if they're very similar. Yeah, and and

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Speaker 1: Marlene's Marlene's acting I didn't think was really up to

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Speaker 1: She didn't strike me as entirely convincing. Oh and there's

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Speaker 1: another thing that happened on the on the first day,

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Speaker 1: the morning of thinking. The police of course didn't really

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Speaker 1: think it was a kidnapper at all, but you know,

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Speaker 1: it could have been possibly, So they asked permission to

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Speaker 1: put a tap on there from their home phone in

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Speaker 1: case the kidnapp called in with ransom demands. Um, and

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Speaker 1: so before so we've actually were sticking with the original

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Speaker 1: time when we jumped ahead with the bouncing around the

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Speaker 1: timeline of that day. These are all things that happened

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Speaker 1: on the David. This is the request to put the

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Speaker 1: tap on the phone happened earlier in the day before.

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Speaker 1: I think that even they left the house and there

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Speaker 1: was a little smile that was on like almost right away. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And Steve did get their permission to do that, but

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Speaker 1: he knew there was a tap on the phone. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: either that or he gave him permission and promptly forgot

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Speaker 1: about it. I don't know, but he knew there was

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Speaker 1: a tap on the phone. And another thing that struck

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Speaker 1: the cops as odd was that the Issenberg's had left

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Speaker 1: their garage door opened overnight, although apparently it's a mistake

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Speaker 1: they had made before court. Apparently, Yeah, they were is

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Speaker 1: for leaving their doors open. Yeah, and they also had kids. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they left. Yeah, they left the door from the

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Speaker 1: garage to the house unlocked, which seems like he would love.

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Speaker 1: I would. I would if I lived there, I would.

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Speaker 1: Even if I didn't close the garage door, I would.

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Speaker 1: I would lock that door. But yeah, kids, kids coming

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Speaker 1: in out of places. That's why years ago, and like

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Speaker 1: what I understand to have been a relatively safe suburb,

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Speaker 1: pretty quiet suburb of Tampa. You know, maybe it wasn't

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Speaker 1: that big of a deal. Yeah, but growing up, we all,

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Speaker 1: like we had doors that were left unlocked, not at

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Speaker 1: night usually, but but you know, I mean it was

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Speaker 1: it was a lucky break for the intruder anyway, that's

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Speaker 1: one way to look at it. Certainly the way the

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Speaker 1: cops saw it. The intruders somehow made his way into

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Speaker 1: the house and found Seberina and got away without waking

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Speaker 1: anybody up, although that would probably wouldn't be that hard.

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Speaker 1: One thing that I don't see mentioned in your stuff.

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Speaker 1: Here is the fact that people believe that she was

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Speaker 1: taken and not waking up because of the fact that

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Speaker 1: her blanket was gone. It's her what is the crib blanket?

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Speaker 1: Is that what it's called? Yeah, And because it's leave

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Speaker 1: that she was wrapped up in that to keep her

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Speaker 1: warm and swaddled and quiet, and so she had so

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Speaker 1: she probably didn't wake up. But even if she had

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Speaker 1: woken up, you know, the parents might not have woken

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Speaker 1: up right away. Yeah, I am contrary to my belief.

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Speaker 1: Apparently babies don't instantly wake up in a scream, so

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Speaker 1: it's entirely possible. Well, even when they do, sometimes it

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Speaker 1: takes a while if you build up. Yeah. Well, or

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Speaker 1: if you you know, have been listening to a baby

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Speaker 1: cry at night, if you're you know, sleep training them.

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Speaker 1: For instance, five months is about when people start sleep

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Speaker 1: training babies. That one they just you let them cry

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Speaker 1: it out. Yeah, you know, they wake up and they cry,

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Speaker 1: let him cry for son, Yeah, you'll let him go, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and usually they'll that's how they learned how to sell,

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Speaker 1: soothe and put themselves back to sleep at some point, So,

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Speaker 1: I mean they may have just been used to it,

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Speaker 1: although you would assume that you could tell that it

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Speaker 1: was moving. Maybe not that baby is throwing her voice.

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Speaker 1: It's the weirdest thing. Yeah, I know. Further and further away,

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Speaker 1: by the way, I want to I want to point

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Speaker 1: out something that I find very funny in a lot

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Speaker 1: of those spots where you see the story listed is

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Speaker 1: everybody says, Sabrina and her crip blanket are missing, and

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Speaker 1: yet nobody has put out an APB on that crib blanket.

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Speaker 1: Nobody is looking for the crib and her. It just

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Speaker 1: made out. It's such a funny way when it's written.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that, Yeah, the blanket is written, and they would

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Speaker 1: like it back. Yeah, even if you want to keep

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Speaker 1: the baby, we want the blanket back. We might have

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Speaker 1: pictures of the blanket. Yeah, we missed that blanket, uh,

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Speaker 1: preferably with the baby in it. Yeah. Probably. But of

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Speaker 1: course it's the odd thing that that really was raised.

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Speaker 1: Yet another big flag as the dog didn't bark. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: not a big flag to me. Yeah, well, it depends

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Speaker 1: on who you talk to. And the family said that

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Speaker 1: that Brownie was a real quiet dog and then barket

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Speaker 1: people ever, But then again, their neighbor Scott Middleton, remember

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Speaker 1: him the next cop. He said that Brownie barked all

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Speaker 1: the time and barked at everybody. The thing is is

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Speaker 1: that I watched a piece of footage where the camera

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Speaker 1: crew just walked in the house and Brownie just like, Hi,

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Speaker 1: how you doing? How you doing? You get pat me?

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Speaker 1: You know, typical dumbhouse dogs behavior. Not a peep came out.

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Speaker 1: So it could be, Um, we'll talk about in theories too,

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Speaker 1: maybe the kidnapper was somebody that Brownie knew. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean told the strangers one thing, Brownie who did it? Y?

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Speaker 1: Yeah it was the X cop who did it? Dog? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I like the ex cop theory. Yeah. Um, so the

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Speaker 1: Eisenberg's I should I should have mentioned some other physical

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Speaker 1: evidence to By the way, I forgot about this. There

341
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Speaker 1: was there was a kind of a footprint, a handprint

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Speaker 1: similar partial handprint was over. There was there was some fingerprints.

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Speaker 1: They had a slide back door and then they had

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Speaker 1: some fingerprints on it, and then the crib itself. There

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Speaker 1: was there was one stray blonde hair, and everybody in

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Speaker 1: the family had dark hair, although that could be explained

347
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Speaker 1: maybe if they just had a visitor with blonde hair

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Speaker 1: to come by visit the baby. But they had that,

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Speaker 1: and then there was apparently a footprint on what's that

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Speaker 1: that little ruffled thing that goes around the base of

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Speaker 1: the crib, that blanket thinking when hangs down crib skirt. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that sounds good enough. Yeah, there was a footprint on that,

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Speaker 1: although it's hard to see, I get a footprint on that, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you know, okay, but yeah, that was that was a

355
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Speaker 1: physical evidence. That's weird. Yeah, that's weird. That's why why

356
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,280
Speaker 1: they would like come in through the front, through the

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Speaker 1: garage and then exit through the slider in the back,

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Speaker 1: and then apparently sent ducks followed the scent out to

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Speaker 1: the back fence. So maybe somebody came into the front.

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Speaker 1: You would think they come in from the front and

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Speaker 1: then exit by the front. But maybe maybe if it

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Speaker 1: was a sort of a team effort, you know, maybe

363
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Speaker 1: somebody took Sabrina, carried her out to the back fence

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Speaker 1: and handed her over the fence. That doesn't make any sense, Joe, Well,

365
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,480
Speaker 1: climbing over a fence with a baby, that makes it

366
00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:00,720
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense, less sense that that's an instant

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Speaker 1: way to wake up a baby. Used to jostle them

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Speaker 1: over a fence. Yeah, but I also don't was the

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Speaker 1: skirt like hanging down on the ground. Maybe maybe it

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Speaker 1: kind of partially detached and it was sort of laying

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Speaker 1: on the ground probably the only way that I could

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Speaker 1: imagine a footprint getting on there. Yeah, that's that's that

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00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 1: kind of struck me as funny too. But anyway, it

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Speaker 1: was an evidence that they could ever usefully use. None

375
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,400
Speaker 1: of it was um And you know it's another piece

376
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,840
Speaker 1: of evidence which again doesn't really give us much, is

377
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,159
Speaker 1: that that's one of the next door neighbors was out

378
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Speaker 1: walking his dog about one am and the dog barked

379
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,320
Speaker 1: and then he heard the sound of a baby crying

380
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:40,800
Speaker 1: in the woods off behind their houses. Yeah, red herring

381
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,159
Speaker 1: right there. I'm going to call that. Yeah, yeah, I

382
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Speaker 1: think so. So it was just it was probably somebody

383
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Speaker 1: with us just blame the baby app on their iPhone. Yeah,

384
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,080
Speaker 1: but no, I mean, you know, there's there's other people

385
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Speaker 1: who have babies, So it's not well, it doesn't really glad,

386
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 1: it doesn't really tell say anything. Used was as far

387
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,280
Speaker 1: as solving our mystery here there, so but that's it.

388
00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:05,800
Speaker 1: I just didn't want to leave out all those little

389
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,760
Speaker 1: coaching details. Oh, well, you see him battered around enough.

390
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,440
Speaker 1: Back to our investigation, the Eisenbergs were cooperative and they

391
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,080
Speaker 1: both took light detector tests and that I think that

392
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:19,600
Speaker 1: very day. Uh, Stephen Marlane claimed the tests were inconclusive,

393
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:24,000
Speaker 1: which happens quite often anyway, fairly regularly. Yeah, the polygraphs

394
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 1: are not a percent, but the Sheriff's department leaked information

395
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,119
Speaker 1: that some of Marline's answers were deceptives. That's about it.

396
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,680
Speaker 1: That's the name. Other than that, you know they've been

397
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,919
Speaker 1: there have been subsequent lye detector tests that you know.

398
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,679
Speaker 1: The Sheriff's department won't release the results. But the Eisenberg's

399
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 1: claimed they passed, but the Shriff's department is not saying anything.

400
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:46,719
Speaker 1: Apparently they were a day were in an unincorporated part

401
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:48,440
Speaker 1: of the captain in part of the county that didn't

402
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,800
Speaker 1: have its own police force as the Sheriff's. By the way,

403
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 1: if you're wondering this anyway, Steve's brother, as it happens,

404
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 1: his name was Dave. He's a lawyer, and he advised

405
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,679
Speaker 1: them to get a lawyer. From the start. They waited

406
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,399
Speaker 1: two days before they hired one, a guy named Barry Cohen,

407
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,879
Speaker 1: and you'll find him on the internet all over the internet.

408
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they never appear without Barry Cohen. Oh yeah.

409
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,119
Speaker 1: And he's one of those guys too, and he's uh,

410
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,719
Speaker 1: you know, good at publicizing himself a little bit. I think, Well,

411
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 1: all of the videos that I found that one of

412
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 1: any substance about this case, we're on his YouTube channel. Yeah,

413
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:30,440
Speaker 1: so that tells you something. Yeah yeah, yeah, but he's

414
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 1: got some useful videos out there. If you do do

415
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 1: a Google on Barry co and Eisenberg and then just

416
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,960
Speaker 1: mine his YouTube's channel, Yeah, you'll find all kinds of

417
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 1: good stuff out there. On the advice of Barry co

418
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,439
Speaker 1: and the eisenberg stopped cooperating with the investigation. And one

419
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 1: of the things that that the Eisenberg's has said all

420
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,439
Speaker 1: along is that the police never did anything but look

421
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,119
Speaker 1: for a body and try to pin the crime on

422
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 1: Stephen Marlane. Yeah, and they think that the Eisenberg's think

423
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Speaker 1: that the police never really seriously considered the possibility that

424
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 1: somebody stole Sabrina. And that's one of the agrievances against him.

425
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you that, I think I know why

426
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 1: that is. Yeah, why if you ever look at early

427
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,400
Speaker 1: news footage or later foot news footage. This we're gonna

428
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,919
Speaker 1: look back at the case. It's always divers in ponds

429
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:22,119
Speaker 1: and guys going in the roadside ditches, because that's what

430
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 1: makes footage, not cops walking through yards. Yeah, now they were.

431
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,560
Speaker 1: They were going around like looking at going door to

432
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,120
Speaker 1: door and searching yards. And as you said, there were

433
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 1: these all these rows of divers going into these ponds

434
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,120
Speaker 1: side by side, so they could totally cover and cover

435
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,199
Speaker 1: the bottom of the pond. You gotta think of the

436
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 1: size of a baby. They're rather small. In five months,

437
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 1: it's going to be a little kid. It would be

438
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 1: easy for one person swimming around in a murky environment

439
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 1: to miss. Yeah, so they did do a massive search. Um,

440
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,400
Speaker 1: the police search, I understand, encompassed about a five mile

441
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 1: radius around the house and and that's everything. And plus

442
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 1: Steve was a local real estate agent. I don't know

443
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 1: if I've mentioned that. Yeah, I'm sorry that that's what

444
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:09,199
Speaker 1: he was doing for a living at the time. And

445
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 1: apparently he had just recently taken part in the sale

446
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 1: of the house. And I heard that the police went

447
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,160
Speaker 1: to that place and dug up the entire yard. Well,

448
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 1: that's that would lead you to believe that they were there.

449
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,360
Speaker 1: They were pretty sure you would killed your child. Yeah,

450
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: thank you. Yeah, I would be pissed if that was

451
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: the house tonight. I know, I know that. You know,

452
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 1: they probably just slapped a little warrant on him and

453
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 1: just said, you know, hey, if you don't need to

454
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: thank us now, you're you're pretty just really escaped the

455
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 1: whole thing. You've started the process for you unturned. Yeah.

456
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,959
Speaker 1: But but contrary to what the Isenbergs said, the police

457
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 1: did do more than look for a body, and they

458
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 1: followed upon thousands of leads, which were mostly sightings of Sabrina,

459
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: which all turned out to be fault. But the case

460
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: was getting Yeah, I was getting national attention, and her

461
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: picture was all over the place, and you know, his

462
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 1: face at babies tend to not be distinctive, and they

463
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 1: tend to all look alike. Yeah, and so I'm not

464
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 1: surprised that lots of people saw Sabrina. I mean, Sabrina,

465
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: what what was you unique about her? She had big,

466
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 1: dark eyes and dark and kind of a mop of

467
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 1: dark hair. Yeah, so she was that was distinctive about her.

468
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: So but still, I'm sure in America at that time,

469
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 1: there were still plenty of babies and thousands of babies

470
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 1: who looked generally like that. Yeah. And it's also not

471
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: so hard that to, you know, kind of cover a

472
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,479
Speaker 1: baby up. Right, Nobody is going to be like, oh,

473
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: why do you have your baby all wrapped up like that? Right,

474
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: it's not that hard to excuse me, excuse me, ma'am.

475
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: Let me see your baby's face. Yeah, you could diet,

476
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 1: you can, you can bleach your hair, I mean, little

477
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: hats are fine. Yeah, or she looks like a baby.

478
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 1: I don't know, there's nothing big and distinct about her. Yeah.

479
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,680
Speaker 1: But the most famous sitting was, of course, Puloma Unknown. Yeah.

480
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys want to talk about

481
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: Paloma Unknown. The basics, which real real quick basics. Uh,

482
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 1: she's kind of a little mystery in her on her own.

483
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: She was apparently brought across the West Mexico border by

484
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: an unnamed teenager who gave her to a woman named

485
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: Molly Garza, who didn't know what to do with her,

486
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: so she gave her to a nurse that she knew,

487
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: and the nurse gave Paloma Unknown to her sister, who

488
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 1: lived in Pontiac Illinois, where I don't know if she

489
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 1: might still live there today. Nobody knows who she is

490
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: or where she's from. The mother. The mother just handed

491
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: the kid over to Molly, and there's no birth certificate.

492
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 1: They can be tracked out. Yeah, not at all. But

493
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 1: she kind of I'm sure you've seen pictures of her.

494
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: She kind of looks like Sabrina. I wouldn't say identical,

495
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 1: but she kind of looks like her, about the same

496
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: age and everything. And so eventually somebody put two and

497
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 1: two together and they suggested they run a DNA test,

498
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: and the DNA test came back negative, so Paloma is

499
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: still unknown. So this is a good point to bring

500
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: something up about the Eisenbergs, which is either their lawyer

501
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: is a good publicist or they've got somebody else working

502
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 1: with them, because it's about this time that they went

503
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: on the Horaldo Show. They went on all and every time,

504
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 1: well like they went on around this time, and they

505
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 1: because apparently the process of identifying this child wasn't going

506
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 1: as fast as they wanted it, and they used their

507
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 1: publicity as a tool to speed that process up, which

508
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: it worked. But they've done this several times for several

509
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: possible leads, and so that's another thing that I know

510
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: is kind of a black eye on their their innocence

511
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: because of the fact that people like, why do you

512
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 1: keep doing that? And then never mind that it's years

513
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: later and they're on TV and they're just stone faced.

514
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: But I don't know who's telling them to do who

515
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: is telling them to do these things, But it doesn't

516
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: seem like it was a good idea, staying out of

517
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: the public eye as much as possible personally, as most

518
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: parents of missing children do. Yeah, And the other another

519
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: thing that that somebody set up a fund for like

520
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 1: you know, find Sabrina or whatever. And apparently I heard

521
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: a story that they had used some of the funds

522
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: from that to retire some credit card debt. Have you

523
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: not heard that story? Vaguely? Remember that I seen a

524
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: few news articles, and I'm gonna I'm gonna stress that

525
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 1: right here that I've seen it in a few places.

526
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: But this is suppressed, So I don't know that it's

527
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: absolutely true. It might not be. Well, you know, the

528
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,120
Speaker 1: stupid thing about that is that maybe it's possible that

529
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: that is debt that they incur searching for their daughters

530
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: and pay for their card now it's it's very true. Yeah,

531
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: and so that is that's a possibility. So okay, so Paloma, no,

532
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: not Sabrina. It turns out not to be so disappointment.

533
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 1: So so did I mentioned the police were kind of

534
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: convinced that Stephen Marline were had murdered her or done

535
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: something school they were involved something sulled. But yeah, yeah, yeah,

536
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: but they still couldn't find a look at evidence, and

537
00:27:57,960 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: so well, I actually I shouldn't say that they couldn't

538
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 1: find much in the way of evidence. Yeah, nothing, nothing

539
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 1: that you could hang them with. About two months after

540
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: Sabrino disappeared, a federal grand jury was convened to look

541
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: into the case, and the Eisenbergs were summoned, but on

542
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: the advice of Council that's Barry Cohen, they refused and

543
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: they pled the Fifth Amendment for our foreign listeners. And

544
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: you probably know this anyway, but the Fifth Amendment to

545
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: the U. S Constitution guarantees your right not to be

546
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,439
Speaker 1: forced to testify against yourself. So when you plead the Fifth,

547
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 1: essentially you're saying you're refusing to testify because if you

548
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: did testify, you would incriminate yourself. You might Yeah, you

549
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: might incriminate yourself. Yeah, it's not would, it's might, Yeah, exactly,

550
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: and so that's your right. And but it's not. It

551
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: doesn't look good. It's bad optics. Yeah, but you know,

552
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: I mean actually, but seriously, you know, I think any

553
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: good defense layer would tell his clients in their position,

554
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: since the police were really Jones and form, I think

555
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: any good defense to Yeah, I would totally tell him.

556
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: I was waiting because that's exactly where I was going

557
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: to go. Is it if they have brought a case

558
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: against them like this, they are obviously digging for something? Oh?

559
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: Absolutely so yeah, so that's why. So yeah, I say,

560
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: I'm not holding that against them at all. But to

561
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: some people, once again, bad optics. Yeah, a police frustrated

562
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: their investigation, got a warrant and because they couldn't prove

563
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: anything otherwise, let's do something else. Yeah, there was there

564
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: was even some there was some questionable behavior in the

565
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 1: evidence they used to get their warrants that you know, all,

566
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:29,959
Speaker 1: I guess their hearts win the right place. And so

567
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: they planted bugs in their kitchen and bedroom in their house. Yeah.

568
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: They listening on them for almost three months from seven

569
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 1: am to midnight every day and I heard they recorded

570
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: as many as twenty six hundred separate conversations, uh in

571
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: three months in a house with two adults and two children.

572
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: That that sounds like a small number. Yeah, well, I mean,

573
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: you know, you never know. Probably a lot of them

574
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: were like you know, in the rooms other than the kitchen,

575
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: in the bedroom or out in the yard or god

576
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: knows where. Yeah, I've heard a lot of stuff about these. Yeah. Yeah,

577
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: we'll talk about this. This is not a shining moment

578
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: for the police, is not apparently the something in their

579
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: execution kind of that kind of it was kind of

580
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: a big fail. But we'll talk about that later, not

581
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: too much, but soon. Yeah, they're trying to they're trying

582
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: to build their case. So in May, this is why

583
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: the year and a half later they weren't doing so

584
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: well financially. I guess the police were still yeah, yeah,

585
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: and they I guess the police were still busily trying

586
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,959
Speaker 1: to transcribe those tapes, because obviously the tapes were like

587
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,959
Speaker 1: late ninety seven and early and so here it is

588
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: like kind of early in the mid nine they still haven't.

589
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: It just seems like a really low freaking priority to

590
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: transcribe those tapes. If you did three months worth of

591
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: tapes and then it takes you a year, and however

592
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: a year to go through them, well, you know, I'm

593
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: not sure. You know, I'm not sure what the legal

594
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: process here too is putting together in indictment and everything

595
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: that you make it very valid take it back. Yeah,

596
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: but I would I would say transcribing three months worth

597
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: of tapes would take you a while. It takes a

598
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: really long time. Yeah. Well, but especially again because of

599
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: the quality of but I'm guessing that a lot of

600
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: it was dead air time, so you listen to listen

601
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: to it at two time speed when you okay, well,

602
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: it's you know, she always takes the kids to school

603
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: at eight thirty and then she's gone till nine fifteen

604
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: when she shows back up with her Starbucks zip ahead.

605
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: There are such things as voice activated microphones too, so

606
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: that's that's one way around that. If they use that,

607
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: that would that would make more sense. Yeah, okay, yeah,

608
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,479
Speaker 1: so I don't know, or they could use a you know,

609
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: like situation where they have a have a screen like

610
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: the one right over here that's in our sound recording system,

611
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: where they can just like look at the tape and

612
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: just sort of see where the waves pick up and

613
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: just okay, zip to that part and listen. Yeah, but

614
00:31:55,400 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: we we we all know how fallible that it was. Also,

615
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: and they didn't have whizzy stuff like this, Okay, So

616
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: so they recorded a bunch of conversation. Yes, yeah, And

617
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: and of course, and as I said, the Eisenbergs, we're

618
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: not doing well financially, and so they sold the house

619
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,959
Speaker 1: in val Rico and moved to Bethesta, Maryland, which was

620
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: where actually the childhood home was, and his parents still

621
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: owned the house. And so since they were having a

622
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: hard time financially, that his parents let them stay there. Yeah. Meantime,

623
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: of course, as I said, the police and the FBI,

624
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: because that I mentioned that the kidnapping was suspected, that

625
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: the FBI at least touches base on every potential abduction.

626
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: Is that correct, Yeah, because that's a federal crime. Yeah,

627
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,719
Speaker 1: I think that happened after Littlenbirg kidnappens. Yeah, I think

628
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: you're right, And so yeah, it doesn't Yeah, of course

629
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: the FBI is involved. Yeah, yeah, and so so yeah,

630
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: the FBI, and I think that some other police agencies also,

631
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 1: but they're putting together their case. Man obviously they had

632
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: a pretty good idea what had happened to Sabrina. There

633
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: have been some sculptugg areas said earlier. So four months

634
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: after the move to Bethesda, the FBI pays Marley in

635
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: a call. One day they gave her a friendly knock

636
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: on the front door with a battering ram, came came

637
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: busting into the house, and they arrested her. By the way,

638
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: I think, I think it was a little excessive. Yeah,

639
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: you know, I I showed it from sending to the

640
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: SWAT team to that house a bit much. Yeah. Yeah,

641
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: that's ridiculous, especially a house with a couple of kids,

642
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: and you know, I don't know if the kids were

643
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: home at the time or not, but still, you know,

644
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: it just seems kind of outrageous to they showed up

645
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: at after she got back with her Starbucks. Yeah, yeah,

646
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: but the battering ram dudes, really, I mean, right, I

647
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,959
Speaker 1: get to buy a new door. Yeah, across town wherever

648
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: Steve was, I guess he was working. They were arresting him,

649
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: and they were charged with obstructing the investigation lying to

650
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: the police. They were not charged with murder. You know,

651
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: we were talking about the fact that the family was

652
00:33:56,040 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: having financial troubles. Here's a reason why the cops are

653
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,719
Speaker 1: showing up at his job constantly, and his employers like,

654
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: I don't really want the cops around my place business

655
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 1: all the time. Oh look, the the SWAT team rolled

656
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: into the real estate office and hauled your way in cuffs. Yeah. Well,

657
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,399
Speaker 1: I mean think about the whole incident where they dug

658
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: up that guy's yard. Yeah, what's that going to do

659
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: up your business? Yeahs his commission on that sale. Yeah,

660
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:25,879
Speaker 1: I don't know if you did or not, but I'm

661
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,280
Speaker 1: sure that scared a lot of people away. Yeah. Yeah,

662
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 1: so so they hauled him away. Yeah, and and plus

663
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 1: just all the bad publicity anyway, I'm sure would would

664
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: be pretty tough on you as a real estate agent,

665
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah yeah, yeah, buy a house for me.

666
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: The cops come dig up your yard? Yeah, what a sales?

667
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. They had a bail hearing, and a federal

668
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: prosecutor at that here and told the judge that she

669
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: had heard Steve on tape saying quote, I wish I

670
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:56,879
Speaker 1: hadn't harmed her. It was the cocaine quote. And yeah

671
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 1: this This quote also appears in the indictment, which says

672
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: it happened in on January nine. Hadn't harmed her? Do

673
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 1: people speak like that? Yeah? Yeah, I wish I hadn't

674
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: harmed her. Uh. The indictment also quotes Marlene Is saying

675
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 1: Deceber twenty third, quote the baby is dead and married.

676
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,439
Speaker 1: It was found dead because you did it. The baby

677
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: is dead, no matter what you say, you just did it, unquote,

678
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 1: and Steve reportedly replied, quote, honey, there was nothing I

679
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 1: could do about it. We need to discuss the way

680
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 1: we can beat the charge. I would never break the

681
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 1: family packed in our story. Even if the police were

682
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 1: to whold be down. We will do what we have

683
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 1: to do unquote. Uh. The the indictment has a few

684
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 1: other incriminating conversations. I won't recite them all just now.

685
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 1: There's no reason to you. But it was pretty damning evidence.

686
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:50,359
Speaker 1: And you gotta wonder why the Ice Verse were being

687
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: charged with lying in obstruction rather than murder. I gotta wonder.

688
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 1: I feel like the next bid might have something to

689
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: do with that. It's a gateway charge. Yeah, just like

690
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: the cocaine. Yeah. Yeah. So things were looking kind of

691
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 1: dark for the Issenberg's at this point, but then when

692
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 1: they finally got their day in court. The prosecution's case

693
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: kind of fell apart because when the tapes were actually

694
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: played in court and the incriminating statements that were in

695
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 1: the indictment, well, they couldn't actually be heard on the tapes.

696
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: Did it sound like turn me on, dead man? It was?

697
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: It was a housemaid of of masking tape and cardboard. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

698
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: Reportedly the judge, I think his name was Piso, I

699
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: can't remember his first name, reportedly said of the prosecutors,

700
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: is this all you've got? Unquote yeah yeah. Reporter for

701
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: the St. Petersburg Time who was there described the tapes

702
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: as quote sounding like chicken squawking with a hurricane playing

703
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: in the background. That's pretty impressive, you know. Somebody somebody

704
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: was saying that it was very unclear if it wasn't

705
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 1: the television. Well that was one of the things that

706
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 1: I think they did really wrong, right, is that they

707
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: didn't have any way You have seen the wire, right,

708
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: so you know that like at least in the wire

709
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: videotape as well, well you at least have to like

710
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: prove that that person was on the phone at that time, right,

711
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: So the police having no way of corroborating. If these

712
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: are conversations that are being haven't had in real life.

713
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: It's the radio, it's kids, it's you know, neighbors, it's

714
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: people breaking into the house for all they know having

715
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: these conversations. They have no way to know any of

716
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: the stuff. They just have these recordings. On top of that,

717
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: it was all gibberish anyway, And could you imagine if

718
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: it was something along the if the kids were playing

719
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 1: a game that was something along the lines of like

720
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: Grand Theft Auto, which is nothing but gunfire and screaming

721
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 1: and swearing and people die and all kinds of dialogue

722
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 1: like yeah, and then it's yeah, this is just ass

723
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 1: and I yeah, So it was kind of a waste

724
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: of time. The judge, of course, drew out the case. Yeah,

725
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 1: and I heard that the two prosecutors you brought the

726
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 1: is the court were demoted afterwards. That's all. Yeah. I

727
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: I don't understand why they weren't fired in this barred,

728
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: because bringing false evidence in front of a judge is

729
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:15,280
Speaker 1: pretty serious prosecutorial abuse. I feel like these guys, maybe

730
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:20,879
Speaker 1: we're under pressure to to make something happen, and it

731
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 1: may have been a bit of confirmation bias. That's the

732
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: only phrase. It's the only way I can think of

733
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: describe where you've got to hear something and then you

734
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: start hearing something and you convince yourself that it's something

735
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: to ferry. We thought we literally just talked about this

736
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: not too long ago, and the Paul is dead. Yeah.

737
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: I mean anytime we talk about when somebody says, you know,

738
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 1: you put a video up and you subtitle it, suddenly

739
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, yeah, that totally says that, or I

740
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 1: can kind of hear that. But that's I think that

741
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: I don't want to like totally say these guys were

742
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: trying to frame the Azenberg's, but they may have been

743
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 1: very misguided in their attempts. Well, the thing about it is,

744
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 1: it's maybe what they were accounting. I was like, you're

745
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: talking about we have these transcripts which are going to

746
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: be entered into evidence and the jury we'll be looking

747
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: at them, and they'll be listening to the tapes too.

748
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: But if they're reading and listening to the tape at

749
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: the same time, just a second, yeah, I guess it

750
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: kind of sounds like that they're saying that maybe Okay, sure, good,

751
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: what's the what's the saying it's like, um, when you

752
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: live in the monkey house, you like, stop smelling the poop, right,

753
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're in if you're in that for

754
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: so long. So I think that it's it's totally possible

755
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: that that was what was happening to the police. You know.

756
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 1: At some point people are like, I don't know, did

757
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 1: they Yeah? They probably did. I don't know. Well what

758
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 1: evidence do we have when we have those tapes and

759
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: you hear those two you know, and they just kept

760
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: going back and forth and suddenly they weren't smelling the

761
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:42,280
Speaker 1: poop anymore. Yeah, they're probably were right. It's a situation

762
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 1: where I can't remeber who it was we it's a

763
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: friend of ours made the statement where these prosecutors were

764
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: in a situation using analogy as similar to yours, which

765
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 1: is they were in a situation where they had to

766
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:58,919
Speaker 1: turn chicken poop into chicken salad. Yeah, yeah, that's about it. Well,

767
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: they never succeeded. Their case was thrown out. As I said,

768
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 1: the ad the Eisenberg sued and one I'm not going

769
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: to get into all that stuff, but yeah, for years

770
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: it did. It did finally ended in October two thousand

771
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,320
Speaker 1: four when their appeal to the Supreme Court was rejected

772
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: by the Supreme Court. But they did one they're they're

773
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,399
Speaker 1: the thing they're appealing is that their they did win,

774
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: that they won, but they want some stantial amount of

775
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: money for layer of legal fees. And then that was

776
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: cut in two by the appeals court. And then they

777
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: appealed to Supreme Court, which rejected basically declined to hear

778
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: their case. Well, and I think part of the reason

779
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: that if I remember reading it, correct me if I'm

780
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 1: wrong here, Joe, wasn't it They declined the case because

781
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 1: it would set a precedent where anybody could sue the

782
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:48,959
Speaker 1: prosecutor's office basically sue them for doing their job, which

783
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: opened them up to a whole another bag of tricks

784
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: that they shouldn't be worried about. I'm not sure if

785
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 1: that was the same one, but the I think the

786
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 1: Supreme Court, I don't think the and commented on Oh see,

787
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 1: I I remember, I remember maybe it was somebody else.

788
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 1: I think it was. I think it was a different lawsuit.

789
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: They I think they wanted to actually sue or have

790
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 1: the prosecution like prosecuted themselves, but there was prosecutorial immunity

791
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: that maybe I just it was like it was one

792
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 1: of those things like, well, yeah, if you it's suddenly

793
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: it's a snake chasing its own tail. Yeah. So but anyway,

794
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,879
Speaker 1: that's not that relevant to mystery anyway. So yeah, we're

795
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: not gonna bother anymore with that. There was not a

796
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 1: lot of movement after that in the case, no reports

797
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: that I know, let's be honest, there wasn't a whole

798
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 1: lot of movement in the case for Sabrina after about

799
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:43,359
Speaker 1: the first three days. Yeah, not really. Well, I mean

800
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: there was there was some movement in the sense of

801
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: getting sightings, you know, reports of studio. That doesn't really

802
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: that doesn't really move things along. It's not useful. So yeah,

803
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 1: this thing that sort of became a cold case almost immediately.

804
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 1: Um there was a report or not sually I gain

805
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: us In July two eight, there was a report the

806
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: Tampa Bay Times. I assume you guys saw that. Yeah. Yeah,

807
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,839
Speaker 1: so a guy named Dennis Byron, who was at Joel

808
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: House snitch he said his cellmates, got over back and

809
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 1: confessed to taking part in Sabrina's demise. All Rebec said

810
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: that he had made call to the Eisenberg home by

811
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: an unnamed third party to retrieve a small boat that

812
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: had a dead baby in it. Yeah, he said that

813
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: he chopped the body up and used the parts to

814
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 1: it's a little tacky here, but to bake crab traps,

815
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 1: which he then dropped into Old Tampa Bay to the

816
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: western town. You can see it on maps. U and

817
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: I checked. Apparently the crabbing is pretty good in the bay,

818
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 1: not so much in late November, but you know, there

819
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: are a lot of crabs in that bay. I gotta

820
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: say it would take a very particular kind of person

821
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:55,439
Speaker 1: to be able to commit that chop up a dead baby. Yes,

822
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: to be able to do that, I mean to do

823
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,240
Speaker 1: it regardless of what you are doing with the remains afterwards.

824
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,959
Speaker 1: Like this guy, if he could do that, I would

825
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: imagine that he was the coldest s ob in the

826
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: planet and should have been in trouble for a lot

827
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 1: of other things. Because it wasn't. It wasn't trouble. He

828
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 1: was in jail right, but much more heine his crimes.

829
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 1: He obviously had no qualms about that kind of stuff,

830
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 1: like it's just that's that's that's surpasses dexter level to me. Yeah,

831
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: it kind of is. I have you know, for all

832
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 1: we know, the guy was probably lying. I've always had

833
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 1: a problem with jail house snitches. But yeah, yeah, and

834
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: if you're on the jerry, don't trust the jail house snitch.

835
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: Take it with a grain of salt. Well, that's because

836
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: the prosecutors love to use them and abuse them much so.

837
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 1: Although in this case, the police had wired up a

838
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 1: Sony Walkman as a listening device and give it to

839
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: Byron to take it. But all Walkman's were listening devices.

840
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: Good point, but to listen to the other direction recording device,

841
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: so they had recorded a back statements. But on the

842
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: other hand, the Isenberg said that they had never owned

843
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: a boat, and I couldn't find any confirmation one way

844
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 1: or the other. But you gotta assume that the police

845
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 1: pulled out all the stops to find out if they

846
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 1: ever owned a boat, right, And there's ways to do that,

847
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 1: by the way, I mean, yes, the neighbors that they

848
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 1: have a boat parked in their driveway. And also you

849
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 1: go down, you've got to register your boat and putting

850
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 1: numbers on it and stuff, so you know, you can

851
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: you can go see if they registered their boat. And

852
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: so there's there's ways to find out if they had

853
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: a boat, right, so for what? Okay, listen, I'm gonna

854
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: make it very clear here that I am on the

855
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 1: side of the family in this story. This is one

856
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,240
Speaker 1: of the ones where I just I can't jump both

857
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: sides for the most part, But in this part there

858
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 1: is a whole bunch of ways. You're gonna buy a

859
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 1: boat from a guy, but you don't have an actual

860
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:55,320
Speaker 1: contract with the guy. Instead, you say, listen, you hold

861
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: the note, you and I know it's on a handshake deal.

862
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pay for it over time. We're gonna keep

863
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: it at at the dock. You you keep the paperwork,

864
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: so then it's never in their name. But people do

865
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: that with with collateral all the time. But Overback said

866
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 1: that he actually retreated it from their home. It was

867
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:18,359
Speaker 1: it was parked at their home and they had the band,

868
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: Sabrina's body was already in it. I misread it because

869
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 1: when I read his stuff, I swore that he retrieved

870
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: the boat from where it was docked. I thought it.

871
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't take it as I didn't remember

872
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: being in their drive. What was over Back in jail for,

873
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: you know, I can't remember now. It was not actually

874
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 1: it wasn't something hideously hamous it was. I don't think

875
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: it was from murder or anything like that. I just

876
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: gotta wonder if, like, I know, this is like really

877
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 1: messed up, but I kind of wonder if he was

878
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 1: trying to like bulk up his cred you know that.

879
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,359
Speaker 1: Don't mess with me. I did this thing. I'm so

880
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 1: hardly you don't want to come at me in jail.

881
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: I'm not like I'm not to be trifled with. This

882
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 1: is a thing I did. Yeah, it could be that,

883
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: it could be that. It could be the Byron actually,

884
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 1: like you know, put the walkman into a pillow and said, hey, dude,

885
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 1: let's have some fun with the prosecutors here. That thing

886
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 1: is a bug. So hey, why don't you why don't

887
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: you confess to something incredible lurid you know, you know,

888
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: And that's actually that now that you say that, that's

889
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: a great way to get in with somebody. We're going

890
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: to pretend incriminate you for something that we know cannot

891
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 1: be true because we're making it up as we go.

892
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:34,360
Speaker 1: So then suddenly you're on board. You're you're your player

893
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: in the game. So for the guy who's recording it,

894
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: it gets him some some credit. Yeah, so yeah, And

895
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 1: I gotta say the other thing about Jaila how snitches,

896
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: is that if you're ever in jail for murder, I mean,

897
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:47,839
Speaker 1: if you have to have ever put you in jail

898
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 1: and you're suspected and some guy sits down next to

899
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: you and says, hey, what's you in for? Yeah, you

900
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 1: gotta say murder, and he says, really what you do?

901
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: And you gotta say, Well, this guy was pissing me off.

902
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 1: So I chloroformed, and I tied him up with budget

903
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 1: chords and when it came to I changed them up

904
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: and lowered him slowly into a vat of hydrochloric ass.

905
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 1: And let's let him take that back to the prosecutors,

906
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 1: you know, ahead, Yeah, yeah, well I put I put

907
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: him in a well, I lowered a bucket with lotion

908
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 1: in it, and I said it puts Yeah, no, actually

909
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: accustomed build a really huge tribute. And okay, oh yeah,

910
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:29,319
Speaker 1: let's get back to let's story here. That's been as

911
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 1: of right now, it's been almost twenty years since the

912
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: Rena vanished and not a single trace ever has been found,

913
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 1: I mean nothing. So I know that we're about to

914
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 1: get into the theory section. But I think we'd be

915
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:43,760
Speaker 1: a little miss if we don't talk about a little

916
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 1: bit of some of the footage that is of the

917
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 1: parents when they go on TV, because Stephen Martley talk

918
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 1: about like Larry King, well, Larry King or Araldo and

919
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 1: stuff like that. I mean, this is one of those

920
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 1: weird cases where I felt like I got as much

921
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: formation from news reporting actual videos as I did from

922
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: the written stuff, where normally I I avoid the videos.

923
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: But the Heraldo segment was pretty good. You know what.

924
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: That reaffirmed for me why I hate Nancy Grace because

925
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 1: that broad is a giant liar. Oh she's horrible, But

926
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: that's not my point. My point is people talk about

927
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 1: how heartless these people are, how just cold they are.

928
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 1: Their their daughter was stolen, according to what they say.

929
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 1: I get that, we can't just say that's what happened,

930
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:39,440
Speaker 1: but their their child is gone. They are beaten up

931
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,760
Speaker 1: by the media, they were beaten up by the police,

932
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 1: they were beaten up by the prosecutor's office, and they

933
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:48,879
Speaker 1: are on TV a good jillion times. Do you not

934
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 1: think that after a while it just becomes a mechanical

935
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 1: thing you have to do. Well. Yeah, and of course

936
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:00,839
Speaker 1: time passes to yes. Obviously, this is you're not a

937
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 1: blubbering mess for the next fifty years when words are uttered.

938
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,919
Speaker 1: Even if you don't get get over it, you learn

939
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: how to cope, how to respond to it. It's like Steve,

940
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 1: you know, people talk about him being so cold and mechanical,

941
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 1: but he was in real estate and Joe, you and

942
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: I asked you this earlier, so you I don't remember

943
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 1: what it was he did for a living before or

944
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: after the whole real estate thing. Yeah, I forgot. It

945
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:32,839
Speaker 1: was some sort of delivering installing stuff and I can't

946
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 1: computer stuff. I mean, he seems like a very technical guy,

947
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 1: and he seems like he just has a very, very

948
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: deliberate way about him. He's very emotionless by nature. And

949
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: I don't mean that as a as a slur, just

950
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: the way he reacts. And yet at the same time

951
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:57,319
Speaker 1: I watched that guy freak out on TV. I mean,

952
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,439
Speaker 1: he got very remember one you were talking about, Yeah,

953
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:04,399
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, how do you call them not emotional? Well, yeah,

954
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 1: of course he's not crying over the fact that his

955
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: daughter has gone six or nine months later, because he's

956
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:13,240
Speaker 1: cried himself out, but he still has emotion, he still

957
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 1: loses it, but people don't want to attribute that to

958
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: actual feelings. It just it feels really weird to me

959
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: the way that this case has just been so it's polarized. Well,

960
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 1: it's not just this case, right, it's any time that

961
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 1: kids disappear parents. There's such a spotlight put on their

962
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 1: parents to react exactly the right way, right, and if

963
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 1: they don't react exactly how everybody thinks they should write,

964
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: they should be teary, but not like in an fake, weird,

965
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 1: dramatic way, and they should be like very stoic the

966
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: entire time and never smile. And they can't just be

967
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 1: too stern about it, right, but they and they can't

968
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: because they also can't come off as though like they

969
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 1: were maybe like distant and abuse so while the child

970
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,919
Speaker 1: was there, and like it's just like, oh my god,

971
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,439
Speaker 1: Like these people are human beings going through a thing,

972
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 1: and like we're putting the spotlight on them. Of course

973
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 1: they're not going to like stack up, of course they're not.

974
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 1: Nobody does and probably you know, when you go out

975
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: in public, you know you behave a little differently than

976
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 1: you do in private. Yeah, and most of us don't

977
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: want to be seen crying on national TV. Well, I

978
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: mean there's also the question of like what, you know,

979
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 1: what kind of household did Steve grow up in? Was

980
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 1: it okay for guys to cry? Right? Or was he

981
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 1: meant to be holding it in? Was that right? You know,

982
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:39,359
Speaker 1: just hold it in? And like the way that he

983
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: expressed his emotion again, is that anger outburst and that

984
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 1: like he thought, I can't cry, I'm a man, right.

985
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 1: It's something as simple as like, you know, maybe you

986
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 1: don't mind if your neighbor sees you cry, but you

987
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: really don't want your father seeing you cry, right, you know,

988
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 1: and you know your dad's gonna see you on TV, right,

989
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 1: so you're gonna hold it in. Right? So anyway, enough

990
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 1: enough about this speculation about him Ocean. Well, yeah, we're right,

991
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 1: I mean, and just just again to read for everybody

992
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 1: you know this, this is something that happens two parents,

993
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 1: no matter what their age of their children are. I mean,

994
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,399
Speaker 1: there's um I think I've talked about the book before,

995
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: The People Who Eat Darkness. That book the girl was

996
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 1: I think she was twenty or twenty two when she

997
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:27,440
Speaker 1: disappeared in the same kind of speculation about the family's

998
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 1: reactions that we just talked about here were thrust upon

999
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 1: the parents of a twenty sem odd year old woman.

1000
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:39,839
Speaker 1: So it's it's universal. It's despicable, but it's universal. It's

1001
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 1: like it's like the dango ate my baby chick, you know.

1002
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 1: The And then years go by and she's the most

1003
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 1: hated woman in Australia and then they finally find her

1004
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: babies with skeletal remains. For it wasn't the remains, but

1005
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 1: it was I think it was the blanket. They found

1006
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 1: the blanket in a dingo down. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And

1007
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: so it looks like she was telling ge haters, how

1008
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:02,399
Speaker 1: do you feel about yourself? Now? Justified? Come on, let's

1009
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 1: let's be justified and talk about theories. Yeah yeah, all right,

1010
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,760
Speaker 1: let's get into our theories. Okay, yeah, I divided theories

1011
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 1: in the two subsets. Yeah you did you. I've been

1012
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:20,399
Speaker 1: trained by the best. So first is Stephen Marline are

1013
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,800
Speaker 1: telling the truth? Uh, and the second set is they're lying?

1014
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:27,839
Speaker 1: Can I in a referse section? There's weird. I just

1015
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:30,879
Speaker 1: noticed something weird in your note is that you've abbreviated

1016
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:37,240
Speaker 1: these people so they become but only when they're like bad.

1017
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 1: It really It really threw me. It was like, what

1018
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:43,799
Speaker 1: this isn't this is a theory. I didn't know that

1019
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: asking them is lying. I didn't know that either. I

1020
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 1: didn't know it was possible. Oh okay, let's start out.

1021
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 1: So the parents knew nothing. They truly knew nothing. So

1022
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,239
Speaker 1: the theories under that would be Sabrina was abducted and

1023
00:53:56,320 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 1: murdered by a random killer that's extremely abnormally a baby

1024
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: of that age. Well, it just seems unlikely to me

1025
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 1: that somebody would just be going down the street and

1026
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:09,439
Speaker 1: the cold to sack by the way that I mention

1027
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: it was a cold to sack, Yeah, and and happy

1028
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 1: to see an open garage door and just say, hey,

1029
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 1: I'll walk over there and see if that I can.

1030
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:17,439
Speaker 1: The door to the house is unlocked, and hey, guess

1031
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 1: what it is. Maybe I'll go see if I can

1032
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: abduct a child and you don't take them out in

1033
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 1: the woods and murder of them. Yeah, that's that's yeah.

1034
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 1: And the one thing that another theory that's been put

1035
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:29,320
Speaker 1: out there by people, that there's a whole devil worshiping

1036
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 1: cult thing, yeah, satanic panic, yes, yeah. And so I'm

1037
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 1: finding all that whole thing just not satanic panic wasn't

1038
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 1: a real thing, not really, So that's this, know, this

1039
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 1: theory doesn't exist, okay theory. Okay, abduction for sale, and

1040
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 1: of course there's also just abduction by somebody who's baby crazy.

1041
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 1: So I guess that comes to a whole like, you know,

1042
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 1: three theories there. Um, Yeah, we need to explain when

1043
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 1: when you say baby crazy, Joe, you mean there are

1044
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 1: there's a condition for folks and craziest wrong term use.

1045
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 1: But it's just that people, the people who really want

1046
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 1: a child but for whatever reason can't have one, yes,

1047
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 1: and therefore resort to stealing someone else's child. Yeah, this

1048
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 1: is not not unknown. But so let's let's do the

1049
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 1: abduction the baby crazy one first. That that would mean

1050
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 1: somebody really really wanted a child and they stopped. They

1051
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:26,840
Speaker 1: stopped the family for god knows how long, and you know,

1052
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 1: no more than five months. Yeah, obviously, but they stocked

1053
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:32,359
Speaker 1: him for a while, probably because they had to get

1054
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 1: an idea of you know, where they lived and everything,

1055
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 1: and sort of get an idea of you know, hey,

1056
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 1: they leave the garage store open, Hey we can go

1057
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: jimmy the lock and hey that night we locked out.

1058
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 1: They didn't even lock the lock, you know. And and

1059
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 1: we went in there and found the baby and took it,

1060
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 1: and and and Sabrina was a cute kid. She was

1061
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 1: a cute little baby, you know. So I'm gonna go

1062
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,800
Speaker 1: on record say I hate this theory, but it actually

1063
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:59,479
Speaker 1: it actually explains something to a degree, which is, let's

1064
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:03,840
Speaker 1: say that said people who are in need of a baby,

1065
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:09,959
Speaker 1: whether for emotional reasons or financial reasons, happened to live

1066
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 1: on the other side of the fence, walk around, they

1067
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 1: see the door is open, that person walks in, opens

1068
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 1: the baby there. Don't open the baby out there, pretty creepy.

1069
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:31,600
Speaker 1: The door is open, and they take the baby, thank

1070
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 1: you for correcting that. And then they walk to the

1071
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 1: back fence where their accomplice who is in the house

1072
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:41,280
Speaker 1: is at the fence and hand the baby over the fence,

1073
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 1: and then they go back out the front door, thus

1074
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 1: eliminating the need to walk around the block with a

1075
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 1: potentially crying baby or you know where you might be seen.

1076
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 1: On the other hand, however, uh, it seems like the

1077
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:59,879
Speaker 1: police search was fairly extensive, and like they probably would

1078
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 1: have like just at least casually searched people's houses like

1079
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 1: but but that doesn't mean that the people who wanted

1080
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:09,800
Speaker 1: the baby and we're staying at that house were the

1081
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 1: people who lived in that house. It could be my

1082
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 1: wife and I want a baby and I'm staying with

1083
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 1: my aunt and uncle for an extended stay, let's say

1084
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 1: two weeks, and I realized they have it. And the

1085
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: the day before I'm supposed to leave, I'm out on

1086
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 1: a walk and I realized it, and I'm like, holy crap, honey,

1087
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 1: They've left the door open. Like we can totally we

1088
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 1: can have a raising Arizona moment, at which point, you know,

1089
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 1: we just leave in the night and leave a note

1090
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: that say we had to go, and then we show

1091
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:44,040
Speaker 1: up months later it's like, well, we didn't want to

1092
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 1: tell anybody, but she was actually pregnant. Ha, Like it's

1093
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 1: it's a total raising Arizona situation. There are some issues

1094
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:53,560
Speaker 1: with this, though, There are. I mean, that would have

1095
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 1: been that would have been interesting, and it would have

1096
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 1: been really coincidental that the people right behind them wanted

1097
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:01,200
Speaker 1: a baby real bad. Well, that's why I'm saying it's

1098
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 1: somebody that isn't the neighbors, so that they're gone. Yeah,

1099
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 1: but more than that, right, I mean, so Okay, so

1100
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,919
Speaker 1: say that somebody did abduct this baby and then chose

1101
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 1: to raise it on their own. But we live in America,

1102
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 1: and um, like you need things like a birth certificate

1103
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 1: or like a Social Security number or card. I mean

1104
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 1: you can get a replacement card, right, We've discovered that,

1105
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 1: but you need your number YEA, And yeah, you can

1106
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 1: get a replacement birth certificate, but you need some proof

1107
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 1: of you know, you saying you are who you are,

1108
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 1: and there's just a lot of stuff you need. It's hard.

1109
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:43,439
Speaker 1: It would be hard to explain because like say you're

1110
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 1: adopted by this family and you go out and you

1111
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 1: actually get a birth certificate for somebody was born about

1112
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 1: the same time, but who died. You know that that's

1113
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 1: it's harder to do these days, you can still do that.

1114
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 1: But the problem is is in you got to figure

1115
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 1: out a way to explain the fact that you've got

1116
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 1: this kid. So you're we're all, we're all making a

1117
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:10,920
Speaker 1: giant mistake here. Know that everybody has a child in

1118
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 1: a hospital. It is entirely possible that somebody could file

1119
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 1: the paperwork and say I had my child at home.

1120
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 1: I didn't have a midwife with me. It just happened,

1121
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 1: and we've got our baby. People do that. It's not

1122
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 1: it's not common, but it's not unheard of that home

1123
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 1: bursts happened and they are unattended, and it is very

1124
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 1: difficult to get the proper paperwork after the fact. But

1125
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 1: if this child is like six months old, you can

1126
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 1: flub that. You can fudge it and say, you know that,

1127
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:50,919
Speaker 1: you can make up some stuff. And by the time

1128
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 1: that you've filed your paperwork and they come around eventually

1129
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 1: the child is months older than that, they may not

1130
00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 1: ever figure it out. It's entirely possible. Is it plausible.

1131
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 1: I don't think so, but it is possible if you

1132
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 1: were smart, you're planned it. Well, that's one of the

1133
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 1: things you could do is you could file the paperwork

1134
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:11,800
Speaker 1: like you was like three months old, and you knew

1135
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 1: what she looked like. She has dark hair, dark eyes,

1136
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:17,960
Speaker 1: and about X number of pounds. Yeah, yeah, and then

1137
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 1: you know, and then by the time by the time

1138
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:21,920
Speaker 1: they finally come around and have a look at her,

1139
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 1: you know she's a couple of months older. But and

1140
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 1: you don't even consider that she's Sabrina because I mean,

1141
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 1: you put you found your paperwork like two months before kidnapping.

1142
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 1: You know, she so she looks uncomfortably like Sabrina, but

1143
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 1: you know I can't be You file the paperwork way

1144
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 1: back when. Yeah, that's meditation. And of course you have

1145
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 1: also dyed her hair like blonde. Well, and that's the

1146
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 1: sort of thing you would have to do, right, because

1147
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 1: they think to make the assumption babies progress in a

1148
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:54,120
Speaker 1: very predictable way, especially in that first year of life.

1149
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 1: And so to say like, wow, they wouldn't notice a

1150
01:00:56,920 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 1: couple of months, it's like they probably would though. Uh,

1151
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:03,920
Speaker 1: you know everything I know about social workers and people

1152
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:06,440
Speaker 1: who are in that profession and the workload. I'm not

1153
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:09,959
Speaker 1: knocking them, but their workloads. I'm not talking about social

1154
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 1: workers that I'm talking about doctors, like you take her

1155
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:14,919
Speaker 1: for her baby wellness check up six months and she's

1156
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 1: actually like eight months. They're going to know. So if

1157
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 1: what Joe says they would have premeditated, that would make

1158
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 1: it a lot more believable. But that would have to

1159
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 1: have been really premeditated, and it would have had to

1160
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 1: been local, Yeah, very much so. But or some incredible

1161
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 1: incredible professionals, you know, like you guys that are like

1162
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 1: guys that are like international crime like level kind of

1163
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:40,320
Speaker 1: thing that we're hired by rich people. Oh so it's

1164
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 1: it's it's it's baby impossible like that. Yeah, but I

1165
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:48,240
Speaker 1: guess at that point it's kind of like, if they

1166
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 1: are baby impossible level, right, why are you not just

1167
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 1: kidnapping babies from other countries and then shipping them over

1168
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:57,920
Speaker 1: here as like they're adopted. Sadly, it turns out that

1169
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 1: is much easier and affordable. Yeah, that I don't know,

1170
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 1: But I don't know. Yeah, Okay, Well, so much for

1171
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 1: that that whole theory. Abduction by baby crazy, abduction for sale.

1172
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 1: I think that's a similar thing. I think it's unlikely.

1173
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 1: They're all unlikely. So let's let's to our next set

1174
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 1: of theories. Well, it's actually that's that's the one I

1175
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:19,440
Speaker 1: like though, the most. Which one is that? The abduction

1176
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 1: for keeping O, That's the one I want, that's in

1177
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:29,800
Speaker 1: like in your emotional that's what I want. This girl

1178
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 1: is This is girl is at this point, if this

1179
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 1: is true, she is old right now, eighteen, So I

1180
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 1: really want this to be some eighteen year old girl

1181
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:46,360
Speaker 1: whose biggest concern is should she or should she not

1182
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 1: date Bobby Johnson? Yeah, better than somebody who's dead and

1183
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 1: then rotting in a grave somewhere. Right, you know, something

1184
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:55,800
Speaker 1: terrible has happened too soon. That's what I'm just gonna

1185
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 1: keep saying. Just thinking, Bobby Johnson, you realize you have

1186
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 1: one of our listens might actually be Sabrina. So if

1187
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 1: you're eighteen, Sabrina, of course you're not called Sabrina. Check yours.

1188
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:11,360
Speaker 1: That might be coincidental. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, okay. Subset

1189
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:17,600
Speaker 1: theory number two, yeah, which is the parents did know something. Uh,

1190
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 1: it does does kind of look like they maybe knew something.

1191
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:23,120
Speaker 1: I left one little detail out from the story of

1192
01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 1: that first day. Remember what I said, The police put

1193
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 1: a tap on the Eisenberg's phone, Yeah, just in case

1194
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 1: the kid never called. One of the first calls that

1195
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 1: came in that morning was from Steve's brother, Dave, who

1196
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, who was a lawyer, and who called

1197
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:39,440
Speaker 1: him up and told him he should be careful what

1198
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 1: he said to the police and it should lawyer up

1199
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 1: and cetera. Yeah, And then when they were talking and

1200
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:47,440
Speaker 1: the police were listening to this conversation, they heard a

1201
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 1: beat which was call waiting. Somebody was calling in, And

1202
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:57,800
Speaker 1: surprisingly Steve didn't take the call yeah, And eventually the

1203
01:03:57,880 --> 01:04:01,520
Speaker 1: caller rang off. You know what that sounds like, Yeah, yeah,

1204
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:05,520
Speaker 1: I've hung up tone yeah, yeah, yeah, And Steven Dave

1205
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:09,760
Speaker 1: kept talking and then another call came in, and once

1206
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 1: again Steve blew the call off that he was really

1207
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 1: concerned about her having been kidnapped. Apparently, yeah, apparently he didn't.

1208
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:19,720
Speaker 1: He didn't believe for a second that she had been kidnapped. UM,

1209
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:23,120
Speaker 1: I have to ask a question, which is, have you

1210
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:27,440
Speaker 1: never seen what happens to anybody that's in the media spotlight.

1211
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 1: Everybody and their mom calls them from news agencies to talk.

1212
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 1: So it could very well have been that he was.

1213
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:43,040
Speaker 1: They were getting good jillions of Hi, this is so

1214
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 1: and so from ABC News Channel seven, want to talk

1215
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:49,520
Speaker 1: about missing child? Can we talk with you? No go away? Hi?

1216
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 1: This is so and so from CBS News Channel six.

1217
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,120
Speaker 1: Can we talk to you? No go await? Like but

1218
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 1: I get that. But still, but any car, any call

1219
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:01,920
Speaker 1: could have been the kick off and the kid never

1220
01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 1: number one number two. I again, I'm making assumptions here.

1221
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 1: I have to assume that the police let the media know, Hey, guys,

1222
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:13,240
Speaker 1: don't be calling in. I'm not gonna agree with that.

1223
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 1: The media is that crap all the time, But but

1224
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:18,160
Speaker 1: seriously they I mean, I could see what the police

1225
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:20,280
Speaker 1: would say, Hey, we have to keep that lineup, and

1226
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 1: in case their kid never calls it, we have to

1227
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:25,320
Speaker 1: keep it open. I don't think. I don't think news

1228
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:28,240
Speaker 1: agencies call people. I think they'd show up on their doorstep.

1229
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 1: You know what the first string does. The third string

1230
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:37,280
Speaker 1: doesn't like the radio station. They don't have a guy

1231
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:40,000
Speaker 1: to send down there. But my other thing to think about,

1232
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:43,760
Speaker 1: and and again I realize I'm defending these people when

1233
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 1: I say these things, and it's not to defend them,

1234
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 1: it's just that I see other reasons. But the other

1235
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:52,720
Speaker 1: thing is, I don't know if you've ever had this,

1236
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:56,439
Speaker 1: but I know people who don't understand how to use

1237
01:05:56,560 --> 01:06:00,480
Speaker 1: call waiting. So it may have been and that he

1238
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:05,360
Speaker 1: never understood how to use this this goll dang call

1239
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:09,160
Speaker 1: thing it comes through. I can't believe he's quite that dumb.

1240
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:13,600
Speaker 1: But I have no perfectly intelligent people who look at

1241
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:18,560
Speaker 1: their phone and go, what what are these other three

1242
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:22,200
Speaker 1: buttons for? That don't have numbers? Or the picture of

1243
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:27,440
Speaker 1: a red or green phone on him? Was what it was?

1244
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 1: You got to be you hit the receiver button and

1245
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: you clicked over the other line. Though even on a

1246
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:38,360
Speaker 1: cordless phone, it was probably possible. But the thing about

1247
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:41,200
Speaker 1: there's no button on a cordless phone, there's a hang

1248
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:44,960
Speaker 1: up and there's an answer and a disconnect button. Which

1249
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:47,080
Speaker 1: one would you hit? There? There is a way. And

1250
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:49,560
Speaker 1: I don't know if he was cos I'm being a

1251
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 1: jerk about this, but making a point. I think realistically

1252
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 1: people at that time. I just think realistically in the end. Right,

1253
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:01,320
Speaker 1: if even if you don't know how to use call waiting, right,

1254
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:03,720
Speaker 1: the first time you hear that thing going, you go,

1255
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:08,040
Speaker 1: oh crap, Dave, I'm sorry, somebody's ringing the other line.

1256
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:10,560
Speaker 1: I gotta go yeah, exactly right. You don't stay on

1257
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:15,600
Speaker 1: the phone or you say, hey, Mr Police officer, Sir,

1258
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:17,720
Speaker 1: I was just on the phone with my brother Dave,

1259
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:19,720
Speaker 1: and I heard call waiting ringing. I didn't know how

1260
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:23,440
Speaker 1: to switch over. What do I do? You bring it up?

1261
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:27,160
Speaker 1: If you actually think that a kidnapper is calling for ransom,

1262
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 1: you bring it up and you hang up the phone.

1263
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:32,120
Speaker 1: Even if you can't figure out how to duck over

1264
01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:33,640
Speaker 1: to that other line, well, let me let me tell

1265
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:36,520
Speaker 1: you something else. Completely logical with Now you gotta you

1266
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 1: gotta understand something else too. Steve was a real estate agent.

1267
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:43,280
Speaker 1: Do you understand how key the phone is to a

1268
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:47,680
Speaker 1: real estate agent? I do, but I don't know how

1269
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 1: good of a real estate agent he was. Well, I mean,

1270
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 1: look at the house they were living in. It was

1271
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:56,600
Speaker 1: a nice house. I think I can tell this whole

1272
01:07:56,640 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 1: thing happened is business one down to toil. He was

1273
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:00,920
Speaker 1: probably doing pretty well. I thought huge started in the

1274
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 1: real estate busy at that point. I think he had

1275
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 1: been in it for a while and I had no

1276
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:08,120
Speaker 1: idea how long he was selling cass but apparently maybe

1277
01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:09,919
Speaker 1: he had only just started. But he was just doing

1278
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 1: it really well because the market was really hot right

1279
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:14,720
Speaker 1: at that part. Because I remember that is that was

1280
01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:17,320
Speaker 1: that's a bubble. I mean the bubble was still going

1281
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:19,200
Speaker 1: on that you know, it was like that was kind

1282
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:24,439
Speaker 1: of the beginning. Any idiot will serve. But I think, sorry,

1283
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 1: go ahead, but I get a guy. I've got to

1284
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:28,880
Speaker 1: tell you, I've dealt with many, many real estate agents,

1285
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:31,760
Speaker 1: and they live and die by their phones. Yeah they do.

1286
01:08:32,280 --> 01:08:37,799
Speaker 1: I just think we've had Nauseams discussed Steve's downfall of phones.

1287
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:44,320
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't have to use the phone. But anyway,

1288
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:47,600
Speaker 1: this is this, okay, among other things, this is one

1289
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:49,360
Speaker 1: of the things that right right for the start told

1290
01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:52,599
Speaker 1: the police that the parents knew something, at least something.

1291
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:56,599
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that they murdered Sabrina, but they knew something.

1292
01:08:56,960 --> 01:09:00,280
Speaker 1: And I think I suspect they did know something. So

1293
01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:02,479
Speaker 1: let's go go through our theories here, which is that

1294
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:05,599
Speaker 1: Stephen Marley and killed Sabrina. I don't think that either

1295
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:08,720
Speaker 1: one of them is this intentional or unintentional. I think

1296
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:14,680
Speaker 1: most likely, you know, unintentional because it's not totally out

1297
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:16,760
Speaker 1: of the realm of possibility. But I've seen pictures, have

1298
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:19,880
Speaker 1: you guys, these guys have seen pictures in the videos. Yeah, yeah,

1299
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:22,320
Speaker 1: and and and you know, they're smiling and they're happy,

1300
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:25,800
Speaker 1: you know, and and they're very happy with them. Yeah,

1301
01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:29,200
Speaker 1: and and and so they didn't look to me like

1302
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:32,400
Speaker 1: they were hating on Sabrina to want to kill her. Yeah.

1303
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 1: So I'm thinking that if they did kill her, it

1304
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:38,719
Speaker 1: was accidental. It might have been it might have involved

1305
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:42,479
Speaker 1: some sort of negligence which maybe would have looked kind

1306
01:09:42,479 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 1: of bad, and maybe, you know, maybe them want to like,

1307
01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:48,280
Speaker 1: you know, keep it quiet. I don't know. Let's see,

1308
01:09:48,280 --> 01:09:49,760
Speaker 1: what what can I think of? You know, I ran

1309
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:51,920
Speaker 1: over the baby with the car the driveway or something

1310
01:09:52,040 --> 01:09:53,640
Speaker 1: like that, that kind of thing that that would that

1311
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:57,600
Speaker 1: would be blatant negligence to try to hide. Yes, So

1312
01:09:57,880 --> 01:09:59,400
Speaker 1: that's one of the one of the things I'm thinking

1313
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:01,919
Speaker 1: is or thinking of one of those baby shaking incidents,

1314
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:04,840
Speaker 1: you know, where people don't mean to but they shake

1315
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:06,880
Speaker 1: the baby and the baby's neck breaks and the baby

1316
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:09,760
Speaker 1: dies and all that stuff which got its terrible thinking.

1317
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:13,200
Speaker 1: Actually still effing happens. Yes, it does happen, I mean,

1318
01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:15,960
Speaker 1: And so it could have been something like that. So

1319
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:19,160
Speaker 1: you could have done that. Yeah, No, I don't don't

1320
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:21,519
Speaker 1: like it. You don't like it. No, I never like it.

1321
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:24,680
Speaker 1: You don't you don't like it? Okay, next up. So

1322
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:28,720
Speaker 1: the next theory is is that Stephen Marline sold her.

1323
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:32,000
Speaker 1: They crunched the numbers and they decided they couldn't afford

1324
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:34,400
Speaker 1: to have three children after all, and so they found

1325
01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:38,400
Speaker 1: themselves a wealthy buyer and and pedalder. This has got

1326
01:10:38,439 --> 01:10:40,680
Speaker 1: a lot of problems too, of course, the first of

1327
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:45,880
Speaker 1: which is it's relatively easy to adopt your child out. Yeah,

1328
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:47,920
Speaker 1: and so it would be a little greedy be to

1329
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:53,400
Speaker 1: be like, you know, asking for money on top of that, Actually, yeah,

1330
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:55,680
Speaker 1: yeah you could do it. You could definitely. She was

1331
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:59,559
Speaker 1: a cute little kid. And also white children are much

1332
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 1: more into man. There's then say black and brown children.

1333
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:05,599
Speaker 1: Hate to say it, but it's true. It's true people

1334
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:07,960
Speaker 1: often times. I mean I have I have a family

1335
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 1: member who they have been waiting to adopt a child

1336
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:14,360
Speaker 1: for five years now because they will only take a

1337
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:19,960
Speaker 1: white boy with no mental handicaps that is an infant,

1338
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:22,479
Speaker 1: because they want it to look like it's there's yeah,

1339
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:25,640
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Like it's like I have a lot

1340
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:27,479
Speaker 1: of good luck with that guys, and a lot of

1341
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:30,120
Speaker 1: personal problems with that notwithstanding, But I know that's the thing.

1342
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:34,519
Speaker 1: A lot of people will pay will solve their problems. Yeah,

1343
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:37,599
Speaker 1: I mean they will not have a child. Well they will,

1344
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:40,680
Speaker 1: I mean, if they're willing to pay eventually. Yeah, but

1345
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 1: I don't I guess it seems weird that it would

1346
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:46,599
Speaker 1: have been yeah, five five months, right, I mean they

1347
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:50,000
Speaker 1: knew from nine months prior, yeah, you know, and then

1348
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:52,200
Speaker 1: to wait the additional five months and then after five

1349
01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:55,160
Speaker 1: months finally be like oh yeah, okay, but you would, yeah,

1350
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:56,920
Speaker 1: you would think that that at that point it would

1351
01:11:56,920 --> 01:11:59,559
Speaker 1: have been so attached. But you bond with that baby,

1352
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:02,760
Speaker 1: you yeah, you do, but you never know. I mean,

1353
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:08,560
Speaker 1: maybe she was a really crappy baby. I mean, I know,

1354
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:12,840
Speaker 1: I know you're joking when you say that, but but

1355
01:12:13,240 --> 01:12:18,479
Speaker 1: I mean it's yes, I can see how they might

1356
01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:21,760
Speaker 1: have decided that they had made that they could not

1357
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:26,840
Speaker 1: sustain a family of three children. You know, they couldn't

1358
01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:29,080
Speaker 1: afford it, so they were gonna was gonna use the

1359
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:32,160
Speaker 1: word offload, but that's not the right right where to use.

1360
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:35,439
Speaker 1: They need to give her to another family, and they

1361
01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:39,719
Speaker 1: would like to be compensated for doing so. But again,

1362
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:45,639
Speaker 1: that is so easy to do. And from the things

1363
01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:49,240
Speaker 1: that I've read about that girl would have been snapped

1364
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:51,679
Speaker 1: up in a heartbeat and they would have been really

1365
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:55,639
Speaker 1: well compensated. So this doesn't make a lick of sense

1366
01:12:55,720 --> 01:12:57,559
Speaker 1: to me. Well, it's kind of hard to shop your

1367
01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:00,639
Speaker 1: baby around without leaving sort of a trail, Like, yeah,

1368
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:02,920
Speaker 1: that's so, that's that's the reason. I don't know. Yeah,

1369
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:05,439
Speaker 1: there's there's no such dot com for a reason. But

1370
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 1: there's also like, like this is a really big deal

1371
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:12,720
Speaker 1: to make out of it. I know that this may

1372
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:16,720
Speaker 1: sound like insane, right, but a private deal between like

1373
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:19,840
Speaker 1: two people. I'm sure you get some lawyers involved, but

1374
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:22,439
Speaker 1: there's there's no need for this like national attention, this

1375
01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:26,400
Speaker 1: national accusation of you know, oh my god, my baby

1376
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:29,840
Speaker 1: was stolen. If you have given your baby away and

1377
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:32,360
Speaker 1: you've been compensated for it, like yeah, that's all I

1378
01:13:32,760 --> 01:13:35,439
Speaker 1: personally like not to be judge or whatever, like I

1379
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:39,720
Speaker 1: think that's weird, but but I mean, people do it

1380
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:41,960
Speaker 1: and then like, but why go that extra mile of

1381
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:47,479
Speaker 1: calling the cops, because I would say, because that sours

1382
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:49,880
Speaker 1: the deal. Well, you know, it's just like what it

1383
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:52,479
Speaker 1: does make your best These people have adopted a baby

1384
01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:55,000
Speaker 1: which was is now hot. That does that. But on

1385
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:58,080
Speaker 1: the other hand, you've got this five month old baby

1386
01:13:58,479 --> 01:14:00,720
Speaker 1: you told all your friends know about, a family knows

1387
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:02,760
Speaker 1: about it, everybody knows about it, and you gotta say,

1388
01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:05,240
Speaker 1: I gotta tell them, hey, we just decided we couldn't

1389
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:07,599
Speaker 1: afford it, so we gave her up for adoption. You're

1390
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:10,960
Speaker 1: probably sort of sort of you know, you know, like

1391
01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:13,280
Speaker 1: sort of elite over that part about how you got

1392
01:14:13,320 --> 01:14:15,639
Speaker 1: paid money for it. But that's a huge I mean

1393
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:17,559
Speaker 1: that would be I mean, that would be something. I mean,

1394
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:20,120
Speaker 1: can you imagine what your parents would say if you

1395
01:14:20,280 --> 01:14:22,200
Speaker 1: had a five month old baby and you want to

1396
01:14:22,200 --> 01:14:24,600
Speaker 1: them and said, hey, I got rid of the baby. Yeah, totally, no,

1397
01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:29,080
Speaker 1: I totally I understand that concept. But also like, this

1398
01:14:29,320 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 1: is a lot of attention to draw to that. Yeah,

1399
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:33,400
Speaker 1: I know, it's it's a big sacrifice to make. And

1400
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:36,840
Speaker 1: the thing is, I'm sure that you guys have heard

1401
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:41,080
Speaker 1: the same snippets of the calls I have where Steve

1402
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:44,000
Speaker 1: was on the call and Marlene is in the background

1403
01:14:44,479 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 1: on the phone with her mom. She is losing her mind.

1404
01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:58,679
Speaker 1: She is not rational, She is very wound up. If

1405
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:04,280
Speaker 1: you have just sold your child, that is not what

1406
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:07,800
Speaker 1: you would be like to Again, I understand I sound

1407
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:10,360
Speaker 1: like I'm on their side and it's not intentional, but

1408
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:14,560
Speaker 1: she sounds so effing sincere to me that I'm just like,

1409
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:17,479
Speaker 1: there's I don't see how that's really I think. I

1410
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:21,679
Speaker 1: think our last theory is the best of the theories,

1411
01:15:22,040 --> 01:15:24,160
Speaker 1: um which we think we should get onto. You want

1412
01:15:24,200 --> 01:15:26,680
Speaker 1: to hear that, well, I don't, but we should talk

1413
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:30,960
Speaker 1: about it anyway. Yeah, now, okay, Yeah, the sold theory

1414
01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:34,040
Speaker 1: is I don't know not that great. But my last

1415
01:15:34,120 --> 01:15:38,439
Speaker 1: theory is that one of Sabrina's siblings killed her on accident, right,

1416
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 1: I mean or not? Who knows? You know, this thing

1417
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:43,240
Speaker 1: is not as unusual as you think. I did to

1418
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:46,320
Speaker 1: quit Google, and here's some of the headlines that I found.

1419
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:51,960
Speaker 1: So is this uh infanticide? That the phrase? That? Is

1420
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:57,160
Speaker 1: that the correct phrase? There? Now? Now it's something else

1421
01:15:57,240 --> 01:15:59,040
Speaker 1: when you when you kill your sibling. I can't remember

1422
01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:03,639
Speaker 1: the exact word silicide. I did well side. I think

1423
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:05,640
Speaker 1: that's a side. You're right? Uh, I actually did this

1424
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:09,080
Speaker 1: good job? And really that creached me up. I gotta

1425
01:16:09,120 --> 01:16:12,240
Speaker 1: call your brother. Yeah. I actually the search string that

1426
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:14,480
Speaker 1: I used was how often her baby is killed by siblings?

1427
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:16,599
Speaker 1: And here here's some of the headlights that came back

1428
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:19,479
Speaker 1: at me. These are all recent stories. Uh see you

1429
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:23,439
Speaker 1: from Chicago. I don't no excuse me no, this is Florida.

1430
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:26,920
Speaker 1: Two weeks old killed by six year old brother. Mother charged.

1431
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:31,479
Speaker 1: Next one from the UK. Boy twelve stab baby brother

1432
01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:35,360
Speaker 1: to death from Rochester, New York police say six year

1433
01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:39,800
Speaker 1: old boy killed three year old brother Houston todd This

1434
01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:42,240
Speaker 1: is the most gruesome with the bunch. Toddler dies after

1435
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:45,479
Speaker 1: older siblings put her enough and turned it on. I

1436
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:50,680
Speaker 1: really disturbed that Joe screen printed a Google search and

1437
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:56,280
Speaker 1: that's what I recently heard the oven story. Yeah, that's

1438
01:16:56,320 --> 01:17:00,360
Speaker 1: pretty gruesome. It is, and it was I believe it

1439
01:17:00,479 --> 01:17:02,760
Speaker 1: was something like they just they wanted to keep the

1440
01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:05,519
Speaker 1: kid warm. It was chilly, and they didn't know how

1441
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:07,080
Speaker 1: to keep her warm, so they were like, get in

1442
01:17:07,120 --> 01:17:10,040
Speaker 1: the oven. But their kids and they didn't get it.

1443
01:17:10,280 --> 01:17:13,479
Speaker 1: And the implications their parents left them alone, like the

1444
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:15,519
Speaker 1: six year old was in charge of the two like

1445
01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:18,200
Speaker 1: younger ones like what are you doing? You know? I

1446
01:17:18,240 --> 01:17:22,200
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't I personally would not underestimate the

1447
01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:25,560
Speaker 1: molevlens of children, no, but they don't understand the permanence.

1448
01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:31,479
Speaker 1: Was also wouldn't underestimate the silliness. And I used the

1449
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:34,960
Speaker 1: word silliness because that's the way children's brains work is

1450
01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:39,679
Speaker 1: everything is silly. I once lit a string on fire,

1451
01:17:40,320 --> 01:17:43,439
Speaker 1: thinking that it was like the fuse I watched in

1452
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:47,160
Speaker 1: the cartoon. It was gonna go and run down to

1453
01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:49,719
Speaker 1: the thing that was blow it, and instead the fire

1454
01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:54,120
Speaker 1: ran up and burned my hand. And I couldn't understand

1455
01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:59,400
Speaker 1: why that happened. But that's that's the basic brain function.

1456
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:01,439
Speaker 1: That's something every kid has to learn, is that, like

1457
01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:04,679
Speaker 1: the stuff that goes on in cartoons and stuff, doesn't

1458
01:18:04,720 --> 01:18:06,479
Speaker 1: really work that way in real life. But we see

1459
01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:08,360
Speaker 1: it all the time. They see I still see that

1460
01:18:08,400 --> 01:18:11,519
Speaker 1: cramp all the time, and so I get it. And

1461
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:15,320
Speaker 1: here's the thing about about kids, And because I've heard it.

1462
01:18:15,520 --> 01:18:18,040
Speaker 1: Besides these cases I just mentioned, I've heard of other

1463
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:23,720
Speaker 1: cases to siblings murdering the newborn baby because well, here

1464
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:25,960
Speaker 1: comes the newborn baby and suddenly, you know, I'm not

1465
01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:29,000
Speaker 1: the center of attention, I'm not star anymore, and suddenly

1466
01:18:29,040 --> 01:18:33,600
Speaker 1: everybody's queuing over the baby. That provokes resentment, and sometimes

1467
01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:37,040
Speaker 1: not not often, but sometimes it provokes, you know, some

1468
01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:40,960
Speaker 1: sort of murderous thing, and the kids don't realize that

1469
01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:45,400
Speaker 1: maybe this is an irrevocable thing, like you said, yeah,

1470
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:48,320
Speaker 1: and you know, they just don't realize that. Yeah. And

1471
01:18:48,560 --> 01:18:51,000
Speaker 1: and of course there's also the cartoon violence aspect of

1472
01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:54,639
Speaker 1: it too, which is like you know, Tom and Jerry exactly,

1473
01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:56,920
Speaker 1: because you see that when you're a little kid, and

1474
01:18:57,520 --> 01:18:59,679
Speaker 1: you see that stuff in the cartoons, and the mouse

1475
01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:02,439
Speaker 1: claws a cat and chaos a cat. But then the

1476
01:19:02,479 --> 01:19:04,360
Speaker 1: cat's back and a whole and safe and fine and

1477
01:19:04,439 --> 01:19:07,040
Speaker 1: sound looking for revenge and you know, moments later, and

1478
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:10,280
Speaker 1: or even worse. There's I remember the Tom and Jerry

1479
01:19:10,360 --> 01:19:13,799
Speaker 1: cartoons where they would club the cat or the mouse

1480
01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:15,880
Speaker 1: and they would get their wings. They go up to

1481
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:17,880
Speaker 1: heaven and they'd run around and then they would just

1482
01:19:18,040 --> 01:19:21,800
Speaker 1: slap back down in their body, which means, hey, you

1483
01:19:21,880 --> 01:19:26,000
Speaker 1: can come back. It's totally okay, come back, come back. Yeah,

1484
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:29,400
Speaker 1: you know, so you know, the kids could have it

1485
01:19:29,439 --> 01:19:33,759
Speaker 1: could have been motivated by you know, really resentment, jealousy,

1486
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:38,080
Speaker 1: which or just complete total accidental misunderstanding. It could have been. Yeah,

1487
01:19:38,160 --> 01:19:40,680
Speaker 1: but that would be It could have been an accident too.

1488
01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:42,360
Speaker 1: I mean it could have been it could have been

1489
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:44,920
Speaker 1: like well, it could have been a sort of combined accident,

1490
01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:48,200
Speaker 1: like like again cautious, cautious a kid with a with

1491
01:19:48,320 --> 01:19:51,400
Speaker 1: a brick, thinking like, hey, it's a cartoons thing, you know,

1492
01:19:51,640 --> 01:19:55,320
Speaker 1: it's like and it goes bunk, and even thinking something

1493
01:19:55,400 --> 01:19:58,280
Speaker 1: even less malicious, right like um, so you know eight

1494
01:19:58,360 --> 01:20:00,920
Speaker 1: year old William creeps into the Brina's. By the way,

1495
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:02,800
Speaker 1: we're not we're not blaming the child, No, no, no,

1496
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:06,080
Speaker 1: I don't blame any of them. We're just right. I'm

1497
01:20:06,160 --> 01:20:09,280
Speaker 1: just saying. So, like he creeps in and she looks

1498
01:20:09,320 --> 01:20:11,479
Speaker 1: like she might be cold, so he puts like an

1499
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:15,679
Speaker 1: extra blanket over her and covers her face. Right, she's

1500
01:20:15,880 --> 01:20:20,600
Speaker 1: five months old, get out totally suffocates. Right, that's not like,

1501
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:23,680
Speaker 1: that's not even a little malicious. Right, It's just an

1502
01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:27,280
Speaker 1: error of judgment because he's eight, right, and so like

1503
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:30,839
Speaker 1: something like that can also happen where it's just suddenly.

1504
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:33,720
Speaker 1: But that to me would be if you walked in

1505
01:20:33,880 --> 01:20:37,040
Speaker 1: and there was a blanket over the baby's face and

1506
01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:42,479
Speaker 1: the baby is now dead. I could easily see somebody

1507
01:20:42,640 --> 01:20:48,560
Speaker 1: saying it sid's sudden infant death syndrome, like it's it's not.

1508
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:52,559
Speaker 1: It would be a stretch for the parents go oh, William,

1509
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:55,000
Speaker 1: did you do this? Oh? Well this and so now

1510
01:20:55,080 --> 01:20:57,680
Speaker 1: we've had a dispose of you. Just say, William, just

1511
01:20:57,880 --> 01:21:00,200
Speaker 1: don't say anything. The doctor is going to come of her,

1512
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:03,320
Speaker 1: mommy and daddy. You're gonna cry and talk and do

1513
01:21:03,360 --> 01:21:04,680
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying here, I don't want to

1514
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:06,679
Speaker 1: I don't want to flush the whole thing national thought

1515
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:10,720
Speaker 1: when the last time you had a month against me.

1516
01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:12,320
Speaker 1: I'm just saying once the last time you had a

1517
01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:15,120
Speaker 1: five month old baby, and then to like undertenn I've

1518
01:21:15,160 --> 01:21:17,559
Speaker 1: never had a five month old babies. Like, there are

1519
01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:20,840
Speaker 1: some things that happened that you just don't. I think

1520
01:21:20,920 --> 01:21:22,880
Speaker 1: that if there if it was a case like that,

1521
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:24,880
Speaker 1: there were no signs of violence, they would have just

1522
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:27,360
Speaker 1: called the ambulance. And yeah, I mean I would think

1523
01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:30,800
Speaker 1: that too, But you know, I just I just a

1524
01:21:30,960 --> 01:21:34,880
Speaker 1: kid doing something on accident is not insane. I don't hear.

1525
01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:37,840
Speaker 1: But I think that there had to be some physical

1526
01:21:38,040 --> 01:21:40,240
Speaker 1: signs on the baby, which is one of the problems

1527
01:21:40,400 --> 01:21:44,280
Speaker 1: because there's all this you guys have seen this. There's

1528
01:21:44,360 --> 01:21:50,120
Speaker 1: all these this enhanced or adjusted imagery stuff that shows

1529
01:21:50,439 --> 01:21:54,519
Speaker 1: images of Sabrina days before her disappearance was what looks

1530
01:21:54,600 --> 01:22:01,720
Speaker 1: like marks on her. And that is just so it

1531
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:06,680
Speaker 1: is so bad because that that could be anything, that

1532
01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:10,160
Speaker 1: could be bad lighting, because somebody is now adjusting the

1533
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:14,640
Speaker 1: photo to call out you know, marks and whatnot. It's

1534
01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:19,320
Speaker 1: like remember the the YouTube star. Yes, the dispute was

1535
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:22,240
Speaker 1: like two months ago from when we're recording, two or

1536
01:22:22,280 --> 01:22:24,960
Speaker 1: three months ago, and everybody was like taking stills of

1537
01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:28,479
Speaker 1: her and then running filters on it and suddenly she

1538
01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:31,320
Speaker 1: had all these marks on her body. Is like, well,

1539
01:22:31,400 --> 01:22:34,120
Speaker 1: it's just different lighting that you ran through something and

1540
01:22:34,240 --> 01:22:40,280
Speaker 1: it showed up different. That doesn't matter. Yeah, but it's

1541
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:42,080
Speaker 1: it's the same thing. It's like people say, well, she

1542
01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:46,720
Speaker 1: obviously was bruised and using her she wasn't. Now I'm

1543
01:22:46,760 --> 01:22:49,479
Speaker 1: going to get off by soapar Yeah. I think I

1544
01:22:49,560 --> 01:22:52,200
Speaker 1: have defended these parents enough. No, no, I think I

1545
01:22:52,320 --> 01:22:54,720
Speaker 1: think they can't help it. I think that maybe what

1546
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:58,280
Speaker 1: they were doing was something as understandable is not wanting

1547
01:22:58,400 --> 01:23:01,559
Speaker 1: to destroy and before one of the children's lives because

1548
01:23:01,720 --> 01:23:05,400
Speaker 1: something horrible happen, and maybe the kid wasn't terrible human being.

1549
01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:08,000
Speaker 1: And I got I gotta say, you know, I've never

1550
01:23:08,160 --> 01:23:10,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I've never followed up one of these stories.

1551
01:23:10,320 --> 01:23:13,320
Speaker 1: But for eight For let's say, a six year old

1552
01:23:13,439 --> 01:23:17,519
Speaker 1: or an eight year old who doesn't mean to cause

1553
01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:21,799
Speaker 1: the permanent harm of taking the life of their other sibling,

1554
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:26,200
Speaker 1: I mean, they have to go through counseling and stuff

1555
01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:29,960
Speaker 1: like that, But it's not as if they are labeled

1556
01:23:30,360 --> 01:23:33,840
Speaker 1: a sibling killer and then followed for the rest of

1557
01:23:33,880 --> 01:23:35,800
Speaker 1: their life. Now, no, no, it's not not like that.

1558
01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:38,760
Speaker 1: But it's just I think that they maybe felt like

1559
01:23:38,920 --> 01:23:46,840
Speaker 1: if say, I think they're all give him the chair. No, no,

1560
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:48,920
Speaker 1: of course not. I mean you can't if you can't

1561
01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:51,400
Speaker 1: really say that an eight year old or a four

1562
01:23:51,439 --> 01:23:54,160
Speaker 1: year old can even form criminal intent. I mean you

1563
01:23:54,280 --> 01:23:57,000
Speaker 1: really can't say that. So obviously they're not going to

1564
01:23:57,080 --> 01:23:59,240
Speaker 1: haul them away. I actually I think eight is like

1565
01:23:59,320 --> 01:24:01,679
Speaker 1: when they start, and that would be that it would

1566
01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:04,000
Speaker 1: be like, you know, William would have been the one

1567
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:09,840
Speaker 1: when they start and implement to her and physically. But

1568
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:12,040
Speaker 1: then they and they have to like, you know, prove

1569
01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:15,600
Speaker 1: that it was you know, premeditated and like understood what

1570
01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:17,560
Speaker 1: he did. And that's when they start being able to

1571
01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:20,120
Speaker 1: do that. But I mean, I don't think it was intentional.

1572
01:24:20,200 --> 01:24:23,160
Speaker 1: But I also but I also don't know that as

1573
01:24:23,200 --> 01:24:26,400
Speaker 1: a parent, I would trust that system right now. I

1574
01:24:26,439 --> 01:24:29,599
Speaker 1: would want to keep it quiet. I think, Yeah, okay,

1575
01:24:29,680 --> 01:24:32,200
Speaker 1: do you guys have any more theories? Yeah? Without yeah,

1576
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:34,880
Speaker 1: without taking this any farther. I mean, I really feel

1577
01:24:34,920 --> 01:24:36,519
Speaker 1: like we've taken all of the tread off of this

1578
01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:41,439
Speaker 1: pretty much. Yeah, pretty much. But yeah, so I mean

1579
01:24:41,479 --> 01:24:44,160
Speaker 1: the parents, I think knew something. I don't know if

1580
01:24:44,200 --> 01:24:46,559
Speaker 1: you guys are still believed that I think they knew something.

1581
01:24:47,360 --> 01:24:51,479
Speaker 1: Their motives of might not might not have been entirely

1582
01:24:52,160 --> 01:24:54,639
Speaker 1: entirely heinous. You know, maybe they were, maybe they would

1583
01:24:54,640 --> 01:24:58,479
Speaker 1: maybe they totally murder, but not necessarily. I think it

1584
01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:01,200
Speaker 1: was alien abduction. That it's a good one too. Yeah.

1585
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:04,760
Speaker 1: I still think that she's worried about if she's day

1586
01:25:04,800 --> 01:25:07,640
Speaker 1: Bobby Johnson. But that's just me because Bobby Johnson, that

1587
01:25:07,760 --> 01:25:10,120
Speaker 1: kid needs a haircut, So of course she should be

1588
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:16,160
Speaker 1: worried about dating that guy. Okay, there's Bobby Johnson, that boy, terrible,

1589
01:25:16,320 --> 01:25:21,160
Speaker 1: terrible boy. Okay, it's time for a little housekeeping here. Well,

1590
01:25:21,240 --> 01:25:23,080
Speaker 1: you probably wonder if we have a website. Well, we

1591
01:25:23,200 --> 01:25:28,879
Speaker 1: do find it. It took a while, but yeah, I know, finally,

1592
01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:33,559
Speaker 1: but it's called Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. You can

1593
01:25:33,560 --> 01:25:36,519
Speaker 1: find us, of course, on Itune, you can stream us

1594
01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:40,439
Speaker 1: to billions of websites, and of course it's Google play

1595
01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:44,080
Speaker 1: uh in all these places. If you can subscribe, give

1596
01:25:44,160 --> 01:25:46,400
Speaker 1: us a rating, give us a review, a really nice

1597
01:25:46,439 --> 01:25:49,760
Speaker 1: review that we like those better. Uh. Facebook, we have

1598
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:52,960
Speaker 1: a group plus a page, and we're on Twitter. We're

1599
01:25:53,120 --> 01:25:57,640
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways without the g letus. I've read it Thinking Sideways, uh,

1600
01:25:57,840 --> 01:25:59,479
Speaker 1: and you'll find that I've read it on read it

1601
01:25:59,560 --> 01:26:02,479
Speaker 1: of all pass uh. And we have email of course

1602
01:26:03,080 --> 01:26:07,280
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail dot com. So if you

1603
01:26:07,320 --> 01:26:09,240
Speaker 1: have thoughts, you want to suggest an episode, you want

1604
01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:11,360
Speaker 1: to just tell us how much you love us, um

1605
01:26:11,640 --> 01:26:13,920
Speaker 1: drop us an email. Uh. And of course if you

1606
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:16,519
Speaker 1: want to support the show you can. You can get

1607
01:26:16,600 --> 01:26:19,519
Speaker 1: support us on Patreon that's p A t R e

1608
01:26:19,680 --> 01:26:24,000
Speaker 1: O N Patreon dot com uh slash Thinking Sideways where

1609
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:27,040
Speaker 1: you can pledge money, like it's like pledge a block

1610
01:26:27,080 --> 01:26:29,160
Speaker 1: an episode or whatever. But you will be dinged every

1611
01:26:29,320 --> 01:26:30,760
Speaker 1: you know, so I don't think it's the one time thing.

1612
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:36,320
Speaker 1: You get dinged every episode. Yeah, man, of course, you

1613
01:26:36,400 --> 01:26:38,479
Speaker 1: know it's totally optional. You don't have to do that

1614
01:26:38,560 --> 01:26:41,760
Speaker 1: at all. There's a lot of people who don't contribute

1615
01:26:41,840 --> 01:26:46,600
Speaker 1: financially and that's totally cool. It's not a requirement. We

1616
01:26:46,760 --> 01:26:49,840
Speaker 1: appreciate it, but it's not a requirement for everybody who's

1617
01:26:49,880 --> 01:26:54,639
Speaker 1: doing it. Thank you for being being willing to do so. Yeah,

1618
01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:56,960
Speaker 1: it's awesome. I mean, if you're not recontributing, try we'll

1619
01:26:57,000 --> 01:26:58,760
Speaker 1: try to do something out there, like you know, have

1620
01:26:58,840 --> 01:27:01,320
Speaker 1: a blog of your own. Don't talk about unsolved mysteries,

1621
01:27:01,360 --> 01:27:02,840
Speaker 1: but have a blog and I want to talk about

1622
01:27:03,800 --> 01:27:07,840
Speaker 1: don't steal our thunout. Yeah, you know, contribute to the

1623
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:11,360
Speaker 1: content of the internet, you know. And besides Patreon, of

1624
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:12,800
Speaker 1: course you want if you want to support us, there's

1625
01:27:12,800 --> 01:27:14,559
Speaker 1: also merch You can go to a website and buy

1626
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:17,360
Speaker 1: all kinds of cool stuff like mugs and t shirts

1627
01:27:17,400 --> 01:27:20,760
Speaker 1: and working on new new stickers and the thing was

1628
01:27:20,840 --> 01:27:24,800
Speaker 1: an epic failure, so I'm I'm working on stickers again. Okay, yeah,

1629
01:27:24,840 --> 01:27:28,439
Speaker 1: we'll come up with more cool stuff. And last of all,

1630
01:27:28,439 --> 01:27:30,040
Speaker 1: of course, there's PayPal. You can make a one time

1631
01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:34,439
Speaker 1: contribution on PayPal and again totally optional. So that's about it.

1632
01:27:35,200 --> 01:27:38,679
Speaker 1: We're done with this mystery and until next week it's

1633
01:27:39,320 --> 01:27:40,559
Speaker 1: um chow by