1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. Chuck here curating a specially hen picked selected 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:11,120 Speaker 1: episode and this one's from May twenty eighteen, and boy, 3 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: oh boy, this is a good one. I forgot all 4 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: about this. And this is part of our true crime 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: series Not so Grizzly as far as like you know. 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: It's not about an axe murder or anything like that. 7 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 1: It's about a heist and I'd love me some heist. 8 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 1: And this is called the color Bomb Heist. Welcome to 9 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 10 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with 11 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 2: Charles W. Chuck Bryant and Jerry's over there, and this 12 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 2: is Stuff you Should Know, the True Crime edition again. 13 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, we've done a few of these, right. 14 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 2: True crime is so hot right now? 15 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: Hey man, we were dabbling on the periphery of true 16 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: crime when most of these people were wet in their diapers. 17 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 2: That's right, man, that is right. I'm glad somebody finally 18 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 2: said it. 19 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: We were occasionally doing a poor job of covering true 20 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: crime ten years ago. 21 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 2: That's right. We're gonna do it again. 22 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: Right, we continue that great rich history. 23 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, because true crime can be extraordinarily interesting, especially when 24 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 2: you're talking about an extraordinarily over complicated heist that results 25 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 2: in a man's bizarre death, death by bizarre means, and 26 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 2: involves what really ultimately, you could make a case as 27 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 2: an unsolved mystery still today, even though it's technically bureaucratically 28 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 2: been solved. A lot of people say, no, this thing 29 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 2: hasn't been solved yet. 30 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: Got homemade bombs, you got a scavenger hunt, got a cracked. 31 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 2: Dealer, well, you got to have a cracked dealer. 32 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: Got prostitutes, goet pizza. 33 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 2: And yeah, and let's start with the pizza. 34 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: Geo metro right, which, by the way, I just wanted 35 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: to point out ahead of time, there is no more 36 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: pizza delivery car two thousand and three than a geometro. 37 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 2: A teal one, no less. 38 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, the thing is, it's almost like they rolled them 39 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: right off the line in two thousand and three with 40 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: just straight to a pizza plates. 41 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 2: With the pizza guy inside already. 42 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the little sign magneted on top of. 43 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 2: It a little crooked yep. So the whole thing does 44 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 2: start actually with a pizza guy, a pizza place, and 45 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,679 Speaker 2: a teal Geo Metro, And like you said, the whole 46 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 2: thing starts in two thousand and three in Erie, Pennsylvania, 47 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 2: and there was a and still is I looked it up. 48 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 2: There's a pizza place called Mama MIA's Pizza Rhea and 49 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 2: on the nose, but fine, sure it gets the job 50 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 2: done right. And at about two pm on August twenty eighth, 51 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 2: two thousand and three, a pizza delivery guy named Brian Wells, 52 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 2: I think he was forty six at the time. He 53 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 2: was about to end his morning shift when a call 54 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 2: came in for two small sausage and pepperoni pizzas and 55 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 2: the delivery was I guess the opposite way of where 56 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 2: Brian Wells was going to go on his way home. 57 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 2: But he said, you know what, I'll take this one 58 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 2: last order and he walked out the door at about 59 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 2: two and the next time that Brian Wells was seen 60 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 2: in public again, he was entering a PNC bank branch 61 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 2: just down the street from his pizza place, a few 62 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 2: miles up the road. And he looked a lot different 63 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 2: than he did when he left the pizza parlor about 64 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 2: twenty eight minutes earlier. 65 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, so, first of all, he was walking with a cane, 66 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: kind of a funny looking cane, and then under his 67 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: shirt he had clearly and if you've seen the footage 68 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: and the photos, you can see warning by the way, 69 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: for video, it's yeah, for the future, it's quite graphic. 70 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 2: It's out there, but it is out there. 71 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: But he had clearly some large, boxy looking thing. It 72 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: looked like he was wearing a shoe box around his 73 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: neck with a T shirt pulled over it. 74 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 2: Kind of but in the teller at the bank's defense, 75 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: could have been an artificial torso and she probably didn't 76 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 2: want to draw attention to it. 77 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 1: Yes, she was being very kind, right. 78 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 2: So one thing I want to point out too, there's 79 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 2: already discrepancy what we're like a minute into the story, 80 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 2: and there's already a discrepancy that shirt he was wearing 81 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 2: over that boxy thing underneath his shirt say guess on it. 82 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 2: And I've seen that it was written somehow, like in 83 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 2: spray paint or marker, or that it was an actual 84 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 2: guest Jeans T shirt. 85 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: H really so either an officially license or not licensed 86 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:04,679 Speaker 1: whatever brand shirt or a homemade, janky spray painted version. 87 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you look, the pictures don't really show 88 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 2: one way or another. Yeah, it looks more like it's homemade. 89 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 2: And I looked up to see if there was a 90 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 2: guest shirt that, you know, if I could find the 91 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 2: actual guest shirt. It wasn't. Couldn't, so I think it 92 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 2: may have been homemade. Regardless. He's wearing this shirt that 93 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 2: says guests on and he walks up to the teller 94 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 2: and he hands the teller a note, and the note says, 95 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 2: I have a bomb. Get everybody who has access codes 96 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 2: to the safe together and put two hundred and fifty 97 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 2: thousand dollars into a bag and bring it to me. 98 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 2: I think he said, you have fifteen minutes to do. 99 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: This, yeah, which kind of a long time if you're 100 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: a bank robber. 101 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 2: It is. It's like almost like luxurious around the time. 102 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,039 Speaker 1: What it said, like sixty seconds. 103 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, or this should have happened yesterday. Chop chop, right. 104 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 2: So he he stands back and waits, apparently grabs a 105 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 2: dumb dumb lollipop out of the little basket while he's waiting, 106 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 2: because why not. And the teller says, sir, we don't 107 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 2: have like we can't get into the safe. That's just 108 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 2: not how things work. I'm sorry, but as a consolation prize, 109 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 2: I'm going to put eighty seven hundred and two dollars 110 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 2: into a bag for you right here and send you 111 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 2: on your way. Okay. 112 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, and importantly we did not mention he lifted his 113 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: shirt up and showed this teller right this this bomb, 114 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: this what's called a collar bomb, strapped around his neck. 115 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 2: Right. So he walks out of the bank a free man. 116 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 2: And the next time that he's seen in public is 117 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 2: about fifteen minutes later, and he's seen in public by 118 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 2: some Pennsylvania State troopers who are on the lookout for 119 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 2: this guy. And he's still wearing that shirt, he's still 120 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 2: got the big bulge, and he's standing around his geometro 121 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 2: parked in a parking lot that is actually shared with 122 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 2: that PNC bank and the McDonald's. And he's in a 123 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 2: parking lot right there. So he left the bank robbery 124 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 2: and went about one hundred to two hundred feet away 125 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 2: from it, and that's where he was found like a 126 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,359 Speaker 2: full fifteen minutes later. Yeah. 127 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: So these these these kappas, these troopers come over and 128 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: he says, hey, guys, this is a bomb around my neck. 129 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: A group of a group of black men chained this 130 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: bomb around my neck at gunpoint, forced me to rob 131 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: this bank for them. I'm not gonna I'm not lying here. 132 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: This thing is gonna go off. So the cops call 133 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: the bomb squad, and they do. I saw, you know 134 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: his The family of Welles is still angry about the 135 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: fact that she says they did nothing to save them. 136 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 2: But I would be too. 137 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 1: By the way, we should, shout out Wired magazine. 138 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 2: Oh yes, we really really should. 139 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: A lot of this came from a great, heavily researched 140 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: story by Rich Shapiro from about eight years ago, called 141 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: the Incredible True Story of the Color Bomb Heights. So 142 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: thank you Rich for your work. But the dude's on 143 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: the ground said, I mean, I kind of remember this happening, 144 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: because when I went and looked at the still images, 145 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: I was like, wait a minute, I've seen this right, Yeah, 146 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: And it's this guy sitting on the ground with this 147 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: thing around his neck, kind of just waiting, seated on 148 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: the pavement for about twenty five minutes. He says, very interestingly, 149 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: like did you call my boss at the pizza place? 150 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, this bomb starts beeping fast, 151 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: which is never a good sign. And when I was 152 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: reading the story, I thought, well, that's just a ruse. 153 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: But no, this thing detonated and killed him. It blasted 154 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: a hole in his chest. It did not blow his 155 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: head off like the internet says. No, But it was 156 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: a violent, awful death. 157 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was, and it was pretty quick. And then 158 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 2: three minutes after the bomb goes off, the bomb squad 159 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:03,839 Speaker 2: showed up. So he's dead. This guy, Brian Wells is dead. 160 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 2: And the whole time he was protesting, he's like, you know, 161 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 2: this is I was forced to rob the bank. Are 162 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 2: you guys going to get this off of me or what? Yeah, 163 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 2: he said something like did you call my boss? Because 164 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 2: apparently he was a very loyal employee. He'd been working 165 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 2: at Mamma MIA's for how long, like ten years or 166 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 2: something like that, for years and years, and he'd only 167 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 2: called in late once, not even sick late, once when 168 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 2: his cat died, said Rich Shapiro in that Wired article. 169 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 2: So it seemed like he actually was telling the truth 170 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 2: that he had been abducted and forced to rob the 171 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 2: bank and then had been a victim. I think the 172 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 2: bomb going off really kind of put an exclamation point 173 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 2: on his story that he was not a willing participant 174 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 2: in this, right. 175 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, So the cops obviously check out that geo metro 176 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: and it's sweet, sweet styling, and they saw his cane 177 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: and there turns out the reason why Cain was funny 178 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: looking is because it was also a gun. 179 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 2: And it really looks a lot like a gun. 180 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: Yeah when you when you look at it, the bomb 181 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: was clearly homemade. I had a couple of different parts 182 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: to it. It was this this banded metal collar that 183 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 1: he wore around his neck. It was like locked to 184 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: his neck, had four key holes, and then a combination lock. 185 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 2: It was really locked to his neck. 186 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: And then an iron box with two pipe bombs loaded 187 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: up ready to go. And then interestingly, and this will 188 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: figure put a pin in this one because this will 189 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: figure in the in the case later. It had two 190 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: kitchen timers in there in addition to an elect an 191 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: electronic countdown timer yeah. 192 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 2: Which was I guess the thing that started beeping faster 193 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 2: and faster. 194 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 1: Yeah. And then some decoy wires. You always got to 195 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: have those if you're if you're making a bomb. 196 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 2: Sure, but I mean, like that's pretty smart. So there's 197 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 2: decoy wires that were apparently also stickers that said like 198 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 2: don't do it or you know, skull and crossbones or 199 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 2: rat pois and whatever, getty and sweet. Yeah, and oh 200 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: that's a good nine to five reference. 201 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: I just saw that the other night. 202 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 2: So it was a it was a homemade bomb, but 203 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 2: it was by all accounts a well made bomb too, 204 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 2: and it worked, which I think is one of the 205 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 2: big the big questions about any homemade bomb is whether 206 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 2: it will actually work or not. And this one worked. 207 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 2: It's with deadly effect, that's right. 208 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: So the most important thing they found in this car, though, 209 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: were some letters, some handwritten notes addressed to bomb hostage. 210 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: So one of them said, I mean, these were instructions 211 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: basically on what this guy should do, which further kind 212 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: of cemented like, hey, this guy's probably telling the truth. 213 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,839 Speaker 1: It said, yeah, go rob this bank of two hundred 214 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 1: and fifty grand, and then very strangely outlined this little 215 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: scavenger hunt basically to where eventually you will land upon 216 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: the keys to in common nation to get you out 217 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 1: of this thing by going all over town and finding 218 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: these various hidden notes, and at the last note you 219 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: will you will be able to free yourself. 220 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, the last one will give you the keys and 221 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 2: the combination. But you better hurry because you have a 222 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 2: limited amount of time. If you stop and think you're 223 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 2: going to waste time, you're going to die. We can 224 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 2: detonate this remotely, and we're going to be following you. 225 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 2: It was written pretty crazily. Have you read any of 226 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 2: the note? Oh yeah, yeah, So like it's it's got 227 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 2: a lot of like just like a lot of jump 228 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 2: jump cuts and or jump scares in it, you know, 229 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 2: like you'll it's like go do this and and then 230 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 2: go do that after that, and then don't try anything funny. 231 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 2: We're gonna blow you up, you know. Yeah, it has 232 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 2: those every once in a while. And there's drawings in 233 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 2: there of where he could find like like the notes 234 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 2: and all that. So that he made it as far 235 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 2: as the first note, which was McDonald's. It was in 236 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 2: that that McDonald's that shared a parking lot with the 237 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 2: P and C Bank. That was where the first note was. 238 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 2: So he made it to that that McDonald's grab that note, 239 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 2: and that note was directing him out of town to 240 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 2: another note, and he didn't make it that far. But 241 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 2: when the cops caught up with him. 242 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, so the scavenger hunt was, like you said, he 243 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: had gotten just to the one place so the cops 244 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: then say, well, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna 245 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 1: complete this scavenger hunt. 246 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 2: They were like, whoa, you just blew my mind. That's 247 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 2: some great policing. 248 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: Should we take a break? Sure, all right, scavenger hunt 249 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: is just started by the Kappas. We'll be right back. 250 00:13:59,000 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: All right, we're back. 251 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 2: So the scavenger hunt still on, Chuck, and they make it. 252 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:09,439 Speaker 2: The cops follow from the note that Brian Wells had 253 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,199 Speaker 2: to the next clue, and they found the next note 254 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 2: and that directed them to another place even further out 255 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 2: of town to where they found the jar where the 256 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 2: note was supposed to be. But the note was gone. 257 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they don't really know what that means. They 258 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: didn't know if it was just something to keep them 259 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: busy preoccupied. They didn't know if the person who was 260 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: designing this scavenger hunt got interrupted or knew that the 261 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: cops were around and they were doing it sort of 262 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: in real time. But at any rate, unfortunately, this scavenger 263 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: hunt just kind of pizzled out. Because that was kind 264 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: of a cool part of the story. 265 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, it really was. It was like, it's one of 266 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 2: the things that makes this just an incredibly bizarre crime. Yeah, 267 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 2: why the scavenger hunt, It's going to keep coming up 268 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 2: again and again. Right, So, when the scavenger hunt ran out, 269 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 2: the trail actually went cold. The case started to get 270 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 2: cold for a few months. The cops sniffed around Brian Wells, 271 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 2: tried to figure out, you know, why him, what happened 272 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 2: with him, And they went back to his place of 273 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 2: employment and they kind of checked out the kind of 274 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 2: person he was, right. 275 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, And they very smartly said, well, wait a minute, 276 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: why don't we why don't we check out what that 277 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: last delivery was supposed to be? There may be a 278 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: clue there. And it was an interesting place was at 279 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: the was you could only get there by dirt road 280 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: and it was right next to a TV transmission tower 281 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: in a kind of a remote wooded area, right, and 282 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: cops combed the area, found shoe prints that matched Wells. 283 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: They found those classic iconic geometro tire tracks that everyone 284 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: recognizes by sight. But there really weren't any more clues 285 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: as far as the cops were concerned at that location. 286 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: So where the cops had found a dead end, a 287 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: reporter and photographer for the Eerie Times News went and 288 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: did a little investiating his own and saw this house, 289 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: you know, next door where the pizza was delivered, and said, well, 290 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: you know, I'm just gonna go knock on the door. 291 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: This guy answers the door, and his name was Bill Rostein, 292 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: and he actually said, you know, you can look around 293 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: if you want. He's fifty nine years old, he's a handyman, 294 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: wasn't married, he'd lived there his whole life, and apparently 295 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: he seemed really smart, had a very articulate way of speaking, 296 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: and apparently was fluent in several different languages. And the 297 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: journalist kind of did a little poking around and didn't 298 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: really see much and took off, But he made contact 299 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: with Bill Rothstein. He's the first person that kind of 300 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: was went to. 301 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 2: Knocking, right, But nothing came of it, and the cops, 302 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 2: as far as I know, never went and met with 303 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 2: Bill Rothstein, even thoughse houses right next to the delivery 304 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 2: place where Wells was supposedly accosted. Right. Yeah, and then 305 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 2: a few like I said, the case is gone cold 306 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 2: by this time, A couple of months have gone by 307 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 2: the whole I mean, you've got this crime, this very 308 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 2: public caper that's captured the public's attention. A guy died 309 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 2: by being blown up while the while under police supervision. 310 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 2: And there's no leads, there's no nothing. And then finally, uh, 311 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 2: several weeks, a few months, I think after the call, 312 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 2: there's a nine to one one call from Bill Rothstein 313 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 2: and he tells the police that in his freezer he 314 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 2: has one of those serial killer chest freezers, there's actually 315 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 2: a body, a man's body, and that it was it 316 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,479 Speaker 2: is not someone he murdered, but he helped cover up 317 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 2: the murder of this man who was the boyfriend of 318 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 2: Bill Rothstein's ex girlfriend from way way back in the day. 319 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 2: And now the chain of events has been set off, right. 320 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: And if you're like me and you start hearing wife 321 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: of the ex girlfriend's dad's cousin, your brain gets a 322 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,640 Speaker 1: little jumbled. So just very plainly, he used to date 323 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: this woman. This woman called him up and said, hey, 324 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 1: I've murdered my current boyfriend or was it her husband? 325 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 2: It was her boyfriend, yeah, And she. 326 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 1: Said, and I need your help here. I blasted him 327 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: with a shotgun. And I know we tated, oh twenty 328 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: years ago, but will you come help me out? Because 329 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: they were still in contact, I guess they remained friends. 330 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 2: I guess. So in this rack. 331 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: To Bill Rosstein, apparently he thought about committing suicide. Apparently 332 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: there was even a note. They found a suicide note, 333 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 1: but he maintained, like you said, with the cops, that 334 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: he didn't have anything to do with anything but most 335 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 1: of the cleanup. 336 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,640 Speaker 2: The cleanup, getting rid of the murder weapon and then 337 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 2: holding onto the body. 338 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, but which the reason he held on the body 339 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: he was supposed to get apparently supposed to grind this 340 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: body up. And that's where he finally stopped short and 341 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: was like, Jesus, I can't do this. 342 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 2: And he said he told the cops that the reason 343 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 2: he called them finally was because since he wasn't going 344 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 2: through with grinding up the body, he was worried what 345 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,680 Speaker 2: this woman, Marjorie deal Armstrong was going to do to him. 346 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: He's like, I dated this lady, right, She's not a 347 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: nice person. 348 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 2: And so when he says Marjorie deal Armstrong to the 349 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 2: eerie cops, just alarm bells start going off because by 350 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 2: this time, already Marjorie deal Armstrong was a local legend 351 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 2: as far as criminals are concerned. She was this very 352 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 2: very bright woman who I think at the age of 353 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 2: thirty five back in the eighties, had been indicted for 354 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 2: killing one of her boyfriends, shot him six times. She 355 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 2: played that she had killed him in self defense, that 356 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 2: he was an abuser of her, and she was actually acquitted. 357 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 2: A few years after that, she was married to a 358 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 2: guy named Armstrong, and he showed up at the hospital 359 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 2: with a head trauma and actually died of a cerebral hemorrhage. 360 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 2: But there was no coroner's in quest or anything like that, 361 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 2: and so it just was something suspicious, you know, the 362 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 2: second second significant other of this woman to die under 363 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 2: suspicious or violent circumstances. So when Bill Rothstein said, I'm 364 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 2: worried about what Marjorie deal Armstrong is going to do 365 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 2: to me, the cops seemed to have taken it very seriously. 366 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: Well, extremely seriously, because the next day they arrested her. 367 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 2: That's pretty serious for murder. 368 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 1: And about a year and a half later, a little 369 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: short of that, she pled guilty but mentally ill. She 370 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: was sentenced to seven to twenty and then Rothstein, for 371 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: his part, eventually died of cancer in two thousand and four. 372 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 2: Right, and so you said that he had considered killing 373 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,479 Speaker 2: himself and even wrote a suicide note, right, Yeah, there 374 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 2: was something very very odd on Bill Rothstein's suicide note. 375 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 2: And again he didn't kill himself, he died of cancer, 376 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 2: but he was able to actually show the cops where 377 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 2: a suicide note was and they read it, and the 378 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 2: first line of it, from what I understand, was this 379 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 2: has nothing to do with the collar bomb heist or 380 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 2: the Brian Wells murder. 381 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a it's a weird thing to put if 382 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: you had nothing to do with that, you know. 383 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 2: Right, that's just a very odd thing to do. 384 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 1: It's like when the cops come in and you go, 385 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 1: there's nothing under the bed, don't don't there's no reason 386 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 1: to look there, right, They. 387 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,719 Speaker 2: Said, we just want to make sure your fire alarm 388 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 2: is working. Yeah, exactly, part of a community service. 389 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: Cool, but the bed's fine. 390 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 2: Right, So that is a very weird thing to say, 391 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 2: and that definitely piqud the interest of the cops. But 392 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 2: like you said, the cops convicted, or the state convicted 393 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 2: Marjorie deal Armstrong of the murder of James Roden or 394 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 2: Jim Roden. Right. Yeah, she's already in prison, and when 395 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 2: she's in prison, somehow this is what I'm unclear on 396 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 2: somehow it comes up or she starts talking or something 397 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 2: like that, that Jim Roden's death very much had to 398 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 2: do with the Wells case with Brian Wells murder, this 399 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 2: collar bomb heist, and that she knows a lot about it, 400 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 2: and if they'll transfer her to a minimum security prison 401 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 2: close to Eerie, she'll she'll start talking. 402 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, she has for the old Hannibal lecture treatment. 403 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 2: So is that how it came up, like she approached them, 404 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 2: because I'm unclear on that. 405 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: I mean, I think so. This is in the Wired article, 406 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: it said that that there was a phone call from 407 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: a state cop who had just met with her about 408 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: something unrelated, like a different homicide, and she just and 409 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: it kind of makes sense though now actually when we 410 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 1: as we will learn she talked a lot, Yeah, a lot. 411 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: So it doesn't surprise me that another cop was just 412 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,080 Speaker 1: meeting with her about something unrelated. She's like, bye, by 413 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: the way, that whole collar bomb thing, I got all 414 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: the skinny on that. 415 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 2: Right, So there's a couple of things going on here. 416 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 2: By then, by the time she calls the cops, the 417 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 2: cops have already spoken, apparently with several informants that have 418 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 2: shared cells with her or spent time with her in 419 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 2: jail already, who are saying like this lady is the 420 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 2: mastermind of that collar bomb heightst that's making you guys 421 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 2: look bad. 422 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and eventually, you know, when they met with her 423 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: about this, she admitted that she was involved, but well, 424 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 1: she didn't met she was involved in the plot, but 425 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: she said, I knew about it. I gave him, I 426 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: gave him those two kitchen timers, and I was really 427 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: close by when it happened. And by the way, the 428 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: guy who blew up with the collar bomb, mister Wells, 429 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: he was actually in on it too and Lostein headed 430 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: the whole thing up. 431 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 2: Right by for her, Deil Armstrong, she said, But I 432 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 2: had nothing to do with it. I had all these 433 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 2: other little things to do with it. I never met 434 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 2: Brian Wells. I didn't know Brian Wells. I had nothing 435 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,919 Speaker 2: to do with his death aside from supplying the kitchen 436 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 2: timers and knowing at it right exactly. So now it's 437 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 2: just getting weird, right because there's the Jim Roden murder, 438 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 2: who she says that she killed because he was abusing her, 439 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 2: who Rothstein said she killed over a dispute with money, 440 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 2: but is now she's saying is tied to the Wells case, 441 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 2: and which she knows a lot about but really nothing 442 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 2: about and had nothing to do with. So the cops 443 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 2: are like, well, let's just get this lad to talk 444 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 2: all we can. And one of the things they got 445 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 2: out of her was her she agreed to a tour 446 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,640 Speaker 2: around Eerie, showing them all these places where she had been, 447 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 2: and these were all places that were related to the crime. 448 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 2: Like I believe she said she'd been at the pizza 449 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 2: delivery site. I think she said she'd been within a 450 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 2: mile of the of the bank when it was robbed, 451 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 2: Like all of this stuff. She's just like, they just 452 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 2: keep giving her this rope and she's just wrapping it 453 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 2: around her neck again and again and again and then 454 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 2: finally chuck at the end of this car ride, after 455 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 2: she's been interviewing with the cops multiple times, giving him 456 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 2: tons of info, what does she say? 457 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: She asked for immunity at this point, after she had 458 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:29,959 Speaker 1: basically completely incriminated herself, and previous to all this, a 459 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: lot more happened. There were four different informants who had 460 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: come forward and said that this lady's been talking about 461 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: this for a while. She very much had everything to 462 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: do with it. And then a couple of months after 463 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: she had started talking to the Feds, another big break came. 464 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 1: This witness came forward and said, Hey, there's this crack 465 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 1: dealer named Kenny Barnes. That is a crack dealer's name, 466 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,679 Speaker 1: Kenneth Barnes, and he was involved. They used to go 467 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: fishing together. Armstrong deal Armstrong in Barnes, and she sang 468 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: like a canary to him basically, and said, here's what 469 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: she did. She her brother in law put him in 470 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: touch with Barnes while he was already in jail on 471 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: unrelated chart charges basically, And so Barnes was already in prison, 472 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: said hey, I think I can shorten my time, So 473 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 1: I'm going to try and get a reduced sentence at 474 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: least by spilling the beans on deal Armstrong. 475 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,239 Speaker 2: Right, And Barnes's brother in law was who turned him 476 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 2: into the cops. 477 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. 478 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 2: So Barnes is like, I'm already I'm in jail for 479 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 2: selling crack. That's way different from being you know, very 480 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,360 Speaker 2: much involved in this collar bomb heist. So he said, okay, 481 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 2: I'll tell you guys everything you want to know. I'll 482 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 2: be your star witness. Just reduce my sentence in this 483 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 2: for my involvement in this. And he started talking. When 484 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 2: he started talking, it was at Marjorie deal Armstrong's trial, 485 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 2: which was a pretty spectacular trial from all accounts. 486 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, and before the trial even he told his story 487 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: was is that she wanted me to kill her father. 488 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: He was spending what would end up being her inheritance, 489 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: she felt, and so she wanted him dead. And so 490 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,919 Speaker 1: she was doing this collar bomb heist to raise money 491 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: to pay me to kill her dad. 492 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 2: Which I mean, like that's just the biggest face poem 493 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 2: I've ever heard of. Yeah for a real So, okay, 494 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 2: we'll start Marjorie deil Armstrong's trial after we take a break. 495 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 2: How about that man? 496 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: That sounds good? 497 00:27:38,760 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 2: Okay, okay, chuck. So before Marjorie deil Armstrong goes to trial, 498 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 2: and remember, she's already in prison for the murder of 499 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 2: Jim Rodin right, shooting him in the back with a 500 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 2: twelve gage shotgun. Yes, Bill Rothstein is dead. I want 501 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 2: to call him, Ah Rostein. So Ace Rothstein's so bad. 502 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,239 Speaker 2: But Bill Rothstein is dead. He died of lymphoma. A 503 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 2: couple of years before, and by the time Marjorie deil 504 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 2: Armstrong is brought to trial for her involvement as the 505 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 2: mastermind of the collar bomb plot, they have to they 506 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 2: have to verify that she's actually mentally competent to stand trial. 507 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 2: And that's kind of touchy because remember when she she 508 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 2: was charged with killing her boyfriend back in I think 509 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four, nineteen eighty six, Yeah, she was. She 510 00:28:55,240 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 2: was deemed incompetent seven times by psychiatrists before for the 511 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 2: judge finally said I'm throwing all that out and deciding 512 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 2: that she is competent, We're going to go ahead with 513 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 2: the trial. Yes, they also found like four hundred pounds 514 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,479 Speaker 2: of butter and seven hundred pounds of cheese in her 515 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 2: in her house when they were investigating that particular murder. 516 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 2: And in between nineteen eighty four, in the time she 517 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 2: was tried in the collar bomb heist, she had been 518 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 2: diagnosed with bipolar disorder, so there it was actually kind 519 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 2: of questionable whether she was mentally competent to seand trial, 520 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 2: And right as they were about to start the proceedings, 521 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 2: I think the judge ruled that she was competent to 522 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 2: say and trial. She was diagnosed with cancer herself, that's right. 523 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 2: So they waited for the cancer diagnosis, her prognosis, and 524 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 2: the cancer doctor came back and said three to seven years, 525 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 2: and the prosecutors said, giddy up. 526 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: That's right. So previous to this, she had gotten the indictment. 527 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: But in that indictment, it's very important that she was 528 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: not I mean, granted she was the only one technically indicted, 529 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: but they in the indictment it said that Rothstein was 530 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: definitely a conspirator and Wells, the man who was who 531 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: was the victim, supposedly he was definitely involved in this 532 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: thing from the beginning. 533 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're absolutely right. As a very important thing that 534 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 2: that showed up in this indictment. 535 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, they said he agreed to rob this bank, he 536 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: thought it was a fake bomb, and he was told 537 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: this scavenger hunt was a ruse to fool the cops 538 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: and if and when he did get caught, he could say, 539 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: you know, I was just following orders basically what he did. 540 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 2: Right, And so Brian Wells's family did not like this 541 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 2: at all. Apparently during the the the press conference where 542 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 2: the Daaverrie County is announcing this, you know, this case 543 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 2: case is closed. This is the indictment that they have 544 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 2: the Wells. Some of Brian Wells's sisters were shouting liar 545 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 2: at her. They did not take the idea that their 546 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 2: brother was an accomplice in this at all very well. 547 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there was a lot of uh, there's 548 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: a lot of back and forth about whether Wells was 549 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: in on the big the thing from the beginning, or 550 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: whether or not he was in from the beginning and 551 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: then at one point wanted out and was forced to 552 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 1: do this, or whether he was forced from the beginning. 553 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: Everyone's telling a different story. And you know, basically the 554 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: trial is where we will learn, you know, if all 555 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: that is true, what really happened. 556 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 2: So Marjorie deil Armstrong's lawyers said, you know, to heck 557 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 2: with with caution, let's put you on the stand. Okay, 558 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 2: you've already incriminated yourself multiple times. Why not do it 559 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 2: in open court too, And she apparently was quite a 560 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 2: She put on quite a performance on the on the 561 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 2: stand over like two days, I think five and a 562 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 2: half hours of testimony. She yelled, she cried, she berated 563 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 2: the prosecutor and her own lawyer. When she did mention 564 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 2: Brian Wells. She said, I've never met the guy. I 565 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 2: learned of his death when everybody else did on the 566 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 2: TV news, And she stuck with her story though that 567 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 2: she had nothing to do with this. She knew a 568 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 2: little bit about it. She knew the conspirators. The real 569 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 2: mastermind was Bill Rothstein, and it wasn't her. That's what 570 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 2: she maintained though throughout the trial and even afterward. 571 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: That's right. But before she took the stand a few 572 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: days earlier is when they trotted out Ken Barnes and 573 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: he took the stand, and he said he had you know, 574 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 1: by the time she took the stand, he had given 575 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: a different account of the story than she would later do. 576 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: So he got up there and said she was behind 577 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: all this. She was the mastermind. Rostein was involved. She 578 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,719 Speaker 1: just recruited him. Basically, she recruited Wells because Wells needed money. 579 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: And here's where the prostitutes come into play. Apparently Wells 580 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: had a relationship with a prostitute who was also a 581 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: crack addict, so he would buy crack to give her, 582 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: presumably as trade for sex. He ended up falling into 583 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: debt with these crack dealers and needed money, and. 584 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 2: So it's basically the plot of Bulin. 585 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: Rouge, and he contends Barnes did that that up until 586 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: the day of the crime, Wells was thought this whole 587 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: thing was fake, realized that it was a double cross, 588 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: it was a real bomb, and he tried to run 589 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: away and was tackled and they put a gun to 590 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: his head and locked him into this device. 591 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 2: So imagine this, chuck. Imagine being Brian Wells and you're 592 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 2: agreeing to put on what you are presuming is a 593 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 2: fake caller bomb to go carry out a real bank 594 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,479 Speaker 2: robbery because you need money, because you're indebted to crack dealers, 595 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 2: because you borrowed from crack from them to give to 596 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 2: your girlfriend, who's a prostitute who you have to give 597 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 2: crack to be with. And then you find out on 598 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,759 Speaker 2: the day of that this is a real bomb and 599 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 2: they're putting it on you, whether you like it or not. 600 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 2: What a horrible what a horrible turn of events for 601 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 2: this poor guy. Yeah, I mean, that's just so sad, 602 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 2: no matter how you slice it. And then if you 603 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 2: take his families, if you take his family's opinion that 604 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,359 Speaker 2: he was one hundred percent innocent, that he really was 605 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 2: delivering pizzas and was accosted and had nothing to do 606 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 2: with any of this, which I take with a pretty 607 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 2: big grain of salt. I mean, that's just as bad. 608 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 2: But it's bad either way, whether he was an accomplice 609 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 2: at one point or not. It's super sad. There's a 610 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 2: very sad thread that's running through this story in the 611 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,359 Speaker 2: form of Brian Wells. You know. 612 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, And on the final day of her trial, 613 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,800 Speaker 1: at the very very end of her taking the stand, 614 00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: is when she finally said that she didn't know him, 615 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 1: never met him, mm hmm. And the first time she 616 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,280 Speaker 1: had ever laid eyes on him was on the news 617 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: that day. 618 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 2: Right. Basically, he and Marjorie deal Armstrong are fishing, right, 619 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,319 Speaker 2: they're fishing buddies that he's somebody that she would turn to, 620 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,399 Speaker 2: And she's finding out that her father is blowing through 621 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 2: her inheritance and she wants to put a stop to it, 622 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 2: and so she approaches Barnes to get him to kill 623 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 2: her father. But to get that two hundred and fifty 624 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 2: K that he says he will kill her father for, 625 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 2: she's got to rob a bank. So she turns to 626 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,240 Speaker 2: her friend Bill Rothstein to come up with this collar 627 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 2: bomb to put it on this other person, Brian Wells, 628 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 2: who's going to carry this out. And oh, by the way, 629 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,720 Speaker 2: we're also going to come up with a scavenger hunt 630 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 2: to either throw the cops off or to actually make 631 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,840 Speaker 2: Brian Wells feel more comfortable, give him some sort of 632 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 2: cover in case he is caught. And that's what we're 633 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 2: gonna go with. Go Team and Marjorie deal Armstrong. So 634 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 2: that's preposterous that that wasn't me, Kenneth Barnes said, that's 635 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 2: that's exactly what happened. And then Bill Rothstein wasn't alive 636 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 2: to contradict any of it. 637 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 1: That's right. 638 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 2: So she's sentenced, right, she's convicted as the mastermind of 639 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 2: this pot. Yeah. 640 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: The jury took about eleven hours and she was convicted 641 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 1: of armed bank robbery, conspiracy in using a destructive device 642 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,320 Speaker 1: in a crime of violence. 643 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 2: That's a big one. I'll bet, I'll bet that carries 644 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 2: a hefty sentence with it. 645 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and she would die in prison, just like her 646 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:32,399 Speaker 1: prognosis said, she didn't. I think she lasted a few years. Now. 647 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 2: They gave her three to seven years and she lasted seven. 648 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, so she finally passed away, and you know, that's 649 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: kind of the end of the story. Even though there 650 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: is a retired FBI investigator named Jim Fisher who said, 651 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,799 Speaker 1: I think they got this all wrong. I think that 652 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: Rothstein was the guy the whole time, and he makes 653 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:56,319 Speaker 1: a decently compelling case, but it's you know, everyone's dead now. 654 00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, Jim Fisher's gone a little bit down the rabbit 655 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 2: hole if you ask me. 656 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's kind of hard to tell with 657 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:08,439 Speaker 1: literally everyone having died. But for his money, he thinks 658 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: it was Rostein. 659 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, And so there's probably not many people who are 660 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,320 Speaker 2: familiar with the case who would say that it wasn't 661 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 2: Rothstein who built the bomb. But what Jim Fisher saying 662 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 2: is like Bill Rothstein was behind everything, and Marjorie dial 663 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 2: Armstrong murdering Jim Roden was just like a gift that 664 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 2: dropped in Bill Rothstein's lap that he could use to 665 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 2: make all these puppets dance, including the cops, and that 666 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 2: the whole point of it was to create this elaborate scheme, 667 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 2: this elaborate crime that would puzzle people for years and 668 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 2: years to come, which it's doing that, and that that 669 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 2: was the point, and that Brian Wells was going to 670 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 2: die one way or another, right, because I think the 671 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,799 Speaker 2: FBI said they concluded the whole scavenger hunt was a 672 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 2: hoax and that Brian well was never going to survive this, 673 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,840 Speaker 2: didn't they. Yeah, so so this is Jim Fisher's position. 674 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,920 Speaker 2: But like you said, now that everybody's dead, really the 675 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,839 Speaker 2: only question is, you know, just how how complicit was 676 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 2: Brian Wells is the last big question that's right. And 677 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 2: then there's one other guy who seems to have got 678 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 2: off scott free named Floyd Stockton. Did you look into 679 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 2: him a little bit? So he's a guy who was there. 680 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 2: He was he was there. He supposedly handed Rothstein the 681 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 2: bomb to put around Brian Wells's neck. He was staying 682 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 2: with Rothstein as a buddy on his couch, fleeing a 683 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 2: rape charge in Washington, and somehow, for some reason, he 684 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 2: got immunity and was not indicted even though he was 685 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 2: very much involved in this, and he got off scott free. 686 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 2: And Brian Wells's family is going nuts over the fact 687 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 2: that this guy's out there walking free, that he was, 688 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 2: he was a part of this this caper, and he 689 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 2: he didn't see a second inside of a jail. 690 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if there were more people involved. 691 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 2: Emon, So, what do you think do you think Brian 692 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 2: Wells was complicit? And if so, how much? 693 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 1: Oh? Man, I don't know. I mean, it sounds like 694 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 1: I kind of believe the story that they were all 695 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,960 Speaker 1: in it together and he was probably double crossed. But 696 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 1: this is just from reading about this thing many, many 697 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 1: years later. 698 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 2: Do you think Marjorie deal Armstrong was the mastermind? 699 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: I don't know. 700 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 2: I don't know either. Maybe we'll never know, but we might, 701 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 2: but probably not. You got anything else? 702 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 1: I got nothing else? 703 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 2: All right, Well, if you want to know more about 704 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,759 Speaker 2: the collar bomb case, you can type that word and 705 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 2: the search bar your favorite search engine and it will 706 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,479 Speaker 2: likely bring up a very great article on Wired from 707 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 2: Rich Shapiro. Read that start there. It's great And since 708 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:56,720 Speaker 2: I said Rich Shapiro, it's tide for the listener. 709 00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:04,879 Speaker 1: Mail with one on emoji and John Adams. Hey guys 710 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,399 Speaker 1: enjoyed the recent podcast about the history of emojis and emoticons. 711 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,960 Speaker 1: Reminded me of a discovery I made in the diaries 712 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: of John Adams that makes a historical figure who's sometimes 713 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:19,280 Speaker 1: described as aloof seemed completely charming when the future president 714 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 1: was about twenty two years old. He made it an 715 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,840 Speaker 1: entry in his diary in seventeen fifty six, saying, a 716 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 1: cloudy morning about ten, and he drew a little sunshine 717 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,479 Speaker 1: breakout a warm day. He uses a little line drawing 718 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,759 Speaker 1: on the sun that I always call an eighteenth century emoji. 719 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 1: He likes a little creation so much he re used 720 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,760 Speaker 1: it a month later in the same diary, A misty morning, 721 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:48,360 Speaker 1: little sunshine breakout about noon. On the Massachusetts Historical Society website, 722 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,759 Speaker 1: the text of his letters and diaries is faithfully transcribed, 723 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,760 Speaker 1: but in the cases. In these cases, a parenthetical note 724 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,320 Speaker 1: tells readers that there are small drawings of the sun 725 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,400 Speaker 1: and advises them to refer to the scans of the 726 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: handwritten page where you can actually see this. Apparently he 727 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,040 Speaker 1: grew out of his habit, though, because his later diaries 728 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,399 Speaker 1: do not use the adorable little son. Keep up great work. 729 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,000 Speaker 1: My wife and I host a local history podcast for 730 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 1: Boston Nice. It's tightly scripted. Oh man, he didn't tell 731 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,279 Speaker 1: me what it was. I would have totally shouted it out. 732 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:25,319 Speaker 1: What I know, big missed opportunity there, Jake. One of 733 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: these days will be confident enough to have an unscripted 734 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: conversation like you guys do. And that is from Jake Scaniers. 735 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 2: Okay, so everybody's look up Jake scan yours Boston History 736 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,480 Speaker 2: podcast and he'll probably bring it up right. Yeah, probably, 737 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 2: So thanks a lot, Jake. Thanks for keeping up the 738 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,359 Speaker 2: good fight up there. That's pretty cool. Good story too. 739 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:47,600 Speaker 2: If you want to get in touch with us, like 740 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:50,520 Speaker 2: Jake did, tell us about your podcast, that's great. You 741 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 2: can send us all an email of the Stuff podcast 742 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 2: at house stuffworks dot com and has always joined us 743 00:41:54,800 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 2: at our home on the web, Stuffishould Know dot com. 744 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,799 Speaker 1: Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. 745 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,359 Speaker 2: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit 746 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 1: The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 747 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:09,600 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.