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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic

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Speaker 1: episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

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Speaker 2: Hey, this is on paid Bill. This week's QLAS classic

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Speaker 2: is with Chris Schwartz. In the September twenty four, twenty

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Speaker 2: nineteen Combo, Chris talks about co founding rough House Records,

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Speaker 2: growing up in Philly, and giving our very own Quest

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Speaker 2: Love his first Internship episode one two.

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Speaker 3: Here it is.

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Speaker 4: Suprema s Sun Suprema roll call Suprema Suh suh Suprema,

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Speaker 4: roll call, Suprema su su Suprema, roll call Suprema.

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Speaker 5: This is not going to be Suprema. It's my turn. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: live in you learn.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're talking to the man.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, who let me in?

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Speaker 6: Turn Suprema s Supremo roll call Supreme Suck Suck Supremo.

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Speaker 5: Rolets in the building. Yeah, and it must be said. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: rough House Records.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they got all my breads.

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Speaker 6: Suprema shun Sun Supremo role Suprema shut Supremo role called.

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Speaker 3: My name is Sugar.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Last time I lived here, Yeah, I lived with a mayor. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that was a rough House.

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Speaker 6: Supremo roll Suprema su su supprivo roll.

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Speaker 5: Boss Bills in the House.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I ain't on a plane. Yeah, but I

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Speaker 3: just might be a little Yeah insane in the pre.

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Speaker 6: Supremat Supremo roll call Suprema So Supremo.

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Speaker 5: Role my name, Yeah, and that's PRIs Swartz.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: You may not know this, but he was my boss

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Speaker 5: once Roll.

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Speaker 6: Supreme Sun Sun Supremo roll call Suprema Sun Sun Supremo.

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Speaker 8: Roll for sure hanging out Yeah, Quest Love Supreme.

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Speaker 6: Suprema Sun Sun Suprema roll call, Suprema Son Sun Suprema

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Speaker 6: Roll Call Suprema Sun Sun Supremo roll call.

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Speaker 5: See it wasn't that pretty bad life? Ladies and gentlemen.

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Speaker 9: Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme. Uh, Quest

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Speaker 9: Love and we have the team Supreme here.

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Speaker 3: Hello. Hello, this is your life?

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Speaker 9: Yes, I know, right in the house. Yeah yeah, and

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Speaker 9: I'm paid. Bill is hear in spirit?

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry. Yeah, he's recovering from Boss Bills in.

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Speaker 9: The house and Sugar Steve good see man, Hey, how

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Speaker 9: you doing good?

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Speaker 3: See everybody?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's nice to see. I will say that.

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Speaker 9: Our guest today was instrumental in giving us a lot

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Speaker 9: of classic nineties hip hop man listen that shaped us.

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Speaker 3: Not to mention.

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Speaker 9: This man also gave me one of my first jobs

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Speaker 9: that got me into the industry, gave me an edge

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Speaker 9: of vacation. I asked for an internship. It's like show

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Speaker 9: up at ten in the morning, be on time, and

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Speaker 9: then I was there.

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Speaker 3: What can I say?

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Speaker 9: Like Roughhouse Records, Philadelphia's premiere recording label that gave us

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Speaker 9: Larry Lair, Cypress Hill, the Fuji's, the Goats, Criss Cross,

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Speaker 9: a little unown group called Chris Cross. Uh, even jam

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Speaker 9: oh Man Jamal Ski I used to play that John

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Speaker 9: Don't do It started the Jamal ski started a slew

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Speaker 9: of impostafarimators on their label. But even d M X

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Speaker 9: not many people know that x is the first single

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Speaker 9: was on rough House.

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Speaker 3: Uh, I mean school.

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Speaker 9: There's so many like uh, book coming out? Yes, when

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Speaker 9: in the title of the book.

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Speaker 5: Rough House from the streets affiliate to the top of

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Speaker 5: the hippop.

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Speaker 9: Yes, I didn't know what the practices is called Ladies

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Speaker 9: don't give it. From the one and only Chris Wartz.

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Speaker 8: Yes, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 3: Man full circle.

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Speaker 9: Yes, yes, Worts, I mean last time I seen you man,

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Speaker 9: you know we.

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Speaker 8: Were I talk about this all the time. I remember, Oh,

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Speaker 8: he's seeing you either at the airport or the trains.

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Speaker 8: You were always on the move. And I remember I

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Speaker 8: was telling Leyah, I was driving to thirty Street station

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Speaker 8: with somebody from New York, and I said, I'll bet

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Speaker 8: you right now, like twenty bucks that we're going to

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Speaker 8: see a mirror.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 8: So we got to the train station, you weren't there,

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Speaker 8: and I forked over the twenty.

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Speaker 5: But then when.

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Speaker 8: We were leaving New York to come back, you were

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Speaker 8: at the train station.

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Speaker 5: See.

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Speaker 9: I'm never well, See I'm the opposite of general. Never

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Speaker 9: on time, but always there, never there. I have so

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Speaker 9: many questions. I mean, I've known you for so long

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Speaker 9: but never knew your true story? Right, but where were

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Speaker 9: you born? Were you born in Philadelphia?

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Speaker 5: In a hospital in Philadelphia? Technically? Yeah, I was worn

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Speaker 5: at Jefferson Hospital.

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, okay. What part of Philly did you grow

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Speaker 3: up in?

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Speaker 5: I grew up in I grew up out out in

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Speaker 5: the farmlands.

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Speaker 3: Okay, you say that with pride a lot of people. No, no, no,

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Speaker 3: I'm not I'm not riky.

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Speaker 9: I'm just saying that when people who are not in

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Speaker 9: Philadelphia see me, they're like hey.

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Speaker 5: I'm from Philly.

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Speaker 3: I was like, oh we're we're part Evan. They get

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Speaker 3: to seem like.

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Speaker 8: No, no, no Salem or you know, come shocking. Yeah yeah, Devon,

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Speaker 8: yeah Devon. Uh where I was, where I grew up.

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Speaker 3: It was.

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Speaker 8: Like farmland, and then my neighborhood was this little like uh,

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Speaker 8: I guess it was like a World War two, you know,

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Speaker 8: post World War two little development.

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Speaker 5: And but you know, I.

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Speaker 8: Left home at seventeen and uh joined the service and

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Speaker 8: spent really yeah okay, which brings navy Okay, yeah wow,

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Speaker 8: oh yeah, it's on the book.

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Speaker 3: But never I'm that discipline cars.

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Speaker 9: Yeah yeah, right, well that explains a lot.

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Speaker 3: Uh what'd you I mean? Were you always uh sort

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Speaker 3: of drawn to music or oh?

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Speaker 5: Absolutely absolutely?

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Speaker 8: I mean since uh, well I got I grew up

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Speaker 8: in a family of ten kids. Wow, so uh at

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Speaker 8: number seven? Okay, So I have four older brothers and

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Speaker 8: two older sisters. So growing up, you know, you know,

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Speaker 8: I'm I was born in nineteen sixty, so having old

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Speaker 8: you see, it's the thing my family was set up.

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Speaker 8: It was like two groups of kids. There was the

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Speaker 8: older kids, right, and and then my parents had another

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Speaker 8: five kids later on. So for instance, when I was

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Speaker 8: I guess five or six, my oldest brother came home

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Speaker 8: from he went to college and he started his first

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Speaker 8: job and then he moved back from Ohio to our house.

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Speaker 8: I didn't know who he was. I mean, yeah, literally, no,

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Speaker 8: It's like one day, one day, I'm you know, my

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Speaker 8: mother wake up and my mother's talking to this guy

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Speaker 8: and you know, he's got like bushy blonde hair and

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Speaker 8: a scraggly beard, and he's standing at the top of

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Speaker 8: the stairs in his underwear talking to my mother. And

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Speaker 8: my mother's talking to him like, you know, she's doing

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Speaker 8: them all her life. And I'm like, I'm standing behinder

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Speaker 8: like who, like who is this?

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Speaker 6: You know?

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Speaker 8: So but but but back to you know, so I

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Speaker 8: grew up in a house like a lot of music

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Speaker 8: from the sixties and the seventies, you know, was constantly

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Speaker 8: playing from different rooms, and.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, I.

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Speaker 8: Was particularly you know, there was a lot there was

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Speaker 8: two things going on. You had the definitive pop radio,

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Speaker 8: which was AM radio, which was just pop hits, and

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Speaker 8: then you had the progressive FM rock stage.

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Speaker 3: So were you a wizard one hundred head?

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Speaker 8: No, it was actually WFI l oh okay, Yeah, And

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Speaker 8: then and then there you had WYSP and w WMMR

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Speaker 8: WMMR for people from Philly. You probably don't know that

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Speaker 8: it was actually one of the first underground FM rock

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Speaker 8: stay in the country. Every Saturday at twelve o'clock at night,

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Speaker 8: they play an entire album like new outline artists and you,

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Speaker 8: and they would tell you how to set your dollby

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Speaker 8: on your tape deck to record. It's really yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 8: really yep, damn.

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Speaker 3: I didn't realize that.

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Speaker 9: So you you weren't You weren't part of the generation

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Speaker 9: listenings up because I know that Wizard one hundred on

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Speaker 9: the AM dial.

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Speaker 5: Was kind of like that.

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Speaker 8: Actually that actually may have been a little bit before

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Speaker 8: my listening years.

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Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 9: All right, No, I just you know, the house was

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Speaker 9: always on my radio, like in the house, that radio

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Speaker 9: was always on.

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Speaker 3: House wasn't always on my radio. Radio was always on

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Speaker 3: my house.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, but usually on the weekends, uh, like Saturday and

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Speaker 9: Sunday like Casey Casem's countdown we come on that station whatnot.

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Speaker 9: But all right, so you straight up FM kid, Yeah,

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Speaker 9: do you remember what the music environment was like in

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Speaker 9: Philadelphia as far as the nightlife was concerned.

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Speaker 3: Or anything, or did you have to go to New

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Speaker 3: York too?

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Speaker 8: Well, when I was, I mean it was like when

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Speaker 8: I was, when I was like like a uh teenager,

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Speaker 8: the music of Philadelphia was really more primarily known because

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Speaker 8: of pir you know, it was really known as the

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Speaker 8: you know, you had you had the you had Motown oheys.

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Speaker 8: But Philly, Philly was known as is the place where

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Speaker 8: you know, it played a big part of the disco era.

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Speaker 8: You know, it did the tramps and everything like that. So, uh,

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Speaker 8: but your coming of age was more.

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Speaker 9: Post yeah, assuming twenty one, twenty two whatever.

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Speaker 8: Like, yeah, well I would well I was, uh, I

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Speaker 8: would have been twenty one in nineteen eighty eighty one

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Speaker 8: eighty one, Yeah, yeah, nineteen eighty one.

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Speaker 9: So what were the musical options after the initial primary

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Speaker 9: disco duh?

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Speaker 5: Well, oh so we're talking about that peak period.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, nineteen eighty one it was it was uh,

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Speaker 8: you know it you had Lady b Power ninety nine.

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Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, that's so you were a head.

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Speaker 8: Oh right, oh yeah, nineteen eighty one mostly yeah, Well,

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Speaker 8: here's it was. It was two things. It was hip

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Speaker 8: hop on one part of it, right, and then uh my.

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Speaker 5: My sort of bass.

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Speaker 8: Formative thing was I was really into electronic music.

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Speaker 5: That was that was it? Like to me?

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Speaker 8: Craft Work? Yeah, craft work, see because I had listen.

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Speaker 8: I've been listening to craft Work since I was a kid.

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Speaker 8: I mean I went to see I want to see

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Speaker 8: them perform Audubon at the Valley Forge Music Fair because Audubon.

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Speaker 5: Here's here's what a lot of people know.

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Speaker 8: Wfi L used to play the entire album version of Audubon.

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Speaker 8: The three longest songs in history of AM pop radio

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Speaker 8: were Tubular Bells by Michaelfield, which was the because it

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Speaker 8: was the theme for The Exorcist. Uh, and it Gotta

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Speaker 8: Vita by Iron Butterfly, and then you had Audubon and

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Speaker 8: they used to play it, you know, the entire thing

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Speaker 8: on pop radio. So they they did a show at

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Speaker 8: the Valley Forge Music Fair and I went there with

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Speaker 8: my best friend.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: No, no, no, no, no, that's the new value for it.

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Speaker 5: That's the later on.

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Speaker 8: Valley Forge Music Fair actually started as a tent really yeah,

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Speaker 8: it was a big tent. It was like a seasonal thing.

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Speaker 8: They'd have like you know, Fiddler on the Roof and

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Speaker 8: stuff like that. And they had just built the first one.

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Speaker 8: The first incarnation of it, right and uh yeah, and

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Speaker 8: it was like I went there and was just two guys,

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Speaker 8: you know, Ralph and Florian and like big stacks of

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Speaker 8: keyboards and everything.

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Speaker 5: Uh and it was it was. It was very cool.

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Speaker 3: I was so futuristic. Yeah, they were the daft punk.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, well it's it's funny if they they were, you

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Speaker 8: know the way I kind of see it daft punk.

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Speaker 5: Really yeah. If if there's been no craft.

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Speaker 9: Works, I'm not sure craft work, yes, yeah, I see

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Speaker 9: what you mean.

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Speaker 3: Wait, is the Valley Ford's Music Fair still around today?

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Speaker 5: I don't think so.

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Speaker 8: I think there's a there's either a Red Lobster or

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Speaker 8: damn something. Yeah, like Criss Cross show there, yea with

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Speaker 8: Doctor Dre and Ed really yeah, it.

246
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Speaker 5: Was, it was yeah.

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Speaker 9: So yeah they closed in ninety six, really damn. Yes,

248
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Speaker 9: there's always my dream to to play there, like my

249
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Speaker 9: dad played there once. But like they would have a

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Speaker 9: rotating stage in the round thing and yeah, one could

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Speaker 9: get dizzy or lose their since. So yeah, depending on

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Speaker 9: how many degrees the how fast the stage was turning.

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Speaker 8: When I was thirteen, I worked at a banquet house

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Speaker 8: down the street, washing dishes and all the whoever was

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Speaker 8: playing at the Value Forge Music Fair used to come

256
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Speaker 8: to stop. Yeah, they go there to eat and I

257
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Speaker 8: met a lot of people like Mac Davis.

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Speaker 3: Oh, Dann.

259
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Speaker 5: I changed a flat tire for zero Mastell's limo.

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Speaker 8: Really yeah, damn, gave me ride home, gave me fifty bucks.

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Speaker 3: Wow, fix a limo and get a lift.

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Speaker 9: Do you remember the club Cahoots There was like a Sheridan,

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Speaker 9: a circular Sheridan hotel like in the area.

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Speaker 8: Uh yeah, in Value Yeah. I never had reason to

265
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Speaker 8: frequent the club. Yeah, but I know they had that.

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Speaker 8: That's the place that had the themed hotel rooms.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, top yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm going down Philly memory Lane.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 5: I always wanted to go.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 9: So for you like listening to Lady B, Well, Lady

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Speaker 9: B started off on w H A t Mary Do

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Speaker 9: you remember Mary Mason?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Mary Ma, she was still on h she was

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Speaker 5: still Yeah.

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Speaker 9: So, like they had a Saturday hip hop show, one

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Speaker 9: of the very first ones that Philadelphia had.

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Speaker 3: So I know that Lady B started.

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Speaker 9: At H at like nineteen eighty till, which is weird

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Speaker 9: considering that hip hop, you know, two years in having

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Speaker 9: a two hour format you know, you only had like

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Speaker 9: thirty records to choose from. Uh, so you had to

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Speaker 9: play all those sixteen minute songs.

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Speaker 8: And then they took her over the station that was

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Speaker 8: the there was the uh I think it was w

287
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Speaker 8: io Q right. Then they became uh, it was Yesterday's

288
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Speaker 8: now Music Today.

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Speaker 5: It was like new wave.

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Speaker 8: Then I think they moved her there and they build

291
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Speaker 8: up the ratings like they she was there, like it

292
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Speaker 8: could have been you know, I might have my facts wrong,

293
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Speaker 8: but I believe it. They would play it was all

294
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Speaker 8: hip hop. It was massive. They sponsored shows at the

295
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Speaker 8: after midnight and then they sold it. Oh really, And

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Speaker 8: I think she went to Paradise.

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Speaker 9: Yeh kicking out Once she came to parat nine eighty four,

298
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Speaker 9: briefly had an afternoon Sunday show from like twelve in

299
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Speaker 9: the afternoon till uh maybe five pm on Sunday afternoon.

300
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Speaker 9: And I mean there she would play hip hop and

301
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Speaker 9: uh the electronica of the day, so sort of like

302
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Speaker 9: Nucleus and uh gem on, yeah.

303
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Speaker 5: That sort of you know, anything that sounds like planet rock.

304
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Speaker 9: And then she went away and then yeah, and then

305
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Speaker 9: returned in nineteen eighty seven.

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Speaker 8: Did you start out as management. First, Like, what was

307
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Speaker 8: your first job in the industream I played? I played

308
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Speaker 8: in bands, okay, and who did you play with? I? Well,

309
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Speaker 8: my first my first thing when I when I when

310
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Speaker 8: I joined when I joined the Navy, I played in

311
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Speaker 8: I started a band with.

312
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Speaker 5: A bunch of other sailors and we did a bunch

313
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Speaker 5: of gigs.

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Speaker 8: And when I came home, I regrouped with my best

315
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Speaker 8: childhood friend, Jeff Coulter.

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Speaker 5: He was a drummer.

317
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Speaker 8: So when I was in the service, he started really

318
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Speaker 8: getting into you know, because of craft work. He started

319
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Speaker 8: getting into these other I mean craft work is kind

320
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Speaker 8: of like at the at the apex of this whole

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Speaker 8: like community, like of all these German groups like Klau Schultze, Tangerine.

322
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Speaker 5: Dream, NOI, uh everything.

323
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Speaker 8: And so when I came home, he had like literally

324
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Speaker 8: over a thousand records of this stuff. And we get

325
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Speaker 8: him at either Plastic Fantastic and Ardmore or the basement

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Speaker 8: of basement of Third Street Jazz. You mentioned Plastic Fantastic,

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Speaker 8: one of the greatest record stores ever.

328
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Speaker 9: Right down the street from when I sold insurance on

329
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Speaker 9: Lancaster Avenue.

330
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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I would take my entire sector.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 8: Well, and here's the thing the the the basement of

333
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Speaker 8: Third Street Jazz. That's all that was. And you would,

334
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,840
Speaker 8: you know, like a cloud Schultz import was like one

335
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,840
Speaker 8: hundred and twenty bucks, but you bought it because this

336
00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:27,080
Speaker 8: was like, you know, Kloud's doing a like two sides

337
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Speaker 8: of a duet with some famous cellis and Klouds is

338
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Speaker 8: playing with the Gens computer and.

339
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Speaker 5: You know, it's just very cool stuff.

340
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Speaker 8: So so I had a set of Degan electro Vibes.

341
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Speaker 8: It's a portable vibe set of vibraphones that you like

342
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Speaker 8: a suitcase and the stands. So I bought all my equipment,

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Speaker 8: had it shipped back, and him and I joined up

344
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Speaker 8: and we started this group called Tangent and we were,

345
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Speaker 8: you know, just devotees to electronic music. So you were, oh,

346
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,360
Speaker 8: well yeah with w XPN. So w XPN had two

347
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,800
Speaker 8: radio shows. One was called Diaspar and the other what's

348
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:12,760
Speaker 8: called stars End. They played and supported electronic music. We

349
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,880
Speaker 8: did shows. So we did a tape for them and

350
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Speaker 8: uh I remember we drove down to their station on

351
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Speaker 8: Spruce Street and jumped out of the car, double parked,

352
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Speaker 8: ran in, knocked on the door. Some guy, you know,

353
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Speaker 8: the buzzer opens the door, takes the tape, and like

354
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Speaker 8: three nights later we're you know, every night, that's all

355
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 8: we did was jam and record. And we stopped to

356
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:43,600
Speaker 8: listen to two Stars end and John de Liberto comes

357
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,440
Speaker 8: on and says, yeah, we got a new tape from

358
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,560
Speaker 8: a group from Philadelphia called Tangent Chris Schwartz and Jeff Culter,

359
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 8: and we're hearing the stuff.

360
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Speaker 5: Now.

361
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Speaker 8: I've been at you know, I've been at the Navy

362
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:59,640
Speaker 8: now three months and I'm already you know. So they

363
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,159
Speaker 8: this week we went and played their picnic there that

364
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 8: they had, and then we were we did a show

365
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,159
Speaker 8: at the East Side Club where we did Audubon. We

366
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 8: played the whole version of Audubon there and uh met

367
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,400
Speaker 8: this this girl who was a filmmaker, and she introduced

368
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Speaker 8: me to these guys had a band called Rhythm of Lines.

369
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,200
Speaker 8: Uh at this in this period in Philadelphia. Philadelphia had

370
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:31,120
Speaker 8: this really amazing live music scene for for bands, and

371
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 8: there was you know, is when you go down the

372
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Speaker 8: South Street or and you'd see these bills on on

373
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Speaker 8: telephone poles and there'd be like shows every night. You

374
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,359
Speaker 8: could go out, you could go out and see any

375
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 8: number of uh, the Stickman, the Vells, Pretty Poison, Yeah,

376
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:56,000
Speaker 8: Pretty Poison. So yeah, so so we joined. Jeff and

377
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 8: I joined this bigger band called Rhythm of Lines, and

378
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,680
Speaker 8: it was more like a New Order Talking Heads type thing.

379
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 5: And we we we.

380
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 8: Did a bunch of shows opened up for Pretty Poison,

381
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,640
Speaker 8: the Vells, shows of the Stickman. We did shows at Blondies,

382
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:17,119
Speaker 8: Emerald Cities, Bigelow's, Phillies and the East Side Club and

383
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 8: h But I wanted to get a record deal.

384
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Speaker 5: That was my big thing. I wanted to, you know,

385
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Speaker 5: get a record deal.

386
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,119
Speaker 8: And you know, the guys, the the other guys in

387
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,400
Speaker 8: the in the in the band, they weren't I don't

388
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,640
Speaker 8: know they they just had their priorities were in peculiar places,

389
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Speaker 8: I'll know. So, uh, Jeff and I left. We uh

390
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 8: we ended up moving to a house in West Philly.

391
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 8: Uh that a friend of mine, Rich Murray, who was

392
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 8: a Temple film grad. Yeah yeah, Rich, and so we

393
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 8: all we moved in together. We uh we put a

394
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 8: student we created put our studio.

395
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Speaker 5: In one of the rooms.

396
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 8: And so Jeff and I were now doing more traditional

397
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 8: dance music and met this girl, Robin Carter, who was

398
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 8: her they called her astro girl because she had this, uh,

399
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 8: this total affinity for anything related to NASA and space travel.

400
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 8: She actually went on to get her degree in astrophysics

401
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 8: and she does work for NASA as we speak, really crazy.

402
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 8: But she was a saxophone player. Her her her landlord

403
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,439
Speaker 8: was Jack right from Spring Guarden Music.

404
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 5: So she you're naming.

405
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,400
Speaker 9: All these like Philly legends of record store owners and yeah,

406
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 9: shout out to Michael mcquochan, also from Third Street Jazz.

407
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, you give me all the good ship.

408
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 8: So we we uh, she she joined up with us.

409
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,880
Speaker 5: We came up with that. We called ourselves the Ultronics, right.

410
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 8: And we we started doing gigs and she got us

411
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 8: a gig at to get Llery Mall.

412
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 5: It was a little different, you know.

413
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,239
Speaker 8: So you know, we're doing our thing and people are

414
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 8: kind of coming there, standing there carrying their shopping bags.

415
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 5: They're looking at us for about three or four minutes

416
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 5: and walking away.

417
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 8: But there was a group of kids who were like

418
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 8: watching us intently the whole time, and they're like talking

419
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 8: amongst themselves, right, and they're just like so when we're done,

420
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 8: they kind of like they they they walk over and

421
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 8: this kid introduces himself, his name is Clinton Shirley and

422
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 8: his stage name was Kid Fresh and he and he said,

423
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 8: you know, we're hip hop group and we'd like to

424
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 8: know could you guys.

425
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 5: Help us do some beats.

426
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 8: So we bought them over to our house and like

427
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 8: the next week and we did a bunch of tracks

428
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 8: on the second floor and made this tape.

429
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 5: And so.

430
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 8: You know, by this time, we had amassed a bunch

431
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 8: of twelve inch dance records. So I started looking through

432
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 8: these records because I remembered there was a record label

433
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 8: in Philadelphia and it was Virtue Virtue Records, and I

434
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 8: got the phone number. Now I got to go back

435
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 8: a little bit because Rich being you know, as a filmmaker,

436
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 8: he was doing these videos for Philly World Records and

437
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 8: he got me the gig as being.

438
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 5: The caterer during these video shoots.

439
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 8: Right, So I had met Donald Robinson and Donald came

440
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 8: over to our house. I tried to get him to

441
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 8: produce us, and he said, yeah, I get what you're doing,

442
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 8: but your song suck.

443
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 5: And I was like, all right, I get it.

444
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 8: But but the thing is, it's that when I called

445
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 8: the number on Virtue Recording, I I kind of took

446
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 8: the liberty of bolstering the narrative and telling Frank Virtue

447
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 8: that I was I was working with Donald Robinson. And

448
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 8: that got Frank's attention and he said, come on up.

449
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 8: So I went up to Frank and I played him

450
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 8: this uh this stuff.

451
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 5: He listened to it.

452
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 8: Now, Frank had been working as a partnership with the

453
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 8: guy named Vince de Rosa, who owned a company called

454
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 8: Soundmakers in Jersey and for folks who might not know

455
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 8: or maybe be interested, sound Makers in the eighties pressed

456
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 8: up all the records for Next Plateau, Sleeping Bag, Tommy Boy,

457
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 8: even Death Jam, Yeah, all the indie labels.

458
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 5: So they were the disc makers of yeah oh yeah,

459
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 5: oh wait.

460
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 9: We should also know that Donald Robinson didn't he write

461
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 9: Dreaming for Vanessa Williams?

462
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Donald, Donald did lots of Uyah, Eugene Wilde,

463
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 8: you know, to get you home to you know what

464
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 8: I got to tell you, Well, that song, you know,

465
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 8: that song was a was a was really just doing

466
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 8: sexual healing right coming whole vibe.

467
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 5: But it was still a great song, you know.

468
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 8: Uh So yeah, well that's where I met Donald because

469
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 8: I was a caterer on Rich was doing the video. Yeah,

470
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 8: so so Frank Frank Virtue and for people to know

471
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 8: he was a music industry old timer.

472
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:28,479
Speaker 5: He uh.

473
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 8: He played in the Philadelphia Orchestra as a teenager. He

474
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 8: was a prodigy violinist and he led he he he.

475
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 8: They drafted him to the Navy to lead a big

476
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 8: band dance band in the Navy. He got out and

477
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 8: he had a group called the Virtues and the Virtue

478
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 8: with the Virtues and the Virtuoso's, he had a couple

479
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 8: hit songs. He had Guitar Shuffle Boogie, the Horse, the

480
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 8: Return of the Horse. He toured with like Patty Page

481
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 8: and somebody sent me something on Facebook the other day.

482
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 8: He actually did shows with the Three Stooges. It's a

483
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 8: warm a back row three Stooges. Yeah really yeah so

484
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 8: so so we Frank and Vince formed this record company

485
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 8: called Slice Records, and Clinton Shirley was one of their

486
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 8: kid fresh was their first artists. So we we did

487
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 8: these records up at Frank's and it was a pretty

488
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 8: pathetic affair in terms of a label. The pressing plan

489
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 8: hired this guy in a pickup truck to drive Clinton

490
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 8: and his hype guy around.

491
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 5: To the to the to the to the venues and everything,

492
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 5: and nothing ever came of it. Uh. But Clinton later

493
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 5: on uh changed his name to Mike Elliott. Oh yeah,

494
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 5: I knew that I was lean up. Yeah. Yeah, Mike

495
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 5: Elliott the Source. But you know, but here's the thing.

496
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 8: He he He actually co wrote the What's the Kid

497
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 8: the Sneaker the movie?

498
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 9: No, Mike Kelly did the Source Awards. Well yeah, hang on,

499
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 9: I gotta look. Yeah, Mike Elliot is one of the

500
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 9: original uh source guy.

501
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, I didn't wait, I didn't realize.

502
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 9: I forgot. He also had his own video show. He

503
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 9: had his own video show in Philadelphia. It's killing me now.

504
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 9: He went in the movies. Uh, Mike Elliott developed the

505
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 9: Carmen movie Most and most us birthing sometimes in this

506
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 9: in this very room that we're in.

507
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 3: Uh. But yeah, Mike Elliott is a fully legend.

508
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 5: Yeah.

509
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 3: He did the script Brown Sugar, I believe, so I

510
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 3: know that he got into filmmaking heavy.

511
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 8: Yeah he No, he did the something like Mike the

512
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 8: about the kid in the orphanage.

513
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, like Mike, like Mike.

514
00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 5: No, something like Mike. Brown Sugar was his first. Uh No,

515
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 5: but this here's the thing.

516
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 8: Rich Murray and I were out in La this years

517
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 8: later and we're we're at some some film company, some studio,

518
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 8: and the guy were sitting there and somehow we hear

519
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 8: Mike Elliott's names, like Mike Elliott, I know, Mike, Mike Elliott,

520
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 8: and and he said, uh, oh yeah, you know he's

521
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 8: a hot property right now because he did this the movie.

522
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 8: It's about a kid in an orphanage and something to

523
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 8: do with a pair of sneakers, like and Michael.

524
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 5: George like Mike like Mike.

525
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,719
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah he did like Mike with bo.

526
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 5: Yeah.

527
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 8: So I'm sorry, so so so so I So then

528
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 8: then the thing is the trade off was Frank would

529
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 8: let me use the studio to develop acts.

530
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 5: I had to help him. Frank had a gospel.

531
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 8: Business, and what it would be is that, you know

532
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 8: a lot of the bigger churches would record their gospel choirs.

533
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 8: They press up the records and sell them to the

534
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 8: congregation to raise money.

535
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 5: And so that was a big business of Frank's.

536
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 8: Frank actually, interestingly enough, had a a very you know,

537
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 8: back before Sigma Sound and these companies, everybody went to

538
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 8: Virtue to record. Kenny, Kenny and Leon did a lot

539
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 8: of their early stuff up there and Frank, you know,

540
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 8: I don't know if some many listeners don't know about

541
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 8: the mastering process, but after record has made and mixed,

542
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 8: it has to be mastered. And what mastering.

543
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 5: Is is that you you.

544
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 8: It's a process for making sure that the record that

545
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 8: you made in the studio is reproduced everywhere else with

546
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 8: the intended audio equalization. So the record has to get

547
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 8: mastered for manufacturing. So it's a it's a whole other

548
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 8: kind of mixing process. And uh, Frank had been doing

549
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 8: it for years. He held patents on the mastering pro

550
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 8: he met. He mastered the first couple of Beatles singles

551
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 8: for Swan and Decca Records. So I did this whole

552
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 8: thing with Frank for a while and it just kind of,

553
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 8: you know, came came to nothing. And now like I'm

554
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 8: working in Downies as a cook and living in West Philly,

555
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 8: and I saw an ad in newspaper for record company

556
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 8: looking for help, and I'm like, okay, it's you know something.

557
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 8: And I called this guy up and he tells me

558
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 8: he has a company called Nicetown Records in West Philly

559
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 8: and his name was Ted Wing and one of his.

560
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 3: Records was.

561
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 5: Live and greater for.

562
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 8: So yeah so Ted, Ted was formerly a prison guard,

563
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 8: right and Ted helped actually helped Lawrence and Dana start

564
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 8: pop art so so so so yeah, so you know

565
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 8: cut the Rich and I you know, also did a

566
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 8: video for pop art. We did the Rock Sands Rock

567
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 8: Sands Revenge.

568
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:17,719
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.

569
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 5: We shot it at our house. As a matter of fact,

570
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 5: yeah ye.

571
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 3: Record.

572
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'll tell you this.

573
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 8: I we shot at our house and it had everybody

574
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 8: was involved in the actual story about how she got

575
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 8: a record deal and got.

576
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 5: Signed was in it. The shooting went till three in

577
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 5: the morning.

578
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 8: And I'll never forget coming downstairs in my in my

579
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 8: living room. Uh, Marley Marr and mister Magic are in

580
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 8: my living room on the couch under blankets, eating cereal

581
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 8: and watching cartoons.

582
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 3: Wait, can you take us a slight sidebar?

583
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 9: And because whenever I get someone that tells a pop

584
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 9: art story, usually.

585
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 3: It's you know, told like and then I met Lawrence coopin.

586
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 5: No, Dana was the dangerous one.

587
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 3: Okay, well this is what I want to know.

588
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 9: Obviously they had the makings to be a contender, yes,

589
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 9: because they were deaf jam before death cham.

590
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, they had salt and Pepper. They had all of

591
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 5: the for them.

592
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 8: I'd never tried to get a deal with a major label, right,

593
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 8: So how did they drop in the most diplomatic way

594
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 8: you can say, or if you don't give a fuck,

595
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 8: tells the truth, how do they drop the ball on

596
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 8: pop art? They had something they had, I'll tell you

597
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 8: what they had, man. They they they they they cracked

598
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 8: the code right long before a lot of people.

599
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 5: And here's what they realized hip hop.

600
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 8: Music, right, yeah, you know it was a It was

601
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 8: the purview of the indie labels because for the first

602
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 8: time since the whole disco era, you could.

603
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 5: Now be an independent label.

604
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 8: You could make a record, you could get it out there,

605
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 8: and because you're using you're facilitating uh, lifestyle marketing initiatives.

606
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,959
Speaker 5: And every stuff that doesn't cost a lot of money, but.

607
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 8: Yet you have a product they can go out and

608
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 8: sell big numbers.

609
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:30,439
Speaker 3: Right.

610
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 8: And the it was kind of like, uh, you know,

611
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 8: the majors were seeing this, you know, and they were

612
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 8: they were coveting this whole thing. And the majors basically,

613
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 8: and I know no other way to say it, man,

614
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 8: but they colonized.

615
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 5: The hip hop industry.

616
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 8: I'm not talk about hip hop music. But the hip

617
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 8: hop business they colonized. They colonized it. Yeah, and so

618
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 8: so Lawrence and Dana figured it out earlier on before

619
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 8: a lot of people because these companies like Next Plateau

620
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 8: and Sleeping Bag and everything all went by the wayside

621
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 8: because they all chose to remain fiercely independent. And I

622
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 8: get that, but when the popularity of a music becomes

623
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 8: so big, you know, you're not going to be able

624
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 8: to deliver the manufacturing and distribution. So they figured it

625
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 8: out that you had to get with a major. And

626
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 8: so that's when they did the deal with Jive, right,

627
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 8: And I watched that and I said to Joe, I said,

628
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 8: that's that's where we need to be. That's that's what

629
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 8: we need to do.

630
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 9: So but they had such a hefty roster, lost them all.

631
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 9: They had Jazzy Jeff Prince, they had Salt and Pepper,

632
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 9: they had bizz.

633
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 5: Ye, John tay Uh, the hill Top Hustlers.

634
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 3: Stead they had them all and lost them all. Like

635
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 3: were they just.

636
00:36:58,719 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 5: Businessmen?

637
00:36:59,600 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 3: Yeah?

638
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 8: I think it's you know, the the for for what

639
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 8: it's worth there this business. You know, let's face it,

640
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 8: there there is no no prerequisite to get in the

641
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 8: record business.

642
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 3: You don't you don't need.

643
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 5: A college degree, you don't need a resume, you don't

644
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 5: need nothing. And as a result of that, and because.

645
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 8: Of the the proliferation of all these visuals showing showing

646
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 8: wealth and showing you know, status and everything like that,

647
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 8: it attracts a lot of people, a lot of people

648
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 8: who who feel like, oh, this is a business I

649
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 8: could walk.

650
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 5: In and become a millionaire overnight.

651
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:40,280
Speaker 3: Right.

652
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 8: And they had they I always say, there were great

653
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 8: an r guys, and they had the musical chops, but

654
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 8: I think they they just lacked a lot.

655
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 5: In the on the side.

656
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 3: Of a business.

657
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, and just.

658
00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 3: Wow, man, I don't know, I want to do with

659
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 3: bulletproof still around, I'm like they are.

660
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 5: Because I still followed.

661
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 9: Uh well, you know the youngster guys or they're ulsters

662
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 9: now one of them is still working with Like, I

663
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 9: don't know.

664
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 5: How are you talking about the kids?

665
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, like one of them in her staff.

666
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 5: But I'll tell you this. I'll tell you this.

667
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 8: Lawrence and Dana were very they have very definitive ideas,

668
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 8: you know what I mean.

669
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 5: And that's what that's to me.

670
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 8: It's like, you know, they they again they cracked the

671
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 8: code they figured it out, because I'll tell you when

672
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 8: they did the deal with Jive, and I'll never forget

673
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 8: they came in the studio with their with their jackets

674
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 8: at r c A and the hats and everything, and

675
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 8: I'm like, I was kind of like, at first.

676
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 5: I was like, oh man, they they sold out. They

677
00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 5: went with Jive and everything, you know.

678
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 8: And then and then but then to hear him talk

679
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 8: about it, it was like it was like the the

680
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 8: you know, it's like, well, that's if you're unless it's network.

681
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:12,959
Speaker 5: Now, if you're not a major, you're gonna is what.

682
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,439
Speaker 3: You're gonna think. Yeah, okay, So all.

683
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 8: Right, so we're at the Bill Cosby record, right right.

684
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 8: So so Ted was a prison guard at great effort,

685
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 8: and he was the director of the Prisoner's Activities Fund.

686
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 8: And so I think Bill Cosby, I think the story

687
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 8: was to get his PhD or is his thesis. I mean,

688
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 8: for whatever you can say about the man, he he

689
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 8: you know, this is the guy who who was shooting

690
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 8: I spy right in the sixties and then flying to

691
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 8: do casinos to do shows and getting his uh he

692
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 8: constantly he continues his education all throughout the whole thing

693
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 8: by doing these projects. So he told the prison you

694
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 8: can have whatever how you want to exploit this state up.

695
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,320
Speaker 8: You can have it as long as the money benefits

696
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 8: the prisoners activities fund. So so Ted ends up with

697
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 8: this record and you know, he doesn't have any real

698
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 8: artwork or anything.

699
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 5: It's uh, he had some rendering done.

700
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,240
Speaker 3: It was just really headed boys.

701
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 8: Yeah, so so he he. I walk from forty eighth

702
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 8: in hazel to fifty second in Parkside looking for the

703
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:29,760
Speaker 8: address of this record company.

704
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 3: My house.

705
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 8: Yeah, so there's this daycare center right. Ted's mother answers

706
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 8: the door. She's like very uninviting. She makes me wait

707
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 8: for Ted. I have to sit in this chair that's

708
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 8: like a foot high for little kids. And I'm sitting

709
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 8: there for twenty minutes, like thinking this might not be

710
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 8: the dream job I was thinking it is. Ted shows up,

711
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 8: takes me up to the third floor of this building

712
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 8: in a room with like crumbling plaster. The windows are

713
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 8: nailed shut, and there's a desk and a chair and

714
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 8: a phone, and he shows me the billboard charts and

715
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 8: how to call these retailers and get the record charted.

716
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 8: And he paid me, you know, a couple hundred bucks

717
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 8: a week, and so I was working the Bill Cosby

718
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 8: record and at the time Bill Cosby from The Cosby

719
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 8: Show had done a jazz compilation, right, so there were

720
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 8: two Bill Cosby's records out, and I definitely took advantage

721
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 8: of the confusions.

722
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, I did. And I was calling retailers and and

723
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 5: doing that. And so so.

724
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,280
Speaker 8: We had a session. Ted signed a bunch of artists.

725
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 8: I can't even remember their names, except for Bunny Siglar.

726
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,280
Speaker 8: We did a Bunny Siga record that was pretty cool.

727
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 8: But we we had a session booked at studio for

728
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,879
Speaker 8: one night and I'd only been to studio for once

729
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 8: because I was involved in the WDAS Black History Month

730
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:04,359
Speaker 8: rap compilation that with Eddie d and everything. And so

731
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 8: we go to the session and studio for and our

732
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 8: engineers Joe Nicholo, and I'd never met Joe, you know,

733
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 8: and we're in the session.

734
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:13,879
Speaker 5: We're starting now.

735
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 8: Ted was a pretty boisterous guy in that he was

736
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 8: always bragging him out.

737
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, I got this deal going on with MCA and.

738
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 8: Doing this and doing that and everything, and he's doing

739
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 8: this in the studio and and I guess at one

740
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 8: point I kind of rolled my eyes, like out of

741
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 8: you know, and Joe caught it right right. So when

742
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 8: Ted walks out of the studio, Joe's like, how did

743
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 8: you end up working for this guy?

744
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 5: And he said, well, you know, it's not my dream job,

745
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 5: but you know, I want to start a record label.

746
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 5: And Joe goes like, yeah, well so do I.

747
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 8: You know, so here's my number. You know we should

748
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 8: get up at some point. Nice So that happened, right.

749
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:58,879
Speaker 8: So back at nice Town Records in West Philly, I

750
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 8: was in Ted's all office talking about something and I

751
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 8: see these these records, the yellow labels, and I pick

752
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 8: it up and the song is called Gangster Boogie by

753
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 8: Schoolide and it was on a record label called A

754
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 8: Place to Be Records.

755
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 5: Now, I had known.

756
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 8: About Schoolie for a long time, right, and I know

757
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 8: that you know you remember Bobby Dance and the wind

758
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:28,720
Speaker 8: Ball Oh yeah, okay, so fruit of Ism, security and

759
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 8: all that good stuff. Uh. I knew about his whole thing,

760
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 8: right yeah. And so I said to Ted, I said, so, what, like,

761
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 8: what's going on with these? He goes, oh, yeah, school

762
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 8: He came to me and he wanted, you know, me

763
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 8: to do this and that for him. I told him

764
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 8: I wasn't interested, and I'm like, what, like, let's playlet

765
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 8: Bill Cosby record and Schoolly D comes in, You're not interested?

766
00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 8: So I filched school number out of Ted's Rolodex and

767
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 8: I call him up and I said, look, you know,

768
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 8: my name is Chris Schwartz, and uh, I think I

769
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 8: can help you. And you know, I know distribution and everything.

770
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 8: I think you should start your own label and all

771
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 8: this stuff.

772
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:19,879
Speaker 5: And he goes, yeah, that sounds good man.

773
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 3: You know.

774
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:21,399
Speaker 5: Come on, and where do you live?

775
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 8: And he lives like like a couple of blocks bubb

776
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 8: the daycare center. So we set up a.

777
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 5: Time and I'll never forget this man. I go to

778
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 5: his house. I step up on the porch. I knock

779
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 5: on the door. He answers the door, and he's wearing

780
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 5: a towel and he sees me on his porch. He

781
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 5: sees me on his porch and then he kind of

782
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 5: looks around to see who's seeing me.

783
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 8: On his porch, right, you know, and he goes, yeah, man,

784
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 8: I'm taking a shower and he shuts the door and

785
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 8: I'm standing there like like, you.

786
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 5: Know what what just happened?

787
00:44:58,719 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 3: Right?

788
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 8: So I call him up later on he goes, oh,

789
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 8: you need to talk to my lawyer, Warren Hamilton. And

790
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 8: before I could ask for Warren's number, he hangs up

791
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 8: and I look up Warren. I met with Warren. Eventually

792
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 8: we met all of us, three of us together. I said, look,

793
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 8: I'm gonna, I'm gonna we're gonna shoot some videos. Uh,

794
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 8: We're gonna do this whole thing. I'm gonna get your record,

795
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 8: you know, distributed. Uh, and I'm gonna sit up distribution

796
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 8: and uh. And that's how I started working with him.

797
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 9: And so at the this is at the beginning of PSK. Yeah, yeah,

798
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 9: so how did you he recorded?

799
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,879
Speaker 8: He just recorded PSK and Gucci Time, but he had

800
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 8: not done the album yet, Okay, And we recorded the

801
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 8: album this is a crazy thing. We recorded in Center

802
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 8: City at a little eight trax studio that recorded the

803
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,280
Speaker 8: Philadelphia Orchestra and there.

804
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,919
Speaker 5: Was no no.

805
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 8: No really equipment, and so we they had one of

806
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 8: the old big plate reverbs, right like you know.

807
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 5: What I'm talking about. Yeah, and it was just uh.

808
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,760
Speaker 9: We should also shout out, all right, spawn, what's Jeff's

809
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 9: true last name?

810
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 3: Because I keep on saying.

811
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 8: Jeff Cheese state, No, Jeff Chestick, Jeff, yes, Jeff Why

812
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:20,760
Speaker 8: Are you ready?

813
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,320
Speaker 5: Are you ready about you want to hear Jeff Chesstick

814
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:23,919
Speaker 5: trivia fact?

815
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 3: Yes?

816
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 5: Hit me. Him and I went to junior high together. Really,

817
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:34,879
Speaker 5: I know that I knew Jeff Chestick since nineteen seventy two,

818
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 5: seventy three.

819
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 3: Jeff.

820
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 9: Yeah, when Jeff used to mix here, I forgot what

821
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,840
Speaker 9: project I was working on, but he told me the

822
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,720
Speaker 9: very first story of and he never gave the title.

823
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was so you know, it's like I want

824
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 3: more reverb, more reverb.

825
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 9: And when he did this, I was like, yeah, this

826
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 9: is just like in PSK.

827
00:46:58,160 --> 00:46:59,800
Speaker 3: He's like, well, yeah, mixed that.

828
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 5: And I know you're probably like what, You're like, what? Yeah?

829
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:03,919
Speaker 5: Can I tell you?

830
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,919
Speaker 8: Jeff Jessick we were in a V A V club together, right,

831
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 8: and we did these av projects, right, And this is

832
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 8: in seventh grade. He did this thing where, you know,

833
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 8: because you have audio, you have video equipment, and he

834
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 8: did this thing where it was an elevator going up

835
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 8: in a store and opening up in the different.

836
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 5: Departments and everything. It was really it was clever.

837
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 8: You know, in the seventh grade, I thought the guy

838
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 8: had real talent, you know, chops so so so basically

839
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 8: we're now doing stuff and I was going through it

840
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 8: was a lot of schooly up till then, have been

841
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 8: doing primarily West Philly, North Philly hip hop shows and everything.

842
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 8: And I started sending out his record to like remember

843
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 8: Metro record well, Martin keone, Yes, I do. Next thing,

844
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:09,800
Speaker 8: you know, I'm getting phone calls like these clubs, white

845
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:15,399
Speaker 8: clubs right, loving schooly d right, And I'm sending out

846
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 8: the record to like all these record all these one

847
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,240
Speaker 8: stops and independent distributors.

848
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 5: And like City Hall.

849
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:33,320
Speaker 8: Records in San Francisco, West Coast Record Distributors, Schwartz Brothers

850
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 8: Done in Baltimore, Maryland, Encore Distributors Up and Up in Brooklyn.

851
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 8: And the thing about in the independent record distribution business

852
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 8: at the time is that it's very hard to get paid.

853
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 8: And the reason they're very difficult in paying you is

854
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 8: because if you're a new independent label and you have

855
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 8: a record that goes out there and sells, that's all

856
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 8: fine and well, but what they don't want to do

857
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,800
Speaker 8: is pay you. And then when they get hit turns,

858
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 8: they go to call up and your phone's disconnected, so

859
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 8: you have to you have to have like and I

860
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 8: used to go up. I remember driving up to Encore

861
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 8: distributors in the.

862
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 5: Car and the car.

863
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 8: I'd have a car stacked with records in the back

864
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 8: and in the trunk, and I'd sleep in the parking

865
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 8: lot overnight, you know, wait for these guys to get it,

866
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 8: get it, to get a check, and to give them

867
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,319
Speaker 8: the records. So at one point I got I set

868
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 8: it up to where I was sending out the singles

869
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 8: and they're paying half cod. So the pressing plant and

870
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 8: I had a whole thing set up. And then uh,

871
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:42,479
Speaker 8: these kids would call in different areas and so because

872
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:46,399
Speaker 8: we had no radio airplay, so I started getting these

873
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,919
Speaker 8: kids to take the records to like barbershops, pool halls, retailers.

874
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 5: Because it was just like on a Saturday, where do

875
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 5: you go to find new music? You go to the

876
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 5: record store, beat the market store.

877
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 8: Yeah, so there is a whole thing where you could

878
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:04,800
Speaker 8: release a twelve inch right on a Friday.

879
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 5: You you give it.

880
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 8: To the clubs, you give it to the mix show.

881
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 8: Saturdays you get to guys playing in the store. And

882
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 8: Saturdays there again it's in the mix show and in

883
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:16,720
Speaker 8: the clubs. By Monday, you knew.

884
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 5: If you had something right. It was that fast.

885
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 8: That was the excitement of putting out putting out records.

886
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:24,839
Speaker 3: So they're calling you saying like I need five more.

887
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 5: Yeah and so and so.

888
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 8: Uh we we ran into a little schism with the

889
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:36,359
Speaker 8: sound makers because I was at Downtown Records and up

890
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 8: in New York City one day and I saw that

891
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:44,800
Speaker 8: they had our PSK Gucci Time record and it's our label.

892
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 8: Everything's the same except it says distribute through Warlock Records.

893
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 5: And I thought, wow, this is the search. Yeah, Warlock Records.

894
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 8: That's that's that's you know, Roulette, Morris Levy and Son

895
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 8: Adam Lee or so. So I didn't call Warlock, but

896
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 8: I'll never forget this man. I went to the counter

897
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 8: and there was this guy who's like literally right out

898
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 8: of Central Casting for for you know, big guys.

899
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 5: Yeah Agad. I was about to say, were you your

900
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:18,280
Speaker 5: own collector?

901
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 8: Big thick glasses and a cigar, you know, And he's

902
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,399
Speaker 8: sitting behind the count and he goes, yeah, at least

903
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 8: Warlock can get the records pressed.

904
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 5: Up and delivered when we need them, right, So what

905
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 5: you mean collector?

906
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 9: Like like you were your own distributed like you Yeah?

907
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 5: I did. Yeah I was back in those days though,

908
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 5: didn't you need some muscle. Oh no, no, no, no, no.

909
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 8: The thing is took In terms of collecting, we had

910
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 8: a we had a company set up. It was Schoey Records,

911
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:49,399
Speaker 8: and no I would send them to you know, distribuers,

912
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 8: but we also operated kind of as our own one stop.

913
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 5: Because here's the thing.

914
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:58,800
Speaker 8: Schooly on his own had started out, you know, Chino

915
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 8: at Funko Mart given them records and everything. And that

916
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 8: became a little bit issue issue because when I hooked

917
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 8: us up with Universal, you know, uh, you know, they

918
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 8: they they fronted us the money to press records and

919
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 8: then they go to solicit Funko Mart and these plays

920
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:17,399
Speaker 8: and there.

921
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, that that was school. He was always doing ship

922
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 5: like that.

923
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:29,799
Speaker 8: But so so so.

924
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:35,439
Speaker 5: We uh you know, but a lot of a lot

925
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 5: of really.

926
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 8: Crazy things happened, and and then it's it was amazing

927
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 8: that that the record just suddenly took on this whole momentum,

928
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 8: you know, and suddenly the orders started happening, you know.

929
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 5: And it was and we you know the album.

930
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 3: Were you in a place where like the demand was

931
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 3: sort of demand demand what you could supply.

932
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 8: Yeah, because because I every time I needed Schooy.

933
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:11,320
Speaker 5: To write a check to press up records.

934
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 8: If I needed, you know, six hundred and forty two dollars,

935
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 8: he'd give me two hundred and forty two dollars.

936
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 3: You know.

937
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:23,880
Speaker 8: It was just it was just yeah, it was just

938
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 8: say everything constantly a day late and a dollar short,

939
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:31,080
Speaker 8: you know, day late and a dollar short. I booked

940
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 8: him in a bunch of rock clubs, and you know,

941
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 8: in the in the early days of hip hop, hip

942
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 8: hop promoters for the most part were guys that that

943
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:44,760
Speaker 8: didn't see doing one.

944
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 5: Off hip hop shows. It's like career building blocks. It

945
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 5: was more of a score for them.

946
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 8: So artists get jacked all the time. And because of this,

947
00:53:56,040 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 8: you know, Schoolly always demanded his money up front before

948
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 8: he went on stage. And I get that, right, But

949
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 8: when you're doing a rock club, right, that's a an

950
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 8: established venue that you know that deals with booking agents

951
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 8: and everything like that.

952
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 5: They don't.

953
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 8: They don't stiff bands because if they did, they'd be

954
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 8: Persona and Grada. He'd never be able to book. But

955
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 8: you know, we would do these shows and he'd won

956
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 8: his money up front, and then the idea of these

957
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 8: club managers and he'd have to count the money out

958
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 8: of the receipts and everything. And then the next thing,

959
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:33,480
Speaker 8: you know, he gets on stage and what are hip

960
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 8: hop artist shows in the eighties? Do they do their

961
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 8: couple songs? Then they roll and you got these kids

962
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:44,399
Speaker 8: that drove from Delaware.

963
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 5: And they're like, yeah, so that was that was a

964
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 5: whole mess.

965
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:55,840
Speaker 8: And you know, but anyhow, so I called it Joe.

966
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:58,320
Speaker 8: I had that business card from Studio four.

967
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:02,280
Speaker 5: And we, uh, we.

968
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 8: Got together, decided let's start this record label. And I

969
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 8: was managing Schooly and my first office, you know the

970
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:14,400
Speaker 8: you know the building, you know the my first office

971
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:17,279
Speaker 8: was when you get down into that basement floor when

972
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 8: you come through the door the Studio four built, right,

973
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 8: they built because Larry. They built a b room for

974
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 8: Larry to put Larry gold. But it's in clavier and there, well,

975
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 8: there was a vestibule. There was a vestibule between that

976
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:33,760
Speaker 8: that room and the hallway right.

977
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 5: That was my office.

978
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 8: It was like four feet wide and uh, my desk

979
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 8: was made of plywood covered with red vinyl because it

980
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 8: was the original reception just for the studio, right, and

981
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 8: I had a little lamp and Joe bought in like

982
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 8: a pink princess phone from home, and that was that was.

983
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 5: The phone and and that's.

984
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 8: Where that's where we that's where the actual business started.

985
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,280
Speaker 5: And then we moved into that of the other room,

986
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:01,959
Speaker 5: which is.

987
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 3: The bigger room that I know. Okay, wow, so.

988
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 8: But no, yeah, and then we moved down the hall

989
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:11,480
Speaker 8: later on took over that whole area down the hall too.

990
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:12,879
Speaker 3: I missed.

991
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:15,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know what I gotta.

992
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 8: Tell you, man, I Uh, it's funny because got years later.

993
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 8: You know, you get you go thro these peers where

994
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 8: you have gold platinum records every year and it's just

995
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 8: never ending. But I look back on those days and

996
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 8: I was like, I was always broke, but I just

997
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 8: had so much fun, you know.

998
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:38,879
Speaker 3: The time of your life.

999
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:44,759
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1000
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 9: So when was rough House as we know it officially

1001
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 9: officially born?

1002
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 5: We we we first, first we started.

1003
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 8: We had this really stupid in ambiguous name, Pyramid Productions.

1004
00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:05,240
Speaker 8: I don't know how that came about, but that lasted

1005
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 8: for like about a couple months, and Roughhouse, I have

1006
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 8: to say, was probably born.

1007
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 5: I want to say eighty six, maybe.

1008
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 8: Eighty six, I don't, I know it's in my book

1009
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 8: because I had to put together a bunch of events

1010
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 8: to you know, to figure out when it happened, but

1011
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 8: I know where it happened. We were in Arthur Man's office,

1012
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 8: our attorney who later went on to found raich ODIs,

1013
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,479
Speaker 8: the first CD label and the history of music, which

1014
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:44,919
Speaker 8: was an amazing thing. And there was a cassette by

1015
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:49,919
Speaker 8: some rock band called rough House roug h and Joe said,

1016
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 8: you know, that'd be a great name for a record.

1017
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:54,360
Speaker 5: Label, and I was thinking, yeah, it's like, you know,

1018
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 5: and I.

1019
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 8: Had a pretty rough house growing up, you know, my

1020
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 8: childhood and everything. Uh, but we should change it to

1021
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 8: our U F F to keep it you know, yeah, keep.

1022
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 5: It rough And and that was really the birth of

1023
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 5: the label.

1024
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 8: Our first artist was a was an artist named uh

1025
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 8: Mac Money uh me and Mack Evans her. She she

1026
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 8: she was a Philly battle rapper who did a answer

1027
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 8: record to PSK. Really yeah it was actually it was

1028
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 8: really good, and so we we signed her. And about

1029
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 8: there was a group called the Dead Milkman.

1030
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 5: Do you remember the Dead Milkman rock group?

1031
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1032
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 8: Uh, well their managers. They were distributed by a company

1033
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 8: on the West Coast called Enigma.

1034
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:44,160
Speaker 5: Enigma was a.

1035
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 8: Was uh a company that did really obscure alternative like

1036
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 8: Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds right here. Let me

1037
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 8: tell you how obscure this music was. I was living

1038
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 8: on Gerard Avenue and uh I had body, a Jaguar and.

1039
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 5: X J six.

1040
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 8: Somebody broke into my car one night, and when we

1041
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 8: went out to Enigma, they gave us all these records

1042
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 8: to bring home, right, and so I had all these

1043
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 8: all these uh cassettes of all these different artists, these

1044
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 8: rock artists. Somebody broke into my car, went in the

1045
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 8: glove compartment and they took everything excepted anything that was

1046
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 8: released on Enigma. Whoever, whoever the car thief was, he

1047
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 8: basically took his time decided, deciding, deciding which, which which

1048
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:46,880
Speaker 8: records he wanted.

1049
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 9: Steve, remember that happened to us. Yeah, someone broke into

1050
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 9: my car and.

1051
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 3: Left the roots albums. No they they they I had.

1052
00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 9: Uh Johnny I just seen walked the line. So I

1053
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 9: was like, all right, let me buy everything, Johnny Cash.

1054
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 9: I went and brought the Johnny Cash box set all

1055
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 9: this stuff, and.

1056
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 3: Then I like brought Orange Johnson.

1057
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 9: Joni Mitchell's like working stuff, and they like left everything

1058
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 9: and I pair Converse sneakers and my door was open.

1059
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 9: I got there and I was like, wait, someone broke

1060
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 9: in my car. But I was like, why didn't they

1061
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 9: take anything? And Steve looked and he's like, this is

1062
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 9: why they didn't want another. Oh see, you guys started

1063
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 9: in eighty six. I remember you guys went through like

1064
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 9: a couple of logos. So that's how I know the

1065
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 9: progression of the label. I first heard of you guys,

1066
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:47,840
Speaker 9: I guess through.

1067
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:52,680
Speaker 3: Uh was Larry your first album signing.

1068
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 5: Or Larry Larr?

1069
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1070
01:00:54,160 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 8: Uh no, we had a group called Blackmail. Larry Larr

1071
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 8: was one of the first. I don't know if he

1072
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 8: was absolutely the first, okay, but it's funny because he

1073
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:14,400
Speaker 8: was definitely before Tim Dog.

1074
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 5: I was waiting.

1075
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:22,560
Speaker 3: I was just waiting, Yeah Dog, is he all right?

1076
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 3: All right?

1077
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 5: What do you guess?

1078
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:24,520
Speaker 3: Is okay?

1079
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 9: Where's he at? Where's Tim Dog? I know one of

1080
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:28,000
Speaker 9: the joints he finessed.

1081
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 3: So you don't think you don't think he's dead. Oh,

1082
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 3: I don't think he's dead at all.

1083
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 5: You think no, I think I think he's dead. Man. Now,

1084
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 5: I hope I get I.

1085
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 8: Just said my book, I said in Memoriam, you know,

1086
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 8: to himself, I'm pretty sure.

1087
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 5: I'm pretty sure he passed away. Because he was sick.

1088
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:52,440
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, okay, yeah, okay, So do you all know

1089
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 3: the scandal? Yes, Tim Dog?

1090
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, what's the short of Tim Dog?

1091
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 10: He was basically like meeting chicks online and like finessing

1092
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 10: amount of money and ship and then he and then

1093
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 10: he died quote unquote, quote unquote putting that record out, man, Like,

1094
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 10: were y'all what was the thought?

1095
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 3: Were y'all worried about?

1096
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 9: You know?

1097
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:18,919
Speaker 8: It was a it was it was a dicey proposition.

1098
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 8: But you know, I said to Tim at one point, right,

1099
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 8: I said, you know this is you can't you can't

1100
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 8: go and tour on the West coast, dude.

1101
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 5: It's just you know, you're and and he got this

1102
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 5: whole thing.

1103
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 8: Yeah exactly, he said, he goes, I'm just in gangs

1104
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 8: and everything and all that stuff. But you know, the

1105
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 8: crazy thing was is that that record, like I forgot

1106
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 8: where it charted. I think it went to maybe number

1107
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:54,120
Speaker 8: seven or number five on on the on the Rap

1108
01:02:54,160 --> 01:03:01,040
Speaker 8: Singles chart. But it was the first ever music video

1109
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 8: that was sold as a commercial release. We sold, yeah,

1110
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 8: we sold over one hundred thousand vhs is for.

1111
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 5: Nine ninety nine.

1112
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:11,880
Speaker 3: Wow.

1113
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, sou And you know it's crazy to the album

1114
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 8: Penicillin on Wax.

1115
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 5: This is like hip hop at this point started really.

1116
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:29,520
Speaker 8: Becoming, you know, like an album oriented thing where if

1117
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 8: you if you if you had a hit hip hop

1118
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:35,520
Speaker 8: single in the early eighties and you did an album,

1119
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:38,360
Speaker 8: it was a good guess that your album was going

1120
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:39,200
Speaker 8: to do well.

1121
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:40,520
Speaker 5: Because the single drove it.

1122
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:43,560
Speaker 8: But then I think, you know, the fans really started

1123
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:48,560
Speaker 8: to want more of a narrative, you know, and Tim Yeah,

1124
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 8: and Tim could not break out of that narrative, you know,

1125
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 8: his narrative. He could not, he could not expand on it.

1126
01:03:55,840 --> 01:04:00,120
Speaker 8: But the production on the album because some company he

1127
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:03,520
Speaker 8: did created something it was like where you can mix

1128
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 8: in quad. It was really cool, and they let Joe

1129
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 8: hold onto this machine for for like a month or

1130
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 8: so and he mixed the Tim Dog album on it.

1131
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 8: And I'll never forget listening to that headphones. So I

1132
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:19,240
Speaker 8: was like, God, this sounds so amazing. Just but yeah,

1133
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:21,120
Speaker 8: the record didn't really.

1134
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:24,280
Speaker 10: Yeah, I bought it because at that time that was

1135
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 10: when like just rough house, like I would buy anything.

1136
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 10: I saw the label on the label, so I was like,

1137
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:33,200
Speaker 10: I'm like all right, and I came to appreciate that

1138
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 10: much later me a shout out to my man Jayson,

1139
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 10: who was like, we're like the only two people in

1140
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:42,480
Speaker 10: the world at rob fendersing long wax. Oh yeah, it's

1141
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 10: I mean, if you look at it, it's like, I mean,

1142
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 10: it's comedy, but it's just it's just a man just

1143
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:48,960
Speaker 10: hollering and that ship is amazing.

1144
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 3: He has a song.

1145
01:04:58,440 --> 01:04:58,720
Speaker 5: Robbed.

1146
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 9: Also, how did how did you guys get connected with Cyprus?

1147
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 3: So?

1148
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:20,920
Speaker 8: I uh, while managing school starting the label, I also did.

1149
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:25,480
Speaker 8: I promoted shows at post shows at the Chocadaro and

1150
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:27,480
Speaker 8: the Chestnut Cabaret.

1151
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 5: Yeah and uh.

1152
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 8: I also managed a group called Executive Slacks. Executive Slacks

1153
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 8: for my best way to describe what they were it

1154
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:43,200
Speaker 8: was nine Inch Nails.

1155
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 5: Years before Nine Inch Nails Wow.

1156
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:48,040
Speaker 8: As a matter of fact, the same label Network Records

1157
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 8: up in Canada used to license the Slacks off of us.

1158
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:57,040
Speaker 8: It was a It was a drummer named Bobby Ray

1159
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:02,800
Speaker 8: who played standing up playing those electronic drums, and a

1160
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:07,720
Speaker 8: keyboard player and a singer name and the play guitar

1161
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:11,400
Speaker 8: named Matt Morello. I'll tell you one record that you know.

1162
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:15,920
Speaker 8: I just tell everybody if they're even vaguely curious about

1163
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:20,040
Speaker 8: this group. It's called Fire and Ice and it's an

1164
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:25,360
Speaker 8: awesome record and it's real techno rock. But way back,

1165
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:31,600
Speaker 8: long before this stuff really came of age. So so

1166
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:34,800
Speaker 8: there was a A and R guy at Geffen Records

1167
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:40,240
Speaker 8: in Los Angeles named Meo Vukovic and Mio was a

1168
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:42,959
Speaker 8: DJ prior to becoming an A and R guy.

1169
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:45,360
Speaker 5: And there was another guy who was an A and

1170
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 5: R guy who was a He was a lawyer for

1171
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:48,360
Speaker 5: Warner Bros.

1172
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:50,640
Speaker 8: Records, who became an A and R guy, and him

1173
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:56,240
Speaker 8: and Meo kind of formed like a partnership. And MEO's

1174
01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 8: two favorite artists in the world was schooly D and

1175
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 8: Executive Slacks. And so he called me up one day

1176
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:10,520
Speaker 8: and we got to know each other. He flew out,

1177
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:14,560
Speaker 8: we hung out, and him and Jeff had signed two

1178
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:17,959
Speaker 8: hip hop artists to Geffen. One of them was a

1179
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:23,760
Speaker 8: group called seven A three and they were produced by

1180
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 8: Lawrence Muggs Mugga Rood.

1181
01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:30,280
Speaker 5: And the other group was a group.

1182
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 8: Called Silk Times Leather Yeah, I remember, by Jermaine dupri So.

1183
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:41,440
Speaker 8: Those projects were what they were, you know, they I

1184
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:45,760
Speaker 8: just they just didn't happen. But Joe mixed them and

1185
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:49,160
Speaker 8: I helped mark and pro the singles. Now you remember

1186
01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:51,360
Speaker 8: at this point, I also I also had a market.

1187
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:53,760
Speaker 8: I was marketing records for other labels because all the

1188
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:56,120
Speaker 8: labels that couldn't sign, you know, we end up signing

1189
01:07:56,120 --> 01:07:56,480
Speaker 8: school you.

1190
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:57,320
Speaker 5: To Drive records.

1191
01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:03,200
Speaker 8: But every label, one of them, every budd Electra Warner's Capital,

1192
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 8: they all wanted to sign Schoolly. So the so the

1193
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:10,400
Speaker 8: the guys that didn't didn't sign them, they signed their

1194
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:13,440
Speaker 8: hip hop out act say, they called me up and

1195
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:14,720
Speaker 8: they say, can you help us?

1196
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:19,240
Speaker 5: Right, so now I have like this little company doing this.

1197
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:26,840
Speaker 8: Uh Roseman who I was. I was engaged to Rose

1198
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:30,679
Speaker 8: at the time, and she started doing retail promotion and

1199
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:34,280
Speaker 8: Jackie Paul the rap chart editor for his magazine.

1200
01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 5: So we had a little company, right.

1201
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:41,439
Speaker 8: So we worked Easy E, n W A, Tone, Loak,

1202
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 8: Young MC, a whole host of other records. So we

1203
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:49,640
Speaker 8: did this whole thing with with Geffen for seven eight

1204
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:52,759
Speaker 8: three and Silk Time's Leather. Uh, we mark and promote

1205
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:56,519
Speaker 8: the record and Joe mixed it and the records didn't happen.

1206
01:08:57,360 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 8: But you know, we started a relationship with Jermaine and

1207
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:06,879
Speaker 8: his father Michael Malton Michael. Michael was the tour manager

1208
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:10,640
Speaker 8: for the Fresh Fest and and did a lot of

1209
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:16,320
Speaker 8: stuff with Russell and def Jam and everything. Right, So,

1210
01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:25,479
Speaker 8: so Joe was out in La working mixing Meloman Ace

1211
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:31,080
Speaker 8: uh Mentor and Meloman is Send's brother from Cypress Hill,

1212
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:34,479
Speaker 8: and so Meloman was telling Joe, you should check out

1213
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 8: my brother's hip hop group, which was coincidentally produced by Mugs.

1214
01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 8: So Joe brings this cassette home and we listened to

1215
01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:49,759
Speaker 8: it and we're digging it and everything. And it's funny

1216
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 8: because we we went up to Columbia that day and

1217
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:56,760
Speaker 8: I'll never forget because Joe's brother Phil came with us

1218
01:09:57,160 --> 01:10:00,599
Speaker 8: and we had a meeting with a schedule with Kep Woodley,

1219
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:05,519
Speaker 8: who was our a R Kevin up there, and when

1220
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:10,000
Speaker 8: we got there, they said Kevin's no longer here, and

1221
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:12,400
Speaker 8: it's like, oh, well, what's thee know?

1222
01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:14,800
Speaker 5: Oh but yeah, you guys, you could talk to Kurt

1223
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:16,760
Speaker 5: Woodley and Kurt replaced him.

1224
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 8: So one Woodley's out, the other Woodley's in no relation

1225
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:24,360
Speaker 8: and Kurt, Kurt was kind of cut from a different

1226
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 8: cloth and are wise, he was more more i think,

1227
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 8: much more kind of in tune intuitive with everything that

1228
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 8: was going on, and Kurt wasn't feeling Larry Layer, and

1229
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:39,840
Speaker 8: he was unapologetic about it, you know, and we went

1230
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:42,200
Speaker 8: round and round, and Kurt's whole thing was it he

1231
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:48,439
Speaker 8: felt that the Will Smith Dougie Fresh storytelling style of

1232
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:49,040
Speaker 8: hip hop.

1233
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:51,240
Speaker 3: You know. Yeah, you know.

1234
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:53,200
Speaker 5: I didn't even tell the whole Cheeba story. But that's

1235
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:54,280
Speaker 5: all right, we don't need to get in that.

1236
01:10:55,080 --> 01:10:59,080
Speaker 8: Cheeba was actually our first record with with Columbia, right

1237
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:05,599
Speaker 8: when we did and and so when we left, as

1238
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:09,800
Speaker 8: I'm leaving, I give him a copy of the Cypresil tape.

1239
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:12,760
Speaker 8: I said, well, you might dig this in, right, And

1240
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:16,599
Speaker 8: he called me up that night and he said, he goes, oh, man,

1241
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 8: that's Cypricil. He goes, I played that for Donnie. That's like,

1242
01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:21,599
Speaker 8: we got to do this.

1243
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:25,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, Donnie. And and so.

1244
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 8: Cyprecil what happened to have been in the studio they

1245
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:33,799
Speaker 8: were cutting five songs for their publishing deal of BMG,

1246
01:11:34,720 --> 01:11:38,599
Speaker 8: and so we offered a singles deal and they sent

1247
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 8: us the five songs and then it became an album deal.

1248
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:48,519
Speaker 9: And so that was such a groundbreaking. If you remember

1249
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:53,719
Speaker 9: who Hans Soeul was, I met my soul from well

1250
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:58,519
Speaker 9: you were not the one that yeah, no imagination.

1251
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:03,320
Speaker 3: He had like this spiked or this hair.

1252
01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:07,920
Speaker 5: Well he's a gospel rapper now.

1253
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:11,400
Speaker 8: Yeah, but back then, back then, he was part of

1254
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:15,840
Speaker 8: that that like that school of like like kuame and yeah,

1255
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:16,519
Speaker 8: that whole.

1256
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:19,439
Speaker 9: So we have met Hans so on the on the

1257
01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:25,519
Speaker 9: at the Motown Philly video and Hans lived about maybe

1258
01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 9: twelve blocks away from me, but during the crack area,

1259
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:34,000
Speaker 9: twelve blocks is you know, well twelve blocks that might

1260
01:12:34,040 --> 01:12:39,400
Speaker 9: be twenty blocks and crackers crackers. So it's like seven

1261
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 9: pm and he's like, yo, man, I just came back

1262
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:46,800
Speaker 9: from New York's at he's I came, I came back

1263
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:51,960
Speaker 9: from New York. Yo, I'm gonna change your life. He said,

1264
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,240
Speaker 9: y'all got to get here. Me and Tarik we were

1265
01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:55,479
Speaker 9: like his little interns, you.

1266
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:56,799
Speaker 5: Know whatever, always rolling around.

1267
01:12:56,920 --> 01:13:00,240
Speaker 9: Hans is really responsible for Tarik being the freestyle aster

1268
01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:02,519
Speaker 9: he is now because Hans used to do that a lot.

1269
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 9: So we like, all right, it's gonna be nighttime running

1270
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:11,719
Speaker 9: through West Philly. Somehow we got to Hans's block and

1271
01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:15,120
Speaker 9: he's like he no build up. He just said, listen

1272
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:19,320
Speaker 9: to this first song he plays the Summertime by Jazz.

1273
01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:21,640
Speaker 3: He's from the press, Prince and we couldn't guess. He's like, yes,

1274
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:22,160
Speaker 3: who this.

1275
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:24,439
Speaker 9: Is and we still didn't know that was Will and

1276
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:27,160
Speaker 9: Jeff like by the second verse with rock.

1277
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:32,679
Speaker 3: Him and then he puts pigs on ship.

1278
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:39,400
Speaker 9: And we were like, what the hell?

1279
01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:40,439
Speaker 3: We just.

1280
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:46,080
Speaker 8: We many have the scanners and everything, and see you

1281
01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:47,720
Speaker 8: know the machine I was telling you about that he

1282
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:50,920
Speaker 8: mixed Pilson on wax with the quad. Use that for

1283
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:56,759
Speaker 8: the police scanners, you know, like crazy, Yeah, No, Joe's

1284
01:13:56,760 --> 01:13:57,120
Speaker 8: no joke.

1285
01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:01,400
Speaker 10: Now that album sucked me up, man, that's.

1286
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:02,160
Speaker 3: It, and it came from nowhere.

1287
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:05,640
Speaker 5: Well here's here's here's the other thing too. It's that

1288
01:14:06,439 --> 01:14:13,479
Speaker 5: it's that we ship like thirty thousand plus albums.

1289
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:18,960
Speaker 8: And you you're seeing the bugs bunny that you know,

1290
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:21,680
Speaker 8: the thing where he jumps out on stage and there's crickets.

1291
01:14:22,880 --> 01:14:23,640
Speaker 5: That's what it was like.

1292
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:28,200
Speaker 8: It was like nothing, nothing right, And the weeks are

1293
01:14:28,200 --> 01:14:32,680
Speaker 8: going by and it's like, what's going on here, you know,

1294
01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:33,520
Speaker 8: and people.

1295
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:37,879
Speaker 5: Are calling DJ's are people we're loving this record? But nothing,

1296
01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:45,400
Speaker 5: and then uh, the B side of the One Killer

1297
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:54,680
Speaker 5: Man ends up in Juice where omar but he's a

1298
01:14:55,320 --> 01:14:58,080
Speaker 5: Tupaka Shore's character is chasing Omar ev.

1299
01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:01,680
Speaker 8: You you could watch, you could sit there in the

1300
01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 8: theater and you can suddenly see people like you know,

1301
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:09,479
Speaker 8: and then it just exploded. Now it's on fifty thousand

1302
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:11,479
Speaker 8: copies a week, and it's just.

1303
01:15:11,439 --> 01:15:13,680
Speaker 10: Like because I bought the Juice soundtrack thinking it was

1304
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:14,840
Speaker 10: on that and it wasn't.

1305
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:16,800
Speaker 3: But shoot him up on the Yah.

1306
01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:24,040
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's just it was just it's it's it was

1307
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:27,200
Speaker 8: like just a real innovative master.

1308
01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:27,519
Speaker 5: Wait.

1309
01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:35,599
Speaker 9: Speaking of studio, for where is uh? Where is Kravits today?

1310
01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:41,240
Speaker 9: Studio for West Coast? He has a studio for in

1311
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:41,840
Speaker 9: the West.

1312
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:45,000
Speaker 8: It's I think it's in Venice Beach. Andy funky drummer,

1313
01:15:45,880 --> 01:15:46,719
Speaker 8: drummer Kravitz.

1314
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:51,320
Speaker 5: You know what, I'm going to give props, you know,

1315
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:57,280
Speaker 5: Andy to me and for where you know what I

1316
01:15:57,360 --> 01:16:00,000
Speaker 5: knew at the time, I just saw.

1317
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:04,479
Speaker 8: But the guy was the most incredible gefted musician. You know,

1318
01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:09,960
Speaker 8: him and I, you know, we started out cool, and

1319
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:11,840
Speaker 8: then there was a period where we didn't get along

1320
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:14,559
Speaker 8: for a long time, you know, but then later on

1321
01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:17,639
Speaker 8: he ended up moving uh to a house near our

1322
01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:22,000
Speaker 8: our wives, you know, became friends and you know, uh,

1323
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:26,439
Speaker 8: but he yeah, he started the Studio four West, Studio

1324
01:16:26,479 --> 01:16:26,920
Speaker 8: four West.

1325
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:35,000
Speaker 9: Okay, the time that I met you at the one

1326
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:38,280
Speaker 9: of those Philly Hall of Fame thing, my Jiggers or

1327
01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:40,280
Speaker 9: whatever you you and Roseman.

1328
01:16:40,040 --> 01:16:41,000
Speaker 5: Was there, yep.

1329
01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:45,639
Speaker 9: And really, I mean yeah, I was there to see

1330
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:48,560
Speaker 9: my dad get inducted, but really I was trying to

1331
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:50,280
Speaker 9: make a bee line to YouTube to see if that

1332
01:16:50,479 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 9: I could intern at Studio four. And this is right,

1333
01:16:56,479 --> 01:17:00,880
Speaker 9: this is right on the crest of Chris Cross, like, yeah,

1334
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:07,920
Speaker 9: about to dominate the world. And yeah, I think you

1335
01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:10,640
Speaker 9: guys hired me on the on the on the on

1336
01:17:10,760 --> 01:17:11,760
Speaker 9: the strength of.

1337
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:17,719
Speaker 3: That Chris Ross Cross was blowing up so fast.

1338
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:22,040
Speaker 9: Yeah, because my first day there I was I felt

1339
01:17:22,080 --> 01:17:24,040
Speaker 9: like I was part of the Michael Jackson Dangerous Tour.

1340
01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:28,240
Speaker 5: I was mailing all these I remember.

1341
01:17:28,479 --> 01:17:30,200
Speaker 8: I remember the first time I ever saw you. You

1342
01:17:30,240 --> 01:17:32,920
Speaker 8: were sitting there at the big conference table. And the

1343
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:35,360
Speaker 8: thing is, it's a tony. They gave me this Q

1344
01:17:35,439 --> 01:17:37,400
Speaker 8: and a thing for my book, and they you know,

1345
01:17:37,479 --> 01:17:39,559
Speaker 8: they one of the questions was about you and everything.

1346
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:41,960
Speaker 8: And they said and I said, I remember you had

1347
01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:43,759
Speaker 8: a knapsack on, right.

1348
01:17:44,120 --> 01:17:46,959
Speaker 5: And you didn't take it off never and I thought.

1349
01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:50,320
Speaker 8: Like, so, so I'm walking, so I said, you know,

1350
01:17:50,760 --> 01:17:53,640
Speaker 8: this kid's got a knapsack on, like it must be

1351
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:56,360
Speaker 8: kind of uncomfortable sitting there wearing a knapsack.

1352
01:17:55,960 --> 01:17:57,479
Speaker 5: Stuffing records and and everything.

1353
01:17:57,840 --> 01:17:59,760
Speaker 8: And then like I walked past a half hour lady

1354
01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:04,719
Speaker 8: had the knapsack on, and I thought, well, maybe he's

1355
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:08,519
Speaker 8: afraid that somebody's gonna snatch it if he puts it down.

1356
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:12,479
Speaker 9: You know, like you know, I always carry my soundtrack

1357
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:15,519
Speaker 9: with me every every superhero needs some music.

1358
01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:20,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, Chris gross record. I'll tell you this.

1359
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:26,639
Speaker 9: If if things start blowing up, then it's Tommy and

1360
01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 9: Donnie and Kevin.

1361
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:31,880
Speaker 3: Glin Kevin, Kevin's here. Okay, so he seemed philly. Yeah.

1362
01:18:32,200 --> 01:18:36,200
Speaker 9: So if it's like a major, if it's lynk Q

1363
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:38,000
Speaker 9: or Larry Ladry, then it's like, oh that's what I.

1364
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:39,879
Speaker 5: Felt, lynk Q. That's that's a good.

1365
01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:45,360
Speaker 9: But you know, if things start getting successful, then it's

1366
01:18:45,439 --> 01:18:47,800
Speaker 9: suddenly sony like, yes, that was all us.

1367
01:18:47,880 --> 01:18:49,960
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, oh yeah, no, I'll tell you what it was.

1368
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:52,200
Speaker 5: It was so funny. What's the politics And well, oh

1369
01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:55,880
Speaker 5: my god, dude, I did.

1370
01:18:56,800 --> 01:19:02,599
Speaker 8: I was on CNN Power Lunch thing right doing an interview,

1371
01:19:03,680 --> 01:19:08,040
Speaker 8: and then my my cell phone rings and it's an

1372
01:19:08,400 --> 01:19:12,000
Speaker 8: executive from Columbia Records, who I just won't I don't

1373
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:13,880
Speaker 8: want to embarrass him, so I'm not gonna mention his name.

1374
01:19:14,320 --> 01:19:19,679
Speaker 8: But he was saying, you know, Chris, you know, he goes,

1375
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:22,080
Speaker 8: I gotta tell you something. You know, Tommy really likes you.

1376
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:24,880
Speaker 8: I said, yeah, what I like Tommy. Yeah, but you

1377
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:27,960
Speaker 8: know what, man, you know, Tommy likes his guys to

1378
01:19:28,040 --> 01:19:32,200
Speaker 8: be like, you know, laid back and so this and so.

1379
01:19:32,800 --> 01:19:36,320
Speaker 5: Here's the thing. This this guy is talking to me.

1380
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:40,439
Speaker 8: He's coming through like on this frequency that I'd never

1381
01:19:40,520 --> 01:19:44,040
Speaker 8: heard from him before, you know. And then I kind

1382
01:19:44,040 --> 01:19:47,519
Speaker 8: of put it together that he's sitting there talking to

1383
01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:50,719
Speaker 8: me and Tommy's sitting right there, and then he starts

1384
01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:54,599
Speaker 8: telling me stuff like, well, you know, like you know, Tommy,

1385
01:19:54,720 --> 01:19:57,320
Speaker 8: like you know, he's really like, you know, Tommy's a star,

1386
01:19:57,640 --> 01:19:59,000
Speaker 8: He's a star, and all.

1387
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:00,240
Speaker 5: This stuff and this whole thing.

1388
01:20:01,040 --> 01:20:07,839
Speaker 8: But when Crisscross happened, there was a picture of Tommy,

1389
01:20:08,760 --> 01:20:14,320
Speaker 8: Donnie and Me and Crisscross staying in front of us

1390
01:20:15,360 --> 01:20:20,760
Speaker 8: and Rolling Stone magazine like two weeks.

1391
01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:24,240
Speaker 5: Later there is the picture, but where did I go.

1392
01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:28,439
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, it was like that all the time.

1393
01:20:29,200 --> 01:20:33,200
Speaker 5: Really, yeah, yeah, I got When we get.

1394
01:20:33,080 --> 01:20:36,280
Speaker 8: To another when we get to another part of the story,

1395
01:20:36,479 --> 01:20:40,160
Speaker 8: I'll tell you something that's really just and I can't

1396
01:20:40,200 --> 01:20:41,439
Speaker 8: believe I had fallen for it.

1397
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:44,760
Speaker 9: But but you became a star on your own, right though, Chris,

1398
01:20:44,760 --> 01:20:47,320
Speaker 9: because we see you on and everywhere.

1399
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:49,639
Speaker 8: Yeah, but but you know, I wasn't. I wasn't trying.

1400
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:53,120
Speaker 8: You know, I wasn't trying. I uh But the Criss

1401
01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:57,160
Speaker 8: Cross record, and I'll make I'll make an admission here

1402
01:20:57,400 --> 01:21:00,600
Speaker 8: that you know I talk about in the book. I

1403
01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:03,920
Speaker 8: I didn't like the song that wasn't When we got

1404
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:07,960
Speaker 8: the Crisscross, Like the demos, they had a song little

1405
01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 8: Boys in the Hood, right, and what it was about

1406
01:21:11,680 --> 01:21:15,720
Speaker 8: it was about two kids twelve years old trying to

1407
01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:16,840
Speaker 8: make that decision.

1408
01:21:17,160 --> 01:21:18,040
Speaker 5: Okay, well my.

1409
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:22,080
Speaker 8: Role models are like, you know, these the gangsters with

1410
01:21:22,120 --> 01:21:24,360
Speaker 8: the clothes and the cash and the cars and ever

1411
01:21:24,400 --> 01:21:26,479
Speaker 8: that do I want to do that? Or do I

1412
01:21:26,520 --> 01:21:29,439
Speaker 8: want to do this? And I thought that was a

1413
01:21:29,479 --> 01:21:33,519
Speaker 8: really interesting thing for a hip hop record, you know,

1414
01:21:34,040 --> 01:21:37,479
Speaker 8: like that and coming from these little kids. So that's

1415
01:21:37,600 --> 01:21:41,799
Speaker 8: what I thought was going to be, right, Jump didn't

1416
01:21:41,920 --> 01:21:48,240
Speaker 8: happen until later on in the project, and it was

1417
01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:50,760
Speaker 8: it was I just kind of thought it was a

1418
01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:56,360
Speaker 8: noisy little song, you know, And it's a noisy, little

1419
01:21:56,760 --> 01:22:02,920
Speaker 8: like annoying, little like, you know thing, and so so

1420
01:22:03,200 --> 01:22:08,000
Speaker 8: Michael Maldon, David Kahn at Columbia Records and our guy,

1421
01:22:08,280 --> 01:22:10,920
Speaker 8: he said, you guys should put a baseline on this song.

1422
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:13,360
Speaker 5: So Joe goes and puts a bassline on it, and

1423
01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:14,040
Speaker 5: they mix it.

1424
01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:17,760
Speaker 8: And I was leaving rough house one night and this

1425
01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:20,400
Speaker 8: one we had the one room office, the glass doors,

1426
01:22:20,960 --> 01:22:24,320
Speaker 8: and a fax came to remember facts is Facts comes

1427
01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:29,200
Speaker 8: through and it was from Michael Maldon and said, Chris

1428
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:35,920
Speaker 8: Jump is going to be a number one song. Smash Michael,

1429
01:22:37,360 --> 01:22:39,920
Speaker 8: I should have kept that. I should have kept it, Okay.

1430
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:48,360
Speaker 8: So here's what happened. We Rosie Perez was the talent

1431
01:22:48,479 --> 01:22:54,720
Speaker 8: coordinator for In Living Color and Rich had shot Rich

1432
01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:58,080
Speaker 8: Murray shot to Criscross video down at Lanta. It was

1433
01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:00,599
Speaker 8: the first time it ever snowed in Lanta, like thirty

1434
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:04,080
Speaker 8: two years, right, And we shot the video for like

1435
01:23:04,160 --> 01:23:09,439
Speaker 8: eighteen thousand dollars right right, And they performed on In

1436
01:23:09,560 --> 01:23:12,519
Speaker 8: Living Color the next day.

1437
01:23:13,640 --> 01:23:16,200
Speaker 5: We're my wife and I. I lived on Sitting.

1438
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:18,280
Speaker 8: Line Avenue, and my wife and I were at the

1439
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:22,639
Speaker 8: Overbrook Diner and I was really hungover and my wife

1440
01:23:22,720 --> 01:23:28,839
Speaker 8: was giving me a bunch of shit and.

1441
01:23:26,640 --> 01:23:29,720
Speaker 5: And I was just like, all I wanted to do

1442
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:33,640
Speaker 5: was just eat. And you know, it was the weekend.

1443
01:23:33,840 --> 01:23:39,960
Speaker 5: And but I'm hearing this older, middle aged couple sitting

1444
01:23:40,160 --> 01:23:41,120
Speaker 5: Caddy Quarter.

1445
01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:45,280
Speaker 8: From us, and the guy was going on and on

1446
01:23:45,640 --> 01:23:46,840
Speaker 8: about Crisscross.

1447
01:23:47,160 --> 01:23:49,040
Speaker 5: Right, this older white guy, he.

1448
01:23:49,040 --> 01:23:51,880
Speaker 8: Goes, these kids were so amazing and blah blah blah

1449
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:53,920
Speaker 8: blah blah blah, And I thought, wow.

1450
01:23:54,040 --> 01:23:55,439
Speaker 5: I looked at Mer and I said, I think this

1451
01:23:55,520 --> 01:23:59,000
Speaker 5: record's gonna this record's gonna blow up. And uh yeah

1452
01:23:59,080 --> 01:24:01,640
Speaker 5: it was. Uh it was like a behemoth.

1453
01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:08,200
Speaker 9: Can I ask one question about Jump besides the money,

1454
01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:15,240
Speaker 9: but uh, can you clarify something? So obviously my guess

1455
01:24:15,320 --> 01:24:17,560
Speaker 9: is the backstory with Jump around?

1456
01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:19,639
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I'll tell you all about.

1457
01:24:19,479 --> 01:24:23,160
Speaker 9: It, right of course the end of the record Joe

1458
01:24:23,200 --> 01:24:27,160
Speaker 9: the bier Nicola right.

1459
01:24:25,880 --> 01:24:29,479
Speaker 5: Which, Okay, My my guess is.

1460
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:40,519
Speaker 9: That because both acts recorded for rough House not no wait,

1461
01:24:40,560 --> 01:24:41,920
Speaker 9: let me let me get my theory out.

1462
01:24:42,080 --> 01:24:42,519
Speaker 3: See if.

1463
01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:49,120
Speaker 9: Because Mugs producer jump Around was also a producer at

1464
01:24:49,400 --> 01:24:54,920
Speaker 9: at Rouse. My guess is and I always wanted to

1465
01:24:54,960 --> 01:24:59,000
Speaker 9: know this because I would do the same thing because

1466
01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:02,679
Speaker 9: the the the same midnight what's the what's the break

1467
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:08,720
Speaker 9: of of uh pluck tuning midnight Manziel's midnight themes? Yeah,

1468
01:25:08,720 --> 01:25:13,960
Speaker 9: all right, so the midnight theme drums? Uh that Cyprus

1469
01:25:14,040 --> 01:25:15,080
Speaker 9: used on.

1470
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:17,880
Speaker 3: Kill a Man? Right?

1471
01:25:19,200 --> 01:25:24,679
Speaker 5: Uh, that's all Mugs right. My guess is that.

1472
01:25:24,840 --> 01:25:29,600
Speaker 9: Okay, let me use some you know that some of

1473
01:25:29,680 --> 01:25:31,680
Speaker 9: Mugs's tools were utilized.

1474
01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:39,240
Speaker 5: Okay, besides the jump say exactly what happened? Okay, so

1475
01:25:41,320 --> 01:25:46,559
Speaker 5: we I passed on a lot of great artists, you know,

1476
01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:52,160
Speaker 5: and I passed on a House of Pain arrest development.

1477
01:25:55,920 --> 01:26:02,800
Speaker 5: What was that, Alicia Keys? I know that's painful. I mean,

1478
01:26:04,880 --> 01:26:10,120
Speaker 5: well now you know, but here's the thing. It's it

1479
01:26:11,800 --> 01:26:13,800
Speaker 5: if if you were there, you know what I mean.

1480
01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:14,360
Speaker 5: But any happen.

1481
01:26:14,400 --> 01:26:15,560
Speaker 8: Let me let me get back to this story of

1482
01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:21,160
Speaker 8: so so so so we got a we got the

1483
01:26:21,280 --> 01:26:26,000
Speaker 8: demo from MUGS for a House of Pain. Okay, it

1484
01:26:26,120 --> 01:26:31,479
Speaker 8: was good, but it wasn't in our humble estimation at

1485
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:33,519
Speaker 8: a time there yet. But you know, who can hear

1486
01:26:33,560 --> 01:26:35,439
Speaker 8: what in a demo in this day and age. Right,

1487
01:26:36,040 --> 01:26:40,519
Speaker 8: But here's the bottom line. There was not a song

1488
01:26:40,640 --> 01:26:44,880
Speaker 8: called Jump on that demo. It wasn't there. Okay, number one,

1489
01:26:45,080 --> 01:26:52,040
Speaker 8: number one, number two, right. Amanda Cypress is one half

1490
01:26:52,080 --> 01:26:54,960
Speaker 8: the Cypress management team. A Manda Shear calls me up

1491
01:26:55,439 --> 01:26:58,920
Speaker 8: and she says, here's how She so, you guys have

1492
01:26:59,000 --> 01:27:02,800
Speaker 8: a song coming out called Jump, and I said, yeah,

1493
01:27:03,040 --> 01:27:07,080
Speaker 8: Criss Cross Jump. Well, House of Pain has a song

1494
01:27:07,160 --> 01:27:10,479
Speaker 8: called Jump, and you guys stole it and gave it.

1495
01:27:10,439 --> 01:27:11,679
Speaker 5: To Criss Cross, right.

1496
01:27:12,640 --> 01:27:16,519
Speaker 8: And I was like, that's the most insane thing I

1497
01:27:16,520 --> 01:27:20,960
Speaker 8: ever heard, because Jermaine dupri did everything right, you know.

1498
01:27:21,560 --> 01:27:24,639
Speaker 5: So she and I said, so where did we steal

1499
01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:25,240
Speaker 5: the song from?

1500
01:27:25,280 --> 01:27:25,679
Speaker 3: A many?

1501
01:27:25,760 --> 01:27:26,799
Speaker 5: Oh? Is on the demo?

1502
01:27:27,080 --> 01:27:27,320
Speaker 3: Right?

1503
01:27:28,080 --> 01:27:32,160
Speaker 5: And I said really, I said, hold on, right, and I.

1504
01:27:32,120 --> 01:27:34,960
Speaker 8: Go I got the demo and I'm sitting there on

1505
01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:37,680
Speaker 8: the film with her and I'm listing the songs. I said, so,

1506
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:40,559
Speaker 8: I'll tell you what's here blah blah blah blah blah

1507
01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:42,920
Speaker 8: blah blah blah blah. Which one of those songs is?

1508
01:27:43,400 --> 01:27:45,880
Speaker 8: Which one did we take? And she goes, oh, well,

1509
01:27:45,880 --> 01:27:47,880
Speaker 8: the song's called Jump. I said, well, there's no song

1510
01:27:47,960 --> 01:27:51,439
Speaker 8: called jump on this demo. This is what Mugs gave us, right,

1511
01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:55,400
Speaker 8: but they couldn't let it, you know, everlast couldn't let.

1512
01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:57,160
Speaker 5: It go, couldn't let it Okay, Yeah, and.

1513
01:27:57,160 --> 01:28:00,439
Speaker 8: Here's the thing. Mugs told me. He never thought Joe

1514
01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:03,280
Speaker 8: Jack the song, he never thought. And the thing is

1515
01:28:03,320 --> 01:28:05,559
Speaker 8: that I can tell you this right now. I mean,

1516
01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:08,760
Speaker 8: Joe Nick Low God bless him. Man, I've known this man.

1517
01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:11,519
Speaker 8: You know intimately there is Joe.

1518
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:13,519
Speaker 5: Joe's not.

1519
01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:20,640
Speaker 8: He doesn't have that thing right to take like he

1520
01:28:21,200 --> 01:28:24,560
Speaker 8: that would require much more time, effort.

1521
01:28:24,320 --> 01:28:26,720
Speaker 5: And energy and resources to do.

1522
01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:30,080
Speaker 8: Then Joe wants to expend you know what I mean,

1523
01:28:30,200 --> 01:28:32,360
Speaker 8: He's not He's not that kind of like you know.

1524
01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:35,439
Speaker 3: What was his reaction when he first heard it?

1525
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:39,200
Speaker 5: Oh he loved it. He goes, yes, yeah, no, he said,

1526
01:28:39,320 --> 01:28:41,200
Speaker 5: oh yeah, he goes, you should see it in the video.

1527
01:28:41,240 --> 01:28:42,760
Speaker 5: He gets right up in the camera.

1528
01:28:42,520 --> 01:28:48,559
Speaker 9: And okay, I always wanted to know. Okay, there's something else.

1529
01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:55,799
Speaker 9: I'm just reminded of explaining nas situation. Yeah, you guys

1530
01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:58,599
Speaker 9: had him first, Yeah, and then what happened?

1531
01:28:58,760 --> 01:28:59,120
Speaker 3: All right?

1532
01:29:01,080 --> 01:29:05,400
Speaker 8: So so at this point, you know, we're when we

1533
01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:09,360
Speaker 8: got to Sony right to Clumb it with CBS at

1534
01:29:09,400 --> 01:29:14,200
Speaker 8: the time, it was like, you know, there's death Jam

1535
01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:18,000
Speaker 8: and there's you guys, right, and you're it. We're not

1536
01:29:18,200 --> 01:29:22,719
Speaker 8: doing any other hip hop right. And the next week

1537
01:29:23,160 --> 01:29:25,920
Speaker 8: we go up for our first meetings of like people

1538
01:29:25,960 --> 01:29:29,839
Speaker 8: like Angela Thomas or product manager, and I'll never forget

1539
01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:35,400
Speaker 8: Angela Thomas was eating a salad and Kevin Woodley walks

1540
01:29:35,479 --> 01:29:38,040
Speaker 8: us in and he goes, yeah, this is a Chris

1541
01:29:38,040 --> 01:29:40,800
Speaker 8: Schwartz and Joe Nicholo. That's their hip hop label, rough

1542
01:29:40,840 --> 01:29:41,360
Speaker 8: House that we.

1543
01:29:41,360 --> 01:29:42,120
Speaker 5: Just did a deal with.

1544
01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:44,840
Speaker 8: And Angela's kind of like she's got her mouthful of

1545
01:29:44,880 --> 01:29:47,799
Speaker 8: food because she just found out that they did Russia

1546
01:29:47,800 --> 01:29:51,880
Speaker 8: Associated labels, which is like thirty companies, right you. And

1547
01:29:51,920 --> 01:29:54,200
Speaker 8: she goes and she's like looking and she's like, oh,

1548
01:29:54,360 --> 01:29:56,880
Speaker 8: another label, and you could just see that that look

1549
01:29:56,920 --> 01:30:02,960
Speaker 8: on her face so so deaf jam. Then something happened

1550
01:30:03,000 --> 01:30:05,400
Speaker 8: and they left, they got you know, they went to

1551
01:30:05,680 --> 01:30:08,400
Speaker 8: they went through a renegotiation and it just didn't work out,

1552
01:30:08,439 --> 01:30:12,920
Speaker 8: and they went over to mc A, PolyGram whatever. And

1553
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:18,559
Speaker 8: we were it right, and we were now doing really

1554
01:30:18,640 --> 01:30:22,719
Speaker 8: well and we had a lot of pipeline revenue coming

1555
01:30:22,760 --> 01:30:25,680
Speaker 8: to us. You know, the labels don't have to give

1556
01:30:25,720 --> 01:30:26,599
Speaker 8: it to you all at once.

1557
01:30:26,720 --> 01:30:27,240
Speaker 5: It's there.

1558
01:30:27,520 --> 01:30:36,480
Speaker 8: So so h mc search uh wanted to sign Nas

1559
01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:43,719
Speaker 8: now a couple of months prior to this. Uh there's

1560
01:30:43,760 --> 01:30:46,400
Speaker 8: a guy that he he was the manager of.

1561
01:30:46,360 --> 01:30:51,599
Speaker 5: A club called Revival, Philly. Yeah, Greg mcgara, Yeah, yeah,

1562
01:30:51,800 --> 01:30:54,000
Speaker 5: I lived at Revival. I was like, I was there

1563
01:30:54,040 --> 01:30:54,639
Speaker 5: all the time.

1564
01:30:55,040 --> 01:30:57,479
Speaker 8: Greg was the manager and we used to hang out

1565
01:30:57,479 --> 01:31:02,320
Speaker 8: to the wee hours and you know, and he constantly

1566
01:31:02,479 --> 01:31:03,080
Speaker 8: played me.

1567
01:31:03,200 --> 01:31:05,280
Speaker 5: This record.

1568
01:31:06,120 --> 01:31:10,280
Speaker 8: Live at the Barbecue, right, and he said, you know,

1569
01:31:10,600 --> 01:31:13,920
Speaker 8: you should find this kid Nas and sign him. But like,

1570
01:31:14,200 --> 01:31:17,040
Speaker 8: I know that this label, Wild Pitch was owned by

1571
01:31:17,040 --> 01:31:20,120
Speaker 8: Stu Fine, and I said, he's already signed. He's already

1572
01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:23,080
Speaker 8: signed to Wild Pitch, you know. So so I just

1573
01:31:23,560 --> 01:31:24,160
Speaker 8: that was it?

1574
01:31:24,439 --> 01:31:24,639
Speaker 3: Right?

1575
01:31:26,439 --> 01:31:30,320
Speaker 8: And so I get a phone call from Donnie Einer

1576
01:31:30,840 --> 01:31:33,519
Speaker 8: and he goes, Look, he goes, I want to introduce

1577
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:37,839
Speaker 8: you to Search. He's got this artist that that you should,

1578
01:31:37,960 --> 01:31:38,599
Speaker 8: you know, look.

1579
01:31:38,439 --> 01:31:42,919
Speaker 5: At, named Nas. I was like, oh really, so awesome.

1580
01:31:43,040 --> 01:31:43,240
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1581
01:31:44,200 --> 01:31:48,400
Speaker 8: So Search comes down the Philadelphia with Faith Newman and Nas.

1582
01:31:49,320 --> 01:31:51,400
Speaker 8: We go to the Spaghetti Warehouse.

1583
01:31:52,880 --> 01:31:57,519
Speaker 9: After midnight, post the post, after post the original after midnight.

1584
01:31:57,760 --> 01:32:02,160
Speaker 9: I know those guys that ran Oh my god, all right,

1585
01:32:02,240 --> 01:32:09,080
Speaker 9: so so we uh we we do this deal and

1586
01:32:09,280 --> 01:32:12,360
Speaker 9: uh it was two things where we signed NOAs and

1587
01:32:12,439 --> 01:32:14,240
Speaker 9: we also did the deal for.

1588
01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:18,120
Speaker 5: The soundtrack as Zebrahead and uh.

1589
01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:22,840
Speaker 8: The first thing we do if NAS was halftime uh

1590
01:32:22,920 --> 01:32:27,000
Speaker 8: Rich Murray, Uh production protege James Brummel did the video

1591
01:32:27,040 --> 01:32:31,920
Speaker 8: for like three thousand dollars, you know, and then stuff

1592
01:32:31,960 --> 01:32:35,719
Speaker 8: started happening, you know, and uh, you know.

1593
01:32:35,800 --> 01:32:38,800
Speaker 5: John Scheckter. Let me go back to an earlier part

1594
01:32:38,800 --> 01:32:39,280
Speaker 5: of the Source.

1595
01:32:39,320 --> 01:32:42,880
Speaker 8: When I was we had the school D Records right, Uh,

1596
01:32:43,160 --> 01:32:48,000
Speaker 8: I was sending out thousands of records to retailers besides, you.

1597
01:32:47,920 --> 01:32:49,360
Speaker 5: Know, to do stuff.

1598
01:32:49,720 --> 01:32:52,640
Speaker 8: I mailed out the first issue of the Source in

1599
01:32:52,680 --> 01:32:57,320
Speaker 8: the school D Records package. So I knew John and Dave,

1600
01:32:58,360 --> 01:33:02,400
Speaker 8: Dave Mays and John Scheckter. And John Scheckter came down

1601
01:33:02,560 --> 01:33:06,000
Speaker 8: and his mission was to get a copy of the

1602
01:33:06,120 --> 01:33:10,200
Speaker 8: NAS songs, and I gave him like, I think five

1603
01:33:10,360 --> 01:33:15,240
Speaker 8: songs and then uh, I think he was like the

1604
01:33:15,280 --> 01:33:17,960
Speaker 8: first artist to get X amount of microphones and the

1605
01:33:18,000 --> 01:33:18,639
Speaker 8: Source or whatever.

1606
01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:22,599
Speaker 3: So now now shout out to miss info.

1607
01:33:23,080 --> 01:33:28,560
Speaker 8: Now there's a huge, huge thing happening with NAS. Right,

1608
01:33:29,040 --> 01:33:35,880
Speaker 8: everybody's excited, you know. And I get a phone call.

1609
01:33:36,479 --> 01:33:41,760
Speaker 8: Rose comes in and says, oh, Chris, I was just

1610
01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:44,960
Speaker 8: told by somebody at Columbia that that NAS was gonna

1611
01:33:45,040 --> 01:33:46,280
Speaker 8: be on Columbia proper.

1612
01:33:46,880 --> 01:33:49,439
Speaker 5: And I was like, well, how's that he signed to us?

1613
01:33:49,560 --> 01:33:51,439
Speaker 5: He's contracted to us, it's our you know.

1614
01:33:52,560 --> 01:33:58,559
Speaker 8: And uh I we called up Donnie and Joe and

1615
01:33:58,600 --> 01:34:02,639
Speaker 8: I go up there and Donnie shows us a it's

1616
01:34:02,680 --> 01:34:06,840
Speaker 8: a fax from Tommy and the subject.

1617
01:34:06,400 --> 01:34:11,240
Speaker 5: Matter is why is NAS signed to rough House?

1618
01:34:11,760 --> 01:34:11,960
Speaker 3: Right?

1619
01:34:12,320 --> 01:34:13,519
Speaker 5: So here's what happened.

1620
01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:20,360
Speaker 8: Search bought it to Columbia, and Columbia said, oh, we'll

1621
01:34:20,360 --> 01:34:22,240
Speaker 8: do it, but it has to be on rough House.

1622
01:34:22,479 --> 01:34:29,280
Speaker 8: Why because if it fails, then we end up eating

1623
01:34:29,320 --> 01:34:32,840
Speaker 8: it from our pipeline revenues. Right, It's no risk for

1624
01:34:32,920 --> 01:34:36,360
Speaker 8: them to put it on us, you know, And it

1625
01:34:36,520 --> 01:34:37,759
Speaker 8: backfired on them.

1626
01:34:38,200 --> 01:34:44,360
Speaker 5: It backfires continues. Yeah, sounds it feel like being their

1627
01:34:44,600 --> 01:34:47,479
Speaker 5: red headed step kid, like the red Headed step bitches,

1628
01:34:47,640 --> 01:34:50,080
Speaker 5: you know, was it not?

1629
01:34:50,439 --> 01:34:51,160
Speaker 3: I mean, were they not?

1630
01:34:51,640 --> 01:34:57,240
Speaker 9: Because as a label on their own, they weren't. They

1631
01:34:57,280 --> 01:34:58,559
Speaker 9: weren't doing jack.

1632
01:34:58,400 --> 01:35:01,240
Speaker 5: With hip hop. Yeah, I know, I know, but but

1633
01:35:01,360 --> 01:35:02,040
Speaker 5: here's what it is.

1634
01:35:02,160 --> 01:35:02,840
Speaker 3: Here's what it is.

1635
01:35:04,040 --> 01:35:08,639
Speaker 8: After was all said and done, you know, Donnie shows

1636
01:35:08,720 --> 01:35:11,760
Speaker 8: me this facts, right, and it's from Tommy and it

1637
01:35:11,840 --> 01:35:17,280
Speaker 8: says he's saying, quote unquote you fucking asshole. Right, that

1638
01:35:17,360 --> 01:35:20,920
Speaker 8: is what it's hit and exclamation points and underlined right.

1639
01:35:21,840 --> 01:35:25,240
Speaker 8: And Donnie was like, you know, Chris, I'm like in

1640
01:35:25,360 --> 01:35:27,960
Speaker 8: a thing here, can you please help us out?

1641
01:35:28,720 --> 01:35:31,800
Speaker 3: And so we did a deal.

1642
01:35:32,080 --> 01:35:36,040
Speaker 5: We let them, We let them buy us out. Should

1643
01:35:36,120 --> 01:35:36,720
Speaker 5: we have done it?

1644
01:35:37,760 --> 01:35:43,080
Speaker 8: You know, here's the thing it was, looking back in retrospect,

1645
01:35:43,400 --> 01:35:46,880
Speaker 8: probably not. But at the same time, it was kind

1646
01:35:46,880 --> 01:35:49,439
Speaker 8: of hard to say no when this is a guy

1647
01:35:49,520 --> 01:35:53,040
Speaker 8: who's kind of like your partner at the thing and everything,

1648
01:35:53,160 --> 01:35:56,519
Speaker 8: and you know, we hed done a lot for us

1649
01:35:56,600 --> 01:35:58,760
Speaker 8: and everything, and it was just a thing.

1650
01:35:59,360 --> 01:36:02,960
Speaker 5: And then I remember later on Faith Newman, you know,

1651
01:36:03,160 --> 01:36:03,439
Speaker 5: kind of.

1652
01:36:03,479 --> 01:36:06,720
Speaker 8: Conceded is that, you know, Chris, I said, part of

1653
01:36:06,800 --> 01:36:09,160
Speaker 8: the pressure with this is that is that we have

1654
01:36:09,360 --> 01:36:13,720
Speaker 8: nothing for Columbia proper, you know. And what they I

1655
01:36:13,760 --> 01:36:17,439
Speaker 8: guess they didn't want to see was that if rough

1656
01:36:17,520 --> 01:36:20,840
Speaker 8: House suddenly ups and leaves one day the way def

1657
01:36:20,920 --> 01:36:24,080
Speaker 8: Jam did, and can imagine like half your revenue stream

1658
01:36:24,160 --> 01:36:27,960
Speaker 8: walking out the door, right, you know, because you know,

1659
01:36:28,080 --> 01:36:30,519
Speaker 8: it doesn't for like really like a ten year period

1660
01:36:30,560 --> 01:36:30,920
Speaker 8: of time.

1661
01:36:31,280 --> 01:36:37,599
Speaker 5: We were their black music department, so so so, so yeah,

1662
01:36:37,760 --> 01:36:38,479
Speaker 5: that's what happened.

1663
01:36:38,520 --> 01:36:41,519
Speaker 8: But you know, it's funny. I would see Nas like over.

1664
01:36:41,600 --> 01:36:44,800
Speaker 8: I saw himong like over in Europe and everything, and

1665
01:36:44,960 --> 01:36:47,560
Speaker 8: he always said, he goes man, he goes. I just

1666
01:36:47,680 --> 01:36:50,040
Speaker 8: wanted to just stay on rough House so bad, and

1667
01:36:50,240 --> 01:36:54,960
Speaker 8: you know, and it's crazy. Yeah, so but he gave

1668
01:36:55,000 --> 01:36:57,479
Speaker 8: me a nice shout out in the Surviving the Times.

1669
01:37:02,640 --> 01:37:07,960
Speaker 9: My last day at rough House. Uh, two things happened.

1670
01:37:12,240 --> 01:37:16,280
Speaker 9: One freaking I don't even know if you're aware of this.

1671
01:37:18,560 --> 01:37:21,200
Speaker 9: My last day at rough House was Santy Gold's first

1672
01:37:21,280 --> 01:37:24,640
Speaker 9: day at rough House. Oh wow, as working under Da

1673
01:37:24,680 --> 01:37:28,880
Speaker 9: Vida gar right, and yeah, it was kind of like

1674
01:37:28,960 --> 01:37:31,479
Speaker 9: that dream Weaver moment like in Wayne's World.

1675
01:37:31,680 --> 01:37:33,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, who is that?

1676
01:37:35,680 --> 01:37:39,200
Speaker 9: I don't mean to creepy out Santi, Sorry, it was

1677
01:37:39,240 --> 01:37:42,680
Speaker 9: a long time. Santi was like she was Day of

1678
01:37:42,760 --> 01:37:49,120
Speaker 9: the Century. And Davida asked me for a favor and said, hey, uh,

1679
01:37:50,360 --> 01:37:55,120
Speaker 9: at you guys's signing party in two weeks, could you

1680
01:37:55,320 --> 01:37:58,080
Speaker 9: let one of our new acts open for you guys?

1681
01:37:58,520 --> 01:38:02,880
Speaker 3: And I was like, okay, who is it and she

1682
01:38:03,040 --> 01:38:03,519
Speaker 3: gives me.

1683
01:38:05,160 --> 01:38:08,560
Speaker 9: Blunted on reality, which at that point, which at that

1684
01:38:08,680 --> 01:38:13,880
Speaker 9: point was like it was a quiet two months. Like

1685
01:38:15,360 --> 01:38:17,640
Speaker 9: I was gonna say, nappy Heads didn't even have the

1686
01:38:17,680 --> 01:38:21,880
Speaker 9: remix yet. Early in the game, I knew when I

1687
01:38:21,920 --> 01:38:26,200
Speaker 9: saw the eight x ten because of the way that

1688
01:38:26,360 --> 01:38:30,519
Speaker 9: soap operas running my family's houses. Yeah, I was like, oh,

1689
01:38:31,120 --> 01:38:33,679
Speaker 9: that's the joint from As the World turn Yeah. Yeah,

1690
01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:38,000
Speaker 9: I didn't even know about Sister Act too yet. Sacha

1691
01:38:38,080 --> 01:38:41,080
Speaker 9: knew her as the trouble kid for me As the

1692
01:38:41,120 --> 01:38:42,840
Speaker 9: World Turns, So I loved it.

1693
01:38:42,920 --> 01:38:44,680
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, hell yeah, let her do it.

1694
01:38:45,840 --> 01:38:49,720
Speaker 9: So how did like, so the fujis came to my

1695
01:38:49,800 --> 01:38:56,479
Speaker 9: attention two weeks like Thanksgiving of November ninety three, but

1696
01:38:57,240 --> 01:38:59,439
Speaker 9: she told me that you guys had had them long

1697
01:38:59,520 --> 01:38:59,880
Speaker 9: before that.

1698
01:39:00,160 --> 01:39:08,640
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, so how did you guys? We actually Roseman?

1699
01:39:09,560 --> 01:39:09,880
Speaker 3: Okay?

1700
01:39:10,000 --> 01:39:12,960
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, I I just you know, I'm real

1701
01:39:13,040 --> 01:39:14,880
Speaker 8: big on giving credit where credits.

1702
01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:18,040
Speaker 5: Due, you know, And was Roseman officially A and R?

1703
01:39:18,200 --> 01:39:21,360
Speaker 5: Like what was her job at? You know, who's an

1704
01:39:21,360 --> 01:39:22,320
Speaker 5: an R guy anymore?

1705
01:39:22,360 --> 01:39:22,920
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

1706
01:39:24,200 --> 01:39:24,519
Speaker 5: Label?

1707
01:39:24,680 --> 01:39:27,000
Speaker 8: You know, Monica Lynch said the best music to came

1708
01:39:27,120 --> 01:39:29,519
Speaker 8: the biggest records that came the Tommy Boy came through

1709
01:39:29,560 --> 01:39:32,160
Speaker 8: their guy in the Puerto Rican guy in the mailroom,

1710
01:39:32,200 --> 01:39:32,720
Speaker 8: you know what I mean.

1711
01:39:33,080 --> 01:39:34,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, so.

1712
01:39:36,280 --> 01:39:39,960
Speaker 8: Remember the TV commercial Uh, I guess it was in

1713
01:39:40,080 --> 01:39:44,040
Speaker 8: the late eighties, early nineties. Uh, the the guys in

1714
01:39:44,120 --> 01:39:47,080
Speaker 8: the cab and the cab driver in New York City

1715
01:39:47,200 --> 01:39:47,960
Speaker 8: has the dreads.

1716
01:39:48,439 --> 01:39:52,920
Speaker 5: You know they showed that commercial. That's Hassan Scherie, Hassan Hassan.

1717
01:39:53,040 --> 01:40:01,120
Speaker 5: He was in Sphead, Yes, yeah, yeah, he always Oh yeah,

1718
01:40:01,200 --> 01:40:04,200
Speaker 5: so that's I guess that's a Zebrahead party. Is where

1719
01:40:04,479 --> 01:40:05,280
Speaker 5: he met Rose.

1720
01:40:05,760 --> 01:40:08,559
Speaker 3: Wow, and so he had night during their premiere.

1721
01:40:08,880 --> 01:40:11,400
Speaker 5: I guess I don't. I don't know how she meant him.

1722
01:40:11,400 --> 01:40:13,560
Speaker 5: That must have been because I rented a bus and

1723
01:40:13,640 --> 01:40:15,040
Speaker 5: took us all to New York City.

1724
01:40:15,240 --> 01:40:18,280
Speaker 3: I did. And that's that's the that's the ill fated

1725
01:40:18,439 --> 01:40:19,080
Speaker 3: night where.

1726
01:40:20,680 --> 01:40:23,400
Speaker 9: I remember Clark Kent went back and forth on in

1727
01:40:23,560 --> 01:40:28,479
Speaker 9: Vogue's hold On Nas freestyled, I have my one moment

1728
01:40:28,600 --> 01:40:32,479
Speaker 9: with romy with Nasty Nas back. You know, that was

1729
01:40:32,560 --> 01:40:34,560
Speaker 9: my one moment when I thought it was going to

1730
01:40:34,560 --> 01:40:39,760
Speaker 9: be emc and I gave it up after that for real. Uh, well,

1731
01:40:40,000 --> 01:40:44,240
Speaker 9: I just ad minute. This is twenty five years later.

1732
01:40:44,400 --> 01:40:46,559
Speaker 9: So you know, I hope nobody recorded that ship.

1733
01:40:46,680 --> 01:40:49,640
Speaker 3: But so he met her that night, he must have.

1734
01:40:50,200 --> 01:40:50,920
Speaker 3: That's crazy.

1735
01:40:51,080 --> 01:40:57,360
Speaker 5: So so what happened was she bugged the ship out

1736
01:40:57,400 --> 01:41:01,120
Speaker 5: of me for for a long time. She goes, you

1737
01:41:01,280 --> 01:41:03,679
Speaker 5: got to hear this. Listen to this group. Listen to scroup,

1738
01:41:03,760 --> 01:41:06,240
Speaker 5: Listen to group. So I'm in my car.

1739
01:41:08,240 --> 01:41:14,679
Speaker 8: And I put this tape in and the first thing

1740
01:41:14,840 --> 01:41:19,720
Speaker 8: that caught me was it like, oh, it's not like

1741
01:41:20,320 --> 01:41:24,120
Speaker 8: hip hop. Like it's hip hop, but there's you know,

1742
01:41:24,680 --> 01:41:26,720
Speaker 8: it had a whole different thing about it.

1743
01:41:27,200 --> 01:41:30,880
Speaker 3: And and then and and so, well you're familiar with

1744
01:41:30,920 --> 01:41:32,120
Speaker 3: that because you also have the goats.

1745
01:41:32,400 --> 01:41:32,599
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1746
01:41:33,000 --> 01:41:36,400
Speaker 8: Yeah, So so I thought, I thought, all right, so

1747
01:41:36,640 --> 01:41:39,880
Speaker 8: this is something a little bit unique and different. I

1748
01:41:40,400 --> 01:41:43,640
Speaker 8: didn't know their Haitian. You know, I'm embarrassed to say this.

1749
01:41:43,840 --> 01:41:45,600
Speaker 8: You know, I thought it was Jamaican. You know.

1750
01:41:48,800 --> 01:41:52,880
Speaker 5: This, what's new. So we go to the uh we we.

1751
01:41:53,040 --> 01:41:55,759
Speaker 8: Joe and I go up to their audition at David

1752
01:41:55,840 --> 01:41:58,200
Speaker 8: Sonenberg's office on the Upper East Side in this.

1753
01:41:58,320 --> 01:41:59,120
Speaker 5: Townhouse and.

1754
01:42:01,280 --> 01:42:06,439
Speaker 8: And there was like seven or eight people and but

1755
01:42:06,720 --> 01:42:12,519
Speaker 8: here's what what basically the thing that right away was

1756
01:42:12,640 --> 01:42:18,559
Speaker 8: that why Cleft the beat box and the acoustic guitar,

1757
01:42:19,479 --> 01:42:22,719
Speaker 8: and it was like, Okay, this is a little different,

1758
01:42:24,000 --> 01:42:27,960
Speaker 8: this is like and that That's what did.

1759
01:42:27,880 --> 01:42:28,200
Speaker 3: It for me.

1760
01:42:28,760 --> 01:42:32,400
Speaker 8: You know, you didn't hear a note from Lauren's now

1761
01:42:32,439 --> 01:42:34,840
Speaker 8: I'm I talked about in the book. I don't even

1762
01:42:34,880 --> 01:42:37,559
Speaker 8: remember her from the audition. And here's the thing. When

1763
01:42:37,680 --> 01:42:40,479
Speaker 8: we went, there was like six or seven kids, and

1764
01:42:40,640 --> 01:42:43,800
Speaker 8: at the end of the audition, why Clef like, it's

1765
01:42:43,920 --> 01:42:45,439
Speaker 8: now stripped doll's clothes off.

1766
01:42:45,520 --> 01:42:47,719
Speaker 5: He's in his boxers, going nuts and everything.

1767
01:42:48,160 --> 01:42:51,360
Speaker 8: And I'd found out later on they had a dussion

1768
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:56,240
Speaker 8: for every major and independent we were their last shot.

1769
01:42:56,760 --> 01:43:00,200
Speaker 8: They said we were at So when we went to

1770
01:43:00,320 --> 01:43:04,920
Speaker 8: do the contracts, it was there was only three people

1771
01:43:06,200 --> 01:43:08,479
Speaker 8: and I was like, well, wait, what were where were

1772
01:43:08,520 --> 01:43:09,960
Speaker 8: all these other people that were there?

1773
01:43:10,240 --> 01:43:10,400
Speaker 3: Right?

1774
01:43:11,080 --> 01:43:15,600
Speaker 8: And so anyhow we did the album. Uh, most of

1775
01:43:15,720 --> 01:43:21,160
Speaker 8: my dialogue was with y Cleff and the manager, David Sonenberg.

1776
01:43:21,840 --> 01:43:24,479
Speaker 8: And when we got when I got the first batch

1777
01:43:24,560 --> 01:43:27,640
Speaker 8: of songs, it was really weird because like Prose was

1778
01:43:27,760 --> 01:43:31,479
Speaker 8: like the dominant rapper and I thought, you know, Prose

1779
01:43:31,800 --> 01:43:35,680
Speaker 8: was good, but he no, no, no, he he I'll

1780
01:43:35,720 --> 01:43:37,560
Speaker 8: tell you, but you're ready or not, you have to

1781
01:43:37,600 --> 01:43:44,920
Speaker 8: admit he's what he does on that track. Yeah, but

1782
01:43:45,240 --> 01:43:49,320
Speaker 8: I just wasn't feeling him carrying these songs. And I

1783
01:43:49,479 --> 01:43:51,599
Speaker 8: call up David and I said, David, you and I say,

1784
01:43:51,600 --> 01:43:55,360
Speaker 8: is this is a problem And he goes, well, he goes, yeah,

1785
01:43:55,400 --> 01:43:57,920
Speaker 8: it is a real problem. He says, because y clef

1786
01:43:58,520 --> 01:44:00,719
Speaker 8: is or Prose is why club's cousin.

1787
01:44:00,880 --> 01:44:04,320
Speaker 5: I'm like, oh shit, I gotta talk. But I said,

1788
01:44:04,400 --> 01:44:06,120
Speaker 5: fuck it. You know, lit a cigarette.

1789
01:44:06,479 --> 01:44:08,920
Speaker 8: You got Cleft on the phone, and I said, yo, man,

1790
01:44:09,160 --> 01:44:12,240
Speaker 8: I said, it's cool, but is there any way that

1791
01:44:12,560 --> 01:44:13,559
Speaker 8: you know, blah blah blah.

1792
01:44:13,560 --> 01:44:16,439
Speaker 5: It's diplomatic? Is possible? Clubs? Oh yeah, man, I got

1793
01:44:16,520 --> 01:44:17,040
Speaker 5: you right.

1794
01:44:18,200 --> 01:44:24,040
Speaker 8: Like a week later, different different thing. You know, pause

1795
01:44:24,200 --> 01:44:25,840
Speaker 8: is more pushed to the back, you know.

1796
01:44:26,760 --> 01:44:26,880
Speaker 9: Uh.

1797
01:44:27,160 --> 01:44:31,240
Speaker 8: And that first album and the touring and here here's

1798
01:44:31,280 --> 01:44:33,120
Speaker 8: the thing, man, you know, I always said this. There

1799
01:44:33,200 --> 01:44:36,280
Speaker 8: was like three groups, three hip hop groups from that day.

1800
01:44:36,560 --> 01:44:42,439
Speaker 8: The tour that was the Fujis Psychercil and the Roots

1801
01:44:43,600 --> 01:44:48,360
Speaker 8: constant touring. Yeah you're a constant god, those were they.

1802
01:44:48,600 --> 01:44:51,400
Speaker 8: I merried Scott Thomas, you know Scott Thomas over in

1803
01:44:51,439 --> 01:44:55,880
Speaker 8: the UK. Booking agent. Yeah, he would tell me, he said,

1804
01:44:56,280 --> 01:44:59,240
Speaker 8: he goes, yeah, all through those he you would always

1805
01:44:59,240 --> 01:45:02,920
Speaker 8: say those artists, those are the ones you know, Uh

1806
01:45:03,320 --> 01:45:07,479
Speaker 8: you had to but but ye, how about this. Two

1807
01:45:07,760 --> 01:45:12,479
Speaker 8: years after the release A Blunted on Reality, we're still

1808
01:45:12,600 --> 01:45:17,960
Speaker 8: selling six eight hundred copies a week SoundScan, right, So

1809
01:45:18,200 --> 01:45:22,320
Speaker 8: that's showing that this record. And I gotta tell you

1810
01:45:23,040 --> 01:45:28,120
Speaker 8: that whole thing with with Sony and Columbia was hanging

1811
01:45:28,640 --> 01:45:29,240
Speaker 8: not by.

1812
01:45:29,200 --> 01:45:33,080
Speaker 5: A thread, but by like a spiderweb thread like it was.

1813
01:45:33,240 --> 01:45:38,280
Speaker 8: Uh, they did a show in London and I wasn't

1814
01:45:38,320 --> 01:45:42,920
Speaker 8: at the show. But Luke Verge, who later on became

1815
01:45:43,080 --> 01:45:46,000
Speaker 8: head of every like he became my guy for Europe

1816
01:45:46,040 --> 01:45:48,320
Speaker 8: for everything. He was our He was head of international

1817
01:45:48,400 --> 01:45:52,360
Speaker 8: marketing for Columbia Records. He called, he's He's from Marseille

1818
01:45:53,920 --> 01:45:55,920
Speaker 8: and he calls me kiss.

1819
01:45:56,400 --> 01:45:58,439
Speaker 5: He was roaded a cat back with these guys.

1820
01:45:58,520 --> 01:45:58,880
Speaker 3: Last night.

1821
01:45:58,880 --> 01:45:59,920
Speaker 5: They're talking about dropping.

1822
01:46:00,520 --> 01:46:07,080
Speaker 8: You must do something, you know, and uh I called

1823
01:46:07,120 --> 01:46:10,600
Speaker 8: up Donnie and uh I said, Donnie, I said that

1824
01:46:10,800 --> 01:46:11,959
Speaker 8: they were gonna win Grammys.

1825
01:46:12,000 --> 01:46:12,640
Speaker 3: We just got it.

1826
01:46:12,760 --> 01:46:15,120
Speaker 5: We gotta stay with we gotta do this and.

1827
01:46:15,439 --> 01:46:18,680
Speaker 9: Stay with it and everything and do you know what

1828
01:46:18,800 --> 01:46:22,200
Speaker 9: it is like the lack of faith, because the thing is,

1829
01:46:22,479 --> 01:46:25,200
Speaker 9: I would even like to think that, like, Okay, the

1830
01:46:25,360 --> 01:46:30,160
Speaker 9: money by this point, you know, you have some gratitude

1831
01:46:30,200 --> 01:46:32,360
Speaker 9: because the money's good.

1832
01:46:32,800 --> 01:46:34,679
Speaker 3: You guys are doing the numbers.

1833
01:46:34,880 --> 01:46:39,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, Yet it's like each time out the out the gate.

1834
01:46:39,280 --> 01:46:42,519
Speaker 8: Well, no, I'll tell you this, at this point, at

1835
01:46:42,680 --> 01:46:46,479
Speaker 8: that point, I had a lot of confidence in the relation.

1836
01:46:46,680 --> 01:46:47,240
Speaker 5: I'll tell you this.

1837
01:46:47,400 --> 01:46:51,400
Speaker 8: When it when the first the first five years at Columbia, right,

1838
01:46:51,960 --> 01:46:55,000
Speaker 8: I was I was the wimpy kid, you know.

1839
01:46:55,600 --> 01:46:59,320
Speaker 5: I was easily easily bullied and and and you know,

1840
01:46:59,600 --> 01:47:01,040
Speaker 5: talk to to ship.

1841
01:47:01,439 --> 01:47:11,400
Speaker 9: In another diplomatic way. How how approachable is Tommy And

1842
01:47:12,960 --> 01:47:15,640
Speaker 9: is he one of the guys or is you know

1843
01:47:15,760 --> 01:47:18,120
Speaker 9: what you'd be like, hey, yo, but you.

1844
01:47:20,479 --> 01:47:23,320
Speaker 5: Kind of I got I got a little little story

1845
01:47:23,880 --> 01:47:27,280
Speaker 5: that that I'll get into. All right.

1846
01:47:27,360 --> 01:47:28,040
Speaker 3: So so.

1847
01:47:32,520 --> 01:47:39,639
Speaker 5: Lauren this record, right, the Miseducation of Lauren Hill.

1848
01:47:40,240 --> 01:47:44,160
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, uh, we allowed to talk about that record

1849
01:47:44,200 --> 01:47:44,400
Speaker 3: in here.

1850
01:47:46,880 --> 01:47:56,600
Speaker 8: No, the record, the record that the project is the

1851
01:47:56,760 --> 01:48:02,320
Speaker 8: vehicle for the story, right, but that she she was

1852
01:48:02,439 --> 01:48:07,160
Speaker 8: going to Japan to do a show for the Sony executives.

1853
01:48:08,640 --> 01:48:11,880
Speaker 8: We had just did this whole thing in in in

1854
01:48:12,120 --> 01:48:17,400
Speaker 8: the UK, and and I was going I was going

1855
01:48:17,439 --> 01:48:21,160
Speaker 8: with her to Japan. And this is shortly after my

1856
01:48:21,439 --> 01:48:24,000
Speaker 8: remember the phone call from the executives about you know,

1857
01:48:24,320 --> 01:48:28,800
Speaker 8: I am all right right, yes, so she's so we

1858
01:48:28,920 --> 01:48:33,240
Speaker 8: got this big thing happening, bought my ticket, all ready

1859
01:48:33,280 --> 01:48:36,920
Speaker 8: to go, and I get a phone call and it's

1860
01:48:37,560 --> 01:48:44,200
Speaker 8: Tommy's assistant. Oh, Chris, Tommy needs you to come up

1861
01:48:44,280 --> 01:48:49,080
Speaker 8: to a meeting with him and Danny DeVito. And who's

1862
01:48:49,120 --> 01:48:53,280
Speaker 8: the woman who runs Jersey Films you know I'm talking about, right,

1863
01:48:54,080 --> 01:48:57,560
Speaker 8: And and I said, oh, yeah, yeah, cool, right, so

1864
01:48:58,120 --> 01:48:59,439
Speaker 8: when's when's the meeting?

1865
01:48:59,479 --> 01:49:01,679
Speaker 5: She gives me a hey. I said, ah, impossible, I'm

1866
01:49:01,720 --> 01:49:05,680
Speaker 5: going to be over in Japan with with miss Hill, right,

1867
01:49:06,280 --> 01:49:12,439
Speaker 5: And she goes, oh, well, Tommy is really asking if

1868
01:49:12,520 --> 01:49:15,520
Speaker 5: you could, you know, make this It's really really.

1869
01:49:15,360 --> 01:49:16,400
Speaker 3: Important, you know.

1870
01:49:17,240 --> 01:49:21,040
Speaker 5: And I'm like, and I'm thinking, wow, Like, how can

1871
01:49:21,120 --> 01:49:21,880
Speaker 5: I say no?

1872
01:49:22,080 --> 01:49:22,400
Speaker 3: All right?

1873
01:49:22,800 --> 01:49:24,120
Speaker 5: So I said, all right.

1874
01:49:25,760 --> 01:49:30,320
Speaker 8: I go in the clickman's office and I said, yeah,

1875
01:49:30,360 --> 01:49:32,720
Speaker 8: it looks like I'm not going to the thing in

1876
01:49:32,840 --> 01:49:36,160
Speaker 8: Japan with miss I'm doing the Tommy wants to have

1877
01:49:36,320 --> 01:49:40,000
Speaker 8: this really important meeting with Danny DeVito. And all this stuff,

1878
01:49:40,840 --> 01:49:45,720
Speaker 8: and Kevin just laughs at me and he goes, he goes, Yeah,

1879
01:49:45,840 --> 01:49:46,599
Speaker 8: what's going to happen.

1880
01:49:47,280 --> 01:49:48,719
Speaker 5: The plane's going to take off.

1881
01:49:49,720 --> 01:49:50,559
Speaker 3: And then they're going to cancel.

1882
01:49:50,600 --> 01:49:54,000
Speaker 5: They're get to canceled the meeting. I said, I said, Nah,

1883
01:49:54,360 --> 01:49:58,439
Speaker 5: it ain't gonna happen, something like that. And of course

1884
01:49:59,479 --> 01:50:03,880
Speaker 5: the plane takes off. Call Oh, Danny had to do

1885
01:50:04,040 --> 01:50:05,519
Speaker 5: some reshoots.

1886
01:50:05,360 --> 01:50:08,800
Speaker 3: You know, and and so and so.

1887
01:50:09,720 --> 01:50:12,760
Speaker 5: How else could I look at this right and to

1888
01:50:12,880 --> 01:50:19,280
Speaker 5: think that that he didn't want me meeting the Sony guy,

1889
01:50:19,520 --> 01:50:23,960
Speaker 5: the Sony you know over there.

1890
01:50:24,400 --> 01:50:27,920
Speaker 8: But you know, the reality is like what what what

1891
01:50:28,040 --> 01:50:31,000
Speaker 8: would I do? You know, I'm just you know, what

1892
01:50:31,240 --> 01:50:33,840
Speaker 8: am I going to talk to these guys about? You know,

1893
01:50:33,960 --> 01:50:35,760
Speaker 8: I'm just there as part of the you know, with

1894
01:50:35,920 --> 01:50:40,479
Speaker 8: her and the show and everything. But but but you know,

1895
01:50:40,560 --> 01:50:43,200
Speaker 8: here's the reality. I could never prove this in a

1896
01:50:43,280 --> 01:50:46,880
Speaker 8: court of law, and it's only speculation on my part.

1897
01:50:47,479 --> 01:50:50,760
Speaker 8: But you know, but the only thing I could say,

1898
01:50:51,360 --> 01:50:54,840
Speaker 8: if that meeting was just so fucking important, how come

1899
01:50:54,880 --> 01:50:59,600
Speaker 8: it never got rescheduled? Because I had called up? So

1900
01:51:00,080 --> 01:51:02,800
Speaker 8: when are we doing the meeting with Danny? And it

1901
01:51:03,000 --> 01:51:07,080
Speaker 8: just kind of like, you know, yeah, So what was.

1902
01:51:07,080 --> 01:51:08,920
Speaker 10: Your breaking point, because you said that you probably was

1903
01:51:08,960 --> 01:51:11,280
Speaker 10: a pushover for the first like five years.

1904
01:51:11,080 --> 01:51:13,600
Speaker 8: But what was the moment when you were like it

1905
01:51:13,800 --> 01:51:17,280
Speaker 8: was the I guess the breaking the breaking point where

1906
01:51:17,479 --> 01:51:20,640
Speaker 8: it's no, I didn't suddenly become nasty and mean, it

1907
01:51:20,880 --> 01:51:24,960
Speaker 8: was just sort of when when you really like, I'll

1908
01:51:25,000 --> 01:51:27,920
Speaker 8: tell you this, there's a guy, uh, his name is

1909
01:51:28,000 --> 01:51:32,639
Speaker 8: Chris Blackwell, and he's the founder of Island Records. He's

1910
01:51:33,120 --> 01:51:37,320
Speaker 8: one of my best friends, and he's been my mentor

1911
01:51:37,640 --> 01:51:47,040
Speaker 8: for years. And when you really get a grasp of

1912
01:51:47,200 --> 01:51:53,439
Speaker 8: the type of money that those companies make, it's it's, uh,

1913
01:51:53,720 --> 01:51:54,799
Speaker 8: it's mind boggling.

1914
01:51:55,560 --> 01:51:55,680
Speaker 10: Uh.

1915
01:51:56,120 --> 01:51:59,240
Speaker 8: For instance, at the time, you know a major distribution

1916
01:51:59,439 --> 01:52:05,639
Speaker 8: power M right, Well, there's manufacturing costs, right, you deduct

1917
01:52:05,720 --> 01:52:12,040
Speaker 8: that you pay for your manufacturing. The company that's manufacturing

1918
01:52:13,720 --> 01:52:18,680
Speaker 8: the record is the same company, but you're paying, but

1919
01:52:18,960 --> 01:52:22,320
Speaker 8: you're paying for the man you like. In other words,

1920
01:52:23,280 --> 01:52:26,720
Speaker 8: they're paying you're you're paying them to manufacture. You're not

1921
01:52:26,800 --> 01:52:33,000
Speaker 8: getting any break on that, you know. So it's and

1922
01:52:33,120 --> 01:52:38,240
Speaker 8: then let's face it, uh, international Okay, I can tell

1923
01:52:38,280 --> 01:52:41,720
Speaker 8: you this that, uh, there was an old there was

1924
01:52:41,760 --> 01:52:44,240
Speaker 8: an old time industry account named Bert Padell.

1925
01:52:45,720 --> 01:52:50,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, well it's guy's got the.

1926
01:52:50,280 --> 01:52:53,880
Speaker 10: Biggest He was an accountant, big shouted him out on

1927
01:52:54,360 --> 01:52:54,639
Speaker 10: the ones.

1928
01:52:54,680 --> 01:52:57,760
Speaker 8: What Bert Padell was that, you know, when you go

1929
01:52:57,880 --> 01:53:00,800
Speaker 8: to do a co venture right as a label, they

1930
01:53:00,960 --> 01:53:03,160
Speaker 8: just don't get it to you. You know remember when

1931
01:53:03,200 --> 01:53:07,880
Speaker 8: Andre herald the fifty million dollar thing, right, they don't. Yeah,

1932
01:53:07,920 --> 01:53:11,439
Speaker 8: they just don't. When you renegotiate, you got it. You

1933
01:53:11,680 --> 01:53:16,800
Speaker 8: have to come to them with a whole plan, like

1934
01:53:16,960 --> 01:53:20,720
Speaker 8: a prospectus. You have to have projections, you have to

1935
01:53:20,800 --> 01:53:23,639
Speaker 8: have a pro forma, You got to have all that stuff.

1936
01:53:24,160 --> 01:53:28,320
Speaker 8: You have to because if in order for them to

1937
01:53:28,479 --> 01:53:31,519
Speaker 8: cut loose with that money, they have to be able

1938
01:53:31,640 --> 01:53:32,800
Speaker 8: to justify it to.

1939
01:53:32,760 --> 01:53:36,080
Speaker 5: Whoever the board of whatever whatever it is. But that's

1940
01:53:36,280 --> 01:53:38,880
Speaker 5: part of the process like in any business. Right.

1941
01:53:39,479 --> 01:53:43,040
Speaker 8: So so when I when we did our finally did

1942
01:53:43,120 --> 01:53:46,639
Speaker 8: the co venture, uh, I had to get Bert Padell

1943
01:53:46,880 --> 01:53:48,880
Speaker 8: to help us put that stuff together because he's got

1944
01:53:49,000 --> 01:53:49,519
Speaker 8: he's got.

1945
01:53:49,680 --> 01:53:51,760
Speaker 5: All that stuff. But what I the reason I bring

1946
01:53:51,840 --> 01:53:55,360
Speaker 5: him up is that the majors is that were they

1947
01:53:56,120 --> 01:53:58,719
Speaker 5: one place that they really get you at that time

1948
01:53:59,240 --> 01:54:02,679
Speaker 5: when we have when we relying on the physical product,

1949
01:54:02,760 --> 01:54:07,880
Speaker 5: which was the lifeblood of the business was international internationally.

1950
01:54:07,920 --> 01:54:12,560
Speaker 5: You think about it, you everything is all computerized.

1951
01:54:12,720 --> 01:54:16,240
Speaker 8: So and somebody renegotiates a record dealer or something, you'd say,

1952
01:54:16,240 --> 01:54:18,920
Speaker 8: okay for international, We're going to get this particular royalty

1953
01:54:19,040 --> 01:54:21,160
Speaker 8: rate and they raise it by you know, a couple

1954
01:54:21,240 --> 01:54:24,720
Speaker 8: pointsever But somehow somebody forgets to put that in the

1955
01:54:24,840 --> 01:54:26,080
Speaker 8: royalty accounting program.

1956
01:54:26,240 --> 01:54:30,320
Speaker 5: Right, So then when you go back and you do a.

1957
01:54:32,280 --> 01:54:37,280
Speaker 8: So we audit, you would believe the hundreds of thousands

1958
01:54:37,360 --> 01:54:41,840
Speaker 8: to millions of dollars that you find and Roughhouse if

1959
01:54:41,880 --> 01:54:44,800
Speaker 8: we were anything else worldwide, we were one of the

1960
01:54:44,840 --> 01:54:47,120
Speaker 8: biggest hip hop labels in the world because our artists

1961
01:54:47,200 --> 01:54:52,080
Speaker 8: were massive, you know, and and you know, we were

1962
01:54:52,200 --> 01:54:56,600
Speaker 8: making so much money for them. And so that's at

1963
01:54:56,680 --> 01:54:59,520
Speaker 8: that point I just kind of felt like, you know,

1964
01:55:00,760 --> 01:55:03,600
Speaker 8: I I knew you know what I mean. So that

1965
01:55:03,760 --> 01:55:06,400
Speaker 8: gave me a lot of confidence and and you know,

1966
01:55:06,720 --> 01:55:07,400
Speaker 8: dealing with them.

1967
01:55:08,280 --> 01:55:11,080
Speaker 3: So what did you When did you officially leave Sony.

1968
01:55:12,160 --> 01:55:15,160
Speaker 5: Uh in nineteen ninety nine.

1969
01:55:15,920 --> 01:55:19,960
Speaker 7: Oh wow, right after right after during the I was

1970
01:55:20,080 --> 01:55:27,240
Speaker 7: having I was having meetings with in La with like

1971
01:55:27,760 --> 01:55:32,040
Speaker 7: uh David Geffen uh, heads of like e am I

1972
01:55:32,560 --> 01:55:34,080
Speaker 7: and Warner Brothers.

1973
01:55:35,680 --> 01:55:40,320
Speaker 5: The day after the Grammys. Yeah, I forgot because with

1974
01:55:40,480 --> 01:55:45,280
Speaker 5: rough Nation, yeah uh uh? And then Proud of from

1975
01:55:47,360 --> 01:55:50,600
Speaker 5: Yeah that record, dude, you should see that. You should

1976
01:55:50,600 --> 01:55:53,920
Speaker 5: see the video they did with Liz Lighty. It's it's

1977
01:55:54,000 --> 01:55:58,040
Speaker 5: incredibly rich. Shot it in this place in Delaware. It's

1978
01:55:58,120 --> 01:55:59,720
Speaker 5: like it's a white psych.

1979
01:55:59,640 --> 01:56:02,240
Speaker 8: That goes around the room and it's a camera that's

1980
01:56:02,320 --> 01:56:06,320
Speaker 8: on this like robotic thing. So the way it's one

1981
01:56:06,440 --> 01:56:10,720
Speaker 8: continuous shot. So you see this video and you see

1982
01:56:10,840 --> 01:56:14,480
Speaker 8: like hundreds of people in it, but there's no edit.

1983
01:56:14,880 --> 01:56:16,320
Speaker 3: Oh, it just keeps going.

1984
01:56:16,640 --> 01:56:19,960
Speaker 8: It just keeps going, and it's this whole system with

1985
01:56:20,080 --> 01:56:22,720
Speaker 8: the computer and the camera. That's a really awesome video.

1986
01:56:22,760 --> 01:56:24,040
Speaker 8: I can't find it though online.

1987
01:56:24,200 --> 01:56:25,000
Speaker 5: So where did you?

1988
01:56:25,640 --> 01:56:27,080
Speaker 3: Where did Rough Nation?

1989
01:56:27,360 --> 01:56:27,480
Speaker 7: Was that?

1990
01:56:27,600 --> 01:56:29,000
Speaker 5: Warner or Warner?

1991
01:56:29,760 --> 01:56:30,080
Speaker 3: Okay?

1992
01:56:30,640 --> 01:56:32,360
Speaker 5: I want to be the guy to bring black music

1993
01:56:32,400 --> 01:56:33,080
Speaker 5: back to Warners.

1994
01:56:33,280 --> 01:56:33,960
Speaker 3: That was my goal.

1995
01:56:34,600 --> 01:56:35,720
Speaker 5: It wasn't even about money.

1996
01:56:36,680 --> 01:56:40,080
Speaker 8: I actually took less money to go with Warners because

1997
01:56:40,840 --> 01:56:44,600
Speaker 8: and to me, the last real things in regards to

1998
01:56:46,200 --> 01:56:51,920
Speaker 8: black music of any significance was iced Tea in prints, right,

1999
01:56:52,920 --> 01:56:54,960
Speaker 8: and if you want to talk about cold chilling, I'm

2000
01:56:55,000 --> 01:56:58,280
Speaker 8: not sure, but you know that that was it, And

2001
01:56:59,160 --> 01:57:02,960
Speaker 8: I felt like if I could come there and kind

2002
01:57:03,000 --> 01:57:07,040
Speaker 8: of inject that rough House DNA into into the gig,

2003
01:57:07,440 --> 01:57:10,120
Speaker 8: you know that I could do something significant.

2004
01:57:10,840 --> 01:57:14,200
Speaker 9: So at the time when I started at rough House,

2005
01:57:14,480 --> 01:57:17,440
Speaker 9: you guys were just implementing a new system. Sound Scan

2006
01:57:17,600 --> 01:57:21,960
Speaker 9: hadn't really started yet, right, So every day I'm hearing

2007
01:57:22,120 --> 01:57:26,120
Speaker 9: all your people call and saying, hey, I need five

2008
01:57:26,200 --> 01:57:28,160
Speaker 9: hundred pieces reported in Billboard for this.

2009
01:57:28,240 --> 01:57:31,240
Speaker 5: And it was a little more subtle than that.

2010
01:57:35,040 --> 01:57:39,160
Speaker 9: But my point was then there was a point two

2011
01:57:39,280 --> 01:57:42,520
Speaker 9: months later, Oh yeah, where all that stopped. I'm like, wait,

2012
01:57:42,560 --> 01:57:44,800
Speaker 9: how come you guys aren't And people are being letting

2013
01:57:44,840 --> 01:57:47,040
Speaker 9: go because they're like, well, we have sound scan now,

2014
01:57:47,080 --> 01:57:48,080
Speaker 9: we don't need that more.

2015
01:57:48,200 --> 01:57:50,760
Speaker 8: How crazy when the chick when they went, when it

2016
01:57:50,840 --> 01:57:55,600
Speaker 8: went from from regular, when it went from the bullshit charts,

2017
01:57:55,960 --> 01:57:59,760
Speaker 8: the sound scan suddenly labels like us where the King

2018
01:57:59,800 --> 01:58:02,320
Speaker 8: of the he look right right, we sat there, man,

2019
01:58:02,360 --> 01:58:04,880
Speaker 8: You're you're trying, you're you're working a record and you're

2020
01:58:05,160 --> 01:58:10,720
Speaker 8: legitimately selling records and yet you're like trying to break

2021
01:58:10,760 --> 01:58:13,800
Speaker 8: an artist and you're in the one hundred and ten

2022
01:58:14,120 --> 01:58:18,720
Speaker 8: spot and Billboard. But then you see some god awful

2023
01:58:19,640 --> 01:58:23,480
Speaker 8: thing like sitting at number fourteen that you know is

2024
01:58:23,600 --> 01:58:27,480
Speaker 8: not selling, right, it's there. And then when SoundScan happened,

2025
01:58:27,920 --> 01:58:32,680
Speaker 8: suddenly hip hop was like the first twenty, right, it

2026
01:58:32,800 --> 01:58:33,200
Speaker 8: was crazy.

2027
01:58:38,400 --> 01:58:40,640
Speaker 5: So how do you feel now today?

2028
01:58:41,640 --> 01:58:46,920
Speaker 9: Uh, the way streaming is and stream Facebook likes, Instagram blaks.

2029
01:58:47,000 --> 01:58:51,760
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, it's just overwhelming you Well now, you know,

2030
01:58:51,840 --> 01:58:54,320
Speaker 8: it's funny, not as much as I thought, like, say,

2031
01:58:54,360 --> 01:58:54,920
Speaker 8: a month ago.

2032
01:58:55,600 --> 01:58:59,680
Speaker 5: Uh, you know, I have I somebody I.

2033
01:58:59,720 --> 01:59:02,640
Speaker 8: Started Twitter account and Instagram count like years ago, but

2034
01:59:02,760 --> 01:59:05,240
Speaker 8: never paid attention. Then I just started looking like a

2035
01:59:05,320 --> 01:59:07,160
Speaker 8: couple of weeks ago and it's like I had over

2036
01:59:07,200 --> 01:59:09,360
Speaker 8: a thousand followers on each. I said, oh, that's a

2037
01:59:09,440 --> 01:59:12,920
Speaker 8: nice little start, you know, And so I just started

2038
01:59:12,960 --> 01:59:16,560
Speaker 8: figuring how to do that. I never paid attention to

2039
01:59:16,600 --> 01:59:20,800
Speaker 8: that stuff. But in terms of the industry, I'll tell

2040
01:59:20,840 --> 01:59:23,680
Speaker 8: you what I think is. First off, when the whole thing,

2041
01:59:24,120 --> 01:59:28,320
Speaker 8: you know, digital and streaming for the first time since

2042
01:59:28,400 --> 01:59:32,800
Speaker 8: the fifties, there's now level playing field. But if you

2043
01:59:32,880 --> 01:59:39,480
Speaker 8: look at global music revenues, eighteen percent of global music

2044
01:59:39,840 --> 01:59:43,360
Speaker 8: revenues are independent artists.

2045
01:59:43,960 --> 01:59:48,560
Speaker 5: And that that's a big thing. I mean, what would

2046
01:59:48,600 --> 01:59:52,240
Speaker 5: that have been twenty years ago. Point independent artists, no

2047
01:59:52,280 --> 01:59:54,280
Speaker 5: I'm not artists not signed to record labels.

2048
01:59:54,760 --> 01:59:59,760
Speaker 8: Artists putting out music make up eighteen percent of global

2049
02:00:00,120 --> 02:00:05,840
Speaker 8: music revenues. And so this year is the I guess,

2050
02:00:05,920 --> 02:00:11,480
Speaker 8: I think it's the third year that global music revenues

2051
02:00:11,720 --> 02:00:17,040
Speaker 8: have taken a northernly upturn, you know, because let's face it,

2052
02:00:17,360 --> 02:00:20,640
Speaker 8: ever since the death now the stranglehold in the early

2053
02:00:20,720 --> 02:00:25,960
Speaker 8: two thousands, you know. But so yeah, so it's it's growing,

2054
02:00:26,280 --> 02:00:29,760
Speaker 8: and it's growing, it's going to keep growing. And I'm

2055
02:00:29,880 --> 02:00:34,400
Speaker 8: starting to see you know, labels now being a little

2056
02:00:34,440 --> 02:00:38,280
Speaker 8: bit more speculative, you know, in terms of artists and

2057
02:00:38,320 --> 02:00:39,000
Speaker 8: everything like that.

2058
02:00:39,280 --> 02:00:43,640
Speaker 9: And so in walking I've never spoken to anyone that

2059
02:00:46,240 --> 02:00:48,280
Speaker 9: once had a label and then walked away from the

2060
02:00:48,320 --> 02:00:52,800
Speaker 9: distribution deal whatever. So what happens to like a group

2061
02:00:52,880 --> 02:00:55,280
Speaker 9: like Cypress Hill will be a legacy act, so that

2062
02:00:55,400 --> 02:00:57,720
Speaker 9: album will continue to sell over and over.

2063
02:00:57,960 --> 02:01:00,840
Speaker 5: But they they brought us out, they bought the artists.

2064
02:01:01,080 --> 02:01:07,080
Speaker 10: They yeah, yeah, yeah, wow, yeah, because the yeah, because

2065
02:01:07,080 --> 02:01:09,480
Speaker 10: it was ninety nine, so yeah, the Carnival that wasn't

2066
02:01:09,560 --> 02:01:10,200
Speaker 10: rough House.

2067
02:01:10,320 --> 02:01:12,240
Speaker 5: That was rough it was Yeah. As a matter of fact,

2068
02:01:12,320 --> 02:01:15,360
Speaker 5: I paid for that record personally when we started.

2069
02:01:15,320 --> 02:01:17,680
Speaker 10: Oh wow, I love that album, and that's like, well

2070
02:01:17,760 --> 02:01:18,520
Speaker 10: that was Here's the.

2071
02:01:18,560 --> 02:01:24,320
Speaker 8: Thing, you know, they they didn't like the carnival when

2072
02:01:24,360 --> 02:01:28,080
Speaker 8: I when I when I went to the meeting, When

2073
02:01:28,120 --> 02:01:31,000
Speaker 8: I went, when I when I went, Now when I

2074
02:01:31,080 --> 02:01:32,400
Speaker 8: went to the first meeting.

2075
02:01:32,760 --> 02:01:35,560
Speaker 5: Here's what happened, Why Clef, Why Cleff.

2076
02:01:37,880 --> 02:01:41,920
Speaker 8: Originally I'd gone to Haiti a couple of times with them, right,

2077
02:01:42,160 --> 02:01:47,320
Speaker 8: and we had this idea to do a Haitian traditional

2078
02:01:47,440 --> 02:01:49,960
Speaker 8: Haitian kind of pop record, right, but mix it with

2079
02:01:50,040 --> 02:01:51,440
Speaker 8: some like hip hop and everything.

2080
02:01:52,160 --> 02:01:54,320
Speaker 5: And it was this wasn't going to be like what

2081
02:01:54,440 --> 02:01:56,640
Speaker 5: we call frontline release. This was going to be like

2082
02:01:56,680 --> 02:01:57,720
Speaker 5: an independent project.

2083
02:01:57,760 --> 02:01:59,720
Speaker 8: I was going to maybe see if Chris blackwell when

2084
02:01:59,760 --> 02:02:02,520
Speaker 8: you get involved with it on palm and stuff. So

2085
02:02:02,960 --> 02:02:06,120
Speaker 8: we start doing this record and then next thing, you know,

2086
02:02:06,280 --> 02:02:09,200
Speaker 8: it starts to kind of turn into something else. And

2087
02:02:10,080 --> 02:02:12,680
Speaker 8: now we think like, okay, now this is like a

2088
02:02:12,760 --> 02:02:18,160
Speaker 8: frontline rough house release, right, and but I had, you know,

2089
02:02:18,560 --> 02:02:23,160
Speaker 8: spent money at this point, and why Clev calls me

2090
02:02:23,320 --> 02:02:26,600
Speaker 8: up on a Tuesday night with Sonenberg to tell me

2091
02:02:27,320 --> 02:02:32,320
Speaker 8: that he booked like an eighty piece orchestra for that Thursday,

2092
02:02:33,440 --> 02:02:37,000
Speaker 8: and it was like, I haven't even gotten to like

2093
02:02:37,120 --> 02:02:40,920
Speaker 8: a budget approved or anything. And I had a meeting

2094
02:02:41,040 --> 02:02:46,560
Speaker 8: with Donnie on a Wednesday and I played him. I

2095
02:02:46,680 --> 02:02:50,400
Speaker 8: gave him the CD of like the five five or

2096
02:02:50,440 --> 02:02:55,400
Speaker 8: six songs, puts it in, listens to it, and does

2097
02:02:55,520 --> 02:02:58,000
Speaker 8: one of the worst things ever that could happen to

2098
02:02:58,040 --> 02:03:00,920
Speaker 8: you when you're trying to get somebody to like something.

2099
02:03:01,560 --> 02:03:02,600
Speaker 5: He handed it back to.

2100
02:03:04,320 --> 02:03:08,680
Speaker 3: Were staying alive on there? Uh no, no, but.

2101
02:03:10,360 --> 02:03:13,240
Speaker 8: No no. But he handed it back and he goes,

2102
02:03:13,320 --> 02:03:16,600
Speaker 8: I don't know, he goes sounds like something like vacation.

2103
02:03:16,440 --> 02:03:19,200
Speaker 5: Music or something, and I'm like think, going, yeah, now

2104
02:03:19,240 --> 02:03:20,800
Speaker 5: we got the orchestra going and ship.

2105
02:03:22,800 --> 02:03:26,240
Speaker 3: But Larry worked on that one too, right, yeah he did.

2106
02:03:27,520 --> 02:03:30,800
Speaker 3: He did. Wow, I love that album.

2107
02:03:30,840 --> 02:03:33,440
Speaker 5: Man. Oh yeah, it's a brilliant record. Man, it really is,

2108
02:03:34,640 --> 02:03:41,160
Speaker 5: really is. But but here's the thing that that the

2109
02:03:41,280 --> 02:03:45,320
Speaker 5: miseducation was the really that was the struggle.

2110
02:03:45,880 --> 02:03:51,840
Speaker 8: That was, like they first off, they didn't want a

2111
02:03:52,000 --> 02:03:58,760
Speaker 8: solo record from her, yet they wanted another Fuji's record,

2112
02:03:58,960 --> 02:04:02,400
Speaker 8: And of course, who could blame them, right, another Fuji's

2113
02:04:02,400 --> 02:04:05,880
Speaker 8: Record's gonna sell eleventy billion, you know whatever?

2114
02:04:08,040 --> 02:04:09,960
Speaker 3: But the the.

2115
02:04:12,440 --> 02:04:15,280
Speaker 8: They say said, okay, so now she's a good dual record,

2116
02:04:15,680 --> 02:04:19,480
Speaker 8: but we want we want Puffy, we want this.

2117
02:04:19,760 --> 02:04:20,720
Speaker 3: We want all these.

2118
02:04:21,480 --> 02:04:25,360
Speaker 8: And the problem was I, you know, I had a

2119
02:04:25,600 --> 02:04:29,280
Speaker 8: a thing at my house like a barbecue, and I

2120
02:04:29,440 --> 02:04:33,400
Speaker 8: invited her to come, not thinking that she would come,

2121
02:04:33,720 --> 02:04:37,240
Speaker 8: you know, And her mother called me up and says, oh, yeah,

2122
02:04:37,280 --> 02:04:39,120
Speaker 8: we're coming out, and I was like, oh, okay, so

2123
02:04:40,280 --> 02:04:42,440
Speaker 8: and she came. We hung out for a little bit

2124
02:04:42,560 --> 02:04:44,560
Speaker 8: and I had my house at the time. I had

2125
02:04:44,600 --> 02:04:49,080
Speaker 8: this room, like this music room, and she started to

2126
02:04:49,160 --> 02:04:51,680
Speaker 8: tell me about this record and it was gonna be

2127
02:04:51,880 --> 02:04:57,040
Speaker 8: like sixties and seventies soul, like the hip hop and

2128
02:04:57,160 --> 02:05:00,720
Speaker 8: this whole but real organic, you know, if analog and

2129
02:05:00,800 --> 02:05:01,400
Speaker 8: this whole thing.

2130
02:05:02,200 --> 02:05:04,080
Speaker 5: And it's like cool all this.

2131
02:05:05,320 --> 02:05:06,720
Speaker 3: And when.

2132
02:05:08,760 --> 02:05:13,920
Speaker 8: We I was in Bath, England with my wife and

2133
02:05:14,080 --> 02:05:17,320
Speaker 8: it was like three o'clock in the morning and the

2134
02:05:17,480 --> 02:05:21,840
Speaker 8: phone rings and I knew who it was.

2135
02:05:22,760 --> 02:05:25,920
Speaker 5: I knew it was gonna be Tommy and Donnie and

2136
02:05:26,440 --> 02:05:30,080
Speaker 5: I had given them the five songs, five or six songs.

2137
02:05:29,880 --> 02:05:34,960
Speaker 3: And five six songs from Miseducation. Yeah okay, and they said, and.

2138
02:05:36,480 --> 02:05:39,120
Speaker 8: Tommy's on Speak, Donnie was on speaker phone. He goes, yeah,

2139
02:05:39,360 --> 02:05:42,720
Speaker 8: Tommy and I listened to the record and we think

2140
02:05:43,560 --> 02:05:44,480
Speaker 8: the songs.

2141
02:05:44,160 --> 02:05:46,600
Speaker 5: Are very, very very mediocre.

2142
02:05:46,800 --> 02:05:52,600
Speaker 3: Oh now now I hang up and in whatever, I

2143
02:05:52,640 --> 02:05:54,080
Speaker 3: hang up, and I'm.

2144
02:05:54,000 --> 02:05:57,240
Speaker 5: Sitting there in the dark, right and my wife's asleep,

2145
02:05:57,320 --> 02:05:59,520
Speaker 5: and she's like, Chris, what's the matter? I said, they

2146
02:05:59,560 --> 02:06:01,200
Speaker 5: don't like to record, you know.

2147
02:06:02,400 --> 02:06:04,280
Speaker 8: And I'm like, and you know, but you got it.

2148
02:06:04,600 --> 02:06:08,240
Speaker 8: This is but see for me, you know, Okay, I

2149
02:06:08,480 --> 02:06:11,320
Speaker 8: like I said, Yeah, I talk all this bravado.

2150
02:06:10,840 --> 02:06:13,640
Speaker 5: About my dealings with them and everything, but still these

2151
02:06:13,680 --> 02:06:17,200
Speaker 5: are two guys who are, for the all intensive purposes,

2152
02:06:17,400 --> 02:06:20,480
Speaker 5: pretty powerful guys in the music business, you know, who

2153
02:06:20,680 --> 02:06:22,080
Speaker 5: have years and years.

2154
02:06:21,920 --> 02:06:23,120
Speaker 3: Of an experience, you know.

2155
02:06:23,760 --> 02:06:27,200
Speaker 8: But the one thing that that I held on too

2156
02:06:27,480 --> 02:06:31,760
Speaker 8: was that they were wrong about the Cleft record, completely

2157
02:06:31,880 --> 02:06:37,440
Speaker 8: wrong about that. And the record was good. It was

2158
02:06:37,600 --> 02:06:41,280
Speaker 8: just like it just like, how how could they? You know?

2159
02:06:41,400 --> 02:06:41,720
Speaker 5: I didn't.

2160
02:06:42,040 --> 02:06:42,440
Speaker 2: I didn't.

2161
02:06:42,760 --> 02:06:45,480
Speaker 9: Okay, this is the thing, though, I don't think it

2162
02:06:45,720 --> 02:06:48,960
Speaker 9: matters if it's good or bad. Could they no, no, no,

2163
02:06:49,040 --> 02:06:51,400
Speaker 9: I'm just saying, but it's the truth. Could they not

2164
02:06:51,600 --> 02:06:53,480
Speaker 9: see that it was going to be effective?

2165
02:06:54,600 --> 02:06:54,640
Speaker 5: Like?

2166
02:06:54,800 --> 02:06:55,480
Speaker 3: How could they not?

2167
02:06:56,120 --> 02:06:59,240
Speaker 5: Because she could have done any okay by that point.

2168
02:06:59,080 --> 02:07:02,880
Speaker 8: Because they would have because these guys, right, I always

2169
02:07:02,960 --> 02:07:03,520
Speaker 8: used to say that.

2170
02:07:03,640 --> 02:07:06,320
Speaker 5: I used to tell her this all the time earlier on.

2171
02:07:06,520 --> 02:07:08,960
Speaker 8: I used to say, you could sing over five minutes

2172
02:07:08,960 --> 02:07:10,800
Speaker 8: of static kiss and it'll be a hit record. But

2173
02:07:11,840 --> 02:07:16,360
Speaker 8: they lived, They live in these monolithic glass and steel

2174
02:07:17,440 --> 02:07:22,000
Speaker 8: places where everything is about radio and Greatest Gainer and

2175
02:07:22,120 --> 02:07:26,520
Speaker 8: weekly this and all that, and everything is formatted and

2176
02:07:26,800 --> 02:07:30,040
Speaker 8: this and that, right, And it's like, yeah, but the

2177
02:07:30,120 --> 02:07:36,600
Speaker 8: thing is, like I saw both the Carnival and miseducation

2178
02:07:37,440 --> 02:07:43,120
Speaker 8: these to me, this was like circa nineteen sixty eight.

2179
02:07:44,480 --> 02:07:48,520
Speaker 5: WMMR FM radio. Like you know, this isn't about this

2180
02:07:48,680 --> 02:07:52,200
Speaker 5: is about a body of work, you know, And this

2181
02:07:52,320 --> 02:07:53,480
Speaker 5: is the thing is. It's like.

2182
02:07:55,080 --> 02:08:00,480
Speaker 8: I felt that that I wasn't thinking not thinking singles,

2183
02:08:00,600 --> 02:08:06,480
Speaker 8: you know, I'm thinking this. But you know, Michael Maldon was.

2184
02:08:06,680 --> 02:08:10,560
Speaker 8: You know, we did a white label twelve inch for

2185
02:08:10,720 --> 02:08:11,280
Speaker 8: Lost Ones.

2186
02:08:12,520 --> 02:08:13,000
Speaker 5: We did it.

2187
02:08:13,600 --> 02:08:15,920
Speaker 8: Rough House did it. Clumby had nothing to do with it,

2188
02:08:16,400 --> 02:08:17,960
Speaker 8: and we didn't even tell him about it. We just

2189
02:08:18,120 --> 02:08:21,160
Speaker 8: did it and we sent out it was her idea

2190
02:08:21,920 --> 02:08:25,800
Speaker 8: and we sent that out and oh my god.

2191
02:08:25,840 --> 02:08:30,640
Speaker 5: The ship hit the fan. All right, yeah, they ship

2192
02:08:30,920 --> 02:08:33,120
Speaker 5: hit the I mean there. Oh well, here's the thing.

2193
02:08:33,200 --> 02:08:36,680
Speaker 8: They were angry or Michael Maldon was angry, you know,

2194
02:08:36,800 --> 02:08:38,480
Speaker 8: because I you know, let's face it, he was had

2195
02:08:38,480 --> 02:08:41,640
Speaker 8: a black music department and I just and I just

2196
02:08:41,680 --> 02:08:46,200
Speaker 8: went and did that ship, right, But he said, Donnie's

2197
02:08:46,240 --> 02:08:47,960
Speaker 8: gonna get ready to blow up your phone.

2198
02:08:48,360 --> 02:08:50,280
Speaker 5: But you know what, I never heard from Donnie.

2199
02:08:50,720 --> 02:08:55,040
Speaker 8: You don't know why, because now, no, I never heard

2200
02:08:55,080 --> 02:09:00,680
Speaker 8: from Donnie because it was so incredible.

2201
02:09:00,520 --> 02:09:04,160
Speaker 5: The way it started, the whole thing. It was like

2202
02:09:04,320 --> 02:09:09,440
Speaker 5: that song lost Ones. What a perfect entree vus for

2203
02:09:10,000 --> 02:09:11,000
Speaker 5: a project like that.

2204
02:09:11,320 --> 02:09:13,720
Speaker 9: But they've literally had doubts that the album is going

2205
02:09:13,800 --> 02:09:16,800
Speaker 9: to work, even though oh yeah, so how do they

2206
02:09:16,800 --> 02:09:17,800
Speaker 9: feel about the score of then?

2207
02:09:17,880 --> 02:09:22,680
Speaker 5: Oh no, no, well well no, no, not at all.

2208
02:09:22,920 --> 02:09:24,200
Speaker 5: But but I'll tell you this.

2209
02:09:24,800 --> 02:09:29,360
Speaker 8: They they wanted they they wanted. Not only did they

2210
02:09:29,440 --> 02:09:33,520
Speaker 8: want that that all that crazy you know, commercial production.

2211
02:09:34,920 --> 02:09:42,720
Speaker 8: They they definitely wanted an a nineties female R and

2212
02:09:42,920 --> 02:09:51,880
Speaker 8: B singer style photography. Yeah, it's like sont so, so

2213
02:09:52,040 --> 02:09:54,920
Speaker 8: think about this, think about think about what the cover is,

2214
02:09:55,120 --> 02:09:56,760
Speaker 8: and think about what they're thinking about.

2215
02:09:57,360 --> 02:10:01,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, album, it's can have been another cover. Yeah, yeah, no,

2216
02:10:01,800 --> 02:10:02,120
Speaker 5: it was.

2217
02:10:02,240 --> 02:10:05,000
Speaker 8: Like and no, they eventually they gave in because I

2218
02:10:05,120 --> 02:10:07,280
Speaker 8: know this that there was a there was a marketing

2219
02:10:07,400 --> 02:10:12,600
Speaker 8: meeting and Miguel B. Gower and a bunch of people

2220
02:10:12,920 --> 02:10:19,360
Speaker 8: in the room all said that the anticipation and the

2221
02:10:19,800 --> 02:10:23,480
Speaker 8: early feedback and everything was that this record was not

2222
02:10:23,680 --> 02:10:25,880
Speaker 8: only going to be critically acclaimed, it was going to

2223
02:10:25,920 --> 02:10:27,080
Speaker 8: be massive and everything.

2224
02:10:27,160 --> 02:10:30,000
Speaker 5: And then then, of course, you know, because it was

2225
02:10:30,080 --> 02:10:31,520
Speaker 5: lost ones and to do to do.

2226
02:10:32,600 --> 02:10:37,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just can't believe that they didn't know that

2227
02:10:37,280 --> 02:10:40,440
Speaker 3: they had it easy. Yeah, especially after killing.

2228
02:10:42,760 --> 02:10:45,480
Speaker 8: Well, you know, killing Me Softly was never even uh,

2229
02:10:45,920 --> 02:10:48,360
Speaker 8: it was never supposed to be a single. Fuji's didn't

2230
02:10:48,440 --> 02:10:51,080
Speaker 8: didn't even really want their song on the record, and

2231
02:10:52,320 --> 02:10:54,680
Speaker 8: and they didn't want to promote it, as you know

2232
02:10:55,040 --> 02:10:55,400
Speaker 8: they did.

2233
02:10:55,640 --> 02:10:58,480
Speaker 5: We did a video and and it just they hated it.

2234
02:10:58,760 --> 02:11:01,960
Speaker 8: So we shot it with them in the movie theater

2235
02:11:02,040 --> 02:11:05,040
Speaker 8: throwing popcorn at each other like like a non video video.

2236
02:11:05,320 --> 02:11:05,440
Speaker 3: Right.

2237
02:11:07,440 --> 02:11:10,280
Speaker 5: But yeah, that song, you couldn't stop it was that

2238
02:11:10,360 --> 02:11:11,760
Speaker 5: all love That wasn't on Love Jones.

2239
02:11:11,800 --> 02:11:16,360
Speaker 9: That wasn't you think the sweetest thing. I think it's

2240
02:11:16,480 --> 02:11:20,040
Speaker 9: possible that both can be, right, I mean it's not.

2241
02:11:20,400 --> 02:11:23,000
Speaker 9: I'm not one of these die hard Then that album

2242
02:11:23,080 --> 02:11:27,480
Speaker 9: changed my technically, that album actually changed my life in

2243
02:11:27,600 --> 02:11:33,120
Speaker 9: a technical sense. It affected my life. But I think

2244
02:11:33,320 --> 02:11:37,160
Speaker 9: I'm just shocked that they couldn't see that this was

2245
02:11:37,200 --> 02:11:37,920
Speaker 9: a no brainer.

2246
02:11:38,920 --> 02:11:42,200
Speaker 5: Well, they just they were you know what, I'll tell

2247
02:11:42,240 --> 02:11:42,480
Speaker 5: you this.

2248
02:11:43,240 --> 02:11:49,240
Speaker 8: They didn't trust their record to have all of it

2249
02:11:49,640 --> 02:11:54,360
Speaker 8: to be pulled off by her and her alone, Okay,

2250
02:11:54,640 --> 02:11:57,400
Speaker 8: because at that point she had gotten rid of her management.

2251
02:11:58,400 --> 02:12:05,840
Speaker 8: She was disassociated with everything and everybody up there except me, right,

2252
02:12:06,160 --> 02:12:08,120
Speaker 8: and that was it. So it was kind of like,

2253
02:12:10,040 --> 02:12:15,160
Speaker 8: you know, they they would have loved that that the

2254
02:12:15,400 --> 02:12:21,720
Speaker 8: A list, R and B nineties hip producers.

2255
02:12:21,200 --> 02:12:23,400
Speaker 9: You know, they didn't realize that she was the answer

2256
02:12:23,480 --> 02:12:26,320
Speaker 9: to the coming backlash that no one saw coming up.

2257
02:12:26,400 --> 02:12:26,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2258
02:12:26,840 --> 02:12:29,800
Speaker 5: Yeah. And the thing is I heard all sorts of stories.

2259
02:12:30,080 --> 02:12:33,200
Speaker 8: Uh somebody said that, you know that Puffy had this

2260
02:12:33,360 --> 02:12:36,120
Speaker 8: big meeting and pulled everybody into a room and held

2261
02:12:36,200 --> 02:12:38,120
Speaker 8: up the record and says this is where we need

2262
02:12:38,200 --> 02:12:39,920
Speaker 8: to be going and all this stuff, and.

2263
02:12:40,560 --> 02:12:44,760
Speaker 3: It just it really, you know, that's crazy. Yeh. How

2264
02:12:44,800 --> 02:12:47,160
Speaker 3: did the lawsuits and stuff affect you guys? If it all.

2265
02:12:50,280 --> 02:12:50,880
Speaker 5: I don't want to.

2266
02:12:51,440 --> 02:12:54,440
Speaker 8: I don't want to say anything, you know, I know

2267
02:12:54,560 --> 02:12:57,960
Speaker 8: I knew Beta, right, But here's here's a simple reoity

2268
02:12:58,080 --> 02:13:00,960
Speaker 8: the fact that they claimed that they wrote lyrics and everything.

2269
02:13:02,240 --> 02:13:06,720
Speaker 8: How How because I know these songs and I know

2270
02:13:07,000 --> 02:13:09,720
Speaker 8: everything that she's talking about in the songs. You know,

2271
02:13:10,520 --> 02:13:14,400
Speaker 8: moving records on South Orange Ave right, Okay, I used

2272
02:13:14,400 --> 02:13:17,320
Speaker 8: to take records there, you know, to move in records

2273
02:13:17,360 --> 02:13:18,280
Speaker 8: on South Orange, AZ.

2274
02:13:18,600 --> 02:13:21,280
Speaker 5: So why would why would those guys come up with

2275
02:13:21,440 --> 02:13:24,720
Speaker 5: that reference in that song? Why would they? How could

2276
02:13:24,720 --> 02:13:25,600
Speaker 5: they have wrote lost?

2277
02:13:25,720 --> 02:13:25,760
Speaker 8: Like?

2278
02:13:26,040 --> 02:13:28,720
Speaker 5: It's so crazy? But here's the biggest.

2279
02:13:28,360 --> 02:13:31,360
Speaker 8: Thing, right, and and here's what it is, in the nutshell,

2280
02:13:32,000 --> 02:13:35,040
Speaker 8: if they, in fact were the ones who made this

2281
02:13:36,120 --> 02:13:41,800
Speaker 8: monumental contribution to this production, well why haven't they made

2282
02:13:42,680 --> 02:13:46,760
Speaker 8: a similar monumental contribution to somebody else's production since you

2283
02:13:46,880 --> 02:13:47,360
Speaker 8: know what I mean?

2284
02:13:48,840 --> 02:13:55,560
Speaker 3: And make Yeah, that's uh, you know, I guess with

2285
02:13:55,680 --> 02:13:58,000
Speaker 3: all these due respect, James is not here too.

2286
02:13:58,440 --> 02:14:02,000
Speaker 5: Oh no, no, James, James. I know what James DIDs.

2287
02:14:02,120 --> 02:14:06,200
Speaker 5: James he wrote the thing because I'm like, after a while,

2288
02:14:06,240 --> 02:14:09,120
Speaker 5: it was just like Lauren did everything, and then people

2289
02:14:09,200 --> 02:14:10,000
Speaker 5: was like, wait a minute.

2290
02:14:09,800 --> 02:14:13,960
Speaker 9: Hold up, Yeah, yeah, but I don't think one person

2291
02:14:14,040 --> 02:14:16,320
Speaker 9: does everything yet do everything?

2292
02:14:16,480 --> 02:14:19,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, but it was a nice mark. It was

2293
02:14:19,240 --> 02:14:20,040
Speaker 5: needed at the time.

2294
02:14:20,320 --> 02:14:25,080
Speaker 8: I'll tell you what I know of some major, major

2295
02:14:25,880 --> 02:14:30,520
Speaker 8: market name producers who are out there who are given

2296
02:14:31,280 --> 02:14:36,720
Speaker 8: the ultimate credit for projects that they basically, yeah, they

2297
02:14:37,440 --> 02:14:40,360
Speaker 8: would come in and listen to some mixes and say okay,

2298
02:14:40,480 --> 02:14:42,560
Speaker 8: do this and do that and go home.

2299
02:14:43,160 --> 02:14:45,320
Speaker 5: And there's quite a few of them, and they rely

2300
02:14:45,640 --> 02:14:48,200
Speaker 5: on a lot of people the team. Right.

2301
02:14:48,400 --> 02:14:57,400
Speaker 9: Yeah about Wow, the lessons we learned today, Well, Chris,

2302
02:14:57,920 --> 02:15:01,160
Speaker 9: we thank you, thank you, thank you, thank.

2303
02:15:01,000 --> 02:15:01,400
Speaker 5: You, thank you.

2304
02:15:03,360 --> 02:15:06,600
Speaker 3: Yet this year is the anniversary of rough House.

2305
02:15:06,840 --> 02:15:11,920
Speaker 5: No, yeah, I was like, wow, you know, we're just yes,

2306
02:15:12,120 --> 02:15:14,640
Speaker 5: we're what we're trying to do is to figure out

2307
02:15:15,280 --> 02:15:15,839
Speaker 5: the research.

2308
02:15:15,920 --> 02:15:18,560
Speaker 8: You get a definitive date and we're going to probably

2309
02:15:18,720 --> 02:15:21,120
Speaker 8: use when we really just started with Columbia.

2310
02:15:21,360 --> 02:15:27,320
Speaker 5: Is the real anniversary because that's when all the records. Yeah, yeah,

2311
02:15:27,360 --> 02:15:31,680
Speaker 5: that would be yeah, thirty, it will be thirty.

2312
02:15:32,040 --> 02:15:32,920
Speaker 3: We talk about DMX.

2313
02:15:34,160 --> 02:15:37,160
Speaker 9: I forgot about how did you find DMX and why

2314
02:15:37,280 --> 02:15:40,800
Speaker 9: did y'all not uh we did a we.

2315
02:15:41,080 --> 02:15:43,440
Speaker 8: We well, you know, you know what the biggest problem was,

2316
02:15:44,280 --> 02:15:50,040
Speaker 8: we never like it was a good song, but we

2317
02:15:50,160 --> 02:15:53,760
Speaker 8: didn't have the like I never really got to.

2318
02:15:53,800 --> 02:15:56,320
Speaker 5: Hang out with him or anything, you know. And we

2319
02:15:56,520 --> 02:15:59,040
Speaker 5: did this song Born Loser, which at the time it

2320
02:15:59,200 --> 02:16:01,440
Speaker 5: was it was a good track for when you look

2321
02:16:01,440 --> 02:16:04,800
Speaker 5: at the time when that came out, Yeah, that was good.

2322
02:16:05,240 --> 02:16:08,160
Speaker 5: But we only did a singles deal. And I think

2323
02:16:08,280 --> 02:16:11,880
Speaker 5: what happened was that by the time we started trying

2324
02:16:11,920 --> 02:16:14,920
Speaker 5: to figure out what the next move was, something had

2325
02:16:14,920 --> 02:16:15,880
Speaker 5: already elapsed.

2326
02:16:16,520 --> 02:16:19,480
Speaker 8: And I know that the rough Riders had already And

2327
02:16:20,120 --> 02:16:23,680
Speaker 8: you know, I'll tell you this, I didn't get upset

2328
02:16:23,800 --> 02:16:28,480
Speaker 8: or anything because well, if I if I was so like,

2329
02:16:28,680 --> 02:16:30,560
Speaker 8: you know, like, if.

2330
02:16:30,480 --> 02:16:32,280
Speaker 5: This was something that was important to me, I'd have

2331
02:16:32,320 --> 02:16:32,840
Speaker 5: been up on it.

2332
02:16:32,959 --> 02:16:42,320
Speaker 3: You know. Wow, who knew? Yeah, well, I'll end on.

2333
02:16:44,120 --> 02:16:45,879
Speaker 5: All right, Chris, We thank you very much. Thank you for.

2334
02:16:47,520 --> 02:16:52,200
Speaker 9: The bills, Sugar, Steve and Laya. This Quest Love, Quest

2335
02:16:52,240 --> 02:16:54,360
Speaker 9: Love Supreme and we will see you on the next

2336
02:16:54,440 --> 02:16:55,560
Speaker 9: go round, all right.

2337
02:17:05,640 --> 02:17:09,400
Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic

2338
02:17:09,440 --> 02:17:15,920
Speaker 1: episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more

2339
02:17:16,000 --> 02:17:20,480
Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

2340
02:17:20,520 --> 02:17:22,120
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.