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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. I have dealt with many,

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Speaker 1: many rape victims, sex assault victims of all sorts, and

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Speaker 1: I have learned that a rape victim is never the same.

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Speaker 1: I'm just a trial lawyer, I'm not a shrink. But

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Speaker 1: every single rape victim, and there have been many, dozens

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Speaker 1: and dozens and dozens of them, always say their lives

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Speaker 1: are never the same. They go on, they continue with

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Speaker 1: their families, as mothers, as wives, working from an hourly

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Speaker 1: fee to people, women that make hundreds of thousands of

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Speaker 1: dollars a year. It affects all of them very much

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Speaker 1: the same way. Something breaks and it can't be fixed.

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Speaker 1: They learn to go on because they are strong and resilient.

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Speaker 1: I wonder how this rape victim feels knowing that her

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Speaker 1: attacker has raped so many times in the past and

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Speaker 1: was never brought to justice. I'm easy, grace. This is

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at

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Speaker 1: Vaccination in series XM one eleven. Why wasn't he stopped before?

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to the rape victim speaking out Lorie

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Speaker 1: Pinkham to our friends at GM.

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Speaker 2: I was had been out at one of the clubs.

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Speaker 2: I was doing promotions for and I was walking to

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Speaker 2: my car. He pulled up in his car next to

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Speaker 2: me and kind of cut me off and started yelling

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Speaker 2: to me like something like, hey, oh hey, I did

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Speaker 2: I saw you.

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Speaker 1: Do you need a ride?

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Speaker 2: I was like, no, I'm okay. And that's when I

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Speaker 2: saw he had a gun in his hand and he

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Speaker 2: just said get in the car.

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Speaker 1: And I.

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Speaker 2: Just got really scared and I did got in the car.

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Speaker 1: Joining me an all star panel to makes sense of

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Speaker 1: what we know right now? How is this guy allowed

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Speaker 1: to roam the streets be free when many believed he

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Speaker 1: committed rapes in the past. Let me go first to

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Speaker 1: Robert Crispin, prior, an investigator, former Federal Task Force officer

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Speaker 1: for USDJ Department of Justice with the DEA and the

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Speaker 1: Miami Field Division. Never like a business there, former homicide

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Speaker 1: detective in Crimes against Women and Children investigator. You can

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Speaker 1: find them at Crispin's Special Investigations. Robert Crispin, thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us. I'm going to you first because

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Speaker 1: that is an age old ploy to get a victim.

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Speaker 1: You're right up and say hey, you have car trouble,

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Speaker 1: you need any help, and instead of just getting in

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Speaker 1: the car, and locking the door, trying to anyway. The victim,

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Speaker 1: not knowing any better, trying to be polite, says, oh no,

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Speaker 1: I'm fine, And in those few moments that she responds,

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Speaker 1: it's like a hyena out on the serengetti just waiting

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Speaker 1: for the gazelle, the slowest gazelle and the herd, and

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Speaker 1: that's who gets attacked. In those few moments, hey moves in.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, you know, there's so many different ployees that

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Speaker 3: these guys use, you know, to hey, pull over, you

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Speaker 3: know you're getting a flat tire, or the simple little

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Speaker 3: tap bump at an intersection. Oh, I'm so sorry. Can

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Speaker 3: you go ahead and pull your car over to the right.

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Speaker 3: Let's just pull into that parking lot. Let's talk for

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Speaker 3: a minute. And then the next thing you know, he's

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Speaker 3: pulling them into a penalty box. Out comes the weapon

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Speaker 3: and it just overloads the victim to the point where

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Speaker 3: they don't know what to do. They become tunnel vision,

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Speaker 3: they become freaked out. They just freeze and they don't

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Speaker 3: know what to do, and the next thing, you know,

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Speaker 3: they just comply because they don't want to die.

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Speaker 1: Jane Fisher is joining US, a former Chief Deputy prosecutor

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Speaker 1: in Boise, Idaho, former Special Crimes chief deputy, specializing in

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Speaker 1: multiple facets of criminal law, including sex assault. Now she's

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Speaker 1: director of curriculum building Hope Today. Jane, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us. I see the same mo modus

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Speaker 1: opera and my method of operations over and over and

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Speaker 1: over again. Wouldn't you agree Jane, that once you get

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Speaker 1: in the car, it's all over.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, I mean it's it's absolutely all over. And it's

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Speaker 4: really hard to teach women to get the message out

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Speaker 4: about what to do in those sort of circumstances, especially

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Speaker 4: when a weapon like a gun is involved. You know,

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Speaker 4: we you know, we try to teach folks and you know,

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Speaker 4: fight flight, those sorts of things, but when when somebody

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Speaker 4: pull out a gun, it's real difficult to know what

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Speaker 4: to do.

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Speaker 1: At that point, and it's ingrained and so many of

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Speaker 1: us to be polite, be courteous, be kind. When somebody says, hey,

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Speaker 1: do you need help, of course most of us will

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Speaker 1: turn around and go no, no, no, we're fine, And

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Speaker 1: in that split second, that's when everything goes down. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to more from victim Laurie Pinkham.

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Speaker 2: I started getting scared and he kept driving. As soon

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Speaker 2: as we got to Charlestown and he stopped the car.

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Speaker 2: I tried to run as fast as I could, and

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Speaker 2: he got up to me, and that's when he read me,

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Speaker 2: what did that night take away from you? It took

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Speaker 2: away my freedom.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, it took away my freedom. Joining us in addition

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Speaker 1: to Robert Crispin and Jeane Fisher is doctor Sherry Schwartz,

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Speaker 1: a forensic psychologist specializing in capital mitigation and victim advocacy.

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Speaker 1: You can find her at panthermitigation dot com. Doctor Sherry,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Hearing Laurie speak is

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Speaker 1: heartbreaking to me because I know that she's right. Before

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Speaker 1: I started representing rape victims for so many years, I

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Speaker 1: didn't get it. Now I do. Her freedom has been

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Speaker 1: taken away from her. No, she's not locked, awigh, She's

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Speaker 1: not in prison. What does she mean by that, Doctor

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Speaker 1: Sherry Schwartz.

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Speaker 5: It is a prison of sorts. It's a psychological prison

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Speaker 5: that victims of sexual violence have a very very difficult

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Speaker 5: time freeing themselves from, because, especially in crimes like this

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Speaker 5: where it's described it, he happens upon her and forcibly

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Speaker 5: takes her and rapes her. You never feel safe. It's very,

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Speaker 5: very difficult to go out into public and live your

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Speaker 5: daily life because here's somebody that approaches you and says, hey,

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Speaker 5: do you need help, or they forcibly attack you from behind.

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Speaker 5: You don't see it coming, You don't know who you

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Speaker 5: can trust, you don't know who is in your area,

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Speaker 5: and it's this constant state of post traumatic stress.

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Speaker 1: You know, I've just been thinking about her words. I

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Speaker 1: lost my freedom. This woman was minding her own business.

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Speaker 1: In many Jerry trials where I've represented rape victims, I've

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Speaker 1: seen the defense try to smear the victim, like what

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Speaker 1: time of the night was if, where were you? Why

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Speaker 1: were you by yourself? Oh, it goes on and on on.

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Speaker 1: Why was your skirt short? Why was your blouse low?

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Speaker 1: Why were you by yourself? Blah blah blah, And it

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Speaker 1: goes on to why were you out jogging? Why were

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Speaker 1: you wearing a jogging bra and shorts? I mean, it

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Speaker 1: could be anything to somehow put the blame on the victim,

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Speaker 1: and now her life is changed forever. Take a listener

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Speaker 1: more from Laurie.

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Speaker 2: A big part of my life stop that day I

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Speaker 2: couldn't work. I didn't want to spend time with anybody.

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Speaker 2: Every day I've lived in fear.

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Speaker 1: It's heartbreaking. I feel like.

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Speaker 6: There's a part of her that didn't get to continue

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Speaker 6: her life, you know. So she didn't finish growing up

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Speaker 6: to become a woman with a career and a family,

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Speaker 6: and I know that breaks her heart.

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Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace. Joining us right now is

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Speaker 1: veteran reporter investigative reporter Bob Ward with Boston twenty five. Bob,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Where did this happen?

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Speaker 1: Tell me the circumstances surrounding this incident. And I also

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Speaker 1: want to point out, Bob Ward, as you know better

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Speaker 1: than anybody. Very often sex assault victims names and picku

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Speaker 1: their photographs. Their images are not made public. But in

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Speaker 1: this case, Laurie decided to speak out. That was her decision,

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Speaker 1: and you know what, Bob, I'm proud of her. I

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Speaker 1: will never forget, Bob. One of the several serial rape

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Speaker 1: cases that I prosecuted. At that time, Court TV was

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Speaker 1: just getting going and they asked could they be in

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Speaker 1: the courtroom for this serial rape case? And I didn't

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Speaker 1: bet and I have said absolutely not. That is not happening.

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Speaker 1: These ladies do not want their faces out there or

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Speaker 1: their names.

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Speaker 7: They don't.

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Speaker 1: And the Court TV guy said, well, could you just

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Speaker 1: ask them. I'm like, yeah, they're not going to want

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Speaker 1: your camera up in their face. So I said no.

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Speaker 1: But I did as I said I would. Bob asked

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Speaker 1: the ladies. I think I had either four or five

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Speaker 1: victims of one rapistaid oh yeah, there were more, but

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Speaker 1: I went forward with those and I told them about

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Speaker 1: court TV's offer, and then I had, of course declined it,

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Speaker 1: and they went, wait a minute, we didn't do anything wrong.

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Speaker 1: We're not ashamed. He should be ashamed. And do you

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Speaker 1: know Court TV broadcasts the rape case, including all of

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Speaker 1: their testimony, And I thought about it, and you know,

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Speaker 1: moments when I wasn't directing or cross examining somebody in court,

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Speaker 1: I thought about that decision of theirs because this was

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Speaker 1: you know, I guess it would have been about nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety six. How brave that was. But they're right, why

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Speaker 1: should they be ashamed? He should be the one that's ashamed.

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Speaker 7: Absolutely, And thanks for having me. Lorie Pinkham, I am

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Speaker 7: with you. I am so impressed by her for not

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Speaker 7: only going public, but she went to court on the

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Speaker 7: arrangement because she wanted to see this guy and to

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Speaker 7: come forward and talk about this is just you know,

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Speaker 7: it's just incredible. I covered a big rape trial in

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Speaker 7: Boston a few months ago, maybe last year, and it

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Speaker 7: was the same sort of thing. When that rape victim

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Speaker 7: got up in the stand and spoke in intimate detail

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Speaker 7: of what happened to her over a matter of days,

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Speaker 7: it was it was gut wrenching. So in this particular case,

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Speaker 7: for Lorie Pinkham to come out and make a stand,

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Speaker 7: she's saying, I matter, and what happened to me matters,

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Speaker 7: and I want someone to be held accountable for this.

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Speaker 1: And the phraseology that my husband and I like to

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Speaker 1: use the most, screw him and the horse he rode

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Speaker 1: in on. Why should he get the benefit of having

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Speaker 1: the victim afraid or coward out of shame? She did

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Speaker 1: nothing wrong. Guys, again with me is Bob Ward, investigative

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Speaker 1: reporter for Boston twenty five. He's been on the story

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Speaker 1: from the very very beginning. Tell me about how this

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Speaker 1: attack and that's what it is, right, And I'm going

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Speaker 1: to go back to Sherry Schwartz and Jean Fisher. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Sherry Schwartz and Jean Fisher. This is not about sex.

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Speaker 1: This is about a violent attack. Where did this happen?

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Speaker 1: How did it happen? Bob Ward, So.

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Speaker 7: What we've known so far is that women were taken

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Speaker 7: off the streets of Boston, either through some kind of

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Speaker 7: convincing them to get in the car or by force,

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Speaker 7: and then driven from downtown Boston across the river into Charlestown, Massachusetts,

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Speaker 7: which is a part of Boston. It's on the other

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Speaker 7: side of the river near the Bunker Hill Monument, and

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Speaker 7: taken to an isolated area where there are not a

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Speaker 7: lot of cars going by shipyards, that sort of thing industrial,

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Speaker 7: and that's where they were attacked. One of the women

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Speaker 7: was out for a jog, not to pick up from Boston,

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Speaker 7: was out for a jog, and she fought back and

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Speaker 7: got away. But essentially three of the four were taken

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Speaker 7: from Boston and driven out to the location where the

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Speaker 7: rapes took place.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, So what I'm hearing right now is that

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Speaker 1: there were multiple crime scenes with each sex attack. There

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Speaker 1: is the point of kidnap, there is the vehicle inside

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Speaker 1: the car, and my mind is racing with the possibilities

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Speaker 1: of all of the forensic evidence that can be obtained

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Speaker 1: from the car the point of the kidnapping. Already thinking,

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Speaker 1: were there surveillance cameras, what can I do to gather

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Speaker 1: information and marshal that information to turn it into evidence.

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Speaker 1: You've got the vehicle, You've got the route, if it

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Speaker 1: could ever be identified. I don't know if the women

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Speaker 1: were blindfolded or pushed down in a seat where they

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Speaker 1: couldn't see where they were going. But as in the

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Speaker 1: case Jennifer Doulo's the missing Connecticut mom of five, I

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Speaker 1: just can't get over how Connecticut police put together kind

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Speaker 1: of a video surveillance via surveillance real really is what

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Speaker 1: it was of the defendant at this red light, then

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Speaker 1: that red light, and the one that really grabbed me

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Speaker 1: is when they managed to get a public transit bus

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Speaker 1: and when the doors to that bus opened, the camera

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Speaker 1: caught the defendant Fotus Dulo's Jennifer's husband go buy in

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Speaker 1: a car. I mean, they tracked his every movement along

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Speaker 1: the route up to where he went to have the

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Speaker 1: murder vehicle cleaned out and detailed. So I'm just wondering

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Speaker 1: if that type of evidence could be obtained in this case.

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Speaker 1: If we can track the route. So you've got the

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Speaker 1: primary crime scene of the kidnapping, the secondary crime scene

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Speaker 1: of the asportation as it is called in the law,

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Speaker 1: in the vehicle, and then the third tertiary crime scene

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Speaker 1: would be where the rape, where the sex attack occurred.

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Speaker 1: Bob once he had raped these women, specifically Laurie, what

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Speaker 1: did he just dump her out right there?

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Speaker 7: I think that's the allegation that he just left them

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Speaker 7: there and he took off.

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Speaker 1: Did the rape occur in his vehicle?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 7: I think Laurie's took place outside because I think she

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Speaker 7: got out of the car and ran and he tackled

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Speaker 7: her and attacked her. And then there was also the

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Speaker 7: fourth victim who he was already at the scene. She's

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Speaker 7: according to the complaint, and he tackled her from behind,

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Speaker 7: So that happened outside the car as well the other two.

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Speaker 7: I just don't know.

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Speaker 1: So what do you make of that? Robert Crispin, joining

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Speaker 1: US private investigator former said with the DJ Department of Justice,

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Speaker 1: what do you make of the changing moos? You know,

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Speaker 1: people always go, oh, this isn't him because it's a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a different mo No, perhaps change their

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Speaker 1: mos when they need to.

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Speaker 3: They do, and these things just depending on how long

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Speaker 3: it goes before you get caught, they escalate, they get

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Speaker 3: more and more violence.

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Speaker 1: Joining me right now, in addition to Bob Ward, Robert Crispin,

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Speaker 1: doctor Sherry Schwartz, and Jean fish Sure, Rachel Countryman is

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Speaker 1: joining us forensic nurse expert for Godoy Medical Forensic. She's

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Speaker 1: a sex assault nurse examiner, saying, sex assault nurse examiner, Rachel,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. So once

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Speaker 1: the woman, the victim in this case has been attacked,

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Speaker 1: if she's got the guts and if she can bring

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Speaker 1: herself to do it, she then goes in for a

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Speaker 1: rape kit exam. Explain what that is, Rachel.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, Nancy, So a sexual assault forensic examination also is

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Speaker 8: called a safe is a medical exam. So first, more

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Speaker 8: first and foremost, so patients come in, we look at

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Speaker 8: them for possible injuries, treating them for acute injuries. And

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Speaker 8: then as we are doing that, we're doing a comprehensive

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Speaker 8: head to toe exam. With that, we are collecting evidence.

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Speaker 8: I mean, we have to remember that you know, the

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Speaker 8: crime scene, there's there's evidence of the crime scene, but

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Speaker 8: their bodies, the clothing, they're wearing or any of their

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Speaker 8: personal belongings can also be called described as a crime scene,

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Speaker 8: so DNA evidence could be collected from them during this exam.

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Speaker 1: You know, when you describe it that way, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: sound so bad, but it actually is bad. So what

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Speaker 1: a rape kit exam entails requires you to perform a

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Speaker 1: pelvic exam, not just regarding the woman's vagina, but her

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Speaker 1: rectum as well.

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Speaker 8: Yes, so this exam is very intimate, I like to say,

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Speaker 8: and we intimate.

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Speaker 1: That's one that's certainly putting perfume on the pig. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I've called it. Yeah, I've got to

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Speaker 1: call it more invasive.

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Speaker 8: Yes, and invasive. You are absolutely right. So, uh, we

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Speaker 8: talked about the trauma that thesectems are going through and

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Speaker 8: the emotions that they're feeling. And yes, as you described,

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Speaker 8: we do need to look very carefully in their genital area,

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Speaker 8: especially if there was penetration there or their anus, and

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Speaker 8: we are using a speculum, so not only may they

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Speaker 8: be have injuries there and bleeding or pain, but we're

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Speaker 8: having to use speculum to look inside the victim to

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Speaker 8: see if there are injuries inside as well. And sometimes

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Speaker 8: with these really violent crimes, they may need to go

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Speaker 8: and have surgery done. You know that that happens, and

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Speaker 8: then you know, turning to the rectum or the anal

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Speaker 8: exam as you described, people don't like to have that

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Speaker 8: done as a medical exam, let alone when they've been violated.

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Speaker 8: We also have a instrument called an anoscope, which is

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Speaker 8: very similar to a speculum, where it is in inserted

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Speaker 8: into the anus, into the rectal canal, and that allows

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Speaker 8: us to be able to look inside again to look

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Speaker 8: for injuries and collect swaps. So very intrusive, very invasive procedures,

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Speaker 8: and it takes hours. Like we're not talking about someone

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Speaker 8: coming in and thirty minutes they're out the door. We're

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Speaker 8: talking four to six hours minimum. And that's just depending

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Speaker 8: on what we're looking at, what kind of injuries we're

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Speaker 8: documenting and photographing and all of that.

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Speaker 1: What types of surgeries do you write victims sometimes have

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Speaker 1: to undergo.

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Speaker 8: Well, depending on what the injuries could be. There could

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Speaker 8: be lacerations inside the body, so just from force or

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Speaker 8: if objects were used, they can be lacerated in the

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Speaker 8: vaginal canal. They could have injuries inside the rectum of

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Speaker 8: the anus too. So those are the type those things

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Speaker 8: mostly that would be like an acute injury that would

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Speaker 8: need surgery.

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Speaker 1: So that is what Laurie Pinkham and many many other

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Speaker 1: ripe victims endure. But then we learn about a link,

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Speaker 1: a link to other rapes. How did it happen? Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to Laurie herself speaking to our friends at ABC.

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Speaker 9: Prosecutors say DNA testing link Nilo to Laurie's unsolved sexual

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Speaker 9: assault case and to three others. When you looked at

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Speaker 9: a picture of the suspect, what did you notice?

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Speaker 2: His eyes? His eyes mostly I just remember them because

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Speaker 2: they were like black.

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Speaker 5: Are you confident that this is the guy?

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Speaker 2: Yes? Absolutely.

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Speaker 9: Authority say they checked DNA from the victim's rape kits

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Speaker 9: against publicly accessible genealogy websites, eventually lead them to Nilo,

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Speaker 9: who has pleaded not guilty to seven counts. Lourie vowing

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Speaker 9: to face him in court.

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Speaker 2: I want him to know that I'm not scared of

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Speaker 2: him at all.

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Speaker 1: Back to investigative reporter joining us from Boston twenty five,

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Speaker 1: Bob Ward, who is Matthew Neilo?

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Speaker 7: Bob, Well, it turns out he's a young man. He's

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Speaker 7: an attorney in New Jersey. He has a really good job.

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Speaker 7: He's making some money. Was engaged, became engaged just a

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Speaker 7: short time according to his Facebook. He became engaged a

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Speaker 7: short time before he was arrested. He went to school.

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Speaker 7: He grew up here in Boston. He went to Boston Latin.

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Speaker 7: He lived in the North End of Boston, and then

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Speaker 7: when he left when he graduated high school, he went

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Speaker 7: off to study psychology at the University of Wisconsin and

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Speaker 7: Madison got his law degree in twenty fifteen and then

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Speaker 7: moved out to New York. Work in San Francisco for

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Speaker 7: a while, had a job at a law firm there.

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Speaker 7: Came to New York twenty nineteen, admitted to the bar,

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Speaker 7: and he worked for a cyber insurance company called cow Bell.

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Speaker 7: He was a cyberclaims council and he was hired according

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Speaker 7: to the company, in January twenty twenty three after he

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Speaker 7: passed a background check. So he was he was living

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Speaker 7: a good life as a corporate attorney.

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Speaker 5: Nancy.

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Speaker 1: So this is a guy who has passed the bar.

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Speaker 1: He has had positions that are pretty impressive. Yet he

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Speaker 1: managed to keep his alleged double life as a serial

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Speaker 1: rapist totally sacred Bob.

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Speaker 7: You know, these rapes were stranger rapes where the victim

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Speaker 7: doesn't know who the attacker is, and when these rapes

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Speaker 7: were committed, there was no connection between the two of them.

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Speaker 7: And we can't get inside his head, but it appears

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Speaker 7: he put enough time and space between these events and

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Speaker 7: his new life. He probably thought they would never find him,

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Speaker 7: and if it wasn't for the emergence of this genealogical

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Speaker 7: family history DNA, he probably could have gotten away with this.

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Speaker 1: Can you say he put enough time and space between

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Speaker 1: him and the rights? What do you mean by that, Bob?

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Speaker 7: I mean the amount of years, you know, two thousand

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Speaker 7: and seven, two thousand and eight, sixteen years. It's another

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Speaker 7: lifetime ago. And then he go he leaves New England.

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Speaker 7: He's living currently in New Jersey, but he also went

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Speaker 7: out west. He goes out in Wisconsin and he's in

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Speaker 7: San Francisco. You know, if in his mind I would think,

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Speaker 7: I mean, they're experts in the panel better than I do.

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Speaker 7: But I can see where he would think that I

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Speaker 7: got away with that They're never going to find me.

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Speaker 7: There's no connection between myself and the victims, and I

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Speaker 7: can move on with my.

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Speaker 1: Life except for DNA. Take a listen to our art

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Speaker 1: cut to the Boston Police Commissioner Michael Cox, this.

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Speaker 10: Arrest accumulates the investigation that employed the use of friends

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Speaker 10: genealogy from recovered evidence. All four cases are DNA connected.

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Speaker 10: These investigations utilize sexual assault evidence collection kits, which is

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Speaker 10: with the assistance of detectives and identifying the suspects as

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Speaker 10: the investigations continue. Added resources for this investigation, in addition

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Speaker 10: to the assistance from our partners at the DA's office

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Speaker 10: and the FBI, were provided through the Sexual Assault Kit

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Speaker 10: Initiative GRANT better known.

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Speaker 1: ASAKI and our cut one. The Boston Police Commissioner late.

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Speaker 10: This afternoon in the Boston Police Department, along with the

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Speaker 10: New Jersey and the Boston FBI offices, as well as

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Speaker 10: the Hudson County Sheriff's Office, arrested Matthew Nilo, aged thirty five,

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Speaker 10: formerly of the Boston North End. Nilo is charged with

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Speaker 10: three counts of aggurated rate, two counts of kidnapping, one

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Speaker 10: count of assault would attempt to rape, and one count

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Speaker 10: of in decent assault and battery. The arrests them from

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Speaker 10: a sexual assault incidents committed on August eighteenth, two thousand seven.

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Speaker 10: No him twenty second, two thousand and seven, August fifth,

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Speaker 10: two thousand and eight, December twenty third, two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 10: in the Terminal Street area of Charlestown.

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Speaker 1: Say, for all these years this rapist walked free. He

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Speaker 1: was out free, roaming the streets, having now passed the

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Speaker 1: bar and held down multiple positions as a lawyer to

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Speaker 1: rape Laurie. According to prosecutors, take a list an hour

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Speaker 1: cut for our friends at CBS two.

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Speaker 11: He was under surveillance when investigators tracked corporate Manhattan attorney

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Speaker 11: Matthew Nilo down at an event, swooping in and grabbing

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Speaker 11: DNA from his utensils and the glass he drank from.

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Speaker 12: How do you plead to those offenses?

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Speaker 11: His fiance watching clutching rosary beads as prosecutors accused him

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Speaker 11: of raping three women as many as sixteen years ago.

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Speaker 11: They also say he tried to attack a fourth and

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Speaker 11: more August eighteenth, two thousand and seven, his first reported case.

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Speaker 13: The mail told her to shut up or he would

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Speaker 13: kill her, and then he had a weapon.

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Speaker 11: November twenty second, two thousand and seven, a second one.

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Speaker 13: Where he ordered the victim out of the car knocked

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Speaker 13: her to the ground and raped her.

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Speaker 11: Then August fifth, two thousand and eight, a third rape.

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Speaker 13: Matt Kit yielded a male DNA profile which is matched

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Speaker 13: to the unknown mail profile from the previous.

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Speaker 11: To December twenty three, two thousand and eight, a fourth

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Speaker 11: woman was able to stop her attacker. Prosecutors say the

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Speaker 11: DNA from a glove shows another likely link.

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Speaker 1: We see the same mo here, the same method of operation.

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Speaker 1: But to Bill McKay simply on copycat crimes is difficult.

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Speaker 1: I've done it before. The DNA makes all the difference.

435
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Speaker 1: Joining me right now. Renowned in his field, Michael Brophy

436
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 1: with Browthy Professional Genealogy and Air Searching is a professional

437
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 1: genealogist based in Boston. You can find him at brophygen

438
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: dot com. Michael, thank you for being with us. Explain

439
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: the type of DNA that was used to match up

440
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: these cases and identify thirty five year old Matthew Nilo.

441
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 12: Nancy, thank you for having me. The type of testing

442
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 12: that was done, according to one report, was done by

443
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 12: a company called twenty three and Me, which is known

444
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 12: for medical testing for predispositions to some genetic disorders. Basically,

445
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:37,479
Speaker 12: what happens in these cases is that law enforcement uses

446
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 12: investigative genealogy in the DNA testing databases to upload a

447
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 12: DNA profile were covered from evidence from the case, from

448
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 12: the crime scene, and then they'll match it to a

449
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 12: DNA database like twenty three and me according to one

450
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 12: report that I saw, and basically what happened is that

451
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 12: they will match it up to a relative and then

452
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 12: the genealogists will go and trace the family tree forward

453
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 12: to a person of interest. I think it's important to

454
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 12: know that the techniques used by investigative genealogists do not

455
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 12: solve the crime, but they provide good leads for law

456
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 12: enforcement to track down a person who may have committed this.

457
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 12: And I get the feeling from this that there may

458
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 12: have been more than one suspect on this if this

459
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 12: goes in the way that most cases go, I.

460
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: Don't know of any other suspects, do you.

461
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 7: Bob Board No, I think this is the only suspect

462
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 7: we just saw.

463
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: In for instance, just an example, in the Brian Coburger case,

464
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: the DNA match was one out of five point three

465
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: Octilian likelihood that the DNA donors anybody but Brian Coburger.

466
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: I mean that's more people than live on the planet

467
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: or have ever lived on planet Earth. So I don't

468
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: know about any other suspect that would have even a

469
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,479
Speaker 1: similar DNA match other than Matthew Nilo the lawyer.

470
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 12: Yeah, I think what I meant to say was that

471
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 12: there is when you're tracing the family tree forward, usually

472
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 12: there are several people of interest, and perhaps the law

473
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 12: enforcement when they went out and tried to search for

474
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 12: a particular person, mister Nilo or otherwise they eliminated some

475
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 12: people based on lack of a DNA match. When they

476
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 12: recovered his DNA from the silverware and the water glass,

477
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 12: I believe it was at this corporate function that he

478
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 12: was attending. So yeah, I mean to your point, I

479
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 12: don't believe that there were any other suspects in this case,

480
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 12: but to do their due diligence, I believe law enforcement

481
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 12: would have to look at a number of different people

482
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 12: and then narrow it down to this particular guy.

483
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace mob War joining us from

484
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: Boston twenty five, could you describe what Michael Brophy was

485
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: discussing regarding getting the DNA match off silverware left behind

486
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: at a corporate event.

487
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 7: Sure, it appears that Boston police and the FBI, when

488
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 7: they started narrowing things down, they got that family match,

489
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 7: and then they needed to get the full match, and

490
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 7: he would have been on his list of people. He

491
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 7: would have lived in the North end of the time.

492
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 7: There was a sketch produced at the time of these

493
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 7: rapes these attacks. He looks like the sketch, so he

494
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 7: zarrowed in on him and they had to follow him

495
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 7: around and put him on surveillance, and they found an

496
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 7: event that he attended where they could watch him take

497
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 7: a drink from a glass, use some utensils, and then

498
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 7: when he put those things down, they grabbed them and

499
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 7: that's what they used. That's where they got his DNA

500
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 7: to run against their unknown sample off these rape kits.

501
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 7: The same thing they did in the Boston Strangler case

502
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 7: when they came up with an arrest in twenty thirteen,

503
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 7: they got a family member of Albert DeSalvo did the

504
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 7: exact same thing Boston police and they got a match

505
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 7: that showed a DNA match for the final victim of

506
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 7: the Boston Strangler. So it's interesting. It's an interesting technique.

507
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: It really is. I've seen DNA matches taken off of

508
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: a discarded pizza crust before you know, And again to

509
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: the coburger case. The coburger father's DNA I believe was

510
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: taken off a cigarette butt that he had thrown out.

511
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: It was taken off trash the father had thrown out

512
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: at his home in the Pocono's Doctor Sherry Schwartz joining

513
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: US forensic psychologist Doctor Sherry. He really thought he was

514
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: home free. He was living a life with a new

515
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:06,239
Speaker 1: beautiful fiance. Now he's passed the bar, holding down a

516
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: corporate job, I mean, live at large and throwing out

517
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: or discarding, abandoning the silverware and cutlery at this corporate event.

518
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: No idea the cops were surveilling him.

519
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 5: No, that that's pretty clear that he really thought he

520
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 5: had gotten away with this and that he was living

521
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 5: his best life in from what I understand, the luxury

522
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 5: condominium complex in New Jersey, you know, having his dream

523
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 5: job as an attorney, and that this was all far

524
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 5: behind him. So I imagine that it was quite a

525
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 5: shock to him. I did see a photo of him

526
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 5: in one of the news stories where it appears to

527
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 5: me he looks very angry and almost indignant at having

528
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 5: been caught.

529
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing that he's angry that he's gotten caught. It's

530
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: also amazing. How you know, and I'm sure you've seen

531
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: this many times. Jeene Fisher Gene, chief deputy prosecutor out

532
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:12,439
Speaker 1: of Boise, who's handled so many rape cases. Gene, how

533
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: the rape victim's life is forever changed. Like you hear

534
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: Laurie describing how she lost her freedom. She can't go out,

535
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:27,720
Speaker 1: she can't interact with people after being kidnapped and brutally raped.

536
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 1: It's changed her forever. And here's this guy charged with

537
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: all these rapes, this lawyer out of New Jersey, and

538
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 1: he's living large. He's got a whole new life, corporate

539
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: legal job, new fiance, the works. It's like none of

540
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: this meant anything to him. He's probably already forgotten about

541
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:45,879
Speaker 1: it all.

542
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean victims, you know, Like she said, Lari said,

543
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 4: her life has completely been changed. Everything that she's done

544
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 4: in her daily life since that time has changed, as

545
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 4: far as not only who she thinks she herself and

546
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,760
Speaker 4: how she perceives everybody else around her. And that constant

547
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 4: sense of looking over your shoulder that you know you're

548
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 4: that you're not safe. It is it is you know.

549
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 4: That's what I think makes these crimes just so so difficult,

550
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 4: and unfortunately, I still don't think that the penalties oftentimes

551
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 4: match the victimization that rape victims go through. People just

552
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 4: don't understand how much it changes their lives and really

553
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 4: alters who they who they were, and who.

554
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 1: They've becomes a sense of powerless ness that I have

555
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: picked up from rape victims and child less station victims.

556
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: They feel powerless to control anything after the attack. Well,

557
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: this certainly is the first time a rapist has committed

558
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: rapes in the past. Years go by, the rapist is unapprehended,

559
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: it strikes again. Take a listen hour cut twenty five

560
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:03,280
Speaker 1: our friends at w RG. I'm sure nobody has forgotten

561
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: the case of teacher Eliza Fletcher out for a run

562
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,359
Speaker 1: in Memphis when she's attacked by a serial rapist. Take

563
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 1: a listen.

564
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 14: A recently tested a rape kit from a case back

565
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 14: on September twenty first of last year has been connected

566
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 14: to a man a charge with kidnapping and murdering Eliza Fletcher.

567
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 14: The DNA match came back the same day Fletcher's body

568
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 14: was found behind the abandoned house in South Memphis. According

569
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 14: to Memphis Police. A sexual assault report was taken on

570
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 14: September twenty first, twenty twenty one. The sexual assault kit

571
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 14: was submitted to the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation two days later,

572
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 14: but of.

573
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: Course with nothing to compare that too. In other words,

574
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: they didn't have the purpse DNA to make a comparison

575
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: to the rape DNA. It went unsolved until he murdered

576
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: Eliza Fletcher. And just because he's a lawyer, that doesn't

577
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 1: mean a heel of beans. Here's an example of a

578
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: medical doctor who is a serial rapist. Take a list

579
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,919
Speaker 1: now cut fourteen thoughts thirty one.

580
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 15: A local doctor is facing sexual assault charges, and Denver

581
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 15: police believe that there could be more victims out there.

582
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 15: According to court documents, Stephen Matthews was last arrested last

583
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 15: month after a woman told investigators that she was the

584
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 15: victim of a date rape attack in January. He's facing

585
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 15: three felony charges related to that case.

586
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: Now, investigators say that they've.

587
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 15: Received quote, subsequent information indicating that there may have been

588
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 15: other incidents involving Matthews. If you have any information, contact

589
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 15: the police department.

590
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: A renowned cardiologist, that's who we're talking about now, believed

591
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: to be a serial rapist. Back to Bob Ward. It

592
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: can be a dentist, it can be a doctor, in

593
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: this case, a lawyer, it can be a pastor. It

594
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be some thug hiding behind a bush

595
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: that jumps out in the middle of the night. But

596
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: in this case, I'm very curious as to why a

597
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 1: aerial rapist has made bond number one and number two.

598
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: I think that the database needs to be searched in Wisconsin,

599
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: in San Francisco, an entire national database search needs to

600
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: be done because I find it hard to believe that

601
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: he went dormant for that number of years before he

602
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: started raping again.

603
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 7: Right, And it cuts to what you were talking about

604
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 7: why these rates happen. It's not for the sex, it's

605
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 7: for the for the power. There's something else going on.

606
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,800
Speaker 7: And how does that urge just suddenly leave that person

607
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 7: if they feel they're invincible, that they can get away

608
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 7: with it and nothing is ever going to happen to them.

609
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 7: I agree with you, I think, and I've read that

610
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 7: they are searching out Wisconsin, where he went to college,

611
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 7: which would be an obvious place to be checking because

612
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 7: these other attacks took place. I think around the time

613
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 7: he was getting out of heis no, I have to

614
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 7: go back and check. I don't want to. I don't

615
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 7: want to commit to that, but they have to, you know,

616
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 7: they have to check where he was and what he

617
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 7: was doing and see if there are more unsolved attacks.

618
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,399
Speaker 1: Like Another issue is why has this guy made bond? Yeah,

619
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 1: I don't care how much is She's beautiful fiance sitting

620
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,760
Speaker 1: out on the in the corner of the courtroom, clushing

621
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: a rosary. He does not need to be out on bond.

622
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 7: And they gave him a high bail of five million dollars,

623
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 7: so she posted a healthy amount of money five hundred

624
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 7: thousand dollars cash to put him on a GPS. But

625
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 7: you're right, GPS monitoring devices only works so well. And

626
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 7: there I can't tell you how many cases I've covered

627
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 7: where people waiting trial rapists cut their GPS and just

628
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 7: take off. And if anyone has the means to do

629
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 7: something like this, if they can post half a million

630
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 7: dollars bail, I would think there's money there that if

631
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 7: you really wanted to flee, he could

632
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: Oh yes, he could fla bob or we wait as

633
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: justice and of holds goodbye friend,