WEBVTT - Andy Slater 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.680 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob left That's Podcast. My 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:16.239 guest this week is the andys Later. You know him 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:20.520 as a manager, a record company executive. Now he's got 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:23.400 another feather in his cap. He is the writer and 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:28.400 director of the new movie Echo in the Canyon. Andy, Hi, Bob, 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.000 Good to see you man. Okay, so how'd you come 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:34.199 up with the idea for this film? Well, I was 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:37.920 a journalist, you know, in the late seventies and eighties 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:40.840 of rock Critic, and the idea of the of people 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:43.880 listening to each other and these records being traded back 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:47.440 and forth was always there. But you know, you come 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:50.440 to a point in your life where you sort of 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:53.600 reflect back on what you've done, as you know, in 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:57.040 an attempt to go forward. And that moment came for 0:00:57.120 --> 0:00:59.440 me when I was looking at this film. I had 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:04.039 just left Capital, which we will describe as fired and uh, 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:07.080 and I saw this film called Model Shop. Okay, just 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.960 to stop there for a secure because that's featured in 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:13.960 the film and you talk about it, but it was 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:16.240 kind of hard for me to google it. And the 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:18.720 reason I asked this is how did you find it? 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:21.480 Jacob and I were sitting on my couch trying to 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:23.440 figure out what we were doing. Jacob Dilan and I 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:26.080 was sitting on my couch and and we saw this 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:30.600 thing on TCM. So it was completely random. And you know, 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:32.640 in the in the film, we start seeing all these 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.080 places where we would go all the time, and it 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:38.720 was like, you know, the farmers market and in Libreya 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:42.840 and Santa Monica and and it just looked beautiful. It 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:44.200 looked like and it was not you know, shot in 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:46.720 the nine sixty seven by a French director named Jacques 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:51.040 Demy and and it reminded us of, you know, the 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:53.800 reason that we came here in the beginnings of the 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:56.240 music scene. You know, you never know how something's going 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:59.880 to inspire you, and so for sure, and so the 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.680 sight of that made us think of music. And so 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:06.400 we said, oh, you know, you know, you know the birds, 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:08.520 you know that bells of Rimney. I love it. And 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:10.200 we started talking about all these songs, and I said, 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:12.680 let's let's go, what if we do a record of 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:15.520 these songs? And Jacob was like, well, which songs? And 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.040 then we got out of guitar and we started listening 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:20.400 to the songs and and that, and then it evolved 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:25.000 from there. Okay, do you play the guitar? How? Well, well, 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:27.840 I've been playing since some fourteen. And Peter Buck from 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:31.400 r M and I had a band. How did they 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:33.880 come together? Well, we were the only two guys at 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:37.639 Longstreet Hall at Emory University that had guitars, and and 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:41.160 I had a Carlo Rebelli stratocaster, which was the set 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:44.360 cheap Samash version. You know, I had a Hendrix white 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:48.560 and and Peter had a real Fender stratocaster. And so 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:50.760 we would jam and you know, in our in our 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:52.960 dorm and and it's funny because we would, you know, 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:54.600 we would play like in the midnight hour, and you 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:56.400 know when you're jam with somebody, I play chords and 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:58.079 then you play lead, and then you play chords, and 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:00.720 I believe and everything Peter did ounded like last Train 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:03.480 to Clarkson, and he made a career out of it. 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:06.040 You know. Okay, but when did you realize this was 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:10.560 not your path? Well? I you know, it all goes 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:14.000 back to the hot Tuna story, Bob. I mean, our 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:18.000 audience is not here as part of that story. Well 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:27.480 that's a good story. So in nineteen seventy five, my 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:30.600 friend Larry Dale and I, who were freshman member university, 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.040 wanted to go see Hot Tuna play and they were 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:35.720 playing at the Gore Ballroom in in Atlanta, and we 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:37.720 U said, look, we gotta go down there at five o'clock. 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:39.560 We gotta get online early because we want to be 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:41.800 in the front. So we got there at five o'clock 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:43.760 and it looked like nobody was there. I thought they 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:46.200 canceled the show. Maybe that's how they do it in Atlanta, 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:48.640 but at least in the seventies. So we went. We 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.360 went around to the back and and we saw these 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:54.960 boxes that said Jefferson Airplane on them, and we said 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:59.200 to this guy, hey, are those official Jeffer Jeffers boxes? 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:00.600 And the guy said yeah, want to lift them up 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:04.400 those stairs? And I said could we? So Larry Dale 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:07.080 and I we lift the boxes up the stairs, and 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:09.160 you know, we load their gear in, and I say 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:11.800 to the guy, hey, do you think if we come 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.400 back after we could we could carry these boxes out. 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:18.119 The guy go sure, So we're all static we're lifting 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:21.400 Jefferson NEVNY boxes. Anyway, after at the end of the night, 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:23.320 we helped them load their gear and we say, look, 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:26.120 you guys are playing at the Academy of Music in 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:29.360 New York. Do you think you would get us in 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:32.719 next week if we come and help, you know, help 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:34.760 you load those boxes? And said, yeah, look, if you're there, 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:36.680 sure we'll get your X sage. Because the Vinny, the 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:38.440 guy who was the road, he was the guy named 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:40.640 Vinie Delbono when he was from New York. And then 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:45.000 we became friendly and and you know, got drunk together. Anyway, 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:49.400 we go to New York and I am standing backstage 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:52.640 and I say to Vinny, you know you guys don't 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:54.920 have any tour jackets, like you don't have any satin 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:58.480 jackets that everybody has satin jackets. Now I have an 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.600 idea to make a satin jacket. If I give you one, 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:03.640 will you show it to you him? And he says yeah, sure. 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:05.680 So the next day I go to Paragon Sporting Goods 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:07.920 on seventeen Street. I go downstairs and say, hey, I 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:10.599 want to make a baseball jacket. Can you point me 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:12.680 in the direction to the guy who does that? Point 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:14.960 me downstairs and I say to the guy, look, I 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:16.760 want to do it like San Francisco giants clus I 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:19.160 wanted black statin jacket. I want Arne stripes and I 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.520 want yourma, this is the name on the back end. 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:23.200 I'm gonna draw you the logo and this is what 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:24.720 the logo looks like. And can you have the guy 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:26.120 do that and send it to me? And I give 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:29.280 the guy the money and he sends me the the 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:32.520 prototype in Atlanta, and I send it to Vinnie and 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:34.760 I get a phone call and he says, Yama loves 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:38.119 the jackets. We want twenty five and you can ship 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:39.040 them to me. And I said, no, no no, no, I 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:41.200 want to bring him out. And so so of course 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:43.479 I whack up the price of the jackets to pay 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:45.880 for my planet and give me a little spending money. 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:48.480 And I go out there and they take the jackets. 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:52.240 But what that leads to is, you know, a a 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:56.159 kind of friendship with Hot Tuna. And when Hot Tuna 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:59.720 breaks up, I ask if I can interview you Ama 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:03.240 from my school paper, and I interview this time. Are 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:06.760 you already writing for the school paper? I think I 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:10.120 wrote a record review, you know, and for the Emery 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:14.400 Wheel and Yourma lets me interview him, and I, you know, thought, 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:16.560 this is it. This is the pinnacle. You know, I've 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:18.360 got the hot tune to break up story and I 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:20.160 and I send a letter to Jim Hanky, who was 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:22.280 a music eatitor a rolling Stone at the time. So 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:24.440 I've got the exclusive if you want it. You know, 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.880 I sent one of those schmucky letters anyway, which which 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:32.200 didn't get returned, but anyway, so that started my path 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:35.320 in you know, in in journalism, and as it relates 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:38.760 to Peter Buck when r E. M. You know Peter, 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:42.279 we graduated, he moved to Athens, he started this band, 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:45.800 and I wound up writing the first story about them 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:48.920 in the Atlanta Journal Constitution because I eventually went to work. 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:54.359 There was very lucky another the you know, strange story 0:06:54.360 --> 0:07:00.640 of how I got there. Well, so I was writing 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:03.600 for the Emery Wheel and I had all these clippings 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:05.400 and I was at a party and there was a 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:09.240 guy named Roger Pavey. He was the entertainment editor of 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:14.360 the Atlanta Journal. And he said to me, I, you know, 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:17.680 we were at this party and and I had this 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:21.440 weed and I said, hey, you know, you want to 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:22.880 you want to smoke some weed with me? And the 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:24.800 guy I didn't really know who he was, and he said, yeah, 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:26.560 you know, and it turned out this is who he was. 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:29.800 And I said, look, you know, I'm writing for my 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:31.600 school paper. I'd like to do some reviews for you. 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:33.200 Can I send you my clippings? And he said yeah, yeah, 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:36.240 s our kids sand So I got my clippings together. 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:39.400 I sent him to Roger. I didn't hear anything. Three 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:41.600 weeks later, I called it. I trump at the paper. 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:44.680 I say, hey, Dandy Slater, I sent you my my clippings. 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:47.760 You remember, he said, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Hey you 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:52.760 got any more of that weed? I said yeah, yeah, 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:54.480 he goes right, We'll meet me at manuel S tavern. 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:57.560 You know, we'll, you know, we'll talk about this. So, 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:01.480 needless to say, they started signing me is and how 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:07.080 much was a review worth actually, you know, I mean 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:09.480 at that time forty dollars was like a hundred parts. 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:12.679 So it was good. And that event that they liked 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:15.440 my writing, you know, And and so they started giving 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:19.240 me more assignments. And and one of the assignments that 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:22.360 I got was, you know, to cover to cover the 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:24.680 Athens music. So you and I wrote this story about R. E. M. 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:27.040 And then eventually wrote the first story in Rolling Stone 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:29.880 about R. E. M. The New Faces piece. But so 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:34.440 that's really the let's go a little bit slower. So 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:36.800 when you're at emery, do you know you want to 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:41.640 be a journalist? No? I actually, you know, there were 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:45.760 guys at the time working at Columbia who were giving 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:49.000 records to me for free, like the guys who became 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:50.880 you know, big executive, or John Faggott who was a 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:53.360 head of promotion at Capital he worked there, and guy 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:55.400 named Alan Orman and a guy named Ed Nwf was 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:59.160 still Warner Brothers. And those guys were giving me records. 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:01.520 You remember, this is nine teen seventy five seventy six. 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:05.720 The record businesses, as you know, a colorful, wonderful place 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.680 to probably, like you know, the tech industry is now, 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:12.240 and to me it just all seemed shiny. Mean I 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:15.240 was studying, like you know, political science. My parents wanted 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:17.880 me to be a lawyer. I mean, you know, I 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.400 would have said my major was like the Grateful Dead, 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:22.240 because all I really wanted to do was follow them 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:25.280 around and any you know, and find any tributary that 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:28.040 that that Jerry had gone down, whether it was Merle 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:31.320 Haggard or you know, or Hank Williams or any of 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:33.679 the great stuff I learned from listening to those records. 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:38.080 But um, you know my it was really the journalism 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:42.480 became the the outlet for me to express the things 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:47.199 I felt about music, and which I, by the way, 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:50.360 don't think I was very well expressed, but you know 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:54.760 it led me to to being able to get inside 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:57.880 and and see this world that was mystical to me. Okay, 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:01.400 but before you fell in with the hot tuna, did 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:05.080 you believe you could make it as a musician. No, Okay, 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:07.080 so we're having fun in college. I mean, you know, 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:10.480 making it as a musician. I just you know, I 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:14.160 thought I could play things that other people had had 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:18.280 had played. You know, I think there's there's several kinds 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:22.800 of of accomplished musicians. You know. There are guys who 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:26.719 can absolutely mimic what they hear and go on the 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.640 road and make your record come to life. And then 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:31.680 there are are guys in a studio that you work 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:35.679 with who you know, can hear melody and hear counterpoint 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:40.320 and bring sections to life and whatever instrument they are, 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:42.439 you know, whatever you need. And I clearly was not 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:45.720 that so as somebody who was just mimicking what I heard, 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:49.080 I kind of felt like you know, tracing paper fake. 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:50.800 So I really didn't do any but all through the 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:54.520 ensuing forty years, you've continued to play the guitar. Well, yeah, 0:10:54.600 --> 0:11:00.200 I actually I have a I have a band which uh, 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:05.920 which which we play well? Anyway, with a band, you know, 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:10.280 how often do you play? Well, we were playing every 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:15.480 Tuesday night, you know, at this bar and uh and occasionally, 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:19.080 you know, I'm a little apprehensive about talking about this 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:25.840 band because it's because it's turned into well, okay, in 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:34.200 one or we that was at a point in my 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:38.280 career where I had had it was a transitional place. 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:40.720 So I had been a manager, and I had managed 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:45.640 the Beastie Boys and Lenny Kravitz and co managed Don Henley, 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:47.960 and all of that went away and I sort of 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:50.280 started over. Okay, just to be clear, that went away 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:56.360 because well, I think each of those situations, you know, 0:11:56.840 --> 0:12:00.920 being a manager sometimes has a lifespan, and sometimes you 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:03.560 know your partner it is one thing, and the partner 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:05.599 it is that it just it just you know it 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:09.520 it evolves that way, you know. In the In the 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:13.200 case of Lenny Kravitz, I think he was used to 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:17.560 having a very hands on, day to day personal manager 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:20.080 that would do those kinds of things, and for me, 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:24.599 management was was as a partnership was a creative partnership, 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:27.640 you know, as much as it was a business partnership. 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:30.400 And I think Lenny was just getting used to having 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:32.200 somebody other than the guy he had been friends with 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:35.960 forever and I wasn't really going to do that. Um, 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:38.920 you know, the with the Beastie Boys. That was. That 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:41.920 was one of the most amazing, you know, times of 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:46.360 my life because I was around the making of Paul's Critique, 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:49.800 which was legendary, which is just an incredible record, and 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:53.880 they you know, were and the surviving members still are, 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:58.520 you know, just so brilliant. Um. And that was I 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:03.240 think that record was difficult because it was coming off 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:08.599 the heels of a huge success at def Jam, a 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:12.480 licensed Hill and and you know, they had expectations of 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:15.640 what they wanted to do, and they made a record 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:23.600 that was completely groundbreaking and outside of any uh any 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:27.720 place to fit in radio to drive it. I mean, hey, ladies, 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:30.560 you know is one of the great singles and that 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:33.200 artful synthesis of all of those styles that are in 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:37.400 that record. Uh, at that time just didn't was not 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:39.360 a follow up to Hit five. You're as party as 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:41.720 you know and as you so eloquently in your column 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:47.720 stated many times, you know, radio listeners often want to 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.680 hear something that sounds familiar to them, and it drives 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.200 the business of radio. And if you don't fit into 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:58.560 that format, unless you have a very powerful uh machine 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:01.120 behind you that can keep record on the radio till 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:03.480 the test, well at least at that time, you're gonna 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:05.600 have three weeks and you're gonna be done. And in 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:09.160 the case of Paul's boutique, you know, Capital was trying 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:12.439 very hard to mimic the success of License to Ill 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:15.760 and Hay Ladies did not sound like Fight Fear right 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:17.840 at the party, and the band was also in a 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:21.600 transitional place where they were starting to play instruments and 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:26.040 touring in the way they had before was impossible. So 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:28.600 all of that, you know, led to a kind of 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:32.400 one album, Uh, you know, Lifespan for me, and you 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:35.120 know we remained great friends. But I'm off on a tangent, 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:39.200 but cool. You know that digression is this splice of life, 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.800 you know that that led me to a place where 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.400 you know, and and Henley and I had a I mean, 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:52.239 I I learned so much. I mean, I would say 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:57.520 of what I know about making a record and being 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:02.160 uh a manager in in the record is really from Dawn. 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:06.920 So tell me us, tell us two things you learned. Well. 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:12.400 I learned about the attention to detail. And I learned 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:20.440 that in making something you must examine and re examine 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:24.560 and be sure before you put it out into the world. 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:34.160 And I also learned to approach the the the putting 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:36.720 those things out in the world with dignity and grace. 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:43.960 And he was always somebody who was smart, articulate, and 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:47.280 and you know, very thorough about about how he did 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:48.440 what he did. And I had a lot of respect 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:49.880 from him. You know, It's funny because I was a 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:53.520 journalist at a time in the late seventies. What was 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:58.080 very fashionable at that time was to sort of deconstruct 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:01.560 the thing that the Eagles and phillywood Mac had built 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.960 and punk rock and that you know, ethic was was 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:09.680 the sign of the times. And when I met the 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:12.000 Eagles and interviewed them and went on the road at 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.960 them in nineteen seventy nine, I found Don to be 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:20.400 this really well read, you know, well spoken, um uh writer. 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:22.120 He was like a writer's writer to me. He was 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:26.600 a you know, the lyricist. And so when I eventually 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:29.600 came to work with with with him as a solo artist. 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:32.560 You know, I said, my friends who are journalists will really, 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:34.960 you know, really like you if you just talk to them, 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:39.160 because you know, it's clear that you're a man of letters. Um. 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:41.720 And that was, you know, part of the beginning of 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:46.400 our you know, friendship and working relationship that started when 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:51.440 so I can't I went to I left journalism. Let's 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:54.600 see what the eagles came through town in Atlanta and 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:59.160 psalters tell your experience there. Well, getting an interview from 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:03.360 the eagles was, you know, was the genesis for the 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:08.919 newspaper wanted a story on the eagles, and I I 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:12.399 when I, you know, all these things happened to you 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:13.920 in your life and you just, you know, you don't 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:15.359 really know where they're gonna lead you. But I was 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:17.919 on an airplane when I was thirteen, going to Washington, 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:22.159 d c. From my cousin's high school graduation, and there 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.800 were two guys sitting behind my grandparents and I and 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:28.320 I one of them was wearing a Live Dead T 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:31.160 shirt and I was like, that looks like Bob Ware. 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:33.800 So I got up on my chair and I said, hey, 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:37.400 are you you famous? Ebob ware and the guy says 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:41.160 to me, no, man, I've known more famous than you. 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.560 I'm Eric Anderson, I'm a songwriter. And the other guy 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.360 next to him said, well, I'm Michael Kleffner and I'm 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:50.439 the program director of w n a W. And he 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:55.480 had this big handlebar mustache. Anyway, I later, you know, 0:17:55.680 --> 0:18:00.720 years later, after the Hot Tuna, you know, Rhody Vinny 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.000 and you know Escapade, and I became friends with those 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:07.399 guys they met, you know, they're friends who worked for 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:11.359 the Grateful Dead. And I was luckily lucky enough, you know, 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:13.880 at nineteen or twenty to be backstage at the Academy 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.280 Music when the Dead played, I think it was. I 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:20.280 think it was the Academy Music still then um when 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.199 they played, and there was this guy with the handlebar 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:24.560 mustache back there, and I was like, well, that's the 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.080 guy I saw when I was thirteen. And I said, hey, man, 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.240 I met you with my parents and you're at w 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:32.439 n W. And he said, no, I'm head of promotion 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.760 for Atlantic regoritarys my card and hey, give me a call. 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:38.280 I was right write, so I wrote him all I kept, 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:40.120 you know, I kept hocking him when I was in college. 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:42.000 I would write them, you know these letters. Hey, I 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:43.399 really want to work for Atlantic Records. Hey, you know 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:44.720 I really like the record. He says, Hey, I'm a 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.320 journalist now. Hey, then I saw I had you know, 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:50.200 this is nineteen seventy seven and seventy nine. I started 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:53.520 working for the newspaper and they needed an interview with 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:55.080 the Eagles. And I read in Billboard that he went 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:57.480 to work for Irving Azof and front Line Management. So 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:01.160 I called it Michael Kleffner and I say, Michael, I'm 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:03.359 now in Atlanta at this big paper. I need to 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:06.040 interview the Eagles. He's all right, I'll introduce you assaulters 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:11.320 pray for this the Eagle. So so I call up 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:13.639 Larry So. I say, hey, Larry Man Slater and on 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:15.520 the pop music critic at Atlanta Journal, I like the 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:17.280 inter of the Eagles, and he says, they don't do interviews. 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:21.000 I gotta go by, like ship, what do I do? 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:24.600 I need this story? Damn it? Okay, I go I 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:29.680 got it. Okay, called Laric back Larry. Hey, it's Anny 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:32.240 Slaria pop musical advantage of Hey you doing yeah? Yeah 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:34.919 what I said? Look, I don't want interview Eagles. I 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:37.919 want to interview you. I want to interview you, and 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:39.720 I want to interview with Irving, and I want to 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:41.480 interview the crew, and I want to do a story 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:43.600 about what it takes bring the Eagles to Atlanta. Because 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:45.159 I was thinking, Okay, I'll get out there. I'll get 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:47.320 on the road shoulders, maybe don fell to Will walked 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:49.280 by it out of the cope machine and ask him 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:51.920 three questions and I'll string together a story. So he 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:54.879 just okay, you can come meet us in whatever with Durham, 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:57.679 North Carolina. I said, okay, So I get the photographer, 0:19:57.760 --> 0:19:59.680 Me and Rick Diamond, the photographer. We go. We drive 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:01.240 out there in our car. We go to we go 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:03.159 see the Eagles. You know, We're talking to Irving and 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.520 talking to Larry, and I'm hanging around and I'm trying 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:08.280 to talk to Felder. Irvings is exactly what I'm doing. 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:11.800 He says, hey, listen, I see what you're doing. He says, okay, yeah, 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:14.399 I like you guys. I'll tell you what if you 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:19.760 let Henley approve his quotes that he says to you, 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:22.159 you can interview the Eagles. I said, well, is this 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:24.840 a breaking journalistic No, it's not really it. I'm just 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:28.159 gonna let him, you know, the fact check his quotes. Okay, 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:31.640 I said, okay, so everything. Lets me into the Eagles, 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:34.720 I I. He says, you come to the three E party. 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:36.880 It gives me. It gives me a three E pen. 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:41.639 I go to this party. It's nineteent nine. It's in 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:44.600 the top of a hotel suite. It looks like Playboy 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:48.919 After Dark. I'm like, man, this is cool. UM twenty 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:52.960 two and so I you know, and iView Henley Irving 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:55.199 sits there middle of the interview and he says, you 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:57.600 know what, I like this guy now. I like the 0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:00.719 Eagles and seven. I mean, I love this Rotto, I think. 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:03.080 And I was there from the beginning. I'm a huge 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.240 Eagan even though it was unpopular. I don't know, it's 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:08.960 kind of like, uh so many other racks were. It's 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:12.399 turning around. Yeah. But you know when you listen to 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:17.399 even the architecture of sound of Desperado, and you listen 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:19.840 to the reprieve of the duel and dal and Repres, 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:24.000 and you hear the banjo and you hear the room sound, 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:27.560 and you realize what they created. I mean, it's really 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:31.720 brilliant and So for me talking to Don about that stuff, 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:35.719 I wasn't as interested in this petticultural war between New 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:38.000 York and l A was going on. I was interested in, 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:40.439 you know, the ideas behind the songs and not so 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:42.720 much the lifestyle. And I think Don responded to that, 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:45.600 and that's eventually how we became friends. But they came 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:50.720 to Atlanta. They liked the story. And I was standing backstage, 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:55.800 uh during the encore with Irving and I said, you know, 0:21:56.440 --> 0:22:01.320 you guys don't have tour books. You should really have 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:04.400 a tour book, and you should take me and Rick 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:06.280 on the road with you, and Rick can take the 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:10.119 pictures and I can write the copy. And Irving said, 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:11.919 that's a good idea. Get get it. You see that 0:22:11.960 --> 0:22:14.160 car over they're just getting that car. I go, okay, 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:15.679 So me and Rick we get in the car and 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:17.760 the next thing I know, there's twelve cars and we're 0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:19.760 pulling out of the Omni and we're at an airport 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:22.720 and Irving says, get on that plane. I said, my 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:24.399 car is at the Omni. What do I do? You say, 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:26.520 don't worry, we know the Omni. Next thing I know, 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:31.240 I'm in I'm in Cleveland. Rick and I have no luggage, 0:22:31.600 --> 0:22:34.680 only the clothes we're wearing. And we were on the 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:38.440 road at the Eagles, and Rick eventually took the pictures 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:40.760 and I wrote the copy which Psalters edited and it 0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:43.160 turned into nothing, but you know, they did the tour 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:46.760 book and and you know, that was the beginning of 0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:51.119 my friendship and relationship with Larry and Irving. And ultimately 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:55.080 they did introduce me to you know, Yawn Winner and 0:22:55.080 --> 0:22:57.639 and I eventually became a writer for Rolling Stone and 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:01.640 for Billboard and for People and really, you know, they 0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:04.800 they like gave me the imper mater, like this guy's cool. 0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:07.600 You can you can talk to him, and he's not gonna, 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:11.399 you know, jerk you around for sensationalism. So you know 0:23:11.480 --> 0:23:13.119 that was just that. Okay, So how do you make 0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:19.240 the transition from writer to business person? Awkwardly? Um? I 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:23.960 So Salters had a job at frontline and his job 0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:27.639 was the frontline, was the management, front line manager. He was, 0:23:28.040 --> 0:23:31.840 you know, even though Cameron Crow very astutely in an 0:23:31.920 --> 0:23:34.879 article referred to Larry as vice president in charge of 0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:39.359 whatever Irving tells him to do, he actually was, you know, 0:23:39.400 --> 0:23:43.760 the head of the album covers and publicity. And you know, 0:23:43.760 --> 0:23:46.439 it was a junior manager. And so when when Irving 0:23:46.480 --> 0:23:49.880 went to run m c A Records in n two 0:23:51.000 --> 0:23:54.480 maybe two or three, Larry went with him, and they 0:23:54.480 --> 0:23:57.679 were looking for someone who could take Larry's place. And 0:23:57.760 --> 0:24:00.440 now I had interviewed all of the fiance and the 0:24:00.480 --> 0:24:02.400 main thing was I think Henley, Yeah, he liked me, 0:24:02.480 --> 0:24:05.840 and and I had it. You know, they were trying 0:24:05.880 --> 0:24:08.119 to find somebody I guess that they could trust. And 0:24:08.720 --> 0:24:13.560 Michael Rosenfeld and Howard Kaufman, uh, I had known, and 0:24:13.680 --> 0:24:15.240 they said, and I was going to try to move 0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:18.600 to California because my girlfriend at the time was going 0:24:18.640 --> 0:24:20.840 to be a doctor and she was going to do 0:24:20.920 --> 0:24:23.280 her residency at Kaiser Permanente and I didn't want to 0:24:23.280 --> 0:24:25.560 lose her, right which this was, you know, one of 0:24:25.600 --> 0:24:31.000 the one of the few times I chose love over business. Um. 0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:34.119 And I was leaving journalist because I actually I didn't 0:24:34.119 --> 0:24:35.600 think I was any good to be honest. I mean 0:24:35.640 --> 0:24:39.720 I wasn't going to be you know, like David Frick 0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:43.560 or Charles m. Young or Hunter Thompson, any the guys 0:24:43.560 --> 0:24:45.600 that I felt were great, you know, or Tom Wolfe, 0:24:45.600 --> 0:24:47.800 the great Cholis you know, so I said that I 0:24:47.840 --> 0:24:51.680 should really get out of this, and so I got 0:24:51.760 --> 0:24:56.240 this job with with Frontline Management, doing Larry's job, and 0:24:56.400 --> 0:24:59.440 so it was you do, You're gonna be in charge 0:24:59.480 --> 0:25:01.639 of publicet and you're going to be in charge of 0:25:02.040 --> 0:25:05.640 album covers and there's a new thing called MTV starting 0:25:05.680 --> 0:25:09.240 and you you know you can do that because that's 0:25:09.240 --> 0:25:12.679 all Larry did. And and so you know, my my 0:25:12.800 --> 0:25:17.600 transition to businessman is really around two things. One is 0:25:18.320 --> 0:25:21.159 I'm gonna make videos. And the first one of the 0:25:21.200 --> 0:25:27.200 first videos I make is with Henley and I had 0:25:27.280 --> 0:25:30.320 seen this French There was a French artist named Exel 0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:33.520 Bauer and there was a song called Cargo. And I 0:25:33.560 --> 0:25:36.200 saw this video because a friend of mine, Gayle Sparrow, 0:25:36.240 --> 0:25:38.239 who actually worked at MTV, sent to mysues to work 0:25:38.240 --> 0:25:40.480 for Epic Records, and and I started to Don and 0:25:40.520 --> 0:25:43.320 I said, hey, don you know this guy, this this 0:25:43.320 --> 0:25:45.960 this thing looks really cool. Maybe we should give him 0:25:46.200 --> 0:25:48.359 boys a summer and like do something with this guy. 0:25:49.119 --> 0:25:52.560 Looks like the Twilight Zone. It's cool. And he said, okay, 0:25:52.560 --> 0:25:54.320 we'll send it to him. So I sent it to Mendino, 0:25:54.400 --> 0:25:58.320 and Mendino, you know, love the song and he did 0:25:58.359 --> 0:26:00.280 the video and don one video at the year that 0:26:00.359 --> 0:26:02.480 year from that video, and then I became the manager. 0:26:02.640 --> 0:26:05.199 So that was one pivotal moment for me. And from 0:26:05.280 --> 0:26:08.960 the eighty three to about eighty five, UM, I mean 0:26:09.000 --> 0:26:11.680 that was my job. Really. I was like the young 0:26:11.880 --> 0:26:15.959 creative guy with the head fullest crazy ideas about photography 0:26:16.000 --> 0:26:19.399 and things to do, and you know, and so I 0:26:19.440 --> 0:26:21.600 think these guys who were ten years older than me 0:26:22.160 --> 0:26:26.480 and sort of looking to I don't know, get input 0:26:26.520 --> 0:26:29.919 from somebody other than an older businessman, which Howard was 0:26:30.000 --> 0:26:32.479 one of the best. Learned everything from him. And so 0:26:32.600 --> 0:26:35.480 that was, you know, the nature of my business thing. 0:26:35.960 --> 0:26:38.959 The other thing that happened in the very first meeting 0:26:39.320 --> 0:26:42.880 at Frontline Management when I got there, Howard went through 0:26:42.880 --> 0:26:46.720 the client list and there was Henley and Steely, Dan 0:26:47.280 --> 0:26:51.000 and the go goes and boss gags and Jim and 0:26:51.080 --> 0:26:53.359 Jimmy Buffett and they got to the last name on 0:26:53.400 --> 0:26:55.320 the list and it was Warren Zevon and Howard said 0:26:56.240 --> 0:26:58.919 Warren Zevon, Okay, well, let's see, are eighty thousand dollars 0:26:58.920 --> 0:27:02.880 in debt to the I R S. He's living in Philadelphia, 0:27:02.920 --> 0:27:04.560 he's a drunk. He has no recordly, he doesn't want 0:27:04.560 --> 0:27:06.159 to work. He's off the roster. And I stand up 0:27:06.160 --> 0:27:08.080 and I go, but Howard, he's the best writer we 0:27:08.119 --> 0:27:11.359 have on on the roster. And he goes Slater, he's 0:27:11.400 --> 0:27:13.000 a hundred and eighty thousand dollars in death to the 0:27:13.000 --> 0:27:15.200 I R S. Not the bank. They're gonna come after him. 0:27:15.240 --> 0:27:17.440 He's a drunk, he's living in Philadelphia, doesn't want to work. 0:27:17.400 --> 0:27:20.280 He's off the roster. And I say, but artists love him, 0:27:20.320 --> 0:27:23.359 and maybe other people will come here. He goes, listen, 0:27:23.440 --> 0:27:25.119 you've been here five minutes. I'll tell you what you 0:27:25.160 --> 0:27:28.639 manage them? Okay, next subject? Oh great, I get the 0:27:28.680 --> 0:27:31.600 client list like, go to my little office. Dial a 0:27:31.640 --> 0:27:35.840 phone like, Hi, Warren's Andy Slay your new manager fulne management. Click, 0:27:36.119 --> 0:27:38.640 hangs up. Man like, well that's weird. Okay, call back, 0:27:38.800 --> 0:27:41.600 get some answering machine leaving message. Later your new manager 0:27:41.560 --> 0:27:43.720 filily management. He like, talked about your career. Call me 0:27:43.760 --> 0:27:48.119 back nothing, okay, Wait two days call back answering machine, 0:27:48.200 --> 0:27:51.199 leave another message okay. Finally a week later, get him 0:27:51.240 --> 0:27:54.479 on the phone. He goes, hey, listen, I was at 0:27:54.480 --> 0:27:57.000 the dentist today and I don't really think I can 0:27:57.119 --> 0:28:01.600 talk to you, so just wants you call me Thursday. 0:28:01.720 --> 0:28:06.920 I'm like, okay, one quite Thursday. Okay, Thursday comes, don't 0:28:06.920 --> 0:28:09.280 get him on the phone. So I think, you know what, 0:28:09.320 --> 0:28:12.159 I'm gonna call Peter buck Okay, I called Peter Buck up. 0:28:12.160 --> 0:28:14.920 I go, hey, Peter H. Tandy, how are you doing. 0:28:15.359 --> 0:28:18.399 I'm managing Warren's Eiland. He goes, you're managing what? Your manager? 0:28:18.440 --> 0:28:20.399 He was just a journalist three weeks ago as well, 0:28:20.440 --> 0:28:25.240 you know what? So I say, hey, you know, if 0:28:25.280 --> 0:28:27.320 Warren has some songs, maybe you guys would do a 0:28:27.320 --> 0:28:30.160 demo with him and we can get him a record deal. Now, 0:28:30.200 --> 0:28:32.160 at that time, Aria and I think had made Murmurs 0:28:32.160 --> 0:28:34.480 just one record, so that they were cool and just 0:28:34.560 --> 0:28:37.359 starting out. And he said, oh man, yeah, remember how 0:28:37.359 --> 0:28:39.840 he used to listen to Excitable Boy with it? He said, yeah, no, 0:28:40.160 --> 0:28:41.600 I'll pick him up at the air, but we'll bring 0:28:41.680 --> 0:28:44.160 him to Athens. Will we'll make a tape of them. Okay, great. 0:28:44.760 --> 0:28:48.120 So then I call Gary Gersh who was at e 0:28:48.280 --> 0:28:51.280 m I. He didn't want to do that. And then 0:28:51.320 --> 0:28:54.080 I called Michael Austin, who just started working for his father, 0:28:55.360 --> 0:28:57.000 had Warner Brothers and I and I had, you know, 0:28:57.040 --> 0:29:01.640 he and I had we had met in Atlanta with Irving. 0:29:01.680 --> 0:29:04.000 I think he was he signed a band called Riggs. Anyway, 0:29:04.000 --> 0:29:07.320 I called Michael and I said, look, managing Warren's Evan, 0:29:07.560 --> 0:29:09.440 will you give me some money for a demo? There's 0:29:09.440 --> 0:29:11.360 this band R E M. They're cool. It could make 0:29:11.360 --> 0:29:13.160 He says, yeah, yeah, I'll give you five grandmother, send 0:29:13.160 --> 0:29:17.080 you the paper. Call walking. Next phone call warrant. I 0:29:17.120 --> 0:29:18.880 wanted to say, a new manager from Image. How you doing. 0:29:18.880 --> 0:29:21.080 He goes, I'm doing great. I go, you got Do 0:29:21.080 --> 0:29:23.160 you have any songs? Because of course I got songs, kid, 0:29:23.200 --> 0:29:26.000 What are you talking about. I'm a songwriter, like okay, okay, 0:29:26.120 --> 0:29:27.920 because I got this five grand for you to make it. 0:29:28.440 --> 0:29:30.440 You've got five grand. I need that money, give me that. 0:29:30.480 --> 0:29:31.760 I said, No, I can't give you the money, but 0:29:31.840 --> 0:29:34.080 maybe we can make a demo. There's this band in Atlanta. 0:29:34.160 --> 0:29:36.560 They're really cool. They're you know, they're R E M. 0:29:36.640 --> 0:29:38.920 And they're making their first record. You know, when you 0:29:38.920 --> 0:29:41.920 come down to Atlanta, maybe with them and make a demo. 0:29:42.000 --> 0:29:46.440 And he goes, fly me first class. I go, yeah, 0:29:46.640 --> 0:29:56.080 we'll fly first class, five first class. Peter I called Peter. 0:29:56.120 --> 0:29:58.720 Peter picks him up the airport takes him out to Athens. 0:29:59.040 --> 0:30:01.120 Two days later, I call Peter. I go, hey, man, 0:30:01.120 --> 0:30:04.640 how's it going. He goes, well, you know, the songs 0:30:04.680 --> 0:30:07.960 are good. But Warren he teaches us the songs and 0:30:07.960 --> 0:30:10.400 then he kind of takes a nap. And I'm like, 0:30:10.520 --> 0:30:12.640 what were you guys working? Like really late? Three him no, 0:30:12.880 --> 0:30:14.960 like three in the afternoon. I go, oh, he must 0:30:15.000 --> 0:30:18.000 be drinking. He goes, well, I don't know, It'll be fine, 0:30:18.000 --> 0:30:20.160 don't worry, it's I said, okay, man. He goes, tell 0:30:20.160 --> 0:30:21.680 you what, We're gonna do a show at the forty 0:30:21.680 --> 0:30:23.880 Water Club this weekend. You should come down. I was like, 0:30:23.920 --> 0:30:27.680 oh great, okay. So I got my little haircut, my 0:30:27.680 --> 0:30:30.520 little jacket, little tie. I'm now manager, you know. Go 0:30:30.640 --> 0:30:35.200 down Athens. Go down to Athens, talk into the dressing room. 0:30:35.200 --> 0:30:38.120 Before the show. Warren's in the corner. He sees me 0:30:38.720 --> 0:30:41.520 and he walks away. I'm like, oh, that's weird. Maybe 0:30:41.520 --> 0:30:43.680 it's pretty show Jeter. Maybe I'm not gonna maybe I 0:30:43.720 --> 0:30:45.720 won't bother him. So they play the show and it's 0:30:45.720 --> 0:30:48.120 all great. After the show, I see him in a 0:30:48.200 --> 0:30:49.840 dressing me and I walked towards him, and he walks 0:30:49.840 --> 0:30:51.960 out of the room and I'm like, that's this guy's 0:30:52.000 --> 0:30:54.840 definitely really avoiding me. So I'm standing in the dressing 0:30:54.880 --> 0:30:58.520 room and somebody point pats me on the back and says, hey, hey, Slayer, 0:30:58.560 --> 0:31:00.640 you're back in Georgia. What do you do? And all 0:31:00.640 --> 0:31:02.840 of a sudden, I feel these two arms grabbed me 0:31:02.880 --> 0:31:05.040 and turned me around. He goes, that's who you are. 0:31:05.640 --> 0:31:06.720 He thought it was from the I R S. I 0:31:06.800 --> 0:31:10.520 thought I was coming after his sign because I looked like, 0:31:11.120 --> 0:31:14.760 you know, a complete nerd. But that led to my 0:31:15.160 --> 0:31:18.520 you know, relationship with Warren, which was really you know, 0:31:18.560 --> 0:31:21.080 one of the great the great things in my in 0:31:21.160 --> 0:31:25.719 my working career. And eventually, you know, I got him 0:31:25.760 --> 0:31:29.239 out of Philadelphia. Why was he in Philadelphia, Well, he 0:31:29.280 --> 0:31:32.040 had fallen in love with the DJ name Anita, and 0:31:32.080 --> 0:31:34.719 I think she was the inspiration for the song Reconsider Me. 0:31:35.400 --> 0:31:40.160 But uh, I managed to get him an apartment at 0:31:40.160 --> 0:31:44.640 the Oakwood Gardens Apartments. I was making forty dollars a 0:31:44.760 --> 0:31:47.920 year and he was in debt to the I R S. 0:31:48.000 --> 0:31:50.880 And he will you know, he had other issue, other 0:31:50.960 --> 0:31:53.840 financial issues, and but I signed in this department, and 0:31:53.960 --> 0:31:57.239 I would get these calls from the norther was on. 0:31:57.360 --> 0:32:01.080 It was on bar I'm Mountain exactly, so you know, 0:32:01.200 --> 0:32:03.640 it was where I was like a transient kind of 0:32:03.640 --> 0:32:07.760 place where actors were auditioning for something. Came in for 0:32:07.800 --> 0:32:10.680 two days. Anyway, I got him an apartment there, and 0:32:10.760 --> 0:32:14.240 all kinds of shenanigans were going on. He was shooting 0:32:14.240 --> 0:32:16.880 the gun off in the department like a crazy stuff, 0:32:17.160 --> 0:32:21.640 and you know, but eventually I realized I had to 0:32:21.680 --> 0:32:27.360 get him a car. And you know, there was the 0:32:28.680 --> 0:32:33.960 frontline management was in the Atlas Leasing building and somehow 0:32:34.000 --> 0:32:38.200 I managed to convince the daughter of the owner of 0:32:38.240 --> 0:32:43.240 the Atlas Leasing company to get Warren a corvette. Oh god, 0:32:43.360 --> 0:32:45.400 so Warren had a great court. I got Warren a 0:32:45.480 --> 0:32:48.840 great corvette, and you know, he had his apartment and 0:32:48.880 --> 0:32:51.280 I kept giving him money and he was playing me 0:32:51.320 --> 0:32:53.880 these songs and they were amazing, and I worshiped the guy. 0:32:53.920 --> 0:32:57.760 I mean, he was you know, Warren Warren was really 0:32:58.800 --> 0:33:03.360 the writer's right or he was like the He was 0:33:03.440 --> 0:33:06.760 like the low Archer or the Philip Marlowe to me 0:33:07.040 --> 0:33:10.520 of the l A scene, and uh, you know, and 0:33:11.280 --> 0:33:13.479 probably to to a lot of those guys to you know, 0:33:13.600 --> 0:33:16.640 to Don Henley and the JD. Souther and obviously to 0:33:16.720 --> 0:33:19.480 Linda Ronstadt. They had tremendous respect for him as a wrinter. 0:33:19.560 --> 0:33:21.400 You know, all of his songs that there was never 0:33:21.560 --> 0:33:23.760 a wasted word in one of those songs. You know. 0:33:23.800 --> 0:33:27.040 He used to say, he said, you know, when I 0:33:27.080 --> 0:33:29.560 go for the when Henley goes for the high note, 0:33:29.560 --> 0:33:31.080 they give him the Grammy. When I go for the 0:33:31.120 --> 0:33:37.480 high note, they give me the heimlich Maneuver. But eventually, 0:33:38.160 --> 0:33:41.440 you know, I got him a record deal and eventually 0:33:42.000 --> 0:33:46.600 helped him get sober. I mean I get him sober. Well, 0:33:46.640 --> 0:33:50.040 I mean he these he came with all these kind 0:33:50.080 --> 0:33:54.560 of crazy ideas he'd have, Like, you know, he had 0:33:54.600 --> 0:33:56.720 a polaroid camera that he decided he was going to 0:33:56.800 --> 0:33:59.800 take a polaroid of all of his prescription drugs. So 0:34:00.000 --> 0:34:02.360 when the cops stopped me, just whip out the polaroid. 0:34:02.400 --> 0:34:04.480 When he was loaded and couldn't walk the line, he 0:34:04.600 --> 0:34:06.840 just said, look, I got the thing, you know, But 0:34:06.880 --> 0:34:09.960 there was all these this stuff. Eventually, I think that's 0:34:10.000 --> 0:34:12.799 something that you know, he came to himself, and I 0:34:12.880 --> 0:34:14.920 was just trying to find a place to to to 0:34:15.000 --> 0:34:17.520 get him to that. Would you know, he would embrace 0:34:17.600 --> 0:34:20.160 the idea of being sober. And I just remember driving 0:34:20.200 --> 0:34:23.279 him around to these rehabs and and he would you know, 0:34:24.239 --> 0:34:27.920 I remember sitting in one rehab with him, you know, 0:34:28.160 --> 0:34:30.680 near Fox Studios, and I forget the name of the place. 0:34:30.719 --> 0:34:32.640 And you know, we were sitting there in the in 0:34:32.719 --> 0:34:35.960 the reception room, in the intake thing, and there was 0:34:36.280 --> 0:34:39.680 some guy in the room and he looked over. The 0:34:39.719 --> 0:34:41.960 guy looked over at Warren and me, and he said, 0:34:42.480 --> 0:34:47.000 I drank the lie. I drank the lie. And Warren 0:34:47.000 --> 0:34:48.960 looked at me and he said, let's get out of here. 0:34:50.000 --> 0:34:52.640 I'm not going in this place with these cucka boos, 0:34:53.360 --> 0:34:57.880 you know. But eventually, eventually he got sober, and you know, 0:34:58.000 --> 0:35:01.399 through his sobriety eight things happened as that they do 0:35:01.560 --> 0:35:03.520 for people who okay, So while you were there, he 0:35:03.520 --> 0:35:08.000 started off eighty granted debt. Did you ever make any money? 0:35:08.080 --> 0:35:10.359 Did Frontline? Did ever turn around? So they made money? Well, 0:35:10.400 --> 0:35:12.239 I will tell you something. And this is the great 0:35:12.280 --> 0:35:15.759 thing about Howard Kaufman, who I miss every day. You know, 0:35:15.840 --> 0:35:19.239 Howard said to me, you got this guy back on 0:35:19.360 --> 0:35:23.600 his feet, and you keep all the money for the commissions. 0:35:24.680 --> 0:35:29.040 And you know, I mean people don't know what kind 0:35:29.080 --> 0:35:30.560 of guy that guy was. You know, he was a 0:35:30.640 --> 0:35:32.480 very tough businessman. I mean, you know, I think if 0:35:32.480 --> 0:35:35.759 you're a promoter, you probably you know, had had a 0:35:35.800 --> 0:35:38.919 lot of issues with you know, with how he how 0:35:39.000 --> 0:35:41.479 he extracted money from you. But you know, he fought 0:35:41.520 --> 0:35:44.319 first clients, and he taught me so many things. Man. 0:35:44.320 --> 0:35:46.600 He taught the first thing you know, he taught me 0:35:46.600 --> 0:35:48.480 he said, your word has to be good, because if 0:35:48.520 --> 0:35:51.160 you tell a guy that he's got something, that's it. 0:35:51.520 --> 0:35:54.440 And I never really had any contract with Howard any papers, 0:35:54.440 --> 0:35:56.319 and you know, and and all of our partnerships, whether 0:35:56.360 --> 0:35:59.000 we worked on Don Henley or the Beastie Boys, whatever, 0:35:59.160 --> 0:36:01.799 whenever he said this is the deal, that was a deal. 0:36:01.840 --> 0:36:04.480 And you know that's not always the case in the 0:36:04.560 --> 0:36:07.000 music industry, as you and I know, it's so so 0:36:07.120 --> 0:36:11.640 Howard was really really a huge influence, uh for me, 0:36:11.760 --> 0:36:15.120 and uh and I miss him. But but but but Warren, 0:36:15.239 --> 0:36:17.640 you know, but Warren didn't make money. And Warren did 0:36:17.640 --> 0:36:21.160 get out of debt, and Warren did all the things 0:36:21.200 --> 0:36:23.719 that you know people do when they get sober cleaned up, 0:36:23.760 --> 0:36:26.960 all the Wreckage and and had and had a great 0:36:26.960 --> 0:36:29.560 you know, second run of his of his career, and 0:36:29.560 --> 0:36:32.400 and we we made a record with R. E. M. 0:36:33.440 --> 0:36:39.400 For a Virgin called Sentimental Hygiene. And I I was 0:36:39.440 --> 0:36:41.520 a producer that record, but when I was working on it, 0:36:41.840 --> 0:36:44.000 I didn't know I was a producer. You know, I 0:36:44.040 --> 0:36:47.160 had played music with Peter Buck and we so I 0:36:47.480 --> 0:36:50.759 knew like when a song was too fast, or the 0:36:50.880 --> 0:36:53.960 key might have been wrong, or maybe there was too 0:36:53.960 --> 0:36:57.200 many bars in the turnaround between the first chorus and 0:36:57.239 --> 0:36:59.440 the second verse, you know, things like that. And I 0:36:59.480 --> 0:37:02.200 was just saying, hey, this sounds fast, Hey, this sounds 0:37:02.200 --> 0:37:03.560 So I was in the studio all the time because 0:37:03.600 --> 0:37:06.680 they were my friends, and I was saying to Warren, 0:37:06.680 --> 0:37:07.960 I think he was going to do a song called 0:37:07.960 --> 0:37:11.439 Boom Boo Mancini. And I said, Warren, you know, it's 0:37:11.480 --> 0:37:14.000 really it seems like it's a piano song. It's not, 0:37:14.080 --> 0:37:16.759 you know. And so I was saying these things. And 0:37:16.800 --> 0:37:19.319 at the end of the record, you know, as we 0:37:19.360 --> 0:37:22.320 went down to the mix, you know, the engineer Nico 0:37:22.440 --> 0:37:24.560 Bolos said to me, you know you're producing this record. 0:37:24.640 --> 0:37:27.600 I said, this is what producing is. He says, yeah, 0:37:28.040 --> 0:37:30.680 and so you know Warren. That was the beginning of 0:37:30.960 --> 0:37:34.000 making three records with Warren and a career of you know, 0:37:34.160 --> 0:37:36.759 working as a record producer. Taking the things that I 0:37:36.760 --> 0:37:39.640 had learned from watching Don Henley make records, and the 0:37:39.719 --> 0:37:42.520 things that I learned from Nico Bolis engineering records and 0:37:42.600 --> 0:37:47.640 Greg Ladonia engineering records, and applying them to the things 0:37:47.760 --> 0:37:49.600 that I thought I heard that I couldn't play, but 0:37:49.640 --> 0:37:52.759 I could find other people to play. Okay, how does 0:37:52.800 --> 0:38:00.360 it end with Warren? Well, it ends in nineteen ninety 0:38:00.480 --> 0:38:06.799 one when I get to a place where I have 0:38:06.920 --> 0:38:09.880 a little traveling problem where I can't really leave my 0:38:10.040 --> 0:38:13.759 room that much. You know, I was well, since you're 0:38:13.800 --> 0:38:17.600 being honest about that, recalling that drugs or agoraphobia. No, 0:38:17.719 --> 0:38:21.640 it's not a goraphobia. I mean, I'm using the metaphor there. 0:38:21.360 --> 0:38:25.600 I I mean, it wasn't really that happy. You know. 0:38:26.600 --> 0:38:31.560 I had gotten to these places where I had tremendous success. 0:38:31.640 --> 0:38:33.920 It seemed like on the outside, you know, I was 0:38:33.960 --> 0:38:37.319 managing these people, I was making this money, but inside, 0:38:37.760 --> 0:38:41.560 you know, there was that just that hole, and I 0:38:41.600 --> 0:38:45.080 couldn't figure out why I wasn't happy, And so I 0:38:45.120 --> 0:38:49.000 was trying to medicate that, to to get the right 0:38:49.560 --> 0:38:52.439 you know, the right feeling. And really what it was 0:38:52.440 --> 0:38:55.880 was I just kind of needed, uh, to be sober 0:38:56.160 --> 0:39:01.560 and to not chase it chemically, to be you know, 0:39:01.680 --> 0:39:05.080 to have a sense of serenity and and and piece 0:39:05.120 --> 0:39:07.920 of myself. And and when I went to do that, 0:39:08.719 --> 0:39:13.240 because I don't think I was the kind of drinker 0:39:13.360 --> 0:39:16.279 or drug user that had the lampshade on your head 0:39:16.320 --> 0:39:17.640 and didn't have it together. You know, I had a 0:39:17.719 --> 0:39:22.160 job and stuff, but inside there was just a yearning 0:39:22.480 --> 0:39:26.840 for the noise in my head to to just get 0:39:26.880 --> 0:39:30.200 to get lower and uh. And I couldn't figure it out. 0:39:30.400 --> 0:39:34.239 And so when I went to rehab, I mean, a 0:39:34.280 --> 0:39:38.479 couple of my friends have gotten sober and uh, and 0:39:38.520 --> 0:39:40.319 I said, you know, maybe this is for me. Maybe 0:39:40.320 --> 0:39:42.640 I should try to do this. And and I went 0:39:42.680 --> 0:39:45.680 to I went to rehab, I went to a place 0:39:46.120 --> 0:39:49.280 in the marina. And when I went to the marina, 0:39:50.920 --> 0:39:53.719 I got a phone call from Warren. You know, I 0:39:53.760 --> 0:39:55.520 said to him, look, man, I gotta I gotta get 0:39:55.520 --> 0:39:57.719 my ship together because it's just not happening for me. 0:39:58.280 --> 0:40:03.600 And when that happened, he said, look, man, you know 0:40:03.719 --> 0:40:06.240 I don't know, if I could really have a manager 0:40:06.280 --> 0:40:12.600 that's newly sober and and I said, okay, and you know, 0:40:12.680 --> 0:40:18.040 and that was it. Well, it's just thinking, do you think, well, 0:40:18.200 --> 0:40:20.640 I also think at the time that there are other 0:40:20.719 --> 0:40:23.799 influences of other people trying to tell him a look, 0:40:23.920 --> 0:40:26.560 you know, come with me. You know, that's just the way. 0:40:27.440 --> 0:40:30.120 You know, but that's just the way it is. Let's 0:40:30.120 --> 0:40:34.200 go back. So what came. So you're saying that once 0:40:34.200 --> 0:40:37.360 you got to rehab, all your problems go away. Well, no, 0:40:37.960 --> 0:40:40.759 what happens when you go to rehab is all the 0:40:41.440 --> 0:40:44.360 bad problem solving things go away. But then your problems 0:40:44.360 --> 0:40:46.279 are there, and so you have to figure out how 0:40:46.280 --> 0:40:50.120 to you know, deal with your emotions, uh in a 0:40:50.239 --> 0:40:53.880 way in reality, and that takes a little bit of time. 0:40:54.200 --> 0:40:59.640 And you know, luckily, the the twelve step program is 0:41:00.160 --> 0:41:04.160 is a really great thing because it it it gives 0:41:04.160 --> 0:41:06.160 you a framework to start looking at things that you 0:41:06.160 --> 0:41:09.640 didn't look at. And if you know, and I was 0:41:09.680 --> 0:41:12.160 super cynical. I mean, I was like, look, I am 0:41:12.239 --> 0:41:14.680 not going to I don't want to be in any club. 0:41:14.800 --> 0:41:16.600 I don't even I didn't want to join a fraternity 0:41:16.680 --> 0:41:21.160 and you know, and you know, in college. But I 0:41:21.320 --> 0:41:23.920 got to this room where there were a lot of 0:41:23.960 --> 0:41:26.759 people of musicians who I respected, and people who were 0:41:26.800 --> 0:41:29.799 talking to me saying, look, man, you know you're a 0:41:29.800 --> 0:41:32.280 cool guy, and this is if you do this, this, 0:41:32.280 --> 0:41:35.960 this is what will happen. And I was like, yeah, right, okay. 0:41:36.040 --> 0:41:37.960 But but they were smart and they were cool, and 0:41:38.000 --> 0:41:41.400 they embraced me, and you know, I I'm forever indebted 0:41:41.440 --> 0:41:45.320 to those guys. Um, you know, and and and it 0:41:45.320 --> 0:41:49.520 it's slowly worked. It doesn't work overnight, but it does. 0:41:49.600 --> 0:41:52.600 But if you if you stay with it, uh, and 0:41:52.840 --> 0:41:56.160 you find your own place in it, you can change 0:41:56.160 --> 0:41:58.279 your life. And you know, they so they tell you 0:41:58.320 --> 0:42:01.840 all these things are gonna happen. I fear financial and 0:42:01.880 --> 0:42:04.279 security is gonna be gone and you're gonna get everything back. 0:42:04.360 --> 0:42:08.040 And you know, so before I got sober, as I said, 0:42:08.080 --> 0:42:10.160 it was the manager of all those artists. And I 0:42:10.200 --> 0:42:12.080 had been a journalist and I had been a creative 0:42:12.080 --> 0:42:15.360 director and a record producer and then it all went away. 0:42:15.520 --> 0:42:18.719 And for four years, not a lot happened, you know. 0:42:18.880 --> 0:42:21.800 I mean I was managing a band that didn't really 0:42:21.840 --> 0:42:25.080 do much and sold forty thousand records and got the 0:42:25.120 --> 0:42:27.680 deal dropped in. I was in a place where where's 0:42:27.719 --> 0:42:30.440 my beautiful reward. I'm doing what they told me to do, 0:42:31.600 --> 0:42:39.200 and you know, and then something very interesting happened. I 0:42:39.200 --> 0:42:42.719 I was always told in a you know, stay out 0:42:42.719 --> 0:42:46.200 of their results. Just do the work. Do the work 0:42:46.239 --> 0:42:50.160 in general and life. You're not in control of the universe. 0:42:50.160 --> 0:42:52.239 There's an order to the universe. Just do the work 0:42:52.280 --> 0:42:54.319 and don't worry about what happens. I was like, what 0:42:54.480 --> 0:42:57.719 is that? Did you have enough money? That's well? I 0:42:57.760 --> 0:42:59.600 mean I had a little money. I mean I had 0:42:59.640 --> 0:43:01.720 a call are that had a rip in the hood 0:43:01.880 --> 0:43:04.279 that I couldn't drive in the rain. And I had 0:43:04.280 --> 0:43:07.239 an apart you know, one of those creepy apartments that 0:43:07.320 --> 0:43:10.520 people have with you know, when they're when they're in 0:43:10.560 --> 0:43:13.200 that situation. I mean, but I was okay. I mean 0:43:13.239 --> 0:43:14.920 I was making it work. You know, you you make 0:43:14.960 --> 0:43:17.279 whatever whatever work. I felt I could live in a 0:43:17.760 --> 0:43:20.239 you know, one room in one room, as long as 0:43:20.280 --> 0:43:22.239 I had music and a guitar and you know, in 0:43:22.320 --> 0:43:28.360 the bed and a TV. But so this this thing happened. 0:43:28.440 --> 0:43:32.640 I Howard, you know. And the great thing about Howard again, 0:43:32.840 --> 0:43:37.959 when I lost everything, Howard said, you have an office here, 0:43:38.160 --> 0:43:40.680 and you'll always have an office here. And when I 0:43:40.719 --> 0:43:44.000 went to rehab what I found out? Howard said, got 0:43:44.040 --> 0:43:48.200 everyone in the office and said, and he went to rehab. 0:43:48.960 --> 0:43:52.200 If I hear any of you tell anyone in the 0:43:52.239 --> 0:43:56.799 business what's happening with him, you're fired. I mean, that's 0:43:56.800 --> 0:43:59.439 the kind of loyalty that guy had anyone. I came out, 0:43:59.480 --> 0:44:01.239 I didn't have a going on, and a lot of 0:44:01.320 --> 0:44:03.480 have a lot going on for for three or four years, 0:44:04.719 --> 0:44:11.319 and then something strange happened. I had become friends with 0:44:12.000 --> 0:44:17.040 a lawyer who was representing the Smashing Pumpkins and they 0:44:17.080 --> 0:44:19.480 were looking for a new manager on Melancholy in the 0:44:19.480 --> 0:44:23.799 Infinite Sentens and Howard and I went to Chicago to 0:44:23.840 --> 0:44:26.960 have a meeting with with Billy and the band. Now 0:44:27.000 --> 0:44:31.160 we go to this meeting and uh, and you know, 0:44:31.239 --> 0:44:36.640 Billy's super smart record like a record guy could have 0:44:36.719 --> 0:44:39.120 been one of the great It wasn't a great artist 0:44:39.360 --> 0:44:42.640 be one of the great record men of of today. 0:44:42.800 --> 0:44:44.640 And we talked a lot about music and the things 0:44:44.640 --> 0:44:47.080 we liked and bands we liked and obscure stuff. And 0:44:47.120 --> 0:44:50.239 Howard talked about the record business, its night and how 0:44:50.280 --> 0:44:51.880 you make money on the road, and you know how 0:44:51.920 --> 0:44:53.759 you make money with T shirts and all the all 0:44:53.800 --> 0:44:57.439 the stuff. He knew better than anybody. And we left 0:44:57.440 --> 0:45:00.719 the meeting and the lawyer said to me, you got it. 0:45:00.880 --> 0:45:03.520 These guys loved you, and I was like, yeah, right, 0:45:04.040 --> 0:45:05.840 is right. I'm back. I'm going to be the co 0:45:06.040 --> 0:45:08.600 manager of the biggest band in the world. This is 0:45:08.640 --> 0:45:13.239 the greatest thing. And two days later she called me 0:45:13.239 --> 0:45:15.279 and she said, well, Andy, look they had one more 0:45:15.280 --> 0:45:18.879 meeting and it was with Cliff Bronstein and they went 0:45:18.920 --> 0:45:21.800 with them, and I was devastated. I mean, that was 0:45:21.920 --> 0:45:24.560 the point where I think all this stuff to tell 0:45:24.600 --> 0:45:28.520 him he's bullshit, Like I'm I'm doing what they tell me. 0:45:28.600 --> 0:45:31.879 I'm living the good life, straight life, and I'm going 0:45:31.920 --> 0:45:33.759 to me and doing all the things I'm supposed to do, 0:45:33.880 --> 0:45:38.480 helping other people. And where's the reward? And you know 0:45:38.600 --> 0:45:40.560 I was saying this. I was in New York at 0:45:40.560 --> 0:45:45.120 the time. It was Christmas, and my girlfriend at the 0:45:45.160 --> 0:45:48.879 time had a friend who had a kid, and then 0:45:49.080 --> 0:45:51.640 she had a babysitter for this kid. And the babysitter 0:45:52.400 --> 0:45:56.359 I knew somebody who had made a cassette of three songs, 0:45:56.360 --> 0:45:58.799 so the babysitter gave it to my girlfriend's friend who 0:45:58.840 --> 0:46:01.520 was in the music business, and she said, look to 0:46:01.600 --> 0:46:04.719 my girlfriend, I know he's really bummed out. I don't 0:46:04.719 --> 0:46:06.520 know I got this tape. I don't know what this is, 0:46:06.560 --> 0:46:08.920 but maybe he can do something with this. That's a tape. 0:46:08.920 --> 0:46:12.560 It's something. I put the tech cassette tape on and 0:46:12.600 --> 0:46:15.040 there were three songs on it, and the girl's voice 0:46:15.120 --> 0:46:20.880 was other worldly. And that girl was Fiona Apple. Now what? 0:46:21.880 --> 0:46:24.040 And so I went on, of course, to to meet 0:46:24.080 --> 0:46:27.520 her and to produce her first record, and and and 0:46:27.680 --> 0:46:29.160 you know, we know what happened there. She went on 0:46:29.239 --> 0:46:31.640 to sell four million records. But the point of the 0:46:31.640 --> 0:46:36.640 story is if I had gotten what I wanted and 0:46:36.719 --> 0:46:38.880 what I thought, which was to be a manager and 0:46:38.920 --> 0:46:41.360 to manage the Smashing Pumpkins, I would have probably taken 0:46:41.360 --> 0:46:44.360 that tape and thrown it, you know, to the side 0:46:44.440 --> 0:46:46.040 or something, or just not at any time to do 0:46:46.080 --> 0:46:48.960 anything with it. But because I produced that record, and 0:46:49.000 --> 0:46:50.360 then when I went on and I went on to 0:46:50.440 --> 0:46:56.240 produce the Macy Gray record, being a producer and selling 0:46:56.520 --> 0:46:59.280 between those two records twelve million records and a manager 0:47:00.160 --> 0:47:03.480 me to the opportunity to run capitol records. And so 0:47:03.920 --> 0:47:06.720 what it teaches you is that do the work. Maybe 0:47:06.920 --> 0:47:08.680 it's not that's not the way it's supposed to work out. 0:47:08.719 --> 0:47:10.640 So if you get bummed out and you think, you know, 0:47:10.760 --> 0:47:12.839 I should have gotten that, maybe there's something else down 0:47:12.840 --> 0:47:15.080 the road for you. And you know, that's the way 0:47:15.120 --> 0:47:17.759 you have to live your life, because you know, if 0:47:17.800 --> 0:47:21.799 you if you if you live in regret and you 0:47:22.080 --> 0:47:25.400 live in the what if, so you will never get anywhere. Okay, 0:47:25.520 --> 0:47:27.520 three questions. What happened to the girl who was going 0:47:27.560 --> 0:47:33.200 to become a doctor? The girl who was going to 0:47:33.280 --> 0:47:38.839 become a doctor? Well, this is what happened. One night 0:47:39.000 --> 0:47:41.600 I came home from being on the road and I 0:47:41.840 --> 0:47:46.680 found a parking ticket in my card five in the 0:47:46.719 --> 0:47:49.600 morning at some address in Pasadena. I was like, Hey, 0:47:49.640 --> 0:47:52.560 what is that? When? When? What is there? Probably with 0:47:52.640 --> 0:47:56.959 five in the morning. Anyway, it was at some guy's house, 0:47:57.239 --> 0:48:00.760 and you know, um and he was a doctor. And 0:48:01.640 --> 0:48:05.879 she eventually married the doctor, but it had two kids 0:48:05.880 --> 0:48:08.040 as divorced. And and by the way, I she was 0:48:08.040 --> 0:48:11.200 my high school sweetheart and I and I love her 0:48:11.280 --> 0:48:14.200 and owe her a lot for for not not the 0:48:14.320 --> 0:48:18.520 least of which is you know, helping me get seven 0:48:18.560 --> 0:48:23.359 hundred on my English achievement test. Anyway, Okay, so how 0:48:23.360 --> 0:48:28.200 did it end with managing Henley? Well, you know, I 0:48:28.200 --> 0:48:33.960 I think again it ran its course. Um, maybe a 0:48:34.000 --> 0:48:40.160 couple of things. Uh. I wasn't that together at that point. 0:48:40.200 --> 0:48:42.600 It was at the point where I was sort of unhappy. 0:48:42.800 --> 0:48:48.319 And I also think that, you know, as I was 0:48:48.360 --> 0:48:53.120 managing Lenny Kravitz and Lenny Kravitz had a number two 0:48:53.480 --> 0:48:58.719 hit record with it Ain't over till It's over. You know, 0:48:58.760 --> 0:49:01.960 I don't think I was together enough to manage both 0:49:02.000 --> 0:49:04.520 of those things myself, and I was spending more time 0:49:04.560 --> 0:49:10.840 with Lenny, and you know, I think that also Irving 0:49:11.320 --> 0:49:14.000 was coming back from being a record executive and he 0:49:14.080 --> 0:49:17.040 was coming back to management and looked on with his 0:49:17.120 --> 0:49:20.239 client and you know, his longtime client, and and you know, 0:49:20.400 --> 0:49:26.360 he had every right, I think, to you know, rekindle 0:49:26.440 --> 0:49:29.080 his relationship with him, or continue with the relationship that 0:49:29.120 --> 0:49:31.319 he had with him, and put the Eagles back together, 0:49:31.440 --> 0:49:33.440 whatever he wanted to do. And I just think that that, 0:49:33.920 --> 0:49:37.200 along with my not paying attention and also my not 0:49:37.280 --> 0:49:40.840 being that together, probably you know, led to you know, 0:49:40.920 --> 0:49:44.560 to to our you know, working relationship. Okay, and then 0:49:44.600 --> 0:49:47.040 you we started this with the band who formed in 0:49:48.880 --> 0:49:51.840 so what was that that was? After you got sober? 0:49:52.080 --> 0:49:54.279 After I got sober, there was nothing going on. I 0:49:54.360 --> 0:49:59.960 was playing at the Kivets Room in by the way 0:50:00.000 --> 0:50:03.359 two and three. It was happening right there was, I mean, 0:50:03.640 --> 0:50:06.200 Joni Mitchell was there at one top point and and 0:50:06.320 --> 0:50:10.680 I remember playing on a Sunday night with these three 0:50:10.680 --> 0:50:12.520 guys and we were playing down by the river and 0:50:12.560 --> 0:50:14.879 there were five guys in the in the room and 0:50:14.920 --> 0:50:18.319 one of them was Rick James. And Rick, you know, 0:50:18.480 --> 0:50:20.840 saw us playing down by the river and had his 0:50:21.320 --> 0:50:23.719 like one year old baby in his arms. And I 0:50:23.920 --> 0:50:25.719 could which I couldn't believe. You know, we got up 0:50:25.760 --> 0:50:27.800 on stage and he sang down by the river with 0:50:27.920 --> 0:50:29.000 I think he was in a band with nearly on 0:50:29.120 --> 0:50:31.440 and so you know he was sort of smiling. And 0:50:31.680 --> 0:50:33.520 but that's the kind of stuff that was, you know, 0:50:33.560 --> 0:50:35.920 going on. And Mike Myers came once and you know, 0:50:36.000 --> 0:50:38.920 people were I think Rolling Stone wrote an article on 0:50:38.960 --> 0:50:41.040 like the cover of the music section. They called it 0:50:41.200 --> 0:50:44.880 the Last Schmaltz, you know, the sort of rock on 0:50:45.040 --> 0:50:47.000 Rye and and and all the bands that were playing 0:50:47.040 --> 0:50:48.880 there with the Chili Peppers came there. It was like 0:50:48.880 --> 0:50:51.160 a whole scene, you know, in affects it. But what 0:50:51.239 --> 0:50:54.200 happened to me? So I was playing with these guys 0:50:54.200 --> 0:50:56.520 and we were doing a bunch of Neil Young songs, 0:50:57.000 --> 0:50:59.520 and all of a sudden, you know, room was crowded, 0:50:59.560 --> 0:51:02.160 there was girls, it was it was happening. And this 0:51:02.360 --> 0:51:04.120 guy jumps up on the stage and it grabs a 0:51:04.200 --> 0:51:10.040 mic and and he starts singing, and he sounds exactly 0:51:10.120 --> 0:51:12.799 like Neil. I mean, he's got it down. So we 0:51:12.880 --> 0:51:15.040 play a couple of songs and and it's like and 0:51:15.040 --> 0:51:16.919 then he just runs off the stage and I put 0:51:16.920 --> 0:51:19.040 my guitar down and I chased after and said, hey man, 0:51:19.040 --> 0:51:21.399 who whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, where'd you come from? What's 0:51:21.400 --> 0:51:23.680 going on? He goes, I sell Deli meat to the 0:51:23.719 --> 0:51:26.520 Canaderas I heard you guys playing, I'm like, oh my god. 0:51:26.840 --> 0:51:31.360 So so his name was Gary Williams. And so Gary, 0:51:31.480 --> 0:51:34.359 you know, said to me at the time. He goes, yeah, 0:51:34.400 --> 0:51:36.200 I'll come back. Let's we can jam again. So we 0:51:36.239 --> 0:51:40.120 started playing and Gary says, you know, we should form 0:51:40.200 --> 0:51:43.440 something and I can write and you play great, and 0:51:43.480 --> 0:51:46.680 so we started kind of trying to put a you know, 0:51:46.719 --> 0:51:50.320 a band together. And I'm like thirty two years old, sober, 0:51:50.560 --> 0:51:52.040 thinking what am I doing with the rest of my 0:51:52.080 --> 0:51:54.080 life here? So yeah, you know what I'm gonna I'm 0:51:54.080 --> 0:51:55.520 gonna be in the band. I'm gonna be the band. 0:51:55.560 --> 0:51:58.040 And then, you know, I had a moment of clarity 0:51:58.120 --> 0:52:01.239 at this point. I realized I wasn't that good at 0:52:01.280 --> 0:52:04.279 twenty two and you know, I didn't do this with 0:52:04.360 --> 0:52:08.960 Peterbuck and probably not good enough now at thirty two. Um. 0:52:09.440 --> 0:52:11.879 And then I was starting to work with the Wallflowers 0:52:11.920 --> 0:52:14.640 and and and then I thought, well, wait a minute, 0:52:15.320 --> 0:52:17.120 what do I do here? So Gary said to me, look, 0:52:17.200 --> 0:52:18.840 I know you're working with this band, the Wallflowers. You 0:52:18.840 --> 0:52:20.640 either got to commit this thing to me. We're going 0:52:20.680 --> 0:52:22.160 to commit to the Wallfers. And I thought, bet on 0:52:22.239 --> 0:52:24.000 myself or bet on Jacob Doylan. I think I would 0:52:24.000 --> 0:52:25.920 have bet on Jacob Dylan. So I we didn't. The 0:52:25.920 --> 0:52:29.840 band dissolved, but later, like twenty years later, I saw 0:52:29.920 --> 0:52:34.439 him at a at a show and and I said, hey, man, 0:52:34.640 --> 0:52:36.800 you remember remember how we used to you know? He 0:52:37.160 --> 0:52:38.719 I said, well, let's let's try to play again. Because 0:52:38.719 --> 0:52:39.960 I was out of capital. I didn't know what I 0:52:40.000 --> 0:52:41.840 was doing. And so we got the band back together 0:52:41.880 --> 0:52:45.840 and we started playing. And and you know, it was 0:52:45.920 --> 0:52:51.600 really because I was I was dating this girl, and 0:52:51.600 --> 0:52:54.960 and and she was playing around town, and she was 0:52:55.000 --> 0:52:58.960 talking about how important all these gigs were, you know, 0:52:59.040 --> 0:53:03.040 and you're you know, how it is right, we we 0:53:03.239 --> 0:53:07.520 put up with these things that sometimes our our romantic 0:53:07.600 --> 0:53:11.120 partners say, you know, because we want to be supportive, 0:53:11.160 --> 0:53:13.960 and then we're supportive to a point. And I was saying, 0:53:14.360 --> 0:53:16.319 she was saying, and it's so you don't understand this 0:53:16.440 --> 0:53:18.359 gig we have at the I don't know what it was, 0:53:18.560 --> 0:53:22.799 the hotel cafe. And I said, anybody can play there, 0:53:22.880 --> 0:53:25.640 it's not that big deal, and and she goes, it's 0:53:25.680 --> 0:53:28.560 a big deal, and I said, okay, So I called 0:53:28.640 --> 0:53:31.279 up Gary said Gary, we're gonna play, and we're gonna 0:53:31.280 --> 0:53:35.240 play every freaking place that she's playing. Okay, I'm gig everywhere. Explained. 0:53:35.400 --> 0:53:38.400 So for like you know, a month or so, I 0:53:38.480 --> 0:53:40.120 just you know, I had my band and I saw, like, 0:53:40.200 --> 0:53:42.960 you know, honey, see now I'm playing their Thursday. Now 0:53:43.000 --> 0:53:45.600 I'm playing there Saturday, now I'm playing. There, I'm playing, 0:53:45.960 --> 0:53:48.520 I'm playing. But and then I thought, you know, then 0:53:48.560 --> 0:53:50.640 I actually thought, oh wait a minute, because well, we 0:53:51.040 --> 0:53:53.040 were a cover band, and we we were actually Neelly 0:53:53.040 --> 0:53:54.920 Young cover band, which I hope Neil Young doesn't here, 0:53:54.920 --> 0:53:56.760 but he's gonna hear because I just said it to you. 0:53:56.800 --> 0:53:59.759 But so we were playing around and I thought, you know, 0:54:00.320 --> 0:54:03.680 this is fun. This is more fun than having to 0:54:03.760 --> 0:54:06.000 like make the number for David Muttons and e M 0:54:06.040 --> 0:54:10.040 I fuck okay. So but you know, we did it 0:54:10.080 --> 0:54:12.040 a little bit. We played a bunch of things. We 0:54:12.400 --> 0:54:14.719 played in New York and I don't know. I had 0:54:14.800 --> 0:54:19.880 this one moment where I was walking on um it 0:54:19.960 --> 0:54:22.120 was like in the Bowery and I saw this poster 0:54:22.200 --> 0:54:26.920 and it said the Incredit InCred the Unforgettable Fire, uh 0:54:27.040 --> 0:54:31.279 a true YouTube experience. And I saw saying I went, oh, 0:54:32.000 --> 0:54:35.040 wait a minute, that's me. I don't know if I 0:54:35.080 --> 0:54:37.920 could do this, And I realized, I just I'm about 0:54:37.960 --> 0:54:40.040 to take the biggest nose dive in the history of 0:54:40.080 --> 0:54:42.960 the musical. I'm going from the CEO of Capitol Records 0:54:43.000 --> 0:54:45.080 to the guitar player in a cover band. What am 0:54:45.080 --> 0:54:48.440 I doing? So you know I quickly, you know, altered 0:54:48.440 --> 0:54:52.000 course that was that the other three guys who stayed 0:54:52.000 --> 0:54:56.600 too or is there? Everybody plays in their session musicians 0:54:56.600 --> 0:54:58.640 and guys play with other people. But we have a 0:54:58.640 --> 0:55:00.400 lot of fun when we do it. You know, still 0:55:00.440 --> 0:55:04.120 play like once a year. But you know, really it's uh, 0:55:04.239 --> 0:55:07.480 you know, we're just we're all such diehard crazy Horse 0:55:07.520 --> 0:55:09.560 fans and Neil Young fans that you know, we we 0:55:09.680 --> 0:55:12.360 love playing that music. And Gary and Gary and the 0:55:12.360 --> 0:55:15.440 singer are really great. I mean, you know, Unfortu is 0:55:15.440 --> 0:55:19.520 still selling Deli meats. Gary is still selling Deli meat 0:55:19.840 --> 0:55:23.000 at Canner's where you can find him someday and YouTube 0:55:23.000 --> 0:55:26.239 can join a band with him. Okay, tell us the 0:55:26.280 --> 0:55:32.319 story of the famous Fiona Apple video, which one the 0:55:32.360 --> 0:55:34.799 one in the back seat of the car criminal. I 0:55:34.840 --> 0:55:37.440 believe it was well that video, I mean I think 0:55:37.520 --> 0:55:43.719 it's uh, I think it's a it was inspired by 0:55:43.719 --> 0:55:47.839 the photographs of Nan Golden. Uh. If you look at 0:55:47.880 --> 0:55:50.560 some of those shots, that's what that is, and that 0:55:50.840 --> 0:55:52.880 and and that during that time. I mean, you know 0:55:52.920 --> 0:55:57.319 Mark Romantic, who is the director, who's a genius, I 0:55:57.360 --> 0:56:02.080 mean one of the great Uh. You always had a 0:56:02.200 --> 0:56:07.040 point of view that came from a place of art, 0:56:07.880 --> 0:56:10.000 never a place of commerce. You couldn't talk to me 0:56:10.040 --> 0:56:14.840 about selling anything. He was you know, he was a 0:56:14.840 --> 0:56:21.400 a very well read, uh and and learned guy in 0:56:21.520 --> 0:56:25.400 terms of the history of photography. And so that video 0:56:25.600 --> 0:56:32.080 was really based on that. UM I do remember one 0:56:32.160 --> 0:56:35.600 at one point I came to the set and it 0:56:35.719 --> 0:56:37.960 was shot in a lot in her house, beautiful house. 0:56:40.040 --> 0:56:42.319 I came to the set and Jeff Airoff, who was 0:56:42.360 --> 0:56:46.359 the president of the record company, he says to me, 0:56:47.400 --> 0:56:49.680 I gotta talk to you. You you've got to do something. 0:56:49.880 --> 0:56:51.960 I said, what, man, what what? Everything? This looks cool? 0:56:52.000 --> 0:56:55.760 Here he goes, she's in her underwear and she's selling 0:56:55.840 --> 0:57:00.960 and you've got to stop her. And I said, uh, okay. 0:57:01.400 --> 0:57:04.080 So I went over to the set and found it 0:57:04.160 --> 0:57:05.880 was like and I don't know if she's in like 0:57:05.920 --> 0:57:09.600 a nighty or something. And I said, uh, if you know, 0:57:09.640 --> 0:57:12.920 I just Jeff Aroff just said, you know, you're you know, 0:57:12.960 --> 0:57:16.280 you're in your underwear filming and you gotta stop. She said, 0:57:16.360 --> 0:57:18.800 I know what I'm doing. You tell him I know 0:57:18.840 --> 0:57:22.400 what I'm doing, and to leave me alone, and you know, 0:57:22.600 --> 0:57:26.080 and that was and and honestly I mean, you know, 0:57:26.640 --> 0:57:30.920 Fiona did does what Fiona wants to do always, you know, 0:57:31.440 --> 0:57:33.920 and I would say that nothing she does is not 0:57:34.000 --> 0:57:39.120 from a place that's well thought out and uh, you know, 0:57:39.280 --> 0:57:43.560 and and artistic and and Okay, so the sexual content 0:57:43.640 --> 0:57:47.840 of that we're attributing to both her and Romanic. I mean, 0:57:47.960 --> 0:57:50.000 I don't really when I look at that, I don't 0:57:50.240 --> 0:57:51.960 see it as that. I mean, it looks like a 0:57:52.000 --> 0:57:54.000 Calvin Klein ad. You know, it looked like the count 0:57:54.080 --> 0:57:56.680 cli I don't want to get whatever. My personal opinion, 0:57:56.800 --> 0:58:01.040 because we're jaded, perception was that it was sexualized of 0:58:01.080 --> 0:58:07.160 a young woman. Again, you know, I didn't see it 0:58:07.240 --> 0:58:08.920 like that, and I haven't looked at it in a 0:58:08.920 --> 0:58:10.520 long time. I would have to look at it through 0:58:10.520 --> 0:58:14.600 today's and say that. But really, at that time, you know, 0:58:14.920 --> 0:58:19.440 it was, uh, it seemed to me like a moving 0:58:19.520 --> 0:58:22.800 extension of the photographs of Nan Golden. Okay, let's just 0:58:22.840 --> 0:58:25.920 jump ahead, because you mentioned you produced the Macy Gray record. 0:58:27.000 --> 0:58:32.040 Both those acts had gigantic, gigantic success and then never 0:58:32.120 --> 0:58:35.320 really followed it up. Why is that. Well, Fiona has 0:58:35.360 --> 0:58:36.720 one of the great careers. I mean, I have to 0:58:36.760 --> 0:58:39.439 say her influence on modern music, you know, and the 0:58:39.440 --> 0:58:45.520 singer songwriter is pretty pronounced. And the records that she's 0:58:45.520 --> 0:58:48.840 made since then, and and you know, the second record 0:58:49.080 --> 0:58:54.040 is you know, I would think maybe her best record. Um, 0:58:54.080 --> 0:58:58.040 but they're all like you know, like I said about Zevon, 0:58:58.200 --> 0:59:01.160 and I would say about Johnny if you read those lyrics, 0:59:01.160 --> 0:59:04.120 and Bob, you should read those lyrics, there is not 0:59:04.320 --> 0:59:09.320 a misplaced word. And as an interpretive singer unparalleled to me, 0:59:09.560 --> 0:59:12.080 and you know, just look through the stuff. So I 0:59:12.120 --> 0:59:15.840 think whether it's someone like King Princess, a current artist 0:59:15.920 --> 0:59:19.600 you know, who is influenced by her, or you know, 0:59:19.680 --> 0:59:24.360 just her contemporaries, she stands, you know, as to me 0:59:24.560 --> 0:59:27.800 as as one of the greats. And I'm not that 0:59:27.880 --> 0:59:36.360 easy to impress it. I think she hasn't had another hit, 0:59:37.520 --> 0:59:41.000 She has a great career, She can do whatever she wants, 0:59:41.200 --> 0:59:45.120 She has artistic freedom, she can play in So you 0:59:45.160 --> 0:59:48.440 don't think that she was inhibited or had a backlash 0:59:48.440 --> 0:59:54.000 because of the Gargangelan success on the first album. I 0:59:54.040 --> 0:59:57.880 think that, as you know, and you have often said 0:59:58.320 --> 1:00:02.400 in your column, the best way to establish a career 1:00:02.400 --> 1:00:09.560 in the music business is to build credibility first and 1:00:09.680 --> 1:00:14.800 a base and expand upon that and never waiver from 1:00:14.840 --> 1:00:19.320 you know, your artistic endeavors to get to grab for 1:00:19.440 --> 1:00:26.560 something elusive like a big hit record. Um, sometimes you 1:00:26.640 --> 1:00:29.240 have a big hit like Radiohead had a big hit, 1:00:29.960 --> 1:00:35.480 and but they are they are as good as the 1:00:35.560 --> 1:00:39.880 success and they decide creatively to go in different directions. 1:00:40.360 --> 1:00:42.600 You know, you could say the same about Neil Young. 1:00:42.960 --> 1:00:44.800 You know he has heart of gold and he makes 1:00:44.840 --> 1:00:50.200 Tonight's tonight. I mean, you know that success gives you 1:00:50.240 --> 1:00:53.720 the freedom if you're an artist, to create in a 1:00:53.800 --> 1:00:57.200 way that you that you want. And you can either 1:00:57.280 --> 1:01:04.000 be beholden to commercial success, you know, or use the 1:01:04.040 --> 1:01:07.560 platform to be a true artist and express herself. And 1:01:07.760 --> 1:01:10.560 and I think in Fiona's case, she used the platform 1:01:10.640 --> 1:01:13.080 to express herself in the ways that she she wanted to. 1:01:13.280 --> 1:01:16.880 And what about you know, Macy was different. I mean, 1:01:18.160 --> 1:01:21.080 you know for me, I I as a record producer, 1:01:21.160 --> 1:01:23.720 I only wanted to make a record when I had 1:01:23.760 --> 1:01:26.280 an idea or I had songs that I had an 1:01:26.320 --> 1:01:27.840 idea of something to do with. I didn't want to 1:01:27.840 --> 1:01:30.400 be in a studio and say, okay, this is I 1:01:30.480 --> 1:01:32.760 make my living. Let me I'll produce the next guy, 1:01:32.760 --> 1:01:34.480 and I've got to make money doing this, though I 1:01:34.520 --> 1:01:36.320 was very fortunate to be able to do that with 1:01:37.080 --> 1:01:40.080 great writers. Warren was an amazing writer, and Fiona is 1:01:40.080 --> 1:01:42.720 an amazing writer. And that first Macy Gray record has 1:01:42.760 --> 1:01:46.640 some of the some of her best lyrics on that record. 1:01:46.680 --> 1:01:49.080 I think if you look at any of those songs, 1:01:49.240 --> 1:01:56.440 they really are great stories and and real, uh, pure 1:01:56.480 --> 1:01:59.640 emotions from the heart, you know. In making the Macy record, 1:01:59.680 --> 1:02:03.440 I mean that was also such an incredible experience for 1:02:03.520 --> 1:02:06.960 me because I got to basically take the records I 1:02:07.040 --> 1:02:09.880 loved his kid and rip them off. I mean, we 1:02:09.960 --> 1:02:12.280 did sly Stone. You know, why don't you call me? 1:02:12.320 --> 1:02:16.200 It's just us doing sly Stone and and uh in um, 1:02:16.680 --> 1:02:18.360 I can't wait to meet you. We're doing kind of 1:02:18.400 --> 1:02:21.240 al Green and you know, and and still we're doing 1:02:21.280 --> 1:02:23.360 a Wreath of Franklin. So what I was trying to 1:02:23.400 --> 1:02:25.360 do was so trying to make some kind of artful 1:02:25.360 --> 1:02:29.520 synthesis of old and new. And that's kind of what 1:02:29.560 --> 1:02:32.520 I always have done, you know. I I have the 1:02:32.520 --> 1:02:36.120 sonic reference points, so here the string sound of something 1:02:36.600 --> 1:02:38.959 in something modern, or we'll have the Stevie wondered drum 1:02:39.000 --> 1:02:40.960 sound you know the high Stevie Wonder high hat on 1:02:41.000 --> 1:02:43.000 something and you'll hear that really loud. And you know, 1:02:43.160 --> 1:02:49.240 with that record, I Macy wanted to make a rap record. 1:02:49.440 --> 1:02:53.160 She she loved Lauren Hill and she won. She gave 1:02:53.200 --> 1:02:56.000 me The Miseducation of Lauren Hill and said this is 1:02:56.040 --> 1:02:59.120 what I wanted to be. And I said, here's Mad 1:02:59.160 --> 1:03:02.760 Dogs and Englishman. Watch this movie. This is what your 1:03:02.760 --> 1:03:07.680 band should be. It should be this big rainbow coalition 1:03:07.880 --> 1:03:10.680 and you should go around and and that's what you 1:03:10.720 --> 1:03:15.200 should do. And and and there were such crazy things 1:03:15.200 --> 1:03:19.880 on that record. I mean, you know, I remember we 1:03:19.880 --> 1:03:23.080 were we were I wanted to bring wah Wah Watson 1:03:23.120 --> 1:03:26.960 in to to play on on one of the songs 1:03:27.040 --> 1:03:29.800 because I was trying to do some stuff with Eric Marshall, 1:03:29.800 --> 1:03:32.280 who's an amazing, you know, modern young guitar player at 1:03:32.280 --> 1:03:35.720 the time, and and wa wa Watson and and you know, 1:03:37.240 --> 1:03:39.960 uh so Wahwah came in and and he set up 1:03:40.000 --> 1:03:42.720 his whole thing, which took about two hours, which was 1:03:42.800 --> 1:03:47.160 a wah wah pedal and a guitar um and and 1:03:47.240 --> 1:03:49.560 we we gave him the track and he started saying, well, 1:03:49.560 --> 1:03:51.480 you know what I'm gonna do now is I'm gonna 1:03:52.280 --> 1:03:56.360 I'm gonna gesticulate, and you know, and he was talking 1:03:56.400 --> 1:03:58.720 a lot about what he was going to do, and 1:03:58.760 --> 1:04:02.439 Mace was getting very frustrated it. So so we put 1:04:02.480 --> 1:04:06.280 the track up and we're already he's built this moment 1:04:06.360 --> 1:04:13.200 up with the track up, and he goes, what and 1:04:13.280 --> 1:04:15.960 she literally grasps me by the collar and shed we 1:04:16.000 --> 1:04:19.720 go outside and she goes, get this guy, why these 1:04:19.760 --> 1:04:21.600 old guys have to be in my room? But I 1:04:21.640 --> 1:04:24.080 don't need these guys on my record. And I was like, oh, 1:04:24.120 --> 1:04:29.640 ship anyway. But you know, her whole, her whole uh 1:04:29.960 --> 1:04:34.400 uh posse of people were so amazing to work with. 1:04:34.520 --> 1:04:36.320 I mean, you know, okay, so why did it? Why 1:04:36.400 --> 1:04:39.439 couldn't she never follow it up? You know, I don't know. 1:04:39.680 --> 1:04:43.960 I mean I think sometimes and this is just conjecture. 1:04:47.840 --> 1:04:51.000 I like making first record with artists because their first record, 1:04:51.240 --> 1:04:52.960 at least back in the day in fact, you could 1:04:52.960 --> 1:04:55.120 before you could make one in your house. You you 1:04:55.160 --> 1:04:57.840 weren't able to utilize all the tools of the studio. 1:04:58.360 --> 1:05:00.520 And they come in with these songs that they've worked 1:05:00.520 --> 1:05:03.000 on their whole lives with and you take the best 1:05:03.040 --> 1:05:05.920 of these songs and you can maybe build a sound 1:05:05.960 --> 1:05:08.479 that becomes the foundation for what they're gonna do next. 1:05:08.560 --> 1:05:11.040 And to me, that's fun because it allows me to 1:05:11.120 --> 1:05:15.160 do what I want to do. After you sell eight 1:05:15.200 --> 1:05:22.880 million records as she did, and people tell you, you know, uh, 1:05:23.120 --> 1:05:25.720 you know how how how great you are I guess, 1:05:25.760 --> 1:05:27.920 or how great your music is, then you want to 1:05:27.920 --> 1:05:30.080 try to expand and do other things. I mean, I 1:05:30.080 --> 1:05:33.760 will tell you this one story. Jacob Dylan went to 1:05:34.000 --> 1:05:39.520 Carnegie Hall to play a a Neil Young benefit tribute 1:05:39.760 --> 1:05:42.080 and it had like Patti Smith and the Roots and 1:05:42.120 --> 1:05:43.840 you know, all these bands playing nearly Young songs. And 1:05:43.840 --> 1:05:46.320 I said, Jacob, this is like the after I left Capital. 1:05:46.560 --> 1:05:48.680 I said, who are you taking to play guitar? He 1:05:48.680 --> 1:05:50.440 said no, but I'm the house And I said, why 1:05:50.440 --> 1:05:51.960 don't you take me? He says, you know what, let 1:05:51.960 --> 1:05:54.960 me call you back to find that answer why not? 1:05:55.640 --> 1:05:58.280 And to hit the Jacob's credit. He called me back 1:05:58.280 --> 1:06:01.440 and he said, you know what, man, you got me 1:06:01.480 --> 1:06:03.480 to play in front of the Stones at Dodger Stadium, 1:06:03.520 --> 1:06:05.560 and you got me to play in front of the 1:06:05.600 --> 1:06:08.800 Who and Madison Square Gun Come with me, said great, 1:06:08.920 --> 1:06:11.120 So Jake came to my house. We learned the song 1:06:11.200 --> 1:06:12.960 and be okay, we go to the thing. We go 1:06:13.040 --> 1:06:16.480 to Carnegie Hall. Okay, I'm standing on a side of 1:06:16.520 --> 1:06:20.320 the stage and I'll never forget this. You know, they're 1:06:20.320 --> 1:06:21.840 about to walk and I saw the people that I 1:06:21.880 --> 1:06:24.320 know in the business and I think, I think, Pete, 1:06:24.320 --> 1:06:26.840 you're in the guitar player with sing He says, hey man, 1:06:26.880 --> 1:06:28.400 you know they were about to say, Jacob, you go on. 1:06:28.720 --> 1:06:31.000 And so I start to walk on on the stage 1:06:31.000 --> 1:06:32.360 of Carnegie On Pete your and you can see his 1:06:32.360 --> 1:06:34.200 face going no, Andy, no, no, no, that not you, 1:06:34.280 --> 1:06:36.040 not you, And that was it was me. So I 1:06:36.040 --> 1:06:39.440 went on stage and I played these two solos and 1:06:39.560 --> 1:06:42.280 I'll never forget. I got a text from my cousin 1:06:42.400 --> 1:06:44.640 and he said, hey man, I'm at Carnegie Hall and 1:06:44.760 --> 1:06:47.040 you know, Jacob Dolan's guitar player looks exactly like it. 1:06:48.160 --> 1:06:50.320 But I did this thing and after the show, we're 1:06:50.320 --> 1:06:52.200 at this after party. Were people who were at the 1:06:52.240 --> 1:06:55.160 show and were you happy with your performance? Yeah? I 1:06:55.200 --> 1:06:57.240 was great, write the song four thousand times and one thing. 1:06:57.440 --> 1:06:59.480 I wasn't nervous, very cool to play Carnegie Hall. And 1:06:59.520 --> 1:07:01.080 he says, all a one of the great moments of 1:07:01.080 --> 1:07:02.600 my life that I get to play lead guitar kind 1:07:02.600 --> 1:07:04.880 of your own people cheer. Was like wow. But here's 1:07:04.920 --> 1:07:08.440 the point of the story. So after the show, Jacob 1:07:08.480 --> 1:07:10.360 says to me, Oh, you see those people over there, 1:07:10.520 --> 1:07:13.680 they're looking at you, and I go, oh yeah, He goes, 1:07:13.680 --> 1:07:15.080 you know why they look at you? Know? I don't know. 1:07:15.080 --> 1:07:16.720 I guess because you're the lead guitar player. And I'm 1:07:16.760 --> 1:07:18.800 walking around the reception and I'm getting that kind of 1:07:18.800 --> 1:07:21.240 like fish out from people. Oh hey, I like yoursel, 1:07:21.480 --> 1:07:22.560 like your sol. And I said to him, you know 1:07:22.560 --> 1:07:24.760 what this is. While you guys are nuts, if you 1:07:24.840 --> 1:07:27.280 do this every day, you're gonna be gonna be crazy. 1:07:27.640 --> 1:07:30.840 So the point is, if you're whoever and you sell 1:07:30.880 --> 1:07:34.680 eight million records and people do that to you every day, 1:07:34.880 --> 1:07:38.000 it has to have an effect on you. And you 1:07:38.080 --> 1:07:41.720 also want to be in control of your own destiny. 1:07:41.720 --> 1:07:44.760 And I think Macy wanted to make the records she 1:07:44.800 --> 1:07:46.840 wanted to make. She didn't want to make that record, 1:07:46.920 --> 1:07:49.840 and and that's what she did. And whether or not 1:07:50.000 --> 1:07:52.720 she was able to to, you know, continue the success 1:07:52.760 --> 1:07:54.600 of eight million records or all I try as a 1:07:54.720 --> 1:07:57.560 number one record. You know who knows what those factors are. 1:07:57.560 --> 1:08:01.080 But clearly I think we all get empowered to do 1:08:01.200 --> 1:08:05.360 things that we shouldn't do. And luckily, you know, some 1:08:05.560 --> 1:08:08.200 of us in the business world say I must know 1:08:08.280 --> 1:08:11.680 my limitations and don't do those things. Okay, let's jump 1:08:11.680 --> 1:08:14.560 ahead to capital. Was that a job you were looking for? 1:08:16.439 --> 1:08:22.240 You know? I really never sat in a marketing meeting, 1:08:22.320 --> 1:08:25.680 let alone ran one. And I was not thinking that 1:08:25.880 --> 1:08:29.639 was something that I I wanted to do. I had 1:08:29.680 --> 1:08:34.439 gotten three offers to do it. I had a meeting 1:08:34.479 --> 1:08:37.920 with Tommy Mattala at Scalinatela and he wanted me to 1:08:38.000 --> 1:08:42.280 run one of his companies. And I just thought, I 1:08:42.320 --> 1:08:45.280 don't know, it's doesn't I really want to make some 1:08:45.520 --> 1:08:48.960 cool ship. I don't know if I that's a big 1:08:49.000 --> 1:08:52.040 company that seems very political. And then when Tom Alley 1:08:52.160 --> 1:08:55.240 was going to leave Interscope and he had signed that 1:08:55.280 --> 1:08:58.439 deal with Warner Brothers, Jimmy came to me and he said, 1:08:58.479 --> 1:09:00.719 Jimmy Ivan came to me and he said, you should 1:09:00.800 --> 1:09:05.360 you know, you should run uh Interscope and go see Doug. 1:09:05.960 --> 1:09:07.960 And I went to see the Great Doug Morris and 1:09:08.000 --> 1:09:12.040 I had a great meeting with him, and Doug said 1:09:12.080 --> 1:09:14.240 to me, you know what, I wanna make Tom Molly 1:09:14.280 --> 1:09:16.799 work for you, because he was still in his contract. 1:09:17.280 --> 1:09:19.760 Tom and I were friends, and I went to see 1:09:19.760 --> 1:09:22.439 Tom and and I said, hey, man, you know, we 1:09:22.479 --> 1:09:24.679 had the success with the wallflowers, an airscope and everything, 1:09:24.720 --> 1:09:26.559 and I said, you know what's going on? He said, look, 1:09:27.120 --> 1:09:29.240 you know, and you gotta do what you gotta do. 1:09:29.280 --> 1:09:32.280 And you know, uh, you decide what you want to do, 1:09:32.320 --> 1:09:35.679 and it just, you know, it didn't feel it felt 1:09:36.800 --> 1:09:41.439 not right to me. It felt like, I guess, uh, 1:09:41.600 --> 1:09:44.000 I just didn't see a path to doing something that 1:09:44.080 --> 1:09:46.280 I wanted to do just to have the job and 1:09:46.360 --> 1:09:48.960 have a title. That wasn't it. Really. I was never 1:09:48.960 --> 1:09:52.600 in it for that. And then Ken Barry came to 1:09:52.640 --> 1:09:55.439 me and he said, look, you want to own Capitol Records. 1:09:55.439 --> 1:09:59.000 And to me, at the time, Capitol Records was in 1:09:59.080 --> 1:10:02.160 a sort of strange place. Roy Lott had tried to 1:10:02.240 --> 1:10:05.640 transition it from what Gary Gersh had started there, and 1:10:06.160 --> 1:10:09.240 he was trying to make it into Arista, and I 1:10:09.320 --> 1:10:14.040 just saw it as this this brand that if you 1:10:14.040 --> 1:10:16.800 were able to connect the legacy of the company to 1:10:16.840 --> 1:10:20.000 the contemporary business in some way and market that that 1:10:20.120 --> 1:10:22.479 you could make it into a place where people would 1:10:22.520 --> 1:10:26.479 want to go and sign. And I thought, if you 1:10:26.520 --> 1:10:28.200 have a couple of hits, that's better. And I have 1:10:28.240 --> 1:10:30.640 no hits. I have your interscarp you gotta keep having it. 1:10:30.800 --> 1:10:32.760 If you're a Sony company, you better have a lot 1:10:32.760 --> 1:10:37.640 of hits fast. And so I they they made me 1:10:38.160 --> 1:10:44.200 this crazy offer. And I said, okay, and and and 1:10:44.200 --> 1:10:46.719 and and the craziest thing, you know, when I got there, 1:10:47.560 --> 1:10:51.120 I you know, again, I did something. I followed my 1:10:51.240 --> 1:10:54.160 heart and I didn't really sort of think it through, 1:10:55.160 --> 1:10:58.200 which I have often done in in my life, probably 1:10:58.240 --> 1:11:01.280 personally more than business. And and I got to the 1:11:01.320 --> 1:11:07.439 first meeting, and I remember calling up. I remember calling 1:11:07.520 --> 1:11:09.559 Michelle Anthony and saying, you know who I was very 1:11:09.560 --> 1:11:13.839 close with. And she said and I said, look, um, okay, 1:11:13.920 --> 1:11:15.559 now what do I do? And she says, well, look, 1:11:16.200 --> 1:11:19.200 you're a manager, you're a record maker, your in publicity, 1:11:19.320 --> 1:11:21.760 you know, marketing. Look at their meeting schedule to go 1:11:21.800 --> 1:11:23.920 to the meetings and see what you think. So I 1:11:23.920 --> 1:11:27.120 went to the first meeting. At the marketing meeting, you know, 1:11:27.160 --> 1:11:29.800 I looked at their records and I listened to everybody talk, 1:11:29.880 --> 1:11:32.560 and you know, I was I make some suggestions to 1:11:32.640 --> 1:11:34.320 things that I thought and everybody was agreeing with me. 1:11:34.960 --> 1:11:36.880 I thought, wow, this is crazy. So went back in 1:11:36.920 --> 1:11:39.080 my office. I called my brother. I said, is the 1:11:39.080 --> 1:11:41.080 craziest thing. He said, what. Remember I've been trying to 1:11:41.120 --> 1:11:42.960 let trying to get you guys to listen to me 1:11:43.040 --> 1:11:44.639 my whole life. Well, I just went to this meeting. 1:11:44.640 --> 1:11:47.679 Everything I say is truly it's incredible. Of course, I 1:11:47.760 --> 1:11:51.400 later figured out, you know, who was really good at 1:11:51.439 --> 1:11:53.280 what they were doing and who could do what I 1:11:53.320 --> 1:11:55.599 wanted to do, and I and I changed that. But 1:11:55.960 --> 1:12:01.400 a crazy thing happened within the first eight weeks of 1:12:01.479 --> 1:12:03.840 being there, and I'm just trying to figure it out. 1:12:04.800 --> 1:12:06.760 In that first eight weeks, ken Berry says to me, 1:12:06.920 --> 1:12:09.920 We're going to merge Priority Records into Capitol Records. I'm like, whoa, 1:12:10.080 --> 1:12:13.800 hey what, oh yeah, yeah, you know. And and you know, 1:12:13.840 --> 1:12:16.160 their roster there that the company that they built was 1:12:16.200 --> 1:12:17.680 a great one, but it was a you know, a 1:12:17.880 --> 1:12:21.439 street It was a you know, like the West Coast 1:12:21.479 --> 1:12:26.880 sort of uh rap company, and and and the roster was, 1:12:27.120 --> 1:12:29.360 you know, with all sorts of characters. And but I 1:12:29.360 --> 1:12:31.559 didn't know anything about hip hop. I mean, I was like, 1:12:31.560 --> 1:12:35.160 wait a minute, you know, I knew pop rock. But 1:12:35.240 --> 1:12:37.160 I said, okay, I'll figure that out. And I met 1:12:37.160 --> 1:12:39.000 with the people and I figured out who knew what 1:12:39.040 --> 1:12:40.880 they were doing and who was good. And I kept 1:12:40.880 --> 1:12:42.439 the people who looked like they knew what they were 1:12:42.479 --> 1:12:44.559 doing in a and arm promotion. And you know, I said, okay, 1:12:44.600 --> 1:12:48.000 well we'll go with this. And but two weeks later, 1:12:49.120 --> 1:12:51.920 my boss gets fired. Ken Barry gets fired the guy 1:12:51.920 --> 1:12:55.400 who hired me, and I'll never forget this. Like I 1:12:55.560 --> 1:12:58.880 call up Howard Kaufman and I go, holy sh it, 1:13:00.360 --> 1:13:03.840 my boss just got fired. What's going to happen with 1:13:03.880 --> 1:13:07.040 this new guy? And how it says to me, pray 1:13:07.160 --> 1:13:10.160 he hates you. I go, what he goes, have you 1:13:10.240 --> 1:13:12.679 seen your contracts? Later? They'll have to pay you every 1:13:12.720 --> 1:13:14.280 dime And I said, no, no, no, I don't want 1:13:14.280 --> 1:13:16.320 the money. I wanted that this looks seems like it 1:13:16.320 --> 1:13:20.679 could be fun anyway. So Alan Levy and David Bunns 1:13:20.720 --> 1:13:23.479 came in and and you know, in that first year, 1:13:25.760 --> 1:13:28.639 I just said, let's just whatever sounds like a hit, 1:13:28.760 --> 1:13:31.400 let's just go with whatever. Records are done in England, 1:13:31.439 --> 1:13:33.519 these records are done. Good will promote these, I'll sign 1:13:33.640 --> 1:13:35.680 some stuff. And you know, in that first year, I 1:13:35.760 --> 1:13:38.280 think we had we called him Minogue. We did like 1:13:38.280 --> 1:13:41.240 a million records, and a band called Dirty Vegas. We 1:13:41.280 --> 1:13:44.160 did like a half million records. And then I signed 1:13:45.040 --> 1:13:47.679 Uh the Vines, and you know they did they had 1:13:47.720 --> 1:13:51.080 almost a million records, and Chingy did three million records. 1:13:51.080 --> 1:13:53.880 And then I took Coldplay because I thought they were good. 1:13:54.479 --> 1:13:56.240 I want to see them at the Mayan Theater and 1:13:56.320 --> 1:13:59.000 I'll never forget. And I said to the manager, you know, 1:13:59.160 --> 1:14:01.479 I said, look, if the band will do a hundred 1:14:01.520 --> 1:14:04.360 and fifty dates in America, we can break the band. 1:14:04.920 --> 1:14:06.960 You know, you may not have a bigger hit than Yellow. 1:14:07.600 --> 1:14:11.879 But that's the one problem I've always seen where English 1:14:11.880 --> 1:14:14.559 bands have hits over in England and they don't spend 1:14:14.600 --> 1:14:16.040 the time here, you know, because they were having a 1:14:16.040 --> 1:14:18.120 problem with Robbie Williams and it was all this disparity 1:14:18.160 --> 1:14:20.200 between England. And you're gonna say that guy doesn't spend 1:14:20.200 --> 1:14:21.479 any time. You can't come in and do Jay Leno. 1:14:21.520 --> 1:14:24.320 I think you're gonna be a hit. So you know, 1:14:24.600 --> 1:14:27.240 Coldplay did all those dates, and you know, we saw it. 1:14:27.280 --> 1:14:28.880 We saw all those records, and all of a sudden, 1:14:28.880 --> 1:14:30.799 you know, months and leaving they were they were sharpening 1:14:30.880 --> 1:14:33.559 the knife and then getting the noose and the gun 1:14:33.640 --> 1:14:35.800 ready to put somebody else. We were having hits, and 1:14:35.840 --> 1:14:40.160 so you know, they focused on Virgin and fixing that. 1:14:40.280 --> 1:14:41.920 And you know, through the course of that, through the 1:14:41.920 --> 1:14:43.360 course of the time of Capital, I mean, we broke 1:14:43.360 --> 1:14:46.000 a British Act. Every year. We broke We woke Kylie, 1:14:46.040 --> 1:14:48.160 we wroke dirty Veg. Guess we wrote Lily Allen, we 1:14:48.160 --> 1:14:52.200 broke ran Belly Ray. Uh, they will cold play. I mean, 1:14:52.600 --> 1:14:54.920 you know, in the history of Capital, I don't think 1:14:55.080 --> 1:15:00.439 you have a British Act being broken every year. And 1:15:01.520 --> 1:15:04.120 you know, in a way, I think the British company 1:15:04.200 --> 1:15:07.160 didn't love that because they were so used to ruling 1:15:07.200 --> 1:15:10.040 the roost and being able to beat up on the Americans. 1:15:10.080 --> 1:15:12.759 They didn't know anything and these guys can't do anything. 1:15:12.760 --> 1:15:14.080 And all of a sudden, you know, we were going 1:15:14.120 --> 1:15:16.160 to the meetings and you know, we had doubled the 1:15:16.200 --> 1:15:18.320 market share and you know, and double the profits and 1:15:18.560 --> 1:15:21.960 like in like two years, and so it was it 1:15:22.000 --> 1:15:25.400 was a good time. And uh, you know, and I 1:15:25.439 --> 1:15:27.160 didn't really care where the records came from. I mean, 1:15:27.160 --> 1:15:28.960 I wanted our records to do well. I wanted to 1:15:28.960 --> 1:15:30.880 sign our stuff, and you know, and we did. I mean, 1:15:30.920 --> 1:15:34.160 we did two million Yellow Card records, and we we 1:15:34.240 --> 1:15:36.240 signed LaToya, We did million records with her, and a 1:15:36.320 --> 1:15:38.680 million records at least, and Marie Presley and you know, 1:15:38.720 --> 1:15:40.640 and all sorts of uh, you know, all sorts of 1:15:40.640 --> 1:15:42.680 other stuff we signed into Paul we broke okay go. 1:15:42.800 --> 1:15:44.800 I mean we had a long list of stuff that 1:15:44.840 --> 1:15:47.719 I thought was you know, we put Snoop with Farrell 1:15:47.760 --> 1:15:49.400 and did their first record and did beautifully at a 1:15:49.479 --> 1:15:52.160 number one record. We had a healthy company. I got 1:15:52.160 --> 1:15:59.519 a new contract. But you know, in the end, it's um, 1:15:59.560 --> 1:16:05.120 it's not really what I wanted to do every day. 1:16:05.160 --> 1:16:06.400 You know, at the end of the day, I love 1:16:06.520 --> 1:16:09.240 music and I love making music. And the things I 1:16:09.280 --> 1:16:13.599 did I did from the heart. And making the number 1:16:14.360 --> 1:16:16.720 was great, and it was a great education, and I 1:16:16.760 --> 1:16:21.040 got to do some incredible things when I was there, 1:16:21.080 --> 1:16:24.240 and had great relationships with artists that I really really respect, 1:16:24.880 --> 1:16:29.200 and that was great. And also learning how to you know, 1:16:29.200 --> 1:16:31.800 how to run a business and and and having a 1:16:31.800 --> 1:16:36.000 successful business but corporate life is a killer and you know, 1:16:36.240 --> 1:16:40.000 you really you have to be more lucky than smart. 1:16:40.479 --> 1:16:45.439 And how did it end? Well, you know it ended. 1:16:45.520 --> 1:16:48.400 It was a long tail. You know, there were things there. 1:16:48.439 --> 1:16:51.320 It's like when we did well, I think they were 1:16:51.400 --> 1:16:55.160 kind of piste off, you know, because they didn't want 1:16:55.200 --> 1:16:56.560 us to do that. They didn't want us to do that. 1:16:56.560 --> 1:16:59.720 Because they wanted version do that, they hired the guy there. Uh, 1:16:59.760 --> 1:17:02.040 and when we weren't doing well, and there's always that time, 1:17:02.120 --> 1:17:04.920 you know, in the course of a five year plan. 1:17:05.520 --> 1:17:11.960 They didn't like it. But I do remember, uh, you know, 1:17:12.000 --> 1:17:16.880 we would have these meetings and um, well, in one 1:17:16.920 --> 1:17:19.720 of our financial meetings, we would have these conference the 1:17:20.200 --> 1:17:24.599 video conference meetings, and so you know, our numbers were 1:17:24.600 --> 1:17:26.600 pretty good. We had this meeting with the guys in 1:17:26.680 --> 1:17:30.560 New York and and they kept asking us questions and 1:17:30.600 --> 1:17:32.439 we had answers for the questions. Okay, So at the 1:17:32.520 --> 1:17:36.120 end of at the end of the financial meeting, they said, okay, yeah, 1:17:36.120 --> 1:17:38.240 thank you. It sounds too happy, and they clicked the 1:17:38.320 --> 1:17:42.040 video off. But they didn't turn the video off, so 1:17:42.080 --> 1:17:44.720 when we left the room, we could hear everything they 1:17:44.720 --> 1:17:46.960 were saying. And every time we had one of these meetings. 1:17:46.960 --> 1:17:49.360 They couldn't figure out how I turned the video conferencing off. 1:17:49.439 --> 1:17:51.400 So everything they said, we're gonna go after this, and 1:17:51.400 --> 1:17:52.880 we're gonna look at this, and we're gonna look at that. 1:17:52.880 --> 1:17:54.519 This is what this was. And we knew everywhere they 1:17:54.520 --> 1:17:56.120 were gonna go. So in three weeks when they came 1:17:56.200 --> 1:17:58.120 looking for the numbers of the things, we had all 1:17:58.120 --> 1:18:00.280 the answers, you know, But it was that kind of stuff. 1:18:00.320 --> 1:18:05.040 But I think, you know, to survive in at that 1:18:05.120 --> 1:18:09.120 time at e AM, I in a corporate environment, I think, 1:18:09.320 --> 1:18:11.240 you know, you had to be a little bit more political, 1:18:11.720 --> 1:18:16.400 and I just wasn't political, you know. I mean, you know, 1:18:16.520 --> 1:18:19.000 we had a conference at once where we all got 1:18:19.040 --> 1:18:22.960 together in the marketing conference and I think they had 1:18:22.960 --> 1:18:25.639 some guy from Sachi and Sachi and they were sort of, yeah, 1:18:25.680 --> 1:18:29.000 this is in the the months era and they and 1:18:29.080 --> 1:18:33.240 they had these guys telling us about how to run 1:18:33.280 --> 1:18:38.160 our business better. And they said, look, the consumer tells 1:18:38.240 --> 1:18:42.559 you what the product is and what to do with 1:18:42.640 --> 1:18:46.040 the product. Then we do this research. And he said, 1:18:46.080 --> 1:18:48.960 you know the research that we did, will we show you. 1:18:49.200 --> 1:18:51.519 We're in there, like they got the troop movements and 1:18:51.560 --> 1:18:54.160 a pointer, and I say, you're going, guys, you want 1:18:54.160 --> 1:18:56.240 me to make records and run marketing and like make 1:18:56.280 --> 1:18:58.680 sure the promotion guys are actually getting records played, Like 1:18:58.720 --> 1:19:01.400 what am I doing? But I didn't say they're my face. 1:19:01.439 --> 1:19:04.320 I'm sure didn't look really really happy all day. Anyway, 1:19:04.479 --> 1:19:07.439 the guy gets to the point where he says, so Paumala, 1:19:07.600 --> 1:19:10.160 they wanted to know what to do with the soap, 1:19:11.280 --> 1:19:14.679 and they went and did the research, and the soap 1:19:14.960 --> 1:19:19.240 they realized from the consumers had to be green. So 1:19:19.280 --> 1:19:21.920 I raised my hand and I go, yeah, but when 1:19:21.960 --> 1:19:24.639 I tell the soap at Capitol Records to be green, 1:19:24.680 --> 1:19:27.000 they tell me funk off because they're artists and their 1:19:27.040 --> 1:19:29.080 people and like I don't understand what we're doing, and 1:19:29.120 --> 1:19:30.840 I never forget. Months pulled me aside and he goes, 1:19:30.960 --> 1:19:33.040 why do you have to be that guy? And I said, 1:19:33.400 --> 1:19:34.720 what do you mean that guy? You mean the guy 1:19:34.760 --> 1:19:37.400 who's processing facts, Like I don't know, like this is 1:19:37.439 --> 1:19:39.320 not that relevant. He goes, just go back there and 1:19:39.360 --> 1:19:43.840 listen and you know, and don't disrupt things. So but 1:19:44.040 --> 1:19:49.280 that was my life, and you know I think that 1:19:50.240 --> 1:19:54.480 um you know, I I also, I mean I remastered 1:19:54.479 --> 1:19:58.160 the Beatles records. Okay, I I wanted to. When I 1:19:58.200 --> 1:20:00.200 was a kid, as when you were a kid, I 1:20:00.280 --> 1:20:03.679 had those records, I had some things new I wanted 1:20:04.120 --> 1:20:08.120 to because the Dylan catalog had been remastered and the 1:20:08.160 --> 1:20:10.720 Stones catalog had been remastered, and they and like by 1:20:10.720 --> 1:20:12.280 the time they were going to decide to do it, 1:20:12.320 --> 1:20:16.360 I just thought, we gotta do this. So I went 1:20:16.400 --> 1:20:18.559 to Ted Jensen, who was a master guy, and and 1:20:18.720 --> 1:20:22.720 I went to Neil aspinall what you know, may rest 1:20:22.760 --> 1:20:24.800 in peace. What a great guy, you know, who managed 1:20:24.800 --> 1:20:26.080 to be those And I said, well, let me do 1:20:26.160 --> 1:20:27.800 this because I really I just want to make these 1:20:27.800 --> 1:20:29.400 things sound good. And he said, okay, you can take 1:20:29.439 --> 1:20:31.240 those records and you can you send it to me. 1:20:31.920 --> 1:20:33.920 The British company did not like that because I went 1:20:33.920 --> 1:20:35.680 straight to the Beatles, but I had a really good 1:20:35.720 --> 1:20:38.000 relationship with all of them, and you know, I think 1:20:38.040 --> 1:20:39.639 that they didn't think I wanted to rip them off 1:20:39.720 --> 1:20:42.719 or take some money and make my number with their masters. 1:20:42.760 --> 1:20:45.559 They knew like I cared, I think, and so we 1:20:45.600 --> 1:20:49.200 made these American records and it really it's just irritated them. 1:20:49.240 --> 1:20:52.320 And then I remember I had done a family portrait 1:20:52.520 --> 1:20:55.640 of our roster. And I had figured out how we 1:20:55.680 --> 1:20:57.639 could at that time a two thousand three or four 1:20:57.920 --> 1:21:01.200 take Coldplay and the Beastie Boys and and Radiohead and 1:21:01.360 --> 1:21:03.680 Kylie and put them in and McCartney and put them 1:21:03.680 --> 1:21:05.439 in a photo and put it in billboard. And that 1:21:05.560 --> 1:21:09.160 just made them crazy, because that's they didn't think of 1:21:09.160 --> 1:21:13.640 the idea. And so there was constant friction, and I 1:21:13.680 --> 1:21:17.360 think it ended when they you know, realized they were 1:21:17.360 --> 1:21:20.240 going to sell the company and they were showing a 1:21:20.280 --> 1:21:24.040 certain amount of profit and to the new buyer, they 1:21:24.080 --> 1:21:27.439 were showing a program of merging the company and cutting 1:21:27.479 --> 1:21:31.120 the overhead. And I guess the new buyer didn't really 1:21:31.200 --> 1:21:33.439 do the due diligence because they were in the I 1:21:33.439 --> 1:21:37.360 don't know, bar business and refrigerator business and they yeah, 1:21:37.400 --> 1:21:40.920 and they thought, hey, yeah. Then they then they merged 1:21:40.960 --> 1:21:43.639 the company and they just thought they could run as 1:21:43.640 --> 1:21:46.880 many records and create as much profit, and they didn't 1:21:46.960 --> 1:21:50.840 realize that they needed, you know, two companies. And also 1:21:50.880 --> 1:21:53.280 at the same time, after you know this, there was 1:21:53.360 --> 1:21:58.080 this like you know, perfect storm going on where Radio 1:21:59.000 --> 1:22:03.280 was you know, consolidating, and it was very much about 1:22:03.479 --> 1:22:07.519 call out research. So that was tightening and retail was 1:22:07.600 --> 1:22:10.640 going away, and I just don't And I think you 1:22:10.680 --> 1:22:13.760 had instead of being right on your records because the 1:22:13.760 --> 1:22:16.880 profit structure, structure would be a certain way it now 1:22:17.120 --> 1:22:19.479 you had to be right about fifty of the time. 1:22:19.600 --> 1:22:23.200 And all of that together with a new president who 1:22:23.479 --> 1:22:25.920 you know, was had also a kind of I think, 1:22:26.560 --> 1:22:30.439 uh focus in music that wasn't broad enough to carry 1:22:30.600 --> 1:22:34.519 that company. It all just came crashing down. Okay, let's 1:22:34.600 --> 1:22:37.479 jump ahead ten years today. What do you see as 1:22:37.520 --> 1:22:39.719 the state of the music business and the music today. 1:22:42.600 --> 1:22:46.040 I mean, it's hard for me to to evaluate the 1:22:46.120 --> 1:22:48.680 business portion of any of it really because I'm not 1:22:48.800 --> 1:22:52.000 really astute. I'm not looking at it like like you 1:22:52.040 --> 1:22:54.400 look at it. I like to ask you that question 1:22:54.439 --> 1:22:57.639 and I read what you say about that stuff. Um. 1:22:57.680 --> 1:22:59.680 I mean, I'm happy that music is thriving, and I'm 1:22:59.680 --> 1:23:03.040 happy that that that the companies are healthy because there's 1:23:03.120 --> 1:23:08.599 a another resurgence of of money coming in from streaming 1:23:08.640 --> 1:23:12.400 and people are, you know, buying their records again, you know, 1:23:12.760 --> 1:23:15.200 finding news to buy the same music again in new music. 1:23:16.560 --> 1:23:19.479 So I think it's healthy. I think the unfortunate thing 1:23:19.800 --> 1:23:25.360 is that everyone can make a record and everyone can 1:23:25.400 --> 1:23:28.360 put one out and it doesn't matter. So there's so 1:23:28.439 --> 1:23:31.200 much you know, we live in this age of of 1:23:31.520 --> 1:23:34.880 you know, of hyper information and short attention span and 1:23:34.960 --> 1:23:37.720 being bombarded with stuff, and it's just trying to get 1:23:37.760 --> 1:23:41.240 above the noise. And so that's just in you know, 1:23:41.320 --> 1:23:44.360 in our in our business. And you know, at one time, 1:23:44.439 --> 1:23:45.840 I think to make a record, you have to be 1:23:45.880 --> 1:23:48.439 really good because you have to get somebody who's going 1:23:48.439 --> 1:23:49.960 to invest a coup hundred thousand gollars to put you 1:23:49.960 --> 1:23:53.400 in the studio, and you know, and then you have 1:23:53.479 --> 1:23:56.320 to have somebody who had vision to make you into 1:23:56.400 --> 1:24:00.080 the thing, to create that alchemy that we we know 1:24:00.439 --> 1:24:02.720 is the brand of the band that we love and 1:24:02.760 --> 1:24:05.160 that we want to buy the T shirt of. And 1:24:05.520 --> 1:24:12.880 I I don't I don't know. Um. If you know, 1:24:12.920 --> 1:24:19.200 if it's possible, uh to to to affect popular culture 1:24:19.240 --> 1:24:25.519 through rock music the way it was you know, let's 1:24:25.560 --> 1:24:31.800 say in the last twenty years before the the the 1:24:31.840 --> 1:24:34.280 age of the smartphone, where you have all human knowledge 1:24:34.280 --> 1:24:38.200 in your hand. Um. I mean, obviously the bridge between 1:24:38.280 --> 1:24:41.320 hip hop and popular culture and pop music is there. 1:24:41.600 --> 1:24:44.360 It affects other forms of the of the culture. It 1:24:44.400 --> 1:24:48.519 affects you know, fashion and and art. But you know 1:24:48.640 --> 1:24:50.880 the thing that I love and that would be, you know, 1:24:50.960 --> 1:24:54.200 more rock music. I don't. I think the bridge between 1:24:54.360 --> 1:24:57.320 alternative culture and pop culture may be broken. It may 1:24:57.320 --> 1:25:03.320 be broken forever. Okay, so today you consider yourself a manager, Well, 1:25:03.360 --> 1:25:06.559 you know, I never really consider myself I'm now. I 1:25:06.560 --> 1:25:08.599 don't know if you I would say that per se 1:25:08.680 --> 1:25:12.440 because I'm not looking for management clients. I have relationships 1:25:12.479 --> 1:25:16.040 with a few artists that I love that I work with, 1:25:16.520 --> 1:25:18.960 and some of it's as a producer, some of it's 1:25:18.960 --> 1:25:20.800 as a producer and a manager, some of it's just 1:25:20.840 --> 1:25:24.920 as a manager. But really, I you know, I wanted 1:25:24.960 --> 1:25:27.479 to make this film and I and I had this 1:25:27.560 --> 1:25:29.479 idea and I made this film. Before we get to 1:25:29.479 --> 1:25:33.880 the film, so what are those acts you're you're working with. Well, 1:25:33.920 --> 1:25:39.439 at the moment, it's Jacob Dylan, Fiona Apple, who I've 1:25:39.600 --> 1:25:45.280 known and for twenty five plus years, Cat Power, and 1:25:45.479 --> 1:25:48.479 a singer named Jade Costrinos who was in the band 1:25:48.479 --> 1:25:51.920 called Edward Sharpen the Magnetic Serios. Okay, so let's get 1:25:51.920 --> 1:25:54.519 back to the movie. So you're sitting on the couch. 1:25:55.080 --> 1:25:58.439 You see this movie the model Model Shop, Model Shop, 1:25:58.479 --> 1:26:02.400 excuse me, and then you decide, okay, uh, we should 1:26:02.439 --> 1:26:05.519 make a record of these old tunes. Continue the story 1:26:05.560 --> 1:26:13.839 from there. When we start getting into the songs, I 1:26:13.920 --> 1:26:16.840 realized the ones that I'm picking, in the ones that 1:26:16.960 --> 1:26:20.680 Jacob is liking, all have stories behind them. And there 1:26:20.680 --> 1:26:25.040 are stories that are kind of integral to these bands. Uh, 1:26:25.680 --> 1:26:28.400 and I just want to know. I want to go 1:26:28.520 --> 1:26:31.759 find out the you know, the what's behind the songs 1:26:31.840 --> 1:26:33.880 from the people and you know. So we start to 1:26:33.920 --> 1:26:38.000 make this record, and you know, in making the record, 1:26:38.000 --> 1:26:42.479 because it was a record first, and I get these songs, 1:26:42.520 --> 1:26:45.040 and I'm trying to find a way to make, like 1:26:45.160 --> 1:26:47.439 in the other records that I made something modern out 1:26:47.439 --> 1:26:50.320 of something old. How do I synthesize this into something 1:26:50.360 --> 1:26:54.120 that's just not tracing paper bar band Hollywood in bar 1:26:54.200 --> 1:26:58.439 band shit. And I had this idea of turning these 1:26:58.439 --> 1:27:01.600 songs into duets, mainly with women, so that when you 1:27:01.720 --> 1:27:06.479 hear never My Love or you hear Expecting to Fly, 1:27:07.720 --> 1:27:13.000 that those were songs, you know, sung by bye bye 1:27:13.400 --> 1:27:16.479 by a bunch of guys or a guy, and I 1:27:16.560 --> 1:27:19.200 turned it into a conversation between a man and women 1:27:19.479 --> 1:27:21.920 you showed me done by the Turtles written by mcgwyn 1:27:21.920 --> 1:27:25.479 and Clark, but when cat Power and Jacob sing it, 1:27:25.479 --> 1:27:28.120 it becomes a conversation and it's a great one. And 1:27:28.200 --> 1:27:32.440 so you know, that gives me the the the impetus 1:27:32.479 --> 1:27:34.640 to kind of go further and then take some of 1:27:34.640 --> 1:27:37.240 the arrangements of some things like you would hear in 1:27:37.320 --> 1:27:39.880 a in a bird song and take the twelve string 1:27:39.920 --> 1:27:41.960 and put it in a mom momas in Papa song, 1:27:42.160 --> 1:27:45.439 and you know, take this string line that you would 1:27:45.439 --> 1:27:47.320 hear here, and you know, and and mix and matches. 1:27:47.360 --> 1:27:50.519 It gives you the feeling that you're there in that place. 1:27:50.960 --> 1:27:52.880 But it's not when you go listen to the original 1:27:52.960 --> 1:27:54.599 next but it it's like, whoa, this is way different, 1:27:54.640 --> 1:27:56.280 but it feels the same. So how does that have fun? 1:27:56.560 --> 1:27:58.160 That to me was interesting and it was fun, and 1:27:58.200 --> 1:28:00.240 that's so I started. And then at that point I 1:28:00.280 --> 1:28:03.040 was like, well, this is something bigger because the collection 1:28:03.120 --> 1:28:08.479 of songs suggests this time and around the time that 1:28:08.560 --> 1:28:12.599 we were doing this, we first of all, we read 1:28:12.600 --> 1:28:16.320 your column about going back. Okay, that's number one, um, 1:28:16.439 --> 1:28:19.400 and you know that becomes you know, part of our 1:28:19.520 --> 1:28:24.520 our film. But um, it it, you know it. It's 1:28:24.560 --> 1:28:28.160 the fiftieth anniversary of the birth of the Birds, and 1:28:28.240 --> 1:28:31.880 it really starts with the birds, as you know, when 1:28:31.880 --> 1:28:36.040 the Birds electrified folk music in Nive that that changes 1:28:36.080 --> 1:28:38.240 everything for everyone. And I don't know, you know, and 1:28:38.280 --> 1:28:40.679 when we start to make the movie, we think about 1:28:40.720 --> 1:28:44.640 the fiftieth anniversary of that, and so I say, you know, 1:28:44.680 --> 1:28:48.679 I start to write out a treatment and find somebody 1:28:48.680 --> 1:28:51.760 to I mean, so find somebody to believe enough to 1:28:51.960 --> 1:28:54.200 to finance it. And I wasn't going to make the film. 1:28:54.479 --> 1:28:57.640 I had this treatment and I went to very accomplished 1:28:58.280 --> 1:29:01.240 documentary filmmakers and I said, look, yeah, it was like 1:29:01.240 --> 1:29:04.320 a rock critic giving them some rock critic theory bullshit. 1:29:04.439 --> 1:29:06.200 And I said, look, this is an important thing. And 1:29:06.240 --> 1:29:08.120 they're like, nah, I don't want to do it now. 1:29:08.160 --> 1:29:10.840 I need two million dollars. That's like, okay, wait a minute, 1:29:10.840 --> 1:29:14.400 all right. So somebody said to me, look, you hired 1:29:14.479 --> 1:29:18.400 video directors. You ran all the marketing and you know advertising, 1:29:18.439 --> 1:29:23.400 and your company you make records. You know these people, 1:29:24.040 --> 1:29:26.519 some of them. You make the movie. I said, I 1:29:26.600 --> 1:29:30.200 can't make I'm not a director. They said, sure you are, 1:29:30.280 --> 1:29:31.840 you can do it. Because I didn't want to find somebody. 1:29:32.200 --> 1:29:34.600 They said, you just get this. So I called this 1:29:34.680 --> 1:29:37.880 producer and I said, you know, get me a DP 1:29:38.160 --> 1:29:40.000 that I can talk to, that I can show them 1:29:40.040 --> 1:29:43.960 the phya and get me an editor and then then 1:29:44.040 --> 1:29:46.760 let's see what we can do. And and you know, 1:29:47.160 --> 1:29:50.879 that's that becomes the you know, the beginning of of 1:29:50.880 --> 1:29:55.479 of making the film. But you know, the the that 1:29:55.600 --> 1:29:58.320 period we started by thinking it's going to be the 1:29:58.360 --> 1:30:01.200 electrification of folk music and how people migrate from New 1:30:01.280 --> 1:30:03.880 York to l A. And that's the story. And as 1:30:03.960 --> 1:30:06.720 I find out, as documentary filmmakers later told me, you 1:30:06.760 --> 1:30:08.600 found out everything we all find out, which is the 1:30:08.640 --> 1:30:12.120 story is not where you think it is, but the 1:30:12.160 --> 1:30:14.559 story is somewhere else, and you find the story. And 1:30:14.600 --> 1:30:18.920 what I found by talking to these people was that California, 1:30:19.120 --> 1:30:24.040 which was the ultimate horizontal city, the promised land, the 1:30:24.120 --> 1:30:27.559 land of freedom where anything is possible. Um, you know, 1:30:27.680 --> 1:30:32.160 you could go and and and and electrify folk music. 1:30:32.320 --> 1:30:35.960 And so for me, I used it, expecting to fly 1:30:37.320 --> 1:30:40.559 as a sort of frame for this film. Uh, the 1:30:40.600 --> 1:30:43.240 beginning obviously the beginning of the end. And and really 1:30:43.280 --> 1:30:45.320 to me, that song represents a few things. I mean 1:30:45.360 --> 1:30:47.960 that song, you know, it's about the end of a relationship. 1:30:48.960 --> 1:30:53.080 But even in the title, it's like it suggests, no 1:30:53.120 --> 1:30:55.720 matter how outlanded your dreams are, you think they're going 1:30:55.760 --> 1:30:57.960 to come true, which is like that era. And as 1:30:58.000 --> 1:31:01.320 we know, that kind of boundless optimism never lasts. But 1:31:02.320 --> 1:31:05.519 you know, that period, it really is there. What the 1:31:05.560 --> 1:31:07.479 story that I find is that there's really three periods 1:31:07.479 --> 1:31:10.639 of Little King. There's the period where they were Roger 1:31:10.720 --> 1:31:14.040 mcgwinn sees the hard Day's Night, sees the twelve string 1:31:14.240 --> 1:31:18.840 takes the twelve string electric tosting electrifies folk music, and 1:31:19.439 --> 1:31:22.640 every band comes to California because they are supposed to 1:31:22.680 --> 1:31:24.880 be the American beatles that got the velvet collars, they 1:31:24.960 --> 1:31:28.360 got the whole thing. And and that period of being 1:31:28.400 --> 1:31:31.479 in a band, you know, which is explored in the film, 1:31:31.840 --> 1:31:35.840 is really about multiple singers and multiple songwriters and that 1:31:35.880 --> 1:31:38.360 collective energy that they all saw in a Hard Day's Night. 1:31:38.400 --> 1:31:40.360 Hey we're traveling around. Hey, look isn't this great? We're 1:31:40.360 --> 1:31:43.280 like our little gang and they all come here and 1:31:43.360 --> 1:31:46.320 that period ends, and and in the film you really 1:31:46.360 --> 1:31:49.160 find out, you know, Michelle tells you it ends partly 1:31:49.240 --> 1:31:53.599 because she liked Danny and John, and you know, Crosby 1:31:53.640 --> 1:31:56.920 tells you that the Birds are you know, and because 1:31:56.960 --> 1:31:58.639 he's as he says, he was an asshole, and it's 1:31:58.640 --> 1:32:01.120 sort of tied in some ways to him wanting to 1:32:01.120 --> 1:32:04.559 put Tryad on the Bird's record and they going back 1:32:04.560 --> 1:32:06.799 because they want to have a hit. And Steven Stills 1:32:06.800 --> 1:32:11.120 tells you, okay, we we were had a wealthy material, 1:32:11.360 --> 1:32:13.880 but it was divergent directions and in the end, you know, 1:32:14.080 --> 1:32:17.120 there's Neilly Young in the end, you know, as on 1:32:17.160 --> 1:32:19.960 the search for the individual, because after the band period, 1:32:20.320 --> 1:32:24.000 there is the psychedelic period, and after the psychedelic period, 1:32:24.439 --> 1:32:26.920 it's a retrenchment back to country rock and roots. And 1:32:26.960 --> 1:32:28.760 I'm telling you things you're you already know, Bob, and 1:32:28.800 --> 1:32:31.719 it're written about, but it becomes the search for the individual. 1:32:31.800 --> 1:32:36.040 So it's not Buffalo Springfield. It's Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young. 1:32:36.080 --> 1:32:38.639 And so for me, I wanted to explore the idea 1:32:38.760 --> 1:32:41.880 of the band and that period and the thing that 1:32:42.400 --> 1:32:45.240 you know, I think with the film, I was sitting 1:32:45.240 --> 1:32:49.120 there and because the contemporary record business had rejected me 1:32:49.920 --> 1:32:53.439 in that moment and I left Capital, I was rejecting it, 1:32:53.680 --> 1:32:58.160 and so I looked back at this film, you know, 1:32:58.240 --> 1:33:00.960 and I just thought to this time when things were 1:33:01.080 --> 1:33:04.080 much simpler and it wasn't so complicated, and I didn't 1:33:04.080 --> 1:33:07.840 have corporate governance and ship on top of me, and 1:33:07.840 --> 1:33:14.000 and so it sent me to to somehow interpret and 1:33:14.040 --> 1:33:17.360 pay homage to that music that I loved that I 1:33:17.439 --> 1:33:21.240 listened to on w ABC and Cousin Brucey and w 1:33:21.439 --> 1:33:23.000 m c A. And I was a good guy, and 1:33:23.080 --> 1:33:26.120 I heard good vibrations and I heard California dreaming, and 1:33:26.160 --> 1:33:29.080 I thought, God, there's this place. I'm in my little 1:33:29.560 --> 1:33:33.160 concrete park playing stoop ball and stickball, and it's cold, 1:33:33.200 --> 1:33:36.439 and that place that that looks like it does and 1:33:36.640 --> 1:33:38.519 it's a mad, mad, mad mad world with the big 1:33:38.640 --> 1:33:41.400 w and it's beautiful by the sea, and you know, 1:33:41.520 --> 1:33:44.800 and and that's what I wanted to celebrate and the 1:33:44.880 --> 1:33:47.600 place we live when time was simpler. Because if you 1:33:47.640 --> 1:33:50.720 squint your eyes and you drive around l A, you know, 1:33:50.800 --> 1:33:52.920 and you're always on the edge of nature. There's a 1:33:52.960 --> 1:33:56.799 coyote in your right, there's you know, and it's that 1:33:56.800 --> 1:33:59.760 that thing between the city and nature. And I just 1:34:00.000 --> 1:34:02.839 need to find a way to give my own creative 1:34:02.880 --> 1:34:06.840 interpretation like those writers did of that time, and this 1:34:06.880 --> 1:34:11.240 film really represents that for for me. Okay, anybody who 1:34:11.280 --> 1:34:18.599 refused to be interviewed, not really. I mean, each one 1:34:18.600 --> 1:34:22.479 of those bands is a documentary in itself. The Beach Boys, 1:34:22.520 --> 1:34:25.160 the Bird, the Moms and Pop is the Buffalo Springfield. 1:34:25.240 --> 1:34:27.519 I mean, you know, they all and even some of 1:34:27.520 --> 1:34:31.759 those individual members. So to try to, you know, build 1:34:31.920 --> 1:34:36.360 a singular narrative that takes you from the rick and 1:34:36.400 --> 1:34:39.880 back or twelve string through that sort of period of 1:34:39.880 --> 1:34:42.519 the bands, you know, to why bands break up, to 1:34:42.640 --> 1:34:47.479 the search for the individual, you know, kept it narrow 1:34:47.560 --> 1:34:51.360 and there's no one really else that we wanted to 1:34:51.360 --> 1:34:53.840 talk to. You know. Again, we we used Neil Young 1:34:53.880 --> 1:34:56.800 as the sort of metaphor at the end for the 1:34:56.800 --> 1:35:00.080 search for the individual. You know, when Steven tells you 1:35:00.760 --> 1:35:03.559 right leaves the band gonna be on TV to be 1:35:03.560 --> 1:35:06.080 on the Johnny Carson Show, and you know, and expecting 1:35:06.120 --> 1:35:09.120 to fly was really his warning sign and that, you know, 1:35:09.160 --> 1:35:12.000 and that is also that is also the song that 1:35:12.120 --> 1:35:15.080 I feel like his arrangement with Jack Nietsi was a 1:35:15.240 --> 1:35:18.519 kind of nod to a day in the life on 1:35:18.640 --> 1:35:22.200 Sergeant Pepper. It's their California version of that, I think, 1:35:22.800 --> 1:35:26.840 and and that ushers in the psychedelic period in a sense. 1:35:26.880 --> 1:35:29.439 And and so that's why, you know, that's the end 1:35:29.439 --> 1:35:31.400 of the movie, and that's the place. How does get 1:35:31.400 --> 1:35:35.160 in the movie, Well, we were trying to find also 1:35:35.360 --> 1:35:40.360 the the the arc of how people were influenced in England. 1:35:40.720 --> 1:35:42.519 You know, we knew the Beatles, look, I mean in 1:35:42.560 --> 1:35:46.360 the film it you know, you learned that that bells 1:35:46.360 --> 1:35:49.799 are Rimney by the Birds influenced George Harrison to write 1:35:50.240 --> 1:35:53.639 if I Needed Someone, which goes on Robert Soul, which 1:35:53.680 --> 1:35:56.599 Brian Wilson tells you in the film he heard which 1:35:56.600 --> 1:35:59.880 makes him write pet Sounds, which the Beatles here and 1:36:00.040 --> 1:36:05.680 day write Sergeant Pepper. And in in doing this, you 1:36:05.680 --> 1:36:07.720 know the other people that came from England at the time. 1:36:07.760 --> 1:36:09.920 Obviously Cream was you know, one of the biggest bands 1:36:09.920 --> 1:36:11.920 in the world at that time English band, along with 1:36:11.920 --> 1:36:15.799 the Beatles and the Stones. Uh, And we just wanted 1:36:15.840 --> 1:36:19.320 to we knew he had a connection to California and 1:36:19.360 --> 1:36:24.519 to Laurel Canyon. And when he tells you that that 1:36:24.880 --> 1:36:27.720 head Sounds was the thing that the Cream was aspiring 1:36:27.720 --> 1:36:30.519 to do. I mean, I've never heard that before. And 1:36:30.560 --> 1:36:34.439 then he tells you that Let It Rain was inspired 1:36:34.439 --> 1:36:38.920 by Questions, And Stephen tells you that that that Questions 1:36:38.920 --> 1:36:41.880 was inspired by since you've asked, so the film is 1:36:41.880 --> 1:36:45.200 really more about the echo of people's ideas than it 1:36:45.240 --> 1:36:47.120 is about the canyon. The canyon is the place that 1:36:47.320 --> 1:36:50.000 the canyon is the place where it takes where it 1:36:50.000 --> 1:36:52.639 all sort of happens. But you know, and the other 1:36:52.680 --> 1:36:55.599 thing is that that we shot a lot of stuff 1:36:55.680 --> 1:36:58.200 in the rooms where these things were recorded, and we 1:36:58.320 --> 1:37:01.439 recorded in those rooms, and you know, to me, having 1:37:01.439 --> 1:37:04.799 worked there a lot in my life with Macy, with Fiona, 1:37:05.120 --> 1:37:10.439 with the Wallflowers, I I always was so humbled by 1:37:10.479 --> 1:37:13.559 those rooms and the feeling I got when I went 1:37:13.560 --> 1:37:15.840 in there, and they were always beautiful to me, and 1:37:15.880 --> 1:37:18.080 so I wanted to shoot them in a way that 1:37:18.120 --> 1:37:21.680 they could be beautiful because Bob, I don't know if 1:37:21.680 --> 1:37:25.240 they're going to be here in ten years, because the 1:37:25.400 --> 1:37:29.840 with the you know, with Hollywood and the expansion of Hollywood, 1:37:30.479 --> 1:37:32.960 a single story building on Sunset's worth a lot of 1:37:33.080 --> 1:37:35.280 land value, and I just don't know if those guys 1:37:35.320 --> 1:37:37.360 are going to be able to hold out when somebody says, 1:37:37.400 --> 1:37:40.800 here's fifty million bucks. And you know, so remember that 1:37:41.040 --> 1:37:43.680 the human voice. What we love about the human voe, 1:37:43.720 --> 1:37:47.000 what we love about Sinatra, you know. Besides the tone 1:37:47.040 --> 1:37:50.400 of his voice is what happens when an echo chamber, 1:37:50.439 --> 1:37:52.600 When that voice is projected an echo chamber, that's what 1:37:52.680 --> 1:37:56.200 gives a voice depth, you know, and in some ways, 1:37:56.240 --> 1:37:59.799 you know, changes the tonality of things in those rooms. 1:38:00.360 --> 1:38:02.360 It's sunset sound. I mean, you know, some of them 1:38:02.360 --> 1:38:04.439 are gone. You know, Columbia Studios is gone. You know, 1:38:04.520 --> 1:38:06.680 gold Stars, Brian tells you he loved the echo of 1:38:06.720 --> 1:38:09.000 gold Star. That's gone, but those rooms still have it. 1:38:09.560 --> 1:38:11.599 In fact, I ran into I was at book soup 1:38:11.680 --> 1:38:15.400 and I ran into Jimmy Page, who I only no peripherally. 1:38:15.520 --> 1:38:17.559 I don't really know him, but I ran into him 1:38:17.560 --> 1:38:21.080 a couple of times, and we were talking about we 1:38:21.080 --> 1:38:25.120 were talking about Bells are Rimney because he had done 1:38:25.479 --> 1:38:27.960 a I think he recorded a version of Bells round 1:38:27.960 --> 1:38:29.080 the end. We were talking about and he said, you 1:38:29.080 --> 1:38:33.040 know the bells from me that guitar Mcquin's guitar that 1:38:33.200 --> 1:38:36.160 sounds like the echo chambered studio on its sunset sound, 1:38:36.200 --> 1:38:39.080 doesn't it? And you know, so for him and for 1:38:39.200 --> 1:38:42.080 Mick and Makers to to have that specific a sense 1:38:42.120 --> 1:38:44.960 about it, like it was a Strata barius, you know, 1:38:45.040 --> 1:38:49.040 I has a specific guitar. Is is something powerful? So 1:38:49.240 --> 1:38:52.559 you know, Echo in the Canyon is you know, hopefully 1:38:52.640 --> 1:38:55.519 a documentation of of of a great moment in Los 1:38:55.520 --> 1:39:00.479 Angeles history. Okay, Brian Wilson is surprisingly loose see it 1:39:00.560 --> 1:39:02.920 in your movie? Did you just get them when he 1:39:03.000 --> 1:39:05.599 was locked on? Or was he loosened the whole time 1:39:05.600 --> 1:39:09.960 you interviewed him. Well, I'll tell you. When we went 1:39:10.040 --> 1:39:13.040 to talk to Brian, I had never met him, and 1:39:13.120 --> 1:39:15.479 even though I had you know, rand Capital for seven 1:39:15.560 --> 1:39:18.080 years and we put out sounds of the summer and stuff. 1:39:18.120 --> 1:39:20.960 But I said to somebody who was friends with him, Hey, 1:39:21.439 --> 1:39:23.719 you know what, what what should I do here? Because 1:39:23.920 --> 1:39:26.479 you know I worshiped the guy and you know, I 1:39:26.479 --> 1:39:28.479 mean and Bob. When you think about it, the Beatles 1:39:28.520 --> 1:39:31.439 had George Martin, and George Martin was the arranger. The 1:39:31.479 --> 1:39:34.360 Beach Boys had Brian Wilson. That was all in his head. 1:39:34.439 --> 1:39:38.800 He was standing there with those you know, incredible musicians, 1:39:38.880 --> 1:39:42.120 string players, the Wrecking Crew adults, and he was his 1:39:42.320 --> 1:39:45.080 kid with these ideas. So I just, you know, the 1:39:45.080 --> 1:39:49.120 the magnitude of of that I had to kind of, 1:39:49.720 --> 1:39:53.759 you know, put aside to get to capture the stuff 1:39:53.760 --> 1:39:55.640 on film. And I said to somebody, hey, when we 1:39:55.680 --> 1:39:59.680 talked to him, you know what, what what do we do? Like? 1:40:00.200 --> 1:40:01.840 What you like? And what is it? And he said, well, 1:40:01.840 --> 1:40:05.680 you know, Brian, he loves food, you know, don't you know, 1:40:05.760 --> 1:40:08.439 don't just launch into some stuff like talk to him. 1:40:08.439 --> 1:40:11.880 I said, okay, So when Brian came to the set, 1:40:12.800 --> 1:40:15.880 he sat down and you do the interview, and I said, 1:40:15.960 --> 1:40:17.960 and you know, he knew I had worked there. You know, 1:40:18.120 --> 1:40:20.040 somebody told him i'd worked there. And I said, hey, man, 1:40:20.080 --> 1:40:22.200 you you work at the studio and he goes, oh yeah. 1:40:22.520 --> 1:40:25.759 I said you like chicken? He goes, I love chicken. 1:40:27.120 --> 1:40:29.360 I said, you know, this is this chicken place called 1:40:29.439 --> 1:40:32.720 al Wazire Chicken. You know this down the street. You 1:40:32.760 --> 1:40:35.479 ever had it? He no. I go, oh man, this 1:40:35.560 --> 1:40:37.200 is the best. I used to eat this stuff every day. 1:40:37.200 --> 1:40:40.200 This is the best chicken in Hollywood. And he was like, oh, 1:40:40.680 --> 1:40:43.280 we had we did ten minutes on Alba's here Chicken 1:40:43.760 --> 1:40:48.160 and you know, and then luckily, you know, he didn't 1:40:48.200 --> 1:40:50.920 have to answer for the fiftieth time how you know 1:40:51.040 --> 1:40:54.880 how genius the arrangement and good Vibrations was okay, but 1:40:54.960 --> 1:40:57.600 you know they're playing and I forget the song. I 1:40:57.680 --> 1:41:00.800 just wasn't made for these times, right, And he says, uh, 1:41:00.840 --> 1:41:04.040 you know what key? He immediately knows what key and 1:41:04.080 --> 1:41:06.439 what they're playing. It not a change. It's like, you know, 1:41:06.479 --> 1:41:09.720 it's like a lightning striking from the sky. Well, I 1:41:09.760 --> 1:41:12.080 don't hope Brian well enough to tell you if this 1:41:12.160 --> 1:41:14.920 is true, But you know, maybe he just doesn't want 1:41:14.920 --> 1:41:17.040 to talk to everybody, so he goes to that. You know, 1:41:17.160 --> 1:41:19.360 if he wants to talk to you, he'll talk to you. 1:41:19.400 --> 1:41:21.960 And if he's doesn't, he'll just kind of say, well, 1:41:22.040 --> 1:41:24.080 I'm Brian, and then I'm not going to give it 1:41:24.080 --> 1:41:25.920 to you. Well, actually a new movie is coming out. 1:41:26.120 --> 1:41:29.200 Interview with Brian Wilson, the editor Jason Fine of Rolling 1:41:29.200 --> 1:41:32.320 Stone Shirt goes around in a car. I'll save the 1:41:32.320 --> 1:41:35.920 story for him, but making the movie, Okay, what are 1:41:35.960 --> 1:41:40.800 two things you learned that you didn't know? That I 1:41:40.840 --> 1:41:43.559 have to have a lot of respect for filmmakers because 1:41:43.640 --> 1:41:49.680 it is a incredibly difficult job, and that I probably 1:41:49.880 --> 1:41:52.200 could not have done it in any point in my 1:41:52.280 --> 1:41:54.759 life if I had not done every job in a writer, 1:41:55.120 --> 1:41:58.400 in a record producer and a musician and an executive, 1:41:58.439 --> 1:42:01.000 because of what it takes to really piece it together. 1:42:01.160 --> 1:42:05.759 So you know, I also learned that the film business 1:42:06.080 --> 1:42:10.800 is UH is a difficult place, and music business is 1:42:10.880 --> 1:42:15.640 like a playground that I can go on. And but 1:42:15.720 --> 1:42:17.160 that would be a different riff. You know. The way 1:42:17.160 --> 1:42:20.760 I always say is, you know, you could everybody can 1:42:20.800 --> 1:42:23.280 listen to a record and whether the person be ten 1:42:23.760 --> 1:42:27.120 or seventy five, they'll say, well, had a good beat, 1:42:27.120 --> 1:42:28.960 and I could dance to it. But you put a 1:42:29.000 --> 1:42:31.720 five year old in front of a TV show and say, well, 1:42:31.760 --> 1:42:34.680 the plot wasn't believable. I didn't like that. Everybody's got 1:42:34.680 --> 1:42:37.600 a damn viewpoint in the film business, never mind the 1:42:37.640 --> 1:42:40.599 money in the distribution. I will tell you that there 1:42:40.640 --> 1:42:45.040 were people who said to me, just put the concert footage. 1:42:45.280 --> 1:42:47.519 What is all this stuff with the thing with the eck? 1:42:47.760 --> 1:42:51.200 Come on? And I was like, oh god, I do 1:42:51.320 --> 1:42:55.200 remember this. I remember when I you know, it reminded 1:42:55.240 --> 1:42:58.879 me of a moment UH when I had first produced 1:42:58.960 --> 1:43:02.839 Shadow Boxer and Fiona and I went to meet Donnie 1:43:02.840 --> 1:43:06.040 Ironer and I had the demo there to you know, 1:43:06.160 --> 1:43:08.280 to get to get the funding to do to do 1:43:08.320 --> 1:43:10.920 the record. We end of the office and Donnie said, 1:43:11.800 --> 1:43:16.080 that's fantastic. This is just like visions of Love, Mariah Carrie. 1:43:16.400 --> 1:43:18.160 You know, visions that's what you need to make this. 1:43:18.200 --> 1:43:19.640 You need to make this. You don't listen to them, 1:43:20.160 --> 1:43:23.479 I need to make visions of love. And Fiona looked 1:43:23.520 --> 1:43:26.280 at me like with horror on her face as we 1:43:26.280 --> 1:43:28.320 were walking out of there, and I, you know, because 1:43:28.320 --> 1:43:30.679 I had said, oh, okay, yeah, it's just like ah 1:43:30.720 --> 1:43:32.559 six eight, it's a waltz all so yeah, I see 1:43:32.560 --> 1:43:35.040 where you're going with this. Yeah. Yeah, And you know, 1:43:35.080 --> 1:43:37.120 I walked out the office and to me like what 1:43:37.200 --> 1:43:38.720 and I was like no, no, no no, no, no, no no. 1:43:38.800 --> 1:43:40.360 We just tell him, yes, we just get the money. 1:43:40.400 --> 1:43:43.120 What do we want? You know. But the same thing 1:43:43.320 --> 1:43:45.080 in the film business, you know, when you're trying to 1:43:45.120 --> 1:43:48.880 get money from people, you just you know, unfortunately, you 1:43:48.960 --> 1:43:50.360 have to be right. I mean, you know, you have 1:43:50.400 --> 1:43:52.920 to have something that has success because because if you're wrong, 1:43:52.960 --> 1:43:55.720 they never talked to you again. Luckily, in the music business, 1:43:55.760 --> 1:43:58.320 you know, I people made money every time I asked 1:43:58.400 --> 1:44:00.640 them for money and they get give me money to 1:44:00.680 --> 1:44:04.000 do things. Um, I was only doing things, and I 1:44:04.160 --> 1:44:07.080 thought I could, you know, make something interesting. But the 1:44:07.120 --> 1:44:09.840 film thing is very was was very tough, and because 1:44:09.840 --> 1:44:13.840 it takes more money, and and you you know, when 1:44:13.880 --> 1:44:18.400 you make a song as a producer, you listen down 1:44:18.560 --> 1:44:20.759 three minutes, you know what you got, You go to sleep, 1:44:20.840 --> 1:44:22.960 you wake up the next day, you listen three minutes. 1:44:23.560 --> 1:44:25.720 You get to a certain point when you're making a film. 1:44:25.800 --> 1:44:28.240 You have to watch the hour and a half film 1:44:28.280 --> 1:44:31.559 to know what's going on. And in the course of 1:44:31.600 --> 1:44:33.559 making this film, there were things that I really wanted 1:44:33.560 --> 1:44:35.680 to cover. I wanted to cover the sunset strip and 1:44:35.760 --> 1:44:37.679 love in the beginning of garage rock. And I wanted 1:44:37.680 --> 1:44:40.320 to cover the Monkeys because they were you know, Hollywood 1:44:40.360 --> 1:44:44.439 interpretation of the Beatles. And and you realize that as 1:44:44.479 --> 1:44:47.599 the narrative is being developed, and as you're you're sitting there, 1:44:48.000 --> 1:44:50.360 somebody becomes an elbow and it becomes too long, and 1:44:50.400 --> 1:44:52.840 it could be two minutes, but you've got to watch 1:44:52.840 --> 1:44:55.960 an hour and a half all the time to really 1:44:56.000 --> 1:44:58.000 get it. Just like a song, you know, when you 1:44:58.080 --> 1:45:00.679 think the bridge is too long or turn and it's 1:45:00.720 --> 1:45:03.880 so you think you watched it, I have to say 1:45:04.400 --> 1:45:07.840 five hundred. I mean, it just it's what it's what 1:45:07.960 --> 1:45:10.000 it takes. And when you're doing the sound, and when 1:45:10.000 --> 1:45:12.240 you're doing the mix and you're doing dialogue and you 1:45:12.320 --> 1:45:14.320 have to do then you have to do the the 1:45:14.439 --> 1:45:17.320 underscore and the dialogue and the some of the effects 1:45:17.320 --> 1:45:19.439 that you're using, and you know, then the mix, the 1:45:19.439 --> 1:45:22.439 mix changes things. So you know, it's like it's like 1:45:23.080 --> 1:45:26.880 three D record making. You know, it's not five one. 1:45:27.080 --> 1:45:28.759 You know, it's not a five one mix of record 1:45:28.800 --> 1:45:31.479 because you've got picture and you and and you've got 1:45:31.479 --> 1:45:33.479 the color of the picture, and you know all the 1:45:33.560 --> 1:45:35.360 time you've got old footage and you want to try 1:45:35.400 --> 1:45:39.280 to blend things. And so I love the process of that. 1:45:39.520 --> 1:45:41.840 I love being able to create it. I I love 1:45:41.880 --> 1:45:43.600 that somebody gave me the opportunity and gave me the 1:45:43.640 --> 1:45:45.080 money to do it. And I hope I can make 1:45:45.120 --> 1:45:49.360 their money back for them, Like would you make another movie? Well, 1:45:49.400 --> 1:45:54.599 I have the rights to to uh to another film 1:45:54.840 --> 1:45:57.760 and and to another story, another music story, and I 1:45:57.960 --> 1:46:04.040 and I'm a little beat up to beg for three years. 1:46:04.040 --> 1:46:06.400 Well yeah, you know so, I but I do want 1:46:06.439 --> 1:46:08.920 to do it. I mean, the miraculous thing about this 1:46:09.160 --> 1:46:13.360 film is that somebody decided they liked it and they 1:46:13.400 --> 1:46:16.559 were going to put it at the Cinerama Dome, and 1:46:16.840 --> 1:46:18.479 you know, and that's where the arc Light wants to 1:46:18.479 --> 1:46:21.360 show him in the arc Light. They you can't really 1:46:21.600 --> 1:46:23.920 tell them what to do. They know they have the 1:46:23.960 --> 1:46:27.280 best movie theater in America. And you know, obviously the 1:46:27.360 --> 1:46:29.600 Landmark has a you know, has a great game has 1:46:29.640 --> 1:46:32.559 a great theater here too. So I am just, uh, 1:46:33.880 --> 1:46:37.479 you know, not shocked, but but really in awe the 1:46:37.520 --> 1:46:41.000 fact that the place that premiered Apocalypse Now and e 1:46:41.240 --> 1:46:45.679 T and Star Wars uh, and it's the premier movie 1:46:45.720 --> 1:46:48.519 house in America. It's eight hundred seats. It's when you 1:46:48.560 --> 1:46:52.280 go in there, it's incredible that they wanted to show 1:46:52.320 --> 1:46:54.240 the film there and premiere the film there. So I'm 1:46:54.360 --> 1:46:59.040 that's Ma's And then how long untill people the rest 1:46:59.040 --> 1:47:02.000 of the country can see? Uh? It opens in New 1:47:02.080 --> 1:47:05.760 York had May thirty one, after that at the at 1:47:05.800 --> 1:47:08.639 the Angelica and at the Landmark of Town, and then 1:47:08.680 --> 1:47:12.360 it goes to San Francisco, San Diego, Chicago, Boston and 1:47:12.400 --> 1:47:15.479 all the cities in June fourteen one, and as of 1:47:15.560 --> 1:47:18.320 now it's a it's at fifty cities. But the one 1:47:18.400 --> 1:47:26.040 good thing about what's happening on if this is relevant, uh, 1:47:26.400 --> 1:47:30.320 the band is going to play music that night. After 1:47:30.800 --> 1:47:33.759 the performance, they're gonna we're gonna do music four nights 1:47:33.960 --> 1:47:36.880 in the in the cineramadon which they've never done four 1:47:36.960 --> 1:47:39.679 nights in a row. And on one of those nights, 1:47:39.680 --> 1:47:42.280 Steven Stills is going to play, and Cat Power's gonna play, 1:47:42.280 --> 1:47:45.840 and Jacob's gonna play, and it's it's it's gonna be. Uh, 1:47:45.920 --> 1:47:49.160 it's gonna be a great celebratory event with the old 1:47:49.200 --> 1:47:52.479 and the new. Okay, you've been wonderful, Andy. You know 1:47:52.520 --> 1:47:54.360 we could really go on for hours. You've done a 1:47:54.400 --> 1:47:57.880 good job of telling your story and keeping it in interesting. 1:47:59.120 --> 1:48:01.760 That's the Andy s leader, writer and director of the 1:48:01.800 --> 1:48:04.040 new film Echo in the Canyon, and you've heard in 1:48:04.080 --> 1:48:07.759 the podcast all the other things he's accomplishing the music business. Andy, 1:48:07.840 --> 1:48:10.840 thanks for coming. Thank you, Bob. Okay, until next time, 1:48:11.200 --> 1:48:13.080 it's the Bob Left Sets Podcast.