1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob left That's Podcast. My 2 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: guest this week is the andys Later. You know him 3 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: as a manager, a record company executive. Now he's got 4 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: another feather in his cap. He is the writer and 5 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: director of the new movie Echo in the Canyon. Andy, Hi, Bob, 6 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: Good to see you man. Okay, so how'd you come 7 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: up with the idea for this film? Well, I was 8 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: a journalist, you know, in the late seventies and eighties 9 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 1: of rock Critic, and the idea of the of people 10 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: listening to each other and these records being traded back 11 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: and forth was always there. But you know, you come 12 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: to a point in your life where you sort of 13 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: reflect back on what you've done, as you know, in 14 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: an attempt to go forward. And that moment came for 15 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: me when I was looking at this film. I had 16 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 1: just left Capital, which we will describe as fired and uh, 17 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: and I saw this film called Model Shop. Okay, just 18 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: to stop there for a secure because that's featured in 19 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 1: the film and you talk about it, but it was 20 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: kind of hard for me to google it. And the 21 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: reason I asked this is how did you find it? 22 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: Jacob and I were sitting on my couch trying to 23 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: figure out what we were doing. Jacob Dilan and I 24 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: was sitting on my couch and and we saw this 25 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: thing on TCM. So it was completely random. And you know, 26 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: in the in the film, we start seeing all these 27 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: places where we would go all the time, and it 28 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: was like, you know, the farmers market and in Libreya 29 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: and Santa Monica and and it just looked beautiful. It 30 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: looked like and it was not you know, shot in 31 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: the nine sixty seven by a French director named Jacques 32 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: Demy and and it reminded us of, you know, the 33 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: reason that we came here in the beginnings of the 34 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: music scene. You know, you never know how something's going 35 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: to inspire you, and so for sure, and so the 36 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: sight of that made us think of music. And so 37 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: we said, oh, you know, you know, you know the birds, 38 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: you know that bells of Rimney. I love it. And 39 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: we started talking about all these songs, and I said, 40 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: let's let's go, what if we do a record of 41 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: these songs? And Jacob was like, well, which songs? And 42 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: then we got out of guitar and we started listening 43 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: to the songs and and that, and then it evolved 44 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: from there. Okay, do you play the guitar? How? Well, well, 45 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: I've been playing since some fourteen. And Peter Buck from 46 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: r M and I had a band. How did they 47 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: come together? Well, we were the only two guys at 48 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: Longstreet Hall at Emory University that had guitars, and and 49 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: I had a Carlo Rebelli stratocaster, which was the set 50 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 1: cheap Samash version. You know, I had a Hendrix white 51 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: and and Peter had a real Fender stratocaster. And so 52 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: we would jam and you know, in our in our 53 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 1: dorm and and it's funny because we would, you know, 54 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: we would play like in the midnight hour, and you 55 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: know when you're jam with somebody, I play chords and 56 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 1: then you play lead, and then you play chords, and 57 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: I believe and everything Peter did ounded like last Train 58 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: to Clarkson, and he made a career out of it. 59 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: You know. Okay, but when did you realize this was 60 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: not your path? Well? I you know, it all goes 61 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: back to the hot Tuna story, Bob. I mean, our 62 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: audience is not here as part of that story. Well 63 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: that's a good story. So in nineteen seventy five, my 64 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: friend Larry Dale and I, who were freshman member university, 65 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: wanted to go see Hot Tuna play and they were 66 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: playing at the Gore Ballroom in in Atlanta, and we 67 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: U said, look, we gotta go down there at five o'clock. 68 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: We gotta get online early because we want to be 69 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: in the front. So we got there at five o'clock 70 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: and it looked like nobody was there. I thought they 71 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: canceled the show. Maybe that's how they do it in Atlanta, 72 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: but at least in the seventies. So we went. We 73 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: went around to the back and and we saw these 74 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: boxes that said Jefferson Airplane on them, and we said 75 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: to this guy, hey, are those official Jeffer Jeffers boxes? 76 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: And the guy said yeah, want to lift them up 77 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: those stairs? And I said could we? So Larry Dale 78 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: and I we lift the boxes up the stairs, and 79 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: you know, we load their gear in, and I say 80 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: to the guy, hey, do you think if we come 81 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: back after we could we could carry these boxes out. 82 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:18,119 Speaker 1: The guy go sure, So we're all static we're lifting 83 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: Jefferson NEVNY boxes. Anyway, after at the end of the night, 84 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: we helped them load their gear and we say, look, 85 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: you guys are playing at the Academy of Music in 86 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: New York. Do you think you would get us in 87 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 1: next week if we come and help, you know, help 88 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: you load those boxes? And said, yeah, look, if you're there, 89 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: sure we'll get your X sage. Because the Vinny, the 90 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: guy who was the road, he was the guy named 91 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: Vinie Delbono when he was from New York. And then 92 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: we became friendly and and you know, got drunk together. Anyway, 93 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: we go to New York and I am standing backstage 94 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: and I say to Vinny, you know you guys don't 95 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: have any tour jackets, like you don't have any satin 96 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: jackets that everybody has satin jackets. Now I have an 97 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 1: idea to make a satin jacket. If I give you one, 98 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: will you show it to you him? And he says yeah, sure. 99 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: So the next day I go to Paragon Sporting Goods 100 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 1: on seventeen Street. I go downstairs and say, hey, I 101 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 1: want to make a baseball jacket. Can you point me 102 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: in the direction to the guy who does that? Point 103 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: me downstairs and I say to the guy, look, I 104 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: want to do it like San Francisco giants clus I 105 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: wanted black statin jacket. I want Arne stripes and I 106 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: want yourma, this is the name on the back end. 107 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna draw you the logo and this is what 108 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: the logo looks like. And can you have the guy 109 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: do that and send it to me? And I give 110 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: the guy the money and he sends me the the 111 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: prototype in Atlanta, and I send it to Vinnie and 112 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: I get a phone call and he says, Yama loves 113 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,119 Speaker 1: the jackets. We want twenty five and you can ship 114 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 1: them to me. And I said, no, no no, no, I 115 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: want to bring him out. And so so of course 116 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 1: I whack up the price of the jackets to pay 117 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: for my planet and give me a little spending money. 118 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: And I go out there and they take the jackets. 119 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: But what that leads to is, you know, a a 120 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: kind of friendship with Hot Tuna. And when Hot Tuna 121 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 1: breaks up, I ask if I can interview you Ama 122 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: from my school paper, and I interview this time. Are 123 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: you already writing for the school paper? I think I 124 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: wrote a record review, you know, and for the Emery 125 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: Wheel and Yourma lets me interview him, and I, you know, thought, 126 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: this is it. This is the pinnacle. You know, I've 127 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: got the hot tune to break up story and I 128 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 1: and I send a letter to Jim Hanky, who was 129 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: a music eatitor a rolling Stone at the time. So 130 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: I've got the exclusive if you want it. You know, 131 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: I sent one of those schmucky letters anyway, which which 132 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: didn't get returned, but anyway, so that started my path 133 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: in you know, in in journalism, and as it relates 134 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: to Peter Buck when r E. M. You know Peter, 135 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 1: we graduated, he moved to Athens, he started this band, 136 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: and I wound up writing the first story about them 137 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: in the Atlanta Journal Constitution because I eventually went to work. 138 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 1: There was very lucky another the you know, strange story 139 00:06:54,360 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: of how I got there. Well, so I was writing 140 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 1: for the Emery Wheel and I had all these clippings 141 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: and I was at a party and there was a 142 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: guy named Roger Pavey. He was the entertainment editor of 143 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: the Atlanta Journal. And he said to me, I, you know, 144 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: we were at this party and and I had this 145 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: weed and I said, hey, you know, you want to 146 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: you want to smoke some weed with me? And the 147 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: guy I didn't really know who he was, and he said, yeah, 148 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: you know, and it turned out this is who he was. 149 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: And I said, look, you know, I'm writing for my 150 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: school paper. I'd like to do some reviews for you. 151 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: Can I send you my clippings? And he said yeah, yeah, 152 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: s our kids sand So I got my clippings together. 153 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: I sent him to Roger. I didn't hear anything. Three 154 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: weeks later, I called it. I trump at the paper. 155 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: I say, hey, Dandy Slater, I sent you my my clippings. 156 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: You remember, he said, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Hey you 157 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: got any more of that weed? I said yeah, yeah, 158 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: he goes right, We'll meet me at manuel S tavern. 159 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: You know, we'll, you know, we'll talk about this. So, 160 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: needless to say, they started signing me is and how 161 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: much was a review worth actually, you know, I mean 162 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: at that time forty dollars was like a hundred parts. 163 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,679 Speaker 1: So it was good. And that event that they liked 164 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: my writing, you know, And and so they started giving 165 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: me more assignments. And and one of the assignments that 166 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: I got was, you know, to cover to cover the 167 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: Athens music. So you and I wrote this story about R. E. M. 168 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: And then eventually wrote the first story in Rolling Stone 169 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: about R. E. M. The New Faces piece. But so 170 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: that's really the let's go a little bit slower. So 171 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: when you're at emery, do you know you want to 172 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: be a journalist? No? I actually, you know, there were 173 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: guys at the time working at Columbia who were giving 174 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: records to me for free, like the guys who became 175 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: you know, big executive, or John Faggott who was a 176 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: head of promotion at Capital he worked there, and guy 177 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: named Alan Orman and a guy named Ed Nwf was 178 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: still Warner Brothers. And those guys were giving me records. 179 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: You remember, this is nine teen seventy five seventy six. 180 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: The record businesses, as you know, a colorful, wonderful place 181 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: to probably, like you know, the tech industry is now, 182 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: and to me it just all seemed shiny. Mean I 183 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: was studying, like you know, political science. My parents wanted 184 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: me to be a lawyer. I mean, you know, I 185 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: would have said my major was like the Grateful Dead, 186 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: because all I really wanted to do was follow them 187 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: around and any you know, and find any tributary that 188 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: that that Jerry had gone down, whether it was Merle 189 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: Haggard or you know, or Hank Williams or any of 190 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,679 Speaker 1: the great stuff I learned from listening to those records. 191 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: But um, you know my it was really the journalism 192 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: became the the outlet for me to express the things 193 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 1: I felt about music, and which I, by the way, 194 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: don't think I was very well expressed, but you know 195 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: it led me to to being able to get inside 196 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: and and see this world that was mystical to me. Okay, 197 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: but before you fell in with the hot tuna, did 198 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: you believe you could make it as a musician. No, Okay, 199 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 1: so we're having fun in college. I mean, you know, 200 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: making it as a musician. I just you know, I 201 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: thought I could play things that other people had had 202 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: had played. You know, I think there's there's several kinds 203 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: of of accomplished musicians. You know. There are guys who 204 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,719 Speaker 1: can absolutely mimic what they hear and go on the 205 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: road and make your record come to life. And then 206 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 1: there are are guys in a studio that you work 207 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: with who you know, can hear melody and hear counterpoint 208 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 1: and bring sections to life and whatever instrument they are, 209 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 1: you know, whatever you need. And I clearly was not 210 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: that so as somebody who was just mimicking what I heard, 211 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: I kind of felt like you know, tracing paper fake. 212 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: So I really didn't do any but all through the 213 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: ensuing forty years, you've continued to play the guitar. Well, yeah, 214 00:10:54,600 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: I actually I have a I have a band which uh, 215 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: which which we play well? Anyway, with a band, you know, 216 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: how often do you play? Well, we were playing every 217 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: Tuesday night, you know, at this bar and uh and occasionally, 218 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: you know, I'm a little apprehensive about talking about this 219 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: band because it's because it's turned into well, okay, in 220 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: one or we that was at a point in my 221 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: career where I had had it was a transitional place. 222 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: So I had been a manager, and I had managed 223 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: the Beastie Boys and Lenny Kravitz and co managed Don Henley, 224 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: and all of that went away and I sort of 225 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: started over. Okay, just to be clear, that went away 226 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: because well, I think each of those situations, you know, 227 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: being a manager sometimes has a lifespan, and sometimes you 228 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: know your partner it is one thing, and the partner 229 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:05,599 Speaker 1: it is that it just it just you know it 230 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: it evolves that way, you know. In the In the 231 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: case of Lenny Kravitz, I think he was used to 232 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: having a very hands on, day to day personal manager 233 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: that would do those kinds of things, and for me, 234 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,599 Speaker 1: management was was as a partnership was a creative partnership, 235 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: you know, as much as it was a business partnership. 236 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: And I think Lenny was just getting used to having 237 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 1: somebody other than the guy he had been friends with 238 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: forever and I wasn't really going to do that. Um, 239 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: you know, the with the Beastie Boys. That was. That 240 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: was one of the most amazing, you know, times of 241 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: my life because I was around the making of Paul's Critique, 242 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: which was legendary, which is just an incredible record, and 243 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: they you know, were and the surviving members still are, 244 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: you know, just so brilliant. Um. And that was I 245 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: think that record was difficult because it was coming off 246 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:08,599 Speaker 1: the heels of a huge success at def Jam, a 247 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: licensed Hill and and you know, they had expectations of 248 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: what they wanted to do, and they made a record 249 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: that was completely groundbreaking and outside of any uh any 250 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: place to fit in radio to drive it. I mean, hey, ladies, 251 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: you know is one of the great singles and that 252 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: artful synthesis of all of those styles that are in 253 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: that record. Uh, at that time just didn't was not 254 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: a follow up to Hit five. You're as party as 255 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: you know and as you so eloquently in your column 256 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: stated many times, you know, radio listeners often want to 257 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 1: hear something that sounds familiar to them, and it drives 258 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: the business of radio. And if you don't fit into 259 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: that format, unless you have a very powerful uh machine 260 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: behind you that can keep record on the radio till 261 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: the test, well at least at that time, you're gonna 262 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: have three weeks and you're gonna be done. And in 263 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: the case of Paul's boutique, you know, Capital was trying 264 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 1: very hard to mimic the success of License to Ill 265 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: and Hay Ladies did not sound like Fight Fear right 266 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: at the party, and the band was also in a 267 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: transitional place where they were starting to play instruments and 268 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: touring in the way they had before was impossible. So 269 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: all of that, you know, led to a kind of 270 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: one album, Uh, you know, Lifespan for me, and you 271 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: know we remained great friends. But I'm off on a tangent, 272 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: but cool. You know that digression is this splice of life, 273 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: you know that that led me to a place where 274 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: you know, and and Henley and I had a I mean, 275 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:52,239 Speaker 1: I I learned so much. I mean, I would say 276 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: of what I know about making a record and being 277 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: uh a manager in in the record is really from Dawn. 278 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: So tell me us, tell us two things you learned. Well. 279 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: I learned about the attention to detail. And I learned 280 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: that in making something you must examine and re examine 281 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: and be sure before you put it out into the world. 282 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: And I also learned to approach the the the putting 283 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: those things out in the world with dignity and grace. 284 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: And he was always somebody who was smart, articulate, and 285 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: and you know, very thorough about about how he did 286 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: what he did. And I had a lot of respect 287 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: from him. You know, It's funny because I was a 288 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: journalist at a time in the late seventies. What was 289 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: very fashionable at that time was to sort of deconstruct 290 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: the thing that the Eagles and phillywood Mac had built 291 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: and punk rock and that you know, ethic was was 292 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: the sign of the times. And when I met the 293 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: Eagles and interviewed them and went on the road at 294 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: them in nineteen seventy nine, I found Don to be 295 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: this really well read, you know, well spoken, um uh writer. 296 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: He was like a writer's writer to me. He was 297 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: a you know, the lyricist. And so when I eventually 298 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: came to work with with with him as a solo artist. 299 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: You know, I said, my friends who are journalists will really, 300 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: you know, really like you if you just talk to them, 301 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: because you know, it's clear that you're a man of letters. Um. 302 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: And that was, you know, part of the beginning of 303 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: our you know, friendship and working relationship that started when 304 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: so I can't I went to I left journalism. Let's 305 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: see what the eagles came through town in Atlanta and 306 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: psalters tell your experience there. Well, getting an interview from 307 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: the eagles was, you know, was the genesis for the 308 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 1: newspaper wanted a story on the eagles, and I I 309 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 1: when I, you know, all these things happened to you 310 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: in your life and you just, you know, you don't 311 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: really know where they're gonna lead you. But I was 312 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 1: on an airplane when I was thirteen, going to Washington, 313 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 1: d c. From my cousin's high school graduation, and there 314 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: were two guys sitting behind my grandparents and I and 315 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: I one of them was wearing a Live Dead T 316 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 1: shirt and I was like, that looks like Bob Ware. 317 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: So I got up on my chair and I said, hey, 318 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: are you you famous? Ebob ware and the guy says 319 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 1: to me, no, man, I've known more famous than you. 320 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: I'm Eric Anderson, I'm a songwriter. And the other guy 321 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,360 Speaker 1: next to him said, well, I'm Michael Kleffner and I'm 322 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 1: the program director of w n a W. And he 323 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: had this big handlebar mustache. Anyway, I later, you know, 324 00:17:55,680 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: years later, after the Hot Tuna, you know, Rhody Vinny 325 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: and you know Escapade, and I became friends with those 326 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 1: guys they met, you know, they're friends who worked for 327 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: the Grateful Dead. And I was luckily lucky enough, you know, 328 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 1: at nineteen or twenty to be backstage at the Academy 329 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: Music when the Dead played, I think it was. I 330 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: think it was the Academy Music still then um when 331 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 1: they played, and there was this guy with the handlebar 332 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: mustache back there, and I was like, well, that's the 333 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: guy I saw when I was thirteen. And I said, hey, man, 334 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: I met you with my parents and you're at w 335 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 1: n W. And he said, no, I'm head of promotion 336 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: for Atlantic regoritarys my card and hey, give me a call. 337 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: I was right write, so I wrote him all I kept, 338 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,120 Speaker 1: you know, I kept hocking him when I was in college. 339 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 1: I would write them, you know these letters. Hey, I 340 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: really want to work for Atlantic Records. Hey, you know 341 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: I really like the record. He says, Hey, I'm a 342 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: journalist now. Hey, then I saw I had you know, 343 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: this is nineteen seventy seven and seventy nine. I started 344 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: working for the newspaper and they needed an interview with 345 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: the Eagles. And I read in Billboard that he went 346 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: to work for Irving Azof and front Line Management. So 347 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 1: I called it Michael Kleffner and I say, Michael, I'm 348 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: now in Atlanta at this big paper. I need to 349 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: interview the Eagles. He's all right, I'll introduce you assaulters 350 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: pray for this the Eagle. So so I call up 351 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: Larry So. I say, hey, Larry Man Slater and on 352 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: the pop music critic at Atlanta Journal, I like the 353 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: inter of the Eagles, and he says, they don't do interviews. 354 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: I gotta go by, like ship, what do I do? 355 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: I need this story? Damn it? Okay, I go I 356 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: got it. Okay, called Laric back Larry. Hey, it's Anny 357 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: Slaria pop musical advantage of Hey you doing yeah? Yeah 358 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,919 Speaker 1: what I said? Look, I don't want interview Eagles. I 359 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 1: want to interview you. I want to interview you, and 360 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: I want to interview with Irving, and I want to 361 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: interview the crew, and I want to do a story 362 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: about what it takes bring the Eagles to Atlanta. Because 363 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 1: I was thinking, Okay, I'll get out there. I'll get 364 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: on the road shoulders, maybe don fell to Will walked 365 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: by it out of the cope machine and ask him 366 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: three questions and I'll string together a story. So he 367 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 1: just okay, you can come meet us in whatever with Durham, 368 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 1: North Carolina. I said, okay, So I get the photographer, 369 00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: Me and Rick Diamond, the photographer. We go. We drive 370 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: out there in our car. We go to we go 371 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 1: see the Eagles. You know, We're talking to Irving and 372 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: talking to Larry, and I'm hanging around and I'm trying 373 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: to talk to Felder. Irvings is exactly what I'm doing. 374 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: He says, hey, listen, I see what you're doing. He says, okay, yeah, 375 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: I like you guys. I'll tell you what if you 376 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: let Henley approve his quotes that he says to you, 377 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 1: you can interview the Eagles. I said, well, is this 378 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: a breaking journalistic No, it's not really it. I'm just 379 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: gonna let him, you know, the fact check his quotes. Okay, 380 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 1: I said, okay, so everything. Lets me into the Eagles, 381 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: I I. He says, you come to the three E party. 382 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 1: It gives me. It gives me a three E pen. 383 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: I go to this party. It's nineteent nine. It's in 384 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: the top of a hotel suite. It looks like Playboy 385 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 1: After Dark. I'm like, man, this is cool. UM twenty 386 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: two and so I you know, and iView Henley Irving 387 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,199 Speaker 1: sits there middle of the interview and he says, you 388 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: know what, I like this guy now. I like the 389 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,719 Speaker 1: Eagles and seven. I mean, I love this Rotto, I think. 390 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: And I was there from the beginning. I'm a huge 391 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: Eagan even though it was unpopular. I don't know, it's 392 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: kind of like, uh so many other racks were. It's 393 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,399 Speaker 1: turning around. Yeah. But you know when you listen to 394 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: even the architecture of sound of Desperado, and you listen 395 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: to the reprieve of the duel and dal and Repres, 396 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: and you hear the banjo and you hear the room sound, 397 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: and you realize what they created. I mean, it's really 398 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: brilliant and So for me talking to Don about that stuff, 399 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,719 Speaker 1: I wasn't as interested in this petticultural war between New 400 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: York and l A was going on. I was interested in, 401 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 1: you know, the ideas behind the songs and not so 402 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: much the lifestyle. And I think Don responded to that, 403 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: and that's eventually how we became friends. But they came 404 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: to Atlanta. They liked the story. And I was standing backstage, 405 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: uh during the encore with Irving and I said, you know, 406 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: you guys don't have tour books. You should really have 407 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 1: a tour book, and you should take me and Rick 408 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: on the road with you, and Rick can take the 409 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 1: pictures and I can write the copy. And Irving said, 410 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 1: that's a good idea. Get get it. You see that 411 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 1: car over they're just getting that car. I go, okay, 412 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 1: So me and Rick we get in the car and 413 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: the next thing I know, there's twelve cars and we're 414 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: pulling out of the Omni and we're at an airport 415 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: and Irving says, get on that plane. I said, my 416 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 1: car is at the Omni. What do I do? You say, 417 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: don't worry, we know the Omni. Next thing I know, 418 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: I'm in I'm in Cleveland. Rick and I have no luggage, 419 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 1: only the clothes we're wearing. And we were on the 420 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: road at the Eagles, and Rick eventually took the pictures 421 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: and I wrote the copy which Psalters edited and it 422 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 1: turned into nothing, but you know, they did the tour 423 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: book and and you know, that was the beginning of 424 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: my friendship and relationship with Larry and Irving. And ultimately 425 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: they did introduce me to you know, Yawn Winner and 426 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: and I eventually became a writer for Rolling Stone and 427 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 1: for Billboard and for People and really, you know, they 428 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: they like gave me the imper mater, like this guy's cool. 429 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: You can you can talk to him, and he's not gonna, 430 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: you know, jerk you around for sensationalism. So you know 431 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: that was just that. Okay, So how do you make 432 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: the transition from writer to business person? Awkwardly? Um? I 433 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: So Salters had a job at frontline and his job 434 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 1: was the frontline, was the management, front line manager. He was, 435 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: you know, even though Cameron Crow very astutely in an 436 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: article referred to Larry as vice president in charge of 437 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 1: whatever Irving tells him to do, he actually was, you know, 438 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: the head of the album covers and publicity. And you know, 439 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,439 Speaker 1: it was a junior manager. And so when when Irving 440 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 1: went to run m c A Records in n two 441 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: maybe two or three, Larry went with him, and they 442 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,679 Speaker 1: were looking for someone who could take Larry's place. And 443 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: now I had interviewed all of the fiance and the 444 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,400 Speaker 1: main thing was I think Henley, Yeah, he liked me, 445 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: and and I had it. You know, they were trying 446 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: to find somebody I guess that they could trust. And 447 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: Michael Rosenfeld and Howard Kaufman, uh, I had known, and 448 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: they said, and I was going to try to move 449 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: to California because my girlfriend at the time was going 450 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: to be a doctor and she was going to do 451 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: her residency at Kaiser Permanente and I didn't want to 452 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: lose her, right which this was, you know, one of 453 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: the one of the few times I chose love over business. Um. 454 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 1: And I was leaving journalist because I actually I didn't 455 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: think I was any good to be honest. I mean 456 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: I wasn't going to be you know, like David Frick 457 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: or Charles m. Young or Hunter Thompson, any the guys 458 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: that I felt were great, you know, or Tom Wolfe, 459 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: the great Cholis you know, so I said that I 460 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 1: should really get out of this, and so I got 461 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: this job with with Frontline Management, doing Larry's job, and 462 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 1: so it was you do, You're gonna be in charge 463 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 1: of publicet and you're going to be in charge of 464 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,640 Speaker 1: album covers and there's a new thing called MTV starting 465 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: and you you know you can do that because that's 466 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 1: all Larry did. And and so you know, my my 467 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: transition to businessman is really around two things. One is 468 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: I'm gonna make videos. And the first one of the 469 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 1: first videos I make is with Henley and I had 470 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: seen this French There was a French artist named Exel 471 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: Bauer and there was a song called Cargo. And I 472 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 1: saw this video because a friend of mine, Gayle Sparrow, 473 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,239 Speaker 1: who actually worked at MTV, sent to mysues to work 474 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: for Epic Records, and and I started to Don and 475 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: I said, hey, don you know this guy, this this 476 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: this thing looks really cool. Maybe we should give him 477 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: boys a summer and like do something with this guy. 478 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: Looks like the Twilight Zone. It's cool. And he said, okay, 479 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: we'll send it to him. So I sent it to Mendino, 480 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: and Mendino, you know, love the song and he did 481 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: the video and don one video at the year that 482 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: year from that video, and then I became the manager. 483 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 1: So that was one pivotal moment for me. And from 484 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: the eighty three to about eighty five, UM, I mean 485 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 1: that was my job. Really. I was like the young 486 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,959 Speaker 1: creative guy with the head fullest crazy ideas about photography 487 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 1: and things to do, and you know, and so I 488 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: think these guys who were ten years older than me 489 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: and sort of looking to I don't know, get input 490 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 1: from somebody other than an older businessman, which Howard was 491 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,479 Speaker 1: one of the best. Learned everything from him. And so 492 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 1: that was, you know, the nature of my business thing. 493 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,959 Speaker 1: The other thing that happened in the very first meeting 494 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 1: at Frontline Management when I got there, Howard went through 495 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: the client list and there was Henley and Steely, Dan 496 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: and the go goes and boss gags and Jim and 497 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 1: Jimmy Buffett and they got to the last name on 498 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: the list and it was Warren Zevon and Howard said 499 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,919 Speaker 1: Warren Zevon, Okay, well, let's see, are eighty thousand dollars 500 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 1: in debt to the I R S. He's living in Philadelphia, 501 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: he's a drunk. He has no recordly, he doesn't want 502 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: to work. He's off the roster. And I stand up 503 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: and I go, but Howard, he's the best writer we 504 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: have on on the roster. And he goes Slater, he's 505 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: a hundred and eighty thousand dollars in death to the 506 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: I R S. Not the bank. They're gonna come after him. 507 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 1: He's a drunk, he's living in Philadelphia, doesn't want to work. 508 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: He's off the roster. And I say, but artists love him, 509 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: and maybe other people will come here. He goes, listen, 510 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: you've been here five minutes. I'll tell you what you 511 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 1: manage them? Okay, next subject? Oh great, I get the 512 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: client list like, go to my little office. Dial a 513 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: phone like, Hi, Warren's Andy Slay your new manager fulne management. Click, 514 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 1: hangs up. Man like, well that's weird. Okay, call back, 515 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: get some answering machine leaving message. Later your new manager 516 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: filily management. He like, talked about your career. Call me 517 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: back nothing, okay, Wait two days call back answering machine, 518 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 1: leave another message okay. Finally a week later, get him 519 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,479 Speaker 1: on the phone. He goes, hey, listen, I was at 520 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: the dentist today and I don't really think I can 521 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: talk to you, so just wants you call me Thursday. 522 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, one quite Thursday. Okay, Thursday comes, don't 523 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: get him on the phone. So I think, you know what, 524 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 1: I'm gonna call Peter buck Okay, I called Peter Buck up. 525 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 1: I go, hey, Peter H. Tandy, how are you doing. 526 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 1: I'm managing Warren's Eiland. He goes, you're managing what? Your manager? 527 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 1: He was just a journalist three weeks ago as well, 528 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: you know what? So I say, hey, you know, if 529 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: Warren has some songs, maybe you guys would do a 530 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 1: demo with him and we can get him a record deal. Now, 531 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 1: at that time, Aria and I think had made Murmurs 532 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: just one record, so that they were cool and just 533 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: starting out. And he said, oh man, yeah, remember how 534 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: he used to listen to Excitable Boy with it? He said, yeah, no, 535 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: I'll pick him up at the air, but we'll bring 536 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: him to Athens. Will we'll make a tape of them. Okay, great. 537 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: So then I call Gary Gersh who was at e 538 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: m I. He didn't want to do that. And then 539 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: I called Michael Austin, who just started working for his father, 540 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: had Warner Brothers and I and I had, you know, 541 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: he and I had we had met in Atlanta with Irving. 542 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: I think he was he signed a band called Riggs. Anyway, 543 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: I called Michael and I said, look, managing Warren's Evan, 544 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: will you give me some money for a demo? There's 545 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: this band R E M. They're cool. It could make 546 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: He says, yeah, yeah, I'll give you five grandmother, send 547 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: you the paper. Call walking. Next phone call warrant. I 548 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: wanted to say, a new manager from Image. How you doing. 549 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: He goes, I'm doing great. I go, you got Do 550 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: you have any songs? Because of course I got songs, kid, 551 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 1: What are you talking about. I'm a songwriter, like okay, okay, 552 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: because I got this five grand for you to make it. 553 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: You've got five grand. I need that money, give me that. 554 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: I said, No, I can't give you the money, but 555 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: maybe we can make a demo. There's this band in Atlanta. 556 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: They're really cool. They're you know, they're R E M. 557 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: And they're making their first record. You know, when you 558 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: come down to Atlanta, maybe with them and make a demo. 559 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: And he goes, fly me first class. I go, yeah, 560 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: we'll fly first class, five first class. Peter I called Peter. 561 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: Peter picks him up the airport takes him out to Athens. 562 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: Two days later, I call Peter. I go, hey, man, 563 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: how's it going. He goes, well, you know, the songs 564 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: are good. But Warren he teaches us the songs and 565 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: then he kind of takes a nap. And I'm like, 566 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: what were you guys working? Like really late? Three him no, 567 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: like three in the afternoon. I go, oh, he must 568 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: be drinking. He goes, well, I don't know, It'll be fine, 569 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: don't worry, it's I said, okay, man. He goes, tell 570 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: you what, We're gonna do a show at the forty 571 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: Water Club this weekend. You should come down. I was like, 572 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: oh great, okay. So I got my little haircut, my 573 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: little jacket, little tie. I'm now manager, you know. Go 574 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: down Athens. Go down to Athens, talk into the dressing room. 575 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: Before the show. Warren's in the corner. He sees me 576 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: and he walks away. I'm like, oh, that's weird. Maybe 577 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: it's pretty show Jeter. Maybe I'm not gonna maybe I 578 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 1: won't bother him. So they play the show and it's 579 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: all great. After the show, I see him in a 580 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: dressing me and I walked towards him, and he walks 581 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: out of the room and I'm like, that's this guy's 582 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: definitely really avoiding me. So I'm standing in the dressing 583 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: room and somebody point pats me on the back and says, hey, hey, Slayer, 584 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: you're back in Georgia. What do you do? And all 585 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: of a sudden, I feel these two arms grabbed me 586 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: and turned me around. He goes, that's who you are. 587 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: He thought it was from the I R S. I 588 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: thought I was coming after his sign because I looked like, 589 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: you know, a complete nerd. But that led to my 590 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 1: you know, relationship with Warren, which was really you know, 591 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: one of the great the great things in my in 592 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:25,719 Speaker 1: my working career. And eventually, you know, I got him 593 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,239 Speaker 1: out of Philadelphia. Why was he in Philadelphia, Well, he 594 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: had fallen in love with the DJ name Anita, and 595 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,719 Speaker 1: I think she was the inspiration for the song Reconsider Me. 596 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: But uh, I managed to get him an apartment at 597 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: the Oakwood Gardens Apartments. I was making forty dollars a 598 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: year and he was in debt to the I R S. 599 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: And he will you know, he had other issue, other 600 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: financial issues, and but I signed in this department, and 601 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,239 Speaker 1: I would get these calls from the norther was on. 602 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: It was on bar I'm Mountain exactly, so you know, 603 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 1: it was where I was like a transient kind of 604 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: place where actors were auditioning for something. Came in for 605 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 1: two days. Anyway, I got him an apartment there, and 606 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: all kinds of shenanigans were going on. He was shooting 607 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: the gun off in the department like a crazy stuff, 608 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: and you know, but eventually I realized I had to 609 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: get him a car. And you know, there was the 610 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 1: frontline management was in the Atlas Leasing building and somehow 611 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: I managed to convince the daughter of the owner of 612 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: the Atlas Leasing company to get Warren a corvette. Oh god, 613 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: so Warren had a great court. I got Warren a 614 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: great corvette, and you know, he had his apartment and 615 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: I kept giving him money and he was playing me 616 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: these songs and they were amazing, and I worshiped the guy. 617 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: I mean, he was you know, Warren Warren was really 618 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: the writer's right or he was like the He was 619 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: like the low Archer or the Philip Marlowe to me 620 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: of the l A scene, and uh, you know, and 621 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,479 Speaker 1: probably to to a lot of those guys to you know, 622 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: to Don Henley and the JD. Souther and obviously to 623 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: Linda Ronstadt. They had tremendous respect for him as a wrinter. 624 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 1: You know, all of his songs that there was never 625 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: a wasted word in one of those songs. You know. 626 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: He used to say, he said, you know, when I 627 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: go for the when Henley goes for the high note, 628 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: they give him the Grammy. When I go for the 629 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: high note, they give me the heimlich Maneuver. But eventually, 630 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: you know, I got him a record deal and eventually 631 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: helped him get sober. I mean I get him sober. Well, 632 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: I mean he these he came with all these kind 633 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: of crazy ideas he'd have, Like, you know, he had 634 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: a polaroid camera that he decided he was going to 635 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: take a polaroid of all of his prescription drugs. So 636 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: when the cops stopped me, just whip out the polaroid. 637 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 1: When he was loaded and couldn't walk the line, he 638 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: just said, look, I got the thing, you know, But 639 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: there was all these this stuff. Eventually, I think that's 640 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,799 Speaker 1: something that you know, he came to himself, and I 641 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: was just trying to find a place to to to 642 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: get him to that. Would you know, he would embrace 643 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 1: the idea of being sober. And I just remember driving 644 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,279 Speaker 1: him around to these rehabs and and he would you know, 645 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 1: I remember sitting in one rehab with him, you know, 646 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: near Fox Studios, and I forget the name of the place. 647 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 1: And you know, we were sitting there in the in 648 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: the reception room, in the intake thing, and there was 649 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: some guy in the room and he looked over. The 650 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: guy looked over at Warren and me, and he said, 651 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: I drank the lie. I drank the lie. And Warren 652 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: looked at me and he said, let's get out of here. 653 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 1: I'm not going in this place with these cucka boos, 654 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 1: you know. But eventually, eventually he got sober, and you know, 655 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,399 Speaker 1: through his sobriety eight things happened as that they do 656 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: for people who okay, So while you were there, he 657 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 1: started off eighty granted debt. Did you ever make any money? 658 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,359 Speaker 1: Did Frontline? Did ever turn around? So they made money? Well, 659 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: I will tell you something. And this is the great 660 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: thing about Howard Kaufman, who I miss every day. You know, 661 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,239 Speaker 1: Howard said to me, you got this guy back on 662 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: his feet, and you keep all the money for the commissions. 663 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: And you know, I mean people don't know what kind 664 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: of guy that guy was. You know, he was a 665 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: very tough businessman. I mean, you know, I think if 666 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: you're a promoter, you probably you know, had had a 667 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,919 Speaker 1: lot of issues with you know, with how he how 668 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,479 Speaker 1: he extracted money from you. But you know, he fought 669 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 1: first clients, and he taught me so many things. Man. 670 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 1: He taught the first thing you know, he taught me 671 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: he said, your word has to be good, because if 672 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: you tell a guy that he's got something, that's it. 673 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 1: And I never really had any contract with Howard any papers, 674 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 1: and you know, and and all of our partnerships, whether 675 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: we worked on Don Henley or the Beastie Boys, whatever, 676 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 1: whenever he said this is the deal, that was a deal. 677 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 1: And you know that's not always the case in the 678 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: music industry, as you and I know, it's so so 679 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 1: Howard was really really a huge influence, uh for me, 680 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: and uh and I miss him. But but but but Warren, 681 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: you know, but Warren didn't make money. And Warren did 682 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: get out of debt, and Warren did all the things 683 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 1: that you know people do when they get sober cleaned up, 684 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: all the Wreckage and and had and had a great 685 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: you know, second run of his of his career, and 686 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: and we we made a record with R. E. M. 687 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: For a Virgin called Sentimental Hygiene. And I I was 688 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 1: a producer that record, but when I was working on it, 689 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: I didn't know I was a producer. You know, I 690 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 1: had played music with Peter Buck and we so I 691 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,759 Speaker 1: knew like when a song was too fast, or the 692 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 1: key might have been wrong, or maybe there was too 693 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 1: many bars in the turnaround between the first chorus and 694 00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 1: the second verse, you know, things like that. And I 695 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: was just saying, hey, this sounds fast, Hey, this sounds 696 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: So I was in the studio all the time because 697 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: they were my friends, and I was saying to Warren, 698 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: I think he was going to do a song called 699 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,439 Speaker 1: Boom Boo Mancini. And I said, Warren, you know, it's 700 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: really it seems like it's a piano song. It's not, 701 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 1: you know. And so I was saying these things. And 702 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,319 Speaker 1: at the end of the record, you know, as we 703 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,320 Speaker 1: went down to the mix, you know, the engineer Nico 704 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 1: Bolos said to me, you know you're producing this record. 705 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: I said, this is what producing is. He says, yeah, 706 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 1: and so you know Warren. That was the beginning of 707 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: making three records with Warren and a career of you know, 708 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 1: working as a record producer. Taking the things that I 709 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: had learned from watching Don Henley make records, and the 710 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: things that I learned from Nico Bolis engineering records and 711 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: Greg Ladonia engineering records, and applying them to the things 712 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: that I thought I heard that I couldn't play, but 713 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 1: I could find other people to play. Okay, how does 714 00:37:52,800 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 1: it end with Warren? Well, it ends in nineteen ninety 715 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 1: one when I get to a place where I have 716 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,880 Speaker 1: a little traveling problem where I can't really leave my 717 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: room that much. You know, I was well, since you're 718 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 1: being honest about that, recalling that drugs or agoraphobia. No, 719 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: it's not a goraphobia. I mean, I'm using the metaphor there. 720 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 1: I I mean, it wasn't really that happy. You know. 721 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: I had gotten to these places where I had tremendous success. 722 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,920 Speaker 1: It seemed like on the outside, you know, I was 723 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,319 Speaker 1: managing these people, I was making this money, but inside, 724 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 1: you know, there was that just that hole, and I 725 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 1: couldn't figure out why I wasn't happy, And so I 726 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: was trying to medicate that, to to get the right 727 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,439 Speaker 1: you know, the right feeling. And really what it was 728 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,880 Speaker 1: was I just kind of needed, uh, to be sober 729 00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 1: and to not chase it chemically, to be you know, 730 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: to have a sense of serenity and and and piece 731 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 1: of myself. And and when I went to do that, 732 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:13,240 Speaker 1: because I don't think I was the kind of drinker 733 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,279 Speaker 1: or drug user that had the lampshade on your head 734 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 1: and didn't have it together. You know, I had a 735 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: job and stuff, but inside there was just a yearning 736 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,840 Speaker 1: for the noise in my head to to just get 737 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: to get lower and uh. And I couldn't figure it out. 738 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,239 Speaker 1: And so when I went to rehab, I mean, a 739 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,479 Speaker 1: couple of my friends have gotten sober and uh, and 740 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,319 Speaker 1: I said, you know, maybe this is for me. Maybe 741 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 1: I should try to do this. And and I went 742 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,680 Speaker 1: to I went to rehab, I went to a place 743 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,280 Speaker 1: in the marina. And when I went to the marina, 744 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 1: I got a phone call from Warren. You know, I 745 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 1: said to him, look, man, I gotta I gotta get 746 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 1: my ship together because it's just not happening for me. 747 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:03,600 Speaker 1: And when that happened, he said, look, man, you know 748 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,240 Speaker 1: I don't know, if I could really have a manager 749 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:12,600 Speaker 1: that's newly sober and and I said, okay, and you know, 750 00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 1: and that was it. Well, it's just thinking, do you think, well, 751 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 1: I also think at the time that there are other 752 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,799 Speaker 1: influences of other people trying to tell him a look, 753 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 1: you know, come with me. You know, that's just the way. 754 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: You know, but that's just the way it is. Let's 755 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 1: go back. So what came. So you're saying that once 756 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,360 Speaker 1: you got to rehab, all your problems go away. Well, no, 757 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,759 Speaker 1: what happens when you go to rehab is all the 758 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,360 Speaker 1: bad problem solving things go away. But then your problems 759 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,279 Speaker 1: are there, and so you have to figure out how 760 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 1: to you know, deal with your emotions, uh in a 761 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 1: way in reality, and that takes a little bit of time. 762 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 1: And you know, luckily, the the twelve step program is 763 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 1: is a really great thing because it it it gives 764 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 1: you a framework to start looking at things that you 765 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,640 Speaker 1: didn't look at. And if you know, and I was 766 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,160 Speaker 1: super cynical. I mean, I was like, look, I am 767 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,680 Speaker 1: not going to I don't want to be in any club. 768 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 1: I don't even I didn't want to join a fraternity 769 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 1: and you know, and you know, in college. But I 770 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 1: got to this room where there were a lot of 771 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 1: people of musicians who I respected, and people who were 772 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,799 Speaker 1: talking to me saying, look, man, you know you're a 773 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,280 Speaker 1: cool guy, and this is if you do this, this, 774 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 1: this is what will happen. And I was like, yeah, right, okay. 775 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:37,960 Speaker 1: But but they were smart and they were cool, and 776 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,400 Speaker 1: they embraced me, and you know, I I'm forever indebted 777 00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:45,320 Speaker 1: to those guys. Um, you know, and and and it 778 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 1: it's slowly worked. It doesn't work overnight, but it does. 779 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: But if you if you stay with it, uh, and 780 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 1: you find your own place in it, you can change 781 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,279 Speaker 1: your life. And you know, they so they tell you 782 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,840 Speaker 1: all these things are gonna happen. I fear financial and 783 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,279 Speaker 1: security is gonna be gone and you're gonna get everything back. 784 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 1: And you know, so before I got sober, as I said, 785 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: it was the manager of all those artists. And I 786 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,080 Speaker 1: had been a journalist and I had been a creative 787 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,360 Speaker 1: director and a record producer and then it all went away. 788 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,719 Speaker 1: And for four years, not a lot happened, you know. 789 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,800 Speaker 1: I mean I was managing a band that didn't really 790 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,080 Speaker 1: do much and sold forty thousand records and got the 791 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 1: deal dropped in. I was in a place where where's 792 00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,440 Speaker 1: my beautiful reward. I'm doing what they told me to do, 793 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 1: and you know, and then something very interesting happened. I 794 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,719 Speaker 1: I was always told in a you know, stay out 795 00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,200 Speaker 1: of their results. Just do the work. Do the work 796 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,160 Speaker 1: in general and life. You're not in control of the universe. 797 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,239 Speaker 1: There's an order to the universe. Just do the work 798 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,319 Speaker 1: and don't worry about what happens. I was like, what 799 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,719 Speaker 1: is that? Did you have enough money? That's well? I 800 00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:59,600 Speaker 1: mean I had a little money. I mean I had 801 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:01,720 Speaker 1: a call are that had a rip in the hood 802 00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,279 Speaker 1: that I couldn't drive in the rain. And I had 803 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,239 Speaker 1: an apart you know, one of those creepy apartments that 804 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,520 Speaker 1: people have with you know, when they're when they're in 805 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,200 Speaker 1: that situation. I mean, but I was okay. I mean 806 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 1: I was making it work. You know, you you make 807 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,279 Speaker 1: whatever whatever work. I felt I could live in a 808 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,239 Speaker 1: you know, one room in one room, as long as 809 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,239 Speaker 1: I had music and a guitar and you know, in 810 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:28,360 Speaker 1: the bed and a TV. But so this this thing happened. 811 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:32,640 Speaker 1: I Howard, you know. And the great thing about Howard again, 812 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:37,959 Speaker 1: when I lost everything, Howard said, you have an office here, 813 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,680 Speaker 1: and you'll always have an office here. And when I 814 00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:44,000 Speaker 1: went to rehab what I found out? Howard said, got 815 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:48,200 Speaker 1: everyone in the office and said, and he went to rehab. 816 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,200 Speaker 1: If I hear any of you tell anyone in the 817 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:56,799 Speaker 1: business what's happening with him, you're fired. I mean, that's 818 00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,439 Speaker 1: the kind of loyalty that guy had anyone. I came out, 819 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:01,239 Speaker 1: I didn't have a going on, and a lot of 820 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:03,480 Speaker 1: have a lot going on for for three or four years, 821 00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:11,319 Speaker 1: and then something strange happened. I had become friends with 822 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:17,040 Speaker 1: a lawyer who was representing the Smashing Pumpkins and they 823 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,480 Speaker 1: were looking for a new manager on Melancholy in the 824 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:23,799 Speaker 1: Infinite Sentens and Howard and I went to Chicago to 825 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,960 Speaker 1: have a meeting with with Billy and the band. Now 826 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 1: we go to this meeting and uh, and you know, 827 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:36,640 Speaker 1: Billy's super smart record like a record guy could have 828 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,120 Speaker 1: been one of the great It wasn't a great artist 829 00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: be one of the great record men of of today. 830 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 1: And we talked a lot about music and the things 831 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,080 Speaker 1: we liked and bands we liked and obscure stuff. And 832 00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,239 Speaker 1: Howard talked about the record business, its night and how 833 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:51,880 Speaker 1: you make money on the road, and you know how 834 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:53,759 Speaker 1: you make money with T shirts and all the all 835 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:57,439 Speaker 1: the stuff. He knew better than anybody. And we left 836 00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,719 Speaker 1: the meeting and the lawyer said to me, you got it. 837 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 1: These guys loved you, and I was like, yeah, right, 838 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:05,840 Speaker 1: is right. I'm back. I'm going to be the co 839 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,600 Speaker 1: manager of the biggest band in the world. This is 840 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:13,239 Speaker 1: the greatest thing. And two days later she called me 841 00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,279 Speaker 1: and she said, well, Andy, look they had one more 842 00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,879 Speaker 1: meeting and it was with Cliff Bronstein and they went 843 00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,800 Speaker 1: with them, and I was devastated. I mean, that was 844 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,560 Speaker 1: the point where I think all this stuff to tell 845 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:28,520 Speaker 1: him he's bullshit, Like I'm I'm doing what they tell me. 846 00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,879 Speaker 1: I'm living the good life, straight life, and I'm going 847 00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:33,759 Speaker 1: to me and doing all the things I'm supposed to do, 848 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:38,480 Speaker 1: helping other people. And where's the reward? And you know 849 00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,560 Speaker 1: I was saying this. I was in New York at 850 00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:45,120 Speaker 1: the time. It was Christmas, and my girlfriend at the 851 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,879 Speaker 1: time had a friend who had a kid, and then 852 00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,640 Speaker 1: she had a babysitter for this kid. And the babysitter 853 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:56,359 Speaker 1: I knew somebody who had made a cassette of three songs, 854 00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,799 Speaker 1: so the babysitter gave it to my girlfriend's friend who 855 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,520 Speaker 1: was in the music business, and she said, look to 856 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,719 Speaker 1: my girlfriend, I know he's really bummed out. I don't 857 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,520 Speaker 1: know I got this tape. I don't know what this is, 858 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:08,920 Speaker 1: but maybe he can do something with this. That's a tape. 859 00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,560 Speaker 1: It's something. I put the tech cassette tape on and 860 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:15,040 Speaker 1: there were three songs on it, and the girl's voice 861 00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:20,880 Speaker 1: was other worldly. And that girl was Fiona Apple. Now what? 862 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,040 Speaker 1: And so I went on, of course, to to meet 863 00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:27,520 Speaker 1: her and to produce her first record, and and and 864 00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:29,160 Speaker 1: you know, we know what happened there. She went on 865 00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,640 Speaker 1: to sell four million records. But the point of the 866 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:36,640 Speaker 1: story is if I had gotten what I wanted and 867 00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:38,880 Speaker 1: what I thought, which was to be a manager and 868 00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,360 Speaker 1: to manage the Smashing Pumpkins, I would have probably taken 869 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,360 Speaker 1: that tape and thrown it, you know, to the side 870 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:46,040 Speaker 1: or something, or just not at any time to do 871 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,960 Speaker 1: anything with it. But because I produced that record, and 872 00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:50,360 Speaker 1: then when I went on and I went on to 873 00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:56,240 Speaker 1: produce the Macy Gray record, being a producer and selling 874 00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,280 Speaker 1: between those two records twelve million records and a manager 875 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,480 Speaker 1: me to the opportunity to run capitol records. And so 876 00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,720 Speaker 1: what it teaches you is that do the work. Maybe 877 00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:08,680 Speaker 1: it's not that's not the way it's supposed to work out. 878 00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:10,640 Speaker 1: So if you get bummed out and you think, you know, 879 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:12,839 Speaker 1: I should have gotten that, maybe there's something else down 880 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,080 Speaker 1: the road for you. And you know, that's the way 881 00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,759 Speaker 1: you have to live your life, because you know, if 882 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,799 Speaker 1: you if you if you live in regret and you 883 00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,400 Speaker 1: live in the what if, so you will never get anywhere. Okay, 884 00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:27,520 Speaker 1: three questions. What happened to the girl who was going 885 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:33,200 Speaker 1: to become a doctor? The girl who was going to 886 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:38,839 Speaker 1: become a doctor? Well, this is what happened. One night 887 00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,600 Speaker 1: I came home from being on the road and I 888 00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:46,680 Speaker 1: found a parking ticket in my card five in the 889 00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,600 Speaker 1: morning at some address in Pasadena. I was like, Hey, 890 00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:52,560 Speaker 1: what is that? When? When? What is there? Probably with 891 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:56,959 Speaker 1: five in the morning. Anyway, it was at some guy's house, 892 00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:00,760 Speaker 1: and you know, um and he was a doctor. And 893 00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:05,879 Speaker 1: she eventually married the doctor, but it had two kids 894 00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,040 Speaker 1: as divorced. And and by the way, I she was 895 00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,200 Speaker 1: my high school sweetheart and I and I love her 896 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,200 Speaker 1: and owe her a lot for for not not the 897 00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:18,520 Speaker 1: least of which is you know, helping me get seven 898 00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:23,359 Speaker 1: hundred on my English achievement test. Anyway, Okay, so how 899 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:28,200 Speaker 1: did it end with managing Henley? Well, you know, I 900 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:33,960 Speaker 1: I think again it ran its course. Um, maybe a 901 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:40,160 Speaker 1: couple of things. Uh. I wasn't that together at that point. 902 00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:42,600 Speaker 1: It was at the point where I was sort of unhappy. 903 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:48,319 Speaker 1: And I also think that, you know, as I was 904 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:53,120 Speaker 1: managing Lenny Kravitz and Lenny Kravitz had a number two 905 00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:58,719 Speaker 1: hit record with it Ain't over till It's over. You know, 906 00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,960 Speaker 1: I don't think I was together enough to manage both 907 00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,520 Speaker 1: of those things myself, and I was spending more time 908 00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:10,840 Speaker 1: with Lenny, and you know, I think that also Irving 909 00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,000 Speaker 1: was coming back from being a record executive and he 910 00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:17,040 Speaker 1: was coming back to management and looked on with his 911 00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:20,239 Speaker 1: client and you know, his longtime client, and and you know, 912 00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:26,360 Speaker 1: he had every right, I think, to you know, rekindle 913 00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,080 Speaker 1: his relationship with him, or continue with the relationship that 914 00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:31,319 Speaker 1: he had with him, and put the Eagles back together, 915 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,440 Speaker 1: whatever he wanted to do. And I just think that that, 916 00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:37,200 Speaker 1: along with my not paying attention and also my not 917 00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,840 Speaker 1: being that together, probably you know, led to you know, 918 00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:44,560 Speaker 1: to to our you know, working relationship. Okay, and then 919 00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,040 Speaker 1: you we started this with the band who formed in 920 00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,840 Speaker 1: so what was that that was? After you got sober? 921 00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,279 Speaker 1: After I got sober, there was nothing going on. I 922 00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:59,960 Speaker 1: was playing at the Kivets Room in by the way 923 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,359 Speaker 1: two and three. It was happening right there was, I mean, 924 00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,200 Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell was there at one top point and and 925 00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:10,680 Speaker 1: I remember playing on a Sunday night with these three 926 00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:12,520 Speaker 1: guys and we were playing down by the river and 927 00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:14,879 Speaker 1: there were five guys in the in the room and 928 00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:18,319 Speaker 1: one of them was Rick James. And Rick, you know, 929 00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:20,840 Speaker 1: saw us playing down by the river and had his 930 00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:23,719 Speaker 1: like one year old baby in his arms. And I 931 00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:25,719 Speaker 1: could which I couldn't believe. You know, we got up 932 00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:27,800 Speaker 1: on stage and he sang down by the river with 933 00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:29,000 Speaker 1: I think he was in a band with nearly on 934 00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,440 Speaker 1: and so you know he was sort of smiling. And 935 00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:33,520 Speaker 1: but that's the kind of stuff that was, you know, 936 00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:35,920 Speaker 1: going on. And Mike Myers came once and you know, 937 00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,920 Speaker 1: people were I think Rolling Stone wrote an article on 938 00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,040 Speaker 1: like the cover of the music section. They called it 939 00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,880 Speaker 1: the Last Schmaltz, you know, the sort of rock on 940 00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,000 Speaker 1: Rye and and and all the bands that were playing 941 00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:48,880 Speaker 1: there with the Chili Peppers came there. It was like 942 00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,160 Speaker 1: a whole scene, you know, in affects it. But what 943 00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:54,200 Speaker 1: happened to me? So I was playing with these guys 944 00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:56,520 Speaker 1: and we were doing a bunch of Neil Young songs, 945 00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,520 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, you know, room was crowded, 946 00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,160 Speaker 1: there was girls, it was it was happening. And this 947 00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:04,120 Speaker 1: guy jumps up on the stage and it grabs a 948 00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:10,040 Speaker 1: mic and and he starts singing, and he sounds exactly 949 00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,799 Speaker 1: like Neil. I mean, he's got it down. So we 950 00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:15,040 Speaker 1: play a couple of songs and and it's like and 951 00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:16,919 Speaker 1: then he just runs off the stage and I put 952 00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,040 Speaker 1: my guitar down and I chased after and said, hey man, 953 00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,399 Speaker 1: who whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, where'd you come from? What's 954 00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,680 Speaker 1: going on? He goes, I sell Deli meat to the 955 00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,520 Speaker 1: Canaderas I heard you guys playing, I'm like, oh my god. 956 00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:31,360 Speaker 1: So so his name was Gary Williams. And so Gary, 957 00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,359 Speaker 1: you know, said to me at the time. He goes, yeah, 958 00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:36,200 Speaker 1: I'll come back. Let's we can jam again. So we 959 00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:40,120 Speaker 1: started playing and Gary says, you know, we should form 960 00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,440 Speaker 1: something and I can write and you play great, and 961 00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,680 Speaker 1: so we started kind of trying to put a you know, 962 00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:50,320 Speaker 1: a band together. And I'm like thirty two years old, sober, 963 00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:52,040 Speaker 1: thinking what am I doing with the rest of my 964 00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:54,080 Speaker 1: life here? So yeah, you know what I'm gonna I'm 965 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:55,520 Speaker 1: gonna be in the band. I'm gonna be the band. 966 00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:58,040 Speaker 1: And then, you know, I had a moment of clarity 967 00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:01,239 Speaker 1: at this point. I realized I wasn't that good at 968 00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,279 Speaker 1: twenty two and you know, I didn't do this with 969 00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:08,960 Speaker 1: Peterbuck and probably not good enough now at thirty two. Um. 970 00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,879 Speaker 1: And then I was starting to work with the Wallflowers 971 00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,640 Speaker 1: and and and then I thought, well, wait a minute, 972 00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,120 Speaker 1: what do I do here? So Gary said to me, look, 973 00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:18,840 Speaker 1: I know you're working with this band, the Wallflowers. You 974 00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:20,640 Speaker 1: either got to commit this thing to me. We're going 975 00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:22,160 Speaker 1: to commit to the Wallfers. And I thought, bet on 976 00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:24,000 Speaker 1: myself or bet on Jacob Doylan. I think I would 977 00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:25,920 Speaker 1: have bet on Jacob Dylan. So I we didn't. The 978 00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,840 Speaker 1: band dissolved, but later, like twenty years later, I saw 979 00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:34,439 Speaker 1: him at a at a show and and I said, hey, man, 980 00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:36,800 Speaker 1: you remember remember how we used to you know? He 981 00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:38,719 Speaker 1: I said, well, let's let's try to play again. Because 982 00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:39,960 Speaker 1: I was out of capital. I didn't know what I 983 00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:41,840 Speaker 1: was doing. And so we got the band back together 984 00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:45,840 Speaker 1: and we started playing. And and you know, it was 985 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:51,600 Speaker 1: really because I was I was dating this girl, and 986 00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:54,960 Speaker 1: and and she was playing around town, and she was 987 00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,960 Speaker 1: talking about how important all these gigs were, you know, 988 00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:03,040 Speaker 1: and you're you know, how it is right, we we 989 00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:07,520 Speaker 1: put up with these things that sometimes our our romantic 990 00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:11,120 Speaker 1: partners say, you know, because we want to be supportive, 991 00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:13,960 Speaker 1: and then we're supportive to a point. And I was saying, 992 00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,319 Speaker 1: she was saying, and it's so you don't understand this 993 00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:18,359 Speaker 1: gig we have at the I don't know what it was, 994 00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:22,799 Speaker 1: the hotel cafe. And I said, anybody can play there, 995 00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,640 Speaker 1: it's not that big deal, and and she goes, it's 996 00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,560 Speaker 1: a big deal, and I said, okay, So I called 997 00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,279 Speaker 1: up Gary said Gary, we're gonna play, and we're gonna 998 00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:35,240 Speaker 1: play every freaking place that she's playing. Okay, I'm gig everywhere. Explained. 999 00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:38,400 Speaker 1: So for like you know, a month or so, I 1000 00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:40,120 Speaker 1: just you know, I had my band and I saw, like, 1001 00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,960 Speaker 1: you know, honey, see now I'm playing their Thursday. Now 1002 00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,600 Speaker 1: I'm playing there Saturday, now I'm playing. There, I'm playing, 1003 00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,520 Speaker 1: I'm playing. But and then I thought, you know, then 1004 00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:50,640 Speaker 1: I actually thought, oh wait a minute, because well, we 1005 00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:53,040 Speaker 1: were a cover band, and we we were actually Neelly 1006 00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:54,920 Speaker 1: Young cover band, which I hope Neil Young doesn't here, 1007 00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:56,760 Speaker 1: but he's gonna hear because I just said it to you. 1008 00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:59,759 Speaker 1: But so we were playing around and I thought, you know, 1009 00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,680 Speaker 1: this is fun. This is more fun than having to 1010 00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,000 Speaker 1: like make the number for David Muttons and e M 1011 00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:10,040 Speaker 1: I fuck okay. So but you know, we did it 1012 00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,040 Speaker 1: a little bit. We played a bunch of things. We 1013 00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:14,719 Speaker 1: played in New York and I don't know. I had 1014 00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:19,880 Speaker 1: this one moment where I was walking on um it 1015 00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,120 Speaker 1: was like in the Bowery and I saw this poster 1016 00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:26,920 Speaker 1: and it said the Incredit InCred the Unforgettable Fire, uh 1017 00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:31,279 Speaker 1: a true YouTube experience. And I saw saying I went, oh, 1018 00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:35,040 Speaker 1: wait a minute, that's me. I don't know if I 1019 00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:37,920 Speaker 1: could do this, And I realized, I just I'm about 1020 00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:40,040 Speaker 1: to take the biggest nose dive in the history of 1021 00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:42,960 Speaker 1: the musical. I'm going from the CEO of Capitol Records 1022 00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:45,080 Speaker 1: to the guitar player in a cover band. What am 1023 00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:48,440 Speaker 1: I doing? So you know I quickly, you know, altered 1024 00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:52,000 Speaker 1: course that was that the other three guys who stayed 1025 00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:56,600 Speaker 1: too or is there? Everybody plays in their session musicians 1026 00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:58,640 Speaker 1: and guys play with other people. But we have a 1027 00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:00,400 Speaker 1: lot of fun when we do it. You know, still 1028 00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:04,120 Speaker 1: play like once a year. But you know, really it's uh, 1029 00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:07,480 Speaker 1: you know, we're just we're all such diehard crazy Horse 1030 00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:09,560 Speaker 1: fans and Neil Young fans that you know, we we 1031 00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:12,360 Speaker 1: love playing that music. And Gary and Gary and the 1032 00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,440 Speaker 1: singer are really great. I mean, you know, Unfortu is 1033 00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:19,520 Speaker 1: still selling Deli meats. Gary is still selling Deli meat 1034 00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:23,000 Speaker 1: at Canner's where you can find him someday and YouTube 1035 00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:26,239 Speaker 1: can join a band with him. Okay, tell us the 1036 00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:32,319 Speaker 1: story of the famous Fiona Apple video, which one the 1037 00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:34,799 Speaker 1: one in the back seat of the car criminal. I 1038 00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:37,440 Speaker 1: believe it was well that video, I mean I think 1039 00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:43,719 Speaker 1: it's uh, I think it's a it was inspired by 1040 00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:47,839 Speaker 1: the photographs of Nan Golden. Uh. If you look at 1041 00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:50,560 Speaker 1: some of those shots, that's what that is, and that 1042 00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:52,880 Speaker 1: and and that during that time. I mean, you know 1043 00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:57,319 Speaker 1: Mark Romantic, who is the director, who's a genius, I 1044 00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:02,080 Speaker 1: mean one of the great Uh. You always had a 1045 00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:07,040 Speaker 1: point of view that came from a place of art, 1046 00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:10,000 Speaker 1: never a place of commerce. You couldn't talk to me 1047 00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:14,840 Speaker 1: about selling anything. He was you know, he was a 1048 00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:21,400 Speaker 1: a very well read, uh and and learned guy in 1049 00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:25,400 Speaker 1: terms of the history of photography. And so that video 1050 00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:32,080 Speaker 1: was really based on that. UM I do remember one 1051 00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,600 Speaker 1: at one point I came to the set and it 1052 00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:37,960 Speaker 1: was shot in a lot in her house, beautiful house. 1053 00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:42,319 Speaker 1: I came to the set and Jeff Airoff, who was 1054 00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:46,359 Speaker 1: the president of the record company, he says to me, 1055 00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:49,680 Speaker 1: I gotta talk to you. You you've got to do something. 1056 00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:51,960 Speaker 1: I said, what, man, what what? Everything? This looks cool? 1057 00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:55,760 Speaker 1: Here he goes, she's in her underwear and she's selling 1058 00:56:55,840 --> 00:57:00,960 Speaker 1: and you've got to stop her. And I said, uh, okay. 1059 00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,080 Speaker 1: So I went over to the set and found it 1060 00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:05,880 Speaker 1: was like and I don't know if she's in like 1061 00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:09,600 Speaker 1: a nighty or something. And I said, uh, if you know, 1062 00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:12,920 Speaker 1: I just Jeff Aroff just said, you know, you're you know, 1063 00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:16,280 Speaker 1: you're in your underwear filming and you gotta stop. She said, 1064 00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:18,800 Speaker 1: I know what I'm doing. You tell him I know 1065 00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:22,400 Speaker 1: what I'm doing, and to leave me alone, and you know, 1066 00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:26,080 Speaker 1: and that was and and honestly I mean, you know, 1067 00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:30,920 Speaker 1: Fiona did does what Fiona wants to do always, you know, 1068 00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:33,920 Speaker 1: and I would say that nothing she does is not 1069 00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:39,120 Speaker 1: from a place that's well thought out and uh, you know, 1070 00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:43,560 Speaker 1: and and artistic and and Okay, so the sexual content 1071 00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:47,840 Speaker 1: of that we're attributing to both her and Romanic. I mean, 1072 00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:50,000 Speaker 1: I don't really when I look at that, I don't 1073 00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:51,960 Speaker 1: see it as that. I mean, it looks like a 1074 00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:54,000 Speaker 1: Calvin Klein ad. You know, it looked like the count 1075 00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:56,680 Speaker 1: cli I don't want to get whatever. My personal opinion, 1076 00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:01,040 Speaker 1: because we're jaded, perception was that it was sexualized of 1077 00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:07,160 Speaker 1: a young woman. Again, you know, I didn't see it 1078 00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:08,920 Speaker 1: like that, and I haven't looked at it in a 1079 00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:10,520 Speaker 1: long time. I would have to look at it through 1080 00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:14,600 Speaker 1: today's and say that. But really, at that time, you know, 1081 00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:19,440 Speaker 1: it was, uh, it seemed to me like a moving 1082 00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:22,800 Speaker 1: extension of the photographs of Nan Golden. Okay, let's just 1083 00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,920 Speaker 1: jump ahead, because you mentioned you produced the Macy Gray record. 1084 00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:32,040 Speaker 1: Both those acts had gigantic, gigantic success and then never 1085 00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:35,320 Speaker 1: really followed it up. Why is that. Well, Fiona has 1086 00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:36,720 Speaker 1: one of the great careers. I mean, I have to 1087 00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:39,439 Speaker 1: say her influence on modern music, you know, and the 1088 00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:45,520 Speaker 1: singer songwriter is pretty pronounced. And the records that she's 1089 00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:48,840 Speaker 1: made since then, and and you know, the second record 1090 00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:54,040 Speaker 1: is you know, I would think maybe her best record. Um, 1091 00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:58,040 Speaker 1: but they're all like you know, like I said about Zevon, 1092 00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:01,160 Speaker 1: and I would say about Johnny if you read those lyrics, 1093 00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:04,120 Speaker 1: and Bob, you should read those lyrics, there is not 1094 00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:09,320 Speaker 1: a misplaced word. And as an interpretive singer unparalleled to me, 1095 00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:12,080 Speaker 1: and you know, just look through the stuff. So I 1096 00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:15,840 Speaker 1: think whether it's someone like King Princess, a current artist 1097 00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:19,600 Speaker 1: you know, who is influenced by her, or you know, 1098 00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:24,360 Speaker 1: just her contemporaries, she stands, you know, as to me 1099 00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,800 Speaker 1: as as one of the greats. And I'm not that 1100 00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:36,360 Speaker 1: easy to impress it. I think she hasn't had another hit, 1101 00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:41,000 Speaker 1: She has a great career, She can do whatever she wants, 1102 00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:45,120 Speaker 1: She has artistic freedom, she can play in So you 1103 00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:48,440 Speaker 1: don't think that she was inhibited or had a backlash 1104 00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:54,000 Speaker 1: because of the Gargangelan success on the first album. I 1105 00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:57,880 Speaker 1: think that, as you know, and you have often said 1106 00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:02,400 Speaker 1: in your column, the best way to establish a career 1107 01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:09,560 Speaker 1: in the music business is to build credibility first and 1108 01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:14,800 Speaker 1: a base and expand upon that and never waiver from 1109 01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:19,320 Speaker 1: you know, your artistic endeavors to get to grab for 1110 01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:26,560 Speaker 1: something elusive like a big hit record. Um, sometimes you 1111 01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:29,240 Speaker 1: have a big hit like Radiohead had a big hit, 1112 01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:35,480 Speaker 1: and but they are they are as good as the 1113 01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:39,880 Speaker 1: success and they decide creatively to go in different directions. 1114 01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:42,600 Speaker 1: You know, you could say the same about Neil Young. 1115 01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:44,800 Speaker 1: You know he has heart of gold and he makes 1116 01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:50,200 Speaker 1: Tonight's tonight. I mean, you know that success gives you 1117 01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:53,720 Speaker 1: the freedom if you're an artist, to create in a 1118 01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:57,200 Speaker 1: way that you that you want. And you can either 1119 01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:04,000 Speaker 1: be beholden to commercial success, you know, or use the 1120 01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:07,560 Speaker 1: platform to be a true artist and express herself. And 1121 01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:10,560 Speaker 1: and I think in Fiona's case, she used the platform 1122 01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:13,080 Speaker 1: to express herself in the ways that she she wanted to. 1123 01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:16,880 Speaker 1: And what about you know, Macy was different. I mean, 1124 01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:21,080 Speaker 1: you know for me, I I as a record producer, 1125 01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:23,720 Speaker 1: I only wanted to make a record when I had 1126 01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,280 Speaker 1: an idea or I had songs that I had an 1127 01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:27,840 Speaker 1: idea of something to do with. I didn't want to 1128 01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:30,400 Speaker 1: be in a studio and say, okay, this is I 1129 01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:32,760 Speaker 1: make my living. Let me I'll produce the next guy, 1130 01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:34,480 Speaker 1: and I've got to make money doing this, though I 1131 01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:36,320 Speaker 1: was very fortunate to be able to do that with 1132 01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:40,080 Speaker 1: great writers. Warren was an amazing writer, and Fiona is 1133 01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:42,720 Speaker 1: an amazing writer. And that first Macy Gray record has 1134 01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:46,640 Speaker 1: some of the some of her best lyrics on that record. 1135 01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:49,080 Speaker 1: I think if you look at any of those songs, 1136 01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:56,440 Speaker 1: they really are great stories and and real, uh, pure 1137 01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:59,640 Speaker 1: emotions from the heart, you know. In making the Macy record, 1138 01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:03,440 Speaker 1: I mean that was also such an incredible experience for 1139 01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:06,960 Speaker 1: me because I got to basically take the records I 1140 01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:09,880 Speaker 1: loved his kid and rip them off. I mean, we 1141 01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:12,280 Speaker 1: did sly Stone. You know, why don't you call me? 1142 01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:16,200 Speaker 1: It's just us doing sly Stone and and uh in um, 1143 01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:18,360 Speaker 1: I can't wait to meet you. We're doing kind of 1144 01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:21,240 Speaker 1: al Green and you know, and and still we're doing 1145 01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:23,360 Speaker 1: a Wreath of Franklin. So what I was trying to 1146 01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:25,360 Speaker 1: do was so trying to make some kind of artful 1147 01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:29,520 Speaker 1: synthesis of old and new. And that's kind of what 1148 01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:32,520 Speaker 1: I always have done, you know. I I have the 1149 01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:36,120 Speaker 1: sonic reference points, so here the string sound of something 1150 01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:38,959 Speaker 1: in something modern, or we'll have the Stevie wondered drum 1151 01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:40,960 Speaker 1: sound you know the high Stevie Wonder high hat on 1152 01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:43,000 Speaker 1: something and you'll hear that really loud. And you know, 1153 01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:49,240 Speaker 1: with that record, I Macy wanted to make a rap record. 1154 01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:53,160 Speaker 1: She she loved Lauren Hill and she won. She gave 1155 01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:56,000 Speaker 1: me The Miseducation of Lauren Hill and said this is 1156 01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:59,120 Speaker 1: what I wanted to be. And I said, here's Mad 1157 01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:02,760 Speaker 1: Dogs and Englishman. Watch this movie. This is what your 1158 01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:07,680 Speaker 1: band should be. It should be this big rainbow coalition 1159 01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,680 Speaker 1: and you should go around and and that's what you 1160 01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:15,200 Speaker 1: should do. And and and there were such crazy things 1161 01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:19,880 Speaker 1: on that record. I mean, you know, I remember we 1162 01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:23,080 Speaker 1: were we were I wanted to bring wah Wah Watson 1163 01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:26,960 Speaker 1: in to to play on on one of the songs 1164 01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:29,800 Speaker 1: because I was trying to do some stuff with Eric Marshall, 1165 01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:32,280 Speaker 1: who's an amazing, you know, modern young guitar player at 1166 01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:35,720 Speaker 1: the time, and and wa wa Watson and and you know, 1167 01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:39,960 Speaker 1: uh so Wahwah came in and and he set up 1168 01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,720 Speaker 1: his whole thing, which took about two hours, which was 1169 01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:47,160 Speaker 1: a wah wah pedal and a guitar um and and 1170 01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:49,560 Speaker 1: we we gave him the track and he started saying, well, 1171 01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:51,480 Speaker 1: you know what I'm gonna do now is I'm gonna 1172 01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:56,360 Speaker 1: I'm gonna gesticulate, and you know, and he was talking 1173 01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:58,720 Speaker 1: a lot about what he was going to do, and 1174 01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:02,439 Speaker 1: Mace was getting very frustrated it. So so we put 1175 01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:06,280 Speaker 1: the track up and we're already he's built this moment 1176 01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:13,200 Speaker 1: up with the track up, and he goes, what and 1177 01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:15,960 Speaker 1: she literally grasps me by the collar and shed we 1178 01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:19,720 Speaker 1: go outside and she goes, get this guy, why these 1179 01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:21,600 Speaker 1: old guys have to be in my room? But I 1180 01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:24,080 Speaker 1: don't need these guys on my record. And I was like, oh, 1181 01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:29,640 Speaker 1: ship anyway. But you know, her whole, her whole uh 1182 01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:34,400 Speaker 1: uh posse of people were so amazing to work with. 1183 01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:36,320 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, okay, so why did it? Why 1184 01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:39,439 Speaker 1: couldn't she never follow it up? You know, I don't know. 1185 01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:43,960 Speaker 1: I mean I think sometimes and this is just conjecture. 1186 01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:51,000 Speaker 1: I like making first record with artists because their first record, 1187 01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:52,960 Speaker 1: at least back in the day in fact, you could 1188 01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:55,120 Speaker 1: before you could make one in your house. You you 1189 01:04:55,160 --> 01:04:57,840 Speaker 1: weren't able to utilize all the tools of the studio. 1190 01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:00,520 Speaker 1: And they come in with these songs that they've worked 1191 01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:03,000 Speaker 1: on their whole lives with and you take the best 1192 01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:05,920 Speaker 1: of these songs and you can maybe build a sound 1193 01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:08,479 Speaker 1: that becomes the foundation for what they're gonna do next. 1194 01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:11,040 Speaker 1: And to me, that's fun because it allows me to 1195 01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:15,160 Speaker 1: do what I want to do. After you sell eight 1196 01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:22,880 Speaker 1: million records as she did, and people tell you, you know, uh, 1197 01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:25,720 Speaker 1: you know how how how great you are I guess, 1198 01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:27,920 Speaker 1: or how great your music is, then you want to 1199 01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:30,080 Speaker 1: try to expand and do other things. I mean, I 1200 01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:33,760 Speaker 1: will tell you this one story. Jacob Dylan went to 1201 01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:39,520 Speaker 1: Carnegie Hall to play a a Neil Young benefit tribute 1202 01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:42,080 Speaker 1: and it had like Patti Smith and the Roots and 1203 01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:43,840 Speaker 1: you know, all these bands playing nearly Young songs. And 1204 01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:46,320 Speaker 1: I said, Jacob, this is like the after I left Capital. 1205 01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:48,680 Speaker 1: I said, who are you taking to play guitar? He 1206 01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:50,440 Speaker 1: said no, but I'm the house And I said, why 1207 01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:51,960 Speaker 1: don't you take me? He says, you know what, let 1208 01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:54,960 Speaker 1: me call you back to find that answer why not? 1209 01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:58,280 Speaker 1: And to hit the Jacob's credit. He called me back 1210 01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:01,440 Speaker 1: and he said, you know what, man, you got me 1211 01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:03,480 Speaker 1: to play in front of the Stones at Dodger Stadium, 1212 01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:05,560 Speaker 1: and you got me to play in front of the 1213 01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:08,800 Speaker 1: Who and Madison Square Gun Come with me, said great, 1214 01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:11,120 Speaker 1: So Jake came to my house. We learned the song 1215 01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:12,960 Speaker 1: and be okay, we go to the thing. We go 1216 01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:16,480 Speaker 1: to Carnegie Hall. Okay, I'm standing on a side of 1217 01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:20,320 Speaker 1: the stage and I'll never forget this. You know, they're 1218 01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:21,840 Speaker 1: about to walk and I saw the people that I 1219 01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:24,320 Speaker 1: know in the business and I think, I think, Pete, 1220 01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:26,840 Speaker 1: you're in the guitar player with sing He says, hey man, 1221 01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:28,400 Speaker 1: you know they were about to say, Jacob, you go on. 1222 01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:31,000 Speaker 1: And so I start to walk on on the stage 1223 01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:32,360 Speaker 1: of Carnegie On Pete your and you can see his 1224 01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:34,200 Speaker 1: face going no, Andy, no, no, no, that not you, 1225 01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:36,040 Speaker 1: not you, And that was it was me. So I 1226 01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:39,440 Speaker 1: went on stage and I played these two solos and 1227 01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:42,280 Speaker 1: I'll never forget. I got a text from my cousin 1228 01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:44,640 Speaker 1: and he said, hey man, I'm at Carnegie Hall and 1229 01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:47,040 Speaker 1: you know, Jacob Dolan's guitar player looks exactly like it. 1230 01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:50,320 Speaker 1: But I did this thing and after the show, we're 1231 01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:52,200 Speaker 1: at this after party. Were people who were at the 1232 01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:55,160 Speaker 1: show and were you happy with your performance? Yeah? I 1233 01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:57,240 Speaker 1: was great, write the song four thousand times and one thing. 1234 01:06:57,440 --> 01:06:59,480 Speaker 1: I wasn't nervous, very cool to play Carnegie Hall. And 1235 01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:01,080 Speaker 1: he says, all a one of the great moments of 1236 01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:02,600 Speaker 1: my life that I get to play lead guitar kind 1237 01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:04,880 Speaker 1: of your own people cheer. Was like wow. But here's 1238 01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:08,440 Speaker 1: the point of the story. So after the show, Jacob 1239 01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:10,360 Speaker 1: says to me, Oh, you see those people over there, 1240 01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:13,680 Speaker 1: they're looking at you, and I go, oh yeah, He goes, 1241 01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:15,080 Speaker 1: you know why they look at you? Know? I don't know. 1242 01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:16,720 Speaker 1: I guess because you're the lead guitar player. And I'm 1243 01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:18,800 Speaker 1: walking around the reception and I'm getting that kind of 1244 01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:21,240 Speaker 1: like fish out from people. Oh hey, I like yoursel, 1245 01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:22,560 Speaker 1: like your sol. And I said to him, you know 1246 01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:24,760 Speaker 1: what this is. While you guys are nuts, if you 1247 01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:27,280 Speaker 1: do this every day, you're gonna be gonna be crazy. 1248 01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:30,840 Speaker 1: So the point is, if you're whoever and you sell 1249 01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:34,680 Speaker 1: eight million records and people do that to you every day, 1250 01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:38,000 Speaker 1: it has to have an effect on you. And you 1251 01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:41,720 Speaker 1: also want to be in control of your own destiny. 1252 01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:44,760 Speaker 1: And I think Macy wanted to make the records she 1253 01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:46,840 Speaker 1: wanted to make. She didn't want to make that record, 1254 01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:49,840 Speaker 1: and and that's what she did. And whether or not 1255 01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:52,720 Speaker 1: she was able to to, you know, continue the success 1256 01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:54,600 Speaker 1: of eight million records or all I try as a 1257 01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:57,560 Speaker 1: number one record. You know who knows what those factors are. 1258 01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:01,080 Speaker 1: But clearly I think we all get empowered to do 1259 01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:05,360 Speaker 1: things that we shouldn't do. And luckily, you know, some 1260 01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:08,200 Speaker 1: of us in the business world say I must know 1261 01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:11,680 Speaker 1: my limitations and don't do those things. Okay, let's jump 1262 01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:14,560 Speaker 1: ahead to capital. Was that a job you were looking for? 1263 01:08:16,439 --> 01:08:22,240 Speaker 1: You know? I really never sat in a marketing meeting, 1264 01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:25,680 Speaker 1: let alone ran one. And I was not thinking that 1265 01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:29,639 Speaker 1: was something that I I wanted to do. I had 1266 01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:34,439 Speaker 1: gotten three offers to do it. I had a meeting 1267 01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:37,920 Speaker 1: with Tommy Mattala at Scalinatela and he wanted me to 1268 01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:42,280 Speaker 1: run one of his companies. And I just thought, I 1269 01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:45,280 Speaker 1: don't know, it's doesn't I really want to make some 1270 01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:48,960 Speaker 1: cool ship. I don't know if I that's a big 1271 01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:52,040 Speaker 1: company that seems very political. And then when Tom Alley 1272 01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:55,240 Speaker 1: was going to leave Interscope and he had signed that 1273 01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:58,439 Speaker 1: deal with Warner Brothers, Jimmy came to me and he said, 1274 01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:00,719 Speaker 1: Jimmy Ivan came to me and he said, you should 1275 01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:05,360 Speaker 1: you know, you should run uh Interscope and go see Doug. 1276 01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:07,960 Speaker 1: And I went to see the Great Doug Morris and 1277 01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:12,040 Speaker 1: I had a great meeting with him, and Doug said 1278 01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:14,240 Speaker 1: to me, you know what, I wanna make Tom Molly 1279 01:09:14,280 --> 01:09:16,799 Speaker 1: work for you, because he was still in his contract. 1280 01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:19,760 Speaker 1: Tom and I were friends, and I went to see 1281 01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:22,439 Speaker 1: Tom and and I said, hey, man, you know, we 1282 01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:24,679 Speaker 1: had the success with the wallflowers, an airscope and everything, 1283 01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:26,559 Speaker 1: and I said, you know what's going on? He said, look, 1284 01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:29,240 Speaker 1: you know, and you gotta do what you gotta do. 1285 01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:32,280 Speaker 1: And you know, uh, you decide what you want to do, 1286 01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:35,679 Speaker 1: and it just, you know, it didn't feel it felt 1287 01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:41,439 Speaker 1: not right to me. It felt like, I guess, uh, 1288 01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:44,000 Speaker 1: I just didn't see a path to doing something that 1289 01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:46,280 Speaker 1: I wanted to do just to have the job and 1290 01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:48,960 Speaker 1: have a title. That wasn't it. Really. I was never 1291 01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:52,600 Speaker 1: in it for that. And then Ken Barry came to 1292 01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:55,439 Speaker 1: me and he said, look, you want to own Capitol Records. 1293 01:09:55,439 --> 01:09:59,000 Speaker 1: And to me, at the time, Capitol Records was in 1294 01:09:59,080 --> 01:10:02,160 Speaker 1: a sort of strange place. Roy Lott had tried to 1295 01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:05,640 Speaker 1: transition it from what Gary Gersh had started there, and 1296 01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:09,240 Speaker 1: he was trying to make it into Arista, and I 1297 01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:14,040 Speaker 1: just saw it as this this brand that if you 1298 01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:16,800 Speaker 1: were able to connect the legacy of the company to 1299 01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:20,000 Speaker 1: the contemporary business in some way and market that that 1300 01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:22,479 Speaker 1: you could make it into a place where people would 1301 01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:26,479 Speaker 1: want to go and sign. And I thought, if you 1302 01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:28,200 Speaker 1: have a couple of hits, that's better. And I have 1303 01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:30,640 Speaker 1: no hits. I have your interscarp you gotta keep having it. 1304 01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:32,760 Speaker 1: If you're a Sony company, you better have a lot 1305 01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:37,640 Speaker 1: of hits fast. And so I they they made me 1306 01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:44,200 Speaker 1: this crazy offer. And I said, okay, and and and 1307 01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:46,719 Speaker 1: and and the craziest thing, you know, when I got there, 1308 01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:51,120 Speaker 1: I you know, again, I did something. I followed my 1309 01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:54,160 Speaker 1: heart and I didn't really sort of think it through, 1310 01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:58,200 Speaker 1: which I have often done in in my life, probably 1311 01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:01,280 Speaker 1: personally more than business. And and I got to the 1312 01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:07,439 Speaker 1: first meeting, and I remember calling up. I remember calling 1313 01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:09,559 Speaker 1: Michelle Anthony and saying, you know who I was very 1314 01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:13,839 Speaker 1: close with. And she said and I said, look, um, okay, 1315 01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:15,559 Speaker 1: now what do I do? And she says, well, look, 1316 01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:19,200 Speaker 1: you're a manager, you're a record maker, your in publicity, 1317 01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:21,760 Speaker 1: you know, marketing. Look at their meeting schedule to go 1318 01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:23,920 Speaker 1: to the meetings and see what you think. So I 1319 01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:27,120 Speaker 1: went to the first meeting. At the marketing meeting, you know, 1320 01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:29,800 Speaker 1: I looked at their records and I listened to everybody talk, 1321 01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:32,560 Speaker 1: and you know, I was I make some suggestions to 1322 01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:34,320 Speaker 1: things that I thought and everybody was agreeing with me. 1323 01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:36,880 Speaker 1: I thought, wow, this is crazy. So went back in 1324 01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:39,080 Speaker 1: my office. I called my brother. I said, is the 1325 01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:41,080 Speaker 1: craziest thing. He said, what. Remember I've been trying to 1326 01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:42,960 Speaker 1: let trying to get you guys to listen to me 1327 01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:44,639 Speaker 1: my whole life. Well, I just went to this meeting. 1328 01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:47,679 Speaker 1: Everything I say is truly it's incredible. Of course, I 1329 01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:51,400 Speaker 1: later figured out, you know, who was really good at 1330 01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:53,280 Speaker 1: what they were doing and who could do what I 1331 01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:55,599 Speaker 1: wanted to do, and I and I changed that. But 1332 01:11:55,960 --> 01:12:01,400 Speaker 1: a crazy thing happened within the first eight weeks of 1333 01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:03,840 Speaker 1: being there, and I'm just trying to figure it out. 1334 01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:06,760 Speaker 1: In that first eight weeks, ken Berry says to me, 1335 01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:09,920 Speaker 1: We're going to merge Priority Records into Capitol Records. I'm like, whoa, 1336 01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:13,800 Speaker 1: hey what, oh yeah, yeah, you know. And and you know, 1337 01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:16,160 Speaker 1: their roster there that the company that they built was 1338 01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:17,680 Speaker 1: a great one, but it was a you know, a 1339 01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:21,439 Speaker 1: street It was a you know, like the West Coast 1340 01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:26,880 Speaker 1: sort of uh rap company, and and and the roster was, 1341 01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:29,360 Speaker 1: you know, with all sorts of characters. And but I 1342 01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:31,559 Speaker 1: didn't know anything about hip hop. I mean, I was like, 1343 01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:35,160 Speaker 1: wait a minute, you know, I knew pop rock. But 1344 01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:37,160 Speaker 1: I said, okay, I'll figure that out. And I met 1345 01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:39,000 Speaker 1: with the people and I figured out who knew what 1346 01:12:39,040 --> 01:12:40,880 Speaker 1: they were doing and who was good. And I kept 1347 01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:42,439 Speaker 1: the people who looked like they knew what they were 1348 01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:44,559 Speaker 1: doing in a and arm promotion. And you know, I said, okay, 1349 01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:48,000 Speaker 1: well we'll go with this. And but two weeks later, 1350 01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:51,920 Speaker 1: my boss gets fired. Ken Barry gets fired the guy 1351 01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:55,400 Speaker 1: who hired me, and I'll never forget this. Like I 1352 01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:58,880 Speaker 1: call up Howard Kaufman and I go, holy sh it, 1353 01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:03,840 Speaker 1: my boss just got fired. What's going to happen with 1354 01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:07,040 Speaker 1: this new guy? And how it says to me, pray 1355 01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:10,160 Speaker 1: he hates you. I go, what he goes, have you 1356 01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:12,679 Speaker 1: seen your contracts? Later? They'll have to pay you every 1357 01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:14,280 Speaker 1: dime And I said, no, no, no, I don't want 1358 01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:16,320 Speaker 1: the money. I wanted that this looks seems like it 1359 01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:20,679 Speaker 1: could be fun anyway. So Alan Levy and David Bunns 1360 01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:23,479 Speaker 1: came in and and you know, in that first year, 1361 01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:28,639 Speaker 1: I just said, let's just whatever sounds like a hit, 1362 01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:31,400 Speaker 1: let's just go with whatever. Records are done in England, 1363 01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:33,519 Speaker 1: these records are done. Good will promote these, I'll sign 1364 01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:35,680 Speaker 1: some stuff. And you know, in that first year, I 1365 01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:38,280 Speaker 1: think we had we called him Minogue. We did like 1366 01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:41,240 Speaker 1: a million records, and a band called Dirty Vegas. We 1367 01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:44,160 Speaker 1: did like a half million records. And then I signed 1368 01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:47,679 Speaker 1: Uh the Vines, and you know they did they had 1369 01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:51,080 Speaker 1: almost a million records, and Chingy did three million records. 1370 01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:53,880 Speaker 1: And then I took Coldplay because I thought they were good. 1371 01:13:54,479 --> 01:13:56,240 Speaker 1: I want to see them at the Mayan Theater and 1372 01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:59,000 Speaker 1: I'll never forget. And I said to the manager, you know, 1373 01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:01,479 Speaker 1: I said, look, if the band will do a hundred 1374 01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:04,360 Speaker 1: and fifty dates in America, we can break the band. 1375 01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:06,960 Speaker 1: You know, you may not have a bigger hit than Yellow. 1376 01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:11,879 Speaker 1: But that's the one problem I've always seen where English 1377 01:14:11,880 --> 01:14:14,559 Speaker 1: bands have hits over in England and they don't spend 1378 01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:16,040 Speaker 1: the time here, you know, because they were having a 1379 01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:18,120 Speaker 1: problem with Robbie Williams and it was all this disparity 1380 01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:20,200 Speaker 1: between England. And you're gonna say that guy doesn't spend 1381 01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:21,479 Speaker 1: any time. You can't come in and do Jay Leno. 1382 01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:24,320 Speaker 1: I think you're gonna be a hit. So you know, 1383 01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:27,240 Speaker 1: Coldplay did all those dates, and you know, we saw it. 1384 01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:28,880 Speaker 1: We saw all those records, and all of a sudden, 1385 01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:30,799 Speaker 1: you know, months and leaving they were they were sharpening 1386 01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:33,559 Speaker 1: the knife and then getting the noose and the gun 1387 01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:35,800 Speaker 1: ready to put somebody else. We were having hits, and 1388 01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:40,160 Speaker 1: so you know, they focused on Virgin and fixing that. 1389 01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:41,920 Speaker 1: And you know, through the course of that, through the 1390 01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:43,360 Speaker 1: course of the time of Capital, I mean, we broke 1391 01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:46,000 Speaker 1: a British Act. Every year. We broke We woke Kylie, 1392 01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:48,160 Speaker 1: we wroke dirty Veg. Guess we wrote Lily Allen, we 1393 01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:52,200 Speaker 1: broke ran Belly Ray. Uh, they will cold play. I mean, 1394 01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:54,920 Speaker 1: you know, in the history of Capital, I don't think 1395 01:14:55,080 --> 01:15:00,439 Speaker 1: you have a British Act being broken every year. And 1396 01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:04,120 Speaker 1: you know, in a way, I think the British company 1397 01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:07,160 Speaker 1: didn't love that because they were so used to ruling 1398 01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:10,040 Speaker 1: the roost and being able to beat up on the Americans. 1399 01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:12,759 Speaker 1: They didn't know anything and these guys can't do anything. 1400 01:15:12,760 --> 01:15:14,080 Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, you know, we were going 1401 01:15:14,120 --> 01:15:16,160 Speaker 1: to the meetings and you know, we had doubled the 1402 01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:18,320 Speaker 1: market share and you know, and double the profits and 1403 01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:21,960 Speaker 1: like in like two years, and so it was it 1404 01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:25,400 Speaker 1: was a good time. And uh, you know, and I 1405 01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:27,160 Speaker 1: didn't really care where the records came from. I mean, 1406 01:15:27,160 --> 01:15:28,960 Speaker 1: I wanted our records to do well. I wanted to 1407 01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:30,880 Speaker 1: sign our stuff, and you know, and we did. I mean, 1408 01:15:30,920 --> 01:15:34,160 Speaker 1: we did two million Yellow Card records, and we we 1409 01:15:34,240 --> 01:15:36,240 Speaker 1: signed LaToya, We did million records with her, and a 1410 01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:38,680 Speaker 1: million records at least, and Marie Presley and you know, 1411 01:15:38,720 --> 01:15:40,640 Speaker 1: and all sorts of uh, you know, all sorts of 1412 01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:42,680 Speaker 1: other stuff we signed into Paul we broke okay go. 1413 01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:44,800 Speaker 1: I mean we had a long list of stuff that 1414 01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:47,719 Speaker 1: I thought was you know, we put Snoop with Farrell 1415 01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:49,400 Speaker 1: and did their first record and did beautifully at a 1416 01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:52,160 Speaker 1: number one record. We had a healthy company. I got 1417 01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:59,519 Speaker 1: a new contract. But you know, in the end, it's um, 1418 01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:05,120 Speaker 1: it's not really what I wanted to do every day. 1419 01:16:05,160 --> 01:16:06,400 Speaker 1: You know, at the end of the day, I love 1420 01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:09,240 Speaker 1: music and I love making music. And the things I 1421 01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:13,599 Speaker 1: did I did from the heart. And making the number 1422 01:16:14,360 --> 01:16:16,720 Speaker 1: was great, and it was a great education, and I 1423 01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:21,040 Speaker 1: got to do some incredible things when I was there, 1424 01:16:21,080 --> 01:16:24,240 Speaker 1: and had great relationships with artists that I really really respect, 1425 01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:29,200 Speaker 1: and that was great. And also learning how to you know, 1426 01:16:29,200 --> 01:16:31,800 Speaker 1: how to run a business and and and having a 1427 01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:36,000 Speaker 1: successful business but corporate life is a killer and you know, 1428 01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:40,000 Speaker 1: you really you have to be more lucky than smart. 1429 01:16:40,479 --> 01:16:45,439 Speaker 1: And how did it end? Well, you know it ended. 1430 01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:48,400 Speaker 1: It was a long tail. You know, there were things there. 1431 01:16:48,439 --> 01:16:51,320 Speaker 1: It's like when we did well, I think they were 1432 01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:55,160 Speaker 1: kind of piste off, you know, because they didn't want 1433 01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:56,560 Speaker 1: us to do that. They didn't want us to do that. 1434 01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:59,720 Speaker 1: Because they wanted version do that, they hired the guy there. Uh, 1435 01:16:59,760 --> 01:17:02,040 Speaker 1: and when we weren't doing well, and there's always that time, 1436 01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:04,920 Speaker 1: you know, in the course of a five year plan. 1437 01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:11,960 Speaker 1: They didn't like it. But I do remember, uh, you know, 1438 01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:16,880 Speaker 1: we would have these meetings and um, well, in one 1439 01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:19,720 Speaker 1: of our financial meetings, we would have these conference the 1440 01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:24,599 Speaker 1: video conference meetings, and so you know, our numbers were 1441 01:17:24,600 --> 01:17:26,600 Speaker 1: pretty good. We had this meeting with the guys in 1442 01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:30,560 Speaker 1: New York and and they kept asking us questions and 1443 01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:32,439 Speaker 1: we had answers for the questions. Okay, So at the 1444 01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:36,120 Speaker 1: end of at the end of the financial meeting, they said, okay, yeah, 1445 01:17:36,120 --> 01:17:38,240 Speaker 1: thank you. It sounds too happy, and they clicked the 1446 01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:42,040 Speaker 1: video off. But they didn't turn the video off, so 1447 01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:44,720 Speaker 1: when we left the room, we could hear everything they 1448 01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:46,960 Speaker 1: were saying. And every time we had one of these meetings. 1449 01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:49,360 Speaker 1: They couldn't figure out how I turned the video conferencing off. 1450 01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:51,400 Speaker 1: So everything they said, we're gonna go after this, and 1451 01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:52,880 Speaker 1: we're gonna look at this, and we're gonna look at that. 1452 01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:54,519 Speaker 1: This is what this was. And we knew everywhere they 1453 01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:56,120 Speaker 1: were gonna go. So in three weeks when they came 1454 01:17:56,200 --> 01:17:58,120 Speaker 1: looking for the numbers of the things, we had all 1455 01:17:58,120 --> 01:18:00,280 Speaker 1: the answers, you know, But it was that kind of stuff. 1456 01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:05,040 Speaker 1: But I think, you know, to survive in at that 1457 01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:09,120 Speaker 1: time at e AM, I in a corporate environment, I think, 1458 01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:11,240 Speaker 1: you know, you had to be a little bit more political, 1459 01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:16,400 Speaker 1: and I just wasn't political, you know. I mean, you know, 1460 01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:19,000 Speaker 1: we had a conference at once where we all got 1461 01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:22,960 Speaker 1: together in the marketing conference and I think they had 1462 01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:25,639 Speaker 1: some guy from Sachi and Sachi and they were sort of, yeah, 1463 01:18:25,680 --> 01:18:29,000 Speaker 1: this is in the the months era and they and 1464 01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:33,240 Speaker 1: they had these guys telling us about how to run 1465 01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:38,160 Speaker 1: our business better. And they said, look, the consumer tells 1466 01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:42,559 Speaker 1: you what the product is and what to do with 1467 01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:46,040 Speaker 1: the product. Then we do this research. And he said, 1468 01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:48,960 Speaker 1: you know the research that we did, will we show you. 1469 01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:51,519 Speaker 1: We're in there, like they got the troop movements and 1470 01:18:51,560 --> 01:18:54,160 Speaker 1: a pointer, and I say, you're going, guys, you want 1471 01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:56,240 Speaker 1: me to make records and run marketing and like make 1472 01:18:56,280 --> 01:18:58,680 Speaker 1: sure the promotion guys are actually getting records played, Like 1473 01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:01,400 Speaker 1: what am I doing? But I didn't say they're my face. 1474 01:19:01,439 --> 01:19:04,320 Speaker 1: I'm sure didn't look really really happy all day. Anyway, 1475 01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:07,439 Speaker 1: the guy gets to the point where he says, so Paumala, 1476 01:19:07,600 --> 01:19:10,160 Speaker 1: they wanted to know what to do with the soap, 1477 01:19:11,280 --> 01:19:14,679 Speaker 1: and they went and did the research, and the soap 1478 01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:19,240 Speaker 1: they realized from the consumers had to be green. So 1479 01:19:19,280 --> 01:19:21,920 Speaker 1: I raised my hand and I go, yeah, but when 1480 01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:24,639 Speaker 1: I tell the soap at Capitol Records to be green, 1481 01:19:24,680 --> 01:19:27,000 Speaker 1: they tell me funk off because they're artists and their 1482 01:19:27,040 --> 01:19:29,080 Speaker 1: people and like I don't understand what we're doing, and 1483 01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:30,840 Speaker 1: I never forget. Months pulled me aside and he goes, 1484 01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:33,040 Speaker 1: why do you have to be that guy? And I said, 1485 01:19:33,400 --> 01:19:34,720 Speaker 1: what do you mean that guy? You mean the guy 1486 01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:37,400 Speaker 1: who's processing facts, Like I don't know, like this is 1487 01:19:37,439 --> 01:19:39,320 Speaker 1: not that relevant. He goes, just go back there and 1488 01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:43,840 Speaker 1: listen and you know, and don't disrupt things. So but 1489 01:19:44,040 --> 01:19:49,280 Speaker 1: that was my life, and you know I think that 1490 01:19:50,240 --> 01:19:54,480 Speaker 1: um you know, I I also, I mean I remastered 1491 01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:58,160 Speaker 1: the Beatles records. Okay, I I wanted to. When I 1492 01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:00,200 Speaker 1: was a kid, as when you were a kid, I 1493 01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:03,679 Speaker 1: had those records, I had some things new I wanted 1494 01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:08,120 Speaker 1: to because the Dylan catalog had been remastered and the 1495 01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:10,720 Speaker 1: Stones catalog had been remastered, and they and like by 1496 01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:12,280 Speaker 1: the time they were going to decide to do it, 1497 01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:16,360 Speaker 1: I just thought, we gotta do this. So I went 1498 01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:18,559 Speaker 1: to Ted Jensen, who was a master guy, and and 1499 01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:22,720 Speaker 1: I went to Neil aspinall what you know, may rest 1500 01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:24,800 Speaker 1: in peace. What a great guy, you know, who managed 1501 01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:26,080 Speaker 1: to be those And I said, well, let me do 1502 01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:27,800 Speaker 1: this because I really I just want to make these 1503 01:20:27,800 --> 01:20:29,400 Speaker 1: things sound good. And he said, okay, you can take 1504 01:20:29,439 --> 01:20:31,240 Speaker 1: those records and you can you send it to me. 1505 01:20:31,920 --> 01:20:33,920 Speaker 1: The British company did not like that because I went 1506 01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:35,680 Speaker 1: straight to the Beatles, but I had a really good 1507 01:20:35,720 --> 01:20:38,000 Speaker 1: relationship with all of them, and you know, I think 1508 01:20:38,040 --> 01:20:39,639 Speaker 1: that they didn't think I wanted to rip them off 1509 01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:42,719 Speaker 1: or take some money and make my number with their masters. 1510 01:20:42,760 --> 01:20:45,559 Speaker 1: They knew like I cared, I think, and so we 1511 01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:49,200 Speaker 1: made these American records and it really it's just irritated them. 1512 01:20:49,240 --> 01:20:52,320 Speaker 1: And then I remember I had done a family portrait 1513 01:20:52,520 --> 01:20:55,640 Speaker 1: of our roster. And I had figured out how we 1514 01:20:55,680 --> 01:20:57,639 Speaker 1: could at that time a two thousand three or four 1515 01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:01,200 Speaker 1: take Coldplay and the Beastie Boys and and Radiohead and 1516 01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:03,680 Speaker 1: Kylie and put them in and McCartney and put them 1517 01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:05,439 Speaker 1: in a photo and put it in billboard. And that 1518 01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:09,160 Speaker 1: just made them crazy, because that's they didn't think of 1519 01:21:09,160 --> 01:21:13,640 Speaker 1: the idea. And so there was constant friction, and I 1520 01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:17,360 Speaker 1: think it ended when they you know, realized they were 1521 01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:20,240 Speaker 1: going to sell the company and they were showing a 1522 01:21:20,280 --> 01:21:24,040 Speaker 1: certain amount of profit and to the new buyer, they 1523 01:21:24,080 --> 01:21:27,439 Speaker 1: were showing a program of merging the company and cutting 1524 01:21:27,479 --> 01:21:31,120 Speaker 1: the overhead. And I guess the new buyer didn't really 1525 01:21:31,200 --> 01:21:33,439 Speaker 1: do the due diligence because they were in the I 1526 01:21:33,439 --> 01:21:37,360 Speaker 1: don't know, bar business and refrigerator business and they yeah, 1527 01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:40,920 Speaker 1: and they thought, hey, yeah. Then they then they merged 1528 01:21:40,960 --> 01:21:43,639 Speaker 1: the company and they just thought they could run as 1529 01:21:43,640 --> 01:21:46,880 Speaker 1: many records and create as much profit, and they didn't 1530 01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:50,840 Speaker 1: realize that they needed, you know, two companies. And also 1531 01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:53,280 Speaker 1: at the same time, after you know this, there was 1532 01:21:53,360 --> 01:21:58,080 Speaker 1: this like you know, perfect storm going on where Radio 1533 01:21:59,000 --> 01:22:03,280 Speaker 1: was you know, consolidating, and it was very much about 1534 01:22:03,479 --> 01:22:07,519 Speaker 1: call out research. So that was tightening and retail was 1535 01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:10,640 Speaker 1: going away, and I just don't And I think you 1536 01:22:10,680 --> 01:22:13,760 Speaker 1: had instead of being right on your records because the 1537 01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:16,880 Speaker 1: profit structure, structure would be a certain way it now 1538 01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:19,479 Speaker 1: you had to be right about fifty of the time. 1539 01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:23,200 Speaker 1: And all of that together with a new president who 1540 01:22:23,479 --> 01:22:25,920 Speaker 1: you know, was had also a kind of I think, 1541 01:22:26,560 --> 01:22:30,439 Speaker 1: uh focus in music that wasn't broad enough to carry 1542 01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:34,519 Speaker 1: that company. It all just came crashing down. Okay, let's 1543 01:22:34,600 --> 01:22:37,479 Speaker 1: jump ahead ten years today. What do you see as 1544 01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:39,719 Speaker 1: the state of the music business and the music today. 1545 01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:46,040 Speaker 1: I mean, it's hard for me to to evaluate the 1546 01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:48,680 Speaker 1: business portion of any of it really because I'm not 1547 01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:52,000 Speaker 1: really astute. I'm not looking at it like like you 1548 01:22:52,040 --> 01:22:54,400 Speaker 1: look at it. I like to ask you that question 1549 01:22:54,439 --> 01:22:57,639 Speaker 1: and I read what you say about that stuff. Um. 1550 01:22:57,680 --> 01:22:59,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm happy that music is thriving, and I'm 1551 01:22:59,680 --> 01:23:03,040 Speaker 1: happy that that that the companies are healthy because there's 1552 01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:08,599 Speaker 1: a another resurgence of of money coming in from streaming 1553 01:23:08,640 --> 01:23:12,400 Speaker 1: and people are, you know, buying their records again, you know, 1554 01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:15,200 Speaker 1: finding news to buy the same music again in new music. 1555 01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:19,479 Speaker 1: So I think it's healthy. I think the unfortunate thing 1556 01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:25,360 Speaker 1: is that everyone can make a record and everyone can 1557 01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:28,360 Speaker 1: put one out and it doesn't matter. So there's so 1558 01:23:28,439 --> 01:23:31,200 Speaker 1: much you know, we live in this age of of 1559 01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:34,880 Speaker 1: you know, of hyper information and short attention span and 1560 01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:37,720 Speaker 1: being bombarded with stuff, and it's just trying to get 1561 01:23:37,760 --> 01:23:41,240 Speaker 1: above the noise. And so that's just in you know, 1562 01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:44,360 Speaker 1: in our in our business. And you know, at one time, 1563 01:23:44,439 --> 01:23:45,840 Speaker 1: I think to make a record, you have to be 1564 01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:48,439 Speaker 1: really good because you have to get somebody who's going 1565 01:23:48,439 --> 01:23:49,960 Speaker 1: to invest a coup hundred thousand gollars to put you 1566 01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:53,400 Speaker 1: in the studio, and you know, and then you have 1567 01:23:53,479 --> 01:23:56,320 Speaker 1: to have somebody who had vision to make you into 1568 01:23:56,400 --> 01:24:00,080 Speaker 1: the thing, to create that alchemy that we we know 1569 01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:02,720 Speaker 1: is the brand of the band that we love and 1570 01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:05,160 Speaker 1: that we want to buy the T shirt of. And 1571 01:24:05,520 --> 01:24:12,880 Speaker 1: I I don't I don't know. Um. If you know, 1572 01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:19,200 Speaker 1: if it's possible, uh to to to affect popular culture 1573 01:24:19,240 --> 01:24:25,519 Speaker 1: through rock music the way it was you know, let's 1574 01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:31,800 Speaker 1: say in the last twenty years before the the the 1575 01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:34,280 Speaker 1: age of the smartphone, where you have all human knowledge 1576 01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:38,200 Speaker 1: in your hand. Um. I mean, obviously the bridge between 1577 01:24:38,280 --> 01:24:41,320 Speaker 1: hip hop and popular culture and pop music is there. 1578 01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:44,360 Speaker 1: It affects other forms of the of the culture. It 1579 01:24:44,400 --> 01:24:48,519 Speaker 1: affects you know, fashion and and art. But you know 1580 01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:50,880 Speaker 1: the thing that I love and that would be, you know, 1581 01:24:50,960 --> 01:24:54,200 Speaker 1: more rock music. I don't. I think the bridge between 1582 01:24:54,360 --> 01:24:57,320 Speaker 1: alternative culture and pop culture may be broken. It may 1583 01:24:57,320 --> 01:25:03,320 Speaker 1: be broken forever. Okay, so today you consider yourself a manager, Well, 1584 01:25:03,360 --> 01:25:06,559 Speaker 1: you know, I never really consider myself I'm now. I 1585 01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:08,599 Speaker 1: don't know if you I would say that per se 1586 01:25:08,680 --> 01:25:12,440 Speaker 1: because I'm not looking for management clients. I have relationships 1587 01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:16,040 Speaker 1: with a few artists that I love that I work with, 1588 01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:18,960 Speaker 1: and some of it's as a producer, some of it's 1589 01:25:18,960 --> 01:25:20,800 Speaker 1: as a producer and a manager, some of it's just 1590 01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:24,920 Speaker 1: as a manager. But really, I you know, I wanted 1591 01:25:24,960 --> 01:25:27,479 Speaker 1: to make this film and I and I had this 1592 01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:29,479 Speaker 1: idea and I made this film. Before we get to 1593 01:25:29,479 --> 01:25:33,880 Speaker 1: the film, so what are those acts you're you're working with. Well, 1594 01:25:33,920 --> 01:25:39,439 Speaker 1: at the moment, it's Jacob Dylan, Fiona Apple, who I've 1595 01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:45,280 Speaker 1: known and for twenty five plus years, Cat Power, and 1596 01:25:45,479 --> 01:25:48,479 Speaker 1: a singer named Jade Costrinos who was in the band 1597 01:25:48,479 --> 01:25:51,920 Speaker 1: called Edward Sharpen the Magnetic Serios. Okay, so let's get 1598 01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:54,519 Speaker 1: back to the movie. So you're sitting on the couch. 1599 01:25:55,080 --> 01:25:58,439 Speaker 1: You see this movie the model Model Shop, Model Shop, 1600 01:25:58,479 --> 01:26:02,400 Speaker 1: excuse me, and then you decide, okay, uh, we should 1601 01:26:02,439 --> 01:26:05,519 Speaker 1: make a record of these old tunes. Continue the story 1602 01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:13,839 Speaker 1: from there. When we start getting into the songs, I 1603 01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:16,840 Speaker 1: realized the ones that I'm picking, in the ones that 1604 01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:20,680 Speaker 1: Jacob is liking, all have stories behind them. And there 1605 01:26:20,680 --> 01:26:25,040 Speaker 1: are stories that are kind of integral to these bands. Uh, 1606 01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:28,400 Speaker 1: and I just want to know. I want to go 1607 01:26:28,520 --> 01:26:31,759 Speaker 1: find out the you know, the what's behind the songs 1608 01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:33,880 Speaker 1: from the people and you know. So we start to 1609 01:26:33,920 --> 01:26:38,000 Speaker 1: make this record, and you know, in making the record, 1610 01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:42,479 Speaker 1: because it was a record first, and I get these songs, 1611 01:26:42,520 --> 01:26:45,040 Speaker 1: and I'm trying to find a way to make, like 1612 01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:47,439 Speaker 1: in the other records that I made something modern out 1613 01:26:47,439 --> 01:26:50,320 Speaker 1: of something old. How do I synthesize this into something 1614 01:26:50,360 --> 01:26:54,120 Speaker 1: that's just not tracing paper bar band Hollywood in bar 1615 01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:58,439 Speaker 1: band shit. And I had this idea of turning these 1616 01:26:58,439 --> 01:27:01,600 Speaker 1: songs into duets, mainly with women, so that when you 1617 01:27:01,720 --> 01:27:06,479 Speaker 1: hear never My Love or you hear Expecting to Fly, 1618 01:27:07,720 --> 01:27:13,000 Speaker 1: that those were songs, you know, sung by bye bye 1619 01:27:13,400 --> 01:27:16,479 Speaker 1: by a bunch of guys or a guy, and I 1620 01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:19,200 Speaker 1: turned it into a conversation between a man and women 1621 01:27:19,479 --> 01:27:21,920 Speaker 1: you showed me done by the Turtles written by mcgwyn 1622 01:27:21,920 --> 01:27:25,479 Speaker 1: and Clark, but when cat Power and Jacob sing it, 1623 01:27:25,479 --> 01:27:28,120 Speaker 1: it becomes a conversation and it's a great one. And 1624 01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:32,440 Speaker 1: so you know, that gives me the the the impetus 1625 01:27:32,479 --> 01:27:34,640 Speaker 1: to kind of go further and then take some of 1626 01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:37,240 Speaker 1: the arrangements of some things like you would hear in 1627 01:27:37,320 --> 01:27:39,880 Speaker 1: a in a bird song and take the twelve string 1628 01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:41,960 Speaker 1: and put it in a mom momas in Papa song, 1629 01:27:42,160 --> 01:27:45,439 Speaker 1: and you know, take this string line that you would 1630 01:27:45,439 --> 01:27:47,320 Speaker 1: hear here, and you know, and and mix and matches. 1631 01:27:47,360 --> 01:27:50,519 Speaker 1: It gives you the feeling that you're there in that place. 1632 01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:52,880 Speaker 1: But it's not when you go listen to the original 1633 01:27:52,960 --> 01:27:54,599 Speaker 1: next but it it's like, whoa, this is way different, 1634 01:27:54,640 --> 01:27:56,280 Speaker 1: but it feels the same. So how does that have fun? 1635 01:27:56,560 --> 01:27:58,160 Speaker 1: That to me was interesting and it was fun, and 1636 01:27:58,200 --> 01:28:00,240 Speaker 1: that's so I started. And then at that point I 1637 01:28:00,280 --> 01:28:03,040 Speaker 1: was like, well, this is something bigger because the collection 1638 01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:08,479 Speaker 1: of songs suggests this time and around the time that 1639 01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:12,599 Speaker 1: we were doing this, we first of all, we read 1640 01:28:12,600 --> 01:28:16,320 Speaker 1: your column about going back. Okay, that's number one, um, 1641 01:28:16,439 --> 01:28:19,400 Speaker 1: and you know that becomes you know, part of our 1642 01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:24,520 Speaker 1: our film. But um, it it, you know it. It's 1643 01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:28,160 Speaker 1: the fiftieth anniversary of the birth of the Birds, and 1644 01:28:28,240 --> 01:28:31,880 Speaker 1: it really starts with the birds, as you know, when 1645 01:28:31,880 --> 01:28:36,040 Speaker 1: the Birds electrified folk music in Nive that that changes 1646 01:28:36,080 --> 01:28:38,240 Speaker 1: everything for everyone. And I don't know, you know, and 1647 01:28:38,280 --> 01:28:40,679 Speaker 1: when we start to make the movie, we think about 1648 01:28:40,720 --> 01:28:44,640 Speaker 1: the fiftieth anniversary of that, and so I say, you know, 1649 01:28:44,680 --> 01:28:48,679 Speaker 1: I start to write out a treatment and find somebody 1650 01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:51,760 Speaker 1: to I mean, so find somebody to believe enough to 1651 01:28:51,960 --> 01:28:54,200 Speaker 1: to finance it. And I wasn't going to make the film. 1652 01:28:54,479 --> 01:28:57,640 Speaker 1: I had this treatment and I went to very accomplished 1653 01:28:58,280 --> 01:29:01,240 Speaker 1: documentary filmmakers and I said, look, yeah, it was like 1654 01:29:01,240 --> 01:29:04,320 Speaker 1: a rock critic giving them some rock critic theory bullshit. 1655 01:29:04,439 --> 01:29:06,200 Speaker 1: And I said, look, this is an important thing. And 1656 01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:08,120 Speaker 1: they're like, nah, I don't want to do it now. 1657 01:29:08,160 --> 01:29:10,840 Speaker 1: I need two million dollars. That's like, okay, wait a minute, 1658 01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:14,400 Speaker 1: all right. So somebody said to me, look, you hired 1659 01:29:14,479 --> 01:29:18,400 Speaker 1: video directors. You ran all the marketing and you know advertising, 1660 01:29:18,439 --> 01:29:23,400 Speaker 1: and your company you make records. You know these people, 1661 01:29:24,040 --> 01:29:26,519 Speaker 1: some of them. You make the movie. I said, I 1662 01:29:26,600 --> 01:29:30,200 Speaker 1: can't make I'm not a director. They said, sure you are, 1663 01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:31,840 Speaker 1: you can do it. Because I didn't want to find somebody. 1664 01:29:32,200 --> 01:29:34,600 Speaker 1: They said, you just get this. So I called this 1665 01:29:34,680 --> 01:29:37,880 Speaker 1: producer and I said, you know, get me a DP 1666 01:29:38,160 --> 01:29:40,000 Speaker 1: that I can talk to, that I can show them 1667 01:29:40,040 --> 01:29:43,960 Speaker 1: the phya and get me an editor and then then 1668 01:29:44,040 --> 01:29:46,760 Speaker 1: let's see what we can do. And and you know, 1669 01:29:47,160 --> 01:29:50,879 Speaker 1: that's that becomes the you know, the beginning of of 1670 01:29:50,880 --> 01:29:55,479 Speaker 1: of making the film. But you know, the the that 1671 01:29:55,600 --> 01:29:58,320 Speaker 1: period we started by thinking it's going to be the 1672 01:29:58,360 --> 01:30:01,200 Speaker 1: electrification of folk music and how people migrate from New 1673 01:30:01,280 --> 01:30:03,880 Speaker 1: York to l A. And that's the story. And as 1674 01:30:03,960 --> 01:30:06,720 Speaker 1: I find out, as documentary filmmakers later told me, you 1675 01:30:06,760 --> 01:30:08,600 Speaker 1: found out everything we all find out, which is the 1676 01:30:08,640 --> 01:30:12,120 Speaker 1: story is not where you think it is, but the 1677 01:30:12,160 --> 01:30:14,559 Speaker 1: story is somewhere else, and you find the story. And 1678 01:30:14,600 --> 01:30:18,920 Speaker 1: what I found by talking to these people was that California, 1679 01:30:19,120 --> 01:30:24,040 Speaker 1: which was the ultimate horizontal city, the promised land, the 1680 01:30:24,120 --> 01:30:27,559 Speaker 1: land of freedom where anything is possible. Um, you know, 1681 01:30:27,680 --> 01:30:32,160 Speaker 1: you could go and and and and electrify folk music. 1682 01:30:32,320 --> 01:30:35,960 Speaker 1: And so for me, I used it, expecting to fly 1683 01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:40,559 Speaker 1: as a sort of frame for this film. Uh, the 1684 01:30:40,600 --> 01:30:43,240 Speaker 1: beginning obviously the beginning of the end. And and really 1685 01:30:43,280 --> 01:30:45,320 Speaker 1: to me, that song represents a few things. I mean 1686 01:30:45,360 --> 01:30:47,960 Speaker 1: that song, you know, it's about the end of a relationship. 1687 01:30:48,960 --> 01:30:53,080 Speaker 1: But even in the title, it's like it suggests, no 1688 01:30:53,120 --> 01:30:55,720 Speaker 1: matter how outlanded your dreams are, you think they're going 1689 01:30:55,760 --> 01:30:57,960 Speaker 1: to come true, which is like that era. And as 1690 01:30:58,000 --> 01:31:01,320 Speaker 1: we know, that kind of boundless optimism never lasts. But 1691 01:31:02,320 --> 01:31:05,519 Speaker 1: you know, that period, it really is there. What the 1692 01:31:05,560 --> 01:31:07,479 Speaker 1: story that I find is that there's really three periods 1693 01:31:07,479 --> 01:31:10,639 Speaker 1: of Little King. There's the period where they were Roger 1694 01:31:10,720 --> 01:31:14,040 Speaker 1: mcgwinn sees the hard Day's Night, sees the twelve string 1695 01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:18,840 Speaker 1: takes the twelve string electric tosting electrifies folk music, and 1696 01:31:19,439 --> 01:31:22,640 Speaker 1: every band comes to California because they are supposed to 1697 01:31:22,680 --> 01:31:24,880 Speaker 1: be the American beatles that got the velvet collars, they 1698 01:31:24,960 --> 01:31:28,360 Speaker 1: got the whole thing. And and that period of being 1699 01:31:28,400 --> 01:31:31,479 Speaker 1: in a band, you know, which is explored in the film, 1700 01:31:31,840 --> 01:31:35,840 Speaker 1: is really about multiple singers and multiple songwriters and that 1701 01:31:35,880 --> 01:31:38,360 Speaker 1: collective energy that they all saw in a Hard Day's Night. 1702 01:31:38,400 --> 01:31:40,360 Speaker 1: Hey we're traveling around. Hey, look isn't this great? We're 1703 01:31:40,360 --> 01:31:43,280 Speaker 1: like our little gang and they all come here and 1704 01:31:43,360 --> 01:31:46,320 Speaker 1: that period ends, and and in the film you really 1705 01:31:46,360 --> 01:31:49,160 Speaker 1: find out, you know, Michelle tells you it ends partly 1706 01:31:49,240 --> 01:31:53,599 Speaker 1: because she liked Danny and John, and you know, Crosby 1707 01:31:53,640 --> 01:31:56,920 Speaker 1: tells you that the Birds are you know, and because 1708 01:31:56,960 --> 01:31:58,639 Speaker 1: he's as he says, he was an asshole, and it's 1709 01:31:58,640 --> 01:32:01,120 Speaker 1: sort of tied in some ways to him wanting to 1710 01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:04,559 Speaker 1: put Tryad on the Bird's record and they going back 1711 01:32:04,560 --> 01:32:06,799 Speaker 1: because they want to have a hit. And Steven Stills 1712 01:32:06,800 --> 01:32:11,120 Speaker 1: tells you, okay, we we were had a wealthy material, 1713 01:32:11,360 --> 01:32:13,880 Speaker 1: but it was divergent directions and in the end, you know, 1714 01:32:14,080 --> 01:32:17,120 Speaker 1: there's Neilly Young in the end, you know, as on 1715 01:32:17,160 --> 01:32:19,960 Speaker 1: the search for the individual, because after the band period, 1716 01:32:20,320 --> 01:32:24,000 Speaker 1: there is the psychedelic period, and after the psychedelic period, 1717 01:32:24,439 --> 01:32:26,920 Speaker 1: it's a retrenchment back to country rock and roots. And 1718 01:32:26,960 --> 01:32:28,760 Speaker 1: I'm telling you things you're you already know, Bob, and 1719 01:32:28,800 --> 01:32:31,719 Speaker 1: it're written about, but it becomes the search for the individual. 1720 01:32:31,800 --> 01:32:36,040 Speaker 1: So it's not Buffalo Springfield. It's Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young. 1721 01:32:36,080 --> 01:32:38,639 Speaker 1: And so for me, I wanted to explore the idea 1722 01:32:38,760 --> 01:32:41,880 Speaker 1: of the band and that period and the thing that 1723 01:32:42,400 --> 01:32:45,240 Speaker 1: you know, I think with the film, I was sitting 1724 01:32:45,240 --> 01:32:49,120 Speaker 1: there and because the contemporary record business had rejected me 1725 01:32:49,920 --> 01:32:53,439 Speaker 1: in that moment and I left Capital, I was rejecting it, 1726 01:32:53,680 --> 01:32:58,160 Speaker 1: and so I looked back at this film, you know, 1727 01:32:58,240 --> 01:33:00,960 Speaker 1: and I just thought to this time when things were 1728 01:33:01,080 --> 01:33:04,080 Speaker 1: much simpler and it wasn't so complicated, and I didn't 1729 01:33:04,080 --> 01:33:07,840 Speaker 1: have corporate governance and ship on top of me, and 1730 01:33:07,840 --> 01:33:14,000 Speaker 1: and so it sent me to to somehow interpret and 1731 01:33:14,040 --> 01:33:17,360 Speaker 1: pay homage to that music that I loved that I 1732 01:33:17,439 --> 01:33:21,240 Speaker 1: listened to on w ABC and Cousin Brucey and w 1733 01:33:21,439 --> 01:33:23,000 Speaker 1: m c A. And I was a good guy, and 1734 01:33:23,080 --> 01:33:26,120 Speaker 1: I heard good vibrations and I heard California dreaming, and 1735 01:33:26,160 --> 01:33:29,080 Speaker 1: I thought, God, there's this place. I'm in my little 1736 01:33:29,560 --> 01:33:33,160 Speaker 1: concrete park playing stoop ball and stickball, and it's cold, 1737 01:33:33,200 --> 01:33:36,439 Speaker 1: and that place that that looks like it does and 1738 01:33:36,640 --> 01:33:38,519 Speaker 1: it's a mad, mad, mad mad world with the big 1739 01:33:38,640 --> 01:33:41,400 Speaker 1: w and it's beautiful by the sea, and you know, 1740 01:33:41,520 --> 01:33:44,800 Speaker 1: and and that's what I wanted to celebrate and the 1741 01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:47,600 Speaker 1: place we live when time was simpler. Because if you 1742 01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:50,720 Speaker 1: squint your eyes and you drive around l A, you know, 1743 01:33:50,800 --> 01:33:52,920 Speaker 1: and you're always on the edge of nature. There's a 1744 01:33:52,960 --> 01:33:56,799 Speaker 1: coyote in your right, there's you know, and it's that 1745 01:33:56,800 --> 01:33:59,760 Speaker 1: that thing between the city and nature. And I just 1746 01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:02,839 Speaker 1: need to find a way to give my own creative 1747 01:34:02,880 --> 01:34:06,840 Speaker 1: interpretation like those writers did of that time, and this 1748 01:34:06,880 --> 01:34:11,240 Speaker 1: film really represents that for for me. Okay, anybody who 1749 01:34:11,280 --> 01:34:18,599 Speaker 1: refused to be interviewed, not really. I mean, each one 1750 01:34:18,600 --> 01:34:22,479 Speaker 1: of those bands is a documentary in itself. The Beach Boys, 1751 01:34:22,520 --> 01:34:25,160 Speaker 1: the Bird, the Moms and Pop is the Buffalo Springfield. 1752 01:34:25,240 --> 01:34:27,519 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, they all and even some of 1753 01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:31,759 Speaker 1: those individual members. So to try to, you know, build 1754 01:34:31,920 --> 01:34:36,360 Speaker 1: a singular narrative that takes you from the rick and 1755 01:34:36,400 --> 01:34:39,880 Speaker 1: back or twelve string through that sort of period of 1756 01:34:39,880 --> 01:34:42,519 Speaker 1: the bands, you know, to why bands break up, to 1757 01:34:42,640 --> 01:34:47,479 Speaker 1: the search for the individual, you know, kept it narrow 1758 01:34:47,560 --> 01:34:51,360 Speaker 1: and there's no one really else that we wanted to 1759 01:34:51,360 --> 01:34:53,840 Speaker 1: talk to. You know. Again, we we used Neil Young 1760 01:34:53,880 --> 01:34:56,800 Speaker 1: as the sort of metaphor at the end for the 1761 01:34:56,800 --> 01:35:00,080 Speaker 1: search for the individual. You know, when Steven tells you 1762 01:35:00,760 --> 01:35:03,559 Speaker 1: right leaves the band gonna be on TV to be 1763 01:35:03,560 --> 01:35:06,080 Speaker 1: on the Johnny Carson Show, and you know, and expecting 1764 01:35:06,120 --> 01:35:09,120 Speaker 1: to fly was really his warning sign and that, you know, 1765 01:35:09,160 --> 01:35:12,000 Speaker 1: and that is also that is also the song that 1766 01:35:12,120 --> 01:35:15,080 Speaker 1: I feel like his arrangement with Jack Nietsi was a 1767 01:35:15,240 --> 01:35:18,519 Speaker 1: kind of nod to a day in the life on 1768 01:35:18,640 --> 01:35:22,200 Speaker 1: Sergeant Pepper. It's their California version of that, I think, 1769 01:35:22,800 --> 01:35:26,840 Speaker 1: and and that ushers in the psychedelic period in a sense. 1770 01:35:26,880 --> 01:35:29,439 Speaker 1: And and so that's why, you know, that's the end 1771 01:35:29,439 --> 01:35:31,400 Speaker 1: of the movie, and that's the place. How does get 1772 01:35:31,400 --> 01:35:35,160 Speaker 1: in the movie, Well, we were trying to find also 1773 01:35:35,360 --> 01:35:40,360 Speaker 1: the the the arc of how people were influenced in England. 1774 01:35:40,720 --> 01:35:42,519 Speaker 1: You know, we knew the Beatles, look, I mean in 1775 01:35:42,560 --> 01:35:46,360 Speaker 1: the film it you know, you learned that that bells 1776 01:35:46,360 --> 01:35:49,799 Speaker 1: are Rimney by the Birds influenced George Harrison to write 1777 01:35:50,240 --> 01:35:53,639 Speaker 1: if I Needed Someone, which goes on Robert Soul, which 1778 01:35:53,680 --> 01:35:56,599 Speaker 1: Brian Wilson tells you in the film he heard which 1779 01:35:56,600 --> 01:35:59,880 Speaker 1: makes him write pet Sounds, which the Beatles here and 1780 01:36:00,040 --> 01:36:05,680 Speaker 1: day write Sergeant Pepper. And in in doing this, you 1781 01:36:05,680 --> 01:36:07,720 Speaker 1: know the other people that came from England at the time. 1782 01:36:07,760 --> 01:36:09,920 Speaker 1: Obviously Cream was you know, one of the biggest bands 1783 01:36:09,920 --> 01:36:11,920 Speaker 1: in the world at that time English band, along with 1784 01:36:11,920 --> 01:36:15,799 Speaker 1: the Beatles and the Stones. Uh, And we just wanted 1785 01:36:15,840 --> 01:36:19,320 Speaker 1: to we knew he had a connection to California and 1786 01:36:19,360 --> 01:36:24,519 Speaker 1: to Laurel Canyon. And when he tells you that that 1787 01:36:24,880 --> 01:36:27,720 Speaker 1: head Sounds was the thing that the Cream was aspiring 1788 01:36:27,720 --> 01:36:30,519 Speaker 1: to do. I mean, I've never heard that before. And 1789 01:36:30,560 --> 01:36:34,439 Speaker 1: then he tells you that Let It Rain was inspired 1790 01:36:34,439 --> 01:36:38,920 Speaker 1: by Questions, And Stephen tells you that that that Questions 1791 01:36:38,920 --> 01:36:41,880 Speaker 1: was inspired by since you've asked, so the film is 1792 01:36:41,880 --> 01:36:45,200 Speaker 1: really more about the echo of people's ideas than it 1793 01:36:45,240 --> 01:36:47,120 Speaker 1: is about the canyon. The canyon is the place that 1794 01:36:47,320 --> 01:36:50,000 Speaker 1: the canyon is the place where it takes where it 1795 01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:52,639 Speaker 1: all sort of happens. But you know, and the other 1796 01:36:52,680 --> 01:36:55,599 Speaker 1: thing is that that we shot a lot of stuff 1797 01:36:55,680 --> 01:36:58,200 Speaker 1: in the rooms where these things were recorded, and we 1798 01:36:58,320 --> 01:37:01,439 Speaker 1: recorded in those rooms, and you know, to me, having 1799 01:37:01,439 --> 01:37:04,799 Speaker 1: worked there a lot in my life with Macy, with Fiona, 1800 01:37:05,120 --> 01:37:10,439 Speaker 1: with the Wallflowers, I I always was so humbled by 1801 01:37:10,479 --> 01:37:13,559 Speaker 1: those rooms and the feeling I got when I went 1802 01:37:13,560 --> 01:37:15,840 Speaker 1: in there, and they were always beautiful to me, and 1803 01:37:15,880 --> 01:37:18,080 Speaker 1: so I wanted to shoot them in a way that 1804 01:37:18,120 --> 01:37:21,680 Speaker 1: they could be beautiful because Bob, I don't know if 1805 01:37:21,680 --> 01:37:25,240 Speaker 1: they're going to be here in ten years, because the 1806 01:37:25,400 --> 01:37:29,840 Speaker 1: with the you know, with Hollywood and the expansion of Hollywood, 1807 01:37:30,479 --> 01:37:32,960 Speaker 1: a single story building on Sunset's worth a lot of 1808 01:37:33,080 --> 01:37:35,280 Speaker 1: land value, and I just don't know if those guys 1809 01:37:35,320 --> 01:37:37,360 Speaker 1: are going to be able to hold out when somebody says, 1810 01:37:37,400 --> 01:37:40,800 Speaker 1: here's fifty million bucks. And you know, so remember that 1811 01:37:41,040 --> 01:37:43,680 Speaker 1: the human voice. What we love about the human voe, 1812 01:37:43,720 --> 01:37:47,000 Speaker 1: what we love about Sinatra, you know. Besides the tone 1813 01:37:47,040 --> 01:37:50,400 Speaker 1: of his voice is what happens when an echo chamber, 1814 01:37:50,439 --> 01:37:52,600 Speaker 1: When that voice is projected an echo chamber, that's what 1815 01:37:52,680 --> 01:37:56,200 Speaker 1: gives a voice depth, you know, and in some ways, 1816 01:37:56,240 --> 01:37:59,799 Speaker 1: you know, changes the tonality of things in those rooms. 1817 01:38:00,360 --> 01:38:02,360 Speaker 1: It's sunset sound. I mean, you know, some of them 1818 01:38:02,360 --> 01:38:04,439 Speaker 1: are gone. You know, Columbia Studios is gone. You know, 1819 01:38:04,520 --> 01:38:06,680 Speaker 1: gold Stars, Brian tells you he loved the echo of 1820 01:38:06,720 --> 01:38:09,000 Speaker 1: gold Star. That's gone, but those rooms still have it. 1821 01:38:09,560 --> 01:38:11,599 Speaker 1: In fact, I ran into I was at book soup 1822 01:38:11,680 --> 01:38:15,400 Speaker 1: and I ran into Jimmy Page, who I only no peripherally. 1823 01:38:15,520 --> 01:38:17,559 Speaker 1: I don't really know him, but I ran into him 1824 01:38:17,560 --> 01:38:21,080 Speaker 1: a couple of times, and we were talking about we 1825 01:38:21,080 --> 01:38:25,120 Speaker 1: were talking about Bells are Rimney because he had done 1826 01:38:25,479 --> 01:38:27,960 Speaker 1: a I think he recorded a version of Bells round 1827 01:38:27,960 --> 01:38:29,080 Speaker 1: the end. We were talking about and he said, you 1828 01:38:29,080 --> 01:38:33,040 Speaker 1: know the bells from me that guitar Mcquin's guitar that 1829 01:38:33,200 --> 01:38:36,160 Speaker 1: sounds like the echo chambered studio on its sunset sound, 1830 01:38:36,200 --> 01:38:39,080 Speaker 1: doesn't it? And you know, so for him and for 1831 01:38:39,200 --> 01:38:42,080 Speaker 1: Mick and Makers to to have that specific a sense 1832 01:38:42,120 --> 01:38:44,960 Speaker 1: about it, like it was a Strata barius, you know, 1833 01:38:45,040 --> 01:38:49,040 Speaker 1: I has a specific guitar. Is is something powerful? So 1834 01:38:49,240 --> 01:38:52,559 Speaker 1: you know, Echo in the Canyon is you know, hopefully 1835 01:38:52,640 --> 01:38:55,519 Speaker 1: a documentation of of of a great moment in Los 1836 01:38:55,520 --> 01:39:00,479 Speaker 1: Angeles history. Okay, Brian Wilson is surprisingly loose see it 1837 01:39:00,560 --> 01:39:02,920 Speaker 1: in your movie? Did you just get them when he 1838 01:39:03,000 --> 01:39:05,599 Speaker 1: was locked on? Or was he loosened the whole time 1839 01:39:05,600 --> 01:39:09,960 Speaker 1: you interviewed him. Well, I'll tell you. When we went 1840 01:39:10,040 --> 01:39:13,040 Speaker 1: to talk to Brian, I had never met him, and 1841 01:39:13,120 --> 01:39:15,479 Speaker 1: even though I had you know, rand Capital for seven 1842 01:39:15,560 --> 01:39:18,080 Speaker 1: years and we put out sounds of the summer and stuff. 1843 01:39:18,120 --> 01:39:20,960 Speaker 1: But I said to somebody who was friends with him, Hey, 1844 01:39:21,439 --> 01:39:23,719 Speaker 1: you know what, what what should I do here? Because 1845 01:39:23,920 --> 01:39:26,479 Speaker 1: you know I worshiped the guy and you know, I 1846 01:39:26,479 --> 01:39:28,479 Speaker 1: mean and Bob. When you think about it, the Beatles 1847 01:39:28,520 --> 01:39:31,439 Speaker 1: had George Martin, and George Martin was the arranger. The 1848 01:39:31,479 --> 01:39:34,360 Speaker 1: Beach Boys had Brian Wilson. That was all in his head. 1849 01:39:34,439 --> 01:39:38,800 Speaker 1: He was standing there with those you know, incredible musicians, 1850 01:39:38,880 --> 01:39:42,120 Speaker 1: string players, the Wrecking Crew adults, and he was his 1851 01:39:42,320 --> 01:39:45,080 Speaker 1: kid with these ideas. So I just, you know, the 1852 01:39:45,080 --> 01:39:49,120 Speaker 1: the magnitude of of that I had to kind of, 1853 01:39:49,720 --> 01:39:53,759 Speaker 1: you know, put aside to get to capture the stuff 1854 01:39:53,760 --> 01:39:55,640 Speaker 1: on film. And I said to somebody, hey, when we 1855 01:39:55,680 --> 01:39:59,680 Speaker 1: talked to him, you know what, what what do we do? Like? 1856 01:40:00,200 --> 01:40:01,840 Speaker 1: What you like? And what is it? And he said, well, 1857 01:40:01,840 --> 01:40:05,680 Speaker 1: you know, Brian, he loves food, you know, don't you know, 1858 01:40:05,760 --> 01:40:08,439 Speaker 1: don't just launch into some stuff like talk to him. 1859 01:40:08,439 --> 01:40:11,880 Speaker 1: I said, okay, So when Brian came to the set, 1860 01:40:12,800 --> 01:40:15,880 Speaker 1: he sat down and you do the interview, and I said, 1861 01:40:15,960 --> 01:40:17,960 Speaker 1: and you know, he knew I had worked there. You know, 1862 01:40:18,120 --> 01:40:20,040 Speaker 1: somebody told him i'd worked there. And I said, hey, man, 1863 01:40:20,080 --> 01:40:22,200 Speaker 1: you you work at the studio and he goes, oh yeah. 1864 01:40:22,520 --> 01:40:25,759 Speaker 1: I said you like chicken? He goes, I love chicken. 1865 01:40:27,120 --> 01:40:29,360 Speaker 1: I said, you know, this is this chicken place called 1866 01:40:29,439 --> 01:40:32,720 Speaker 1: al Wazire Chicken. You know this down the street. You 1867 01:40:32,760 --> 01:40:35,479 Speaker 1: ever had it? He no. I go, oh man, this 1868 01:40:35,560 --> 01:40:37,200 Speaker 1: is the best. I used to eat this stuff every day. 1869 01:40:37,200 --> 01:40:40,200 Speaker 1: This is the best chicken in Hollywood. And he was like, oh, 1870 01:40:40,680 --> 01:40:43,280 Speaker 1: we had we did ten minutes on Alba's here Chicken 1871 01:40:43,760 --> 01:40:48,160 Speaker 1: and you know, and then luckily, you know, he didn't 1872 01:40:48,200 --> 01:40:50,920 Speaker 1: have to answer for the fiftieth time how you know 1873 01:40:51,040 --> 01:40:54,880 Speaker 1: how genius the arrangement and good Vibrations was okay, but 1874 01:40:54,960 --> 01:40:57,600 Speaker 1: you know they're playing and I forget the song. I 1875 01:40:57,680 --> 01:41:00,800 Speaker 1: just wasn't made for these times, right, And he says, uh, 1876 01:41:00,840 --> 01:41:04,040 Speaker 1: you know what key? He immediately knows what key and 1877 01:41:04,080 --> 01:41:06,439 Speaker 1: what they're playing. It not a change. It's like, you know, 1878 01:41:06,479 --> 01:41:09,720 Speaker 1: it's like a lightning striking from the sky. Well, I 1879 01:41:09,760 --> 01:41:12,080 Speaker 1: don't hope Brian well enough to tell you if this 1880 01:41:12,160 --> 01:41:14,920 Speaker 1: is true, But you know, maybe he just doesn't want 1881 01:41:14,920 --> 01:41:17,040 Speaker 1: to talk to everybody, so he goes to that. You know, 1882 01:41:17,160 --> 01:41:19,360 Speaker 1: if he wants to talk to you, he'll talk to you. 1883 01:41:19,400 --> 01:41:21,960 Speaker 1: And if he's doesn't, he'll just kind of say, well, 1884 01:41:22,040 --> 01:41:24,080 Speaker 1: I'm Brian, and then I'm not going to give it 1885 01:41:24,080 --> 01:41:25,920 Speaker 1: to you. Well, actually a new movie is coming out. 1886 01:41:26,120 --> 01:41:29,200 Speaker 1: Interview with Brian Wilson, the editor Jason Fine of Rolling 1887 01:41:29,200 --> 01:41:32,320 Speaker 1: Stone Shirt goes around in a car. I'll save the 1888 01:41:32,320 --> 01:41:35,920 Speaker 1: story for him, but making the movie, Okay, what are 1889 01:41:35,960 --> 01:41:40,800 Speaker 1: two things you learned that you didn't know? That I 1890 01:41:40,840 --> 01:41:43,559 Speaker 1: have to have a lot of respect for filmmakers because 1891 01:41:43,640 --> 01:41:49,680 Speaker 1: it is a incredibly difficult job, and that I probably 1892 01:41:49,880 --> 01:41:52,200 Speaker 1: could not have done it in any point in my 1893 01:41:52,280 --> 01:41:54,759 Speaker 1: life if I had not done every job in a writer, 1894 01:41:55,120 --> 01:41:58,400 Speaker 1: in a record producer and a musician and an executive, 1895 01:41:58,439 --> 01:42:01,000 Speaker 1: because of what it takes to really piece it together. 1896 01:42:01,160 --> 01:42:05,759 Speaker 1: So you know, I also learned that the film business 1897 01:42:06,080 --> 01:42:10,800 Speaker 1: is UH is a difficult place, and music business is 1898 01:42:10,880 --> 01:42:15,640 Speaker 1: like a playground that I can go on. And but 1899 01:42:15,720 --> 01:42:17,160 Speaker 1: that would be a different riff. You know. The way 1900 01:42:17,160 --> 01:42:20,760 Speaker 1: I always say is, you know, you could everybody can 1901 01:42:20,800 --> 01:42:23,280 Speaker 1: listen to a record and whether the person be ten 1902 01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:27,120 Speaker 1: or seventy five, they'll say, well, had a good beat, 1903 01:42:27,120 --> 01:42:28,960 Speaker 1: and I could dance to it. But you put a 1904 01:42:29,000 --> 01:42:31,720 Speaker 1: five year old in front of a TV show and say, well, 1905 01:42:31,760 --> 01:42:34,680 Speaker 1: the plot wasn't believable. I didn't like that. Everybody's got 1906 01:42:34,680 --> 01:42:37,600 Speaker 1: a damn viewpoint in the film business, never mind the 1907 01:42:37,640 --> 01:42:40,599 Speaker 1: money in the distribution. I will tell you that there 1908 01:42:40,640 --> 01:42:45,040 Speaker 1: were people who said to me, just put the concert footage. 1909 01:42:45,280 --> 01:42:47,519 Speaker 1: What is all this stuff with the thing with the eck? 1910 01:42:47,760 --> 01:42:51,200 Speaker 1: Come on? And I was like, oh god, I do 1911 01:42:51,320 --> 01:42:55,200 Speaker 1: remember this. I remember when I you know, it reminded 1912 01:42:55,240 --> 01:42:58,879 Speaker 1: me of a moment UH when I had first produced 1913 01:42:58,960 --> 01:43:02,839 Speaker 1: Shadow Boxer and Fiona and I went to meet Donnie 1914 01:43:02,840 --> 01:43:06,040 Speaker 1: Ironer and I had the demo there to you know, 1915 01:43:06,160 --> 01:43:08,280 Speaker 1: to get to get the funding to do to do 1916 01:43:08,320 --> 01:43:10,920 Speaker 1: the record. We end of the office and Donnie said, 1917 01:43:11,800 --> 01:43:16,080 Speaker 1: that's fantastic. This is just like visions of Love, Mariah Carrie. 1918 01:43:16,400 --> 01:43:18,160 Speaker 1: You know, visions that's what you need to make this. 1919 01:43:18,200 --> 01:43:19,640 Speaker 1: You need to make this. You don't listen to them, 1920 01:43:20,160 --> 01:43:23,479 Speaker 1: I need to make visions of love. And Fiona looked 1921 01:43:23,520 --> 01:43:26,280 Speaker 1: at me like with horror on her face as we 1922 01:43:26,280 --> 01:43:28,320 Speaker 1: were walking out of there, and I, you know, because 1923 01:43:28,320 --> 01:43:30,679 Speaker 1: I had said, oh, okay, yeah, it's just like ah 1924 01:43:30,720 --> 01:43:32,559 Speaker 1: six eight, it's a waltz all so yeah, I see 1925 01:43:32,560 --> 01:43:35,040 Speaker 1: where you're going with this. Yeah. Yeah, And you know, 1926 01:43:35,080 --> 01:43:37,120 Speaker 1: I walked out the office and to me like what 1927 01:43:37,200 --> 01:43:38,720 Speaker 1: and I was like no, no, no no, no, no, no no. 1928 01:43:38,800 --> 01:43:40,360 Speaker 1: We just tell him, yes, we just get the money. 1929 01:43:40,400 --> 01:43:43,120 Speaker 1: What do we want? You know. But the same thing 1930 01:43:43,320 --> 01:43:45,080 Speaker 1: in the film business, you know, when you're trying to 1931 01:43:45,120 --> 01:43:48,880 Speaker 1: get money from people, you just you know, unfortunately, you 1932 01:43:48,960 --> 01:43:50,360 Speaker 1: have to be right. I mean, you know, you have 1933 01:43:50,400 --> 01:43:52,920 Speaker 1: to have something that has success because because if you're wrong, 1934 01:43:52,960 --> 01:43:55,720 Speaker 1: they never talked to you again. Luckily, in the music business, 1935 01:43:55,760 --> 01:43:58,320 Speaker 1: you know, I people made money every time I asked 1936 01:43:58,400 --> 01:44:00,640 Speaker 1: them for money and they get give me money to 1937 01:44:00,680 --> 01:44:04,000 Speaker 1: do things. Um, I was only doing things, and I 1938 01:44:04,160 --> 01:44:07,080 Speaker 1: thought I could, you know, make something interesting. But the 1939 01:44:07,120 --> 01:44:09,840 Speaker 1: film thing is very was was very tough, and because 1940 01:44:09,840 --> 01:44:13,840 Speaker 1: it takes more money, and and you you know, when 1941 01:44:13,880 --> 01:44:18,400 Speaker 1: you make a song as a producer, you listen down 1942 01:44:18,560 --> 01:44:20,759 Speaker 1: three minutes, you know what you got, You go to sleep, 1943 01:44:20,840 --> 01:44:22,960 Speaker 1: you wake up the next day, you listen three minutes. 1944 01:44:23,560 --> 01:44:25,720 Speaker 1: You get to a certain point when you're making a film. 1945 01:44:25,800 --> 01:44:28,240 Speaker 1: You have to watch the hour and a half film 1946 01:44:28,280 --> 01:44:31,559 Speaker 1: to know what's going on. And in the course of 1947 01:44:31,600 --> 01:44:33,559 Speaker 1: making this film, there were things that I really wanted 1948 01:44:33,560 --> 01:44:35,680 Speaker 1: to cover. I wanted to cover the sunset strip and 1949 01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:37,679 Speaker 1: love in the beginning of garage rock. And I wanted 1950 01:44:37,680 --> 01:44:40,320 Speaker 1: to cover the Monkeys because they were you know, Hollywood 1951 01:44:40,360 --> 01:44:44,439 Speaker 1: interpretation of the Beatles. And and you realize that as 1952 01:44:44,479 --> 01:44:47,599 Speaker 1: the narrative is being developed, and as you're you're sitting there, 1953 01:44:48,000 --> 01:44:50,360 Speaker 1: somebody becomes an elbow and it becomes too long, and 1954 01:44:50,400 --> 01:44:52,840 Speaker 1: it could be two minutes, but you've got to watch 1955 01:44:52,840 --> 01:44:55,960 Speaker 1: an hour and a half all the time to really 1956 01:44:56,000 --> 01:44:58,000 Speaker 1: get it. Just like a song, you know, when you 1957 01:44:58,080 --> 01:45:00,679 Speaker 1: think the bridge is too long or turn and it's 1958 01:45:00,720 --> 01:45:03,880 Speaker 1: so you think you watched it, I have to say 1959 01:45:04,400 --> 01:45:07,840 Speaker 1: five hundred. I mean, it just it's what it's what 1960 01:45:07,960 --> 01:45:10,000 Speaker 1: it takes. And when you're doing the sound, and when 1961 01:45:10,000 --> 01:45:12,240 Speaker 1: you're doing the mix and you're doing dialogue and you 1962 01:45:12,320 --> 01:45:14,320 Speaker 1: have to do then you have to do the the 1963 01:45:14,439 --> 01:45:17,320 Speaker 1: underscore and the dialogue and the some of the effects 1964 01:45:17,320 --> 01:45:19,439 Speaker 1: that you're using, and you know, then the mix, the 1965 01:45:19,439 --> 01:45:22,439 Speaker 1: mix changes things. So you know, it's like it's like 1966 01:45:23,080 --> 01:45:26,880 Speaker 1: three D record making. You know, it's not five one. 1967 01:45:27,080 --> 01:45:28,759 Speaker 1: You know, it's not a five one mix of record 1968 01:45:28,800 --> 01:45:31,479 Speaker 1: because you've got picture and you and and you've got 1969 01:45:31,479 --> 01:45:33,479 Speaker 1: the color of the picture, and you know all the 1970 01:45:33,560 --> 01:45:35,360 Speaker 1: time you've got old footage and you want to try 1971 01:45:35,400 --> 01:45:39,280 Speaker 1: to blend things. And so I love the process of that. 1972 01:45:39,520 --> 01:45:41,840 Speaker 1: I love being able to create it. I I love 1973 01:45:41,880 --> 01:45:43,600 Speaker 1: that somebody gave me the opportunity and gave me the 1974 01:45:43,640 --> 01:45:45,080 Speaker 1: money to do it. And I hope I can make 1975 01:45:45,120 --> 01:45:49,360 Speaker 1: their money back for them, Like would you make another movie? Well, 1976 01:45:49,400 --> 01:45:54,599 Speaker 1: I have the rights to to uh to another film 1977 01:45:54,840 --> 01:45:57,760 Speaker 1: and and to another story, another music story, and I 1978 01:45:57,960 --> 01:46:04,040 Speaker 1: and I'm a little beat up to beg for three years. 1979 01:46:04,040 --> 01:46:06,400 Speaker 1: Well yeah, you know so, I but I do want 1980 01:46:06,439 --> 01:46:08,920 Speaker 1: to do it. I mean, the miraculous thing about this 1981 01:46:09,160 --> 01:46:13,360 Speaker 1: film is that somebody decided they liked it and they 1982 01:46:13,400 --> 01:46:16,559 Speaker 1: were going to put it at the Cinerama Dome, and 1983 01:46:16,840 --> 01:46:18,479 Speaker 1: you know, and that's where the arc Light wants to 1984 01:46:18,479 --> 01:46:21,360 Speaker 1: show him in the arc Light. They you can't really 1985 01:46:21,600 --> 01:46:23,920 Speaker 1: tell them what to do. They know they have the 1986 01:46:23,960 --> 01:46:27,280 Speaker 1: best movie theater in America. And you know, obviously the 1987 01:46:27,360 --> 01:46:29,600 Speaker 1: Landmark has a you know, has a great game has 1988 01:46:29,640 --> 01:46:32,559 Speaker 1: a great theater here too. So I am just, uh, 1989 01:46:33,880 --> 01:46:37,479 Speaker 1: you know, not shocked, but but really in awe the 1990 01:46:37,520 --> 01:46:41,000 Speaker 1: fact that the place that premiered Apocalypse Now and e 1991 01:46:41,240 --> 01:46:45,679 Speaker 1: T and Star Wars uh, and it's the premier movie 1992 01:46:45,720 --> 01:46:48,519 Speaker 1: house in America. It's eight hundred seats. It's when you 1993 01:46:48,560 --> 01:46:52,280 Speaker 1: go in there, it's incredible that they wanted to show 1994 01:46:52,320 --> 01:46:54,240 Speaker 1: the film there and premiere the film there. So I'm 1995 01:46:54,360 --> 01:46:59,040 Speaker 1: that's Ma's And then how long untill people the rest 1996 01:46:59,040 --> 01:47:02,000 Speaker 1: of the country can see? Uh? It opens in New 1997 01:47:02,080 --> 01:47:05,760 Speaker 1: York had May thirty one, after that at the at 1998 01:47:05,800 --> 01:47:08,639 Speaker 1: the Angelica and at the Landmark of Town, and then 1999 01:47:08,680 --> 01:47:12,360 Speaker 1: it goes to San Francisco, San Diego, Chicago, Boston and 2000 01:47:12,400 --> 01:47:15,479 Speaker 1: all the cities in June fourteen one, and as of 2001 01:47:15,560 --> 01:47:18,320 Speaker 1: now it's a it's at fifty cities. But the one 2002 01:47:18,400 --> 01:47:26,040 Speaker 1: good thing about what's happening on if this is relevant, uh, 2003 01:47:26,400 --> 01:47:30,320 Speaker 1: the band is going to play music that night. After 2004 01:47:30,800 --> 01:47:33,759 Speaker 1: the performance, they're gonna we're gonna do music four nights 2005 01:47:33,960 --> 01:47:36,880 Speaker 1: in the in the cineramadon which they've never done four 2006 01:47:36,960 --> 01:47:39,679 Speaker 1: nights in a row. And on one of those nights, 2007 01:47:39,680 --> 01:47:42,280 Speaker 1: Steven Stills is going to play, and Cat Power's gonna play, 2008 01:47:42,280 --> 01:47:45,840 Speaker 1: and Jacob's gonna play, and it's it's it's gonna be. Uh, 2009 01:47:45,920 --> 01:47:49,160 Speaker 1: it's gonna be a great celebratory event with the old 2010 01:47:49,200 --> 01:47:52,479 Speaker 1: and the new. Okay, you've been wonderful, Andy. You know 2011 01:47:52,520 --> 01:47:54,360 Speaker 1: we could really go on for hours. You've done a 2012 01:47:54,400 --> 01:47:57,880 Speaker 1: good job of telling your story and keeping it in interesting. 2013 01:47:59,120 --> 01:48:01,760 Speaker 1: That's the Andy s leader, writer and director of the 2014 01:48:01,800 --> 01:48:04,040 Speaker 1: new film Echo in the Canyon, and you've heard in 2015 01:48:04,080 --> 01:48:07,759 Speaker 1: the podcast all the other things he's accomplishing the music business. Andy, 2016 01:48:07,840 --> 01:48:10,840 Speaker 1: thanks for coming. Thank you, Bob. Okay, until next time, 2017 01:48:11,200 --> 01:48:13,080 Speaker 1: it's the Bob Left Sets Podcast.