WEBVTT - Ep 163 Circadian Rhythm: Live from Perth, Australia

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<v Speaker 1>Good morning, Erinds.

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning everyone, and thank you for the invitation to

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<v Speaker 2>come and share a story that I went through my career.

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<v Speaker 2>In twenty twelve, I was an intern back in Dublin

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<v Speaker 2>in a large teaching hospital. I was six months after

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<v Speaker 2>finishing my intern year, aged twenty three, and I was

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<v Speaker 2>working in a busy surgical unit. It was January and

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<v Speaker 2>I was woken up about six am to go and

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<v Speaker 2>start my journey to work. As I've gone to work,

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<v Speaker 2>I've where in mind.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a Thursday.

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<v Speaker 2>I've already undertaken about thirty six hours of work within

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<v Speaker 2>this work week from Monday, and I'm about to go

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<v Speaker 2>and start on another Thursday. I feel I'm relatively well rested,

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<v Speaker 2>but I know that I'm not feeling particularly good going

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<v Speaker 2>in to start a very large shift, which I'm going

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<v Speaker 2>to elaborate on a little bit now. At six point thirty,

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<v Speaker 2>I arrive into work and I undertake results checking. We

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<v Speaker 2>look at all the results of our patients from the

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<v Speaker 2>day before, recent blood tests, recent scan results, and ultimately

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<v Speaker 2>to prepare for the ward round when our surgeons and

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<v Speaker 2>the consultants and the senior doctors will start undertaking looking

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<v Speaker 2>at every patient on their list. At seven o'clock, we

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<v Speaker 2>start sharp and we finish about eight o'clock. And at

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<v Speaker 2>eight o'clock those senior surgeons will head off to surgery,

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<v Speaker 2>and us as the junior doctors, will then undertake.

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<v Speaker 1>The tasks of the day.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll look at organizing consultations, We'll be writing letters, discharging patients,

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<v Speaker 2>admitting new ones, and then deal with problems as they

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<v Speaker 2>occur on the wards. It's fast paced. It's a busy unit,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's something.

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<v Speaker 1>That I thrive.

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<v Speaker 2>I enjoy the challenges as they present. I really am

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<v Speaker 2>passionate about the work and I'm very happy to work

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<v Speaker 2>in such a busy environment. Even though you might only

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<v Speaker 2>be getting twenty minutes for a quick lunch break, you

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<v Speaker 2>feel very valued, You feel wanted and a key cog

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<v Speaker 2>in that machine of the hospital. But there's very much

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<v Speaker 2>a drive. You have to have the work done and

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<v Speaker 2>it has to be done correctly. It's got to be

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<v Speaker 2>done with precision, because at the end of the day,

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<v Speaker 2>patient care depends on it. As the day continues, we

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<v Speaker 2>tick over to about quarter to six in the evening,

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<v Speaker 2>and then the surgeons are starting to come out of

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<v Speaker 2>theater and then we start doing a further round through

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<v Speaker 2>the hospital again of all the patients that have been

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<v Speaker 2>under the lists, of the surgeons whom have operated, and

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<v Speaker 2>those who are still waiting after their operations. These rounds

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<v Speaker 2>then can finish about quarter past seven. So bear in

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<v Speaker 2>minds I've been in the hospital since six point thirty

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<v Speaker 2>and it's now quarter past seven at night, and then

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<v Speaker 2>start the next part of my shift. And back in

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twelve, we were routinely rostered to do twenty four hours,

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<v Speaker 2>So I will then move from my day job to

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<v Speaker 2>then providing night cover in the tertiary hospital, of which

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<v Speaker 2>there are only four interns. All of us have only

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<v Speaker 2>done six months prior, and we're all fresh out of college,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe twenty three, twenty four to twenty five. We each

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<v Speaker 2>cover in the region about one hundred and eighty patients,

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<v Speaker 2>each with one senior doctor to call upon for assistance

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<v Speaker 2>as we go.

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<v Speaker 1>Through the night.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, usually you would get a scattering of sleep here

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<v Speaker 2>or there of a few hours, maybe hold each other's pages.

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<v Speaker 2>This particular night in question, that was not going to

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<v Speaker 2>be one of those cases. We were dealing with six

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<v Speaker 2>patients across the hospital and in my particular area that

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<v Speaker 2>I was looking after I know offhand I was dealing

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<v Speaker 2>with the patient who was having an acute stroke on

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<v Speaker 2>the middle of the ward, as well as a patient

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<v Speaker 2>who was bleeding post operatively on the ward and trying

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<v Speaker 2>to get them back to theater for emergency surgery. Jobs

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<v Speaker 2>kept creeping up as we went through the night, and

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<v Speaker 2>they did not stop. But then we were getting to

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<v Speaker 2>six point thirty in the morning, and I was then

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<v Speaker 2>starting to get set for the next ward round, which my.

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<v Speaker 1>Team were getting prepared for.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's at that point that I've been notified that

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<v Speaker 2>we have a sick doctor on and I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>be required to stay, and my boss has asked me

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<v Speaker 2>to stay and conduct surgery with them. Now, I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>a surgeon, and I'm working under complete supervision of very

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<v Speaker 2>senior surgeons at the time. I'm not putting any patient

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<v Speaker 2>within risk because I'm simply holding a retractor. I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>doing anything that's going to be compromising them. It is

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<v Speaker 2>simply to be able to hold something in theater and

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<v Speaker 2>provide that extra bit of support so the surgeon and

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<v Speaker 2>their assistant can do their work under full supervision. At

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<v Speaker 2>that time, I finished and wrapped up about eleven thirty

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<v Speaker 2>in the morning and I'm excused, at which point I've

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<v Speaker 2>probably been awake for about twenty nine hours and scatterings

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<v Speaker 2>of sleep here or there. I make the decision to

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<v Speaker 2>drive home, and nobody forced me to make this decision.

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<v Speaker 2>I took that completely on myself. And as I'm driving

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<v Speaker 2>down the Grand Canal in Dublin, I fall asleep at

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<v Speaker 2>the wheel and I wake up with a jolt and

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<v Speaker 2>I've put my car into the back of a large

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<v Speaker 2>Dublin bus. I get out of the car, look at

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<v Speaker 2>the smashed windscreen, completely obliterated bonnet, and smoke coming up

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<v Speaker 2>the engine. I'm shaking. I'm uninjured, but really fraught with

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<v Speaker 2>anxiety and just fear of what's happened. I call my dad,

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<v Speaker 2>who's been a fantastic wealth of wealth of advice and

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<v Speaker 2>support for me over the years, who helps me to

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<v Speaker 2>navigate the situation in relation to getting insurance, calling retrieval authorities, etc.

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<v Speaker 2>To get the cars off the road. He slowly makes

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<v Speaker 2>his way to come and see me on the Grand

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<v Speaker 2>Canal dock, and as traffic starts to move on, we

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<v Speaker 2>get the daggered looks of the frustrated drivers whose days

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<v Speaker 2>have been interrupted by my accident. But my dad has

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<v Speaker 2>been a wealth of advice over the years, says to

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<v Speaker 2>me is that this has been a very valuable learning

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<v Speaker 2>curve for you, and you've gone through it without anybody

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<v Speaker 2>being injured. And for me, that was what was really interesting,

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<v Speaker 2>was because now as I reflect back on that, my

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<v Speaker 2>life could have taken a very different turn. Not only

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<v Speaker 2>was I uninjured, but I did not injure anybody else.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's something that it really does strike fear in

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<v Speaker 2>me that I didn't only put myself in a position

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<v Speaker 2>of danger, but I put others in danger and it

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<v Speaker 2>only cost me the price of my car, not the

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<v Speaker 2>cost of someone's life or my own life, and leaving

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<v Speaker 2>a family potentially having an injured family member or even

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<v Speaker 2>my own family where they would have to have dealt

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<v Speaker 2>with my debt because of the decision I made. But

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<v Speaker 2>in reality, I was far too fatigued to make that

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<v Speaker 2>decision correctly. And as I said, no one forced me

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<v Speaker 2>to do this. This was something that I did on

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<v Speaker 2>my own bat and it's something I reflect on every

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<v Speaker 2>day as I go to work, whether I'm making sure

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<v Speaker 2>that I am not in a position where I can

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<v Speaker 2>make an error like.

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<v Speaker 3>That again, that is just a terrifying and very relatable story.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm glad that you were okay.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm glad everything turned out okay, and just thank you

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<v Speaker 3>very much for sharing the story with us.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, thank you. We're so glad, like you said that

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<v Speaker 4>the accident wasn't worse than it was, and we really

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<v Speaker 4>appreciate you sharing it with everybody here today. I think

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<v Speaker 4>it's something that unfortunately a lot of us can probably

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<v Speaker 4>relate to. So thank you so much, thank.

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<v Speaker 5>You for having me. Thank you. Hi.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm Aaron Welsh and I'm a'm an update and.

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<v Speaker 3>This is this podcast will kill You and we are

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<v Speaker 3>coming to you live with our very first recorded live

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<v Speaker 3>episode from Perth, Australia, The Lovely Perth. We're here at

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<v Speaker 3>the twenty twenty four AIOH Annual Scientific Conference and Exhibition

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<v Speaker 3>and we are just thrilled to be here.

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<v Speaker 1>We really are.

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<v Speaker 4>Thank you all so much for having us. A huge

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<v Speaker 4>thank you to Zach and Kelly and David and everybody

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<v Speaker 4>who helped organize this conference. We are truly honored to

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<v Speaker 4>be up here today speaking with you all.

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<v Speaker 3>Really and in light of the fact that we are

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<v Speaker 3>at the annual meeting of the Australian Institute of Occupational Hygienists,

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<v Speaker 3>and we just flew across one million time zones to

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<v Speaker 3>get here, not an exaggeration. We decided to focus on

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<v Speaker 3>a topic that is of central importance to pretty much

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<v Speaker 3>every industry, and that is fatigue, specifically fatigue caused by

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<v Speaker 3>disruption in our circadian rhythms in the context of shift work.

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<v Speaker 4>And because that alone is such a huge topic that

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<v Speaker 4>there's no way that we could fit it all into

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<v Speaker 4>a ninety minute plenary, We're not going to make you

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<v Speaker 4>sit here for one hundred hours. Don't worry, We're going

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<v Speaker 4>to take you through just a few parts of that.

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<v Speaker 4>So first I'm going to focus on what do we

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<v Speaker 4>mean by fatigue, how do we define that, and what

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<v Speaker 4>does that actually mean, how our circadian rhythms actually work,

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<v Speaker 4>and how disruption in circadian rhythms can lead to symptoms

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<v Speaker 4>like fatigue, excessive daytime sleepiness, and so many other chronic

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<v Speaker 4>health conditions.

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<v Speaker 3>And then I'll get into how our understanding of circadian

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<v Speaker 3>rhythms has evolved over time, the changes that led to

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<v Speaker 3>shift work becoming as widespread as it is today, and

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<v Speaker 3>how we came to recognize those negative effects of shift work.

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<v Speaker 3>And then we're going to bring on a subject matter expert,

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<v Speaker 3>doctor Ian Dunkin, who will share some of the current

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<v Speaker 3>exciting research that's going on on circadian rhythms and how

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<v Speaker 3>to combat the negative effects of things like shift work

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<v Speaker 3>and jet lag.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, but first, no episode of our podcast this pla

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<v Speaker 4>I Guess We'll kill you would be complete without a

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<v Speaker 4>beverage that we call a quarantinie or in our case

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<v Speaker 4>of place berta, because we don't have any alcoholic spirits

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<v Speaker 4>in it.

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<v Speaker 1>But we are drinking one today. Today we're drinking TikTok.

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<v Speaker 1>You don't stop get it because it's like a clock. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>it'll be funny. We explain jokes so that they're not

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<v Speaker 1>funny anymore. But in TikTok, you don't stop.

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<v Speaker 4>There.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a delicious beverage consisting of one ingredient, which is

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<v Speaker 3>Australian ginger beer.

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<v Speaker 1>So thank you.

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<v Speaker 3>It's delicious and also easily modified. You can add whatever

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<v Speaker 3>spirit you would like or just leave.

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<v Speaker 1>It with a little bit of lime in there. Delicious.

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<v Speaker 4>Sorry, we should have really had the foresight to make

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<v Speaker 4>a drink for everyone, like under your seats you can

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<v Speaker 4>find oh, my gosh, very Oprah.

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<v Speaker 1>Cheers to you all.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, now, drinks are drunk, shall we We'll get into

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<v Speaker 4>the biology of are circadian with us?

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<v Speaker 1>I can't wait. Yeah, tell me all about it.

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<v Speaker 4>It's going to be fun. So we decided to do

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<v Speaker 4>this talk today on fatigue because it's kind of this

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<v Speaker 4>universal experience that also happens to be an occupational hazard

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<v Speaker 4>in so many different industries.

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<v Speaker 1>Everyone has at.

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<v Speaker 4>Some point been fatigued experienced fatigue. But when we talk

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<v Speaker 4>about this idea, what do we actually mean, Like, how

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<v Speaker 4>do we define fatigue?

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<v Speaker 5>Right?

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<v Speaker 1>It's super easy to define, right, Right, there's not a definition.

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<v Speaker 4>There is not a single definition of fatigue, but there

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<v Speaker 4>are a lot of different definitions. Most of them use

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<v Speaker 4>a lot of synonyms, things like tiredness or exhaustion. Most

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<v Speaker 4>of the definitions include something like the decreased ability to

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<v Speaker 4>function at your normal capacity or something of decreased capacity

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<v Speaker 4>for mental or physical work.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So overall we're.

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<v Speaker 4>Looking at fatigue as this generalized lack of energy that

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<v Speaker 4>overall has some kind of impairment on your ability to function,

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<v Speaker 4>be that your physical function or your cognitive function.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, makes sense?

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, And following but in that definition, what's important about

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<v Speaker 4>it is that we then have to intentionally separate fatigue

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<v Speaker 4>from sleepiness.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, right, And how does one do that?

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<v Speaker 4>How does one do that by defining sleepiness?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, more definitions, more definitions.

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<v Speaker 4>So we can do this by defining sleepiness as directly

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<v Speaker 4>related to the physiologic phenomenon that is the act of

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<v Speaker 4>falling asleep, okay, because that means that it's something that

0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:44.480
<v Speaker 4>we can measure, okay, at least to a better degree

0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:47.720
<v Speaker 4>than we can fatigue, which is so nebulous. Right, And

0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:49.760
<v Speaker 4>we do this. We can measure sleepiness with a couple

0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:54.640
<v Speaker 4>of different tests. There's one called the multiple sleep latency test,

0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:56.240
<v Speaker 4>which is I'm going to put you in a dark

0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:57.880
<v Speaker 4>room and you're going to lay down and fall asleep.

0:12:57.920 --> 0:12:58.800
<v Speaker 4>How long does it take you?

0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:01.160
<v Speaker 1>Wow? Not stressful at all, right.

0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.520
<v Speaker 4>And then there's also the maintenance of wakefulness test, which

0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:08.080
<v Speaker 4>is how long can you stay awake if we sit

0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:09.800
<v Speaker 4>to you in a dark room and ask you to

0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:10.720
<v Speaker 4>not sleep.

0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:13.959
<v Speaker 1>We have to be sitting just sitting with your thoughts

0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:16.800
<v Speaker 1>in a dark room. No, I don't like that idea.

0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:21.480
<v Speaker 4>Now, sleepiness itself like falling asleep, It's not a bad thing.

0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:23.320
<v Speaker 1>Inherently, we have to sleep.

0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:26.640
<v Speaker 4>It is required of all humans, and as humans are

0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:29.120
<v Speaker 4>diurnal species, we have evolved to sleep.

0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.800
<v Speaker 1>At night when it is dark and be awake when

0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:32.320
<v Speaker 1>it is light.

0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.400
<v Speaker 4>So being sleepy at night time itself is not a

0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:39.000
<v Speaker 4>bad thing, but if that sleepiness is happening when we

0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:41.720
<v Speaker 4>shouldn't be asleep, then it can lead to what's called

0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:45.800
<v Speaker 4>excessive daytime sleepiness, or this inability to stay awake during

0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:49.000
<v Speaker 4>hours when you should be awake, and that can be

0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:51.000
<v Speaker 4>bad or, as we heard in our first hand account,

0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:57.000
<v Speaker 4>even downright dangerous. Both excessive sleepiness and fatigue, though they

0:13:57.040 --> 0:14:00.800
<v Speaker 4>are different, and these definitions are important, also kind of

0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:04.520
<v Speaker 4>two halves of a story, and they both contribute to

0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.319
<v Speaker 4>the kinds of accidents and workplace events like we heard

0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:10.559
<v Speaker 4>about in our first hand account. And while circadian rhythm

0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:14.200
<v Speaker 4>disruptions themselves are by no means the only things that

0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:18.520
<v Speaker 4>can cause excessive daytime sleepiness or fatigue, these are two

0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:22.800
<v Speaker 4>of the most immediate consequences that we see from circadian dysfunction.

0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.640
<v Speaker 4>So having a basic understanding of what our circadian rhythms

0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:29.000
<v Speaker 4>are and how they work can go a really long

0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:32.760
<v Speaker 4>way to understanding what happens if they get pushed out

0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:36.960
<v Speaker 4>of sync, which then can lead us to better anticipate

0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.800
<v Speaker 4>the hazards that might be inherent to some professions, or

0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.440
<v Speaker 4>recognize these symptoms when they start to crop up during

0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:48.160
<v Speaker 4>certain phases of life. Hello newborns, Gotta love them. And

0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:52.040
<v Speaker 4>then evaluating and understanding these consequences of this type of

0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:55.600
<v Speaker 4>circadian disruption can help us to actually implement strategies in

0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:58.080
<v Speaker 4>the future to help mitigate some of these.

0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:00.600
<v Speaker 1>Hopefully we'll get there. Yeah, can it be done?

0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:01.960
<v Speaker 5>Can it? So?

0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:04.120
<v Speaker 4>Then, first we have to start with what really is

0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:07.200
<v Speaker 4>circadian rhythm? And I think most people probably have a

0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:08.760
<v Speaker 4>sense of what this.

0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:10.120
<v Speaker 1>Means in their mind right.

0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:13.880
<v Speaker 4>It comes from the Latin circa means about and ds

0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:15.160
<v Speaker 4>or DM means.

0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:19.120
<v Speaker 1>Day stole my line, Yeah, thank you, I try so.

0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:21.800
<v Speaker 4>When we talk about a circadian rhythm, we're talking about

0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:25.400
<v Speaker 4>cycles that are happening in our bodies on an about

0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:28.800
<v Speaker 4>twenty four hour timeframe. And Aaron, I know later you're

0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.600
<v Speaker 4>going to talk about why we have these rhythms. Yeah,

0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.680
<v Speaker 4>like from an evolutionary perspective, yep, what are they.

0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.400
<v Speaker 1>Doing for us? It's they're important? Are they? Let's find

0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:38.359
<v Speaker 1>out yeah.

0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:41.680
<v Speaker 4>But I'm going to focus first on how they actually work.

0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:45.360
<v Speaker 4>And everyone is probably most familiar with a circadian rhythm

0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:48.800
<v Speaker 4>in the context of sleep and our sleep wake cycle,

0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:51.720
<v Speaker 4>because our sleep wake cycle is one of the most

0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:55.600
<v Speaker 4>classic examples of our circadian rhythm in action. So we

0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.840
<v Speaker 4>can see a few different things that oscillate in our

0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:02.760
<v Speaker 4>sleep wake cycles. One of them is something like melotone

0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:05.800
<v Speaker 4>in secretion. So our melotonin peaks in the couple of

0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:08.640
<v Speaker 4>hours before we go to sleep, and then we'll go

0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.960
<v Speaker 4>to sleep, our corticol levels will peak in the morning

0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:13.840
<v Speaker 4>right about the time that we tend to wake up.

0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:17.760
<v Speaker 4>We also see oscillations in our body temperature, with the

0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:20.400
<v Speaker 4>lowest body temperature happening in the wee hours of the

0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:21.720
<v Speaker 4>night while you're still asleep.

0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.480
<v Speaker 1>I just want to ask why for each one of these.

0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.520
<v Speaker 4>I don't have great answers, but I can tell you

0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:31.200
<v Speaker 4>that what these like the why is that these processes

0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:36.560
<v Speaker 4>together are what are driving our drive for wakefulness okay,

0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:40.160
<v Speaker 4>and our pressure for sleep okay. So these three things,

0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:42.240
<v Speaker 4>they're not the only things that are involved in what's

0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:44.920
<v Speaker 4>literally keeping us awake during the day and telling our

0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:46.600
<v Speaker 4>bodies we need to go to sleep at night.

0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:48.440
<v Speaker 1>But these are three of the big.

0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:51.200
<v Speaker 4>Drivers of that drive for wakefulness that happens during the

0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.680
<v Speaker 4>day and that pressure for sleep that happens through like.

0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:56.920
<v Speaker 1>Towards the night. But what's the deal with temperature?

0:16:57.200 --> 0:16:57.360
<v Speaker 5>Oh?

0:16:57.400 --> 0:16:58.840
<v Speaker 1>I don't know? And also what is.

0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.760
<v Speaker 3>That so use the body? But are changes by how

0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:02.480
<v Speaker 3>many degrees?

0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:03.920
<v Speaker 4>I knew you were going to ask that, and I

0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:05.679
<v Speaker 4>meant to like look it up again to try and

0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:06.800
<v Speaker 4>get in. I don't know.

0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:10.920
<v Speaker 3>I don't know that it's twenty it's just the fool Yes,

0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:14.040
<v Speaker 3>like a proportions of a degree.

0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:16.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, we're little changes.

0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:19.080
<v Speaker 4>But it's enough that it's sort of in that period

0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:22.560
<v Speaker 4>when we're close to waking up. That drop in temperature

0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:26.240
<v Speaker 4>is what helps our bodies stay asleep essentially, right, it's colder,

0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:27.640
<v Speaker 4>stay asleep, et cetera.

0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.960
<v Speaker 3>Rkay, Okay, explain why didn't sleep well when I have

0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:32.040
<v Speaker 3>that power?

0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:36.280
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, we're going off track. So, as humans, because we're diurnal,

0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:39.600
<v Speaker 4>we see these particular cycles again on this twenty four

0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.280
<v Speaker 4>hour clock where sleep is happening at dark and a

0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:45.119
<v Speaker 4>week time is happening during the light. So this is

0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:47.200
<v Speaker 4>what we all think of when we think of circadian rhythm.

0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:52.639
<v Speaker 4>But it is not just this our circadian rhythm, like

0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:57.280
<v Speaker 4>literally every single function and process in our bodies from

0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.680
<v Speaker 4>the cellular level, like the genes that are controlling which

0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:03.119
<v Speaker 4>cells are going to divide, when the genes that are

0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.240
<v Speaker 4>controlling DNA repair, does it happen in what cells? And

0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:11.199
<v Speaker 4>when things like our immune system, our metabolism, our hunger cues,

0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:15.919
<v Speaker 4>our bowel movements, our libidos, every function in our body

0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:20.160
<v Speaker 4>is controlled to one degree or another by circadian processes.

0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:22.960
<v Speaker 1>It's like the ultimate but weight. There's more. It's not

0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:25.879
<v Speaker 1>just sleepwake, it's everything.

0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:29.960
<v Speaker 4>Everything, and these all are our circadian rhythms. It's not

0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.639
<v Speaker 4>just sleep, but sleep is a big part of our

0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:37.879
<v Speaker 4>circadian rhythm. And these circadian rhythms are mechoganized internally in

0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:42.320
<v Speaker 4>our bodies by what's called an intrinsic circadian clock. But

0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:46.480
<v Speaker 4>not just one clock. We have multiple clocks. We have

0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:48.760
<v Speaker 4>a main clock in the part of our brain that's

0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:50.919
<v Speaker 4>called the super chismatic nucleus.

0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.080
<v Speaker 3>I'm really glad that you pronounced this because I just

0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:55.879
<v Speaker 3>wrote SCN over and over again.

0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:59.120
<v Speaker 1>I don't even know if I talk about SCN. But no,

0:18:58.240 --> 0:18:59.359
<v Speaker 1>now I.

0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:02.480
<v Speaker 4>Know how to pronounce the SCN or the super chismatic nucleus,

0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:05.159
<v Speaker 4>and this region in our brain functions as like a

0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.320
<v Speaker 4>master regulator of our internal clock. But all of our

0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:11.359
<v Speaker 4>peripheral cells and tissues, they all have clocks of their own,

0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:16.480
<v Speaker 4>and together all these clocks drive our many many circadian rhythms,

0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:19.399
<v Speaker 4>in large part by the build up and then the

0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:25.639
<v Speaker 4>breakdown of specific proteins whose literal job it is to

0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:30.639
<v Speaker 4>be made build up and then break down on a

0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.480
<v Speaker 4>twenty four hour cycle to keep these clocks all in

0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:34.320
<v Speaker 4>sync with each other.

0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:35.600
<v Speaker 1>Okay, does that make sense?

0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:39.439
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's like pretty basic, right, super simple.

0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:41.240
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure it took no time at all to figure

0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:41.520
<v Speaker 1>that out.

0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:45.159
<v Speaker 4>No, no, no, So that's how these circadian clocks are working

0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:48.120
<v Speaker 4>on like a cellular level. And I said that these

0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:52.000
<v Speaker 4>are intrinsic, and we know that these are intrinsic because

0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:54.920
<v Speaker 4>these cycles will persist on an.

0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:56.760
<v Speaker 1>About twenty four hour basis.

0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:59.680
<v Speaker 4>In humans, it's a little long. We tend to run

0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:01.960
<v Speaker 4>about twenty four hours and ten minutes.

0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:03.520
<v Speaker 1>I got eleven in here.

0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.440
<v Speaker 4>Eleven minutes, eleven minutes, nine to eleven is what the

0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:07.760
<v Speaker 4>literature says.

0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:10.280
<v Speaker 3>We can have a rate anywhere from nine to eleven

0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:12.440
<v Speaker 3>minutes and twenty four hours.

0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:15.280
<v Speaker 4>And twenty four hours and eleven minutes nine to eleven

0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.320
<v Speaker 4>and our clocks keep doing this even if we put

0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.280
<v Speaker 4>someone in a dark room with absolutely no external environmental

0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:25.000
<v Speaker 4>clue cues like in absence of the environment, our clocks

0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:30.480
<v Speaker 4>still run. However, these environmental cues are in fact an

0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:34.720
<v Speaker 4>essential part of our circadian rhythm because a lot like clocks,

0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:39.200
<v Speaker 4>old tiny clocks, not new fangled watches which work by magic.

0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:41.439
<v Speaker 1>Is how my magic I watch works.

0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:45.600
<v Speaker 4>Okay, old tiny clocks mechanical ones you used to have

0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:48.520
<v Speaker 4>to wind in order for them to keep correct time.

0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:52.720
<v Speaker 4>Our circadian clocks also have to be wound in order

0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:55.360
<v Speaker 4>to keep them on as close to a twenty four

0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:58.600
<v Speaker 4>hour cycle as possible, and this happens through a process

0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:02.919
<v Speaker 4>called entrainment. And the environmental cues that we use for

0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:08.000
<v Speaker 4>entrainment in our circadian clocks are called zight gabers. Which

0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:12.120
<v Speaker 4>is my attempt at German, and that is German for timegiver.

0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:12.960
<v Speaker 1>How'd she do?

0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:14.520
<v Speaker 4>Did anyone speak German?

0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:15.159
<v Speaker 1>And not?

0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:15.520
<v Speaker 5>Great?

0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:20.000
<v Speaker 4>I can tell I tried really hard.

0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:21.200
<v Speaker 1>Zight gabers.

0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:25.359
<v Speaker 4>In humans, it is light, predominantly light from the sun

0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:29.440
<v Speaker 4>that acts as our number one zyp giver or time giver,

0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:32.880
<v Speaker 4>and the sun light from the sun is detected by

0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:36.200
<v Speaker 4>these specialized cells in the back of our eyeballs that

0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:41.480
<v Speaker 4>project directly to that SCN, the super chismatic nucleus, and

0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:44.679
<v Speaker 4>that part of our brain again is this pacemaker that

0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:48.439
<v Speaker 4>coordinates the cycles in all of the rest of our body.

0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:51.600
<v Speaker 4>And they do this, they coordinate the timing of like

0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:56.480
<v Speaker 4>so many different processes, right through direct and indirect pathways

0:21:56.960 --> 0:22:00.760
<v Speaker 4>to keep us on this twenty four hour cycle in

0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:04.960
<v Speaker 4>sync with the sun or the light around us. Now,

0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:08.240
<v Speaker 4>light is by no means our only zight gaper. Food

0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:11.040
<v Speaker 4>can be a powerful one, especially for other mammals other

0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:11.600
<v Speaker 4>than humans.

0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:12.720
<v Speaker 1>We also can.

0:22:12.640 --> 0:22:16.199
<v Speaker 4>See, exercise, social activity, other things can serve as zitkeepers,

0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:20.480
<v Speaker 4>but light is by far the primary one that our

0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:24.600
<v Speaker 4>particular clocks use, which means that although these rhythms are

0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:30.239
<v Speaker 4>generated internally, they do require entrainment, mostly via light in

0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:34.240
<v Speaker 4>order for so many of our biological processes to match

0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:39.159
<v Speaker 4>our environment. So when our environment changes, like when we

0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:43.080
<v Speaker 4>travel across exactly nine time zones I counted between California

0:22:43.119 --> 0:22:45.520
<v Speaker 4>and Western Australia to come to a conference ten for me,

0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:50.119
<v Speaker 4>suffice to say, our internal clock no longer matches our

0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:51.080
<v Speaker 4>external environment.

0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:54.199
<v Speaker 6>I'm feeling okay, though I will say thank you caffeine.

0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:56.959
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that's a big part of it, right, And we

0:22:57.000 --> 0:22:59.960
<v Speaker 4>all know this particular phenomenon very well. This is jetlag.

0:23:00.680 --> 0:23:03.600
<v Speaker 4>And with jet lag, because of this discrepancy between your

0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:07.560
<v Speaker 4>external environment, the timing of light exposure, and where your

0:23:07.640 --> 0:23:11.000
<v Speaker 4>internal circadian clock was set before you left, you end

0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:17.200
<v Speaker 4>up feeling pretty terrible. Right, not myself, not today right now,

0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:20.679
<v Speaker 4>we feel great, but you can end up feeling pretty terrible.

0:23:20.800 --> 0:23:23.359
<v Speaker 4>You might have symptoms like a really hard time falling

0:23:23.400 --> 0:23:26.679
<v Speaker 4>asleep when it's time to fall asleep, or maybe you

0:23:26.840 --> 0:23:29.720
<v Speaker 4>simply cannot keep your eyes open for like an afternoon

0:23:29.720 --> 0:23:33.200
<v Speaker 4>meeting when you get to where you're going. And because again,

0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:38.400
<v Speaker 4>this malagested timing is affecting every body system that we have,

0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:42.280
<v Speaker 4>not just sleep, it's not just being fatigued or being

0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:46.280
<v Speaker 4>excessively sleepy, you might also have gi upset, mood changes,

0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:51.040
<v Speaker 4>brain fog, and so much more. Now, in addition to

0:23:51.760 --> 0:23:55.439
<v Speaker 4>regular old jet lag, there's also a phenomenon called social

0:23:55.520 --> 0:23:56.040
<v Speaker 4>jet lag.

0:23:57.680 --> 0:23:58.840
<v Speaker 1>We'll separate it all.

0:23:58.800 --> 0:24:01.919
<v Speaker 4>Right, and social jetla is basically this idea that we

0:24:02.440 --> 0:24:05.240
<v Speaker 4>all as like a society at large, not us in

0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:08.240
<v Speaker 4>this room here. We have all decided that our day

0:24:08.320 --> 0:24:12.320
<v Speaker 4>starts at like eight am, right, or whatever we can

0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:14.920
<v Speaker 4>say for it, and that is where the day is

0:24:14.920 --> 0:24:16.639
<v Speaker 4>supposed to start for everyone across the board.

0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:18.680
<v Speaker 1>But a lot of us.

0:24:18.640 --> 0:24:21.480
<v Speaker 4>Maybe end up relying on like our alarm clocks to

0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:23.439
<v Speaker 4>wake us up on the weekdays to be able to

0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:25.000
<v Speaker 4>get ready for work on time.

0:24:24.920 --> 0:24:27.040
<v Speaker 3>A lot of us, I mean of us who doesn't

0:24:27.080 --> 0:24:29.000
<v Speaker 3>that would be amazing?

0:24:29.160 --> 0:24:32.760
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, And then when that happens, many of us might

0:24:32.840 --> 0:24:36.920
<v Speaker 4>perhaps on weekends, when our schedule permits it, sleep in later,

0:24:37.400 --> 0:24:40.080
<v Speaker 4>go to bed later, stay up later. So we have

0:24:40.240 --> 0:24:43.640
<v Speaker 4>this shift in what our schedule looks like between weekdays

0:24:43.680 --> 0:24:47.719
<v Speaker 4>and weekends. And it turns out that different people might

0:24:47.720 --> 0:24:49.400
<v Speaker 4>feel differently. Some of you might be like, oh, yeah,

0:24:49.440 --> 0:24:52.200
<v Speaker 4>I do that, and others are like, noth dude, six am, I'm.

0:24:52.040 --> 0:24:52.600
<v Speaker 1>Ready to go.

0:24:53.160 --> 0:24:57.280
<v Speaker 4>That's because we all have different chronotypes, and a chronotype

0:24:57.320 --> 0:25:00.600
<v Speaker 4>is like different natural tendencies to either sleep early or

0:25:00.640 --> 0:25:03.200
<v Speaker 4>sleep late, like early bird, night owl. It's a real thing.

0:25:03.280 --> 0:25:05.080
<v Speaker 4>Which are I'm an early bird.

0:25:04.880 --> 0:25:08.080
<v Speaker 1>You're an early bird? Like so what is the threshold? Like?

0:25:08.200 --> 0:25:11.520
<v Speaker 1>What a fun question? I don't know. I don't know.

0:25:11.920 --> 0:25:13.760
<v Speaker 4>I don't know if there's like a specific thing.

0:25:13.920 --> 0:25:15.520
<v Speaker 1>And can you be neither or can you be like

0:25:15.560 --> 0:25:16.120
<v Speaker 1>a light early?

0:25:16.400 --> 0:25:18.280
<v Speaker 4>You can be neither, you can be whatever you want

0:25:18.280 --> 0:25:18.520
<v Speaker 4>to be.

0:25:18.600 --> 0:25:21.439
<v Speaker 1>Okay, are you an early bird? I think about mild

0:25:21.480 --> 0:25:22.040
<v Speaker 1>early bird.

0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:22.960
<v Speaker 4>Mild early bird?

0:25:23.040 --> 0:25:25.240
<v Speaker 1>Ye like and not too early? Yeah bird?

0:25:25.440 --> 0:25:28.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't want the first word.

0:25:28.560 --> 0:25:30.639
<v Speaker 1>One would be fuels.

0:25:29.880 --> 0:25:33.639
<v Speaker 3>Are still left at the book and want them all gone.

0:25:34.280 --> 0:25:37.880
<v Speaker 4>I love that I'm an early very early No, No,

0:25:38.040 --> 0:25:38.479
<v Speaker 4>probably not.

0:25:39.280 --> 0:25:41.840
<v Speaker 1>Maybe I wish I was. It's too much.

0:25:42.840 --> 0:25:46.440
<v Speaker 4>But for people, especially who veer more night owl, then

0:25:46.560 --> 0:25:49.399
<v Speaker 4>they might have an especially hard time waking up for

0:25:49.480 --> 0:25:50.920
<v Speaker 4>that eight am start every day.

0:25:51.080 --> 0:25:51.240
<v Speaker 5>Right.

0:25:51.359 --> 0:25:54.040
<v Speaker 4>This is especially true for teenagers. And that's not just

0:25:54.080 --> 0:25:57.800
<v Speaker 4>a stereotype teenagers. Actually we see shifts in their intrinsic

0:25:57.840 --> 0:25:59.760
<v Speaker 4>circadian clocks during the teen years, and like.

0:25:59.720 --> 0:26:02.720
<v Speaker 3>Most teenagers at least in the US, start their days

0:26:02.720 --> 0:26:03.120
<v Speaker 3>at like.

0:26:03.119 --> 0:26:05.920
<v Speaker 1>Before seven, right, which is do we do it? It

0:26:06.040 --> 0:26:06.760
<v Speaker 1>was miserable.

0:26:06.840 --> 0:26:11.080
<v Speaker 4>It wasn't my idea. And so this system of forcing

0:26:11.119 --> 0:26:13.960
<v Speaker 4>these early wakings on some days and then maybe seeing

0:26:13.960 --> 0:26:16.520
<v Speaker 4>a shift in what your patterns are like on the weekends,

0:26:16.640 --> 0:26:19.600
<v Speaker 4>it can end up causing chronic sleep deprivation. And so

0:26:19.640 --> 0:26:22.359
<v Speaker 4>that's what we see in this phenomenon of social jet lag,

0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:24.080
<v Speaker 4>and that's something that a lot of us have probably

0:26:24.119 --> 0:26:27.760
<v Speaker 4>experienced to one degree or another. But we also then

0:26:27.920 --> 0:26:31.480
<v Speaker 4>have even more severe or persistent disruptions in our circadian

0:26:31.520 --> 0:26:35.679
<v Speaker 4>cycle that can result from a more chronic forced mismatch

0:26:35.760 --> 0:26:39.560
<v Speaker 4>between our environmental cues and our intrinsic clocks. And this

0:26:39.640 --> 0:26:42.920
<v Speaker 4>is what we can see in shift work. So across

0:26:42.920 --> 0:26:46.320
<v Speaker 4>the globe, it's estimated that anywhere between ten and thirty

0:26:46.359 --> 0:26:49.480
<v Speaker 4>percent of all adults in industrialized countries.

0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:49.879
<v Speaker 1>Which is a lot.

0:26:50.000 --> 0:26:54.040
<v Speaker 4>That's a lot, work in shift work. And often if

0:26:54.040 --> 0:26:56.679
<v Speaker 4>you work in shift work, then you might end up

0:26:56.720 --> 0:26:59.199
<v Speaker 4>working outside of a traditional eight to five of like

0:26:59.240 --> 0:27:01.760
<v Speaker 4>a regular old job, and that might mean you're working

0:27:01.840 --> 0:27:03.800
<v Speaker 4>night shifts. And night shifts, of course, are going to

0:27:03.840 --> 0:27:06.680
<v Speaker 4>require a complete flip of your circadian.

0:27:06.280 --> 0:27:08.600
<v Speaker 1>Cycle where you have to adapt to working.

0:27:08.480 --> 0:27:12.080
<v Speaker 4>Entirely during the dark hours and being asleep during the

0:27:12.160 --> 0:27:12.840
<v Speaker 4>light hours.

0:27:13.000 --> 0:27:16.159
<v Speaker 1>Right, But it might not just be night shift. It

0:27:16.200 --> 0:27:17.800
<v Speaker 1>can also mean rotating shifts.

0:27:18.359 --> 0:27:21.720
<v Speaker 4>It can mean late afternoon shifts that bleed into night time,

0:27:22.480 --> 0:27:25.120
<v Speaker 4>or it can mean early early morning shifts that require

0:27:25.160 --> 0:27:26.960
<v Speaker 4>you to start your day before the dawn.

0:27:27.320 --> 0:27:29.800
<v Speaker 3>My mom was an afternoon night shift work, or an

0:27:29.880 --> 0:27:32.480
<v Speaker 3>afternoon worker as a nurse. But she loved it because

0:27:32.480 --> 0:27:34.720
<v Speaker 3>she would just lay out at the pool until three pm.

0:27:35.680 --> 0:27:36.959
<v Speaker 3>She said, she was like, I loved it, and then

0:27:36.960 --> 0:27:38.920
<v Speaker 3>I would go home. And maybe she is she a

0:27:39.000 --> 0:27:42.800
<v Speaker 3>night owl, not anymore.

0:27:43.760 --> 0:27:44.720
<v Speaker 1>Because that would track.

0:27:46.760 --> 0:27:50.560
<v Speaker 4>But so all of any of these scenarios can serve

0:27:50.640 --> 0:27:53.560
<v Speaker 4>to end up disrupting our circadian clock because they're disrupting

0:27:53.640 --> 0:27:57.080
<v Speaker 4>the typical timing of our light dark exposure. In a

0:27:57.119 --> 0:27:59.439
<v Speaker 4>lot of cases, it might be exposing our eyes and

0:27:59.480 --> 0:28:03.600
<v Speaker 4>thus our brains to light essentially twenty four hours a day.

0:28:04.440 --> 0:28:08.040
<v Speaker 4>And while sometimes people can adjust the timing of when

0:28:08.080 --> 0:28:10.680
<v Speaker 4>they're asleep and when they're awake, like maybe they sleep

0:28:10.760 --> 0:28:12.800
<v Speaker 4>just fine during the day, they like sleeping in late

0:28:12.840 --> 0:28:15.640
<v Speaker 4>and then laying out in the sun or whatever, what

0:28:15.680 --> 0:28:18.800
<v Speaker 4>we do see is that the vast majority of shift

0:28:18.840 --> 0:28:22.879
<v Speaker 4>workers do not show a complete shift in all of

0:28:22.960 --> 0:28:27.800
<v Speaker 4>their circadian rhythms, meaning things like their melatonin secretion, as

0:28:27.800 --> 0:28:31.199
<v Speaker 4>an example, will still happen at night time, and in

0:28:31.200 --> 0:28:34.040
<v Speaker 4>some cases can be up to twelve hours out of

0:28:34.160 --> 0:28:37.040
<v Speaker 4>phase from when they're actually sleeping. Wow right.

0:28:37.320 --> 0:28:37.520
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

0:28:37.880 --> 0:28:39.920
<v Speaker 4>There was one paper I read that estimated that only

0:28:39.920 --> 0:28:42.760
<v Speaker 4>about twenty five percent of people who work night shift

0:28:42.840 --> 0:28:45.920
<v Speaker 4>long term actually show evidence of having a lot of

0:28:45.920 --> 0:28:49.760
<v Speaker 4>these circadian rhythms actually being shifted in line with their

0:28:50.200 --> 0:28:54.000
<v Speaker 4>real life. Wow right, it's a pretty low percentage, okay.

0:28:54.080 --> 0:28:56.200
<v Speaker 3>And this is like continuous night shift work, not like

0:28:56.280 --> 0:28:58.880
<v Speaker 3>rotating shift work or like two weeks on two week

0:28:58.880 --> 0:28:59.640
<v Speaker 3>two exactly.

0:28:59.680 --> 0:29:01.400
<v Speaker 4>This was a people who are like night shift for

0:29:01.440 --> 0:29:04.840
<v Speaker 4>the long term. Yeah yeah, And so this can unsurprisingly

0:29:05.000 --> 0:29:08.600
<v Speaker 4>result in what's called shift work disorder, which is a

0:29:08.640 --> 0:29:12.120
<v Speaker 4>disorder that can be characterized by things like insomnia, which

0:29:12.160 --> 0:29:15.120
<v Speaker 4>is difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep, or it might

0:29:15.160 --> 0:29:18.320
<v Speaker 4>be excessive sleepiness like falling asleep when you shouldn't be

0:29:18.400 --> 0:29:21.520
<v Speaker 4>at work or micronapping. But it can also lead to

0:29:21.600 --> 0:29:25.160
<v Speaker 4>increased irritability, it can lead to mood changes like depression

0:29:25.240 --> 0:29:28.640
<v Speaker 4>or anxiety, and it overall can lead to this mental

0:29:28.760 --> 0:29:32.000
<v Speaker 4>fog that can lead to increases in mistakes because of

0:29:32.040 --> 0:29:35.280
<v Speaker 4>all of this fatigue and sleepiness. So some studies suggest

0:29:35.520 --> 0:29:39.400
<v Speaker 4>that working during the night alone increases the risk of

0:29:39.440 --> 0:29:42.320
<v Speaker 4>workplace accidents by forty to one hundred percent.

0:29:42.560 --> 0:29:43.840
<v Speaker 1>WHOA, which is huge.

0:29:43.880 --> 0:29:46.720
<v Speaker 4>It's a huge range also, but it's also huge, like

0:29:47.080 --> 0:29:52.160
<v Speaker 4>very significant. And shift work disorder alone is not that uncommon.

0:29:52.440 --> 0:29:55.280
<v Speaker 4>Some papers estimate up to twenty seven percent of shift

0:29:55.360 --> 0:29:59.480
<v Speaker 4>workers meet the formal definition of shift work shift work disorder.

0:30:00.200 --> 0:30:01.440
<v Speaker 1>But on a practical.

0:30:01.120 --> 0:30:03.800
<v Speaker 4>Level, everyone who has work shift work has probably experienced,

0:30:03.800 --> 0:30:06.360
<v Speaker 4>to one degree or another, this negative effects of this

0:30:06.400 --> 0:30:10.120
<v Speaker 4>circadian disruption. Yeah, but again, it's not just fatigue and

0:30:10.160 --> 0:30:14.520
<v Speaker 4>sleepiness at work or outside of work, because especially what

0:30:14.600 --> 0:30:18.760
<v Speaker 4>we see with time spent working night shifts having really

0:30:18.800 --> 0:30:23.880
<v Speaker 4>significant impacts on long term health. Shift workers are at

0:30:23.880 --> 0:30:27.239
<v Speaker 4>about a twenty to thirty five percent increased risk of

0:30:27.400 --> 0:30:33.120
<v Speaker 4>breast cancer, prostate cancer, colorectal cancers, but also type two diabetes,

0:30:33.240 --> 0:30:36.960
<v Speaker 4>coronary artery disease, and depression and many other chronic health

0:30:36.960 --> 0:30:37.760
<v Speaker 4>conditions as well.

0:30:38.360 --> 0:30:42.040
<v Speaker 3>Eric, But like, what is the mechanism for that? Like why, Yeah,

0:30:42.120 --> 0:30:43.080
<v Speaker 3>what do we know about that?

0:30:43.160 --> 0:30:48.840
<v Speaker 4>We don't know everything, which is a classic line, and

0:30:48.880 --> 0:30:51.080
<v Speaker 4>I will say that there has in the literature been

0:30:51.120 --> 0:30:55.000
<v Speaker 4>some pushback as to like how causal is this relationship

0:30:55.360 --> 0:30:57.920
<v Speaker 4>because a lot of these disorders also have a lot

0:30:57.960 --> 0:31:01.080
<v Speaker 4>of other lifestyle factors that influence them as well, and

0:31:01.120 --> 0:31:03.960
<v Speaker 4>so sometimes you might see difference in lifestyle between people

0:31:04.000 --> 0:31:07.000
<v Speaker 4>who work shift work or night shift work specifically compared

0:31:07.040 --> 0:31:11.680
<v Speaker 4>to day shift workers and things like that. But the evidence,

0:31:11.800 --> 0:31:16.800
<v Speaker 4>especially for cancers in animal studies, is so significant that

0:31:17.680 --> 0:31:21.920
<v Speaker 4>circadian rhythm destruction in animal studies leads to cancer formation,

0:31:22.040 --> 0:31:25.320
<v Speaker 4>tumor growth. And it is such overwhelming evidence that the

0:31:25.560 --> 0:31:29.760
<v Speaker 4>International Agency for Research on Cancer named night shift work

0:31:29.800 --> 0:31:32.080
<v Speaker 4>a probable carcinogen all the way back in.

0:31:32.080 --> 0:31:34.720
<v Speaker 1>Two thousand and seven. Wow, this is like a new information.

0:31:35.320 --> 0:31:37.160
<v Speaker 4>But then if we dig even deeper on like what

0:31:37.280 --> 0:31:41.520
<v Speaker 4>is the mechanisms, we know that our circadian rhythms are

0:31:41.600 --> 0:31:46.600
<v Speaker 4>affecting so much of our overall body functions, and what

0:31:46.640 --> 0:31:50.680
<v Speaker 4>we see is that disynchrony of our sleep wake cycles

0:31:51.160 --> 0:31:54.960
<v Speaker 4>and our endogenous circadian rhythms ends up leading to things

0:31:55.000 --> 0:32:00.000
<v Speaker 4>like increases in blood pressure, reduced insulin sensitivity, elevated lipid concentration,

0:32:00.560 --> 0:32:02.360
<v Speaker 4>and so all of these might put us at risk

0:32:02.400 --> 0:32:04.800
<v Speaker 4>for things like diabetes, hypertension.

0:32:04.200 --> 0:32:05.360
<v Speaker 1>Cardiovascular disease.

0:32:05.800 --> 0:32:09.240
<v Speaker 4>There's also some evidence between like timing of and amount

0:32:09.320 --> 0:32:14.240
<v Speaker 4>of melatonin secretion and the effects on uncogenesis or cancer formation.

0:32:14.480 --> 0:32:15.880
<v Speaker 1>That's interesting exactly.

0:32:16.200 --> 0:32:19.080
<v Speaker 4>So at like a basic level, what it's thought to

0:32:19.120 --> 0:32:21.600
<v Speaker 4>be is that all of these increases in risk are

0:32:21.640 --> 0:32:23.840
<v Speaker 4>a result of the fact that so many of us

0:32:23.960 --> 0:32:28.760
<v Speaker 4>working night shifts. Our endogenous circadian rhythms do not adapt

0:32:29.200 --> 0:32:31.400
<v Speaker 4>to this forced pattern of being a weak.

0:32:31.240 --> 0:32:32.960
<v Speaker 1>At night and being asleep during the day.

0:32:33.280 --> 0:32:36.520
<v Speaker 4>So it's a mismatch between our internal cycles and the environment.

0:32:37.360 --> 0:32:39.600
<v Speaker 1>So that's the best answer I've got. I mean, I

0:32:39.600 --> 0:32:41.040
<v Speaker 1>think that's a pretty good awer.

0:32:41.560 --> 0:32:44.520
<v Speaker 4>Parts it is, yeah, and probably a lot of specific

0:32:44.560 --> 0:32:47.480
<v Speaker 4>mechanisms that go into each of the different disorders and

0:32:47.520 --> 0:32:50.800
<v Speaker 4>things like that, But on the whole, I think I've

0:32:50.840 --> 0:32:54.800
<v Speaker 4>convinced you all that it's abundantly clear that our circadian

0:32:54.840 --> 0:32:57.880
<v Speaker 4>rhythms are very, very integral, not just in our sleeping

0:32:57.920 --> 0:33:01.440
<v Speaker 4>and our weakness and our alertness or fatigue, but also

0:33:01.520 --> 0:33:04.880
<v Speaker 4>in so much of our health. So circadian rhythms are

0:33:04.920 --> 0:33:07.520
<v Speaker 4>an important thing to consider in the context of a

0:33:07.520 --> 0:33:09.960
<v Speaker 4>lot of our stages of life, a lot of our professions.

0:33:10.680 --> 0:33:12.760
<v Speaker 1>So I have a question for you erin uh huh,

0:33:13.000 --> 0:33:13.920
<v Speaker 1>ask go ahead.

0:33:14.040 --> 0:33:19.080
<v Speaker 4>If this thing, these things, these circadian rhythms that seem

0:33:19.160 --> 0:33:22.200
<v Speaker 4>today to be it's so easy for us to disrupt them,

0:33:22.360 --> 0:33:24.200
<v Speaker 4>to get get messed up. You just hop on a plane,

0:33:24.440 --> 0:33:25.040
<v Speaker 4>just change.

0:33:24.880 --> 0:33:27.280
<v Speaker 1>Your clocks back, just go into a grocery store at night.

0:33:27.480 --> 0:33:27.640
<v Speaker 5>Right.

0:33:28.040 --> 0:33:30.239
<v Speaker 4>If it's so easy for them to get disrupted, and

0:33:30.280 --> 0:33:33.480
<v Speaker 4>when they get disrupted, they can cause so much trouble,

0:33:34.240 --> 0:33:37.520
<v Speaker 4>why do we have them? What do they do for

0:33:37.680 --> 0:33:40.360
<v Speaker 4>us as humans or creatures like you?

0:33:40.640 --> 0:33:40.960
<v Speaker 1>And when?

0:33:41.400 --> 0:33:43.360
<v Speaker 4>How did we know all of this? Tell me everything?

0:33:43.440 --> 0:33:45.320
<v Speaker 3>Okay, I'll tell you as much as I can tell you,

0:33:45.960 --> 0:34:07.120
<v Speaker 3>maybe not everything. Wherever you are, whether you're here in

0:34:07.200 --> 0:34:11.000
<v Speaker 3>this room in Perth, Australia at this conference, or you're

0:34:11.120 --> 0:34:13.719
<v Speaker 3>tuning in from across the world. I want you to

0:34:13.920 --> 0:34:17.160
<v Speaker 3>imagine yourself as a dot on the globe, as a

0:34:17.160 --> 0:34:18.920
<v Speaker 3>pin on the map I've.

0:34:18.760 --> 0:34:19.520
<v Speaker 1>Marked Perth here.

0:34:21.960 --> 0:34:26.280
<v Speaker 3>Now, let's rewind time, let's say two hundred million years

0:34:26.400 --> 0:34:29.759
<v Speaker 3>or so, keeping that pin in its original coordinates, and

0:34:29.800 --> 0:34:32.440
<v Speaker 3>I want you to picture a time lapse of the

0:34:32.560 --> 0:34:39.560
<v Speaker 3>continents shifting, colliding, separating, oceans, expanding and shrinking, mountains forming

0:34:39.719 --> 0:34:40.480
<v Speaker 3>and crumbling.

0:34:41.160 --> 0:34:43.879
<v Speaker 1>What is your pin witnessing in all of this?

0:34:44.719 --> 0:34:47.480
<v Speaker 3>Has it mostly been a drift in a vast ocean,

0:34:48.200 --> 0:34:50.840
<v Speaker 3>or has it been at the center of continental action,

0:34:51.080 --> 0:34:55.960
<v Speaker 3>witness to collisions and separations, or maybe your pin has

0:34:56.239 --> 0:34:59.759
<v Speaker 3>seen it all. As our time lapse comes to an

0:34:59.840 --> 0:35:04.799
<v Speaker 3>end eventually and the continents have settled into the familiar positions,

0:35:05.280 --> 0:35:08.799
<v Speaker 3>let's take a minute to marvel at the incredible dynamic

0:35:08.920 --> 0:35:11.920
<v Speaker 3>changes that our planet has seen over those two hundred

0:35:11.960 --> 0:35:14.720
<v Speaker 3>million years, which is just a fraction of the Earth's

0:35:14.719 --> 0:35:19.080
<v Speaker 3>four and a half billion year existence. Grasslands turned to deserts,

0:35:19.400 --> 0:35:24.719
<v Speaker 3>rainforests turned to freshwater lakes, and temperature rainfall and atmospheric

0:35:24.719 --> 0:35:30.359
<v Speaker 3>composition shifting tremendously over these millennia. Life on Earth has

0:35:30.400 --> 0:35:33.680
<v Speaker 3>had to deal with a lot of change, even just

0:35:33.800 --> 0:35:38.240
<v Speaker 3>over those two hundred million years. But throughout those transformations,

0:35:38.640 --> 0:35:43.239
<v Speaker 3>there has remained one near constant. The sun always rises

0:35:43.480 --> 0:35:44.960
<v Speaker 3>and the sun always sets.

0:35:45.040 --> 0:35:47.080
<v Speaker 1>I love that so profound.

0:35:48.400 --> 0:35:51.840
<v Speaker 3>And while the time between sunrise and sunset varies across

0:35:51.960 --> 0:35:56.120
<v Speaker 3>latitudes and seasons, the existence of a day has always

0:35:56.200 --> 0:35:59.040
<v Speaker 3>been a feature of life on Earth. So let's go

0:35:59.120 --> 0:36:01.439
<v Speaker 3>back to your pain the map the two hundred million

0:36:01.520 --> 0:36:04.839
<v Speaker 3>years ago, the day you'd experience outside of like having

0:36:04.880 --> 0:36:09.160
<v Speaker 3>to fight and hide from dinosaurs, is nearly identical to

0:36:09.200 --> 0:36:12.279
<v Speaker 3>the one that you'll experience today, just about an hour

0:36:12.400 --> 0:36:15.719
<v Speaker 3>shorter thanks to the Earth's s gradual slow down. In

0:36:15.760 --> 0:36:19.719
<v Speaker 3>a world filled with so much uncertainty, it can be

0:36:19.800 --> 0:36:23.680
<v Speaker 3>reassuring to have that one constant. And this sentiment is

0:36:23.719 --> 0:36:27.319
<v Speaker 3>shared across much of life on Earth. Most organisms have

0:36:27.520 --> 0:36:34.040
<v Speaker 3>evolved to anticipate these daily changes. Plants, animals, fungi, algae,

0:36:34.200 --> 0:36:39.040
<v Speaker 3>even cyanobacteria all possess internal clocks that control the timing

0:36:39.160 --> 0:36:42.719
<v Speaker 3>of biological, physiological, and behavioral responses.

0:36:42.800 --> 0:36:47.839
<v Speaker 4>We love that we see it, even in bacteria, likely fascinating.

0:36:47.360 --> 0:36:49.480
<v Speaker 1>It's so cool. I also love that someone looked for that.

0:36:49.600 --> 0:36:51.680
<v Speaker 4>Right They're like, we've got to find it here.

0:36:52.360 --> 0:36:55.400
<v Speaker 3>It's not just us, It's not just us, it's everyone.

0:36:56.120 --> 0:36:59.200
<v Speaker 3>Or is it? Is it that I don't know.

0:37:02.880 --> 0:37:03.720
<v Speaker 1>Rhetorical question.

0:37:03.880 --> 0:37:09.000
<v Speaker 3>But these behavioral responses, or these biological responses, things like sleep,

0:37:09.120 --> 0:37:11.799
<v Speaker 3>like the release of certain hormones, or like feeding that

0:37:11.840 --> 0:37:14.680
<v Speaker 3>occurs at certain times of day or night, and we

0:37:14.760 --> 0:37:18.200
<v Speaker 3>call these rhythms that are these responses that repeat over

0:37:18.239 --> 0:37:21.400
<v Speaker 3>a roughly twenty four hour period, of course, are circadian rhythms.

0:37:22.160 --> 0:37:26.439
<v Speaker 3>The ubiquity of these rhythms across all or almost all

0:37:26.480 --> 0:37:28.480
<v Speaker 3>of life. I guess I don't know what's going on

0:37:28.560 --> 0:37:30.600
<v Speaker 3>in like the worms that live in the deep sea events.

0:37:31.000 --> 0:37:33.160
<v Speaker 1>Whether they have they always mess things up.

0:37:33.360 --> 0:37:35.440
<v Speaker 6>I don't know, they could have. They probably still be

0:37:36.200 --> 0:37:39.080
<v Speaker 6>something we'll find out. Yeah, well we'll look into it.

0:37:39.440 --> 0:37:42.600
<v Speaker 6>But it just speaks to how important these rhythms are.

0:37:44.000 --> 0:37:45.759
<v Speaker 6>But why why would it.

0:37:45.719 --> 0:37:49.440
<v Speaker 3>Be so crucial to partition our activity or our physiology

0:37:49.480 --> 0:37:50.680
<v Speaker 3>across a twenty four.

0:37:50.480 --> 0:37:51.799
<v Speaker 4>Hour period, That's my question?

0:37:51.800 --> 0:37:52.479
<v Speaker 1>Why does it matter?

0:37:53.000 --> 0:37:58.040
<v Speaker 3>In a word, optimization, Our external environment changes in many

0:37:58.080 --> 0:38:04.200
<v Speaker 3>ways every day, availability, predator activity, temperature, When other members

0:38:04.239 --> 0:38:07.600
<v Speaker 3>of your species are also out and about, you want

0:38:07.640 --> 0:38:10.400
<v Speaker 3>to spend your energy where it counts. If you're a

0:38:10.400 --> 0:38:14.680
<v Speaker 3>bird who relies on color vision for foraging for berries,

0:38:15.120 --> 0:38:17.399
<v Speaker 3>you probably want to do that during the day, when

0:38:17.600 --> 0:38:21.080
<v Speaker 3>the light actually helps you pick out those colorful berries.

0:38:21.239 --> 0:38:23.400
<v Speaker 4>See them, you can actually see helps.

0:38:24.520 --> 0:38:27.520
<v Speaker 3>But if you're a small prey mammal species like this

0:38:27.719 --> 0:38:31.120
<v Speaker 3>flying squirrel, maybe running around at night is your best

0:38:31.160 --> 0:38:33.360
<v Speaker 3>bet to escape predators or flying around.

0:38:33.960 --> 0:38:36.240
<v Speaker 1>You also don't want to be active all the time.

0:38:36.440 --> 0:38:37.440
<v Speaker 1>It will be exhausting.

0:38:37.760 --> 0:38:41.920
<v Speaker 3>Our sleep is incredibly important for housekeeping tasks that our

0:38:41.920 --> 0:38:45.440
<v Speaker 3>body can't do while we're running around, and circadian rhythms

0:38:45.480 --> 0:38:48.640
<v Speaker 3>help us optimize how we spend our energy and when

0:38:48.760 --> 0:38:51.440
<v Speaker 3>it's safe to get the rest that we need to recuperate.

0:38:52.080 --> 0:38:53.279
<v Speaker 1>Anyone who has pulled an.

0:38:53.239 --> 0:38:55.560
<v Speaker 3>All nighter or who has had to run on a

0:38:55.600 --> 0:38:59.120
<v Speaker 3>few stolen hours of sleep after welcoming a newborn knows

0:38:59.200 --> 0:39:01.800
<v Speaker 3>the pain of being out of sync with the world.

0:39:02.440 --> 0:39:04.480
<v Speaker 1>But for the most part, we can easily.

0:39:04.080 --> 0:39:07.520
<v Speaker 3>Recover from these one time or short term disruptions. But

0:39:07.600 --> 0:39:10.920
<v Speaker 3>what happens when there is a constant mismatch between your

0:39:10.960 --> 0:39:12.920
<v Speaker 3>internal clock and the external environment.

0:39:13.400 --> 0:39:14.680
<v Speaker 1>Well, we know from what you.

0:39:14.719 --> 0:39:17.080
<v Speaker 3>Just told us, Aaron, that it's really not great, not

0:39:17.360 --> 0:39:19.480
<v Speaker 3>good for humans at the least, not good for most,

0:39:19.640 --> 0:39:22.680
<v Speaker 3>if not all, of the animals we've studied, and decades

0:39:22.719 --> 0:39:26.200
<v Speaker 3>of research have shown that it's not great for really anything.

0:39:26.520 --> 0:39:28.720
<v Speaker 3>So let's take a minute to get into the story

0:39:28.760 --> 0:39:31.759
<v Speaker 3>of how we came to understand these rhythms of our

0:39:31.800 --> 0:39:36.600
<v Speaker 3>lives and the consequences of their disruption. Humans have recognized

0:39:36.600 --> 0:39:41.279
<v Speaker 3>circadian rhythms in ourselves and other creatures for millennia. Aristotle

0:39:41.360 --> 0:39:45.800
<v Speaker 3>in the fourth century BCE noted that bees slept bees,

0:39:46.120 --> 0:39:49.280
<v Speaker 3>bees slept fourth century BCE.

0:39:50.200 --> 0:39:52.440
<v Speaker 4>I love that they're just cutting open hives, being like, oh,

0:39:52.480 --> 0:39:53.320
<v Speaker 4>that one's asleep.

0:39:53.480 --> 0:39:56.719
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I'm sure. Sorry, you're disturbing up like this.

0:39:57.120 --> 0:39:58.240
<v Speaker 1>Very's so cute.

0:40:00.040 --> 0:40:03.360
<v Speaker 3>And around the same time and Rosthenes observed the leaves

0:40:03.360 --> 0:40:06.480
<v Speaker 3>of the tamarin tree curling and uncurling over a day.

0:40:07.200 --> 0:40:10.760
<v Speaker 3>The famous ancient Greek and Roman physicians Hippocrates and Galen

0:40:10.920 --> 0:40:14.080
<v Speaker 3>described fevers that peaked at certain times of day.

0:40:14.400 --> 0:40:15.400
<v Speaker 1>What do we think that might be?

0:40:15.600 --> 0:40:19.600
<v Speaker 4>I love this, it's malaria, it's larious, probably, yeah.

0:40:19.640 --> 0:40:22.520
<v Speaker 3>And one of the leading hypotheses for why these cyclic

0:40:22.560 --> 0:40:26.399
<v Speaker 3>fevers exist is that the parasites match the circadian rhythm

0:40:26.520 --> 0:40:30.000
<v Speaker 3>of their host or their mosquito vector for more likely transmission.

0:40:30.320 --> 0:40:32.640
<v Speaker 3>Like is, do they go into the bloodstream at certain

0:40:32.680 --> 0:40:34.800
<v Speaker 3>times a day so that that's when the mosquitoes are biting.

0:40:34.880 --> 0:40:37.960
<v Speaker 4>It's really that's not malaria.

0:40:38.000 --> 0:40:38.600
<v Speaker 1>It's horrible.

0:40:38.760 --> 0:40:44.200
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, but they and the parasites are like going to

0:40:44.200 --> 0:40:46.520
<v Speaker 4>be active at certain times to maximize transmission.

0:40:46.560 --> 0:40:50.160
<v Speaker 1>That's I know, mind blowing evolution. Man, it's pretty cool.

0:40:51.320 --> 0:40:56.680
<v Speaker 3>But for centuries, all of these observations remained just that observations.

0:40:57.400 --> 0:41:00.760
<v Speaker 3>No one attempted to answer the question of why until

0:41:00.800 --> 0:41:04.399
<v Speaker 3>them seventeen twenties, when a French scientist by the name

0:41:04.440 --> 0:41:07.319
<v Speaker 3>of de Meran decided to take a closer look at

0:41:07.360 --> 0:41:11.560
<v Speaker 3>a plant, specifically Mimosa pudica, which also goes by the

0:41:11.719 --> 0:41:14.560
<v Speaker 3>adorable common name of sensitive plants or.

0:41:14.600 --> 0:41:16.800
<v Speaker 1>Shy plant or shype so I used to call it.

0:41:17.480 --> 0:41:20.160
<v Speaker 3>And anyone who is interacted with this plant can see

0:41:20.200 --> 0:41:23.400
<v Speaker 3>where it got its nickname. When you touch its delicate leaves,

0:41:23.480 --> 0:41:26.200
<v Speaker 3>they fold in on themselves like ah, don't touch me,

0:41:27.000 --> 0:41:28.759
<v Speaker 3>and then a few minutes later they'll open back up,

0:41:28.880 --> 0:41:31.319
<v Speaker 3>though they calm back down. But it turns out that

0:41:31.360 --> 0:41:35.040
<v Speaker 3>the plants also do this folding and unfolding routine throughout

0:41:35.080 --> 0:41:36.520
<v Speaker 3>the day, folding up at night.

0:41:37.440 --> 0:41:37.560
<v Speaker 2>Day.

0:41:37.640 --> 0:41:41.919
<v Speaker 3>Moron, observing this, thought to himself, what if the two

0:41:41.960 --> 0:41:45.160
<v Speaker 3>words at the heart of every scientist, what if they

0:41:45.160 --> 0:41:46.239
<v Speaker 3>aren't exposed to light?

0:41:46.760 --> 0:41:47.560
<v Speaker 1>Then what happens?

0:41:48.080 --> 0:41:50.280
<v Speaker 3>And so he plopped the plant into a dark cupboard

0:41:50.600 --> 0:41:53.840
<v Speaker 3>and saw that it still opened and closed its leaves

0:41:53.920 --> 0:41:55.360
<v Speaker 3>over that twenty four hour period.

0:41:55.360 --> 0:41:57.560
<v Speaker 1>Wow, even in complete darkness.

0:41:57.719 --> 0:42:01.040
<v Speaker 3>And so if light wasn't driving this pattern, what was

0:42:02.400 --> 0:42:05.600
<v Speaker 3>In eighteen thirty two, about one hundred years after day

0:42:05.640 --> 0:42:10.640
<v Speaker 3>Morn's experiments, Swiss botanist Augusta. Kendall took this question further,

0:42:10.960 --> 0:42:15.239
<v Speaker 3>placing MOMSA plants under continuous light. Initially, the plants still

0:42:15.280 --> 0:42:18.560
<v Speaker 3>show their daily leaf movements, but as the days went on,

0:42:19.160 --> 0:42:22.480
<v Speaker 3>the candle watched as this pattern grew out of sync

0:42:22.640 --> 0:42:26.800
<v Speaker 3>with day and night. Something internal, like an internal clock,

0:42:26.920 --> 0:42:31.319
<v Speaker 3>perhaps it seemed to be driving these movements, governed by

0:42:31.360 --> 0:42:34.200
<v Speaker 3>a cycle slightly shorter than a day, around twenty two

0:42:34.239 --> 0:42:38.359
<v Speaker 3>hours compared to twenty four to Kandle's experiment was the

0:42:38.360 --> 0:42:41.720
<v Speaker 3>first to demonstrate the concept of a free running rhythm,

0:42:42.040 --> 0:42:45.080
<v Speaker 3>where an organism's internal clock is slightly longer or shorter

0:42:45.239 --> 0:42:47.719
<v Speaker 3>than a full twenty four hour day, and in the

0:42:47.760 --> 0:42:51.600
<v Speaker 3>absence of external cues, their rhythms will eventually decouple from

0:42:51.600 --> 0:42:54.040
<v Speaker 3>that twenty four hour cycle and instead be guided by

0:42:54.120 --> 0:42:57.960
<v Speaker 3>their internal ones humans, for instance, twenty.

0:42:57.640 --> 0:43:00.680
<v Speaker 1>Four and twenty four hours then nine to eleven minutes.

0:43:02.120 --> 0:43:05.480
<v Speaker 3>But, as it often goes Dick, Kendal's conclusion that organisms

0:43:05.560 --> 0:43:08.840
<v Speaker 3>are guided by an internal clock as opposed to responding

0:43:08.920 --> 0:43:13.040
<v Speaker 3>solely due to external stimuli was not immediately embraced.

0:43:13.200 --> 0:43:14.439
<v Speaker 1>Shock imagine that.

0:43:14.400 --> 0:43:17.239
<v Speaker 4>We learned something new and not everyone believes.

0:43:17.920 --> 0:43:20.600
<v Speaker 3>The debate on whether these daily patterns were directed by

0:43:20.760 --> 0:43:25.040
<v Speaker 3>internal or external forces continued basically up to the middle

0:43:25.080 --> 0:43:28.120
<v Speaker 3>of the twentieth century, coinciding with the peak of the

0:43:28.200 --> 0:43:32.440
<v Speaker 3>nature versus nurture debate, But while nature versus nurture seemed

0:43:32.480 --> 0:43:39.440
<v Speaker 3>to be only increasing in contentiousness, research on rats, plants, birds, bees,

0:43:39.600 --> 0:43:44.319
<v Speaker 3>even humans demonstrated clear evidence for an internal clock cut

0:43:44.360 --> 0:43:47.680
<v Speaker 3>off from external cues. Mice and rats kept running on

0:43:47.719 --> 0:43:50.000
<v Speaker 3>their wheel or sleeping right on schedule.

0:43:50.560 --> 0:43:52.480
<v Speaker 1>Chickens who had been incubated at.

0:43:52.400 --> 0:43:57.280
<v Speaker 3>Constant conditions still hatched with an innate biological rhythm. Bees

0:43:57.719 --> 0:44:01.279
<v Speaker 3>demonstrated a keen sense of time and an ability to

0:44:01.320 --> 0:44:02.520
<v Speaker 3>communicate that time.

0:44:02.640 --> 0:44:04.320
<v Speaker 1>These are just an amazing example.

0:44:05.200 --> 0:44:08.520
<v Speaker 4>Rhythms and flower time in really good I have to.

0:44:08.480 --> 0:44:11.400
<v Speaker 3>Like schedule, like have a little schedule calendar for oh,

0:44:11.640 --> 0:44:14.080
<v Speaker 3>ta this flower then, because that's when it's producing nectar.

0:44:14.160 --> 0:44:14.239
<v Speaker 5>Right.

0:44:14.400 --> 0:44:15.840
<v Speaker 4>They have it all in a little notebook.

0:44:15.960 --> 0:44:18.120
<v Speaker 1>I just imagine getting there a little early and they're like, oh.

0:44:18.000 --> 0:44:21.120
<v Speaker 3>My gosh, you'll wait, wait, this is where's the nectar?

0:44:21.239 --> 0:44:27.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, got places to be. Next one opens in five.

0:44:29.239 --> 0:44:31.520
<v Speaker 3>And humans turned out to be no exception to this,

0:44:31.760 --> 0:44:33.839
<v Speaker 3>as a series of cave, Arctic and.

0:44:33.800 --> 0:44:35.960
<v Speaker 1>Underground bunker experiments demonstrated.

0:44:36.520 --> 0:44:39.359
<v Speaker 3>The first of these took place in nineteen thirty eight

0:44:39.800 --> 0:44:44.360
<v Speaker 3>when physiologist Nathaniel Kleitman called his graduate student Bruce Richardson

0:44:44.400 --> 0:44:45.279
<v Speaker 3>into his office one.

0:44:45.200 --> 0:44:47.480
<v Speaker 1>Day this is how I imagining how it went, and.

0:44:47.480 --> 0:44:50.560
<v Speaker 3>Said, hey, Bruce, can I interest you in an all

0:44:50.640 --> 0:44:54.560
<v Speaker 3>expenses paid, thirty two day trip to Mammoth Cave, Kentucky

0:44:54.800 --> 0:44:56.480
<v Speaker 3>where we'll hang out in a cavern and try to

0:44:56.520 --> 0:44:58.840
<v Speaker 3>adjust our bodies to a twenty eight hour day. The

0:44:58.920 --> 0:45:01.840
<v Speaker 3>nearby hotel will take care of our gourmet meals. You

0:45:01.840 --> 0:45:03.239
<v Speaker 3>can bring whatever books you'd like.

0:45:03.320 --> 0:45:05.520
<v Speaker 1>I've got a deck of cards to play bridge. It'll

0:45:05.560 --> 0:45:05.960
<v Speaker 1>be great.

0:45:06.840 --> 0:45:08.480
<v Speaker 4>One deck of cards, thirty two days.

0:45:08.719 --> 0:45:11.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah cool, Well that's all you need really really, but bridge,

0:45:11.840 --> 0:45:12.480
<v Speaker 1>just bridge.

0:45:12.520 --> 0:45:14.600
<v Speaker 4>I don't even know how to play bridge me either.

0:45:14.880 --> 0:45:16.000
<v Speaker 1>Two conditions though.

0:45:16.239 --> 0:45:19.640
<v Speaker 3>You've got to record your sleep movements and your temperature

0:45:19.760 --> 0:45:20.840
<v Speaker 3>at regular intervals.

0:45:21.320 --> 0:45:24.040
<v Speaker 1>Richardson said, yes, I mean, who wouldn't like I would

0:45:24.080 --> 0:45:25.040
<v Speaker 1>do this? That sounds fun.

0:45:26.080 --> 0:45:28.600
<v Speaker 4>I tried his advisor and he's like, well, I can't

0:45:28.640 --> 0:45:29.040
<v Speaker 4>say no.

0:45:29.360 --> 0:45:29.839
<v Speaker 1>That's true.

0:45:29.920 --> 0:45:30.360
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

0:45:30.480 --> 0:45:32.279
<v Speaker 1>I tried to do it with ticks. Do you remember this.

0:45:32.680 --> 0:45:34.800
<v Speaker 3>I was sampling in Panama and I tried to measure

0:45:34.960 --> 0:45:38.200
<v Speaker 3>see if there was like a diurnal pattern of tick abundance.

0:45:38.680 --> 0:45:42.000
<v Speaker 3>And then the rainy seasons a three am. Yeah, and

0:45:42.080 --> 0:45:43.200
<v Speaker 3>I got rained out and I had.

0:45:43.120 --> 0:45:44.600
<v Speaker 4>To leave and this is over.

0:45:44.800 --> 0:45:45.000
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

0:45:45.160 --> 0:45:48.279
<v Speaker 1>It was exhausting new experiment. Yeah, I never I never

0:45:48.320 --> 0:45:52.080
<v Speaker 1>did it again though. Oh well, opportunities for the future.

0:45:52.920 --> 0:45:54.680
<v Speaker 1>But while the scientific.

0:45:54.200 --> 0:45:57.880
<v Speaker 3>Conclusions drawn from this end of two experiment just Kleiittman and.

0:45:57.960 --> 0:46:00.160
<v Speaker 1>Richardson, they were a little vague, right.

0:46:00.200 --> 0:46:03.920
<v Speaker 3>Richardson apparently readjusted to twenty eight hours, but Kleitmann did not.

0:46:04.440 --> 0:46:08.360
<v Speaker 3>It made quite an impact on the budding field of chronobiology,

0:46:08.840 --> 0:46:11.759
<v Speaker 3>drawing the attention of journalists who sketched a story of

0:46:11.880 --> 0:46:15.439
<v Speaker 3>scientific adventure, as well as researchers who wanted to try

0:46:15.480 --> 0:46:19.360
<v Speaker 3>it for themselves, like Michel Sifrey, who spent two months

0:46:19.360 --> 0:46:22.160
<v Speaker 3>in a cave in the Italian Alps in nineteen sixty two,

0:46:22.640 --> 0:46:26.520
<v Speaker 3>waking and sleeping when he felt like it. Ultimately, when

0:46:26.560 --> 0:46:29.279
<v Speaker 3>he emerged, he was shocked to find that he had

0:46:29.400 --> 0:46:32.800
<v Speaker 3>lost two weeks. He thought I'll just it'll be exactly

0:46:32.840 --> 0:46:33.359
<v Speaker 3>where I think.

0:46:33.400 --> 0:46:35.600
<v Speaker 1>But no, no, he lost two weeks because he's too long.

0:46:36.840 --> 0:46:39.800
<v Speaker 3>And this work helped to incite interest into the study

0:46:39.840 --> 0:46:43.040
<v Speaker 3>of circadian rhythms, and by the early nineteen sixties the

0:46:43.120 --> 0:46:46.240
<v Speaker 3>field of chronobiology was born, with one of its leaders,

0:46:46.320 --> 0:46:50.200
<v Speaker 3>Franz Hallberg, introducing the term circadian rhythm in nineteen fifty nine.

0:46:51.040 --> 0:46:54.640
<v Speaker 1>Seems so recent, I know it is. I mean internal clock.

0:46:54.680 --> 0:46:56.600
<v Speaker 1>I think was at least from the eighteen hundred. This

0:46:56.719 --> 0:46:59.239
<v Speaker 1>this is the term rhythm more recent, Okay.

0:47:00.080 --> 0:47:03.680
<v Speaker 3>Since then, researcher has examined the process of entreatment which

0:47:03.680 --> 0:47:08.479
<v Speaker 3>you described, and I was thinking about zeit Gabers Again,

0:47:08.520 --> 0:47:11.600
<v Speaker 3>apologies for the pronunciation as kind of like right now,

0:47:11.640 --> 0:47:13.719
<v Speaker 3>how you're giving a talk and you think, oh, I'm

0:47:13.760 --> 0:47:15.799
<v Speaker 3>right on time, I'm doing great, and then someone at

0:47:15.800 --> 0:47:17.440
<v Speaker 3>the back holds up like a five minute warning and

0:47:17.440 --> 0:47:20.320
<v Speaker 3>you're like, whoops, I'm only halfway through my presentation.

0:47:20.640 --> 0:47:22.960
<v Speaker 1>I feel like that sign is a psyche Gaberah. It's

0:47:22.960 --> 0:47:24.200
<v Speaker 1>a good analogy. I like it.

0:47:24.960 --> 0:47:29.000
<v Speaker 3>Researchers have examined the mechanistic basis of how these external

0:47:29.040 --> 0:47:32.840
<v Speaker 3>signals are received by the hypothalamist eyes, pineal gland, or

0:47:32.840 --> 0:47:36.240
<v Speaker 3>by some other means. They've attempted to decipher the genetic

0:47:36.280 --> 0:47:40.520
<v Speaker 3>basis of biological clocks, identifying clock genes and observing how

0:47:40.560 --> 0:47:45.360
<v Speaker 3>these genes synchronize across our body to orchestrate broad physiological

0:47:45.360 --> 0:47:47.520
<v Speaker 3>and behavioral changes during a.

0:47:47.520 --> 0:47:48.560
<v Speaker 1>Twenty four hour period.

0:47:48.880 --> 0:47:52.200
<v Speaker 3>They've done a lot, Yeah, a lot, and this research

0:47:52.280 --> 0:47:56.960
<v Speaker 3>has been integral to understanding what drives the rhythms of

0:47:57.000 --> 0:48:01.279
<v Speaker 3>our life, why they're important, and what happened when they're disrupted,

0:48:01.400 --> 0:48:03.520
<v Speaker 3>which brings me toune dune.

0:48:03.600 --> 0:48:04.880
<v Speaker 1>Dune shift work.

0:48:05.440 --> 0:48:08.920
<v Speaker 3>Shift work has been around forever, or at least for

0:48:09.000 --> 0:48:13.320
<v Speaker 3>thousands of years, standing guard, keeping the fire lit, watching

0:48:13.400 --> 0:48:16.360
<v Speaker 3>over your flock of sheep, caring for the sick or wounded.

0:48:17.000 --> 0:48:21.040
<v Speaker 3>The military and certain trades have long required irregular hours,

0:48:21.160 --> 0:48:23.920
<v Speaker 3>like shipbuilders who had to work with the tides, or

0:48:24.040 --> 0:48:26.760
<v Speaker 3>rope makers. I found a quote by a rope maker

0:48:26.800 --> 0:48:30.680
<v Speaker 3>from seventeen forty two. We cannot make ropes when the

0:48:30.680 --> 0:48:33.359
<v Speaker 3>sun shines. We begin at eight o'clock at night and

0:48:33.400 --> 0:48:35.799
<v Speaker 3>work till eight in the morning, and sometimes we work

0:48:35.880 --> 0:48:38.759
<v Speaker 3>all day if we can hold it. I don't know

0:48:39.000 --> 0:48:41.759
<v Speaker 3>why I tried to look into it. And I even

0:48:41.800 --> 0:48:44.560
<v Speaker 3>asked like blue Sky, and I got varied answers and

0:48:44.600 --> 0:48:47.080
<v Speaker 3>some fun hypotheses. But if anyone knows or is an

0:48:47.120 --> 0:48:49.799
<v Speaker 3>idea they have to work at night, please reach out,

0:48:49.960 --> 0:48:53.240
<v Speaker 3>come find me. But until the late eighteen hundreds, shift

0:48:53.239 --> 0:48:57.319
<v Speaker 3>work was a fairly uncommon occurrence. Then let there be light,

0:48:58.120 --> 0:49:04.160
<v Speaker 3>specifically electrical life. In eighteen ninety two, just three years

0:49:04.239 --> 0:49:06.680
<v Speaker 3>after the invention of the light bulb, the first power

0:49:06.719 --> 0:49:10.319
<v Speaker 3>plant in New York opened, supplying continuous powder to those

0:49:10.400 --> 0:49:14.600
<v Speaker 3>who could receive it. The effect on industry was immediate.

0:49:15.360 --> 0:49:18.759
<v Speaker 3>Factories that had to shutter their doors shortly after the sunset,

0:49:19.200 --> 0:49:22.439
<v Speaker 3>or who used lanterns or gas lights for overnight work,

0:49:22.560 --> 0:49:25.880
<v Speaker 3>could now operate around the clock, bathe in the glow

0:49:26.000 --> 0:49:29.719
<v Speaker 3>of artificial light. For the heads of industry, the benefits

0:49:29.719 --> 0:49:33.120
<v Speaker 3>of around the clock operation were clear again, the word

0:49:33.160 --> 0:49:37.000
<v Speaker 3>optimization comes to mind. Factories could be more efficient while

0:49:37.040 --> 0:49:40.719
<v Speaker 3>maximizing production, and a twenty four hour workday broken down

0:49:40.760 --> 0:49:44.560
<v Speaker 3>into shifts became the new norm for many industries, even

0:49:44.640 --> 0:49:49.319
<v Speaker 3>those that had not previously required continuous labor. Shiftwork was

0:49:49.360 --> 0:49:51.600
<v Speaker 3>not just something to give them a leg up, but

0:49:51.640 --> 0:49:55.160
<v Speaker 3>it was becoming necessary to survive the competition. It was

0:49:55.200 --> 0:49:58.160
<v Speaker 3>apparent that industry was enjoying an economic boom from this

0:49:58.280 --> 0:49:59.239
<v Speaker 3>increased productivity.

0:49:59.440 --> 0:50:03.560
<v Speaker 1>But how were workers faring in this brave, new, well

0:50:03.640 --> 0:50:08.040
<v Speaker 1>lit world? Doing great? I'm sure doing wonderful.

0:50:09.160 --> 0:50:12.120
<v Speaker 3>Interest in this question grew in earnest over the first

0:50:12.160 --> 0:50:15.280
<v Speaker 3>couple decades of the twentieth century, and a new concept

0:50:15.440 --> 0:50:20.200
<v Speaker 3>term industrial fatigue was introduced to describe the exhaustion caused

0:50:20.200 --> 0:50:24.160
<v Speaker 3>by over exertion to long working hours and insufficient rest,

0:50:24.719 --> 0:50:27.440
<v Speaker 3>often measured by a decline in productivity.

0:50:28.600 --> 0:50:31.319
<v Speaker 1>About productivity, Aran, yeah, I mean so.

0:50:31.480 --> 0:50:35.360
<v Speaker 3>Under this framework, human health was reimagined as or equated

0:50:35.440 --> 0:50:39.320
<v Speaker 3>to the body's capacity for productivity. So, in other words,

0:50:39.320 --> 0:50:42.920
<v Speaker 3>if you're sick, that means diminished output. If you're exhausted,

0:50:43.040 --> 0:50:46.319
<v Speaker 3>that means more mistakes, which means diminished output. And this

0:50:46.440 --> 0:50:49.960
<v Speaker 3>concern with worker health and productivity, especially when it came

0:50:50.000 --> 0:50:53.799
<v Speaker 3>to industrial fatigue, led to the formation of committees such

0:50:53.800 --> 0:50:56.600
<v Speaker 3>as the Health of Munition Workers Committee in Great Britain,

0:50:56.880 --> 0:50:59.120
<v Speaker 3>who sought to get a sense of the scope of

0:50:59.160 --> 0:51:03.279
<v Speaker 3>the problem. One thing became clear people working on night

0:51:03.280 --> 0:51:06.799
<v Speaker 3>shift were especially prone to industrial fatigue. So I'm going

0:51:06.800 --> 0:51:09.640
<v Speaker 3>to read you a quote from a nineteen eighteen report

0:51:09.719 --> 0:51:12.920
<v Speaker 3>by the Health of Munition Workers Committee about night shift.

0:51:14.480 --> 0:51:18.240
<v Speaker 3>The objections to night shift may be shortly summarized as follows.

0:51:18.560 --> 0:51:22.280
<v Speaker 3>Number one, it is uneconomical, owing to the higher cost

0:51:22.360 --> 0:51:24.240
<v Speaker 3>of wages, lighting and heating.

0:51:24.680 --> 0:51:25.160
<v Speaker 1>Number two.

0:51:25.320 --> 0:51:28.919
<v Speaker 3>Supervision at night is not always so good as by day,

0:51:29.040 --> 0:51:31.520
<v Speaker 3>owing to less effective lighting or to the employment of

0:51:31.600 --> 0:51:33.480
<v Speaker 3>fewer or less experienced foremen.

0:51:34.080 --> 0:51:34.800
<v Speaker 1>Number three.

0:51:34.920 --> 0:51:38.959
<v Speaker 3>The inferiority of lighting may make work, and especially fine work,

0:51:39.040 --> 0:51:42.440
<v Speaker 3>more difficult. Number four. The workers may be unable to

0:51:42.480 --> 0:51:45.880
<v Speaker 3>obtain adequate sleep by day. This may be the result

0:51:45.960 --> 0:51:49.120
<v Speaker 3>of the dislocation of the ordinary habits of life, or

0:51:49.200 --> 0:51:52.400
<v Speaker 3>of social causes e g. Noises and disturbances, or the

0:51:52.400 --> 0:51:55.800
<v Speaker 3>care of children. Workers are tempted to curtail their period

0:51:55.840 --> 0:51:59.319
<v Speaker 3>of sleep through rising to join the family midday meal,

0:51:59.600 --> 0:52:02.000
<v Speaker 3>or to some recreation and enjoyment.

0:52:02.560 --> 0:52:03.080
<v Speaker 1>Number five.

0:52:03.160 --> 0:52:06.719
<v Speaker 3>Social intercourse, recreation and amusement may be seriously interfered with,

0:52:07.080 --> 0:52:11.480
<v Speaker 3>and number six. Finally, it is not natural to turn

0:52:11.520 --> 0:52:14.239
<v Speaker 3>the night into day and to deprive the body of

0:52:14.280 --> 0:52:16.320
<v Speaker 3>the beneficial effects of sunlight.

0:52:17.400 --> 0:52:20.120
<v Speaker 1>Not natural, not natural, not natural, not wrong.

0:52:21.360 --> 0:52:24.520
<v Speaker 3>So as far back as nineteen eighteen people recognize the

0:52:24.560 --> 0:52:28.040
<v Speaker 3>harm that night shift work could cause, But the next

0:52:28.160 --> 0:52:32.000
<v Speaker 3>line in this report reveals the stark reality facing this

0:52:32.120 --> 0:52:32.720
<v Speaker 3>kind of work.

0:52:33.400 --> 0:52:35.080
<v Speaker 1>Under existing conditions.

0:52:35.360 --> 0:52:38.799
<v Speaker 3>Night work at any rate for men and women is inevitable.

0:52:39.760 --> 0:52:43.360
<v Speaker 3>And those existing conditions that are referenced in that happened

0:52:43.360 --> 0:52:45.520
<v Speaker 3>to be World War One, and then they happened to

0:52:45.560 --> 0:52:48.200
<v Speaker 3>be World War Two, and then night shift work and

0:52:48.239 --> 0:52:50.960
<v Speaker 3>shift work in general stopped being discussed as something that

0:52:51.120 --> 0:52:54.120
<v Speaker 3>was an exception to the rule and slowly became the rule,

0:52:54.360 --> 0:52:59.400
<v Speaker 3>a normal part of many industries, from transportation to hospitality.

0:53:00.280 --> 0:53:01.040
<v Speaker 1>To entertainment.

0:53:01.320 --> 0:53:04.879
<v Speaker 3>Round the clock work became a fact of life. Many

0:53:04.920 --> 0:53:09.360
<v Speaker 3>countries introduced pieces of legislature that limited the harsh working conditions,

0:53:09.480 --> 0:53:12.799
<v Speaker 3>especially like long and irregular hours that had become so

0:53:12.880 --> 0:53:16.360
<v Speaker 3>widespread during the late eighteenth and early nineteen hundreds, but

0:53:16.520 --> 0:53:20.840
<v Speaker 3>shift work remained a staple of industry, growing in prevalence,

0:53:20.880 --> 0:53:23.960
<v Speaker 3>particularly through the mid twentieth century. I can share a

0:53:23.960 --> 0:53:25.640
<v Speaker 3>couple of old stats here if you please.

0:53:25.760 --> 0:53:26.560
<v Speaker 4>Kind of stats.

0:53:26.760 --> 0:53:29.480
<v Speaker 3>Okay, So these are from a nineteen eighty one symposium

0:53:30.040 --> 0:53:33.200
<v Speaker 3>in France. Between nineteen fifty seven and nineteen seventy four,

0:53:33.360 --> 0:53:36.520
<v Speaker 3>the percent of shift work across the workforce more than doubled,

0:53:36.600 --> 0:53:38.200
<v Speaker 3>from ten point three percent.

0:53:37.920 --> 0:53:38.880
<v Speaker 1>To twenty two percent.

0:53:39.000 --> 0:53:42.120
<v Speaker 3>Wow, and in some industries that percentage shot up to

0:53:42.160 --> 0:53:42.800
<v Speaker 3>fifty percent.

0:53:42.840 --> 0:53:43.400
<v Speaker 1>Are over.

0:53:44.120 --> 0:53:46.640
<v Speaker 3>In Great Britain, full time night work was estimated to

0:53:46.680 --> 0:53:50.040
<v Speaker 3>increase by one percent every year from the end of

0:53:50.080 --> 0:53:53.040
<v Speaker 3>World War II to the late nineteen seventies, which one

0:53:53.080 --> 0:53:54.640
<v Speaker 3>percent doesn't sound like much.

0:53:54.480 --> 0:53:57.320
<v Speaker 1>But I have Yeah.

0:53:57.360 --> 0:53:59.279
<v Speaker 3>The bottom line is that over the course of the

0:53:59.280 --> 0:54:02.680
<v Speaker 3>twentieth century, we've got more people than we ever have

0:54:03.080 --> 0:54:07.320
<v Speaker 3>doing shift work. And accompanying this growth in shift work

0:54:07.680 --> 0:54:10.840
<v Speaker 3>was heightened interest in its health effects on shift workers,

0:54:11.239 --> 0:54:15.160
<v Speaker 3>as opposed to solely the effects that it had on accidents, injuries,

0:54:15.280 --> 0:54:19.520
<v Speaker 3>or lost productivity. Partly driving this change in research interest

0:54:19.680 --> 0:54:24.120
<v Speaker 3>was the growing field of chronobiology. While researchers were uncovering

0:54:24.200 --> 0:54:28.200
<v Speaker 3>the physiological basis of the internal clocks that guide circadian rhythms,

0:54:28.560 --> 0:54:32.319
<v Speaker 3>they were also exploring what could happen if or when

0:54:32.560 --> 0:54:37.840
<v Speaker 3>those rhythms were disrupted purpose intentionally and as you might expect,

0:54:38.040 --> 0:54:41.480
<v Speaker 3>this research held great interest to both industry as well

0:54:41.520 --> 0:54:45.359
<v Speaker 3>as the military. Can a person ever truly adjust and

0:54:45.440 --> 0:54:50.520
<v Speaker 3>switch from diurnal to nocturnal spoilers, not so much, not

0:54:50.600 --> 0:54:54.080
<v Speaker 3>so much much? And if so, how long does that

0:54:54.120 --> 0:54:57.040
<v Speaker 3>switch take and how easy is it to reverse it

0:54:57.560 --> 0:54:58.720
<v Speaker 3>go back to normal?

0:54:59.040 --> 0:55:01.200
<v Speaker 1>Can you switch? Is it every two weeks? Is it

0:55:01.200 --> 0:55:03.799
<v Speaker 1>every three weeks? Is it a month? Can it be done?

0:55:03.920 --> 0:55:04.880
<v Speaker 1>Can it be done?

0:55:06.080 --> 0:55:09.040
<v Speaker 3>How do shift work alter physiology of different systems in

0:55:09.120 --> 0:55:12.279
<v Speaker 3>the short term, and what are some potential implications for

0:55:12.360 --> 0:55:13.400
<v Speaker 3>the long term.

0:55:13.920 --> 0:55:15.160
<v Speaker 1>By the nineteen eighties and the.

0:55:15.160 --> 0:55:17.759
<v Speaker 3>Nineteen nineties, some of these long term health effects of

0:55:17.800 --> 0:55:21.399
<v Speaker 3>shift work were coming into focus. Digestion issues, which had

0:55:21.440 --> 0:55:24.239
<v Speaker 3>long been recognized to be a part of shift work,

0:55:24.480 --> 0:55:29.000
<v Speaker 3>cardiovascular disease, cancer immune system issues, diabetes, mood disorders, and

0:55:29.040 --> 0:55:32.239
<v Speaker 3>a host of social and lifestyle risk factors emerged as

0:55:32.360 --> 0:55:36.600
<v Speaker 3>possible consequences of shift work, or, more generally, a disrupted

0:55:36.600 --> 0:55:42.080
<v Speaker 3>circadian rhythm and poor sleep. We have made great strides

0:55:42.160 --> 0:55:44.959
<v Speaker 3>in our ability to evaluate the links between shift work,

0:55:45.120 --> 0:55:50.600
<v Speaker 3>circadian rhythm, and health from epidemiological, physiological, genetic, psychological, and

0:55:50.680 --> 0:55:52.080
<v Speaker 3>sociological perspectives.

0:55:52.239 --> 0:55:53.239
<v Speaker 1>All the perspectives.

0:55:53.760 --> 0:55:56.239
<v Speaker 3>We've also come a long way towards understanding how we

0:55:56.280 --> 0:55:59.920
<v Speaker 3>can control those risks in the workplace. But as everyone

0:56:00.160 --> 0:56:03.919
<v Speaker 3>in this room, everyone listening can attest we've still got

0:56:03.960 --> 0:56:06.600
<v Speaker 3>some ways to go to put what we've learned into

0:56:06.640 --> 0:56:11.400
<v Speaker 3>practice for sustained improvement and prevention. We've recognized the negative

0:56:11.440 --> 0:56:15.000
<v Speaker 3>effects of shift work for over one hundred years since

0:56:15.040 --> 0:56:17.399
<v Speaker 3>it became a feature of our everyday lives, and there

0:56:17.400 --> 0:56:21.840
<v Speaker 3>are some brilliant minds working on innovative solutions to address

0:56:21.880 --> 0:56:25.280
<v Speaker 3>and reduce the impact of circadian rhythm disruptions at both

0:56:25.280 --> 0:56:31.400
<v Speaker 3>individual and systemic levels, and we are so excited to

0:56:31.520 --> 0:56:34.320
<v Speaker 3>have with us here today one of those brilliant minds,

0:56:34.440 --> 0:56:38.040
<v Speaker 3>Doctor Ian Dunican. Like doctor Eilef the provider of our

0:56:38.080 --> 0:56:41.279
<v Speaker 3>first hand account, Doctor Ian Duncan is also originally from

0:56:41.320 --> 0:56:44.840
<v Speaker 3>Ireland but moved to Perth where he completed his many degrees,

0:56:44.960 --> 0:56:48.719
<v Speaker 3>including his PhD in Sleep and Performance, which he earned

0:56:48.719 --> 0:56:52.160
<v Speaker 3>at the University of Western Australia. Doctor Dunicin is the

0:56:52.200 --> 0:56:56.160
<v Speaker 3>director and Chief Advisor of Melia's Consulting, a scientific consultancy

0:56:56.239 --> 0:57:00.000
<v Speaker 3>undertaking research consulting and education, and he also hosts an

0:57:00.120 --> 0:57:04.600
<v Speaker 3>produces the Sleep for Performance podcast fellow podcaster. On top

0:57:04.640 --> 0:57:07.560
<v Speaker 3>of all of that, Doctor Duncan is also an adjunct

0:57:07.560 --> 0:57:10.640
<v Speaker 3>Senior Research Fellow at the University of Western Australia and

0:57:10.800 --> 0:57:15.200
<v Speaker 3>is involved in numerous research projects related to sport, shift work, nutrition, safety,

0:57:15.239 --> 0:57:19.680
<v Speaker 3>death and psychology. So please join me in welcoming doctor Duncan.

0:57:19.920 --> 0:57:21.200
<v Speaker 3>Thanks so much for coming.

0:57:26.800 --> 0:57:28.320
<v Speaker 4>We made this meme just for you.

0:57:28.760 --> 0:57:30.919
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, so just first time I ever heard my name.

0:57:30.960 --> 0:57:34.680
<v Speaker 5>I'm brilliant. Together, so we can retract afterwards, INDI da

0:57:35.520 --> 0:57:36.080
<v Speaker 5>do where.

0:57:35.920 --> 0:57:36.360
<v Speaker 1>We can cut.

0:57:37.520 --> 0:57:39.720
<v Speaker 4>Thank you so much. We're really really excited to chat

0:57:39.760 --> 0:57:43.360
<v Speaker 4>with you. We're going to just pepper you with questions ready. So,

0:57:43.840 --> 0:57:46.360
<v Speaker 4>like Aaron kind of has described already, we've known for

0:57:46.400 --> 0:57:49.440
<v Speaker 4>a really long time that work that disrupts circadian rhythms

0:57:49.440 --> 0:57:52.240
<v Speaker 4>can be pretty detrimental to human health. So if we

0:57:52.280 --> 0:57:56.360
<v Speaker 4>look first from a system's perspective, what measures can organizations

0:57:56.440 --> 0:57:59.560
<v Speaker 4>or companies take to help reduce the impact of shift work.

0:58:00.040 --> 0:58:02.280
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's a good question. I think it's really important

0:58:02.280 --> 0:58:05.840
<v Speaker 5>to take a systematic view. Many companies to just chase

0:58:05.880 --> 0:58:09.440
<v Speaker 5>one thing and go ooh, let's get technology, let's look

0:58:09.480 --> 0:58:12.880
<v Speaker 5>at rosters. So we always advocate a system view, and

0:58:12.920 --> 0:58:15.080
<v Speaker 5>we have this paper that we published a couple of

0:58:15.160 --> 0:58:17.880
<v Speaker 5>years ago in Safety and Health at Work, which has

0:58:17.920 --> 0:58:20.880
<v Speaker 5>fourteen elements and it's very holistic. Some of those key

0:58:20.880 --> 0:58:25.520
<v Speaker 5>elements of obviously include things like shifts and rosters, sleep disorders,

0:58:25.520 --> 0:58:27.800
<v Speaker 5>which many people really don't focus on. I know you

0:58:27.840 --> 0:58:31.280
<v Speaker 5>spoke about sleep happening earlier on. There's over seventy seven

0:58:31.440 --> 0:58:34.880
<v Speaker 5>zero recognize disorders by the American Academy of Sleep Medicine

0:58:34.920 --> 0:58:37.840
<v Speaker 5>that we follow here in Australia. But typically many companies

0:58:38.200 --> 0:58:42.240
<v Speaker 5>just administer a questionnaire like the Airport Sleeping Scale, and

0:58:42.280 --> 0:58:44.880
<v Speaker 5>I think that's an actual sleep disorder program when it's not,

0:58:45.000 --> 0:58:48.120
<v Speaker 5>So we need to look more holistically there. Other components

0:58:48.160 --> 0:58:50.480
<v Speaker 5>include educating our workforce and that's not just a few

0:58:50.520 --> 0:58:53.360
<v Speaker 5>slides and induction, that's actually spending two to three hours,

0:58:53.520 --> 0:58:55.640
<v Speaker 5>you know, like what you've done here today in more

0:58:55.680 --> 0:58:58.480
<v Speaker 5>detail about how to manage shift work at a personal

0:58:58.560 --> 0:59:02.160
<v Speaker 5>level around sleep path and diet, nutrition, commuting to work

0:59:02.280 --> 0:59:04.800
<v Speaker 5>if travels involved as well. So these are just some

0:59:04.880 --> 0:59:06.720
<v Speaker 5>of the elements that we would take in a system

0:59:06.840 --> 0:59:09.360
<v Speaker 5>view as well. But another crucial aspect not to be

0:59:09.440 --> 0:59:12.520
<v Speaker 5>overlooked is actually staffing, because if we don't have enough

0:59:12.520 --> 0:59:14.160
<v Speaker 5>people to do the job, we're just going to lead

0:59:14.200 --> 0:59:17.080
<v Speaker 5>to more and over time, more stress on the individuals

0:59:17.120 --> 0:59:19.920
<v Speaker 5>and more rework, and so it's very important at the

0:59:19.960 --> 0:59:22.480
<v Speaker 5>first level that we have the staff incorrect before we

0:59:22.480 --> 0:59:25.520
<v Speaker 5>start trying to implement the system. And finally, on this point,

0:59:26.080 --> 0:59:28.360
<v Speaker 5>you don't actually have to have a system that stands alone.

0:59:28.400 --> 0:59:31.080
<v Speaker 5>That system could be integrated in your health, your safety,

0:59:31.160 --> 0:59:34.200
<v Speaker 5>or other sort of systems there in a business, So

0:59:34.200 --> 0:59:35.959
<v Speaker 5>it doesn't have to be a standalone or a newly

0:59:35.960 --> 0:59:39.400
<v Speaker 5>constructed system. It may exist in other ones as well.

0:59:39.480 --> 0:59:40.720
<v Speaker 4>Okay, that makes sense.

0:59:40.880 --> 0:59:43.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, And so maybe you're lucky enough to work

0:59:43.600 --> 0:59:45.800
<v Speaker 3>at one of these places that does incorporate a more

0:59:45.800 --> 0:59:48.600
<v Speaker 3>holistic view of sleep and shift work.

0:59:48.600 --> 0:59:49.360
<v Speaker 1>Or maybe you're not.

0:59:49.520 --> 0:59:52.880
<v Speaker 3>But what can anyone do at an individual level to

0:59:53.240 --> 0:59:56.360
<v Speaker 3>kind of reduce the negative impacts of shift work?

0:59:56.960 --> 0:59:59.200
<v Speaker 5>Yeah? I think at the individual level, I think you've

0:59:59.240 --> 1:00:00.960
<v Speaker 5>done a really good job, say, highlighting some of the

1:00:01.000 --> 1:00:03.200
<v Speaker 5>negative impacts. But what a lot of studies haven't done

1:00:03.360 --> 1:00:05.640
<v Speaker 5>is look that what is the benefit of some of

1:00:05.680 --> 1:00:09.280
<v Speaker 5>the interventions or case controlled studies where people are doing

1:00:09.320 --> 1:00:11.280
<v Speaker 5>something going forward. The first thing I would say to

1:00:11.360 --> 1:00:15.280
<v Speaker 5>anybody undertaking shift work is keeping your own physical fitness

1:00:15.280 --> 1:00:19.320
<v Speaker 5>and mental health and check is number one. So you know,

1:00:19.440 --> 1:00:22.960
<v Speaker 5>excessive alcohol consumption that we see excessive nicotine caffeins that

1:00:23.000 --> 1:00:25.080
<v Speaker 5>we see in shift workers, we need to bring that

1:00:25.160 --> 1:00:28.520
<v Speaker 5>back into normal tolerable levels. When we start increasing our

1:00:28.520 --> 1:00:30.360
<v Speaker 5>body weight, that's going to lead to things like sleep

1:00:30.360 --> 1:00:32.880
<v Speaker 5>with their breeding disorders, it's going to lead to more

1:00:32.920 --> 1:00:35.480
<v Speaker 5>like generalized fatigue that you define that will start as well.

1:00:35.760 --> 1:00:38.120
<v Speaker 5>So it's really important that your own physical fitness and

1:00:38.160 --> 1:00:40.400
<v Speaker 5>mental health and well being is in checking and shape.

1:00:40.840 --> 1:00:43.560
<v Speaker 5>And that's really key, I would say for individuals and

1:00:43.640 --> 1:00:46.600
<v Speaker 5>also as well when you are away undertaking shift work,

1:00:46.640 --> 1:00:48.920
<v Speaker 5>whether it's here in Western Australia elsewhere, like in the

1:00:48.960 --> 1:00:51.920
<v Speaker 5>classic fly and flyout, is having a routine. And that

1:00:52.000 --> 1:00:53.960
<v Speaker 5>routine doesn't mean going to the pub every night and

1:00:54.000 --> 1:00:58.160
<v Speaker 5>having things. That routine may involves some exercise, connecting with

1:00:58.200 --> 1:01:00.560
<v Speaker 5>other people, family and friends back home as well. So

1:01:00.960 --> 1:01:03.200
<v Speaker 5>it needs to be holistic in nature as well.

1:01:03.200 --> 1:01:05.840
<v Speaker 4>For the individual just being healthy.

1:01:05.640 --> 1:01:09.080
<v Speaker 5>You mean, yes, which is difficult over twelve thirteen hour days,

1:01:09.480 --> 1:01:10.840
<v Speaker 5>but you go to mag time. And I would say to

1:01:10.840 --> 1:01:12.680
<v Speaker 5>people as well, don't think about going to the gym

1:01:12.720 --> 1:01:14.680
<v Speaker 5>as a one or two hour exercise. Even fifteen to

1:01:14.680 --> 1:01:17.080
<v Speaker 5>twenty minutes of high intensity exercise can be really good

1:01:17.080 --> 1:01:18.040
<v Speaker 5>for you and.

1:01:18.160 --> 1:01:20.360
<v Speaker 3>Just having that routine right there were just such a

1:01:20.360 --> 1:01:21.480
<v Speaker 3>hard part to maintained.

1:01:21.520 --> 1:01:22.240
<v Speaker 5>But it's recially.

1:01:22.080 --> 1:01:24.800
<v Speaker 4>Important if you're on those rotating shifts or things like that.

1:01:24.840 --> 1:01:27.160
<v Speaker 4>But that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, So a

1:01:27.160 --> 1:01:28.920
<v Speaker 4>hot topic, hot button.

1:01:28.680 --> 1:01:29.640
<v Speaker 1>Topic these days.

1:01:29.800 --> 1:01:33.440
<v Speaker 4>Why we made you this meme is our screens, especially

1:01:33.440 --> 1:01:36.600
<v Speaker 4>our personal devices, and especially the use of those at night.

1:01:36.960 --> 1:01:39.320
<v Speaker 4>So I want to ask you what do we actually

1:01:39.480 --> 1:01:43.200
<v Speaker 4>know about how much these devices are disrupting our sleep

1:01:43.280 --> 1:01:46.920
<v Speaker 4>or disrupting our circadian rhythms and contributing to things like fatigue,

1:01:47.080 --> 1:01:49.600
<v Speaker 4>and how much of it is the light or the

1:01:49.600 --> 1:01:51.560
<v Speaker 4>things that we're doing with our devices.

1:01:51.640 --> 1:01:53.360
<v Speaker 5>So do you want the scientific answer or do you

1:01:53.400 --> 1:01:54.440
<v Speaker 5>want to clickbdswer.

1:01:55.320 --> 1:01:57.400
<v Speaker 4>I don't any more answers that I want.

1:01:57.880 --> 1:01:59.640
<v Speaker 5>Because I don't give you a klick answer. It's really

1:01:59.680 --> 1:02:02.800
<v Speaker 5>interesting because we did discuss this a few weeks ago. However,

1:02:02.880 --> 1:02:04.480
<v Speaker 5>over the last few days there has been a bill

1:02:04.560 --> 1:02:07.840
<v Speaker 5>introduced in Australia to band social media. Why yes, so

1:02:07.920 --> 1:02:11.000
<v Speaker 5>this was past their day. I believe I'm not getting

1:02:11.000 --> 1:02:12.800
<v Speaker 5>into politics and good that's as far as I'll going.

1:02:13.440 --> 1:02:16.160
<v Speaker 5>So if we look at electronic device use and its

1:02:16.160 --> 1:02:18.440
<v Speaker 5>impact on sleep. There's two ways of looking at this.

1:02:18.680 --> 1:02:21.640
<v Speaker 5>One is the subjective evidence, how do people report their

1:02:21.680 --> 1:02:25.240
<v Speaker 5>feel with electrinic devices? And two is the objective evidence.

1:02:25.440 --> 1:02:29.200
<v Speaker 5>What's happening in laboratories with polysymnography, what's happening with actigraphy

1:02:29.200 --> 1:02:32.320
<v Speaker 5>of risk warned devices. The subjective stuff is saying, Ooh,

1:02:32.360 --> 1:02:34.840
<v Speaker 5>this is really impacted my sleep. The objective stuff is

1:02:34.880 --> 1:02:38.200
<v Speaker 5>saying it's not. So. The science and the data and

1:02:38.200 --> 1:02:41.840
<v Speaker 5>the quantitative method actually is showing very little of how

1:02:41.880 --> 1:02:44.440
<v Speaker 5>it's out there. We're currently undertaking a systematic review in

1:02:44.440 --> 1:02:47.680
<v Speaker 5>a meta analysis a few scientists around that from around

1:02:47.680 --> 1:02:49.680
<v Speaker 5>the world. Russell Foster, who you may know who actually

1:02:49.680 --> 1:02:52.680
<v Speaker 5>discovered the SCN he's on that paper with us as well.

1:02:53.120 --> 1:02:56.520
<v Speaker 5>And so what we're finding so far self reported stuff,

1:02:57.040 --> 1:02:59.520
<v Speaker 5>very influenced I think by the media and the general population.

1:03:00.040 --> 1:03:04.720
<v Speaker 5>I've ran two studies and athletes no impact onto sleep. However,

1:03:04.880 --> 1:03:07.320
<v Speaker 5>there's three mechanisms how they're trying devices may be impact

1:03:07.360 --> 1:03:10.240
<v Speaker 5>on sleep. One is the light emitting from these devices

1:03:10.360 --> 1:03:13.120
<v Speaker 5>that could be TV, iPad, social media, could be anything

1:03:13.240 --> 1:03:16.920
<v Speaker 5>or gaming. Two, the nature or the stimulate and activity.

1:03:17.040 --> 1:03:18.920
<v Speaker 5>And many of us in this room do this we

1:03:19.000 --> 1:03:21.320
<v Speaker 5>get home, put the kids to bed, do or exercise

1:03:21.360 --> 1:03:22.840
<v Speaker 5>whatever it might be, and then we go, oh, a

1:03:22.840 --> 1:03:25.080
<v Speaker 5>bit of me time. I put on Netflix, open up

1:03:25.080 --> 1:03:27.520
<v Speaker 5>my laptop, do some me melts. I check Instagram as

1:03:27.520 --> 1:03:29.920
<v Speaker 5>well while I'm having a glass wine and healthy dark chocolate.

1:03:30.120 --> 1:03:34.200
<v Speaker 5>And it's always like stimulation plus alcohol plus caffeine, and

1:03:34.240 --> 1:03:35.600
<v Speaker 5>then you wonder why you can't sleep.

1:03:38.160 --> 1:03:39.840
<v Speaker 1>A single explanation there, and as.

1:03:39.760 --> 1:03:42.960
<v Speaker 5>You've explained in your in your reviewerer on is in

1:03:43.000 --> 1:03:45.400
<v Speaker 5>the in the graph is when court sool is high,

1:03:45.440 --> 1:03:47.680
<v Speaker 5>melatonin can't be released. So we're doing all the stimulate

1:03:47.680 --> 1:03:50.800
<v Speaker 5>and activity, we cannot release melatonin or it delays the

1:03:50.880 --> 1:03:54.120
<v Speaker 5>time of melatonin. And but also what artificial light may

1:03:54.160 --> 1:03:56.280
<v Speaker 5>have that impact, as we said, and the final thing

1:03:56.320 --> 1:04:00.200
<v Speaker 5>is that we're replacing sleep time with other times. See

1:04:00.200 --> 1:04:02.680
<v Speaker 5>example is I'll just watch one more and tonight Yellowstone

1:04:02.680 --> 1:04:06.600
<v Speaker 5>as that as well. But the bad part about Yellowstone

1:04:06.600 --> 1:04:08.120
<v Speaker 5>at the moment, which is also good, is there's not

1:04:08.200 --> 1:04:09.920
<v Speaker 5>one more episode because it comes out weekly.

1:04:10.800 --> 1:04:13.680
<v Speaker 1>That's the trick. That's why streaming services.

1:04:13.760 --> 1:04:15.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so that's what we can actually blame is Netflix.

1:04:16.080 --> 1:04:19.280
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, no, we can't blame Netflix. Yeah, it's on stand

1:04:19.320 --> 1:04:23.080
<v Speaker 5>here in Australia anyway. So that's why I'm wearing my

1:04:23.120 --> 1:04:26.520
<v Speaker 5>Ora William's boots and belt today. And for Yellowstone I

1:04:26.560 --> 1:04:30.640
<v Speaker 5>was going to my wife said no, I recently bought

1:04:30.680 --> 1:04:35.120
<v Speaker 5>my scuba So it's it's those three mechanisms, delight the

1:04:35.240 --> 1:04:38.240
<v Speaker 5>type of activity and then replacing sleep time. But so

1:04:38.320 --> 1:04:39.880
<v Speaker 5>far we are not seeing at the finite of link.

1:04:40.000 --> 1:04:41.760
<v Speaker 5>A couple of weeks ago we had the Australasian Sleep

1:04:41.760 --> 1:04:45.120
<v Speaker 5>Association conference in the Gold Coast and even a massive

1:04:45.120 --> 1:04:48.200
<v Speaker 5>study looking at body motion cameras with kids, no results,

1:04:48.280 --> 1:04:49.200
<v Speaker 5>no impact on sleep.

1:04:49.280 --> 1:04:52.439
<v Speaker 4>Wow, it's so interesting because all of the like recommendations

1:04:52.440 --> 1:04:54.720
<v Speaker 4>are still like no screen time one hour two hours

1:04:54.760 --> 1:04:58.919
<v Speaker 4>before bed, even like all the sleep you know, organizations

1:04:58.920 --> 1:05:02.320
<v Speaker 4>still like recommend that blanket statement, which is so interesting but.

1:05:02.280 --> 1:05:04.160
<v Speaker 5>It's not definitive. But I would say the people is,

1:05:04.160 --> 1:05:07.600
<v Speaker 5>if you're having troubled sleeping, shift work disorder, sleep on set,

1:05:07.640 --> 1:05:12.200
<v Speaker 5>insomnia and trouble winding down, eliminate that activity before bed. Yeah,

1:05:12.400 --> 1:05:15.960
<v Speaker 5>lessen that light and just basically use that time to

1:05:15.960 --> 1:05:19.560
<v Speaker 5>basically just wind down and candown, which probably leads into

1:05:19.720 --> 1:05:22.880
<v Speaker 5>the recommendations on light yep, yeah, exact this is something

1:05:22.880 --> 1:05:24.000
<v Speaker 5>that we're really saying.

1:05:23.760 --> 1:05:25.320
<v Speaker 4>Now, Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

1:05:25.400 --> 1:05:26.240
<v Speaker 1>That makes a lot of sense.

1:05:26.800 --> 1:05:29.520
<v Speaker 3>And so this may or may not be a question

1:05:29.640 --> 1:05:32.760
<v Speaker 3>of personal interest, seeing as we just traveled across nine

1:05:32.800 --> 1:05:34.080
<v Speaker 3>and ten times a.

1:05:34.040 --> 1:05:36.360
<v Speaker 1>Million time zones. That is what it feels like sometimes.

1:05:36.720 --> 1:05:40.560
<v Speaker 3>But what can we do to minimize or escape the

1:05:40.600 --> 1:05:41.720
<v Speaker 3>effects of jet lag?

1:05:41.800 --> 1:05:44.640
<v Speaker 1>Like, are there any are there any tips or tricks?

1:05:44.720 --> 1:05:47.120
<v Speaker 3>Or are we all just doomed to be sleep deprived

1:05:47.200 --> 1:05:49.720
<v Speaker 3>and brain fog and groggy when we cross more than

1:05:49.720 --> 1:05:50.760
<v Speaker 3>a couple of time zones?

1:05:51.280 --> 1:05:53.840
<v Speaker 5>Yeah? You you really are. But you can't lessen to that.

1:05:53.880 --> 1:05:56.320
<v Speaker 5>You can you can? Yeah, the answer is yes, you're

1:05:56.320 --> 1:05:58.000
<v Speaker 5>going to be. You're going to be impacted by jet lag.

1:05:58.000 --> 1:06:00.480
<v Speaker 5>There's no escape now, there is no biohack. Regardless of

1:06:00.480 --> 1:06:02.320
<v Speaker 5>who you listen to on a podcast. You cannot buy

1:06:02.360 --> 1:06:04.560
<v Speaker 5>a hackle a jet like. And then people go who

1:06:04.600 --> 1:06:06.640
<v Speaker 5>happened years ago? And people came to Australia, they came

1:06:06.680 --> 1:06:08.920
<v Speaker 5>on a slow moving shit it's UK six weeks so

1:06:09.160 --> 1:06:12.320
<v Speaker 5>slowly or justice. But now we have this rapid transmittitian

1:06:12.360 --> 1:06:14.520
<v Speaker 5>travel which leads to jet like. So you can do

1:06:14.560 --> 1:06:16.720
<v Speaker 5>some preadaptation like with shift work, but a lot of

1:06:16.720 --> 1:06:18.600
<v Speaker 5>people can't do that because they're trying to work before

1:06:18.640 --> 1:06:20.760
<v Speaker 5>they go. And then you've got to really kind of

1:06:20.800 --> 1:06:23.200
<v Speaker 5>use rapid adaption when you get there, and going east

1:06:23.240 --> 1:06:25.760
<v Speaker 5>and west will have different effects like switching from days

1:06:25.760 --> 1:06:28.320
<v Speaker 5>to nights or nights to days and shift work, and

1:06:28.400 --> 1:06:30.840
<v Speaker 5>so there's many things you can do. The number one

1:06:30.880 --> 1:06:33.960
<v Speaker 5>thing I would say is light. Light is key. So

1:06:34.080 --> 1:06:36.360
<v Speaker 5>for you two here today trying to get over jet

1:06:36.480 --> 1:06:38.600
<v Speaker 5>like this is the worst environment you come be in.

1:06:39.120 --> 1:06:43.240
<v Speaker 5>Nice and dark. Nice include artificial light, no Zeitgerber's no

1:06:43.360 --> 1:06:46.240
<v Speaker 5>time givers. It's a bit like a casino, and that's

1:06:46.240 --> 1:06:48.240
<v Speaker 5>what they do when a casino, they use all those

1:06:48.280 --> 1:06:49.760
<v Speaker 5>things against you to keep you in there.

1:06:50.880 --> 1:06:51.480
<v Speaker 4>What's going on?

1:06:51.880 --> 1:06:55.000
<v Speaker 5>And now at twelveth midnight that we are now, we've

1:06:55.000 --> 1:06:57.240
<v Speaker 5>got no idea what time it is, and so that's

1:06:57.320 --> 1:06:59.440
<v Speaker 5>that's what's happening there as well. But with that, I

1:06:59.440 --> 1:07:03.280
<v Speaker 5>would say people trying to overcome jet light is light

1:07:03.400 --> 1:07:05.800
<v Speaker 5>and natural light as key. So today I would recommend

1:07:05.840 --> 1:07:08.320
<v Speaker 5>as much natural light as possible. That's the number one

1:07:08.360 --> 1:07:10.640
<v Speaker 5>mechanism you can do. So you need to get and

1:07:10.640 --> 1:07:13.720
<v Speaker 5>go straight because you sign get some fresh air and

1:07:13.760 --> 1:07:14.400
<v Speaker 5>get some movement.

1:07:14.560 --> 1:07:17.600
<v Speaker 4>Oh, I love it. We have one last question for you.

1:07:17.960 --> 1:07:20.320
<v Speaker 4>It seems like a very exciting time to be working

1:07:20.360 --> 1:07:23.440
<v Speaker 4>in these fields in coronibiology and sleep science. What are

1:07:23.480 --> 1:07:26.800
<v Speaker 4>you most excited about or most hopeful for in the

1:07:26.840 --> 1:07:28.080
<v Speaker 4>future of this field of research.

1:07:28.240 --> 1:07:30.520
<v Speaker 5>I think some of the most interesting research is coming

1:07:30.560 --> 1:07:32.760
<v Speaker 5>out of Flinders University and Adelette at the moment, and

1:07:32.800 --> 1:07:35.480
<v Speaker 5>it's looking at light. Now. I'm separating the word light

1:07:35.560 --> 1:07:38.200
<v Speaker 5>from social media and I'm looking at the impact of

1:07:38.640 --> 1:07:41.680
<v Speaker 5>light on our health. Like you spoke about artificial light,

1:07:41.880 --> 1:07:45.080
<v Speaker 5>people working a nighttime and so on, Sean Ken, Andrew Phillips,

1:07:45.120 --> 1:07:46.960
<v Speaker 5>Angus Burns, some of those guys there are doing some

1:07:47.000 --> 1:07:50.240
<v Speaker 5>really interesting work around the long term impact of light,

1:07:50.280 --> 1:07:53.000
<v Speaker 5>and you're using the UK Biobank data to show the

1:07:53.040 --> 1:07:58.080
<v Speaker 5>impact on cardiovascular disease, mortality, all of these things as well.

1:07:58.280 --> 1:08:00.560
<v Speaker 5>And as you said earlier on, in this in this

1:08:00.640 --> 1:08:04.040
<v Speaker 5>research space, still lots to do. But we know that

1:08:04.200 --> 1:08:06.240
<v Speaker 5>so far at less than three percent of people can

1:08:06.320 --> 1:08:10.040
<v Speaker 5>fully adapt to permanent night shift. And that's very very

1:08:10.080 --> 1:08:13.280
<v Speaker 5>few people, but most people think they can. So you

1:08:13.360 --> 1:08:15.840
<v Speaker 5>cannot buy or hack your way out of this. There

1:08:15.880 --> 1:08:18.320
<v Speaker 5>is no free ride and you've really displayed that today.

1:08:18.800 --> 1:08:20.560
<v Speaker 5>So what I would say is that the sort of

1:08:20.600 --> 1:08:22.840
<v Speaker 5>the light and this science is really key going forward.

1:08:23.040 --> 1:08:26.719
<v Speaker 5>And the final part is I think using individual sleep

1:08:27.320 --> 1:08:29.519
<v Speaker 5>tracking metrics is really key for the future because we

1:08:29.560 --> 1:08:32.080
<v Speaker 5>have to individualize this, and we're starting to look at

1:08:32.160 --> 1:08:35.519
<v Speaker 5>individualizing light as well, because people have different sensitivities to

1:08:35.600 --> 1:08:37.599
<v Speaker 5>like some people can be in a brightly lit room

1:08:37.680 --> 1:08:40.240
<v Speaker 5>go straight to sleep, other people can. So looking at

1:08:40.320 --> 1:08:43.000
<v Speaker 5>more an individual level of sleep and weight patterns and

1:08:43.160 --> 1:08:45.720
<v Speaker 5>individual light sensitivity as well as the next phase I

1:08:45.760 --> 1:08:48.520
<v Speaker 5>think we're going to get into that's fascinating.

1:08:48.600 --> 1:08:50.960
<v Speaker 3>I now have a million more questions. Yeah, but I

1:08:51.000 --> 1:08:52.559
<v Speaker 3>know that we do have to wrap this up.

1:08:52.680 --> 1:08:55.599
<v Speaker 1>So thank you so much for sharing your expertise with

1:08:55.680 --> 1:08:57.080
<v Speaker 1>us today. That was super fun.

1:08:57.160 --> 1:09:00.280
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, we were really excited if everyone here also got

1:09:00.320 --> 1:09:02.240
<v Speaker 4>really stoked about this and wants to learn a lot

1:09:02.320 --> 1:09:05.400
<v Speaker 4>more about circadian rhythms about shift work. We have a

1:09:05.520 --> 1:09:07.880
<v Speaker 4>very long list of the sources that we used to

1:09:07.920 --> 1:09:09.440
<v Speaker 4>put together this episode.

1:09:09.560 --> 1:09:12.840
<v Speaker 1>There's another page. There's a lot just come and find us.

1:09:12.840 --> 1:09:16.519
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, and I've got a ton of sources for this,

1:09:16.640 --> 1:09:18.360
<v Speaker 3>but we always shout out just a couple that we

1:09:18.400 --> 1:09:21.800
<v Speaker 3>want to specifically highlight, so two in particular. One is

1:09:21.840 --> 1:09:25.360
<v Speaker 3>a book by Russell Foster and Leon Kreutzman titled Circadian Rhythms,

1:09:25.360 --> 1:09:28.840
<v Speaker 3>a very short introduction published in twenty seventeen, and on

1:09:28.880 --> 1:09:31.040
<v Speaker 3>the history of shift work side of things, there was

1:09:31.080 --> 1:09:34.160
<v Speaker 3>a great nineteen eighty six paper by Gordon at All

1:09:34.520 --> 1:09:37.040
<v Speaker 3>titled the Prevalence and Health Impact of Shift Work from

1:09:37.080 --> 1:09:38.599
<v Speaker 3>the American Journal of Public Health.

1:09:39.120 --> 1:09:41.320
<v Speaker 4>And then I also had a number of sources a

1:09:41.400 --> 1:09:45.000
<v Speaker 4>couple really great overview papers about circadian rhythm that I loved.

1:09:45.040 --> 1:09:47.519
<v Speaker 4>One was from the Lancet twenty twenty two by Meyer

1:09:47.600 --> 1:09:50.599
<v Speaker 4>had All titled Circadian Rhythms and Disorders of the Timing

1:09:50.640 --> 1:09:53.280
<v Speaker 4>of Sleep, and that was part of a four part

1:09:53.400 --> 1:09:56.320
<v Speaker 4>series that was also really really great. And then another

1:09:56.360 --> 1:09:58.599
<v Speaker 4>one from the New England Journal of Medicine by Eleda

1:09:58.640 --> 1:10:01.480
<v Speaker 4>and Bass in twenty twenty one, Circadian Rhythms in Medicine.

1:10:01.560 --> 1:10:03.400
<v Speaker 4>But we had a lot. We always post them on

1:10:03.439 --> 1:10:05.599
<v Speaker 4>our website, This podcast will Kill You dot com. Under

1:10:05.640 --> 1:10:07.599
<v Speaker 4>the episodes tab, you'll be able to find this list

1:10:07.640 --> 1:10:09.360
<v Speaker 4>of all of our sources.

1:10:09.360 --> 1:10:11.759
<v Speaker 1>I was going to say, please and your session.

1:10:11.840 --> 1:10:13.880
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yeah, I just released a book today for pre

1:10:14.000 --> 1:10:17.800
<v Speaker 5>order on and it's called Thank You very Much. It's

1:10:17.840 --> 1:10:23.120
<v Speaker 5>a ghostwriter and it's called a Guide for Sleep, Health

1:10:23.120 --> 1:10:23.800
<v Speaker 5>and Shipwork.

1:10:23.920 --> 1:10:25.519
<v Speaker 1>I love it and it's got over two.

1:10:25.479 --> 1:10:27.640
<v Speaker 5>Hundred and forty references in it and as designed for

1:10:27.680 --> 1:10:30.799
<v Speaker 5>people doing shift work organizing sleep and shift work patterns.

1:10:30.960 --> 1:10:33.320
<v Speaker 5>It's available for pre order, it's up on LinkedIn, It's

1:10:33.320 --> 1:10:36.160
<v Speaker 5>on our website Mellia's Consulting. Fantastic over there and do it.

1:10:36.200 --> 1:10:39.320
<v Speaker 5>And tomorrow we have a Fatigue Management symposium from Holt

1:10:39.360 --> 1:10:41.839
<v Speaker 5>Past one to Holt Past two and we'll be delving

1:10:41.880 --> 1:10:45.320
<v Speaker 5>more into this with five session, five speakers in that session.

1:10:45.439 --> 1:10:46.880
<v Speaker 4>Excellent, that's going to be great.

1:10:47.040 --> 1:10:49.320
<v Speaker 3>Thank you well, and a big thank you again to

1:10:49.520 --> 1:10:53.080
<v Speaker 3>doctor Ilf and also you doctor Dunikan for sharing experience

1:10:53.080 --> 1:10:54.240
<v Speaker 3>and expertise with us.

1:10:54.520 --> 1:10:55.400
<v Speaker 1>We really appreciate it.

1:10:55.479 --> 1:10:58.360
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and thank you again to Zach Bentley, Kelly Piper's,

1:10:58.520 --> 1:11:02.479
<v Speaker 4>David Lowry and everybody body else here at AI Oh.

1:11:02.600 --> 1:11:04.840
<v Speaker 4>I can't say it, I know, and I say the

1:11:05.040 --> 1:11:05.439
<v Speaker 4>H wrong.

1:11:05.560 --> 1:11:05.800
<v Speaker 1>I know.

1:11:07.560 --> 1:11:12.479
<v Speaker 4>No, Thank you everyone for inviting us and for organizing

1:11:12.479 --> 1:11:12.920
<v Speaker 4>this conference.

1:11:12.960 --> 1:11:14.320
<v Speaker 1>We're really really excited to be.

1:11:14.240 --> 1:11:17.280
<v Speaker 3>Here and we've got a couple more of our usual

1:11:17.680 --> 1:11:20.560
<v Speaker 3>outro episode thank yous, which is thank you to Bloodmobile

1:11:20.600 --> 1:11:22.640
<v Speaker 3>for providing the music for this episode and all of

1:11:22.680 --> 1:11:23.400
<v Speaker 3>our episodes.

1:11:23.640 --> 1:11:24.720
<v Speaker 1>Thank you to Leona.

1:11:24.479 --> 1:11:27.880
<v Speaker 3>Sculacchi and Tom Bryfocal for their amazing audio mixing. Thank

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<v Speaker 3>you to everyone at Exactly Right, and a huge thank

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<v Speaker 3>you to our amazing listeners, including everyone here today. Thank you,

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<v Speaker 3>thank you, thank you, and until next time, wash your hands,

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<v Speaker 3>you filthy animals.

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<v Speaker 1>I've never send that to people in real life. Sorry.

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<v Speaker 6>Oh um um

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<v Speaker 4>Uh