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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us

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Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen on

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Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: There's been great concern, mainly among Democrats, over a possible

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Speaker 2: third party or so called unity candidate running in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty four, as the group No Labels Today fans the

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Speaker 2: flames of the big event in New Hampshire, featuring names

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Speaker 2: including Senator Joe Manchin, who, of course some think is

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Speaker 2: considering a third party run. It's not an accident that

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Speaker 2: he ends up there, and he's been working with No

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Speaker 2: Labels for a while. Joe Lieberman is part of that

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Speaker 2: group No Labels and talked about the idea of running

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Speaker 2: against a Donald Trump Joe Biden world hypothetical, of course,

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four. He talked about it on ABC

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Speaker 2: this Week.

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Speaker 3: We think the American people are so fed up with

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Speaker 3: the two parties and so pessimistic about the course that

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Speaker 3: our country is on, that they may well be ready

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Speaker 3: for a third choice, a bipartisan unity choice next year.

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Speaker 3: And if that's the way the polling look we're going

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Speaker 3: to run, of.

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Speaker 2: Course, Democrat turned independent, and you knows a thing or

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Speaker 2: two about running as the third party. Has a little

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Speaker 2: experience in that. We talked to one of Joe Lieberman's

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Speaker 2: colleagues now at No Labels. Pat McCrory, the former governor

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Speaker 2: of North Carolina, is national co chair of No Labels,

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Speaker 2: and he joins us from the event in New Hampshire. Governor,

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Speaker 2: welcome back to Bloomberg.

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Speaker 4: Oh, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Well, people have a lot of basic questions for you

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Speaker 2: and your group right now and how what you're up

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Speaker 2: to might play into this presidential cycle. Is there going

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Speaker 2: to be a Mansion Huntsman ticket for president?

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Speaker 4: Well, we haven't decided yet whether we're going to have

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Speaker 4: a ticket or not, but our first goal is to

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Speaker 4: get on every ballot in the fifty states as an

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Speaker 4: insurance policy in case after Super Tuesday of next year,

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Speaker 4: Trump and Biden are the two candidates that look like

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Speaker 4: will win and then will most likely run a third

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Speaker 4: ticket presidential ticket, most likely bipartisan ticket president and vice president.

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Speaker 4: But only if Biden and Trump are the two final nominees,

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Speaker 4: because according to those surveys, more than sixty to sixty

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Speaker 4: five percent that people don't want either one of them. Therefore,

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Speaker 4: a third party candidate would have a very good chance

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Speaker 4: of winning the electoral voting, and that's our goal. But

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Speaker 4: between now and then, what we hope to do is

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Speaker 4: influence the two political parties with a common sense agenda.

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Speaker 2: So, if Donald Trump is not the Republican nominee and

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden is still running, does that change the equation

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Speaker 2: for you? You need them both to be in place.

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Speaker 4: Most likely, based upon our surveys, we've never seen such

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Speaker 4: dissatisfaction with those two candidates facing each other in American history.

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Speaker 4: Usually about forty percent of the people disagree with the

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Speaker 4: two nominees. Now we have that well over sixty percent.

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Speaker 4: So we've never seen this variant. So the historians are

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Speaker 4: all saying, the pundent historians are all going, well, there's

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Speaker 4: no way a third party could win. Well, there's never

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Speaker 4: been a circumstance where the two parties and the leading

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Speaker 4: candidates have been so far disconnected with the majority of

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Speaker 4: American people. And you know, people are looking for, I

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Speaker 4: think right now, a voice of common sense, a voice

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Speaker 4: of leadership, a voice of bringing people together and that's

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Speaker 4: what we're willing to offer if we get on the ballots. Now,

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Speaker 4: the two political parties right now, mainly the Democratic machine,

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Speaker 4: is trying to keep us off ballots in like Arizona, Maine,

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Speaker 4: and my own state of North Carolina in a very

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Speaker 4: unconstitutional way. So we've got operatives out of DC who

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Speaker 4: are maintaining the status quo, want to protect the status

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Speaker 4: quo and the power of the two political parties.

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Speaker 2: What's on constitutional that they're doing well.

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Speaker 4: It actually talks about giving access to the ballot and

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Speaker 4: most state laws require that too, that if you like

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Speaker 4: in North Carolina, we've got all the signatures required, they

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Speaker 4: have been verified, and yet the state Elections board just

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Speaker 4: happens to not they're slow rolling it and they have

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Speaker 4: to get a letter from move on dot org the

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Speaker 4: day before the vote, and next thing we know, there

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Speaker 4: was no vote. So it's been three months now and

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Speaker 4: this is inexcusable. The Secretary of Maine wrote a letter

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Speaker 4: to all the people that sign their signature saying, are

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Speaker 4: you sure you want to do this? Never has been

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Speaker 4: done before in Maine history where the Secretary of State

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Speaker 4: has written people who have signed petitions, so can you.

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Speaker 2: Get on the ballot without a candidate announced. How does

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Speaker 2: that work?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you can get on the ballot without a candidate,

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Speaker 4: and then if we do decide to run after Super Tuesday,

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Speaker 4: we'll have a convention in Dallas in April and will

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Speaker 4: nominate a president and a vice president to go on

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Speaker 4: the ballot.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, you're upsetting a lot of people, which

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Speaker 2: is I think, I mean, you're alluding to this yourself.

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Speaker 2: Largely Democrats appear to be very upset over the idea

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Speaker 2: of a third party. But you know, look, it's based

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Speaker 2: on history. They feel like they've seen this movie before.

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Speaker 2: Doug Jones talked about it on ABC this week. This

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Speaker 2: is part of the conversation on Sunday Morning Television. Listen

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Speaker 2: to what he said, Governor.

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Speaker 5: There is no way on God's green Earth that they

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Speaker 5: can get to two hundred and seventy electoral votes, which

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Speaker 5: means they will be a spoiler one way or another.

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Speaker 6: They'll be a spoiler.

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Speaker 2: So how is the no label's effort not a spoiler?

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Speaker 2: And I think that you're saying here that it would

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Speaker 2: only be a spoiler if these two individuals were in

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Speaker 2: the race.

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Speaker 4: Well, these same political pundits said there was no way

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Speaker 4: Barack Obama would the president. There was no way that

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump would be president. And now they're saying there's

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Speaker 4: no way a third party can be president. But they've

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Speaker 4: never seen. In fact, I could argue that the either

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Speaker 4: Biden or Trump might be the spoiler for US. I

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Speaker 4: haven't heard that yet, Yeah, based upon the number of

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Speaker 4: people that are dissatisfied with both those candidates. So I

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Speaker 4: just I find it ironic that all these people are

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Speaker 4: trying to protect or have the arrogance to assume that

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Speaker 4: the American people have to concur with their choices in

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Speaker 4: the primary.

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Speaker 2: Well, you're working with Joe Manchin, among others, and my goodness,

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Speaker 2: there's a full throated effort here in Washington, DC to

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Speaker 2: pull him away from the idea of running as a

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Speaker 2: unity candidate. What do you talk about with Joe Manchin

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Speaker 2: when this comes up.

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Speaker 4: He's been working with those labels for over ten years

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Speaker 4: as part of the Problem Solvers Caucus, So Joe is

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Speaker 4: not new to no labels. And John Huntsman is going

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Speaker 4: to be here, former governor of Utah, former ambassador to China.

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Speaker 4: He's un Joe Lieberman and I serve as co chairman

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Speaker 4: of this group along with Ben Chavs. So you've got

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Speaker 4: Joe Lieberman and Ben Shavs. I mean Ben Chavs a

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Speaker 4: civil rights pioneer, So it's kind of derogatory. It's kind

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Speaker 4: of demeaning that the former senator from Alabama, I believe,

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Speaker 4: would say Ben Chavis is doing this as in a

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Speaker 4: way to defeat, you know, a Democratic candidate.

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Speaker 2: Well, so, governor. What's the constituency? That's something I hear

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Speaker 2: a lot of people ask. Is it those who are

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Speaker 2: just fed up with status quo? They don't like old guys.

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Speaker 2: What's the constituency for a no labels candidate?

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Speaker 4: I think the major constituency are those people who don't

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Speaker 4: have a home in either political party, who feel like

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Speaker 4: neither political party is speaking to them, who want common

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Speaker 4: sense solutions, who want results, and the constituency is not

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Speaker 4: being listened to in either the Democratic or Republican primary. Plus,

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Speaker 4: for example, North Carolina, which is the ninth most populous state.

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Speaker 4: In my own state, thirty seven percent of the people

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Speaker 4: are registered to vote independent. Registered don't consider themselves independence.

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Speaker 4: They are independence, which is more than both the Democratic

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Speaker 4: and Republican party. So just looking those statistics, it seems

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Speaker 4: like the Democratic and Republican operatives would be going. Maybe

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Speaker 4: the people aren't listening to us.

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Speaker 2: How do you raise money without a d NC or

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Speaker 2: an RNC.

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Speaker 4: Well, we're raising money through grassroots effort. We're part of

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Speaker 4: a nonprofit at this point in time. But once the

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Speaker 4: candidates are selected, if we do do to do that,

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Speaker 4: the candidates are going to be the ones to raise

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Speaker 4: the money. And sadly, you know a law of the

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Speaker 4: monthly money is now being raised through super packs and

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Speaker 4: through candidate donations. And that's I assume the way. If

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Speaker 4: we do have a two candidates selected and we want

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Speaker 4: them on the ballots, they'll they'll follow the same rules

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Speaker 4: and procedures as both the Democrats and Republicans.

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Speaker 2: And am I hearing you right that you have not

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Speaker 2: selected a candidate yet. You don't know who that would

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Speaker 2: be if you chose to run.

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Speaker 4: No, we have not begun that process yet. We would

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Speaker 4: have a selection process, a nominating process, and then a

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Speaker 4: convention in April and Dallas, which is on the books

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Speaker 4: in Dallas, Texas.

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Speaker 2: And so that would be the point in time all

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Speaker 2: fifty states, if Donald Trump and Joe Biden are still

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Speaker 2: in place at that time that's when you pull the ripcord.

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Speaker 4: That's correct, and that's if the surveys continue to show

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Speaker 4: such large dissatisfaction with Trump and Biden being the ticket, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: being the choice, and we think America deserves better, and

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Speaker 4: that's not what we think, that's what the American people

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Speaker 4: are telling us.

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Speaker 2: I hope we can stay in touch with you as

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Speaker 2: we figured this out call anytime.

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Speaker 4: I'd be glad to. I think we have a chance

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Speaker 4: to make history.

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Speaker 2: Pat McCrory, former governor of North Carolina, National co chair

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Speaker 2: of No Labels, We thank you for the time on

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 4: Thank you very much, and.

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Speaker 2: We assemble our panel for their take. Deeply curious to

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Speaker 2: hear from Rick Davis and Jeanie Shans Ain't no Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: Politics contributors, our signature panel here on Bloomberg Radio. Genie

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Speaker 2: the Democrat here, what do you think? He says, it's

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Speaker 2: not a spoiler. He said, maybe Joe Biden is the spoiler.

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Speaker 2: What's going to happen today in New Hampshire.

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Speaker 7: Well, I think they are going to go out and

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Speaker 7: make their case. But you know, I think they are

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Speaker 7: identifying a very real problem. We do see it in

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Speaker 7: the polls people don't like on both sides, either Trump

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Speaker 7: or Biden. But the reality is, it is much easier

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Speaker 7: to talk about some theoretical unity candidate. These third party

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Speaker 7: campaigns that have done well, never won electoral votes, mind you,

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Speaker 7: but done well, have done well on the backs of

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Speaker 7: a specific candidate with you know, somebody like Ross Puro,

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Speaker 7: somebody like John Anderson, Jill Stein, Ralph Nader, people who

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Speaker 7: go out and make their case and our attractive candidates

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Speaker 7: to people. And still they have done little except disrupt

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Speaker 7: the major parties. Even nineteen percent Ross Pero gets zero

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Speaker 7: electoral votes, you know, two thousand, somebody like Joe Lieberman

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Speaker 7: knows very well that those votes were taken by Nator

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Speaker 7: in Florida. So they don't need to win a state,

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Speaker 7: they don't need to get the majority. They can be disruptors.

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Speaker 7: But the reality is, and I give Chris Christy credit

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Speaker 7: for saying this, only two people are going to win

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Speaker 7: in twenty four. That is going to be the Republican

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Speaker 7: or Democratic nominee. Anything else is disruption or putting a

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Speaker 7: very important issue on the table which is important but

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Speaker 7: not going to win you an election.

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Speaker 2: Rick Davis, you just heard Governor McCrory, and you know

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Speaker 2: Joe Lieberman very well, having worked closely together over the

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Speaker 2: years when you were working with Senator John McCain. What

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Speaker 2: is the motivation here if it's not to spoil the race?

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Speaker 8: I think absolute frustration. I mean, you got to hand

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Speaker 8: it to them. No labels started as a group trying to,

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Speaker 8: you know, pull people together the problem. Solver's Caucus arguably

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Speaker 8: is a healthy thing within the House of Representatives especially,

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Speaker 8: but you know, as a policy group, it makes total sense.

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Speaker 8: As a political initiative, it runs against the strong currents

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Speaker 8: of a historical two party system. And I'd say, you know,

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Speaker 8: there are arguments even against Joe Biden and Donald Trump,

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Speaker 8: echo what I hear in polling and seeing polling all

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Speaker 8: over the country. Sure, people are unsatisfied with these people

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Speaker 8: as choices, but it's not like they're not known entities, right,

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Speaker 8: I mean, Donald Trump was a president United States and

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Speaker 8: Joe Biden is the President United States. So you know,

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Speaker 8: in addition to running against a two party system, they're

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Speaker 8: running against two incumbent presidents to some degree. And so

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Speaker 8: I don't see how it can result in anything other

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Speaker 8: than putting a thumb on the scale frankly in this

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Speaker 8: case for Donald Trump.

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Speaker 2: Well, it does make you wonder how this is going

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Speaker 2: to work. Genie, I don't know if you follow the

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Speaker 2: logic there, but maybe I just don't understand the way

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Speaker 2: this stuff works well enough. But they're going to wait

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Speaker 2: until Super Tuesday. Essentially, how do you jump into a

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Speaker 2: presidential race that league.

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Speaker 7: It's very, very tough. I mean, it looks like their

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Speaker 7: goal is to get on the ballot without a named candidate.

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Speaker 7: And then, of course, you know, you have a lot

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Speaker 7: of frustrated Democrats saying this is not going to be

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Speaker 7: the small d democratic process they're talking about. This is

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Speaker 7: going to be a coronation. This is going to be

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Speaker 7: Joe Lieberman. Big donors who they buy the way aren't

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Speaker 7: disclosing who are going to be named a candidate at

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Speaker 7: that point. If they do decide to go ahead with this,

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Speaker 7: it is an uphill battle. To say the least, Democrats

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Speaker 7: are concerned because five point thirty eight and others, when

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Speaker 7: they have done the deep dive on this data, show

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Speaker 7: that when it is a head to head Biden versus Trump,

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Speaker 7: Biden is either tied or ahead by a point or two.

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Speaker 7: When they put in a third party candidate Trump is

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Speaker 7: ahead or tied, and that is why they are very,

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Speaker 7: very concerned about this. Rightly, so Biden team feels that

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Speaker 7: this is one of this small number of things that

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Speaker 7: can really cost them the election, and they are right

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Speaker 7: on that historically, because we've seen that in the two

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Speaker 7: campaigns and comment presidents have lost in eighty and ninety

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Speaker 7: two when third party candidates that were attractive pulled votes

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Speaker 7: from their side.

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Speaker 2: Well, we're going to be listening closely to Joe Manchin's

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Speaker 2: event a little bit later on over the course of

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Speaker 2: the day. The former governor of Utah, John Huntsman, who

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Speaker 2: I mentioned in that conversation, also part of the series

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Speaker 2: of what they're calling common Sense town halls Saint Anselm

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Speaker 2: College in New Hampshire. A lot more on this and

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Speaker 2: a busy weekend for the Republican candidates coming up with

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Speaker 2: our panel Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano.

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Speaker 6: You're listening to.

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Speaker 1: The Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the program live weekdays

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Speaker 1: at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot Com, and.

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Speaker 6: The Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 2: Big day for No Labels with the common Sense town

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Speaker 2: halls happening in New Hampshire, and it's got a lot

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Speaker 2: of us talking about the idea of a unity candidate.

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Speaker 2: Can we get to this or not? Maybe not for

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Speaker 2: a while. As we heard from the national co chair

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Speaker 2: of No Labels, Pat McCrory earlier in the broadcast, that

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Speaker 2: they're waiting till Super Tuesday find out if both Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump and Joe Biden are in the race. He tells

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Speaker 2: us here on Bloomberg sound on if that is the case,

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Speaker 2: they will run a no label candidate. If even one

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Speaker 2: of them either drop out, maybe both, whatever they're envisioning here,

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Speaker 2: then there's no no Labels. I guess they cancel their

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Speaker 2: convention and we have this conversation again in four years.

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Speaker 2: A lot of ifs there with the conventional wisdom in Washington,

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Speaker 2: certainly among Democrats, although both of our panelis seem to

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Speaker 2: agree Rick and Genie on this that yeah, it would

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Speaker 2: be a spoiler for Joe Biden specifically. Remember we talked

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Speaker 2: about it with Jim Kesler recently from Third Way. That

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Speaker 2: group is working overtime to try to keep this from happening.

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Speaker 2: Got into it with Jim Kesler and Sarah Chamberlain, Republican

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Speaker 2: strategists on a recent edition of Balance of Pound.

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Speaker 9: I can tell you Democrats are super worried about that,

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Speaker 9: and they believe that Donald Trump can win in that situation.

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Speaker 10: Well, history shows he could win. I mean, look back,

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Speaker 10: it's never happened before. It has prevented Democrats from winning,

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Speaker 10: go back to al Gore and other but it's never

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Speaker 10: prevented a Republican from it.

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Speaker 2: We reassemble the panel, Rick Davis and Genie Shanzeno. Rick,

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Speaker 2: what's your thought on the timeline here? The calendar that

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Speaker 2: they're looking at. I mean, you've done this a few times.

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Speaker 2: Could you want a candidate out of the blue starting

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Speaker 2: on Super Tuesday.

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Speaker 8: You're going to need a lot of money because you're

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Speaker 8: going to basically be introducing a brand new concept to

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Speaker 8: the American voters and potentially to people.

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Speaker 2: Who may not have all that much national name ID.

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Speaker 8: And if you believe them at what they say, they're

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Speaker 8: going to be competing for electoral votes, you know, and

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Speaker 8: that means they got to run in almost every state.

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Speaker 8: So the logistics of it are virtually insurmountable. But the

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Speaker 8: number one piece that makes a lot of that happen

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Speaker 8: is going to be money. And think about what these

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Speaker 8: presidential campaigns spend in excess of a billion dollars. Where

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Speaker 8: are they going to get it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, Genie. You said, maybe a couple

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Speaker 2: of fat cats come along with then that becomes a

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Speaker 2: liability for the candidate.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't know. If a billion dollars worth of

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Speaker 7: fat cats come along, you could get some, they could

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Speaker 7: choose a candidate, you know. I do think again that

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Speaker 7: they are identifying a real concern, and this is a

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Speaker 7: concern shared amongst the Republicans and Democrats as well. These

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Speaker 7: are not popular leading candidates at this point, but the

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Speaker 7: reality is number one, theoretical me is much more attractive

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Speaker 7: than actual me, and they don't have an actual candidate yet.

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Speaker 7: And number two, these third parties have done a good

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Speaker 7: job putting really important issues on the table, think balanced budget,

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Speaker 7: ross perrot critically important. Clinton and Gidngrich ran with that afterwards,

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Speaker 7: but beyond that they have done little except spoil or

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Speaker 7: take votes to your the portion you've played primarily in

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Speaker 7: the modern era from the Democrats, and that is why

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Speaker 7: Democrats are very, very concerned. And again you look at

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Speaker 7: these deep dives, they have reason to be concerned. This

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Speaker 7: is one of the three or four things that the

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Speaker 7: Biden team feels can cost them a reelection. So it

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Speaker 7: is a big concern.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if either of you think that it's

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Speaker 2: still unlikely that Donald Trump becomes the Republican nominee. You

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Speaker 2: can weigh in on it, but I'll tell you over

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Speaker 2: the weekend, at this evangelical event down in Florida that

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Speaker 2: we talked about a bit on Friday, the other Republican

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Speaker 2: candidates had a tough time. Now Ron DeSantis was not

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Speaker 2: there and everyone was reminded of it repeatedly, but get

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Speaker 2: a sense of what it was like to not be

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump or in this case, a man named Asa Hutchinson.

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Speaker 11: It's my I am delighted to be here today to

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Speaker 11: express my support for young people being engaged in the

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Speaker 11: political arena and fighting for the conservative cause.

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Speaker 2: They didn't stop the whole time.

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Speaker 11: Young people, you are leading the charge that's ahead.

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Speaker 2: I just finished eight.

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Speaker 11: Years as governor of Arkansas, and I was happy to

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Speaker 11: be able to and I could just keep this going.

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Speaker 2: This, by the way, was at the Turning Point Action conference.

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Speaker 2: I should have been more specific West Palm Beach, Florida.

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Speaker 2: A tough slog here. Of course, Donald Trump's headlining speech

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Speaker 2: was very well received. Rick, would you tell candidates like

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Speaker 2: Asa Hutchinson to go into that lion's den?

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Speaker 8: No, I think that was an easy decision to make.

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Speaker 2: If you if you skip it.

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Speaker 8: Look, this is the organization that has, you know, really

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Speaker 8: come to its four behind Donald Trump's efforts. They're they're

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Speaker 8: evangelical in their support for him. They were the uh,

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Speaker 8: they were the force behind Kerry Lake's campaign and Arizona

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Speaker 8: really the whole grassroots effort was a turning Point initiative.

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Speaker 8: And and they've had their series of scandals. So if

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Speaker 8: you're a legitimate presidential campaign, you really got to look

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Speaker 8: at the scheduling around that. And Katee, why in the

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Speaker 8: world would we go there?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if you caught much of this

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Speaker 2: over the weekend, Genie, this may not have been part

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Speaker 2: of your weekend plans. But Donald Trump uh definitely enjoyed

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Speaker 2: himself as I mentioned, and you got the full treatment.

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Speaker 2: Even Roger Stone spoke to a fairly pleased crowd. But

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Speaker 2: if you were not part of MAGA, and if you

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Speaker 2: were going to dare run against Donald Trump, whether your

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Speaker 2: name's Mike Pence or Asa Hutchinson, you're not welcome.

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Speaker 7: That's right. And I think the fact that Roger Stone

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Speaker 7: got a warm embrace or beyond a warm and brace

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Speaker 7: is telling you know. I do give Asa Hutchinson credit

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Speaker 7: for going there, for you said called it a lion's den,

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Speaker 7: a snake pit, whatever you want to call it.

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Speaker 6: I call it.

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Speaker 7: You did not say snake but I said that. I

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Speaker 7: will clarify that, but I do. You know, these are

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Speaker 7: very active conservative many young people who supported to Rick's point, Trump,

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Speaker 7: and that is where they are aligned. But you don't

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Speaker 7: change people's minds unless you speak to them. They get

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Speaker 7: to know you. So I do give him credit for

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Speaker 7: going there and making his case. But you can't expect

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Speaker 7: that that is going to be something that is going

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Speaker 7: to elicit a, you know, a significant turn of opinion

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Speaker 7: in that kind of format. That would take a long time.

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Speaker 7: And let's not forget Asa Hutchinson, like Chris Christy, has

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Speaker 7: been one of the most critical on the trail of

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Speaker 7: Donald Trump.

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Speaker 2: That's true. And Donald Trump sat for an interview in

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Speaker 2: which he talked about some of the other candidates over

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Speaker 2: the weekends talk with Maria Bartiromo on Fox, who asked

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Speaker 2: him about this idea that Rick Davis floated that has

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Speaker 2: become part of the conventional wisdom now that he's not

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Speaker 2: going to show up to the first Republican debate that

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Speaker 2: would be next month in Milwaukee. You're going to show up,

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Speaker 2: mister President.

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Speaker 12: Ron Desanctus as I call him, what to sanctimonious is

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Speaker 12: down to. He's in the teens now, and I'm at

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Speaker 12: fifty and sixty and sixty five, and even I saw

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Speaker 12: one today at seventy seventy and see you leading people

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Speaker 12: by fifty and sixty points, and you say, why would

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Speaker 12: you be doing a debate? It's actually not fair. Why

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Speaker 12: would you let somebody that said zero or one or

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Speaker 12: two or three? You don't be popping you with questions?

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Speaker 2: So you're still thinking he's the no show. Rick, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it sounds like a no show to me.

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Speaker 8: If he's talking himself into attending, it didn't sound like it.

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Speaker 6: So.

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Speaker 8: And I actually one of the rare moments I agree

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Speaker 8: with Donald Trump. When everyone's having trouble getting traction, Why

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Speaker 8: give them an opportunity to get traction and the little

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Speaker 8: bit of gas that he'll take by blowing it off

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Speaker 8: and not showing up.

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Speaker 2: Who's he gonna upset?

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Speaker 8: The RNC paid for and one hundred percent endorsed by

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Speaker 8: Donald Trump. I mean, these are his people. So I

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Speaker 8: think there's no downside for him other than the fact

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Speaker 8: that he will not enjoy the opportunity to take these

438
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 8: guys on directly himself. And in that match, I sort

439
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,120
Speaker 8: of give advantage Donald Trumps.

440
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,679
Speaker 2: Something he said in this interview that I was amazed

441
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 2: isn't making more news, And that was his take on Taiwan.

442
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 2: Jeanie asked about whether we would defend Taiwan if it

443
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,159
Speaker 2: were invaded by mainland China, And of course this is

444
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,679
Speaker 2: being talked about a lot right now in Washington. The

445
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 2: President's even talked about this in interviews. Listen to his take.

446
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 12: If China takes Taiwan, they will turn the world off potentially,

447
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 12: I mean potentially, but remember this, Taiwan took Smart, Brilliant,

448
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,360
Speaker 12: they took our business away. We should have stopped them.

449
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 12: We should have taxed them, we should have tariffed them.

450
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 2: He meant turned the world off because all the semiconductors

451
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 2: are there, but this is a new case that he's building. Genie,

452
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 2: that guys, Taiwan stole our business and so we should

453
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:27,680
Speaker 2: not defend them.

454
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 6: Yeah.

455
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 7: Yeah, it was unclear to me exactly where he was

456
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,640
Speaker 7: headed with this. You know, I'm not sure it's fair

457
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 7: to say they stole our business. They built a thriving

458
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 7: business themselves to their credit, and you know, I would

459
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 7: guess that that's where he is headed with this. But

460
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,640
Speaker 7: you know what he would do about it as president,

461
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 7: like what he would said he would do in Ukraine

462
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 7: in that same interview, which was baffling to me, he

463
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 7: would end this thing again in twenty four hours. Because

464
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 7: both Zelenski and Putin like him so much, it's unclear

465
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 7: to me where he's going with this or what he

466
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,400
Speaker 7: would do as president. But I think he is right

467
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 7: to say that Taiwan has built a very thriving business

468
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 7: and they are the envy of much of the world

469
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 7: at this point, and it is something that the United

470
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 7: States and China have to contend with.

471
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 2: Boy, yeah, we'll have more time for this. I want

472
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 2: to hear Rick way In and it certainly ties into

473
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 2: the interview today that you heard from Janet Yellen here

474
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 2: on Bloomberg talking about China. Why the tariffs are still

475
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 2: in place. That goes back to the Trump administration, and

476
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 2: we're going to go there coming up next.

477
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us

478
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

479
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on

480
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

481
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 2: A lot of questions about what makes the difference between

482
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:49,360
Speaker 2: this administration and the Trump administration when it comes to China.

483
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 2: Despite a lot of two steps forward, one step back,

484
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 2: policy hasn't actually changed that much. Despite some of the

485
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,199
Speaker 2: talk we've heard. There are additional restrictions on technology, but

486
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 2: the tariffs remain in place. Thanks for joining us. I'm

487
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 2: Joe Matthew in Washington, the fastest show in Politics with

488
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 2: our signature panel, Rick Davis and Genie Shanzano and China

489
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 2: always looming over the conversation here inside the Beltway. My

490
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 2: colleague and Marie Hordurn spoke with Janet Yellen, the Treasury Secretary,

491
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 2: a little bit earlier today about those tariffs on China.

492
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 13: We're undergoing a four year required review with tariffs, and

493
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 13: of course China also retaliated putting tariffs in place on us.

494
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 13: We have to see what comes out of the four

495
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 13: year review, but I would emphasize that really the underlying

496
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 13: concerns we have have not yet been addressed, and we

497
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 13: need to work on that going forward.

498
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 2: Concerns not been addressed. Rick Davis, I wonder your thoughts

499
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 2: on this administration's view of China as it's compared to

500
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 2: the Trump administration. It's a slightly different posture, but things

501
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 2: like the terriffs hang around in this White House. Doesn't

502
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 2: think it's seeing any progress.

503
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 8: Much less focus in Trump administration on human rights issues.

504
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,719
Speaker 8: That Biden minstration made a big deal out of that,

505
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 8: which is good, and both of them have been I

506
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 8: think very aggressive when it comes to sort of a

507
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 8: military build up on our part in the Indo Pacific.

508
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 8: So that's very similar, and i'd say financially it's been

509
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 8: very similar. I mean, Trump identified unfair trade practices that

510
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 8: China was using and slapped them with tariffs, and basically

511
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 8: from what we just heard of Janet Yellen in the

512
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 8: interview on Bloomberg, she doesn't seem totally satisfied that those

513
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 8: unfair practices have changed, and in this four year review,

514
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 8: it'll be interesting to see if they continue, but certainly

515
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 8: they continued for the last two and a half years.

516
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 2: How do you get out of the blocks in a

517
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 2: relationship like this than genie or is de coupling really

518
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:00,479
Speaker 2: the whole point of this?

519
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,719
Speaker 7: You know, I would just add another element to this.

520
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 7: Even if they saw a change, it is politically unpalatable

521
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,239
Speaker 7: at this point for the Biden administration to look like

522
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 7: they are easing up on China. That would be a

523
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 7: death blow in this election for the Biden administration. So

524
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 7: you know, Janet Yellen, when she went over and had

525
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 7: these discussions, there was some hope amongst Chinese, the Chinese

526
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 7: leadership that there might be movement on the tariffs. But

527
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 7: look at what happened. You had hardliners like Josh Hawley

528
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 7: tweeting about the fact that she was groveling to China

529
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 7: and it was a historic mistake. You had Donald Trump

530
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 7: saying if China fails to comply with removing its spy

531
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 7: capability from Cuba, He's going to impose new tariffs. There

532
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 7: is simply no political appetite in the United States at

533
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 7: this point to ease up on tariffs. So I would

534
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 7: say if it happens, it won't happen until and unless

535
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 7: the Biden is re elected in twenty four, and even

536
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 7: then it's going to be an uphill battle given how

537
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 7: much much anti Chinese sentiment there is in the United

538
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 7: States at this point, and in the US in particular

539
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 7: amongst the electorate as they look at twenty twenty four.

540
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 2: Joe Biden is planning to meet with presidentcy at some

541
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 2: point here Rick, at least, that's that's what we're told

542
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 2: the purpose of all these meetings. At some points, you know,

543
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 2: Romanda will go, everybody gets together, then at lasts that

544
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 2: two presidents will speak again for the first time in

545
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 2: quite a while. Well, will he be accused of being

546
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 2: soft on China when that happens in the throes of

547
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 2: a campaign.

548
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 8: Now, it depends on what happens. Simply meeting doesn't really

549
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 8: create an outcome. And from what we can tell, this

550
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 8: administration is looking at controls on outbound investment, which could

551
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 8: be very difficult for China to stomach. And so, you know,

552
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 8: policy matters in this case. And if he is aggressive

553
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 8: and says, you know, in order to get these tariffs

554
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 8: off and in order to have a productive relationship, We're

555
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 8: going to have to reset how we believe China should operate,

556
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 8: and that would include both economic, human right in military.

557
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 8: Then then he's got a good chance of maybe not

558
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 8: necessarily getting a deal from China, but preserving his political

559
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 8: status in the process.

560
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 2: And you know, I suppose, well, I don't know if

561
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 2: there's talk about Taiwan, but I'll have to reinforce that

562
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 2: the one China policy still stands. You have to say

563
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 2: that every time you talk to them, unless that president

564
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 2: becomes Donald Trump. Although I don't know, listen to Donald

565
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 2: Trump doesn't seem too worried about a Taiwan invasion. And

566
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 2: I wanted to have you weigh in on this. Rick

567
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 2: is from his interview with Maria Bartiromo at Fix.

568
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 12: If China takes Taiwan, they will turn the world off potentially,

569
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 12: I mean potentially, But remember this, Taiwan took Smart, Brilliant,

570
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 12: they took our business away. We should have stopped them,

571
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 12: we should have text them, we should have tariffed them.

572
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 2: Okay. So I don't know how you interpret that answer, Rick,

573
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 2: but it's going to turn out it sounds to me

574
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 2: like Joe Biden's the China hawk here in this campaign.

575
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 8: Well, you can't rely on Donald Trump to be a

576
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 8: hawk consistently. It depends on what day of the week

577
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 8: it is and what political scores he wants. But sure,

578
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 8: you know, what he's saying is that RCA gave their

579
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 8: semi conductor rights back in nineteen seventies to Taiwan and

580
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 8: they made a whole industry out of it. And he's

581
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 8: right that you have to fear what the impact to

582
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 8: that technology is going to be accessibility if China tries invade.

583
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 8: But you try to wrap that up and he almost

584
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 8: makes it sound like it's Taiwan's fault if they get invaded.

585
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 8: So to be honest, you know, it's kind of hard

586
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 8: to take a lot of what Donald Trump says about

587
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 8: issues related to China seriously. Some give him credit for

588
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 8: changing the dynamic. It was pretty apologetic on the US

589
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 8: part during the Obama administration. He got more muscular with it.

590
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 8: But the hope was that Biden would add a layer

591
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 8: of strategy to that, and I think most China watchers

592
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 8: are still looking for what that strategy is.

593
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 2: I thought this was the one bipartisan thing that we

594
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 2: could find other than maybe Hayten on social media, Genie

595
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 2: that there was a bipartisan movement here in the US

596
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 2: to contain, if not decouple from China, and then this

597
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 2: former Republican president shows up. What do you make of it?

598
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's perplexing, Like so much about Donald Trump and

599
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 7: listening to that clip, you almost wonder did he forget

600
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 7: He was president for four years, so what has happened?

601
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 7: He bears some responsibility for if any other president does that. Said,

602
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 7: I do think there is widespread agreement in the United States,

603
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 7: as you mentioned, bipartisan support. You know, you hear policy

604
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 7: analysts say all the time. Even though it would help companies,

605
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 7: it would help all of us as consumers to cut

606
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 7: some of those tariffs and Section three oh one, it

607
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 7: is going to be very very hard to get there

608
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 7: in this political environment, and you know, for the Biden

609
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 7: administration at this point in particular, a very hard movement

610
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 7: to move forward on. So they will probably hold the

611
00:31:58,960 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 7: line the way it is.

612
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 2: Jennie Schanzano and Rick Davis our signature panel on the

613
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 2: Monday edition of Sound On you think you know how

614
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 2: this presidential race is going to turn out? Roger Stone

615
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 2: will tell you otherwise. That's coming up. Joe Matthew in Washington.

616
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg.

617
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the

618
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

619
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: tune in alf, Bloomberg dot Com.

620
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 6: And the Bloomberg Business App.

621
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

622
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

623
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 2: We've been talking for mostly out about the race for

624
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 2: President twenty twenty four, from No Labels a little while

625
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 2: ago to the Republican Candidate's forum in Florida over the

626
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 2: weekend at Joe Biden's chances for reelection, But if you

627
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 2: ask Roger Stone, we're talking about a lot of the

628
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 2: wrong people, at least on the Democratic side, as he

629
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 2: describes at the Turning Point Action conference over the weekend

630
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: in Florida.

631
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 5: Now, as a veter of many years in American politics,

632
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 5: I'm going to tell you something somewhat shocking. Joe Biden

633
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 5: will not be the nominee of the Democratic Party in

634
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 5: twenty twenty four. Kamala Harris will briefly become president. But

635
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 5: the only way in their party they can replace a

636
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 5: woman of color is with another woman of color, And yes,

637
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 5: you heard it here. First the Democratic nominee for president

638
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 5: will be Michelle Obama.

639
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 2: That's not the first time I heard it.

640
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 5: Actually, they have already rigged their primaries.

641
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 2: So that I didn't know Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano

642
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 2: with us in our final moment here, Rick, did did

643
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: you see that coming?

644
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 8: Well, you can never see Roger Stone coming, So I

645
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 8: think everybody gets a pass on whether they could have

646
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 8: predicted this. But you know, look, when you're giving a

647
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 8: speech in front of a bunch of conspiracy theories, why

648
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 8: not you know, add it on and nobody can do

649
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 8: it like Roger can.

650
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 2: Gus on fire? Genie? Is that the secret plan would?

651
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 2: What did you know about this?

652
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 7: Well, what we knew about it. Roger Stone should gig

653
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 7: credit to Monica Crawley, who said it in twenty twenty two.

654
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 7: Give credit to another conservative woman who set it in

655
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 7: twenty twenty two. He doesn't want to do that. I'll

656
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 7: believe it when he adds Michelle Obama to his tattoo

657
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,240
Speaker 7: of Richard Nixon on its back. Maybe then I'll believe

658
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 7: this is where we're headed.

659
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 2: Okay, I guess that's a fair deal. Could Michelle Obama

660
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,479
Speaker 2: win you know.

661
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 7: What, She could win a Democratic primary for sure, but

662
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 7: she's not going to run against Joe Biden.

663
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 12: Who would.

664
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 2: She loves her life. I just wonder if all the talk,

665
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 2: you know, she's really you know, a national candidate. Yeah,

666
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 2: we won't go any further on Roger Stone's tattoos. Genie

667
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 2: Shanzano and Rick Davis, thank you, as always our signature panel.

668
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the

669
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

670
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 1: tune in alf, Bloomberg dot Com.

671
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 6: And the Bloomberg Business App.

672
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

673
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

674
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 2: We've got a lot of stuff to discuss here, and

675
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 2: it really starts at the Treasury Department. I guess by

676
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 2: way of India, where Anne Marie interviewed Janet Yellen earlier today,

677
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 2: remotely of course, from Washington, but a lot of questions

678
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 2: about policies. They covered a lot of ground were questions

679
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 2: about policies that originated in the Trump administration that live

680
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 2: on in the Biden administration.

681
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 14: Yeah, like the imposition of tariffs five years ago. I

682
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,399
Speaker 14: believe it was five years to the day from when

683
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 14: Treasury sets that very Yellen landed in Beijing, and we

684
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 14: know that China brought this issue up on her trip there.

685
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 14: But what the Treasury Secretary told Anne Marie is basically

686
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 14: that China hasn't done enough to indicate that the tariffs

687
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 14: should be removed in terms of some of these unfair

688
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 14: trade practices. And of course it's also a very difficult

689
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 14: position that the Treasury Secretary is in because there's a

690
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 14: lot of China Hawks here in Washington. It's an election

691
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 14: year for the sitting president, and you can't be seen

692
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 14: going easier on China.

693
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 2: Perhaps, Yeah, not a lot of progress or any at all.

694
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 2: Listen to how she put it.

695
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 13: We put tariffs in place on China because we had

696
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 13: underlying concerns about unfair trade practices, particularly those affecting intellectual

697
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 13: property and technology transfer, and those concerns really have not

698
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 13: been addressed.

699
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 2: It's interesting because we spent so much time talking about

700
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 2: intellectual property theft IP theft over the years that it's

701
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 2: been much more recently focused on high tech chips, that

702
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 2: could be used in weaponry, putting guardrails on AI. But

703
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 2: she kind of brings us back to the foundation of

704
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 2: the argument that we've been having with Beijing for years.

705
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 14: Yeah, she does. And she was also alluding to more

706
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 14: things that could be to come, like this executive order

707
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 14: on outbound investment that has been talked about for some time,

708
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 14: and according to Bloomberg's reporting, could be actually formally unveiled

709
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 14: by the end of this month. But in theory, that's

710
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 14: just another tit to Beijing's tat Yeah, right, back and forth.

711
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 2: She did not like that idea. Yes, that's when you know,

712
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 2: maybe you're getting warm. I'm guessing Mick has some thoughts

713
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 2: on this. It's Monday, and we talked to Mick Malvany

714
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 2: at this time every week, the former director of OMB

715
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 2: and the former US Special Envoy for Northern Ireland, former congressmen,

716
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 2: former acting White House Chief of Staff. There are more

717
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,439
Speaker 2: formers there. I literally could keep on going. Nick, Welcome back.

718
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 2: It's good to have you here. When you left the

719
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 2: Trump White House, did you ever imagine these tariffs lasting

720
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 2: this far into the Biden administration.

721
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 15: Yeah, we all did. It was really interesting to watch

722
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 15: because you say, what you want about Donald Trump, and

723
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 15: there's no shortage of things to say about Donald Trump.

724
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 15: He changed the Republican Party's position on trade and specifically

725
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 15: on trade with China, and convinced a lot of folks

726
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 15: myself included, that this harder line on trade with China

727
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 15: was the right way to go. And I think what

728
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 15: you saw in the twenty twenty elections was essentially antipathy

729
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 15: towards China, being the only real bipartisan thing in Washington,

730
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 15: d C. In fact, in the election, you sort of

731
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 15: got the impression both parties are trying to get further

732
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 15: to the right is not the right word, but harsher

733
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,919
Speaker 15: on China than the other parties. So no, it doesn't

734
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 15: surprise you that they've stayed there, and I expect them

735
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 15: to continue to remain because I haven't seen the politics

736
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 15: that it change in DC yet.

737
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 14: Yeah, maybe it's more hawkish Joe would be a way

738
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,439
Speaker 14: to describe that in terms of the attitude towards China,

739
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 14: But make it speaks to the difficulty. This administration also

740
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 14: is trying to reopen lines of communication and improve the relationship,

741
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:42,240
Speaker 14: which is still very tense. How can you do both realistically?

742
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 14: Can China be the US's friend.

743
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 15: You know, listen, or cooperative partner, Yeah, more cooperateive Partner's real.

744
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 15: That's a very politically correct way of the question.

745
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 6: You know.

746
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 15: Look, I'm I'm old, right, I'm older than you folks are.

747
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 15: And I remember the last time we dealt with an

748
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 15: authoritarian communist part communist country, and we didn't, you know,

749
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 15: sell them phones and automobiles and so forth.

750
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 6: We just beat them.

751
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 15: I don't know if that's the formula. I don't think

752
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 15: that it is with China. You can't do the same

753
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 15: things in China that you's in the Soviet Union. But

754
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 15: I've always wondered why our attitude is so different towards China.

755
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 15: I can't tell you the number of fortune five hundred

756
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,839
Speaker 15: CEOs who would march into the Oval Office every single

757
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 15: week and begged the President to go lighter on China

758
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 15: because it was good for business. I can't imagine that

759
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 15: happening with the Soviet Union in nineteen sixties, in nineteen seventies.

760
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 15: So can we be do we have to be enemies?

761
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 7: No?

762
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:45,919
Speaker 15: Are they going to be the same as the UK

763
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 15: and Germany and Korea and Japan. I just don't see

764
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 15: it as long as there's still a communist dictatorship.

765
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 6: All right.

766
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 2: So I'm going to turn this around on you for

767
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 2: a second, and maybe you'll tell me that I'm coming

768
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 2: from the wrong place on this, but I was. I

769
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 2: was compelled to to play back the answer that Donald

770
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 2: Trump gave Fox News about a possible mainland China invasion

771
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 2: of Taiwan. He started talking about the chip industry and

772
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 2: how China could could shut off. It was part of

773
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 2: the framing of the question by Maria Barbromo, but he said, yeah,

774
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 2: they invade Taiwan, they could essentially turn off the world

775
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 2: because of that extreme concentration of chips, and it's something

776
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 2: that we talk about a lot here at Bloomberg. But

777
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 2: listen to what else you say.

778
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 12: If China takes Taiwan, they will turn the world off potentially,

779
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 12: I mean potentially. But remember this, Taiwan took Smart, Brilliant,

780
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,919
Speaker 12: they took our business away. We should have stopped them,

781
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 12: We should have text them, we should have tariffed them.

782
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 2: Okay, now where's he going with that? Mick's it's kind

783
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 2: of a yeah, but they took our business away, so

784
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 2: let them get invaded. And I'm asking you that in

785
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,399
Speaker 2: a Washington where it's it's like the one bipartisan thing

786
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 2: we can find to hate on China. Is that going

787
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 2: to be a new line of philosophy from Donald Trump?

788
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 15: Maybe I'm just maybe I'm just used to hearing his

789
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 15: voice more than you are. I didn't make the leap too.

790
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 15: You know, they took our stuff, so therefore it's okay

791
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 15: for China to invade them.

792
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 2: I didn't make that lead or that we wouldn't go

793
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:17,280
Speaker 2: to their defense.

794
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 15: Exactly what you just heard is the way Donald Trump

795
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 15: talks about everybody, every country that we have, you know,

796
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 15: sort of shipped jobs to job. Donald Trump doesn't like globalization.

797
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 15: That's not his thing, right, he is that that's what

798
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 15: America First is really America first. He never liked the

799
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 15: fact that we were shipping jobs overseas or that we,

800
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 15: you know, had favorable trade policies with with with folks overseas.

801
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 15: So that's not specific to Taiwan.

802
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 2: But he would not defend Taiwan if invaded. That seems

803
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:45,479
Speaker 2: pretty clear, right.

804
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

805
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 15: I think I've never heard him answers ask that question

806
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 15: straight out. I never heard answered that question straight out.

807
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 15: And my guess is he's he's cagy enough not to

808
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 15: answer the question, and he listen. He knows on negotiations.

809
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 15: He got asked this the other day about Russia. You know,

810
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 15: who do you think should win the war in Ukraine?

811
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 15: Russian goes? You know, if I answer that question, makes

812
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 15: it really hard to negotiate with either side that is

813
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,879
Speaker 15: unhappy with my answer. And to a certain ste He's right,

814
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 15: there's a certain human nature there. You do wish at

815
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 15: some point that you know, he'd be a little bit

816
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 15: more definitive and a support for our friends and a

817
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 15: little bit more definitive in his opposition to our competitors.

818
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 15: But that's Donald Trump and Donald Trump, I guess well, And.

819
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 14: As we talk about his attitude towards China and the

820
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 14: hardening of attitudes towards China really across the board, regardless

821
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 14: of party, who do you think China would rather have

822
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 14: in the White House again, come to the beginning of

823
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:35,439
Speaker 14: twenty twenty five.

824
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 15: No, that's a good question, you know, I you know,

825
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 15: I don't know, boy, I tell you that's I want

826
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 15: to Part of me wants to say Trump for one reason,

827
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 15: because he's a negotiator and he doesn't have a lot

828
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 15: of emotion when it comes to this kind of stuff.

829
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 15: He just wants to cut a deal. But part of

830
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 15: me says he wants to be Biden because they perceived

831
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 15: him as being weaker than Trump. So I don't know

832
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 15: if it's a good answered that question. I think the

833
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 15: better question is, you know, would they rather have America

834
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 15: now or America thirty years ago? And they'd rather have America

835
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 15: thirty years ago. I don't think they like the trends.

836
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 15: They think they perceive that we've sort of caught on

837
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 15: to what they're trying to do. We don't like it

838
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 15: any So I don't know if I've got any friends

839
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,280
Speaker 15: in Washington, Kayley.

840
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 2: Oh, come on, we need to ask you about speaking

841
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 2: of no friends, this idea of a no Labels candidacy.

842
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 2: Having been around the world of campaigning and knowing Donald

843
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 2: Trump to the extent that you do in his supporters here,

844
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 2: there's a big event happening in New Hampshire where No

845
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,720
Speaker 2: Labels is featuring a series of town halls with Joe

846
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 2: Manchin and John Huntsman. Mansion, of course keeps coming up

847
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 2: as a potential unity candidate along with Larry Hogan. I

848
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 2: talked earlier with the national co chair of No Labels.

849
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: Pat McCrory, the former I bet you know him, former

850
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 2: governor of North Carolina, who took a bit of offense

851
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,280
Speaker 2: to this idea of being framed as a spoiler.

852
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 6: Mick.

853
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 4: Here's what he said, in case after Super Tuesday of

854
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 4: next year, Trump and Biden are the two candidates that

855
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 4: looked like will win, then will most likely run a

856
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 4: third ticket presidential ticket, most likely bipartisan ticket president and

857
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 4: vice president, but only if Biden and Trump are the

858
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 4: two final nominees.

859
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 2: Okay, so he's looking at, you know, the polling data

860
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 2: he's looking at makes suse these these two guys are

861
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 2: They're seen as being too old. Each of their respective

862
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 2: parties wish they had someone else. Can you really do

863
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:29,240
Speaker 2: what he said? Though, wait till Super Tuesday to figure

864
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 2: that out and successfully run a candidate on a national

865
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:32,399
Speaker 2: level that late.

866
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 15: Yeah, actually you can, whether or not you shouldn't. I

867
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 15: was another question. I know that the labels folks. I

868
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 15: know Pat, that was my mayor before he was the

869
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 15: governors and the mayor most of my adult life, as

870
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 15: a matter of factur Charlotte, North Carolina. So I'm familiar

871
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,359
Speaker 15: with what they're doing, And the answer to your question

872
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 15: is yes, they can wait because they're actually already working

873
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 15: now to get the ballot access, which is the key part.

874
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 15: They don't have a candidate yet, but you don't have

875
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 15: to have a candidate to get on the ballot, and

876
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 15: that's the stuff that takes a long time and a

877
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 15: lot of money, and they are doing the real work

878
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:05,280
Speaker 15: to be ready for that. They're also a data driven organization.

879
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,439
Speaker 15: They've seen the same pulling data you've just mentioned. In fact,

880
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 15: they've seen a lot more pulling data. They've shared some

881
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 15: of it with me about folks willingness to go a

882
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,359
Speaker 15: third way if it is Trump versus Biden. Now, all

883
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 15: of that being said, there is a real strong argument

884
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 15: that what they would do would help Joe Biden. That

885
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:22,839
Speaker 15: I know they don't like it when I say that,

886
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 15: but a third party tends to be tends to be

887
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 15: a protest vote, or at least to have some component

888
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 15: of a protest vote, which tends to sort of hurt

889
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 15: the party in power, which in this case would be

890
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 15: Joe Biden. I think if they go with I think

891
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 15: if they go with Joe Manchin, they hurt Biden. If

892
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 15: they go with Larry Hogan, they might hurt Trump a

893
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 15: little bit, I don't think, and I've told them this,

894
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 15: so I'm not breaking a new ground here that unless

895
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 15: they go with somebody outside of politics, an Oprah Winfree,

896
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 15: a Dwayne the Rock Johnson, somebody like that, I don't

897
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 15: think they have a chance of winning, but they certainly

898
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:55,280
Speaker 15: have a chance of influencing the outcome.

899
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,840
Speaker 14: Yeah, I just wonder what share, realistically of the vote

900
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 14: you think any third party candidate would be able to grab.

901
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:05,840
Speaker 15: Well, keep in mind, you only have it. It's winner

902
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 15: take all, So I mean, you only got to get

903
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 15: thirty three percent, right, or thirty two if you've got

904
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 15: fourth and fifth parties in their Colonel West is Coronel

905
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 15: West is in they're pulling a couple of points. You

906
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 15: only need a third and then you win all that

907
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 15: states in a state and you get a third in

908
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 15: the state, you and all that state's electoral votes, so

909
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 15: you don't have to have fifty percent.

910
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 2: You've talked to the Rock about this, That's not the

911
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 2: first time you brought it up.

912
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 15: It's not And I've not talked to him directly. I've

913
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 15: talked to a dozen people that know him, and he

914
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 15: is a very politically active and astute guy. He's spoken

915
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 15: at I believe the Republican National Convention at least once,

916
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 15: maybe twice, And I think he just thinks this is

917
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 15: not his time. And I keep telling people who anybody

918
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 15: who thinks at ran for president, it's either your time

919
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 15: or it's not, and it might not always be your time.

920
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 6: So if you get a chance, you.

921
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 15: Should take it when you can.

922
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 14: I'm literally just sitting here googling Dwayne Johnson.

923
00:46:56,040 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 2: Presidential Oprah Winfrey, though Roger Stone said for the weekend

924
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 2: that it would be Michelle Obama.

925
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 6: What do you no?

926
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 15: No, I just had I just had dinner last week

927
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 15: with a bunch of my Democrat friends. I do not

928
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 15: pretend to know the Obama's. I met them once or twice.

929
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 15: I don't know them, but I do know a lot

930
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 15: of Democrats in that town who know them very well.

931
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 15: And without exception, they say there's no chance. They said

932
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 15: that they have absolutely no interesting went back in a

933
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,760
Speaker 15: public service that that is not going to happen.

934
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 2: Well, we're not curious about reality. We just want to

935
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 2: know if you think you could get I can't imagine

936
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 2: Oprah Winfrey.

937
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:28,760
Speaker 15: Whatever Taylor Swift then yet.

938
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:34,800
Speaker 2: Well, the rock Swift ticket would be heavy duty. Spending

939
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 2: time with Nick Malvaney here on Bloomberg Sound on you

940
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:41,359
Speaker 2: see this New York Times story from Jonathan Swan earlier today,

941
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 2: Trump and allies forging plans to increase presidential power in

942
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. He was asked also in that Bartiromo

943
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 2: interview about draining the swamp. And this does seem to

944
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,359
Speaker 2: be kind of what they have sites set on Mick

945
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:58,359
Speaker 2: by actually concentrating the power of the administration to have

946
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 2: more sway over government asans over the bureaucracy. Could Donald

947
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 2: Trump make this happen?

948
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,399
Speaker 15: I hope so. I hope he does. For every president's sake.

949
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 15: You're going to elect the chief executive officer of a country,

950
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 15: you should give them the right to hire, hire, and

951
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,280
Speaker 15: fire people in the executive branch. And the president doesn't

952
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 15: have that right now. I bet, I bet the Republican

953
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 15: I bet the permanent civil service that works in Washington,

954
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 15: d C. Votes ninety five percent Democrats. Now, ordinarily with

955
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 15: good bureaucrats, with good civil servants, they don't take their

956
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,359
Speaker 15: politics to the office. But it doesn't take very many

957
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 15: of them to do that to really have an impact.

958
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 15: I can't tell you the number of people who worked

959
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 15: for me at the CFPB who are dedicated every single

960
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,319
Speaker 15: day to making sure I couldn't do what was on

961
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 15: my agenda. They were actively working against me. That's not right.

962
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:47,800
Speaker 15: And if you want to go, if the American people

963
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 15: elect a Republican president, they deserve to have it a

964
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,720
Speaker 15: Republican executive branch. If they elect a Democrat, they deserve

965
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 15: to have a Democrat executive branch. But I fully support

966
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,800
Speaker 15: this effort to reinvigorate the resident. See what comes to

967
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 15: run the executively. Now, the swamp thing is right, And

968
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 15: the thing that I could never convince Trump on was

969
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 15: that money was the water in the swamp and he

970
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,280
Speaker 15: was never willing to cut spend into drain the swamp.

971
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 2: Ooh, money is the water and the swamp. Way to

972
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 2: go out with the line, Nick mulvaney, thank you. Just

973
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 2: wait for that fight with Congress Kayley. Now we have

974
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 2: Kaylee Lines and Joe Matthew in Washington. This is Bloomberg.

975
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,359
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Sound on podcast. Make sure

976
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 2: to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify and

977
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:32,839
Speaker 2: anywhere else you get your podcasts, and you can find

978
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at one pm

979
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 2: Eastern time at bloomberg dot com.