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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media, and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot com. Let's get to the Pentagon so that you

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Speaker 3: and I can go off on this one. This has

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Speaker 3: been driving me Gras and Ryan, you and I both

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Speaker 3: have experience.

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Speaker 4: That's going to be joined by an actual former Pentagon course.

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Speaker 3: Yes, thank you, thank you, thank you for Correspondent, one

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Speaker 3: of my proudest moments, my first actual reporting job.

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Speaker 1: So here's what's currently happening.

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Speaker 3: Pete Hagsat and his personal lawyer who he has hired

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Speaker 3: now at the.

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Speaker 5: Pentagon, who is sometimes suing the pentag who.

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Speaker 1: Is sometimes suing the Pentagon people understand that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Petexas's personal lawyer is suing the Pentagon, but we're

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Speaker 4: also working at at the Pentagon.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so that guy, the guy who defended.

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Speaker 1: Him in rape accusations and other whatever.

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Speaker 3: Who knows what happened that guy and PEX that have

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Speaker 3: concocted new press requirements at the Pentagon where any correspondent

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Speaker 3: who works at the Pentagon has to be forced to

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Speaker 3: sign a twenty one page document. That twenty one page documents.

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Speaker 3: Put this up here on the screen requires a couple

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Speaker 3: of things. It's more complicated, but this is distilled from

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Speaker 3: the Pentagon. Quote Number one, the press no longer roams free.

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Speaker 3: Number three or number two, the press must wear a

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Speaker 3: visible badge. Number three credentialed press no longer are permitted

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Speaker 3: to slit criminal acts. Let's go through these claims one

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Speaker 3: by one, because this makes sense if you're an idiot

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Speaker 3: and you've never been inside.

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Speaker 5: Of the Pentagon.

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Speaker 1: All right.

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Speaker 3: Number one, as I as I literally used to cover

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Speaker 3: the Pentagon, you do not roam free in the Pentagon, Okay,

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Speaker 3: believe it is one of the most secure buildings in

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Speaker 3: the world. I used to cover the White House. The

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Speaker 3: White House is ten times less secure. I could quite

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Speaker 3: literally walk into the high like big parts of the

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Speaker 3: West Wing as a reporter without ever being a costage

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Speaker 3: ask open the door?

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Speaker 1: Is that literally open the door.

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Speaker 3: I could walk right up into the upper press area

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Speaker 3: of the West Wing and be twenty feet away from

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Speaker 3: the Oval office without being asked or looked at a scan.

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Speaker 3: So we can buy secret service. Yeah, and so that's

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Speaker 3: the first one. Roam free by room free. What he

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Speaker 3: means is that you enter the building, you go through

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Speaker 3: again more security at the Pentagon than you do to

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Speaker 3: even enter the White House. You walk past a food court,

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Speaker 3: a CBS. It's like a mini building down here. It's

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Speaker 3: like a city. There's like a T mobile store, there's

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Speaker 3: a huge food court. They have like a bunch of

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Speaker 3: gift shops and stuff because people are spend so much

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Speaker 3: time there. There's all this stuff to do, you know,

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Speaker 3: for all the staff. And then you walk down a

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Speaker 3: hallway and you go to the press area. Every single

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Speaker 3: door is locked and is key controlled. You cannot go

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Speaker 3: into any classified area.

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Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time. I never once was

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Speaker 1: able to go into a classified area.

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Speaker 3: The theory that he said is like, oh, well, some

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Speaker 3: general could be walking down the hallway and get accosted

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Speaker 3: by a drift.

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Speaker 1: Didn't see it happen once? Not once? Once? Did I

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Speaker 1: see it happen? General can just keep walking? Also, the

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Speaker 1: general can keep on. Nobody asked them to answer.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Number two, a press must wear visible badge. Okay,

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Speaker 3: can we put D five up here on the screen?

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Speaker 3: I dug up this old photo of mine of my

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Speaker 3: old badge. Okay, there it is that badge. Yes, I

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Speaker 3: know forgive my forgive the dress shirt. It was before I.

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Speaker 1: Knew some of the rules. I think, I think it works. Forget,

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Speaker 1: forgive me whatever.

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Speaker 3: That's my old badge, which I had to wear around

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Speaker 3: my neck with one of my little lanyards everywhere that

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Speaker 3: I went.

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Speaker 1: Everywhere that I went. You can see very clearly the

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Speaker 1: badge in front of you, the Pentagon Press branded badge. Everybody,

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Speaker 1: by the way, knew who the Press was.

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Speaker 5: Because CCP star there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you had a little star in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the Pentagon thing. But here's the point, we already had

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Speaker 1: to wear about. That is a badge from ninety years ago.

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Speaker 3: Because you could see it expired in August of twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 3: so I must have gotten it sometime in August of

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Speaker 3: twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 1: So that's what the badge looked like whenever we were

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Speaker 1: rolling around with the Pentagon.

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Speaker 3: Keep in mind, this is under Barack Obama, and eventually

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Speaker 3: I use that badge under the new president Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: All right, So that was the Pentagon policy that was

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Speaker 3: in place underneath. Now, the third thing that he claims,

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Speaker 3: and this is where you and I can really go off,

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Speaker 3: is quote, credential press are no longer permitted to solicit

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Speaker 3: criminal acts. What he means by that is that by

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Speaker 3: signing this document you have to commit you will not

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Speaker 3: solicit or publish classified information.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, they go even further.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't just apply to classified information, because he's making

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Speaker 3: a scene that does.

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Speaker 1: It also applies to unclassified information.

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Speaker 3: So effectively, what Pete hegg Seth is saying is you

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Speaker 3: cannot enter and cover this building if you do not

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Speaker 3: print exactly what we tell you to do. That is

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Speaker 3: literally what he is saying. Now let's explain, because actually

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Speaker 3: got attacked for this. I said soliciting encouraging people to

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Speaker 3: leak as part of the job. People took that as

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Speaker 3: encouraging people to leak classified information.

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Speaker 1: First of all, yes, that is part of the job.

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Speaker 1: And if you have it, send it over. We'd love

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Speaker 1: to see it. You like see rehearsh or do yeah?

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Speaker 1: Do you like real information or not?

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Speaker 3: But second, encouraging people to leak also falls in the

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Speaker 3: category of the pentagon makes an announcement. You and I

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Speaker 3: hit up people, or sometimes they hit us up and

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Speaker 3: I go, what's really going on here? They'll go, yeah, man,

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Speaker 3: it's bullshit. You know this, this is this, and you go, oh, okay,

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Speaker 3: can I cite that on background?

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Speaker 1: That is not classified at all.

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Speaker 3: Usually it's about clarification, some background information.

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Speaker 1: Some behind the scenes.

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Speaker 3: He doesn't even want that to be reported because that

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Speaker 3: would report on the chaos that's in the building for

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Speaker 3: mister Hagsath. And what galls me about this are the lies.

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Speaker 3: The lie that the press just roams free all over

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Speaker 3: the building. Bullshit literally doesn't happen. I'm telling you it

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Speaker 3: doesn't happen. So used to cover it. Number Two, we

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Speaker 3: didn't wear a badge.

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Speaker 1: I just showed it to you.

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Speaker 3: Had to wear it around my neck every place that

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Speaker 3: we went, couldn't even enter the building without it.

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Speaker 1: Literally.

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Speaker 3: Number three solicit information what he would eat and I

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Speaker 3: did this all the time. So here's I know, I'm

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Speaker 3: in the weeds, and I apologize, But the lack of

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Speaker 3: transparency around this is what causes people to take this

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Speaker 3: type of bullshit seriously. So what will happen is, let's

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Speaker 3: take this venezuela thing. In the old days, when I

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Speaker 3: would cover it, especially Isis, they would call us in

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Speaker 3: and they would say, we just hit a boat, you know,

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Speaker 3: or we just hit an oil refinery by Isis. We'd

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Speaker 3: say okay, and they provide an on the record statement,

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Speaker 3: which is the official version. Then they would go on

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Speaker 3: background where we could not cite them directly, and we

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Speaker 3: would say, okay, so what happened here and they're like, well,

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Speaker 3: here's how we got the information, and we got this

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Speaker 3: and that, and then we would ask follow up questions.

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Speaker 3: And then sometimes what you do is, if you're a

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Speaker 3: good Pentagon correspondent, you've got sources in a rock or

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Speaker 3: something like that, and you call them and you're like, hey, man,

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Speaker 3: like here's what the Pentagon is saying, and.

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Speaker 1: They're like, oh, that's total bullshit. Actually we did this.

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Speaker 1: And so then what you do, by the way, that

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Speaker 1: would be considered a criminal act or solicitor and then

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Speaker 1: what you do is you go back to them. You go, hey, man,

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Speaker 1: I just spoke to people familiar with the strike. They're

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Speaker 1: saying what you're saying is wrong.

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Speaker 5: They said it was a wedding party.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they said, right, exactly, it was a wedding part.

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Speaker 3: Or they said it was fifty killed as opposed to

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Speaker 3: five hundred. Right.

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Speaker 1: And this happens all the time. This is the standard

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Speaker 1: part of the job. And they go yeah, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you got me right, and that most of the time

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Speaker 1: is what it was. Or they would scream at you,

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Speaker 1: which I also got quite a bit when I was

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Speaker 1: down there.

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Speaker 3: That's the job of quotes, soliciting information. They don't even

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Speaker 3: want that, and so they've created this whole brew haha

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Speaker 3: where they're trying to convince people that it's like a

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Speaker 3: criminal act to solicit clarification. This is a one trillion

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Speaker 3: dollar budget, and the worst part is Ryan is even

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Speaker 3: covering it.

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Speaker 1: It's very hard to.

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Speaker 3: Not be a stenographer because they so limit your access

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Speaker 3: that they make it nearly impossible to print anything which

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Speaker 3: doesn't come from official channel. Unless you're really good at

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Speaker 3: your job, really really really good. Almost everything is going

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Speaker 3: to come through some official channel, which I would argue

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Speaker 3: works to their benefit because the truth is most of

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Speaker 3: the people who cover the Pentagon are the most neocon

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Speaker 3: people in the world.

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Speaker 1: I mean, think about Barbara Starr.

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Speaker 3: Glenn Greenwald used to joke that she was the Pentagon's

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Speaker 3: reporter at CNN, not the CNN's reporter at the Pentagon,

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Speaker 3: or what's that one is named Jennifer from Fox News

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Speaker 3: who's like always just repeating the pro war with the

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Speaker 3: Iran line. They love having those people in the building

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Speaker 3: because they have they repeat their talking points, they get

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Speaker 3: sources right. It's it's not like they're even all that

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Speaker 3: an pagonistic, not nearly enough for my purposes. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: I mean, all of it settles Ryan on this idea

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Speaker 3: that soliciting classified information is a crime. First, no, it's not,

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Speaker 3: it's actually not. But and if somebody leaves you classified information,

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Speaker 3: that's on them. But even more so, this is this

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Speaker 3: is really bad because this is the first time since

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Speaker 3: nineteen forty three that there will not be a preponderance

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Speaker 3: of journalist inside of that building or reporting on the

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Speaker 3: Pentagon because they refuse to sign their ridiculous agreement.

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Speaker 4: Is it still only one America at its point, only

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Speaker 4: one American yes, is only.

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Speaker 5: The Washington Examiner said no.

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Speaker 1: My former employer, the Daily Caller, the.

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Speaker 4: Tale Color said no, Washington Times, Fox News said no

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Speaker 4: Fox News.

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Speaker 1: Pete Heggst's former employer, Rox News.

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Speaker 4: So and your proximate point that this is about covering

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Speaker 4: up the chaos that is like bubbling underneath Pete hegsett

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Speaker 4: this leadership is key because that's that's why specifically they're

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Speaker 4: doing it here on the on the classified documents and

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Speaker 4: classified information. I even take a more expansive view on that.

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Speaker 4: I was interviewing Daniel Elsberg about this once and he

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Speaker 4: made the point He's like, it's not He's like, it's

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Speaker 4: not settled law, that it's a criminal act to leak,

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Speaker 4: even to leak classified information. It's like the First Amendment

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Speaker 4: does not have a carve out for government employees. Now,

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Speaker 4: you can fire a government employee, you can sanction them,

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Speaker 4: you can tell them they can never work for the

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Speaker 4: government again. But his argument is, if you are a

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Speaker 4: government employee and you see the government committing a criminal act,

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Speaker 4: your first Amendment right is to speak about that and

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Speaker 4: is to share information about that. Now you could imagine

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Speaker 4: carve outs or you say, well, treat will treat. And

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Speaker 4: he said, treason is different. If you sell government information.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a whole other thing to foreign a country,

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Speaker 1: that's not that's not a First.

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Speaker 4: Amendment protected activity. If you if it's not newsworthy, it's

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Speaker 4: not criminals and you're just leaking like nuclear codes or whatever.

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Speaker 5: Like he could, he would.

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Speaker 4: Say, like that does not have First Amendment protections, But

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Speaker 4: newsworthy information that the public has a right to know.

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Speaker 5: Is not even a criminal act.

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Speaker 4: So even if you don't believe in that expansive of

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Speaker 4: an interpretation, the idea that it's a criminal act for

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Speaker 4: a journalist to call a source and say, what do

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Speaker 4: you know about this airstrike where the Pentagon claims they

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Speaker 4: killed seventy five in search.

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Speaker 3: And I did this every day when I covered the building.

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Speaker 3: And that's the other funny thing. These people they hate

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Speaker 3: even being questioned their official bullshit narrative. I literally got screaming.

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Speaker 3: He called me a shit stirring fuck face. This was

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Speaker 3: a full bird kernel, which at the time I was

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Speaker 3: like twenty four.

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Speaker 1: I was scared. Right, I'm talking about a frankly fat.

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Speaker 3: Overweight full bird kernel with you know, he's got the

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Speaker 3: what is it called the oak leaf clusters and that

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Speaker 3: he's like fifty eight and he's directing me down because

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Speaker 3: I was like, hey, I have a source telling me

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Speaker 3: that what you said is incorrect, and they try to

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Speaker 3: intimidate you like thugs, Like that's what they do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a it's a rite of passage.

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Speaker 3: Actually a journalist as learning how to deal with getting

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Speaker 3: screamed at. When I talk to journalism classes, I tell

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Speaker 3: that story because I go, one day, you're going to

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Speaker 3: be in that position and they try to exploit your

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Speaker 3: position in your youth and you have to internally it's

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Speaker 3: weird getting yelled at, but yeah, exactly the reason they

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Speaker 3: get mad.

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Speaker 1: Is because they lied to you. That's the whole job.

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Speaker 1: The job is saying no, you're a liar.

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Speaker 3: Actually this entire time, and Ryan, you've published classified information.

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Speaker 1: We published the Discord leaks over here.

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Speaker 3: The argument from Hegseth and all those people, even though

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Speaker 3: all the Republicans were celebrating those Discord leaks that we

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Speaker 3: published showing that the Biden administration was lying about the

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Speaker 3: war in Ukraine and.

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Speaker 1: The level of Pentagon involvement.

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Speaker 3: Now they're like, oh, you're threatening national security.

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Speaker 1: Like you should be prosecuted.

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Speaker 3: That's the argument that Obama actually wanted to make about

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Speaker 3: journalists in Snowden. They wanted people like Glenn to go

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Speaker 3: to jail for even reporting on that, and that's part

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Speaker 3: of the thing that they threw Chelsea Manning into prison for,

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Speaker 3: I guess after eventually pardoning her or whatever. But the

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Speaker 3: point is is that that extraordinary view is now the

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Speaker 3: one at the Pentagon. It's so crazy because they have

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Speaker 3: banned basically all journalists from the building if they don't

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Speaker 3: agree to sign saying that they will basically not clear

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Speaker 3: all the future stories with them and not even ask

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Speaker 3: for clarification on their official readouts.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's hopeful that all these organizations are pushing back.

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Speaker 4: They're siding with the fourth of State. They're signing with

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Speaker 4: the First Amendment over their kind of ideological affinity. You

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Speaker 4: put up the third element here go check out Sager's

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Speaker 4: Twitter feed. He's lighting these people up, So won't put

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Speaker 4: this guy up. Blast Joel Valdez.

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Speaker 3: Joel Valdez is a deputy press secretary, former mac Gates

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Speaker 3: employee over at the Pentagon, And after one of my

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Speaker 3: tweets where I said yes encouraging people of the leak

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Speaker 3: is literally a job. He says, quote, we are only

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Speaker 3: enacting good policy here at the which I replied, here's

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Speaker 3: the irony. Any real journalist knows, and Ryan, you're ten

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Speaker 3: times more real than I am. And it's ninety nine

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Speaker 3: point nine percent of the time the people who leak

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Speaker 3: out reach out to you because they have an ax

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Speaker 3: to grind. In fact, much of the time it is

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Speaker 3: calm flax flack, by the way, as a Washington term

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Speaker 3: for people like Joel, who are press assistants who don't

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Speaker 3: actually know anything, who are the most desperate to leak

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Speaker 3: on background.

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Speaker 1: Those are the people.

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Speaker 3: The junior press staffer is about ninety five percent.

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Speaker 1: The person who's on the other end of the phone.

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Speaker 3: Let me offer you some stuff context, right, some background

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Speaker 3: for your use, so just to be able to do

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Speaker 3: for your ability to report. These are the phone calls,

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Speaker 3: the pact of things that we get. And I encourage

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Speaker 3: Joel to come out and sign a sworn affidavit that

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Speaker 3: you have never leaked information before. And I also want

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Speaker 3: you to say that your former boss, Matt Gates, has

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Speaker 3: also never leaked information before, and that he is in

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Speaker 3: fact not one of those people who has every reporter

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Speaker 3: in this town on speed dial.

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Speaker 5: And in fact, I'd like him to sign an affidavit.

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Speaker 1: That he hasn't leaked about this story. That's right, that's exactly.

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Speaker 4: I guarantee he's leaking about this, this specific.

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Speaker 3: Story, Joel, I will pay you one thousand dollars if

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Speaker 3: you can sign a sworn affidavit it's saying that you've

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Speaker 3: never leaked information, not not just classifying any information previously

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Speaker 3: in your job, including in your current role. One thousand dollars.

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Speaker 3: One thousand US dollars. I'd be willing to bet that

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Speaker 3: they can go to.

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Speaker 4: If you can't take the money, charity, charity of your choice,

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Speaker 4: friends of the.

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Speaker 1: Charity of your choice. Okay, charity of your choice.

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Speaker 5: There are a lot of different charities.

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Speaker 3: We will take the YouTube revenue from this video and

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Speaker 3: we will use it.

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Speaker 1: We will use it to a.

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Speaker 3: Charity, friends of the idea for somebody. All you have

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Speaker 3: to do is sign a sworn affidavit.

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Speaker 1: That's it. That's all you have to do. Okay. I

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Speaker 1: don't know anything else to say on this. Ryan, It's

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Speaker 1: uh no.

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Speaker 4: I'm glad you and Emily are both punching back and

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Speaker 4: the rest of the conservative press, like that's that's what.

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Speaker 1: Has to happen, because this was the wet dream of

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Speaker 1: Obama they wanted to do. They tried to throw Fox

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Speaker 1: out of the White House press cord, you know, under Obama,

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Speaker 1: Like I just told you, I got dressed down for

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Speaker 1: questioning some of the bullshit that they were reporting out

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Speaker 1: about isis. At the time they us hated.

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Speaker 3: You know, at the Pentagon, but they didn't bat it

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Speaker 3: at the end of the day, and our ability to

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Speaker 3: sit there I would argue and actually press them a

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Speaker 3: little bit, which is frankly one of the best parts

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Speaker 3: of that job is you in many cases you get

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Speaker 3: to just question generals, which almost never happens because they'll

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Speaker 3: stream in live from Baghdad. All you have to do

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Speaker 3: is just show up to the room and you can

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Speaker 3: just ask them, like I'm talking to you right now.

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Speaker 3: There's a microphone right above my head. Let's say you're

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Speaker 3: coming in like via a zoom call. And you can

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Speaker 3: sit there and lob questions at these people, and most

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Speaker 3: of the time they would not try to censor you.

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Speaker 3: Now in some cases like the Secretary of Defense or

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Speaker 3: any of that, but it actually used to be one

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Speaker 3: of the more open environments where at the very least

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Speaker 3: on camera you could questions some people in power. Now,

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Speaker 3: keep in mind, press Pete Hegseth, Secretary has not done

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Speaker 3: a press to conference in four months there over at

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Speaker 3: the Pentagon, and the only time they do is when

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Speaker 3: after it's the Iran strike or something like that. So

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Speaker 3: it's not like we're losing a ton, but it is

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Speaker 3: a horrible precedent, and it is genuinely one which I

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Speaker 3: think it's it's the most scary because the Pentagon, that

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Speaker 3: is where all the real shit happens, right, the trillion dollars,

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Speaker 3: the strikes, the most nefarious parts of the federal budget.

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Speaker 3: You know, UFOs like the more that they try to

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Speaker 3: make it so that it's all stenography.

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Speaker 1: We are so much worse off.

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Speaker 3: So good thing technology exists, and if you have classified information,

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Speaker 3: send it over.

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Speaker 4: We'd love to see it and we will publish it.

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Speaker 4: Last point I'd make is that transparency is a sign

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Speaker 4: of strength. Yeah, I agree, this tin pot stuff is

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Speaker 4: a sign of weakness. I totally agree with you.

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Speaker 3: I actually, And the irony is, as of this morning,

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Speaker 3: there are three stories out now about Pete Hegseth sidelining lawyers,

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Speaker 3: about Venezuela Pete Haig Seth's personal lawyer being part of

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Speaker 3: this whole new media restriction, and about how that lawyer

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Speaker 3: has some previous ties to Epstein, and about how this

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Speaker 3: paranoia is part of the reason why he's being sidelined

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Speaker 3: by the White House. People are still going to leak.

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Speaker 3: In fact, they're probably gonna leak more so. By the way, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: if that's you, so we are.

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Speaker 5: We got our signal right here.

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Speaker 3: If you have us, reach out to us both, we'll

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Speaker 3: happily publish it. Let's get to Maine, Ryan, tell us

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Speaker 3: what's going on, man.

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Speaker 4: Janet Mills. After much speculation and much recruitment on the

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Speaker 4: part of Senator Chuck Schumer announced that she is jumping

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Speaker 4: into the race. She's the current Democratic governor of the

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Speaker 4: state of Man. She'll be running against Susan Collins. If

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Speaker 4: she can get through a Democratic primary, she would be

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Speaker 4: the oldest Senator to ever take her first oath of office.

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Speaker 4: Senate is an old folks home in Washington. To be

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Speaker 4: able to set an age record in the United States

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Speaker 4: Senate this deep into its history is nothing short of

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Speaker 4: Extraordinay'd be seventy nine when sworn in, she'd be you

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Speaker 4: do the math eighty five when she finished her first term,

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Speaker 4: and she's running, of course against Graham Plattner, an oysterman

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Speaker 4: veteran of both the Marines.

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Speaker 5: And the Army.

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Speaker 4: At one point, as people on the left are getting

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Speaker 4: starting to look at with Ray's eyebrows, was a worked

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Speaker 4: with Blackwater, but has spent the last ten years as

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Speaker 4: an oysterman, an oyster farmer, and has run as a

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Speaker 4: kind of populist anti war, anti genocide Canada.

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Speaker 5: Just one of these baritone, truth speaking guys.

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Speaker 4: And there was a there was hope among Democrats that

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Speaker 4: the party leadership had seen that running the same kind

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Speaker 4: of milk toast Democrats around the country and particularly in

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Speaker 4: Maine against Susan Collins, who has beaten five of these types, yes,

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Speaker 4: fairly easily, that they had seen it, like we need

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Speaker 4: something different. Maybe we need these tatted up guys that

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Speaker 4: we don't understand, who just answer questions with yes as

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Speaker 4: and nose when they're asked right, Maybe we need that.

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Speaker 4: That hope was dashed by the Democratic Party jumping so

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Speaker 4: fultimately behind Janet Mills. Let's roll a little bit of

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Speaker 4: Governor Mills here is E one.

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Speaker 6: What do you say to people who say, what we

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Speaker 6: really need now in the Democratic Party is younger leadership.

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Speaker 6: But while Governor Mills has been a great governor, she's

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Speaker 6: seventy seven years old and we need younger leadership. What's

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Speaker 6: your response to people who say that it's.

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Speaker 7: A fair point and it's a legitimate consideration. God knows,

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Speaker 7: it's a consideration for me and has been these many months.

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Speaker 7: Have been thinking about it, and people have been urging

441
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,120
Speaker 7: me to run, regardless of my age. But you know what,

442
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:03,919
Speaker 7: I don't think I could live with myself if I

443
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,159
Speaker 7: didn't do everything I can to reverse what's going on

444
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,280
Speaker 7: in Washington, things that are harming main people. Sure, I

445
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,359
Speaker 7: could go, you know, I'm not a rich person by

446
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,159
Speaker 7: any means. But I could just retire, go to my

447
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,000
Speaker 7: camp and fish and read books for the rest of

448
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 7: my life, I guess. But boy, I couldn't live with

449
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,640
Speaker 7: myself if I did that. Not when the times are

450
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,640
Speaker 7: so urgent, so dangerous, and things are happening that are

451
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 7: threatening the health and welfare of main people every day.

452
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,439
Speaker 7: I can't live with that. And so I have the

453
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 7: energy in the time, and I want to give it

454
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:37,480
Speaker 7: my best shot.

455
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 4: If there's some democratic cope to be hat out there.

456
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 5: Ben Ja Jacobs hosted it.

457
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,680
Speaker 4: If you can put up e two, he says, Look

458
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:50,160
Speaker 4: on the bright side here, she would only be what

459
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:56,640
Speaker 4: she's younger than eleven sitting senators, so she'd be only

460
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:57,639
Speaker 4: the twelfth oldest.

461
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 3: So she would be the oldest freshman in history, but

462
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 3: the twelfth oldest sitting senator. What does that tell you

463
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,719
Speaker 3: about our system and starting out?

464
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 4: Because the Senate is a place you go and you

465
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 4: build seniority.

466
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 3: The Senate is a place where it's more dignified to

467
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 3: die of Alzheimer's. You don't enter at Alzheimer's age. Okay,

468
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 3: I didn't say that she had Alzheimer. I'm just saying

469
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 3: it's more dignified to spend you know, decades long career

470
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 3: there and then to die. You know if basically wheelchair

471
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 3: bed ridden and Alzheimer's ridden, you're not supposed to enter

472
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 3: at the age where all of that is a possibility.

473
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 3: But I guess you know, records are meant to be broken.

474
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,400
Speaker 3: Records are meant to be broken. That is what Governor

475
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 3: Mills amazing.

476
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 4: It's an amazing response from the Democrats because they've they've

477
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,399
Speaker 4: been getting so much pressure from their base about weakness

478
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:54,199
Speaker 4: and not thinking, not rethinking their strategy. And Biden's age

479
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 4: was something that Democrats kept telling their base was not

480
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 4: something they should be concerned about, and so they thought, Okay,

481
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,959
Speaker 4: well maybe they aren't doing something different. Here They've got

482
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 4: this guy, Graham Plattner. He's really interesting running in Maine.

483
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 4: And no, they come in and find the person who

484
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 4: would be the oldest freshman senator in history.

485
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 5: So here's E three.

486
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 1: Here's the case she's making in her launch.

487
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,400
Speaker 8: Folks, do you want Democrats to take back the Senate? Well,

488
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 8: I'm Governor Janet Mills and I'm running to flip Maine

489
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 8: Senate seed blue. Susan Collins has sold out Maine and

490
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 8: bowed down to special interest and to Donald Trump. But

491
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 8: that ends now. So chip in five dollars today and

492
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 8: let's win this.

493
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 4: And I think if she were wildly popular, a lot

494
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 4: of partisan Democrats would be like, Okay, all right, we'll

495
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 4: take one more super old person in the Senate.

496
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 5: What's it matter?

497
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 4: Like She's definitely going to beat Susan Collins, and that's

498
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 4: really what matters. Whereas polls that match Platner against Collins

499
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 4: and Mills against Collins show that Platner has much more upside,

500
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 4: like significantly more upside against Collins, because Platner can pull

501
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 4: from Independence and Republicans in a way that Mills can't.

502
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 4: Mills is a well known figure in Maine.

503
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 3: Yes, you her, you like her at all, But let's

504
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 3: give the caveats all right, main insanely hard state poll.

505
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 1: Remember Susan Collins's opponent was up by seven How.

506
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 3: Much to Susan Collins went like sixteen yet, so it

507
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 3: was thirteen point differential, notoriously one of the hardest states

508
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 3: to poll. I am curious how much this will be

509
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 3: a test then of democratic leadership and of name I

510
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 3: D versus you know, a social media more driven campaign

511
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 3: like Grand Platter.

512
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: For example.

513
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 3: One of the things that the governor has on her

514
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 3: side is that the Chuck Schumer machine is now throwing

515
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 3: behind her tire. Let's put this up here on the screen.

516
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,959
Speaker 3: It's actually super interesting. So the DSCC and Janet Mills

517
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 3: have formed a joint fundraising committee together called the Main

518
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,360
Speaker 3: Senate Victory Fund for twenty twenty six. Before we even

519
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 3: get to Platner's response, You've got to explain what that means,

520
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 3: because that's effectively an endorsement without an endorsement.

521
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,239
Speaker 4: It's so yes, basically it is that endorsement. And what

522
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,679
Speaker 4: it does is it opens up a campaign finance mechanism

523
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,919
Speaker 4: that allows big money to flow into a vehicle that

524
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 4: can be used to support Janet Mills. And so that

525
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 4: means all of the New York donors, and in particular

526
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,199
Speaker 4: people have been like, why won't the King, Jefferies and

527
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 4: Chuck Schumer just come out and like condemn netnyahuo what

528
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 4: he's doing, Like why do they keep doing this very

529
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 4: unpopular thing? And the answer for a lot of it

530
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 4: is the donors that are going to fund the national

531
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 4: effort to take back the Senate don't want them to

532
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 4: do it. So it's these kinds of donors who are

533
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 4: then going to flood the main Senate race with money,

534
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 4: and they can go much beyond the individual max that

535
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 4: would you know, you can you're you're capped out at

536
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 4: like you know, seventy six hundred or whatever for like

537
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 4: primary in general. But with this joint victory fund, you

538
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 4: can give a lot more money. And and so this

539
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 4: means that she'll have all the money that she'll need

540
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 4: in the primary. Platner has raised I think four million

541
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 4: dollars from small downers basically since launching his campaign. He'll

542
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 4: probably raised another million from Janet Mills getting in from

543
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 4: people being so angry, like you're seeing people come out

544
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 4: and endorse David Hoggs group. Actually the College Democrats of America,

545
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 4: which are usually a pretty.

546
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 5: Kind of party a line.

547
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, they go, they go along because their careerists they

548
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: used to be.

549
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 4: Now these College Democrats are different now, like they're they're

550
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,959
Speaker 4: actually really I don't know that. So they just endorsed

551
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 4: Grand Platner, which which is interesting because these are kids

552
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 4: who want.

553
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,360
Speaker 5: Jobs with Chuck Schumer. Right, well maybe now they're going again.

554
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: It must be different.

555
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 3: They are, right, because the college Damsey you and I

556
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 3: grew up with were the most like Hillary Behanker.

557
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 4: We had the president vice president on the show there there.

558
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 4: These are not party hacks anymore fascinating and so they're

559
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 4: they but a hogs your behind. So I saw Charlotte

560
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 4: Klemer endorsed as a Democratic Operative saying like I wasn't

561
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 4: she said, I wasn't going to endorse, But seeing the

562
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,679
Speaker 4: d SEC get in is infuriating, and so I'm endorsing

563
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 4: Graham Plattner. Then we can read Graham Platner's response. Yeah,

564
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 4: it's almost a gift to him in some ways. He says,

565
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 4: Chuck Schumer should be focused on fighting It's the same side,

566
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 4: I mean, in the same element, Chuck Schumer should be

567
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 4: focused on fighting Donald Trump and protecting healthcare from millions

568
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 4: of Americans, not meddling in a main primary. D c's

569
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 4: Choice has lost to Susan Collins five times in a row.

570
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 4: We can't afford a sixth. So I actually think that

571
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 4: there's some real advantage to Platner here because he now

572
00:27:54,040 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 4: solidifies his brand as independent of the Democratic Party establishment,

573
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 4: like they are literally running somebody against him to try

574
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 4: to stop him. In a country, and in particularly in

575
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 4: a state where fealty towards the party establishment is seen

576
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 4: as a demerit, that's actually that actually be a benefit.

577
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 4: I think Mom Danni is actually boosted in the public

578
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 4: perception by the fact that Hakeem Jeffreys and Chuck Schumer

579
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 4: wolmandrsum because it makes him look more independent, like this

580
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 4: guy's this guy's serious here. So if if he can

581
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,959
Speaker 4: beat Janet Mills. Then I think he actually comes into

582
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 4: the prime, comes into the general against Collins much stronger

583
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 4: among independents and Republicans than if he had just kind

584
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 4: of coasted to a primary victory. For people that haven't

585
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 4: seen him speak, here's a little clip we can roll

586
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 4: the next sod This is Platinir Can.

587
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,719
Speaker 9: You can share your feelings on ice?

588
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 10: So right now, armed masked secret police are going around

589
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 10: the country, kidnapping American citizens, kidnapping people that are here legally,

590
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 10: abusing people because of the color of their skin. It's disgusting.

591
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 10: One of the reasons I want to go to the

592
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 10: Senate is that when we have power again, I want

593
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 10: to haul all of these people and the ones that

594
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 10: made them do it, in front of a Senate subcommittee,

595
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 10: owing to the American people how they can justify their

596
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 10: illegal and unconstitutional behavior.

597
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 3: There's mister Plattner. Now, okay, we have enough time so

598
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 3: we can have the debate. I'm not saying what he

599
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 3: said there was bad. However, mister Plattner. I've had beef

600
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 3: with mister Platner since he posted a certain viral video

601
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 3: where he had a constitute because I know he listened

602
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 3: to the show by the way, so free advice for

603
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 3: you know, we don't have.

604
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: It right now, Chrystal and I argue about it.

605
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 3: In the past, he was asked specifically about illegals taking

606
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 3: healthcare back by like an immigrant, yeah, by a person

607
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 3: at a town hall. Sure we can call it antimon

608
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 3: not a friend of his right, Yes, yeah, by somebody

609
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 3: who was okay. And his response was and this was

610
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 3: celebrated by the left and they clipped it, they clipped

611
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 3: it and they posted. His response was, we can't blame

612
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 3: her because she's getting bad information. Now, there is a

613
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 3: concept amongst Republicans something known as the hicclib, which is

614
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 3: somebody who is in a rural Republican area but is

615
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 3: a shit lib through and through. I personally would argue that, yes,

616
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 3: his affectation and all of that is great, but is

617
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 3: it not the most elite lib coded response in the

618
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 3: world to say that your belief is because of a

619
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 3: lack of information and a lack of education. To me,

620
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 3: that is one of the most condescending things that you

621
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 3: could ever say about somebody, is that because they are

622
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 3: basically an uneducated shit, basically a Fox newswatcher or whatever.

623
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 3: That that is where the belief that the mindset is

624
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 3: one where you can only hold that belief if you

625
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 3: are uneducated. That is the definition of a hicc clib

626
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 3: and elite liberal response, And no wonder it went viral. Unbudds,

627
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 3: the munch of New York City liberals and a bunch

628
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 3: of other people who are living in Brooklyn are like, yeah,

629
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 3: he's school and these these hicks who are out there

630
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 3: in the middle of Maine. So I'm curious for your response.

631
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 3: I'm curious for your response.

632
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 4: So don't tell me how I still respond, because I would.

633
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 4: I don't want to be dot don't tell me yet,

634
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 4: tell me afterwards. I agree with you if I would

635
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 4: not have said it, and I definitely would not have

636
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 4: clipped it as representative of the way that I wanted

637
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 4: to talk to independence and Republicans, because it is a

638
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 4: matter of fact that something like eight million ish people

639
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 4: you know, came across the border in a historic fashion

640
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 4: under the Biden administration, like that happened.

641
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's not wrong about Yeah, it's literally a fact.

642
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 4: So to tell her that she's wrong about that, now.

643
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 3: Well, she was talking about healthcare, health care specifically dollars.

644
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 3: Right now, I will tell you what Herzel said, and

645
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 3: I don't even necessarily well, I do disagree with it,

646
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 3: but what she said, just to be entirely fair, was

647
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 3: that you hold that position because you're being sold a

648
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 3: different story, and that the response is not to pit

649
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 3: people against each other, it's to create a universal system

650
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 3: so that people are not feeling as if they're Now

651
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 3: my response was, we have to live in a world

652
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 3: of finite resources, and we can't live in one where

653
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 3: a bunch of people who are not even high school

654
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 3: educated from Guatemala get to come here and get free healthcare.

655
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: I think that's fucking nuts personally.

656
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 3: But my point is that that platinum response seems literally

657
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 3: cooked in a lab to appeal to a bunch of

658
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 3: liberals idea of what a hicclib is supposed to look

659
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 3: like in Brooklyn or elsewhere. He's like, yeah, he's still

660
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 3: in these uneducated I don't know. It's incredibly condescending to

661
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 3: me personally that somebody could only hold that belief if

662
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 3: because they're uneducated. It's it's frankly preposterous, and so I

663
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 3: don't know. That's my one thing of a hold up.

664
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 3: It all just seems too good to be true. The

665
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 3: affectation the lobster fisherman. I looked a little bit into

666
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 3: his background. Like you said, he served in Blackwater. That's like,

667
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 3: it's a little weird.

668
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 5: But I lived.

669
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: Here in DC, went to GW the same school as me.

670
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 3: So it's like, okay, well, you know, maybe we're not

671
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 3: so far apart there, mister Graham in terms of living

672
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 3: in the big city before we went back to fish lobster.

673
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 3: It's like, maybe that's where the ideology comes from. That's

674
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 3: my personal suspicion anytime I see something like this. The

675
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 3: last person who reminded me of this was John Fetterman,

676
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 3: and so I would remind you all, how did that

677
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 3: work out?

678
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 4: As I've as I've said before, I knew him when

679
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 4: he was a bartender to tune in back, oh wow,

680
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 4: twenty years ago, throwback, Okay, And so I think he's

681
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 4: always been I don't think. I don't think he had

682
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 4: to evolve to this new position. He does suffer from

683
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 4: the comparison with Fetterman because Fetterman betrayed the left, so

684
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 4: you fundamentally, not just the left, the Democratic Party like

685
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 4: his Fetterman's approval rating with Democrats is wildly underwater.

686
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 5: Like Kirsten.

687
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 4: Cinema levels are worse, yes, and Platter just keeps saying, like,

688
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 4: all I can do is prove to you that I'm

689
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 4: not John Fetterman. And he will say he will tell

690
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 4: you directly, and he says it a lot.

691
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 5: I'm not.

692
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 3: I don't, But I'm just saying that is the only

693
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 3: person in modern memory who I can think of who

694
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 3: had the same affectation and the same.

695
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: Oh he's where's his little hoodie? He wears his hoodie.

696
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,359
Speaker 3: He's one of us only to come in and I mean,

697
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,399
Speaker 3: who knows what happened to him, but with the injury.

698
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: But eventually just becoming a pro Israel basically a Republican.

699
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 4: Fetterman was a rich guy who went to Harvard, yes,

700
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 4: and then became mayor of a small town with dad's

701
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 4: money or whatever, and had to put.

702
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 5: A lot of this on.

703
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 3: Whereas I'm glad we can admit all of us now. So,

704
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 3: by the way, huge weedhead just saying.

705
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 4: Whereas pla or genuinely middle class actually served.

706
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 3: In them, I'm not denigrating the man personally, he served

707
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 3: the country or any of that. I'm saying that the

708
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 3: ideology which leads one to say that a person who

709
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 3: has a different belief than you can only be because

710
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 3: of lack of education. Is quite literally the mindset that

711
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 3: last Democrats the election, and is the ideology of the

712
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 3: people who make one hundred and fifty thousand dollars a

713
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 3: year and think that because they went to state school

714
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 3: that they're better than everybody else.

715
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: Right, that's all I'm saying.

716
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 4: It's elitist, and it's in the Marxist world.

717
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: They call it like false consciousness, like that.

718
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 4: You're accusing someone of they have the wrong consciousness that

719
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 4: they ought to have because they're just diluted for different reasons,

720
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 4: propagandas et cetera. Of course, there's a lot of propaganda

721
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 4: around immigration, like so it's I can understand an attempt

722
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 4: to try to thread the needle on that. What I

723
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 4: would have done on that particular one is what I've

724
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 4: said before is that hospitals are required to serve everybody.

725
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 4: If people come in uninsured, we all it's just better

726
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 4: to its actually better to ensure people. But the Democratic

727
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 4: bill does not allow people who are illegally to be covered. Frankly,

728
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 4: it should for the reasons I just said role and

729
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 4: you know, we want to save our rural hospitals or

730
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 4: you want them to go under that aside, there's an

731
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 4: interesting contrast going on about who populist Democrats are going

732
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 4: to be between Platner and Dan Osborne. And Dan Oisen

733
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 4: is not Democratic actual independent, but he takes a harder

734
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 4: line on immigration.

735
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 3: Well he's in a deep red state, right, he's at

736
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:34,399
Speaker 3: R plus fifty state or something.

737
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: I don't know the actual number. I'd have to go

738
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: back and check, but I don't know how much.

739
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 4: And so he's he's like, look, I want a secure border, right,

740
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 4: and he's willing to just and he basically just pushes

741
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 4: that issue aside.

742
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 5: It's like, yeah, I want a secure border, and then

743
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 5: he will.

744
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 4: Say it does not support like masked thugs going around

745
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 4: scooping people up.

746
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 3: I mean, Clattner's on bredder ground, if I'm being honest, Like,

747
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 3: here's the truth. Kamala won the state fifty two forty

748
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 3: five to Trump. Trump lost it by seven points. Like

749
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 3: that's a lot, Okay, So you're already living in a

750
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 3: state where Susan Collins is much more of an outlier.

751
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 3: And so yeah, I mean it does kind of make

752
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 3: sense to basically be a lib who's got, you know,

753
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,280
Speaker 3: who can culturally connect. I mean it doesn't that doesn't

754
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 3: seem disconnected at all. Like it seems to me like

755
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 3: any Democrats probably gonna win the state in this environment.

756
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 3: I just personally found that clip as if it was

757
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 3: some great new invention by the lad I'm like, you know,

758
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 3: to be honest, again, I think that is quite literally

759
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 3: the epitome of the problem with elite liberalism is you

760
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 3: can only hold a different belief because you're uneducated.

761
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 4: Reminded me a little bit of when McCain said about Obama. No, ma'am,

762
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 4: he's not an Arab. Oh, I do remember he's a

763
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 4: good man. Yes, And people at the time like all

764
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 4: applauded it. Right, But at the same time we're like,

765
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 4: are you saying that an Arab can't be.

766
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: A good Yeah? Good, good point. I remember that. I

767
00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: remember that well.

768
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 3: Actually, because he got a lot of praise. She's like, no, man, no,

769
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 3: he's a good man.

770
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 5: He's a good man.

771
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: Lot.

772
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:06,359
Speaker 5: It's kind of weird. Quote.

773
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you mean by that? Maybe we'll give

774
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: him the benefit of the doubt.

775
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:12,479
Speaker 5: We did because the bar was so low.

776
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 1: The bar was low, that's true.

777
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess he did prove it out because

778
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 3: his life's mission was to bomb as many as he personally,

779
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 3: that's true. So whatever last thing, you've got a big

780
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 3: update for us on Pakistan.

781
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: I'm just going to sit back and let you roll.

782
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 4: So we have a genuinely extraordinary story developing out of

783
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 4: Pakistan that really almost defies beliefs.

784
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: To walk you guys through this role f F two.

785
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 4: Here, incredible amounts of violence unfolded outside of Lahore this week.

786
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 5: This is is our policeman.

787
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 4: Chase chasing down a pro Palestine protester, trying to shoot

788
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:52,879
Speaker 4: him in the back.

789
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 5: Other there's much.

790
00:38:55,280 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 4: Worse video that has emerged online, though very very little

791
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 4: has been reported about this anywhere, whether it's Pakistan media,

792
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 4: which is entirely locked.

793
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 5: Down, or around the world.

794
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 4: We are hearing that the death count could well be

795
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 4: over a thousand people, and just try to sit with

796
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 4: the extent of the massacre that we're talking about here

797
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 4: before we get into the details. The context here is

798
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 4: that this happened. This started right around the exact same

799
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 4: time that Pakistan's Prime Minister, Shbah Sharif was in Egypt

800
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 4: with the rest of the Arab Muslim countries celebrating the

801
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 4: ceasefire deal. And these things are not disconnected at all.

802
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 4: Shabaz Sharif is in power because they flagrantly stole the

803
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 4: election back in February of twenty twenty four and have

804
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 4: Imran Khan in prison. The United States has been dangling

805
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 4: the threat of supporting the release of Imran Khan to

806
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 4: basically corner Pakistan's militaries. Pakistan's military is currently in control.

807
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 5: They operate through.

808
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 4: Shabaz Sharif, and but the they operate at the at

809
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 4: the at the blessing and the courtesy of the United States,

810
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 4: which at any moment could basically signal you have to

811
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 4: let him Ron Khan out.

812
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 5: And so.

813
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 4: Pakistan's military basically is doing anything the United States.

814
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:20,399
Speaker 5: Wants as a result.

815
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 4: So let's let's roll for the just to understand what's

816
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,760
Speaker 4: happening in Egypt while this extraordinary violence is unfolding in Pakistan.

817
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 5: Let's roll F.

818
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 9: Six, Prime Minister Sheriff of Pakistan. And also I have

819
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 9: to say, my favorite Field Marshal from Pakistan who's not here,

820
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 9: but the Prime Minister is here and you're going to

821
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 9: give his regards where are you?

822
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 3: Well?

823
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 11: Thank you doing that.

824
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 12: Do you want to say with yourself to me the

825
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 12: other day?

826
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: And then would you like to say what I think

827
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:52,760
Speaker 1: it's it was so nice.

828
00:40:53,000 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 11: Pakistan had nominated President Donald Trump for Nobel Peace Prize

829
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 11: for his outstanding extraordinary contributions to first stop war between

830
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 11: India and Pakistan and then achieve ceasefire along with his

831
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 11: very wonderful team. And today again I would like to

832
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 11: nominate this great president for Noel Peace Prize because I

833
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 11: genuinely feel that he is the most genuine and most

834
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 11: wonderful candidate for Peace Prize because he has brought not

835
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 11: only peace in South Asia, saved millions of people their lives.

836
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 4: So Shabbaz Sharif is kind of infamous in Pakistan for

837
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 4: those obsequious and kind of embarrassing speeches that he gets

838
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 4: to people like Trump or golf leaders or basically anybody

839
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 4: that Pakistan you know, needs uh needs money from, or

840
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 4: needs political cover from.

841
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 5: But so the.

842
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 4: The the party in question here is known in Pakistan

843
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 4: that was the victim of this masac known.

844
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 5: As the t LP. So t LP are basically a.

845
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 4: Product of the Pakistan military over the years. So when

846
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 4: you have a military dictatorship in order to kind of

847
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 4: stay in power over the decades. They create all of

848
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 4: these different political factions that have some tiny bit of

849
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 4: independence but are effectively run either by the ISI or

850
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 4: the Pakistan military or both, and TLP is one of them.

851
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 5: And TLP is these.

852
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 4: Are hardcore far right religious fundamentalists that could be deployed

853
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 4: you know, for different you know, strategic or tactical reasons

854
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 4: by the by the pack Kistan military. And so to

855
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,879
Speaker 4: say that there are a lot a lot of good

856
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 4: guys in this story would be an understatement. Like usually

857
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 4: when the TLP is out there protesting, it's to try

858
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 4: to like, you know, get somebody executed for having an

859
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 4: affair or having a nose ring or something like.

860
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 5: Not not not.

861
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 4: The kind of people that make sympathetic figures and you know,

862
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 4: to to Western liberals like myself for instance. Yet, so

863
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 4: the TLP was deployed here to protest against the Gaza

864
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 4: war and to protest a little bit about Pakistan getting

865
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 4: a little closer to Israel and hinting at some type

866
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 4: of normalization here. Uh, it's sad RIZV who's the head

867
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 4: of the TLP, announced his protests during his Friday prayers. Well,

868
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 4: then you might be thinking, wait a minute, TLP, which

869
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 4: is a creation of Pakistan military, is going to be

870
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 4: protesting against Pakistan, Like, what on earth?

871
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 5: What's going on here?

872
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 1: And this is where it gets so diabolical.

873
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 4: And what I'm going to share is basically our analysis,

874
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 4: but it's it's highly informed by people with serious knowledge

875
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 4: about what's what's going on here. So why on earth

876
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 4: would the military encourage protests against itself? Well, one is

877
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 4: obvious on the geopolitical stage, it would be a way

878
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 4: to tell the US, like, don't push us too hard

879
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 4: when it comes to like normalization with Israel, because look,

880
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 4: we've got problems back at home. That's only one little

881
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,359
Speaker 4: part of it, though. I think what's really going on

882
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 4: goes back to this November twenty sixth, twenty twenty four

883
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 4: protests in support of Iran Khan. You had thousands of

884
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 4: people come out into the streets. We covered here saying

885
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 4: you know, free i Ron Khan. The security forces massacred

886
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 4: huge numbers of people, and we published here like exclusive

887
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,240
Speaker 4: video and other documents that we had gotten that showed

888
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 4: the extent of the massacre and also that it was

889
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 4: planned and organized ahead of time by the security services.

890
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,479
Speaker 4: That this was not a something that got out of hand.

891
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 4: They deliberately instigated this and the violent crackdown basically wiped

892
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 4: out public protest on behalf of him Ron Khan. And

893
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 4: so I think so the military saw we know for

894
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 4: a fact that they saw this as a success. So

895
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 4: what they did is they're playing that card again, but

896
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 4: this time with the TLP, try to get to get

897
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,479
Speaker 4: them under control. So what they're signaling here is that

898
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 4: if we do move move forward, as we move forward

899
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 4: with better relations with Israel under pressure from the US,

900
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 4: there will be no protesting against this. And so it

901
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 4: was Monday, Monday morning, and you can roll I think

902
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 4: it's you're going to just roll this as as I'm

903
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 4: talking here some of the footage that did emerge out

904
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 4: of Pakistan. So the march was supposed to go initially

905
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 4: to Lahore. With negotiations, they were able to persuade the

906
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 4: marchers to move instead to merid Key, which is a

907
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 4: town kind of north of north of Lahore where there's

908
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 4: less base of support for the TLP, And you then

909
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:23,760
Speaker 4: have this outbreak of shooting and shelling. One person said

910
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 4: they saw more than six hundred bodies on the ground,

911
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 4: like absolute carnage. Sad Risvey sent a negotiating team, you know,

912
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 4: before this broke out to try to settle this. That

913
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 4: negotiating team was arrested. He organized another negotiating team, sent

914
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 4: them in. It happened anywhere right up until the violent started.

915
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 4: He was pleading for this not to go down. We

916
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 4: understand that the decision had been had already been made

917
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 4: that they were going to carry out of this, this

918
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 4: violent crackdown to send to send this signal that there

919
00:46:58,239 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 4: will be no pushback again.

920
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 5: This the fact that so we did find some coverage.

921
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 4: Of it in Pakistan media, which is aligned with the military,

922
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 4: so like controlled by the military, and that really tells

923
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 4: you a lot because it's like, okay, if they are

924
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 4: allowed to report on this, And this is where we

925
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 4: saw the interview with somebody saying that's more than they

926
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 4: saw six hundred bodies, Like why is a Pakistan military

927
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 4: allowing that to be aired?

928
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 5: Because it's a signal.

929
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 4: In other words, what good is a spectacular display of

930
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 4: violence against protesters if you don't tell the country about it.

931
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 4: So they're very carefully balancing the amount of information that

932
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 4: gets out about this massacre so that everyone in Pakistan

933
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 4: knows that it happened, so that they understand you will

934
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 4: not protest for Palestine, but not so much gets out

935
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 4: that there's international pressure on them, that there's international condemnation

936
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:05,319
Speaker 4: of it.

937
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,320
Speaker 1: And that's a very tight rope to walk. It seems

938
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 1: to have worked so far.

939
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:09,800
Speaker 5: They're walking in.

940
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 4: This was Monday, today's Wednesday, so but it's still going on.

941
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 4: So after this, after the massacre in the streets, you

942
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:22,359
Speaker 4: started having house rates of all these TLP people, which

943
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 4: again like it's it's interesting because a lot of Pakistani

944
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 4: don't like.

945
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 5: TLP, like these guys are thugs and goons.

946
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 4: And like they're they they they're mobs that go around

947
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:35,720
Speaker 4: like stoning people like, so we don't want any sympathy

948
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 4: for them. As one person I target said, this is

949
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 4: the first time they protested something good and also the

950
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:42,879
Speaker 4: first time they get massacred first or did something good.

951
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 5: And so.

952
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 4: That's so that's where we are now, very like and

953
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:53,359
Speaker 4: they are walking the rope like there is right now.

954
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,839
Speaker 4: This is basically the only coverage. We'll have a story

955
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,399
Speaker 4: at drop Side about this. This is basically the only

956
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 4: coverage that you're seeing around the world of this massacred

957
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 4: that could be like one of a thousand people getting killed.

958
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 4: That is a ton of usually a story like report

959
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 4: the reports about bodies just getting thrown into trucks and

960
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 4: dallas of chemras like it's it's horrifying and it's and

961
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 4: it's deeply horrifying to think that something like this can

962
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:24,719
Speaker 4: happen and nobody even knows about it.

963
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 3: Actually, while you're talking, Ryan, there's some I'll get your

964
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 3: live reaction. Pakistani Air Force carried out a wave of

965
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 3: air strikes against Taliban affiliated sites and military bases in

966
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 3: Kabble throughout other provinces.

967
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, so this comes it's up with that.

968
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: So very recently, they supported the Taliban, they funded.

969
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 5: Them, Yeah, yeah, when they were fighting.

970
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 1: I can't keep up.

971
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 4: They funded they backed the Talban when the Taliban were

972
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 4: fighting the US.

973
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 1: Right of course, because we gave Pakistan money to do.

974
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:51,240
Speaker 1: That makes a lot of time.

975
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 4: Right because then we would like it was their argument

976
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:55,839
Speaker 4: for why they we needed to fund them, Yeah, because

977
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 4: look at these terrorists out there. Don't you want us

978
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:00,879
Speaker 4: to fight them when they're funding that they're yes, very

979
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,879
Speaker 4: It's just it's just these conspiracies and games like all

980
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:05,919
Speaker 4: the way down. It's crazy but yes, so a couple

981
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 4: of weeks ago or less, Uh, there was border clashes

982
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 4: where the Taliban killed something like more than fifty Pakistani soldiers,

983
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 4: like a serious, serious conflict. Because Pakistan has been saber

984
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 4: rattling at the Taliban and suggesting that they are going

985
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 4: to do regime change in.

986
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 5: Cobble and throw the Taliban. It's like you wait, hold on,

987
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 5: you're going to do what? How are you going to

988
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 5: do that?

989
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 4: So, yes, so this this, this is in line his

990
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 4: favorite field marshal by the way, that's his name's Assimnir

991
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 4: That's who Trump is referring to there, and he's the

992
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 4: guy that actually runs the country. Uh, this is his strategy.

993
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 4: So he's he's been using, you know, extreme amounts of

994
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:54,719
Speaker 4: violence against you know, the crackdown on the part. Yeah,

995
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 4: we're on confolks and now the TLP folks, uh and

996
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 4: then and now here. And he's really feeling it for

997
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 4: two reasons. One is that he now has the unquestioned

998
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:09,800
Speaker 4: not on question, but he has full throat of support

999
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 4: of the Trump administration.

1000
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 5: So this fear that Imran Khan was.

1001
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 4: Going to get released and he'd be in trouble is

1002
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 4: subsiding and they feel very good about how the India

1003
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 4: Pakistan war went for them, that they stood up to

1004
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 4: India and got through it and had support from the

1005
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 4: US as in it. India is like everybody who follows

1006
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 4: Indian politics says like, India's going to hit Pakistan again

1007
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 4: very soon.

1008
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 1: Well, they're still very angry.

1009
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 3: That's why they don't accept the US narrative of the

1010
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 3: peace deal.

1011
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: They're like, there is no peace right, it's just no.

1012
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 5: We're hitting them again.

1013
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:47,320
Speaker 4: So Assamnir might be proud of the way he's navigated

1014
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:52,839
Speaker 4: this so far, but to have a two front war

1015
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 4: Afghanistan and India while also cracking down on your fundamentalist

1016
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 4: rights and your populist affection of im run con supporters.

1017
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 1: Is if you're India, you're like, now's the time, Yeah, yeah,

1018
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: hit them.

1019
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 5: This guy's yeah.

1020
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:16,800
Speaker 4: So I don't think we've seen the last of this situation,

1021
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 4: that's for sure.

1022
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 3: Well, thank you for the update, Ryan, as always our

1023
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 3: resident Pakistan correspondent. You know, I thought I knew a

1024
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 3: lot about Pakistan and time met this. It's the best part. Okay,

1025
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 3: Now we're going to throw to a pre recorded segment

1026
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 3: that Ryan did about the free press is supposed debunking

1027
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:37,399
Speaker 3: of the Gaza famine narrative. Ryan and the Dropside team

1028
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 3: did some excellent journalism and reached out to many of

1029
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:41,799
Speaker 3: the families involved lo and behold, all of them are

1030
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,800
Speaker 3: decimated by famine. They got actual interviews on the record.

1031
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:46,359
Speaker 3: So let's go ahead and throw to that, and then

1032
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 3: we will also see you all later.

1033
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 4: We have a new story over at drop site News,

1034
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 4: written with my colleague Maha Husseini, that looks into the

1035
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:01,839
Speaker 4: infamous reporting that the Free Press did into what they

1036
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 4: said were a dozen cases of Palestinians who they claimed

1037
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 4: had been unfairly elevated as examples of famine and gaza.

1038
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 4: The article was titled they became symbols for Gazen starvation,

1039
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 4: but all twelve suffer from other health problems. Now, we

1040
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 4: discovered something very strange when we first started looking into this,

1041
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:29,839
Speaker 4: and we don't have to dwell on this. They don't

1042
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:33,719
Speaker 4: look into twelve cases they don't like unless they did

1043
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:36,320
Speaker 4: and just didn't publish it, and we asked them for comment.

1044
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 4: We have not gotten comment on this bizarre discrepancy. It

1045
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:45,239
Speaker 4: doesn't fundamentally undermine their reporting by itself, but they said

1046
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:47,839
Speaker 4: they were going to look into twelve cases, plus the

1047
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 4: famous New York Times. Once that's thirteen. The only name nine,

1048
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 4: there's another one that's alluded to, so you could generously

1049
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 4: give them ten. So when we started looking closer at

1050
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 4: their reporting, we're like, wait a minute, this is deeply flimsy. However,

1051
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 4: according to Olivey Reinhold, this was truly outstanding reporting. So

1052
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 4: let's roll a little bit of her from a clip

1053
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:13,760
Speaker 4: that came along with their posts.

1054
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 13: So you've probably seen these photos of skeletal kids in

1055
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 13: gaza on front pages, all over social media, even in

1056
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,400
Speaker 13: a unic f ad. They've become the symbols of famine.

1057
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 13: But we decided to look into these photos and the

1058
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 13: stories behind them, and what we found is that in

1059
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:33,400
Speaker 13: case after case, these kids were sick, but not just

1060
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 13: with malnutrition. In every instance, they were suffering with other

1061
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:41,800
Speaker 13: conditions or illnesses like cystic fibrosis, cerebral palsy, and even

1062
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 13: traumatic head injuries.

1063
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 4: Now all of this is important because obviously this is

1064
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 4: not just important in its own right, and their original

1065
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 4: piece was perhaps to me, one of the most infuriating

1066
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 4: I've ever seen because of how shoddy it was. It's

1067
00:54:56,080 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 4: one thing to look into do any investigation you want,

1068
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 4: we should also do the investigation. What we found here

1069
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,879
Speaker 4: is that the Free Press did not, as far as

1070
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 4: we can tell, attempt to contact any of the families

1071
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:14,719
Speaker 4: or the people involved in storry, Which is journalism one

1072
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 4: on one is if you're going to write about somebody's

1073
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,759
Speaker 4: health conditions, you would presumably speak to them or their

1074
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 4: doctors or somebody who has familiarity, which a lot of

1075
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 4: it is Google translated.

1076
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:25,240
Speaker 12: Well, I was gonna say a lot of the journalists

1077
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:28,839
Speaker 12: on the ground who had used the images already, they

1078
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 12: were on the ground talking to the families, if I'm

1079
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:35,280
Speaker 12: remembering correctly. For the New York Times, pictures were taken

1080
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 12: by a photojournalist, and I think there was a journalist

1081
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 12: on the ground, right, and they had been in conversation

1082
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 12: with the families about the conditions.

1083
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, and so the fundamental point that the Free Press

1084
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 4: says that it's making with its investigation is that these

1085
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 4: children were held up, mostly children. They are two adults

1086
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 4: held up as examples of the victims of the famine,

1087
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 4: but in fact they had pre existing conditions, and they

1088
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:03,320
Speaker 4: exposed the fact that they have these pre existing conditions.

1089
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 12: So what we did, which weren't disclosed by the Washington Post,

1090
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 12: for example, and like the Washington Post put up a

1091
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 12: note eventually.

1092
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:11,279
Speaker 1: And I actually think i'mes added something and the point that.

1093
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 12: You and I talked about at the time, it's actually

1094
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 12: perfectly acceptable to disclose sure those those pre existing problems,

1095
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 12: and they should do that. And the reporting that you

1096
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 12: all have added and contributed to the conversation is that

1097
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:27,759
Speaker 12: actually it's often people with pre existing conditions who are

1098
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:31,360
Speaker 12: the first to succumb when there are shortages of food.

1099
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 4: Exactly full context is good, but the idea that these

1100
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 4: children's pre existing conditions were the thing that was driving

1101
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 4: their health complications, which is what the free press pushes

1102
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 4: that is that turns out not to be the case

1103
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 4: once you've talked to their families. So we asked Maha

1104
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 4: to interview as many of these family members.

1105
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:51,760
Speaker 5: As she could.

1106
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:54,840
Speaker 4: In the middle of her reporting, she was forcibly displaced

1107
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:58,920
Speaker 4: from Gaza City and she had she had interviewed and

1108
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 4: done reporting on three of the cases.

1109
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 5: And I said that you don't stop.

1110
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 4: And it's like reporting from a tent without electricity, with

1111
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:13,239
Speaker 4: like intermittent access to internet and no home base to

1112
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 4: write it's extraordinarily difficult. And the cases that she looked into,

1113
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 4: I think told you know enough of the story that

1114
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 4: that we can understand what's going on here. So we

1115
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:27,560
Speaker 4: can start with Muhammad Zachariah. I'll move to walk, who

1116
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 4: actually is the now twenty two month old whose picture

1117
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 4: adorned the New York Times story that then created this

1118
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:36,439
Speaker 4: controversy of FP and others said, this child has other

1119
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 4: health complications, so you know, you should not have used

1120
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 4: them as an example of the worsening famine conditions in Gaza.

1121
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 4: So we talked to family and got from them before

1122
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 4: and after photos. So the photo you're looking at here

1123
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 4: is Mohammed twelve days before the March second siege is

1124
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 4: announced in god So on March second, Israel closed all

1125
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:03,560
Speaker 4: the crossings, no food, no medicine, nothing allowed in and

1126
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 4: that went deep into May, and that's what drove the

1127
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 4: acute crisis. So you can see his picture before this happened,

1128
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 4: and then you can see after. And what the FP

1129
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 4: would have you believe is that it was his pre

1130
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 4: existing health condition. And we have a vo here that

1131
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:26,440
Speaker 4: we can play too, of him getting a haircut in

1132
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 4: a tent before before the crossings were closed, and you

1133
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 4: can tell he's got some pre you just you can

1134
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 4: just tell.

1135
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 5: You don't even be able to the document.

1136
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 4: You can tell he's got some pre existing health conditions,

1137
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 4: but it was the lack of access to food that

1138
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 4: drove his condition. Now, Muhammad obviously is going to suffer

1139
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 4: things worse than other children, but it's just very clear now.

1140
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 4: At the same time, it's also worth fuller context if

1141
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 4: we want it. So, he was born in December twenty

1142
00:58:57,080 --> 00:59:00,840
Speaker 4: twenty three on during one of the nights of the

1143
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 4: fiercest bombing that they saw in the area where where

1144
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 4: he was born in got City.

1145
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 5: The last two months of.

1146
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 4: Her pregnancy, they were displaced and moving constantly right after Yeah,

1147
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 4: so this is right right, So, and some of the

1148
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 4: most widespread indiscriminate violence was right after October seventh. So

1149
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:30,200
Speaker 4: he's born into that, and you can imagine that there

1150
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 4: could be some slight muscle weakness, which is what he

1151
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:34,280
Speaker 4: had when he was born, and you can imagine some

1152
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 4: neurological condition as well. You know, it's you know, the

1153
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:40,960
Speaker 4: the health of the mother during the pregnancy matters for

1154
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 4: for children. And so rather than kind of lessening the

1155
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 4: responsibility of the siege and the assault on his condition,

1156
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 4: and the further reporting actually strengthened it, and so to

1157
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 4: give even more context, which I think is important.

1158
00:59:58,320 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 5: This is what his mother says.

1159
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 4: I suffered from malnutrition around two months after I gave

1160
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 4: birth to him, and he stopped breastfeeding. At that time,

1161
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 4: his father was still with us and could acquire milk.

1162
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 4: So despite the harsh conditions, Muhammad began growing as a

1163
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 4: healthy child. At one point he was even chubby, and

1164
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 4: we've seen the photos to prove that that's the case.

1165
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 4: On October twenty eighth, twenty twenty four, his father, Zachariah

1166
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:23,439
Speaker 4: was killed in Israeli striking Daryl Oballa, and so now

1167
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 4: his mother is caring for these two children under these

1168
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 4: much more difficult conditions. She writes, I couldn't consistently get

1169
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 4: milk or diapers, but people continued to support me, bringing

1170
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 4: milk from.

1171
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 5: Time to time.

1172
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 4: I was still able to provide food for him until

1173
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 4: the occupation sealed the borders and enforced starvation in March.

1174
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 4: Doing this reporting, in some ways I felt guilty, even

1175
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:52,200
Speaker 4: like asking these families to justify their situation, but at

1176
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:53,640
Speaker 4: the same time it's important to do so.

1177
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:56,120
Speaker 5: Because the Free Press has.

1178
01:00:56,040 --> 01:01:00,720
Speaker 4: Now been bought by Paramount Barry Weiss has been elevated

1179
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 4: to editor in chief of CBS News, and what she

1180
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 4: considers to be proper journalistic tradecraft is now going to

1181
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 4: have the backing of hundreds of budgets and the hundreds

1182
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 4: of millions of dollars.

1183
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 12: That's what drove me crazy about the story originally and

1184
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:22,040
Speaker 12: continuously the story. Now that you all are following up

1185
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 12: on it, it reminds me of your report on the

1186
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 12: Douglas Murray David from speech contributions to Israeli Ambassador as well,

1187
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:36,600
Speaker 12: which is there's a constant drum beat of lecturing from

1188
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 12: many of these same people about journalistic ethics, and that

1189
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 12: is exactly what.

1190
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 1: Happened with this story. They kept on how proud they

1191
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:46,560
Speaker 1: were of this, rewarding the editorial board, their editorial.

1192
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 12: They wrote a Free Press editorial just slamming you, Sagur

1193
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:53,800
Speaker 12: and Crystal I somehow escaped.

1194
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 5: How did you get I don't know, But.

1195
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:00,760
Speaker 12: All that is to say that was a lecture about

1196
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 12: journalistic ethics from people who were engaged in clearly lapsed

1197
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 12: journalistic ethics in the same story, with the same breath

1198
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:14,160
Speaker 12: that other people were being criticized over and it's not

1199
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 12: a matter of like your ideological standpoint on this, like

1200
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 12: if we set that aside, that that is not the

1201
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 12: full and complete picture. The full and complete picture was

1202
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 12: not told in this counter story. And so yeah, I

1203
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:33,040
Speaker 12: think it's it's important that the Washington Post now includes

1204
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 12: the disclosure. I think that's that's good. But getting that

1205
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 12: isn't a concession. Your story was a sort of beacon,

1206
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 12: a paragon of journalistic success.

1207
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 4: And we can quickly go through two others. So another

1208
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 4: one is six year old Nodua who's saying a jag.

1209
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:52,880
Speaker 4: First of all, the Free Press claimed that these were

1210
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:57,640
Speaker 4: all viral images. Even that is extremely dubious assertion. Naj's

1211
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:00,680
Speaker 4: photo was included in a CNN slide show.

1212
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 5: How you define viral?

1213
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 4: I don't know, but it appears more like they just

1214
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:08,600
Speaker 4: went cherry picking any image that was associated with any

1215
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 4: story about starvation and then googled until they could find

1216
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 4: somebody who also had a health condition.

1217
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 5: Looked. I looked it up.

1218
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 4: By the way, there are more cases of child disability

1219
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 4: in Gaza before October seventh than average around the world.

1220
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:25,800
Speaker 4: I think UNICEF has it like like twelve percent averages

1221
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:28,479
Speaker 4: nine or ten percent, so twenty to thirty percent higher

1222
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 4: in Gaza. And you can imagine, well, why would there

1223
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 4: be more childhood disability like in Gaza in a place

1224
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 4: that has been under siege for many decades. So using

1225
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 4: the fact that somebody has a disability against them in

1226
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:47,520
Speaker 4: this case is further under mind by the fact that

1227
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:51,440
Speaker 4: the fact that they have the disability might be related

1228
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 4: to the siege that they that their families living under

1229
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:57,800
Speaker 4: for generations. But so what they found with a Jodge

1230
01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 4: is they found that she had an esophagal condition. And

1231
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 4: the Free press suggests that this esophagal stenosis, rather than

1232
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 4: the imposed starvation, was responsible for her condition. So Maha

1233
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:12,640
Speaker 4: talked to her mother and she says, quote and before

1234
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:14,560
Speaker 4: the war started, we had taken her to the hospital

1235
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 4: and she was diagnosed with esophagal stenosis. Her condition had

1236
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 4: not yet worse, and a surgery was scheduled for December fourth,

1237
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 4: twenty twenty three.

1238
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:23,920
Speaker 5: Quote.

1239
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 4: But of course, with hospitals being bombed, others overwhelmed with victims,

1240
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 4: and a lack of equipment, her surgery was canceled. This

1241
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 4: is when our own war, with her condition began unquote,

1242
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 4: which again stands to reason. If you imagine in your

1243
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:41,120
Speaker 4: own life, if you and your family and your entire

1244
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 4: community are overnight shut off from access to medical care.

1245
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 4: Emergency departments are open if you get if you're a

1246
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:56,960
Speaker 4: victim of bombing or your shot, and then they can

1247
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 4: treat you. But anything scheduled, like they're working on your

1248
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 4: esophagal condition, like that's canceled.

1249
01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 5: It's just not happening.

1250
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 4: And so she started started vomiting, was unable to unable

1251
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 4: to keep things down. In the past, her mother has

1252
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:17,440
Speaker 4: said the supplements and medical fluids had kept her in

1253
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 4: a stable condition despite this situation. But without those supplements

1254
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:26,920
Speaker 4: and medical fluids, then she began to succumb to the

1255
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 4: ravages of malnutrition and she was diagnosed with severe malnutrition.

1256
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:33,120
Speaker 5: Quote.

1257
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 4: We try to secure her proper food for a condition,

1258
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 4: like pured vegetables, yogurt, juice, or soft cheese, but none

1259
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 4: of these were available during the starvation campaign. We couldn't

1260
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:45,080
Speaker 4: secure anything but lentils, and so she was then successfully

1261
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:49,360
Speaker 4: evacuated and since then has gone undergone three surgeries for

1262
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,520
Speaker 4: this condition. But this is what all experts will tell

1263
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:56,920
Speaker 4: you that when when famine hits. It is not the

1264
01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:00,200
Speaker 4: healthiest people who suffer the most first is the people

1265
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:04,040
Speaker 4: who are most susceptible to that.

1266
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:06,280
Speaker 5: And just think about in your own life.

1267
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 4: If that happened, if all of a sudden you're cut

1268
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:12,080
Speaker 4: off from food and medical aid, who would go down first?

1269
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:16,120
Speaker 4: And then imagine somebody came to you and said, well,

1270
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 4: you know, your grandmother had this condition, so why are

1271
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:22,040
Speaker 4: you blaming us? Like you're the one that cut off

1272
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:25,200
Speaker 4: food in medicine, That's why I'm blaming you. It's not

1273
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:28,000
Speaker 4: My grandmother was doing okay even though she had her condition.

1274
01:06:28,760 --> 01:06:31,800
Speaker 4: And finally, one more one of the adults is Hamsa

1275
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:35,160
Speaker 4: Ismail Mishmish, his twenty five year old who'd had a

1276
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:38,480
Speaker 4: lifelong pre existing condition, which I think was obvious in

1277
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:44,080
Speaker 4: the photos of him, and so his brother told dropsite quote.

1278
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:47,480
Speaker 4: Hamsa was born with cerebral palsy and congenital anomalies and

1279
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:50,120
Speaker 4: had lived with this condition for years. We used to

1280
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:52,480
Speaker 4: follow up with doctors and he's survived all these years

1281
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:55,800
Speaker 4: on nutritional supplements and vitamins. During the war, we faced

1282
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 4: difficulties securing the nutritional supplements and it was impossible to

1283
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:01,919
Speaker 4: compensate with fresh food. With the borders closed, and even

1284
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:04,960
Speaker 4: when international aid was allowed in, all we could find

1285
01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:07,720
Speaker 4: was canned food. But in the recent months of starvation,

1286
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 4: his condition rapidly deteriorated and shot. He added that although

1287
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 4: his body did appear thin before the war, quote, one

1288
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 4: can clearly see the difference between how he looked then

1289
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 4: and how he looks now, the recent starvation made us

1290
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 4: completely helpless towards his condition. Food supplements were completely unavailable.

1291
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:27,000
Speaker 4: And then the part that is even more brutal to

1292
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:29,240
Speaker 4: kind of think about living with these conditions, because this

1293
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:33,640
Speaker 4: is difficult enough under the most comfortable conditions, living in

1294
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:35,560
Speaker 4: a nice house with all the access that you could

1295
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 4: have to food and medicine. Anybody who has lives with

1296
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:43,200
Speaker 4: his conditioner or knows somebody who does, it's very difficult.

1297
01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:45,360
Speaker 4: But mis Mish's family added to drop Site that his

1298
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:49,120
Speaker 4: health has been further worsened by the family's conditions and displacement,

1299
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:51,680
Speaker 4: forcing him to live in a makeshift tent after the

1300
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 4: home was bombed.

1301
01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 5: Quote.

1302
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 4: This tent cannot protect him from the scorching heat in

1303
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 4: summer or the freezing cold in winter. In cold weather,

1304
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:01,640
Speaker 4: we cannot keep him warm, so his body developed infections,

1305
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:04,680
Speaker 4: his feet swell, and his entire body weakens. We would

1306
01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:07,439
Speaker 4: need at least three weeks to help him recover from

1307
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:10,720
Speaker 4: these symptoms. All these circumstances combined are why his body

1308
01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:13,920
Speaker 4: has never been the same since the war. So imagine

1309
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:17,080
Speaker 4: this is your family member, and Barry Weise and Olivia

1310
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:20,120
Speaker 4: Ryan Gold come up to you and say it's because

1311
01:08:20,120 --> 01:08:23,519
Speaker 4: of his cerebral palsy that he's in this condition. Like

1312
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:26,960
Speaker 4: he's twenty five years old, we've known him his whole life.

1313
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:33,720
Speaker 4: The condition is because of the siege and the war.

1314
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:38,160
Speaker 4: And to like to even make you like point that

1315
01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:41,599
Speaker 4: out to them is a form of crazy making.

1316
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 12: And again for well, it actually makes the story fuller

1317
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:48,559
Speaker 12: more interesting to know that it's the case.

1318
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:51,080
Speaker 4: And so yeah, one of the ones they cited was

1319
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:53,439
Speaker 4: a fourteen year old who had a piece of his

1320
01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:55,160
Speaker 4: skull removed because.

1321
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 5: He his find is really shelled.

1322
01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:56,599
Speaker 12: Oh my gosh.

1323
01:08:57,200 --> 01:08:59,879
Speaker 4: Oh he had a pre existing condition from getting shelled

1324
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:00,719
Speaker 4: by Israel.

1325
01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:03,400
Speaker 1: Right, like, this is not serious? What are you doing?

1326
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:03,800
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1327
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:07,720
Speaker 12: Yeah, sorry, go ahead, No, no, no, I just I

1328
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:12,720
Speaker 12: think it's all Like even more, it's it enriches the

1329
01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:16,719
Speaker 12: story to know the background, and it makes it clear

1330
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:21,160
Speaker 12: just like the level of the downstream effects. You know,

1331
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:25,360
Speaker 12: we talk a lot about obviously like famine deaths because

1332
01:09:25,400 --> 01:09:29,160
Speaker 12: those are the people have actually died, but also just

1333
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:33,680
Speaker 12: like the downstream consequences of lack of medical treatments and

1334
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:38,600
Speaker 12: food and how that affects you know, the most vulnerable

1335
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:41,320
Speaker 12: among us and has over the last couple of years.

1336
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:44,920
Speaker 12: It's just the tragedy and it's definitely not an own

1337
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:49,799
Speaker 12: or a slam dunk against the outlets that use these images.

1338
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:52,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we can look forward to a lot more

1339
01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 4: of this, I guess now from sixty minutes.

1340
01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:58,800
Speaker 12: We'll see, we'll see, all right, great story, Ryan

1341
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:01,720
Speaker 4: Pott,