1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Cause Media. 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 2: Hello and welcome. Today could happen here a podcast but 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 2: the world falling apart and was mostly just about that 4 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:13,239 Speaker 2: at the minute, but we do sometimes talk about how 5 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 2: to put it back together as well. Joining me today 6 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 2: is Garrison Davis. 7 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 3: Hi. 8 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 2: Garrison, Hello, Hi, and we're on the falling apart theme. 9 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 2: Think so we've been on that one quite a lot 10 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 2: last few weeks, but today we are specifically talking about 11 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 2: the what I'm going to call the rendition of non 12 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 2: US nationals by the Trump administration over the last week. 13 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 2: The reason I'm calling it, I guess rendition and not 14 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 2: deportation is because these people aren't being sent back to 15 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 2: the countries they're from. They are being sent to El Salvador. Specifically, 16 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 2: they're being sent to a place called Second So the 17 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 2: Trump administration has attempted to send three hundred people who 18 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 2: it accuses of being members of a foreign terrorist organization. 19 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 2: We're going to get to how they get there under 20 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 2: the Alien Enemies Act, to a prison in El Salvador 21 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 2: where they will be detained for a year at the 22 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 2: expense of the United States. We're going to break down 23 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 2: exactly how we got there over the course of this episode. 24 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 2: So the Trump administration has accused these people of being 25 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 2: members of two different gangs. The majority of them, there's 26 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 2: two hundred and thirty eight people are accused of being 27 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 2: members of Trend de Ragua. Trind de Ragua is a 28 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 2: Venezuelan gang that the Trump administration recently declared a foreign 29 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 2: terrorist organization. Another twenty three it's accusing of being members 30 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:46,119 Speaker 2: of MS thirteen, which is a Salvadorrean gang. The Trump 31 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 2: administration use something called the Alien Enemies Act to remove 32 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,559 Speaker 2: these people. The Alien Enemies Act, we actually spoke about 33 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 2: it in November of last year when we were looking 34 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 2: at provisions of US law that the Trump administration could 35 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 2: use for its mass deportation gender. This is one we 36 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: spoke about. The Trump administration in the past has been 37 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 2: quite good at finding obscure provisions of the United States 38 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 2: law to exclude migrants. You can hear my whole series 39 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 2: about Title forty two on that. That's kind of the 40 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 2: paramount example. Right. The Only Enemies Act is a two 41 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 2: hundred and twenty six year old piece of legislation. The 42 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 2: last time it was used was to inter Japanese people 43 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 2: during the Second World War. Right, So that's a pretty 44 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 2: shameful part of the United States history, and it's great 45 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 2: that we're going back there. So who are the enemies 46 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 2: in this case? 47 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 4: Right? 48 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: It's generally, like I should probably point out the Alien 49 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 2: Enemies Act is intended for like the people you were 50 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 2: at war with. Right, So if the United States is 51 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 2: at war with let's say Canada, and there are Canadian 52 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 2: citizens in the United States, so people who have dual 53 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 2: citizenship with Canada, and those people that are individuals within 54 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 2: that group are suspected to be spies or suspected to 55 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 2: be like serving the interest in Canada not the United States, 56 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 2: that they could be excluded or detained under the Alien 57 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 2: Enemies Act or sent out of the country, as it's 58 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 2: the case here, and as we saw in this instance, 59 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 2: there is very little recourse to appeal. 60 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 4: Right. 61 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 2: This isn't like a deportation hearing or an asylum hearing 62 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 2: where you have a lawyer representing you, where you have 63 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 2: even a hearing. Right, these people were raudied up and 64 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 2: booted out the country in very short order. 65 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, and like with or without due process, Like we 66 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 3: should not be black bagging people and sending them to 67 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 3: the like Al Salvador labor prison, Right, Like this is 68 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 3: like just doing this at all, even with due process 69 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 3: would already be horrifying. Yeah, the fact that they're just 70 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 3: doing it like without even any like court process entirely 71 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 3: and like trying to like bypass that just adds like 72 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 3: another level to an already like horrifying and you know, 73 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 3: evil and shameful action. 74 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's terrible. I want it defines some of the 75 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 2: categories here. I want to start with Trendy Aragua Spanish 76 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 2: understanders will will notice the word trend meaning train. That's 77 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 2: because they came out of construction unions who were building 78 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 2: trains as part of a Venezuelan infrastructure project in Aragua, 79 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: which is part of Venezuela. There are other Venezuelan gangs. 80 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 2: Trend Deliano is the other one that springs to mind, 81 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 2: which was come from the same place and thus have 82 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 2: similar names, but just people should understand that they're different organizations. 83 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 2: They also have a strong presence of Venezuelan prisons. They 84 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 2: have in the past been accused of doing violence on 85 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 2: behalf of the Venezuelan state. By in twenty twenty four, 86 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 2: my daughter blame them for the protests after his election. 87 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 2: People remember that that election was widely seen as fraudulent, 88 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 2: and I covered that in my series on the Dariant 89 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 2: Gap if people want to learn more about Venezuelan politics 90 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 2: of migration into the United States. In twenty twenty four, 91 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 2: Biden named Trend de Aragua a transnational criminal organization and 92 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 2: then Trump named them a foreign terrorist organization. He labeled 93 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 2: to cartels as ftos as well. At the time, there's 94 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 2: a lot of speculation about why was it to allow 95 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 2: for like drone strikes or co operations. I think we're 96 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 2: now seeing that this was part of this large ploy 97 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:12,919 Speaker 2: of deportation. 98 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 3: Yeah, because like quote unquote terrorists have even less quote 99 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 3: unquote rights than quote unquote criminals. Yes, right, Like it's 100 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, like the like the triangle of like 101 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 3: which which deplorable class has the least about of rights? 102 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 3: Terrorists are always like the ones with the least. 103 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. And we've been doing that for twenty odd years 104 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 2: now with Quantanamo Bay and renditions to Egypt and Syria 105 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 2: and other places. In this case, people are being sent 106 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 2: to Sikot, which is this prison in El Salvador. Sometimes. 107 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 2: Can you spell that, yeah, cecot uh Centro that cult? Yeah, 108 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 2: Seacott I guess. It stands for terrorism confinement, Terrorism detention center. 109 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 2: It is largely referred to as a super prison. Right 110 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 2: it was built in our Bibles. Part of his iron 111 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 2: Fist would be the way you translate. It's iron fist 112 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 2: policy against gangs and against crime, and it has been 113 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 2: widely condemned for human rights abuses. People are crammed into 114 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 2: cells with more than one hundred people, but there are 115 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 2: fewer bunks than there are prisoners, right, so they can't 116 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 2: even all lie down at the same time. The bunks 117 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 2: don't have bedding, they're just flat like metal sheets. They're 118 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 2: four high, so you have to climb over other people 119 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 2: to sleep. For more than one hundred prisoners, there are 120 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:35,239 Speaker 2: two open toilets. That's the only access to a bathroom 121 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 2: that you have. They might be allowed out for half 122 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 2: an hour each day. They're not allowed to communicate with 123 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,799 Speaker 2: their families or the outside world. They're forced to shave 124 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 2: their heads and they all wear white. The lights are 125 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 2: left on all day. As I said that, they're provided 126 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 2: with no bedding, They contact with the outside world, very 127 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 2: little access to anything other than standing in that cell. 128 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 2: There's two bibles in each set. It's the only sort 129 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 2: of entertainment they're allowed. It just sounds like a torture camp, Like, yeah, 130 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 2: this is completely inhumane, right, it's horrific, and for a 131 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 2: couple of years now, but Kelly has been doing like 132 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 2: these media tours of the of p sicot, like using 133 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 2: it to generate content. It's very much designed to generate 134 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 2: this image of like, this is what will happen to 135 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 2: quote unquote, what will happened to you if you're a 136 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 2: quote unquote in a gang. It's sort of been used 137 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 2: to promote his image of someone who's taking an iron 138 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 2: fist to gangs. And as we saw when these people 139 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 2: were sent to our salbad Or, this tendency to use 140 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 2: I don't know what you would call it incarceration as 141 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 2: a way of making content. It was very much the 142 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 2: case here, right, Yeah, I'm going to break for ads. 143 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 2: When we come back, we will be consuming content that 144 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 2: is people being stripped of their human rights. And we 145 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 2: are back, Garrison. Do you want to go ahead and 146 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 2: play this? And so the the tweet in question, the 147 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 2: zet in question, it's by Naibuke, the president of Bel Salvador. Right, 148 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 2: should I read it out? Yeah? 149 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 3: I think you should think it's worth noting that like 150 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 3: this style of propaganda close to the mirrors a lot 151 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 3: of what like DHS and the Trump administration is doing 152 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 3: on their official accounts, a lot of a lot of 153 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 3: the like memified content creation format and like aesthetics being 154 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 3: used to just display like torture and deportations and human 155 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 3: arts abuses is very common among government accounts in the 156 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 3: States right now. It's pretty pretty horrifying to look at. 157 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 3: And this this kind of follows the suit and is 158 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 3: possibly even more bleak. Yeah, but yeah, we should read 159 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 3: read this whole, this whole message and then and then 160 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 3: we'll pribace skip around on the video and talk about 161 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 3: what we're seeing. 162 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'll just read it obviously in turnstand I'm 163 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 2: quoting it hit artly from him. Today, the first two 164 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,239 Speaker 2: hundred and thirty eight members of the Venezuelan criminal Organizeation 165 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 2: trend ragois arrived in our country. They were immediately transferred 166 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 2: to SIKORD, the Terrorism Confinement Center for a period of 167 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 2: one year, parentheses renewable. The United States will pay a 168 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 2: very low fee for them, but a high one for 169 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 2: US over time. These actions, combined with a production already 170 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,599 Speaker 2: being generated by more than forty thousand inmates engaged in 171 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 2: various workshops and labour under the Zero Idleness Program will 172 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 2: help make our prison system self sustainable. As of today, 173 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 2: it costs two hundred million per year. On this occasion, 174 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 2: the US has sent us twenty three MS thirteen members 175 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 2: wanted by Salvatory Injustice, including two ring leaders. One of 176 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 2: them is a member of the criminal organization's highest structure. 177 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 2: This will help us finalize intelligence gathering and go after 178 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 2: the last remnants of MS thirty, including its former and 179 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 2: new members, money weapons, drugs, hideouts, collaborators, and sponsors. As 180 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 2: always who continue advancing in a fight against organized crime, 181 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 2: but this time we're also helping our allies, making our 182 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 2: prison system self sustain and obtaining vital intelligence to make 183 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: a country an even safer place. All in a single action. 184 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 2: They God blessed Sarbador, and they God blessed the United States. 185 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 2: I should probably just add that the US sent three 186 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 2: million dollars to pay for these six million dollars. I'm 187 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 2: sorry to pay for this three hundred prisoners that intended 188 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 2: to send. 189 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 3: The Zero Idleness program is like one of the most 190 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 3: sinister things I've like read recently. 191 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you could put out of a Georgio 192 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 2: well or like old Huxley or something right, and it 193 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 2: wouldn't sound out a place. 194 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 3: It's even even like you know, it's almost cliche now 195 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 3: to point like German work camps, but like. 196 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 2: Come on, yeah, I mean come on, yeah, yeah, that 197 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 2: we were doing it again. 198 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 3: So yeah, we'll probably play a clip of the music 199 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:47,079 Speaker 3: and then I'm going to skip around on the video. 200 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 3: You're can just talk about what we're seeing here. It's 201 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 3: first we have a shot of an airport with three 202 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 3: different planes and people getting rounded up and pushed on 203 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 3: in single file. It has like this like action movie 204 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 3: type music lines of soldiers. 205 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 2: So as as the. 206 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 3: People getting loaded on the plane, they're getting like forced 207 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 3: forced down. There's like people with like guns, police military 208 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 3: like manhandling people pushing their heads down, physically removing clothing. 209 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're showing their tattoos there, right, that's what they're 210 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 2: pulling up his shirt. 211 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, but like even the way that they just like 212 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 3: walk around with these people like like like forcing their 213 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 3: heads almost like their concrete as they make them shuffle 214 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 3: along the ground, just like basic dehumanization shows them getting 215 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 3: transported onto buses. 216 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, so they said, they're arriving at set good now 217 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 2: sort of bright white, very sterile facility. Now they're being 218 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,599 Speaker 2: forced into their knees, yeah, and shaved, getting. 219 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 3: Their beards shaved, heads shaved, getting shackled, all while being 220 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 3: forced onto their knees on the ground. 221 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 2: Then the cops doing this are all wearing I guess balaclavas. 222 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 2: Describe them as face masks and hats. 223 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, all of all of the military police officials are 224 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,959 Speaker 3: trying to hide their identity as they you know, publicly 225 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 3: display the actions that they're doing, as when they're you know, 226 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 3: shaving and holding people's heads up for the camera. 227 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 228 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 3: So it it's it's a lot of that kind of 229 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 3: stuff you see. You see them like pushing pushing people 230 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 3: all in matching white clothes in single file into cells. 231 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is the cell so we spoke about before. 232 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 2: We'll include this link in the in the sources. 233 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 3: It's basically just three minutes of torture porn. Like that's like, 234 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 3: that's what that's what they're doing. 235 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, it's it's it's pretty bleak, honestly. 236 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 3: Like, I don't know what else to say about it 237 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,959 Speaker 3: besides like it's it's just it's just like channeling pure evil, 238 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 3: Like I like it's it's there's nothing else to say. 239 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that. I don't know how anyone will 240 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 2: watch that and think good. So we should talk about 241 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 2: how they're identifying these people, and we should talk about 242 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 2: the process by which they were sent there. ICE policy 243 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 2: says a person could be deemed a gang member if 244 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 2: they office the notes to quote gang membership identification criteria. 245 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 2: One of the criteria that they seem to be using 246 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 2: in this instance is their tattoos. So there are some 247 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 2: gangs that have a process of tattooing to enter the gang, 248 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 2: right MS thirteen Mara Salva structure, it's what the MS 249 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 2: stands for being one of them. These like Mara Central 250 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 2: American gangs have tended to use that in the past. 251 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 2: This isn't really something that happens with Trend de Raguas 252 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 2: as far as I'm aware of. Some people they've pointed 253 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 2: to tattoos of trains in a document the gear found 254 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 2: from the Texas Department of Public Safety, pointing to stars 255 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 2: as evidence that people were part of Trend de Ragua. 256 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 2: So I remember where Trend Dragua does not have a 257 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 2: policy of tattooing people specifically, because this is a thing 258 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 2: that has been used by law enforcement to identify members, right, like, 259 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 2: it would be silly to keep doing that once once 260 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 2: it's become so clear that the state uses that. So 261 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 2: the one sort of case that I've seen legal documents 262 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 2: on of these people, the one name we have one 263 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 2: of these people who's been sent is a man named 264 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 2: Hersirees Barrios. He was a footballer professional football in Venezuela 265 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 2: who protested against my daughter regime, was tortured and detained 266 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 2: as a result. I've spoken to probably I would imagine 267 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 2: thousands of Venezuela and migrants. Right again, I would like 268 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 2: you to listen to my series on Italian Gap if 269 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 2: you haven't, I put a lot into it. All of 270 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 2: these people have stories of watching people be shot, the 271 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 2: brutal repression of protest, state violence, economic collapse, persecution for 272 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 2: supporting the opposition in the country, right and this is 273 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 2: one of those stories. The criteria that they used to 274 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 2: identify him were a tattoo which had a football with 275 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 2: a crown over the top and then the word Dios 276 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 2: God in English underneath raise. Barrios's lawyer says that this 277 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 2: is an homage the logo of Real Madrid, his favorite 278 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 2: football club. They have claimed that it is evidence of 279 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 2: gang membership. That's what the government is claiming here. The 280 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 2: other criteria that they used is a picture of him 281 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 2: like throwing up the horns. I guess which I believe 282 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 2: it means I love you in sign language, I'm not 283 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 2: sure if I's think an urban legend or if that's 284 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 2: the case, and there are obviously different sign languages, but 285 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 2: this is a hand gesture. It's especially common in the 286 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 2: Spanish speaking world. If you're not familiar, I have my 287 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 2: little finger and my index finger extended and my two 288 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 2: other fingers curled up as if I was making a fist. 289 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 3: Almost like almost like a spider man hand symbol. 290 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 2: I guess sure, I'm not familiar, but if you say 291 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 2: so to visually reference for people, if you were making 292 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 2: a little cow like a bulk with your hands, sure 293 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 2: you would be doing your shadow puperty. It's very common, 294 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 2: Like yes, it's a very typical hands It's a thing 295 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 2: that people do when they when they're taking photos, like 296 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 2: I've even seen it, like when you know, if there's 297 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 2: if I'm working with a photographer and they're snapping photos 298 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 2: of larger groups of people. People just do it like 299 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 2: just like people did the peace sign. You know, it's 300 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 2: a thing to do with your hands. Those are two 301 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 2: criteria they use. So I should point out that none 302 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 2: of these people have been accused or convicted of a crime, 303 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 2: either in the United States or in El Salvador. Right. 304 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 2: Even if they had been accused of a crime, even 305 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 2: convicted of a crime, the United States is very unclear 306 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 2: what legal basis they would be to then detain them 307 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 2: in El Salvador. Right, Like, the United States doesn't have 308 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 2: a system whereby we can send people to penal colonies. 309 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 2: At the time of writing, this has been challenged in court. Right, 310 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 2: A district court judge attempted to block the A district 311 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 2: court judge did block these removals. Now, he actually blocked 312 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 2: them before the people had arrived in El Salvador. However, 313 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 2: despite this, the planes didn't turn around. And I'm just 314 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 2: going to quote directly from what the judge said here. 315 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 2: Quote any plane containing these folks and it's going to 316 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 2: take off or is in the air, needs to be 317 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 2: returned to the United States. Then it's another quote later. 318 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 2: This is something you need to make sure he's complied 319 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 2: with immediately. This didn't happen right. The planes went from 320 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 2: the US torndor Salvador. They didn't stop even when the 321 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 2: judge had given this order for them to stop. Now, normally, 322 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 2: in illegal proceedings such as this, right that the government 323 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 2: or one of the parties may not agree with the 324 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 2: findings of the judge and they may choose to appeal 325 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 2: it right, that's very normal. You still comply with the order, 326 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 2: then appeal it right. You don't just keep doing whatever 327 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 2: you feel like doing because you don't think the judge 328 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 2: was right like that. That's in theory, not how this 329 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 2: works now in practice. What means does a judge have 330 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,479 Speaker 2: to force the executive to listen to him? I don't know. 331 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 2: We're not seeing any of them on display at the minute. 332 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 2: The government has cited various reasons for ignoring the ruling. 333 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 2: One of them press Securely Caroline leave It claimed that 334 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 2: there was quote no lawful basis for the ruling. Go 335 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 2: back to my previous statement about how you're supposed to 336 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 2: appeal things. They also claimed in court that a verbal 337 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 2: order is not the same as a written one. That's 338 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 2: not something that's generally understood to be the case, and 339 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 2: that because the flights were over international water, the order 340 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 2: did not apply. This was then part of the foreign 341 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 2: policy powers reserved to the president. That last one is 342 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 2: particularly worrying. You effectively don't have your rights in international waters, 343 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 2: role like humans don't have rights in international waters. 344 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just allowing the US government or the UST 345 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 3: government trying to say that it's allowed to do whatever 346 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 3: it wants if the action is being taken or not, 347 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 3: like immediately on US soil or other foreigns oil. 348 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. So we're going to take another break and when 349 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 2: we come back, we will talk about their response to 350 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 2: this judge is ruling. All right, and we are back. 351 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 2: So Trump's response to this Judge Boseberg's ruling was, I'm 352 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 2: just going to read this is a true social post 353 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 2: aka a truth quote. This radical left lunatic of a judge, 354 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 2: a troublemaker and agitator who was sadly appointed by Barak Hussein. 355 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,479 Speaker 2: Obama was not elected president. M Dash. I'm not going 356 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 2: to say when it's capitalized, just to understand that it's 357 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 2: sporadically capitalized in the fashion that Trump likes to do. 358 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 2: He didn't win the popular vote. Parentheses by a lot 359 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 2: exclamation mark comma. He didn't win all seven swing states, 360 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 2: he didn't win two seven hundred and fifty to five 361 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,880 Speaker 2: and twenty five counties. He didn't win anything. I won 362 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 2: for many reasons in an overwhelming mandate, but fightling illegal 363 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 2: immigration may have been the number one reason for this 364 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 2: historic victory and just doing what the voters wanted me 365 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 2: to do. This judge, like many of the crooked judges 366 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 2: I'm forced to appear before, should be impeached. We don't 367 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,120 Speaker 2: want vicious, violent, and demented criminals, many of them deranged murderers, 368 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:26,959 Speaker 2: in our country. Make America great again, Tom Homan. The 369 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 2: borders are also told Fox News quote, I don't care 370 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 2: what the judges think. 371 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 4: We made a promised to American people. The President Trump 372 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 4: has made a promised to American people. We're going to 373 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 4: make this country safe again. I wake up every morning 374 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,719 Speaker 4: loving my job because I work for the greatest president 375 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 4: in the history of my life, and we're going to 376 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 4: make this country safe again. I'm probably a part of 377 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 4: this administration. We're not stopping. I don't care what the 378 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 4: judges think. I don't care the left. Thanks were coming too. 379 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 2: I just love saying you going through these protestss just 380 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 2: crunching on the apple as they're liberal tiers, just just 381 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 2: floout the hallway. 382 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 3: Tom Holman, thanks so much for joining the program. 383 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:09,199 Speaker 2: You got to think this is open defiance of the courts, right, Like, 384 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 2: I don't really know. 385 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 3: It's what we've been talking about the past month on 386 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 3: executive disorder. How we are just continually like ramping up 387 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 3: this clash between the executive branch and the judicial branch. 388 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 3: The congressional branch has already basically given up all of 389 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 3: their power, and yeah, this is like an actual constitutional crisis. 390 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 3: Very few people are taking this as seriously as what 391 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 3: it should be, and even the courts seem a little 392 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 3: bit tepid to like actually enforce their own power or 393 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 3: like try to. 394 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Boseberg mentioned contempt once from what I 395 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 2: can find on pacer, but like, obviously these judges I 396 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 2: think are somewhat concerned that if they, you know, they 397 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 2: find the government in contempt to court, then what happens 398 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 2: because if you like, yeah, if you play your Trump 399 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 2: card and no one cares, then you have no chives 400 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 2: left to play. 401 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 3: It's it's kind of odd how the judges themselves are 402 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:03,679 Speaker 3: seemingly afraid of like pushing this constitutional crisis into a 403 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 3: explicit territory right to be like what if we do 404 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 3: the thing that then makes it clear to everyone else 405 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 3: like we have no power, like like we actually have 406 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 3: like like it is just authoritarianism via the executive branch. Yeah, 407 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 3: it's almost like they're trying to like backpedal from this 408 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 3: like very obvious accelerationist push of like no, we need 409 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 3: to actually test test this. 410 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 2: Out, yeah, because we need to know where we're at. 411 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 3: Like, and they're scared too, because they're scared what if 412 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 3: what if that testing causes like the Trump side to win. 413 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, but that we're already winning in the in the 414 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 2: absence of testing exactly. 415 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 3: And the problem is that in absence of that, you 416 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 3: were just giving up and letting Trump win. Yeah. Like, 417 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 3: after Trump called to impeach the quote unquote radical leftist 418 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 3: lunatic of a judge who tried to temporarily halt the 419 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 3: the deportation of of these three hundred Venezuelan immigrants, Chief 420 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 3: Justice John Roberts made a rare public statement rebuking calls 421 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 3: to impeach judges for rulings that don't align with political agendas, 422 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 3: and that's as far as they're going. Right now, they're 423 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 3: making rare public statements saying you probably shouldn't call to 424 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 3: impeach a judge. Meanwhile, Musk complaints on Twitter dot com 425 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 3: about a quote unquote judicial coup, and it mistakenly calls 426 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 3: for sixty senators to impeach a leftist to judges. Now, 427 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 3: of course, the Senate does not do impeachments. The House does, 428 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 3: and the Senate requires sixty seven votes to convict it 429 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 3: and remove someone from office once impeached. So haha, we gotcha, 430 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 3: We gotcha. Elon, you made a mistake, We win notes co. Yeah, 431 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 3: it's where we're at right now with this case. We're 432 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 3: recording this. 433 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 2: On Thursday, Bosebag gave them a twenty four our extension 434 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 2: to provide details about the flights. The government has suggested 435 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 2: that it might claim that these are state secrets, despite 436 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 2: the fact that it has widely publicized these flights, including 437 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 2: in the video that we discussed. 438 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, they're turning these into like TikTok is, Instagram real 439 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 3: hype videos. 440 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 2: They're not state secrets publicly. 441 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 3: You're publicly displaying these to show that these people are 442 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 3: not human. Yeah, like you're trying to scare everyone into 443 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 3: saying we decide if you are a person or not, 444 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 3: and if you're not a person, this is what we 445 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 3: can do. 446 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 2: This, we can do whatever we want to. Yeah, it 447 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 2: should be noted as well, there is actually a process 448 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 2: in US law through the Alien Terrorist Removal Court for 449 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 2: the expedited removal of terrorist suspects without revealing classified information publicly. 450 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 2: In fact, Boseberg was chief judge on that court for 451 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 2: five years Jesus Christ. But we are not using that 452 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 2: process where we using the Alien Enemies Act in today. 453 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 2: So yeah, this is in new exciting territory. In On Monday, 454 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 2: so that's the day that you're hearing this, a panel 455 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 2: of judges from the District Court in DC will hear 456 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 2: an appeal by the United States government against Bosberg's attentive 457 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 2: restraining order, the one that it obey anyway, so we 458 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 2: will have more on this and we will keep updating 459 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,439 Speaker 2: you on this and SUF fight it to say that 460 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 2: I guess again, this is a constitutional crisis, Like this 461 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 2: is what it looks like. I don't I don't know 462 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,239 Speaker 2: if people expect like fireworks to go off or like 463 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 2: some confetti to drop and it to be like the 464 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 2: separation of powers is gone. But if the government can 465 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 2: ignore the courts, and that is what is happening. So 466 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 2: I guess we will see in the meantime. These people, 467 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 2: many of whom one of them was a musician, one 468 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 2: of them was a football player, right like. I've interviewed hundreds, 469 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 2: if not thousands, of fens wild migrants, and most of them, 470 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 2: it will shock you to hear, are just people who 471 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 2: don't want to live with the boot of the state 472 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 2: on the neck, people who want to make a decent 473 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 2: living for their their families for what it's worth. None 474 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 2: of the Venezuelan migrants I met in the Daddian Gap 475 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 2: or in the United States or have come to United States. 476 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 2: And my knowledge is for people who are like wondering 477 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 2: how those stories kind of resolve, they resolve with people 478 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 2: currently stuck in Mexico in pretty terrible conditions, either working 479 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 2: for very little or unable to work at all, and 480 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 2: trying to work out what to do. It's pretty bleak 481 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 2: for them, it's pretty bleak for us to if this 482 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 2: is the duration that things are going. I don't ever 483 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 2: have much more to say. 484 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 3: No, I don't know what else there is to say 485 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 3: about them, just bypassing the courts to do a complete 486 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,439 Speaker 3: authoritarian overgrab so that they can send hundreds of people 487 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 3: to essentially like a labor camp black site in a 488 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 3: different country for an unknown period of time without any 489 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 3: legal process. 490 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,399 Speaker 2: Like it's to be clear, not all of these people 491 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 2: even entered the United States between ports of entry, which 492 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 2: has been charged as a misdemeanor. Generally isn't charged. Some 493 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 2: of them came with the CPP one, the fucking app 494 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:50,439 Speaker 2: the thing you're supposed to do. 495 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 3: These are not proven criminals like these these these are 496 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 3: just people some of who immigrated legally and have been 497 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 3: detained by ICE. I don't now shipped off to a 498 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 3: like torture labor prison in a different country where they're 499 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 3: going to stay for at least a year in parenthesis 500 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,160 Speaker 3: renewable so like in death Like it's like. 501 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 2: They can be forced to labor for the rest of 502 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 2: their lives, a thing that has happened before in human history. 503 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 3: No, Like, if you're like history understanders should look at 504 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 3: what's happening and be like, oh, we're doing that again, huh. 505 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 3: And the only way that this ends is with people 506 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 3: getting angry enough to start doing something about it. And 507 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 3: I feel like we are we're so like everyone's become 508 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 3: so complacent that it's even hard to get people to 509 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 3: care or like hear about this sort of thing from happening. 510 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you don't have to be like I want 511 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 2: to phrase this in radical terms that you don't have 512 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,719 Speaker 2: to be like anywhere on the left to understand that, like, 513 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 2: this is an assault on basic human rights. It's just 514 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 2: sort on the foundational principles of the United States government. 515 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 2: And everyone should be said about this. You shouldn't be 516 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 2: a left right issue. This should be like a right 517 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 2: wrong issue. So hopefully you can all have some talks 518 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 2: with your family this week. I don't know, like, I 519 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 2: think it's really important to push back on the idea 520 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 2: that these people have done any crimes, because they have not, 521 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 2: that they have been convicted or found using any reasonable 522 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 2: degree of evidence to be members of gangs like TRENDRAGU. 523 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 3: And even if they have been convicted, they should not 524 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 3: be sent to the Al Salvador Orticer labor camp. But 525 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 3: the fact that they're not even convicted, these are just 526 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 3: random in some cases, like random Venezuelan men who have 527 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 3: been rounded up. 528 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 2: For the crime of having tattoos for the most part, 529 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 2: fucking horrifying. It is petrifying. Yeah, it's happening. It is 530 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 2: happening here. 531 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 3: Every day we're getting closer to the cool Zone as 532 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 3: more and more people start taking this situation seriously. 533 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, take it seriously. You know, advocate for 534 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 2: these people. Best of luck, And if you want to 535 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 2: email us, you can do cool Zone Tip at proton 536 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 2: dot me. That's an encrypted email address, but it's only 537 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 2: encrypted end to end. If you also send from an 538 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 2: encrypted email address, do your due diligence, and yeah, send us, 539 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 2: send us tips if you have tips, ideas, if you 540 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 2: have ideas, and we will be back tomorrow with more 541 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 2: things that are happening here. 542 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 1: It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 543 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 544 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: Coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 545 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 546 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: now find sources for it could Happen here listed directly 547 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.