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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Cardinal Territory.

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Speaker 2: It's Thursday, June twelfth, and the Cardinals were just swept

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Speaker 2: by the Blue Jays yesterday and I'm here to guide

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Speaker 2: you through it. So let's just start the episode by

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Speaker 2: taking one big collective deep breath. Okay with me now

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Speaker 2: inhale exhale, Okay, let's talk about it. It was not

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Speaker 2: a good end to the homestand in Saint Louis, and

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Speaker 2: looking back over the last two weeks, I understand why

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Speaker 2: there is some concern about the state of the Saint

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Speaker 2: Louis Cardinals. Series lost to the Rangers to kick off

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Speaker 2: the month, series lost to the Royals, solid series with

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Speaker 2: the Dodgers, so let's not discount that, and then a

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Speaker 2: pretty big bummer against Toronto the last three days.

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Speaker 1: Here's my hot take, Katie Woo with you for another

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Speaker 1: episode of Cardinal Territory.

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Speaker 2: I know the last series was a sweep, and obviously

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Speaker 2: sweeps bad, but I don't think the series against the

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Speaker 2: Blue Jays has really made things as dire as they seem.

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Speaker 1: The Blue Jays are.

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Speaker 2: Some of the highest contact rate in baseball. They also

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Speaker 2: has it as a team they have one of the

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Speaker 2: lowest strikeout rates. That does not bode well for a

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Speaker 2: high pitch to contact staff such as the Saint Louis

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Speaker 2: Cardinals staff and manager Olie Marmals.

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Speaker 1: Said as much ahead of the series and during it.

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Speaker 2: Here's a postgame quote from Tuesday's ten to nine loss.

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Speaker 2: Allie said, we said it before the series, this might

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Speaker 2: be one of our toughest series. This might be tougher

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Speaker 2: as far as matchups go, than even Los Angeles. Because

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Speaker 2: of the amount of contact this group makes and what

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Speaker 2: we do as a pitching staff. We knew there would

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Speaker 2: be challenges to navigate and Toronto is continuing to show

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Speaker 2: why they're the toughest in the league to strike out.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be a challenge all three days. And

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Speaker 2: guess what it was. From a match pot standpoint, it

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Speaker 2: did not bode well. Going in as a results standpoint

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Speaker 2: didn't go great either. You think about the pitchers, the

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Speaker 2: Cardinals throughout there, Andre Polante, Miles Michaelis, ground ball guys,

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Speaker 2: Matthew Libertire working through some things right now. Now Polonte

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Speaker 2: will get to him through a quality start, did a

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Speaker 2: nice job. Miles Michaelis got soft contacted to death. The

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Speaker 2: results a sweep, but the Cardinals were in two out

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Speaker 2: of the three. So that's why as we sit here

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Speaker 2: and we think, you know, is this the end of

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Speaker 2: the world for the Cardinals? No, I don't think so.

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Speaker 2: I think is this a sign of them regressing to

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Speaker 2: their mean? I actually also don't believe that there are

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Speaker 2: plenty of justifiable concerns right now for this club, and

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Speaker 2: we'll get into that during this episode. But as far

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Speaker 2: as series sweeps go, I'm actually pretty confident in this

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Speaker 2: group's ability to flush it and to move on. And

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Speaker 2: they need to because eleven of their next fourteen games

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Speaker 2: come against Division opponents, including four starting today against the

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Speaker 2: Brewers at American Family Field.

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Speaker 1: So what's next? Great question?

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Speaker 2: You can read this on The Athletic previewed it last night,

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Speaker 2: kind of a series recap here. Three trends to watch

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Speaker 2: after Saint Louis is swept by the Blue Jays, And

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Speaker 2: we'll go ahead and break this article down with some

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Speaker 2: added context within this episode, because this is, if you

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Speaker 2: haven't judged it already, a solo episode. But I just

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Speaker 2: figured as a collective unit, we could probably use a

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Speaker 2: therapy session.

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Speaker 1: So I'm here to try to calm everybody down. Was

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Speaker 1: it a good weekend. Was it a good week series?

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Speaker 1: I mean, no, no, it wasn't.

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Speaker 2: I didn't particularly enjoy it, But I don't think it's

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Speaker 2: time to like totally press the panic button and say, oh,

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Speaker 2: sell the team.

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Speaker 1: You know they're they're not contenders.

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Speaker 2: We'll see how the next four days go against the Brewers,

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Speaker 2: and if it doesn't go well, then maybe we can

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Speaker 2: revisit that conversation. But right now here is what I'm

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Speaker 2: focusing on. We'll start with some injury updates. The Cardinals

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Speaker 2: are preparing to be without Brendan Donovan for at least

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Speaker 2: a couple of days. This he recovers from a sprained

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Speaker 2: capsule in the joint that connects the big toe to

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Speaker 2: the foot.

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Speaker 1: I'm no doctor, but that is what was communicated to me.

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Speaker 2: It sounds a little similar to turf toe, but again

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Speaker 2: that was not the official diagnosis. That was just kind

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Speaker 2: of talking around. Maybe this is a similar thing to

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Speaker 2: kind of base the prognosis on. But I want to

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Speaker 2: be very clear, the Cardinals did not specifically name it

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Speaker 2: turf toe. It's a sprain. Don't think that's going to

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Speaker 2: require an ile stint for Donovan, So that is good news.

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Speaker 2: Donnie said after Wednesday's game that an ile stint would

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Speaker 2: probab will be the worst case scenario and not something

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Speaker 2: that he thinks is necessary at this time. But he

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Speaker 2: is day to day and the Cardinals are preparing to

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Speaker 2: play without him for a couple of days. That's not

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Speaker 2: good obviously. You think about what Donnie has done in

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Speaker 2: that three hole, the tear that he's ben on at

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Speaker 2: second base and at the plate. I mean, he's been

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Speaker 2: one of their rocks this year. So any game without

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Speaker 2: Brendan Donovan is not necessarily.

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Speaker 1: A good thing.

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Speaker 2: If we are flipping to the positives, which is what

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to have this episode be about, it is

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Speaker 2: that this will get more opportunity for Nolan Gorman. With

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Speaker 2: Jordan Walker still on the Andrew list, and we'll get

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Speaker 2: to him in a second. You can roll out a

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Speaker 2: starting outfield of Lars Newbar and left, Victor Scott in center,

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Speaker 2: and Alec Gurlson and right, and put Gorman in at

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Speaker 2: second base, Keith Herrera at the DH.

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Speaker 1: Nolan Gorman has been swinging a much better bat lately.

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Speaker 2: I know that Bernie and I have chronicled the swing

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Speaker 2: changes he's made. Gorman is such a streaky hitter. So

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Speaker 2: the more that Ollie Marble can play him right now,

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Speaker 2: the better. And he is one of the Cardinals right

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Speaker 2: now that's trending in the right direction offensively to those

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Speaker 2: out killers that I just named, Lars Newbar and Victor Scott.

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Speaker 2: The second not so much. I know Lars has looked

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Speaker 2: like he's been going through it lately. Victor Scott same way,

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Speaker 2: especially against lefties. Just trying to figure out how to

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Speaker 2: combat those adjustments. That's going to happen in seasons like this,

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Speaker 2: where you're constantly stressing, throwing guys in the fire and

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Speaker 2: hoping that they figure it out. That's the whole prognosis

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Speaker 2: of the season.

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Speaker 1: We know this, right So.

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Speaker 2: It's frustrating as it is to see new Bar struggle

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Speaker 2: at the leadoff spot right now, Victor Scott scuffling a bit.

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Speaker 1: Give them some time. I really think the series will

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Speaker 1: tell us.

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Speaker 2: A lot about where each individual player is, both from

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Speaker 2: a health perspective like Donnie and from a performance standpoint

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Speaker 2: like new Bar and Victor. Another outfielder, Jordan Walker, starts

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Speaker 2: a rehab assignment with Triple A Memphis down in Gwinette. Today,

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Speaker 2: Cardinals are looking to get him a couple of games,

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Speaker 2: and they didn't necessarily think that he would need a

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Speaker 2: rehab stint to begin with. For those of you who

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Speaker 2: need a refresher, Jordan Walker is dealing with left wrist

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Speaker 2: inflammation when on the injured list during the second game

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Speaker 2: against the Rangers earlier in the month. But the risk

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Speaker 2: wasn't recovering as well as they hoped, so we had

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Speaker 2: to get an inflammation an anti inflammation shot in that risk,

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Speaker 2: which sidelined him for a couple of days and missing

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Speaker 2: a couple of days of baseball activity just made of

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Speaker 2: rehab assignment make more sense.

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Speaker 1: It should not be a lengthy one.

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Speaker 2: The Cardinals are potentially targeting next Tuesday, so Brewers for

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Speaker 2: four off day in Chicago White Sox series. That would

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Speaker 2: be the day the Cardinals are targeting maybe the earliest

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Speaker 2: call up for Jordan Walker.

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Speaker 1: But again they do not believe that rehab since will

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Speaker 1: be super long.

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Speaker 2: It's more about recovering how he feels if he's ready

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Speaker 2: to get back into play. So those are the injury

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Speaker 2: updates for the Cardinals. Could be better, could also be

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Speaker 2: a lot worse. They'll certainly hope to have both Donnie

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Speaker 2: and Jordan walker back healthy as much as possible. All Right,

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Speaker 2: we'll get to the concerns, the long list of concerns

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Speaker 2: that I've seen both in the athletic comment section and

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Speaker 2: the YouTube comment section, and of course my favorite website

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Speaker 2: ever on Twitter. First, though, let's hear from our first sponsor.

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Speaker 2: I'm actually so hungry right now. Took an early ish

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Speaker 2: morning flight to Milwaukee. I'm here by the way in

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Speaker 2: my wonderful Marriotte Hotel room. And for those of you

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Speaker 2: who listen to the show, sometimes I go on little tangents.

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Speaker 2: I love Milwaukee as a road city. It's top three

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Speaker 2: for me, and part of it is because the food

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Speaker 2: scene here is really good. I mean, when you think

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Speaker 2: about their like three food groups, it's like beer, cheese,

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Speaker 2: and more beer, which is also my diet. So it's

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Speaker 2: just a good matchup. I am looking forward to making

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Speaker 2: a quick pitstop before heading.

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Speaker 1: To the ballpark.

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Speaker 2: But let's get to the stuff you really care about.

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Speaker 2: What the heck is going on with Ryan Helsley. Three

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Speaker 2: consecutive blown saves over the home stand. That is pretty

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Speaker 2: uncharted territory for the All Star closer. For context, he

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Speaker 2: blew just four saves all season last year, and granted

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Speaker 2: that was a historically good season.

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Speaker 1: But when you.

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Speaker 2: Have an arm like Ryan Helsley, who has the rapport

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Speaker 2: and the reputation that he does as being one of

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Speaker 2: the best ninth inten arms in the league, when he

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Speaker 2: has ten days like this, three consecutive blown saves, and

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Speaker 2: a year where he just seems to be getting hit

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Speaker 2: a lot harder than he did last year, there is

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Speaker 2: going to be some concern there. So let's really look

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Speaker 2: at the fastball because in conversations that we had with

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Speaker 2: Halsley over the last couple of days, he talked to

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Speaker 2: the media Monday after blowing the save in Monday's five

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Speaker 2: to four loss and ten innings, which I think that

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Speaker 2: was probably the worst game of the series, honestly, because

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Speaker 2: I think the Cardinals really should have.

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Speaker 1: Won that one.

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Speaker 2: I also talked to Ryan on Wednesday before the day

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Speaker 2: game about a little bit more of what he's seen

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Speaker 2: from his fastball. So let's look at the stats here

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Speaker 2: and we'll compare the fastball from last year to this year.

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Speaker 2: So in twenty twenty four, the four seemer averaging ninety

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Speaker 2: nine point six miles per hour.

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Speaker 1: This year ninety nine point one, so really not all

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Speaker 1: that different from veal perspective.

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Speaker 2: The spin is about the same as well, and the

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Speaker 2: usage is about the same.

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Speaker 1: In twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: Four, helsing through the four semer forty five percent of

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Speaker 2: the time, this year forty six percent of the time.

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Speaker 2: So everything there seems to be on track from last year.

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Speaker 2: Which what is different, obviously is the results. Let's look

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Speaker 2: at the batting average the four seemer last year, opposing

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Speaker 2: hitters we're.

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Speaker 1: Hitting two seventy six.

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Speaker 2: This year they're hitting four twenty six and they are

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Speaker 2: slugging five thirty two.

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Speaker 1: That is not good. Now. Granted, some of.

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Speaker 2: It is you can attribute to bad babbit that is

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Speaker 2: batting average on balls in play be avip for those

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Speaker 2: of you who do not know. But even when you

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Speaker 2: take in the babbit peer, the expected numbers aren't really

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Speaker 2: all that better.

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Speaker 1: They're lower, but not that much better.

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Speaker 2: So this year, the expected batting average on Ryan Helsley's fastball.

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Speaker 1: Again, the batting average that counts in.

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Speaker 2: The statistics is for twenty six, but the expecting batting

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Speaker 2: average as we head into play today on June twelfth

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Speaker 2: is three forty three, and the expected slugging is four ninety.

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Speaker 1: Five, so that is also not what you want.

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Speaker 2: I talked to Hellesley and he just said, yeah, I

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Speaker 2: have to figure out what's going on with the basketball.

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Speaker 2: I'm really getting hit hard. He could I switch up

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Speaker 2: the usage a little bit more? Can I use the

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Speaker 2: slider a little bit more to play off?

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Speaker 1: We saw him mixing in his curve ball a little

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Speaker 1: bit more, sure like.

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Speaker 2: But when I'm looking at the usage, it's really not

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Speaker 2: all that different from last year. The only difference is

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Speaker 2: that he's just getting rocked with the fastball and the

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Speaker 2: slider has It's been just as effective, if not more

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Speaker 2: than last year. I mean, opposing hitters are batting less

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Speaker 2: than one hundred off the slider and they have a

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Speaker 2: slugging of less than two hundred. So two completely different

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Speaker 2: pitches here that are working. And the fur seamer was

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Speaker 2: never really supposed to be the strikeout pitch. Obviously, you

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Speaker 2: use the four seamer and the triple digit bilo to

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Speaker 2: set up the slider. And when you have triple digits

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Speaker 2: and a wipeout slider like Brian Helsley, does you get

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Speaker 2: the results that you see most of.

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Speaker 1: Twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: For whatever reason, we're not seeing that right now with

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Speaker 2: Brian Helsley. Now, do I think this is a huge

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Speaker 2: cause for concern, a little bit, but not to the

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Speaker 2: extent where the Cardinals should contemplate a change to the

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Speaker 2: closer role.

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Speaker 1: Not at all. One.

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Speaker 2: He's allowed to have ten bad days over the stretch

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Speaker 2: of a season and a half. Does it make the

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Speaker 2: losses any easier?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: Can you point to the metrics and say, well, he's

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Speaker 2: actually been getting hit hard all season long?

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Speaker 1: You can. I won't disagree with you there.

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Speaker 2: I do think the Cardinals need to figure out the usage,

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Speaker 2: what's going on with the fast why it has been

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Speaker 2: less effective.

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Speaker 1: I'm with you there.

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Speaker 2: I don't think we press the panic button and tear

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Speaker 2: up the bullpen because the closers had a rough stretch.

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Speaker 2: Another reason why I'm saying that is because I don't

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Speaker 2: really know who else they have to close, right Who

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Speaker 2: else is going to come in and close games for

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Speaker 2: the Cardinals. Bill Mayiton's done a nice job, but he

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Speaker 2: doesn't really necessarily have closer stuff. He has eighth and

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Speaker 2: ing setup man stuff, and again he's done a really

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Speaker 2: nice job in that role. Kyle Lay, He's coming back

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Speaker 2: to earth a little bit that's okay, still effective, and

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Speaker 2: Gordon Grisseppo in Memphis right now at the moment unless

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Speaker 2: the Cardinals make a move, But I don't even think

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Speaker 2: he's eligible to be called up today. He has potential,

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Speaker 2: but they're not there. So Ryan Helsley remains the best

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Speaker 2: option to be the closer. What he and pitching coach

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Speaker 2: Dusty Blake need to do is figure out what a

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Speaker 2: better way for the fastball to be more effective. When

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Speaker 2: I talk to Ryan, I'll go ahead and read a

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Speaker 2: quote from that athletic story.

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Speaker 1: He said, I feel good.

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Speaker 2: The execution is good, knowing that my stuff is where

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Speaker 2: he wanted to be and that sometimes in this game

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Speaker 2: guys are going to c I'm trying to do my

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00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:03,719
Speaker 2: best to not let that snowball effect the next day.

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Speaker 2: I'm staying confident in my preparation and just being ready

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Speaker 2: to go when my name is called.

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Speaker 1: Helsley continued.

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Speaker 2: My metrics are good, but right now my babbi is

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Speaker 2: really high. He talked about this, it's almost twice as

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Speaker 2: high as league average. At some point it's got to

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Speaker 2: even out. But I have to continue to trust my

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Speaker 2: fastball and try to locate it a little better. So

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Speaker 2: reasons to be intrigued or encouraged about the fastball is

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Speaker 2: that Helsley is healthy.

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Speaker 1: He feels good.

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Speaker 2: This is not a mechanics thing. This is not his

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Speaker 2: body feeling out of sync. This is not injury related

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Speaker 2: by any means. It's just figuring out a better way

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Speaker 2: to execute, locate, and dominate with the fastball so he

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Speaker 2: can pare it with that cider and hopefully we'll get

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Speaker 2: back to seeing Ryan Helsley numbers. So that's another thing

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Speaker 2: that I'm watching in this series. I actually think again,

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Speaker 2: for as frustrating as that Blue Jay series is, this

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Speaker 2: series against the Brewers, this four game set in which

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Speaker 2: the Brewers just drop two of three, but have been

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Speaker 2: playing so much better ball over the last four weeks,

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Speaker 2: this is going to be a really trying point in

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Speaker 2: this season. I think we'll have a much better sense

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Speaker 2: of the direction of the Cardinals, whether it's the April

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Speaker 2: Cardinals or the May Cardinals, based on this series. So

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Speaker 2: that's why I'm not really trying to overreact to a

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Speaker 2: lot of what we saw in Toronto. Some of it

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Speaker 2: is matchup based. I think Allie Marmal made some great

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Speaker 2: points about the matchups there, but the Division matchup here,

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Speaker 2: four games on the road against Milwaukee with your top

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Speaker 2: four starters.

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Speaker 1: They're going to throw sunny gray today.

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Speaker 2: Eric Fatti, Miles Michaelis, Andre Polante switch that, Andrea Plante.

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Speaker 2: Miles Michaelis, like, these are games. This is a series

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Speaker 2: that the Cardinals need to win if they want to

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Speaker 2: solidify themselves as a true threat in the Division. That's

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Speaker 2: to say nothing about their upcoming home stand three against

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Speaker 2: the red the Reds, four against the Cubs. So that

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Speaker 2: is what I'm looking at from the bullpen perspective. I

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Speaker 2: know there's been a lot of talk about the starting

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Speaker 2: pitching regressing. I can understand that too, and we will

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Speaker 2: get to it. We will talk about it. I promise

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Speaker 2: specifically about Andre Polante first though, a message from Hungary Rout.

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Speaker 3: huge fan of Hunger Rout. They're delivering groceries that we

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Speaker 3: want and groceries that we didn't know we want but

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Speaker 3: we want.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 4: Every box that I get from Hunger Root has a

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00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,320
Speaker 4: new snack in it that I'm like, Oh, this looks interesting,

357
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:10,880
Speaker 4: and then I try it, I'm like, oh, I might

358
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Speaker 4: need some more of those so they're great at not

359
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Speaker 4: only getting the groceries you want, but they surprised you

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Speaker 4: with tasty little treats that you didn't know you needed.

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Speaker 3: Agreed, turkey jerky. There's like a chocolate pudding thing where

362
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Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm not a big chocolate pudding fan that

363
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364
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365
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Speaker 3: or you're looking for a certain diet that you want

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367
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375
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Speaker 1: What is up with our sponsors being only food related?

376
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:03,080
Speaker 2: When I just said and it's lunchtime whatever, that's hungary

377
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,520
Speaker 2: route check them out. Let's check out Andre Polante who

378
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,800
Speaker 2: in case you missed it, Both Polante and Matthew Libertor,

379
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,080
Speaker 2: where I guessed earlier in the week on Cardinal Territory.

380
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,720
Speaker 2: I thought they did a fantastic job. Polante told a

381
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Speaker 2: couple of hilarious stories on how he was a victim

382
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,040
Speaker 2: of a team, an entire team prank in his rookie year,

383
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Speaker 2: and I'm here to tell you three seasons later, he

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Speaker 2: is still the victim of the clubhouse pranks.

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Speaker 1: One thing that I really like.

386
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:30,120
Speaker 2: About watching players as they come up through the miners

387
00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:31,880
Speaker 2: and come to the major leagues is just watching how

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Speaker 2: much more comfortable they get in themselves. And I think

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Speaker 2: Andrea and Livy did a really nice job and showing

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Speaker 2: their true personalities in the clubhouse.

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Speaker 1: But maybe that's just me being soft.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what I do know, Andre Polante is

393
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Speaker 2: not going anywhere. Before his last start against the Blue Jays,

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Speaker 2: I saw a lot of clamor that maybe it's time

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Speaker 2: to send Polonte to Memphis so he can work on

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Speaker 2: some things. And I'm here to tell you, my beloved

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Speaker 2: Cardinal Territory subscribers, I respectfully could not disagree with you more.

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Speaker 1: Let's first back up to what Polante is here to do.

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Speaker 2: We've talked a lot about Matthew Libertor and the runway

400
00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,399
Speaker 2: and the opportunity and all of our favorite words, the

401
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,080
Speaker 2: same does apply to Andre Polante, right like, just because

402
00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,560
Speaker 2: the Cardinals weren't as intentional with Matthew Libertor and rewarding

403
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,479
Speaker 2: him the spot, Palante had that spot and they rewarded

404
00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:18,960
Speaker 2: that to him over the off season based on what

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Speaker 2: he did in the second half of twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: So the same opportunity that's that is being extended to

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Speaker 2: Matthew Libertor is also being extended to Andre Polante.

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Speaker 1: That's the whole point of this season.

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Speaker 2: It's all about adjustments, right We talk about this a

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Speaker 2: lot with opposing hitters, will the same sentiment applies with

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Speaker 2: the pitching staff. We know Andre Polante needs to improve

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Speaker 2: against right handed hitters. We know that has been a

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Speaker 2: big focal point for him this season, and he started

414
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Speaker 2: out doing a pretty nice job. Now the posy hitters

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00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:49,880
Speaker 2: have caught up and made their adjustments, so it's time

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Speaker 2: for Polante to make the adjustments against them, and he's

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Speaker 2: doing that by trying to utilize a better pitch mix.

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Speaker 1: He made a big.

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Speaker 2: Emphasis on Monday and trying to mix in the curve

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Speaker 2: ball a lot more. And that was something that he

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Speaker 2: said after the game candidly and also on the last

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Speaker 2: episode of Cardinal Territory, that he had.

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Speaker 1: Some aversion towards doing in his career.

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Speaker 2: He had always found success as a soft contact, pitched

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Speaker 2: to contact, groundball kind of guy, and he was hesitant

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Speaker 2: to kind of stray away from the things that initially

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Speaker 2: brought him success in the major leagues.

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Speaker 1: But here's the thing about the major leagues.

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Speaker 2: The more he continue doing something, the more your opponent

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Speaker 2: is going to figure out that that's your mo and

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Speaker 2: then you have to adjust. So Polante there's finally a

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Speaker 2: breakthrough there that he needs to utilize the better pitch

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Speaker 2: mix if you want success against writings.

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Speaker 1: So he's trying to incorporate the curve ball a lot more.

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Speaker 2: It did a really nice job On Monday, Rocky Start

436
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Speaker 2: gave up a lot of hits in the first two innings,

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Speaker 2: but posted a quality start, allowed two earned runs over

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Speaker 2: six innings against that Blue Jays team, and I thought

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Speaker 2: did a really nice job of making those adjustments. He

440
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,560
Speaker 2: cannot make those adjustments in triple A because he doesn't

441
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,160
Speaker 2: have anything to prove against triple A hitters. He needs

442
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,879
Speaker 2: to learn how to make those adjustments against major league hitters,

443
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,280
Speaker 2: and both Livy and Polante talks about this in that

444
00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,840
Speaker 2: Fire episode. The draft difference in talent from the Triple

445
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:03,720
Speaker 2: A level to the major league level dramatic. You cannot

446
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,400
Speaker 2: replicate the major leagues, So sending Polante down to work

447
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,280
Speaker 2: on things does nothing for him. He needs to work

448
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,479
Speaker 2: on things at the major league level. Transition season. That

449
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,240
Speaker 2: that's what this year is for Another thing that I heard,

450
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,920
Speaker 2: I'll bring put Polante in the bullpen. Maybe he could

451
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 2: be a bullpen arm and bring McGreevy up. Everybody wants

452
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,840
Speaker 2: to see Michael McGreevy. I want to see Michael McGreevy.

453
00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:27,240
Speaker 2: Allie Marma wants to see Michael McGreevy. John Mozaeyloc wants

454
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,520
Speaker 2: to see Michael McGreevy. We know why he's not here.

455
00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,760
Speaker 2: If you put Polonte in the bullpen and bring McGreevy up,

456
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 2: you are once again at risk of depleting your starting

457
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,160
Speaker 2: pitching depth. I don't know if you guys have seen

458
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,320
Speaker 2: what's going around the major leagues right now, the starting

459
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:42,160
Speaker 2: picturing injuries.

460
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:43,840
Speaker 1: It's a huge problem.

461
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:45,800
Speaker 2: And the Cardinals are one of the very very few

462
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:49,119
Speaker 2: teams where a knock on wood a thousand times that

463
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,400
Speaker 2: I have not had that problem. And that's a testament

464
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,480
Speaker 2: to the pitchers taking care of their body. That's a

465
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,919
Speaker 2: testament to the Cardinal's strength and medical team. That's a

466
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,640
Speaker 2: testament to Allie Marmel and Dusty Blake and their usage plans.

467
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,199
Speaker 2: And also it's a little bit of luck. So you

468
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,879
Speaker 2: can't put Polonte in the bullpen. One, you're depleting your

469
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:04,680
Speaker 2: starting pitching depth.

470
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:05,520
Speaker 1: Two.

471
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,040
Speaker 2: If the whole goal the season is to see if

472
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,160
Speaker 2: Polante can be a starter, what do you accomplish by

473
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,359
Speaker 2: moving him to the bullpen. So he's not going anywhere,

474
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:16,199
Speaker 2: He's going to continue taking those starts. Are we going

475
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:17,680
Speaker 2: to see Michael McGreevy again soon?

476
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 1: Yeah? Probably.

477
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 2: He was optioned after his spots start against the Dodgers,

478
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 2: where Bernie and I talked about it was a pretty

479
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,160
Speaker 2: decent start, saw a lot, made a good a lot

480
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,960
Speaker 2: of adjustments and performed pretty well against the reigning World

481
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,480
Speaker 2: Series champions, the Los Angeles Dodgers. Cardinals optioned him the

482
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,880
Speaker 2: day after, like we speculated he would, so they could

483
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 2: bring him a fresh bullpen arm. He'll be eligible to

484
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,479
Speaker 2: be recalled I believe June twenty fourth, which is the

485
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 2: second day of the four game set between the Cubs

486
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 2: and the Cardinals. I asked Ollie marmal if that was

487
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,800
Speaker 2: intentional optioning him as early as possible so they could

488
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:49,240
Speaker 2: use him against the Cubs.

489
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 1: And he said that did play into their plans.

490
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,920
Speaker 2: He did not say if mcgey would specifically take that start,

491
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:55,280
Speaker 2: but that remains an option.

492
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 1: We will see Michael McGreevy.

493
00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,199
Speaker 2: Most likely, Cardinals have an off day on Monday and

494
00:20:59,240 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 2: then they play.

495
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,119
Speaker 1: I pull up my calendar hold on.

496
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,679
Speaker 2: Every single day until July third, so that's a stretch

497
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 2: of over two and a half weeks. They will need

498
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 2: a spot starter there. Michael mcgreeby makes all the sense

499
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,680
Speaker 2: in the world for that. So Plante is not going anywhere.

500
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 2: Michael McGreevey probably coming back up to make another spot start.

501
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,359
Speaker 2: Matthew libertore a little bit of regression. That's gonna happen.

502
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 2: It's about how he bounces back. I hear you about

503
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,439
Speaker 2: the Cardinals pitching staff, and that's why, again, not to

504
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 2: make too much out of this Brewer series, but I

505
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 2: do think it's that important. That's when we can really

506
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 2: definitively say are they regressing or did they just have

507
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:36,040
Speaker 2: a bad couple.

508
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 1: Of turns through the rotation. So that's where we're.

509
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 2: At, all right, last segment, it's middle of June, but

510
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 2: it's never too early, apparently to talk about.

511
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:50,640
Speaker 1: The trade deadline.

512
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:52,399
Speaker 2: And up at the Athletic we have a ton of

513
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,120
Speaker 2: trade deadline primers, not just Cardinals related, but over half

514
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 2: the teams there are early storylines to watch about the

515
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 2: trade deadline. We'll talk over this briefly because again I

516
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 2: am starving, but it is much truarly to say what

517
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 2: the Cardinals are going to be, if they're going to

518
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:13,119
Speaker 2: be buyers or sellers or the lesser used version or

519
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,680
Speaker 2: phrase but still relevant the holders. And it's very much

520
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 2: going to depend on the next six weeks and how

521
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 2: they play. John Mosee la casaid all along he wants

522
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 2: to make or he hopes to have to make, difficult

523
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,639
Speaker 2: decisions come the trade deadline, which is scheduled for July thirty, first,

524
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,680
Speaker 2: five pm Central time, And if the Cardinals keep winning,

525
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,920
Speaker 2: those decisions are going to be much more difficult. If

526
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 2: they lose, I you know, maybe concretering back to five

527
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,119
Speaker 2: hundred or below which I don't think is in the

528
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 2: realm with possibilities, but I could be wrong. Then the

529
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 2: decisions become a little bit more easier, and you look at,

530
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 2: how you know, offloading maybe some talent that's unexpiring deals,

531
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 2: You look at if it Eric Fetti or Stephen Mattz

532
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 2: has trade value. You make a big decision about Ryan Helsley,

533
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 2: and we talk about that in this story. For all

534
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 2: the clamor of the Cardinals ney to trade Nolan Arnado,

535
00:22:58,760 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 2: I ask.

536
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 1: You, did you learn that from the off season? It

537
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 1: is not going to be that easy.

538
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 2: But I'm sure they would revisit that Right now, though,

539
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 2: we just kind of have to sit here and wait patiently.

540
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 2: The next four weeks heading into the All Star break

541
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 2: will tell us a lot about Moe's plans. Some things

542
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,640
Speaker 2: I do want to clear up, though, and we talk

543
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 2: about it in the story. John Moseylac is still very

544
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 2: much in charge.

545
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 1: Oops.

546
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 2: John Moselac is still very much in charge of the

547
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 2: trade deadline. Him Bloom, while taking over in twenty twenty six,

548
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 2: remains available for consultation, but it's.

549
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 1: Always been twenty twenty five. Moe's in charge of the

550
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 1: major league team.

551
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 2: Bloom is in charge of the minor leagues and player development.

552
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 2: What makes things tricky as as the Cardinals balance runway

553
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 2: results during the season.

554
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 1: Moe is also going to.

555
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 2: Have to do that at the trade deadline because it's

556
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 2: not just this year's club that he has to worry about.

557
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 2: He also has an entire future of the organization that

558
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 2: will not be his responsibility, and the last thing he

559
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 2: wants to do is make this transition period difficult for

560
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 2: him Bloom.

561
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 1: At the same time, do you think John Zaaleac wants

562
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: to go out a seller? I don't.

563
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 2: So it's fascinating, it's fun. Let's flush the Blue Jay series.

564
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 2: Let's focus on the Brewers. I really enjoy the Cardinals

565
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 2: Brewer series. I think it's very competitive.

566
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 1: The Brewers. You can never count them out. They're sneaky,

567
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: they're athletic. It will be a.

568
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 2: Solid showing for the Cardinals if they can take three

569
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 2: of four from their Thanks for sticking with me.

570
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 1: Dusty Blake is our next guest.

571
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 2: That episode should come out at some point Friday afternoon

572
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 2: before the night game. Well, take a deep breath. It's

573
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 2: a new series, it's a new week. We're not at

574
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 2: the panic level.

575
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: Yet.

576
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,199
Speaker 2: If we happen to be, Bernie and I will happily

577
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 2: walk you through it at the end of the weekend.

578
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 2: All right, stay safe out there, enjoy the series, and

579
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 2: we'll be back soon.

580
00:24:40,600 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 1: Thanks for watching something st