WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: The History of Area 51 - Part Two 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:12.559 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. Hey, Laron, 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:15.960 Welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:18.480 an executive producer with iHeart Radio and I love all 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:22.280 things tech. It is time for a tech Stuff Classic episode. 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:27.000 This episode is actually a continuation of last week's classic episode. 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:31.639 This one published on September two, thousand fourteen. It is 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:35.559 titled The History of Area fifty one, Part two. So 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:38.159 if you haven't listened to last week's classic episode, you 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:43.199 should probably do that first. Area fifty one is it 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:46.640 feels it feels like it's ironic to say this a 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:52.280 famous secret facility, And so we kind of go through 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:58.160 more about how Area fifty history unfolded in reality and 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:02.840 really focusing on the well documented events that occurred at 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:06.920 and around Area fifty one. Hope you enjoy The way 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:09.120 history works is we like to think of it as 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:11.120 there's a beginning, middle, and end of each thing, and 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:12.880 then the next thing has a beginning, middle, and end 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:16.200 when really everything is overlapping everything else. Yeah, it's that's 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:19.080 that's exactly right. And I'm glad you said that. I 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:22.039 was thinking about that earlier this week. If you've ever 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:26.080 looked up historical characters who who lived in the same 0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:30.280 time period. It's it's fascinating. Yeah, and it can get 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:33.759 really confusing really fast. Right, It's it's hard. It's hard 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:39.080 to communicate how complex history is because we work really 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:43.120 well understanding narratives. Right, but when you when you weave 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:46.800 in so many narratives, that becomes like the ultimate Quentin 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:50.640 Tarantino film. You can get lost. Yeah, but you are 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:55.800 an explainer, extraordinary, how about that? So, so, I think 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:59.680 that you can easily guide us through some stuff that 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:02.040 might be might be a little confusing if you get 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:04.720 it all at once, but take us through point by point, 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:06.920 because I'll be honest with you, man, we're getting to 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:09.320 my favorite part of the story. Yeah, here's here's where 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:12.880 things get a little weird. Um. So, we had talked 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:15.920 about the A twelve that had started. The first A 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:20.280 twelve arrived at Are fifty one in nineteen sixty two 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:22.799 and wouldn't really be tested until the following year. That's 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:27.160 when pilots trained by the c i A or pilots 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:30.799 who had joined the CIA, began to test these these 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:34.240 aircraft at that same time, all the way back in 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:38.680 nineteen sixty two. You had a project that ended up 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:42.160 being called the D twenty one. That twenty one, by 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:44.639 the way, where that number come from, Well, they had 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:47.080 the A twelve and they figured having like an A 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:49.400 twelve and a D twelve would be really confusing, so 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:52.120 they just they just transpose those numbers to the A 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:54.640 twelve and the D twenty one. This is when you 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:58.440 realize how capricious the naming systems are. It's just you 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:00.960 eventually like, ah, you know, I always thought those letters 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:04.720 of numbers really had special designation. Not all the time. Oh, 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:08.080 here's an idea, Jonathan. We if we end up ever 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:12.040 doing top secret government work, I I hope that you 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:13.880 and I could both threw our names in the hat 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:16.360 to be the people who make up the code names. 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:20.760 That'd be fantastic. And yeah, and and ultimately people will 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:22.800 fear us because they know that if they if they 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:24.760 do not please us, we will give them the worst 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:29.040 code names. Yeah. Yeah, Also, uh, going back to it, 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:32.680 sorry for that. Uh it's called the D twenty one 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:35.800 instead of the A twelve. Then we know they transpose 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:39.840 numbers to avoid, uh, to avoid too much similarity. But 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:43.360 what's this D twenty one about? So this is this 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:46.040 is where things are are pretty amazing. And the D 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:50.440 twenty one was an unmanned vehicle. It was meant to 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:53.400 be a spy plane that would not require a human 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.320 pilot behind the controls. I mean, there would be a 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:59.640 pilot controlling it, but they'd be controlling it remotely on 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:03.120 the ound. So we are talking about this not an 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:05.040 autonomous vehicle. I don't want to go so far as 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:07.560 to say it's like some sort of robotic super thing 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:10.960 that happened in two but we're talking about a remote 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:15.680 controlled aerial vehicle that was essentially a jet. I mean, 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:19.520 it's it was not like it was that much smaller 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:21.560 than some of the other aircraft were talking about. It 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:24.080 wasn't It wasn't like the size of a drone. You 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:26.000 might go and get one of those little quad copters. 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:30.640 It was significantly larger than that. It was amazing to 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:34.239 me that it was this early. Now the reasons behind 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:36.960 developing it make a lot of sense, because if you 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:39.800 have a manned vehicle, then clearly you have a human 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:43.800 life at risk whenever that vehicles in operation. Even if 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:47.320 first we have to consider the fact that flying is 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:49.800 can be dangerous. Flying a spy plane in particular, can 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.839 be dangerous because the design may mean that it's difficult 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:55.839 for you to have it take off or land safely, 0:04:55.920 --> 0:05:01.120 even if there's no enemy uh interference whatsoever during the mission, right, Yeah, 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:06.239 and if you have to conduct evasive maneuvers, then there's 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:08.839 not really a nice way to say it. You're in 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:11.400 a lot of trouble. Yeah, I mean the we already 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:13.960 mentioned in the previous episode that the YouTube plane is 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:18.760 notoriously difficult to fly. So just with that alone, if 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:21.280 you were able to have an unmanned version where you 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:24.640 could get that same sort of reconnaissance ability but you 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:28.039 don't put a pilot's life in danger, that's good. But 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:31.480 on top of that, there's another reason that's that goes 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:33.680 back to safety, but it's more about the safety of 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:37.400 the country and not the pilot. Yeah, which means that 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:40.080 if you have one of these aircraft and it's unmanned 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:44.679 and it's shot down, there's no pilot. For the folks 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:46.600 who shot down the aircraft, there's no pilot for them 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.479 to capture and interrogate, so they're not going to get 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:53.279 any other information apart from the actual workings of whatever 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:55.719 the device was. So they might see that, you know, 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:57.760 what kind of engine you're using or whatever, what sort 0:05:57.800 --> 0:05:59.920 of technology made it work, But they're not going to 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:02.080 have a person that they can say, all right, how 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:04.839 many other operatives are in the area, where did you 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:08.920 fly from? Yeah, so that also, I mean, it's not 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:13.440 completely um, it's not just something that's in concern for 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:17.119 the pilot's well being. Uh, it's also a national security issue, 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:20.279 which you know, it's not pleasant to talk about, but 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:23.000 it's certainly something they had to keep in mind. And 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:29.120 at this point sixty two, they're developing this early nineteen sixties. Uh, 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:32.880 the USS are already knows about the you tube, and 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:36.719 they're on the lookout for these vehicles I almost say creatures, 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:40.320 but look out for these planes absolutely. And so this 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.799 one in particular, was it was an an ambitious project. 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:48.200 It wasn't just an unmanned drone, which already like I 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:50.520 always think of the quad copters. It's just because the 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:54.320 quad copters is such a popular consumer drone right now, 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:56.400 and it's also kind of the design that we're seeing 0:06:56.480 --> 0:07:01.080 for stuff like the proposed Amazon delivery drones. This was 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:04.839 this was a ramjet engine drone. We're talking about a 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:09.680 super sonic vehicle. It's not meant to travel and speeds 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:12.600 lower than that. In fact, you couldn't have this take 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:16.240 off from a regular landing strip, you know, or or 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:20.160 a runway. You had this mounted to a separate vehicle, 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:23.560 like an A twelve. The A twelve would travel and 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.480 start to reach supersonic speeds, and from that point you 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:31.480 would then launch the D twenty one, which would already 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:34.600 be traveling at a superspeed, know, a sonic supersonic speed, 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:37.920 and it would just go from there. So this meant 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:44.240 that they had a pretty risky launch sequence. I mean 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:47.200 it meant you already had an aircraft that was manned 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:49.520 that had to be traveling at this incredible speed before 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.840 you even launched the unmanned vehicle during the test that 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:57.080 the drones would actually land slash crash, usually on a 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:01.000 nearby mountain, uh near Groom Lake during the actual tests, 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:04.800 and so to retrieve it, they would send out another aircraft, 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:07.480 usually I guess a helicopter, because it had to have 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:10.840 some hovering capabilities, and they had para jumpers, but the 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.600 jumpers wouldn't parachute. What they would do is they would 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:18.400 lower down on lines from the aircraft hook the drone. 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:20.560 You know, it had some you know, they would attach 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:22.800 the line to the drone in some way, and then 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:25.960 they would essentially tow the drones back to the facility 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:29.640 so that you just didn't have these unmanned vehicles crashed 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:31.400 on the side of mountains, which I'm sure would fuel 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:34.720 even more speculation if they had been found by civilians, yeah, 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:41.320 or god forbid, a rival government. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:45.040 so they were a cool idea, but like I said, 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:48.040 it was really dangerous and kind of impractical. There's a 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:51.520 high rate of attrition for these vehicles, just because I mean, 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:56.160 think about it. We just named four big ifs in 0:08:56.280 --> 0:09:00.880 the takeoff, if the twelve survived, if the pilots cool, 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:03.960 if it reaches the you know, if it reaches the 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:08.040 speed sufficient to deploy, and if it deploys successfully. Yeah. 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:12.800 And unfortunately, there was an accident in nineteen sixty six. 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:17.040 It was a catastrophic failure. The drone, which I believe 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:21.840 was top mounted onto an A twelve uh, ended up 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:24.880 tilting downwards instead of upwards when it took off and 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:29.520 cut the plane in half. Now, the two pilots inside 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:32.400 that plane at this point, the the twelve was over 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:35.600 the Pacific Ocean. It had flown out over the coast 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:39.120 of California. The two pilots aboard the A twelve were 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:43.479 able to eject successfully. However, one of the two tragically 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:47.920 got caught up in his parachute line and drowned in 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:52.120 the ocean. The other one had been rescued successfully. And 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:55.760 the story is that Kelly Johnson, we talked about him 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.520 in the first episode about Area fifty one. He's the 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:02.640 guy from Lockheed who very much was the head of 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:06.319 development at Area fifty one, this guy who designed the 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:12.120 YouTube plane. Well, Kelly Johnson was so horrified at this accident. 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:15.160 I mean, he really personally took it very very hard. 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:20.200 That he reportedly shut down the project and then returned 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:24.440 the project funding to the Air Force and the CIA, 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:27.720 which is sort of unheard of in the world of contracting. Yeah, 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:31.040 that I had heard that. The phrase I read was 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:36.960 emotionally and impulsively returned the funding. So I mean it 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:39.600 was clear that he truly cared about the people who 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:43.040 were working for him. So um, And that's something I 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:45.199 think that's also important to remember is that we often 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:49.040 in these stories we d personalized, dehumanize the folks who 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:51.600 are involved in it. Because so much secrecy is there, 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:54.360 we don't really know that much about the people involved. 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:58.000 But these are people, right, and they're probably friends. They 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:00.960 hang out, they probably eat together, things like you would 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:03.640 do with your friends. Yeah, So it's it's good to 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:08.400 have this, this touchstone to just remind ourselves that while 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:10.760 we're talking about this, and while it lends itself to 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:15.960 the whole discussion of shadowy government projects, ultimately we're not 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:22.400 talking about these giant organizations that are somehow sentient on 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:26.760 their own and acting without direction, their actual people behind, 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:31.600 not some faceless octopus. But no, that's that's the S 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:36.280 four facility, not area right, faceless octopus lake. Look it up, 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:40.079 you know the that got a little love Craft dift. 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:44.160 That's fair. So in nineteen six seven, a big thing happens, right, 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:48.600 because the mission that we have always been trying to 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:51.839 avoid in the United States at this time is to 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:57.200 never have an aircraft captured, right. But conversely, we want 0:11:57.200 --> 0:11:59.600 to capture aircraft, right, and in fact we were able 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.720 to do that. The very first MiG twenty one plane 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:05.560 arrived at Groom Lake. So that's a Soviet aircraft. This 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:10.680 is then the era of the USSR UM. You know, 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:12.920 I I grew up in the eighties, so I grew 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:16.400 up when the USSR was still a thing. And even 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:20.040 at that point, even maybe especially in the eighties, something 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:23.200 like the thought of a MiG twenty one being in 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.080 US hands was a big big deal because it meant 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:29.440 that we could see what are our opponent in the 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:31.840 Cold War was capable of. You could see what the 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:35.160 military capabilities of this aircraft were. And it meant that 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:38.440 the Area fifty one became a testing ground not just 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:41.960 for developing technology here in the United States, but also 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:45.640 for foreign technology, so that we could really understand what 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:49.680 the capabilities were and therefore design our stuff to meet 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:53.319 and exceed those capabilities. So it becomes kind of this 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:56.959 this game of uh, they get one square ahead, then 0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:59.120 we have to jump two squares ahead, and and what 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:00.880 are they able to do? In what can't they do? 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:05.760 And we're continually verse engineering. Right. So, with the arrival 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:08.840 of Soviet aircraft at the Groom Lake facility, because this 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:10.719 MiG would not be the only one, there would be 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:14.040 other Soviet aircraft that would join it throughout the years, 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:17.720 the pilots begin to have a new name for the 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:20.880 restricted airspace, which in our last episode you may remember 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:24.040 we talked about being the groom box or just the box. 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:28.240 Now it's called Red Square because now it is the 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.680 space the one place in the United States where you 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:34.880 might see Soviet aircraft lying overhead. And again that starts 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:38.520 to fuel a lot of conspiracy theories, because you'd see 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:41.960 a jet that doesn't look like anything you would have 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:45.480 seen here in the US, and you see it fly overhead, 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:48.319 and you wonder, what the heck was that thing, and 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:50.679 and that starts to you know, you start to fill 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:52.240 in the blanks as much as you can. And if 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:59.040 you're a veteran, then you say, uhlane, you go back 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:02.000 to your to your your house, and you sit down 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:04.120 your typewriter and you type up the first draft of 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.600 Red Dawn, which one of us would reach that first. 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:14.320 But of course with this they immediately begin uh retooling 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:17.960 and working on new iterations of stealth craft. Right, right, 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:22.960 so they're earlier there. Earlier plan had been reduced radar footprint, 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:26.160 but mainly go go so fast that people can't shoot 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.120 you down right. You know, that's a pretty simple plan, 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:32.000 but it can be really effective. However, it can mean 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:34.160 also that the aircraft itself is really dangerous, so they 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.840 start looking at other ways of creating stealth technology, and 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:41.160 engineers over at Lockheeds start to develop something called Have 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:45.120 Blue which was a stealth aircraft, and it was a 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:48.800 proof of concept aircraft. It wasn't meant to be a 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:52.960 full production vehicle. Only to Have Blue aircraft were ever made, 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:56.800 and they started as kind of ended up being a 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:01.320 predecessor to the F one seventeen Nighthawk, which has another 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:05.000 name that became famous in the early nineties that would 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:08.320 be the stealth fighter. So this is the even though 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:10.640 it was not really a fighter by the way, just 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:12.480 the seal craft it was meant to. It was meant 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:15.840 it was that air took around combat vehicle, not an 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:17.920 air to air vehicle, which is what you would typically 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:21.640 call a fighter, versus what the stealth what the Nighthawk 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:24.400 actually was. So, and this is the one that if 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:26.280 you look at the pictures that has all those crazy 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.520 funky angles on it that are meant to deflect radar 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:34.400 so that the returning radar signals don't go back to 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.520 the receiving station, which means that the receiving station doesn't 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.440 get an accurate representation of where the aircraft is. Right, 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:45.720 they get something, but it's not anything you can concretely trace, 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:49.680 and hopefully in theory, not something you can shoot at. Right, right, 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:53.120 that's the whole point of it. So they have blue aircraft, uh, 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.680 is that that predecessor, And so a lot of stealth 0:15:56.680 --> 0:16:00.400 technology was pioneered at Area fifty one Spade in the 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:02.960 testing phase, because again a lot of this stuff would 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:06.400 end up being built at Lockheed's other facilities and then 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.760 transported over to Area fifty one for testing. We'll be 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:12.240 back with more about the history of Area fifty one 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:15.320 in just a moment, but first let's take a quick break. 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:26.800 Now we're gonna skip ahead quite a bit. That was 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:30.240 seventy seven with they have blue aircraft and eight two 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:36.600 you have Tacit Blue, which it does? It does Tacit Blue. 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:39.320 Come on, let's go fight the kaiju um. It's a 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:41.840 still aircraft that was developed by Northrop. So this one 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:45.360 was not a Lockheed aircraft, was a Northrop aircraft and 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:49.000 that's also tested room like. Only one was ever built 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:52.760 and it was retired in nineteen eighty five. So from 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:56.480 two to eighty five this thing existed. Now we didn't 0:16:56.520 --> 0:17:01.280 know about it until nineties six, so this thing had 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:04.280 been out of commission for more than a decade before 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:06.840 the government said, oh, by the way, yeah we had 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:10.080 this thing. It was a forerunner of the stealth technology 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:13.720 that we use today. It's called Tacit Blue, and guys, 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:17.000 you know, this is an audio podcast, which in some 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:18.840 ways is great because it means you can listen to 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:20.960 it whenever you're doing anything like jogging or driving and 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.640 you're not missing it out on anything. But it also 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:26.400 means that we can't do it justice by saying this 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:32.199 thing looks weird. Go google tacit Blue and take a 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:34.439 look at this aircraft, because it does not look like 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:38.960 other aircraft. It just it's very oddly designed and shaped. 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.840 So it certainly can tell you that the experiments and 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.280 stealth technology were uh, they went in all sorts of 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:50.960 you're looking at it right now, aren't you, isn't it? Yeah? 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:55.639 It looks like if you've seen a sci fi film 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:59.320 made in the seventies about how crazy the two thousands, 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:02.200 so you're gonna be yea they would fly. You could 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.639 see that plane flying overhead during clockwork orange. Oh yeah, 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:09.000 because with all the white uh, the white furniture that's 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:14.040 in that. Yeah. So in nineteen eighty four, Area fifty one, 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:17.600 the Groom Lake Facility petitions Congress for an additional eighty 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:22.480 nine thousand acres of land. Meanwhile, you've got armed guards 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:26.520 who patrol the area, essentially patrolling that additional eighty nine 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:29.879 thousand acres, turning people away, even though it wouldn't be 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:33.680 till seven that the request would actually be approved by Congress. 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:37.000 So technically they were kind of acting like the land 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.399 was theirs before it officially had become theirs. And you 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:43.800 might wonder, well, why were they asking for all this land? 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:46.679 I mean, besides being able to expand outward for the 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:50.080 testing purposes. Part of it was that Area fifty one, 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:52.160 by the eighties was starting to become one of those 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:54.320 things that people were getting more and more interested in. 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:59.160 Right exactly because at this time we see as some 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:03.520 of the what will later become the big known conspiracy 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:06.800 theories about Area fifty one or about Groom Lake. We 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:11.040 see these taking roots route because there are now people 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:14.400 who are able to say, well, I heard some rumors, 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:18.200 I live nearby, I drove out there, and sure enough 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:22.000 somebody showed up, uh and they'll say, I don't know, 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:25.639 was that the United Nations or was that the US government? 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:30.000 And they and they drove me away, And so now 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:33.399 it begins to look like a real thing, and you 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:35.959 still don't know exactly what's going on. Yeah, and there 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:41.280 were a couple of of points, like natural um hills, 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:46.080 natural ledges that were not too far from the facility 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:50.320 that originally we're not we're not within that that border, right, 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:52.520 so you could crawl up there. Yeah, if you hiked 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:54.920 out there, which would be quite a hike anyway, but 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:56.800 because you know, and you'd have to be pretty well 0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:59.199 equipped to do it, but you could, in theory, go 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:01.600 and hike out it one of these little points of interest, 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:05.960 set up a telescope or binoculars, and maybe not get 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:07.720 a real good idea of what was going on, but 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:10.439 at least see that there's activity going on. And especially 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:13.600 if you're there towards dusk and you're looking out I mean, 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:15.520 if you're looking out in the daytime, it's hard anyway, 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:18.000 because you get a lot of distortion from the heat, sound, 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:20.760 the desert. But at nighttime, if you're out there looking 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:23.679 at it and everything's lit up, you could you can 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:25.520 see that stuff is going on. You might even see 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:28.360 aircraft taking off and landing, although you know, you might 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:30.680 not have a real good look at what they how 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:32.919 they're shaped. But it was one of those things that 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:37.639 became a concern. And so while they didn't have official 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:41.320 ownership of that land, they were discouraging people from being there. 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:44.720 And by day, I mean, uh, some folks in camouflage. 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.840 We'll talk about them in the Mythology episode because because 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:50.879 they have they have a reputation, like they're called the 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:53.879 Camo dudes. We'll talk about that. And it's not just 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:58.120 not just a couple, there's actually quite a few of Almo. Yeah, 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:01.800 it's our teaser for part three exactly. So some citizens 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:05.760 also point out that it's not strictly legal for them 0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:08.719 to be told to leave land that doesn't belong to 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:12.760 the facility. You know, it's like the land has belong 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:15.520 to you, so therefore, what what authority do you have 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:19.120 to tell me to leave this place? Um, which that 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:22.480 would end up fueling the facility really petitioning to get 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:26.199 access to this this right. And and you know, realistically, 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:30.920 if somebody were to go to uh Quarter or to 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:33.720 local law enforcement and say, hey, what's going on here. 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:37.440 There is no chance that it would go anywhere, and 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:42.760 the those suspicions is very interesting. Those suspicions and those 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:48.800 concerns were finally verified in Yeah. So all through this 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:52.800 time the government is still saying there's nothing out there, 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:55.800 or that they cannot comment on it, or that it's 0:21:55.840 --> 0:21:59.120 a weather station, that anything other than what it actually is. Right, 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:01.840 and internally, at the same time, they're telling each other, 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:06.240 we have to keep security at the maximum level, the 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:10.320 most unreasonable level, because people cannot find out about this, 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:15.320 and if we slip at all, someone will, yeah, and 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:20.480 then lives. National security, everything's at stake. So that included 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:27.000 telling companies that operated satellites, hey, this this area of Nevada, 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:32.639 you can't photograph that. You cannot image that, and either 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:37.040 they would prevent companies from imaging that whole area of Nevada, 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:40.119 or if those images were gathered, they would demand to 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:44.399 have them censored so that the facility itself would not 0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:49.080 show up on satellite photography, which worked fine until when 0:22:49.080 --> 0:22:52.760 a Soviet satellite flew overhead and took images of very 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:55.800 fifty one. Here's the thing that the CIA finds a 0:22:55.800 --> 0:23:00.040 little frustrating. They do not have authority over the of 0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:03.280 the union. If they did, their jobs would be so 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:07.800 much easier during this time. But because the Soviets ended 0:23:07.840 --> 0:23:11.479 up flying a satellite overhead taking images, it meant that 0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:14.840 the cat was out of the bag. So those images 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:19.480 would end up being published in an article for Popular Science, 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:22.480 which was the first time that most people got a 0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:27.080 real look and granted a far overhead look of what 0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:30.520 area fifty one actually looks like. You haven't had a 0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:33.119 few people try and sneak some photos here and there 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:36.960 from a great distance. But one thing, if you're really 0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:39.280 far out and you're taking a picture of a facility 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:41.879 that's way the heck out there, you have no sense 0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:44.199 of scale. You have no real idea of what you know. 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:45.840 You just see a bunch of bumps and you're like, yeah, 0:23:45.880 --> 0:23:48.560 there's clearly something there, but I don't have any feel 0:23:48.600 --> 0:23:50.560 for what it is. This gave you an idea of 0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:52.720 what the actual layout was. You could see hangars, you 0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:54.680 could see where the housing units where, you could see 0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:59.800 the the the runways, so it actually showed what the 0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:03.119 general layout was. Now, granted, that's not good enough for 0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:06.520 some people. We'll talk about that in the Mythology and 0:24:06.560 --> 0:24:08.560 a lot of people saying, well, what do you not see? 0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:13.000 So now though as you as you said, uh, the 0:24:13.000 --> 0:24:16.680 Pandora boxes open, the cat is out of the bag, 0:24:16.840 --> 0:24:22.600 and this is the beginning of a well, depending on 0:24:22.680 --> 0:24:25.359 what you what perspective you're looking at this from, is 0:24:25.359 --> 0:24:30.080 either a watershed moment or a disastrous moment because now 0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:34.280 we see, uh, people who are not Soviets start to 0:24:34.320 --> 0:24:38.240 go public. Yeah. Yeah, in this case, it's a story 0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:42.679 that that involves tragedy. So in nine there was an 0:24:42.720 --> 0:24:46.359 Area fifty one employee named Robert Frost who passed away, 0:24:46.400 --> 0:24:48.520 and he wasn't the only one. There were other There 0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:51.480 was another employee who passed away and several who reported 0:24:52.200 --> 0:24:57.919 having serious health issues because what they had. Their story 0:24:58.040 --> 0:25:00.600 was that what they had to do was deal with 0:25:01.240 --> 0:25:06.359 um uh various pieces of equipment and fuel and things 0:25:06.400 --> 0:25:10.080 like that and destroy them by incinerating the incinerating them 0:25:10.119 --> 0:25:13.640 by essentially burning them in a pile, and then sifting 0:25:13.680 --> 0:25:17.320 through all of that pile, burning anything that was left 0:25:17.400 --> 0:25:23.000 over because the smallest trace could give someone an indication 0:25:23.040 --> 0:25:24.800 of what was going on at the facility. So they 0:25:24.800 --> 0:25:28.720 couldn't keep anything. They couldn't they couldn't send anything out 0:25:28.760 --> 0:25:32.439 to be destroyed. They had to destroy it all on site. Well, 0:25:32.480 --> 0:25:35.199 a lot of those materials were toxic, and even if 0:25:35.240 --> 0:25:37.439 they weren't toxic before you set them on fire, they 0:25:37.480 --> 0:25:40.359 became toxic once they were burning. So it meant that 0:25:40.400 --> 0:25:43.800 a lot of these employees were exposed to toxic elements. 0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:49.160 And they apparently according to the allegations laid by the 0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:52.360 former employees and and there's you know, their former spouses 0:25:52.400 --> 0:25:56.000 who lost their spouses as that part of this, Mrs 0:25:56.000 --> 0:25:59.960 Frost in this case. Yeah, so they have at least 0:26:00.040 --> 0:26:04.760 alleged that the workers were not given access to appropriate 0:26:04.880 --> 0:26:08.520 gear that would protect them from the toxicity. And in fact, 0:26:08.600 --> 0:26:11.439 they were essentially told, we don't have anything for you. 0:26:12.320 --> 0:26:16.480 This has to be burned. Burn it. So they ended 0:26:16.560 --> 0:26:20.640 up grouping together and filing a lawsuit against the government 0:26:20.880 --> 0:26:25.120 and they said, you know, this is unconscionable that this happened, 0:26:25.240 --> 0:26:29.960 these these conditions existed, and they sought damages against the government. Well, 0:26:30.000 --> 0:26:34.600 the government's response was that because of the nature of 0:26:34.640 --> 0:26:38.440 what goes on at this facility, they could not go 0:26:38.600 --> 0:26:42.240 forward with this um this lawsuit because it would it 0:26:42.240 --> 0:26:45.480 would mean revealing things that were state secrets that could 0:26:45.880 --> 0:26:50.600 endanger national security, and the judges have agreed with this 0:26:50.760 --> 0:26:54.159 and dismissed cases on the basis that pursuing such a 0:26:54.160 --> 0:26:56.959 case would be a danger to national security, which has 0:26:57.000 --> 0:26:59.680 led critics to point out, and I think rightfully so, 0:27:00.320 --> 0:27:03.080 that this gives the government a get out of jail 0:27:03.160 --> 0:27:06.800 free card, get out of accountability free cards. Sure, if 0:27:06.840 --> 0:27:10.159 you are able to claim that whatever you did you 0:27:10.200 --> 0:27:12.879 did in the name of national security and that having 0:27:12.920 --> 0:27:15.679 to defend yourself would put that security at risk, and 0:27:15.760 --> 0:27:20.440 that means you are no longer accountable, that's a terrible precedent. Yeah, 0:27:20.480 --> 0:27:24.600 it's it's dangerous. And also on the other side, there 0:27:24.800 --> 0:27:29.040 is a legitimate concern because I think this is a 0:27:29.080 --> 0:27:34.000 big misstep on Uncle Sam's part because let's just construct 0:27:34.000 --> 0:27:38.000 the speculative situation here. How did these people end up 0:27:38.000 --> 0:27:40.960 getting exposed these toxic chemicals? They said they did not 0:27:41.119 --> 0:27:45.080 have informed consent. Essentially, does that tie into the need 0:27:45.119 --> 0:27:47.600 to know stuff? Were they concerned that if they said 0:27:48.040 --> 0:27:51.520 what these chemicals are and their toxicity, this would somehow 0:27:51.600 --> 0:27:54.760 get back to a foreign power. Yeah, and we've gotten 0:27:54.760 --> 0:27:59.120 to a point now where everyone knows what is going 0:27:59.160 --> 0:28:02.840 on at a high level at a right. You know, 0:28:03.600 --> 0:28:07.120 Area fifty one is a testing grounds for new technology, 0:28:07.320 --> 0:28:11.199 specifically aircraft technology, whether it's manned or unmanned. We know 0:28:11.320 --> 0:28:16.720 that that's a fact. So the question then becomes, well, 0:28:16.760 --> 0:28:21.200 couldn't we have this case framed in such a way 0:28:21.200 --> 0:28:24.800 where that where the specifics remain top secret. We don't 0:28:24.840 --> 0:28:28.919 need to get into the specifics of what the vehicles were. 0:28:28.440 --> 0:28:32.560 We we just need to address whether or not in 0:28:32.600 --> 0:28:38.000 fact workers were exposed to toxic conditions without without sufficient 0:28:38.280 --> 0:28:41.840 resources to deal with it. Law. Yeah, that that's really 0:28:41.880 --> 0:28:44.960 all we have to to focus on, and then these 0:28:44.960 --> 0:28:47.680 sort of questions could be answered that way. But that's 0:28:47.720 --> 0:28:50.920 not how it played out, and in fact, uh, these 0:28:50.960 --> 0:28:54.520 things have become even more of a concern in the 0:28:54.600 --> 0:28:59.520 post nine eleven world where transparency is even harder to 0:28:59.560 --> 0:29:03.560 come by in certain fields of government. So, you know, 0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:06.240 you do have to balance out the transparency to the 0:29:06.320 --> 0:29:09.640 national security, But when it comes down to people's lives 0:29:10.160 --> 0:29:13.560 and saying well, you know this, this is this is 0:29:13.840 --> 0:29:17.040 an example of where we could say the government is 0:29:17.160 --> 0:29:22.040 wronging the citizens that it's supposed to represent. Then that 0:29:22.040 --> 0:29:24.080 that's a whole other question. Now, it could end up 0:29:24.080 --> 0:29:28.040 being that the government ends up accommodating various workers and 0:29:28.040 --> 0:29:31.040 families and other ways that are very quiet that we 0:29:31.080 --> 0:29:35.160 don't know about. That could happen, but we don't know that, right, 0:29:35.200 --> 0:29:38.840 and the the implications I've seen suggest that that had 0:29:38.920 --> 0:29:43.080 not happened. But moving on, Uh, you know, it's it's 0:29:43.360 --> 0:29:44.920 I certainly don't want to be the one who has 0:29:44.960 --> 0:29:48.400 to make the decisions, so I argue like this is 0:29:48.400 --> 0:29:50.840 a simple thing, but clearly it's a very complex matter. 0:29:52.040 --> 0:29:56.360 So in every fifty one would acquire two sites. These 0:29:56.400 --> 0:29:58.000 are two of those sites that I had talked about 0:29:58.040 --> 0:30:02.040 being kind of a problem for Area fifty one. Uh, 0:30:02.080 --> 0:30:05.360 there was Freedom Ridge and white Side's Peak. Both of 0:30:05.400 --> 0:30:09.000 those had been popular spots for people, and by popular, 0:30:09.080 --> 0:30:10.720 I mean a few times a year, so folks would 0:30:10.760 --> 0:30:13.400 go out there with binoculars. Um, these have been spots 0:30:13.400 --> 0:30:15.600 where people would go and try and get a distant look. Yeah, 0:30:15.600 --> 0:30:18.200 I think the closest you can get to Area fifty 0:30:18.200 --> 0:30:19.920 one right now. And I may even be wrong about this, 0:30:20.000 --> 0:30:22.400 It might not be that accurate at this point, but 0:30:22.480 --> 0:30:25.200 I believe it's twenty six miles away right so you 0:30:25.280 --> 0:30:28.760 cannot snatch a photograph and that's what you mean, there's 0:30:29.400 --> 0:30:34.080 legally yeah, yeah, yeah, if you were to trespass, it 0:30:34.080 --> 0:30:37.440 would be really stupid. And we're saying, we're not saying 0:30:37.480 --> 0:30:39.840 do it. In fact, Jonathan, both you and I are 0:30:39.880 --> 0:30:44.960 emphatically saying, don't ever go there unless you are specifically 0:30:45.400 --> 0:30:49.440 invited told by someone who is in charge. If you 0:30:49.520 --> 0:30:54.000 work there, go ahead and go. It's your job. So 0:30:54.120 --> 0:30:56.920 um yeah, But at any rate, it's it's definitely one 0:30:56.960 --> 0:30:59.120 of those things where if you are not invited, you 0:30:59.240 --> 0:31:02.040 do not go are So in two thousand thirteen, there 0:31:02.080 --> 0:31:05.200 was a declassified ci A document, actually a group of 0:31:05.200 --> 0:31:09.760 documents that referred to Area fifty one by that very name. Again, 0:31:09.840 --> 0:31:12.400 may have been a mistake that that part hadn't been 0:31:12.440 --> 0:31:16.240 just blacked out. But Jonathan, this this two thousand thirteen thing, 0:31:16.320 --> 0:31:21.000 which is very recent. It happened several several years after 0:31:21.160 --> 0:31:25.720 another point, a legislative point that I think is very 0:31:25.760 --> 0:31:30.880 important to underline. With some people's favorite presidents, some people's 0:31:30.920 --> 0:31:36.760 least favorite president, our boy saxophonist extraordinaire, William Clinton, Yeah, 0:31:37.560 --> 0:31:41.240 good old Bill So Clinton had signed an act into 0:31:41.400 --> 0:31:46.040 law that puts Area fifty one beyond investigation and legislation 0:31:46.080 --> 0:31:49.520 to preserve national security, which means there were a lot 0:31:49.520 --> 0:31:52.440 of different organizations that were trying to get access out 0:31:52.480 --> 0:31:54.640 of out of various concerns. You had people who were 0:31:54.640 --> 0:31:57.880 concerned for the health of the workers, like the lawsuits 0:31:57.920 --> 0:32:00.760 that we had mentioned. There are also environmental all concerns, 0:32:00.800 --> 0:32:04.920 so environmentalists and environmental agencies that wanted to make sure 0:32:05.000 --> 0:32:08.480 that the facility was following appropriate measures to make to 0:32:08.640 --> 0:32:12.040 make sure it wasn't polluting the area, wasn't affecting water tables, 0:32:12.080 --> 0:32:16.360 wasn't affecting the ecosystem. Because when you hear here things 0:32:16.440 --> 0:32:20.200 like they're burning toxic materials, that raises a lot of flags. 0:32:20.720 --> 0:32:26.320 And Clinton's Act essentially said it doesn't matter. You're not 0:32:26.360 --> 0:32:28.760 gonna You're not gonna get the clearance to investigate this, 0:32:28.880 --> 0:32:30.920 So whether something is going on or not, you're never 0:32:30.920 --> 0:32:35.040 gonna know. And essentially every president since then has backed 0:32:35.040 --> 0:32:38.520 that up, because again, it's one of those national security 0:32:38.560 --> 0:32:41.360 issues where you say, all right, I have to make 0:32:41.360 --> 0:32:43.920 a call. Do I call it on the side of 0:32:44.680 --> 0:32:47.000 national security, which a lot of people think is kind 0:32:47.040 --> 0:32:51.520 of a cop out answer. Yeah, Like it's again, like 0:32:51.560 --> 0:32:53.840 it's a way to just avoid accountability. That's how it 0:32:53.880 --> 0:32:56.600 can often be perceived. And maybe the truth is that, no, 0:32:56.720 --> 0:32:59.560 it really is a matter of national security. It's just 0:32:59.640 --> 0:33:02.280 hard to appreciate when you don't know, right and you 0:33:02.320 --> 0:33:04.320 can't know because if you did know, it would no 0:33:04.360 --> 0:33:06.840 longer be safe. And you don't know what you don't know, 0:33:06.920 --> 0:33:10.280 the old unknown unknown, Yeah, exactly, So, Uh, well, we 0:33:10.800 --> 0:33:13.160 I don't know. I'm pretty I'm pretty firm on what 0:33:13.280 --> 0:33:16.840 I don't know. It's it's a lot your authority on 0:33:16.880 --> 0:33:18.840 what you Yeah, I could write a book on what 0:33:18.920 --> 0:33:21.680 I don't know. But what you do know. Um, what 0:33:21.720 --> 0:33:25.000 we have we've looked at here so far is that, um, 0:33:25.120 --> 0:33:28.480 hopefully we've we've done a pretty bang up job of 0:33:28.520 --> 0:33:33.840 going through the facts. You know enough, I think to 0:33:33.880 --> 0:33:38.600 give us a hypothetical or high level look at what 0:33:38.720 --> 0:33:43.360 it would be like if Jonathan Strickland worked at Groom 0:33:43.440 --> 0:33:45.960 Lake and and and just uncle Sam, if you're listening, 0:33:46.000 --> 0:33:48.720 he doesn't I do not know. But here here's kind 0:33:48.760 --> 0:33:52.200 of what it would sound like according to the few 0:33:52.240 --> 0:33:55.120 accounts that we have that seemed credible. Keep in mind 0:33:55.120 --> 0:33:56.680 there are a lot of people who have claimed to 0:33:56.760 --> 0:33:58.600 have worked at Groom Lake at one time or another 0:33:58.600 --> 0:34:01.600 who may or may not have actually worked at Groom Lake. 0:34:02.160 --> 0:34:05.920 But let's say that. Let's say i'm i'm I'm working there. 0:34:06.120 --> 0:34:09.719 This is kind of what the perhaps the the orientation 0:34:09.840 --> 0:34:15.359 video would go. Hi, so you've decided to work at 0:34:15.360 --> 0:34:19.080 Groom Lake. Welcome to the team. When you turn in 0:34:19.160 --> 0:34:22.600 on Monday morning at the McCarron Airport in Las Vegas, 0:34:22.920 --> 0:34:26.880 you'll go straight to a secret area. Well, you'll board 0:34:27.200 --> 0:34:31.759 a Janet aircraft. Janet is the call sign. It's just 0:34:31.840 --> 0:34:35.400 a white plane with a red stripe. Then it's just 0:34:35.440 --> 0:34:39.680 a quick johnt to the airport over at Area fifty one. 0:34:40.320 --> 0:34:42.880 You'll get off the aircraft and go straight to work. 0:34:43.520 --> 0:34:47.240 Don't look around because all that other stuff is secret. 0:34:47.920 --> 0:34:50.759 You will work exactly on the projects you've been assigned 0:34:50.840 --> 0:34:54.640 and on nothing else. In your spare time, maybe you'd 0:34:54.640 --> 0:34:59.000 like to play some baseball, perhaps tennis, go for a swim, 0:34:59.120 --> 0:35:03.200 or visit a wonderful cafeteria. All the amenities you can 0:35:03.280 --> 0:35:06.799 imagine are available at Area fifty one. So that would 0:35:06.800 --> 0:35:11.120 be kind of the beginning. Yeah, that was great. I 0:35:11.120 --> 0:35:15.440 hope I wasn't, but um, but yeah, everything you're saying 0:35:15.640 --> 0:35:21.440 is is spot on? These seven thirty seven's are always 0:35:21.520 --> 0:35:24.520 called Janets. Yeah, it's it's that's the call sign, so 0:35:25.000 --> 0:35:28.879 people refer to it as Janet Airlines, But these are 0:35:29.160 --> 0:35:33.359 that's not an official company name, it's that they contracted 0:35:33.400 --> 0:35:36.040 seven thirty seven's. If you want to be a flight 0:35:36.080 --> 0:35:39.000 attendant on one of these, you have to go through 0:35:39.200 --> 0:35:41.279 the same sort of background check you would if you 0:35:41.320 --> 0:35:44.959 were to work at Area one. In fact, you would 0:35:45.000 --> 0:35:47.480 have to make sure that you got that top secret 0:35:47.480 --> 0:35:51.680 classification clearance because you were going to come into contact 0:35:51.680 --> 0:35:54.239 with folks who are working on top secret projects. So 0:35:54.360 --> 0:35:57.399 you have to be you have to prove that you're trustworthy. 0:35:57.719 --> 0:35:59.920 It's time for another quick break, but we will be 0:36:00.120 --> 0:36:09.560 right back with more about the history of Area fifty one. 0:36:11.040 --> 0:36:13.680 There are, like I said, some amenities. They have a gym, 0:36:13.719 --> 0:36:16.840 they've got a movie theater. The pool they use is 0:36:16.920 --> 0:36:21.920 mostly used for training purposes for pilots to train for 0:36:22.280 --> 0:36:26.120 what would happen if they eject over water. Yea, So 0:36:26.560 --> 0:36:31.000 things like new flight suits that are designed for high 0:36:31.040 --> 0:36:34.320 altitude flying. You know, they had to make new flight 0:36:34.360 --> 0:36:37.520 suits because people, pilots were suddenly flying at altitudes that 0:36:37.560 --> 0:36:40.600 no human had ever gone to before, or at least 0:36:40.640 --> 0:36:44.399 not I had gone to for a sustained amount of time. Yeah, 0:36:44.440 --> 0:36:46.200 so they had to they had to say, well, what 0:36:46.320 --> 0:36:49.160 happens if they have to eject over water? Can they 0:36:49.200 --> 0:36:51.560 get out? Is those suit going to weigh them down? 0:36:51.960 --> 0:36:55.360 And the way they tested is they'd essentially have pilots 0:36:55.640 --> 0:36:59.440 fall from a great height into a pool while wearing 0:36:59.440 --> 0:37:02.320 one of those bots, and they've tested out that way, 0:37:02.640 --> 0:37:05.759 so um so, probably not going for a pleasure swim, 0:37:06.040 --> 0:37:09.080 although from what I understand, some of the some of 0:37:09.080 --> 0:37:11.080 the people who are running who are running the programs, 0:37:11.080 --> 0:37:13.320 actually did have their pilots go for a swim first 0:37:13.360 --> 0:37:17.200 before going on a a mission, just to help kind 0:37:17.239 --> 0:37:20.920 of kind of focus themselves. So it all depends. The food, 0:37:20.920 --> 0:37:23.719 like I said, was supposedly really good apparently, and I 0:37:23.760 --> 0:37:26.680 have no idea if this is true, but apparently if 0:37:26.719 --> 0:37:31.120 the test flight involved going to some remote location like Maine, 0:37:32.080 --> 0:37:35.520 the pilots would sometimes bring back lobsters and so you 0:37:35.520 --> 0:37:37.759 would end up being able to have fresh lobster them 0:37:37.760 --> 0:37:42.040 and caught that morning in a desert in Nevada. But now, 0:37:42.080 --> 0:37:45.960 of course, for people who are listening to the series, 0:37:46.360 --> 0:37:49.839 you notice that we've mentioned, the early planes were very, 0:37:50.000 --> 0:37:53.920 very difficult and in some cases impossible to land to 0:37:54.040 --> 0:37:57.040 stop over. So it just makes you think about how 0:37:57.080 --> 0:37:59.879 far this technology has gone, because it makes me think 0:38:00.200 --> 0:38:03.240 where did they land these planes? Where? If you're working 0:38:03.239 --> 0:38:06.600 on a top secret aircraft, where do you land in 0:38:06.680 --> 0:38:08.840 Maine where you could go pick up some lobster and 0:38:08.880 --> 0:38:10.880 come back. I mean I heard the story, but I 0:38:10.920 --> 0:38:14.640 just don't know how that worked. And how do you 0:38:14.680 --> 0:38:17.880 give a lobster security clearance? Right? I mean those guys 0:38:18.360 --> 0:38:23.000 loose mandible sink ships. But uh and and also I 0:38:23.040 --> 0:38:25.719 mentioned that Area fifty one has a black budget project. 0:38:25.800 --> 0:38:28.960 So there have been several people who have reported that 0:38:29.040 --> 0:38:31.880 the way they were paid was in cash, that they 0:38:31.880 --> 0:38:34.080 were not given a check, because a check would mean 0:38:34.080 --> 0:38:38.200 that it's traceable to a specific organization, whatever that might be, 0:38:38.239 --> 0:38:41.160 whether it's Lockheed or it's c I A or whatever. 0:38:41.400 --> 0:38:45.279 Which that that happens in Yeah, yeah, No, you have 0:38:45.400 --> 0:38:48.239 you have people who collect intelligence who just pour over paperwork. 0:38:48.600 --> 0:38:52.560 Not all spying involves dressing in a tuxedo and betting 0:38:52.600 --> 0:38:57.080 on black I mean some spying is pouring over countless 0:38:57.200 --> 0:39:01.120 documents trying to look for hints at what's going on underneath. 0:39:02.239 --> 0:39:04.160 In fact, yeah, yeah, a great deal. Of course, a 0:39:04.200 --> 0:39:07.359 lot of it now has been relegated to algorithms, which 0:39:07.400 --> 0:39:10.600 means that the poor clerks don't have to do it anymore, 0:39:10.640 --> 0:39:14.400 but at any rate. So you might get paid in cash, 0:39:14.520 --> 0:39:17.080 and you might be told that whenever you sign for anything, 0:39:17.080 --> 0:39:20.640 you have to use an assumed name Josh Clark. When 0:39:20.680 --> 0:39:23.879 I sign everything, Josh doesn't realize this be co signed 0:39:23.880 --> 0:39:27.200 alone from my house. So, um, that's totally not true. 0:39:27.760 --> 0:39:32.320 Uh so, yeah, the it's they take their secrecy seriously 0:39:32.440 --> 0:39:35.960 all the way from the very high level we're talking 0:39:36.000 --> 0:39:38.440 like all that that restricted airspace that goes all the 0:39:38.440 --> 0:39:42.720 way up to space to how they pay the employees. Now, 0:39:42.880 --> 0:39:45.560 that doesn't say that doesn't mean that everything we've said 0:39:45.600 --> 0:39:49.040 today is accurate for how things work at Area fifty 0:39:49.080 --> 0:39:52.920 one today. Most of the information we have dates from 0:39:52.960 --> 0:39:55.080 folks who are discussing things that happen back in the 0:39:55.120 --> 0:40:00.000 sixties or seventies. Because they take the secrecy so serious 0:40:00.200 --> 0:40:04.880 lee and because people are signing over oaths that say 0:40:04.920 --> 0:40:08.680 they will not under any circumstances share the information, it 0:40:08.719 --> 0:40:12.719 means that we don't have up to date information. Now, 0:40:12.760 --> 0:40:15.359 I imagine that most of what's going on at Area 0:40:15.400 --> 0:40:19.760 fifty one these days probably involves a lot more onmanned drones. 0:40:19.840 --> 0:40:21.920 I think that's probably one of the big things that 0:40:21.920 --> 0:40:24.680 are under development there, and it really since it is 0:40:24.719 --> 0:40:29.520 an aircraft facility, I imagine that that's mostly what we're seeing. 0:40:29.560 --> 0:40:31.040 You know, there are a lot of people who suggest 0:40:31.120 --> 0:40:35.879 that other types of UH technology are under development Area 0:40:35.960 --> 0:40:38.440 fifty one, but that's really not what it's set up 0:40:38.480 --> 0:40:40.920 to do, right. Yeah, when you set up a facility 0:40:41.000 --> 0:40:44.200 like that there, it goes back to us talking about 0:40:44.280 --> 0:40:49.560 the specialization of these various aircraft. The base is the same. 0:40:49.600 --> 0:40:52.200 A base has to specialize. It can't be all things 0:40:52.239 --> 0:40:57.120 to all projects. So, for instance, another an unmanned UH 0:40:57.160 --> 0:41:01.000 space project that's going on now, the X there five B. 0:41:01.360 --> 0:41:03.719 I think it is UH, and I'm gonna double check 0:41:03.760 --> 0:41:07.279 while we're talking here. UH. That is something that goes 0:41:07.400 --> 0:41:12.160 into space. It requires a platform capable of launching it 0:41:11.719 --> 0:41:16.120 into near Earth orbit, right, So it was how would 0:41:16.120 --> 0:41:17.480 you do that? You wouldn't be able to do that 0:41:17.480 --> 0:41:19.880 at a facility like Area fifty one that doesn't have it, 0:41:20.239 --> 0:41:22.520 and if it did have it, you would you know, 0:41:22.640 --> 0:41:24.359 you would have to be further out than twenty five 0:41:24.400 --> 0:41:28.120 miles to not notice exactly. So a lot of the 0:41:28.520 --> 0:41:30.279 I think a lot of the drones that you'll that 0:41:30.320 --> 0:41:33.799 would be under development at Area fifty one would either 0:41:33.920 --> 0:41:37.120 be lower altitude drones or they would be like the 0:41:37.160 --> 0:41:39.440 old D twenty one where it was launched from a 0:41:39.520 --> 0:41:42.360 larger vehicle. Right, Yeah, and we're talking about U A v. 0:41:42.560 --> 0:41:46.239 S at this point, the Predator or something. Yeah, but 0:41:46.440 --> 0:41:48.640 the which is a name for you A v folks, 0:41:48.719 --> 0:41:52.120 not the not the movie, right they that's actually uh, 0:41:52.360 --> 0:41:55.719 Area fifty one is where they conceived and shot the Predator. 0:41:56.640 --> 0:42:00.479 It's also the fantastic location for the film Into Pay Stay. 0:42:01.120 --> 0:42:05.960 Uh sorry, that's okay. So we are not done with 0:42:06.080 --> 0:42:10.160 Area fifty one yet. We have covered the history as 0:42:10.239 --> 0:42:13.080 much of the real history as is known that we 0:42:13.120 --> 0:42:15.480 can talk about. Um. There of course a lot more 0:42:15.560 --> 0:42:19.239 details on all of these stories, and there's some fantastic 0:42:19.239 --> 0:42:21.120 books that have been written about the subject where people 0:42:21.160 --> 0:42:25.720 have meticulously researched all the available information and piece together 0:42:25.840 --> 0:42:27.600 as much as they could to get as as close 0:42:27.640 --> 0:42:29.520 to a full story as you can get without being 0:42:29.520 --> 0:42:33.359 on the inside. But we aren't done there because in 0:42:33.360 --> 0:42:36.319 our next episode, Ben and I are going to uh, 0:42:36.440 --> 0:42:39.600 we're going to explore the mythology a Very fifty one 0:42:39.640 --> 0:42:42.000 and the fact that you know, in in pop culture, 0:42:42.040 --> 0:42:45.040 we think of it as not just a place where 0:42:45.160 --> 0:42:49.200 spy technology was tested or and is still tested, but 0:42:49.280 --> 0:42:53.880 a place where other worldly technology may resign. Right, yes, 0:42:54.120 --> 0:42:58.880 And that goes along with some of the some of 0:42:58.960 --> 0:43:01.880 the very very range things that you have probably heard 0:43:02.040 --> 0:43:04.640 in your own day to day life about Area fifty one. 0:43:04.880 --> 0:43:09.479 When we say otherworldly, we don't just mean this dimension either. Yeah, 0:43:09.480 --> 0:43:12.800 it could. It could be pretty weird, and they range 0:43:12.880 --> 0:43:15.840 from things that you you could say, I can see 0:43:15.880 --> 0:43:20.839 why people believe that too. How is how was this 0:43:20.920 --> 0:43:24.640 ever an idea that someone had? Uh, There's a pretty 0:43:24.719 --> 0:43:28.120 pretty dynamic range there, So I look forward to having 0:43:28.120 --> 0:43:30.520 that discussion with you. Ben. We're going to end our 0:43:30.560 --> 0:43:35.239 recording for today and and conclude, but um, just just 0:43:35.280 --> 0:43:38.680 out of curiosity before we close the door on the 0:43:38.680 --> 0:43:40.840 the as much of the real story of Very fifty 0:43:40.840 --> 0:43:43.360 one as we can know, what do you think? What 0:43:43.400 --> 0:43:45.400 do you think about? What are your thoughts when you 0:43:45.440 --> 0:43:50.239 hear Area fifty one? Okay, yeah, thank you? The the 0:43:50.520 --> 0:43:54.279 gist of Area fifty one. We've we've explored us some 0:43:54.440 --> 0:43:58.000 of the effects that secrecy have on people's the way 0:43:58.040 --> 0:44:01.239 they frame questions and the way they address you. UM, 0:44:01.280 --> 0:44:05.200 I think it's clear that there is a grain of 0:44:05.360 --> 0:44:09.120 truth to some of the beliefs, unfounded as they may 0:44:09.160 --> 0:44:11.799 be about Area fifty one. We do know that there 0:44:11.840 --> 0:44:16.000 is secret technology being tested there, absolutely right. We know 0:44:16.160 --> 0:44:20.200 that it is. UM. It's it's not unreasonable to assume 0:44:20.239 --> 0:44:23.399 that it is several years ahead of what we would 0:44:23.400 --> 0:44:29.120 consider current publicly known pioneering research. And I would add 0:44:29.160 --> 0:44:33.839 to that that UM, when we when we say that 0:44:33.880 --> 0:44:36.400 there is a grain of truth to these things, what 0:44:36.520 --> 0:44:40.560 we're talking about more is similar to a piece of 0:44:40.600 --> 0:44:45.799 sand getting inside of CShell building a pearl. There's so 0:44:45.920 --> 0:44:51.160 much embellishment that occurs that at some point people will 0:44:51.160 --> 0:44:57.480 consciously dismiss the actual explanation. Where there's so much excitement 0:44:57.520 --> 0:45:00.200 about the embellishment and people fall in love with these 0:45:00.200 --> 0:45:03.040 stories that it can be difficult at times for them 0:45:03.080 --> 0:45:06.080 to admit when we say, oh, we have found the 0:45:06.160 --> 0:45:09.160 grain of sand called Project Mogul or something like right, 0:45:09.600 --> 0:45:14.279 and so as a result, we we run into what 0:45:14.520 --> 0:45:19.680 really is a new mythology that perpetuates itself, and honestly, 0:45:20.000 --> 0:45:23.879 the government is not helping with that at all. But then, 0:45:23.880 --> 0:45:25.880 to be fair, I think the government has a vested 0:45:25.920 --> 0:45:29.080 interest in letting that go as long as it needs 0:45:29.080 --> 0:45:32.279 to go, because if that means that the attention is 0:45:32.320 --> 0:45:36.239 put on something that is not real while they can 0:45:36.239 --> 0:45:40.920 work on very real but very secret projects, it benefits, right, Like, 0:45:40.960 --> 0:45:44.440 there's there's not a whole lot of incentive to say 0:45:44.760 --> 0:45:47.799 you are completely wrong. And here's why when they could 0:45:47.840 --> 0:45:51.600 say we, you know, we have no comment on that, 0:45:52.480 --> 0:45:56.040 which gives them the benefit of saying we didn't. We 0:45:56.080 --> 0:46:00.239 didn't confirm it, we didn't really deny it strongly. I there, 0:46:00.840 --> 0:46:02.480 at the same time, we can continue our work on 0:46:02.520 --> 0:46:05.560 the very secret stuff that we actually need to develop. Um. 0:46:05.600 --> 0:46:07.840 I personally think that such a such a facility like 0:46:07.880 --> 0:46:12.160 Area fifty one, in a world where spying is uh 0:46:12.320 --> 0:46:19.160 necessary evil, that it's absolutely the perfect, the perfect facility 0:46:19.200 --> 0:46:22.320 for that because it has stood the test of time. 0:46:22.360 --> 0:46:24.680 I mean, you know, the idea of something that was 0:46:24.719 --> 0:46:27.799 built in the fifties still maintaining this level of mystique, 0:46:28.440 --> 0:46:32.360 you know, five more than five decades later, is pretty incredible, 0:46:32.840 --> 0:46:36.719 So it's it's pretty It's a fascinating subject to me. 0:46:36.800 --> 0:46:41.560 I love the idea of these engineers working to meet 0:46:42.160 --> 0:46:45.240 seemingly unachievable goals. I mean, the idea of the idea 0:46:45.280 --> 0:46:49.120 of creating an aircraft that could defy radar was was 0:46:49.160 --> 0:46:51.200 a real eye opener. And you know, you've got to 0:46:51.239 --> 0:46:53.440 keep in mind that the United States had that technology 0:46:53.520 --> 0:46:56.960 years before we ever had any public unveiling of it. 0:46:57.400 --> 0:47:01.040 So that's pretty exciting stuff. And uh, I love the 0:47:01.080 --> 0:47:03.520 idea of it. I do think that the operation of 0:47:03.560 --> 0:47:07.880 it lends itself to some potential misuses of power. I 0:47:07.920 --> 0:47:11.560 really do think that this, this use of national security 0:47:11.640 --> 0:47:16.279 to kind of um distance yourself from any culpability is 0:47:16.320 --> 0:47:20.319 a little distasteful. Well yeah, I mean, national security is 0:47:20.640 --> 0:47:23.279 the way I like to think of it. Often in 0:47:23.320 --> 0:47:26.240 the post nine eleven world, national security has been become 0:47:26.280 --> 0:47:29.759 the equivalent of hitting base in the Great Game of 0:47:29.800 --> 0:47:34.160 Tag than this national discourse. So one one other thing 0:47:34.200 --> 0:47:36.520 that I wanted to ask you, and again, as always, 0:47:36.560 --> 0:47:39.200 thank you for having me on the show. I wanted 0:47:39.239 --> 0:47:44.239 to ask you, do you think that people should be 0:47:44.520 --> 0:47:48.680 people who let me phrase this correctly, people I wanted 0:47:48.719 --> 0:47:53.120 to ask you, what do you think about the scrutiny 0:47:53.200 --> 0:47:56.000 regarding Area of Fife or Groom Lake, because it's pretty 0:47:56.040 --> 0:48:00.600 well known right now, so I think that the question 0:48:00.719 --> 0:48:03.279 is what else is out there? And my question is 0:48:03.520 --> 0:48:07.239 do you think that there are other lesser known places 0:48:07.360 --> 0:48:10.080 where um, not the bulk of the work, but other 0:48:10.120 --> 0:48:13.200 work is taking place? Absolutely? Oh yeah. I mean Area 0:48:13.280 --> 0:48:15.879 fifty one is really a testing ground. So if you're 0:48:15.880 --> 0:48:19.440 talking about actual research and development to the point of 0:48:19.520 --> 0:48:23.200 before you even built something, where you're just figuring out prototypes. 0:48:23.640 --> 0:48:27.040 There are facilities all over the United States that are 0:48:27.080 --> 0:48:29.280 involved in that in some way or another, Like Lockheed 0:48:29.840 --> 0:48:34.640 has has areas that they have famously disguised from the 0:48:34.719 --> 0:48:37.399 air so that you couldn't see what was going on 0:48:37.480 --> 0:48:40.200 or where where even a building was. But they're not 0:48:40.239 --> 0:48:41.959 the only one by a long shot. I mean there's 0:48:42.040 --> 0:48:46.560 their companies and organizations um, as well as as actual 0:48:46.600 --> 0:48:52.280 military facilities that are just as secretive as Area fifty 0:48:52.320 --> 0:48:55.640 one is, but perhaps don't have the same level of mystique, right. 0:48:55.760 --> 0:48:57.880 I mean, when you're talking about aircraft and you're seeing 0:48:57.920 --> 0:49:03.520 weird things fly overhead, that definitely brings some questions to mind. 0:49:03.840 --> 0:49:06.359 If it's a facility that you can't really see and 0:49:06.440 --> 0:49:09.160 all the stuff they do is ground related, it's not 0:49:09.200 --> 0:49:12.640 going to gain that same level of attention. And that 0:49:12.680 --> 0:49:15.879 wraps up this classic episode, the History of Area fifty one, 0:49:16.080 --> 0:49:19.000 Part two. Next week we're going to go into some 0:49:19.040 --> 0:49:24.160 of the more creative theories and hypotheses about what was 0:49:24.200 --> 0:49:26.960 going on at Area fifty one, So make sure you 0:49:27.000 --> 0:49:29.800 tune into that. And if you have suggestions for topics 0:49:29.800 --> 0:49:33.319 I should cover and current Tech Stuff episodes, reach out 0:49:33.320 --> 0:49:35.319 to me. The best way to do that is over 0:49:35.360 --> 0:49:37.560 on Twitter. The handle for the show is Text Stuff 0:49:37.760 --> 0:49:46.400 hs W and I'll talk to you again. Release. Text 0:49:46.400 --> 0:49:49.839 Stuff is an I Heart Radio production. For more podcasts 0:49:49.880 --> 0:49:52.640 from my Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app, 0:49:52.760 --> 0:49:55.920 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.