1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. Hey, Laron, 2 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm 3 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: an executive producer with iHeart Radio and I love all 4 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: things tech. It is time for a tech Stuff Classic episode. 5 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: This episode is actually a continuation of last week's classic episode. 6 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 1: This one published on September two, thousand fourteen. It is 7 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 1: titled The History of Area fifty one, Part two. So 8 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 1: if you haven't listened to last week's classic episode, you 9 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: should probably do that first. Area fifty one is it 10 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: feels it feels like it's ironic to say this a 11 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: famous secret facility, And so we kind of go through 12 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: more about how Area fifty history unfolded in reality and 13 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: really focusing on the well documented events that occurred at 14 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: and around Area fifty one. Hope you enjoy The way 15 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: history works is we like to think of it as 16 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: there's a beginning, middle, and end of each thing, and 17 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: then the next thing has a beginning, middle, and end 18 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: when really everything is overlapping everything else. Yeah, it's that's 19 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: that's exactly right. And I'm glad you said that. I 20 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: was thinking about that earlier this week. If you've ever 21 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: looked up historical characters who who lived in the same 22 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: time period. It's it's fascinating. Yeah, and it can get 23 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 1: really confusing really fast. Right, It's it's hard. It's hard 24 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: to communicate how complex history is because we work really 25 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: well understanding narratives. Right, but when you when you weave 26 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: in so many narratives, that becomes like the ultimate Quentin 27 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: Tarantino film. You can get lost. Yeah, but you are 28 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: an explainer, extraordinary, how about that? So, so, I think 29 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: that you can easily guide us through some stuff that 30 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: might be might be a little confusing if you get 31 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: it all at once, but take us through point by point, 32 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: because I'll be honest with you, man, we're getting to 33 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: my favorite part of the story. Yeah, here's here's where 34 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: things get a little weird. Um. So, we had talked 35 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 1: about the A twelve that had started. The first A 36 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: twelve arrived at Are fifty one in nineteen sixty two 37 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 1: and wouldn't really be tested until the following year. That's 38 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: when pilots trained by the c i A or pilots 39 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:30,799 Speaker 1: who had joined the CIA, began to test these these 40 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: aircraft at that same time, all the way back in 41 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two. You had a project that ended up 42 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: being called the D twenty one. That twenty one, by 43 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 1: the way, where that number come from, Well, they had 44 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: the A twelve and they figured having like an A 45 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: twelve and a D twelve would be really confusing, so 46 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: they just they just transpose those numbers to the A 47 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: twelve and the D twenty one. This is when you 48 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: realize how capricious the naming systems are. It's just you 49 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: eventually like, ah, you know, I always thought those letters 50 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: of numbers really had special designation. Not all the time. Oh, 51 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 1: here's an idea, Jonathan. We if we end up ever 52 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: doing top secret government work, I I hope that you 53 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: and I could both threw our names in the hat 54 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 1: to be the people who make up the code names. 55 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: That'd be fantastic. And yeah, and and ultimately people will 56 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 1: fear us because they know that if they if they 57 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: do not please us, we will give them the worst 58 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: code names. Yeah. Yeah, Also, uh, going back to it, 59 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: sorry for that. Uh it's called the D twenty one 60 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: instead of the A twelve. Then we know they transpose 61 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: numbers to avoid, uh, to avoid too much similarity. But 62 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: what's this D twenty one about? So this is this 63 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: is where things are are pretty amazing. And the D 64 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: twenty one was an unmanned vehicle. It was meant to 65 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: be a spy plane that would not require a human 66 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: pilot behind the controls. I mean, there would be a 67 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: pilot controlling it, but they'd be controlling it remotely on 68 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: the ound. So we are talking about this not an 69 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: autonomous vehicle. I don't want to go so far as 70 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: to say it's like some sort of robotic super thing 71 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: that happened in two but we're talking about a remote 72 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: controlled aerial vehicle that was essentially a jet. I mean, 73 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: it's it was not like it was that much smaller 74 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: than some of the other aircraft were talking about. It 75 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: wasn't It wasn't like the size of a drone. You 76 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: might go and get one of those little quad copters. 77 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: It was significantly larger than that. It was amazing to 78 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,239 Speaker 1: me that it was this early. Now the reasons behind 79 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: developing it make a lot of sense, because if you 80 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: have a manned vehicle, then clearly you have a human 81 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: life at risk whenever that vehicles in operation. Even if 82 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: first we have to consider the fact that flying is 83 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: can be dangerous. Flying a spy plane in particular, can 84 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: be dangerous because the design may mean that it's difficult 85 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 1: for you to have it take off or land safely, 86 00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: even if there's no enemy uh interference whatsoever during the mission, right, Yeah, 87 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:06,239 Speaker 1: and if you have to conduct evasive maneuvers, then there's 88 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: not really a nice way to say it. You're in 89 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: a lot of trouble. Yeah, I mean the we already 90 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: mentioned in the previous episode that the YouTube plane is 91 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: notoriously difficult to fly. So just with that alone, if 92 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 1: you were able to have an unmanned version where you 93 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: could get that same sort of reconnaissance ability but you 94 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: don't put a pilot's life in danger, that's good. But 95 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: on top of that, there's another reason that's that goes 96 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: back to safety, but it's more about the safety of 97 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: the country and not the pilot. Yeah, which means that 98 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: if you have one of these aircraft and it's unmanned 99 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:44,679 Speaker 1: and it's shot down, there's no pilot. For the folks 100 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 1: who shot down the aircraft, there's no pilot for them 101 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 1: to capture and interrogate, so they're not going to get 102 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 1: any other information apart from the actual workings of whatever 103 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 1: the device was. So they might see that, you know, 104 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: what kind of engine you're using or whatever, what sort 105 00:05:57,800 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: of technology made it work, But they're not going to 106 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: have a person that they can say, all right, how 107 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 1: many other operatives are in the area, where did you 108 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: fly from? Yeah, so that also, I mean, it's not 109 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: completely um, it's not just something that's in concern for 110 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:17,119 Speaker 1: the pilot's well being. Uh, it's also a national security issue, 111 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: which you know, it's not pleasant to talk about, but 112 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: it's certainly something they had to keep in mind. And 113 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: at this point sixty two, they're developing this early nineteen sixties. Uh, 114 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: the USS are already knows about the you tube, and 115 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 1: they're on the lookout for these vehicles I almost say creatures, 116 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: but look out for these planes absolutely. And so this 117 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,799 Speaker 1: one in particular, was it was an an ambitious project. 118 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: It wasn't just an unmanned drone, which already like I 119 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: always think of the quad copters. It's just because the 120 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: quad copters is such a popular consumer drone right now, 121 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: and it's also kind of the design that we're seeing 122 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: for stuff like the proposed Amazon delivery drones. This was 123 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: this was a ramjet engine drone. We're talking about a 124 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: super sonic vehicle. It's not meant to travel and speeds 125 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: lower than that. In fact, you couldn't have this take 126 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: off from a regular landing strip, you know, or or 127 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: a runway. You had this mounted to a separate vehicle, 128 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: like an A twelve. The A twelve would travel and 129 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: start to reach supersonic speeds, and from that point you 130 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: would then launch the D twenty one, which would already 131 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: be traveling at a superspeed, know, a sonic supersonic speed, 132 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: and it would just go from there. So this meant 133 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: that they had a pretty risky launch sequence. I mean 134 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: it meant you already had an aircraft that was manned 135 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: that had to be traveling at this incredible speed before 136 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: you even launched the unmanned vehicle during the test that 137 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: the drones would actually land slash crash, usually on a 138 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: nearby mountain, uh near Groom Lake during the actual tests, 139 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: and so to retrieve it, they would send out another aircraft, 140 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: usually I guess a helicopter, because it had to have 141 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: some hovering capabilities, and they had para jumpers, but the 142 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: jumpers wouldn't parachute. What they would do is they would 143 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: lower down on lines from the aircraft hook the drone. 144 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: You know, it had some you know, they would attach 145 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: the line to the drone in some way, and then 146 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: they would essentially tow the drones back to the facility 147 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: so that you just didn't have these unmanned vehicles crashed 148 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: on the side of mountains, which I'm sure would fuel 149 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: even more speculation if they had been found by civilians, yeah, 150 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: or god forbid, a rival government. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So 151 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: so they were a cool idea, but like I said, 152 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: it was really dangerous and kind of impractical. There's a 153 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: high rate of attrition for these vehicles, just because I mean, 154 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: think about it. We just named four big ifs in 155 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: the takeoff, if the twelve survived, if the pilots cool, 156 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: if it reaches the you know, if it reaches the 157 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: speed sufficient to deploy, and if it deploys successfully. Yeah. 158 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: And unfortunately, there was an accident in nineteen sixty six. 159 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: It was a catastrophic failure. The drone, which I believe 160 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: was top mounted onto an A twelve uh, ended up 161 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: tilting downwards instead of upwards when it took off and 162 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: cut the plane in half. Now, the two pilots inside 163 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: that plane at this point, the the twelve was over 164 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: the Pacific Ocean. It had flown out over the coast 165 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: of California. The two pilots aboard the A twelve were 166 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,479 Speaker 1: able to eject successfully. However, one of the two tragically 167 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: got caught up in his parachute line and drowned in 168 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: the ocean. The other one had been rescued successfully. And 169 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: the story is that Kelly Johnson, we talked about him 170 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: in the first episode about Area fifty one. He's the 171 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: guy from Lockheed who very much was the head of 172 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,319 Speaker 1: development at Area fifty one, this guy who designed the 173 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: YouTube plane. Well, Kelly Johnson was so horrified at this accident. 174 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: I mean, he really personally took it very very hard. 175 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: That he reportedly shut down the project and then returned 176 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 1: the project funding to the Air Force and the CIA, 177 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: which is sort of unheard of in the world of contracting. Yeah, 178 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: that I had heard that. The phrase I read was 179 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: emotionally and impulsively returned the funding. So I mean it 180 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: was clear that he truly cared about the people who 181 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: were working for him. So um, And that's something I 182 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 1: think that's also important to remember is that we often 183 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: in these stories we d personalized, dehumanize the folks who 184 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: are involved in it. Because so much secrecy is there, 185 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: we don't really know that much about the people involved. 186 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: But these are people, right, and they're probably friends. They 187 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: hang out, they probably eat together, things like you would 188 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: do with your friends. Yeah, So it's it's good to 189 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: have this, this touchstone to just remind ourselves that while 190 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: we're talking about this, and while it lends itself to 191 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: the whole discussion of shadowy government projects, ultimately we're not 192 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: talking about these giant organizations that are somehow sentient on 193 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: their own and acting without direction, their actual people behind, 194 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: not some faceless octopus. But no, that's that's the S 195 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: four facility, not area right, faceless octopus lake. Look it up, 196 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 1: you know the that got a little love Craft dift. 197 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: That's fair. So in nineteen six seven, a big thing happens, right, 198 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: because the mission that we have always been trying to 199 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,839 Speaker 1: avoid in the United States at this time is to 200 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: never have an aircraft captured, right. But conversely, we want 201 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: to capture aircraft, right, and in fact we were able 202 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: to do that. The very first MiG twenty one plane 203 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: arrived at Groom Lake. So that's a Soviet aircraft. This 204 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 1: is then the era of the USSR UM. You know, 205 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: I I grew up in the eighties, so I grew 206 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: up when the USSR was still a thing. And even 207 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: at that point, even maybe especially in the eighties, something 208 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: like the thought of a MiG twenty one being in 209 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: US hands was a big big deal because it meant 210 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: that we could see what are our opponent in the 211 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 1: Cold War was capable of. You could see what the 212 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: military capabilities of this aircraft were. And it meant that 213 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: the Area fifty one became a testing ground not just 214 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: for developing technology here in the United States, but also 215 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: for foreign technology, so that we could really understand what 216 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 1: the capabilities were and therefore design our stuff to meet 217 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,319 Speaker 1: and exceed those capabilities. So it becomes kind of this 218 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 1: this game of uh, they get one square ahead, then 219 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: we have to jump two squares ahead, and and what 220 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: are they able to do? In what can't they do? 221 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: And we're continually verse engineering. Right. So, with the arrival 222 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: of Soviet aircraft at the Groom Lake facility, because this 223 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:10,719 Speaker 1: MiG would not be the only one, there would be 224 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: other Soviet aircraft that would join it throughout the years, 225 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: the pilots begin to have a new name for the 226 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: restricted airspace, which in our last episode you may remember 227 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: we talked about being the groom box or just the box. 228 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: Now it's called Red Square because now it is the 229 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 1: space the one place in the United States where you 230 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: might see Soviet aircraft lying overhead. And again that starts 231 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: to fuel a lot of conspiracy theories, because you'd see 232 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 1: a jet that doesn't look like anything you would have 233 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: seen here in the US, and you see it fly overhead, 234 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,319 Speaker 1: and you wonder, what the heck was that thing, and 235 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: and that starts to you know, you start to fill 236 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: in the blanks as much as you can. And if 237 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: you're a veteran, then you say, uhlane, you go back 238 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: to your to your your house, and you sit down 239 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: your typewriter and you type up the first draft of 240 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: Red Dawn, which one of us would reach that first. 241 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: But of course with this they immediately begin uh retooling 242 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: and working on new iterations of stealth craft. Right, right, 243 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: so they're earlier there. Earlier plan had been reduced radar footprint, 244 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: but mainly go go so fast that people can't shoot 245 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: you down right. You know, that's a pretty simple plan, 246 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: but it can be really effective. However, it can mean 247 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: also that the aircraft itself is really dangerous, so they 248 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: start looking at other ways of creating stealth technology, and 249 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: engineers over at Lockheeds start to develop something called Have 250 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: Blue which was a stealth aircraft, and it was a 251 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: proof of concept aircraft. It wasn't meant to be a 252 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: full production vehicle. Only to Have Blue aircraft were ever made, 253 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: and they started as kind of ended up being a 254 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: predecessor to the F one seventeen Nighthawk, which has another 255 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: name that became famous in the early nineties that would 256 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: be the stealth fighter. So this is the even though 257 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: it was not really a fighter by the way, just 258 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: the seal craft it was meant to. It was meant 259 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: it was that air took around combat vehicle, not an 260 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: air to air vehicle, which is what you would typically 261 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: call a fighter, versus what the stealth what the Nighthawk 262 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: actually was. So, and this is the one that if 263 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: you look at the pictures that has all those crazy 264 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: funky angles on it that are meant to deflect radar 265 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: so that the returning radar signals don't go back to 266 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: the receiving station, which means that the receiving station doesn't 267 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: get an accurate representation of where the aircraft is. Right, 268 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: they get something, but it's not anything you can concretely trace, 269 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: and hopefully in theory, not something you can shoot at. Right, right, 270 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: that's the whole point of it. So they have blue aircraft, uh, 271 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: is that that predecessor, And so a lot of stealth 272 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: technology was pioneered at Area fifty one Spade in the 273 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: testing phase, because again a lot of this stuff would 274 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: end up being built at Lockheed's other facilities and then 275 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: transported over to Area fifty one for testing. We'll be 276 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: back with more about the history of Area fifty one 277 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: in just a moment, but first let's take a quick break. 278 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: Now we're gonna skip ahead quite a bit. That was 279 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: seventy seven with they have blue aircraft and eight two 280 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: you have Tacit Blue, which it does? It does Tacit Blue. 281 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: Come on, let's go fight the kaiju um. It's a 282 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: still aircraft that was developed by Northrop. So this one 283 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: was not a Lockheed aircraft, was a Northrop aircraft and 284 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: that's also tested room like. Only one was ever built 285 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: and it was retired in nineteen eighty five. So from 286 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: two to eighty five this thing existed. Now we didn't 287 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: know about it until nineties six, so this thing had 288 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: been out of commission for more than a decade before 289 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: the government said, oh, by the way, yeah we had 290 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: this thing. It was a forerunner of the stealth technology 291 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: that we use today. It's called Tacit Blue, and guys, 292 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: you know, this is an audio podcast, which in some 293 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: ways is great because it means you can listen to 294 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: it whenever you're doing anything like jogging or driving and 295 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 1: you're not missing it out on anything. But it also 296 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: means that we can't do it justice by saying this 297 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:32,199 Speaker 1: thing looks weird. Go google tacit Blue and take a 298 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,439 Speaker 1: look at this aircraft, because it does not look like 299 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: other aircraft. It just it's very oddly designed and shaped. 300 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: So it certainly can tell you that the experiments and 301 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: stealth technology were uh, they went in all sorts of 302 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: you're looking at it right now, aren't you, isn't it? Yeah? 303 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 1: It looks like if you've seen a sci fi film 304 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: made in the seventies about how crazy the two thousands, 305 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: so you're gonna be yea they would fly. You could 306 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 1: see that plane flying overhead during clockwork orange. Oh yeah, 307 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: because with all the white uh, the white furniture that's 308 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: in that. Yeah. So in nineteen eighty four, Area fifty one, 309 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: the Groom Lake Facility petitions Congress for an additional eighty 310 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: nine thousand acres of land. Meanwhile, you've got armed guards 311 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: who patrol the area, essentially patrolling that additional eighty nine 312 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: thousand acres, turning people away, even though it wouldn't be 313 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: till seven that the request would actually be approved by Congress. 314 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: So technically they were kind of acting like the land 315 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: was theirs before it officially had become theirs. And you 316 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: might wonder, well, why were they asking for all this land? 317 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 1: I mean, besides being able to expand outward for the 318 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: testing purposes. Part of it was that Area fifty one, 319 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 1: by the eighties was starting to become one of those 320 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: things that people were getting more and more interested in. 321 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: Right exactly because at this time we see as some 322 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: of the what will later become the big known conspiracy 323 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: theories about Area fifty one or about Groom Lake. We 324 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: see these taking roots route because there are now people 325 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,400 Speaker 1: who are able to say, well, I heard some rumors, 326 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: I live nearby, I drove out there, and sure enough 327 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: somebody showed up, uh and they'll say, I don't know, 328 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 1: was that the United Nations or was that the US government? 329 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: And they and they drove me away, And so now 330 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 1: it begins to look like a real thing, and you 331 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:35,959 Speaker 1: still don't know exactly what's going on. Yeah, and there 332 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: were a couple of of points, like natural um hills, 333 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: natural ledges that were not too far from the facility 334 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: that originally we're not we're not within that that border, right, 335 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: so you could crawl up there. Yeah, if you hiked 336 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: out there, which would be quite a hike anyway, but 337 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: because you know, and you'd have to be pretty well 338 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,199 Speaker 1: equipped to do it, but you could, in theory, go 339 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: and hike out it one of these little points of interest, 340 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: set up a telescope or binoculars, and maybe not get 341 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: a real good idea of what was going on, but 342 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,439 Speaker 1: at least see that there's activity going on. And especially 343 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: if you're there towards dusk and you're looking out I mean, 344 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: if you're looking out in the daytime, it's hard anyway, 345 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: because you get a lot of distortion from the heat, sound, 346 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: the desert. But at nighttime, if you're out there looking 347 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 1: at it and everything's lit up, you could you can 348 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: see that stuff is going on. You might even see 349 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,360 Speaker 1: aircraft taking off and landing, although you know, you might 350 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 1: not have a real good look at what they how 351 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 1: they're shaped. But it was one of those things that 352 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:37,639 Speaker 1: became a concern. And so while they didn't have official 353 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: ownership of that land, they were discouraging people from being there. 354 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: And by day, I mean, uh, some folks in camouflage. 355 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: We'll talk about them in the Mythology episode because because 356 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: they have they have a reputation, like they're called the 357 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 1: Camo dudes. We'll talk about that. And it's not just 358 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:58,120 Speaker 1: not just a couple, there's actually quite a few of Almo. Yeah, 359 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: it's our teaser for part three exactly. So some citizens 360 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: also point out that it's not strictly legal for them 361 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,719 Speaker 1: to be told to leave land that doesn't belong to 362 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: the facility. You know, it's like the land has belong 363 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: to you, so therefore, what what authority do you have 364 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,120 Speaker 1: to tell me to leave this place? Um, which that 365 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: would end up fueling the facility really petitioning to get 366 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,199 Speaker 1: access to this this right. And and you know, realistically, 367 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: if somebody were to go to uh Quarter or to 368 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: local law enforcement and say, hey, what's going on here. 369 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: There is no chance that it would go anywhere, and 370 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: the those suspicions is very interesting. Those suspicions and those 371 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: concerns were finally verified in Yeah. So all through this 372 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: time the government is still saying there's nothing out there, 373 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: or that they cannot comment on it, or that it's 374 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,120 Speaker 1: a weather station, that anything other than what it actually is. Right, 375 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: and internally, at the same time, they're telling each other, 376 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: we have to keep security at the maximum level, the 377 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 1: most unreasonable level, because people cannot find out about this, 378 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: and if we slip at all, someone will, yeah, and 379 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: then lives. National security, everything's at stake. So that included 380 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: telling companies that operated satellites, hey, this this area of Nevada, 381 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: you can't photograph that. You cannot image that, and either 382 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: they would prevent companies from imaging that whole area of Nevada, 383 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: or if those images were gathered, they would demand to 384 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 1: have them censored so that the facility itself would not 385 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: show up on satellite photography, which worked fine until when 386 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: a Soviet satellite flew overhead and took images of very 387 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: fifty one. Here's the thing that the CIA finds a 388 00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:00,040 Speaker 1: little frustrating. They do not have authority over the of 389 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: the union. If they did, their jobs would be so 390 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: much easier during this time. But because the Soviets ended 391 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,479 Speaker 1: up flying a satellite overhead taking images, it meant that 392 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: the cat was out of the bag. So those images 393 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: would end up being published in an article for Popular Science, 394 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: which was the first time that most people got a 395 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: real look and granted a far overhead look of what 396 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: area fifty one actually looks like. You haven't had a 397 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 1: few people try and sneak some photos here and there 398 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: from a great distance. But one thing, if you're really 399 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: far out and you're taking a picture of a facility 400 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: that's way the heck out there, you have no sense 401 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 1: of scale. You have no real idea of what you know. 402 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: You just see a bunch of bumps and you're like, yeah, 403 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: there's clearly something there, but I don't have any feel 404 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: for what it is. This gave you an idea of 405 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: what the actual layout was. You could see hangars, you 406 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 1: could see where the housing units where, you could see 407 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: the the the runways, so it actually showed what the 408 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: general layout was. Now, granted, that's not good enough for 409 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: some people. We'll talk about that in the Mythology and 410 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: a lot of people saying, well, what do you not see? 411 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: So now though as you as you said, uh, the 412 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 1: Pandora boxes open, the cat is out of the bag, 413 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: and this is the beginning of a well, depending on 414 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: what you what perspective you're looking at this from, is 415 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: either a watershed moment or a disastrous moment because now 416 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: we see, uh, people who are not Soviets start to 417 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: go public. Yeah. Yeah, in this case, it's a story 418 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 1: that that involves tragedy. So in nine there was an 419 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 1: Area fifty one employee named Robert Frost who passed away, 420 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: and he wasn't the only one. There were other There 421 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: was another employee who passed away and several who reported 422 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 1: having serious health issues because what they had. Their story 423 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: was that what they had to do was deal with 424 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: um uh various pieces of equipment and fuel and things 425 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: like that and destroy them by incinerating the incinerating them 426 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 1: by essentially burning them in a pile, and then sifting 427 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: through all of that pile, burning anything that was left 428 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: over because the smallest trace could give someone an indication 429 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: of what was going on at the facility. So they 430 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: couldn't keep anything. They couldn't they couldn't send anything out 431 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 1: to be destroyed. They had to destroy it all on site. Well, 432 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,199 Speaker 1: a lot of those materials were toxic, and even if 433 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,439 Speaker 1: they weren't toxic before you set them on fire, they 434 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: became toxic once they were burning. So it meant that 435 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: a lot of these employees were exposed to toxic elements. 436 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 1: And they apparently according to the allegations laid by the 437 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,360 Speaker 1: former employees and and there's you know, their former spouses 438 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: who lost their spouses as that part of this, Mrs 439 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: Frost in this case. Yeah, so they have at least 440 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: alleged that the workers were not given access to appropriate 441 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: gear that would protect them from the toxicity. And in fact, 442 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,439 Speaker 1: they were essentially told, we don't have anything for you. 443 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: This has to be burned. Burn it. So they ended 444 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 1: up grouping together and filing a lawsuit against the government 445 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,120 Speaker 1: and they said, you know, this is unconscionable that this happened, 446 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: these these conditions existed, and they sought damages against the government. Well, 447 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: the government's response was that because of the nature of 448 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: what goes on at this facility, they could not go 449 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: forward with this um this lawsuit because it would it 450 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: would mean revealing things that were state secrets that could 451 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: endanger national security, and the judges have agreed with this 452 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 1: and dismissed cases on the basis that pursuing such a 453 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,959 Speaker 1: case would be a danger to national security, which has 454 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 1: led critics to point out, and I think rightfully so, 455 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: that this gives the government a get out of jail 456 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: free card, get out of accountability free cards. Sure, if 457 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: you are able to claim that whatever you did you 458 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 1: did in the name of national security and that having 459 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 1: to defend yourself would put that security at risk, and 460 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 1: that means you are no longer accountable, that's a terrible precedent. Yeah, 461 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: it's it's dangerous. And also on the other side, there 462 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: is a legitimate concern because I think this is a 463 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: big misstep on Uncle Sam's part because let's just construct 464 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: the speculative situation here. How did these people end up 465 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: getting exposed these toxic chemicals? They said they did not 466 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: have informed consent. Essentially, does that tie into the need 467 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: to know stuff? Were they concerned that if they said 468 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: what these chemicals are and their toxicity, this would somehow 469 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: get back to a foreign power. Yeah, and we've gotten 470 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 1: to a point now where everyone knows what is going 471 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: on at a high level at a right. You know, 472 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 1: Area fifty one is a testing grounds for new technology, 473 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,199 Speaker 1: specifically aircraft technology, whether it's manned or unmanned. We know 474 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 1: that that's a fact. So the question then becomes, well, 475 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: couldn't we have this case framed in such a way 476 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: where that where the specifics remain top secret. We don't 477 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 1: need to get into the specifics of what the vehicles were. 478 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: We we just need to address whether or not in 479 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: fact workers were exposed to toxic conditions without without sufficient 480 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: resources to deal with it. Law. Yeah, that that's really 481 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: all we have to to focus on, and then these 482 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: sort of questions could be answered that way. But that's 483 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: not how it played out, and in fact, uh, these 484 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: things have become even more of a concern in the 485 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: post nine eleven world where transparency is even harder to 486 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: come by in certain fields of government. So, you know, 487 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: you do have to balance out the transparency to the 488 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: national security, But when it comes down to people's lives 489 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 1: and saying well, you know this, this is this is 490 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: an example of where we could say the government is 491 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: wronging the citizens that it's supposed to represent. Then that 492 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: that's a whole other question. Now, it could end up 493 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: being that the government ends up accommodating various workers and 494 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: families and other ways that are very quiet that we 495 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: don't know about. That could happen, but we don't know that, right, 496 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: and the the implications I've seen suggest that that had 497 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: not happened. But moving on, Uh, you know, it's it's 498 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: I certainly don't want to be the one who has 499 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: to make the decisions, so I argue like this is 500 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: a simple thing, but clearly it's a very complex matter. 501 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: So in every fifty one would acquire two sites. These 502 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: are two of those sites that I had talked about 503 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: being kind of a problem for Area fifty one. Uh, 504 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 1: there was Freedom Ridge and white Side's Peak. Both of 505 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: those had been popular spots for people, and by popular, 506 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: I mean a few times a year, so folks would 507 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: go out there with binoculars. Um, these have been spots 508 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: where people would go and try and get a distant look. Yeah, 509 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: I think the closest you can get to Area fifty 510 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: one right now. And I may even be wrong about this, 511 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: It might not be that accurate at this point, but 512 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: I believe it's twenty six miles away right so you 513 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: cannot snatch a photograph and that's what you mean, there's 514 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: legally yeah, yeah, yeah, if you were to trespass, it 515 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: would be really stupid. And we're saying, we're not saying 516 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: do it. In fact, Jonathan, both you and I are 517 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: emphatically saying, don't ever go there unless you are specifically 518 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: invited told by someone who is in charge. If you 519 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: work there, go ahead and go. It's your job. So 520 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: um yeah, But at any rate, it's it's definitely one 521 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: of those things where if you are not invited, you 522 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: do not go are So in two thousand thirteen, there 523 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: was a declassified ci A document, actually a group of 524 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: documents that referred to Area fifty one by that very name. Again, 525 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: may have been a mistake that that part hadn't been 526 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: just blacked out. But Jonathan, this this two thousand thirteen thing, 527 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: which is very recent. It happened several several years after 528 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: another point, a legislative point that I think is very 529 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: important to underline. With some people's favorite presidents, some people's 530 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: least favorite president, our boy saxophonist extraordinaire, William Clinton, Yeah, 531 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: good old Bill So Clinton had signed an act into 532 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: law that puts Area fifty one beyond investigation and legislation 533 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: to preserve national security, which means there were a lot 534 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: of different organizations that were trying to get access out 535 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: of out of various concerns. You had people who were 536 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: concerned for the health of the workers, like the lawsuits 537 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: that we had mentioned. There are also environmental all concerns, 538 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: so environmentalists and environmental agencies that wanted to make sure 539 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 1: that the facility was following appropriate measures to make to 540 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: make sure it wasn't polluting the area, wasn't affecting water tables, 541 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: wasn't affecting the ecosystem. Because when you hear here things 542 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: like they're burning toxic materials, that raises a lot of flags. 543 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: And Clinton's Act essentially said it doesn't matter. You're not 544 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: gonna You're not gonna get the clearance to investigate this, 545 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: So whether something is going on or not, you're never 546 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: gonna know. And essentially every president since then has backed 547 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: that up, because again, it's one of those national security 548 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: issues where you say, all right, I have to make 549 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: a call. Do I call it on the side of 550 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: national security, which a lot of people think is kind 551 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 1: of a cop out answer. Yeah, Like it's again, like 552 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: it's a way to just avoid accountability. That's how it 553 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: can often be perceived. And maybe the truth is that, no, 554 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: it really is a matter of national security. It's just 555 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: hard to appreciate when you don't know, right and you 556 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: can't know because if you did know, it would no 557 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: longer be safe. And you don't know what you don't know, 558 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: the old unknown unknown, Yeah, exactly, So, Uh, well, we 559 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm pretty I'm pretty firm on what 560 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's it's a lot your authority on 561 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 1: what you Yeah, I could write a book on what 562 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: I don't know. But what you do know. Um, what 563 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: we have we've looked at here so far is that, um, 564 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: hopefully we've we've done a pretty bang up job of 565 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: going through the facts. You know enough, I think to 566 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: give us a hypothetical or high level look at what 567 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: it would be like if Jonathan Strickland worked at Groom 568 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 1: Lake and and and just uncle Sam, if you're listening, 569 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: he doesn't I do not know. But here here's kind 570 00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: of what it would sound like according to the few 571 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: accounts that we have that seemed credible. Keep in mind 572 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: there are a lot of people who have claimed to 573 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 1: have worked at Groom Lake at one time or another 574 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: who may or may not have actually worked at Groom Lake. 575 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: But let's say that. Let's say i'm i'm I'm working there. 576 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 1: This is kind of what the perhaps the the orientation 577 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 1: video would go. Hi, so you've decided to work at 578 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: Groom Lake. Welcome to the team. When you turn in 579 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: on Monday morning at the McCarron Airport in Las Vegas, 580 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 1: you'll go straight to a secret area. Well, you'll board 581 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 1: a Janet aircraft. Janet is the call sign. It's just 582 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 1: a white plane with a red stripe. Then it's just 583 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: a quick johnt to the airport over at Area fifty one. 584 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 1: You'll get off the aircraft and go straight to work. 585 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:47,240 Speaker 1: Don't look around because all that other stuff is secret. 586 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,759 Speaker 1: You will work exactly on the projects you've been assigned 587 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 1: and on nothing else. In your spare time, maybe you'd 588 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: like to play some baseball, perhaps tennis, go for a swim, 589 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: or visit a wonderful cafeteria. All the amenities you can 590 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 1: imagine are available at Area fifty one. So that would 591 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: be kind of the beginning. Yeah, that was great. I 592 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: hope I wasn't, but um, but yeah, everything you're saying 593 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: is is spot on? These seven thirty seven's are always 594 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: called Janets. Yeah, it's it's that's the call sign, so 595 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,879 Speaker 1: people refer to it as Janet Airlines, But these are 596 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:33,359 Speaker 1: that's not an official company name, it's that they contracted 597 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 1: seven thirty seven's. If you want to be a flight 598 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: attendant on one of these, you have to go through 599 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: the same sort of background check you would if you 600 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,959 Speaker 1: were to work at Area one. In fact, you would 601 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: have to make sure that you got that top secret 602 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: classification clearance because you were going to come into contact 603 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 1: with folks who are working on top secret projects. So 604 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,399 Speaker 1: you have to be you have to prove that you're trustworthy. 605 00:35:57,719 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: It's time for another quick break, but we will be 606 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: right back with more about the history of Area fifty one. 607 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: There are, like I said, some amenities. They have a gym, 608 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,840 Speaker 1: they've got a movie theater. The pool they use is 609 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 1: mostly used for training purposes for pilots to train for 610 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: what would happen if they eject over water. Yea, So 611 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: things like new flight suits that are designed for high 612 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,320 Speaker 1: altitude flying. You know, they had to make new flight 613 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 1: suits because people, pilots were suddenly flying at altitudes that 614 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 1: no human had ever gone to before, or at least 615 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,399 Speaker 1: not I had gone to for a sustained amount of time. Yeah, 616 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: so they had to they had to say, well, what 617 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: happens if they have to eject over water? Can they 618 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 1: get out? Is those suit going to weigh them down? 619 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: And the way they tested is they'd essentially have pilots 620 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 1: fall from a great height into a pool while wearing 621 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,320 Speaker 1: one of those bots, and they've tested out that way, 622 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,759 Speaker 1: so um so, probably not going for a pleasure swim, 623 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: although from what I understand, some of the some of 624 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: the people who are running who are running the programs, 625 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,320 Speaker 1: actually did have their pilots go for a swim first 626 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: before going on a a mission, just to help kind 627 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: of kind of focus themselves. So it all depends. The food, 628 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: like I said, was supposedly really good apparently, and I 629 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: have no idea if this is true, but apparently if 630 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: the test flight involved going to some remote location like Maine, 631 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 1: the pilots would sometimes bring back lobsters and so you 632 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 1: would end up being able to have fresh lobster them 633 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: and caught that morning in a desert in Nevada. But now, 634 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: of course, for people who are listening to the series, 635 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,839 Speaker 1: you notice that we've mentioned, the early planes were very, 636 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 1: very difficult and in some cases impossible to land to 637 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 1: stop over. So it just makes you think about how 638 00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,879 Speaker 1: far this technology has gone, because it makes me think 639 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,240 Speaker 1: where did they land these planes? Where? If you're working 640 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: on a top secret aircraft, where do you land in 641 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:08,840 Speaker 1: Maine where you could go pick up some lobster and 642 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: come back. I mean I heard the story, but I 643 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 1: just don't know how that worked. And how do you 644 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 1: give a lobster security clearance? Right? I mean those guys 645 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: loose mandible sink ships. But uh and and also I 646 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 1: mentioned that Area fifty one has a black budget project. 647 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 1: So there have been several people who have reported that 648 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 1: the way they were paid was in cash, that they 649 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 1: were not given a check, because a check would mean 650 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: that it's traceable to a specific organization, whatever that might be, 651 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: whether it's Lockheed or it's c I A or whatever. 652 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 1: Which that that happens in Yeah, yeah, No, you have 653 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 1: you have people who collect intelligence who just pour over paperwork. 654 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: Not all spying involves dressing in a tuxedo and betting 655 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: on black I mean some spying is pouring over countless 656 00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:01,120 Speaker 1: documents trying to look for hints at what's going on underneath. 657 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: In fact, yeah, yeah, a great deal. Of course, a 658 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,359 Speaker 1: lot of it now has been relegated to algorithms, which 659 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: means that the poor clerks don't have to do it anymore, 660 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 1: but at any rate. So you might get paid in cash, 661 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: and you might be told that whenever you sign for anything, 662 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 1: you have to use an assumed name Josh Clark. When 663 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,879 Speaker 1: I sign everything, Josh doesn't realize this be co signed 664 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: alone from my house. So, um, that's totally not true. 665 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:32,320 Speaker 1: Uh so, yeah, the it's they take their secrecy seriously 666 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: all the way from the very high level we're talking 667 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 1: like all that that restricted airspace that goes all the 668 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,720 Speaker 1: way up to space to how they pay the employees. Now, 669 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: that doesn't say that doesn't mean that everything we've said 670 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 1: today is accurate for how things work at Area fifty 671 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,920 Speaker 1: one today. Most of the information we have dates from 672 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 1: folks who are discussing things that happen back in the 673 00:39:55,120 --> 00:40:00,000 Speaker 1: sixties or seventies. Because they take the secrecy so serious 674 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,880 Speaker 1: lee and because people are signing over oaths that say 675 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 1: they will not under any circumstances share the information, it 676 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,719 Speaker 1: means that we don't have up to date information. Now, 677 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,359 Speaker 1: I imagine that most of what's going on at Area 678 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:19,760 Speaker 1: fifty one these days probably involves a lot more onmanned drones. 679 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 1: I think that's probably one of the big things that 680 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,680 Speaker 1: are under development there, and it really since it is 681 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: an aircraft facility, I imagine that that's mostly what we're seeing. 682 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: You know, there are a lot of people who suggest 683 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:35,879 Speaker 1: that other types of UH technology are under development Area 684 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 1: fifty one, but that's really not what it's set up 685 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 1: to do, right. Yeah, when you set up a facility 686 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,200 Speaker 1: like that there, it goes back to us talking about 687 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 1: the specialization of these various aircraft. The base is the same. 688 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 1: A base has to specialize. It can't be all things 689 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 1: to all projects. So, for instance, another an unmanned UH 690 00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 1: space project that's going on now, the X there five B. 691 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,719 Speaker 1: I think it is UH, and I'm gonna double check 692 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,279 Speaker 1: while we're talking here. UH. That is something that goes 693 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:12,160 Speaker 1: into space. It requires a platform capable of launching it 694 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 1: into near Earth orbit, right, So it was how would 695 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:17,480 Speaker 1: you do that? You wouldn't be able to do that 696 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,880 Speaker 1: at a facility like Area fifty one that doesn't have it, 697 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 1: and if it did have it, you would you know, 698 00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:24,359 Speaker 1: you would have to be further out than twenty five 699 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 1: miles to not notice exactly. So a lot of the 700 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:30,279 Speaker 1: I think a lot of the drones that you'll that 701 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,799 Speaker 1: would be under development at Area fifty one would either 702 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,120 Speaker 1: be lower altitude drones or they would be like the 703 00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 1: old D twenty one where it was launched from a 704 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,360 Speaker 1: larger vehicle. Right, Yeah, and we're talking about U A v. 705 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:46,239 Speaker 1: S at this point, the Predator or something. Yeah, but 706 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 1: the which is a name for you A v folks, 707 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: not the not the movie, right they that's actually uh, 708 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: Area fifty one is where they conceived and shot the Predator. 709 00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:00,479 Speaker 1: It's also the fantastic location for the film Into Pay Stay. 710 00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: Uh sorry, that's okay. So we are not done with 711 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: Area fifty one yet. We have covered the history as 712 00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,080 Speaker 1: much of the real history as is known that we 713 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,480 Speaker 1: can talk about. Um. There of course a lot more 714 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:19,239 Speaker 1: details on all of these stories, and there's some fantastic 715 00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,120 Speaker 1: books that have been written about the subject where people 716 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:25,720 Speaker 1: have meticulously researched all the available information and piece together 717 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 1: as much as they could to get as as close 718 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:29,520 Speaker 1: to a full story as you can get without being 719 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:33,359 Speaker 1: on the inside. But we aren't done there because in 720 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,319 Speaker 1: our next episode, Ben and I are going to uh, 721 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,600 Speaker 1: we're going to explore the mythology a Very fifty one 722 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,000 Speaker 1: and the fact that you know, in in pop culture, 723 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,040 Speaker 1: we think of it as not just a place where 724 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:49,200 Speaker 1: spy technology was tested or and is still tested, but 725 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:53,880 Speaker 1: a place where other worldly technology may resign. Right, yes, 726 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,880 Speaker 1: And that goes along with some of the some of 727 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,880 Speaker 1: the very very range things that you have probably heard 728 00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,640 Speaker 1: in your own day to day life about Area fifty one. 729 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:09,479 Speaker 1: When we say otherworldly, we don't just mean this dimension either. Yeah, 730 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,800 Speaker 1: it could. It could be pretty weird, and they range 731 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,840 Speaker 1: from things that you you could say, I can see 732 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:20,839 Speaker 1: why people believe that too. How is how was this 733 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,640 Speaker 1: ever an idea that someone had? Uh, There's a pretty 734 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,120 Speaker 1: pretty dynamic range there, So I look forward to having 735 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,520 Speaker 1: that discussion with you. Ben. We're going to end our 736 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:35,239 Speaker 1: recording for today and and conclude, but um, just just 737 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,680 Speaker 1: out of curiosity before we close the door on the 738 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,840 Speaker 1: the as much of the real story of Very fifty 739 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,360 Speaker 1: one as we can know, what do you think? What 740 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:45,400 Speaker 1: do you think about? What are your thoughts when you 741 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:50,239 Speaker 1: hear Area fifty one? Okay, yeah, thank you? The the 742 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:54,279 Speaker 1: gist of Area fifty one. We've we've explored us some 743 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 1: of the effects that secrecy have on people's the way 744 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,239 Speaker 1: they frame questions and the way they address you. UM, 745 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:05,200 Speaker 1: I think it's clear that there is a grain of 746 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:09,120 Speaker 1: truth to some of the beliefs, unfounded as they may 747 00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,799 Speaker 1: be about Area fifty one. We do know that there 748 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:16,000 Speaker 1: is secret technology being tested there, absolutely right. We know 749 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:20,200 Speaker 1: that it is. UM. It's it's not unreasonable to assume 750 00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,399 Speaker 1: that it is several years ahead of what we would 751 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:29,120 Speaker 1: consider current publicly known pioneering research. And I would add 752 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:33,839 Speaker 1: to that that UM, when we when we say that 753 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,400 Speaker 1: there is a grain of truth to these things, what 754 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,560 Speaker 1: we're talking about more is similar to a piece of 755 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:45,799 Speaker 1: sand getting inside of CShell building a pearl. There's so 756 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:51,160 Speaker 1: much embellishment that occurs that at some point people will 757 00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:57,480 Speaker 1: consciously dismiss the actual explanation. Where there's so much excitement 758 00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,200 Speaker 1: about the embellishment and people fall in love with these 759 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,040 Speaker 1: stories that it can be difficult at times for them 760 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:06,080 Speaker 1: to admit when we say, oh, we have found the 761 00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:09,160 Speaker 1: grain of sand called Project Mogul or something like right, 762 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:14,279 Speaker 1: and so as a result, we we run into what 763 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:19,680 Speaker 1: really is a new mythology that perpetuates itself, and honestly, 764 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,879 Speaker 1: the government is not helping with that at all. But then, 765 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:25,880 Speaker 1: to be fair, I think the government has a vested 766 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,080 Speaker 1: interest in letting that go as long as it needs 767 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:32,279 Speaker 1: to go, because if that means that the attention is 768 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,239 Speaker 1: put on something that is not real while they can 769 00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:40,920 Speaker 1: work on very real but very secret projects, it benefits, right, Like, 770 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,440 Speaker 1: there's there's not a whole lot of incentive to say 771 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,799 Speaker 1: you are completely wrong. And here's why when they could 772 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,600 Speaker 1: say we, you know, we have no comment on that, 773 00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:56,040 Speaker 1: which gives them the benefit of saying we didn't. We 774 00:45:56,080 --> 00:46:00,239 Speaker 1: didn't confirm it, we didn't really deny it strongly. I there, 775 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:02,480 Speaker 1: at the same time, we can continue our work on 776 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,560 Speaker 1: the very secret stuff that we actually need to develop. Um. 777 00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:07,840 Speaker 1: I personally think that such a such a facility like 778 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:12,160 Speaker 1: Area fifty one, in a world where spying is uh 779 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:19,160 Speaker 1: necessary evil, that it's absolutely the perfect, the perfect facility 780 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,320 Speaker 1: for that because it has stood the test of time. 781 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,680 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the idea of something that was 782 00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,799 Speaker 1: built in the fifties still maintaining this level of mystique, 783 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:32,360 Speaker 1: you know, five more than five decades later, is pretty incredible, 784 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,719 Speaker 1: So it's it's pretty It's a fascinating subject to me. 785 00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:41,560 Speaker 1: I love the idea of these engineers working to meet 786 00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,240 Speaker 1: seemingly unachievable goals. I mean, the idea of the idea 787 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:49,120 Speaker 1: of creating an aircraft that could defy radar was was 788 00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,200 Speaker 1: a real eye opener. And you know, you've got to 789 00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,440 Speaker 1: keep in mind that the United States had that technology 790 00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,960 Speaker 1: years before we ever had any public unveiling of it. 791 00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:01,040 Speaker 1: So that's pretty exciting stuff. And uh, I love the 792 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,520 Speaker 1: idea of it. I do think that the operation of 793 00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:07,880 Speaker 1: it lends itself to some potential misuses of power. I 794 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,560 Speaker 1: really do think that this, this use of national security 795 00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:16,279 Speaker 1: to kind of um distance yourself from any culpability is 796 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:20,319 Speaker 1: a little distasteful. Well yeah, I mean, national security is 797 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,279 Speaker 1: the way I like to think of it. Often in 798 00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,240 Speaker 1: the post nine eleven world, national security has been become 799 00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,759 Speaker 1: the equivalent of hitting base in the Great Game of 800 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:34,160 Speaker 1: Tag than this national discourse. So one one other thing 801 00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,520 Speaker 1: that I wanted to ask you, and again, as always, 802 00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,200 Speaker 1: thank you for having me on the show. I wanted 803 00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:44,239 Speaker 1: to ask you, do you think that people should be 804 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:48,680 Speaker 1: people who let me phrase this correctly, people I wanted 805 00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:53,120 Speaker 1: to ask you, what do you think about the scrutiny 806 00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,000 Speaker 1: regarding Area of Fife or Groom Lake, because it's pretty 807 00:47:56,040 --> 00:48:00,600 Speaker 1: well known right now, so I think that the question 808 00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:03,279 Speaker 1: is what else is out there? And my question is 809 00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:07,239 Speaker 1: do you think that there are other lesser known places 810 00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,080 Speaker 1: where um, not the bulk of the work, but other 811 00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,200 Speaker 1: work is taking place? Absolutely? Oh yeah. I mean Area 812 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,879 Speaker 1: fifty one is really a testing ground. So if you're 813 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:19,440 Speaker 1: talking about actual research and development to the point of 814 00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:23,200 Speaker 1: before you even built something, where you're just figuring out prototypes. 815 00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:27,040 Speaker 1: There are facilities all over the United States that are 816 00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,280 Speaker 1: involved in that in some way or another, Like Lockheed 817 00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:34,640 Speaker 1: has has areas that they have famously disguised from the 818 00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,399 Speaker 1: air so that you couldn't see what was going on 819 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,200 Speaker 1: or where where even a building was. But they're not 820 00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:41,959 Speaker 1: the only one by a long shot. I mean there's 821 00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:46,560 Speaker 1: their companies and organizations um, as well as as actual 822 00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:52,280 Speaker 1: military facilities that are just as secretive as Area fifty 823 00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,640 Speaker 1: one is, but perhaps don't have the same level of mystique, right. 824 00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:57,880 Speaker 1: I mean, when you're talking about aircraft and you're seeing 825 00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:03,520 Speaker 1: weird things fly overhead, that definitely brings some questions to mind. 826 00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,359 Speaker 1: If it's a facility that you can't really see and 827 00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,160 Speaker 1: all the stuff they do is ground related, it's not 828 00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,640 Speaker 1: going to gain that same level of attention. And that 829 00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,879 Speaker 1: wraps up this classic episode, the History of Area fifty one, 830 00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:19,000 Speaker 1: Part two. Next week we're going to go into some 831 00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:24,160 Speaker 1: of the more creative theories and hypotheses about what was 832 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,960 Speaker 1: going on at Area fifty one, So make sure you 833 00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,800 Speaker 1: tune into that. And if you have suggestions for topics 834 00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:33,319 Speaker 1: I should cover and current Tech Stuff episodes, reach out 835 00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,319 Speaker 1: to me. The best way to do that is over 836 00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,560 Speaker 1: on Twitter. The handle for the show is Text Stuff 837 00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:46,400 Speaker 1: hs W and I'll talk to you again. Release. Text 838 00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,839 Speaker 1: Stuff is an I Heart Radio production. For more podcasts 839 00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,640 Speaker 1: from my Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app, 840 00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,920 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.