Speaker 1: Welcome back to part two of our podcast with Patrick Boyd.
Speaker 2: Do you miss Part one?
Speaker 1: Check it out and learn about how Patrick got into
Speaker 1: the club making business and where's love of golf course
Speaker 1: architecture comes from. We got a lot of great feedback
Speaker 1: from everyone on part one that's been much appreciated, and
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed Part two with Patrick Boyd.
Speaker 3: I miss a green.
Speaker 4: For example, I'm already upset when I find my ball
Speaker 4: in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 5: And when I find my ball in a.
Speaker 4: Egg Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg, fridagggg bride egg lie,
Speaker 4: I'm about ready to run off the course.
Speaker 2: Sweetens is certainly in the fun category. Abandon is the fun.
Speaker 4: It's like being out there for four years completely changed
Speaker 4: my perception of golf and like how I value, like
Speaker 4: just how I appreciate and enjoy golf.
Speaker 2: What are the other most fun golf courses?
Speaker 3: The other most fun yeah that.
Speaker 2: You've played, Like, what are your like just the places
Speaker 2: that you know it might not be the best golf
Speaker 2: course from an architectural standpoint, if like you know you're
Speaker 2: looking at architect but like, what are the most fun
Speaker 2: places that you've.
Speaker 3: Played most fun.
Speaker 5: That's gonna take me a minute. Man.
Speaker 2: It's okay. We got minutes and hours and we can
Speaker 2: cutch up.
Speaker 4: I mean the thing, you know, I I think, you know,
Speaker 4: the two of us have kind of a mutual love
Speaker 4: of Seth Rainer and Stevie McDonald and Banks I have.
Speaker 4: I have so much fun going out and playing their
Speaker 4: golf courses because you kind of know what you're getting.
Speaker 4: But every course there's just there's just all these little
Speaker 4: nuances in every version of an Eden or a double
Speaker 4: Plateau or an Alps or where the strategies are going
Speaker 4: to be kind of similar but where they were built
Speaker 4: and the land is going to be different.
Speaker 5: That's I don't know. I have.
Speaker 4: I probably have my most fun playing their golf course
Speaker 4: is just because I just kind of enjoy maybe it's
Speaker 4: like the OCD in me or something. I just like
Speaker 4: enjoy the similarities and differences it's playing their courses.
Speaker 2: I think that's there's something to be said about. That's
Speaker 2: why everybody loves the Masters is they know what's coming.
Speaker 2: They know and and I think that's something that's you
Speaker 2: you know, it's in a sense, it's unique to them,
Speaker 2: even though a lot of people will say like their
Speaker 2: courses aren't unique, which is I think a horrible take.
Speaker 2: It's I think it's just a horrible take because I
Speaker 2: think a lot of a lot of the best holes
Speaker 2: at rain or courses and are the ones that aren't
Speaker 2: the templates.
Speaker 4: Oh dude, Like we've had this conversation how many times
Speaker 4: about the back nine at Short Acres.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and too.
Speaker 3: I means in general.
Speaker 5: Let you, eleven might be the best.
Speaker 4: Rader par five like anywhere?
Speaker 2: Fifteen?
Speaker 3: You mean fifty?
Speaker 4: I'm sorry fifteen yeah, fifth ypt Sorry, fifteen might be
Speaker 4: the best, right, dude? Eleven is just like it's just
Speaker 4: so awesome and dramatic and just I.
Speaker 2: Don't know, it's just a foundful.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it really, it's just an awesome It's an awesome brole.
Speaker 4: And I've seen people. I've seen people play from down
Speaker 4: below before too on eleven.
Speaker 2: Yes, Oh I've been down there.
Speaker 5: I saw somebody big park from down there.
Speaker 2: I've made par from down there. That's it.
Speaker 3: That's here, dude.
Speaker 2: I what do you hit off the TV?
Speaker 5: What do you hit off the TV that puts you there?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 2: I I know I can make par from down right?
Speaker 2: I know I can't. You can't. It's hard to make
Speaker 2: par if you pull it left. So if I'm gonna miss,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna fan it. I'm gonna fan it right, and
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go down there and I'm gonna have a
Speaker 2: completely blind shot. But it's like a it's one hundred
Speaker 2: and sixty yards or one hundred and fifty yard you
Speaker 2: can you can hit that shot onto the green, but
Speaker 2: like if you got to chip out, then you have
Speaker 2: all of a sudden half to the wedge close. So
Speaker 2: it's it's way better to miss. It's like one of
Speaker 2: those contradictory things. Missing right there, it looks like the
Speaker 2: worst place in the world to miss. It's not that bad,
Speaker 2: it's that's I think. It's kind of like what dope
Speaker 2: does I've never.
Speaker 4: Even like, I've never even considered walking up to that
Speaker 4: tea with the driver in my hands.
Speaker 2: Oh I never would hit driver, never, or like.
Speaker 4: I usually that's I hit I hit one iron a
Speaker 4: lot off of tease.
Speaker 3: Oh god, I.
Speaker 2: I played it the same. It was so fast. My
Speaker 2: buddy hit a hybrid and it ran like sixty yards
Speaker 2: into the end of the crap. It was. It was insane.
Speaker 2: It was the fastest golf course I think I've ever
Speaker 2: played in my life. The ball was literally like bouncing
Speaker 2: twenty feet off the ground and just running. It was,
Speaker 2: and it had this brown tinge. It was unbelieved. It
Speaker 2: was probably my favorite round of golf.
Speaker 5: H Oh, that's the tan. Is hard to be when
Speaker 5: you see the tan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've never seen a Chicago golf course play that way,
Speaker 2: and it was like the most beautiful thing in the world.
Speaker 2: But you know, it's uh that I just wish more
Speaker 2: places would embrace the tan.
Speaker 4: Such a dramatic it's such a dramatic change from that
Speaker 4: place from what it was like ten years ago to
Speaker 4: as far as just I mean obviously all the work
Speaker 4: they've done out there opening up the vistas, but mainly
Speaker 4: just how firm and fast they've been able to get
Speaker 4: it and keep it. I mean, that's golf to me, man,
Speaker 4: I you know, golf isn't golf without bounces.
Speaker 5: That's yeah. Yeah, it's unbelievable what they hit at that place.
Speaker 2: So you're moving out to abandon uh Oregon, Bend, Oregon? Yeah, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's uh. I always say I psychologically have moved to Bend. Yes, Sorr,
Speaker 2: but uh, what uh, how many times.
Speaker 5: Of people who move to Bend. It's a lot of
Speaker 5: people do move to bit.
Speaker 4: It's like it's been growing and there's there's there's a
Speaker 4: bit of golf out there. It's not banded.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but uh, what's your what's your power? How would
Speaker 2: you split ten rounds between those courses out there?
Speaker 4: You know, I'm embarrassed to say Old mac wasn't done.
Speaker 4: The last time I was out there when we when
Speaker 4: we had scratch and we were in Eugene, that place
Speaker 4: was almost it was almost a weekly adventure.
Speaker 5: We'd go out there. We go out there a lot.
Speaker 4: If I had to split, if I had to split
Speaker 4: ten rounds out there, I'd probably go like I'd probably
Speaker 4: play six.
Speaker 5: Of the Pacific. And this is like I said, I
Speaker 5: haven't played Old McDonald. The first thing I do when
Speaker 5: I get out.
Speaker 2: There, well you got one, you got one. You're gonna
Speaker 2: have one at Old McDonald regardless. So you got you
Speaker 2: got one, goes Old McDonald. And there's an asterisk that
Speaker 2: could be more.
Speaker 5: Okay.
Speaker 4: I saw that place.
Speaker 5: Ari and I used to walk that.
Speaker 4: Place when they were when they were building it, and
Speaker 4: we saw it kind of being built in and it's
Speaker 4: it's really an interesting thing.
Speaker 5: And yeah, a lot of people I know that.
Speaker 4: Are into architecture, when you ask them about that place,
Speaker 4: it's almost like a litmus test because like a lot
Speaker 4: of people I know just they aren't fans of it.
Speaker 5: I have. I've met fewer people that like it than
Speaker 5: than don't. But anyway, ten rounds out there, i'd probably go,
Speaker 5: I'd probably go six.
Speaker 4: I'd probably play six Inphiment Pacific, three of them at
Speaker 4: Trails and and the other one at uh Banded Dunes.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 4: I just not that I dislike not that I dislike
Speaker 4: Bandon Dunes, but I just like Pacific and Trails so
Speaker 4: much more.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a that's the thing with those. It's like
Speaker 2: it's like picking. Uh. I always say this, like it's
Speaker 2: kind of one of the things I think about with
Speaker 2: courses is like there's certain courses like once you get
Speaker 2: into a certain tier, it's like it's like picking which
Speaker 2: supermodel is the most beautiful. It's like everybody's going to
Speaker 2: have a different opinion.
Speaker 5: Oh it's like, oh, yeah, I agree, realize.
Speaker 4: It's like that's what you talk to anybody too about
Speaker 4: what you know their their top courses are their top five.
Speaker 4: It's like when you when you talk to that, you
Speaker 4: know you're you're flavoring it a lot with your personal preferences.
Speaker 4: Some people like Furman Fast, some people don't like Furman Fast.
Speaker 4: Some people like corridors, some people like with there's you know,
Speaker 4: just everything's kind of colored with your preference at some
Speaker 4: point when you're.
Speaker 5: Talking about golf. But hey, a question I've played, man, Yeah.
Speaker 2: A question I asked a ton of people is who
Speaker 2: do you You already brought up Rainer MacDonald, Who's the
Speaker 2: most Who's the most underappreciated architect.
Speaker 4: Most underappreciated. You know, I'm a fan of Perry Maxwell.
Speaker 4: I think Perry Maxwell kind of fills that kind of
Speaker 4: fills that spot. This is kind of like the secret
Speaker 4: sauce on like a lot of golf courses. I just
Speaker 4: you know, I think I think the world of prairie
Speaker 4: dunes and anything of his that I've seen these touched
Speaker 4: and you know, I mean, Crystal Down's got man one
Speaker 4: of the best sets of greens I've seen really anywhere.
Speaker 5: Although they like they.
Speaker 4: You know, they bristle, they're all about like the Mackenzie
Speaker 4: heritage there. But like I think Perry is Harry's pretty Uh,
Speaker 4: I think he's pretty underrated or just underappreciated.
Speaker 3: Maybe yeah, yeah he I know Who's who's it for you? Langford?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm like I'm a Langford Moreau tragic at
Speaker 2: this point I think about Langford.
Speaker 4: Banks is like another one too that like nobody really
Speaker 4: talks about. I think Banks doesn't get the great Banks
Speaker 4: doesn't get a lot of love. And again there aren't
Speaker 4: like a ton of like great well you got like
Speaker 4: Whipperwill for his gate.
Speaker 2: Somebody told me about this Francis Byrne place in New Jersey.
Speaker 2: Francis Byrne. It's like apparently Essex County used to own
Speaker 2: it in New Jersey and it's uh, it's forty five
Speaker 2: buck public course and it's a it's a it's a
Speaker 2: it's a bank. So I think I think the first
Speaker 2: hole is like a road hole. The second holes of
Speaker 2: Burritz like it's apparently really cool. It's forty five dollars
Speaker 2: you can go see like mcrain or it's not my
Speaker 2: my high on my list of.
Speaker 5: Have you have you played essex is good? Have you
Speaker 5: played essex?
Speaker 4: Essex's essex is good as well?
Speaker 2: Up in Massachusetts or in New Jersey.
Speaker 5: In New Jersey, that's.
Speaker 2: A Tilling hass right, No, Ross.
Speaker 3: Banks, it's a it's a Banks.
Speaker 2: I've seen that thing listed. I think they've had like
Speaker 2: four people with killing.
Speaker 4: It's like a Tilling tilling house Bak. I've seen like
Speaker 4: killing ass back. There are two courses there, and I
Speaker 4: think I think what you're talking about was part of
Speaker 4: maybe the part of the original. There was thirty six
Speaker 4: there originally.
Speaker 5: I bet you that was part of I bet you
Speaker 5: that was part of it.
Speaker 2: Well, the thing with those with Langford, Moreau and Banks,
Speaker 2: I feel like they came to the height of their
Speaker 2: powers at the worst time the depression hit, and then
Speaker 2: post depression people were like, how the hell are we
Speaker 2: supposed to maintain this stuff? And they just didn't understand and.
Speaker 5: So much and then so much of it went away
Speaker 5: because of that.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, you play, you play those courses and
Speaker 4: you see you see what you see. You see very
Speaker 4: clearly defined areas that were once about. You know, this
Speaker 4: was obviously a bunker, this was obviously this, but you know,
Speaker 4: they just kind of taken them.
Speaker 5: They've taken them out over the years because they just
Speaker 5: don't see why it's there. But yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's just like the thing I think it
Speaker 2: is like they were like they kind of turned it
Speaker 2: up a whole nother notch and then it's like, the uh,
Speaker 2: society was like, this is unfair. That's what I kind
Speaker 2: of think is like I feel like Yale started that
Speaker 2: and then everybody but everybody that saw it after the
Speaker 2: World War two was like, this is unfair. It's like
Speaker 2: the fair the fair thing.
Speaker 4: Well the people, and then and then trees, and then
Speaker 4: trees started to become Then then clubs started planting trees,
Speaker 4: and courses lost a lot of width and character. And
Speaker 4: I mean that whole kind of that whole stranglehold started
Speaker 4: in the what the fifties, the sixties.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Hogan, the Hogan effect. Yeah's I feel like
Speaker 2: Ben Hogan had like a lasting effect on golf course design.
Speaker 4: Or just in that sense just how just like what
Speaker 4: they did to Oakland Hills, what RTG did Oakland Hills,
Speaker 4: which you know was apparently the nastiest open course ever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's uh, what you know, talking going back
Speaker 2: to Maxwell, I feel like what you said about Crystal Downs,
Speaker 2: there's there's so many similarities with Prairie dunes and Crystal Downs.
Speaker 5: You know, yeah, of course. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean I said, man, secret sauce. He's a secret sauce.
Speaker 2: That's I think, got it. I think about that with
Speaker 2: Mackenzie all the time. He had Perry Maxwell and he
Speaker 2: had Rap Hunter Rap. Hunter was kind of just like Maxwell.
Speaker 2: It makes sense if you're going to do great work,
Speaker 2: you need great people.
Speaker 4: And Hunter worked with him on pretty much everything in California.
Speaker 3: Didn't he.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Hunter was the reason that he came
Speaker 2: to America in the first.
Speaker 5: He came over.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they did in Meata and then Meadow was
Speaker 4: the first project that they did. M h And Yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean that's that man. I was spoiled growing up
Speaker 4: just knowing all that stuff was out there. I didn't
Speaker 4: play Meto until I don't know, probably about fifteen years
Speaker 4: ago or so, but like just having Pasa and then
Speaker 4: you know Sharp just you know, I get out to
Speaker 4: Sharp once in a while and you just kind of.
Speaker 5: See little bits and pieces of really cool stuff out.
Speaker 4: There, and then you know, Green Hills was another one obviously. Northwood, Yeah, Northwood.
Speaker 4: I love the story of Northwood. Northwood was built for
Speaker 4: the Bohemian Club originally because their camp.
Speaker 3: But the Bohemian grown up out there.
Speaker 4: It's in Monto Rio, yeah, and the course was originally
Speaker 4: built for them, and then it just I want to
Speaker 4: get out there because we used to go We used
Speaker 4: to go out there. We used to go out to
Speaker 4: the coast a lot.
Speaker 5: Growing up, and and I've driven by the course my dad.
Speaker 4: My dad was a Bohemian and I saw the course
Speaker 4: a few times going going to the grove. But we
Speaker 4: used to stay out out of Sea Ranch, like around
Speaker 4: the holidays, and I always wanted to go up there,
Speaker 4: but I never made it. I just was complacent and
Speaker 4: played a lot of golf at Sea Ranch.
Speaker 2: I don't think that's that far from band So you know.
Speaker 4: It's a way south, like it's probably if you if
Speaker 4: you took one straight down, I bet you, it's probably
Speaker 4: a five to six hour drive straight down one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that far. You know people do that for sweet.
Speaker 5: I'll hit it. I'll meet you. I know they too, dude,
Speaker 5: I've done it.
Speaker 4: I mean, like man, I the day before that, I
Speaker 4: don't did I. I told you the day before the Ringer,
Speaker 4: I drove up to play Moraine before they punched it,
Speaker 4: before they punched it for the winner I drove up,
Speaker 4: I drove up, I played thirty six, and I drove
Speaker 4: back and then the ringer was the next day.
Speaker 5: It was like that was like a ten hour No, no,
Speaker 5: it was more than that.
Speaker 4: That was like, that was like a twelve hour round trip.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean that's just for thirty just for thirty six.
Speaker 2: That's that's what a true golf lunatic will do.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 5: It's like, oh, dude, there's there's this one trip we took.
Speaker 5: I think I told you this.
Speaker 4: There's one trip we took.
Speaker 5: We rented a car.
Speaker 4: It's like when we had Scratch, we had all these appointments,
Speaker 4: like all over this was like a pull of their
Speaker 4: story in itself.
Speaker 5: But we rented a car.
Speaker 4: We were gone for two weeks. We went and went
Speaker 4: to thirteen states. We were five thousand miles on this
Speaker 4: rental car. And I think we went to I think
Speaker 4: we drove to Yale, like we had Yale playing on.
Speaker 5: The trip, but we drove back there.
Speaker 4: I think two more times in that trip when we
Speaker 4: were like absolutely nowhere near it because we couldn't think
Speaker 4: of anywhere else we'd want to play more than Yale.
Speaker 2: I yeah, I love Yale so much. Like it's just
Speaker 2: the best. I don't think there's like it's there. It's
Speaker 2: as good as anything else in the world in the country, dude,
Speaker 2: with like.
Speaker 4: A little TLC that place could be just like tops,
Speaker 4: Like it's it's just it's it's just a gigantic golf
Speaker 4: course on this awesome piece of land. It's rough around
Speaker 4: the edges. There's a few things that they could update.
Speaker 4: There's really I mean, but I'm with you, and I
Speaker 4: know I know a lot of guys that have played
Speaker 4: a lot of a lot of McDonald's Reiner golf courses.
Speaker 4: It put that at the very top. I have one
Speaker 4: friend that likes it more than National. So it's just
Speaker 4: it's just it's just and what can you really do
Speaker 4: because the university owns a golf course, you know? I mean,
Speaker 4: that's that's like the stumbling point. That's like the that's
Speaker 4: like the dilemma. I mean, you move three Green back
Speaker 4: to where.
Speaker 5: It was originally?
Speaker 4: Do you do a few other You have a double
Speaker 4: punch bowl.
Speaker 2: On the pond, fix the bunkers.
Speaker 3: Fix the bunkers.
Speaker 5: Uh, you.
Speaker 2: Man, it's about that.
Speaker 4: Restore restore eighteen green. You see pictures of eighteen Green,
Speaker 4: How eighteen Green there was originally and it was like
Speaker 4: freaking wild. It was like, I don't know, it looks
Speaker 4: like it was probably like twelve thousand square feet. The
Speaker 4: bunkers were just like gnarly all around it.
Speaker 2: What do you think of eighteen?
Speaker 4: It's I don't know, man, it's kind of a polarizing hole.
Speaker 4: It's not I mean, I don't know. It's not it's
Speaker 4: not my favorite finishing hole. It's not a bad hole.
Speaker 4: It's just not my favorite finishing hole.
Speaker 2: It's are they do you?
Speaker 5: What do you think of eighteen? What do you think
Speaker 5: of eighteen?
Speaker 2: I love it?
Speaker 3: I just see you? You know what?
Speaker 2: I you like blind?
Speaker 4: Just you like that uphill blind blind t shot par five.
Speaker 2: Here's here's my thing. Here's my thing. It's like that
Speaker 2: whole place is like to me, if you're a if
Speaker 2: you're a fair police golfer, you're gonna hate that place
Speaker 2: if you if you believe in in overcoming obstacles and
Speaker 2: and that golf is not a fair game.
Speaker 3: Fair police.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the fair police. That's my new term. It's
Speaker 2: the same, like the fair police are the people that
Speaker 2: thought it was ridiculous that when some player in the
Speaker 2: US Open short sides themselves into a downslope in the
Speaker 2: worst possible position on a hole and can't hold the
Speaker 2: green out of the bunker. That it's unfair that like, oh,
Speaker 2: you hit it in the worst place you possibly could
Speaker 2: and you can't hold the green. That's like, that's perfectly fair.
Speaker 2: That's the fair. Police, I'm.
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.
Speaker 3: You finish thought that's the fair.
Speaker 2: So like to me, I think I've started to think
Speaker 2: about golf architecture, and I think, like you know, when
Speaker 2: when you have something that's not overly hard, like I
Speaker 2: don't think the eighteenth that Yale is overly hard. It's hard.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't say it's overly hard, it's ale.
Speaker 2: But if forces in extreme discomfort, the better the player
Speaker 2: you are, Like I feel like a twenty handicap, Like
Speaker 2: it doesn't make any difference to them, you know, they're
Speaker 2: just it's really wide, it's really open. It's hard to
Speaker 2: lose a golf ball in the hole. But like for
Speaker 2: a good player, like it's the most uncomfortable, excruciatingly painful
Speaker 2: finishing par five, and that that's great, that it fits
Speaker 2: the character of the golf course so well.
Speaker 3: Excruciating.
Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, I disagree with you, but it's a
Speaker 5: pretty severe.
Speaker 2: I mean the last time I played the last time
Speaker 2: I played it, I hit like I was like I
Speaker 2: was over right over the mound, like and I'm standing
Speaker 2: there and I have.
Speaker 4: The hickory You didn't have the hickory driver in your
Speaker 4: hand there, did you?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: I played I played one round with a hickory ballatta
Speaker 2: it was you did okay, I barely. I carried I
Speaker 2: carried the water on one by like two yards like
Speaker 2: and it makes you think back to like when nineteen
Speaker 2: twenty five or twenty I played that place.
Speaker 4: With I played that place with per Simmon and modern
Speaker 4: ball I I I but yeah, I can't imagine I
Speaker 4: just with that's it's just over and you you're pretty long,
Speaker 4: and you're pretty.
Speaker 5: Long with technology.
Speaker 2: Yes, so that's you know, but it gives you ninety
Speaker 2: people could imagine playing it in a suit coat, Yeah,
Speaker 2: like it would It had to be impossible.
Speaker 5: With a wooden with a wooden shaft.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I think about.
Speaker 4: All that went the ball that went like ten ten
Speaker 4: fifteen shorter than that ballata ball.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's like, you know, that's that's the way
Speaker 2: I look at it, is like, oh, we have it
Speaker 2: so easy now, Like if you want to tell you
Speaker 2: want to say that it's unfair, like that's that's crazy
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 5: Well, dude, I don't.
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know about I'm sure you probably
Speaker 4: agree with me, but like, man, that's like to me,
Speaker 4: that's like the greatest enjoyment. When you play with Hickory's
Speaker 4: and per Simmon and Steel and you go out and
Speaker 4: you like play a good round with that stuff, it's
Speaker 4: like it's just like hard thought, like it's just it
Speaker 4: It just I don't know, just makes it feel that
Speaker 4: much sweeter, like shooting a decent round with that equipment,
Speaker 4: Like it's it's just it's so rewarding, at least it
Speaker 4: is to me when I play with that stuff, like
Speaker 4: I play good round with that, it's like, Wow, I
Speaker 4: played with one hundred year old golf clubs and you
Speaker 4: know this is what I broke eighty with them, Like wow,
Speaker 4: that's pretty impressive.
Speaker 2: That the uh, you know, the par fives is where
Speaker 2: I recognize the biggest difference.
Speaker 5: Because you're not going to hit a lot. You're not
Speaker 5: hitting a lot of them in.
Speaker 4: Two Like none of them unless you're really good with
Speaker 4: driver off the deck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to hit like a really good shots
Speaker 2: to make a birdie. And it's such a paradigm shift
Speaker 2: from you know what it is today you want to
Speaker 2: do overrated? Underrated? Sure, all right, we're gonna start with.
Speaker 4: You know how we feel about are, how I feel
Speaker 4: about pebble, overrated, underrated courses, architects.
Speaker 2: What bermuda grass?
Speaker 5: I know how you feel about it.
Speaker 4: I mean I've been thinking about it. Obviously, Like living
Speaker 4: in the South, you don't really.
Speaker 5: Have a lot of alternatives. So it is what it is.
Speaker 5: But it has its.
Speaker 4: Shortcomings as far as how sticky it is around the greens.
Speaker 5: Uh, but it just grows andy, that's the thing. It's
Speaker 5: just it's hard.
Speaker 4: It's hard to like under underrated or over it. It
Speaker 4: It just yeah, it's it's like the most like four
Speaker 4: nineteen is like a super weed. It'll grow like through
Speaker 4: a sidewalk. So I don't, I don't, I mean, I
Speaker 4: don't know rated.
Speaker 5: How's that you can't do that?
Speaker 2: Added? Accept will answer, I'll side.
Speaker 4: With you because I mean there's other surfaces that I
Speaker 4: obviously like playing better. So I'll say it's I'll say
Speaker 4: it's overrated fun when is dormant dry? Dormant dry though, baby,
Speaker 4: that's about as fun as it gets on Bermuda.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're turning your back on the South. Just think
Speaker 2: about that. Let's uh what about agent?
Speaker 5: What was the first golf What was the first golf
Speaker 5: course you played? It was all fescue like Bandon.
Speaker 2: I don't even know, to be honest, I I do not.
Speaker 2: I don't have awareness to when when the first course
Speaker 2: I played. It could have been when I was a kid.
Speaker 4: You were you weren't you weren't woke at that point.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm sure I played one when I was
Speaker 2: a kid, but I wouldn't have known, you know, Like,
Speaker 2: what about uh what about A W. Tilling Hast?
Speaker 4: I mean he obviously did some great work. Then again,
Speaker 4: he did a lot of stuff like in the thirties
Speaker 4: during like did he he did a lot of WPA
Speaker 4: projects removing fairway punkers from golf course. It's yeah, great
Speaker 4: green complexes, but I don't know. I mean, SF's pretty awesome.
Speaker 4: I haven't played a ton of his stuff. I've played
Speaker 4: San Francisco probably a dozen times or so, and it's
Speaker 4: pretty fantastic.
Speaker 5: But I don't know. I probably air towards overrated, all right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I uh, I haven't seen enough of his stuff.
Speaker 2: I got to do a big Northeast trip where I
Speaker 2: just crank out. Sometimes I played.
Speaker 4: I mean, I I've played a SF. I've played a
Speaker 4: SF about a dozen times. I've played. I played Philly
Speaker 4: Cricket before they did work out there. I know there's
Speaker 4: a few more of his courses that I've played. I'm
Speaker 4: trying to think off the top of my head.
Speaker 3: But what about you, guys?
Speaker 5: What about Ross? What's your stand? What about Ross? What
Speaker 5: do you think about Ross? I think underrated.
Speaker 2: I think he's underrated because he did so many courses
Speaker 2: and like none of them really.
Speaker 3: Stink, No, none of them, none of them they all.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm with you one hundred percent. And it's just
Speaker 4: it's so weird when people like talk about, like, you know, oh,
Speaker 4: Ross number two, number two, but number two is kind
Speaker 4: of a typical, and you know, number two is kind
Speaker 4: of a typical of most of his other golf courses.
Speaker 4: I think Ross is delicious, man. I played a lot
Speaker 4: of great Ross golf courses and I have not yet
Speaker 4: to see a bad Ross golf course.
Speaker 2: What about the North Carolina sand Hills.
Speaker 4: I'm embarrassed to say this, but I have not been
Speaker 4: out there yet. I've lived out here for nine years.
Speaker 5: I have not been out there yet.
Speaker 4: I've been trying to get out there before I move
Speaker 4: out of here, but I haven't been out there.
Speaker 5: And there's a lot I need to see out there.
Speaker 2: What about what about uh the PXG troops.
Speaker 4: I'll tell you something, Man, if Bob Parsons was in
Speaker 4: front of me right now, I would probably like knock
Speaker 4: him over with a bear hug, just thanking him so
Speaker 4: much for what he's done for just how golf equipment
Speaker 4: is perceived and sold these days. He's like the patron
Speaker 4: saint to me of like all these boutique brands, because
Speaker 4: if he wasn't doing what he did, because I mean
Speaker 4: I had some some works, you know, we were we
Speaker 4: were doing him be custom products, similar price point, but
Speaker 4: we were really an outlier. There was nobody else that
Speaker 4: was offering something similar. It was more expensive, and you
Speaker 4: know kind of you know, it's the stumbling point. Well,
Speaker 4: you know, all of a sudden, you know there's golf
Speaker 4: clubs on the market that are the market accepts that
Speaker 4: are you know, three thousand dollars or so for a
Speaker 4: three through pitch set, and there's wedges that are seven
Speaker 4: hundred dollars and people are buying them all of a sudden.
Speaker 4: These boutique brands have an opportunity to have a foothold
Speaker 4: in the market to offer something completely different than what
Speaker 4: they do. So I mean in that sense, I'm a man.
Speaker 4: I'm a huge supporter of a huge supporter.
Speaker 5: There's in that regard.
Speaker 4: And I mean, you know their equipments they make, they
Speaker 4: make a nice piece of equipment if you you know,
Speaker 4: if you're really into technology and you know fast faces
Speaker 4: and forgiveness, yeah, okay, and high bound they their irons
Speaker 4: are pretty high bounds.
Speaker 2: But there is kind of like, uh, I have a
Speaker 2: lot of like hipster coffee joints by me, and then
Speaker 2: you go in them and you hear the people like,
Speaker 2: you know, they loathe like Starbucks, and it's like you're
Speaker 2: in business because of Starbucks. Like they made it past. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they made it acceptable to charge three dollars for a
Speaker 2: cup of coffee, four dollars, five dollars for a cup
Speaker 2: of coffee. Like that's why people come to your place
Speaker 2: now because they realize, like, hey, you've got a better
Speaker 2: product than Starbucks. Like they they're they're the Gateway drug.
Speaker 2: P XG is probably very similar for I never had
Speaker 2: thought about that before.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a it's i mean, they they That was
Speaker 4: a huge paradigm shift in the market as far as
Speaker 4: how you know, the price point that people accepted to
Speaker 4: buy golf clubs.
Speaker 5: It it really changed.
Speaker 4: I mean we had, you know, five years ago when
Speaker 4: Scratch was around, this was you know, it was a
Speaker 4: much harder proposition. And now you know, the price point
Speaker 4: that we're at with what we sell, it's you know,
Speaker 4: people are willing to pay it because you know, we
Speaker 4: offer we offer you know, very very different product from
Speaker 4: I mean it's very traditional. We make golf clubs like
Speaker 4: they were made fifty sixty years ago. But if businesses,
Speaker 4: you know, they weren't around, who knows, I don't. I
Speaker 4: don't necessarily know that there would be the market that
Speaker 4: there is now for that stuff because of you know,
Speaker 4: just being you know, being an option.
Speaker 5: And being completely different from from them.
Speaker 4: I mean it's just about anything needs a foil I
Speaker 4: think to be you know successful.
Speaker 2: But uh so, uh let me ask you this question,
Speaker 2: if you could bring back you know, one piece of
Speaker 2: golf equipment, like one club from the you know, yesteryear
Speaker 2: and make it like in Vogue again, what would it be?
Speaker 2: And then what was what was the worst? What was
Speaker 2: the what was the most gimmicky concept of say the
Speaker 2: nineties and two thousands.
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know, because there's not just like
Speaker 4: one club I can just think of. I mean, I
Speaker 4: wish people would like embrace or at least go out
Speaker 4: and try playing golf with with vintage golf equipment. So
Speaker 4: my club would be like probably just that genre of
Speaker 4: per simon head steel shaft or wooden shaft.
Speaker 5: I just think it adds a lot.
Speaker 4: Of value and appreciation of golf, and I think a
Speaker 4: lot of people should at least just try it and
Speaker 4: just gain an understanding of what playing golf is like
Speaker 4: with that stuff. U And I mean I've kind of
Speaker 4: made a pledge to myself next year to I'm probably
Speaker 4: going to play all next year.
Speaker 5: With just for simmon. I mean, I don't know why not.
Speaker 4: So if you want in on that, Batman, let me know, Uh,
Speaker 4: the worst most gimmicky.
Speaker 5: Man there are?
Speaker 4: There are so many, and it's like because you can
Speaker 4: pick all kinds of them, like Callaway had that that
Speaker 4: C four driver that was like there river like the thing. Yes,
Speaker 4: it was like it was horrible, but like the thing
Speaker 4: is is like they took what they learned making that driver,
Speaker 4: and then the first like composite like metal and carbon.
Speaker 3: Driver was next.
Speaker 4: Like the first fusion driver came out right, I was
Speaker 4: like this quantumly it was like, oh, let's just make
Speaker 4: this like it's just like horrible, horrible driver and learn
Speaker 4: about this technology and then apply what we learned into
Speaker 4: something that's actually really good. Because that first fusion driver
Speaker 4: was it was a pretty big deal when it came
Speaker 4: out that that.
Speaker 2: Caravan driver was like the worst feeling driver.
Speaker 5: Dude, it was horrible. It was it was terrible.
Speaker 2: You know, club that you didn't mention in the The
Speaker 2: five most influential thing was the club was the ping
Speaker 2: T s I s I driver. Remember that one, the
Speaker 2: black one?
Speaker 5: Oh I do remember that one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that had the had the plastic hozzle and had
Speaker 4: the K on the crown. That thing was a pretty
Speaker 4: big deal when it came out, and that was.
Speaker 2: Like everybody used that.
Speaker 4: That was like early two thousands. Yeah, that was pretty popular.
Speaker 2: M M.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: We could I could talk about that if you wanted to,
Speaker 4: Like that's like a that's like a many hours conversation,
Speaker 4: and I don't think we had many hours to talk
Speaker 4: about it. Yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot
Speaker 4: of stuff.
Speaker 5: There's a lot of there's a lot of little stuff
Speaker 5: like that, like you know.
Speaker 2: What about the person and like oh with the diamond.
Speaker 5: Had the diamond, the diamond the diamond dust.
Speaker 4: On the faces and then the car byte was the
Speaker 4: other one. Taylor made made a wedge like that that
Speaker 4: had the car byte face.
Speaker 2: They had the Nubbins too with the basketball.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, no, yes, I do actually think that somebody
Speaker 4: left the Nubbins at Sweeten's Cove and it may may
Speaker 4: still be out there. Dude, I've out fell over when
Speaker 4: it showed up. I was like, you gotta be kidding me.
Speaker 4: There's somebody that's still rolling a Nubbins. But yeah, Taylor
Speaker 4: made had those balls, the innergel ball that even those
Speaker 4: plastic tubes. Oh I forgot so weird and like unpredictable.
Speaker 4: Like that's like the greatest thing about golf equipment, man,
Speaker 4: is like its just it brings out the scientists and
Speaker 4: engineer and like everybody and the weirdest.
Speaker 5: Thing is is like, so you know, I've been like
Speaker 5: on that side.
Speaker 3: Of the business for like fifteen years now. It's like, dude,
Speaker 3: nothing is new.
Speaker 4: Like guys were trying to do this, they were blacksmiths,
Speaker 4: but like the technology and manufacturing methods didn't really exist
Speaker 4: to really.
Speaker 5: Do the designs that they had in mind. And it's
Speaker 5: it's it's just.
Speaker 4: It's unbelievable to me when you look at all this vintage,
Speaker 4: old antique stuff and you look at almost everything's been
Speaker 4: tried before, and it's.
Speaker 5: Just these just things just keep people just keep trying
Speaker 5: the same ideas.
Speaker 4: The fascinating thing to me is like when you when
Speaker 4: you're talking about blades, all the really good blade designs
Speaker 4: you see over and over again, like you you you
Speaker 4: know you ever noticed like if you look at almost
Speaker 4: any like OEM blade like single line cut, low center
Speaker 4: of gravity, like almost every single one of them to
Speaker 4: a t, is that design because.
Speaker 5: It works pretty well?
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's it's just you know, I don't know it's
Speaker 2: irons are irons are? You know? Like so much I
Speaker 2: think I feel like irons have it. You need to
Speaker 2: like the way it looks, you know, I got a
Speaker 2: funny story about a club. I was playing the remember something.
Speaker 4: Horrible, Yeah, finish your story of I I just remembered
Speaker 4: something absolutely horrible from the nineties.
Speaker 5: To go ahead.
Speaker 2: So I'm playing my practice round at the mid Am
Speaker 2: and on one of the t's somebody left a Warrior Hybrid,
Speaker 2: a Warrior.
Speaker 4: One of the ones that they set you one of
Speaker 4: the ones that they set you free in the mail.
Speaker 2: Yeah. At a USGA event, somebody was gaming a Warrior.
Speaker 5: Maybe it just.
Speaker 4: Fit that gap in his bag really well, you never know, man,
Speaker 4: It's like with Yeah, it's like, man, I tell people
Speaker 4: all the time with Fairway Woods, Like, man, you find
Speaker 4: good Fairie Woods, they're.
Speaker 3: Like old friends.
Speaker 4: You don't kick them out of the bag because you're
Speaker 4: you know, you just don't find.
Speaker 2: Like Zonar Tech. This is the best one they made.
Speaker 5: Great they made They made some really great stuff. Back
Speaker 5: in the day.
Speaker 4: They had the SS series that had all the different
Speaker 4: face profiles. There was the one, two, the three, There
Speaker 4: was a two five, the three five, There was the
Speaker 4: S S O seven that had the adjustable hozzle.
Speaker 3: There was the MP ninety nine.
Speaker 4: It was the had like the gold ring on the
Speaker 4: outside and the kind of purplish metallic paint.
Speaker 5: Maybe really good stuff.
Speaker 4: I had a TRC which was like they're kind of hybrid.
Speaker 4: I had one of those in my bag for a
Speaker 4: long time.
Speaker 5: I still have it somewhere.
Speaker 2: I had the SSO three with like an acroshaft. It
Speaker 2: was just a beast.
Speaker 4: I was just like a best off there, like a
Speaker 4: beast off the tea. It wasn't the easiest off the deck,
Speaker 4: but it was just an absolute beast off the tea.
Speaker 2: Things like that.
Speaker 4: Do you remember the Atoms the Atoms fifty to fifty.
Speaker 5: That was like that too.
Speaker 4: It was just like man, it was just a deep,
Speaker 4: deep head. And then Adams came out with the Beat.
Speaker 4: The bt Y came out after, and that was another man.
Speaker 4: Those things were bombers.
Speaker 2: All I remember, like a great product. When it came out.
Speaker 4: It was build the building, you know. Adams built that
Speaker 4: entire company around that single product. Yeah, it's pretty unbelievable
Speaker 4: because I remember like the stuff.
Speaker 5: That they had like early or.
Speaker 4: Like late late eighties, early nineties. They had like the
Speaker 4: airossol I remember what other They didn't really have anything
Speaker 4: that was like, oh my god, And then that came out.
Speaker 4: It was like we took a fairy wood and we
Speaker 4: flipped it upside down and it.
Speaker 5: Really really works, and it really really worked, and they
Speaker 5: built it.
Speaker 4: You know, they built an entire business on that. Do
Speaker 4: you remember. Do you remember in the nineties yon X
Speaker 4: and I think Yamaha and Marimon they made irons that
Speaker 4: the heads were carbon fiber kevlar. Yah Marriman had the
Speaker 4: DCA where they were kevlar. That was a really those
Speaker 4: were really weird talking about that stuff because there was
Speaker 4: I remember there was a member at my club and
Speaker 4: he would literally like every three or four months, he
Speaker 4: would hit so many balls he'd have to send his
Speaker 4: seven iron or whatever back to yon X and they'd
Speaker 4: send him like a brand new one because you're just
Speaker 4: wearing out the material. And so yeah, every every like
Speaker 4: four months or so, they'd have to send him a
Speaker 4: new eighty X two hundred and seven iron.
Speaker 2: It's like the you know, it reminds me of a
Speaker 2: talking about yon X reminds me of those Cleveland vases
Speaker 2: with the with the club in front of the club
Speaker 2: head in front of the hazzle.
Speaker 4: They actually they weren't on set like that. They actually
Speaker 4: those actually have some offset, but the way they set
Speaker 4: the hozzle up the head the face looked like an
Speaker 4: egg and they did this is I think this was
Speaker 4: when roseny'ol first acquired Cleveland. They put there's a vibration
Speaker 4: of there's like a medallion in the back that was
Speaker 4: supposed to absorb vibration and they had that kind of
Speaker 4: egg shape and the hozzle connected really high on the face.
Speaker 4: They weren't the first company to do that. This Jerry
Speaker 4: Barber who wanted PGA. Jerry Barber had irons.
Speaker 5: That he made back in the day.
Speaker 4: They were called the Golden Touch that were very similar.
Speaker 4: A hozzle on those that was like, dude, it was
Speaker 4: like paper thin, Like it's just like the hozzle on
Speaker 4: those is just like this little it's almost like a
Speaker 4: putterneck that comes up. But those, you know, PAVEN won
Speaker 4: a major with those irons, and they actually the first
Speaker 4: ones were Stinkers, and then they came out with the Plus.
Speaker 4: The Plus model came out after the original vas and
Speaker 4: those are Actually I thought those were pretty decent irons.
Speaker 4: I mean, they were obviously a little unconventional looking, but
Speaker 4: they they performed pretty well. I had a VAS one
Speaker 4: iron when I was in high school. I had that
Speaker 4: in the bag for a while. I think was pretty good.
Speaker 5: What was hideous? Like I heard these.
Speaker 2: Awful what major Winner had one with like the worst equipment.
Speaker 3: One with the worst equipment. Oh man, that.
Speaker 2: Was like a thing in like the seventies and eighties
Speaker 2: was like guys playing awful equipment.
Speaker 5: I love that set.
Speaker 4: I love that the set that Johnny Miller one is
Speaker 4: open with that were I think they were they were
Speaker 4: nine I think they were nine twenty five or nine
Speaker 4: forty five. McGregor's where he had sowed where he had
Speaker 4: like sawed the hozzles off and like bored bored him down,
Speaker 4: and those are what he those are what he played
Speaker 4: for a while. That's like the greatest thing about back
Speaker 4: then because like there weren't like these huge quantum leaps
Speaker 4: in equipment from like the fifties to like the seventies,
Speaker 4: and so guys would play stuff that was twenty years
Speaker 4: old because it worked. I mean, that's like the thing
Speaker 4: back then. It was like guys weren't changing clubs because
Speaker 4: they were tied to some equipment contract and their manufacturer
Speaker 4: wanted to play this because that's what was on the shelves.
Speaker 4: You know, those guys were playing pretty much. I mean
Speaker 4: they were playing pretty much whatever they wanted, whatever worked.
Speaker 4: I mean, sure they had store brands that they sold
Speaker 4: with their name stamped on them, but for most of
Speaker 4: those guys, they bagged with what worked for them. They'd
Speaker 4: go to the factory and you know, they'd get they'd
Speaker 4: get three or four fairway woods. They'd take them out
Speaker 4: and they'd hit them and there'd be one that would
Speaker 4: work better than the rest, and that was the one
Speaker 4: that went in the bag, and they would, you know,
Speaker 4: they would trade the other ones off. They'd find a
Speaker 4: guy that it worked for, and they'd trade it off
Speaker 4: for something else. And so you'd see that really old
Speaker 4: equipment on them. You'd see that old us out on tour,
Speaker 4: you know, you know, even like in the seventies and eighties,
Speaker 4: and like I was saying, Freddy played a M eighty
Speaker 4: five and old McGregor M eighty five for ever until
Speaker 4: the nineties, it was like, you know, it's a forty
Speaker 4: year old driver.
Speaker 3: It was still out in play.
Speaker 2: Hey, what was the thing you remembered the offensive product
Speaker 2: that you.
Speaker 4: Remembered, the those pra those those awful ady x, the
Speaker 4: alien wedge. There's another there's another good there's another good
Speaker 4: product of the nineties was the was the alien ledge,
Speaker 4: And obviously yeah, it was one of the investors was
Speaker 4: a member at my club. So like everybody at the
Speaker 4: club I grew up at had one of those in
Speaker 4: their bag.
Speaker 5: My dad had one.
Speaker 4: It was like the only thing you could get out
Speaker 4: of the sand was his alien wedge.
Speaker 5: You still see him, you still see him in the wild.
Speaker 4: There's someone that has a deep pain when they get
Speaker 4: into bunkers. It's that's still that's like there's that's like
Speaker 4: their security blanket.
Speaker 5: You still see those things once in a while.
Speaker 2: Oh god, you do. I cannying that was a nightmare
Speaker 2: when he saw one of those.
Speaker 5: You're like, oh yeah, that must.
Speaker 4: Have been like the most interesting thing doing that, because
Speaker 4: like you'd see somebody's clubs before you saw them, and
Speaker 4: you're like trying to figure them out because like I'm
Speaker 4: kind of weird, like I'll remember people by their golf
Speaker 4: club sometimes like anything, oh oh yeah, oh yeah, you're
Speaker 4: the dude that's got the nine ninety b's or like
Speaker 4: you know, remember stuff like that. So you're you're meeting
Speaker 4: people and the me like looking into somebody's bag before
Speaker 4: you meet them. As like an insight into who they are.
Speaker 2: It's like, well, it's funny I work bagroom and caddied
Speaker 2: so so many times I'd work the bagroom and then
Speaker 2: I'd like kind of I'd get to pick my loop
Speaker 2: and I pick you know, Joe Member with their guests,
Speaker 2: and I had already seen the bags and had it
Speaker 2: scoped out which bags I was taking. And so many
Speaker 2: times you're misled by the if you judge off the
Speaker 2: clubs and you're like god, dang, Like you know, you're like,
Speaker 2: what am I doing with this guy? He's like a
Speaker 2: tight ass. You know, he's got brand new clubs, he's
Speaker 2: playing blade irons and he can't break ninety? Like what
Speaker 2: am I doing right now? And I started to learn
Speaker 2: that I really liked the guy. You find the bag
Speaker 2: that's super light and the clubs might be a little older,
Speaker 2: they might be a little a little worn, but like
Speaker 2: there's nothing no frills about the bag. That's the guy
Speaker 2: you want. And that's like the sneaky eight that like
Speaker 2: plays five times a year, but it's really way better
Speaker 2: than an eight. Yeah, and it's a cool.
Speaker 3: Dude, di did it amuse you?
Speaker 4: Like when you go play somewhere like National or Short
Speaker 4: Acres or Oakemon or whatever. Does it ever amuse you
Speaker 4: to like walk around and look at the bags that
Speaker 4: are sitting around just to see the golf clubs that
Speaker 4: people are playing.
Speaker 5: Do you ever do that?
Speaker 4: Like it's it's maybe it's like a weird habit of mine,
Speaker 4: but like anytime I'm somewhere like that and I see
Speaker 4: like other people's clubs out like I'm always like drawn
Speaker 4: and interested to see like what they have in their bags,
Speaker 4: and it's it's, it's it's a pretty interesting like what
Speaker 4: you usually.
Speaker 2: See see Like. That's the thing though with me, is
Speaker 2: I don't pay attention to what anybody's playing because I
Speaker 2: don't want to. I don't even think that I have
Speaker 2: I should be playing something else.
Speaker 4: Well it's not to think that you should be playing
Speaker 4: something else, but I mean, I don't know. I guess
Speaker 4: I'm just a little bit wired differently as far as
Speaker 4: but I how I look at equipment and.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm a bum. I don't have anything fancy going
Speaker 2: on with my equipment. You're, yeah, I've got like any
Speaker 2: I got like all old old equipment by today's standards,
Speaker 2: but of my modern account.
Speaker 4: You have so besides, besides the hickory driver, do you
Speaker 4: have any wooden drivers around that have like a steel
Speaker 4: shaft in them?
Speaker 2: You know what I have that I I love is
Speaker 2: I have a PET three would Okay, I love that thing.
Speaker 4: See that's not and that's not even out of place
Speaker 4: with the person and driver in the bag.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But the problem is as far as the.
Speaker 4: Hickory you know, a thirteen degree pet.
Speaker 2: Fifteen, I think, I think, come.
Speaker 4: On, come on, Andy, you hit that further than you
Speaker 4: hit the hickory driver.
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably about the same. It's not it's like a
Speaker 2: ten and they're both equally as hard to hit off
Speaker 2: the ground.
Speaker 4: Those things are so sexy, just like this little tiny
Speaker 4: like just this little pea shooter like I have. I
Speaker 4: have like all kinds of weird bags like I have,
Speaker 4: like I have all kinds of weird like retro bags
Speaker 4: I'll go play with. And I've got like I've got
Speaker 4: like a nineties bag that's got like my old like
Speaker 4: tour spoon and my my Founder's club forwood.
Speaker 5: And you set those.
Speaker 4: Things down and they're just so tiny, but when you
Speaker 4: catch them solid, they hit so hard. It's unbelievable to me,
Speaker 4: how hard You can hit a golf ball with those
Speaker 4: with those things, and they don't really spin because the
Speaker 4: balls spun like hell, so they were you know, those
Speaker 4: things don't really spin.
Speaker 5: You know what.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm eyeing on eBay right now, I've
Speaker 2: been eyeing it for a little while is the is
Speaker 2: getting a bathy back in the bag, getting a brassy
Speaker 2: a baffler like at twelfth afy gotcha, getting all of
Speaker 2: those old cobra baffler's back end.
Speaker 5: One of the laminated one of the laminated wood one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like like a six a six wood or something.
Speaker 4: Orlamar made a bunch of those two. That's another one
Speaker 4: to look for. They made a good Orlamar made some
Speaker 4: good lamin at Fairways. It had a had a kind
Speaker 4: of similar brass plate that wasn't quite as as severe.
Speaker 4: The other one is the have you ever seen the
Speaker 4: gain tvfore Uh huh. There's a company called that. I
Speaker 4: don't even know if stan Thompson's still around, but they
Speaker 4: had a company called stan Thompson.
Speaker 5: Not to the Canadian, not.
Speaker 4: The Canadian architect, but they have like this really like
Speaker 4: really severe soul plate where it's like almost like a rudder.
Speaker 5: It's like a.
Speaker 4: It's like a it's like a it's like a hard
Speaker 4: v at the soul and that thing can get You
Speaker 4: can get that thing out of like just about any
Speaker 4: just gunchy lie.
Speaker 5: My mom had one, and my mom was.
Speaker 4: Like a magician with it, like you can get it
Speaker 4: out of just about any lie. That would be something
Speaker 4: I'd look at too.
Speaker 5: You're looking for something higher lost than of course the guinty. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I don't know if they guinty.
Speaker 4: I think you're like twenty, like twenty degrees or so,
Speaker 4: so it's basically like a.
Speaker 2: Five would Let me tell you, the market for the
Speaker 2: bafflers on E base pretty good. I'm looking at one
Speaker 2: that's like sixteen bucks.
Speaker 3: That's pretty good.
Speaker 2: Yeah right.
Speaker 5: You should just man, you should have some fun with it.
Speaker 4: Put together like like just put together like a weird
Speaker 4: like nineties small head bag and enjoy that, like in
Speaker 4: addition to the hickory, because I think just playing with
Speaker 4: all kinds of stuff is just entertaining. It's just you know,
Speaker 4: especially if you're pretty good.
Speaker 5: You are a good player. Like if you're a pretty
Speaker 5: good player, I.
Speaker 4: Mean you don't I don't know, you hit those things solid.
Speaker 4: There's not this fast disparagement other than you know, you
Speaker 4: lose a little bit of carry with something would but
Speaker 4: it's just fun playing with that with old wood old
Speaker 4: small woodheads are are fun to play with small metal woodheads,
Speaker 4: I should say.
Speaker 2: I think it really seem way better with modern equipment too.
Speaker 4: I would not you know, I would not disagree the
Speaker 4: rounds that I would play or I would bust out
Speaker 4: like a you know that when I had that like
Speaker 4: five year spell or so, when I was playing with
Speaker 4: pursum in the rounds that I would occasionally play with
Speaker 4: something relatively modern. I'd use like a three hundred and
Speaker 4: three fifty cc driver and I could hit those pretty well.
Speaker 4: But it's just to me, it's just like it just
Speaker 4: it's such a different focus when you're playing with that equipment.
Speaker 4: It's like you're not trying to like kill it, You're
Speaker 4: trying to hit it solid.
Speaker 5: Like have you ever seen those videos of like someone
Speaker 5: did this posted this thing a while ago that was hilarious.
Speaker 5: It was like it was like down.
Speaker 4: The line at like a tour event in the nineties
Speaker 4: and you're watching all these tempos and it was just
Speaker 4: like so different from watching Guys on the Range today
Speaker 4: because these guys are playing blades. They're playing they're playing
Speaker 4: small headed drivers, and they're not worried about swinging at
Speaker 4: one hundred and thirty miles an hour. They're worried about
Speaker 4: connecting with it and hitting everything pure. And it just
Speaker 4: it changes your focus playing with that stuff. When I
Speaker 4: was talking about the guy when I first got in
Speaker 4: the golf business, when I'm talking to Leith, I used
Speaker 4: to go play a lot of golf with him and
Speaker 4: I work.
Speaker 5: With him, and he was a good stick.
Speaker 4: He would he played for Stanford. He was you know,
Speaker 4: he was in his sixties at the time, and he
Speaker 4: still had he still had some game. And he put
Speaker 4: this set of blades together. They were set at J
Speaker 4: thirty threes and they had some steel fibers I think
Speaker 4: they were eighty gram or ninety five gram steel fibers.
Speaker 5: In them, and he just striped him.
Speaker 4: He hit them so much better than any cavity back
Speaker 4: said he had and he just couldn't figure out why.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, man like, think about it. When you're
Speaker 4: swinging those things like you don't have any other options.
Speaker 4: It's almost like fear factor. You've got to hit this
Speaker 4: thing solid or it's not gonna you're not going to
Speaker 4: get very much out of it, And for whatever reason,
Speaker 4: it just rained him in and he played. He played
Speaker 4: great golf with those.
Speaker 5: Off and on for a while.
Speaker 4: But to me, like, man, there's nothing feels better than
Speaker 4: just hitting you know, hitting that stuff pure because the weight,
Speaker 4: it's just so concentrated, and it's just just a different
Speaker 4: feedback than what you get with a modern technology filmed
Speaker 4: golf club.
Speaker 3: It's just so different.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's. Uh, you know, just make golf heart again.
Speaker 2: Make it unfair.
Speaker 5: Like I'm saying to make it unfair, I'm saying.
Speaker 4: I'm just saying I appreciate it differently, I think. But
Speaker 4: that's I think. Yeah, that's I mean, don't I mean,
Speaker 4: I'm not saying make it unfair. I'm saying, appreciate it differently.
Speaker 4: There's there's there's so many different ways to appreciate it,
Speaker 4: and that's just you know, one of them.
Speaker 5: I Mean.
Speaker 4: The other thing I think I've talked about before is like,
Speaker 4: the thing that's really interesting with the National custom work
Speaker 4: stuff is like almost half the projects I end up
Speaker 4: working on with clients or partial sets, there are guys
Speaker 4: that are trying to build like a four or five
Speaker 4: six club set that they can go out and you know,
Speaker 4: throw in a Sunday bag and go talking with I
Speaker 4: Just the way people enjoy golf is changing, and there's
Speaker 4: still a lot of different ways to do it. You
Speaker 4: can do it by playing different courses, like you know,
Speaker 4: like Sweetens, you can go play the Cradle, you can
Speaker 4: you know, there's all kinds of neat different things like that,
Speaker 4: or you can play with different equipment.
Speaker 5: I mean, whatever you want.
Speaker 4: To do, man, That's why I told him the way
Speaker 4: you want to enjoy it. Enjoy golf the way you
Speaker 4: want to enjoy it, and you know, don't be ashamed
Speaker 4: of it.
Speaker 5: Just embrace it. Enjoy it the way you enjoy it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he is this buddy of mind. And he said
Speaker 2: he couldn't the course he played didn't test him enough
Speaker 2: because it was too short and wide open. And I'm like,
Speaker 2: don't just play with a five.
Speaker 3: I you ask him what he shot.
Speaker 2: He's really he's a really good player. He shoots in
Speaker 2: the sixties.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but what I mean, that's like I mean, but it's.
Speaker 2: True because you just bash driver and then wedge it on.
Speaker 2: So I told him, like, hey, like, if you want
Speaker 2: to get better play with just a five iron none less,
Speaker 2: and then you actually have to hit mid irons in
Speaker 2: the greens. You know, like that's going to make you better.
Speaker 2: But hey, let's let's wrap this up. You know the
Speaker 2: last overrated under underrated the fair police.
Speaker 4: I mean, golf is not by design to be fair,
Speaker 4: so Glen. It's like life, man, it's like playing life. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, i'd say there's I don't think
Speaker 4: there's quote unquote fair.
Speaker 5: Does not exist. It's that's that's golf.
Speaker 4: So I guess I would say what that would be
Speaker 4: what they're they're overrated, They're way overrated.
Speaker 2: That that's a good answer. All right, Patrick, thanks for
Speaker 2: coming on, Thanks for all the time.
Speaker 5: My pleasure man, anytime.
Speaker 4: Let's uh, let's get together soon. We should uh give
Speaker 4: me a shout one of these days. Offline, let's let's
Speaker 4: talk about a couple of things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, I'll uh, people can find your stuff
Speaker 2: on Instagram at National Custom Works. Then you've got your Faral,
Speaker 2: your Feral.
Speaker 5: Game fer Company, and then and then yeah that's at
Speaker 5: BB and f CO.
Speaker 4: And then there's a National Custom Works Fine furniture department
Speaker 4: that's at the NCW. Find Furniture on Instagram, and then
Speaker 4: I think I'm on Twitter, National custom Works and BB
Speaker 4: and f R on Twitter. I was one of the
Speaker 4: guys I did. I did Twitter for Swedens for a while.
Speaker 4: I did the Instagram up until about October. Me and
Speaker 4: Rod did the Instagram until about October. And the Nash
Speaker 4: is out there now has been doing it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, so all.
Speaker 5: Right, I talked too much. I apologize.
Speaker 2: It's okay. This is a this is a two parter,
Speaker 2: so we're we're yeah, well, we'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2: You've been listening to the Fried Egg podcast. We do
Speaker 2: the digging for you.