WEBVTT - Bengals Booth Podcast: Room Where It Happens 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:06.400 Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading 0:00:06.440 --> 0:00:10.399 the Bengals boot Podcast. The I want to be in 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:13.440 the room where it happens, the room where it happens, 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:17.479 The room where it happens. Addition, as we take you 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:21.480 inside the Bengals war room during the NFL Draft with 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:24.600 Greg Seaman, who is a Bengal scout for more than 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:28.160 a decade. He shares some great stories about Cincinnati selecting 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:32.200 Andrew Whitworth and Giovanni Bernard and also discusses why things 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:35.800 didn't work out in twenty fifteen when the team's first 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:39.480 two picks were Cedric Obwihi and Jake Fisher. Then I'll 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.559 be joined by Tony Pauline, the senior draft analyst for 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:45.920 Pro Football Network dot Com, who makes the case for 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:50.280 why the Bengals should not draft Iowa center Tyler Linderbaum 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:54.160 in round one. The Bengals Booth Podcast is presented by 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:58.400 Ultimate Bengals. Download Ultimate Bengals ahead of the twenty twenty 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:02.279 two season. It's free to play next level fantasy football 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:06.680 with fantastic Bengals prizes. Get it now on the App 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:10.240 Store and Google Play. And here's a quick reminder that 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:13.120 you can have the latest edition of this podcast delivered 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:16.880 right to your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing wherever 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:21.399 you get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing since Wettle. 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:25.319 I'm guessing that many of you are playing the game Wardle, 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:27.679 where you have to figure out a five letter word 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:31.120 in six tries at the risk of bragging. As of 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:35.440 this morning, I'm sixty one for sixty one. Because of 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.399 the popularity of Wardle, a bunch of similar games have 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:42.640 popped up, including an NFL version called Wettle, named for 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:46.600 former Pro Bowl safety Eric Weddle. In Wettle, you have 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:50.040 eight tries to figure out the identity of an NFL player, 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:55.640 with clues involving their team, division, position, height, age, and 0:01:55.840 --> 0:02:00.600 jersey number. If you're interested, just search for Wettle and 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:03.920 it'll pop right up. I'm three for three so far. 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:09.240 Now time to take you inside the Bengals draft room 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:12.480 with former scout Greg Seaman, who was in the room 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:16.040 where it happens for thirteen drafts from two thousand and 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:20.359 three to twenty fifteen. Right, we got to know each other. 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:23.519 When you're the offensive coordinator and you see under Rick Mentor, 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:26.440 I've never asked you this question, how did you wind 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:30.000 up in the Bengals personnel department after? You see, I 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:33.320 was the offensive coordinator at Miamis, Ohio. But in that 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:37.400 six year period there, I spent a lot of time 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:41.320 with the Bengals with Bruce Consult and Ken Anderson, who 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:44.800 were coaching. Was coaching the quarterbacks, and I wanted to 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:49.680 learn in detail the West Coast system that Sam why 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:52.600 should implement it? And we were using some of that 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:55.840 the last couple of years I was at UC and 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:58.840 then we used it almost exclusively when I went to Miami, 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:03.399 so I developed a relationship with those folks. In two 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:08.239 thousand and two, Bruce Coslo became the offensive coordinator of 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:12.440 the Dallas Cowboys and offered me a job there, coaching 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:15.600 the tight ends, and I went down there not knowing 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:17.360 that it was the last year of the head coach's 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:19.800 contract and they were about to hire Bill Parcel. So 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:24.480 it was a short tenure in Dallas. But when that 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.240 was over, I really wanted to be back in the 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:31.240 Cincinnati area. I hadn't it's home for me, Southeast Indiana, 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:34.399 and I had there were no It was a tough 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:36.960 year looking for a coaching job, and Bruce did me 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:40.240 a real favor. He called Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis, 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:45.640 who had just been hired, and gave me a good recommendation. 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:48.600 I had a year left on a Dallas contract, so 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:53.360 I interviewed. Mike called me actually and invited me to 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:55.640 come to Paul Brown Stadium. I interviewed with him and 0:03:55.720 --> 0:04:00.640 with Marvin, and at that point the Bes had never 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:05.160 had an advanced scout, someone that would study thoroughly an 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:09.560 upcoming opponent and then on Mondays sit down with the 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:12.240 offensive staff, the defensive staff, and then with Darren Simmons, 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:15.440 a special teams coordinator, and go over what you knew 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:17.920 about them, what you had learned for the previous week. 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:20.600 So I did that in two thousand and three and 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.280 really enjoyed it. It kept me connected with coaches and 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:27.760 it was just it was a fun job. And after 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:35.200 that they decided to expand the player personnel department by 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:39.240 thirty three percent. Because there was Lippy Jill Lippincott, and 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:43.040 there was Duke, and then there was myself, and then 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:46.960 we added another young guy a year or so later, 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:50.640 so it really kind of rounded things out for me 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:53.600 because I still did a lot of the advanced scouting 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:57.520 I was doing college scouting and we were doing pro scouting, 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:02.080 and you were intimately involved in what was going on 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.000 with the team and then also of course with the draft, 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:09.400 and that just kind of blossomed. It became something I 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:14.080 really enjoyed. And I have three amazing daughters, and they 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:17.000 were all in school, great elementary school, going into junior high. 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:20.039 They had after school activities, and it afforded me the 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.000 opportunity to be involved with a lot of the things 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:25.760 that I probably wouldn't have had the opportunity to do 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:32.160 were I just coaching. So it was a winding road, 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:35.240 but it started with a relationship with Kim and with Bruce. 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:38.720 So were you in the draft room in two thousand 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:42.039 and three Marvin's first draft when they selected Carson Palmer 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:46.400 number one overall. I was, and I wasn't a part 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:51.240 of the all the work that had been done, but 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:56.680 that decision was an easy one and I and a 0:05:56.720 --> 0:06:02.280 wonderful approach. I thought by Marvin um In that this 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.520 guy is going to be a great quarterback. And we are. 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:09.960 We are a team in transition. You know, we're not 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:12.960 as good as we'd like to be. Yet we're not 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.880 going to subject this guy to going out and getting 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:19.200 sacked fifty or sixty times in the year we had 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:23.039 John Kittman, who was a good quarterback and a really 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:27.159 good professional. And I think to this day if people 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:32.320 ask Carson, he has always said that worked out really 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:35.479 well for him. He'd learned so much that year and 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:39.320 just watching John's approach and how John handled situations during 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:42.960 the ballgame, communication with the coaches. So yeah, that was 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:46.640 that was a no doubter and ended up being a 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:50.000 very good pick. So the following year two thousand and four, 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:53.240 was that the first time that you were really involved 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:56.719 with the draft process? Yes, sir, what do you remember 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:58.919 about that first draft where you're in the room and 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:02.600 you're you're voicing your opinion and you know, really invested 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:07.120 in every selection. You are as a guy early and 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:09.880 you're that part of your career, you're reluctant to say 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:16.200 much of anything. There's a there's a certain paranoia, a 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:19.480 healthy one when it comes to the draft room on 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:22.600 draft day. You don't want to screw anything up and 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.640 you don't want to throw out the window all the 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:31.120 preparation that has been done prior to that. So early 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:35.040 in your career you are to speak when called upon 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:40.760 and otherwise, what's the old Mark Twain saying it's better 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:42.640 to be silent and thought a fool than to open 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:47.280 your mouth and confirm it. So I was very happy 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:50.560 to sit there and snack and what's the goings on 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:54.240 and try to learn how this all works. Our guest 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:56.480 is Greg Seeman, a former Bengal scout who is in 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.880 the Bengals draft room for thirteen years. What's Mike Brown 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:08.320 like during the draft? Mike is calm, thoughtful, he is 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:17.320 He's really good at asking questions, posing the Okay, if 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:20.080 it comes to this, do you want player A or 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:26.040 player B with this pick? And why he is steady? 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:30.480 I think Mike he grew up with the old Cleveland 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:32.520 Browns as a kid. I mean he hung out with 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:36.720 Dante Loobelly and the guys on the team, and so 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:40.560 he's been around it literally his entire life, and so 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:44.360 there's not a lot that would surprise him. And when 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:48.320 his father was the head coach of the of the 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:51.959 Bengals and the general manager, Mike and his brother Pete 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:57.079 did all of the scouting. The coaches were involved after 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.599 the season, but the preparation leading up to that was 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:04.160 Mike and Pete. So there's not a in that particular 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:07.840 room amongst the personnel guys, there's not a job that 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:11.800 he hadn't already done, and so there's a wealth of 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:15.120 experience and knowledge there. I didn't get to know his 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:17.840 brother Pete very well, but he was known for his 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:21.000 draft acumen. How big was his role during those years. 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:25.520 I think that his voice was the number one voice 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:30.800 that Mike would listen to if there was uncertainty. I 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:35.080 think in those years it would have been Marvin and 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:39.760 Pete and then Duke who would have had the most 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:43.280 effect on what we were about to do. YEA, Pete 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:47.680 lived it. He was just remarkable the amount of time 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:50.120 that he spent on the guys. And we had our 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:53.800 draft board, you know, set up by rounds, But in 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:56.839 this little anti room back behind the draft board and 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:01.079 this little hallway, Pete had a small board set up 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:05.640 and he would list in order as he saw them, 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:08.880 every draft eligible player in the country. He would have 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:11.440 watched all of them, so he had them labeled one 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:15.360 through four hundred or whatever there was as his own 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.559 kind of guide. If we were talking about someone around 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:22.600 and he was uncertain, he would walk around and look 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:26.160 at his boards, see said, guys, I have him much lower. 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:29.240 We need to investigate those and talk more about why 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:32.440 we see this player in this inflated position in the board. 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:37.440 Do they religiously stick to the board. I mean, you've 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:39.920 obviously put a ton of work into it leading up 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:42.120 to the draft. When you get to those three days, 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:44.720 do you say, all right, we have to trust the 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:48.800 work we put in and stick to that order for 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:53.160 the most part, yes, you do. Let's say that you 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:59.560 are picking sixteenth, middle of them, and it's the first round. 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:07.120 You establish through your meetings sixteen players that you are 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:11.200 happy to take. Within those sixteen players, and a lot 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:15.559 of it we're talking first round. People may not realize 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:18.040 that there has never been a draft where there were 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:23.160 thirty two first round pick guys, guys that were worthy 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:25.960 of you. If you say, you know, you have to 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:28.760 define it. So in our definition, if you're taking a 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.360 guy in the first round, you're saying that he is 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:35.760 quite possibly an immediate starter and that you expect him 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:39.760 to be an impactful player. So a skilled position, someone 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:43.240 that's going to produce touchdowns or interceptions, or run for 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:45.480 a lot of yards, or alignment that's going to get 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:47.440 a defensive alignment that's going to produce sax or an 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:49.520 offensive linement who's going to play for a long time 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.720 at a high level. So to set the board, you 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:56.720 have to define what each round is and then say, okay, 0:11:56.760 --> 0:12:01.120 does this player fit the description we're giving it. So 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:04.120 there's no draft where there are thirty two guys that 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:07.800 bit them. So some drafts go twenty deep or eighteen deep. 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:10.080 So if you're sitting there in the middle of the 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:13.800 first round and you've got sixteen guys and maybe there 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:19.520 are twelve of them, who are these guys are really good? 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:24.000 And these next four, yeah they're first round guys, but 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.160 they're not quite the same first round guy as these 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:31.120 other twelve. So at that point, then if one of 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:36.000 those twelve seems to be going to be available a 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:38.760 spot or two ahead of where you're going to go, 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:42.480 then that's when you might talk about moving up a 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:46.680 cup of spots, not in violation of your board, but 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:51.280 maybe better use of the board. You have to have 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:56.440 a guy, and you have to believe that the work 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:59.280 and all the discussions you've done with coaches and the 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:03.000 personnel and the arguments and where you ended up is 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:07.920 a good plan and yes, for the most part, you 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.400 need to stay true to your board. Now, I imagine 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.160 people listening to this heard you say that in no 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:16.559 draft are there thirty two guys worthy of a first 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:18.880 round grade, and they're thinking, well, the Bengals take thirty 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:20.920 are going thirty first this year, does that mean they're 0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:23.320 not going to get a first round guy. I think 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.160 what a lot of people don't recognize is that the 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:28.559 Bengals are probably going to get a guy at number 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.959 thirty one that's about fourteenth on their board, or that 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:34.679 that's just kind of a random number, but somebody that 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:39.840 is very much higher than the thirty first best player 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:45.319 right in their mind. Well, that's right, and you when 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:50.160 you're picking thirty first, it means that you have an 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:56.000 awfully good football team, and so a player, a specific 0:13:56.080 --> 0:14:00.920 player who would fit a spot on your team, that 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.679 he may be more valuable to you than he is 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:09.560 to some other players, because it's a very specific skill 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:14.319 set that you're looking for. But you'll also see oftentimes, 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:18.719 you know the Patriots for years, we're picking down near 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.960 the bottom, and what they realized early on was that 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:26.560 the second round starts around pick twenty twenty five somewhere 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:30.760 in there. And so if someone below you has eyes 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:35.040 for this person in the first round at thirty one, 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:36.960 well let's trade down and get a couple more picks. 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:40.320 We'll take an extra second rounder because we think that 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:43.440 that's one more guy in this category of players that 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:45.680 are kind of the same guys. They're good players, they're 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:47.880 going to play a lot in the NFL. But if 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:50.640 you have defined the first round as this guy, we 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.160 want people that are going to be Pro bowlers. That 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:56.200 doesn't mean they're bad players. Aren't that many Pro bowlers around, 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:01.120 So that's an area where you we'll see teams trade 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:04.760 down a little bit and teams that are a little 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:09.080 needy jumping up to take someone at thirty one. And 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:14.440 now you also have to weigh in the fact that 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.480 that thirty first and thirty second pick have five year contract, 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:21.520 and that can be really meaningful as you look forward 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:26.080 at your cap numbers. Maybe it's an offensive lineman or 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:28.280 a defensive lineman who you want to have for a 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:30.520 long time. It's really nice to have that fifth year 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:33.760 build into that first year that first round contract. So 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:37.760 that's another element into the decisions there. We're getting a 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:40.840 peek into the war room from former Bengal Scott Greg Seeman. 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:45.920 How big of a concern is leaking information in this process? 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:50.680 I think it's a pretty big concern in some places. 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:53.120 You know, there are only three people that have access 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:55.360 to the draft board, and the room is double locked, 0:15:55.360 --> 0:16:02.200 and there are cameras and laser sensors informations. As Pete 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:05.680 Brown used to say, once information is out, it's out 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:11.560 at all levels. Now there are some that like to 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:14.920 play the information game and they will leak to a 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.760 writer or an agent that you know, we're really leaning 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:20.800 this way, or we think this guy's great, and they 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:25.000 want that information out there. But certainly you don't want 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:30.480 to broadcast what your intentions are. It changes the value 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:33.240 of picks. It changes the values placed on certain players 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:37.760 in what teams are willing to if they want to 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:41.560 jump ahead of you, or if you're trying to if 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:43.360 they know you want a certain guy and you call 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.280 them on draft day about moving up, the price for 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:48.840 that spot may have gone up if they believe that 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:51.720 you are desperate to go get that player. So yes, 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.800 that information needs to stay in the house. How much 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:58.200 did things change as Duke Tobin took on a more 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:02.400 prominent role in running the draft. I think that we 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:08.399 streamlined our work everybody. The traditional approach to it is 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:14.080 that in the spring after the draft, scouts go out 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:17.600 to all the colleges in their region, their area and 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:23.119 get a first thought on next year's draft eligible players 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.240 at those universities, and you're building networks, talking to coaches, 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:28.920 that kind of thing. And then in the fall you're 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:31.800 with your team for a little while in training camp, 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:34.720 and then as the colleges start to practice and play, 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:40.080 you're just gone. From maybe the third week of August 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.240 until the end of the college season, you're on those 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:47.399 campuses and doing all of that. We did have a 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:55.080 smaller number of scouts, but as as as Duke pointed out, 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:58.080 let's go and look at the guys that are going 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:00.639 to play in the NFL, there's a there's some busy 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:02.600 work that goes on with some of the teams that 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:06.679 have really big scouting stamps. They'll they'll go into a 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:11.240 college and grade every senior, for example, in the program. 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:13.919 So maybe there are eighteen seniors, Well, the place may 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.840 have three prospects, and our approach was going in and 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:20.040 find out who are the prospects, and let's pay attention 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:22.000 to those guys and let's get on to the next place. 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:27.760 So gosh, probably seven or eight years ago, Duke came 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:31.800 up with the idea that the way that the film 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:36.480 is distributed now we have all the video immediately from 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:40.600 the colleges, and it can be really inefficient if you're 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:42.800 at a If you're at a big school as a 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:47.200 scout and you go there on a Wednesday to watch 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:49.960 practice and watch tape, there may be a dozen other 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:54.399 scouts there and sitting in a darkened room for the 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:57.119 big part of the day, Trying to watch the video 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:00.160 tape with eleven other people is a lot like having 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:03.600 twelve people fighting over the remote to watch television. You 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:06.600 can't you wait, run that back and then one guy's 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:09.600 going slowly and run that back running and ten other 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.640 guys we've already seen this. Can we go into something else? 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:16.800 So Duke came to me with the idea and I 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:19.960 agreed with it wholeheartedly. He said, let's do this. Let's 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:22.919 go out in the fall for a couple months, and 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:25.480 let's not worry about looking at the video tape. You 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:27.439 might hit two schools in a day. You know, if 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:30.680 I had the Atlantic States, for example, so I could 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:34.200 hit Duke, North Carolina and North Canina State in two days, 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:36.639 and instead of sitting in that room with all the 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:39.480 other scouts, go around and talk to people. So I 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:41.520 would spend time in the training room. I'd go see 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:44.720 the academic counselor you know, any coaches you could grab, 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:48.840 and let's let's build that kind of information in person, 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:53.120 and then let's come back home and we can sit. 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:55.040 I can sit for a day in my office and 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:59.000 watch all the North Carolina film I want to watch uninterrupted. 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:02.119 And I thought that was a brilliant idea. It really 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:08.080 streamlined our time and it made I got to see 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:09.520 a lot more video, I got to spend a lot 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:11.240 more time on it, and I got to talk to 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:14.280 more people on campus. So I don't know that many 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:18.200 teams do it that way even yet, but I thought that, 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:20.520 you know, we had to run of some really good 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:23.879 drafts when we were in the kind of the glory 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:28.760 years of Marvin's tenure there, and I thought that that 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:31.800 approach was a big part of that. I thought we 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:34.280 were more well informed, maybe than some of the other teams. 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:38.919 When you're on the road talking to trainers, academic advisors, 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:44.639 assistant coaches, etc. How long I started. They not very 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:49.439 you and you know that going in part of the 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:51.800 you know, for the thirteen years that I was there, 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:53.760 I had the same area, so I was on the 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:59.119 East coast, and so a part of that is developing relationships. 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:01.960 You don't really get to talk to coaches a lot 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:06.239 during their season when you're on the campus. They'll have 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:10.080 someone assigned. When the scouts are there, we're usually sitting 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:11.919 in their team room and somebody will come in and 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:14.879 tell you about all the guys and they're gonna lie 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:18.159 up and down the board to defend the players that 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:25.760 they have strength. Coaches by their nature are pretty dog 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:28.760 gone honest. You know, if you ask the right they'll 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:32.359 they'll give you the speel. Here are the numbers. This 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:34.320 guy benches this, this guy runs out and all that. 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:37.360 But if you can get them alone and you say 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:41.480 to them, for example, when you have partner workouts, do 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:46.200 you put young guys with him? And he says no, never, never, 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:49.760 and it's because he's not a hard worker. Or you 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:51.840 may ask, have you ever thrown this guy out of 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:54.760 the weight room? Yeah, two or three times, because you 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:59.200 know the guy just won't work. So you occasionally find 0:21:59.280 --> 0:22:04.400 that Now you also find out that once the college 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:08.280 season is over and the draft eligible players aren't going 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:10.960 to be playing for them anymore. So they we're talking 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:14.240 now and after the combine, there's a period of time 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:15.960 a month or so where you can go back out 0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:18.160 and they're having pro days and that kind of thing. 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:21.879 They're much more honest. The guy doesn't play there anymore, 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:25.840 you know, but we couldn't wait to get him out 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:31.520 of here. Or occasionally you'll know, you'll get they'll they'll 0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:33.280 tell you things. You know what, when I talk to 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:35.920 you in September, I didn't say much about this guy. 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:37.720 I want to tell you something. By the end of 0:22:37.720 --> 0:22:40.160 the year, he was a real leader for us. I mean, 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:43.520 this kid just grew as a person and I would 0:22:43.560 --> 0:22:47.800 change my recommendation to the positive now. And I want 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:49.399 to make sure you hear that because I know I 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:51.399 didn't leave a very good impression of him early on. 0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:54.320 So it works both ways. But they are more forthcoming 0:22:54.800 --> 0:23:01.320 once the once they don't have to have the kid 0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:03.760 in the program, and maybe that leaks. There was one 0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:06.080 strength coach at a university I will not mention that 0:23:06.119 --> 0:23:08.520 I thought was just over the top, and what he 0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:13.960 did on every kid's locker, he had a belcro strip 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:16.359 next to their nameplate at the top of their locker, 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:19.520 and he had these little message boards made up and 0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:26.000 it said things like hard worker, leader, non compliant, lazy, 0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:30.400 you know, inconsistent, And on a weekly basis, he would 0:23:30.440 --> 0:23:32.600 go in and just change those and so you could 0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:35.800 walk through the locker room you see this kid's locker 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:40.440 and it says lazy. Okay, that's pretty direct. I think 0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:43.320 the head coach after a year made him stop doing 0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:45.520 that because he saw all the scouts walking down the 0:23:45.560 --> 0:23:47.720 hall of the aisle of the locker making notes on 0:23:47.880 --> 0:23:52.119 every player. But he felt that that was motivation, and 0:23:52.240 --> 0:23:56.120 I think that while it was well intentioned, his approach 0:23:56.200 --> 0:24:00.840 was probably less than desirable. Was there a point where 0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:06.560 the Bengals decided to prioritize character concerns more. I think 0:24:06.640 --> 0:24:10.520 that you know, if you if you if you have 0:24:10.600 --> 0:24:17.040 a restaurant, for example, people that have a complaint are 0:24:17.119 --> 0:24:21.080 much more likely to write something on the Internet about that. 0:24:21.640 --> 0:24:24.560 And if a player has an issue and it's a 0:24:24.560 --> 0:24:28.640 public issue, it gets a great deal of attention, and 0:24:28.880 --> 0:24:32.240 not that it shouldn't, but it overshadows a whole bunch 0:24:32.280 --> 0:24:36.440 of other guys on the football team. So uh, yes, 0:24:36.600 --> 0:24:40.679 we had a run where we had a handful of 0:24:40.680 --> 0:24:45.960