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Speaker 1: Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading

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Speaker 1: the Bengals boot Podcast. The I want to be in

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Speaker 1: the room where it happens, the room where it happens,

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Speaker 1: The room where it happens. Addition, as we take you

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Speaker 1: inside the Bengals war room during the NFL Draft with

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Speaker 1: Greg Seaman, who is a Bengal scout for more than

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Speaker 1: a decade. He shares some great stories about Cincinnati selecting

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Speaker 1: Andrew Whitworth and Giovanni Bernard and also discusses why things

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Speaker 1: didn't work out in twenty fifteen when the team's first

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Speaker 1: two picks were Cedric Obwihi and Jake Fisher. Then I'll

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Speaker 1: be joined by Tony Pauline, the senior draft analyst for

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Speaker 1: Pro Football Network dot Com, who makes the case for

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Speaker 1: why the Bengals should not draft Iowa center Tyler Linderbaum

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Speaker 1: in round one. The Bengals Booth Podcast is presented by

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Speaker 1: Ultimate Bengals. Download Ultimate Bengals ahead of the twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: two season. It's free to play next level fantasy football

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Speaker 1: with fantastic Bengals prizes. Get it now on the App

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Speaker 1: Store and Google Play. And here's a quick reminder that

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Speaker 1: you can have the latest edition of this podcast delivered

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Speaker 1: right to your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. It's the greatest thing since Wettle.

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Speaker 1: I'm guessing that many of you are playing the game Wardle,

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Speaker 1: where you have to figure out a five letter word

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Speaker 1: in six tries at the risk of bragging. As of

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Speaker 1: this morning, I'm sixty one for sixty one. Because of

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Speaker 1: the popularity of Wardle, a bunch of similar games have

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Speaker 1: popped up, including an NFL version called Wettle, named for

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Speaker 1: former Pro Bowl safety Eric Weddle. In Wettle, you have

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Speaker 1: eight tries to figure out the identity of an NFL player,

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Speaker 1: with clues involving their team, division, position, height, age, and

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Speaker 1: jersey number. If you're interested, just search for Wettle and

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Speaker 1: it'll pop right up. I'm three for three so far.

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Speaker 1: Now time to take you inside the Bengals draft room

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Speaker 1: with former scout Greg Seaman, who was in the room

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Speaker 1: where it happens for thirteen drafts from two thousand and

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Speaker 1: three to twenty fifteen. Right, we got to know each other.

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Speaker 1: When you're the offensive coordinator and you see under Rick Mentor,

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Speaker 1: I've never asked you this question, how did you wind

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Speaker 1: up in the Bengals personnel department after? You see, I

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Speaker 1: was the offensive coordinator at Miamis, Ohio. But in that

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Speaker 1: six year period there, I spent a lot of time

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Speaker 1: with the Bengals with Bruce Consult and Ken Anderson, who

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Speaker 1: were coaching. Was coaching the quarterbacks, and I wanted to

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Speaker 1: learn in detail the West Coast system that Sam why

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Speaker 1: should implement it? And we were using some of that

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Speaker 1: the last couple of years I was at UC and

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Speaker 1: then we used it almost exclusively when I went to Miami,

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Speaker 1: so I developed a relationship with those folks. In two

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Speaker 1: thousand and two, Bruce Coslo became the offensive coordinator of

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Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys and offered me a job there, coaching

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Speaker 1: the tight ends, and I went down there not knowing

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Speaker 1: that it was the last year of the head coach's

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Speaker 1: contract and they were about to hire Bill Parcel. So

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Speaker 1: it was a short tenure in Dallas. But when that

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Speaker 1: was over, I really wanted to be back in the

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Speaker 1: Cincinnati area. I hadn't it's home for me, Southeast Indiana,

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Speaker 1: and I had there were no It was a tough

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Speaker 1: year looking for a coaching job, and Bruce did me

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Speaker 1: a real favor. He called Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis,

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Speaker 1: who had just been hired, and gave me a good recommendation.

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Speaker 1: I had a year left on a Dallas contract, so

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Speaker 1: I interviewed. Mike called me actually and invited me to

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Speaker 1: come to Paul Brown Stadium. I interviewed with him and

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Speaker 1: with Marvin, and at that point the Bes had never

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Speaker 1: had an advanced scout, someone that would study thoroughly an

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Speaker 1: upcoming opponent and then on Mondays sit down with the

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Speaker 1: offensive staff, the defensive staff, and then with Darren Simmons,

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Speaker 1: a special teams coordinator, and go over what you knew

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Speaker 1: about them, what you had learned for the previous week.

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Speaker 1: So I did that in two thousand and three and

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Speaker 1: really enjoyed it. It kept me connected with coaches and

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Speaker 1: it was just it was a fun job. And after

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Speaker 1: that they decided to expand the player personnel department by

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Speaker 1: thirty three percent. Because there was Lippy Jill Lippincott, and

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Speaker 1: there was Duke, and then there was myself, and then

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Speaker 1: we added another young guy a year or so later,

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Speaker 1: so it really kind of rounded things out for me

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Speaker 1: because I still did a lot of the advanced scouting

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Speaker 1: I was doing college scouting and we were doing pro scouting,

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Speaker 1: and you were intimately involved in what was going on

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Speaker 1: with the team and then also of course with the draft,

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Speaker 1: and that just kind of blossomed. It became something I

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Speaker 1: really enjoyed. And I have three amazing daughters, and they

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Speaker 1: were all in school, great elementary school, going into junior high.

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Speaker 1: They had after school activities, and it afforded me the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to be involved with a lot of the things

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Speaker 1: that I probably wouldn't have had the opportunity to do

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Speaker 1: were I just coaching. So it was a winding road,

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Speaker 1: but it started with a relationship with Kim and with Bruce.

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Speaker 1: So were you in the draft room in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and three Marvin's first draft when they selected Carson Palmer

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Speaker 1: number one overall. I was, and I wasn't a part

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Speaker 1: of the all the work that had been done, but

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Speaker 1: that decision was an easy one and I and a

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Speaker 1: wonderful approach. I thought by Marvin um In that this

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Speaker 1: guy is going to be a great quarterback. And we are.

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Speaker 1: We are a team in transition. You know, we're not

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Speaker 1: as good as we'd like to be. Yet we're not

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Speaker 1: going to subject this guy to going out and getting

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Speaker 1: sacked fifty or sixty times in the year we had

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Speaker 1: John Kittman, who was a good quarterback and a really

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Speaker 1: good professional. And I think to this day if people

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Speaker 1: ask Carson, he has always said that worked out really

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Speaker 1: well for him. He'd learned so much that year and

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Speaker 1: just watching John's approach and how John handled situations during

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Speaker 1: the ballgame, communication with the coaches. So yeah, that was

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Speaker 1: that was a no doubter and ended up being a

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Speaker 1: very good pick. So the following year two thousand and four,

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Speaker 1: was that the first time that you were really involved

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Speaker 1: with the draft process? Yes, sir, what do you remember

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Speaker 1: about that first draft where you're in the room and

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Speaker 1: you're you're voicing your opinion and you know, really invested

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Speaker 1: in every selection. You are as a guy early and

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Speaker 1: you're that part of your career, you're reluctant to say

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Speaker 1: much of anything. There's a there's a certain paranoia, a

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Speaker 1: healthy one when it comes to the draft room on

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Speaker 1: draft day. You don't want to screw anything up and

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Speaker 1: you don't want to throw out the window all the

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Speaker 1: preparation that has been done prior to that. So early

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Speaker 1: in your career you are to speak when called upon

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Speaker 1: and otherwise, what's the old Mark Twain saying it's better

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Speaker 1: to be silent and thought a fool than to open

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Speaker 1: your mouth and confirm it. So I was very happy

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Speaker 1: to sit there and snack and what's the goings on

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Speaker 1: and try to learn how this all works. Our guest

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Speaker 1: is Greg Seeman, a former Bengal scout who is in

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Speaker 1: the Bengals draft room for thirteen years. What's Mike Brown

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Speaker 1: like during the draft? Mike is calm, thoughtful, he is

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Speaker 1: He's really good at asking questions, posing the Okay, if

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Speaker 1: it comes to this, do you want player A or

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Speaker 1: player B with this pick? And why he is steady?

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Speaker 1: I think Mike he grew up with the old Cleveland

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Speaker 1: Browns as a kid. I mean he hung out with

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Speaker 1: Dante Loobelly and the guys on the team, and so

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Speaker 1: he's been around it literally his entire life, and so

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Speaker 1: there's not a lot that would surprise him. And when

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Speaker 1: his father was the head coach of the of the

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Speaker 1: Bengals and the general manager, Mike and his brother Pete

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Speaker 1: did all of the scouting. The coaches were involved after

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Speaker 1: the season, but the preparation leading up to that was

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Speaker 1: Mike and Pete. So there's not a in that particular

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Speaker 1: room amongst the personnel guys, there's not a job that

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Speaker 1: he hadn't already done, and so there's a wealth of

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Speaker 1: experience and knowledge there. I didn't get to know his

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Speaker 1: brother Pete very well, but he was known for his

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Speaker 1: draft acumen. How big was his role during those years.

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Speaker 1: I think that his voice was the number one voice

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Speaker 1: that Mike would listen to if there was uncertainty. I

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Speaker 1: think in those years it would have been Marvin and

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Speaker 1: Pete and then Duke who would have had the most

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Speaker 1: effect on what we were about to do. YEA, Pete

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Speaker 1: lived it. He was just remarkable the amount of time

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Speaker 1: that he spent on the guys. And we had our

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Speaker 1: draft board, you know, set up by rounds, But in

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Speaker 1: this little anti room back behind the draft board and

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Speaker 1: this little hallway, Pete had a small board set up

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Speaker 1: and he would list in order as he saw them,

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Speaker 1: every draft eligible player in the country. He would have

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Speaker 1: watched all of them, so he had them labeled one

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Speaker 1: through four hundred or whatever there was as his own

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Speaker 1: kind of guide. If we were talking about someone around

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Speaker 1: and he was uncertain, he would walk around and look

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Speaker 1: at his boards, see said, guys, I have him much lower.

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Speaker 1: We need to investigate those and talk more about why

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Speaker 1: we see this player in this inflated position in the board.

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Speaker 1: Do they religiously stick to the board. I mean, you've

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Speaker 1: obviously put a ton of work into it leading up

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Speaker 1: to the draft. When you get to those three days,

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Speaker 1: do you say, all right, we have to trust the

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Speaker 1: work we put in and stick to that order for

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Speaker 1: the most part, yes, you do. Let's say that you

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Speaker 1: are picking sixteenth, middle of them, and it's the first round.

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Speaker 1: You establish through your meetings sixteen players that you are

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Speaker 1: happy to take. Within those sixteen players, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of it we're talking first round. People may not realize

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Speaker 1: that there has never been a draft where there were

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Speaker 1: thirty two first round pick guys, guys that were worthy

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Speaker 1: of you. If you say, you know, you have to

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Speaker 1: define it. So in our definition, if you're taking a

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Speaker 1: guy in the first round, you're saying that he is

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Speaker 1: quite possibly an immediate starter and that you expect him

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Speaker 1: to be an impactful player. So a skilled position, someone

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Speaker 1: that's going to produce touchdowns or interceptions, or run for

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Speaker 1: a lot of yards, or alignment that's going to get

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Speaker 1: a defensive alignment that's going to produce sax or an

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Speaker 1: offensive linement who's going to play for a long time

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Speaker 1: at a high level. So to set the board, you

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Speaker 1: have to define what each round is and then say, okay,

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Speaker 1: does this player fit the description we're giving it. So

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Speaker 1: there's no draft where there are thirty two guys that

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Speaker 1: bit them. So some drafts go twenty deep or eighteen deep.

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Speaker 1: So if you're sitting there in the middle of the

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Speaker 1: first round and you've got sixteen guys and maybe there

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Speaker 1: are twelve of them, who are these guys are really good?

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Speaker 1: And these next four, yeah they're first round guys, but

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Speaker 1: they're not quite the same first round guy as these

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Speaker 1: other twelve. So at that point, then if one of

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Speaker 1: those twelve seems to be going to be available a

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Speaker 1: spot or two ahead of where you're going to go,

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Speaker 1: then that's when you might talk about moving up a

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Speaker 1: cup of spots, not in violation of your board, but

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Speaker 1: maybe better use of the board. You have to have

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Speaker 1: a guy, and you have to believe that the work

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Speaker 1: and all the discussions you've done with coaches and the

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Speaker 1: personnel and the arguments and where you ended up is

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Speaker 1: a good plan and yes, for the most part, you

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Speaker 1: need to stay true to your board. Now, I imagine

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Speaker 1: people listening to this heard you say that in no

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Speaker 1: draft are there thirty two guys worthy of a first

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Speaker 1: round grade, and they're thinking, well, the Bengals take thirty

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Speaker 1: are going thirty first this year, does that mean they're

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Speaker 1: not going to get a first round guy. I think

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Speaker 1: what a lot of people don't recognize is that the

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Speaker 1: Bengals are probably going to get a guy at number

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Speaker 1: thirty one that's about fourteenth on their board, or that

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Speaker 1: that's just kind of a random number, but somebody that

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Speaker 1: is very much higher than the thirty first best player

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Speaker 1: right in their mind. Well, that's right, and you when

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Speaker 1: you're picking thirty first, it means that you have an

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Speaker 1: awfully good football team, and so a player, a specific

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Speaker 1: player who would fit a spot on your team, that

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Speaker 1: he may be more valuable to you than he is

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Speaker 1: to some other players, because it's a very specific skill

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Speaker 1: set that you're looking for. But you'll also see oftentimes,

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Speaker 1: you know the Patriots for years, we're picking down near

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Speaker 1: the bottom, and what they realized early on was that

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Speaker 1: the second round starts around pick twenty twenty five somewhere

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Speaker 1: in there. And so if someone below you has eyes

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Speaker 1: for this person in the first round at thirty one,

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Speaker 1: well let's trade down and get a couple more picks.

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Speaker 1: We'll take an extra second rounder because we think that

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Speaker 1: that's one more guy in this category of players that

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Speaker 1: are kind of the same guys. They're good players, they're

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Speaker 1: going to play a lot in the NFL. But if

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Speaker 1: you have defined the first round as this guy, we

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Speaker 1: want people that are going to be Pro bowlers. That

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean they're bad players. Aren't that many Pro bowlers around,

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Speaker 1: So that's an area where you we'll see teams trade

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Speaker 1: down a little bit and teams that are a little

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Speaker 1: needy jumping up to take someone at thirty one. And

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Speaker 1: now you also have to weigh in the fact that

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Speaker 1: that thirty first and thirty second pick have five year contract,

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Speaker 1: and that can be really meaningful as you look forward

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Speaker 1: at your cap numbers. Maybe it's an offensive lineman or

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Speaker 1: a defensive lineman who you want to have for a

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Speaker 1: long time. It's really nice to have that fifth year

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Speaker 1: build into that first year that first round contract. So

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Speaker 1: that's another element into the decisions there. We're getting a

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Speaker 1: peek into the war room from former Bengal Scott Greg Seeman.

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Speaker 1: How big of a concern is leaking information in this process?

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Speaker 1: I think it's a pretty big concern in some places.

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Speaker 1: You know, there are only three people that have access

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Speaker 1: to the draft board, and the room is double locked,

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Speaker 1: and there are cameras and laser sensors informations. As Pete

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Speaker 1: Brown used to say, once information is out, it's out

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Speaker 1: at all levels. Now there are some that like to

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Speaker 1: play the information game and they will leak to a

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Speaker 1: writer or an agent that you know, we're really leaning

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Speaker 1: this way, or we think this guy's great, and they

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Speaker 1: want that information out there. But certainly you don't want

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Speaker 1: to broadcast what your intentions are. It changes the value

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Speaker 1: of picks. It changes the values placed on certain players

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Speaker 1: in what teams are willing to if they want to

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Speaker 1: jump ahead of you, or if you're trying to if

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Speaker 1: they know you want a certain guy and you call

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Speaker 1: them on draft day about moving up, the price for

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Speaker 1: that spot may have gone up if they believe that

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Speaker 1: you are desperate to go get that player. So yes,

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Speaker 1: that information needs to stay in the house. How much

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Speaker 1: did things change as Duke Tobin took on a more

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Speaker 1: prominent role in running the draft. I think that we

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Speaker 1: streamlined our work everybody. The traditional approach to it is

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Speaker 1: that in the spring after the draft, scouts go out

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Speaker 1: to all the colleges in their region, their area and

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Speaker 1: get a first thought on next year's draft eligible players

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Speaker 1: at those universities, and you're building networks, talking to coaches,

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing. And then in the fall you're

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Speaker 1: with your team for a little while in training camp,

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Speaker 1: and then as the colleges start to practice and play,

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Speaker 1: you're just gone. From maybe the third week of August

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Speaker 1: until the end of the college season, you're on those

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Speaker 1: campuses and doing all of that. We did have a

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Speaker 1: smaller number of scouts, but as as as Duke pointed out,

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Speaker 1: let's go and look at the guys that are going

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Speaker 1: to play in the NFL, there's a there's some busy

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Speaker 1: work that goes on with some of the teams that

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Speaker 1: have really big scouting stamps. They'll they'll go into a

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Speaker 1: college and grade every senior, for example, in the program.

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Speaker 1: So maybe there are eighteen seniors, Well, the place may

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Speaker 1: have three prospects, and our approach was going in and

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Speaker 1: find out who are the prospects, and let's pay attention

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Speaker 1: to those guys and let's get on to the next place.

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Speaker 1: So gosh, probably seven or eight years ago, Duke came

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Speaker 1: up with the idea that the way that the film

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Speaker 1: is distributed now we have all the video immediately from

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Speaker 1: the colleges, and it can be really inefficient if you're

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Speaker 1: at a If you're at a big school as a

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Speaker 1: scout and you go there on a Wednesday to watch

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Speaker 1: practice and watch tape, there may be a dozen other

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Speaker 1: scouts there and sitting in a darkened room for the

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Speaker 1: big part of the day, Trying to watch the video

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Speaker 1: tape with eleven other people is a lot like having

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Speaker 1: twelve people fighting over the remote to watch television. You

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Speaker 1: can't you wait, run that back and then one guy's

305
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Speaker 1: going slowly and run that back running and ten other

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Speaker 1: guys we've already seen this. Can we go into something else?

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Speaker 1: So Duke came to me with the idea and I

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Speaker 1: agreed with it wholeheartedly. He said, let's do this. Let's

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Speaker 1: go out in the fall for a couple months, and

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Speaker 1: let's not worry about looking at the video tape. You

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Speaker 1: might hit two schools in a day. You know, if

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Speaker 1: I had the Atlantic States, for example, so I could

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Speaker 1: hit Duke, North Carolina and North Canina State in two days,

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Speaker 1: and instead of sitting in that room with all the

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Speaker 1: other scouts, go around and talk to people. So I

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Speaker 1: would spend time in the training room. I'd go see

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Speaker 1: the academic counselor you know, any coaches you could grab,

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Speaker 1: and let's let's build that kind of information in person,

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Speaker 1: and then let's come back home and we can sit.

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Speaker 1: I can sit for a day in my office and

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Speaker 1: watch all the North Carolina film I want to watch uninterrupted.

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Speaker 1: And I thought that was a brilliant idea. It really

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Speaker 1: streamlined our time and it made I got to see

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Speaker 1: a lot more video, I got to spend a lot

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Speaker 1: more time on it, and I got to talk to

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Speaker 1: more people on campus. So I don't know that many

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Speaker 1: teams do it that way even yet, but I thought that,

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Speaker 1: you know, we had to run of some really good

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Speaker 1: drafts when we were in the kind of the glory

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Speaker 1: years of Marvin's tenure there, and I thought that that

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Speaker 1: approach was a big part of that. I thought we

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Speaker 1: were more well informed, maybe than some of the other teams.

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Speaker 1: When you're on the road talking to trainers, academic advisors,

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00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:44,639
Speaker 1: assistant coaches, etc. How long I started. They not very

335
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Speaker 1: you and you know that going in part of the

336
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 1: you know, for the thirteen years that I was there,

337
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:53,760
Speaker 1: I had the same area, so I was on the

338
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:59,119
Speaker 1: East coast, and so a part of that is developing relationships.

339
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,960
Speaker 1: You don't really get to talk to coaches a lot

340
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:06,239
Speaker 1: during their season when you're on the campus. They'll have

341
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 1: someone assigned. When the scouts are there, we're usually sitting

342
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:11,919
Speaker 1: in their team room and somebody will come in and

343
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,879
Speaker 1: tell you about all the guys and they're gonna lie

344
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,159
Speaker 1: up and down the board to defend the players that

345
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 1: they have strength. Coaches by their nature are pretty dog

346
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 1: gone honest. You know, if you ask the right they'll

347
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,359
Speaker 1: they'll give you the speel. Here are the numbers. This

348
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,320
Speaker 1: guy benches this, this guy runs out and all that.

349
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,360
Speaker 1: But if you can get them alone and you say

350
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Speaker 1: to them, for example, when you have partner workouts, do

351
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 1: you put young guys with him? And he says no, never, never,

352
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 1: and it's because he's not a hard worker. Or you

353
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Speaker 1: may ask, have you ever thrown this guy out of

354
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Speaker 1: the weight room? Yeah, two or three times, because you

355
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 1: know the guy just won't work. So you occasionally find

356
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:04,400
Speaker 1: that Now you also find out that once the college

357
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 1: season is over and the draft eligible players aren't going

358
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 1: to be playing for them anymore. So they we're talking

359
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 1: now and after the combine, there's a period of time

360
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 1: a month or so where you can go back out

361
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,160
Speaker 1: and they're having pro days and that kind of thing.

362
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,879
Speaker 1: They're much more honest. The guy doesn't play there anymore,

363
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 1: you know, but we couldn't wait to get him out

364
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 1: of here. Or occasionally you'll know, you'll get they'll they'll

365
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: tell you things. You know what, when I talk to

366
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,920
Speaker 1: you in September, I didn't say much about this guy.

367
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 1: I want to tell you something. By the end of

368
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,160
Speaker 1: the year, he was a real leader for us. I mean,

369
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 1: this kid just grew as a person and I would

370
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: change my recommendation to the positive now. And I want

371
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:49,399
Speaker 1: to make sure you hear that because I know I

372
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 1: didn't leave a very good impression of him early on.

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Speaker 1: So it works both ways. But they are more forthcoming

374
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Speaker 1: once the once they don't have to have the kid

375
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Speaker 1: in the program, and maybe that leaks. There was one

376
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 1: strength coach at a university I will not mention that

377
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 1: I thought was just over the top, and what he

378
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 1: did on every kid's locker, he had a belcro strip

379
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 1: next to their nameplate at the top of their locker,

380
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 1: and he had these little message boards made up and

381
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: it said things like hard worker, leader, non compliant, lazy,

382
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,400
Speaker 1: you know, inconsistent, And on a weekly basis, he would

383
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 1: go in and just change those and so you could

384
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 1: walk through the locker room you see this kid's locker

385
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 1: and it says lazy. Okay, that's pretty direct. I think

386
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: the head coach after a year made him stop doing

387
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: that because he saw all the scouts walking down the

388
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 1: hall of the aisle of the locker making notes on

389
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 1: every player. But he felt that that was motivation, and

390
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,120
Speaker 1: I think that while it was well intentioned, his approach

391
00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 1: was probably less than desirable. Was there a point where

392
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: the Bengals decided to prioritize character concerns more. I think

393
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: that you know, if you if you if you have

394
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: a restaurant, for example, people that have a complaint are

395
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: much more likely to write something on the Internet about that.

396
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: And if a player has an issue and it's a

397
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 1: public issue, it gets a great deal of attention, and

398
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: not that it shouldn't, but it overshadows a whole bunch

399
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 1: of other guys on the football team. So uh, yes,

400
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,679
Speaker 1: we had a run where we had a handful of

401
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 1: players they got in trouble and that reflected badly on

402
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: everyone in the organization. So yes, then you have to

403
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: look then at what you're how you're evaluating them. I

404
00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: think that there is a there's a there's aemistry that

405
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 1: exists in a locker room. We were blessed to have

406
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 1: Andrew Witworth and Domata Peco, for example, in our locker

407
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: room all those years. If a rookie came onto the team,

408
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 1: the odds were pretty quickly he was going to end

409
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 1: up at their homes holding a couple of their kids

410
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: on their lap and waiting for dinner and just getting

411
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: a sense of you know, this is how we do it.

412
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: But even still, then you have a couple of guys

413
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: that don't behave the way you want them to behave,

414
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 1: and you have a you have to decide what your

415
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: tolerance level is for that, and at a certain point

416
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: you say, you know, this has now become a distraction.

417
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: It's beyond just something that you have to manage. It's

418
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: it's becoming a negative for our football team. And yes,

419
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 1: then you have to go you have to say, we're

420
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 1: just not going to take too many chances on guys

421
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 1: that we know could have an issue. And sometimes you

422
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: bring a guy in that has an issue that never

423
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: showed itself before, so you can't you can't always predict

424
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 1: it the quality of your locker room, though the leaders

425
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: in the locker room can handle minor issues. If it

426
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 1: becomes too big, then yeah, the player has to go

427
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 1: and you have to think in a different direction. Andrew

428
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: Whitworth and Delmato Pecco came in the same draft two

429
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: thousand and six, Jonathan Joseph same year, so that was

430
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,360
Speaker 1: obviously an extremely successful year in the draft for the Bengals.

431
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: Do you have a favorite draft or a favorite draft

432
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 1: pick from the thirteen years he spent with the team.

433
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: I think wit he was He was not in my area,

434
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: he was in the South, but I got to know him.

435
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: And when we had our at the Indianapolis Combine, you

436
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 1: get you can select a group of players to interview.

437
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: You get fifteen minutes which each of each of them.

438
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 1: Each team has a room, a hotel room basically, and

439
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: the players come by and so Witt came in and

440
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,239
Speaker 1: you in that fifteen minutes you're trying to get to

441
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 1: know him, and you try to have a oh, a

442
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 1: set of questions that might help them reveal something about themselves.

443
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: And a lot of times you put videotape on of

444
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: them playing and you asked them to explain what we're seeing.

445
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 1: We simply asked Wit to look at a play, I think,

446
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: and about ten minutes later, after he had finished discussing

447
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 1: every aspect of his footwork, his hand placement, where the

448
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: safety was, how he knew this guy was going to

449
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: go inside because the placement of the pre safety and

450
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: the linebacker stuff. That was at that moment when he

451
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: left the room that Marvin Lewis turned to Paul Alexander,

452
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 1: or line coach, and famously said, if we draft this guy,

453
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 1: I don't need you. He can coach them himself. So

454
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,719
Speaker 1: and you just knew his maturity and part of it

455
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: was his size. I mean, there's a sixty seventh, three

456
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty pound guy that was really smart and

457
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 1: a good human being. You just thought that, you know this,

458
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 1: this guy is going to be so good for so long.

459
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: The other one, for me, it was in my area.

460
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: Giovanni Bernard was, you know, the kind of a scat

461
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,880
Speaker 1: back and punt returner int North Carolina. But I did

462
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: have good contacts there, the video guy and one of

463
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 1: the trainers, and they went out of their way to say,

464
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 1: I gotta understand Geo as a special human. You want

465
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,199
Speaker 1: him on your team. He's not only a good player,

466
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: he's just really, really a good person. And so Hugh

467
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: Jaccent at that point was coaching our running backs, and

468
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: I called Hugh and said, we're having a pro day

469
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 1: down here at University of North Carolina, and I'm going

470
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: to be pushing for Giovanni Bernard. I need an ally

471
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: in the draft meetings leading up to this. Come down,

472
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: work him out and see what you think. So Hugh

473
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: came down for a pro day there at UNC and

474
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: worked him out. Then I think maybe he took him

475
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: to lunch, spent time with him, and then he called

476
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: me later and he said, thank you so much. He said,

477
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: this guy fits in perfectly with what we want to do.

478
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: And Geo became one of the really good third down backs,

479
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: even at his size, just a tremendous pass protector, was

480
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: so important and could catch the ball out of the

481
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: backfield and could run the ball, you know, better than

482
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: probably given credit for and more physical runner than people thought.

483
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: But those two guys really stand out just because of

484
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: all that they have contributed. Sometimes you know, you miss

485
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: on a guy and you feel bad about that. When

486
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: you see guys that are that you thought, I think

487
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: this is what this person's going to be, and then

488
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: they become that for a long period of time, and

489
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: then it makes you feel good about the work that

490
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: you did and that you got that one right. The

491
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: Bengal selected Giovanni Bernard with a thirty seventh pick in

492
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: the twenty thirteen draft. I have it in my notes

493
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: that he was eleventh on the Bengals draft board that year, which,

494
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: if true, indicates how highly the organization thought of him.

495
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: Was that pretty nerve wracking then waiting for that thirty

496
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: seventh pick to see if he would still be there.

497
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: We loved him, and Q and I won our battle

498
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: in the in the draft meetings that this guy's going

499
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: to really help us. But it brings up another points.

500
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 1: As Duke would always point out, you know, there are

501
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: two grades. The most important grade is the grade that

502
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: you as an organization put on a player relative to

503
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: your football team. And then there's the grade of how

504
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: the league is going to see this player, and we

505
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: were well aware that the league would not see Giovanni

506
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: Bernard as a first round running back, so there was

507
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: no way he was going to go in those first

508
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: thirty two picks. But for us, we saw a guy

509
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: who had first round qualities and we thought that he

510
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: would have phil a real role on our team, would

511
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: catch a lot of passes out of the backfield and

512
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: in our offense, that was a real possibility the ball

513
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: was going to be thrown to a back and that

514
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: he would play for a long time, so he would

515
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: be an impact player. So once you got into the

516
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: second round, yeah, thirty three, thirty four, thirty five, then

517
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: you're starting to squirm a little bit. But that you

518
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: mentioned information earlier, see that would be a pivotal bit

519
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: of information. It would have been noticed by other teams

520
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: that the Bengals running back coach was present at the

521
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: North Carolina Pro Day, because one of the things you

522
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: do as a scout is whether it's on your phone

523
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: or a tablet or a piece of paper in your pocket,

524
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: you're making note. Well, Tomlin was there and so and

525
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: the general manager was there too. So when you come

526
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: back in your draft meetings, after the pro days, you're

527
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: we're talking about where do you think everybody else? Seas?

528
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: And the Steelers had seven guys there, so I think

529
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: they liked the guy, you know, so we were Yeah,

530
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: you would have been a little concerned that people would

531
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: have recognized that Geo was important to us. Our guest

532
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: is former Bengal scouting former NFL assistant coach Greg Sieman.

533
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: One of the bengals all time best draft picks was

534
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: Gino Atkins fourth round in twenty ten. What stands out

535
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: about that selection? Bill Tobin. Bill was helping us and

536
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: was doing scouting. Then Duke's father in a long time

537
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: scout and personnel guy and a general manager, and he

538
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: had Georgia, and he was just adamant that Gino was

539
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: a hard guy to block, that he would be able

540
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: to rush the passer from an interior line position, which

541
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: we did not have at the time, and that we

542
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: shouldn't worry that he wasn't the tallest guy or necessarily

543
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: the biggest guy, but he was just going. He was

544
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: strong and had balance and was powerful. And then when

545
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: you met Gino, he was the quietest guy. You couldn't

546
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: get him to talk. I mean, Jay Hayes coached him

547
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: for years and he said, I've had like two conversations

548
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: with the kid. He's in the room every day, so

549
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: I mean we talked football stuff. He said, he's just

550
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: a quiet guy, but he was so intense. And when

551
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: you saw how powerful he was and his balance, balance

552
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: for those interior defensive lineman comes into play because they

553
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: get double teamed a lot, they get combination blocked a lot,

554
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: and so they're getting pushed kind of in two directions

555
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: and a lot of and some of them get turned

556
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: and they fall or they go to the ground. And

557
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: he just was so sturdy, and the fact that he

558
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: wasn't six five and yet was so powerful was a

559
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: real advantage for him because he had this built in

560
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: leverage that these taller offensive linemen they just couldn't move him.

561
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: You know, it's like a big picture a really a

562
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: boulder with a flat bottom sitting on the ground and

563
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: you can't roll it and you can't push it. And

564
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 1: that's kind of how he was and that made such

565
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: a difference for the linebackers in the run game. And

566
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: then when he was singled up on a guard or

567
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: a center in the past protection, if they didn't give

568
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: that person help Gino would just push them back into

569
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: the quarterback space to the advantage of Michael Johnson and

570
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: Colonel Stone Lap on the outside. From two thousand and

571
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 1: nine to twenty fourteen, the Bengals had a run of

572
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: six straight drafts that worked out really well. In two fifteen,

573
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 1: the streak ended Cedric o'boyhey in round one, Jake Fisher

574
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: in round two. PJ. Dawson was one of two selections

575
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: that the Bengals made in round three that year. Obviously,

576
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 1: none of those guys really worked out the NFL. Was

577
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: that a draft where you felt like he made mistakes?

578
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: Is that just one of those things that sooner or

579
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: later you're bound to have a bad one. We had

580
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: had a number of good drafts in a row, and

581
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: we had a good football team. We were at a

582
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 1: point where we did not know how long Wit was

583
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: going to play, and we felt like we were at

584
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 1: a point where we had good depth on the team

585
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: and we could bring in some guys who did not

586
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: necessarily have to play that first year but would become

587
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: the heir apparent. That was the plan. Oh boy he

588
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: Paul Alexander, the line coach, felt that he was one

589
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 1: of the best prospects he had ever seen, and then

590
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: Cedric in their bowl game that year, suffered a knee injury.

591
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 1: We consulted with the physicians that saw him at the Combine,

592
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: and our own doctors examined him when we brought him

593
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: to Cincinnati. The consensus was this was while it was

594
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: a knee injury, it was one that has dealt with

595
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: all the time, and that he should be fine. Fisher

596
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: was from Oregon, aggressive, pretty good athlete. The thinking was

597
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,839
Speaker 1: that those two guys could become the tackles. They just

598
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: didn't for whatever the reasons are. I left after the

599
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: fifteen season, so I wasn't there for a lot of

600
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 1: their early developments. I can't speak intelligently about what happened

601
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 1: to them, but clearly we got it wrong because they

602
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 1: didn't develop, and we went through the same process we

603
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: had done for the previous six drafts and we simply missed.

604
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 1: And that's a shame. Luckily continued to play and continues

605
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 1: to play until just a couple of weeks ago, so

606
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: it wasn't like you didn't have a tackle, you know,

607
00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 1: at that point immediately, But yeah, we just missed, and

608
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: that does happen. How heated. Does it get in the

609
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: draft room. I think it depends on the personalities. Mike

610
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 1: would let you argue to a point, but if he

611
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: thought it became personal or non productive in some way,

612
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 1: he would put a quick into it. But I think

613
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 1: that you know, one of Mike's really good traits is

614
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 1: that he's a very good listener and a very observant person,

615
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:36,760
Speaker 1: and he would be interested in the level of passion

616
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 1: you displayed about your guy as long as it was reasonable.

617
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: He and Duke both did a really good job of

618
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: reminding everyone at the outset that we want you to

619
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: speak your mind. We want you to defend the players

620
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: who are in your area that you really like. But

621
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: let us remember that everybody has a voice here and

622
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: that our ultimate goal is to make the Cincinnati manuals better.

623
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: So that's what our decisions based upon. And Mike would

624
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 1: say at the time, don't be upset if I don't

625
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: go the way you want me to go. I hear

626
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 1: what you're saying, I also have to hear what everybody

627
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,800
Speaker 1: else is saying, and I have to have my own view.

628
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: So I would encourage you to speak up and say

629
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: your piece, and then we'll make a decision, and when

630
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 1: we'll walk out of here, it's everyone's decision. I don't

631
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: want to know. One thing he would not tolerate is

632
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear somebody going down the hall

633
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: into another person's office. Is that, can you believe that, Jesus,

634
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: we just screwed this up. So I don't want to

635
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,479
Speaker 1: hear that. We will make a decision as a group

636
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: and then it's our decision and everybody lives with them.

637
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: So I thought Mike handled that kind of thing really well.

638
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: Are there any examples you can share of when a

639
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: guy that the Bengals really want was taken one or

640
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: two picks before they were on the clock, And does

641
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 1: that happen frequently? Is that something that happens almost every year?

642
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 1: I think I can't think of an example immediately. Sure

643
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: it happens, But as I laid out in when we

644
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 1: started with the first round, and I said, if you're

645
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 1: picking sixteenth, sixteen names, you repeat that process over and over.

646
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: So the draft is a three day endeavor. So when

647
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:33,280
Speaker 1: the draft is over on the first night, the scouts

648
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: will stick around and you've taken those thirty two players

649
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: off of your board, and now you have reordered it

650
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: with the next whatever is in the second round, however

651
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: made that is forty or something. You reorder it based

652
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: upon what you have, how you graded those guys. And

653
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: then early the next morning, everybody comes back in and

654
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 1: we say, okay, here's where we are. Do we want

655
00:39:57,800 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 1: to make any adjustment to it? Well, why would you

656
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,439
Speaker 1: make an adjustment. You might make an adjustment based upon

657
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: who you got in the first round. You know, if

658
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 1: you took your quarterback in the first round, then these

659
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 1: other quarterbacks that were in that next group of players

660
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 1: come off, you're not going to take them, and so

661
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 1: you're going to elevate some guys up and you have

662
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: to have a really good discussion at that point of Right,

663
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: we're picking sixteenth gear again here in the second round.

664
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: Here are the sixteen guys numbered one through sixteen that

665
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: we want. You know, who we really want. We want

666
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: thirteen if we could get thirteen. So you're watching it

667
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 1: play out, and then that again is where the discussion

668
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: comes in. All Right, we've got Atlanta ahead of us,

669
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: and we're looking at a edge rusher. They've got, let's

670
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: say they have two great edge rushers. They're not going

671
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: to draft an edge rusher, but this team behind us

672
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,280
Speaker 1: maybe looking at the same thing we're looking at. Should

673
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: we call Atlanta first, for example, and say we'd like

674
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: to move up to your spot because we can assure

675
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,399
Speaker 1: ourselves that we'll get our guys. So there's a little

676
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: bit of play with it, you know, at that point,

677
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: based upon who you've already taken. For example. One thing

678
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,320
Speaker 1: that's interested me over the years that I didn't realize

679
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: is that what we see on TV is not live

680
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: in the draft room. You're several minutes ahead, correct, yes, yeah, yeah,

681
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: they in the first round, you have ten minutes, and

682
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: the TV programming they're working on a ten minute schedule

683
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: as well, and when they plot out the broadcast, so

684
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 1: they are allowing this person to talk about the players

685
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,839
Speaker 1: and this person. Then there's a commercial break, and so

686
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,919
Speaker 1: the teams. If you know who you're picking, and if

687
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,959
Speaker 1: nobody is calling on the phone, and normally you will

688
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 1: wait unless you're just absolutely sort of we're taking this

689
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: guy no matter what. As soon as it's your turn,

690
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: you'll call New York and they'll hand in the card.

691
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: If you aren't a position and say, well, five minutes,

692
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 1: let's see if somebody calls and what they have, and

693
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: you will have already discussed. If we're picking sixteen and

694
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 1: we're thinking we might move, what would we take in return.

695
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 1: So you have all that in your mind, and you

696
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: have two people in the room that man the phones

697
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: that other teams can call in and say, hey, we

698
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 1: interested in moving. So a lot is going on there,

699
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 1: but rarely does does a team take those full ten minutes. Yes,

700
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: it's the pick is in and then you wait several

701
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 1: minutes before you see it on television. Yeah, it is

702
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 1: a very highly rated TV show, So this stuff is important.

703
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 1: I mean, the draft kills NBA playoff games, Major League

704
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 1: Baseball games MLS. I mean, it's it's really kind of

705
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 1: crazy that to watch this thing, but it says, yes,

706
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 1: it's a primetime showcase. Yeah, but if I'm not mistake, in,

707
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: the combined rating of the first round of the NFL

708
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 1: Draft between the various networks that now carry it exceeds

709
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: any game of the World Series, which is crazy to

710
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: me being a lifelong baseball fan. But that shows you

711
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: the power of the NFL. Yeah, that's same here. I

712
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: grew up with the Big Red Machine as a local guy,

713
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: and I can't imagine that the World Series was jeez,

714
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: everything you kept scoring. You kept your score book at home. Yeah,

715
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 1: it's very true. The NFL is a monster in terms

716
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: of television. All Right, a few more hard hitting questions

717
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: for my friend Greg Seman, the former Bengal Scout. How

718
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 1: much snacking is done in the war room and what's available.

719
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 1: The amount of snacking at the beginning is casual, and

720
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: the closer you get to your pick, it's by the handful,

721
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:46,240
Speaker 1: and you have somebody coming in just dumping checks, mix

722
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: and candy bars and uh and our and our draft room.

723
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 1: Licorice was very popular, either the stringy kind or the

724
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: little cheolabol bikes. Um, a little longer lasting. Yeah, so

725
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 1: it's uh yeah, just a tension reliever, I suppose, but yeah,

726
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 1: a lot as it gets closer to it. And then

727
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 1: if you if you really get the guy you want,

728
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: you're really happy, then there's celebratory snacking, you know, people,

729
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 1: can I get you another candy bar? There? You know,

730
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: self congratulations for a few minutes, and then you start

731
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: thinking about the next round and oh god, is he

732
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:21,439
Speaker 1: going to be there? What are we going to do?

733
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 1: That kind of thing. One of the funny things that

734
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 1: it's not it's not funny at the time, but you

735
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 1: have a player. Again, let's say we're picking sixteen. You

736
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: have a player ranked eight and he doesn't get picked

737
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:42,800
Speaker 1: eight or nine or ten or eleven or twelve. He's sliding,

738
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: and you're looking at each other and say, Okay, is

739
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: this really good or is this really bad? Do people

740
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,879
Speaker 1: know something we don't know? And you start you might

741
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 1: reach out to contacts that you have, maybe somebody maybe

742
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: a writer that has covered that guy, or somebody at

743
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 1: the school who you have a good relationship. Why is

744
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: this guy sliding? Is there going to be our rest

745
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: report tomorrow that we don't know about? And that can

746
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: be that can be really agonizing because you don't We

747
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: don't want to be the sucker so to speak, that

748
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: takes this guy. And another part of you is saying,

749
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 1: dag on it. We did our research on him. This

750
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: guy's really good. These folks are just wrong and if

751
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,359
Speaker 1: he slides to us, we're going to hit a home run.

752
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 1: And so that tension can show up unexpectedly sometimes and

753
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: you just have to work through it and stay true

754
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: to what you believe and then try like hell to

755
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 1: find out if there's something you don't know, were you

756
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: amazed by the remote draft a couple of years ago

757
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 1: with Roger Goodell and his basement and you know, Duke

758
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: Tobin with a live camera in his home and all

759
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, yeah, amazed as a good word. I

760
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: mean it just um, well it like all of everyone

761
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: that's working from home during that period. It's just different.

762
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 1: I mean, people are disassociated from another physically, and yeah,

763
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 1: I didn't find it very appealing. As much as they

764
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 1: can maybe be bill mannered at times, it's nice to

765
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: have the fans in the draft and their reaction is important,

766
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: I think. So it was a little bizarre almost. You

767
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: were an NFL assistant coach in Dallas and in Cleveland,

768
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,919
Speaker 1: where the coaching staffs are not in the war room,

769
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 1: at least not all of the time. Should they be

770
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: Do the Bengals have this right? I have a strong

771
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 1: feeling that all the people that have worked to build

772
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: the draft should be available in the room. One is

773
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 1: a reward for all that they have done. Two to

774
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 1: have their availability if there's a last minute question, and

775
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 1: that what that question would be is, well, unexpectedly, guys,

776
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,879
Speaker 1: we can have choice here between these two players at

777
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: the same position. We have one rated above the other.

778
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: We think they're both really good. Is there anything that

779
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 1: sways us between these two at this point, maybe based

780
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 1: upon somebody else we drafted already or whatever. The immediacy

781
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 1: of that is good, But to go the other on

782
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 1: the other side of it, you can't have chaos. And

783
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 1: so you asked me early on about the two thousand

784
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 1: and four draft, and I said, you speak when spoken to.

785
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: That does have to be the way that the room works.

786
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 1: I think that if you if you were a team

787
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 1: that truly had some concerns about leaks and you just

788
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 1: didn't feel good about your people in that regard, that

789
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 1: would be part of it. There is a complicating factor

790
00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 1: more these days than probably when I first started, even

791
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 1: and that's agents. Agents that represent both coaches and players,

792
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:11,280
Speaker 1: and they have their own relationship, and you have to

793
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 1: make sure you say, and Mike said this to the coaches,

794
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: if I find out that you're leaking information from the

795
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 1: draft board about where we are on one of your

796
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: agents players, then that's fiable. We can't do that. So

797
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,800
Speaker 1: that would be a bit of an argument for having

798
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:41,439
Speaker 1: fewer have access to it. But I felt like when

799
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: you luck most all the people out who have done

800
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:48,240
Speaker 1: all this work. It's a little insulting and a little

801
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 1: disappointing for a young scout. I think it's important that

802
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 1: he is in the room. If his aspirations are to

803
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: run a personnel department or it would ultimately be a

804
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 1: general manager, it is greatly to his benefit or her benefit.

805
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 1: Because we have more and more young ladies coming into scouting,

806
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 1: which is awesome, it's to their benefit to be in

807
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: the room and see how it works, to see how

808
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 1: it is when you've got three minutes left on the

809
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: pick and suddenly the Dallas Cowboys called, they want to

810
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: move to your spot, and they're just sweeping the offer.

811
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: You've got to have a calm, steady hand there and

812
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: how to handle that because it's not like the movie

813
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 1: Draft Day where it happens all the time, but it

814
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 1: does happen, and it happens in a point where you

815
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: have time constraints, like who was it several years ago

816
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 1: Minnesota Vikings missed their turn and somebody jumped ahead of

817
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:47,399
Speaker 1: them and took their spot. So I think that there's

818
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 1: a benefit being in that room and seeing how that

819
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 1: all works. So I would favor having the people that

820
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 1: have done the work to be in the draft room

821
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: at least as observers and available as a sounding or

822
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 1: if there's some discussion that has to take place. Were

823
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 1: you working for the Browns when Draft Day came out?

824
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,320
Speaker 1: I want to say, yeah, I was there starting in sixteen,

825
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,320
Speaker 1: so I think the movie came out around and that

826
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: was entertaining, and you know, I love the great message

827
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 1: he used to stay true and he got the general managers,

828
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: got the note to himself in his desk drawer, you know,

829
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 1: to remind himself, stay true to what you believe and

830
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 1: take this guy. And then it was a little overdone

831
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: with the birthday party, you know, and they interviewed the kid.

832
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 1: Yet why didn't many of your teammates come to your

833
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: birthday party? But there is some you know, that was dramatic, certainly,

834
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: But that is the kind of I think the point

835
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 1: they we're making is a good one. That's the kind

836
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,439
Speaker 1: of thing that you expect a good area scout to

837
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 1: find out that, you know, he's in that school three

838
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 1: or four times a year, and he developed relationships where

839
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,720
Speaker 1: he can go down the hall and go into somebody's

840
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 1: office unannounced and they have a friendly relationship and say,

841
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 1: you know, what's going on with this kid? And you'd

842
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 1: find out. So it was entertaining. Yes, we are about

843
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 1: a week before the draft, what's going on right now?

844
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 1: And is the work basically done? Yes, boards are set.

845
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 1: The process has always been assume it's the same. Obviously

846
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: I haven't been in that part of it for a

847
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 1: few years, but the last week generally was you would

848
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 1: do a series of mock drafts yourself, and so you

849
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 1: might take In our case, we would take all the

850
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,879
Speaker 1: coaches and scouts in the room and you would have

851
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: but one or two teams that you represented. You were

852
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:43,919
Speaker 1: their general manager for this draft, and then we would

853
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,279
Speaker 1: spend a couple of days doing drafts. And so I'm

854
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: the New York Giants, and I picked John Smith, and

855
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 1: you would come down and there's your spot, and then

856
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 1: Mike would make the pick, or we would discuss it

857
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: and say, Okay, yep, we're going to stay right where

858
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:05,839
Speaker 1: we were and take that guy. Next day you might

859
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 1: do it and he would ask you to make different picks,

860
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 1: and maybe the person you were left with was the

861
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 1: sixteenth player on your sixteen player list, and you're thinking

862
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 1: that the seventeenth and eighteenth players are just about as

863
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 1: good and we can pick up a second round pick.

864
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 1: So we're if that happens, we may call these guys

865
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 1: because we think they're looking for this same player, and

866
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:31,399
Speaker 1: maybe we can move back to get their second round

867
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 1: picks still get a guy we really like. So you

868
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 1: do that and you have that discussion of you try

869
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:40,839
Speaker 1: to have done your research teams that you think might

870
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 1: like to move to your spot, and so then you

871
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 1: have the discussion of, Okay, the Philadelphia Eagles, as anticipated

872
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 1: have called us about this sixteenth pick, what do we

873
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:56,839
Speaker 1: want in compensation? And what we learned in the last

874
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 1: ten years is that general managers on a lot of

875
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 1: teams place less value on future picks than they do

876
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,879
Speaker 1: on current picks. So you feel, you know, you would

877
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:12,280
Speaker 1: say to them, Okay, well here's what we want. Maybe

878
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 1: we want your starting right tackle and your third round pick,

879
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: or we will trade your first round picks. We want

880
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 1: a second and the fourth, or we will trade you

881
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 1: first round picks. We want to second and next year's first,

882
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 1: because they don't value it as much as they do

883
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,399
Speaker 1: this year's. Sometimes it's a GM who's in the last

884
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 1: year of his contract that he really doesn't care about

885
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 1: that future pick. He just wants his player to save us.

886
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 1: But so you try to rehearse as much as you

887
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 1: can what's going to happen on draft days, so there

888
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 1: aren't surprised. It's much like putting on a play, for example.

889
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 1: You rehearse it and rehearse it and rehearse it. And

890
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 1: so you, as somebody once said, have a plan, execute

891
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 1: the plan, and plan for the unexpected, and that last

892
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 1: week is the planning for the unexpected part of that.

893
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 1: I think last thing. I think a lot of NFL fans,

894
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 1: football fans in general, would say being inside the war

895
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:15,279
Speaker 1: room during the draft would be on their bucket list,

896
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,879
Speaker 1: would be one of the coolest things they could experience.

897
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 1: Do you feel that way about the thirteen years that

898
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 1: you were in there with the Bengals. Yes, for a

899
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 1: personnel guy, that's the super Bowl and it's the culmination

900
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 1: of so much. You know, the free agency period starts

901
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 1: in early March, and teams have different philosophies about free agency,

902
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 1: but free agency oftentimes will define a portion of your draft.

903
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 1: So you want to get that part right. And then

904
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:53,359
Speaker 1: if you've done that and you've eliminated the necessity of

905
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 1: drafting for need because you didn't answer your problem with

906
00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:59,800
Speaker 1: a veteran left guard or whatever it is, and that

907
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: you've got to move this left guard way up your

908
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 1: board out of need. You don't want to do that.

909
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 1: So if you have a well planned, well designed draft,

910
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: it's a ball. You feel like you're in some control

911
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 1: and that you're making your team better and that you're

912
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 1: making your team better for a period of years. And so, yeah,

913
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 1: would it would be a it would be a well

914
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 1: experienced bucket list event. Yes, it's very cool. This has

915
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 1: been extremely enjoyable and informative. I appreciate your time and

916
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,879
Speaker 1: your friendship. Thank you so much, Dan, Thank you, it's

917
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 1: been a pleasure. By the way, the Draft Day movie

918
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: starring Kevin Costner as Sonny Weaver Junior, the fictitious GM

919
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 1: of the Browns, actually came out in twenty fourteen while

920
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:53,240
Speaker 1: Greg was still working for the Bengals, and the famous

921
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:58,239
Speaker 1: note in Sonny's pocket read Vonte mac No matter what.

922
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 1: The Bengals Booth podcast is presented by Ultimate Bengals, the

923
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:06,320
Speaker 1: free to play fantasy football game. This past season, Ultimate

924
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 1: Bengals awarded a weekly winner during the course of the

925
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 1: year with tickets, autograph merchandise and money can't buy experiences

926
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 1: all up for grabs. Find Ultimate Bengals in the app

927
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 1: Store and Google Play. One of the best websites for

928
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:24,880
Speaker 1: information about the draft is Pro Football Network dot Com.

929
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:28,360
Speaker 1: They also have a fun and easy to use draft simulator.

930
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,360
Speaker 1: I did a three round mock draft today and got

931
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 1: Iowa center Tyler Linderbaum in round one, Colorado State tight

932
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 1: end Trey McBride and round two, and Alabama cornerback Jalen

933
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 1: armor Davis in round three. I think most Bengals fans

934
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 1: would be happy with that, but I'm not so sure

935
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 1: that Tony Pauline would agree. He's the senior draft analyst

936
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 1: for Pro Football Network dot Com and I caught up

937
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:57,319
Speaker 1: with Tony this week. Tony, the name that comes up

938
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 1: most frequently on mock drafts to the Bengals is Iowa

939
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:04,839
Speaker 1: center Tyler Linderbaum. Let's start with your evaluation. How good

940
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 1: is Tyler Linderbaum. I think he's worth a late late

941
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 1: first round pick early second round pick. I thought that

942
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 1: he has been overrated throughout most of the process. There

943
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 1: was talk here in New York about the Jets potentially

944
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: taking him with one of their two top ten picks.

945
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 1: I thought that was ridiculous, But I think the late

946
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 1: first round may not be a bad place for him.

947
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: He's a solid player, he's not a great player. He's

948
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 1: a zone blocker. He's a guy that needs a running

949
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 1: start into his blocks. He's not a big, strong, mailer guy.

950
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 1: I tell people go back and watch the film of

951
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 1: the Big Ten title game when he was basically handled

952
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 1: by Chris Hinton, and then you factor in that he's

953
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 1: only he has arms that are barely thirty one inches long,

954
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 1: and you wonder how he's going to handle those big

955
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 1: Jordan Davis type defensive tackles in the middle of the line.

956
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 1: I think if you put him in his own blocking situation,

957
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 1: you ask him to get out to the second level,

958
00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: you have to pull across the line of scrimmage and

959
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: block emotion, He's gonna do exceptionally well. He's a tough guy.

960
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 1: She's not a very big or powerful guy. But still

961
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 1: I think it fits in need and I think the

962
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 1: end of round one isn't a bad spot for Linderbaum. Tony.

963
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 1: It sounds like you are not as high on Linderbaum

964
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 1: as many well, I mean as far as centers are concerned.

965
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 1: There are Day two and Day three guys. I think

966
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:23,680
Speaker 1: someone like Cameron Jergens of Nebraska, who I think is

967
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 1: ridiculously underrated. I have him as a third round pick.

968
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 1: But I think Cameron Jergens Nebraska is better value at

969
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 1: the end of round two for the Bengals than say,

970
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 1: Tyler Linderbaum is the end of round one. And then

971
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 1: you get guys like Zach tom of Wick Forrest, Dylan

972
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 1: Palm of Memphis. Those are all maybe late Day two,

973
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 1: early day three guys who I think have got a

974
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 1: tremendous tremendous amount of upside potential. But if you're looking

975
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 1: at the Bengals the end of round one, I think

976
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 1: you got to consider cornerback. You gotta see which cornerback

977
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: is still available, and they could potentially get a very

978
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 1: good one there. I think your top three cornerbacks Am

979
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 1: Odd Gardner of Cincinnati, Derek Stingley of LSU, Trent McDuffie

980
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 1: Washington will be off the board, but still whether it's

981
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 1: Roger McCreary of Auburn, kar Elam of Florida, Andrew Booth

982
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: of Clemson, Kylie Gordon of Washington, although some people think

983
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 1: that Gordon could be a late first round choice. Those

984
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 1: are all going to be considerations. Those are all good prospects,

985
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 1: and I think those are all upgrades over what the

986
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 1: Bengals presently have at cornerback. Of the four corners you

987
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 1: just mentioned McCreery, Elam, Gordon, and Booth, do you like

988
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 1: two more than the others? I love Roger McCreary of Auburn.

989
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 1: I mean, he's a tremendous shutdown cornerback. He gets it

990
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:42,440
Speaker 1: between the ears, he's got great ball skills. What he

991
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:45,440
Speaker 1: does is he does a tremendous job making plays with

992
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:47,919
Speaker 1: his back to the ball, almost knowing when the ball

993
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 1: is in his air, and getting his head back around

994
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 1: the position himself against the opponents to make plays on

995
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 1: the ball. And I recommend anybody go back and watch

996
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:59,960
Speaker 1: that Alabama Auburn game which ended the regular season last year,

997
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 1: and he was dynamite against those two outstanding Alabama receivers.

998
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 1: A problem with McCreary is he's under five foot he's

999
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 1: under six foot tall. He's five ft eleven, ran in

1000
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:14,000
Speaker 1: the low four fives at the combine, and he's got

1001
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: short arms, which is going to downgrade him. But he's

1002
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 1: got outstanding cover skills. I also like Ker Elam a lot.

1003
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 1: He's a big, physical guy, he's fast, he shows some

1004
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 1: solid ball skills. I think the issue with Elam is

1005
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:29,479
Speaker 1: opponents purposely stayed away from him. They threw the ball

1006
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 1: in the opposite direction or the opposite side of the

1007
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 1: field of where he was. And sometimes that's a little

1008
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 1: bit difficult to completely scout a player like that. But

1009
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 1: I think Elam's got a tremendous amount of upside potential.

1010
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 1: I like him a lot as well. Tony Pauline is

1011
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 1: our guest. He is the chief draft analyst for Pro

1012
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 1: Football Network dot Com. Last week, the Bengals reportedly hosted

1013
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:52,960
Speaker 1: Houston defensive lineman Logan Hall on a pre draft visit.

1014
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 1: What's your scouting report on Logan Hall? And could you

1015
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 1: see him going as high as thirty one? No, I

1016
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 1: don't think he's the first round pick. I think he's

1017
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 1: a Day two selection. He's a very athletic guy who's

1018
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 1: just hitting his stride. He's a bit of a tweeter,

1019
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 1: you know. Is he a defensive end? Is he a

1020
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 1: defensive tackle? Is he a three technique guy? I think

1021
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 1: he's got to get a little bit bigger. He's got

1022
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 1: to get a little bit stronger. I think he's got

1023
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 1: some upside, But I think that the Bengals can fit

1024
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 1: other positions of need with guys who will be able

1025
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 1: to bring more immediate impact as rookies, as opposed to Hall,

1026
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: who I think is going to need a little bit

1027
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 1: of time. I like Hall, but I like Hall as

1028
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 1: a late second round pick and a guy that will

1029
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 1: be a real good player two or three years down

1030
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 1: the road. Tony offensive line is not the obvious need

1031
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,200
Speaker 1: that it was before free agency since the Bengals went

1032
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:46,120
Speaker 1: out and signed three guys, But there's still one opening

1033
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 1: on paper for now. Left guard hasn't completely been determined.

1034
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 1: Now Ted Carris could kick over and play guard at

1035
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,919
Speaker 1: the Bengals wind up taking a center. But let's look

1036
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:58,960
Speaker 1: at the guards because the name Zion Johnson and Kenyan

1037
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 1: Green have been men and often do you like those

1038
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 1: two guys? And do you see either or both lasting

1039
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 1: as long as thirty one? I'd be surprised if both

1040
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 1: are available. Maybe one of them. I think in Zion

1041
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:14,640
Speaker 1: Johnson you're getting a guy who could play guard. He

1042
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 1: also started at left tackle for Boston College for a while.

1043
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:19,720
Speaker 1: I don't think He's gonna be a left tackle at

1044
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 1: the next level, but still, if your left tackle goes down,

1045
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 1: Zion Johnson successfully played that position at Boston College, so

1046
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:28,959
Speaker 1: we could fill in a pinch. Zion Johnson is also

1047
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:33,600
Speaker 1: a guy that successfully took snaps, etc. During Senior Bowl practices,

1048
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:35,919
Speaker 1: So you're getting a guy that can, you know, play

1049
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:38,960
Speaker 1: two interior positions and may be able to play left

1050
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 1: tackle in a need if your guy goes down. Kenyon

1051
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 1: Green is a big, moler guy. He's the type of

1052
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:47,600
Speaker 1: guy that I think a Tyler Lindebaum, you know, would

1053
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:49,800
Speaker 1: have problems with if he was on the opposite side

1054
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 1: of the ball. He's a nasty guy. He is a tough,

1055
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:55,680
Speaker 1: slug it out, punching your face type of alignement. He

1056
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 1: doesn't have the versatility of Johnson. Although Kenyon Green did

1057
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:00,560
Speaker 1: play a little bit left tackle, wasn't as good as

1058
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:04,400
Speaker 1: Zion Johnson at left tackle, but he's a bigger guy.

1059
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 1: He's more of a smash mouth power gap lineman. I

1060
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:11,360
Speaker 1: think in Johnson you're getting a good, versatile offensive lineman

1061
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 1: that can play multiple positions. You can use them in

1062
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 1: his own blocking system. I think in Kenyan Green you're

1063
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:19,080
Speaker 1: looking at more of a smash you in the mouth,

1064
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:23,480
Speaker 1: power gap type of lineman. The Bengals top three wide

1065
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 1: receivers are excellent, and they all stayed healthy last year,

1066
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:29,600
Speaker 1: but it's unlikely that pet's going to happen in back

1067
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:33,160
Speaker 1: to back seasons. How deep is the wide receiver crop

1068
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 1: in this draft and how far down would you have

1069
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 1: to go to get somebody who could contribute right away? Yeah,

1070
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:40,920
Speaker 1: you should be able to get good receivers in the

1071
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:43,000
Speaker 1: fourth and fifth round in this draft. You know, if

1072
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 1: you're talking about a guy in the fourth round of

1073
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:51,200
Speaker 1: Romeo Dubbs of Nevada, who's Carson Strong's favorite receiver. Kyle Phillips,

1074
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 1: a smallish slot guy who does a great job running routes,

1075
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: could also double up as a return specialist. Boaw Melton

1076
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:01,560
Speaker 1: of Rutgers a guy who I don't think was properly

1077
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:04,400
Speaker 1: developed at Rutgers, primarily because they had problems on the

1078
01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 1: offensive line. How the terrific Senior Bowl a week of

1079
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:10,960
Speaker 1: Senior Bowl practices, ran four three four at the combines,

1080
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:14,240
Speaker 1: so you know he's got that sort of upside. Taekwon

1081
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:16,800
Speaker 1: Thornton of Baylor, the guy who ran four to eight

1082
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:20,240
Speaker 1: during the combine. He's a toller thing guy, six two

1083
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:22,200
Speaker 1: and a half one hundred and eighty one pounds, a

1084
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:26,000
Speaker 1: lot of good developmental type of prospects that I think

1085
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:30,960
Speaker 1: as rookies could contribute as number four receivers. Tony the

1086
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:34,640
Speaker 1: Bengal's top two safeties, Jesse Bates and Von Bell, could

1087
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 1: both be in the final year of their deal. Jesse

1088
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 1: Bates was franchise tagged. Von Bell's got one year left

1089
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 1: on the contract he signed a couple of years ago.

1090
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 1: How about safety in the first few rounds? How is

1091
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:50,000
Speaker 1: that crop? I think what's gonna happen with the safeties

1092
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 1: is if you want one of the top safeties. And

1093
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 1: I'm going to take Kyle Hamilton out of this equation

1094
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:56,960
Speaker 1: for a variety of reasons, but if you want a

1095
01:04:57,000 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 1: top safety, you better draft them late in round one

1096
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 1: or by the middle of round two, because I think

1097
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:04,439
Speaker 1: they're going to be off the board late round two

1098
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 1: at round three. I mean, you're top guys or the

1099
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:12,280
Speaker 1: guys that are good safeties, terrific free safeties that goes

1100
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:15,880
Speaker 1: sidelines to sideline, excellent ball skills that could go late

1101
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 1: first round early round two include US scene of Georgia,

1102
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 1: Daxton Hill of Michigan, Jerlen Petrie of Baylor, Jaquon Brisker

1103
01:05:23,560 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 1: of Penn State, the Cross of Maryland. You know, I think,

1104
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:31,280
Speaker 1: except for maybe seen in Dixton Dixon, Daxton Hill, I'm sorry,

1105
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:34,600
Speaker 1: all those other guys are more second round picks, but

1106
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:37,280
Speaker 1: they won't be there when the Bengals are called to

1107
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 1: the clock Layton round two, I mean later on. You're

1108
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:43,640
Speaker 1: talking about guys like Portell Flat of LSU, who's sort

1109
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:47,320
Speaker 1: of a combo corner safety who's very good, only had

1110
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:49,920
Speaker 1: one really good season at LSU, although he was good

1111
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 1: last year. A little bit ta tall, thin guy Dane

1112
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 1: Belton of Iowa, who's a fourth round pick, more of

1113
01:05:56,120 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 1: a straight line downhill safety. Ron Kinley of Oregon terrific

1114
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:03,919
Speaker 1: player but not a good athlete. Could not break four

1115
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 1: six five and I'll lead up to the draft, so

1116
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:08,640
Speaker 1: you're talking about Day three guys that have got a

1117
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 1: lot of limitations in their game. Quentin Lake of UCLA

1118
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 1: as someone who I absolutely love. Terrific football player, great instincts,

1119
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 1: great ball skills, but he barely broke four six in

1120
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 1: Pro day workouts in the combine, which is going to

1121
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 1: be an issue at the next level. Tony Pauline is

1122
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 1: our guest. His big board on Pro Football Network dot

1123
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 1: Com is amazing. I highly recommend checking it out. This

1124
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:35,160
Speaker 1: is a Bengals podcast, but there's obviously a lot of

1125
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:39,800
Speaker 1: interest in UC Bearcat prospects since up to nine guys

1126
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 1: could be drafted this year. We know Sauce Gardner is

1127
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:44,720
Speaker 1: going to go in the first round. Do you think

1128
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:48,440
Speaker 1: Desmond Ritter will as well? If it was up to me,

1129
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:50,560
Speaker 1: I'd say no, because Desmond Ritter to me, is a

1130
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 1: Day two pick. But the information I'm getting back from

1131
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:56,240
Speaker 1: teams is just about everybody has a first round great

1132
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 1: on him. And you know, one thing we've seen the

1133
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:01,600
Speaker 1: past what fifteen years in the NFL draft is that

1134
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:05,200
Speaker 1: quarterbacks are always overdrafted. So I'd say right now there's

1135
01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:07,680
Speaker 1: a better than fifty fifty chance that Desmond Ritter ends

1136
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:10,200
Speaker 1: up in the first round. I have joked that my

1137
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:14,160
Speaker 1: nightmare is Desmond Ridder to the rival Pittsburgh Steelers. Could

1138
01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:18,040
Speaker 1: you see Pittsburgh taking Ridder at number twenty. I think

1139
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 1: they're leaning more towards Malik Willis of Liberty, whether he's

1140
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 1: there at twenty or whether they have to trade up

1141
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:24,919
Speaker 1: to get him. I think that's been their game plan

1142
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:28,920
Speaker 1: all along. I think there's that's a possibility. Same thing

1143
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:32,280
Speaker 1: with Matt Correll to the Steelers at twenty. How have

1144
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:38,200
Speaker 1: super seniors changed your draft evaluation this year? Well, hasn't

1145
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 1: changed the draft evaluation. What it does is it means

1146
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:44,920
Speaker 1: that there's more draftable players than there are draft slots.

1147
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:48,680
Speaker 1: And you know, you go back to last year because

1148
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:52,120
Speaker 1: so many seniors went back for that extra year of

1149
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:55,160
Speaker 1: eligibility granted to them by the NC two A, what

1150
01:07:55,200 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 1: you had was you had players that were usually seventh

1151
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:03,400
Speaker 1: type talent go in the fifth round. You had players

1152
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:06,800
Speaker 1: that usually would have been priority free agents end up

1153
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:09,880
Speaker 1: being selected in a draft. The opposite's going to happen

1154
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:12,440
Speaker 1: this year. There's going to be a ton of plethora

1155
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:15,520
Speaker 1: of talent in Day three. So what's going to happen

1156
01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 1: is guys that will usually be fourth or fifth round

1157
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 1: value could go six or seventh round just because of

1158
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:25,800
Speaker 1: the numbers, and guys that have draftable grades may end

1159
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:29,640
Speaker 1: up not getting drafted drafted at all. So basically, on

1160
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:32,640
Speaker 1: my board, there's only two fifty five players selected in

1161
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:35,439
Speaker 1: a draft. I have about two hundred and eighty players

1162
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:39,320
Speaker 1: with draftable grades. And that is primarily because so many

1163
01:08:39,360 --> 01:08:41,720
Speaker 1: players went back for that second senior season that was

1164
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:44,120
Speaker 1: granted to them by the end of two A and

1165
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:48,680
Speaker 1: you've evaluated more than fourteen hundred guys correct, correct, And

1166
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 1: this is you know, a couple of years process. This

1167
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:53,439
Speaker 1: hasn't done over the course of months. I mean most

1168
01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 1: of these guys I have notes on for two and

1169
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:58,160
Speaker 1: three years. That's why I like to look at the

1170
01:08:58,200 --> 01:08:59,840
Speaker 1: body of work. I can talk about a guy like

1171
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:04,120
Speaker 1: or extinctly throughout his career. So yeah, the evaluations are

1172
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 1: done over the course of their college careers. Obviously, more

1173
01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:11,040
Speaker 1: emphasis is put on the final year before they entered

1174
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 1: the draft, but you can't forget about the early seasons

1175
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:16,040
Speaker 1: while they were on the college field. Well, Tony, as

1176
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:19,520
Speaker 1: I mentioned, your big board is awesome. The mock simulator

1177
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:22,439
Speaker 1: on Pro Football Network dot Com is addictive. I love

1178
01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:24,519
Speaker 1: them both and I really appreciate your time and your

1179
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:27,439
Speaker 1: expertise today. Thank you so much, thanks for having me again.

1180
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:29,960
Speaker 1: That's going to do it for this episode of The

1181
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:34,360
Speaker 1: Bengals Booth podcast presented by Ultimate Bengals. Download Ultimate Bengals

1182
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:37,040
Speaker 1: ahead of the twenty twenty two season. It's free to

1183
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:42,559
Speaker 1: play next level fantasy football with fantastic Bengals prizes. Get

1184
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:45,600
Speaker 1: it now on the App Store and Google Play. And

1185
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:48,240
Speaker 1: if you haven't done so already, please subscribe to this

1186
01:09:48,280 --> 01:09:50,040
Speaker 1: podcast and if you have a minute, give it a

1187
01:09:50,120 --> 01:09:53,559
Speaker 1: rating or share a comment that helps more Bengals fans

1188
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:56,920
Speaker 1: find us. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for listening to

1189
01:09:57,120 --> 01:09:59,000
Speaker 1: the Bengals Booth podcast.