Speaker 1: Missing in Arizona contains graphic depictions of violence and may
Speaker 1: not be suitable for all listeners. This episode also discusses suicide.
Speaker 1: You can reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline at
Speaker 1: nine to eight eight. His final days and hours that
Speaker 1: April are murky. He'd been suffering from pain for a
Speaker 1: long time and drugging himself to dull it. There was
Speaker 1: a brief golden moment in the early nineties after his
Speaker 1: daughter was born, but an uneasy piece gave way to
Speaker 1: spiraling volatility. He was used to that. He came from
Speaker 1: a broken home, a child of divorce. In the end,
Speaker 1: he was alone. Someone thought they saw him at a bar,
Speaker 1: but that sighting is unconfirmed. We don't know what happened
Speaker 1: in his final hours as they wound down, though he
Speaker 1: made a choice burn out, don't fade away, exit in
Speaker 1: a flash. No one heard the gunshot. I used to
Speaker 1: live in a building in Seattle called the Okay Hotel.
Speaker 1: It was a famous music venue until two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: when an earthquake damaged it. Later it was converted into
Speaker 1: affordable apartments and artists studios. When I moved to Seattle,
Speaker 1: I made so little money I qualified to live there.
Speaker 1: My ex and I signed a lease, then broke up,
Speaker 1: but stayed for a bit. The day after we broke up,
Speaker 1: my brain was a cauldron of depression, anxiety, and cabin fever.
Speaker 1: Outside lay a perfect summer day, sunny, low seventies, A
Speaker 1: breeze blew in off Puget Sound. I decided to walk
Speaker 1: across the city to Kurt Cobain's house. This is where
Speaker 1: he died by suicide in April nineteen ninety four. As
Speaker 1: a kid, even now I related relate to Cobain. He
Speaker 1: wasn't my generation, but what does it matter. I love
Speaker 1: his music. I loved the idea of him more a
Speaker 1: loner with mental health issues, dedicated to art who stood
Speaker 1: up for the downtrodden, troubled but gentle, empathetic kind, the
Speaker 1: nineties icon who said I feel your pain and meant it,
Speaker 1: and we felt his. When someone like that made they
Speaker 1: make everyone like them feel less alone. Living in Seattle,
Speaker 1: I'd often pass bits of Nirvana history, the bar Cobain
Speaker 1: might have visited right before he died, Linda's tavern, the
Speaker 1: motel where he used to shoot up heroin, the Marco Polo.
Speaker 1: I didn't even have to leave my building to see
Speaker 1: a bit of his history. The Okay Hotel is where
Speaker 1: Nirvana premiered smells like teen Spirit in April nineteen ninety one.
Speaker 1: Twenty years later, when I moved in, the stage was gone,
Speaker 1: but I figured out where it stood in what became
Speaker 1: my building's trash room. This bit of music history was
Speaker 1: where I dumped my garbage. Honestly, I think Kurt would approve.
Speaker 1: My ex moved out. I made friends and went to
Speaker 1: concerts and games and art shows and clubs. Back home alone,
Speaker 1: I'd take out the trash down an elevator to this
Speaker 1: little room where a stage once stood, where an artist
Speaker 1: once stood, I'd pause. We can never hold the anarchy
Speaker 1: of change, that permanent impermanence, in anything but a brief abeyance.
Speaker 1: With all our might. The best we can do is
Speaker 1: slow it down, watch it approach frame by frame. Often
Speaker 1: we can't even do that. It speeds toward us, a
Speaker 1: towering tsunami of shadows that will consume us, a menacing
Speaker 1: specter that never lets us forget who's in control. Sometimes
Speaker 1: it's unpredictably benevolent. Often it's not. It can demonstrate bipolarity
Speaker 1: in the extreme rewarding us with riches material and immaterial,
Speaker 1: and torturing us at the same time. That's how a
Speaker 1: little boy from Aberdeen, Washington grows into a global icon,
Speaker 1: all the world his stage, while simultaneously dealing with addiction
Speaker 1: and depression and dying at the end of a needle
Speaker 1: and a gun. That's how a little boy in Arizona
Speaker 1: grows into a man of more modest success a wife,
Speaker 1: two kids, a house, a job at the Mayo Clinic
Speaker 1: Hospital in Phoenix, while simultaneously fighting his demons. The story
Speaker 1: of Kurt Cobain is one of a man who's pain
Speaker 1: never stamped out his humanity. The story of Robert Fisher
Speaker 1: is one of a man who's pain crystallized into a
Speaker 1: brutal act of violence. One self immolated, one immolated others.
Speaker 1: What separates you, I hope, from both of them is
Speaker 1: how you handle change. Isn't this what divides our society?
Speaker 1: How we handle change. Those of us who have seen
Speaker 1: the glory wanta martin reverse. Those of us who never
Speaker 1: reached it want to push forward. One side looks in
Speaker 1: a mirror and seeks to restore an unrestorable stasis. The
Speaker 1: other punches a hole in that mirror and claws forward
Speaker 1: through glass. We play an interminable game of tug of war,
Speaker 1: forcing change, reacting to it. This is the fault line
Speaker 1: of our times. At this pivot point in history, the
Speaker 1: forces of progress and the forces of reaction are engaged
Speaker 1: in a ferocious battle. Islam speaks of two jihads. You
Speaker 1: likely know one of them an external war, not the
Speaker 1: other an internal war. A siren calls out to your demons.
Speaker 1: Ask yourself, who's in control you? The demons? The story
Speaker 1: of Kurt Cobain is one of spiraling decline. The story
Speaker 1: of Robert Fisher is one of spiraling decline. The story
Speaker 1: of America I Fear is one of spiraling decline. Kurt
Speaker 1: died by suicide. Robert killed his wife and kids, burned
Speaker 1: down their house, and fled. In the end, who was
Speaker 1: in control Kurt or his demons? Robert or his demons?
Speaker 1: Is suicide or murder? A final exercise of control, of
Speaker 1: agency or the loss of it? Do you die by
Speaker 1: suicide or commit it? Who's in control now you or
Speaker 1: your demons? America's better angels or the demons of decline?
Speaker 1: From iHeartRadio and Neon thirty three, I'm John Walzac and
Speaker 1: This is Missing in Arizona, the story of a man
Speaker 1: who disappeared after allegedly killing his wife and kids, blowing
Speaker 1: up their bourbon home, and escaping into the wilderness. Twenty
Speaker 1: three years later, I'm hunting Robert Fisher, and I need
Speaker 1: your helping. The Fall of the House of Fisher begins
Speaker 1: in January nineteen eighty five in Barrego Springs, California, a
Speaker 1: tiny arid town between San Diego and the Salton Sea.
Speaker 1: After three years in the Navy, Robert gets a job
Speaker 1: here as a firefighter and emt. He and Mary get
Speaker 1: married in Arizona in November nineteen eighty four. She follows
Speaker 1: him back to California. The seed of their demise, the
Speaker 1: first flap of the butterflies Wings, arises only two months
Speaker 1: later January nineteen eighty five. Ronald Reagan has sworn in
Speaker 1: for a second term. Michael Jackson, Cindy Lauper, and others
Speaker 1: record We Are the World. In Brego Springs, Mary Fisher,
Speaker 1: twenty two, settles into married life. The honeymoon phase begins.
Speaker 1: Robert is a hero in her eyes and his A
Speaker 1: lean twenty three year old with brownish blonde hair, and
Speaker 1: blue eyes a firefighter. The honeymoon phase ends. Robert got
Speaker 1: what he wanted Mary, and then a friend tells me
Speaker 1: the costume came off. Isolated in rural California, Robert tightens
Speaker 1: his grip. He owns Mary. She's his wife. He's in control.
Speaker 1: Control is everything for Robert. It's how he shows the
Speaker 1: world himself that he's a man. It's how he deals
Speaker 1: with the anarchy outside. He can't control the world, fine,
Speaker 1: he can control his wife. He can build a domestic
Speaker 1: castle in which he alone is king. Yet even the
Speaker 1: best constructed castle has weak points. In January nineteen eighty five,
Speaker 1: the anarchy breaks in. This is when Robert injures his
Speaker 1: back on the job, a seed of chaos that will
Speaker 1: destroy him. He responds to a car accident. Someone flipped
Speaker 1: their car and rolled down a hill. Robert climbs down
Speaker 1: and pulls the victim out of the wreckage. He carries
Speaker 1: them up to the road, and in the process, he
Speaker 1: blows out multiple discs in his back. This dramatically affects
Speaker 1: his future. He needs spinal surgery. He can no longer
Speaker 1: do the job he loves. He reaches a settlement with
Speaker 1: the fire department medical retirement or workers comp or something
Speaker 1: so here. He is twenty three back injury, chronic pain,
Speaker 1: limited job options. He and Mary decide to return to Arizona,
Speaker 1: first Phoenix, then Scottsdale. Robert attends community college in nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty seven. He starts a new career as a respiratory therapist.
Speaker 1: He still gets to be a hero, kind of just
Speaker 1: standing at a hospital instead of racing into fires. He
Speaker 1: and Mary move into twenty two to twenty three north
Speaker 1: seventy fourth place in Scottsdale in January nineteen eighty eight,
Speaker 1: Newcastle fresh start. That April, Mary gives birth to their
Speaker 1: first child, Brittany, and in September nineteen ninety their second, Bobby.
Speaker 1: The late eighties and early nineties speedby with only one
Speaker 1: notable incident. Robert shoots a dog May eleventh, nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 1: This account is based on police reports, interviews with neighbors,
Speaker 1: and details from the Arizona Republic. Around three PM, as
Speaker 1: Robert leaves for work, he sees a stray pit bull.
Speaker 1: It's beefy seventy pounds of muscle and growling. Robert's dog, Ruger,
Speaker 1: a black lab, runs to it. The pit bull strikes.
Speaker 1: The dogs fight. Robert runs inside, grabs a pistol and
Speaker 1: shoots the pit bull, which staggers off, leaving a trail
Speaker 1: of blood. Police and animal control show up. Robert says
Speaker 1: he has no regrets. The pit bull was killing Ruger
Speaker 1: and it was an imminent danger not only to kids
Speaker 1: on the street, but also kids at a nearby school
Speaker 1: about to let out for the day. Police and media
Speaker 1: later used this incident to paint Robert as a dog
Speaker 1: shooting psycho. In June two thousand and one, after the murders,
Speaker 1: police say Robert orchestrated the dog fight so he could
Speaker 1: shoot the pit bull, but that's not accurate or fair.
Speaker 1: One neighbor sees the pit bull, pulls his kids inside
Speaker 1: and calls nine one one before the shooting. Another Paul
Speaker 1: is home at the time, asleep. The commotion wakes him up.
Speaker 1: He goes outside ask Bob, what the heck's going on here?
Speaker 2: I mean it was self defense because that pitbull shreds
Speaker 2: his dog.
Speaker 1: The pit bull menaced the neighborhood for weeks. Combing through
Speaker 1: Fisher family videos, I find this clip from April twenty ninth,
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine, fifteen days before the shooting. Listen closely,
Speaker 1: like Robert, what does the pit bull look like? A
Speaker 1: little bit like a box of a little bit like
Speaker 1: a boxer, but thinner face dog. I'm scared to death
Speaker 1: of that dog, So I think we can safely say
Speaker 1: the pit bull was a credible threat. This is a
Speaker 1: great example of how a fact can be used to
Speaker 1: paint a misleading portrait. Which of the following is true
Speaker 1: man shoots pitbull to protect his dog and local children
Speaker 1: or unhinged maniac shoots dog. In December nineteen eighty nine,
Speaker 1: Hollywood releases a movie called Cha Devil forty eight percent
Speaker 1: on Rotten Tomatoes. Meryl Street plays Wait for It. Mary Fisher,
Speaker 1: a romance novelist who runs off with a guy named Bob.
Speaker 1: Roseanne Barr plays Bob's wife, Ruth. Ruth seeks revenge. Using
Speaker 1: gas as an accelerant, she blows up Bob's house in
Speaker 1: a massive explosion. I found this by accident while searching
Speaker 1: for an article on the pit bull shooting. I didn't
Speaker 1: understand at first why there were so many results for
Speaker 1: Mary Fisher and nineteen eighty nine. She Devil is about
Speaker 1: a woman who loses control and chooses to deal with
Speaker 1: it in a black comedy deranged way, I imagine, and
Speaker 1: it was cathartic for women to see violent retribution play
Speaker 1: out with the classic roles reversed. There's a bubbling anger
Speaker 1: out there, women beaten down literally and metaphorically, who just
Speaker 1: aren't gonna take it anymore. I once worked as an
Speaker 1: editor for Microsoft. I saw in real time which topics
Speaker 1: had max clickbait potential puppies, celebrities, sex, and wives killing
Speaker 1: their husbands. I put up something about a Pakistani woman
Speaker 1: who killed her husband and cooked him in a pot.
Speaker 1: She claimed he tried to molest their daughter. Headline wife
Speaker 1: cook's husband. My bosses were pissed, fair enough. Not a
Speaker 1: judgment call I would make today, but it did numbers anyway.
Speaker 1: The nineties the end of History, smash Mouth, Blockbuster, OJ,
Speaker 1: You've Got Mail. As the nineties progress, Robert Fisher's back
Speaker 1: pain worsens. In nineteen ninety nine, on the eve of
Speaker 1: Y two K, he sees a masseuse. At the time,
Speaker 1: the Phoenix Metro has a ton of massage parlors that
Speaker 1: are in fact front for prostitution. In April nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 1: scott Steel police raid a parlor five minutes from the
Speaker 1: Fisher house. In November nineteen ninety nine, Masa police conduct
Speaker 1: a sting in which officers allow sex workers to touch
Speaker 1: their genitals. According to the Arizona Republic. In April two thousand,
Speaker 1: scott Steel police raid another parlor ten minutes from the
Speaker 1: Fisher House. It's unclear Robert knows he'll be offered sex. Nonetheless,
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety nine, he and a masseuse have a
Speaker 1: sexual encounter at a hotel five minutes from the Fisher house.
Speaker 1: This is a pivotal moment in his demise. The House
Speaker 1: of Fisher falls faster now. We previously reported that Robert
Speaker 1: may have had an affair with a co worker in
Speaker 1: the mid nineties. Even if true, Mary never finds out
Speaker 1: about it. She does find out about this one though.
Speaker 1: In August nineteen ninety nine, Robert writes her a letter confessing.
Speaker 1: He expresses remorse and says he understands if she wants
Speaker 1: to separate. He tells her he's leaving for thirty days,
Speaker 1: retreating to a cabin.
Speaker 3: In the woods.
Speaker 1: He can that if she does want to break up,
Speaker 1: he's going to commit suicide. This is about fidelity, not sex.
Speaker 1: But sex has been problematic for the Fishers. Robert wants
Speaker 1: it every single day. Mary doesn't. I could see at eighteen,
Speaker 1: but at forty, her friend tells police, who wants to
Speaker 1: have sex every day? Robert just wants to prove that
Speaker 1: he can. Mary says. Mary doesn't enjoy it, quote dishes laundry. Sex.
Speaker 1: But it's not a big deal, she says, quote just
Speaker 1: ky jelly and five minutes. She wants to be a
Speaker 1: good wife. Sex is quote a small price to pay.
Speaker 1: Robert has always felt insecure and inadequate. He tells a
Speaker 1: friend he married up. He's trying to prove he's a man,
Speaker 1: but he can't please his wife. Sex with Robert is
Speaker 1: a five minute chore. Robert needs to prove he's a man, though,
Speaker 1: He takes supplements to boost his testosterone. According to his
Speaker 1: friend Jim Rodin.
Speaker 3: Whether it was the creatine or whatever supplement, he goes,
Speaker 3: you know, just gives you that boost a testosterone to
Speaker 3: piss you law to push the bar up one more frickin' time.
Speaker 3: So he had that kind of whoah, tough guy that
Speaker 3: he loved, loved to foster in him.
Speaker 1: Another friend, Ken tells police that Robert has a quote
Speaker 1: sexual problem a wandering eye. A third says Robert struggled
Speaker 1: with porn during his navy days. Temptation in nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 1: if not earlier. Robert succumbs. He confesses that infidelity to
Speaker 1: Mary and takes time off work. He drives to a
Speaker 1: cabin on Hawley Lake, four hours away, and he waits
Speaker 1: for Mary to reach out to him. Instead, she ignores him.
Speaker 1: This is not going to plan. He's not in control.
Speaker 1: He calls her, asking her to come up to the lake.
Speaker 1: She consults his friend Ken, a pastor. Fearing for her safety,
Speaker 1: Ken advises her not to go. Mary stays in Scottsdale.
Speaker 1: Three days later, Robert comes home. He apologizes, He buys
Speaker 1: her a ring. He seems to feel genuine remorse, but
Speaker 1: he's also practical. He knows he's on the edge of divorce,
Speaker 1: so he seeks help from friends, from God.
Speaker 3: He felt terrible. Jim Rodin felt dirty, felt condemned his
Speaker 3: childhood faith and the conscience that it developed. He knew
Speaker 3: that he was dirty and caught. He knew that it
Speaker 3: could cost him his marriage. He knew that it could
Speaker 3: severely damage his children.
Speaker 1: What follows is a false spring Robert attends to hers
Speaker 1: religiously and participates weekly in immen's ministry. For the first time,
Speaker 1: Mary sees this stubborn man make an effort to change himself,
Speaker 1: not her or the world.
Speaker 3: There was a season there where Mary was thankful and
Speaker 3: stunned at the quality of person she saw he could be,
Speaker 3: And for about a year the marriage began to thrive.
Speaker 3: Robert was even reading the scriptures to his kids. Somewhere
Speaker 3: in there, something changed. He started to drift again.
Speaker 1: By October two thousand, six months before the murders, a
Speaker 1: switch flips. Everyone notices a shift in Robert's behavior. Holl's
Speaker 1: a coworker that he's in pain. His back is hurting again,
Speaker 1: making matters worse. In November nineteen ninety nine, he also
Speaker 1: injured his knee while playing football in a park. Robert
Speaker 1: quote Tor Stuff, a friend says October two thousand, Robert
Speaker 1: William Fisher, aged thirty nine, in pain. But nothing can
Speaker 1: control him, damn it, not even his health. He goes hunting.
Speaker 1: On the way he spots an elk on the side
Speaker 1: of the road. He gets out and shoots it. He
Speaker 1: guts it and tries to load it into the bed
Speaker 1: of his truck, but he can't. His pain is in control,
Speaker 1: not him. Mary confides to friends, including Mary Beth Rodin,
Speaker 1: that she's scared and so is Robert, because.
Speaker 4: He was facing potential surgery for his back.
Speaker 1: This terrifies Robert. He's worried surgery will paralyze him, and
Speaker 1: he knows a paralyzed life is a difficult life. His
Speaker 1: close friend, a neighbor, was paralyzed in a freak accident.
Speaker 1: One day, Robert sees this man fall out of a chair.
Speaker 1: He has to help the man's son lift him on up.
Speaker 1: He later says, quote, it was like deadlifting four hundred pounds.
Speaker 1: So what should Robert do? He's in pain, but he's
Speaker 1: petrified of surgery, of paralysis, career ending disability, total loss
Speaker 1: of control. He starts to withdraw from church, friends, the gym.
Speaker 1: In December two thousand, he stops working out. He's constantly
Speaker 1: popping pills, percocet, Perkidan, ballium. He seems to be addicted.
Speaker 1: Friends later question whether or not his pill habit affects
Speaker 1: his mental state. In the lead up to the murders,
Speaker 1: let me pause for a second and talk about pain.
Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen, I had two failed root canals that
Speaker 1: left me in pain for months, facial pain, nerve pain.
Speaker 1: I lost feeling in part of my tongue, It affected
Speaker 1: my speech. No doctor would help me. They all thought
Speaker 1: I wanted pills, which I didn't. I remember sitting at
Speaker 1: home watching daytime TV. Is there anything more depressing? So
Speaker 1: many pain commercials, all targeting people like me. Nothing instills
Speaker 1: a greater appreciation for a normal, boring life than an
Speaker 1: extended period of pain. Thankfully, I found an amazing dentist
Speaker 1: and a talented oral surgeon. I got better. But what
Speaker 1: about the people who don't, The people with unsolvable pain,
Speaker 1: Kurt Cobain and his stomach, Robert Fischer and his back.
Speaker 1: We can't just tell them to avoid drugs and suffer. Thankfully,
Speaker 1: we seem to be at the dawn of a new
Speaker 1: golden age of medicine, driven in part by AI. In January,
Speaker 1: a Boston company announced an experimental drug VX five four
Speaker 1: eight that appears highly effective in relieving certain types of
Speaker 1: acute pain. Scientists are also developing stem cell treatments and
Speaker 1: experimental nerve stimulation devices. It's alluring to consider the impact
Speaker 1: this kind of innovation might have on society. Maybe somewhere soon,
Speaker 1: a musician with stomach pain chooses to live a father
Speaker 1: with back pain doesn't spiral into murder. If you like
Speaker 1: this show, please download our first two seasons, Missing in
Speaker 1: Alaska and Missing on nine to eleven. For updates, visit
Speaker 1: neon thirty three dot com or follow me on Twitter
Speaker 1: at John Waalzac jo N wal Czak. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: December two thousand, Robert gets sick with what he says
Speaker 1: is either a urinary tract infection UTI or prostatitis. Police
Speaker 1: later speculate that he actually caught a sexually transmitted infection
Speaker 1: or STI, which would indicate he cheated on Mary again,
Speaker 1: which would likely lead her to divorce him. January two
Speaker 1: thousand and one. Mary complains to Robert that he's letting
Speaker 1: himself go. His muscle tone is down. Maybe this seems
Speaker 1: mean given his back pain, but not when you consider
Speaker 1: how he treats Mary, dictating how many slices of pizza
Speaker 1: she can have, locking her out of the house, forcing
Speaker 1: her to walk because he doesn't want a fat wife.
Speaker 1: In that context, I say to Mary, good for you.
Speaker 1: It's an example of Mary's standing up for herself. January twentieth.
Speaker 1: George W. Bush is inaugurated president. January twenty seventh. Robert
Speaker 1: pawns an expensive nine millimeter handgun for a lesser quality
Speaker 1: thirty eight. This is the thirty eight that'll disappear after
Speaker 1: the murders. Do me a favor if you own one.
Speaker 1: Check the serial number. We're looking for a snubnose five
Speaker 1: shot thirty eight serial number CEC four nine two four
Speaker 1: CEC four nine two four. February two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: Mary's friend who doesn't want to be named, visits and
Speaker 1: stays with the Fishers. She sees Robert popping pills and
Speaker 1: tells him he needs to schedule back surgery. He says
Speaker 1: he's scared that if he he does, he'll end up paralyzed.
Speaker 1: February fifteenth, Robert speaks to his dad for the final time.
Speaker 1: Late February or early March, Robert visits Don's Sports Shop
Speaker 1: in Scottsdale, a storewear Over the years, he's purchased rifles, ammo,
Speaker 1: and camping gear. It's unclear what he buys today, if anything.
Speaker 1: March two thousand and one, Robert and his friend Ashley's arsty,
Speaker 1: their spouses and their kids spend a weekend together at
Speaker 1: a cabin near Whispering Pines, ninety miles north of Scottsdale.
Speaker 1: Robert drinks bourbon, chews tobacco, and teaches Ashley's young son
Speaker 1: how to fish. He and Mary seem normal. However, not
Speaker 1: long after the trip, Ashley hears a rumor that Robert
Speaker 1: isn't coming home. Some nights sometime in March, Robert attends
Speaker 1: a parent teacher conference at Suppie Middle School with Miss Honey,
Speaker 1: Britney's social studies and math teacher. Mary doesn't attend.
Speaker 5: So we were on the ESL block English as a
Speaker 5: Second Language. We had multi lingual students, Spanish. I had
Speaker 5: a rocky student and during that parentidge conference I was
Speaker 5: talking to him and I was explaining her grades in
Speaker 5: my class and what we were doing. And then he said,
Speaker 5: why is she in these classes with these immigrants or
Speaker 5: these Mexicans? And I said, this is the English as
Speaker 5: a Second Language blob, why is she there. I don't
Speaker 5: want her. I want her moved, I want her way
Speaker 5: from those And I remember being very off put by that.
Speaker 1: Miss Honey is later the second to last person to
Speaker 1: see and speak with Robert, hours before the murders March fifth,
Speaker 1: a fifteen year old gunman shoots and kills two classmates
Speaker 1: and injures eleven others plus two staffers at Santana High
Speaker 1: School in Sante, California. March tenth, one month until the murders,
Speaker 1: Bobby Junior participates in the Iwana Olympics, a Christian sporting event,
Speaker 1: with friends including Brock Anderson. Brock sends me a photo
Speaker 1: of him, Bobby, and eleven other boys standing in a
Speaker 1: group in red T shirts wearing medals. Some make funny faces,
Speaker 1: some look away. Bobby stares directly at the camera. March fourteenth,
Speaker 1: Robert Phil's prescriptions for perkindan an opioid painkiller, diazepam, an
Speaker 1: anxiety medication, Celebrex, an anti inflammatory drug, and cyclo benzaprene,
Speaker 1: a muscle relaxant. Sometime mid to late March, Mary's friend
Speaker 1: Kim Davidson stops by the Fisher House unannounced.
Speaker 2: I was off work for some reason, so I decided
Speaker 2: to just go pop in and visit her. At first,
Speaker 2: I went by the Bible study that we would have
Speaker 2: been at had I not been working, and everyone said
Speaker 2: she didn't show up that day, which is very unusual
Speaker 2: because she was always there, and so I ran over
Speaker 2: to by her house see if she was sick or something.
Speaker 2: She answered the door and was almost nervous. She didn't
Speaker 2: invite me in, which was very unusual. She just kind
Speaker 2: of stood and bought the door. And then she said
Speaker 2: that she'd hurt her hand, and Robert wanted her to
Speaker 2: go to the emergency room to get a look tickn
Speaker 2: at it. I don't even know if he was home
Speaker 2: at the time. So I said, do you want me
Speaker 2: to drive you there, because you've got your hand, I'll drive.
Speaker 2: She says, no, no, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. And
Speaker 2: that was the last time I saw her.
Speaker 1: Do you remember any other time that you stopped by
Speaker 1: her house that she did not invite you in? Never
Speaker 1: did you see her hand injury.
Speaker 2: I vaguely remember it, but not really. I know she
Speaker 2: was holding her hand.
Speaker 1: There's no way to tell for sure how Mary injured
Speaker 1: her hand, but it's hard to listen to Kim's account
Speaker 1: and not suspect it was during a fight with Robert,
Speaker 1: which would indicate a rapid deterioration in their relationship. No
Speaker 1: one I or the police interviewed, no matter how much
Speaker 1: they hated Robert reported seeing any sign of physical abuse
Speaker 1: on Mary or the kids. Ever, no weird cuts or
Speaker 1: bruises or anything. Mary was proud and private. She could
Speaker 1: have hidden it, but she confided other embarrassing things to
Speaker 1: family and friends, like Robert's fling with the masseuse. She
Speaker 1: never told anyone that he was physically violent standing in
Speaker 1: Mary's doorway. Kim knows something's wrong.
Speaker 2: More than the hand. It was her demeanor. Now that
Speaker 2: I think back, it could have been fear that I
Speaker 2: was sensing from her. But I even went home after
Speaker 2: that and told my husband, I said, I don't know
Speaker 2: what's going on with Mary. I thought, well, maybe she's
Speaker 2: mad at me about something, just because of the way
Speaker 2: she reacted.
Speaker 1: Sometime in mid to late March, Robert stops by Mary's
Speaker 1: office unannounced, which is out of the norm. According to
Speaker 1: Mary's boss and friend, Lori Greenbeck, It's part of a
Speaker 1: pattern Lourie notices leading up to the murders.
Speaker 6: So he had to take some time off work because
Speaker 6: he had some kind of kidney infection or utah or something.
Speaker 6: And I could tell he was in trouble with Mary
Speaker 6: because he had bought a truck that she didn't know
Speaker 6: anything about. He just came to the office and wanted
Speaker 6: to show her this truck.
Speaker 1: Later, Robert shows up again on foot.
Speaker 6: So our office was right off a green belt between
Speaker 6: where we lived and where they lived, and so he
Speaker 6: had walked up with the kids to ride.
Speaker 4: Home with Mary. And so that was just something he
Speaker 4: would never do.
Speaker 1: Being a chauvinistic Robert is king, and when you're king,
Speaker 1: you don't go to your wife. She comes to you.
Speaker 1: Obedient wife, obedient children.
Speaker 6: He was very controlling of their whole family, not just Mary,
Speaker 6: but the kids. Like he wouldn't let Britney sell Girl
Speaker 6: Scout cookies, even though Mary was the Girl Scout cookie mom.
Speaker 6: But Britney was not allowed to sell Girl Scout Why
Speaker 6: you know, Oh, he just thought it looked like begging.
Speaker 1: Late March, three weeks until the murders, Robert speaks for
Speaker 1: the final time with his younger sister Jean. He tells
Speaker 1: her he bought a new truck. He says his back
Speaker 1: pain is quote bearable. At work, Robert appears stressed and paranoid,
Speaker 1: quiet and serious, withdrawn He ruminates about how life would
Speaker 1: have been different if his parents didn't divorce when he
Speaker 1: was a kid. March twenty second, Robert calls a friend
Speaker 1: in San Diego to check on his wife, a teacher
Speaker 1: at Santana High School, where the shooting took place two
Speaker 1: weeks ago. It's one of two connections Robert has to
Speaker 1: the school. He has another friend who works there too,
Speaker 1: a baseball coach named Bob. One of Robert's friends knew
Speaker 1: the shooter. The other knew one of the kids killed.
Speaker 1: Robert tells a coworker that the shooter was bullied repeatedly
Speaker 1: quote you know how long can a kid go on
Speaker 1: being bullied like that? Inspired by the shooting, the band
Speaker 1: Pod will later release the number one song Youth of
Speaker 1: the Nation. Friday, March thirtieth, eleven days until the murders.
Speaker 1: Robert and Mary have the day off. They load Robert's
Speaker 1: quad an ATV into the back of his truck and
Speaker 1: head into the wilderness. Three people, Mary's dad, a friend,
Speaker 1: and a neighbor later tell police about the trip. The
Speaker 1: friend doesn't know where Robert and Mary go. The dad
Speaker 1: says they go into the desert. The neighbor says they
Speaker 1: go up in the mountains near young When Bobby gets
Speaker 1: home from school, Robert and Mary are still out. They
Speaker 1: spend the entire day together, and by Mary's account, they
Speaker 1: have a good time. This is important for two reasons. First,
Speaker 1: it shows that Robert and Mary are on at least
Speaker 1: somewhat good terms today, eleven days before the murders. Second,
Speaker 1: if they are near young, they're not far from where
Speaker 1: police later find Mary's SUV. Saturday, March thirty, first, ten
Speaker 1: days until the murders, Robert and Mary attend a wedding
Speaker 1: in Sedona, two hours north of Scottsdale. When I learn
Speaker 1: about this, alarm bells go off in a good way.
Speaker 1: The most recent photo I have of Robert is from
Speaker 1: December nineteen ninety nine. I don't have any of him
Speaker 1: taken after that. Neither do the police. If Robert and
Speaker 1: Mary attend a wedding, they're likely caught on film by
Speaker 1: a professional photographer only ten days before the murders. The
Speaker 1: problem is I know nothing except that they attend a
Speaker 1: friend's wedding in Sedona on March thirty first, two thousand
Speaker 1: and one. That's it, not a lot to work with.
Speaker 1: I spend months trying to figure out whose wedding no
Speaker 1: one knows. Then I hear back from one of Mary's
Speaker 1: friends who finally tells me the name of the bride
Speaker 1: and groom, Colleen called Kalb and Dave Strutt. I reach
Speaker 1: out to Dave and Colleen separately. They're no longer married.
Speaker 1: To my surprise, Dave calls back quickly. Yes, they did
Speaker 1: have photos of Robert and Mary at the wedding. He
Speaker 1: thinks they're in storage for months. We text. He goes
Speaker 1: to the storage unit. He can't find any photos of
Speaker 1: the wedding none. He doesn't know what happened to them.
Speaker 1: I hear back from Colleen indirectly through her sister, who
Speaker 1: tells me Colleen lost her wedding photos in some kind
Speaker 1: of storage mishap. The sister has a few photos, but
Speaker 1: none of the fishers. No one knows the name of
Speaker 1: the wedding photographer, and no one remembers the name of
Speaker 1: the venue. So, my beloved audience, I'm throwing you a
Speaker 1: hail Mary. Did you attend the wedding? Did you photograph it?
Speaker 1: If so, please contact us. At the wedding, Robert and
Speaker 1: Mary appear to get along. They seem fine when it ends.
Speaker 1: They drive to the town of Prescott, pr E Scott
Speaker 1: to visit Robert's mom, Jan They stay the night at
Speaker 1: someone's house, probably Jans Sunday, April first, first nine days
Speaker 1: until the murders. Before heading home to Scottsdale, Robert and
Speaker 1: Mary drive north from Prescott. To Mary's surprise, Robert makes
Speaker 1: an unexpected stop at a quote survivalist compound. This has
Speaker 1: never been reported until now. Mary later tells her friend
Speaker 1: Mary Beth Rodin about it.
Speaker 4: I remember Mary coming over and saying, yeah, the wedding
Speaker 4: was awesome, but Robert had to go to this dumb
Speaker 4: survivalist place.
Speaker 1: In the town of Paulden, population forty five hundred, thirty
Speaker 1: five minutes north of Prescott, the wrong direction from Scottsdale,
Speaker 1: adding at least an hour and ten minutes to the
Speaker 1: trip home.
Speaker 4: He'd made the trip to go talk to these survivalist
Speaker 4: people in Paulden about something.
Speaker 1: When they get to the compound, Robert tells Mary to
Speaker 1: wait in the car. He's gone for an hour. She
Speaker 1: doesn't know what he's doing. When he returns, they drive
Speaker 1: back to Scottsdale. Who did Robert know in Paulden? What
Speaker 1: was he doing at a survivalist compound and why did
Speaker 1: he make Mary wait in the car for an hour?
Speaker 1: I don't know, but i'd like to time. The week
Speaker 1: before the murders, Brittany competes in a Pinewood Derby competition
Speaker 1: in which kids raise small wooden cars. At church, her
Speaker 1: car breaks down. She's eliminated. A pastor says she disabled
Speaker 1: her car on purpose because she didn't want to beat
Speaker 1: a younger kid. Teachers notice that Brittany's not herself. She
Speaker 1: seems depressed. She quits the track team separately. Robert and
Speaker 1: Bobby played basketball in a neighbor's driveway. Robert asks the
Speaker 1: neighbor what it feels like to kill someone. He seems upset.
Speaker 1: Robert visits another neighbor, his paralyzed friend. They watched the
Speaker 1: TV show Eco Challenge, which features a segment on water purification.
Speaker 1: Robert expresses interest in learning how to purify water. Wednesday,
Speaker 1: April fourth, six days until the murders, Robert unexpectedly shows
Speaker 1: up at church looking for Mary and the kids.
Speaker 2: Mary got really like almost.
Speaker 1: Scared once again. Kim Davidson.
Speaker 2: She went to find her children, and she was very
Speaker 2: upset that he was there. So it was like something
Speaker 2: had happened and she didn't want to see him.
Speaker 1: Kim isn't there, but her friend Donna is. Neither of
Speaker 1: them has ever seen this before. Mary fearful of Robert.
Speaker 1: For years, Robert liked how involved Mary was with their church.
Speaker 1: He liked knowing where she was and who she was with.
Speaker 1: It was easier to control her. A friend says, now
Speaker 1: he realizes that maybe Mary's too independent. She has her
Speaker 1: own job, her own social life. He tells a coworker
Speaker 1: he's worried Mary is quote spending a lot of time
Speaker 1: at church with a pastor. He feels quote that the
Speaker 1: pastor is too involved in the family's life. He doesn't
Speaker 1: name the pastor. It's extremely unlikely that Robert thinks Mary's
Speaker 1: having an affair. This is about control. Anyone with influence
Speaker 1: over his family, even a pastor, is a threat. Thursday,
Speaker 1: April fifth or Friday April sixth, Robert tells a coworker
Speaker 1: that he had the previous week off. He says he
Speaker 1: and Mary spent a day on his ATV somewhere in
Speaker 1: or near Roosevelt, a rugged area next to a huge lake,
Speaker 1: ninety minutes away between Scottsdale and Young Friday April sixth,
Speaker 1: four days until the murders. Seven to ten pm, Mary
Speaker 1: stops at a gas station fills up. Her fore runner
Speaker 1: pulls seventy five dollars from an atm. April sixth or seventh,
Speaker 1: Robert shops for attic insulation. He speaks to his mother
Speaker 1: for the final time. Brittany attends a sleepover. She allegedly
Speaker 1: says that when she dies, she wants to die in
Speaker 1: her sleep. Saturday, April seventh, three days until the murders,
Speaker 1: Robert tells a friend he's working overtime to pay off
Speaker 1: his new truck. The Fissures are in good financial shape.
Speaker 1: They're set to pay off their mortgage early. Mary's forerunner
Speaker 1: is paid off. They have savings. Robert heads to Checker Auto,
Speaker 1: a nearby store. I visit the building in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1: After it was Checker, it turned into an O'Reilly auto
Speaker 1: parts store, and now it's empty. I'm pressing my face
Speaker 1: up against the glass and it's just filthy.
Speaker 3: Thirty their leaves.
Speaker 1: He's a duct tape, an old sign. Looks like it's
Speaker 1: been empty for a while. April seventh, two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: ten oh four am, Robert buys motor oil filters and
Speaker 1: a five gallon drain pan. He's caught on security footage.
Speaker 1: I try to obtain it. The police still haven't given
Speaker 1: it to me. I try to interview the cashier, but
Speaker 1: she died. In twenty fourteen. Her death made national news.
Speaker 1: Her four year old autistic son lived alone with her
Speaker 1: body for four days until help arrived. April seventh, two
Speaker 1: thousand and one, Robert changes the oil on his truck,
Speaker 1: his quad, and Mary's fore runner. That night, he and
Speaker 1: Mary go to a movie with Mary's sister and her husband.
Speaker 1: Robert and Mary are in quote very good spirits and
Speaker 1: appear to be getting along. They're home by ten pm Sunday,
Speaker 1: April eighth, two days until the murders. Ten thirty am, Robert,
Speaker 1: Mary and the kids attend church. Robert tells a friend
Speaker 1: that he's in quite a bit of pain. His back hurts.
Speaker 1: He says he's taking valley. The friend says that's not good.
Speaker 1: Robert responds, I'm controlling it. I'm keeping it under control.
Speaker 1: One PM, Mary's mom, Jinny Cooper, has lunch with Mary
Speaker 1: and the kids at Sweet Tomatoes, a soup and salad restaurant.
Speaker 1: Robert doesn't attend. Ginny says this is normal. Robert quote
Speaker 1: pretty much stays away from the family police ask why.
Speaker 1: She says Robert has a fear of getting close to
Speaker 1: people and losing them. Three p forty six pm, Mary
Speaker 1: signs a check at Costco. In the evening, she's back
Speaker 1: at church. The Sopranos episode's second opinion airs on HBO.
Speaker 1: It'll Win, Edie Falco and Emmy April ninth. The final
Speaker 1: day late April ninth or early April tenth, The murders
Speaker 1: April tenth. The house explodes, So what to make of
Speaker 1: all this? By April two thousand and one, Robert's behavior
Speaker 1: has been different for about six months. He's in pain,
Speaker 1: popping pills, needs surgery, but is terrified it'll pair. After
Speaker 1: cheating on Mary, he works hard to be a better
Speaker 1: man until about October two thousand. Then he starts to
Speaker 1: withdraw from church, friends, the gym. He seems stressed and paranoid.
Speaker 1: In December two thousand, he gets sick with what he
Speaker 1: claims is a UTI, but it might actually be an STI.
Speaker 1: Rumors fly that Robert had an affair and that Mary
Speaker 1: wants a divorce. In mid to late March, Kim Davidson
Speaker 1: drops by the Fisher House. Mary answers the door, her
Speaker 1: hand is injured. She acts weird. Kim offers to drive
Speaker 1: her to get help. Mary says no. On March thirtieth,
Speaker 1: eleven days before the murders, Robert and Mary spend the
Speaker 1: day on Robert's ATV. They seem fine. On March thirty, first,
Speaker 1: they attend a wedding. Again, they seem fine, but something changes.
Speaker 1: By April fourth, Robert shows up at church looking for
Speaker 1: Mary and the kids. Mary appears afraid of him. Britney
Speaker 1: appears depressed. She quits to tract him. She allegedly says
Speaker 1: that when she dies, she wants to die in her sleep.
Speaker 1: Robert asks the neighbor what it feels like to kill someone.
Speaker 1: On April seventh, fifty hours before the murders, Robert and
Speaker 1: Mary go to the movies. They seem fine. The next
Speaker 1: morning they go to church. Robert says he's in a
Speaker 1: lot of pain. Mary and the kids have lunch with
Speaker 1: Mary's mom, soup salad. They seem fine. They have thirty
Speaker 1: six hours to live. The bipolarity of this final week
Speaker 1: is dizzying normal, abnormal, stasis, change, control, chaos, Mary afraid
Speaker 1: of Robert, and Mary going to the movies with him smiling.
Speaker 1: The biggest question of this case, other than where's Robert Fisher?
Speaker 1: Is why? What led to the murders? I think we
Speaker 1: can answer that. Nineteen eighty five the seed Robert's back
Speaker 1: injury control, Robert starts to lose it. Nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 1: the fuel infidelity alt Robert tries to adjust. Two thousand
Speaker 1: and one the spark delete the murders? What is the spark?
Speaker 1: What triggers Robert or his demons to detonate the House
Speaker 1: of Fisher. I have a theory based on a new fact,
Speaker 1: which I'll share with you next week. Before you go,
Speaker 1: let me tell you a story about loss of control
Speaker 1: and trauma and what comes next. Twenty thirteen was the
Speaker 1: worst year of my life and also one of the best.
Speaker 1: That January I started to spiral. I sank into severe
Speaker 1: depression and anxiety, and for the first time, started having
Speaker 1: panic attacks. There are certain pains you can't understand unless
Speaker 1: you experience them. Ten minutes felt like ten years eternal torture.
Speaker 1: My only relief was sleep. For the first and only
Speaker 1: time I was suicidal. I wanted to jump off the
Speaker 1: Golden Gate Bridge. Thankfully I didn't. By early March, I
Speaker 1: gave up my apartment in Seattle, flew home, stayed with
Speaker 1: my aunt and grandma. My life shrank down to a
Speaker 1: single room, slowly, though I clawed it back. That August,
Speaker 1: I moved to Louise, where I met my current partner,
Speaker 1: who I'm still with eleven years later. In New Orleans,
Speaker 1: I started archival research that later formed the backbone of
Speaker 1: season one of this show. Missing in Alaska twenty thirteen
Speaker 1: was the year I dissolved and reconstituted. This episode is
Speaker 1: about change and trauma and control. When you're suffering, nothing
Speaker 1: hurts more than to feel like you're alone. Nothing hurts
Speaker 1: more than to feel like things will never get better.
Speaker 1: So I want to share my story with you. You
Speaker 1: don't have to go the way of Kurt Cobain or
Speaker 1: Robert Fisher. I can't promise things will get better, but
Speaker 1: I can promise it's possible, and at the least I
Speaker 1: can promise you you're not alone. A phone number won't solve everything,
Speaker 1: I know, but it's a first step. You can reach
Speaker 1: the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by phone or text
Speaker 1: at nine eight eight or online at nine eight eight
Speaker 1: lifeline dot org. If you're struggling, please seek help. You're
Speaker 1: listening to this show today because things did get better
Speaker 1: for someone who suffered intensely. Things can get better for
Speaker 1: you too. You're not alone Next time, I'm missing in Arizona.
Speaker 4: As of today, there's thirty possible matches to him within
Speaker 4: one hundred miles of where he disappeared.
Speaker 1: You can reach us by phone at one eight three
Speaker 1: three new tips that's one eight three three six three
Speaker 1: nine eight four seven seven, by email at tips at
Speaker 1: iHeartMedia dot com, tips at iHeartMedia dot com, online at
Speaker 1: Neon thirty three dot com, or on Twitter at John Wallzac,
Speaker 1: j O, n Wa l Czak. Paul Deckan is our
Speaker 1: executive producer. Chris Brown is our supervising producer. Hannah Rose
Speaker 1: Snyder is our producer. Paul Gemberline is our researcher. Ben
Speaker 1: Bolan is a consulting producer, and I'm your host and
Speaker 1: executive producer John Wallzac Special thanks to Mike Hicks. Additional
Speaker 1: production support provided by Ben Hackett. Cover art by Pam Peacock,
Speaker 1: Neon thirty three, logo design Derek Rudy. Our intro song
Speaker 1: is Utopia by Ruby Cube. Please download the first two
Speaker 1: seasons of our show, Missing in Alaska and Missing on
Speaker 1: nine to eleven, and if you're so inclined, give us
Speaker 1: a five star rating. Missing in Arizona is a co
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio and Neon thirty three.