1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 1: Missing in Arizona contains graphic depictions of violence and may 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: not be suitable for all listeners. This episode also discusses suicide. 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: You can reach the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline at 4 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: nine to eight eight. His final days and hours that 5 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: April are murky. He'd been suffering from pain for a 6 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: long time and drugging himself to dull it. There was 7 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: a brief golden moment in the early nineties after his 8 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: daughter was born, but an uneasy piece gave way to 9 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: spiraling volatility. He was used to that. He came from 10 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: a broken home, a child of divorce. In the end, 11 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: he was alone. Someone thought they saw him at a bar, 12 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: but that sighting is unconfirmed. We don't know what happened 13 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: in his final hours as they wound down, though he 14 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: made a choice burn out, don't fade away, exit in 15 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: a flash. No one heard the gunshot. I used to 16 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: live in a building in Seattle called the Okay Hotel. 17 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: It was a famous music venue until two thousand and one, 18 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: when an earthquake damaged it. Later it was converted into 19 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:06,040 Speaker 1: affordable apartments and artists studios. When I moved to Seattle, 20 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: I made so little money I qualified to live there. 21 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: My ex and I signed a lease, then broke up, 22 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: but stayed for a bit. The day after we broke up, 23 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: my brain was a cauldron of depression, anxiety, and cabin fever. 24 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: Outside lay a perfect summer day, sunny, low seventies, A 25 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: breeze blew in off Puget Sound. I decided to walk 26 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: across the city to Kurt Cobain's house. This is where 27 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 1: he died by suicide in April nineteen ninety four. As 28 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: a kid, even now I related relate to Cobain. He 29 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: wasn't my generation, but what does it matter. I love 30 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: his music. I loved the idea of him more a 31 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: loner with mental health issues, dedicated to art who stood 32 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: up for the downtrodden, troubled but gentle, empathetic kind, the 33 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: nineties icon who said I feel your pain and meant it, 34 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: and we felt his. When someone like that made they 35 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: make everyone like them feel less alone. Living in Seattle, 36 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: I'd often pass bits of Nirvana history, the bar Cobain 37 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: might have visited right before he died, Linda's tavern, the 38 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: motel where he used to shoot up heroin, the Marco Polo. 39 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,359 Speaker 1: I didn't even have to leave my building to see 40 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: a bit of his history. The Okay Hotel is where 41 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: Nirvana premiered smells like teen Spirit in April nineteen ninety one. 42 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: Twenty years later, when I moved in, the stage was gone, 43 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: but I figured out where it stood in what became 44 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: my building's trash room. This bit of music history was 45 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: where I dumped my garbage. Honestly, I think Kurt would approve. 46 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: My ex moved out. I made friends and went to 47 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: concerts and games and art shows and clubs. Back home alone, 48 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: I'd take out the trash down an elevator to this 49 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 1: little room where a stage once stood, where an artist 50 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: once stood, I'd pause. We can never hold the anarchy 51 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: of change, that permanent impermanence, in anything but a brief abeyance. 52 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: With all our might. The best we can do is 53 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: slow it down, watch it approach frame by frame. Often 54 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 1: we can't even do that. It speeds toward us, a 55 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: towering tsunami of shadows that will consume us, a menacing 56 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: specter that never lets us forget who's in control. Sometimes 57 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: it's unpredictably benevolent. Often it's not. It can demonstrate bipolarity 58 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: in the extreme rewarding us with riches material and immaterial, 59 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 1: and torturing us at the same time. That's how a 60 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: little boy from Aberdeen, Washington grows into a global icon, 61 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: all the world his stage, while simultaneously dealing with addiction 62 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: and depression and dying at the end of a needle 63 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: and a gun. That's how a little boy in Arizona 64 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: grows into a man of more modest success a wife, 65 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: two kids, a house, a job at the Mayo Clinic 66 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: Hospital in Phoenix, while simultaneously fighting his demons. The story 67 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: of Kurt Cobain is one of a man who's pain 68 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: never stamped out his humanity. The story of Robert Fisher 69 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: is one of a man who's pain crystallized into a 70 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: brutal act of violence. One self immolated, one immolated others. 71 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: What separates you, I hope, from both of them is 72 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: how you handle change. Isn't this what divides our society? 73 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: How we handle change. Those of us who have seen 74 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 1: the glory wanta martin reverse. Those of us who never 75 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: reached it want to push forward. One side looks in 76 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: a mirror and seeks to restore an unrestorable stasis. The 77 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 1: other punches a hole in that mirror and claws forward 78 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: through glass. We play an interminable game of tug of war, 79 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: forcing change, reacting to it. This is the fault line 80 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: of our times. At this pivot point in history, the 81 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: forces of progress and the forces of reaction are engaged 82 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: in a ferocious battle. Islam speaks of two jihads. You 83 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: likely know one of them an external war, not the 84 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: other an internal war. A siren calls out to your demons. 85 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: Ask yourself, who's in control you? The demons? The story 86 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: of Kurt Cobain is one of spiraling decline. The story 87 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: of Robert Fisher is one of spiraling decline. The story 88 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: of America I Fear is one of spiraling decline. Kurt 89 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 1: died by suicide. Robert killed his wife and kids, burned 90 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 1: down their house, and fled. In the end, who was 91 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: in control Kurt or his demons? Robert or his demons? 92 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: Is suicide or murder? A final exercise of control, of 93 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: agency or the loss of it? Do you die by 94 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: suicide or commit it? Who's in control now you or 95 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: your demons? America's better angels or the demons of decline? 96 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: From iHeartRadio and Neon thirty three, I'm John Walzac and 97 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: This is Missing in Arizona, the story of a man 98 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: who disappeared after allegedly killing his wife and kids, blowing 99 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: up their bourbon home, and escaping into the wilderness. Twenty 100 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: three years later, I'm hunting Robert Fisher, and I need 101 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: your helping. The Fall of the House of Fisher begins 102 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 1: in January nineteen eighty five in Barrego Springs, California, a 103 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: tiny arid town between San Diego and the Salton Sea. 104 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: After three years in the Navy, Robert gets a job 105 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 1: here as a firefighter and emt. He and Mary get 106 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: married in Arizona in November nineteen eighty four. She follows 107 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: him back to California. The seed of their demise, the 108 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 1: first flap of the butterflies Wings, arises only two months 109 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: later January nineteen eighty five. Ronald Reagan has sworn in 110 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: for a second term. Michael Jackson, Cindy Lauper, and others 111 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: record We Are the World. In Brego Springs, Mary Fisher, 112 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: twenty two, settles into married life. The honeymoon phase begins. 113 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: Robert is a hero in her eyes and his A 114 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 1: lean twenty three year old with brownish blonde hair, and 115 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: blue eyes a firefighter. The honeymoon phase ends. Robert got 116 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: what he wanted Mary, and then a friend tells me 117 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: the costume came off. Isolated in rural California, Robert tightens 118 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: his grip. He owns Mary. She's his wife. He's in control. 119 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: Control is everything for Robert. It's how he shows the 120 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: world himself that he's a man. It's how he deals 121 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: with the anarchy outside. He can't control the world, fine, 122 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: he can control his wife. He can build a domestic 123 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: castle in which he alone is king. Yet even the 124 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: best constructed castle has weak points. In January nineteen eighty five, 125 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: the anarchy breaks in. This is when Robert injures his 126 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: back on the job, a seed of chaos that will 127 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: destroy him. He responds to a car accident. Someone flipped 128 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: their car and rolled down a hill. Robert climbs down 129 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,239 Speaker 1: and pulls the victim out of the wreckage. He carries 130 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 1: them up to the road, and in the process, he 131 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: blows out multiple discs in his back. This dramatically affects 132 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: his future. He needs spinal surgery. He can no longer 133 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: do the job he loves. He reaches a settlement with 134 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: the fire department medical retirement or workers comp or something 135 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: so here. He is twenty three back injury, chronic pain, 136 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: limited job options. He and Mary decide to return to Arizona, 137 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: first Phoenix, then Scottsdale. Robert attends community college in nineteen 138 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: eighty seven. He starts a new career as a respiratory therapist. 139 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 1: He still gets to be a hero, kind of just 140 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: standing at a hospital instead of racing into fires. He 141 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: and Mary move into twenty two to twenty three north 142 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: seventy fourth place in Scottsdale in January nineteen eighty eight, 143 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: Newcastle fresh start. That April, Mary gives birth to their 144 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: first child, Brittany, and in September nineteen ninety their second, Bobby. 145 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: The late eighties and early nineties speedby with only one 146 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: notable incident. Robert shoots a dog May eleventh, nineteen eighty nine. 147 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: This account is based on police reports, interviews with neighbors, 148 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 1: and details from the Arizona Republic. Around three PM, as 149 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: Robert leaves for work, he sees a stray pit bull. 150 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: It's beefy seventy pounds of muscle and growling. Robert's dog, Ruger, 151 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: a black lab, runs to it. The pit bull strikes. 152 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: The dogs fight. Robert runs inside, grabs a pistol and 153 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,679 Speaker 1: shoots the pit bull, which staggers off, leaving a trail 154 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: of blood. Police and animal control show up. Robert says 155 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: he has no regrets. The pit bull was killing Ruger 156 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: and it was an imminent danger not only to kids 157 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: on the street, but also kids at a nearby school 158 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: about to let out for the day. Police and media 159 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: later used this incident to paint Robert as a dog 160 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: shooting psycho. In June two thousand and one, after the murders, 161 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: police say Robert orchestrated the dog fight so he could 162 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 1: shoot the pit bull, but that's not accurate or fair. 163 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: One neighbor sees the pit bull, pulls his kids inside 164 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,439 Speaker 1: and calls nine one one before the shooting. Another Paul 165 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: is home at the time, asleep. The commotion wakes him up. 166 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: He goes outside ask Bob, what the heck's going on here? 167 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 2: I mean it was self defense because that pitbull shreds 168 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 2: his dog. 169 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,719 Speaker 1: The pit bull menaced the neighborhood for weeks. Combing through 170 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: Fisher family videos, I find this clip from April twenty ninth, 171 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine, fifteen days before the shooting. Listen closely, 172 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: like Robert, what does the pit bull look like? A 173 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 1: little bit like a box of a little bit like 174 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: a boxer, but thinner face dog. I'm scared to death 175 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: of that dog, So I think we can safely say 176 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: the pit bull was a credible threat. This is a 177 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: great example of how a fact can be used to 178 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: paint a misleading portrait. Which of the following is true 179 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 1: man shoots pitbull to protect his dog and local children 180 00:10:52,400 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: or unhinged maniac shoots dog. In December nineteen eighty nine, 181 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: Hollywood releases a movie called Cha Devil forty eight percent 182 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: on Rotten Tomatoes. Meryl Street plays Wait for It. Mary Fisher, 183 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: a romance novelist who runs off with a guy named Bob. 184 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: Roseanne Barr plays Bob's wife, Ruth. Ruth seeks revenge. Using 185 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 1: gas as an accelerant, she blows up Bob's house in 186 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: a massive explosion. I found this by accident while searching 187 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: for an article on the pit bull shooting. I didn't 188 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,079 Speaker 1: understand at first why there were so many results for 189 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: Mary Fisher and nineteen eighty nine. She Devil is about 190 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: a woman who loses control and chooses to deal with 191 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: it in a black comedy deranged way, I imagine, and 192 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: it was cathartic for women to see violent retribution play 193 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: out with the classic roles reversed. There's a bubbling anger 194 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: out there, women beaten down literally and metaphorically, who just 195 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: aren't gonna take it anymore. I once worked as an 196 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: editor for Microsoft. I saw in real time which topics 197 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: had max clickbait potential puppies, celebrities, sex, and wives killing 198 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: their husbands. I put up something about a Pakistani woman 199 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: who killed her husband and cooked him in a pot. 200 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: She claimed he tried to molest their daughter. Headline wife 201 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: cook's husband. My bosses were pissed, fair enough. Not a 202 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: judgment call I would make today, but it did numbers anyway. 203 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 1: The nineties the end of History, smash Mouth, Blockbuster, OJ, 204 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: You've Got Mail. As the nineties progress, Robert Fisher's back 205 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: pain worsens. In nineteen ninety nine, on the eve of 206 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: Y two K, he sees a masseuse. At the time, 207 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: the Phoenix Metro has a ton of massage parlors that 208 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: are in fact front for prostitution. In April nineteen ninety nine, 209 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 1: scott Steel police raid a parlor five minutes from the 210 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: Fisher house. In November nineteen ninety nine, Masa police conduct 211 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: a sting in which officers allow sex workers to touch 212 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: their genitals. According to the Arizona Republic. In April two thousand, 213 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: scott Steel police raid another parlor ten minutes from the 214 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:24,199 Speaker 1: Fisher House. It's unclear Robert knows he'll be offered sex. Nonetheless, 215 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety nine, he and a masseuse have a 216 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,199 Speaker 1: sexual encounter at a hotel five minutes from the Fisher house. 217 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: This is a pivotal moment in his demise. The House 218 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: of Fisher falls faster now. We previously reported that Robert 219 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,319 Speaker 1: may have had an affair with a co worker in 220 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: the mid nineties. Even if true, Mary never finds out 221 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: about it. She does find out about this one though. 222 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: In August nineteen ninety nine, Robert writes her a letter confessing. 223 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 1: He expresses remorse and says he understands if she wants 224 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: to separate. He tells her he's leaving for thirty days, 225 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: retreating to a cabin. 226 00:13:58,720 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 3: In the woods. 227 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: He can that if she does want to break up, 228 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: he's going to commit suicide. This is about fidelity, not sex. 229 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: But sex has been problematic for the Fishers. Robert wants 230 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: it every single day. Mary doesn't. I could see at eighteen, 231 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: but at forty, her friend tells police, who wants to 232 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: have sex every day? Robert just wants to prove that 233 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: he can. Mary says. Mary doesn't enjoy it, quote dishes laundry. Sex. 234 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: But it's not a big deal, she says, quote just 235 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: ky jelly and five minutes. She wants to be a 236 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: good wife. Sex is quote a small price to pay. 237 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: Robert has always felt insecure and inadequate. He tells a 238 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: friend he married up. He's trying to prove he's a man, 239 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: but he can't please his wife. Sex with Robert is 240 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: a five minute chore. Robert needs to prove he's a man, though, 241 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: He takes supplements to boost his testosterone. According to his 242 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: friend Jim Rodin. 243 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 3: Whether it was the creatine or whatever supplement, he goes, 244 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 3: you know, just gives you that boost a testosterone to 245 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 3: piss you law to push the bar up one more frickin' time. 246 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 3: So he had that kind of whoah, tough guy that 247 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 3: he loved, loved to foster in him. 248 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: Another friend, Ken tells police that Robert has a quote 249 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: sexual problem a wandering eye. A third says Robert struggled 250 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: with porn during his navy days. Temptation in nineteen ninety nine, 251 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: if not earlier. Robert succumbs. He confesses that infidelity to 252 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: Mary and takes time off work. He drives to a 253 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: cabin on Hawley Lake, four hours away, and he waits 254 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: for Mary to reach out to him. Instead, she ignores him. 255 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: This is not going to plan. He's not in control. 256 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: He calls her, asking her to come up to the lake. 257 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: She consults his friend Ken, a pastor. Fearing for her safety, 258 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: Ken advises her not to go. Mary stays in Scottsdale. 259 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: Three days later, Robert comes home. He apologizes, He buys 260 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: her a ring. He seems to feel genuine remorse, but 261 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: he's also practical. He knows he's on the edge of divorce, 262 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: so he seeks help from friends, from God. 263 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 3: He felt terrible. Jim Rodin felt dirty, felt condemned his 264 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 3: childhood faith and the conscience that it developed. He knew 265 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 3: that he was dirty and caught. He knew that it 266 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 3: could cost him his marriage. He knew that it could 267 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 3: severely damage his children. 268 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: What follows is a false spring Robert attends to hers 269 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: religiously and participates weekly in immen's ministry. For the first time, 270 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: Mary sees this stubborn man make an effort to change himself, 271 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: not her or the world. 272 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 3: There was a season there where Mary was thankful and 273 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 3: stunned at the quality of person she saw he could be, 274 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 3: And for about a year the marriage began to thrive. 275 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 3: Robert was even reading the scriptures to his kids. Somewhere 276 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 3: in there, something changed. He started to drift again. 277 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: By October two thousand, six months before the murders, a 278 00:16:55,560 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: switch flips. Everyone notices a shift in Robert's behavior. Holl's 279 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: a coworker that he's in pain. His back is hurting again, 280 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 1: making matters worse. In November nineteen ninety nine, he also 281 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: injured his knee while playing football in a park. Robert 282 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:14,919 Speaker 1: quote Tor Stuff, a friend says October two thousand, Robert 283 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: William Fisher, aged thirty nine, in pain. But nothing can 284 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: control him, damn it, not even his health. He goes hunting. 285 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 1: On the way he spots an elk on the side 286 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 1: of the road. He gets out and shoots it. He 287 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: guts it and tries to load it into the bed 288 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: of his truck, but he can't. His pain is in control, 289 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 1: not him. Mary confides to friends, including Mary Beth Rodin, 290 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: that she's scared and so is Robert, because. 291 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 4: He was facing potential surgery for his back. 292 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: This terrifies Robert. He's worried surgery will paralyze him, and 293 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 1: he knows a paralyzed life is a difficult life. His 294 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 1: close friend, a neighbor, was paralyzed in a freak accident. 295 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,919 Speaker 1: One day, Robert sees this man fall out of a chair. 296 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,199 Speaker 1: He has to help the man's son lift him on up. 297 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: He later says, quote, it was like deadlifting four hundred pounds. 298 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: So what should Robert do? He's in pain, but he's 299 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: petrified of surgery, of paralysis, career ending disability, total loss 300 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: of control. He starts to withdraw from church, friends, the gym. 301 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 1: In December two thousand, he stops working out. He's constantly 302 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: popping pills, percocet, Perkidan, ballium. He seems to be addicted. 303 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 1: Friends later question whether or not his pill habit affects 304 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 1: his mental state. In the lead up to the murders, 305 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 1: let me pause for a second and talk about pain. 306 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,199 Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen, I had two failed root canals that 307 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: left me in pain for months, facial pain, nerve pain. 308 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: I lost feeling in part of my tongue, It affected 309 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: my speech. No doctor would help me. They all thought 310 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: I wanted pills, which I didn't. I remember sitting at 311 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:56,439 Speaker 1: home watching daytime TV. Is there anything more depressing? So 312 00:18:56,560 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: many pain commercials, all targeting people like me. Nothing instills 313 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: a greater appreciation for a normal, boring life than an 314 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: extended period of pain. Thankfully, I found an amazing dentist 315 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: and a talented oral surgeon. I got better. But what 316 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: about the people who don't, The people with unsolvable pain, 317 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: Kurt Cobain and his stomach, Robert Fischer and his back. 318 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: We can't just tell them to avoid drugs and suffer. Thankfully, 319 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: we seem to be at the dawn of a new 320 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: golden age of medicine, driven in part by AI. In January, 321 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: a Boston company announced an experimental drug VX five four 322 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: eight that appears highly effective in relieving certain types of 323 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: acute pain. Scientists are also developing stem cell treatments and 324 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: experimental nerve stimulation devices. It's alluring to consider the impact 325 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: this kind of innovation might have on society. Maybe somewhere soon, 326 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 1: a musician with stomach pain chooses to live a father 327 00:19:52,240 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: with back pain doesn't spiral into murder. If you like 328 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,919 Speaker 1: this show, please download our first two seasons, Missing in 329 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: Alaska and Missing on nine to eleven. For updates, visit 330 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,479 Speaker 1: neon thirty three dot com or follow me on Twitter 331 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: at John Waalzac jo N wal Czak. Thanks for listening. 332 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: December two thousand, Robert gets sick with what he says 333 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: is either a urinary tract infection UTI or prostatitis. Police 334 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: later speculate that he actually caught a sexually transmitted infection 335 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 1: or STI, which would indicate he cheated on Mary again, 336 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: which would likely lead her to divorce him. January two 337 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: thousand and one. Mary complains to Robert that he's letting 338 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: himself go. His muscle tone is down. Maybe this seems 339 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 1: mean given his back pain, but not when you consider 340 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: how he treats Mary, dictating how many slices of pizza 341 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: she can have, locking her out of the house, forcing 342 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 1: her to walk because he doesn't want a fat wife. 343 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: In that context, I say to Mary, good for you. 344 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: It's an example of Mary's standing up for herself. January twentieth. 345 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: George W. Bush is inaugurated president. January twenty seventh. Robert 346 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 1: pawns an expensive nine millimeter handgun for a lesser quality 347 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 1: thirty eight. This is the thirty eight that'll disappear after 348 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: the murders. Do me a favor if you own one. 349 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: Check the serial number. We're looking for a snubnose five 350 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 1: shot thirty eight serial number CEC four nine two four 351 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: CEC four nine two four. February two thousand and one, 352 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: Mary's friend who doesn't want to be named, visits and 353 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: stays with the Fishers. She sees Robert popping pills and 354 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: tells him he needs to schedule back surgery. He says 355 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 1: he's scared that if he he does, he'll end up paralyzed. 356 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: February fifteenth, Robert speaks to his dad for the final time. 357 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: Late February or early March, Robert visits Don's Sports Shop 358 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: in Scottsdale, a storewear Over the years, he's purchased rifles, ammo, 359 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: and camping gear. It's unclear what he buys today, if anything. 360 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: March two thousand and one, Robert and his friend Ashley's arsty, 361 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: their spouses and their kids spend a weekend together at 362 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: a cabin near Whispering Pines, ninety miles north of Scottsdale. 363 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: Robert drinks bourbon, chews tobacco, and teaches Ashley's young son 364 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 1: how to fish. He and Mary seem normal. However, not 365 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: long after the trip, Ashley hears a rumor that Robert 366 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: isn't coming home. Some nights sometime in March, Robert attends 367 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: a parent teacher conference at Suppie Middle School with Miss Honey, 368 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: Britney's social studies and math teacher. Mary doesn't attend. 369 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 5: So we were on the ESL block English as a 370 00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 5: Second Language. We had multi lingual students, Spanish. I had 371 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 5: a rocky student and during that parentidge conference I was 372 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 5: talking to him and I was explaining her grades in 373 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 5: my class and what we were doing. And then he said, 374 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 5: why is she in these classes with these immigrants or 375 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 5: these Mexicans? And I said, this is the English as 376 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 5: a Second Language blob, why is she there. I don't 377 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 5: want her. I want her moved, I want her way 378 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 5: from those And I remember being very off put by that. 379 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,199 Speaker 1: Miss Honey is later the second to last person to 380 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: see and speak with Robert, hours before the murders March fifth, 381 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 1: a fifteen year old gunman shoots and kills two classmates 382 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,160 Speaker 1: and injures eleven others plus two staffers at Santana High 383 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: School in Sante, California. March tenth, one month until the murders, 384 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: Bobby Junior participates in the Iwana Olympics, a Christian sporting event, 385 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: with friends including Brock Anderson. Brock sends me a photo 386 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: of him, Bobby, and eleven other boys standing in a 387 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,880 Speaker 1: group in red T shirts wearing medals. Some make funny faces, 388 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: some look away. Bobby stares directly at the camera. March fourteenth, 389 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: Robert Phil's prescriptions for perkindan an opioid painkiller, diazepam, an 390 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: anxiety medication, Celebrex, an anti inflammatory drug, and cyclo benzaprene, 391 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 1: a muscle relaxant. Sometime mid to late March, Mary's friend 392 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: Kim Davidson stops by the Fisher House unannounced. 393 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 2: I was off work for some reason, so I decided 394 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 2: to just go pop in and visit her. At first, 395 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 2: I went by the Bible study that we would have 396 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 2: been at had I not been working, and everyone said 397 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,479 Speaker 2: she didn't show up that day, which is very unusual 398 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 2: because she was always there, and so I ran over 399 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 2: to by her house see if she was sick or something. 400 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 2: She answered the door and was almost nervous. She didn't 401 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 2: invite me in, which was very unusual. She just kind 402 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 2: of stood and bought the door. And then she said 403 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 2: that she'd hurt her hand, and Robert wanted her to 404 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 2: go to the emergency room to get a look tickn 405 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 2: at it. I don't even know if he was home 406 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 2: at the time. So I said, do you want me 407 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 2: to drive you there, because you've got your hand, I'll drive. 408 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 2: She says, no, no, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. And 409 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 2: that was the last time I saw her. 410 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: Do you remember any other time that you stopped by 411 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: her house that she did not invite you in? Never 412 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: did you see her hand injury. 413 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 2: I vaguely remember it, but not really. I know she 414 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 2: was holding her hand. 415 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: There's no way to tell for sure how Mary injured 416 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,919 Speaker 1: her hand, but it's hard to listen to Kim's account 417 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: and not suspect it was during a fight with Robert, 418 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: which would indicate a rapid deterioration in their relationship. No 419 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: one I or the police interviewed, no matter how much 420 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 1: they hated Robert reported seeing any sign of physical abuse 421 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 1: on Mary or the kids. Ever, no weird cuts or 422 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: bruises or anything. Mary was proud and private. She could 423 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: have hidden it, but she confided other embarrassing things to 424 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 1: family and friends, like Robert's fling with the masseuse. She 425 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: never told anyone that he was physically violent standing in 426 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: Mary's doorway. Kim knows something's wrong. 427 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 2: More than the hand. It was her demeanor. Now that 428 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 2: I think back, it could have been fear that I 429 00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 2: was sensing from her. But I even went home after 430 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 2: that and told my husband, I said, I don't know 431 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 2: what's going on with Mary. I thought, well, maybe she's 432 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 2: mad at me about something, just because of the way 433 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 2: she reacted. 434 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: Sometime in mid to late March, Robert stops by Mary's 435 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: office unannounced, which is out of the norm. According to 436 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: Mary's boss and friend, Lori Greenbeck, It's part of a 437 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: pattern Lourie notices leading up to the murders. 438 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 6: So he had to take some time off work because 439 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 6: he had some kind of kidney infection or utah or something. 440 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 6: And I could tell he was in trouble with Mary 441 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 6: because he had bought a truck that she didn't know 442 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 6: anything about. He just came to the office and wanted 443 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 6: to show her this truck. 444 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: Later, Robert shows up again on foot. 445 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 6: So our office was right off a green belt between 446 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 6: where we lived and where they lived, and so he 447 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 6: had walked up with the kids to ride. 448 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 4: Home with Mary. And so that was just something he 449 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 4: would never do. 450 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: Being a chauvinistic Robert is king, and when you're king, 451 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: you don't go to your wife. She comes to you. 452 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 1: Obedient wife, obedient children. 453 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 6: He was very controlling of their whole family, not just Mary, 454 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 6: but the kids. Like he wouldn't let Britney sell Girl 455 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 6: Scout cookies, even though Mary was the Girl Scout cookie mom. 456 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 6: But Britney was not allowed to sell Girl Scout Why 457 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,640 Speaker 6: you know, Oh, he just thought it looked like begging. 458 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: Late March, three weeks until the murders, Robert speaks for 459 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: the final time with his younger sister Jean. He tells 460 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: her he bought a new truck. He says his back 461 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: pain is quote bearable. At work, Robert appears stressed and paranoid, 462 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: quiet and serious, withdrawn He ruminates about how life would 463 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 1: have been different if his parents didn't divorce when he 464 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: was a kid. March twenty second, Robert calls a friend 465 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: in San Diego to check on his wife, a teacher 466 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: at Santana High School, where the shooting took place two 467 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,199 Speaker 1: weeks ago. It's one of two connections Robert has to 468 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,120 Speaker 1: the school. He has another friend who works there too, 469 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: a baseball coach named Bob. One of Robert's friends knew 470 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 1: the shooter. The other knew one of the kids killed. 471 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 1: Robert tells a coworker that the shooter was bullied repeatedly 472 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: quote you know how long can a kid go on 473 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 1: being bullied like that? Inspired by the shooting, the band 474 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: Pod will later release the number one song Youth of 475 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: the Nation. Friday, March thirtieth, eleven days until the murders. 476 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,959 Speaker 1: Robert and Mary have the day off. They load Robert's 477 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: quad an ATV into the back of his truck and 478 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: head into the wilderness. Three people, Mary's dad, a friend, 479 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: and a neighbor later tell police about the trip. The 480 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: friend doesn't know where Robert and Mary go. The dad 481 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: says they go into the desert. The neighbor says they 482 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: go up in the mountains near young When Bobby gets 483 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: home from school, Robert and Mary are still out. They 484 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: spend the entire day together, and by Mary's account, they 485 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: have a good time. This is important for two reasons. First, 486 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: it shows that Robert and Mary are on at least 487 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: somewhat good terms today, eleven days before the murders. Second, 488 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: if they are near young, they're not far from where 489 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: police later find Mary's SUV. Saturday, March thirty, first, ten 490 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: days until the murders, Robert and Mary attend a wedding 491 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: in Sedona, two hours north of Scottsdale. When I learn 492 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: about this, alarm bells go off in a good way. 493 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: The most recent photo I have of Robert is from 494 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: December nineteen ninety nine. I don't have any of him 495 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,239 Speaker 1: taken after that. Neither do the police. If Robert and 496 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: Mary attend a wedding, they're likely caught on film by 497 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: a professional photographer only ten days before the murders. The 498 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: problem is I know nothing except that they attend a 499 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: friend's wedding in Sedona on March thirty first, two thousand 500 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: and one. That's it, not a lot to work with. 501 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: I spend months trying to figure out whose wedding no 502 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: one knows. Then I hear back from one of Mary's 503 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: friends who finally tells me the name of the bride 504 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: and groom, Colleen called Kalb and Dave Strutt. I reach 505 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: out to Dave and Colleen separately. They're no longer married. 506 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: To my surprise, Dave calls back quickly. Yes, they did 507 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,959 Speaker 1: have photos of Robert and Mary at the wedding. He 508 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: thinks they're in storage for months. We text. He goes 509 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: to the storage unit. He can't find any photos of 510 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: the wedding none. He doesn't know what happened to them. 511 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: I hear back from Colleen indirectly through her sister, who 512 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: tells me Colleen lost her wedding photos in some kind 513 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: of storage mishap. The sister has a few photos, but 514 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: none of the fishers. No one knows the name of 515 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: the wedding photographer, and no one remembers the name of 516 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: the venue. So, my beloved audience, I'm throwing you a 517 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 1: hail Mary. Did you attend the wedding? Did you photograph it? 518 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: If so, please contact us. At the wedding, Robert and 519 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 1: Mary appear to get along. They seem fine when it ends. 520 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: They drive to the town of Prescott, pr E Scott 521 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: to visit Robert's mom, Jan They stay the night at 522 00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: someone's house, probably Jans Sunday, April first, first nine days 523 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 1: until the murders. Before heading home to Scottsdale, Robert and 524 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: Mary drive north from Prescott. To Mary's surprise, Robert makes 525 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: an unexpected stop at a quote survivalist compound. This has 526 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: never been reported until now. Mary later tells her friend 527 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: Mary Beth Rodin about it. 528 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 4: I remember Mary coming over and saying, yeah, the wedding 529 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 4: was awesome, but Robert had to go to this dumb 530 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 4: survivalist place. 531 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: In the town of Paulden, population forty five hundred, thirty 532 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: five minutes north of Prescott, the wrong direction from Scottsdale, 533 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: adding at least an hour and ten minutes to the 534 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 1: trip home. 535 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 4: He'd made the trip to go talk to these survivalist 536 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 4: people in Paulden about something. 537 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: When they get to the compound, Robert tells Mary to 538 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 1: wait in the car. He's gone for an hour. She 539 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: doesn't know what he's doing. When he returns, they drive 540 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: back to Scottsdale. Who did Robert know in Paulden? What 541 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: was he doing at a survivalist compound and why did 542 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: he make Mary wait in the car for an hour? 543 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: I don't know, but i'd like to time. The week 544 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: before the murders, Brittany competes in a Pinewood Derby competition 545 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: in which kids raise small wooden cars. At church, her 546 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: car breaks down. She's eliminated. A pastor says she disabled 547 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: her car on purpose because she didn't want to beat 548 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 1: a younger kid. Teachers notice that Brittany's not herself. She 549 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: seems depressed. She quits the track team separately. Robert and 550 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: Bobby played basketball in a neighbor's driveway. Robert asks the 551 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: neighbor what it feels like to kill someone. He seems upset. 552 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: Robert visits another neighbor, his paralyzed friend. They watched the 553 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: TV show Eco Challenge, which features a segment on water purification. 554 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 1: Robert expresses interest in learning how to purify water. Wednesday, 555 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: April fourth, six days until the murders, Robert unexpectedly shows 556 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: up at church looking for Mary and the kids. 557 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 2: Mary got really like almost. 558 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: Scared once again. Kim Davidson. 559 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 2: She went to find her children, and she was very 560 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 2: upset that he was there. So it was like something 561 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 2: had happened and she didn't want to see him. 562 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: Kim isn't there, but her friend Donna is. Neither of 563 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: them has ever seen this before. Mary fearful of Robert. 564 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 1: For years, Robert liked how involved Mary was with their church. 565 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: He liked knowing where she was and who she was with. 566 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: It was easier to control her. A friend says, now 567 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: he realizes that maybe Mary's too independent. She has her 568 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: own job, her own social life. He tells a coworker 569 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: he's worried Mary is quote spending a lot of time 570 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: at church with a pastor. He feels quote that the 571 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 1: pastor is too involved in the family's life. He doesn't 572 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: name the pastor. It's extremely unlikely that Robert thinks Mary's 573 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: having an affair. This is about control. Anyone with influence 574 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: over his family, even a pastor, is a threat. Thursday, 575 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: April fifth or Friday April sixth, Robert tells a coworker 576 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: that he had the previous week off. He says he 577 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: and Mary spent a day on his ATV somewhere in 578 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: or near Roosevelt, a rugged area next to a huge lake, 579 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:08,720 Speaker 1: ninety minutes away between Scottsdale and Young Friday April sixth, 580 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: four days until the murders. Seven to ten pm, Mary 581 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,280 Speaker 1: stops at a gas station fills up. Her fore runner 582 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 1: pulls seventy five dollars from an atm. April sixth or seventh, 583 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 1: Robert shops for attic insulation. He speaks to his mother 584 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: for the final time. Brittany attends a sleepover. She allegedly 585 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 1: says that when she dies, she wants to die in 586 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: her sleep. Saturday, April seventh, three days until the murders, 587 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,359 Speaker 1: Robert tells a friend he's working overtime to pay off 588 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,800 Speaker 1: his new truck. The Fissures are in good financial shape. 589 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: They're set to pay off their mortgage early. Mary's forerunner 590 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: is paid off. They have savings. Robert heads to Checker Auto, 591 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: a nearby store. I visit the building in twenty twenty three. 592 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,760 Speaker 1: After it was Checker, it turned into an O'Reilly auto 593 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: parts store, and now it's empty. I'm pressing my face 594 00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: up against the glass and it's just filthy. 595 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 3: Thirty their leaves. 596 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,359 Speaker 1: He's a duct tape, an old sign. Looks like it's 597 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 1: been empty for a while. April seventh, two thousand and one, 598 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 1: ten oh four am, Robert buys motor oil filters and 599 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 1: a five gallon drain pan. He's caught on security footage. 600 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: I try to obtain it. The police still haven't given 601 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: it to me. I try to interview the cashier, but 602 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 1: she died. In twenty fourteen. Her death made national news. 603 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: Her four year old autistic son lived alone with her 604 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 1: body for four days until help arrived. April seventh, two 605 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 1: thousand and one, Robert changes the oil on his truck, 606 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 1: his quad, and Mary's fore runner. That night, he and 607 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: Mary go to a movie with Mary's sister and her husband. 608 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: Robert and Mary are in quote very good spirits and 609 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:48,280 Speaker 1: appear to be getting along. They're home by ten pm Sunday, 610 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 1: April eighth, two days until the murders. Ten thirty am, Robert, 611 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,879 Speaker 1: Mary and the kids attend church. Robert tells a friend 612 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 1: that he's in quite a bit of pain. His back hurts. 613 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: He says he's taking valley. The friend says that's not good. 614 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 1: Robert responds, I'm controlling it. I'm keeping it under control. 615 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 1: One PM, Mary's mom, Jinny Cooper, has lunch with Mary 616 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 1: and the kids at Sweet Tomatoes, a soup and salad restaurant. 617 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 1: Robert doesn't attend. Ginny says this is normal. Robert quote 618 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,800 Speaker 1: pretty much stays away from the family police ask why. 619 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 1: She says Robert has a fear of getting close to 620 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,760 Speaker 1: people and losing them. Three p forty six pm, Mary 621 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: signs a check at Costco. In the evening, she's back 622 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: at church. The Sopranos episode's second opinion airs on HBO. 623 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 1: It'll Win, Edie Falco and Emmy April ninth. The final 624 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:45,319 Speaker 1: day late April ninth or early April tenth, The murders 625 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: April tenth. The house explodes, So what to make of 626 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 1: all this? By April two thousand and one, Robert's behavior 627 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,320 Speaker 1: has been different for about six months. He's in pain, 628 00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:01,160 Speaker 1: popping pills, needs surgery, but is terrified it'll pair. After 629 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 1: cheating on Mary, he works hard to be a better 630 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 1: man until about October two thousand. Then he starts to 631 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: withdraw from church, friends, the gym. He seems stressed and paranoid. 632 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: In December two thousand, he gets sick with what he 633 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 1: claims is a UTI, but it might actually be an STI. 634 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,800 Speaker 1: Rumors fly that Robert had an affair and that Mary 635 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,240 Speaker 1: wants a divorce. In mid to late March, Kim Davidson 636 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: drops by the Fisher House. Mary answers the door, her 637 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,839 Speaker 1: hand is injured. She acts weird. Kim offers to drive 638 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: her to get help. Mary says no. On March thirtieth, 639 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: eleven days before the murders, Robert and Mary spend the 640 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,760 Speaker 1: day on Robert's ATV. They seem fine. On March thirty, first, 641 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 1: they attend a wedding. Again, they seem fine, but something changes. 642 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: By April fourth, Robert shows up at church looking for 643 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 1: Mary and the kids. Mary appears afraid of him. Britney 644 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: appears depressed. She quits to tract him. She allegedly says 645 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,720 Speaker 1: that when she dies, she wants to die in her sleep. 646 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: Robert asks the neighbor what it feels like to kill someone. 647 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: On April seventh, fifty hours before the murders, Robert and 648 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,359 Speaker 1: Mary go to the movies. They seem fine. The next 649 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,840 Speaker 1: morning they go to church. Robert says he's in a 650 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 1: lot of pain. Mary and the kids have lunch with 651 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:21,240 Speaker 1: Mary's mom, soup salad. They seem fine. They have thirty 652 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:25,320 Speaker 1: six hours to live. The bipolarity of this final week 653 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:31,800 Speaker 1: is dizzying normal, abnormal, stasis, change, control, chaos, Mary afraid 654 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 1: of Robert, and Mary going to the movies with him smiling. 655 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,880 Speaker 1: The biggest question of this case, other than where's Robert Fisher? 656 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,360 Speaker 1: Is why? What led to the murders? I think we 657 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,319 Speaker 1: can answer that. Nineteen eighty five the seed Robert's back 658 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,359 Speaker 1: injury control, Robert starts to lose it. Nineteen ninety nine, 659 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 1: the fuel infidelity alt Robert tries to adjust. Two thousand 660 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:59,840 Speaker 1: and one the spark delete the murders? What is the spark? 661 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,959 Speaker 1: What triggers Robert or his demons to detonate the House 662 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: of Fisher. I have a theory based on a new fact, 663 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 1: which I'll share with you next week. Before you go, 664 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 1: let me tell you a story about loss of control 665 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,160 Speaker 1: and trauma and what comes next. Twenty thirteen was the 666 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,800 Speaker 1: worst year of my life and also one of the best. 667 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:25,240 Speaker 1: That January I started to spiral. I sank into severe 668 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,919 Speaker 1: depression and anxiety, and for the first time, started having 669 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 1: panic attacks. There are certain pains you can't understand unless 670 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:37,840 Speaker 1: you experience them. Ten minutes felt like ten years eternal torture. 671 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,480 Speaker 1: My only relief was sleep. For the first and only 672 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 1: time I was suicidal. I wanted to jump off the 673 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 1: Golden Gate Bridge. Thankfully I didn't. By early March, I 674 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,880 Speaker 1: gave up my apartment in Seattle, flew home, stayed with 675 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,799 Speaker 1: my aunt and grandma. My life shrank down to a 676 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 1: single room, slowly, though I clawed it back. That August, 677 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 1: I moved to Louise, where I met my current partner, 678 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 1: who I'm still with eleven years later. In New Orleans, 679 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 1: I started archival research that later formed the backbone of 680 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,320 Speaker 1: season one of this show. Missing in Alaska twenty thirteen 681 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,440 Speaker 1: was the year I dissolved and reconstituted. This episode is 682 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,720 Speaker 1: about change and trauma and control. When you're suffering, nothing 683 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,960 Speaker 1: hurts more than to feel like you're alone. Nothing hurts 684 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,240 Speaker 1: more than to feel like things will never get better. 685 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,319 Speaker 1: So I want to share my story with you. You 686 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,840 Speaker 1: don't have to go the way of Kurt Cobain or 687 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,319 Speaker 1: Robert Fisher. I can't promise things will get better, but 688 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 1: I can promise it's possible, and at the least I 689 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:43,360 Speaker 1: can promise you you're not alone. A phone number won't solve everything, 690 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,759 Speaker 1: I know, but it's a first step. You can reach 691 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,280 Speaker 1: the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by phone or text 692 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: at nine eight eight or online at nine eight eight 693 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:57,719 Speaker 1: lifeline dot org. If you're struggling, please seek help. You're 694 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,800 Speaker 1: listening to this show today because things did get better 695 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,279 Speaker 1: for someone who suffered intensely. Things can get better for 696 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:08,800 Speaker 1: you too. You're not alone Next time, I'm missing in Arizona. 697 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 4: As of today, there's thirty possible matches to him within 698 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 4: one hundred miles of where he disappeared. 699 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,960 Speaker 1: You can reach us by phone at one eight three 700 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,879 Speaker 1: three new tips that's one eight three three six three 701 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,359 Speaker 1: nine eight four seven seven, by email at tips at 702 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 1: iHeartMedia dot com, tips at iHeartMedia dot com, online at 703 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,200 Speaker 1: Neon thirty three dot com, or on Twitter at John Wallzac, 704 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:40,440 Speaker 1: j O, n Wa l Czak. Paul Deckan is our 705 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:44,239 Speaker 1: executive producer. Chris Brown is our supervising producer. Hannah Rose 706 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,520 Speaker 1: Snyder is our producer. Paul Gemberline is our researcher. Ben 707 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 1: Bolan is a consulting producer, and I'm your host and 708 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,280 Speaker 1: executive producer John Wallzac Special thanks to Mike Hicks. Additional 709 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,280 Speaker 1: production support provided by Ben Hackett. Cover art by Pam Peacock, 710 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,000 Speaker 1: Neon thirty three, logo design Derek Rudy. Our intro song 711 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,279 Speaker 1: is Utopia by Ruby Cube. Please download the first two 712 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,360 Speaker 1: seasons of our show, Missing in Alaska and Missing on 713 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,040 Speaker 1: nine to eleven, and if you're so inclined, give us 714 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,640 Speaker 1: a five star rating. Missing in Arizona is a co 715 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,319 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio and Neon thirty three.