WEBVTT - The Future of Geothermal Part 1: Technology Development 0:00:00.000 --> 0:00:03.800 Okay, So what you're hearing here is the sound of 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:09.880 a turbine spinning. This is the turbine hall of the 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:13.960 Hellotidy geo thermal plant in Iceland. If you've been to 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:16.439 the Tate Modern in London, it looks really kind of 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:19.880 the same. It's a big, big hall that houses the 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:27.040 big spinning turbines. So we're approaching some geothermal cooling towers. 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:32.879 The fluid goes through here and water goes through the 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:35.839 heat exchangers and cools down the geothermal fluid. So you 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:41.480 can go back into the it's the ground, and here 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:43.680 is the sound of steam coming out of a recently 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:46.000 drilled well. Here at the foot of a mountain in Iceland, 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:48.440 on the site of the Hello Tidy plant. We've turned 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:51.080 it down for you, but it's roaring like a jet engine. 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.320 This single well will produce more than ten megawatts, are 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:57.480 enough to power more than a thousand homes. Geothermal is 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:00.800 a small industry, with just about fourteen get a wat's online, 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:03.600 but where it matters, it matters a lot. And the 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:06.039 thing you notice about geothermal at the plant level is 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:09.080 that it's really powerful stuff. From the wells to the 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:11.880 turbine hall to the cooling. Would you just heard so 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:16.160 conventional geothermal where developers drill down to tap an existing 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:18.640 hot water or steam reservoir to run a turbine. And 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.880 I know I'm simplifying, here is a key energy source 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:26.520 for several tectonically active locations. Basically anywhere there's a volcano. 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:30.000 I think volcanic islands where the alternative power sources shipped 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:33.800 in diesel, along the East African Rift, the Pacific Rim 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:37.600 or even Italy. In those places it can be not 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:40.399 just the cleanest form of power but also the cheapest. 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:43.679 But geothermal development is hard going out drilling wells with 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:47.360 oil and gas risk, but with utility returns, that risk 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:50.320 profile is stunted the growth of geothermal. But there are 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:53.000 several out there today working hard on technologies to d 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:56.560 risk geothermal development, squeeze additional value out of the hot 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:58.600 water coming out of the wells, and in some cases 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:01.240 throwing out the concept of convention no geo thermal entirely 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:04.920 and starting fresh. We're gonna do the show in two parts. Today. 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:07.240 In part one, we're going to talk about these new 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.919 technologies and the different ways of thinking about what geother 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:12.560 all means and what it can do. In Part two, 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:15.720 we'll talk about some market dynamics and policy changes that 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:19.480 have created some very real and immediate demand for geothermal 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.959 capacity in the US. Our guest today is hit A Thorsteinsen, 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:27.120 Managing director for Research and Innovation at RECULC Energy. As 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:29.720 always being if to not provide investment or strategy advice, 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:31.360 and you can hear the full disclaimer at the end 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:33.240 of the show, I'm Mark Taylor coming to you from 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:35.160 a force of nature and engineering at the base of 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:37.760 a mountain in Iceland and you're listening to switch on 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:50.320 the BENF podcast. Hit A, Hi, Hi, Where are we? 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:53.120 We are at har which is a concert hall and 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.640 a conference hall here in the downtown Regulic built just 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:59.160 after the crash. It was a big decision to actually 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.000 go ahead and finish the building, but it is so 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:05.320 beautiful and such a centerpiece in the middle of Reckevic. 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:07.239 It really is. The first time I was here back 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:10.640 in geez oh nine, it was not here. It was 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:14.320 just the the boats on the waterfront here, which are beautiful. 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:17.840 They are beautiful. We have this beautiful architecture designed by 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:21.880 Oliver Elison. It's built around assault columns and you can 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:24.000 change the lights in and the light is always different 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.200 depending on the weather, and then you have this beautiful 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:29.639 view over the port. It really is. It's just breathtaking. 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:32.919 Why are we here. We're here because over the past 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:35.880 three days we just had the largest Geothermore congress in 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:39.480 the world. We had over eleven participants here in Recovic 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:42.480 and then nine participants online, and so this was the 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:45.760 world geother one Congress. We've been planning this thing for 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:48.200 eight years now. We had to postpone because of COVID, 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:51.040 but we finally made it. Everyone here and it was 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:53.760 so great to get together. It really was. And I 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:55.600 came up for it and I had to say it was. 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:59.520 It was a huge success. Yeah, there's people everywhere, learned 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:01.920 a ton, got a great update on the industry, and 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:04.280 it was great to see people. Yeah, it truly was. 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:06.240 If I may say, you did a great job. You 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.120 and your group organized the whole thing and it was 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:10.520 really fantastic. Thank you. We really enjoyed it and it 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:12.520 was great to be able to get people here in 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:15.120 showcase what Iceland has been doing in the industry for 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:19.159 so long, but also how we're involving and innovating. We 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:21.680 can do a lot through virtual and we have over 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:24.400 the past two years. But getting together, that's where the 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:27.640 magic happens in the connections, and it was wonderful, awesome. 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:30.280 Let's set the scene a little bit and then we'll 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:32.560 get into the industry. Can you tell us really quick 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:34.560 where you work and what do you do there? I 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:38.240 work at Recovic Energy. It's a parent company of a 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:41.560 bunch of energy companies. Basically, we have made the utilities, 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:44.440 which is the utilities for all of Recovic and several 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:47.640 other towns in Iceland. We serve over seventy of the 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:52.560 nation with geothermal district eating, cold water, sewage services, electrical distribution. 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:55.960 We also have on Power it's a geothermal power producer 0:04:56.120 --> 0:05:00.760 and operator and they sell power from two co generation 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:03.760 geothermal power plants. And then we have a fiber optic 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:06.480 network and then car Fix our newest and youngest member, 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:10.000 which mineralizes CEO two in the ground, which is awesome, 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:14.720 really cool. And you do the research and innovation group right, Yes, yes, 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:17.040 I have the research innovation group in the parent company 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:19.320 and we serve all of the subsidiary so we get 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:21.840 to be involved with everything, which is very fun. I 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:23.480 was talking to a lot of people over the few 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:26.920 days about new tech, and it turned out that basically 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:30.760 everybody either worked for or works for you, So there 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.400 at one point anybody doing cool stuff is in your 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:35.120 in your team. Yeah, we have a we have a 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:39.120 great team, lots of cool scientists, engineers. There's just so 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:43.640 much there's so much activity, enthusiasm and all our projects. 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:46.920 There's so many projects that are really really progressing. It 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:49.240 just gives hope for the future. So going back to 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:52.000 the event, right, so this is the first event in 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:54.800 geothermal or first thing I've in geothermal I've done since 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:59.480 I'd say, when I moderated a panel geez at Geo 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:03.640 Lack in Costa Rica. What has changed in the geothermal 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:07.000 industry since that time? So just to set the scene 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:09.200 back when I was doing that, what I was interested 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.440 in at the time was fracking existing geothermal wells to 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:15.719 get more production out of them, hybrid geothermal and solar, 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:17.640 you know, to get more production out of the plant 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:20.320 and use the land more efficiently, I guess, and drilling 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.040 risk funds to sort of spread the risk of drilling 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:26.640 geo wells. Are those still hot topics or what's changed? 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:28.880 I think we've done all those and we're moving on 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:32.200 and and we're expanding into what can we hybrid with 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:36.640 other technologies like hydrogen production. We can use geothermal to 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:40.200 produce hydrogen. Because geothermal is mostly a baseload power, you 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:42.159 can have it flexible and we've been working with that 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:44.760 as well, which is an exciting subject. But we can 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:47.960 also use hydrogen to make it flexible, so we producing 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.200 hydrogen at night, solving during the day to the market. 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:54.279 We've been working with technologies of taking the small emissions 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:57.000 we have from geothermal, but actually taking the CEO two 0:06:57.000 --> 0:06:59.560 out of those and mineralizing them with carb fixed and 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:02.839 that has been a fantastic journey that happened within my company, 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:04.920 started as at Tiny R and D Project and is 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:07.719 now his own company and doing great things. The other 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:11.400 new story is back then, we weren't talking about direct use. 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:13.960 We weren't talking about heating and cooling what we've done 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:17.320 here in Iceland for so long. The first district heating system, Reculix, 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:21.080 started in n If we're going to change the world, 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:24.080 we're gonna move into a carbon free or carbon neutral world, 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:26.760 we need to find ways to heat and cooler buildings 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:30.080 with something else than fossil fuels and geothermal is a 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:34.120 great option and it's underutilized. There's so many things we 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:36.800 can do with that as a part of the circular economy. 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:40.000 I think that's the solution that now Europe is recognizing, 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:43.040 the United States is recognizing, we're seeing that people weren't 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:46.480 talking about that. And then the third thing is maybe 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:49.640 oil and gas is coming back in with a strong 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:53.360 interest and push that we're moving the whole world into 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:56.800 a new era, new energy era. Oil and gas is 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:00.280 realizing they have a lot of competencies in subserve fist 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.600 technologies which we use in geothermal, and we can work together. 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:05.600 I think we're gonna come back to each one of 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:08.520 those in turn. And we're not going to spend a 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:11.760 whole ton of time on the CEO two mineralization today. 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:14.120 We're gonna do a whole other episode on that with 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:16.360 card Fix. But I do want to spend more time 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:19.440 on the second to so the district heating and coming 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:22.280 back of let's say, well in gas on the district heating. 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:24.600 So I was at the man, forgive my pronunciation, I 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:27.720 was at a geothermal plant yesterday. I'd call it hell 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:30.920 a scity, but it's called headless saving. Oh my goodness, 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.400 thank you. If you ever in Iceland, it's a beautiful place. 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:36.240 They have a fantastic visitors center. You can even see 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:38.320 the turbine hall where the where the turbines are spinning 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:40.520 and producing the power, and you can see the pipes 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:43.080 running all over the field. It's really great. Just have 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:45.720 a visit. But one part of the tour that was 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.439 really cool was that they showed this giant cross section 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:52.840 of a pipe that takes the fluid once it's cooled 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:55.040 down a bit, and pipes it all the way to 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:57.760 Recock And I think it said it takes what thirty 0:08:57.840 --> 0:08:59.720 hours for the fluid to get there or something like that, 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:04.360 and then it is used for what's called district heating. 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:05.520 Is that right? Can you tell us a bit more 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.199 about that? Yea, So district heating system and Recular is 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:10.680 actually served by a few resource areas. Some are low 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:14.160 temperature and low temperatures around a hundred degrees celsius and below. 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:17.480 We have actually wells within the city. We're sitting on 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:19.840 a geotimal resource and so we use that and have 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:22.839 used that since nineteen and then later on when we 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:26.920 needed more resources, we developed the high temperature fields, both 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:30.040 for power and discertaining, and so that we take cold 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:32.520 groundwater actually and heat it up with the high temperature 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:35.960 resource and then transport into town. It's about thirty kilometers. 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.440 The water loses about one to two degrees of heat 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:42.720 in that thirty hours, so that's it, and we delivered 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:45.520 to houses and recommenc in the capital area at around 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:48.640 eighty degrees celsius and that's what heat our homes. That's 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:51.920 also the hot potable water in the sinks. I noticed 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:54.320 it in my hotel room Iceland. I'd always heard about 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:57.080 it that in the winter everybody here, you know, has 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:00.400 their heating on but the windows open, And that was 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:01.800 how it was in my hotel room right when I 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:05.760 walked in. It's very cool. It is cool, but as 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.280 we progress as a as a world, we can't do 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.000 that forever. Even here in Iceland, we have plenty of resource, 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:14.040 but we're learning that we need to take care of 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.120 every drop. And I just had that conversation with an 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:18.280 old aunt of mine because she heard me saying that 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:20.680 this exact thing on the radio and she's like, but 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:23.800 hit a, what about what about like moisture? And we 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:25.120 have to we have to let it out. We have 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:26.679 to get fresh air. Was like, yes, but you can 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:28.920 turn down your radio. If you do that, you don't 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.880 have to have both blasting. But that's the culture and 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:33.360 that's what we have to change. I think all over 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:38.359 the world. Okay, yeah, energy efficiency and not wasting anywhere. Yeah. 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:41.000 I think a thing that we come across a lot 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:44.679 when talking about Iceland is yeah, but can we talk 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:46.960 about that for just a second. So like, yeah, this 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:50.120 works in Iceland, it works in Recovic, but this district 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:52.559 heating does it work elsewhere? It most certainly does. We've 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:56.520 shown that, for instance, in China. We had icelanders consultants 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:59.160 go to China. I can't remember ten years ago, fifteen 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:02.360 years ago, worked with the Chinese government, worked with Cinepec, 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:06.200 large energy company and geothermal district heating is now heating 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.000 I think two million homes in China and they're actually 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:13.800 utilizing temperatures way below what we're using, about fifty degrees celsius. Yeah. 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:17.440 What they're doing is they have better efficiency in their houses. 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:19.960 They're better than us. They don't open their windows, and 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:22.720 it really expanding fast and the government is is pushing 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:25.280 hard and so the next actually world Geothermal Congress will 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:28.680 be in China, and I think that just reflects the 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:32.040 enthusiasm there. We have district heating networks all over Europe 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:34.480 and they've been using other sources of energy for a 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:38.120 very long time and changing over to a new energy 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:41.079 so is always complicated. It was complicated here. It was 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:43.280 a political matter in nineteen thirty and it was a 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:46.560 political matter in nineteen forty three just before the World 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.719 War Two when we decided to expand. But what way 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:52.640 they were selling then is what we're still selling now 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:56.000 with the green transition. It was cleaner homes, cleaner skies 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:58.960 because we were heating our homes with fuel oil, with coal, 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:02.319 with pete. We have clouds of dark, cold smoke over 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:04.040 the city. You don't see that today, but it's a 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:07.280 very cold day. By the way, it's beautiful here today. 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:12.960 It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah, the forecast was rain all week 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:15.200 and I came prepped for it, but it's just blue 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:17.880 sky and wonderful. That's the thing with Iceland. You just 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:20.000 have to wait fifteen minutes and then weather changes. There 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:22.760 you go. It's kind of like London way. So let's 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:24.640 go back to point to So what I'm hearing so 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:28.280 far is that you know, doo thermals changing or has 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.640 a lot of potential to change, rather than you know, 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:34.760 just being a drill well really deep, hope and pray 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:37.000 you have a resource and pull up the fluid or 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:40.079 the steam. There's a lot of uses for the heat 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:44.280 whatever great it might be down below. Now, back when 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:46.880 I was a analyst looking more closely at this industry, 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:48.360 I worked a lot with the oil and gas companies. 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:50.760 About ten years ago. They were taking a good hard 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.400 look at this industry and a lot of them just 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:55.480 kind of passed said, you know what, now is not 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.959 the time you've mentioned their back again. Can you describe 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:01.080 a bit more of what they're doing and why. I 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:03.640 was talking to, for instance, Baker Hughes at the conference, 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:06.079 and they were saying that they've been serving geo thermal 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:09.520 the whole time, but in different different departments. Now they 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:12.600 brought the whole team together and they're focusing on what 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:15.320 they can do because they've realized they won't be doing 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:18.120 oil and gas forever. That's not the future. So where 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:20.960 are we going next? And geothermal is an obvious one 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:24.000 road for them, and they have the competencies, they have 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:26.280 people they want to do something that is good for 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:28.120 the planet. It's that's the same for I think for 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:31.000 people everywhere. You want to have that higher purpose and 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.920 geothermal gives you that because it's using the heat from 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.440 the earth to power the power our homes, and I 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.240 think that's what we're feeling. So we're seeing companies, big 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:43.520 companies like that, coming back in sponsoring conferences, taking part 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:45.760 in the research, taking some of the methods that they've 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:47.360 been using in oil and gas, and sort of how 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:49.360 how can we adopt them to geothermal, So listening to 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:52.160 the geothermal community but also coming in with their expertise. 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:54.280 And a couple have invested in it. But let's come 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:56.640 back to that in a minute. What I would want 0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:58.560 to get to is that, Okay, So so Baker, Hughes 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:01.160 and others that you mentioned, they're not doing this at 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:03.840 a charity or you know, the goodness of their hearts. 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:06.920 So there must be at least the glimmer of a 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:10.079 of a future growth market here, and I'm wondering kind 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:12.320 of what that might be. So just to put some 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:16.440 context around that, So the BENF New Energy Outlook or 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:20.520 NEO our outlook for energy. We've got wind and solar 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:23.160 and hydro well, actually wind and solar making up about 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:27.080 of capacity now, but about fifty for wind and solar 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:34.160 and for hydro about under one scenario. And then there's 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.560 a thirty percent, you know, sort of gap of other stuff. Batteries, 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.200 it could be ccs, you know, fossil fuels with ccs, 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:42.000 it could be nuclear, it could be a lot of things. 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:46.840 What role does geothermal play in that other Can it 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:48.920 take a big part of that pie or what what 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:51.520 can do there? I think it really can, And especially 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.280 in the heating and cooling capacity. I think that's our 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:57.640 lowest hanging fruit. It's the most spread out throughout the world. 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.480 There's so many countries that can actually utilize. Of countries 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:03.360 coming into directly used like the Netherlands. We never thought 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:06.040 of the Netherlands as a geothermal powerhouse, but they've been 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:09.440 really expanding their direct use for greenhouses. We have dict 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:12.880 heating around Paris, France, Munich, Germany is working on it. 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:16.480 There's a project up in Denmark. So those countries and 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:20.480 those regions that are focusing that have clear climate targets, 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:23.880 they will use geothermal direct use and many will use 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:27.080 electricity production as well. Yeah, those are not the places 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:28.800 that you would think of when you think geothermal, you 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:30.680 think volcanoes, right, Like, do you think anywhere with a 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:32.440 volcano is And that's why I used to tell people, 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.360 you know, geothermals anywhere that that's got a volcano basically, 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:37.080 But that's yeah, I guess not true anymore. There are 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:42.160 no volcanoes in Denmark or the Netherlands right right. So 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:46.560 the question is can geothermal power as we know it 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:49.520 play a role in the future energy mix? I think 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:51.800 it definitely can. We can see it in California, for instance, 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:56.080 there's RFPs specifically for geothermal. Yeah, what's an r request 0:15:56.160 --> 0:16:01.800 for proposals for power? And they're looking for geothermal specifically 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.400 or a base load power that can be up of 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.840 the time that's renewable. And there's not many technologies that 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:11.800 fit into that, but geothermal definitely does. And so in 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:16.080 those regions where we have the high temperature resource or 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.680 around hundred degrees, we will reproducing power with the resource, 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:22.360 there's no question. And it can play an important role 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:24.920 in those regions like it does here is of the 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:29.000 electricity production in Iceland. It will be in California and Nevada, 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:34.000 other countries around the world, Kenya big on geothermal, and Indonesia, 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:36.920 Philippines of course, all of those big countries. I would 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:39.360 to say geo thermal can be summed up by that 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:41.520 old song nice work if you can get it, you know, 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:43.720 if you have the resources, great, it's a it's a 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:47.440 really fantastic addition to your to your energy mix, and 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:48.880 it seems like we'll see more of that. But it's 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:52.200 also well we'll have Paul Thompson from ormat On on 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.680 the show talking about this as well, that it's a 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:59.600 cold potensially be really good for geothermal to promote its 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:03.960 benefit it as a baseload power right in the future, 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.119 we of course need all the solar and when we 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:09.320 can get but it is intermittent, we'll go into energy storage. 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:13.280 But when we have a resource right there that's baseload 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.719 in the ground just waiting to be tapped, and it's economical, 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:20.040 it's common sense, we're going to use it. Okay. So 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.520 the question is can geo thermal scale and then why? 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.640 But also we're getting at what it can be used for. 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:28.560 Some other things that came to mind though are okay, 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:32.680 so maybe even bitcoin mining or getting creative here, maybe 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.880 it could be hydrogen production. You mentioned hydrogen production briefly 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:37.159 the top can you can you talk about some of 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:40.800 the other uses that could be used for so definitely hydrogen, 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:44.159 either as to make it more flexible or just straight 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:48.199 on more flexible use and twenty four hour production. We 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.119 are doing bitcoin mining in Iceland to a thermal power, 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:53.959 so that's one of the yeah, yes we can do 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:56.800 that and first rounded power all kinds of things, and 0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.000 then direct the air capture. That's one of our customers. 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:03.399 They often need heat for their technologies. You're capturing CEO 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:05.760 two from the air, you might need to heat up 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:08.320 the medium or whatever you're doing to capture that. Direct 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.120 use is perfect for that. All kinds of industries, like 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:14.399 I know in New Zealand, milk powder production is a 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:17.920 big industry and there's drying involved with that. They're using 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:22.040 geothermal any kind of food production. We're producing algae up 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:24.199 at had to say they with our geothermal resource. They 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:27.159 use the energy, the hot water and the electricity. In 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:29.320 some cases you can use the CEO two from the 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:32.960 resource if it's pure enough. So all of these food production, 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:37.520 hydrogen production, bitcoin mining, and especially when you combine the 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:41.120 benefit of electricity and heat. So basically you're saying anything 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:44.000 that can use will either electricity or a low grade 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:46.760 industrial agricultural heat. Right, So it's not going to be 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:49.840 your your blast furnace, you know, but it will be 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:53.800 your your other process heat. Very interesting. Let's go back 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:57.040 to the oil and gas interest. So back in February, 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.760 Chevron Technology Ventures and BP Ventures put it, along with 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.320 ten A seconds some other investors, forty million into a 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:07.280 new technology being, you know, driven by a company called Eva, 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:11.040 which is called closed loop to your Thermal. So to me, 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:13.080 you know, I thought that was pretty cool. Can we 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:15.000 just talk about a little bit about what closed loop 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.160 to you? A thermal is kind of the concept. It's 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:20.320 a nazing idea, but it's exciting. Everywhere in the in 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:22.280 the world we have heat in the ground just depends 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:24.679 on how deep you go. So when we talk about 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:27.800 only high temperatures only where well canoes is, it's because 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:30.080 the heat is so high and we have fractured ground. 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:33.840 But closed loop is about drilling down, pumping the water 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:37.240 through the heated ground without sort of making your own 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:39.880 reservoir with In a closed loop though, so you you're 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:42.440 pumping it down one in one well and taking it 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:45.160 up another so it's it's a closed loop. Closed loop 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:47.840 to you a thermal. All of those ideas are really 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:52.000 exciting because they expand another expansion of the industry into 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:54.959 new frontiers and expands the geography of where it can 0:19:55.000 --> 0:20:00.000 be done and reduces the risk. Potentially it could because 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:03.920 there's one aspect for enhanced shield thermal systems, which is 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:07.040 also very exciting research going on, especially in the US 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:09.919 and other places, and enhanced gieldrmal resources can be you're 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:13.080 going deeper, you're going into magma, or you're creating your 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:15.880 own system somewhere where we don't have that fractured rock 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:19.000 and so you're you're fracturing the rock with pressures. But 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:22.520 with closed loop in theory, you could basically drill your 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:26.440 loop and so instead of fracturing and relying on pressures, 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:30.600