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Speaker 1: And she said, have you ever got a second opinion?

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Speaker 1: And I said, no, I've considered it. At that time,

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Speaker 1: I was trying to get them cut it off. I could

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Speaker 1: get it round, and you cut it off. I cut

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Speaker 1: your leg off. Yeah, it was blue. It wasn't getting circulation.

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Speaker 1: It had staff in it and nobody knew it, and

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Speaker 1: the hardware had the bone locked the wrong direction. My

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Speaker 1: foot was pointing straight to the right.

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Speaker 2: In Part one of the Donnie Baker story, we heard

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Speaker 2: the first hand account of the poaching of a two

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Speaker 2: hundred and four inch drop time Missouri whitetail on the

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Speaker 2: Fort Leonardwood Military base in central Missouri. In Part two,

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Speaker 2: we'll hear the rest of the story about the spring

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Speaker 2: of the coiled jaws of justice that finds in punishment.

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Speaker 2: I have no doubt that the severity of it will

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Speaker 2: surprise you. But after that we'll expand our vision to

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Speaker 2: a larger story of the decade following the event. Two

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Speaker 2: thousand and nine to twenty nineteen were a downward cascade,

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Speaker 2: rife with tragedy for Donnie and his family. Unrelated to wildlife,

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Speaker 2: crime and punishment, every headline that involves a human life

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Speaker 2: is easily minimized into a SoundBite or a myopic label

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Speaker 2: absence of context. And don't worry. This isn't a justification

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Speaker 2: of an egregious crime, but a zoom out to a

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Speaker 2: bigger story. Honestly, if this podcast was just about hunting

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Speaker 2: or history, we'd have stopped at episode one when Donnie

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Speaker 2: confessed to the crime, end of story. But as I

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Speaker 2: talked with him and saw his openness regarding his failure,

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Speaker 2: a larger question arose. Why was he so willing to

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Speaker 2: share a story That was a big question that I

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Speaker 2: had and I would be surprised at his answer, and

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Speaker 2: I think you will too. I hope this story helps

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Speaker 2: solidify in our hunting culture a deeper respect for wildlife,

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Speaker 2: wild places, and the law. I have zero tolerance for

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Speaker 2: deliberate law breaking, but this story really isn't about that.

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Speaker 2: It's about the human life behind every headline, and I

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Speaker 2: really doubt that you're gonna want to miss this one.

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Speaker 3: We get my truck on sixty three, coming from VISI.

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Speaker 3: I've known the road. Angela hasn't said a word.

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Speaker 1: We get almost the vienna and she just looks over

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Speaker 1: at me and says, I'll give my wedding dress money

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Speaker 1: and marry you on the Ballfield and Dixon if you'll

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Speaker 1: go back and get that dough.

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Speaker 2: My name is Clay Nukem, and this is the Bear

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Speaker 2: Grease podcast where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search

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Speaker 2: for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the

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Speaker 2: story of Americans who live their.

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Speaker 4: Lives close to the land.

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Speaker 2: Presented by f h F Gear, American made purpose built

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Speaker 2: hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged

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Speaker 2: as the place.

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Speaker 4: As we explore on the last episode of.

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Speaker 1: Bear Grease, through the rest of the summer, seen him,

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Speaker 1: I think six times, always in the same place with

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Speaker 1: that deer done. He lived in a little little block

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Speaker 1: of brush behind the dining facility. I never seen it

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Speaker 1: in a legal hunting area. The first time I seen him,

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Speaker 1: I was one hundred p cent suries two hundred inch deer,

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Speaker 1: which I'd never seen a while deer with two hundred

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Speaker 1: inch and still at that time wanted to kill this deer.

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Speaker 1: Right October fourth of nine, and as I'm driving down

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Speaker 1: Army Street, I looked to my left and he's standing

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Speaker 1: where I've seen him two or three times, and I thought,

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Speaker 1: good grief, So I pulled down to those porta potties,

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Speaker 1: and I thought, right, I thought I could kill it

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Speaker 1: deer right there. So I draw my bow back and

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Speaker 1: he's still just standing there. I mean, he's looking right

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Speaker 1: at me. I know that if I can fall it

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Speaker 1: into his front end, high success rate killing him. And

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Speaker 1: I put that pen right underneath his nose, just right

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Speaker 1: about the top of his white.

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Speaker 3: Patch and turn it loose.

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Speaker 1: And like I said, it was just kind of I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you ever when you was a kid

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Speaker 1: shot at a bird on a tree, setting in a

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Speaker 1: tree or something, just kind of and then when you

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Speaker 1: do kill, you think, oh, man, that's kind of what I.

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Speaker 3: Went through there.

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Speaker 1: And immediately I thought there's no way that I'm going

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Speaker 1: to get away with this.

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Speaker 5: Good evening. The crime was shocking, the verdict dramatic. The

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Speaker 5: trial of O. J. Simpson is over. He is not guilty.

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Speaker 5: Correspondent Bill Whitaker begins our coverage of the day's events. Here, Simpson,

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Speaker 5: would you please stand and face the jury in a.

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Speaker 6: Matter of the people of the State of California versus

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Speaker 6: Oorenthal James Simpson, Case number B A zero nine seven

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Speaker 6: two one one. We the jury and the embuffding title

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Speaker 6: action find the defendant Orenthal Simpson not guilty of a

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Speaker 6: crime of murder in violation of penal cult Section one

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Speaker 6: eighty seven a a felony upon Nicole Brownson.

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Speaker 2: As a society, we're very interested in the juncture of

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Speaker 2: where crime and punishment meet. Were interested in the delivery

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Speaker 2: of justice, whether extreme or lenient, were all ears. The

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Speaker 2: oj Simpson verdict in nineteen ninety five was one of

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Speaker 2: the most watched television clips in American history, and at

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Speaker 2: the end of episode one of the Donnie Baker story,

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Speaker 2: Donnie was in a room on Fort Leonard Wood, surrounded

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Speaker 2: by multiple game wardens, a polyograph man, and an expert

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Speaker 2: on determining the time of death who was brought in

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Speaker 2: to analyze a photo of the dead buck that was

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Speaker 2: posted online. In a way, this was the jury who

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Speaker 2: met to deliver Donnie his sentence if he was willing.

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Speaker 4: To settle outside of court.

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Speaker 2: We ended episode one with Donnie confessing to killing the

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Speaker 2: buck in a contonement area not open to hunting, then

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Speaker 2: sneaking the buck off the base in Mary's County and

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Speaker 2: falsifying that he'd killed the buck in Pulaski County. We're

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Speaker 2: going to go slightly backward to just before the confession.

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Speaker 2: Let's jump right in with Donnie, and very quickly we'll

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Speaker 2: hear what the punishment was.

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Speaker 1: Brace yourself right out of the gate. Aaron said, I

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Speaker 1: don't believe you killed that deer anywhere, but right here,

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Speaker 1: you know, just straightforward, which I respect him to be

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Speaker 1: that kind of person. In case he just kept turning none,

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Speaker 1: you're caught. We got pictures of it on Fort Larner.

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Speaker 1: Would they knew exactly how many miles it was from

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Speaker 1: where that deer picture was to where I had claimed

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Speaker 1: to have killed that deer.

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Speaker 3: I mean, they had enough evidence.

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Speaker 4: And they no way the deer could have traveled that far.

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Speaker 1: No, it had to swim the Gasconade River in miles

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Speaker 1: to different county. And I thought, I have to I

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Speaker 1: have to stick it. If somebody had been with me

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Speaker 1: or seeing me, if a car would have pulled in

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Speaker 1: there and seen me eleven or something, I knew i'd

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Speaker 1: have meant. But I don't think you body see anything

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Speaker 1: other than the blood on the tail gate, and it

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Speaker 1: hadn't come up, so I knew that that was or

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Speaker 1: figured that that was in.

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Speaker 3: So they write the ticket out.

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Speaker 1: They told me they was going to confiscate the deer

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Speaker 1: and I would have to plead it in court, well,

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Speaker 1: going through the gates of Fort Learn with federal installation.

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Speaker 1: When you're in question, you're more guilty than tell you're

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Speaker 1: proven innocent. It's a privilege to work and hunt out there,

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Speaker 1: it's not you know, they don't owe you. So they said,

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Speaker 1: here's the deal. We know you killed that deer here,

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Speaker 1: and we can tell you're.

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Speaker 3: Going to fight.

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Speaker 1: What our ticket will be. It's one hundred and fourteen

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Speaker 1: dollars falsifying TeleCheck ticket.

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Speaker 3: That means that you.

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Speaker 1: Didn't do anything wrong other than checking it into the

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Speaker 1: wrong county, which means that we'll confiscate that deer. But Donnie,

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Speaker 1: you can you can go to work tomorrow, you can

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Speaker 1: go hunt out here tomorrow. But we know that deer

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Speaker 1: is illegal, and this is the ticket that we're going

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Speaker 1: to give you and that'll be the end of it.

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Speaker 1: We don't want to fight this forever. I said, So

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Speaker 1: if I played guilty this, it's one hundred and fourteen dollars,

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Speaker 1: you're taking the deer. And they said yeah, And I said,

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Speaker 1: I can hunt fish fort Land Woodn't bow Yes, And

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Speaker 1: I said, I did, and I told them the whole story.

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Speaker 1: The antlers I'd put in my uncle's house. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'd had some people tell me that they'll steal them

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Speaker 1: and everything and people find out where they're at. So,

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Speaker 1: knowing that I was going to be out of town,

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Speaker 1: it's late at night. It's ten thirty before I finally

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Speaker 1: got out of there, and they said, all right, go.

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Speaker 3: Get those antlers. And I said, those are.

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Speaker 1: In my uncle will be in bed, They're in his basement.

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Speaker 1: And I hadn't he didn't know the real story either.

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Speaker 1: I said, I'm not going to do anything. They said, listen,

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Speaker 1: if you break those antlers or do something with them,

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Speaker 1: we're going to charge you again for whatever. In Casey said,

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Speaker 1: what time do you want to meet? And we set

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Speaker 1: up a date in the early afternoon, and he said

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Speaker 1: that's fine, and he told the other agents. He said,

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Speaker 1: he said he's going to do that, don't worry about it.

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Speaker 1: And Casey showed up and then he just he took

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Speaker 1: the antlers, and I felt like it was a relief,

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Speaker 1: other than having to tell all the people in the

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Speaker 1: area that I'd like to. Of course, news had already

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Speaker 1: traveled in that day almost as fast as the deer.

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Speaker 1: Of course, the stories were just out of control. They

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Speaker 1: told that I'd spotlighted off the roof of the hospital

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Speaker 1: with a rifle, and it was insane the stuff that

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Speaker 1: was told. But behind the scenes, somebody took a picture

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Speaker 1: of that deer and put it on the Internet, and

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Speaker 1: it was called Mary's County Monster, because that's the county

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Speaker 1: that I checked it in.

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Speaker 3: It was actually killing Blaska County for learning one.

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Speaker 1: And that page had gained a lot of traction, especially

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Speaker 1: since one of the agents put that they'd recovered the deer,

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Speaker 1: what have you. They didn't bash me on there, but

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Speaker 1: everybody else in the world.

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Speaker 3: Did you know?

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Speaker 1: There was stuff on there saying that I was a

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Speaker 1: prior convicted fella, and people claimed to see me have

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Speaker 1: done stuff that I've never done, which was a lot

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Speaker 1: of noise around the agents and Fort Lender would So

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Speaker 1: a week or so went by.

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Speaker 3: I went in one morning.

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Speaker 1: When I opened up my email, the lead officer at

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Speaker 1: Fortland woud Bill Force had emailed me the night before

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Speaker 1: and said, hey, when you get in, email me or

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Speaker 1: call me at this number.

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Speaker 2: Remember Donnie worked on Fort Leonard Wood as the archery

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Speaker 2: pro at the fort owned bow shop, so he had

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Speaker 2: to go on to the base every day.

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Speaker 1: So I called him and so he come out there

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Speaker 1: and I don't want to misspeak of where the paper

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Speaker 1: were come from, but I paid one hundred and fourteen

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Speaker 1: dollars fine, which is the finalization.

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Speaker 3: I guess I've admitting the gil. And as soon as

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Speaker 3: I'd done that, the.

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Speaker 1: MPs had barred me from Fort Leondarwood for life and

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Speaker 1: my hunting privileges were evoked. And I said, well, Bill,

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Speaker 1: you said that I am. He said, well, this hasn't

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Speaker 1: anything to do with the conservation.

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Speaker 3: This is the MPs.

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Speaker 1: So I had through Christmas, my job through Christmas, and

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Speaker 1: it's right out of November now, and truthfully, me being

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Speaker 1: a civilian, they didn't want to see me. They didn't

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Speaker 1: care about it.

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Speaker 3: Deer.

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Speaker 1: You know, if I'd done something enough to getting that

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Speaker 1: much trouble over deer and good luck pretty well. I

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Speaker 1: talked to multiple people, tried to talk to state representatives,

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Speaker 1: and I wasn't trying to get my hunting privileges back

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Speaker 1: at all. I just wanted to keep the job. He's

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Speaker 1: a phenomenal job. I didn't realize that until I realized

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Speaker 1: it's going to be taken away. So I was contacted

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Speaker 1: by somebody in the military and said, you can't lose

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Speaker 1: your job over this because you weren't at work and

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Speaker 1: it didn't put another person's life in danger. So I

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Speaker 1: tried to go that direction and they said, well, no,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to lose your job, but when MP's

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Speaker 1: borrow you from Fort Lenderwood you can't come to work,

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Speaker 1: then you do.

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Speaker 2: It's pretty easy to see what happened here, as multiple

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Speaker 2: agencies overlapped in jurisdiction. A person could be torn because

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Speaker 2: it sounds like he was misled to get the confession.

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Speaker 2: But you can't justify a feeling bad for someone being

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Speaker 2: misled when they themselves were the ones who started the line.

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Speaker 2: He fought the law and the law won. But it's

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Speaker 2: just interesting to see how it.

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Speaker 4: All went down.

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Speaker 2: But what we haven't talked about yet is the giant

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Speaker 2: white mast don in the room. Mastadons are even more

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Speaker 2: glaring than elephants, and that's the one hundred and fourteen dollars. Fine,

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Speaker 2: I'm hearing this story for the first time. As I'm

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Speaker 2: sitting across from Donnie in his home. I figured he

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Speaker 2: was going to tell me they find him twenty grand,

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Speaker 2: took away his truck and put him in jail for

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Speaker 2: thirty days. I had to ask Donnie what he thought

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Speaker 2: about the fine, the punishment that you got being one

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Speaker 2: hundred and fourteen dollars ticket.

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Speaker 3: If that's what the world would see.

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Speaker 2: They wouldn't see that you lost your job and affected

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Speaker 2: your life and all this stuff down the road. They

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Speaker 2: would see you killed this tutorach deer and got a

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Speaker 2: one hundred and fourteen dollars ticket and would say that

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Speaker 2: it was like massively unjust. I would agree, Why did

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Speaker 2: you get off so easy in terms of actual fines

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Speaker 2: and jail.

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Speaker 3: And all that. I think I got off that easy.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that if I'd shot it with again in

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Speaker 1: bo season, or spotlighted and shot it or anything like that,

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Speaker 1: it would have been completely different.

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Speaker 2: So you think the fact that you killed it with

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Speaker 2: a bow during an open season in the state like

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Speaker 2: there was some factors.

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Speaker 3: That made it. I think that made a huge difference.

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Speaker 2: If you heard of a guy killing a tutor ince

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Speaker 2: deer like that, would you want them to get a

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Speaker 2: bigger punishment other than.

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Speaker 1: One hundred and fourteen dollars ticket. Oh, if it was

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Speaker 1: somewhere I was hunting, I'd.

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Speaker 3: Be frustrated as heck, yeah, no doubt.

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Speaker 1: I mean you couldn't say, yeah, if I was hunting

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Speaker 1: a world class deer and somebody shot it.

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Speaker 3: Illegally, I would be fit to be tight.

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Speaker 1: And then if they got one hundred and fourteen dollars

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Speaker 1: ticket and that was it, I really would have been Matt.

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Speaker 2: This took place fourteen years ago, and I'm convinced in

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Speaker 2: modern times the punishment would have been much more severe.

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Speaker 2: In most states today, there is a poacher's trophy fee,

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Speaker 2: where larger animals bring higher fines, often charged by the

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Speaker 2: inch of antler. I had someone in law enforcement contact me,

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Speaker 2: completely unconnected from Donnie's case, just a listener, speculating that

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Speaker 2: they really didn't have that much hard evidence against Donnie

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Speaker 2: and wanted to make it easy for him to confess

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Speaker 2: because they might have a difficult time convicting him in court.

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Speaker 2: Hard evidence could be video of a bloody tailgate as

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Speaker 2: Donnie left the base that night, or an eyewitnessed who

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Speaker 2: saw him load the deer in his truck. To my knowledge,

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Speaker 2: the only evidence they had was the picture of the

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Speaker 2: buck on Fort Leonard Wood, But I'm completely speculating. I

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Speaker 2: don't know what evidence they had, and for transparency's sake,

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Speaker 2: i'll let you know that I did contact the Missouri

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Speaker 2: Department of Conservation hoping to talk with the officers who

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Speaker 2: worked the case, but it just wasn't possible, which I

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Speaker 2: completely respect. I was graciously contacted by a high level

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Speaker 2: official in the department who answered multiple questions for me,

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Speaker 2: and I was very grateful for that. I've always been

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Speaker 2: impressed by the Missouri Department of Conservation. The trend of

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Speaker 2: the hunting world is moving away from culturally glamorizing wildlife violators.

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Speaker 2: I'm not talking about hunting media glad glamorizing them.

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Speaker 4: That would be rare. I'm talking about.

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Speaker 2: Behind closed doors, around campfires and in family circles.

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Speaker 4: I am exposed to a lot.

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Speaker 2: Of the hunting community in a ton of different places,

303
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Speaker 2: and I'm amazed in twenty twenty four what my ears

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Speaker 2: here and how laxed people can be towards adherence to

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Speaker 2: the law and how they handle it even in conversations,

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Speaker 2: and those are the things that build culture, and I

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Speaker 2: hope that in no way the work that I'm doing

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Speaker 2: here could be portrayed as such. And I think it

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00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,240
Speaker 2: would be a stretch to say it was. I'm telling

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Speaker 2: this story because we can learn a lot from it.

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Speaker 2: I'm interested in human stories that overlap wild places. Some

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Speaker 2: are positive, some are negative. I'm interested too, in the

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Speaker 2: hunting community banding together to preserve wildlife, wild places and

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Speaker 2: our right to hunt, and this demand strict adherence to

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Speaker 2: the law. I'm also for stricter punishment for wildlife violators,

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Speaker 2: especially repeat offenders. Let's get back into our story. Here's

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Speaker 2: more from Donnie on the aftermath of the confession. And

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Speaker 2: remember we're getting to the question of why was Donnie

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Speaker 2: willing to talk to me?

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Speaker 1: And people everything you could imagine. I had people come

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Speaker 1: in to work at that time telling me how no

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Speaker 1: good I was, and they hoped that I'd never get back.

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Speaker 3: And then other guys come and say, Manny and by

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Speaker 3: shot that deer. You know, So it was all over

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Speaker 3: the place.

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Speaker 1: But I'm still watching this page, and that's what that

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Speaker 1: wasn't a good thing for me to do. It started

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Speaker 1: getting depressed already, and I mean I hadn't even lost

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Speaker 1: my job quite yet, but there was a lot of

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Speaker 1: hate out there. I mean, people can really really say

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Speaker 1: some mean stuff. I'm sure you being what you are there.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing What people say, what did you learn from this? Well,

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Speaker 1: it's a I'll always say, and I said before and

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Speaker 1: I'll say after. I really believe that that hunters are

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Speaker 1: the most greedy group of people there is. If it's

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Speaker 1: a goblin turkey, or a good buck, or just even

337
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Speaker 1: a a good loaded white oak acren tree. I learned

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Speaker 1: not to claim, you know those deer, those those aren't ours,

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Speaker 1: and just to do it. What I learned was and

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Speaker 1: what if I didn't kill that deer like that? What

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Speaker 1: if November first that that buck run a dough but

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Speaker 1: I mean I killed it right, you know, or anybody else?

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Speaker 1: You know, what if a thirteen year old kid killed

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Speaker 1: that deer with both you know, that'd been pretty amazing.

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Speaker 1: Or if nobody killed it? What was that buck bred

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Speaker 1: fifteen dough in his life? You know, good high quality

347
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Speaker 1: do and what would be there now?

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Speaker 3: And it was?

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Speaker 1: It was a black guy that I still carry today.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can talk to three people in Fort

351
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Speaker 1: Lendwood right now. Somebody tell you some type of story

352
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Speaker 1: about that deer.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: The issue is the main issue is I knew better

355
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Speaker 1: but not only did I know better. I explained to

356
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Speaker 1: people that come on Fort Leonard would where you can

357
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Speaker 1: and can't hunt? I knew and almost still do today.

358
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Speaker 1: Some of that stuff changed, but I knew to the

359
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Speaker 1: foot of where you were allowed to hunt. There was

360
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Speaker 1: no excuse about any of that. I knew for a

361
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Speaker 1: fact that that deer not only couldn't be killed there,

362
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:06,040
Speaker 1: he was going to have to be a quarter of

363
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Speaker 1: a mile from there before you could hunt him. Right,

364
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Speaker 1: something about just actually know when he was a two

365
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Speaker 1: hundred inch deer, and just thinking for some reason that

366
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Speaker 1: that was going to be my right of passage to

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Speaker 1: be the guy known as a as a good hunter.

368
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Speaker 3: So, I mean, I guess that would just be ego?

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Speaker 3: Is that right?

370
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Speaker 1: It happened, I mean, that's to be the only thing

371
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Speaker 1: good men. Yeah, had to be me thinking about me,

372
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Speaker 1: and not that I was not wanting anybody yet.

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Speaker 3: Well, I guess I was.

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Speaker 1: I was worried that somebody else was gonna kill that deer. Yeah,

375
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Speaker 1: you know, And and that was a rough way to

376
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Speaker 1: learn something like that. But I'm one of the least

377
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Speaker 1: jealous people about deer that I know. You know today, yes, today,

378
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Speaker 1: At that time, I didn't realize how jealous I was

379
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Speaker 1: about that until it hit me in the face.

380
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Speaker 2: You know, let's just take a minute and let all

381
00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,760
Speaker 2: that settle in. Donnie paid the fine, lost his job,

382
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:02,240
Speaker 2: and his reputation was tarnished by the crime. Donnie's saying

383
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,399
Speaker 2: that hunters are the most jealous people on planet Earth

384
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,600
Speaker 2: hurts me down deep in the gizzard. I view the

385
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:13,440
Speaker 2: hunting community through rose colored glasses. Sometimes not all are jealous.

386
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:14,840
Speaker 4: The people can be.

387
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,919
Speaker 2: It's our job in modern times to change that in

388
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Speaker 2: our culture. In the last episode, we explored what as

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Speaker 2: a society that we expect or demand of people who

390
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:29,360
Speaker 2: mess up, and in short, we learned that a sincere apology,

391
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:33,440
Speaker 2: rife with remorse and compelling evidence that the person wouldn't

392
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:38,320
Speaker 2: do it again, goes a long way justifying actions. Blame

393
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,919
Speaker 2: shifting or lack of humility are sniffed out quickly like

394
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:47,800
Speaker 2: an unseen but potent pheromone. I have another question for Donnie.

395
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Speaker 2: So in the Hunt, you're familiar enough with the hunting community.

396
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Speaker 2: We've all heard you've heard stories of guy's killing an

397
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Speaker 2: animal illegally. Yeah, what's the first thing you think when

398
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,040
Speaker 2: you hear about a guy killing a deer, And I

399
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Speaker 2: mean this goes without saying.

400
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:09,760
Speaker 3: I mean what you did was more than just like.

401
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,600
Speaker 2: It wasn't like you messed up and did something on accident,

402
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,040
Speaker 2: like this was an egregious thing.

403
00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:18,440
Speaker 3: You made a choice to do. It was blatant. I mean,

404
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 3: there was no question.

405
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,960
Speaker 2: So when you hear a story of such and such

406
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Speaker 2: a guy killing the deer illegally, what do you think?

407
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:29,639
Speaker 1: I probably look at it a little different than a

408
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Speaker 1: lot of people. I'm the last one to bash them.

409
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,920
Speaker 1: I would think there's always two sides to something. And

410
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:37,440
Speaker 1: like the buck that I kill, if I wanted to

411
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,520
Speaker 1: proach it, I could have killed it many times before that.

412
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,359
Speaker 1: I'd been way better off to have went full out

413
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Speaker 1: illegal and staged a place, prepared myself to kill it

414
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 1: illegal instead of it just happening. But I still still

415
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,520
Speaker 1: despise somebody killing fifteen turkeys in a season. I'm not

416
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Speaker 1: gonna lie it makes me mad, or or everybody in

417
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 1: their household getting a buck tag and then feel one

418
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 1: guy feeling his whole family's deer tax. I'm still a

419
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 1: hardcore against that. Noise have been and I'll be vocal

420
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Speaker 1: about being against killing a bunch of deer a bunch,

421
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Speaker 1: and I got kids that like to hunt, and nieces

422
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,720
Speaker 1: and nephews, and I'm against that one hundred percent. But

423
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 1: sometimes when when you see where somebody's got a deer

424
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Speaker 1: removed and they find out that they shot it in

425
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,640
Speaker 1: national force with rifle out the window, most people would

426
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 1: say that that no good.

427
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:26,119
Speaker 3: Whatever.

428
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Speaker 1: The first thing I think of was was he planning?

429
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 1: Did he go out there with intent on driving around

430
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:33,640
Speaker 1: killing that deer? Or did it walk across the road

431
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,159
Speaker 1: and he'd hunted six days and hadn't seen anything and

432
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 1: jumped and shot it. Do you think do you think

433
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 1: that makes a difference from what I went You mean

434
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Speaker 1: it being illegal?

435
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 4: Well, I think.

436
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 2: Because you're you're I see exactly what you're saying is

437
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 2: that intent is important or it's not important, Like if

438
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,439
Speaker 2: you break the law, you break the law. But intent

439
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,439
Speaker 2: shows motivation. And what I'm hearing you say is that

440
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,880
Speaker 2: you didn't really have an intent to kill this deer,

441
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 2: just an opportunity happened and somehow you cross that line

442
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,919
Speaker 2: real quick. Yeah, knowingly though, yeah, no, only I always

443
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 2: look at it thinking that he or she go out

444
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 2: there with one hundred percent intent of.

445
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,200
Speaker 1: Spotlighting that deer. I feel like that's worse as far

446
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 1: as the law is concerned. It isn't illegal, is illegal.

447
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 1: Sometimes we can get excited, man, it's something we all love.

448
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,919
Speaker 1: That's why you're here. We're passionate about hunting and the outdoors,

449
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 1: and sometimes sometimes our passion makes us do some stupid stuff.

450
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 2: Donnie isn't using legal terminology, but he's right. Intent does

451
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 2: matter in the law and sentencing, and the research data

452
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:51,400
Speaker 2: intent is correlated with recidivism, meaning a person who commits

453
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 2: a premeditated crime is more likely to do it again

454
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 2: as compared to someone who acted on impulse.

455
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 4: Now that doesn't give some I want a.

456
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 2: License or justification to be weak and vulnerable to temptation.

457
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,199
Speaker 2: You may be able to cheat the law, but you

458
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 2: can't cheat the system. Things earned the right way, beget

459
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 2: the intangible things that comprise our character. I think there's

460
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 2: incredible honor in doing the right thing when nobody's watching.

461
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 4: Incredible honor.

462
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 2: Now we're going to transition out of crime and punishment,

463
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 2: and I'm going to ask the question I've been wanting

464
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 2: answered this whole time. Why are you so open to

465
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 2: telling this story to the world.

466
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 1: Well, a few things that put a I skipped a

467
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 1: lot that was pretty financially hard on my family. I

468
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,360
Speaker 1: had a lot of family step in and then I've

469
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 1: been through way worse than that deer. I thought that

470
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: was as bad as it could get that deer, having

471
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 1: this world class deer taken away, just thought that I

472
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: was as down as.

473
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 3: A person can get. Right. I lost that John.

474
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,360
Speaker 1: I was known as a as an outlaw, still am

475
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: a little bit today.

476
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 2: I was surprised by his answer of why he was

477
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 2: willing to talk. He'd been through way worse, he said,

478
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 2: But I didn't really understand what he meant by that.

479
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,400
Speaker 2: Life is calibrated by a perspective, and perspective comes from

480
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 2: our past. What we've lived through helps us respond to difficulty.

481
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 2: The rest of his story isn't connected to him killing

482
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 2: the deer, at least in any rational or natural pathway.

483
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 2: But in Donnie's first correspondence with me, he told me

484
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 2: his life began to unravel after he killed the buck.

485
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 2: But strangely, it seemed that he viewed the unraveling as connected.

486
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 2: In a person's life, it's hard to separate out isolated incidents.

487
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,199
Speaker 2: Events and time congeal into a glob for me, a

488
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:06,479
Speaker 2: singular journey, a coherent, unparsable, connected scene with incidents linked

489
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 2: by cause and effect. If you do this, then this

490
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,959
Speaker 2: will happen. We feel safe by having a philosophy that

491
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 2: garners guaranteed and predictable flow of events if certain rules

492
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 2: are followed. However, the older I've gotten, I've learned that

493
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:30,239
Speaker 2: this isn't always true. Life often throws wild cards that

494
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 2: are not earned by merit. When my wife and I

495
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 2: got married, we jokingly said the mission of our marriage

496
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 2: was to answer the question of why do bad things

497
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 2: happen to good people. It was a joke, but it

498
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 2: revealed a deep held philosophical position of many Americans and

499
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 2: probably people across the world. Good things happen to good people,

500
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 2: and bad things happen to bad people.

501
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 4: It's complex because.

502
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 2: Some things in life do elicit immediate recompense of good

503
00:25:59,160 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 2: or bad fruit.

504
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 4: That seems just.

505
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 2: But other times life seems unfair, either in the direction

506
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 2: of the prosperity of the wicked or the punishment of

507
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,159
Speaker 2: the righteous. It's one of the great mysteries of life.

508
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 2: These things are on my mind as I hear the

509
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 2: rest of Donnie's story on December twenty ninth, two thousand

510
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 2: and nine, just two months after his confession, something terrible happened.

511
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:27,959
Speaker 3: Here's Donnie.

512
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,360
Speaker 1: Twenty ninth of December, A cousin of mine, Luke Fritchie,

513
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: and my wife, which she was choosing as my fiance

514
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: at the time, went rabbit hunting up towards Tipton Up

515
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: and there we hunted the morning. Was on our way

516
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 1: back and a guy I know that owns an excavator

517
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: company called and.

518
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 3: Said, Hey, are you looking for work? And I said,

519
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 3: I definitely am right now.

520
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'll get back out there, but

521
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: I need to do something like starting Monday. So I

522
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: put them dogs up and dropped my wife and my

523
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: cousin Lucas off. I headed to towards that guy's place,

524
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: which was in Hey, Missouri, and I hit a slick

525
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: spot right past the MM Highway on twenty eight. Wasn't

526
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: running very fast driving an old jeep and lost it

527
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: will run off in the gravel, and about the time

528
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 1: I got it straightened up, I hit an oak tree

529
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: head on by running forty five mile an hour and

530
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,959
Speaker 1: not didn't slow down any And when I hit that

531
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: tree and just the ringing in the car and the

532
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: steam rolling. I thought, good grief at first, zero pain,

533
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: and I still had my overalls and hunting boots and

534
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: stuff on. And it was the actual hood light from

535
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: the hood being smashed in had come on and the

536
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 1: steam rolling from the radiotor. I thought that thing was

537
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: catching on fire. It looking flames, so I started to

538
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: get out of it. When I stepped out on the ground,

539
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: I just fell in the snow and I had a

540
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 1: cordion fractured. My femur or butterfly broke a big chunk

541
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,959
Speaker 1: of it in the middle come out, and it was

542
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 1: it was way off to the side of me in

543
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 1: those overalls, and I grabbed that leg and slid back

544
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 1: over straight.

545
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 3: But I didn't feel the pain at all.

546
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: Ambulance gets there and the first thing they did was

547
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 1: go to cut these new overalls off of me, and

548
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: I said, don't cut them overalls. So I fought with

549
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: them for a while. When they went to try to

550
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: take them off, I said, no, go ahead and cut them.

551
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: So they trimmed all my overalls and my boots and

552
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: stuff off of me. They rushed me to Rawla. I

553
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 1: lost nine units of that. I guess that bone had

554
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: cut a major artery in there. I passed out multiple

555
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: times going to the hospital. They tied something on the

556
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: end of my foot to keep that bone from moving

557
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: cutting around there, so it's almost like a kettlebell tight

558
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: on the end of your toes. With that, that was

559
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 1: the most pain I've ever felt my life. Go around

560
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: a corner that they could swing to one side then

561
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 1: the other, and I mean I'd wake back up it.

562
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 3: I was passing out. So when we get there, it was.

563
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: Emergency surgery and they go in and I guess it

564
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: was more dangerous than I realized.

565
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 3: I was just thinking it was a broke leg. Anyway,

566
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 3: they set.

567
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: That bone back and it didn't set right. That started

568
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: a whole new battle. It took thirteen surgeries to get

569
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: that thing back right, with tearing acl redoing the meniscus,

570
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,719
Speaker 1: and all my tendons in my navy busted a time

571
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: or two. How long is this after you were convicted

572
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: of killing this deer right at the first of November?

573
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 3: Was when I was just weeks after. Yeah, he killed

574
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 3: this deer, yet this terrible car rock.

575
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm getting pretty down and out by now,

576
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: and here I am in a wheelchair now can't walk.

577
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: Every time I get a minute alone, I open up

578
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: that stupid web page and read about how terrible a

579
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: person I am, and uh, it got me in a

580
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: dark spot. And did I had good family around me,

581
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: you know, most of them forgave me, coming in, checking

582
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: on me and what have you. But it was mentally

583
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: a very, very tough time. One guy wrote on there

584
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: that when they put it, I'd been a a I mean,

585
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: they were putting my life on this on this web

586
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: page of Mary's County monster couple. One guy on there

587
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: said he gets everything he deserves. And you know, and

588
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: those guys, some of them, some of them knew who

589
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: they were, but some of them didn't know me. They're

590
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: just just aggravated at me for killing this deer that

591
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: they probably had a chance of kill her they were watching.

592
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 3: You know, that deer got a lot of traction.

593
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: You know, if it had been one hundred and ten

594
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: inch eight point well I wouldn't have done that, but

595
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: but it wouldn't have got that traction. Everybody in the

596
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: state was all about that deer and other states. One

597
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: of my nurses in Columbia knew who I was, said

598
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: her kid had a picture of me and that deer,

599
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: you know. And then she didn't know the rest of

600
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: the story.

601
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 3: I told her I had family bring We had only

602
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 3: wood heat in that house. I had. I had multiple

603
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 3: family members bringing loads of wood.

604
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 5: You know.

605
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: I couldn't cut anything. My dad was trying to work

606
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: in his old shop, his coldest winter we'd had in

607
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: a long time. And it was just it just getting

608
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: me down. I mean it really was. And about six

609
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: months in I got murcia infection in that bone and

610
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: all kinds of issues. And that doctor told me he said,

611
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: probably never walk again without an aid. And I was like,

612
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: this isn't broken the lake. People break their legs every day, huh.

613
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: And it was actually set wrong and just by coincidence.

614
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: August seventh, we had a a softball tournament and a

615
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: guy I went to school with wife comes walking up

616
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: to me.

617
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 3: I didn't know her.

618
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: Her name's Kelly Alexander and she said, how long have

619
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: you been fighting that leg? And I had been over

620
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: a year, and she said, have you ever got a

621
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,239
Speaker 1: second opinion? And I said, no, I've considered it. At

622
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: that time, I was trying to get him cut it off.

623
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: I could get a run and you cut it off.

624
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 3: I backed your leg off.

625
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was blue, it wasn't getting circulation, it had

626
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: staff in it and nobody knew it, and the hardware

627
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: had the bone locked around direction.

628
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 3: My foot was pointed straight to the right.

629
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 1: And she said, I worked for a doctor in Columbia orthopedics,

630
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: and she said, I would love if you'd come have

631
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: him look at that leg. And like the following Monday,

632
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: she had me appointment a very hard doctor to get

633
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: into and I mean, he's super intelligent guy.

634
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 3: And I brought my paperwork with me.

635
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: Was leaned up against crutches standing there because it hurt

636
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: bad to sit down and write anywhere. And I'll never forget.

637
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: They'd done a few X rays and went out and

638
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: he came back in. He said sit down. I said, oh,

639
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: I feel bettering. He said, I need you to sit down.

640
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: That bone's not even touching and he said we're gonna

641
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: have surgery this afternoon, and he started redoing the leg.

642
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I play a little ball now like Hunds

643
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: hoar as I want to, and the fixed you he did. Yeah,

644
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: just just blessing of you know this girl. I didn't

645
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: even really know.

646
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 3: Kelly.

647
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: Alexander just said, I know where a good doctor is,

648
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: you know, And I'm not blaming the first doctor. I

649
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: think I was bleeding out when they put it together.

650
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: I'm sure it was.

651
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 3: A chaotic spot. Yeah, it's just just how it goes.

652
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: But then when I got back on my feet, that

653
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: started the happening to go start apologizing to people, and

654
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: that was almost as hard as lying to him, knowing

655
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: that you've done wrong and having to face them.

656
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 2: You know, it's hard to imagine in Middle America in

657
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 2: modern times, that fixing a broken leg could go so wrong.

658
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 2: Did you hear him say that he was trying to

659
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,719
Speaker 2: get them to cut his leg off? A dark cloud

660
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 2: seemed to descend over Donnie's life. He became depressed. Times

661
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 2: were hard. It's wild that the boldness and concern of

662
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 2: a stranger at a ballgame would change Donnie's life, as

663
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 2: this lady helped him get an appointment with the doctor

664
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 2: that fixed him the very afternoon of the appointment. But

665
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 2: this was just the beginning. This next section will introduce

666
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 2: us to a name we've heard a few times, Angela,

667
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: who was at the time Donnie's fiance. This next story

668
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 2: does a great job of painting a picture of their relationship,

669
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 2: but don't forget that dark cloud.

670
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: While I was crippled up. We've raised field Trout beagles

671
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 1: for a long time UKC Beagles, and we've had a

672
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: couple of good ones. My wife and I were playing

673
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: on getting married in August, and she'd saved up money

674
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: for a dress, and I mean we rubbing pennies raising

675
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: two boys. It was tough, and she'd saved money for

676
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: a year for a dress, and we had pretty well

677
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: everything picked up. Of course, I wasn't helping it all.

678
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: I'm sitting in a chair with my with my leg

679
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 1: all wrapped up. I'm one hundred and thirty pounds. I

680
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: was two hundred and ten pound, a pretty big guy

681
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 1: when I had this accident. She had to carry me

682
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,320
Speaker 1: to the bathtub and back out. I mean, it was

683
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: just like take care of a feeld little man. And

684
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: Angela and my dad were still running kind of in

685
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 1: the Points serieses of these UKC hunts. We were going

686
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: and I would show a dog once in a while,

687
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: but me and the boys would stay in the clubhouse

688
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: and hang out. We were at a hunt down South

689
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: and Amona come walking and she said, did you see

690
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 1: this dog tied up out here and I said no,

691
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: and she said, come look at this dogs. I'd get

692
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: up and cripple out there, and it was the prettiest

693
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 1: biggel I've ever seen, big old bold muscled up, I mean,

694
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: had more muscle.

695
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 3: Than being livers in your life. And she said, I

696
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 3: want that dog, and I said, we can't afford that dog.

697
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 3: There's no telling it.

698
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: So when he gets in and she makes him go

699
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: out there and show her the dog, and they talk

700
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: about you.

701
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 3: My wife's was crazy over beagles.

702
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: Some people. I've heard more than one person say when

703
00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: I die, I wanted to come back as one of

704
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: Angela Vicker's biggles. I mean, you know, they got dessert

705
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: and everything. So she told him we were interested in

706
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: getting that dog, and I had an idea what that

707
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 1: dog it costs, and we couldn't afford it no way.

708
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: A month or so goes by and he calls me

709
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,879
Speaker 1: at my house. He goes, hey, I'm thinking about selling

710
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: that dog.

711
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 3: So we went over there Sunday even and hit a

712
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 3: little side beside.

713
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: He got me in, we went out, he cut I

714
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 1: brought a couple of dogs with me and he cut

715
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 1: them out and there was nothing.

716
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 3: The dog done that was wrong and had him a

717
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 3: huge mouth.

718
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: It sounded like a person screaming what when he ran it,

719
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: which is kind of something. You want to be able

720
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: to strike your dog, if it's a good dog, you

721
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: want it to be distinct from the other one so

722
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 1: other people can't strike their dog on yours. We ran

723
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: for a couple hours and we get back and load

724
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: everything up, getting ready to leave, and he priced.

725
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 3: The dog, and I thought, good grief.

726
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 1: So we get my truck on sixty three coming from

727
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 1: Visu and I've done the road.

728
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 3: Angela has in said a word.

729
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 1: So we get almost the vienna and she just looks

730
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 1: over at me and says, I'll give my wedding dress

731
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: money and marry you on the ball field and Dixon

732
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: if you'll go back and get that dog. Turned that

733
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: truck over, turned around sixty three, went back and bought

734
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: the dog. And he was a huge blessing, just that himself.

735
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 1: So she won Nationals a couple of times with him,

736
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: multiple state hunts and shows. We just lost him last year.

737
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: He was fifteen years old. That dog brought us really close.

738
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 3: Comparing it on when we were young. You know, I

739
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 3: had a couple of boys.

740
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: Everything was fine, we loved hunt and fish, but that

741
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: dog give us something to do big time together. So

742
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: after him we end up purchasing another pup that turned

743
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: out to be amazing, and at one time we had

744
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 1: the top two dogs in this area points and hunt wise,

745
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 1: field trial is what she loved. She loves competition. We

746
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: played a lot of softball together. She just you could

747
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: feel trial with the boys, take them with you. We Ohio,

748
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: Indiana all over. That was something that was such a

749
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: blessing to us. So, like I said, I thought that

750
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 1: that really beat me down. So with the field trial island,

751
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,919
Speaker 1: Angela and I had done everything together. I still bow

752
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 1: hunted a lot, done things like that, but we ran

753
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: dogs two or three days a week and every weekend

754
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: for a few years. And then in May May of

755
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,399
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, we were building this running pin up here

756
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: and my dad got to have in pain and he

757
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,439
Speaker 1: had massive heart attack right above the wheelmaker. His heart

758
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: still works today just over thirty percent. So already that

759
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: deer that the issues of that deer didn't mean as much.

760
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: But at the end of twenty fifteen, Angela started having

761
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 1: issues with their stomach and not feeling good, losing weight

762
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: and in March of sixteen, she was diagnosed with stage

763
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: four cancer. But honestly, I mean it was scary. If

764
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: you knew her, you'd understand. She was in the middle

765
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: of CrossFit. They were trying to get her to compete

766
00:37:54,880 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 1: at the time. Strong not female strong strong is anybody

767
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: her size tough as she could be. I mean she

768
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: packed water buckets with me. I mean we were just

769
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: like two buddies. Really, that's what That's what made us close.

770
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:10,760
Speaker 3: She could be and she was a beautiful person.

771
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 1: But she could wear car heart jeans and ston't brush

772
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: pologies like anybody, and which is probably what attracted me

773
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,879
Speaker 1: her most. You know, she played on my men's softball team,

774
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: you know, just But in sixteen, twenty sixteen, they give

775
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: her eighteen months to live with treatment twelve to eighteen months.

776
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 1: And honestly, it was scary, but it didn't It just

777
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: she just wanted them. I thought, man, if he mightn't be,

778
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: to be her.

779
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 3: And she took.

780
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, she took twenty chemo treatments and forty eight radiation treatments.

781
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 2: Angela's stage four cancer came as a complete surprise. The

782
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 2: dark cloud had materialized overhead again, only in her late twenties.

783
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 2: She was a beautiful lady, the picture of health and fitness.

784
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 2: It's hard to imagine the shock of such a diagnosis.

785
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 2: After she received the maximum amount of radiation and chemotherapy treatments,

786
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 2: the doctors sent her home saying there was nothing more

787
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 2: they could do and gave her twelve to eighteen months

788
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: to live. At this point, Donnie and Angela began to

789
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,839
Speaker 2: research non traditional methods of cancer treatment. I struggled from

790
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 2: an editorial perspective whether to include this, as it's just

791
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 2: really personal, But in the end, it's Donnie and his

792
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 2: family's story that's part of their journey through this dark

793
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 2: decade from two thousand and nine to twenty nineteen. And

794
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 2: Donnie included this in his story, so I did in

795
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 2: this one too.

796
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,959
Speaker 1: So she found a show called Cancer Can Be Killed,

797
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 1: and it was about natural you know, and not. He

798
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 1: was actually explaining not to blame the doctors. That's Western medicine,

799
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,359
Speaker 1: how they're taught. But cancer the United States goes round

800
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: because of cancer all the way to our newspapers and

801
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: everything all trickled down money from Camp Street, and so

802
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: we went to Florida.

803
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:09,320
Speaker 3: She went to Florida for six weeks.

804
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: We didn't tell her doctor because he said, if you go,

805
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 1: don't don't come back here because by the time you

806
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: get back, he'll be out of control.

807
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 3: And he's good dude. I'm not.

808
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: I'm not saying, but he really believed it would be

809
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 1: and we went to She went to Florida for six weeks.

810
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 3: My sister set up I tenerate for every like five days.

811
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: She would have some family member fly down there to

812
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: hang out with her for three or four days and

813
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 1: come back. Flew the boys myself down there, and I

814
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: could tell when I got there, Clay, it was like

815
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 1: on week four, I believe we hadn't seen her from of.

816
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 3: Course, the boys were excited to see them.

817
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: She had just settled into this place like she'd lived

818
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: there a whole life, knew all the side streets, and

819
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: we went to the beach, but she was laughing, running

820
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 1: playing with kids. I could tell something was different. And

821
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: when we got back, when she got back after six

822
00:40:58,040 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: weeks of that, she was cancer free.

823
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 3: I mean, well, I take that we didn't tell him.

824
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: They went in to do her bi monthly cat scan

825
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 1: and the last time she had outspots all in her

826
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: bone and everything, and it'd spread, and of course she'd

827
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:13,919
Speaker 1: lived a long time after they said that she would.

828
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 1: And when they got done with the cat scan, they

829
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: come in they said, something's not rabber. We have to

830
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: do that again, and she said, how come, he said,

831
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 1: I it just it didn't show anything. So they took

832
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 1: her back again and cat's canned her again. And when

833
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: they come back out, he said, whatever you're doing, continue

834
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: on it. And she was cancer free. It was a

835
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: very strict diet. She could eat like three things, zero

836
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: sugar ever again. And it was hard to do, you know,

837
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 1: I mean not couldn't eat anything on the road, had

838
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: to pack your mills for everything, and it was almost unfeasible,

839
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 1: it was, it was. And then heat tank every day.

840
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: You got to get your body cor up to I

841
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: think over one hundred and three degrees. Cancer can't live

842
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: it's so high. And it was just and she she

843
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: stayed on track with that for for a long time.

844
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 2: Angela would stay cancer free for just under one year,

845
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 2: and during that time she had no chemo irradiation and

846
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:14,760
Speaker 2: was already alive past the original projected time. The doctors

847
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 2: told her she'd live, but the remission didn't last.

848
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 1: And then August of nineteen it come back, and that

849
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: time it come back with a vengeance. And I could

850
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: tell when it come back it was a different thing,

851
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: and it was stage lived stage four both times. But

852
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: when it come back, you could see it sapped the

853
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,399
Speaker 1: power out of her and she fought it a long time.

854
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: But you know, we had these two boys, and my dad,

855
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: my sister and mom. Everybody done what they could. But

856
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: our little town, like a lot of little towns, has

857
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: drug problems, and it has issues like all towns do,

858
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 1: I'm sure, but Clay, this community was unbelievable. How they

859
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,479
Speaker 1: come together for us when it come back second time.

860
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 1: I was still trying to work the boys multiple sports,

861
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: and my sister stayed with us quite a bit through

862
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: the night so I could try to sleep at night.

863
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 1: I don't know how where she was sleeping that ever,

864
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 1: But day after day for months longer than that, for

865
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 1: over a year, we had dinner delivered here from just

866
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 1: somebody else, I mean, just our community and my family's

867
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 1: amazing and uh going through that and uh watching watching

868
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 1: how it affected with myself, my dad and sister and

869
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: my boys, especially that deer kind of started taking a

870
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 1: back burner on me. Feeling pity for myself. It just,

871
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,919
Speaker 1: uh what I thought when I thought I was down

872
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 1: and out and everything was gloomy, it was over a deer.

873
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,399
Speaker 1: And but watching her fight for her life like that

874
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 1: made me realize it was just a deer. But that's

875
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: why I'm open about it. Clay to say, in that

876
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 1: second round of cancer, I was playing a lot of

877
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: ball and stuff when I killed that deer. And I

878
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: wasn't a drug riddled alcoholic or anything. But I was

879
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 1: raised in church and I knew when I was doing

880
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: right and when I was doing wrong and playing a

881
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,720
Speaker 1: lot of ball, drying a lot of beer, being routy

882
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 1: with kids at home, you know, and doing things that

883
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: that I shouldn't.

884
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 5: Uh.

885
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 1: My wife's faith never wavered one ounce. And as the

886
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: man of the house, I should be the leader, and

887
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: I wasn't.

888
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 3: My wife was.

889
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: And as she faded, I started realizing that's that's what

890
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to be.

891
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 3: But she could.

892
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: She passed the twenty fifth of May of twenty twenty

893
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 1: after a terrible fight, and the last thing she said

894
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: to me was I'm ready to go home.

895
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 3: Yeah. It was tough, but the time I had with her,

896
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 3: I really cherished.

897
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 2: I can't thank you enough for listening to Bear Grease.

898
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 2: I hope you've enjoyed and learned something from the Donnie

899
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 2: Baker story. None of us are without fault, including Donnie,

900
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 2: but he's one of us, an American woodsman and hunter,

901
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 2: and a derned good one at that. Just the story

902
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 2: we chose to tell of his overlap with the wild

903
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 2: was one of his worst moments. After episode one, I

904
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 2: was concerned that the world would make Donnie pay again

905
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 2: for killing that buck, and I compensated for that by

906
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 2: asking the listener to be sympathetic. And after the episode,

907
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 2: Donnie reported back to me that he'd received almost one

908
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 2: hundred percent positive feedback, which I was really glad to hear.

909
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 2: But most importantly, I think now he can fully just

910
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 2: put all this behind him. I'm grateful for compelling stories,

911
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 2: positive and negative, and I look forward to telling many

912
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 2: more in twenty twenty four. It means the world to

913
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 2: Brent and I that you guys listen to our podcasts,

914
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 2: and I really look forward to talking to everybody on

915
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 2: the Render next week about this episode two. And Hey,

916
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 2: I want to thank you all for the support of

917
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 2: the launch of Steve Ranella and I's audio original, The

918
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 2: Long Hunters. So far it has been a big success

919
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 2: as it stood number one on the Apple Audio Books

920
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 2: and reach number four on Audible, which is big for

921
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 2: us and Hey. As another announcement, on March ninth, twenty

922
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 2: twenty four, if you want to come say hi to

923
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,800
Speaker 2: Brent and I all day will be at the Black

924
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 2: Bear Bonanza in Bentonville, Arkansas. It's an incredible event, big time,

925
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 2: big day. Google it and hope to see you there.

926
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 2: Have a great week.