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Speaker 1: There are No Girls on the Internet.

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Speaker 2: As a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative, I'm Bridget

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Speaker 2: Toad and this is there are no girls on the Internet.

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Speaker 2: So now that it's the holiday season, we know that

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Speaker 2: means gift giving. And I had kind of a big

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Speaker 2: shock when I was talking to the tween girl in

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Speaker 2: my life, my little cousin, and I asked her what

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Speaker 2: are some things that she might want for the holidays

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Speaker 2: as a gift. She's rattling off all of these normal

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Speaker 2: age appropriate things, and then she said one of the

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Speaker 2: things that she wanted was a seventy dollars thing of

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Speaker 2: drunk elephant peptide face cream. It's not just the price,

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Speaker 2: although seventy dollars for a face cream for an eleven

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Speaker 2: year old.

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Speaker 1: Is a bit much.

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Speaker 2: It's also that it's a peptide face cream. If you

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Speaker 2: don't know, peptides are meant to give your skin more elasticity,

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Speaker 2: but your skin loses as you age. It's not really

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Speaker 2: the kind of thing an eleven year old wouldever need

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Speaker 2: for their skin.

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Speaker 1: They're for skin like mine.

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Speaker 2: So this left me thinking, when did tweens and very

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Speaker 2: young people start feeling what they needed or wanted, you know,

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Speaker 2: complicated multi step skincare design to combat things like wrinkles.

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Speaker 2: This is absolutely a thing now and social media is

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Speaker 2: to blame, but if you ask me, maybe not on

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Speaker 2: the way that you're thinking.

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Speaker 1: Let's get into it. So this trend actually has a name.

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Speaker 2: Young people who have been influenced by platforms like TikTok

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Speaker 2: and Instagram to be obsessed with skincare are known as

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Speaker 2: Sephora kids. And there are a lot of Sephora kids

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Speaker 2: out there because younger folks are into skincare right now.

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Speaker 1: Here are some stats.

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Speaker 2: Households with tweens aged six to twelve spent almost two

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Speaker 2: point five billion dollars on facial skincare last year, an

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Speaker 2: annual spending increase of twenty seven percent, more than double

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Speaker 2: the average. Writer Alexandra Damar wrote about this for The

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Speaker 2: New York Times and a piece called Toxic Beauty Standards

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Speaker 2: can be passed down. She writes about how one of

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Speaker 2: her friends, who is in the fashion industry, told her

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Speaker 2: that in her local mother's group chat, nearly every single

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Speaker 2: mom had skincare skincare skincare as the top thing on

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Speaker 2: the holiday list they were given by their fifth graders.

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Speaker 1: Her ten year old.

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Speaker 2: Daughter does not even have access to social media, but

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Speaker 2: she says that she's exposed to the skincare obsession through

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Speaker 2: friends who are copying TikTok beauty influencers and whose parents

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Speaker 2: are buying these products for them, things like acids, peels,

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Speaker 2: and toners, even though many of these products are just

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Speaker 2: not meant for their skin. They're meant for aging skin

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Speaker 2: or acne prone skin, not the kind of perfect skin

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Speaker 2: that somebody who was ten or eleven probably has. There

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Speaker 2: was even this entire thing a couple of months ago

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Speaker 2: where adults were filming kids going into sephoras and Alta

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Speaker 2: beauty stores and sort of running wild, stocking up on

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Speaker 2: expensive products. I felt like that entire trend had a

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Speaker 2: little bit of a darker undercurrent to this discourse. First

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Speaker 2: of all, just in general, adults should not be out

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Speaker 2: there filming kids on their phone, just full stop, end

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Speaker 2: of sentence. But I also picked up this kind of

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Speaker 2: undercurrent of I don't know, this feeling of being a

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Speaker 2: bit territorial, like, hey, why are these youth muscling in

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Speaker 2: on the sephora, which should be territory for grown women?

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Speaker 1: But where do you think these kids.

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Speaker 2: Are learning about how to obsess over skincare. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's one of those things like an after school special.

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Speaker 2: I learned it from watching you. Kids are coming of

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Speaker 2: age on the Internet, the same Internet that we adults

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Speaker 2: are using, and that is where this skincare obsession is

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Speaker 2: stemming from. Now, it probably doesn't surprise you to find

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Speaker 2: out that social media is part of what is fueling

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Speaker 2: this youth desire for a complicated, multi step skincare routine.

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Speaker 1: But you don't have to take my word for it.

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Speaker 2: There is a documented link between young people obsessing over

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Speaker 2: their skincare and social media use, according to Psychology Today.

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Speaker 2: A twenty eighteen study by cha j found pressure to

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Speaker 2: conform to beauty standards increases the likelihood of engaging in

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Speaker 2: skincare routines. Influencers promote products promising clear skin, driving teams

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Speaker 2: to purchase them and achieve similar results, and their use

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Speaker 2: of social media to fuel these concerns about their skin

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Speaker 2: and skincare does come with negative impacts. A study from

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Speaker 2: Tickerman and Slater found that exposure to idealized images on

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Speaker 2: social media can negatively affect body image, particularly for young

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Speaker 2: women and girls. Clear glowing skin has become a symbol

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Speaker 2: of beauty and confidence. But when teens don't meet those

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Speaker 2: idealized standards, especially when it comes to acne, they may

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Speaker 2: feel inadequate, which can lower self worth. Skincare routines often

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Speaker 2: marketed as confidence boosting, can have the opposite effect when

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Speaker 2: teens don't see immediate results or experience breakouts, The pressure

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Speaker 2: to achieve perfect skin can actually worsen insecurities. And lastly,

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Speaker 2: you know how easy it is to conflate skincare with

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Speaker 2: self care more generally, where you feel like, if you

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Speaker 2: spend a bunch of money on skincare products, you can

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Speaker 2: actually convince yourself that you're taking good care of yourself

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Speaker 2: if you're me anyway. Yeah, so that dynamic definitely got me,

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Speaker 2: even at my big age and youth are not immune

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Speaker 2: to it either, because a survey from twenty twenty one

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Speaker 2: found that fifty eight percent of teens see skincare as

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Speaker 2: an important form of s self care, and many are

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Speaker 2: turning to it to manage stress or boost their mood.

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Speaker 2: In the earlier days of the pandemic, many teens use

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Speaker 2: skincare to feel more in control and reduce their anxiety,

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Speaker 2: which now that is not inherently a bad thing, But

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Speaker 2: skincare is just not the same thing as self care

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Speaker 2: or control. And buying a bunch of pricey products to

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Speaker 2: do a ten step skincare routine to get glowing glass

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Speaker 2: skin is not really the same thing as self care.

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Speaker 2: And I do think this is something that youth are

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Speaker 2: really getting from us adults, like we're passing down some

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Speaker 2: not great attitudes and ideas about what self care really

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Speaker 2: is and what it looks like. I agree that some

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Speaker 2: of this really took root in those early pandemic days

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Speaker 2: when we are all just trying to do whatever to cope.

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Speaker 2: The New Yorker's Gia Tolentino really breaks it down well.

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Speaker 2: She writes the Sephora tweens, for their part, seem to

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Speaker 2: be borrowing some of the self care language that was

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Speaker 2: dominant in the adult beauty world two presidential election cycles ago.

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Speaker 2: According to this line of thinking, taking care of your

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Speaker 2: face is a way to luxuriate in personal pleasure and

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Speaker 2: exert control over your life. But adults have largely moved

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Speaker 2: on from all that. No one is fooling anyone by

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Speaker 2: quoting Audrey Lord in blog posts about lip balm anymore,

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Speaker 2: The earnest language of corporate approved wellness disappeared from the

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Speaker 2: mainstream somewhere around twenty twenty, along with the figure of

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Speaker 2: the girl boss, who often relied on that language. The

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Speaker 2: mood regarding beauty and also culture, politics and whatever it

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Speaker 2: is we're all doing is raw, pragmatic, aggressive. The deference

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Speaker 2: to root material reality comes a lot faster these days,

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Speaker 2: so I absolutely agree with this. You know, most adults

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Speaker 2: are not talking about skin care as wellness or self

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Speaker 2: care anymore.

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Speaker 1: By now, most of us.

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Speaker 2: Can pretty clearly see the ways that that was pretty

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Speaker 2: obviously and quickly co opted by brands on corporations to

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Speaker 2: just get us to buy more crap and keep feeling bad.

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Speaker 2: So I think we kind of moved on from that

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Speaker 2: around the same time that people decided to move on

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Speaker 2: from the pandemic, but it still has this lasting, lingering

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Speaker 2: cultural impact for youth, and I just think it's important

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Speaker 2: to ask, what are the dynamics that we have been

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Speaker 2: fostering in our youth and are they actually serving our

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Speaker 2: youth or just setting them up for more unhealthy, toxic

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Speaker 2: standards mass tess care because they deserve so much better

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Speaker 2: we all do.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break at our back.

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Speaker 2: So all these studies about youth and skincare are kind

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Speaker 2: of just telling us what we already know, because all

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Speaker 2: you need to do is scroll TikTok or physically go

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Speaker 2: into an altar or a Sephora to see what I'm

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Speaker 2: talking about. But we can't talk about Sephora Kids without

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Speaker 2: talking about the brand Drunk Elephant. The pricey butt worth

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Speaker 2: it lux brand Drunk Elephant is one of the top

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Speaker 2: brands tweens say they want. Ariana yap Tenko at Glamour

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Speaker 2: Magazines at a poll around their offices and found that

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Speaker 2: the staffers who had daughters, nieces and younger cousins were

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Speaker 2: basically obsessed with this brand. Parents flooded Instagram with questions

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Speaker 2: about the safety of ingredients like peptides, acids, and retinols

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Speaker 2: on youthful skin. On TikTok, the hashtag kids at Sephora

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Speaker 2: has more than five million views featuring videos of Drunk

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Speaker 2: Elephant kids wreaking havoc on test you products in the stores.

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Speaker 2: So social media is definitely a big part of what's

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Speaker 2: going on here. But some of this isn't new, right

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Speaker 2: because when I was between decades ago, I also loved skincare.

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Speaker 2: I mean I almost feel like care is not the

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Speaker 2: right word here. It was more like skin punishment. If

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Speaker 2: you live through that era, you know exactly what I'm

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Speaker 2: talking about. My routine was that I would wash my

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Speaker 2: face with that facial cleanser that had those little scrubbing

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Speaker 2: microbeads in them, remember those, to like exfoliate your skin.

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Speaker 2: Not only did it completely rip up your skin and

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Speaker 2: tear it apart, I can only assume I'm still carrying

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Speaker 2: those microplastic beads in my blood as we speak decades later.

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Speaker 2: Then I would use sea breeze as like a stringent

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Speaker 2: or a toner, which if you use sea breeze, I

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Speaker 2: feel like you can probably smell how it smelled as

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Speaker 2: we speak. So I would soak a cotton ball in

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Speaker 2: sea breeze and just rub this burning acid all over

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Speaker 2: my face. Maybe I would finish it off with one

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Speaker 2: of those stride x or oxypads across my face too,

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Speaker 2: just to.

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Speaker 1: Make sure it was nice and dried out.

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Speaker 2: You know, you really want to just like dry out

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Speaker 2: your skin by putting a bunch of alcohol just right

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Speaker 2: on there. For some reason, I think I also used

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Speaker 2: to put toothpaste on my pimples.

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Speaker 1: I don't know where I heard that.

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Speaker 2: I think somebody in my school said that you were

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Speaker 2: supposed to do that, so that's what I did. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: what I'm saying is that it was a rough time

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Speaker 2: for bridget skin.

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Speaker 1: But here was the thing.

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Speaker 2: I was just picking these things up at the drug

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Speaker 2: store or the grocery store or my parents would take me.

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Speaker 2: They were not seventy dollars a pop. And as rough

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Speaker 2: as this routine was on my skin, I wasn't doing

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Speaker 2: any real lasting damage. Because there is a reason why

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Speaker 2: skincare that is designed for more mature skin is different

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Speaker 2: than the skincare an eleven year old should be using.

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Speaker 2: The kind of active chemical ingredients in skincare design for

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Speaker 2: mature skin. Things like acids and retinol and glycolic acid

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Speaker 2: can be very bad for the sensitive.

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Speaker 1: Skin of a young person.

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Speaker 2: But even beyond the fact that these products are not

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Speaker 2: designed for children, an eleven year old does not have wrinkles,

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Speaker 2: or crow's feet or smile lines. So when a product

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Speaker 2: aimed at preventing these kinds of things is on the

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Speaker 2: very top of an eleven year old's holiday gift wish list,

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Speaker 2: what is really going on. So there is a ton

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Speaker 2: of criticism of brands like drunk Elephant that they might

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Speaker 2: be intentionally marketing their products to kids when these products

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Speaker 2: are not met for kids, and they are not even

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Speaker 2: really safe for kids to be using. Tiffany Masterson, the

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Speaker 2: founder of drunk Elephant, has even addressed this directly. She

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Speaker 2: told The New York Times, I designed drunk Elephant for

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Speaker 2: all skin, including that of my own children, and the

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Speaker 2: majority of our skin, hair and body products are appropriate

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Speaker 2: for and combatible with skin of all ages. This is

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Speaker 2: backed by clinical data. Based on the number of questions

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Speaker 2: we've received on this topic, I created an Instagram post

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Speaker 2: with recommendations of what is safe for prepubescent skin under thirteen.

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Speaker 2: We do not recommend children under thirteen use acids like

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Speaker 2: retinol or vitamin C. The detractors are referring to products

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Speaker 2: that contain acids, and rightly so kids and tweens don't

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Speaker 2: need acids. If you have concerns, we recommend consulting a

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Speaker 2: pediatrician or pediatric dermatologist before introducing new products into your

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Speaker 2: child's routine. So they also addressed criticism that they intentionally

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Speaker 2: market their products to kids she says, I've been reading

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Speaker 2: that I chose the colors and packaging to target children.

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Speaker 2: This couldn't be further from the truth, and the truth

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Speaker 2: is never quite as interesting. But I chose the colors

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Speaker 2: and packaging because it happened to be my aesthetic. I

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Speaker 2: actually never even considered targeting any demographic, and that's what

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Speaker 2: made my brand so different from the start. So on

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Speaker 2: that point, I don't know if I fully agree. I

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Speaker 2: actually think, if anybody, she was trying to target millennials,

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Speaker 2: because her packaging is these pastel pinks and turquoises and

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Speaker 2: blues that really speak to the sort.

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Speaker 1: Of millennial aesthetic.

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Speaker 2: I also just don't know that she is that bent

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Speaker 2: out of shape about the fact that her products are

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Speaker 2: very popular with children and they're like hot pink colored, right.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that it was an intentional choice, but

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Speaker 2: I don't think that they're crying any tears over the

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Speaker 2: fact that it's what made their brand so popular is

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Speaker 2: this youth demographic. So I kind of have to push

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Speaker 2: back a little bit on what she's saying here. But

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Speaker 2: if she's taken at her word and these are not

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Speaker 2: products that she's intentionally marketing to kids, why do kids

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Speaker 2: end up with luck skincare like drunk elephant on their

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Speaker 2: holiday wish list? So I actually think there's a kind

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Speaker 2: of cultural collapse happening online that is responsible for this.

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Speaker 2: Here's my theory on what I think is going on. So, yes,

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Speaker 2: I do think this is just standard social media causing

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Speaker 2: kids to want things that really are not for them,

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Speaker 2: and you know, youth just generally wanting to feel older

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Speaker 2: than they are, which is a totally normal young person

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Speaker 2: thing that we all went through. I went through that

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Speaker 2: you went through. That is a thing that young people do.

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Speaker 2: But I also think something else is going on here too.

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Speaker 2: I think it's the lack of digital third spaces for

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Speaker 2: use online. The same TikTok that I go to when

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Speaker 2: I want advice on how to use retinol without causing

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Speaker 2: irritation on my skin is the exact same TikTok that

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Speaker 2: my eleven year old cousin is using.

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Speaker 1: So if you're an eleven year old who's into beauty.

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Speaker 2: And skincare as a hobby, which there's something wrong with that,

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Speaker 2: there's not really an age appropriate space for you to

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Speaker 2: go to explore what skincare should look like for somebody

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Speaker 2: your own age, let alone a place where you're not

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Speaker 2: being constantly sold a product. When you consider how ubiquitous

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Speaker 2: things like TikTok shop have become, and I think it

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Speaker 2: really comes down to kids needing their own corners of

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Speaker 2: the Internet for exploration, because when they don't get that,

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Speaker 2: they end up being shaped by the same Internet experience

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Speaker 2: as me, a grown adult woman. But the thing is,

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Speaker 2: I'm an adult, so I have the ability to understand

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Speaker 2: and see that like TikTok skincare influencers might be using

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Speaker 2: filters or lighting to make their skin look glassy and

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Speaker 2: perfect to get me to buy skincare that they then

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Speaker 2: might get a finance cut off, Like, I'm old enough

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Speaker 2: to understand and see all the machinations at play, even

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Speaker 2: though it doesn't always save me from buying skincare i'll

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Speaker 2: ever use. And for youth, it's like that insecurity is

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Speaker 2: being further monetized and cashed in on. So that's what

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Speaker 2: I think is actually going on here. But what happens

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Speaker 2: when your kid gives you their holiday wish list and

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Speaker 2: it has these expensive skincare items that they don't really

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Speaker 2: need on it, Like, what are you meant to do

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Speaker 2: as a parent? Well one, I think education is a

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Speaker 2: huge part of it, and so for a stores now

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Speaker 2: say they're doing a much bigger push around in store

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Speaker 2: education of young consumers and what their skin actually needs. Now,

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Speaker 2: maybe kids are not going to be swayed by this.

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Speaker 2: If the cool girls at school are all using seventy

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Speaker 2: dollars peptide cream for their not existent wrinkles, they're probably

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Speaker 2: still going to want it. But helping them understand that

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Speaker 2: at a young age, what their skin really only needs

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Speaker 2: is like a gentle cleanser, a moisturizer on a sunscreen,

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Speaker 2: and that anything else might actually be making their skin worse.

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Speaker 2: But if your kid wants fancy skin care because they

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Speaker 2: have an actual skin issue, you should be talking to

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Speaker 2: a professional dermatologist or doctor. That's another thing about the

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Speaker 2: skincare hobby experience on the Internet. I am on subreddits

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Speaker 2: like skincare addict on Reddit, where everybody is diagnosing other

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Speaker 2: people's skin.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: People will send in pictures of a skin issue and

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Speaker 2: ask what they should be buying or what they should

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Speaker 2: be doing to fix it. Now, generally it's pretty humdrum

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Speaker 2: stuff like dry skin, but sometimes people will have a

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Speaker 2: picture of like a pretty gnarly looking skin infection and

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Speaker 2: the only answer should be talk to a doctor. So

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Speaker 2: you have adults asking another non doctor adults to address

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Speaker 2: what sometimes is like a medical issue. That's not a

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Speaker 2: dynamic that is always great for adults, you know, we

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Speaker 2: navigate it. However, it's certainly not a dynamic that kids

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Speaker 2: should be mixed up in online. And I also think

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Speaker 2: it's more of a media literacy conversation. You know, we

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Speaker 2: should be talking to the youth in our lives about

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Speaker 2: how influencers, maybe you are not always being honest about

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Speaker 2: the impact different products have had on their skin, and

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Speaker 2: how they might also be making money off of us

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Speaker 2: clicking by. More generally, I think it's about having conversations

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Speaker 2: about who you should trust on the Internet and the

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Speaker 2: importance of independently verifying health information from the random people

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Speaker 2: that they see online. This is especially true for youth

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Speaker 2: because research is very clear that more and more youth

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Speaker 2: see influencers as their friends, and so if they have

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Speaker 2: a parasocial relationship with a skincare influencer on TikTok, they're

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Speaker 2: not going to see this as somebody who gets a

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Speaker 2: cut if you hit by. They're going to see this

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Speaker 2: as my friend is recommended I use the skincare product.

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Speaker 2: So that level of media literacy I think is very important, especially.

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Speaker 1: For youth online.

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Speaker 2: But beyond all that, I also think there is this

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Speaker 2: need for a deeper examination of what it is we

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Speaker 2: are all passing down to our youth, what attitudes, what concerns,

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Speaker 2: what cultures we are passing down, because I worry that

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Speaker 2: we might be passing down some toxic attitudes without even

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Speaker 2: really realizing that our youth youth is being impacted by this,

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Speaker 2: Like are we as adults obsessing about our skin and

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Speaker 2: our wrinkles and our age in these ways that signal

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Speaker 2: to youth that the normal process of aging is something

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Speaker 2: to be afraid of, to be concerned about, rather than

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Speaker 2: to celebrate.

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Speaker 1: There was this video where I think a twenty eight

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Speaker 1: year old woman posted a video of.

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Speaker 2: Her face and she was like, this is my face

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Speaker 2: without botox or filter or makeup, Like, this is what

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Speaker 2: somebody in their late twenties look like. She looked completely

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Speaker 2: normal and regular and fine, just a regular person's face,

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Speaker 2: nothing weird about it. So either the comment, it was

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Speaker 2: like a couple of sets of comments. One was like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, so brave, so brave to like have

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Speaker 2: a human face and show it on this Internet in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, which you know, definitely I think that's

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Speaker 2: well meaning, but I don't like living in a world

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Speaker 2: where it's just brave to exist on the Internet with

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Speaker 2: a human face without a filter on it or without

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Speaker 2: botox in it.

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Speaker 1: So didn't love that. But also you had younger people

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Speaker 1: being like, this is.

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Speaker 2: Why I use retinol even though I'm fifteen, Like, I

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Speaker 2: don't want to look like this. This is so said, YadA, YadA, YadA,

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Speaker 2: And it just made me wonder if kids and young

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Speaker 2: people have been so tricked by social media filters that

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Speaker 2: they no longer know what a human person's face looks like.

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Speaker 2: I do think that social media makes it harder to

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Speaker 2: have a good sense of what people look like as

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Speaker 2: they age, and listen, take it from me. Aging is

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Speaker 2: a gift. Not everybody gets to get to the age

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Speaker 2: where they get to have wrinkles and smile lines, and

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Speaker 2: if you get to get there, it's a good thing.

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Speaker 1: It's something to be celebrated.

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Speaker 2: There's no shame in wanting to have smooth, clear skin,

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Speaker 2: but we shouldn't be demonizing the normal process of aging

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Speaker 2: in the process either, And so maybe it's not surprising

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Speaker 2: that the holiday season, you know, this time of sky

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Speaker 2: high expectations and unreasonable demands, it is also a time

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Speaker 2: when harmful beauty ideals can really thrive and spread through

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Speaker 2: the heads of young people, like the whispers of sugar plumberries.

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Speaker 2: All that to say, however, the bottom bottom line is

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Speaker 2: that you should not spend seventy dollars on skincare for

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Speaker 2: an eleven year old. I will not be spending seventy

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Speaker 2: dollars on skincare for an eleven year old. If you

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Speaker 2: are my cousin listening to this, I love you dearly.

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Speaker 2: You know you're my girl, but you're not getting that

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Speaker 2: skincare kick another gift, got a story about an interesting

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Speaker 2: thing in tech. I just want to say Hi. You

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Speaker 2: can reach us at Hello at tegody dot com. You

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Speaker 2: can also find transcripts for today's episode at tengody dot com.

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Speaker 2: There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by

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Speaker 2: me Bridget Toad. It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed.

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Speaker 2: Creative Jonathan Stricklet is our executive producer. Tarry Harrison is

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Speaker 2: our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amado is our contributing producer.

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Speaker 2: I'm your host, bridget Todd. If you want to help

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Speaker 2: us grow, rate and review us on Apple podcasts. For

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Speaker 2: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts.