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Speaker 1: What kind of a show you guys putting.

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Speaker 2: On here today?

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Speaker 3: You're not interested in art?

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Speaker 4: Now?

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Speaker 3: No, look, we're going to do this thing. We're going

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Speaker 3: to have a conversation from Chicago. This is Film Spotting,

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Speaker 3: celebrating our twentieth year. I'm Josh Larson and I'm Adam Kempenar.

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Speaker 5: At approximately three pm on August twenty second, nineteen seventy two,

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Speaker 5: Sonny Wortzig and sal Nachurali entered the first Brooklyn Savings

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Speaker 5: Bank and attempted a robbery.

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Speaker 2: The very real nineteen seventy two Attempted Robbery became the

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five Best Picture nominated Dog Day Afternoon, directed

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Speaker 2: by Sidney Lamett and starring Al Pacino.

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Speaker 3: We revisit the film for its fiftieth anniversary, plus a

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Speaker 3: review of the global animated phenomenon Neja II. That and

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Speaker 3: more ahead on film.

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Speaker 2: Spying, Welcome to film Spotting, and yes, as it sometimes

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Speaker 2: happens around here, some more coincidence spotting. This episode is

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Speaker 2: being released. No, we did not plan this to the

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Speaker 2: day on the fifty third anniversary of the attempted robbery

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Speaker 2: of the First Brooklyn Savings Bank depicted in nineteen seventy

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Speaker 2: five's Dog Day Afternoon August twenty second.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we try to be timely with these anniversary reviews, Adam,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, this this worked out pretty well.

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Speaker 2: What do you get someone for the fifty third? What

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Speaker 2: do you call that?

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Speaker 3: H I'll have to get back to you this week.

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Speaker 2: A Pantheon Project review of Dog Day, which turns fifty

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Speaker 2: that's a little bit more of a conventional milestone. And

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Speaker 2: Josh has some thoughts on the year's biggest film at

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Speaker 2: the box office that maybe you've never even heard of.

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Speaker 2: The Chinese animated film Naja two is currently the fifth

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Speaker 2: highest grossing film of all time, and now it's in

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Speaker 2: theaters here in the States with the new English dub.

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Speaker 2: We've also got some poll results listeners pick a winner

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Speaker 2: in the absolutely stacked nineteen seventy six Best Picture race

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Speaker 2: spoiler the Academy may have gotten it right, and a

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Speaker 2: new poll that asked you to make an impossible choice

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Speaker 2: between two titans of animation.

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Speaker 3: But first, Dog Day Afternoon, a box office hit that

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Speaker 3: was nominated for six Oscars at the nineteen seventy six

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Speaker 3: Academy Awards, winning for Best Original Screenplay. On August twenty two,

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Speaker 3: nineteen seventy two, Sonny, Wertzik and sell Naturally attempted to

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Speaker 3: rob the first Brooklyn Savings Bank to pay for gender

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Speaker 3: affirming surgery for Sonny's lover Leon. Nothing went as planned.

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Speaker 3: There was no money in the safe. They took nine

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Speaker 3: people hostage. Spectators lined the streets. The police got involved,

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Speaker 3: then the media got involved. Here's al Pacino's Sonny negotiating

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Speaker 3: with Charles Derning's NYPD officer Aready good.

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Speaker 4: By Ahead Dolia got an attempted Robert robbery right armed

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Speaker 4: that nobody's been hurt. Released on hostages.

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Speaker 6: Nobody's going to.

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Speaker 3: Worry over kidnapping charges. The most you're gonna get is

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Speaker 3: five years.

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Speaker 2: You get out in one year.

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Speaker 6: Kiss me there, kiss me, but I'm being I like

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Speaker 6: to get kissed the buck about.

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Speaker 3: I'll come on.

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Speaker 6: They're a city cock, right, Robin. The bank's a federal offense.

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Speaker 6: They got me on kidnapping. I'm robberie. They're gonna bury me.

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Speaker 1: Man, I don't want to talk to somebody's trying to

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Speaker 1: calm you.

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Speaker 6: Get somebody in.

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Speaker 2: Charge you I am.

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Speaker 6: I'm trying to want to talk to some flunky pick

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Speaker 6: trying to calm me.

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Speaker 3: They don't have to be called what's he doing? I

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Speaker 3: want you to get back over there and there for

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Speaker 3: what's he doing that?

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Speaker 5: Get over there?

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Speaker 1: Dog back?

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Speaker 6: Damn man, he wants to kill me so bad he

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Speaker 6: can't taste it.

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Speaker 2: Call.

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Speaker 3: Longtime listener David L. Williams recently wrote us Adam, in

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Speaker 3: anticipation of our review of Dog Day Afternoon, Sidney Lumette's

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Speaker 3: nineteen seventy five Best Picture nominee about an attempted Brooklyn

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Speaker 3: bank robbery that goes horribly wrong, David wrote, really excited

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Speaker 3: about the Dog Day Afternoon, revisiting next week. It's a

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Speaker 3: terrific film that gets even better with each time I've

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Speaker 3: revisited it. Favorite Pacino performance probably, And honestly, who's bad

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Speaker 3: in it? Everybody down to the guy who delivers pizzas

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Speaker 3: and yells I'm an f and star is great. I'm

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Speaker 3: astonished at how perfectly Lumette pulls off the constantly shifting tone.

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Speaker 3: It's tense, it's funny, it's exciting, it's sad. It's everything

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Speaker 3: you want a movie to be. To get into our

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Speaker 3: Dog Day conversation, Adam, I want to circle back to

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Speaker 3: David's comment about al Pacino favorite Pacino performance, He asked,

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Speaker 3: We're not going to do a Pacino top five this

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Speaker 3: week some point. I'm sure we'll get to it, but

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Speaker 3: we have to spend considerable time on his performance as

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Speaker 3: Sonny Wertzick, the mastermind of the robbery, or at least

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Speaker 3: its adult architect, And I'd like to start by placing

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Speaker 3: Pacino in context with a few other nineteen seventies peers

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Speaker 3: here on the show. Twenty twenty five has inadvertently been

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Speaker 3: the year of the nineteen seventies anti hero. We consider

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Speaker 3: gen Hackman's career in the aftermath of his passing, and

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Speaker 3: even touched on Pacino in our discussion of him and

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Speaker 3: Hackman in nineteen seventy three Scarecrow. Then, we recently shared

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Speaker 3: our top five Jack Nicholson moments alongside our fiftieth anniversary

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Speaker 3: Sacred Cow review of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest,

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Speaker 3: And as I mentioned on a recent show, Paul Newman

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Speaker 3: has also been on my mind, having just seen hud

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Speaker 3: at University of Chicago's doc films. Though his anti hero

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Speaker 3: prime was technically in the nineteen sixties, I'm curious to

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Speaker 3: hear what you made of Pacino in Dog Day Afternoon, Adam.

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Speaker 3: Especially in light of these other anti hero icons, Where

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Speaker 3: does Sonny fit alongside the likes of Nicholson's RP. McMurphy,

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Speaker 3: Hackman's Popeye Doyle, and Newman's Hut or cool Hand Luke?

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Speaker 3: To your mind, what unique quality does Pacino bring to

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Speaker 3: this iconic American archetype.

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Speaker 2: Well, first, I want to say I think I agree

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Speaker 2: with everything David L. Williams had to say, including about

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Speaker 2: the pizza delivery guy. I don't know if you caught this,

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Speaker 2: but I wanted to make sure, and I know we'll

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Speaker 2: probably get into how good the supporting players are in

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Speaker 2: this film. I wanted to make sure we gave him credit,

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Speaker 2: so I looked up his name and Josh Look, I

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Speaker 2: knew when I saw Inside Man, Spike Lee's film, one

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Speaker 2: of my favorites of the last twenty five years. When

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Speaker 2: I saw that movie in two thousand and six, I

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Speaker 2: knew that it was in dialogue, very much in dialogue

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Speaker 2: with Dog Day Afternoon. I didn't know to what extent

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Speaker 2: it was in dialogue with Dog Day Afternoon because I

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Speaker 2: hadn't seen this Lamette film since I think I was

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Speaker 2: in college. And that's still the case. Now, this was

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Speaker 2: a revisit like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, where

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Speaker 2: I don't think I've seen it in a long long time,

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Speaker 2: going back that far, and then you watch it and

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Speaker 2: you realize, oh, it's very much indebted to that film.

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Speaker 2: How indebted the pizza delivery guy. His name is Lionel Pina.

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Speaker 2: His known for four movies on IMDb, Dog Day Afternoon,

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Speaker 2: Pizza Boy, Marathon Man, Street Gang, World Trade Center, Additional Crew,

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Speaker 2: and Inside Man Cop with pizzas perfect. Yes, so Spike,

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Speaker 2: who was being very intentional there The answer about Pacino's

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Speaker 2: It's such a good question, and it might be different.

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Speaker 2: The answer might be different depending on whether you are

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Speaker 2: specifically asking about Pacino or Pacino is Sonny, because there's

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Speaker 2: another seventies Pachino character that often comes up in conversations

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Speaker 2: about anti heroes, Michael Corleone. And of course I take

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Speaker 2: nothing away from Hackman and Nicholson and the complexity that

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Speaker 2: they bring to their performances. When I say this, there's

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Speaker 2: a reason we've done a top five scenes list for

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Speaker 2: both of them. But I think you'd agree they're movie

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Speaker 2: stars who more often than not feel like similar version

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Speaker 2: of themselves on screen. The Godfather Too was released less

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Speaker 2: than a year before Dog Day Afternoon, and Michael and

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Speaker 2: Sonny couldn't be more different physically emotionally, Sonny is like

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Speaker 2: he isn't even an open book. He's throwing pages in

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Speaker 2: your face as fast as they can be written. And

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Speaker 2: Michael's a diary with three secret locks that's been stashed

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Speaker 2: away inside a vault. But you know, Michael Corleone is

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Speaker 2: the outlier if you look at other Pacino performances from

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Speaker 2: around this time, not that he's necessarily playing an anti hero,

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Speaker 2: but Panic and needle Park, Scarecrow, Cerproco, they're all closer

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Speaker 2: to what he's doing in Dog Day. So how does

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Speaker 2: Sonny fit within the anti hero archetype? Where does that

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Speaker 2: leave us with Pacino? Sonny's breaking the law, He imperils

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Speaker 2: several people and ends up getting his friend killed, his

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Speaker 2: wife Leon, who he's doing this for. We're told he

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Speaker 2: put it's a gun to his head and cut them

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Speaker 2: with a knife. If you consider all the traits that

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Speaker 2: we normally assign to American screen heroes, including maybe most

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Speaker 2: pertinent here let's call it poise, I'm not sure Sonny

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Speaker 2: could reasonably be said to have any of them. There's

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Speaker 2: all of that, Josh, and then take someone like McMurphy,

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Speaker 2: the one we most recently discussed. It isn't necessarily true

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Speaker 2: for all anti heroes, but it is true for him.

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Speaker 2: He's undeniably flawed. He challenges our expectations of a hero.

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Speaker 2: But not only does he have the gravitas and some

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Speaker 2: other characteristics that we associate with one. He's battling a

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Speaker 2: clear villain like we spent a lot of time getting into.

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Speaker 2: And their conflict isn't any conflict. It's a mythical one.

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Speaker 2: It can represent almost whatever you would like it to,

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Speaker 2: authoritarianism and oppression versus liberty and free expression, conformity versus individuality,

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Speaker 2: or like you argued, life versus death. There's no embodiment

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Speaker 2: of evil here, like nurse Ratchet or a cool hand

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Speaker 2: Luke's prison warden that Sonny has to confront and through

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Speaker 2: his suffering, become for us the audience, unmistakably a martyr,

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Speaker 2: our savior. When Mulvaney, the bank manager near the end,

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Speaker 2: says something like I wish you never walked into this bank,

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Speaker 2: all Sonny can do is stare back blankly. Who in

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Speaker 2: that bank? Are as viewers watching feels any different. Sonny tells,

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Speaker 2: I think it's Leon on the phone. I've gone so

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Speaker 2: far with this, why should I give up? Now? Sonny

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Speaker 2: may know a lot about a lot of things as

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Speaker 2: he as he argues at one point, but he apparently

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Speaker 2: isn't aware of the sunk cost fallacy. His costs are

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Speaker 2: at the bottom of the ocean's He's trudging ahead anyway.

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Speaker 2: This entire struggle is his making. So all of this

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Speaker 2: is to say we've pretty well established the anti is

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Speaker 2: there any hero in here? At all? And we have

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Speaker 2: to distinguish between hero and simply being sympathetic, because you

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Speaker 2: don't ever pity a bad guy, but you do pity Sonny.

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Speaker 2: You pity sal Even the hostages have sympathy for them.

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Speaker 2: They aren't bad guys. Again, great, is there any hero

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Speaker 2: or not? I have an answer. I'm sure we'll get

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Speaker 2: into that, but I still haven't actually answered your first question,

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Speaker 2: and I'll try to sum it up quickly. It's difficult

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Speaker 2: to imagine any other star from the period playing Sonny.

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Speaker 2: That actor can't just be comfortable showing some vulnerability. He

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Speaker 2: has to be comfortable wallowing in weakness and futility, and

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Speaker 2: that leads that leads to having to show something distinct

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Speaker 2: from Michael Corleone and also from many Hackman and Nicholson rolls,

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Speaker 2: because you rarely, if ever see them do it, and

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Speaker 2: when they do, there's usually a rage driving it that

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Speaker 2: still makes them see tough and somewhat in control, and

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Speaker 2: that is portray distress. But Sonny is not tough or

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Speaker 2: in control. He's flitty. He's neurotic. How about that completely

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Speaker 2: unnecessary spastic dance he does when he removes the gun

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Speaker 2: from the gift box and altered trips all over himself.

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Speaker 2: There's another word for all of that. Uncool. Anti heroes

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Speaker 2: tend to have swagger and carry a certain mystique, but

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Speaker 2: she no dismantles that entirely. In Dog Day Afternoon, his

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Speaker 2: Sonny is frazzled and flailing and painfully human, not someone

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Speaker 2: to idolize, and not a martyr.

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Speaker 1: He moves, take his head off, put the gun on him,

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Speaker 1: get out of a second, Sonny.

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Speaker 3: I can't do it, Sonny.

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Speaker 2: I'm not gonna make it.

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Speaker 4: Sonny.

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Speaker 6: What are you talking about?

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Speaker 3: Put it on it?

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Speaker 2: You can't do it, Sonny?

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Speaker 4: Sad?

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Speaker 2: Sad?

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Speaker 1: Are you can't make it.

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Speaker 3: It's the vulnerability that's it. For me. That is what

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Speaker 3: stood out thinking about Paccino maybe in general, but Sonny

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Speaker 3: in particular, in these sorts of parts. There's a distinction

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Speaker 3: there from definitely the Hackman characters that we saw, the

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Speaker 3: Nicholson characters we've seen. They do always still seem to

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Speaker 3: be guarded, even when they're at the bottom and they're exposed.

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Speaker 3: I think they get exposed. I don't know if they

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Speaker 3: ever admit that they're vulnerable even when they are, and

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Speaker 3: Sonny just wears it. And I think it's more than

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Speaker 3: the performance here. I think it's necessary and unique to

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Speaker 3: Paccino because so much of it has to do with

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Speaker 3: those eyes, those puppy dog eyes that you can just

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Speaker 3: fall into. Even as Sonny is saying something very aggressive,

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Speaker 3: or is talking about something or a plan that you

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Speaker 3: know is a bad idea for him and for others,

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Speaker 3: when he looks at you and it's that I think

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Speaker 3: you call it that stare, but like that blank stare,

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Speaker 3: it's also a pleading stare. It's not a dumb stare.

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Speaker 3: It's a vulnerable stare. He's looking at you the camera

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Speaker 3: another character, and the eyes are saying I need help.

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Speaker 3: Even if the body is saying I am a tough

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Speaker 3: guy or I am in control, the eyes are telling

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Speaker 3: you this guy desperately needs help. And Pacino somehow still

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Speaker 3: managed to manages to embody that physically elsewhere. So that's

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Speaker 3: the tightrope walks he's doing here. And he's just a

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Speaker 3: live wire in every scene. He's volatile in every scene.

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Speaker 3: But it's the vulnerability that stands out to me. I

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Speaker 3: do think this is maybe the most in performance of

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Speaker 3: any that we've considered in recent months from these nineteen

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Speaker 3: seventies actors. We talked a little bit with Nicholson about

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Speaker 3: some of our picks and which ones did he completely disappear? Right,

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Speaker 3: you didn't see the Nicholson at all, and they're there,

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Speaker 3: but none of those even felt as lived in as

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Speaker 3: Paccino is here as Sonny. Where to your point about

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Speaker 3: no one else being able to play him, like this

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Speaker 3: is the only Sonny that there ever could have been,

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Speaker 3: and it's the only person Paccino maybe could ever have been.

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Speaker 3: They're so intrinsically connected, and so I think this is

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Speaker 3: the hallmark of the movie. Is this performance. I think

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Speaker 3: also we might this touches on what you were asking

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Speaker 3: a little bit in terms of the hero Adam, and

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Speaker 3: I think he becomes a symbolic hero, and I want

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Speaker 3: to talk about that when we get into the political connotations.

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Speaker 3: But think about all of the awfulness he has caused,

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Speaker 3: and in some cases we've seen him do he even

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Speaker 3: sort of betrays Salah one point, He even sort of

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Speaker 3: betrays Leon at one point. And if we're to believe

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Speaker 3: to your what you were talking about, Leon's stories about

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Speaker 3: him and Sonny's wife's stories about him, he's been truly

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Speaker 3: awful to people. And yet how about near the end

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Speaker 3: when he's quoting out that sweet tortured will that includes

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Speaker 3: both Leon and his wife.

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Speaker 1: Ah, come my wife, Come my sweet wife, angela five

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Speaker 1: thousand from the same policy.

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Speaker 6: You are the only woman that I ever left, and

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Speaker 6: I repledge my love to you in this sad moment.

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Speaker 3: I mean, think about even tiner moments. Let's go back

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Speaker 3: to the pizza guy. I gotta pay for the food.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's it's his good instinct to cover the

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Speaker 3: bill because deep down he knows he's caused this, and

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Speaker 3: maybe that's where he's expressing that knowledge. But you talked

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Speaker 3: about mulvaney the bank manager. I think it's so crucial

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Speaker 3: that Loumett includes this moment later on, specifically, after Sonny

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Speaker 3: does something that could win our sympathy as the audience

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Speaker 3: or the people sympathy in the bank, he says, you're

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Speaker 3: not and here's the quote, an angel of human kindness?

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Speaker 3: And so is he too likable? In this movie? That's

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Speaker 3: always the you know, the push and pull for an

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Speaker 3: anti hero. And I think Dog Day Afternoon includes enough

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Speaker 3: little moments like that to keep us from falling completely

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Speaker 3: in love with Sonny even as we fall into those eyes.

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Speaker 2: I absolutely agree with that, and to what you were

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Speaker 2: saying about those puppy dog eyes and the way he

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Speaker 2: seems to constantly be pleading and how you know he

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Speaker 2: is so unfit for this job, which some characters say

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Speaker 2: about him that this just isn't in his name, and

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Speaker 2: we see that. There are many examples, but the one

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Speaker 2: for me that gets me every single time is right

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Speaker 2: at the beginning is the character named Stevie, the the

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Speaker 2: third wheel who who can't take it and runs and

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Speaker 2: when he says, they're standing in the doorway and he

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Speaker 2: says to Sonny, I need the keys. How am I

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Speaker 2: gonna get home. There's a moment where you can tell

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Speaker 2: that Sonny actually is contemplating, yes, letting.

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Speaker 3: Him take the keys, absolutely, even though.

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Speaker 2: They're robbing the bank and they obviously need to get

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Speaker 2: away car. There's a moment where he is so sympathetic

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Speaker 2: to Stevie having to take a train or walk a

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Speaker 2: long distance that he is considering giving him the keys that.

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Speaker 3: I got to pay for the food.

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Speaker 2: It's it's it's crazy. So I I so badly almost

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Speaker 2: want to get into all of the amazing Lumette filmmaking

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Speaker 2: touches here. But let's talk about the hero question, because

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Speaker 2: I think that's where we're at. We've certainly prompted that here.

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Speaker 2: I agree with you. I think he does come to

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Speaker 2: symbolize something and in some ways then maybe even backs

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Speaker 2: in to being a hero. And that might be a

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Speaker 2: strike against him as a hero if it likes so

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Speaker 2: many other things that happen in this movie for Sonny,

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Speaker 2: if it almost happens against his will. I think there

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Speaker 2: is one particular thing that Sonny realizes and that he provokes,

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Speaker 2: and it's in this provocation that he becomes that symbolic hero,

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Speaker 2: and that is enough. That's enough for this movie for

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Speaker 2: him to be the hero that the people of New York,

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Speaker 2: the people on these streets need, if not the type

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Speaker 2: of mythical hero that many of these other anti heroes

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Speaker 2: that we're talking about become. This movie, right from the beginning,

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Speaker 2: that great Lumette opening sequence, which we can share more

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Speaker 2: details about later, grounds us in this gritty reality, and

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Speaker 2: he is playing this everyday type of character. It wants

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Speaker 2: to ground us in this nineteen seventies where we recognize

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Speaker 2: there is an immediate distrust of authority. They are coming

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Speaker 2: off of the killing of many people, many innocent people

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Speaker 2: reportedly at Attica. There are these economic concerns, and that's

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Speaker 2: the first time that people start to get on his side.

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Speaker 2: The hostages there get on his side where he's talking

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Speaker 2: about how you can't get a job if you're not

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Speaker 2: in the union, and he can't be a bank teller,

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Speaker 2: which he tried, because you don't get paid enough, and

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Speaker 2: they all nod their heads, right, he understands that. But

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Speaker 2: what he really understands, and what Lament shows with his

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Speaker 2: camera is that what the people are really afraid of

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Speaker 2: is the potential for the state to wield violence with impunity.

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Speaker 2: That's what Attica showed even though they couldn't witness it,

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Speaker 2: it revealed the potential for the state to do that.

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Speaker 2: And Sonny recognizes and here again Lamette with his camera

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Speaker 2: shows that claustrophobic nature of every time he's outside, and

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Speaker 2: he says that great line, he can't wait to shoot me.

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Speaker 2: This guy can't wait to shoot me. The way they're

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Speaker 2: constantly encroaching. Every cop out there has his gun, even

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Speaker 2: when Derning's just trying to have a conversation with him,

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Speaker 2: every cop has their gun drawn. Lamette wants to constantly

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Speaker 2: show us how from every angle there are groups of

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Speaker 2: cops who are moving in and moving in, and they

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Speaker 2: really do seem blood thirsty, even though it's just little

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Speaker 2: old Sonny who is standing out there. And when he

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Speaker 2: says there's a line later where it's not clear what

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Speaker 2: he's referring to. It's later in the film. He's ramping

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Speaker 2: or amping the crowd up and he says, you got it, man,

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Speaker 2: you got it man a couple times, and I really

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Speaker 2: think what he's saying is is you got it like

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Speaker 2: you've got the power, you've got you've got this sense

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Speaker 2: of power. We're taking it back from them, And what

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Speaker 2: here again Lamette does with the camera that's really interesting

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Speaker 2: in these shots Josh and and he jextaposes it. Later

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Speaker 2: when we see that Sonny no longer has this power

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Speaker 2: when he's dealing with Sheldon, the FBI guy later, that

375
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Speaker 2: spotlight is in his face. It's completely discombobulating him. He's

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Speaker 2: cut off at the waist awkwardly. He he really seems

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Speaker 2: like he has no control of that situation at all.

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Speaker 3: Stage and the stage has beaken away.

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Speaker 2: It's been taken away. He does feel like a person

380
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Speaker 2: on a stage there. He The way Lamett shoots that

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Speaker 2: is you see Sonny almost the entire time in a

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Speaker 2: full long shot. You see you see how those early scenes,

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Speaker 2: you see how his body moves across that sidewalk almost

384
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Speaker 2: like a stage, and he controls it, he owns it.

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Speaker 2: That's the only time in the film. Once he gets

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Speaker 2: outside and he gets in front of that crowd, and

387
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Speaker 2: once he realizes that there's something there that he can exploit,

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Speaker 2: that's real. It's very real. That the police do seem

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Speaker 2: like an oppressive force. They are bloodthirsty, that's real, and

390
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Speaker 2: he can tap into that. That's when he finally takes

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Speaker 2: over some power and that's a legitimate that's not just

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Speaker 2: something he's exploiting because he wants to take control of

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Speaker 2: the situation. It's a real concern. The crowd has a

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Speaker 2: real concern about that, as we're looking at that New

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Speaker 2: York crowd in nineteen seventy two.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Sonny becomes this heroic figure and a

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Speaker 3: political figure mostly by happenstance, you know, and that fits

398
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Speaker 3: who he is as a person. When he does yell

399
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Speaker 3: Attica and starts chanting that it comes out of him.

400
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Speaker 3: Almost has this impulse of bit of desperation, you know,

401
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Speaker 3: that I'm sure is buried in some real fears and

402
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 3: rage as well. But it's not like he planned to

403
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Speaker 3: have this in his back pocket to use if he needed.

404
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 3: It's very impulsive, not an intentional statement. But he sticks

405
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Speaker 3: with it. Why because of what you're talking about. It works,

406
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Speaker 3: It works for the crowd. And so I don't think

407
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Speaker 3: you'd call Sonny a moral crusader crusading against state violence.

408
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Speaker 3: He's as we've tracked, he's deeply flawed, but that doesn't

409
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Speaker 3: mean he can't be capable of making moral points. And

410
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Speaker 3: the Attica context is so crucial most listeners know, but

411
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Speaker 3: again this nineteen seventy one revolt at Attica Correctional Facility,

412
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Speaker 3: which was in New York. About thirty inmates ten officers

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Speaker 3: were killed, mostly by police. And so it is that

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Speaker 3: state violence you're talking about. And here in front of

415
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Speaker 3: the bank, the police arrive, as so often happens, boys

416
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Speaker 3: with toys, way more boys, way more powerful toys than

417
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Speaker 3: our necessary for the situation. They arrived with escalation tactics,

418
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Speaker 3: not a de escalation strategy. And so when Sonny yells Attica,

419
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Speaker 3: he is it's the moment where he is so overpowered

420
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Speaker 3: and so overwhelmed. And I understand that's the point, but

421
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Speaker 3: it's different to be prepared for the situation and to

422
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Speaker 3: come prepared to kill enough to kill thirty times over.

423
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Speaker 3: And so Sonny yells Attica. He's reclaiming what little power

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Speaker 3: he has, including with the crowd while he has it.

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Speaker 3: And this was one of the revelations for me Adam

426
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Speaker 3: on this revisit. I saw it a little more recently

427
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Speaker 3: than you did. Two thousand and five was the last

428
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Speaker 3: time I watched Dog Day Afternoon, and I wrote about

429
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Speaker 3: it at that time. I saw it mostly as a

430
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 3: media critique and spent a lot of time, which you know,

431
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 3: and that's there. It's there. You can obviously revisit that

432
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 3: as well. I'd love to. But it's interesting when I

433
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 3: look back at what I wrote, didn't really touch on

434
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 3: these elements at all. In twenty twenty five, Dog Day

435
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 3: Afternoon really struck me more as this searing, very desperate,

436
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 3: anti authoritarian protest film, and it was reminding me watching

437
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,479
Speaker 3: it of that all too brief move toward police reform

438
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 3: we had in twenty twenty not all that long ago,

439
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 3: in the wake of the murder of George Floyd by police.

440
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 3: I think this movie reveals the buffoonery of escalating police response.

441
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 3: And you called out the one moment where Sonny is

442
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 3: pointing out all of the cops with their guns. How

443
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 3: about when he's screaming It may have been then, but

444
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 3: maybe it was another point where he's put the effing

445
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 3: guns down, put them down. I mean that worked in

446
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 3: the moment of the movie, in the context of the movie,

447
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 3: and I got to say, for me, it was just

448
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 3: like this invigorating call for a new way of law enforcement,

449
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 3: one that does prioritize de escalation. And if that was

450
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 3: fitting in nineteen seventy five, fitting in twenty twenty, it's

451
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 3: even more fitting now. How about the moment when Sonny

452
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 3: uses the cops of bringing, in his word, militia. What

453
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 3: do we have right now? I mean, we've got these rampant,

454
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 3: often illegal ice arrests, dangerously silly boys with toys running

455
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 3: around if I've ever seen them, And so for me,

456
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 3: this no way feels like an artifact from a previous time.

457
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 3: It is a cinematic protest sign for our own time.

458
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 3: And I really wonder this movie really made me wonder

459
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 3: are we going to get a movie as defiant and

460
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 3: daring for our era as nineteen seventy five did with

461
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 3: Dog Day Afternoon. I mean, it could be seen something

462
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 3: like Cuckoo's Nest. We touched on some of these ideas,

463
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 3: even more so in Nicholson's the last Detail. I would say,

464
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 3: Dog d Afternoon's definitely a response to the Nixon years, right.

465
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 3: I hope we get an equivalent response at this point.

466
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 3: I fear not. Given how so many institutions have kind

467
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 3: of wilted before this administration, it's yet to be seen

468
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 3: how Hollywood is actually going to respond. We don't even

469
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 3: have a Hollywood that has space for movies. Like this anymore.

470
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 3: Let's be honest. Maybe it don't have to come from

471
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 3: independent cinema, but man, this this movie just really popped

472
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 3: for me as political protests in a way it didn't

473
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 3: what twenty years ago.

474
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: Got the mother shout of.

475
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 2: Same for me. And that's why the media critique aspect

476
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 2: fits into more of the disillusionment and the distrust of

477
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 2: your institutions, with the fourth of State being a key

478
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 2: part of that. Absolutes to just isolating that element and

479
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 2: realizing that they're just in it for their own angle.

480
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 2: They're in it for the scandalous nature of it, and

481
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 2: they're getting out of it whatever they need, and they'll

482
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 2: use they'll use him, and they'll use whoever they need

483
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 2: to to get what they want.

484
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 3: It's like twenty five percent of this is Loumet's network, right,

485
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 3: whereas the network was like all this, yeah, exactly.

486
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 2: But just to really underline it here, the element that's

487
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 2: so fascinating about Sonny in this idea of power and

488
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 2: why he leans in it so much is you have

489
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 2: to imagine this character, this man Sonny, who otherwise in

490
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 2: his life based on everything that we see about him

491
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 2: about how he behaves, his actions, where he's at in

492
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 2: his life to do something this desperate the people around him.

493
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,719
Speaker 2: He is a man who feels and probably is powerless,

494
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 2: and he probably speaks for a lot of New Yorkers

495
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 2: who feel like they are powerless. And only now by

496
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 2: doing this, when he stands out on a street, all

497
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 2: of these people who have gathered, all of these police

498
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 2: officers with guns drawn, he can say put him down.

499
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 2: Like you said, he can say put the guns down,

500
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: and they.

501
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 3: Put them down.

502
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 2: Now that's power. That's power for once in his life,

503
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 2: he has power. And once you feel that, you can

504
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 2: understand why that character is going to want to keep

505
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 2: wielding that or is going to want to try to maintain.

506
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 2: But here's where I do think Lamett is and you

507
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 2: mentioned this as well. I think he's very sober about

508
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 2: how he depicts not only Sonny, but how he depicts

509
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 2: the crowd too. If we're saying the crowd is recognizing

510
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 2: that they don't want to be oppressed and they're fighting

511
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: back against the police. Yes, there's that part where not

512
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 2: only are they cheering him on because they see him

513
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: doing this on their behalf, if you will. And there's

514
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 2: a moment, Josh where remember when he throws the money

515
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 2: after he pays for the pizza. There's a reason why

516
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 2: Lamette shows as they throw the money and the people

517
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 2: kind of fight over it. There's really no reason why

518
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 2: the police have to go into the crowd and start

519
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:50,959
Speaker 2: beating people and pulling bodies out and putting cuffs on

520
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 2: people because they're fighting over some dollars. So that's more

521
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 2: injustice and more oppression. But here's something I certainly didn't

522
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 2: catch on to back when I saw this movie originally

523
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 2: many years ago, And I wonder what you made of it,

524
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 2: or if I'm trying to read too much into it.

525
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: Every time he goes out there, every time Sonny goes out,

526
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 2: the crowd has different chants or progressively they have different chants,

527
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 2: and they're cheering him on. At the end of the film,

528
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 2: once his true story, the full story has been revealed,

529
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 2: there's a moment where there's chance happening and Lamette scans

530
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 2: the crowd and we realize that there is a faction

531
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 2: of the crowd that is the gay community. Yeah, that

532
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 2: is cheering for him. And what happens is they chant.

533
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 2: You don't see, but you hear the other side of

534
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 2: the crowd. They're booing. They're booing, I think, very distinctly,

535
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 2: and it just tells you that, you know, at some

536
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 2: point they don't like their oppressors. But also tribal instincts

537
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 2: are going to kick in and we'll also turn on

538
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 2: each other and will start trying to wield power over

539
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 2: people we think that we can wield it over if.

540
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 3: I'm glad, I'm glad you mentioned that, because you know,

541
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 3: we shouldn't allied over the fact that, Yeah, there are

542
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 3: political elements, different political elements at play here, and the

543
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 3: queer community is definitely one, and there is that part

544
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 3: of the crowd who are there to support Sonny after

545
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 3: the news does break that it's for this gender affirming

546
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 3: surgery for Leon, And yeah, I think that's part of

547
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 3: the nuance that Lumette brings, the honesty, because you can

548
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 3: imagine another movie and maybe I don't know, maybe it's

549
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 3: the way Lumette felt it should have been played in

550
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy five. You can picture a movie like this

551
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 3: made well, not now, but maybe five years ago, where

552
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 3: that would have been played up more. And suddenly Sonny

553
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 3: became this champion of the queer community and all of

554
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 3: New York, you know, came out to support him. And

555
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 3: to your point, that's not life that there. We are tribal,

556
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 3: we do have our prejudices that rub up against each

557
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 3: other in ugly ways, and so including that, maybe it

558
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 3: goes back to what you're saying about the prologue, where

559
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 3: we do see these bits of New York, all of

560
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 3: the burrows of gritty daily life, and so Lumette wants

561
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 3: to inject that sense of reality from the beginning all

562
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 3: the way through the film, and these tribal instincts are

563
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 3: a part of that.

564
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 2: And in that intro, it's not just that we see

565
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 2: mostly those gritty everyday aspects, but we also see flashes

566
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 2: of people with their private pools, and we get a

567
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 2: great match cut Josh, which is a woman who's standing

568
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 2: out on her little lawn. It seems like more of

569
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 2: a suburban shot, and it's not big, it's just a

570
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 2: little patch of grass, but it's her little patch of

571
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 2: grass and she has it and she's watering it. And

572
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 2: the match cut is as she sprang the water to

573
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 2: a man who's sprang water on the cement, clearing the

574
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 2: grime off of the street in front of his shop,

575
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 2: and you just you get right there that that kind

576
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 2: of collision, and that whole sequence gives us the collision

577
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 2: of the working class, the middle class, and the leisure class.

578
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 2: There are different shots that give they give us the

579
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 2: full spectrum of the haves and the have nots there.

580
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 2: But what really stands out to me, and I wonder

581
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 2: if you have any other We've we've hit on a few,

582
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 2: but maybe there are some other specific moments of the

583
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 2: filmmaking that really stood out to you. Perspective, the way

584
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,839
Speaker 2: he uses point of view, the way he lament with

585
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 2: holds information. Here is something that really stood out to

586
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 2: me this time. The fact that we don't know at all.

587
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 2: There's no hint given of why they are robbing the bank.

588
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 2: Now we can we can deduce that it has something

589
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 2: to do with desperation. They need the money. But there's

590
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 2: no talk there, there's no there's no initial discussion in

591
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 2: the car, there's no getting to know the characters. There's

592
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 2: no sense of here why we might need the money.

593
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 2: We don't know anything at all until about thirty eight

594
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 2: minutes in. And that's when that phone call happens, and

595
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 2: and he says, well I can't get a job, and

596
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 2: and et cetera.

597
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 5: Don't.

598
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 2: We don't get the full, you know, the full story

599
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 2: about Leon, but we get a little bit that that

600
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 2: does provide some view into the mind of Sonny and

601
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 2: does also give us a little sympathy. You can see

602
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 2: how the bank workers start to kind of change their

603
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 2: perspective on him a little bit there because they can

604
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 2: start to relate to him a little bit there. But

605
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 2: also what it is, Josh is I think I think

606
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 2: it's a little met kind of wisely saying I'm not

607
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 2: going to predispose you. I'm not going to allow you

608
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 2: to be prejudiced towards these characters one way or another.

609
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 2: I don't want you to have anything in their favor.

610
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 2: The information is going to be revealed to you as

611
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 2: the information is uncovered, as this this event, this day

612
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 2: goes on, and there's there's another great moment, or there's

613
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 2: another sequence that speaks to this, another choice that Lamet

614
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 2: makes Josh with point of view, we don't see the

615
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 2: police officers at all. We don't know that the police

616
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 2: are gathering outside. We have no sense that they know

617
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 2: that the bank is being robbed until Sonny sees them.

618
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,760
Speaker 2: Until the reveal that the darning is on the phone

619
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 2: and Derning says, look out your window, I'm across the

620
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 2: street or something like that. It's not until Sonny sees

621
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 2: them that we see them. And earlier when that guy,

622
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 2: the insurance guy across the street, it's sal Then it's

623
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 2: Sonny who sees them, so it's always their point of view.

624
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 2: We spend most of our time with them. It is

625
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 2: fundamentally about the human drama inside that bank and what's

626
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 2: going on inside their troubled minds. It's not the procedural aspects.

627
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 2: It's not the suspense. It's never really a question of,

628
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 2: you know, are they going to get the jet? And

629
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 2: unlike Inside Man, where it's kind of reversed, the main

630
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 2: character is essentially the Charles Dearning character right in Denzel.

631
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 2: In Denzel Washington's Detective, we never get Charles Darning's side

632
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 2: of things other than briefly witnessing the conversation between the

633
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 2: FBI man and Derning on the street as they first

634
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 2: show up, and then when the first phone call is

635
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 2: being set up. There's a little bit of cross cutting

636
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,439
Speaker 2: on that call. But other than that, Josh, we never

637
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 2: just hang out with the cops, unless unless Leon's on

638
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,919
Speaker 2: the phone. We don't know unless Sonny is talking to them,

639
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 2: and so we're always shielded from that part of the

640
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 2: conversation because we are always aligned with Sonny and with

641
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 2: the people who are inside that bank. And then how

642
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 2: about the choice to just have When Sheldon replaces him,

643
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 2: Charles Derning just disappears. He just disappears from the store.

644
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 3: Ground demoted, right.

645
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 2: I know, And something about that just makes it all

646
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:08,879
Speaker 2: feel so much more real. It feels dispassionate, the way

647
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 2: life probably really is. It feels colder, and it tells you.

648
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 2: It signals to you, and I think it signals to

649
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 2: Sonny that's something in this dynamic really has changed. And

650
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 2: so just making decisions like that in terms of perspective

651
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 2: and subtle things like that, really do align you with

652
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 2: these characters in a way that I think. I think

653
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 2: that's what makes it feel so intimate.

654
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 3: The claustrophobia. The way the filmmaking emphasizes that is very

655
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 3: on point. It's almost there's that cutaway fairly early on

656
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 3: to Angie, Sunny's wife played by Susan Peretz, where cops

657
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 3: are interviewing her, and it's almost jarring because we've left

658
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 3: the bank and we've left the block right, It's like, whoa, wait,

659
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,399
Speaker 3: this movie can do that, It's going to do that. Yeah.

660
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 3: I also, you know, in terms of the filmmaking, when

661
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 3: we did our Lumette blind Spot's Marathon, I think just

662
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 3: about a year ago this time I came to admire

663
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 3: and I think this became true further along in his career,

664
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 3: the restraint he would show, the way he did expertly

665
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 3: and efficiently what was needed, but often nothing more. And

666
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 3: so I think of some of the early shots in

667
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 3: the bank where it's a quick tracking shot from I

668
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 3: think it probably starts with Stevie, then hit Sonny and

669
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 3: then hits sal but without any edits, and that you know,

670
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,879
Speaker 3: has a sort of forcefulness to it that's different from

671
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 3: what we've been getting. So it does stand out then,

672
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 3: and it's effective. The camera often becomes agitated when Sonny

673
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 3: becomes agitated and follows him. That again is very effective.

674
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 3: But it's not like Lumette is trying to, you know,

675
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 3: use shaky cam the whole time to keep us on edge.

676
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 3: And then there are moves like the very patient pan,

677
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 3: but it's crucial that it's a pan over the exhausted hostages,

678
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 3: the tellers laid into the night to capture again just

679
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 3: the pacing has slowed down. There's a leffler, lethargy head

680
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 3: that has settled in. And we talked about this a

681
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 3: lot Adam in our lou Matte Blind Spot's Marathon, but

682
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 3: the effective editing in so many of his films, and

683
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 3: here he's working with DeeDee Allen, who also edited Bonnie

684
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 3: and Clyde, a little movie known for its editing. And

685
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 3: I think of the sequence where Sonny shoots out a

686
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 3: window because he thinks the cops are trying to break in,

687
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden we get these frequent cuts

688
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 3: to the hostages, to the cops outside, to the crowd,

689
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 3: to Sonny and it's like this barrage that again is

690
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 3: very effective because it's not overused elsewhere throughout the movie.

691
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 3: So yeah, I think Dog Day Afternoon is a good

692
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 3: example of Loumette at that the restrained height of his powers,

693
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,439
Speaker 3: if you could say that they use that phrase there.

694
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I want to emphasize what you said. I

695
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 2: was actually very much struck by the fact that inside

696
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 2: the bank, I think Lamette. My guess is Lamett made

697
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 2: a choice based on how still the camera often is,

698
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 2: or when it's moving, it is panning, or it is tracking.

699
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 2: It seems very steady. He recognizes, going back to what

700
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 2: I was saying about Paccino and how neurotic Sonny is,

701
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 2: how flitty he is, how manic and chaotic that character is.

702
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 2: The camera doesn't have to do any other work to

703
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 2: get aggressively more agitation, doesn't have to oversell it, so

704
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 2: Lamett can actually go back to, you know, relying on

705
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 2: more classical filmmaking. And there's there's a there's a great shot,

706
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 2: there's a great moment, and it's it's very small but

707
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 2: actually for me, really really powerful and stressful at the

708
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 2: same time that I think speaks to the merging of

709
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,919
Speaker 2: of this kind of technique, bringing together both a little

710
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 2: bit of agitation but also the steadiness. And it's it's

711
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 2: a memorable moment in the film because and you know,

712
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 2: John Cazell, just one of the all time great screen

713
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 2: actors lost too early to us playing sal in this film.

714
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:08,439
Speaker 3: Such a ticking time bomb here.

715
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 2: I don't know if we could ever pull off a

716
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:16,280
Speaker 2: top five like this someday, Top five Top five character

717
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 2: reversals or something where the reversal is simply a character

718
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 2: says one thing that absolutely devastates you because you believe,

719
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 2: you think you know what they mean. You're sure you

720
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 2: know what they mean, and it kind of breaks your heart.

721
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 2: And then the next thing out of your mouth completely

722
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 2: contradicts what they just said, and that also shocks you

723
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,919
Speaker 2: and kind of breaks your heart, but in a different way.

724
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 2: And I'm referring to the part where he says, did

725
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 2: you really mean it what you were saying about killing

726
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 2: all the hostages and starting to throw the bodies out

727
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 2: the door? After the first time Sonny says it the

728
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 2: way sal says that line, and of course his whole

729
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 2: temperament up to this point in the film, but really

730
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:05,800
Speaker 2: throughout the film, you think he's asking did you really

731
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 2: mean this?

732
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 5: Like?

733
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:10,320
Speaker 2: Are you going to ask me to to kill these people?

734
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 2: Were really going to do that? Did you mean that?

735
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 2: That's that's what you think he means. But were you

736
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 2: serious about what you said that way? How about Tom?

737
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 2: How about throwing those bodies at the barn? And then

738
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 2: the next thing he says, Josh is because I'll tell

739
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 2: you right now, I'm right in doing It's it's shocking

740
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 2: and horrifying. But but here's the filmmaking. That shot starts

741
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,800
Speaker 2: with South sitting on the ground up against the wall

742
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 2: and the camera. He's in the bottom left of the frame.

743
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 2: Pachina walks through I think a doorway. More centered in

744
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 2: the frame. There are people, the bank workers in the

745
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 2: middle and kind of against the back of a wall.

746
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 2: Pachina walks in and then walks to the right of

747
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 2: the frame. The camera just follows him, just pans. It's

748
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 2: clearly on a tripod or seems to be on a tripod,

749
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 2: and just pans to the right smoothly as Pacina does.

750
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 2: But then Sal says something to him, so Paccino starts

751
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 2: to walk from right to left on the frame kind

752
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 2: of diagonal towards Sal to talk to him, and as

753
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 2: it does, the camera starts to pan with him. But

754
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 2: as he gets closer to Sal, you realize it's not

755
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 2: it's not just panning, because the camera is on a track,

756
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:32,399
Speaker 2: and it actually very quickly. It doesn't cover a big

757
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,240
Speaker 2: distance at all. It covers maybe like three feet, Josh,

758
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 2: but it in those three feet, it tracks forward very quickly,

759
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 2: and just just that that very quickly, that tracking so

760
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 2: rapidly signals to you that something momentous, something really heavy

761
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 2: is about and something very stressful is about to go down.

762
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 2: But it's all set up just by again very classical

763
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 2: filmmaking with a pan, a steady shot in a pan

764
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 2: to the right.

765
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 3: So that's a very harrowing moment. I want to bring

766
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 3: up my second revelation I had, which is totally in

767
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:10,839
Speaker 3: the opposite direction of harrowing. Actually, so if my first

768
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:15,280
Speaker 3: revelation was you know how topically political, Dog Day Afternoon

769
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 3: is the second. And David L. Williams mentioned this in

770
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 3: his email that I referenced at the top. Here is

771
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 3: how funny this is. I mean that that bit you

772
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 3: called out about the flower box, Adam. I mean it

773
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:32,439
Speaker 3: does speak to Sonny's you know, clumsiness and how he's

774
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 3: not this smooth professional. But it's also a great bit

775
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 3: of physical comedy. I mean, the way he sustains it

776
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 3: and keeps flipping it all over the place. You've already

777
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 3: called out the other bit, how do I get home, Stevie?

778
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 3: I mean it does speak to Sonny's kindness. But at

779
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 3: the same time, what is going on here? I mean,

780
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 3: is this a farce? Is this movie going to be

781
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 3: a crime comedy? At this point we wonder how about

782
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,280
Speaker 3: the touch I know that has thought ahead to spray

783
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,439
Speaker 3: paint the camra us right, oh yeah, And so he's

784
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,760
Speaker 3: got the spray paint. He goes right to him jumping.

785
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,839
Speaker 2: He can't he can't get up there. He's have a chair.

786
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 3: So you know, we mentioned at the top of the

787
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 3: show that no money in the bank. And then you know,

788
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,240
Speaker 3: what's with all this concern about language. Obviously it's maybe

789
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 3: of the era everything else going on? How many times

790
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 3: does a character like Mulvaney again, the bank manager, and

791
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 3: we've we've mentioned him a number of times, So Sully

792
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 3: boy are playing Mulvaney. He says at one point, I

793
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 3: think it's him. We've got young girls here. You could

794
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 3: watch your language, you know, like that's a top priority.

795
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 2: I'm a Christian, one of the women says in my ears,

796
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 2: aren't a toilet exactly?

797
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:43,839
Speaker 3: And then the last comedic pic that I can think

798
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 3: of is, how about the recurring bit with Jenny the

799
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 3: teller played by Carol Caine on the phone with her husband,

800
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 3: and if she's telling him how to make his dinner

801
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 3: and then like three hours later, how to put the

802
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 3: baby to bed, how to take care of the baby,

803
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 3: like this Yeah, this is this guy's biggest pro I know.

804
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:04,720
Speaker 2: His stage, but there's something about that that is also

805
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 2: hilarious and just so poignant for me and also sums

806
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 2: up the entire film. This this realism where it's a

807
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 2: bank robbery and we're so used to movies where then

808
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 2: the bank robbery becomes everything. But with this bank robbery,

809
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 2: everyday life still happens it right, Stevie still has to

810
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 2: get home. And that phone call, the first phone call

811
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 2: to her, is he wants to know when you're going

812
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 2: to be through. That's my favorite bit, as you, hey,

813
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 2: I'm being held hostage, but like, hey, I got plans later.

814
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 3: It also speaks to that also speaks to like how

815
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 3: seriously they're taking Sunny right true.

816
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 2: And that reason not to Yeah, and at.

817
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 3: The comedy, obviously it starts to trickle away as the

818
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 3: movie becomes more intense and harrowing. I also real quick

819
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,360
Speaker 3: want to call out Penelope Allen, who plays Sylvia the

820
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 3: head teller. She's responsible and a great good comic bits

821
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 3: she just she sticks up for quote unquote her girls,

822
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 3: you know, and pushes back on Sonny and South.

823
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 2: Penny Allen also in Scarecrow, which we both watched in

824
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 2: preparation for our Gene Hackman Top five. My favorite bit

825
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 2: from her that tells you everything you need to know

826
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 2: about how good she is as an actress, but also

827
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 2: how good how good Sylvia is as a as a

828
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 2: person or what kind of person she is, what her

829
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 2: character is. When she goes outside and they're about to

830
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,359
Speaker 2: go back in and Derning puts his hands on her,

831
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 2: like he's gonna kind of keep her outside, Yeah, and

832
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 2: her her line is, what's with the hands? What's with

833
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 2: the hands? She's like, she's like, she can't believe that

834
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 2: that this cop is touching her. She's going to go

835
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 2: back inside, you know. And I do think that's that's

836
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 2: a great touch. I really like Penny Allen and the SOE.

837
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 2: But Josh, you actually left out you omitted what is

838
00:48:53,960 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 2: I'd say, inarguably both the most heartbreaking and heartbreakingly hilarious

839
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 2: line in this movie, and it's actually probably the most

840
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 2: famous line in the movie. So maybe that's why you

841
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 2: omitted it.

842
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 6: Is there any special country you want to go to?

843
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 2: Wyoming?

844
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,240
Speaker 3: No, Wyoming, that's not a country.

845
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 6: That's what I'm gonna take care of it.

846
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, Why But if he says on the phone, Like,

847
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 2: what are you going to do when your partner in

848
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,959
Speaker 2: this bit doesn't know? Wyoming is not a country? Right?

849
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 2: I mean he says that later, and like the delivery

850
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 2: of Wyoming, the sincerity with which he answers the question

851
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 2: what country do you want to fly to? And he

852
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 2: says where have you always wanted to go? And he

853
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 2: says Wyoming?

854
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:43,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is very I mean.

855
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 2: I can imagine people sitting in the theater in nineteen

856
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 2: seventy five and laughing, but also the situation is so tense,

857
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 2: and you know, he's so serious that you probably stifled

858
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 2: it pretty quickly. I do want to mention the phone call,

859
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 2: and this goes back to I think the point of

860
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 2: view and the withholding point. I was making the phone

861
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 2: call with Leon.

862
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, we got to talk about that.

863
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 2: Such a fantastic and moving scene. And part of what

864
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 2: makes it so, I think, Josh, is that I was

865
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 2: I was really thinking about this as I watched. I

866
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 2: almost fooled myself into thinking because Lumette almost fooled me

867
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 2: into thinking that the police weren't listening.

868
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,719
Speaker 6: Well, these these guys that that that have me down here,

869
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 6: you know, they think I'm they think I'm a part

870
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 6: of it. You know, they think I'm a part of

871
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 6: the plot to rob the bank.

872
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:40,720
Speaker 1: Oh that's crazy, Leon, that's crazy. They just bullshit.

873
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 6: Are giving you a snowshot?

874
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: Well now they told me I was an accessory. No,

875
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: it's just a conjob.

876
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 2: So I have to listen to it. I can't. But

877
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 2: I can't survive in prison.

878
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:54,360
Speaker 1: Sonny, Leah, you're not going to prison. Nobody's going to

879
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:56,760
Speaker 1: because I know you're not going to prison.

880
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 3: Believe me.

881
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 2: Please, what do you just tell them?

882
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 3: Just how him? What that you didn't know it? Just know?

883
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 5: Way am I gonna?

884
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 6: Are they on a phone?

885
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 4: Now?

886
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 6: Are they on the phone?

887
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 5: Now?

888
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:08,240
Speaker 2: Yeah?

889
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 6: That's great?

890
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 5: Leon.

891
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 2: You know, I thought to myself, they have to be.

892
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 2: They have to be. I've seen enough of these movies.

893
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 2: There's no way they were letting them talk and not

894
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 2: listening in. But the conversation goes on long enough. The

895
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 2: conversation seems vulnerable enough and honest enough. It seems as

896
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 2: though Sonny really doesn't feel like there are other people

897
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 2: on the line. It seems like he really believes, and

898
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 2: this is him being naive, that he really believes that

899
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 2: it's just him and Leon. And the way that we

900
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 2: got fooled is that we don't actually see that there

901
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 2: are cops on the line until Sonny finds out that

902
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 2: there are cops on the line. The entire sequence is

903
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 2: shot for multiple minutes, just shot reverse shot, even though

904
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 2: they're in different spaces between Leon and Sonny, and it

905
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 2: isn't until some comes up about the cops listening that

906
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 2: we finally see the other faces that are in the room,

907
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 2: and everything about Sonny's demeanor then changes. Of course, the

908
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:10,720
Speaker 2: conversation isn't as honest and vulnerable then, and it wouldn't

909
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 2: have been had even for us, it would have changed

910
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:17,359
Speaker 2: the dynamic as viewers had we known. It certainly would

911
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 2: have changed it for Sonny had he known, but it

912
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:21,760
Speaker 2: would have changed the dynamic for us. But it feels

913
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 2: like it feels like we're privy to something. We're the

914
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 2: only ones privy to it because we don't know that

915
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 2: the police are listening. So again, very intentional by Lamette.

916
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 2: But here's what else is so fascinating about what Lamette

917
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 2: does there? Watch that shot reverse shot, And how about

918
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 2: Chris Sarandon as Leon first film role. He had like

919
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 2: three TV movies at that point, Josh, that was his

920
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 2: first screen role. They are framed precisely in the center

921
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:54,759
Speaker 2: of the frame. It's like their heads are completely interchangeable.

922
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 2: They are in the same extreme close up, you know,

923
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:05,440
Speaker 2: at the neck real and they're just slightly framed so

924
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,800
Speaker 2: that even though they're dead center. I think it's Sonny

925
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 2: who is looking just slightly left to right on screen,

926
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 2: and Leon might be just looking slightly right to left.

927
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 2: So it feels a little bit like a shot reverse

928
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 2: shot we're used to sing right in a film. It

929
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 2: feels like they're in dialogue with each other. But the

930
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 2: way they're centered in the frame, it feels like there

931
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 2: is some kind of connection across this this space that

932
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 2: they inhabit, and you believe that when you listen to

933
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 2: them talk to each other. Compare that to when he

934
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 2: gets on the phone with Angie. Okay, I know I

935
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 2: let myself get fat.

936
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 6: No, don't call yourself fack.

937
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,439
Speaker 1: Don't call yourself fading.

938
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:51,359
Speaker 2: Say like a kid's standing be in a bike, run

939
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 2: the sunny. That's what love is.

940
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, Well you know what love is, right, Yeah? So

941
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 6: if you know what love is so much, why don't

942
00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 6: you come down here where are you?

943
00:53:59,280 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 2: Well?

944
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 6: Talk to me about love?

945
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 2: Go ahead, I'm scared. The framing is the same in

946
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 2: terms of the close up, but within that frame, they

947
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 2: are both constantly shifting. They're never aligned together in the shot.

948
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 2: It is as if they are both trying to find

949
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 2: some kind of balance, They're both trying to find some

950
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 2: kind of harmony with each other, and they just they

951
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 2: cannot do it. They simply can't do it the way

952
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 2: that he was able to find it with Leon. And

953
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 2: it's subtle, but it's there.

954
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 3: For the call between Sonny and Leon, everything you're describing

955
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 3: to me is all about preserving their privacy and their intimacy.

956
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 3: And obviously we're in on it, but as you said,

957
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 3: in a closer way than we would be if we

958
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 3: knew that the cops were watching and if it wasn't

959
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 3: filmed this way. And part of that is the time

960
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 3: that is given. There are a lot of fast, frantic

961
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:58,879
Speaker 3: conversations in this movie. But here when Sonny and Leon

962
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 3: are on the phone together, loumet and you know I

963
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 3: would I would credit the cinematographer here, Victor Kemper, for

964
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 3: a patience with the camera. They give Sonny and Leanna

965
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 3: time to tell their story, and they give them the

966
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 3: private space to do that we're allowed in but not

967
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 3: we don't know yet, but not many other people are.

968
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 3: And you know you're right. It moves in. The camera

969
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:27,280
Speaker 3: moves into a close up. As Leon is telling the story.

970
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 3: There's a snicker from a cop in the background that

971
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 3: I took to be a critique of the CoP's attitude.

972
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:36,319
Speaker 3: This is one of the things I was curious about

973
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:38,600
Speaker 3: Adam going into Doggeday Afternoon, is how it was going

974
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 3: to handle this storyline. And then we get another slow

975
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 3: move in of the camera, so slow that you might

976
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 3: not even notice it as Leon talks to Sonny, very respectful,

977
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 3: and I do think Sarrandon gives, you know, for the era,

978
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:56,600
Speaker 3: a very a restrained portrayal of someone like this who's

979
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:59,760
Speaker 3: seeking a man seeking gender affirming surgery to become a woman.

980
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 3: He also his credits later noticed this when looking things up,

981
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 3: the voice of Jack Skellington a nightmare before Christmas, So

982
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:11,280
Speaker 3: how about that. But yeah, really wonderful performance here, I think,

983
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 3: and also a very nuanced handling of this storyline, which

984
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 3: I was kind of relieved to see, honestly, in since

985
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 3: it's been what twenty years since I'd last seen this.

986
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 2: Is there anything we have talked for quite a while

987
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 2: about this film. It certainly deserves it. Is there anything

988
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:29,879
Speaker 2: in your notes you feel like we have to get

989
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 2: out before we go?

990
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:32,880
Speaker 3: I mean, I think we touched on the media critique

991
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:36,439
Speaker 3: element enough in how it ties in, as you pointed out,

992
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 3: to the politics. I think that that is crucial. But

993
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 3: it is. It is definitely a major theme to the movie.

994
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 3: And yeah, I don't know that we need to go

995
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 3: over any more of background unless there's something along those

996
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 3: lines you want to touch on. But some might think

997
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 3: we're taking giving that short shrift. But you know, if

998
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 3: you want, if you want the full throated version of that,

999
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,320
Speaker 3: go to Lumette's network. Sure.

1000
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I can't recommend more highly, especially if you

1001
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,959
Speaker 2: haven't seen them. But even if you have, and maybe

1002
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 2: it's been a while, watch Dog Day Afternoon and then

1003
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 2: go watch Inside Man. What a double feature that is.

1004
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 2: Dog Day Afternoon was added to the Film Spotting Pantheon

1005
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 2: back in August twenty eleven, maybe episode three fifty nine,

1006
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 2: our top five Inner City Movies. We're not totally sure.

1007
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 2: We'll have to look at the Film Spotting Guide to

1008
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 2: the Archives. We do know it's in the pantheon. This

1009
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 2: was part of our pantheon project, looking at it here

1010
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 2: on its fiftieth anniversary. I don't know, Josh, do you

1011
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 2: think dog Day should stay in the pantheon?

1012
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 3: Let's keep it?

1013
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 2: Okay, we'll keep it. It's available VOD and streaming on

1014
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 2: Paramount Plus. If you agree or disagree with our takes

1015
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 2: on the film, or you have any other thoughts you'd

1016
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 2: like to share, please email us feedback at film spotting

1017
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 2: dot net. And if you would like to learn more

1018
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 2: about the Film Spotting Pantheon, you can do that at

1019
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 2: filmspotting dot net slash Pantheon.

1020
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 3: Listening is the number one thing you can do to

1021
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 3: support an independently produced show like film Spotting. A couple

1022
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 3: of other things you can do. Take a minute to

1023
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 3: give us a rating or a review on Apple Podcasts

1024
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 3: or Spotify. Here's an even more substantial way you can

1025
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 3: support us. Join the Film Spotting family at film spottingfamily

1026
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 3: dot com. Thank you very much to family member Chris

1027
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 3: Myers in Chaska, Minnesota. Chris's letterbox handle if you want

1028
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 3: to follow him. There is MPLS Underscore film Underscore Nerd.

1029
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 2: Okay, so Minneapolis film Nerd. But you know, with an

1030
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 2: abbreviation there for Minneapolis and some underscores. Chris Wright started

1031
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 2: listening in two thousand and nine. I remember the movie

1032
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 2: Precious being reviewed the first time I listen. Your podcast

1033
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 2: has been in my life now for fifteen years. Thank

1034
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 2: you for putting out such quality content this whole time.

1035
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 2: I recently listened to the review of Kinds of Kindness,

1036
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 2: and when you stuck in a reference to the song

1037
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:51,480
Speaker 2: Little Buddha by Toad the wet Sprocket, I knew I

1038
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 2: had to become a family member. Thank you for sharing

1039
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 2: your love of movies with us all. Don't ever stop.

1040
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 2: You would be sorely missed. So I'm gonna blow Chris's

1041
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 2: for a second here, because you know who else was

1042
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 2: listening to that review of Kinds of Kindness when it

1043
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 2: came out. I think back originally in January when I

1044
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 2: dropped that that random reference to to Little Buddha by

1045
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 2: Toad the wet Sprocket, Dean Dinning, the bass player for

1046
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:23,560
Speaker 2: Toad the wet Sprocket, and his wife, Cole. They happened

1047
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 2: to be longtime film Spotting listeners, it turns out, and

1048
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 2: fellow film Spotting family members. Chris Wow. So they appreciated

1049
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 2: it even more, I imagine so, and they reached out

1050
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 2: very nice to hear from Nicole. Turns out, Josh, that

1051
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 2: Nicole and Dean were at our live show over LA.

1052
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 2: They came to the live show, probably even met us

1053
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 2: before the show, and I didn't make the connection, and

1054
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 2: of course now I regret it. But you know what,

1055
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:57,640
Speaker 2: in a little over a month, Toad the Wet Sprocket

1056
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:01,120
Speaker 2: is playing just a couple hours away from me, and

1057
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 2: I am going to be there. It's going to be great.

1058
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 2: You got to work this into a backstage pass or something.

1059
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 3: Come see.

1060
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 2: We'll see if I can pull some strings. I don't know.

1061
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 2: I don't know if they liked the show that much.

1062
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 2: I don't know a favorite review or segment. I love

1063
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 2: it when you go back to a specific year in

1064
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 2: the past and do a top five for the year.

1065
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 2: Especially I loved any year from the eighties or nineties.

1066
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 2: Those were my formative years when I really fell in

1067
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 2: love with film.

1068
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 3: We're probably due for one of those, don't you think

1069
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 3: it's spent a little while now?

1070
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought you might say that, And actually we

1071
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 2: only have one year from the eighties that's left and

1072
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:40,200
Speaker 2: I think it's nineteen eighty and if you recall, the

1073
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 2: only problem with that is we pretty much agreed that

1074
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 2: there's kind of an obvious five great films.

1075
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:46,959
Speaker 3: From nineteen eighty.

1076
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 2: We thought it was going to be pretty boring. Joint

1077
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 2: list maybe, yeah, maybe a joint list. We'll get to it.

1078
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:57,120
Speaker 2: A review we got wrong, he says. I recently watched Babylon.

1079
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 2: I thought it was amazingly entertaining, an ambitious filmmaking. Surprised

1080
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 2: you guys didn't like it more. I liked it more

1081
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 2: than you.

1082
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 3: But yeah, definitely much for a revisit, for sure, because

1083
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 3: didn't do it more year end Rush and I think so, Yeah,

1084
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:12,960
Speaker 3: should watch it again.

1085
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 2: Letterbox Top four, Magnolia, Fargo, Mulholland Drive two thousand and one,

1086
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 2: great stuff. Favorite movie he revisited recently Indiana Jones and

1087
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 2: The Last Crusade. I hadn't watched this since it came

1088
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 2: out back in nineteen eighty nine. For Father's Day, I

1089
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 2: watched it with my daughter and it was even better

1090
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:30,520
Speaker 2: than I remembered.

1091
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 3: Nice.

1092
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's it's at least for me. Top

1093
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 2: five Spielberg, it might even be Top three Spielberg a

1094
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 2: random film or filmmaker that he loves. David Lynch, a

1095
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 2: movie Chris credits with becoming a cinephile do the right thing,

1096
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:48,240
Speaker 2: and he recommends any of Roger Eberts's review books when

1097
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 2: he thinks about books about movies or movie making. We

1098
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 2: thank Chris for all his years of listening and for

1099
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 2: being part of the Film Spotting Family. In addition to

1100
01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:00,800
Speaker 2: keeping us doing what we're doing, your film'spot family support

1101
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 2: comes with perks. You get to listen early in ED free,

1102
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 2: you get our weekly newsletter, you get exclusive opportunities like

1103
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 2: being part of the Film Spotting Family discord, and you

1104
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 2: get monthly bonus shows coming up soon here, you're going

1105
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 2: to get our Blind Cow review. Josh hasn't seen it.

1106
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,760
Speaker 2: I have, Sam hasn't seen it. Straight Dog a Kira Krosawa.

1107
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:24,520
Speaker 2: It is on the Criterion Channel if you're a subscriber.

1108
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:27,920
Speaker 2: It is also apparently on something called Plex, which I

1109
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 2: believe is free. I think it's playing free on Plex.

1110
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:32,680
Speaker 2: If you need to check out a Kia Kurasawa Straight Dog,

1111
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 2: or you know, look at your local library see if

1112
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 2: you can get it.

1113
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:38,000
Speaker 3: You're gonna be talking about it. My DVD from the

1114
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 3: library tomorrow and watching it then. Can't wait.

1115
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 2: Okay, learn more at film spotting family dot com. Time

1116
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 2: to cut you down, tone, He's not exactly your average kid.

1117
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:56,640
Speaker 2: That's from the English dub of Naja two, which comes

1118
01:02:56,640 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 2: to theaters this weekend. I'm just trusting what I'm reading here.

1119
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 2: Sam's notes. It's right behind three James Cameron movies, an

1120
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:10,280
Speaker 2: Avengers Endgame all time in terms of box office incredible.

1121
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:14,840
Speaker 2: The Chinese animated film is the sequel to twenty nineteen's Neja.

1122
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 2: That's one hundred and forty first all time at the

1123
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 2: global box office. You've done your homework. You saw the

1124
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 2: original and the sequel. There are dragon clans, celestial forces,

1125
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 2: perilous trials, the fate of both mortals and immortals hangs

1126
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 2: in the balance. Also, Neja two is two hours and

1127
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:41,080
Speaker 2: twenty minutes. Now enlighten us on this global phenomenon.

1128
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:44,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, animation fans have to check this out.

1129
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:47,960
Speaker 3: The visuals are astonishing across both films. As you can

1130
01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 3: tell from that description. This sequel widens the world quite

1131
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 3: a bit, and in terms of the animation and the visuals,

1132
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 3: I think that's a benefit. You do lose a little

1133
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:03,959
Speaker 3: bit of the emotional core of the first film, which

1134
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 3: is all about this title character, an impulsively naughty demon

1135
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 3: boy who it's no wonder kids love this character because

1136
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 3: he's somewhat been cursed to be a demon, so he

1137
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:20,000
Speaker 3: gets into all sorts of trouble, causes trouble, doesn't always

1138
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 3: mean to and it's not always his fault, so you

1139
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:26,560
Speaker 3: can see how kids with naughty impulses themselves might enjoy that.

1140
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 3: And there's a lot of amusing humor that comes with

1141
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 3: it and Neja's story. It's interesting because it starts out

1142
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:38,480
Speaker 3: and you think that this sequel is going to explore

1143
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 3: one of the more intriguing themes of the first film,

1144
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 3: which is trying to balance, you know, these warring natures

1145
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:49,920
Speaker 3: inside yourself, because Neja is the fiery spirit, of course,

1146
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:52,600
Speaker 3: and in the first film is another character, al Bing,

1147
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 3: who is basically his ice empowered counterpart. So they balance

1148
01:04:56,880 --> 01:04:59,439
Speaker 3: each other off. They become friends, and at the start

1149
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:02,320
Speaker 3: of Nejaques two, for elaborate reasons I'm not going to

1150
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:05,600
Speaker 3: get into, they have to share the same body, and

1151
01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:09,840
Speaker 3: so there's some humor there, some intriguing battle scenes there,

1152
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:12,360
Speaker 3: and it is all about how to balance your best

1153
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 3: and worst impulses. I think I might have liked Mejuatu

1154
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 3: even more if it had just stuck with that, but

1155
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 3: it kind of drops that after a while to bring

1156
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:26,320
Speaker 3: in a whole host of new characters and new worlds

1157
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:29,640
Speaker 3: and new realities. I didn't mind so much because this

1158
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 3: just looks so incredible, Adam, and my screening was Imax

1159
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:38,920
Speaker 3: in three D. There is a brightness and a clarity

1160
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 3: to these action sequences, the line work of the characters,

1161
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 3: and the movement going on. That is it's like an

1162
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 3: oasis for those of us who have become dulled by

1163
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:59,160
Speaker 3: the drudgery of the effects in the later MCU movies, say,

1164
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:01,880
Speaker 3: just to see this level of brightness and clarity is

1165
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:05,560
Speaker 3: so refreshing. And you get these amazingly imaginative things like

1166
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:10,680
Speaker 3: these sea themed abyss monsters. There's slithering dragons. There's a

1167
01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:15,000
Speaker 3: jade palace that's resplendent with fountains, It's watched over by

1168
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:17,200
Speaker 3: a flock of jade birds. All this stuff is just

1169
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 3: washing over you. And a climactic image of a gigantic

1170
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 3: tree that I don't want to give away, but it's

1171
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:29,680
Speaker 3: almost worth it to whether a lot of the lore

1172
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:33,240
Speaker 3: and the mythology to get to an image like that

1173
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:38,280
Speaker 3: for me. So yeah, I think this movie's biggest accomplishment

1174
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 3: is kind of maximalizing nature to these really awesomely cosmic proportions,

1175
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:47,520
Speaker 3: and you can get lost in that. So would recommend,

1176
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 3: of course seeing Nijah first if you haven't, to get

1177
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:54,160
Speaker 3: a real hold of that character, that central character, and

1178
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:57,040
Speaker 3: then go out find a big screen. I saw it

1179
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 3: one of the regals here in Chicago and let Neja

1180
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 3: to just wash over.

1181
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:06,720
Speaker 2: You Maja too. The English dub is out in wide release.

1182
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 2: What is going on? No dogs allowed in the blog park.

1183
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:22,080
Speaker 3: Just take it up with the mayor, Bubo.

1184
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:26,960
Speaker 2: I also wanted to mention aj goes to the dog park, Josh.

1185
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:29,160
Speaker 2: This is a new movie that's written and directed by

1186
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:33,240
Speaker 2: Toby Jones, who is an animator that works on Regular

1187
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:37,360
Speaker 2: Show and Okay Ko Let's Be Heroes. The movie opened

1188
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:41,840
Speaker 2: theatrically at the end of July in La New York, Austin, DC,

1189
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:44,840
Speaker 2: and Seattle. It played at the Music Box in Chicago.

1190
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:47,840
Speaker 2: And there are a couple people, at least a couple

1191
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:52,200
Speaker 2: of people associated with this movie who are film spotting listeners.

1192
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 2: So I'm not going to give it a normal review,

1193
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:57,960
Speaker 2: but I wanted to mention that I don't think it's

1194
01:07:57,960 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 2: playing in theaters anymore, but on August twenty six it

1195
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:05,400
Speaker 2: will be available vod and I watched it and something

1196
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 2: that speaks to the sensibility and the manic energy of

1197
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 2: this film. It's about eighty minutes long. My daughter, who's five,

1198
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 2: walked in maybe about thirty minutes into it, and again

1199
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:27,280
Speaker 2: she's five. She walks up to the television and then

1200
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:32,720
Speaker 2: proceeds to stand there and watch the entire rest of

1201
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:36,400
Speaker 2: the movie. She has no idea what's going on, but

1202
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:42,519
Speaker 2: she is so transfixed by the chaos that's happening on screen.

1203
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:46,680
Speaker 2: A lot of it actually cartoonish, because of course there

1204
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:51,120
Speaker 2: is animation here as well, But it is that energy

1205
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:54,960
Speaker 2: about it. It is the nonsensical nature of it. It

1206
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 2: is the fact that it is a joke every five

1207
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:02,320
Speaker 2: seconds or in this film. But also it's a very

1208
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:08,200
Speaker 2: sweetly sincere movie at its core. It has a DIY,

1209
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:14,479
Speaker 2: very intentional DIY esthetic to it. The movie at times

1210
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:19,639
Speaker 2: feels like what you might get if you mixed something

1211
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:26,360
Speaker 2: like The Room with SpongeBob SquarePants. That's what I felt

1212
01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:29,120
Speaker 2: like watching aj Goes to the Dog Park and if

1213
01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:31,640
Speaker 2: that sounds like it might appeal to you, then you

1214
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 2: might like the film, which is available VOD on August

1215
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 2: twenty six.

1216
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:40,559
Speaker 3: Congrats to Toby and all the other listeners involved. Very exciting.

1217
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:43,680
Speaker 2: We did also want to take a moment here to

1218
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:47,720
Speaker 2: acknowledge the passing of British actor Terrence Stamp. He has

1219
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:50,840
Speaker 2: credits going back to the early sixties. I love him

1220
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:55,200
Speaker 2: in Peter Eustinov's Billy Bud from nineteen sixty two. He's

1221
01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:58,280
Speaker 2: in Far from the Matting Crowd, the John Schlessinger film

1222
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:02,960
Speaker 2: with the Julie Christi Zod of course, in Superman.

1223
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:12,240
Speaker 3: Two, Rise Before Zode No Neil Before.

1224
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:16,280
Speaker 2: He's in the Adventures of Briscilla, Queen of the Desert

1225
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:19,080
Speaker 2: with Hugo Weaving and Guy Pierce, The Limy, the Steven

1226
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:22,760
Speaker 2: Soderberg film in ninety nine. His last film credit was

1227
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:27,000
Speaker 2: Edgar Wright's Last Night in Soho do you associate any

1228
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:29,799
Speaker 2: film in particular with Terreen Stamp.

1229
01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:34,599
Speaker 3: I mean, the nostalgia part of me goes with Zod, right,

1230
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:37,960
Speaker 3: but I think it should probably be The Limy because

1231
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:43,679
Speaker 3: he's such an important fixture and factor in that movie,

1232
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 3: even though I think the editing scheme, I think Soderberg

1233
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:50,240
Speaker 3: thinks the editing scheme is the star. And that doesn't

1234
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 3: mean that I think Soderberg is discounting, you know, Stamp

1235
01:10:54,160 --> 01:10:56,360
Speaker 3: at all. Obviously he cast him because he's a legend.

1236
01:10:57,160 --> 01:10:59,520
Speaker 3: But I do think that's maybe like the top priority

1237
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:01,800
Speaker 3: of the line from a filmmaking point of view is

1238
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:05,200
Speaker 3: the editing. And yet somehow Stamp is like, I don't

1239
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:07,360
Speaker 3: care if you if you're only going to give me

1240
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:10,519
Speaker 3: one and a half seconds before you cut somewhere else,

1241
01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:12,880
Speaker 3: I'm gonna grab that one and a half seconds by

1242
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:16,360
Speaker 3: the throat. And maybe that's kind of how he approached

1243
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:19,280
Speaker 3: all of his roles. He had that ferocity. Mm hmm.

1244
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:22,240
Speaker 2: I think about the Limey for sure. Of course, like you,

1245
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:26,719
Speaker 2: I'm going to go back to Superman two. The Collector.

1246
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:31,600
Speaker 2: H late William Wyler film is another tern Stamp performance

1247
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:34,520
Speaker 2: I do think of pretty fondly. And there's a Pazzolini

1248
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:38,599
Speaker 2: film called Tao Rema that's very notable as well, partly

1249
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:42,840
Speaker 2: because a pretty good movie from this year, miser Acordia.

1250
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:45,960
Speaker 2: If you've seen it, or if you haven't seen it yet,

1251
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:50,080
Speaker 2: watch that film and then if you haven't seen Tao Rema,

1252
01:11:50,120 --> 01:11:52,160
Speaker 2: the Pozzolini film, you have to watch it because it's

1253
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 2: clearly a touchstone for that movie. And the main character

1254
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:59,240
Speaker 2: in Miseracordia has to be a character who's drawn from

1255
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:02,800
Speaker 2: the character or stamp plays in that film. Once I

1256
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:06,559
Speaker 2: made that connection, it unlocked for me what was going

1257
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:11,320
Speaker 2: on in Miseracordia. I do want to note that the

1258
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:16,200
Speaker 2: timing of this was crazy. I got asked to appear

1259
01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:19,200
Speaker 2: on a podcast that I've been on once before, called

1260
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:22,920
Speaker 2: Movie of the Year, with a couple other guys. One

1261
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:24,960
Speaker 2: of them three other guys. One of them is a

1262
01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 2: long time film spotting listener, Ryan Haley. They look at movies.

1263
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:32,400
Speaker 2: They pick a handful of movies that are well known

1264
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:35,400
Speaker 2: and usually pretty acclaimed from a certain movie year, and

1265
01:12:35,439 --> 01:12:38,080
Speaker 2: at the end they have different guests on they talk

1266
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:40,320
Speaker 2: about each one and they try to crown a winner

1267
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:44,040
Speaker 2: from that year. They gave me a list from nineteen

1268
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:47,960
Speaker 2: ninety nine several months ago, and the one I picked

1269
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:51,439
Speaker 2: Josh because I hadn't seen it in so long. I

1270
01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:53,960
Speaker 2: don't think I've seen it since it came out in

1271
01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:58,839
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety nine was Thelmy. I wanted to rewatch the limy.

1272
01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:03,080
Speaker 2: You know, I'm a Soderberg guy. I recall that I

1273
01:13:03,080 --> 01:13:05,800
Speaker 2: had fond feelings for it. I actually hadn't looked at

1274
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:08,439
Speaker 2: where I ranked it on my Soderbergh list until I

1275
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:11,160
Speaker 2: was recording the podcast the other night. I didn't realize

1276
01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:13,000
Speaker 2: I had it quite so high. I actually have it

1277
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:16,320
Speaker 2: fourth on the list. Take that for what it's worth.

1278
01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:19,200
Speaker 2: I haven't seen it until recently, until or going back

1279
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:23,040
Speaker 2: to nineteen ninety nine, but I have it fourth. I

1280
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:25,400
Speaker 2: wanted to see it partly because for me, I think

1281
01:13:25,439 --> 01:13:27,840
Speaker 2: about it. As much as I like Terrence Stamp and

1282
01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:30,760
Speaker 2: as much as I like Soderbergh, I was like, is

1283
01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:33,160
Speaker 2: this just the movie where I'm gonna watch and enjoy

1284
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:36,679
Speaker 2: I'm gonna kind of relish this revenge flick Stamp being

1285
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:40,240
Speaker 2: this badass on screen and Soderberg doing the Soderbergh thing

1286
01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:42,800
Speaker 2: with the nonlinear editing, or is there going to be

1287
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:46,040
Speaker 2: something more to this film to grasp onto? That was

1288
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:49,920
Speaker 2: what I wanted to see. Guess what, I thought there

1289
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:54,040
Speaker 2: was a lot more to grasp onto. I do understand

1290
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:56,360
Speaker 2: what you're saying, and I think that's a legitimate concern.

1291
01:13:57,400 --> 01:13:59,720
Speaker 2: But not only do I think, you know, I think

1292
01:13:59,960 --> 01:14:03,680
Speaker 2: or Stamp's performance is really great in the movie. I

1293
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:09,360
Speaker 2: came to feel like the editing so serves the story ultimately. Sure,

1294
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:14,000
Speaker 2: and it didn't feel to me just like Soderberg was

1295
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 2: trying to be flashy so much as I know some

1296
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 2: people feel like he might he might want to do

1297
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:23,320
Speaker 2: on occasion, or he's he's just experimenting a little bit

1298
01:14:23,320 --> 01:14:27,439
Speaker 2: too much. Man, does it fit with what that movie

1299
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:31,880
Speaker 2: I think is really trying to wrestle with. So you

1300
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:33,760
Speaker 2: can hear me talk about that. I thought we had

1301
01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:36,800
Speaker 2: a really good conversation on Movie of the Year podcast.

1302
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:39,800
Speaker 2: You can hear that if you're curious when it comes out.

1303
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:43,519
Speaker 2: That episode is going to drop, I think on September fourth,

1304
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:47,200
Speaker 2: So when we get closer, I'll mention it. I'll put

1305
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:49,560
Speaker 2: a link in our show notes, but you have to

1306
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 2: wait a couple of weeks. But the timing I mentioned though, Josh,

1307
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:55,599
Speaker 2: not only did I just rewatch the Limey and record

1308
01:14:55,640 --> 01:15:00,479
Speaker 2: this podcast, but we taped the podcast on Sunday the

1309
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:04,280
Speaker 2: seventeenth in the evening and woke up that morning and

1310
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:08,120
Speaker 2: heard the news that he had passed away. So really

1311
01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:11,960
Speaker 2: really sad and unfortunate, but I was really glad that

1312
01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:15,240
Speaker 2: I had the occasion to not just have him be

1313
01:15:15,320 --> 01:15:18,479
Speaker 2: a distant memory, but have this really fresh experience with

1314
01:15:19,080 --> 01:15:23,160
Speaker 2: him on screen and be able to remember, to very

1315
01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:27,040
Speaker 2: vividly recall just how great he was on screen. What

1316
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:32,120
Speaker 2: a face you're turning, You're telling you I'm coming, time,

1317
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:39,080
Speaker 2: I'm coming. We also wanted to discuss some more unfortunate

1318
01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:43,960
Speaker 2: news which relates to our friend Michael Phillips, someone you

1319
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:49,360
Speaker 2: hear very frequently on this podcast, and he posted it

1320
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:54,599
Speaker 2: as we're recording this on his social media channels earlier today.

1321
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:57,320
Speaker 2: It's something he did share with us a little bit

1322
01:15:57,479 --> 01:16:01,840
Speaker 2: in advance, and we knew it was was coming. Which

1323
01:16:02,120 --> 01:16:07,280
Speaker 2: is that somehow Josh the city of Chicago, the city

1324
01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:10,240
Speaker 2: that gave us Siskel and Ebert the rival film critics

1325
01:16:10,240 --> 01:16:13,280
Speaker 2: from the Chicago Tribune in the Chicago Sun Times, there's

1326
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:18,479
Speaker 2: no more print. Film critics sometimes doesn't have one, and

1327
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:23,679
Speaker 2: the Tribune no longer has one. Michael Phillips was offered

1328
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:28,439
Speaker 2: an assignment, a reassignment, or offered to take a buyout,

1329
01:16:28,479 --> 01:16:30,559
Speaker 2: and he decided to take a buyout, and as he

1330
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:33,240
Speaker 2: put it, time for something new somewhere else, and he'll

1331
01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:36,000
Speaker 2: have an exit column later in the week, so by

1332
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:38,919
Speaker 2: the time you're hearing this, that exit column will probably

1333
01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:42,639
Speaker 2: be posted over at Chicago Tribune dot com slash movies.

1334
01:16:42,680 --> 01:16:45,599
Speaker 2: He mentions in his posts that he'll still be appearing

1335
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:51,080
Speaker 2: on Film Spotting and on WFMT on Saturdays in Chicago

1336
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:54,320
Speaker 2: on that radio station. We will still be featuring him here,

1337
01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:56,120
Speaker 2: but he's going to take some time to figure out

1338
01:16:56,120 --> 01:16:57,360
Speaker 2: what he's going to do next.

1339
01:16:58,360 --> 01:17:01,840
Speaker 3: Not only to the trip and sometimes not have a

1340
01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:04,799
Speaker 3: full time film critic. And I haven't done the research

1341
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:07,200
Speaker 3: on this, but I don't think there's a full time

1342
01:17:07,200 --> 01:17:09,720
Speaker 3: film critic working in Chicago or the suburbs right now.

1343
01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:11,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and in print.

1344
01:17:11,880 --> 01:17:14,439
Speaker 3: I don't know, even like digitally, like full time, like

1345
01:17:14,479 --> 01:17:17,280
Speaker 3: that's your job. You know, I might be wrong. I

1346
01:17:17,320 --> 01:17:19,880
Speaker 3: would love to hear that I am, and you know,

1347
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:22,280
Speaker 3: reach out to me if you're out there and you're

1348
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:24,920
Speaker 3: you're doing that, which is a travesty for a city

1349
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:27,200
Speaker 3: like Chicago. And I'm not just talking about its size.

1350
01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:30,080
Speaker 3: It's it's not just because it's a huge city. It's

1351
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:33,120
Speaker 3: because it's a film culture city. As you said, going

1352
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:37,479
Speaker 3: back to Cisco and Ebert and others and the fact

1353
01:17:37,479 --> 01:17:39,800
Speaker 3: that there's a thriving film scene here. I mean, we

1354
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:44,320
Speaker 3: have so many great theaters doing work in terms of

1355
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:49,960
Speaker 3: programming that's interesting and international film, independent film. There is

1356
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:53,879
Speaker 3: plenty here going on to devote a full time position

1357
01:17:54,479 --> 01:17:57,320
Speaker 3: to cover, is the point. So this is just more

1358
01:17:57,360 --> 01:18:00,040
Speaker 3: evidence of what's going on in the media overall. We

1359
01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:03,640
Speaker 3: almost we hear about either a critic we know, or

1360
01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:07,600
Speaker 3: they're just colleagues whose work we know almost monthly that

1361
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:10,679
Speaker 3: this is happening to. And when I shared Michael's news

1362
01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:14,280
Speaker 3: on Blue Sky, you know, it struck me that this one,

1363
01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:17,040
Speaker 3: of course is especially painful because not only is as

1364
01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:19,599
Speaker 3: you said, Michael a friend just hung out with him

1365
01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:22,360
Speaker 3: socially this weekend, but I grew up in a trip household.

1366
01:18:22,680 --> 01:18:26,200
Speaker 3: I mean I read Siskel at home and then I

1367
01:18:26,240 --> 01:18:29,320
Speaker 3: read Ebert at the school library in the Sun Times.

1368
01:18:29,720 --> 01:18:32,320
Speaker 3: I remember when the Tribune had two critics, you know,

1369
01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:37,120
Speaker 3: after Michael Phillips, Michael Wilmington was there and Dave Kerr

1370
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:37,639
Speaker 3: was there.

1371
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:38,639
Speaker 2: Wow.

1372
01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:43,479
Speaker 3: I mean, the degree to which culture has eroded on

1373
01:18:43,479 --> 01:18:47,800
Speaker 3: this front is, as everyone listening to the show knowsvsting

1374
01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:51,880
Speaker 3: is devastating. So I'm at least glad you know, podcasts

1375
01:18:52,920 --> 01:18:56,879
Speaker 3: are a place where this is still happening, and Michael

1376
01:18:57,880 --> 01:18:59,880
Speaker 3: through us can still you know, be a part of

1377
01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:03,679
Speaker 3: the film conversation that way. That is some silver lining,

1378
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:04,080
Speaker 3: I guess.

1379
01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:06,800
Speaker 2: And all this, Yeah, you will hear Michael back on

1380
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:10,720
Speaker 2: the show in September and throughout the year here on

1381
01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:13,160
Speaker 2: Film Spotting. Will keep you posted as we hear more.

1382
01:19:13,200 --> 01:19:16,840
Speaker 2: Michael will keep you posted as he comes up with more,

1383
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:19,800
Speaker 2: He'll share that with you here on the show. Some

1384
01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:23,920
Speaker 2: other housekeeping we wanted to make you aware of. We

1385
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:29,120
Speaker 2: recently had a Film Spotting Family Advisory Board meeting and

1386
01:19:29,160 --> 01:19:32,440
Speaker 2: we were looking at some other movies that were celebrating

1387
01:19:32,479 --> 01:19:37,480
Speaker 2: anniversaries this year but aren't tied to our pantheon project,

1388
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:42,240
Speaker 2: movies that would just be sacred col reviews. Thinking about

1389
01:19:42,240 --> 01:19:46,880
Speaker 2: which ones we want to make priorities and really focus on,

1390
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:50,519
Speaker 2: and it was hard to just narrow it down to ten, honestly,

1391
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:54,240
Speaker 2: because there are so many that are worth talking about,

1392
01:19:54,240 --> 01:19:58,040
Speaker 2: movies that are celebrating fifteenth anniversaries or thirtieth anniversaries on

1393
01:19:58,160 --> 01:20:02,080
Speaker 2: up to seventy fifth and eightieth anniversaries. We gave the

1394
01:20:02,160 --> 01:20:05,000
Speaker 2: Advisory board a chance to vote on these ten to

1395
01:20:05,080 --> 01:20:07,360
Speaker 2: rank them, and then we looked at how the results

1396
01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:11,719
Speaker 2: shook out. We also shared our top five me you, Josh,

1397
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:16,400
Speaker 2: and of course producer Sam. I'll just briefly hear share

1398
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:20,680
Speaker 2: what emerged as the top three from the family, and

1399
01:20:20,960 --> 01:20:24,280
Speaker 2: we were pretty well aligned. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon for

1400
01:20:24,360 --> 01:20:27,320
Speaker 2: its twenty fifth was one that we all seemed pretty

1401
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:30,800
Speaker 2: well aligned on. Heat for its thirtieth anniversary was another

1402
01:20:30,840 --> 01:20:33,479
Speaker 2: one that there was a lot of eagerness to hear,

1403
01:20:33,880 --> 01:20:38,960
Speaker 2: and the fab also in particular, was excited about all

1404
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:42,720
Speaker 2: about Eve celebrating its seventy fifth anniversary.

1405
01:20:43,200 --> 01:20:46,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, can't wait to get to all of these And

1406
01:20:46,680 --> 01:20:49,639
Speaker 3: what's the process from here now? I don't know putting

1407
01:20:49,640 --> 01:20:52,520
Speaker 3: this out to the wider family vote.

1408
01:20:52,280 --> 01:20:53,080
Speaker 2: It's a good question.

1409
01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:56,320
Speaker 3: Okay, we'll figure that out. But just a note along

1410
01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:59,240
Speaker 3: those lines, like, this isn't some secret council. If you

1411
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:01,360
Speaker 3: want to be part of the Film Spotting Advisory Board,

1412
01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:04,160
Speaker 3: it is open to It's open to anyone. If you're

1413
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:07,000
Speaker 3: already a member of the Film Spotting Family, it's just

1414
01:21:07,200 --> 01:21:09,679
Speaker 3: a different tier you can join. If you haven't joined

1415
01:21:09,680 --> 01:21:13,040
Speaker 3: the family at all, jump in and jump in at

1416
01:21:13,080 --> 01:21:16,519
Speaker 3: the top. You can meet with us have conversations like

1417
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:19,320
Speaker 3: this and really direct the content of the show.

1418
01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:24,080
Speaker 2: Plugged like an absolute pro there, Josh, and join the family,

1419
01:21:24,479 --> 01:21:27,160
Speaker 2: especially if you want to direct us to talk about

1420
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:29,880
Speaker 2: Rocky four for its fortieth anniversary like I want to.

1421
01:21:30,479 --> 01:21:33,920
Speaker 2: It was an option, so that option that didn't farewell.

1422
01:21:34,200 --> 01:21:37,799
Speaker 2: If you feel passionately about Rocky four did in quickly.

1423
01:21:38,640 --> 01:21:38,800
Speaker 3: So.

1424
01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:41,800
Speaker 2: Another part of the call that we devoted time to,

1425
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:45,000
Speaker 2: not enough, but we devoted time to was Film Spotting

1426
01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:47,559
Speaker 2: Madness twenty twenty six. If you're a regular listener of

1427
01:21:47,560 --> 01:21:51,600
Speaker 2: the show, you know that we are planning to probably

1428
01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:58,879
Speaker 2: conclude our decades approach the nineteen forties. We have shared

1429
01:21:59,120 --> 01:22:02,640
Speaker 2: the shortlist. The shortlist is the list of movies that

1430
01:22:03,080 --> 01:22:07,120
Speaker 2: Sam and I the selection committee, planned to choose from

1431
01:22:07,479 --> 01:22:11,839
Speaker 2: when putting together the final tournament field. That means sixty

1432
01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:15,799
Speaker 2: four movies but also usually maybe up to about twenty

1433
01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:20,759
Speaker 2: more that are inclusive of play ince. But the shortlist

1434
01:22:20,800 --> 01:22:25,120
Speaker 2: then goes even beyond that because we just can't decide.

1435
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:29,439
Speaker 2: We need the deadline usually of it being February to

1436
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:33,280
Speaker 2: force us to actually decide on those seventy five to

1437
01:22:33,320 --> 01:22:35,840
Speaker 2: eighty films, and we don't want to make people mad.

1438
01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:38,240
Speaker 2: So we're just like, sure, here's the shortlist, here's one

1439
01:22:38,360 --> 01:22:41,360
Speaker 2: hundred and twelve movies. Well, we gave you those one

1440
01:22:41,439 --> 01:22:44,679
Speaker 2: hundred and twelve movies earlier than ever, and we were

1441
01:22:44,720 --> 01:22:48,240
Speaker 2: feeling pretty good about ourselves. But then we had a

1442
01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:50,880
Speaker 2: family member who you heard from last week, if you

1443
01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:54,120
Speaker 2: heard his his twentieth anniversary message that he sent Eric

1444
01:22:54,120 --> 01:22:57,240
Speaker 2: Nelson racing in Wisconsin. He crunched a bunch of numbers

1445
01:22:57,280 --> 01:23:00,680
Speaker 2: and he pointed out what we knew, but really just

1446
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:04,040
Speaker 2: the vast disparity between the number of films people, as

1447
01:23:04,080 --> 01:23:08,320
Speaker 2: you would imagine have seen Josh like on letterboxed the

1448
01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:11,559
Speaker 2: number of films people have logged from the twenty tens,

1449
01:23:11,640 --> 01:23:15,719
Speaker 2: the two thousand's, the nineties, the eighties, even versus decades

1450
01:23:15,720 --> 01:23:19,560
Speaker 2: like the fifties and forties. And we want people to participate.

1451
01:23:19,640 --> 01:23:22,880
Speaker 2: We want people to be interested in the conversations we're

1452
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:26,880
Speaker 2: having about these movies, to vote and just to see

1453
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:31,120
Speaker 2: these movies, to care about film spotting madness. So the

1454
01:23:31,160 --> 01:23:34,000
Speaker 2: point of the conversation was what can we do, What

1455
01:23:34,040 --> 01:23:37,040
Speaker 2: can we do as a show to not just say, hey,

1456
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:40,080
Speaker 2: here's the short list, And then nine months later, the

1457
01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:43,639
Speaker 2: tournament starts, what can we do to encourage people even

1458
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:48,479
Speaker 2: more to see these movies and be ready? And what

1459
01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:52,200
Speaker 2: I thought was so funny about this, Josh, is that

1460
01:23:52,760 --> 01:23:55,160
Speaker 2: all this thought and energy went into this conversation, and

1461
01:23:55,920 --> 01:23:58,799
Speaker 2: I'm racking my brain and I'm looking to the family,

1462
01:23:59,000 --> 01:24:02,080
Speaker 2: to the advisory Bold to come up with brilliant ideas.

1463
01:24:02,320 --> 01:24:04,719
Speaker 2: And thank god he didn't say it in any kind

1464
01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:11,840
Speaker 2: of disparaging or sarcastic way. But one FAB member, Scott Bosh,

1465
01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:17,120
Speaker 2: raises his hand and he says, you know, the easiest

1466
01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:23,200
Speaker 2: way to get me more involved so I can vote

1467
01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:28,280
Speaker 2: in all the polls would be to just post the

1468
01:24:28,320 --> 01:24:30,240
Speaker 2: final list of all the movies that are going to

1469
01:24:30,280 --> 01:24:36,200
Speaker 2: be in Madness as early as possible. And I don't

1470
01:24:36,200 --> 01:24:39,000
Speaker 2: know if people on the call saw like all the

1471
01:24:39,080 --> 01:24:43,080
Speaker 2: blood drained from my face, because I realize all this

1472
01:24:43,240 --> 01:24:46,840
Speaker 2: consternation and the fact is the easiest way to get

1473
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:50,760
Speaker 2: people to participate even more would be to just give

1474
01:24:50,840 --> 01:24:54,839
Speaker 2: them the final list of films as early as possible,

1475
01:24:55,439 --> 01:25:01,200
Speaker 2: did not have them waste their time watching potentially thirty

1476
01:25:01,200 --> 01:25:04,879
Speaker 2: to forty movies that aren't even going to make the tournament.

1477
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:09,080
Speaker 2: It's a good point it's a great point, Scott, and

1478
01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:11,719
Speaker 2: this is why we have these Film Spotting Advisory Board calls.

1479
01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:14,559
Speaker 3: So it's basically to get our heads out of our asses.

1480
01:25:15,200 --> 01:25:20,519
Speaker 2: This is the point, Josh is It's it's about film

1481
01:25:20,520 --> 01:25:24,800
Speaker 2: Spotting needing our listeners or else the show would die.

1482
01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:29,280
Speaker 2: Our best ideas have always come from our audience, and

1483
01:25:29,720 --> 01:25:32,760
Speaker 2: that weekend I set about in collaboration with Sam to

1484
01:25:32,840 --> 01:25:38,799
Speaker 2: rectify this. So in summary, the Film Spotting Madness final

1485
01:25:38,920 --> 01:25:43,240
Speaker 2: list is available now. One hundred and twelve movies has

1486
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:46,600
Speaker 2: been pared down to eighty. These are the eighty we

1487
01:25:46,720 --> 01:25:49,960
Speaker 2: think will be in the final bracket, with plans it

1488
01:25:50,080 --> 01:25:53,960
Speaker 2: could decrease slightly because maybe we'll find that some movies

1489
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:56,880
Speaker 2: are not available on digital platforms and if you can't

1490
01:25:56,920 --> 01:25:59,040
Speaker 2: see them then there's really no point in having them

1491
01:25:59,080 --> 01:26:01,160
Speaker 2: be part of Madness. But these are the eighty we're

1492
01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:03,840
Speaker 2: expecting to be in the tournament. So if you're doing

1493
01:26:03,840 --> 01:26:05,960
Speaker 2: your homework or you want to do your homework between

1494
01:26:05,960 --> 01:26:08,919
Speaker 2: now and the start of Film Spotting Madness nineteen forties,

1495
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:12,680
Speaker 2: we're at least giving you the eighty films that are

1496
01:26:12,720 --> 01:26:14,920
Speaker 2: going to be part of it, and you can start

1497
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:18,040
Speaker 2: crossing off the ones that are the biggest blind spots

1498
01:26:18,080 --> 01:26:19,519
Speaker 2: for you anyway, if you don't think you're going to

1499
01:26:19,520 --> 01:26:21,080
Speaker 2: get to all of them. So we'll put the link

1500
01:26:21,240 --> 01:26:24,720
Speaker 2: in our show notes here at our website, and you

1501
01:26:24,760 --> 01:26:27,720
Speaker 2: can always go to filmspotting dot net slash madness.

1502
01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:31,240
Speaker 3: So I'm excited about this because, as you know, Adam,

1503
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:34,559
Speaker 3: my favorite thing about film Spotting Madness is not all

1504
01:26:34,680 --> 01:26:38,720
Speaker 3: the planning, the consternation, the back and forth, basically the

1505
01:26:38,720 --> 01:26:42,200
Speaker 3: stuff that Scott said was unnecessary. My excitement about film

1506
01:26:42,200 --> 01:26:45,960
Speaker 3: Spotting Madness is getting to see and having motivation to

1507
01:26:46,040 --> 01:26:48,720
Speaker 3: knock off blind spots depending on what the theme is, right,

1508
01:26:48,760 --> 01:26:49,080
Speaker 3: I mean.

1509
01:26:49,040 --> 01:26:51,439
Speaker 2: That's what you're fun, That's what drives it all anyway.

1510
01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:54,680
Speaker 3: Exactly last year was fun. We did you know the

1511
01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:58,479
Speaker 3: best of you know this century? So twenty to twenty

1512
01:26:58,560 --> 01:27:01,320
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, that's fun. But I really like when

1513
01:27:01,360 --> 01:27:02,920
Speaker 3: we do something like the forties and then I look

1514
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:04,640
Speaker 3: at the list you and say, IM put together and

1515
01:27:04,640 --> 01:27:07,320
Speaker 3: what do I see? Stray Dog? Well, I get to

1516
01:27:07,840 --> 01:27:10,559
Speaker 3: another film Spotting Family plug. I get to knock that

1517
01:27:10,600 --> 01:27:12,839
Speaker 3: out because it's going to be an upcoming bonus episode

1518
01:27:12,880 --> 01:27:15,760
Speaker 3: right for film Spotting family members. But something like my

1519
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:19,479
Speaker 3: darlingne Clementine, red River? What else do I see here?

1520
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:23,479
Speaker 3: The Lost Weekend? Yeah, who, I'm a fraud. I'm a

1521
01:27:23,520 --> 01:27:27,200
Speaker 3: fraud at them. But now because of film Spotting Madness,

1522
01:27:27,240 --> 01:27:30,200
Speaker 3: I just have that one extra reason, that one nudge

1523
01:27:30,240 --> 01:27:32,639
Speaker 3: to watch. And those are just three of the films

1524
01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:34,280
Speaker 3: that I haven't seen that are on the short list.

1525
01:27:34,280 --> 01:27:37,559
Speaker 3: So yeah, great idea. You know, maybe an obvious one, Scott,

1526
01:27:38,120 --> 01:27:40,840
Speaker 3: but that's what you're there for to point that out

1527
01:27:40,880 --> 01:27:44,640
Speaker 3: to us and get on it anyone who wants to

1528
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:47,400
Speaker 3: play film Spotting Madness in a couple of months.

1529
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:50,960
Speaker 2: What's fun too, is that And we discuss this a

1530
01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:54,559
Speaker 2: little while back actually in the film Spotting Slack. Your

1531
01:27:54,600 --> 01:27:58,040
Speaker 2: biggest like five to seven blind spots I've seen, and

1532
01:27:58,120 --> 01:28:01,519
Speaker 2: my biggest five to seven blind spots you've seen, of course,

1533
01:28:01,800 --> 01:28:04,040
Speaker 2: so we can't even really knock them off together. And

1534
01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:06,760
Speaker 2: that's why we're doing Stray Dog and it's a blind cow.

1535
01:28:06,840 --> 01:28:09,120
Speaker 2: I've already seen that film. I've seen red River, I've

1536
01:28:09,120 --> 01:28:12,320
Speaker 2: seen my Darling Clementine, I've seen The Last Weekend. You

1537
01:28:12,479 --> 01:28:14,439
Speaker 2: have seen some of the other ones I need to see,

1538
01:28:14,600 --> 01:28:19,599
Speaker 2: like Gaslight for example. So fun and what else I

1539
01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:23,559
Speaker 2: need to see. Oh, you've seen Late Spring. I think

1540
01:28:23,640 --> 01:28:26,240
Speaker 2: that's a zoo I need to see. There are a

1541
01:28:26,280 --> 01:28:29,200
Speaker 2: few others on here. All the King's Men is a

1542
01:28:29,240 --> 01:28:31,160
Speaker 2: big blind spot for me.

1543
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:33,439
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's gonna be fun.

1544
01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:35,559
Speaker 2: We have some good stuff to cross off, and that

1545
01:28:35,800 --> 01:28:39,400
Speaker 2: is ultimately the purpose of film spotting Madness. Now we

1546
01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:45,519
Speaker 2: have some personal news about you, Josh, to go to

1547
01:28:45,680 --> 01:28:48,599
Speaker 2: counter the professional news with Michael, and this is good

1548
01:28:48,640 --> 01:28:50,839
Speaker 2: news that you're gonna share with your audience.

1549
01:28:51,080 --> 01:28:56,040
Speaker 3: Yes, a good point, just to lead with that. I

1550
01:28:56,080 --> 01:28:58,479
Speaker 3: am going to be heading off to Scotland. Debbie and

1551
01:28:58,560 --> 01:29:02,920
Speaker 3: I in actually two weeks from recording this, and I

1552
01:29:02,960 --> 01:29:06,439
Speaker 3: shared this with the Film Spotting Advisory Board last week.

1553
01:29:06,479 --> 01:29:09,720
Speaker 3: It's a temporary move, but I'm going to be pursuing

1554
01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:13,560
Speaker 3: a master's degree in theology and the Arts at the

1555
01:29:13,680 --> 01:29:17,519
Speaker 3: University of Saint Andrew's. How in the world did I

1556
01:29:17,600 --> 01:29:19,920
Speaker 3: end up all the way over there? This is a

1557
01:29:19,920 --> 01:29:24,280
Speaker 3: program I've been circling for a while now. At University

1558
01:29:24,280 --> 01:29:27,400
Speaker 3: of St. Andrews, they have a unique institute. It's the

1559
01:29:27,439 --> 01:29:31,200
Speaker 3: Institute for Theology, Imagination and the Arts. It's part of

1560
01:29:31,200 --> 01:29:34,559
Speaker 3: their School of Divinity, and this is a degree in

1561
01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:39,040
Speaker 3: that program, and it seems, honestly, it seems tailor made

1562
01:29:39,640 --> 01:29:42,680
Speaker 3: for me. I was talking to my older daughter and

1563
01:29:42,720 --> 01:29:44,679
Speaker 3: showing her my class list because I got it about

1564
01:29:44,680 --> 01:29:47,080
Speaker 3: a week or two ago. She's like, did they just

1565
01:29:47,960 --> 01:29:50,679
Speaker 3: make this for you? It's like, what kind of feels

1566
01:29:50,680 --> 01:29:53,599
Speaker 3: that way? So that's why I'm doing it. I've heard

1567
01:29:53,640 --> 01:29:57,479
Speaker 3: about it from colleagues when I was working at Think Christian,

1568
01:29:57,640 --> 01:30:00,320
Speaker 3: some of whom went to this exact same program, others

1569
01:30:00,840 --> 01:30:04,360
Speaker 3: of whom got their PhD at the University of St. Andrews,

1570
01:30:04,360 --> 01:30:08,360
Speaker 3: and they were all very encouraging. It's basically to give

1571
01:30:08,439 --> 01:30:11,559
Speaker 3: listeners an idea of what I'll be doing. It's basically

1572
01:30:11,680 --> 01:30:14,200
Speaker 3: the same sort of work I've been doing in my books.

1573
01:30:14,280 --> 01:30:17,920
Speaker 3: So movies are prayers and fear, not Christian appreciation of

1574
01:30:17,960 --> 01:30:21,880
Speaker 3: horror movies. Except I'll be able to sort of build

1575
01:30:21,920 --> 01:30:26,160
Speaker 3: the foundation that I had but in unconventional ways, like

1576
01:30:26,240 --> 01:30:31,040
Speaker 3: through professional work within Christian my own reading, my upbringing,

1577
01:30:31,160 --> 01:30:35,519
Speaker 3: just being you know, in this reform tradition. That was

1578
01:30:35,520 --> 01:30:39,000
Speaker 3: all very helpful, but I never got the academic foundation right.

1579
01:30:39,040 --> 01:30:42,559
Speaker 3: So this is a chance to strengthen and build that

1580
01:30:43,120 --> 01:30:46,639
Speaker 3: continue that sort of work They describe this program as

1581
01:30:47,040 --> 01:30:52,200
Speaker 3: basically for artists who want to incorporate theology into their

1582
01:30:52,240 --> 01:30:56,840
Speaker 3: work or for those in ministry who want to incorporate

1583
01:30:57,439 --> 01:31:00,920
Speaker 3: the arts into their work. And I'm neither of those.

1584
01:31:01,040 --> 01:31:04,280
Speaker 3: But I like to think as a critic who has

1585
01:31:04,720 --> 01:31:07,720
Speaker 3: written books like that, I'm sort of like at the Nexus, right,

1586
01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:10,160
Speaker 3: I'm in the middle of that. So I do think

1587
01:31:10,200 --> 01:31:13,920
Speaker 3: it's a good fit. It's a year long program, so

1588
01:31:14,360 --> 01:31:17,920
Speaker 3: I will be away for sure nine months, might be

1589
01:31:17,920 --> 01:31:21,519
Speaker 3: able to come back to Chicago write the dissertation from here.

1590
01:31:22,000 --> 01:31:25,519
Speaker 3: And yeah, most importantly it is you know, it's not

1591
01:31:26,080 --> 01:31:28,840
Speaker 3: going to cost me film spotting. You and Sam have

1592
01:31:28,920 --> 01:31:32,400
Speaker 3: been gracious to work around the time zones and the schedules,

1593
01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:35,000
Speaker 3: and we think we'll be able to pull that off.

1594
01:31:35,080 --> 01:31:38,160
Speaker 3: I think I'll get pretty much the same access to movies.

1595
01:31:38,439 --> 01:31:40,559
Speaker 3: In terms of what we need for our reviews here

1596
01:31:40,600 --> 01:31:43,240
Speaker 3: on the show, we'll have to figure that out a

1597
01:31:43,280 --> 01:31:45,759
Speaker 3: little bit, but in terms of most of the movies

1598
01:31:45,840 --> 01:31:48,960
Speaker 3: we review, that should work out. So the hope is

1599
01:31:49,040 --> 01:31:52,240
Speaker 3: listeners don't really notice, right, except for maybe a few

1600
01:31:52,240 --> 01:31:54,080
Speaker 3: things I can share from what I'm learning.

1601
01:31:54,120 --> 01:31:58,320
Speaker 2: Perhaps we'll both be on college campuses, life will be grand,

1602
01:31:58,600 --> 01:32:01,360
Speaker 2: and yes we'll make it work. I'm excited for you.

1603
01:32:01,439 --> 01:32:03,800
Speaker 2: It sounds perfect. I'm a little bit jealous, even though,

1604
01:32:04,520 --> 01:32:06,280
Speaker 2: like I said, I'm on a college campus too, and

1605
01:32:06,320 --> 01:32:08,000
Speaker 2: there's no better place to be, so I.

1606
01:32:08,439 --> 01:32:10,960
Speaker 3: Can't wait to Yeah every time, you know, I've done

1607
01:32:10,960 --> 01:32:13,280
Speaker 3: a lot of speaking for the books over the years,

1608
01:32:13,360 --> 01:32:16,280
Speaker 3: visiting college campuses, and every time I go, it's like, boy,

1609
01:32:16,320 --> 01:32:17,920
Speaker 3: it'd be nice to just be able to stay here.

1610
01:32:18,200 --> 01:32:19,680
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know if I have the

1611
01:32:20,040 --> 01:32:24,200
Speaker 3: fortitude for a full time faculty sort of workload, Adam

1612
01:32:24,280 --> 01:32:27,400
Speaker 3: like you, but yeah, getting a chance to get back

1613
01:32:27,479 --> 01:32:31,880
Speaker 3: in that environment sounds pretty incredible. Listeners, if you have

1614
01:32:31,960 --> 01:32:34,280
Speaker 3: any I asked the fab this too and have already

1615
01:32:34,280 --> 01:32:38,160
Speaker 3: gotten some good suggestions. If there's essential Scottish film or

1616
01:32:38,240 --> 01:32:41,240
Speaker 3: book or a novel that you think I should read

1617
01:32:41,280 --> 01:32:45,120
Speaker 3: in preparation, send that my way and I will take

1618
01:32:45,120 --> 01:32:45,360
Speaker 3: it on.

1619
01:32:45,840 --> 01:32:48,720
Speaker 4: Hey, it's Brooklyn Adams and I'm partnering with Abercomedy to

1620
01:32:48,760 --> 01:32:51,080
Speaker 4: tell you about the newest drop from their active brand,

1621
01:32:51,240 --> 01:32:54,519
Speaker 4: Your Personal Best YPB Luggings are made with buttery soft

1622
01:32:54,520 --> 01:32:57,439
Speaker 4: fabrics that hug you in all the right places and

1623
01:32:57,600 --> 01:33:01,240
Speaker 4: common Abercomedy's viral curve love fit ting to eliminate waste gap,

1624
01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:04,400
Speaker 4: paired with sports bras and super soft sweatshirts. It's active

1625
01:33:04,400 --> 01:33:06,920
Speaker 4: word that supports every part of my busy lifestyle and

1626
01:33:07,000 --> 01:33:09,559
Speaker 4: gives me my best butt ever. Head into the new

1627
01:33:09,640 --> 01:33:13,080
Speaker 4: year feeling your personal best shop Active by Abercrombie in

1628
01:33:13,120 --> 01:33:15,000
Speaker 4: the app, online and in stores.

1629
01:33:16,840 --> 01:33:17,679
Speaker 2: Somebody's that tray?

1630
01:33:17,920 --> 01:33:18,360
Speaker 3: What do you mean?

1631
01:33:18,439 --> 01:33:18,679
Speaker 5: Somebody?

1632
01:33:19,040 --> 01:33:20,679
Speaker 3: Somebody's kidnapped our sun.

1633
01:33:20,920 --> 01:33:23,200
Speaker 2: Sink Pty five million dollars in all.

1634
01:33:23,160 --> 01:33:26,960
Speaker 3: Black joint means and think I'm clean? I got.

1635
01:33:28,400 --> 01:33:32,639
Speaker 2: Out. Next week here on the show, before Josh departs

1636
01:33:32,640 --> 01:33:36,439
Speaker 2: for Scotland, we are planning to discuss Spike Lee's highest

1637
01:33:36,520 --> 01:33:40,719
Speaker 2: to lowest, and we might get into some weapons feedback,

1638
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:45,679
Speaker 2: like you teased following our weapons review, some weapons spoiler talk.

1639
01:33:45,840 --> 01:33:51,280
Speaker 2: We've already started getting great responses, really really good discussion points,

1640
01:33:51,320 --> 01:33:53,439
Speaker 2: some more. I'm sure we'll come in over the next

1641
01:33:53,479 --> 01:33:56,080
Speaker 2: week or so. If you've seen that film, if you've

1642
01:33:56,120 --> 01:33:58,559
Speaker 2: been thinking about it, if you've been thinking about our review,

1643
01:33:59,120 --> 01:34:01,280
Speaker 2: if you have thoughts you want to share and haven't

1644
01:34:01,280 --> 01:34:03,880
Speaker 2: written in yet, that you want to get into the

1645
01:34:03,920 --> 01:34:07,560
Speaker 2: show feedback at filmspotting dot net, or record a voicemail

1646
01:34:08,439 --> 01:34:11,920
Speaker 2: or record a video and send it to us feedback

1647
01:34:12,040 --> 01:34:15,360
Speaker 2: at filmspotting dot net and we may work it into

1648
01:34:15,400 --> 01:34:17,640
Speaker 2: the show. If you'd like to get a glimpse of

1649
01:34:17,760 --> 01:34:20,240
Speaker 2: what we have planned for upcoming episodes, you can always

1650
01:34:20,240 --> 01:34:23,800
Speaker 2: go to filmspotting dot net and click on the episode's link.

1651
01:34:24,120 --> 01:34:27,080
Speaker 3: Quick note about our sister podcast, The Next Picture Show,

1652
01:34:27,120 --> 01:34:30,439
Speaker 3: Looking at Cinemas Present via its pass right now. It's

1653
01:34:30,439 --> 01:34:34,559
Speaker 3: part two of their double Drebbin pairing. Genevieve does such

1654
01:34:34,600 --> 01:34:37,360
Speaker 3: a great job with those titles. Naked Gun twenty twenty

1655
01:34:37,360 --> 01:34:40,559
Speaker 3: five is what they're talking about this time, obviously in

1656
01:34:40,600 --> 01:34:44,679
Speaker 3: connection with their previous episode, nineteen eighty eight's The Naked Gun.

1657
01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:48,200
Speaker 3: New episodes of The Next Picture Show drop every Tuesday,

1658
01:34:48,240 --> 01:34:50,800
Speaker 3: and you can find them wherever you get your podcasts.

1659
01:34:51,080 --> 01:34:51,760
Speaker 3: What's that one?

1660
01:34:52,720 --> 01:34:56,479
Speaker 4: What that one there on your arm?

1661
01:34:56,840 --> 01:35:01,400
Speaker 2: Oh? So I got that? Remove tell me? Don't tell

1662
01:35:01,439 --> 01:35:09,920
Speaker 2: me mother? What is.

1663
01:35:15,720 --> 01:35:16,120
Speaker 4: Tuba?

1664
01:35:16,240 --> 01:35:21,839
Speaker 1: That's the USA Indianapolis.

1665
01:35:24,000 --> 01:35:28,080
Speaker 2: That's from nineteen seventy six Best Picture nominee Jaws. Jaws

1666
01:35:28,360 --> 01:35:31,559
Speaker 2: did not win Best Picture in nineteen seventy six, But

1667
01:35:31,600 --> 01:35:33,759
Speaker 2: what if Oscar voters had another shot at the vote.

1668
01:35:33,920 --> 01:35:37,080
Speaker 2: We'll never know because the deeply flawed Film Spotting poll

1669
01:35:37,240 --> 01:35:41,960
Speaker 2: asked you, aside from Jaws, which of the seventy six

1670
01:35:42,240 --> 01:35:48,160
Speaker 2: best pick nominees should have won? Your options Stanley Kubrick's

1671
01:35:48,160 --> 01:35:54,160
Speaker 2: Barry Lyndon, Sidney Lametz Dog Day Afternoon, Robert Altman's Nashville,

1672
01:35:54,520 --> 01:35:58,400
Speaker 2: or the Winner in seventy six, One flew over the

1673
01:35:58,439 --> 01:36:01,639
Speaker 2: Cuckoo's Nest direct by Milosh Foreman. How did it come out?

1674
01:36:01,760 --> 01:36:06,400
Speaker 3: Josh so really packed among those that didn't win. I

1675
01:36:06,400 --> 01:36:09,640
Speaker 3: think we can say, but still maybe maybe it's just

1676
01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:12,439
Speaker 3: because this poll went out before our review Dog Day

1677
01:36:12,439 --> 01:36:15,160
Speaker 3: Afternoon last place, twenty one percent of the vote. Twenty

1678
01:36:15,200 --> 01:36:17,120
Speaker 3: two percent of the vote went to Nashville, though so

1679
01:36:17,400 --> 01:36:19,439
Speaker 3: very close there. Twenty four percent of the vote went

1680
01:36:19,479 --> 01:36:24,040
Speaker 3: to Barry Lindon. So one flew over the Cuckoo's Nest. Yes,

1681
01:36:24,080 --> 01:36:27,160
Speaker 3: the winner in seventy six from director Milosh Foreman also

1682
01:36:27,560 --> 01:36:29,879
Speaker 3: won this poll thirty three percent.

1683
01:36:30,760 --> 01:36:33,559
Speaker 2: How do you pick between these? I know? Last week? Okay,

1684
01:36:33,640 --> 01:36:35,760
Speaker 2: let's do one seal over the Cuckoo's Nest. I said

1685
01:36:35,800 --> 01:36:39,240
Speaker 2: Cuckoo's nest when we posted it, because we had just

1686
01:36:39,320 --> 01:36:43,719
Speaker 2: watched it, just raved about it, and I said, well,

1687
01:36:43,760 --> 01:36:46,160
Speaker 2: you know, Dog Day Afternoon's coming up. But at this

1688
01:36:46,240 --> 01:36:47,840
Speaker 2: point it's been a while since I've seen it. I

1689
01:36:47,880 --> 01:36:50,160
Speaker 2: knew it was between those two films. Well, now I

1690
01:36:50,160 --> 01:36:52,479
Speaker 2: don't have that cop out anymore. Right now, I've seen

1691
01:36:52,520 --> 01:36:54,640
Speaker 2: Dog Day Afternoon again and I've raved about it.

1692
01:36:54,680 --> 01:36:55,120
Speaker 3: Where you go.

1693
01:36:55,200 --> 01:36:59,720
Speaker 2: They are both in the pantheon. They are both all

1694
01:36:59,800 --> 01:37:07,080
Speaker 2: time directed by great filmmakers with lead performances that are

1695
01:37:08,680 --> 01:37:13,599
Speaker 2: titanic performances. Yeah, from those all time great actors. I'm

1696
01:37:13,600 --> 01:37:17,880
Speaker 2: trying to apply. I'm trying to apply and just significant,

1697
01:37:18,360 --> 01:37:24,320
Speaker 2: significant films, profound films, but also entertaining films. And I'm trying, Josh,

1698
01:37:24,400 --> 01:37:27,760
Speaker 2: I'm trying to apply the Sam van Holgren. There has

1699
01:37:27,800 --> 01:37:30,120
Speaker 2: to be steaks. That's the only way I can I

1700
01:37:30,120 --> 01:37:32,280
Speaker 2: can try to make this work. I'm trying to apply

1701
01:37:32,360 --> 01:37:38,160
Speaker 2: the incinerator technique. And I'm imagining the Dog Day Afternoon

1702
01:37:38,240 --> 01:37:40,160
Speaker 2: is in one hand, and one flow over the Cuckoo's

1703
01:37:40,160 --> 01:37:41,680
Speaker 2: Nest is in the other, and one of them has

1704
01:37:41,720 --> 01:37:45,120
Speaker 2: to go in the incinerator, never to be seen again,

1705
01:37:45,120 --> 01:37:48,240
Speaker 2: and the other one I can watch whenever I want.

1706
01:37:48,640 --> 01:37:52,040
Speaker 2: Which one goes in the Incinerator, and it feels like

1707
01:37:52,080 --> 01:37:54,759
Speaker 2: a Sophie's choice to me. It feels like a Sophie's

1708
01:37:54,800 --> 01:37:56,880
Speaker 2: choice to me, I'm gonna stall. Do you do you

1709
01:37:56,920 --> 01:37:58,160
Speaker 2: have a clear answer to it.

1710
01:37:58,360 --> 01:38:02,000
Speaker 3: You're so stalling, embarrassing. All right, I'll give you a

1711
01:38:02,040 --> 01:38:05,400
Speaker 3: little more time. And this may not be fair because

1712
01:38:05,680 --> 01:38:08,559
Speaker 3: even though we just did Cucku's Nest, there's probably still

1713
01:38:08,600 --> 01:38:11,599
Speaker 3: recency bias to the last thing you watched. But I

1714
01:38:11,640 --> 01:38:13,360
Speaker 3: do feel and I've been rustled. I knew this was

1715
01:38:13,360 --> 01:38:14,920
Speaker 3: going to come up, so I've been wrestling with this

1716
01:38:15,160 --> 01:38:17,559
Speaker 3: as soon as Dog Day ended, actually because I had

1717
01:38:17,640 --> 01:38:22,760
Speaker 3: such a visceral burst of energy from that movie, and

1718
01:38:23,479 --> 01:38:26,320
Speaker 3: I had that to a degree with Cucku's Nest, but

1719
01:38:26,360 --> 01:38:29,280
Speaker 3: it wasn't the same. Both they are very political films.

1720
01:38:29,880 --> 01:38:34,320
Speaker 3: I think there is a immediacy to the politics of

1721
01:38:34,360 --> 01:38:37,559
Speaker 3: Dog Day Afternoon, which we discussed in our review in

1722
01:38:37,680 --> 01:38:44,559
Speaker 3: terms of state violence that I can't I can't choose

1723
01:38:44,600 --> 01:38:47,080
Speaker 3: anything else but it right now, in the moment, I'm

1724
01:38:47,080 --> 01:38:51,400
Speaker 3: in so very close. I think these are the two

1725
01:38:51,439 --> 01:38:55,960
Speaker 3: to wrestle over among the four. Absolutely, but for me,

1726
01:38:56,000 --> 01:38:57,040
Speaker 3: it is Dog Day Afternoon.

1727
01:38:57,520 --> 01:39:00,280
Speaker 2: That helps a little because maybe that nudges me toward

1728
01:39:00,360 --> 01:39:04,599
Speaker 2: Cuckoo's Nest. But the other thing in Cuckoo's Nest favor

1729
01:39:05,400 --> 01:39:09,439
Speaker 2: is the sentimental attachment to it. As I said in

1730
01:39:09,479 --> 01:39:11,639
Speaker 2: my setup, when you say which.

1731
01:39:11,400 --> 01:39:13,839
Speaker 3: One can you watch over and over? In some ways,

1732
01:39:14,000 --> 01:39:16,639
Speaker 3: Cucko's Nest is the zier watch I think.

1733
01:39:16,800 --> 01:39:17,840
Speaker 2: I suppose it has.

1734
01:39:18,000 --> 01:39:20,400
Speaker 3: It has a little more Yeah to me, is a

1735
01:39:20,400 --> 01:39:23,360
Speaker 3: little more entertainment value and not quite as despairing of

1736
01:39:23,400 --> 01:39:23,800
Speaker 3: an end date.

1737
01:39:24,560 --> 01:39:27,360
Speaker 2: That is definitely true, But I'm even just more specifically

1738
01:39:27,400 --> 01:39:30,599
Speaker 2: referring to the fact that I'll always think about it

1739
01:39:30,640 --> 01:39:34,439
Speaker 2: as a movie that I bonded over with my college friends,

1740
01:39:34,520 --> 01:39:37,560
Speaker 2: my college roommates, and Dog Day doesn't have that attachment

1741
01:39:37,720 --> 01:39:40,000
Speaker 2: for me. So even though that really has nothing to

1742
01:39:40,000 --> 01:39:43,200
Speaker 2: do with the Incinerator or my life moving forward, it's

1743
01:39:43,200 --> 01:39:45,840
Speaker 2: going to give the edge to Cuckoo's Nest. Now, in

1744
01:39:45,880 --> 01:39:51,960
Speaker 2: this stupid, deeply flawed poll, let's see what our listeners said, Josh.

1745
01:39:52,000 --> 01:39:54,280
Speaker 3: We heard from Wade McCormick. It's been a while since

1746
01:39:54,320 --> 01:39:57,320
Speaker 3: I've seen Cucko's Nest, so I'm probably underrating it. Even Still,

1747
01:39:57,400 --> 01:39:59,719
Speaker 3: this is by far the best group of nominees and Oscar.

1748
01:40:00,640 --> 01:40:04,000
Speaker 3: Each one is arguably the best film by a legendary director.

1749
01:40:04,320 --> 01:40:06,880
Speaker 3: They're all great, but Barry Linden would be on my

1750
01:40:06,920 --> 01:40:09,639
Speaker 3: short list of the greatest films of all time. It's

1751
01:40:09,640 --> 01:40:14,559
Speaker 3: certainly the most beautiful. Kubrick's masterpiece gets my vote. And yeah,

1752
01:40:14,600 --> 01:40:18,840
Speaker 3: I think Wade makes a good point there. We spent

1753
01:40:18,920 --> 01:40:22,639
Speaker 3: time on the esthetic and filmmaking techniques of Dog Day Afternoon.

1754
01:40:23,160 --> 01:40:25,400
Speaker 3: But yeah, in terms of the filmmaking here, just the

1755
01:40:25,439 --> 01:40:29,080
Speaker 3: pure filmmaking technique, nothing does beat Barry Lindon.

1756
01:40:29,640 --> 01:40:33,120
Speaker 2: Here's Tory lightcap agreeing the gut says Kubrick and Linden,

1757
01:40:33,200 --> 01:40:36,760
Speaker 2: and all that glorious natural light in darkened interiors. The

1758
01:40:36,800 --> 01:40:38,639
Speaker 2: gut is hardly ever wrong.

1759
01:40:40,479 --> 01:40:43,599
Speaker 3: Ben, said Barry Lindon. Even if Jaws was included, Wow,

1760
01:40:43,960 --> 01:40:47,559
Speaker 3: maybe even Nashville over Jaws. Maybe I should rewatch Jaws.

1761
01:40:47,960 --> 01:40:51,679
Speaker 2: Okay, should we post this poll again with Jaws Jaws

1762
01:40:51,760 --> 01:40:53,120
Speaker 2: to see if Jows does win?

1763
01:40:53,479 --> 01:40:57,080
Speaker 3: Is there any world for you, Adam that Jaws doesn't

1764
01:40:57,120 --> 01:41:01,920
Speaker 3: win if it was thrown in forget for me? It's

1765
01:41:01,960 --> 01:41:06,360
Speaker 3: easy for me. I mean Jaws. Which Hey, we did

1766
01:41:06,400 --> 01:41:08,960
Speaker 3: a sacred cow review of Jaws, and it's deeply.

1767
01:41:08,600 --> 01:41:12,240
Speaker 2: Political I think, I think, I think Jaws wins it

1768
01:41:12,240 --> 01:41:12,479
Speaker 2: for me.

1769
01:41:12,680 --> 01:41:14,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, me too, Yeah Okay.

1770
01:41:14,880 --> 01:41:18,240
Speaker 2: Here's Darren. What a jaw dropping slate of nominees. Remarkably,

1771
01:41:18,280 --> 01:41:20,200
Speaker 2: three of these nominees were also in the top five

1772
01:41:20,240 --> 01:41:23,160
Speaker 2: at the box office that year. With five perfect movies

1773
01:41:23,200 --> 01:41:24,800
Speaker 2: to choose from, I voted for the one that is

1774
01:41:24,840 --> 01:41:28,559
Speaker 2: most mystifyingly perfect, Nashville. I mean, how could something so

1775
01:41:28,760 --> 01:41:32,240
Speaker 2: rambling possibly be so perfect? It feels like a time capsule,

1776
01:41:32,320 --> 01:41:34,439
Speaker 2: but it could have been filmed last year without changing

1777
01:41:34,439 --> 01:41:34,800
Speaker 2: a thing.

1778
01:41:35,600 --> 01:41:40,240
Speaker 3: Mystifyingly perfect. Nicely done there, Darren. One more comment from

1779
01:41:40,400 --> 01:41:43,920
Speaker 3: Jonathan Anderson in Denver. Just a heads up for Denver spotters.

1780
01:41:44,080 --> 01:41:47,000
Speaker 3: Nashville is playing at the Mayan in September, so if you,

1781
01:41:47,120 --> 01:41:49,679
Speaker 3: like me badly need to rewatch it, that'll be as

1782
01:41:49,680 --> 01:41:52,280
Speaker 3: good a time as any good plug.

1783
01:41:52,360 --> 01:41:55,559
Speaker 2: Thank you to everyone who voted in that deeply flawed,

1784
01:41:55,640 --> 01:41:59,120
Speaker 2: deeply troubling poll and who left a comment. We have

1785
01:41:59,160 --> 01:42:01,680
Speaker 2: another one for you, And I don't know, maybe this

1786
01:42:01,800 --> 01:42:04,360
Speaker 2: is easy for a lot of people. This one seems

1787
01:42:04,520 --> 01:42:08,679
Speaker 2: almost just as troubling to me. Josh, our new one

1788
01:42:09,200 --> 01:42:13,120
Speaker 2: you just recommended, Neja two our poll question then is

1789
01:42:13,280 --> 01:42:19,679
Speaker 2: animation related, and it's pretty straightforward. It's a classic incinerator case. Again,

1790
01:42:19,960 --> 01:42:24,880
Speaker 2: you can choose one and only one animation studio. You

1791
01:42:25,000 --> 01:42:30,400
Speaker 2: then have the entire filmography of Pixar. If I have

1792
01:42:30,520 --> 01:42:33,000
Speaker 2: my count right and I have given in front of you, Josh,

1793
01:42:33,080 --> 01:42:37,320
Speaker 2: all twenty four titles, you have Pixar. Actually, Pixar's list

1794
01:42:37,360 --> 01:42:40,800
Speaker 2: is twenty nine, so a slight advantage if you just

1795
01:42:40,840 --> 01:42:45,040
Speaker 2: go on quantity. Pixar has twenty nine titles up against

1796
01:42:45,040 --> 01:42:52,240
Speaker 2: Studio jubilees twenty four titles. You can only pick one set.

1797
01:42:52,360 --> 01:42:54,800
Speaker 2: You were shaking your head when I said maybe it's

1798
01:42:54,800 --> 01:42:58,080
Speaker 2: not tough. Does that mean it is extremely difficult or

1799
01:42:58,120 --> 01:43:00,320
Speaker 2: it's just a no brainer for you.

1800
01:43:00,360 --> 01:43:04,160
Speaker 3: Oh, it's horrible, as I'm not even answering it this week.

1801
01:43:07,120 --> 01:43:09,640
Speaker 3: Here's what I want listeners to consider. If you have

1802
01:43:09,680 --> 01:43:12,559
Speaker 3: a knee jerk response and you think it is easy,

1803
01:43:12,640 --> 01:43:15,360
Speaker 3: which understandably might be Pixar, I get it. I mean,

1804
01:43:15,640 --> 01:43:18,439
Speaker 3: this is why it's tough, right, Yes, think beyond me

1805
01:43:18,479 --> 01:43:21,400
Speaker 3: az Aki is what I would tell you. Now an

1806
01:43:21,479 --> 01:43:23,559
Speaker 3: argument could be made you don't have to and still

1807
01:43:23,600 --> 01:43:27,559
Speaker 3: go with Studio Jibilie, But think about something like I

1808
01:43:27,560 --> 01:43:30,519
Speaker 3: don't know, The Red Turtle, the Secret World of Arietti,

1809
01:43:30,800 --> 01:43:34,960
Speaker 3: the Tale of the Princess Kaguya, probably others that I

1810
01:43:35,000 --> 01:43:38,639
Speaker 3: haven't even seen yet that people love more. But there

1811
01:43:38,680 --> 01:43:44,720
Speaker 3: are movies from Jibilie that are as moving and imaginative

1812
01:43:45,240 --> 01:43:48,400
Speaker 3: and as powerful as anything me Azaki has done that

1813
01:43:48,760 --> 01:43:51,400
Speaker 3: he didn't direct. So that's just something to keep in

1814
01:43:51,439 --> 01:43:53,759
Speaker 3: the back of your mind before you just click on Pixar.

1815
01:43:54,080 --> 01:43:59,479
Speaker 3: That being said, how do you vote against Pixar? How

1816
01:43:59,520 --> 01:44:04,439
Speaker 3: do you even get to a point where you're voting

1817
01:44:04,439 --> 01:44:09,559
Speaker 3: against Finding Nemo ratituy Wally. I know some of the

1818
01:44:09,560 --> 01:44:13,840
Speaker 3: more recent recent stuff hasn't been as incredible, but inside

1819
01:44:13,880 --> 01:44:16,080
Speaker 3: Out Yeah, it's a little while ago now, but still

1820
01:44:16,479 --> 01:44:21,280
Speaker 3: very very good. After that, Coco I think is amazing.

1821
01:44:21,720 --> 01:44:26,200
Speaker 3: A Soul I have Soul twenty twenty. I think it's

1822
01:44:26,200 --> 01:44:28,920
Speaker 3: in my pop top three possibly yeah, certainly top five

1823
01:44:29,000 --> 01:44:30,200
Speaker 3: ticks are so.

1824
01:44:30,479 --> 01:44:32,200
Speaker 2: Oh top two of that year you had it?

1825
01:44:32,240 --> 01:44:36,439
Speaker 3: Really, I will get back to you. Are you able

1826
01:44:36,479 --> 01:44:37,360
Speaker 3: to answer this week?

1827
01:44:38,680 --> 01:44:43,960
Speaker 2: I think I am, And to your point, when I

1828
01:44:44,040 --> 01:44:47,839
Speaker 2: first considered the question, and even as I was pulling

1829
01:44:48,720 --> 01:44:52,800
Speaker 2: the list of titles, I thought, as much as I

1830
01:44:52,840 --> 01:44:57,040
Speaker 2: do love a lot of Zibili films. I thought, well, yeah,

1831
01:44:57,120 --> 01:45:00,320
Speaker 2: I'm going I'm going Pixar. I really did think I was.

1832
01:45:00,400 --> 01:45:04,320
Speaker 2: I was going Pixar. Don't overthink it, Adam, don't don't

1833
01:45:04,320 --> 01:45:07,760
Speaker 2: try to be art house, Adam with go with what

1834
01:45:07,800 --> 01:45:10,439
Speaker 2: brought you here. Think about the films that have meant

1835
01:45:10,520 --> 01:45:12,800
Speaker 2: so much to you over the years. You got into

1836
01:45:12,840 --> 01:45:16,200
Speaker 2: the Jibilee films later in life, as you've done this show,

1837
01:45:16,520 --> 01:45:21,920
Speaker 2: but Pixar meant more to you earlier, and just just

1838
01:45:22,000 --> 01:45:26,759
Speaker 2: accept that. But you know, Tori talked about the gut

1839
01:45:27,240 --> 01:45:30,120
Speaker 2: never being wrong or hardly ever wrong. Maybe I can

1840
01:45:30,160 --> 01:45:34,160
Speaker 2: consult Tory's gut on this question. Maybe you can too, Josh.

1841
01:45:34,400 --> 01:45:37,920
Speaker 2: But I put these titles next to each other, and

1842
01:45:37,960 --> 01:45:40,479
Speaker 2: you can see, you can see my highlights. I put

1843
01:45:40,520 --> 01:45:42,800
Speaker 2: these lists next to each other, and what I tried

1844
01:45:42,800 --> 01:45:45,479
Speaker 2: to do was was go with my gut. And I

1845
01:45:45,960 --> 01:45:48,439
Speaker 2: looked at the list side by side, and I just said,

1846
01:45:48,479 --> 01:45:54,479
Speaker 2: I'm gonna highlight titles as I see them. That here again,

1847
01:45:54,479 --> 01:45:57,759
Speaker 2: I'm kind of applying the incinerator approach. I'm just thinking

1848
01:45:57,800 --> 01:46:01,800
Speaker 2: about I'm not thinking about starring or whatever. I'm not

1849
01:46:01,840 --> 01:46:04,080
Speaker 2: gonna look them up what I said about them or

1850
01:46:04,160 --> 01:46:07,440
Speaker 2: rated them. I'm just thinking as I glance at them,

1851
01:46:07,720 --> 01:46:10,240
Speaker 2: I'm imagining a world where I don't get to ever

1852
01:46:10,320 --> 01:46:14,120
Speaker 2: watch that movie again. And it pains me. It feels

1853
01:46:14,920 --> 01:46:17,360
Speaker 2: this is too strong a word, but it feels tragic

1854
01:46:17,920 --> 01:46:20,280
Speaker 2: that I would never get to see that movie again.

1855
01:46:21,520 --> 01:46:24,720
Speaker 2: And I went because it's first on my going left

1856
01:46:24,720 --> 01:46:27,720
Speaker 2: to right on my screen, I started with Jibilie and

1857
01:46:27,800 --> 01:46:37,799
Speaker 2: going down my list, Grave of the Fireflies, Kiki's Delivery Service, Totoro, Porko, Rasso,

1858
01:46:38,840 --> 01:46:44,679
Speaker 2: Spirited Away, the wind Rises. I know people listening, mileage

1859
01:46:44,760 --> 01:46:47,599
Speaker 2: is gonna vary. You're gonna have most people are gonna

1860
01:46:47,600 --> 01:46:50,000
Speaker 2: have one or two of those titles. Some are gonna

1861
01:46:50,040 --> 01:46:52,280
Speaker 2: have maybe, some are gonna have none. You're gonna have

1862
01:46:52,640 --> 01:46:57,200
Speaker 2: six others, ten others, three others whatever. I had those six, Okay,

1863
01:46:57,000 --> 01:46:59,760
Speaker 2: that would have pained me. I went over to the

1864
01:46:59,760 --> 01:47:07,679
Speaker 2: pick sar side, went down the list, finding Nemo, Wally

1865
01:47:09,520 --> 01:47:14,040
Speaker 2: Inside Out. It was those three and then Josh, I

1866
01:47:14,040 --> 01:47:17,360
Speaker 2: suppose what what I thought about was, is it just

1867
01:47:17,479 --> 01:47:20,760
Speaker 2: kind of the Toy Story trilogy? And does that if

1868
01:47:20,760 --> 01:47:22,720
Speaker 2: I count that as a whole, does that bring me?

1869
01:47:23,120 --> 01:47:25,679
Speaker 2: Does that bring me? To six, you know, am I? Then?

1870
01:47:25,800 --> 01:47:26,040
Speaker 3: Am I?

1871
01:47:26,080 --> 01:47:28,960
Speaker 2: Then six against six? But that that really is where

1872
01:47:29,000 --> 01:47:32,040
Speaker 2: I'm at, and as hard as it is to think about,

1873
01:47:32,120 --> 01:47:36,240
Speaker 2: because I have such a soft spot for Nemo. It's

1874
01:47:36,280 --> 01:47:38,400
Speaker 2: a film that has meant a lot to my family

1875
01:47:39,240 --> 01:47:41,760
Speaker 2: and and I love it beyond that. I think it's

1876
01:47:41,800 --> 01:47:45,120
Speaker 2: a wonderful film as our wally and inside out. I

1877
01:47:45,160 --> 01:47:50,000
Speaker 2: think this Studio Gjibilee list is too strong. I'm going Jibilie.

1878
01:47:50,479 --> 01:47:53,400
Speaker 3: Okay. I found a deep flaw not in our poll,

1879
01:47:54,400 --> 01:47:57,519
Speaker 3: but in our options here. Unless I'm missing it, Miyazaki

1880
01:47:57,640 --> 01:48:00,680
Speaker 3: is the boy and the heron the best film of

1881
01:48:00,720 --> 01:48:04,400
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three is not on this list now missing.

1882
01:48:04,600 --> 01:48:06,760
Speaker 3: I know you liked it, it's very good or yeah

1883
01:48:06,760 --> 01:48:08,960
Speaker 3: it's good. I thought we're good. You weren't as high

1884
01:48:08,960 --> 01:48:11,400
Speaker 3: on it as me. But I think I am gonna

1885
01:48:11,400 --> 01:48:14,719
Speaker 3: commit adam. I think I think.

1886
01:48:14,560 --> 01:48:17,400
Speaker 2: That is my math is wrong. Twenty five pushing me

1887
01:48:17,479 --> 01:48:18,840
Speaker 2: knows what else I'm missing.

1888
01:48:18,680 --> 01:48:21,880
Speaker 3: Pushing me over the top because I do love that

1889
01:48:21,960 --> 01:48:27,320
Speaker 3: movie so much, and not an easy choice, but at

1890
01:48:27,320 --> 01:48:28,320
Speaker 3: Ghibli for me.

1891
01:48:28,840 --> 01:48:34,559
Speaker 2: Okay, we're both on the Jiblee side. We cannot wait

1892
01:48:34,680 --> 01:48:39,000
Speaker 2: for your votes and your feedback on this very difficult question.

1893
01:48:39,160 --> 01:48:42,960
Speaker 2: You can vote now at film spotting dot net. Josh,

1894
01:48:43,520 --> 01:48:46,519
Speaker 2: I think we're gonna end on that note. That's our show. Look,

1895
01:48:46,680 --> 01:48:50,840
Speaker 2: I can see daylight. We're gonna be okay.

1896
01:48:52,520 --> 01:48:57,200
Speaker 3: I don't think that's daylight. If you want to connect

1897
01:48:57,240 --> 01:49:01,040
Speaker 3: with Adam and the show on Instagram, facebookok or letterboxed

1898
01:49:01,720 --> 01:49:05,280
Speaker 3: YouTube as well, you can find us at film Spotting.

1899
01:49:05,400 --> 01:49:08,040
Speaker 3: I'm at Larson on film I think I'm on all

1900
01:49:08,080 --> 01:49:11,160
Speaker 3: those places. Plus for you Blue Sky folks, you can

1901
01:49:11,200 --> 01:49:15,160
Speaker 3: find me there too. We are independently produced and listeners supported.

1902
01:49:15,200 --> 01:49:17,639
Speaker 3: You can support the show by joining the film Spotting

1903
01:49:17,720 --> 01:49:20,920
Speaker 3: Family at Filmspotting Family dot com. You can listen early

1904
01:49:21,000 --> 01:49:24,519
Speaker 3: and ad free. You'll also get a weekly newsletter, monthly

1905
01:49:24,600 --> 01:49:28,120
Speaker 3: bonus episodes, and access to the entire show archive. For

1906
01:49:28,200 --> 01:49:30,800
Speaker 3: show t shirts another merch go to film spotting dot

1907
01:49:30,880 --> 01:49:32,440
Speaker 3: net slash Shop.

1908
01:49:32,720 --> 01:49:35,799
Speaker 2: Out Digital This weekend tomorrow. Weaving is a former teenage

1909
01:49:35,840 --> 01:49:38,479
Speaker 2: runaway who gets pulled back into her unsavory past to

1910
01:49:38,520 --> 01:49:41,600
Speaker 2: save her boyfriend. It's with Randall Park, Andy Garcia and

1911
01:49:41,680 --> 01:49:45,759
Speaker 2: Steve's on. Where's Steve zon Been? That's a film Spotting favorite,

1912
01:49:45,760 --> 01:49:50,200
Speaker 2: going way back that's on Hulu. In limited release, you

1913
01:49:50,200 --> 01:49:53,400
Speaker 2: can see lurker or retail clerk meets and becomes friendly

1914
01:49:53,439 --> 01:49:56,240
Speaker 2: with a rising pop star, which blurs the line between

1915
01:49:56,320 --> 01:49:59,920
Speaker 2: fan and friend. Our friend. Robert Daniels, reporting from it

1916
01:50:00,080 --> 01:50:04,080
Speaker 2: Sundance Premiere said, combines the obsessive spirit of Laura and

1917
01:50:04,160 --> 01:50:09,479
Speaker 2: the frenetic sleaziness of night Crawler. I'm sold. Splitsville is out.

1918
01:50:10,120 --> 01:50:13,040
Speaker 2: Carrie's wife Dakota Johnson wants a divorce, but maybe the

1919
01:50:13,080 --> 01:50:16,759
Speaker 2: secret to happiness is an open marriage with Adria Rhona

1920
01:50:16,840 --> 01:50:20,719
Speaker 2: from Hitman, directed by Michael Angelo Covino, who made twenty

1921
01:50:20,800 --> 01:50:25,960
Speaker 2: nineteen's The Climb. David Simms says, now Here is an incisive,

1922
01:50:26,160 --> 01:50:30,559
Speaker 2: funny twenty twenty five movie about relationships and sex starring

1923
01:50:30,640 --> 01:50:32,960
Speaker 2: Dakota Johnson. And if you thought that was a shot

1924
01:50:33,560 --> 01:50:37,240
Speaker 2: at Selene Song's materialists, I believe it has to be

1925
01:50:37,240 --> 01:50:39,479
Speaker 2: because I did look up on lighterbox and David Simms

1926
01:50:39,479 --> 01:50:41,519
Speaker 2: gave that movie two and a half stars like I did.

1927
01:50:42,520 --> 01:50:46,400
Speaker 2: In wide release, Eden, a group of disillusion outsiders abandons

1928
01:50:46,439 --> 01:50:50,360
Speaker 2: modern society for a remote, uninhabited island in the Galapagos,

1929
01:50:51,040 --> 01:50:54,920
Speaker 2: directed by Ron Howard m On a day Armis, Jude Law,

1930
01:50:55,000 --> 01:50:58,479
Speaker 2: Sidney Sweeney and Vanessa Kirby Starr In that one, Ethan

1931
01:50:58,520 --> 01:51:01,000
Speaker 2: Cone's new one, Honey Don't is out, Margaret Quality is

1932
01:51:01,040 --> 01:51:04,440
Speaker 2: small Town Pi, What a name? Honey O'donahue who investigates

1933
01:51:04,479 --> 01:51:07,200
Speaker 2: a series of strange deaths tied to a mysterious church.

1934
01:51:07,600 --> 01:51:11,439
Speaker 2: That's with Abrey Plaza, Chris Evans and Charlie Day. Relay

1935
01:51:11,600 --> 01:51:13,720
Speaker 2: is that. That's new from David McKenzie, who made Hell

1936
01:51:13,760 --> 01:51:15,640
Speaker 2: or High Water and start Up. Riz Ahmed is a

1937
01:51:15,640 --> 01:51:19,439
Speaker 2: fixer who brokeer's payoffs between corrupt corporations and individuals who

1938
01:51:19,479 --> 01:51:22,720
Speaker 2: threatened to expose them. That's with Lily James as a

1939
01:51:22,760 --> 01:51:28,080
Speaker 2: client whose life has been threatened and Josh recommended Neja two.

1940
01:51:28,760 --> 01:51:32,559
Speaker 2: Next week, it is Spike Lee's Highest to Lois, which

1941
01:51:32,600 --> 01:51:34,840
Speaker 2: is on the docket that's currently in limited release. You

1942
01:51:34,880 --> 01:51:37,439
Speaker 2: can look for that coming to Apple TV Plus on

1943
01:51:37,479 --> 01:51:40,639
Speaker 2: September fourth, and we'll see if we can dive into

1944
01:51:40,680 --> 01:51:44,240
Speaker 2: the mail bag on the movie weapons.

1945
01:51:44,080 --> 01:51:46,880
Speaker 3: Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe Des and Sam

1946
01:51:47,000 --> 01:51:50,160
Speaker 3: van Holgren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go.

1947
01:51:50,479 --> 01:51:54,080
Speaker 3: Our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar special thanks to everyone

1948
01:51:54,080 --> 01:51:58,320
Speaker 3: at wb eazy Chicago. More information is available at wbeazy

1949
01:51:58,640 --> 01:52:01,760
Speaker 3: dot org For film Spotting, I'm Josh Larson.

1950
01:52:01,600 --> 01:52:03,719
Speaker 2: And I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening.

1951
01:52:04,000 --> 01:52:06,960
Speaker 6: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore.

1952
01:52:07,800 --> 01:52:08,320
Speaker 3: Good Bye.

1953
01:52:24,840 --> 01:52:27,839
Speaker 2: Film Spotting is listeners supported. Join the film Spotting Family

1954
01:52:27,880 --> 01:52:30,400
Speaker 2: at film spotting family dot com and get access to

1955
01:52:30,560 --> 01:52:34,080
Speaker 2: ad free episodes, monthly bonus shows, our weekly newsletter, and,

1956
01:52:34,160 --> 01:52:36,439
Speaker 2: for the first time, all in one place, the entire

1957
01:52:36,720 --> 01:52:39,160
Speaker 2: film Spotting archive going back to two thousand and five.

1958
01:52:39,479 --> 01:52:44,839
Speaker 2: That's a film Spotting Family dot com panically