WEBVTT - The Circle: Oppression Is an Endless Loop | Dissident Cinema 0:00:21.244 --> 0:00:24.604 Film Spotting is presented by Regal Unlimited, the all you 0:00:24.645 --> 0:00:27.565 can watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in 0:00:27.685 --> 0:00:31.365 just two visits. See any standard two D movie anytime 0:00:31.725 --> 0:00:34.845 with no blackoutdates or restrictions. Sign up now on the 0:00:34.885 --> 0:00:37.284 Regal app or at the link in our description and 0:00:37.445 --> 0:00:41.685 use code film spot twenty six to receive fifteen percent off. 0:00:45.845 --> 0:00:48.325 What kind of a show you guys putting on here today? 0:00:48.445 --> 0:00:50.804 You're not interested in armed now? So look, we're going 0:00:50.885 --> 0:00:55.405 to do this thing. We're going to have a conversation. Hey, 0:00:55.405 --> 0:00:59.444 film spotters, Adam and Josh. Here. The sixth and final 0:00:59.444 --> 0:01:03.605 film in our Dissident Cinema Marathon is Jafar Panahi's chronicle 0:01:03.725 --> 0:01:06.685 of contemporary Ron Circle the late nineties. 0:01:06.885 --> 0:01:07.445 The Circle. 0:01:08.125 --> 0:01:11.444 The Dissident Cinema Marathon is dedicated to films that depict 0:01:11.525 --> 0:01:15.565 or openly confront fascism of various kinds. We have discussed 0:01:15.605 --> 0:01:18.605 six films in all, or we will have once we 0:01:18.725 --> 0:01:21.005 get through this conversation about the Circle. You can find 0:01:21.164 --> 0:01:25.164 the full lineup at filmspotting dot net. Slash marathons. You 0:01:25.205 --> 0:01:29.725 can also find there our entire history of marathons. We 0:01:29.765 --> 0:01:32.885 have done over fifty of these over the years. What 0:01:33.045 --> 0:01:36.845 are these well? Marathon is the word we use to 0:01:36.884 --> 0:01:40.165 describe these series where we try to eliminate our cinematic 0:01:40.244 --> 0:01:44.485 blind spots. They are often devoted to directors or actors 0:01:44.604 --> 0:01:49.044 or genres, sometimes even regions of world cinema. I had 0:01:49.045 --> 0:01:52.565 to look up, Josh where this film placed exactly in 0:01:52.645 --> 0:01:55.565 Panahi's filmography has been a favorite of mine, certainly over 0:01:55.565 --> 0:01:58.925 the years of doing this show, as I've gotten to 0:01:59.125 --> 0:02:03.124 discover his work. It's his third feature after The White 0:02:03.165 --> 0:02:07.365 Balloon in nineteen ninety five, and then my beloved The Mirror, 0:02:07.445 --> 0:02:11.725 a movie that became beloved for me after watching it 0:02:11.765 --> 0:02:14.725 as part of a marathon here on Film Spotting that 0:02:14.765 --> 0:02:18.205 came out in nineteen ninety seven. This movie closing out 0:02:18.205 --> 0:02:21.325 our marathon is a little bit of an outlier due 0:02:21.325 --> 0:02:24.045 to the time of its release. I did bring up 0:02:24.045 --> 0:02:26.485 whether or not it belonged in this marathon or we 0:02:26.485 --> 0:02:29.445 should just conclude after five movies. Because we had a 0:02:29.565 --> 0:02:33.204 run of what nineteen forty to basically nineteen sixty nine, 0:02:33.204 --> 0:02:38.005 It was kind of compact about three decades, and most 0:02:38.005 --> 0:02:41.605 of what we were recovering was really dealing with World 0:02:41.685 --> 0:02:44.325 War two. It seemed really nice and tidy, and then 0:02:44.365 --> 0:02:46.405 all of a sudden we were jumping ahead to the 0:02:46.445 --> 0:02:49.044 year two thousand and also in terms of subject matter, 0:02:49.805 --> 0:02:55.445 not so much dealing with fascism per se, but definitely 0:02:55.484 --> 0:02:59.605 an oppressive state, as this film is confronting Iran's treatment 0:02:59.845 --> 0:03:03.965 of women in terms of quality, because if I remember correctly, 0:03:04.165 --> 0:03:07.005 we have been fans of every film, both of us, 0:03:07.085 --> 0:03:09.605 every film in this marathon. Yeah, was The Circle an 0:03:09.644 --> 0:03:13.445 outlier or is it an appropriate conclusion to the marathon? 0:03:14.405 --> 0:03:18.565 I think it's appropriate on many terms, including its quality. 0:03:18.885 --> 0:03:22.205 I think it holds up alongside of these classics we've 0:03:22.245 --> 0:03:26.325 been we've been visiting. And I also think, you know, 0:03:26.365 --> 0:03:29.525 we have been tossing around fascism a lot. It's probably 0:03:29.565 --> 0:03:32.725 been the go to phrase for this Dissonan cinema marathon, 0:03:33.325 --> 0:03:37.645 But honestly, in thinking about it in larger terms, we 0:03:37.645 --> 0:03:45.525 were discussing oppressive regimes, authoritarianism, any system of that sort 0:03:45.805 --> 0:03:51.445 that is really limiting human freedom in systematic ways, and 0:03:51.645 --> 0:03:55.605 that's absolutely what we see here. And I do think, 0:03:55.885 --> 0:03:59.805 you know, also there's some unfortunate relevance in the fact 0:03:59.885 --> 0:04:05.805 that we have this pretty blatantly illegal war launched against 0:04:05.925 --> 0:04:09.685 Iran on the part of the United States right now, 0:04:09.925 --> 0:04:14.205 and any chance to get to know an area that 0:04:14.325 --> 0:04:17.445 is being besieged in this way, I think is the 0:04:17.485 --> 0:04:22.045 movies just offer you a really helpful way to get 0:04:22.045 --> 0:04:25.565 your mind around that, beyond news reports and other sources 0:04:25.565 --> 0:04:29.405 of information. You know, I was grateful to our contemporary 0:04:29.405 --> 0:04:32.565 Iranian Cinema marathon when we first did it, for helping 0:04:32.605 --> 0:04:34.965 to educate and enlighten about that part of the world. 0:04:35.645 --> 0:04:40.724 And you know, those questions are anew with the conflict 0:04:40.725 --> 0:04:43.685 going on right now, and so I do think it 0:04:43.765 --> 0:04:47.445 was nice to see again set decades ago now but 0:04:47.565 --> 0:04:53.245 still to learn about movements and people's experiences of the 0:04:53.284 --> 0:04:57.684 regimes in Iran even now. So yeah, I think I'm 0:04:57.765 --> 0:05:00.965 glad we're here. Glad is a strange word. This hasn't 0:05:01.005 --> 0:05:03.604 been the cheeriest of marathons, but I do think it's 0:05:04.205 --> 0:05:07.445 it's fitting. Yeah, curious to hear what you think along 0:05:07.485 --> 0:05:10.045 those lines, and absolutely want to dig into that quality 0:05:10.125 --> 0:05:11.405 question you asked. 0:05:12.005 --> 0:05:15.005 I had a similar reaction as you. I'm certainly glad 0:05:15.605 --> 0:05:18.445 that we watched it. It's befitting in terms of its 0:05:18.445 --> 0:05:24.045 subject matter and befitting in terms of of quality. Trust 0:05:24.045 --> 0:05:27.325 Panahe to find the perfect I'm going to dig in, 0:05:27.365 --> 0:05:32.005 trust Panahi to find the perfect formal conceit to convey 0:05:32.445 --> 0:05:36.765 this portrait of systemic oppression. Right, this is what he 0:05:36.885 --> 0:05:40.205 has become so known for over the years. I have 0:05:40.284 --> 0:05:43.125 not seen The White Balloon, but I wondered if, even 0:05:43.165 --> 0:05:49.125 from the very beginning he was trying cinematic techniques like this, 0:05:49.245 --> 0:05:51.645 And from what I could understand, I didn't want to 0:05:51.725 --> 0:05:54.205 learn too much about it. It seems like that movie 0:05:54.245 --> 0:05:59.724 is relatively straightforward. It did win the Camera Door for 0:05:59.805 --> 0:06:03.245 Best First Feature at the can Film Festival in ninety five. 0:06:03.325 --> 0:06:05.685 The Guardian listed it as one of the fifty best 0:06:05.725 --> 0:06:10.205 family films. Ever, Bfi said that it's one of fifty 0:06:10.205 --> 0:06:12.325 films you should see by the age of fourteen. So 0:06:12.645 --> 0:06:14.525 this is a movie we should probably reckon with. At 0:06:14.525 --> 0:06:17.445 some point. We should see The White Balloons. But in 0:06:17.525 --> 0:06:22.485 terms of its narrative journey and how the craft and 0:06:22.605 --> 0:06:27.924 content meat pretty traditional. The Mirror next is where he 0:06:28.005 --> 0:06:31.484 starts playing the disruptor in terms of technique, and there's 0:06:32.165 --> 0:06:37.445 the Blue Heron esque rupturing of reality. Since then, he 0:06:37.725 --> 0:06:40.805 has almost always I'll say almost always because I didn't 0:06:40.805 --> 0:06:42.844 go back and look at every single film and every 0:06:42.844 --> 0:06:47.085 film that I know. He's almost always had a concept 0:06:47.725 --> 0:06:53.445 and an elegant one, and you catch on, or at 0:06:53.485 --> 0:06:56.125 least I thought I was catching on. Without knowing where 0:06:56.125 --> 0:06:59.164 this movie was going to go. I thought I might 0:06:59.205 --> 0:07:02.805 be catching on to the concept here when we get 0:07:02.805 --> 0:07:06.484 this incredible prelude the opening of this film. This opening scene, 0:07:06.485 --> 0:07:09.125 which is a relatively brief scene in terms of meeting 0:07:09.165 --> 0:07:13.125 this character, the grandmother character that the camera is focusing on. 0:07:13.645 --> 0:07:18.645 She is outside the door this whatever you want to 0:07:18.685 --> 0:07:21.205 call it, the food door or the peep holes. It 0:07:21.205 --> 0:07:24.005 looks like in a jail cell. You'll understand if you've 0:07:24.005 --> 0:07:26.485 seen the movie. Why I'm saying that. But this is 0:07:26.525 --> 0:07:29.085 a This is a hospital, and she's outside the door 0:07:29.525 --> 0:07:33.005 basically of a of a maternity room. Her daughter is 0:07:33.045 --> 0:07:36.365 giving birth, and at the beginning of this film, she's 0:07:36.405 --> 0:07:40.645 awaiting the good news that her daughter has given birth 0:07:40.685 --> 0:07:43.685 to a son. This is especially important to this family. 0:07:43.725 --> 0:07:49.165 It turns out, because the daughter's husband's family was told 0:07:49.205 --> 0:07:52.125 it would be a boy. The ultrasounds said it would 0:07:52.125 --> 0:07:55.645 be a boy. They want a boy, they're expecting a boy, 0:07:56.725 --> 0:08:04.205 and now she's just been told, congratulations, it's a girl. 0:08:17.445 --> 0:08:19.685 We don't even see the grandmother for a long time. 0:08:19.725 --> 0:08:22.005 We're just looking at the back of her head, but 0:08:22.085 --> 0:08:25.925 we can still understand, just from the way the camera 0:08:25.965 --> 0:08:30.245 is positioned behind her, per lack of movement, per lack 0:08:30.285 --> 0:08:33.485 of excitement, that something is off. And then we understand 0:08:33.525 --> 0:08:37.765 from her dialogue, where she essentially is saying some version 0:08:37.765 --> 0:08:41.444 of check again, that that can't be right. She's like, no, 0:08:41.805 --> 0:08:45.205 she doesn't believe it, and she doesn't more importantly, she 0:08:45.245 --> 0:08:49.485 doesn't want to believe it. But as as the camera then, 0:08:49.565 --> 0:08:52.405 and the camera, if I'm remembering correctly, I didn't go 0:08:52.485 --> 0:08:54.365 back just to be one hundred percent sure, But I 0:08:54.445 --> 0:08:58.285 think that entire opening is one long take, a continuous 0:08:58.325 --> 0:09:00.525 take where we follow her. I don't know if there 0:09:00.525 --> 0:09:03.845 are any cuts. We follow her past a couple of 0:09:03.845 --> 0:09:07.885 other characters, including another daughter, and then when she ends 0:09:07.965 --> 0:09:10.725 up out on the street, the baton, if you will, 0:09:10.765 --> 0:09:12.965 sort of gets passed to another character. 0:09:13.045 --> 0:09:14.885 And you you, and it's. 0:09:14.684 --> 0:09:16.925 In real time, and the fact that it's in real time, 0:09:17.005 --> 0:09:21.325 and the fact that then the grandmother disappears, you say, oh, okay, 0:09:21.925 --> 0:09:24.005 I wonder if then this is what's going to happen 0:09:24.045 --> 0:09:27.285 in this film is that we're going to be passed 0:09:27.845 --> 0:09:31.844 along different women and their stories, and that, indeed is 0:09:32.485 --> 0:09:35.645 the circle. That's just part of the circle metaphor of 0:09:35.684 --> 0:09:38.045 the title. That is indeed what happens, isn't it? And 0:09:38.125 --> 0:09:41.444 it is the It is the perfect metaphor. And I 0:09:42.205 --> 0:09:46.325 did not have a sense of just how perfect it 0:09:46.325 --> 0:09:51.245 would be and how devastating it would be until Panahi 0:09:51.645 --> 0:09:53.405 hits us with the stomach punch at the end. 0:09:54.605 --> 0:09:57.525 Yeah, the ending. I mean we should discuss in detail 0:09:57.564 --> 0:09:59.525 and give a little spoiler before we do that for 0:09:59.564 --> 0:10:01.525 folks who are encouraged to watch this for the first time, 0:10:01.564 --> 0:10:04.485 because I didn't know that's what was going to happen. 0:10:04.684 --> 0:10:07.725 But I do think it is the it is the 0:10:07.765 --> 0:10:10.365 triumph of the film is bringing us around to that point. 0:10:11.085 --> 0:10:13.125 You're right, but Tom, that's how I was thinking about 0:10:13.125 --> 0:10:15.645 this too. We essentially have a relay race here, because 0:10:15.684 --> 0:10:19.485 it's not just that first handoff. We go through I 0:10:19.525 --> 0:10:23.525 think three, possibly four or other women or groups of 0:10:23.564 --> 0:10:27.564 women we meet that the movie introduces us to. We 0:10:27.645 --> 0:10:30.725 run along with them for a short while. Some sort 0:10:30.725 --> 0:10:34.365 of resolution kind of comes in some segments, but yeah, 0:10:34.405 --> 0:10:39.285 not airways, and not fully. You know, the women's lives 0:10:39.405 --> 0:10:44.445 move ahead, certainly, but really do they get anywhere? I 0:10:44.485 --> 0:10:47.685 think we see that in most cases not. And you know, 0:10:47.725 --> 0:10:51.964 there's something also. There's a couple of ways this is 0:10:52.005 --> 0:10:56.485 so effective. And the one is we've talked about looking 0:10:56.485 --> 0:10:59.405 at these movies and their depictions of oppressive societies, and 0:10:59.885 --> 0:11:02.085 I think a lot of the movies we considered have 0:11:02.165 --> 0:11:05.245 a fairly broad canvas, you know, but still there are 0:11:05.285 --> 0:11:07.925 main characters in a lot of cases, or two or 0:11:07.925 --> 0:11:11.885 three main characters, and so we can get the sense of, well, 0:11:11.925 --> 0:11:15.325 this time and this oppression was experienced by this person, 0:11:15.885 --> 0:11:20.485 maybe this neighborhood. But by doing this, by expanding the 0:11:20.564 --> 0:11:24.205 canvas so wide in what is you know, probably the 0:11:24.205 --> 0:11:28.965 shortest film of the marathon, but certainly among them, in 0:11:29.445 --> 0:11:32.565 expanding things this wide, we really do get a sense 0:11:32.725 --> 0:11:37.804 of the societal reality that this isn't just a you know, 0:11:38.205 --> 0:11:41.725 a woman or two women in unfortunate situations, that this 0:11:41.885 --> 0:11:45.885 is a top down issue. So it does that, and 0:11:45.965 --> 0:11:49.165 it also does Adam, this is something you know, if 0:11:49.205 --> 0:11:51.085 you had told me the structure, I could have said, yeah, 0:11:51.085 --> 0:11:53.445 that's probably why he chose it, right, But it is 0:11:53.525 --> 0:11:58.245 only experiencing the structure that I think we realize. Going 0:11:58.245 --> 0:12:02.245 back to another quality you talked about devastating, I think 0:12:02.245 --> 0:12:08.885 there's a helplessness to not having these women's stories resolved 0:12:09.205 --> 0:12:13.204 or improved in most cases and anyway, and us as 0:12:13.285 --> 0:12:18.685 viewers moving on, you just feel so helpless, not obviously 0:12:19.125 --> 0:12:21.805 as a viewer that you could do so something for them, 0:12:22.125 --> 0:12:26.045 but I think there's a form of empathy going on. 0:12:26.085 --> 0:12:29.125 There's a contract between viewer and subject in a movie 0:12:29.845 --> 0:12:33.845 where we sort of feel like we're helping by watching 0:12:34.564 --> 0:12:40.045 something about our viewing, our attending, our witnessing, not practically 0:12:40.965 --> 0:12:43.645 but just in our movie going experience. We feel like 0:12:43.684 --> 0:12:46.965 we're there with them. And when that baton gets passed 0:12:47.085 --> 0:12:49.445 from one of them, still in a state of distress, 0:12:49.965 --> 0:12:53.165 and we pick up with someone else and we know 0:12:53.205 --> 0:12:55.765 we're likely not going to get back to the other person, 0:12:55.925 --> 0:12:59.045 there is an extra helplessness that I think feeds into 0:12:59.045 --> 0:13:03.925 that devastation you're describing that really makes this a wrenching, 0:13:04.405 --> 0:13:07.725 a wrenching experience. And let me go back just quickly 0:13:07.765 --> 0:13:10.205 to that, because you were laying it out in such 0:13:10.245 --> 0:13:13.285 detail that opening sequence. There's one thing I want to 0:13:13.325 --> 0:13:16.485 point out about the first baton pass as well, because 0:13:16.725 --> 0:13:20.885 it speaks to your point about Panahi's really incisive use 0:13:20.925 --> 0:13:24.485 of his locations and putting us in the moment, if 0:13:24.525 --> 0:13:28.485 not always precisely long, single takes, certainly longer takes that 0:13:28.605 --> 0:13:31.845 have that feeling. So we follow that grandmother out onto 0:13:31.885 --> 0:13:34.845 the street, and this is where we pick up three 0:13:34.925 --> 0:13:39.405 new women, Arazoo Nargs and then another woman who I 0:13:39.405 --> 0:13:42.725 don't think is named, and this is all on the 0:13:42.765 --> 0:13:48.285 block that the hospital is on. Basically, they separate. We're 0:13:48.285 --> 0:13:51.805 introduced to three women and they separate Nares. The youngest 0:13:51.845 --> 0:13:54.485 stays in the middle where the camera met them, and 0:13:54.564 --> 0:13:56.605 then one of them goes to one far end of 0:13:56.605 --> 0:13:58.645 the block and the other goes to the other far 0:13:58.765 --> 0:14:01.685 end of the block. And the camera looks back and forth, 0:14:01.804 --> 0:14:05.245 and what we're witnessing is that the woman, I think 0:14:05.325 --> 0:14:09.485 it's Arizoo, who goes to the one end to chase 0:14:09.525 --> 0:14:11.925 down a guy who just said something rude to them. Right, 0:14:12.804 --> 0:14:15.285 the other friend goes to the under end of the block. 0:14:15.525 --> 0:14:17.325 I think she's going to a newspaper stand, and the 0:14:17.365 --> 0:14:20.525 camera sees that she's beginning to have a confrontation with 0:14:20.605 --> 0:14:24.445 police and by going back and forth. By looking back 0:14:24.485 --> 0:14:27.805 and forth, we realize that in the course of a 0:14:27.805 --> 0:14:32.005 single block, this is what these three women are experiencing. 0:14:32.125 --> 0:14:34.885 In the middle now, Jess is in this just frightened 0:14:34.925 --> 0:14:38.165 state of not knowing where to move. And again it's 0:14:38.365 --> 0:14:40.645 we'll probably spend more time on this, but Panahi's use 0:14:40.725 --> 0:14:46.045 of the street settings, it just shows you that all 0:14:46.085 --> 0:14:49.045 of this can take place within the course of you know, 0:14:49.125 --> 0:14:51.045 I don't know, one hundred feet or whatever it is. 0:14:51.245 --> 0:14:55.205 Yeah, one hundred feet and a normal day, a fairly 0:14:55.245 --> 0:14:58.485 normal experience, and that is what we get over the 0:14:58.525 --> 0:15:02.685 course of this movie. Helplessness is the right word, because 0:15:02.725 --> 0:15:08.245 the only problem with us using the terminology baton or 0:15:08.285 --> 0:15:10.325 talking about it like it's a race is if it 0:15:10.365 --> 0:15:13.005 was really a race and they were going around the oval, 0:15:13.845 --> 0:15:16.565 is there's a finish line. 0:15:16.685 --> 0:15:18.485 But there's no finish line here. 0:15:18.645 --> 0:15:24.445 That's the entire point is this just continues and continues 0:15:25.485 --> 0:15:30.365 and there is no resolution. There's certainly no neat resolution 0:15:30.885 --> 0:15:36.605 to any of this, and sometimes we get that brought 0:15:36.645 --> 0:15:40.525 to life with the camera. Did you notice how often 0:15:40.845 --> 0:15:46.365 in spaces, whether it's at for example, the bus station, 0:15:47.005 --> 0:15:51.085 we see these women often going around in circles. There 0:15:51.125 --> 0:15:54.645 are parts of these locations where it feels like they 0:15:54.725 --> 0:15:58.325 are they are walking in a loop, or they're they're 0:15:58.405 --> 0:16:00.405 retracing their steps. 0:16:00.125 --> 0:16:01.645 That's one of this too. 0:16:02.005 --> 0:16:07.525 But often it's just a matter of their confinement. And 0:16:07.685 --> 0:16:11.325 that's that's what that's what he shows is that no 0:16:11.365 --> 0:16:16.365 matter where they are, no matter if they're in open spaces, 0:16:17.045 --> 0:16:23.525 they are somehow still trapped. They are trapped by this system. 0:16:23.725 --> 0:16:28.885 They are trapped by this this condition, the condition of 0:16:28.925 --> 0:16:34.845 this state that demands that men get to make all 0:16:34.885 --> 0:16:37.085 the decisions for them. Think about how many times you 0:16:37.165 --> 0:16:39.645 hear people say I mean Perry is one of the 0:16:40.045 --> 0:16:43.325 or Pari is one of the characters who she's she's 0:16:43.405 --> 0:16:47.005 four months pregnant, she has no identification, she doesn't have 0:16:47.045 --> 0:16:51.485 a father who can take responsibility for her, she doesn't 0:16:51.485 --> 0:16:53.965 have a husband, and she just says at one point 0:16:53.965 --> 0:16:55.965 to the one person she thinks can help her, I 0:16:56.005 --> 0:16:58.525 don't know what to do. I don't know where to go. 0:16:59.325 --> 0:17:04.484 And that's true. She she is completely helpless. The woman 0:17:04.565 --> 0:17:07.605 we see at the very end, Josh, who is on 0:17:07.725 --> 0:17:11.325 a bus and even the way that bus is shot, 0:17:11.845 --> 0:17:14.845 she's sitting there and and how is it how is 0:17:14.885 --> 0:17:18.405 it portrayed. There's like four other men and and they're 0:17:18.485 --> 0:17:21.565 they're all angled around her so that there's just there's 0:17:21.605 --> 0:17:24.805 just no escape there, there's no escape. And the bus, 0:17:24.845 --> 0:17:29.005 the ticket person, the taxi driver, they have to beg 0:17:29.165 --> 0:17:32.445 people to do them favors. They have to beg men 0:17:33.005 --> 0:17:36.525 to do them favors, simply to do basic things like 0:17:36.925 --> 0:17:39.525 I want to buy I want to buy a bus ticket. 0:17:40.005 --> 0:17:43.645 That's the Yeah, that's the those conditions that they're living under. 0:17:44.005 --> 0:17:46.285 To go back to the woman on that prison bus 0:17:46.325 --> 0:17:50.405 at the very end, and men making the decisions and 0:17:50.445 --> 0:17:53.245 making the rules even in the moment can't smell talk 0:17:53.245 --> 0:17:57.525 about talk about the payoff to the repeated motif from 0:17:57.525 --> 0:18:02.445 the very beginning about these women failing to light a cigarette, 0:18:02.565 --> 0:18:06.045 wanting to have a cigarette, and how many sequences, Adam, 0:18:06.445 --> 0:18:09.365 do they start to light one for some reason or 0:18:09.405 --> 0:18:11.245 ask for one and it's it's failed. 0:18:11.445 --> 0:18:13.045 Yeah, they no matches whatever. 0:18:13.125 --> 0:18:15.285 I don't think I don't think anyone gets to have 0:18:15.325 --> 0:18:18.605 a cigarette in the point until this sequence where this 0:18:18.645 --> 0:18:21.365 woman who has been picked up. We understand she was 0:18:21.525 --> 0:18:23.805 on the street and a man picked her up, that 0:18:23.885 --> 0:18:27.325 she's a sex worker, and the man is let go. 0:18:27.805 --> 0:18:30.725 She gets arrested. She's on this prison bus with, as 0:18:30.725 --> 0:18:34.605 you said, a couple other men, and she tries to 0:18:34.725 --> 0:18:37.045 light a cigarette and is told no smoking on here. 0:18:37.645 --> 0:18:41.645 What happens later a little bit later, the one or 0:18:41.645 --> 0:18:44.565 two of the other men on the bus they light 0:18:45.325 --> 0:18:49.205 their cigarette, and so suddenly they're smoking, and we cut 0:18:49.285 --> 0:18:52.565 back to this woman and she looks and I forget 0:18:52.565 --> 0:18:55.005 exactly how it happens, but basically the point is she 0:18:55.045 --> 0:18:58.365 either lights her own again. She tries again and figures, well, 0:18:58.405 --> 0:19:00.165 if they're doing it now, I can do it. And 0:19:00.205 --> 0:19:02.925 she's allowed to. But it's the first cigarette in the 0:19:02.925 --> 0:19:06.485 film that's actually lit, is not until the men have 0:19:06.645 --> 0:19:09.685 done it first for themselves, which just speaks to your 0:19:09.685 --> 0:19:13.845 point about, you know, decisions being completely out of your control, 0:19:14.045 --> 0:19:19.405 even something as personal as that is that they all. 0:19:34.885 --> 0:19:37.565 Do. We go ahead and talk about the end, acknowledging 0:19:37.605 --> 0:19:40.205 that we have to we have to say that this 0:19:40.285 --> 0:19:42.165 is heavy spoilers or are there other things you want to 0:19:42.205 --> 0:19:42.645 talk about. 0:19:42.885 --> 0:19:46.805 I do want to build on your note about imprisonment 0:19:47.125 --> 0:19:52.645 and the visual nature of this, because I noticed fairly 0:19:52.685 --> 0:19:57.325 early on that there is so much jail imagery or 0:19:57.365 --> 0:20:00.285 just bars on the screen, and you were already touching 0:20:00.285 --> 0:20:03.405 on one when you talked about narjest circling at the 0:20:03.405 --> 0:20:06.485 bus station, and she does. It's that lower level, so 0:20:06.525 --> 0:20:09.525 they're floor to ceiling windows, but each pane of window 0:20:09.565 --> 0:20:13.685 is separated by a vertical black bar, and as she's circling, 0:20:14.085 --> 0:20:18.765 which you described, the movement makes those they almost come 0:20:18.845 --> 0:20:21.765 quicker than they would if she was just walking looking slowly, 0:20:21.885 --> 0:20:25.645 and they definitely to me had the feeling of jail bars. 0:20:26.125 --> 0:20:29.925 You can see there's another just shot again Panaki using 0:20:29.965 --> 0:20:33.005 the streets so well, of Nargetes crouching against a wall, 0:20:33.565 --> 0:20:36.405 and the wall is next to a gated door, and 0:20:36.445 --> 0:20:38.965 of course there are bars on that, but just maybe 0:20:39.005 --> 0:20:42.205 they waited for the light to be right. But the 0:20:42.285 --> 0:20:45.245 bars are also casting a shadow onto the ground in 0:20:45.285 --> 0:20:48.085 front of her, reminding her as we learn that her 0:20:48.085 --> 0:20:50.245 and the other two women she's with they snuck out 0:20:50.285 --> 0:20:54.445 of prison that morning, and so it's still haunting her 0:20:54.765 --> 0:20:57.805 even though she's escaped. And then just one more I 0:20:57.845 --> 0:21:01.125 really liked. Pari goes to talk to a friend who 0:21:01.165 --> 0:21:03.885 works at a movie theater in the ticket booth and 0:21:04.165 --> 0:21:08.285 she's allowed inside. Panahi keeps the camera outside the ticket booth, 0:21:08.565 --> 0:21:10.965 frames their faces in the window where you pay for 0:21:11.005 --> 0:21:13.885 your tickets, which of course has bars as well, so 0:21:13.925 --> 0:21:19.885 that idea of imprisonment is also very much built into 0:21:19.885 --> 0:21:20.605 the composition. 0:21:21.325 --> 0:21:26.605 Choices of locales imprisonment or barriers to entry, right, they're 0:21:26.645 --> 0:21:29.565 either stuck or they can't get in. That is the 0:21:29.565 --> 0:21:34.845 point that is just the accepted or well it is unfortunately, 0:21:34.845 --> 0:21:38.645 it's the accepted part of existence. They really have no 0:21:38.845 --> 0:21:41.565 choice in this case, these women. 0:21:41.685 --> 0:21:42.325 Unfortunately. 0:21:42.925 --> 0:21:47.925 That is something that Panahi really very vividly depicts in 0:21:47.965 --> 0:21:52.565 this film. People listening who may be thinking, Okay, I 0:21:52.605 --> 0:21:56.805 want to see this movie before especially they spoil the 0:21:57.325 --> 0:22:02.165 ending of the film. There there isn't with this movie 0:22:02.325 --> 0:22:04.925 exactly a case where we could spoil the plot of 0:22:04.965 --> 0:22:07.765 the movie or a big reveal. But as we're talking 0:22:07.845 --> 0:22:12.605 about the formal conceit and how important it is, I didn't, 0:22:12.645 --> 0:22:16.125 as I alluded to expect that it would have the 0:22:16.965 --> 0:22:19.925 total payoff that it does at the end, the devastating 0:22:19.965 --> 0:22:23.885 payoff that it does. So if you want it shouldn't 0:22:23.925 --> 0:22:26.525 be surprising because it's Panahi, and especially after something like 0:22:26.565 --> 0:22:28.605 the ending of it was just an accident A. 0:22:28.565 --> 0:22:29.285 Year or two ago. 0:22:30.285 --> 0:22:32.005 Of course he would give us something like this, but 0:22:32.325 --> 0:22:34.565 I wasn't anticipating it. If you don't want to hear 0:22:34.645 --> 0:22:36.925 us talk about it, you do want to watch this movie. 0:22:37.045 --> 0:22:39.405 This was the one movie. Another reason why we considered 0:22:39.445 --> 0:22:42.125 not putting it in the marathon was that we couldn't 0:22:42.165 --> 0:22:45.165 find it. It didn't seem to be available on DVD, 0:22:45.645 --> 0:22:49.005 couldn't get it at the at the library, no streaming 0:22:49.045 --> 0:22:51.765 or VOD platforms had it. And a listener wrote in, 0:22:51.885 --> 0:22:53.845 and maybe as we're talking I can look it up 0:22:53.925 --> 0:22:56.325 just to make sure we give him credit and said, well, 0:22:56.685 --> 0:23:00.085 you know, the whole thing is legal or illegal. The 0:23:00.125 --> 0:23:04.405 whole thing is English subtitled on YouTube, and it is. 0:23:04.645 --> 0:23:07.165 And if you go to our marathons page, we have 0:23:07.205 --> 0:23:08.805 a link to it, or you can just go to 0:23:08.925 --> 0:23:11.845 YouTube and type in the circle Panahi and it will 0:23:11.845 --> 0:23:14.245 come up, and it's ninety minutes long. And we're obviously 0:23:14.365 --> 0:23:17.405 encouraging you to watch it. So have we done our 0:23:17.485 --> 0:23:20.965 due diligence, Josh and setting up the ending and spoil 0:23:21.325 --> 0:23:25.405 as we talk about it. Could you have ever anticipated 0:23:26.285 --> 0:23:28.165 the gut punch that we get at the end of 0:23:28.205 --> 0:23:28.965 this film? 0:23:29.485 --> 0:23:31.685 I mean, I think if we if I tried to 0:23:31.725 --> 0:23:34.645 plot it out and realize the structure he'd been using 0:23:34.845 --> 0:23:38.205 and thought more deeply about the title, I might you 0:23:38.245 --> 0:23:40.965 can see how we get there, right, but it still 0:23:40.965 --> 0:23:43.725 did take me by surprise. There is a reference at 0:23:43.765 --> 0:23:46.885 one point to one of the women to take me 0:23:46.965 --> 0:23:49.765 to the circle in the taxi car. So so I 0:23:49.765 --> 0:23:52.685 had already understood, like this must be, you know, a 0:23:52.765 --> 0:23:56.325 neighborhood or maybe a traffic area that she's referring to. 0:23:56.725 --> 0:24:01.085 Maybe that's all the title is pulling from. But yeah, 0:24:01.205 --> 0:24:05.725 to bring us again following that arrested sex worker played 0:24:05.725 --> 0:24:10.885 by Emojgan Faramarzi, who brings a very refreshing attitude like 0:24:10.965 --> 0:24:13.725 she's she's the one who who kind of pushes back 0:24:14.965 --> 0:24:18.005 the most. I think, well, that's not true. Actually, I 0:24:18.005 --> 0:24:22.165 would say one of the one goes to chase down 0:24:22.165 --> 0:24:26.125 the men who are being rude. She also Pari. I 0:24:26.125 --> 0:24:29.965 think it's Pari. Yeah, she also has some things to say, 0:24:30.005 --> 0:24:33.365 but at any rate, to know that we're going to 0:24:33.565 --> 0:24:39.765 follow her after being arrested into a holding cell where 0:24:39.765 --> 0:24:44.245 we're going to meet again, reacquaint some of the other 0:24:44.285 --> 0:24:47.645 women we've already met and see contradicting what we were 0:24:47.685 --> 0:24:49.765