1 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, and welcome to Bloomberg Intelligence Talking Transports podcast. 2 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,159 Speaker 1: I'm your host Lee Clascow, Senior Freight Transportation Legious six 3 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: analysts at Bloomberg Intelligence, Bloomberg's in house research arm. We're 4 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: delighted to have Jeff McCandless, founder and CEO of Project 5 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: forty four. JET has spent over twenty five years working 6 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: in the transportation logistics space, guiding multiple startups from ideation 7 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: stages through and to growth and scaling. After becoming principal 8 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: of Global trans Jet sold a steak in the company 9 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: to pursue his own venture. He started building companies like 10 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: inc five hundred ranked advisory firm met Forma, which is 11 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: formerly Carrier Direct. Next, he founded Project forty four, the 12 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: creator of the world's leading high velocity platform movement. Thanks 13 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: for joining us and welcome to the podcast. 14 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 2: Jet. Thanks Lee, Thanks have me here today. 15 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: My pleasure. So Project forty four for those in transportation, 16 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: it's kind of a household name. For those outside of transportation, 17 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 1: sounds like a cool company, like sounds like maybe it 18 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: has to do with aliens or something like that. Can 19 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:15,839 Speaker 1: you tell people what Project forty four does? 20 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 2: Yes? 21 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 3: Absolutely, Project forty four is the connective tissue for logistics 22 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 3: and supply chain. 23 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 2: The company's about nine. 24 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 3: Years old and we did it's really digitalized the largest, 25 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 3: one of the largest industries in the world. One of 26 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 3: the products that people know is really well for is 27 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 3: something called visibility. So where's my stuff or where's my 28 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 3: sales order a po and we do a lot of 29 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 3: other things. Excited to unpack that today with you, but 30 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 3: really that connective tissue for logistics, if you kind of 31 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 3: put it in context for people, if you're on this 32 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 3: podcast and you had food, or you have shoes on, 33 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 3: or you're in a room with paint, you're using products 34 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 3: that our software has provided visibility on. 35 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: When you say visibility, are you saying so the shipber 36 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: can just see where they're, where their freight is throughout 37 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: the cycle, whether it's is it, is it everything? Is 38 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: it ocean, air, truck? Rail? What can what can users 39 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: see on the platform. 40 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, So if we start to unpack that a little bit, 41 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 3: we think of visibility in two different layers. Really, you 42 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 3: have transportation visibility, right, which is what you're you're mentioning there, 43 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 3: which would be a mode specific could be rail, could 44 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 3: be truck, could be barged, could be ocean, could be 45 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 3: the terminal supports, and that's kind of a point solution. 46 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 3: There's cannily there's a lot of companies out there that 47 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:34,959 Speaker 3: do that. 48 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 2: Maybe they just. 49 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 3: Specialize in FTL or full truckload visibility. What we offer 50 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 3: is global visibility, so all modes of transportation and all 51 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 3: geographies around the world. And because we can offer that, 52 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 3: and we're the only company that can, we can actually 53 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 3: elevate the conversation with something more strategic with inside these 54 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 3: global two thousand companies. What we can offer them is 55 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,519 Speaker 3: visibility of their sales order, their or their skew or 56 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 3: their part number. So we're able to stitch all those 57 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 3: modes together all the way from inland China to the 58 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,679 Speaker 3: doorstep and provide that visibility. 59 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 2: So kind of two layers there. 60 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 3: I like to think of it as little V, which 61 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 3: is transportation visibility, or big V, which is order visibility. 62 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: All right, whichever V we're talking about, how is that done? Basically? 63 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: I mean, we don't need to get too much into 64 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: the weeds, but I mean it's not an RFID that 65 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: you have or like, how does your system speak with 66 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: the palette of freight. 67 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're correct, We don't have any type of hardware. 68 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 3: We're not in the hardware business. We're really not the 69 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 3: primary source of data. It does vary from mode of 70 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 3: transportation and from different geographies. But I'll give you a 71 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 3: few examples here. Okay, if we're talking about full truckload, 72 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 3: which is a very large fragmented in the Western world, 73 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 3: it's about one point seven trillion dollars of revenue. There's 74 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 3: three main methods that we connect to either into a 75 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 3: public or private API carrier may have the telematox device 76 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 3: that's inside the cab the actual of the truck or 77 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 3: tractors would refer to it in the industry, or a 78 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 3: mobile app. What we do is we take that primary 79 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 3: source of data, then we add machine learning onto it 80 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 3: with our large data set AI and many use cases also, 81 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 3: and we do improve that data quite quite a bit. 82 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,559 Speaker 3: If you're looking at say ocean, let's talk about vessel 83 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 3: and I think today, I bet you'll come up about 84 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 3: some of these crisis that are happening around the world 85 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 3: with the Red Sea and other places that could be 86 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 3: a little bit different. You take the primary source of 87 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 3: data from the ocean vessels themselves. We also take satellite 88 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 3: positioning data and other sources of data. We actually use 89 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 3: data upstream and downstream, like what's happening at the rail 90 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 3: yards or what's happening to the trucks, both upstream and downstream, 91 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 3: and start to figure out and triangulate where that, where 92 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 3: that vessels at, or what the ETAs are for that 93 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 3: with those vessels. So stitching that all together and having 94 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 3: those networks is very very compos okay. 95 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: And so for those out there, Project forty four is 96 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: a private company, you know, what what is your adjustable market? 97 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 3: We really focus on the global two thousand shippers that 98 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 3: are out there. Some folks may refer to them as BCOs. 99 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 3: We also have a really large what folks would refer 100 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 3: to as logistics service providers as customer base. If you 101 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 3: look at the top third party logistics companies, the top 102 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 3: one hundred and eighty two of them where customers or 103 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 3: Project forty four. If you look at the top twenty 104 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 3: freight forwarders, eighteen of them where customers are Project forty four. 105 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 1: What are the other two thinking? 106 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: Yeah? 107 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 3: Well, what we've what we've seen is that companies that 108 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 3: use Project forty four are able to use as as 109 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 3: a strategic weapon, right, and some use US to as 110 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 3: a bit like a utility, and some of them use 111 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 3: the large data sets to really provide more service to 112 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,559 Speaker 3: their customers than other companies can. And there is actually 113 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 3: a direct correlation to the stock value of these companies 114 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 3: and performance. I'm not saying that we're the only thing 115 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 3: that impacts at right, but the two that don't use 116 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 3: us don't perform as well as the other. And those 117 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 3: global two thousand shippers that are out there, these are companies. 118 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 3: If you had a coffee this morning. 119 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 2: It's probably a customer. If you have a phone in 120 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 2: your pocket. 121 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 3: It's a customer. So if you have shoes on, it's 122 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 3: probably a customer. So these are the types of companies 123 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 3: that we're really helping them optimize their the logistics and 124 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 3: supply chain. 125 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: So you're selling into forwarders, you're selling into b cos? 126 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: Are you selling into like trucking companies as well? 127 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 3: Like? 128 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 1: Are those also the people that are using your systems, 129 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: the capacity providers, whether it's trucking, rail or air freight protion. 130 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, that topic itself can become a little complicated, but 131 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 3: we'll do our best here to take to take a 132 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 3: look at it. So I tend to think any service 133 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 3: provider that's doing a taking a pickup and a delivery 134 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 3: as a carrier, and then I would bifurcate that to 135 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 3: an asset carrier and a non asset carrier. Right, So 136 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 3: a good example of a non asset carrier would maybe 137 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 3: be a truckload brokerage or some freight forwarders. 138 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 2: For some freightfwarders have assets. 139 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 3: So yes, in that sense, there's some side switching that 140 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 3: happens on the platform that a freightforder may be a customer, 141 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 3: but we may also connect into their data to provide 142 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 3: it to the BCOs or the shippers. Another example of 143 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 3: where the carriers buy data from US or they use 144 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 3: US our platform is in Europe, it's very very common 145 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 3: for full truckload carriers to known as subcontracting. In the US, 146 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 3: it's referred to as double brokery. It's almost the sin 147 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 3: in the US, but in Europe it's very common. In Europe, 148 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 3: a lot of the carriers by the product from US 149 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 3: that they can gain visibility on the subcontracted carriers that 150 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 3: they're using. 151 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,239 Speaker 1: Okay, so you know you obviously came up with an idea. 152 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: There was a problem that you wanted to solve. What 153 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: is the major problem that Project forty four was born 154 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: to solve. Obviously, your business matures, you're going to find 155 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: more things to solve. But what was the initial idea 156 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: when you were sitting there. I don't know, over I 157 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: don't know how you think, but like whether it's doing 158 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: yoga or over scotch, when you came up with the idea, 159 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: did what problem did you want to solve? 160 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 3: Think back then, I was probably doing yoga and entering 161 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 3: in Scotch at the same time. But you know, it 162 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 3: all kind of came to me nineteen ninety nine. It 163 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 3: was my first job in trucking. I was in Portland, Oregon, 164 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 3: and I worked for a trucking company called Roadway Express, 165 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 3: another one that's gone out of business. 166 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 2: I know before the show we were kind of talking 167 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 2: about some of that. 168 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I was making twelve dollars an hour as 169 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 3: a clerk and my job was to answer the phone 170 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 3: and what was known as city dispatch, so local drivers 171 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 3: were pick up and delivery. And it's how Columbia Sports 172 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 3: where Nike and boflex what the ETA was for their truck. 173 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 3: And I remember I looked over at my boss. I 174 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,839 Speaker 3: was going to community college at the time, and I said, hey, 175 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 3: we have this internet thing at at Universe and we 176 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 3: could like connect our you know, Nike's Big Columbia Sports 177 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 3: Wars Big Roadway was pretty big back then, a three billion, 178 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 3: I think in revenue. So can we just connect our 179 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 3: systems and he says, shut up. Could keep answering the 180 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 3: phone and tell when the truck's going to be there 181 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,559 Speaker 3: in fifteen minutes, right, And so that kind of always 182 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 3: stuck with me. But as I did a lot of 183 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 3: operations job with the carriers and then a third party 184 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 3: logistics company, we kind of were one of the first 185 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 3: companies to have LTL online. And when we had LTL 186 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 3: where you could kind of have a kayak type experience. 187 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 3: We could get a rate, quote a price, and then 188 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 3: you could tender and then you could do the tracking 189 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 3: and the ETA. What I noticed in that third party 190 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 3: logistics company we were growing very very fast, and our 191 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 3: headcount was also growing very fast. And so the real 192 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 3: underlying problem was there was no connective tissue. And that's 193 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 3: the first thing I noticed in nineteen ninety nine. It's 194 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 3: the first and then I noticed it at this three 195 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 3: pl called Global trans we were really a mechanical Turk. 196 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 3: So then I opened a consulting company, and I consulted 197 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 3: for all kinds of three pls and carriers and shippers, 198 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 3: and what I realized is is that no one has 199 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 3: this problem solved. What it is consumers, I could feel 200 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 3: a totally different experience, whether you're booking travel online or 201 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 3: you swipe a credit card at a merchant, you could 202 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 3: see instant data move back and forth in a synchronous way. 203 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 3: And when you really start unpack that, what I could find. 204 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 3: What I saw is that there was a connective tissue 205 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 3: in these other industries that logistics just didn't have. And 206 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 3: in these other industries they use the technology called API, 207 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 3: which are becoming much more popular now in logistics, but 208 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 3: nine ten years ago in the logistics it was very novel. 209 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 3: And so we said, let's start out. Let's solve this 210 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 3: problem the inside out, and we started as data as 211 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 3: a service, that kind of first iteration, there's no UI, 212 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 3: let's plug this data's service into other systems of record. 213 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 2: And that had its own challenges. 214 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: And so you know, supply chains always get disrupted. Since COVID, 215 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 1: those justtion have been exaggerated and longer than normal. Has 216 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: that benefited project forty four in terms of shippers and 217 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: capacity providers and forwarders or whoever you know your market 218 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: is saying, you know, this is a useful tool because 219 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:20,839 Speaker 1: we need to know where our stuff is and when 220 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 1: it's going to get to where it needs to be 221 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: because you know, with the sus Canal pretty much non 222 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: operatable right now, you know that's adding depending on where 223 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: you're going ten to twelve days. So has that been 224 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: the kind of the disruption that we've seen since COVID 225 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: been for your business? 226 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, first I look at those not as headwinds 227 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 3: or tailwinds for the business. I look them as the 228 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 3: tragedies that I think they are in many negative people 229 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 3: that are that are impacted by that, right, And I 230 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 3: look at it also as it really just makes it 231 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 3: tougher for our customers to operate. And so then I 232 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 3: look at it as well as Project forty four for 233 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 3: the challenge, can we help add value to our customers 234 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 3: to deal with these difficult situations? And what we find 235 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 3: is that yes we can. So when you have, as 236 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 3: you mentioned, the crisis with the Red Sea, about four 237 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 3: hundred and fifty container vessels have had to be rerouted 238 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 3: across there and that's a very significant amount of containers 239 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 3: or GDP that's been disrupted by that. Or if you 240 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 3: look at the Panama Canal and the challenges the restrictions 241 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:22,719 Speaker 3: that are happening. 242 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 2: There from a lower water level. 243 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 3: You also look at the Black Sea, which is going 244 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 3: on about close to three years now, I think with 245 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 3: China and Russia. So you could see all three of 246 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 3: these major events really straining the ocean vessel and the 247 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 3: supply chain. Interesting, it hasn't really cracked or broke yet. 248 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 3: There's been some disruptions, but it's kind of been manageable, 249 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 3: but it's. 250 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 2: Under a lot of pressure. 251 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 3: And what our customers are looking for on these types 252 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 3: of situations is they want to know how do they 253 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 3: avoid a plant shutdown. You know, we have a lot 254 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 3: of auto we have a lot of manufacturers, we have 255 00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 3: a lot of retailers. 256 00:12:58,160 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 2: They want to know how do. 257 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 3: They avoid a plant down? Then they need to expedite 258 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 3: a shipment, and there's a lot of challenges. How much 259 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,439 Speaker 3: is expediting for someone that's not from the indusuy, They go, yeah, 260 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 3: just put it on a plane. Well, planes are much 261 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 3: more expensive than ocean. Also, thankfully, there's a pretty good 262 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 3: push in the world right now for lower emissions, and 263 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 3: planes emit significantly more carbon than a ship would. So 264 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 3: you have two negatives there, and the customers are trying 265 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 3: to figure out, do I have a planet shutdown? 266 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 2: Don't I have a plant shutdown? 267 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:28,959 Speaker 3: Do I have the product? Can I sell the product? 268 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 3: How's going to impact my earnings? Should I have more 269 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 3: inventory or less inventory? And luckily they can lean on 270 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 3: us to help answer those questions. 271 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: Okay, And so you know, I think you mentioned earlier. 272 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: Project forty four is nine years old. Are you still 273 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: in growth mode or are you starting to mature? Like 274 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: how much of the market have you penetrated? And you know, 275 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: how much more of the market do you think you 276 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: guys can capture. 277 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 3: We're still in growth mode for SaaS, Enterprise SaaS and 278 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 3: a lot of tech tech SPASE. The market certainly has 279 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 3: changed quite a bit over the last two and a 280 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 3: half years. 281 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: And I heard you mentioned AI earlier, so that probably 282 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: gave you a couple of turns right there. In evaluation. 283 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 3: We have a very large, large, large data set that 284 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 3: we apply AI on and number of different ways that 285 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 3: we can talk about if you'd like, But I'd say 286 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 3: we're looking at ey fishing growth right now. So last 287 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 3: year we grew our gap revenue over thirty percent year 288 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 3: over year. Now, there are a number of headwinds that 289 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 3: which was a low growth rate for us that's probably 290 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 3: at scale the fastest are certainly top three fastest growing 291 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 3: companies in all of logistics, whether it's a three pl 292 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 3: or a carrier or a tech company that's at scale. 293 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 3: We have a lot of pressures. 294 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 2: On the business. 295 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 3: We've seen volume come down, we've seen multiples come down. 296 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 3: They're there, but I feel quite confident that we'll get 297 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 3: back to fifty sixty percent growth year over year. There's 298 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 3: a number of vectors that we can grow the business on. 299 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 3: We're well on the path to that. We did some 300 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 3: very complicated acquisitions in twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, and 301 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 3: twenty twenty two that have all come together now on 302 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 3: a one platform which gives us accelerated value to the 303 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 3: customers and more use cases. And answer your question of 304 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 3: how far we're penetrated. Although we have literally hundreds and 305 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 3: hundreds of global two thousand customers, we're less than one 306 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 3: percent of the way to realize in our vision and 307 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 3: what the company's capable of doing. I see a world 308 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 3: where will be well over twenty billion dollars of ARR 309 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 3: and so well over one hundred billion dollars of enterprise value, 310 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 3: and a company that will be around much longer than 311 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 3: I will, for probably nearly a century. 312 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: And you know you mentioned just before you did a 313 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: couple of different acquisitions, So what kind of services did 314 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: those allow you to do that you weren't doing before? 315 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 3: So Project forty four is a five network business. And 316 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 3: when I always ask, we have the best investors in 317 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 3: the world, whether it's Goldman Sachs, Insight Partners, Emergence, Sapphire, 318 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 3: Chicago Ventures, all these investors always ask them, hey, show 319 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 3: us market comps or if you're talking with some of 320 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 3: the bankers on you know, I po events to something, 321 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 3: show me another five layer network business. And they can 322 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 3: never come up with one. Maybe they can find a 323 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 3: two layer or a three layer network business. 324 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: Some question, what does five layer mean? What does that mean? 325 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's there's there's five layers. 326 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: Uh, I know a seven layer cake, five layer company. 327 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 2: This seven layer cake probably tastes better. 328 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 3: So when we talk about like inland China, we're the 329 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 3: only visibility company that can take data out of China, Okay, 330 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 3: that's a network within itself. Having all of those those 331 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 3: ground transportation LTL and truckload carriers, all that telematics, all 332 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 3: those APIs, have that all set up. And then if 333 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 3: you look at that, that's one layer. Then if you 334 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 3: look at all the terminals and ports around the world, 335 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 3: that's another layer, okay. And then if you look at 336 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 3: the ocean vessels, that's another layer, understand, and look at 337 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,479 Speaker 3: air freight that's another layer. So you look at all 338 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 3: these different layers. Now what's complicated about what we do 339 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 3: is stitching those layers together is very, very complicated to 340 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 3: provide one one experience, and so that complication. 341 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 2: I don't think we've quite yet been rewarded by the. 342 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 3: By the market yet for what's happening there, but very 343 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 3: soon I think that we're going to see that the 344 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 3: use cases start to be unlocked by having this global 345 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 3: network are pretty remarkable. 346 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: Okay, And you know you mentioned about being rewarded by 347 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: the market. What are what are the plans for Project 348 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: forty four? Are you hoping to take the company public 349 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: down the road? 350 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, okay, yeah, definitely. 351 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 1: All right, cool, and so is that something that you 352 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 1: know you talk about in terms of is this like 353 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: one year off, five years off, or like you just 354 00:17:58,640 --> 00:17:59,239 Speaker 1: don't really know. 355 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:00,040 Speaker 2: Well, I think it. 356 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 3: It is tough to predict the IPO windows as we 357 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 3: sit here in late February of twenty four. There will 358 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 3: be some IPOs that happened this year, but it doesn't 359 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 3: seem like this is going to be a huge, huge 360 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 3: IPO year. And now there are some really great companies 361 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 3: that have that have tried, and some success and some 362 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 3: without success. The bar has increased on what it takes 363 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,120 Speaker 3: for an enterprise ass company to go public two three 364 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 3: years ago. You need to be about one hundred million 365 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 3: dollars of ARR And you know, we probably could have 366 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 3: could have considered it there. 367 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 2: We didn't think that we. 368 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 3: Were mature enough from a process standpoint, and we didn't 369 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 3: feel like we had all the acquisitions pulled together well 370 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 3: enough for. 371 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 2: That to be the right time. 372 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 3: And of course there was the people don't talk about 373 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 3: it now, remember all the spacks that were happening. Sure, 374 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 3: I think you could, like you could probably spack this 375 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 3: couple of water back. It's pretty pretty pretty. 376 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 2: Easy to do. 377 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 3: We were never interested in that. We wanted to go 378 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 3: through the traditional IPO route. The bar Is hired. Now, 379 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 3: now you need to be over two hundred million, two 380 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 3: hundred and twenty five million in subscription revenue. You also 381 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 3: need to be cash flow positive at time of IPO 382 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 3: or certainly within four to six quarters. And so what 383 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 3: I would say is that we have our sites on 384 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 3: these numbers, they're very clear, they're within arm's reach. So 385 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 3: it's about timing the IPO window and thinking about when 386 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 3: is it best for the shareholders and the customers. 387 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 1: Right, So, you guys aren't I don't know if you 388 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: can talk about it, but it are you guys casually positive? 389 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 2: Now? 390 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, we're not cash fl positive. It's an interesting conversation. 391 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 3: It's something we could if we want to. 392 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 2: We're really well funded. 393 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 3: We have a significant amount of capital on the balance sheet, 394 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 3: and so what I look at it is to kind 395 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,199 Speaker 3: of put some some context around this. We're bigger than 396 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 3: our next five competitors combined. And that's whether you wanted 397 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 3: to measure it on carrier network size, or revenue or 398 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:54,880 Speaker 3: any number of ways that you want to measure, we're 399 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 3: significantly larger than them. We also have more capital than 400 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 3: all those five editors combined on the balance sheet. So 401 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 3: when I think about the use of capital, it's to 402 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 3: pay dividends to shareholders. Well, our shareholders aren't interested in that, 403 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 3: They're interested in consequential business being built, right, They're interested in, 404 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 3: of course, what else do you do with with capital? 405 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 3: You make acquisitions. We're still highly inquisitive. We certainly have 406 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 3: the capital to take down acquisitions that are interesting to us, 407 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 3: which and then also for innovation. So we're going to 408 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 3: continue to innovate. You know, we have these large companies 409 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 3: that rely on us to innovate, that want to digitalize 410 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,199 Speaker 3: their supply chain. There may be some uncertainties there in 411 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 3: the market, but having the dry powder that we have 412 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,479 Speaker 3: is competitive advantage over our competitors. So continue to innovate, 413 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 3: be efficient with the capital, shift away from a grow 414 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 3: at all costs to an efficient growth, but still heavily 415 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 3: invest in the in the product I mentioned, you know, 416 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 3: the size, giving an idea on R and D spend, 417 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 3: it's likely bigger than this year. We'll invest more than 418 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 3: all five our next competitors combined. So that innovation, I think, 419 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 3: just creates more separation from us as we're kind of 420 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 3: in this market that we are, and that's why I've 421 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,360 Speaker 3: chosen not to be cashflow positive. 422 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 1: When you talk about engineering, I'm assuming you're talking about 423 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: hiring engineers and programmers, and those are the most of 424 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: your employees at Project forty four. 425 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 3: We're about eight hundred and fifty team members at Project 426 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 3: forty four and about a little over three hundred or 427 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 3: what would call in the tech team. So that's your product, 428 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:33,680 Speaker 3: that's your design, product design, not marketing, design, your engineers. 429 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 2: That's what that head count is. 430 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,360 Speaker 3: So not quite fifty percent, but a very significant amount. 431 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: And you know, we talked briefly and mentioned briefly you 432 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: know AI. How does Project forty four leverage AI? And 433 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: you know, what are you guys doing in that field 434 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: because obviously it's a lot of interest in that right now. 435 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 3: Yes, so it's a clarifying point. We don't have a 436 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 3: proprietary AI that we're building. We're leveraging existing AI that 437 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 3: other folks built. And I think that we probably have 438 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 3: the largest logistics data set of any company in the world. 439 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 3: So there's four point two million unique shipments that go 440 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 3: through Project forty four day, so pretty huge, huge size. 441 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 3: There may be some companies out there that's say, you know, 442 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 3: maybe if there's comments that this podcasts. Oh, we have 443 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 3: seven million, but they have it in an asynchronous way. 444 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,919 Speaker 3: Ours is al synchronous or real time connectivity. That's happening, 445 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 3: so really large scale. So it's about how do we 446 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 3: apply that AI to impact customer use cases that adds 447 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 3: value to them. One way is is data that you 448 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 3: get from that primary source the carriers is often incomplete 449 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 3: for a number of reasons, or it's very complex. Carriers 450 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,919 Speaker 3: themselves have to rely on a lot of third parties 451 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 3: to help them. If you're talking about an ocean shipping line, 452 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 3: they have terminals and ports, and you have chassis providers, 453 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 3: you have drayage companies or pre carriage companies put in 454 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 3: what part of the world that you would call different 455 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 3: terminology and so being able to start to predict like 456 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,360 Speaker 3: when is last day free or when is that container 457 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,719 Speaker 3: actually going to be available? Point? All that information together 458 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 3: is a great use case for AI. 459 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: Right, And you know you mentioned the acquisitive nature of 460 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: Project forty four. You did a handful of deals recently. 461 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: What's the whole that you guys have that would really 462 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: add value to your customers, Like are you looking at 463 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: you know, getting deeper in a specific mode or region, 464 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: is there something else that you know that's beyond my 465 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: pay grade that I just don't have the division to 466 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: think about. 467 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're thinking about it the right way. 468 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 3: There's really three growth vectors for Project forty four. It's 469 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 3: expand modes, expand geographies, and then expand what part of 470 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 3: the logistics workflow that we're actually digitalizing. If you look 471 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 3: at geography, our products used in one hundred and eighty 472 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 3: six countries every day, so pretty good coverage there. When 473 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 3: you overlay those one hundred and eighty six countries to GDP, 474 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 3: the large majority of the world's GDP we could provide. 475 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 3: When you look at modal coverage, pretty good modal coverage. 476 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 3: We have barge, we have air freight forwarders, door to door, 477 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 3: port to port, Ocean International Ltl, Groupage, truckload parcel. We 478 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 3: have pretty much all the modes covered. If somebody had 479 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 3: a unique penetration, let's say in like India, Brazil or something, 480 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 3: I'd be interested in taking a look at that. Oftentimes 481 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 3: to get these are relatively large markets that I think 482 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,439 Speaker 3: will perform well on both short and long term horizons. 483 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 3: If there's an entrepreneur out there that's putting three four 484 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 3: or five seven years of blood, sweat and tears into 485 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 3: getting that market really going. That'd be something that I'm 486 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 3: interested in, So that'd be a geography expansion. If you're 487 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 3: looking at the third vector, which is part of the 488 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 3: logistics workflow, one of the things that we have a 489 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 3: Project forty four is it's very unique is that we 490 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 3: can offer companies a high velocity supply chain. So what 491 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 3: that means is that all the way upstream on the 492 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 3: logistics pre shipment, which is the rate quote and the tender, 493 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 3: the booking, we've automated parts of that for some modes 494 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 3: of transportation. Then you get into what i'd call the 495 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 3: middle section, which is shipment and shipment's visibility. We're definitely 496 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 3: the heavyweight champ on on visibility. We're continue to invest 497 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 3: in that. But and I explain what those growth factors 498 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 3: would be. Then you get post shipment, which is the documents, 499 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 3: the invoices. So those are the those are the three 500 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 3: parts of a logistics workflow. And I'd be interested in 501 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 3: acquiring a company that's on the pre shipment or post 502 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 3: shipment to accelerate value to customers. 503 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: Okay, you know you started companies, you're running a company 504 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 1: what's the biggest challenge you face in your role Project 505 00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: forty four. 506 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:00,040 Speaker 2: There are many. 507 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 3: Challenges that ever running the company. The business itself is 508 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 3: very very complex. It's unusual for a company to be 509 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 3: our size and be global, like we're truly truly global. 510 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 2: When you look at whether it's by. 511 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,360 Speaker 3: A customer headcount or a customer you look at employee headcount, 512 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 3: look at where the product's used. They're the value that's added. 513 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,400 Speaker 3: It's unusual for our size to be there. So that's 514 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 3: just it's atypical and it's quite quite difficult to manage. 515 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 3: I think talent is also something that's that's always top 516 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 3: of mind, you're always always looking at. That's not probably 517 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 3: a new topic for you and for any industry. But 518 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 3: we had a lot of really nice tailwinds at Project 519 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 3: forty four from all the disruptions that came from covid R, 520 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 3: and it started to put supply chain on the front 521 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 3: page of Bloomberg and other media outlets, and so that 522 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 3: started to gain the interest of a lot of great 523 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 3: top folks that maybe they were working on fintech products 524 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 3: before or travel whatever that then supply chain just never 525 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 3: really hit their radar. So we're seeing that a surge 526 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 3: of talent come in to the space, but the company 527 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 3: the space, these are very very difficult problems to solve, 528 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 3: and it's always very thirsty for the best talent in 529 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 3: the world. 530 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 2: This is what we do. 531 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 3: A Project forty four is like Teslas SpaceX hard, so 532 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 3: it takes some of the most talented people in the 533 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:22,360 Speaker 3: world to solve these problems. 534 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the pandemic definitely made a supply chain 535 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:30,919 Speaker 1: sexy again, right, Yeah, So when you're not running a 536 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: transportation slash, do you consider a project for a transportation 537 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: company or tech company? Do you what do you consider it? 538 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 3: It's definitely a tech company SaaS company. Minimum amount of 539 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 3: services that the company offers. I think it's less than 540 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 3: ten percent of the revenue. So yeah, definitely a tech 541 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 3: tech company. 542 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: Okay, so when you're not running a tech company, you know, 543 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: what do you like to do for fun? 544 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 2: Definitely? 545 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 3: So this has changed over the last couple of years, 546 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 3: but I have two kids, twenty six month old and 547 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,040 Speaker 3: a nine month old, so as much time as I 548 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,239 Speaker 3: can spend with them is definitely where my priorities are. 549 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 3: And you know, I took them skiing last weekend, so 550 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:08,640 Speaker 3: it's fun to kind. 551 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 2: Of weave in my hobbies with with with theirs. 552 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 3: Always downhill, mountain biking, still helicopter skiing or helly skiing 553 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 3: as it's referred to in my community. I'll go again 554 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 3: in April, but I think that might be coming to 555 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 3: an end soon. Yeah. 556 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 2: It's a long way away from home and fairly risky. 557 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 558 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 1: I took up skiing about seven years ago, and my 559 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: kids have surpassed my abilities. I'm slow and steady down 560 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: down the mountain and I'm not trying to shred the naar. 561 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: I guess that's what they say, right. 562 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 563 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: And you know, when in your kind of I guess 564 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,719 Speaker 1: journey of you know, working as a dispatcher to now 565 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: where you are today, were there any books that you 566 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: read about transportation or technology that you know really helped 567 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: you or you know you would recommend people to read 568 00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: for whatever reason. 569 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 3: Yes, so don't I don't have the traditional education that 570 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 3: probably a lot of people my my role do. If 571 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 3: you looked down LinkedIn and I didn't go to Stanford 572 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 3: or am I m I T And yeah that's what 573 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 3: a lot of the CEOs of SaaS companies have or 574 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 3: tech have have done. I did get a lot of 575 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 3: my education just from obsessing over reading books. That's how 576 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 3: I spent my Friday and Saturday nights when I was 577 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 3: in my twenties. So we're graveyard shift at the at 578 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 3: the carrier and then just read, read, read as much 579 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 3: as everything I could. Not all these books were available 580 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 3: way back then. But once it come to mind, as 581 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 3: you asked that that that question, uh for transtpatient, I 582 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 3: ever found anything incredibly interesting. The book The Box was, 583 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 3: which is the gentleman that created the container shipping box, 584 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 3: was really thoughtful and I think actually a lot of things, 585 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 3: some of his key points, and they've actually been proven 586 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 3: wrong over the last decade as we've seen this evolution 587 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 3: of digitalization, which is pretty cool to see. But if 588 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 3: we talk about tech, zero to one by Peter Teal 589 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 3: has got to be one of the best books out 590 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 3: there to read for anybody who's thinking about technology. And then, 591 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 3: of course back then when I was just trying to 592 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 3: I was in logistics and trying to become a better businessman. 593 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 2: The book that immediately. 594 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 3: Comes to mind is How to Win Friends and Influence People, 595 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 3: which is hopefully read by most people nowadays. Yeah, so 596 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 3: a lot of reading just trying to capture, capture knowledge. 597 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 2: Interesting. I don't read quite as much anymore. If I do, 598 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 2: it's for pleasure on vacation. Just finished up the book 599 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 2: The Wager, which is a great, great, great book. 600 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: All right, well, you won me over, so I guess 601 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: the reading that book, that book word well. I really 602 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: want to thank you for your time. I appreciate that 603 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: this is an interesting conversation, and I want to thank 604 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: you for tuning in. If you liked the episode, please 605 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: subscribe and leave a review. We've lined up a number 606 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: of great guests for the podcast. Check back to your 607 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: conversations with C suite executives, shippers, regulators, and decision makers 608 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: within the freight transportation markets. Also, if you have any 609 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 1: idea for future episodes, please hit me up on the 610 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 1: terminal or on Twitter at logistics Lee. Thanks everyone, be 611 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: safe out there.