1
00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:02,760
Speaker 1: Please note that in this episode there will be a

2
00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:08,000
Speaker 1: graphic description of an invasive procedure. Listen at your own discretion.

3
00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:14,960
Speaker 2: By a.

4
00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,920
Speaker 1: Large group of people is praying in Portuguese.

5
00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:21,720
Speaker 3: They're all dressed.

6
00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:23,720
Speaker 1: In white and seem to be in the main hall

7
00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:28,000
Speaker 1: of a social club or a community center. But this

8
00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:33,120
Speaker 1: isn't a normal spiritual gathering. An invasive medical procedure is

9
00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:41,640
Speaker 1: about to take place. This homemade video is focused on

10
00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,560
Speaker 1: a man who's standing on a small stage. He's also

11
00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,280
Speaker 1: dressed in white, with people huddled around him. He's in

12
00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:53,840
Speaker 1: his late sixties, with thinning brown hair and a stocky build.

13
00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,640
Speaker 1: There's a point where you can see his demeanor change.

14
00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:03,080
Speaker 1: His blue eyes row wide and his movements get slower.

15
00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,560
Speaker 1: He's no longer himself.

16
00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:10,720
Speaker 3: John, He tells the crowd.

17
00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:14,320
Speaker 1: He's now channeling the spirit of a well known doctor

18
00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:19,160
Speaker 1: who died in the nineteen forties. The man who I'll

19
00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,320
Speaker 1: call the doctor. At a certain point turns to three

20
00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,119
Speaker 1: people behind him on stage.

21
00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:26,360
Speaker 3: They're holding metal trays.

22
00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,800
Speaker 1: And seem to be his assistance. Right next to them,

23
00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,119
Speaker 1: there's this one guy who sticks out.

24
00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,520
Speaker 3: He's standing stiff as a board up against.

25
00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,800
Speaker 1: The back wall with his eyes closed tight, as if

26
00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:46,360
Speaker 1: he's bracing himself for something. The doctor reaches into one

27
00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,240
Speaker 1: of the trays with his bare hand and picks up

28
00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:50,320
Speaker 1: a long pair.

29
00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:51,480
Speaker 3: Of surgical scissors.

30
00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,720
Speaker 1: He uses them to grab a piece of gauze and

31
00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,160
Speaker 1: dips it in water. He then goes up to his patient,

32
00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,200
Speaker 1: the guy standing against the wall with his eyes closed.

33
00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,600
Speaker 1: What happens next is as bizarre as it is disturbing.

34
00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,160
Speaker 1: The doctor tells his patient to open his eyes and

35
00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,760
Speaker 1: tilts his head back with his hand. He then shoves

36
00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,760
Speaker 1: the scissors all the way up his patient's nose and

37
00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:24,519
Speaker 1: starts twisting them like he's unscrewing the top off a bottle, Twisting, twisting, twisting,

38
00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,959
Speaker 1: sliding the scissors deeper as he continues to twist. All

39
00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:33,200
Speaker 1: this time, the patient is grimacing, mouth wide open, but

40
00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:34,920
Speaker 1: he's not making a sound.

41
00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:38,840
Speaker 3: Then, all of a sudden.

42
00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,360
Speaker 1: The doctor pulls the scissors out of the patient's nose,

43
00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:47,600
Speaker 1: letting out a tiny stream of blood. The patient is

44
00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,880
Speaker 1: placed in a metal wheelchair, and as he's whisked away,

45
00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:59,800
Speaker 1: you see a smile spread across his face. The video

46
00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,320
Speaker 1: you just heard is from two thousand and nine, but

47
00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:06,760
Speaker 1: there are countless more online recorded over the span of decades.

48
00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:11,840
Speaker 1: They feature similar procedures, all performed by the same man,

49
00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:20,200
Speaker 1: the renowned spiritual healer Choau Dedos John of God.

50
00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,560
Speaker 4: A man who claims to work miracles and heal the sick.

51
00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:25,760
Speaker 5: He says he's a faith healer and people from all

52
00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:27,440
Speaker 5: over the world flocked to see him.

53
00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:34,160
Speaker 6: He had healed the wives of ministers, presidents and politicians,

54
00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,320
Speaker 6: and honors of big companies, and they.

55
00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,720
Speaker 1: Were Even Oprah has gone to see him.

56
00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,600
Speaker 3: Over the past four decades, John of God says he's

57
00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:44,120
Speaker 3: treated millions of people.

58
00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,080
Speaker 1: John of God claims to be a medium capable of

59
00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,960
Speaker 1: channeling spirits with tremendous powers, powers that can heal cancer

60
00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,920
Speaker 1: and help people walk again. The treatment he offers can

61
00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:00,440
Speaker 1: be invasive, like putting scissors up a patient's nose or

62
00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:04,280
Speaker 1: scraping their eye with a knife, but more often, the

63
00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:08,400
Speaker 1: spirits have him conduct invisible surgeries, which he can do

64
00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:12,560
Speaker 1: on many people at the same time without ever touching them.

65
00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:18,240
Speaker 1: This might sound crazy or very fringe, but I can

66
00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:23,880
Speaker 1: assure you it is not. Celebrities, Supreme Court judges, lawyers,

67
00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,920
Speaker 1: and doctors. Thousands of people have traveled to see John

68
00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:32,880
Speaker 1: of God at his quote spiritual hospital in southeast Brazil,

69
00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,960
Speaker 1: and not just from other parts of the country, but

70
00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:40,320
Speaker 1: from as far as Germany, Australia and the United States.

71
00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:46,000
Speaker 5: Desperate, that's what I was weighing, freaking eighty pounds with

72
00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:47,400
Speaker 5: a child to raise.

73
00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,320
Speaker 3: No doctor figured it out what was wrong with me?

74
00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:52,800
Speaker 3: Any dangeres YAKAMAI me.

75
00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,400
Speaker 2: Nobody told me they were going to cure my father.

76
00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:00,040
Speaker 2: No doctor, neurologists, neurosurgeon, no one say.

77
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:00,800
Speaker 5: They could kill him.

78
00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:01,839
Speaker 3: Get put on the plat.

79
00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,760
Speaker 4: We went to the hospital, We went to multiple doctors.

80
00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,240
Speaker 4: They couldn't figure out what was actually the problem.

81
00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:13,039
Speaker 1: I went there, you're playing with your belief because you

82
00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:14,080
Speaker 1: really want to live.

83
00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,880
Speaker 3: All you have is faith. Faith.

84
00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,720
Speaker 1: My name is Martina Castro. I've been an audio journalist

85
00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,680
Speaker 1: for twenty years, and while reporting this story, I've meditated

86
00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:32,400
Speaker 1: a lot on that word faith and on its power.

87
00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,840
Speaker 1: I'd say I'm a spiritual person. I'm both skeptical of

88
00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,280
Speaker 1: anything that sounds too good to be true and I

89
00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,200
Speaker 1: like to leave room for the unexplainable. If I were

90
00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,360
Speaker 1: desperate to heal myself or someone I love, I can

91
00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,239
Speaker 1: absolutely imagine myself getting on an airplane to the middle

92
00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:57,080
Speaker 1: of nowhere to find a miracle cure. But what this

93
00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,159
Speaker 1: story has gotten me to wonder is not about what

94
00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,320
Speaker 1: gets us to have faith in a given thing or

95
00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,560
Speaker 1: a given person, but how long are we willing to

96
00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:12,359
Speaker 1: hold and keep that faith even when we can feel

97
00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:14,680
Speaker 1: something is not right.

98
00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,719
Speaker 4: I simply thought that Juan's work was spiritual when I

99
00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,200
Speaker 4: first went there. I had no idea that there was

100
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:23,640
Speaker 4: a secret behind all of this.

101
00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,599
Speaker 1: Over the course of this series, you'll learn how John

102
00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,279
Speaker 1: of God became a celebrated healer at the center of

103
00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:37,760
Speaker 1: an international movement, all while behind the scenes, dark secrets

104
00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:41,720
Speaker 1: started to come out. Intimidation.

105
00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,359
Speaker 7: He would always say, what you think, they'll believe me

106
00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:48,400
Speaker 7: or you or he will.

107
00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:53,320
Speaker 1: See fraud, sexual abuse, and mysterious deaths.

108
00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:59,279
Speaker 8: It's very difficult and it's very also lonely. One small

109
00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,040
Speaker 8: person gainst God.

110
00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:06,000
Speaker 1: From Exactly Right Media and Adonde Media, this is two

111
00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:17,320
Speaker 1: faced John of God Episode one, The Last Hope O lad.

112
00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:21,120
Speaker 7: Oh Father.

113
00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,920
Speaker 1: This is me speaking broken Portuguese with a woman named Annaboula.

114
00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:32,840
Speaker 1: Despite our language barrier and spotty zoom connection, Annaboula immediately

115
00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:37,920
Speaker 1: came across as vivacious, warm and confident, she asked we

116
00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,440
Speaker 1: only use her first name to protect her family. An

117
00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,720
Speaker 1: Abaula ended up seeing John of God out of desperation,

118
00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,840
Speaker 1: but not for herself, for her father. Around two thousand

119
00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,960
Speaker 1: and six, Anaballa's father was diagnosed with late stage brain cancer.

120
00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,240
Speaker 1: After many surgeries, doctors said there was nothing else they

121
00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,120
Speaker 1: could do for him. He was in a wheelchair and

122
00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:05,560
Speaker 1: a lot of pain. He couldn't even swallow. So Anna

123
00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,840
Speaker 1: Paula turned to their faith as a last hope.

124
00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:10,480
Speaker 7: It was thank you for spiritA.

125
00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,520
Speaker 2: I've always been a spirituist my entire life. I was

126
00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,800
Speaker 2: born in a spiritist home, and I grew up with

127
00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,920
Speaker 2: relatives performing spiritual surgeries healing.

128
00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,760
Speaker 1: According to Annabaula's beliefs, spirits are non physical beings that

129
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:29,880
Speaker 1: can interact with us.

130
00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:30,760
Speaker 3: It just so.

131
00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,480
Speaker 1: Happens that Brazil is said to have the largest concentration

132
00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,760
Speaker 1: of spiritists in the world. And it was this spiritual

133
00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,959
Speaker 1: community that first introduced Anapaula to John of God.

134
00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,520
Speaker 2: People said very little about John of God, but always

135
00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,760
Speaker 2: with a lot of a lot of respect and the

136
00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:56,240
Speaker 2: certainty of a cure or some spiritual healing. So I

137
00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,560
Speaker 2: remember he had written some books and I bought them

138
00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:00,360
Speaker 2: from father.

139
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,200
Speaker 1: In one of those books, an Aballa's father read about

140
00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,560
Speaker 1: a man whom John of God cured, a man who

141
00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:08,520
Speaker 1: had brain cancer.

142
00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:14,040
Speaker 2: When my father read that, he said, I want to

143
00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:18,720
Speaker 2: be Joan of God's next miracle by jakabad All. My

144
00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,400
Speaker 2: father had just become a grandfather and he wanted to

145
00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,880
Speaker 2: see his grandson grow up. He formed Abaijan, and so

146
00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:27,040
Speaker 2: we went to a Badiana.

147
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,560
Speaker 1: Abadiana that's the small rural town in the middle of

148
00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,400
Speaker 1: Brazil where John of God founded what he calls his

149
00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:40,839
Speaker 1: spiritual Hospital. Abadiena has about seventeen thousand residents, and it's

150
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:42,240
Speaker 1: an hour and a half drive from.

151
00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:43,800
Speaker 3: The country's capital, Brasilia.

152
00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,320
Speaker 1: Many describe it as a town you drive through to

153
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,760
Speaker 1: get somewhere else. A major highway cuts it in half,

154
00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,560
Speaker 1: with most of the residents and local businesses on one

155
00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,880
Speaker 1: side and the spiritual hospital, or the Gasa on the other.

156
00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,280
Speaker 1: The GASA is short for Casa the Dominacio de Loyola,

157
00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:09,200
Speaker 1: or House of Saint Ignatius of Loyola. Anna Baula's inability

158
00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,080
Speaker 1: to heal her father through traditional medicine is what led

159
00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,480
Speaker 1: her to this place, along with thousands of.

160
00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:21,920
Speaker 4: Others, people in desperate situations. They were dying and they

161
00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,000
Speaker 4: had irrevocably fatal diseases.

162
00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,960
Speaker 1: Then there were people like Michael Baylot. He first visited

163
00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,200
Speaker 1: the GASA from the US because his girlfriend at the

164
00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,560
Speaker 1: time was very sick. Doctors were not able to help her,

165
00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,560
Speaker 1: so they traveled to Brazil to see healers that Michael

166
00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,000
Speaker 1: had read about, and they ended up at the CASA.

167
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,560
Speaker 1: That's when Michael felt like he witnessed something really incredible happening.

168
00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:44,840
Speaker 7: There.

169
00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,680
Speaker 1: He met people who said John of God cured their

170
00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,440
Speaker 1: cancer after treatment. Some people were able to walk again

171
00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,000
Speaker 1: after years of being in wheelchairs. Some people said their

172
00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:56,319
Speaker 1: tumors disappeared.

173
00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:59,959
Speaker 4: This is real. This guy's actually doing surgery and it's

174
00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:04,319
Speaker 4: a miracle. I never believe that miracles were real until

175
00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:04,760
Speaker 4: that point.

176
00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,760
Speaker 1: So Michael decides to stay and live in Abadianya.

177
00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,320
Speaker 4: When I arrived there, I had been going through about

178
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,400
Speaker 4: a five year period in my life where I was

179
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,839
Speaker 4: having a big spiritual awakening. So my frame of mind

180
00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,480
Speaker 4: when I arrived there was very positive and very open,

181
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:27,080
Speaker 4: and I was very altruistic also, so this situation looked like,

182
00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,160
Speaker 4: my God, this is there's nobody else in the world

183
00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:34,040
Speaker 4: that's ever done this, and I want to be a

184
00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:35,640
Speaker 4: part of it. I want to help people. Look at

185
00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:37,640
Speaker 4: all the people. He's helped millions of people, and he

186
00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,079
Speaker 4: did it for free, so it just sounded really enticing.

187
00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,120
Speaker 1: Soon after moving to Abadianya, Michael became a tour guide

188
00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,120
Speaker 1: to help other people from the US travel.

189
00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,600
Speaker 4: There many people that went there and said, I have

190
00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,400
Speaker 4: stage four cancer and it's Mostaticizing him in agony every

191
00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,240
Speaker 4: day helped me. I had several clients like that.

192
00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:02,720
Speaker 1: But then there was this other group of people.

193
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:04,959
Speaker 4: About a third of the people that came, or a

194
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:09,400
Speaker 4: quarter of them, they were just spiritual tourists. They'd heard

195
00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:11,880
Speaker 4: about this guy and they wanted to have an experience.

196
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:13,920
Speaker 4: So a lot of people would go there and just say,

197
00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:16,520
Speaker 4: can you help me on my spiritual path?

198
00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,280
Speaker 1: So in this middle of nowhere town, in the middle

199
00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,280
Speaker 1: of Brazil, you had these various groups of people coming together,

200
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,560
Speaker 1: people who were really sick and desperate for a cure,

201
00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,200
Speaker 1: volunteers and spiritual tourists who wanted to be part of

202
00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:36,520
Speaker 1: this experience, and tour guides like Michael, who were helping

203
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,800
Speaker 1: both of those groups travel to Abadiana and navigate the

204
00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,880
Speaker 1: culture the language and the town. They came together around

205
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,680
Speaker 1: John of God's mission to bring spiritual healing to thousands

206
00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:49,280
Speaker 1: of people from around the world.

207
00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:54,880
Speaker 4: I felt I was part of a very, a big,

208
00:12:54,960 --> 00:13:00,720
Speaker 4: miraculous event that was going to change the world.

209
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,880
Speaker 1: The experience at the Gasa takes place three days a week.

210
00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,800
Speaker 1: It begins when you set foot in the town, and

211
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,240
Speaker 1: Abaula says, from the moment you get there, it's impossible

212
00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:16,360
Speaker 1: not to get drawn in.

213
00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:18,000
Speaker 7: Oh clear, mylee.

214
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,640
Speaker 2: The vibe there was just a wonderful vibe. I used

215
00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,240
Speaker 2: to say that it was a little piece of heaven

216
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:24,800
Speaker 2: on the earth.

217
00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:32,679
Speaker 1: First of all, imagine that around seven am you start

218
00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:36,280
Speaker 1: to see tour buses arrive and hundreds of people start

219
00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,319
Speaker 1: to fill the streets, all walking toward the Gasa.

220
00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:45,880
Speaker 6: Everyone there was wearing white, so white pants, whatshirts, wat dresses,

221
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:46,880
Speaker 6: the whole town.

222
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,960
Speaker 1: That's Tim Elliott, a journalist from Australia. He went to

223
00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,000
Speaker 1: Abadiena in two thousand and four. He says, in addition

224
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,720
Speaker 1: to wearing white, you'd see some people walking barefoot. These

225
00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,040
Speaker 1: things were encouraged by John of God so that you

226
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,840
Speaker 1: could free up your energy to the spirits and to

227
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,679
Speaker 1: also absorb their healing more easily.

228
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,040
Speaker 6: And people are blissed out. Yeah, Like they're pretty they're

229
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,240
Speaker 6: pretty stoked to be they're pretty happy to be walking

230
00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:14,280
Speaker 6: around in his presence, you know, and about to see him.

231
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,280
Speaker 1: Tim admits he went to Abadianya feeling very skeptical about

232
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:19,960
Speaker 1: John of God.

233
00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,360
Speaker 6: So I thought it's going to be rubbish, right, But

234
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:27,320
Speaker 6: then when you get there and you have literally thousands

235
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,480
Speaker 6: of people in white milling around and everyone tells you

236
00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,240
Speaker 6: how they've been saved by this person. After a while,

237
00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,720
Speaker 6: I was like, well, can all these people be wrong?

238
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:42,480
Speaker 6: Like is it possible? Like maybe maybe they're right, maybe

239
00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,160
Speaker 6: they have been saved. And they're all like, I'll show

240
00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,680
Speaker 6: you my medical papers, I'll show you my x rays,

241
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:49,160
Speaker 6: all that sort of stuff.

242
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,480
Speaker 1: The first person Tim met at the GASA was actually

243
00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,040
Speaker 1: one of those people who claimed it to have been cured.

244
00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:58,920
Speaker 1: She was also from Australia.

245
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,200
Speaker 6: And she had gone there because who she had. I think.

246
00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:06,160
Speaker 6: She said she had some degenerated disease in her back

247
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:08,920
Speaker 6: and so she was finding it really hard to walk.

248
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,400
Speaker 6: And she swore to me that she, you know, she

249
00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:13,560
Speaker 6: was made better, and that she could throw her cane

250
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,640
Speaker 6: away and she basically regarded it as a miracle, what

251
00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,160
Speaker 6: had happened as a miracle, and said to me, oh,

252
00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,440
Speaker 6: he is pure love, you know. He he that's what

253
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,040
Speaker 6: he is. The power he radiates is like something from

254
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:28,680
Speaker 6: out of space. It's unbelievable.

255
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,080
Speaker 7: Eli representa pilar.

256
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,360
Speaker 9: He represented a pillar of a labor of love by

257
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,760
Speaker 9: hundreds of thousands of people in Jimidia.

258
00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:40,680
Speaker 7: Jupe Sauce.

259
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,160
Speaker 1: Marcellos Toduto first arrived at the Casa back in nineteen

260
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,560
Speaker 1: ninety eight, much like the woman Tim just described, to

261
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,200
Speaker 1: seek treatment for an illness. In Marcello's case, it was

262
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,480
Speaker 1: to treat his scoliosis, but Marcello had another reason. He

263
00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,080
Speaker 1: wanted to meet Juau, John of God. He was very

264
00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,720
Speaker 1: interested in houning him his own spiritual gifts. Marcelo ended

265
00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:04,760
Speaker 1: up staying at the Gasa to work side by side

266
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,200
Speaker 1: with Joau as a medium himself, and ended up being

267
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,960
Speaker 1: part of his community for almost two decades.

268
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:15,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, vioma siste macha sagarti.

269
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:15,560
Speaker 3: He says.

270
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,360
Speaker 1: The routine at the GASA on visiting days was pretty

271
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,680
Speaker 1: much the same over the years. People would congregate in

272
00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,600
Speaker 1: a big central hall that resembles an open air church.

273
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,280
Speaker 1: Where each person is given a number. Depending on whether

274
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,440
Speaker 1: your first timer coming for a follow up visit or

275
00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,720
Speaker 1: requesting a physical surgery like the scissors up the nose,

276
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,320
Speaker 1: you're called to a different line. The day starts with

277
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,400
Speaker 1: some announcements, then everyone recites a series of Christian prayers,

278
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:47,240
Speaker 1: sometimes in three or four different languages. Marcelo says, once

279
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,080
Speaker 1: people are told to line up, there are three main

280
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,440
Speaker 1: rooms where the treatment takes place.

281
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,440
Speaker 5: A primeda sala. So the first room was the large

282
00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,920
Speaker 5: center room in Tokxicador. There was where with the talk

283
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,720
Speaker 5: to find the pain and dancer energies that everyone brought

284
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:04,520
Speaker 5: to that space.

285
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,240
Speaker 1: In this first room, everyone sits and prays or meditates.

286
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,159
Speaker 1: Mediums are also sitting in this room meditating, mixed in

287
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,240
Speaker 1: with people who are waiting to see John of God.

288
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,439
Speaker 1: The goal is to clean everyone's energies so that by

289
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,320
Speaker 1: the time people see Joao it will be easier for

290
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,320
Speaker 1: him to diagnose and treat them.

291
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,080
Speaker 7: In Talla ra komosi FOSSi.

292
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,919
Speaker 5: So it was if we were going to compare it

293
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,560
Speaker 5: with a cart.

294
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,800
Speaker 9: The idea was like a car. Was the person goes

295
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,000
Speaker 9: through the first room and receives a heavier cleaning.

296
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,840
Speaker 1: The music and noises you hear in the background are

297
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,520
Speaker 1: from a homemade video that was filmed in the second

298
00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,800
Speaker 1: room at the Casa. This is where you actually line

299
00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,320
Speaker 1: up to see John of God. Tim Elliott, the journalist,

300
00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:58,879
Speaker 1: stood in that line.

301
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,960
Speaker 6: There's a massive queue, like I'm talking, a huge queue

302
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,000
Speaker 6: that sort of snakes around the whole compound, leads into

303
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:11,400
Speaker 6: this private room that he has he sometimes occupies, and

304
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,679
Speaker 6: you walk along, you shuffle along. He sits at the

305
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:20,960
Speaker 6: head of this room, surrounded by crystals and followers who

306
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,680
Speaker 6: sort of usher people toward him as you're walking there.

307
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,800
Speaker 1: All the while, hundreds of people are sitting on either

308
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:30,960
Speaker 1: side of you meditating.

309
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,440
Speaker 6: And they're meant to be sort of harnessing this huge

310
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:39,480
Speaker 6: spiritual energy that it's kind of like spiritual base load

311
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:43,119
Speaker 6: power that you know, Ja'o can then tap into to

312
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,560
Speaker 6: perform these incredible, you know, these miraculous deeds that he

313
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,040
Speaker 6: pulls off. So you walk through this room and you

314
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,280
Speaker 6: can feel you can feel, you know, if you have

315
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:53,800
Speaker 6: hundreds of people meditating in one room, there is an

316
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,360
Speaker 6: energy that comes out of that. There's no doubt about that.

317
00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:01,080
Speaker 6: So by the time you meet him, acceptible and primed

318
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,040
Speaker 6: for something, to believe that someone has power. Right.

319
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,240
Speaker 2: Sometimes I would walk in that chain of prayers on

320
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,919
Speaker 2: that line, and it seemed like I was just in

321
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:17,280
Speaker 2: the scene. Do you know when you're walking through calm

322
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,360
Speaker 2: waves in the scene, I felt like I was walking

323
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,920
Speaker 2: in the middle of the waves. It was a very

324
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:25,639
Speaker 2: good thing. It was a very good feeling.

325
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:27,840
Speaker 3: It was peace, had all my.

326
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:34,679
Speaker 2: Delicious aramas, fresh air, very pleasant music and meditation music

327
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:40,119
Speaker 2: like calm religious music. So it was like it really

328
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 2: was a little piece of heaven.

329
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:43,360
Speaker 4: The cell.

330
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,040
Speaker 1: And all of this is happening before you've even talked

331
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,680
Speaker 1: to John of God. It's designed to be this way because,

332
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,880
Speaker 1: according to John of God and other spiritist leaders, your

333
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,840
Speaker 1: illness is essentially a manifestation of problems with your energy.

334
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,240
Speaker 1: So as a medium, Marcello says he doesn't treat the illness,

335
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,960
Speaker 1: he treats what causes the illness.

336
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:10,320
Speaker 9: Four que nontra biog Because in a healing work, when

337
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 9: it's in fact a spiritual healing work, the idea is

338
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,280
Speaker 9: not to make people get cured of all their physical ills.

339
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,800
Speaker 9: The idea is to make people come out profoundly more

340
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 9: aware of themselves, more spiritualized, and transformed in their way

341
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:31,719
Speaker 9: of being, feeling, enacting with each other. And this activates

342
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:36,760
Speaker 9: the mechanisms of the person's immune, physical, and spiritual system

343
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,240
Speaker 9: to see the healing process and perhaps eliminate physical illness.

344
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,560
Speaker 7: Belinda physic.

345
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,479
Speaker 1: It can take hours to get through the line that

346
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,439
Speaker 1: Tim and Anambaula and all the first time visitors have

347
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,960
Speaker 1: to stand in before they get their moment with John

348
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 1: of God. But Tim says, you can see him while

349
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:01,399
Speaker 1: you're waiting.

350
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,119
Speaker 6: He didn't say a lot. He was a big guy physically,

351
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 6: a big guy, so he had a presence.

352
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,399
Speaker 1: Finally Tim got to the front of the line and

353
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,119
Speaker 1: it was his turn to meet Joao for the first time.

354
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,400
Speaker 6: So I got to the head of the room and

355
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 6: I think I took his hand briefly, and his eyes

356
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,920
Speaker 6: rolled back into his head and his hand fluttered.

357
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,359
Speaker 1: So at this point, John of God is channeling a

358
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,719
Speaker 1: spirit or entity as they're also called as a medium.

359
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 1: His gift is to be able to embody these spirits

360
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:44,479
Speaker 1: that diagnose and treat people through him. So technically, in

361
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 1: that moment, he isn't himself, he is the entity.

362
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 6: And then you're usher on your way and right literally

363
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 6: you made him for it would have been I don't know,

364
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:57,639
Speaker 6: ten seconds max.

365
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,919
Speaker 1: So in those ten thirty seconds, he might send you

366
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 1: to meditate or to take a bath in a waterfall

367
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 1: they had on the property. He might send you to

368
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 1: the third room. That's where John of God conducts invisible

369
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 1: surgeries on a large group of people at the same time,

370
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 1: without ever touching them. If you wanted a physical surgery,

371
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 1: you had to request one when you arrived, and they

372
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 1: happened in the middle of the day. But more commonly,

373
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 1: John of God would scribble down a prescription for you

374
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 1: on a piece of paper, telling you how many bottles

375
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,200
Speaker 1: of blessed water or passion flower herbs to buy at

376
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 1: a shop on the property. All the pills were the same,

377
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 1: but they were said to be blessed by the spirits

378
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 1: to treat your specific problem. And that's how it goes

379
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:50,200
Speaker 1: person after person. But when Annabaula meets John of God

380
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: for the first time, it goes a little differently.

381
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 2: To die into imagine that we would pass by the

382
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 2: entity and the medium would give me crystals, give me

383
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,439
Speaker 2: ken those, give me presents and roses.

384
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 1: Again, when Annapaulla says the entity she's referring to John

385
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,880
Speaker 1: of God when he's in a trance. When she calls

386
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 1: him the medium, that's when he's himself and not channeling

387
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: a spirit. She thinks that she and her father were

388
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 1: treated differently from the moment they arrived in Abadianya. Because

389
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 1: her father was a well known and respected lawyer, she

390
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 1: could tell people were going above and beyond to make

391
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 1: them feel comfortable. An Abaula and her father saw John

392
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 1: of God many times that year, and her father actually

393
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 1: started to get better. He was able to swallow again,

394
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 1: and with the help of physical therapists, he even started

395
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 1: taking a few steps after being confined for many months

396
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 1: to a wheelchair. So she and her father decided to

397
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 1: move to Abadianya full time for a few months.

398
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 2: No, several times I visited John of God and he

399
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 2: would congratulate me on my father. He would ask me

400
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 2: to go to his office, and I'll always go either

401
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 2: with my father's assistant or with my father, But I

402
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 2: never went alone.

403
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 1: Until one day Annapolla ended up at the casa by herself.

404
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 1: She sat down in the meditation room as usual to pray,

405
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 1: and she took off her shoes as recommended by the

406
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 1: community there.

407
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 2: So I was there barefoot, with my feet on the ground,

408
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 2: feeling all that energy, the energy of the place, with

409
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 2: my eyes closed, and I felt a hand on my shoulder.

410
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,160
Speaker 2: When I opened my eyes, it was John of God,

411
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 2: and he called me to come to his office. I've

412
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 2: been to his office several times, never alone. He would

413
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 2: even close the door, but this time I went alone,

414
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 2: and as soon as I entered, not only he closed it,

415
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 2: but he locked it.

416
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 3: With a key. Nathan Molt.

417
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 2: At that moment, I felt bad. He said that he

418
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 2: was going to do healing work for my father.

419
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: An Abaula felt uncomfortable. Something was not right, but she

420
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 1: also wanted to believe what he told her, that this

421
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: was a special spiritual treatment to heal her father. So

422
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: she did as she was told. But what would happen

423
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: in that room that day was far from the kind

424
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: of spiritual experience she had hoped for.

425
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 2: Not mad, no doctor, neurologist, neurosurgeon, no one said they

426
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: could cure my father. But he said, I'm going to

427
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 2: cure your father.

428
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 3: You don't get it.

429
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 2: This is a healing treatment and it's your energy. Yes,

430
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 2: and you represent your father, and I believed it.

431
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: How did this happen? How did you gain an almost

432
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: blind trust from his followers. In the next episode, we

433
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: learned how Joel they shared the Faiah, became Joel de

434
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: Dell's John of God, this almost mythical leader of extreme

435
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: power and influence.

436
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 7: It is simply demonst true.

437
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 9: He has always been very pleased to be the greatest

438
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 9: healing in the world.

439
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 7: Least i espress vida.

440
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 9: Vanity is expressed there.

441
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 8: So very quickly they learned that they had to protect

442
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 8: him and protect the possibility of him to cure people,

443
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 8: you know, to run the business. It's a business, and

444
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 8: everyone around him knew that they were part of the business.

445
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 2: And then there was a moment that was the crowning

446
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 2: of the expansion of the movement.

447
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,360
Speaker 7: Of course, when Oprah Winfrey went.

448
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 1: To Two Faced John of God on the iHeartRadio app,

449
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever.

450
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 3: You get your podcasts.

451
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 1: There you can also find this show en Espanol just

452
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: look for dos Garas Juan de Dios. Two Faced John

453
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 1: of God is a production of Exactly Right Media and

454
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: Adonde Media, hosted and written by myself Martina Castro. Our

455
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 1: senior producer is Mariano Baschela, reporting and fact checking by

456
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 1: Iluisa Trajano. Production assistance and research by Giovanna Romano Sanchez,

457
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: sound designed by Mauricio Mendoza and our mastering engineer is

458
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 1: Martine Grus. Original music was composed by Mariana Romano. The

459
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: artwork is by Vanessa Lilac. Anna Paula was interpreted by

460
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: Giovanna Romano Sanchez and Luciano Miranda by Andres Gavacherro for.

461
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 3: Exactly Right Media.

462
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: The executive producers are Karen Kilgariff, Georgia hard Stark and

463
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 1: Danielle Kramer, with consulting producer Lilli Ladowig and associate producer

464
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: Jay Elias. A special thank you to Michael Baylott for

465
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: giving us permission to use audio from his recordings at

466
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 1: the GASA. He recently published a book about his time there,

467
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 1: called Cult of John The Secret Life of Joual Deduce