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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet as a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and

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Speaker 1: this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. Joey.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show. I've missed you. It's been

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Speaker 1: a minute.

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Speaker 2: Hey Bridget, it has missed you too.

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Speaker 1: How have thinks been in Joey Land? What's new? What's up?

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Speaker 1: How have you been?

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Speaker 2: Things have been good.

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Speaker 3: I actually had a new show launch that I worked.

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Speaker 2: On through iHeart let's call it Afterlives.

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Speaker 3: The first episode is of now if people want to

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Speaker 3: check that out, would much appreciate it might be having

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Speaker 3: a bit of a crossover with There Are No Girls

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Speaker 3: on the Internet the next couple of weeks. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's been a you know, been a busy couple of

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Speaker 3: weeks with that.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited. I think that it's going to be

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Speaker 1: It's like one of the most anticipated podcasts for a while,

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Speaker 1: so people should definitely check it out. You'll hear more

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Speaker 1: here about this soon, but definitely check it out. I'm

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Speaker 1: really excited about it. And that's a great segue into

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Speaker 1: talking about some of the news that folks might have

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Speaker 1: missed on the Internet this week. We actually got a

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Speaker 1: little bit of good news that will actually be a

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Speaker 1: really good thing for survivors of domestic violence and their children.

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Speaker 1: That's the passage of the Safe Connections Act. This will

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Speaker 1: require telecommunications companies to adopt programs for people dealing with

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Speaker 1: the horrors of domestic violence and other similar crimes, including

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Speaker 1: removals from family billing plans within two business days upon request,

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Speaker 1: low cost emergency phone replacements for domestic violence victims, and

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Speaker 1: cloaking of call and text logs to domestic violence hotlines

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Speaker 1: and shelters. Domestic violence organizations are really cheering this new legislation,

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Speaker 1: and I think it really goes to show how big

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Speaker 1: of a role technology can play in domestic violence and

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Speaker 1: what a role it has to play in helping get

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Speaker 1: people who are experiencing that into safer situations. Jessica Rosenwarsol,

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Speaker 1: who became the first woman to lead the FCC back

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one, told NBC News when I took

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Speaker 1: over the Federal Communications Commission, these are not the things

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Speaker 1: I thought I would be doing. But if you're trying

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Speaker 1: to separate from someone who's abusing you, one of the

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Speaker 1: things that you want to do is securely get out

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Speaker 1: that family plan and set up your own communications. Now,

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Speaker 1: this is actually kind of a common thing. According to

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Speaker 1: the National Domestic Violence Hotline, financial abuse exists in ninety

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Speaker 1: eight percent of relationships where there is domestic violence. And

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Speaker 1: so if you are on a shared phone plan with

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Speaker 1: somebody and they have access to how and when you

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Speaker 1: use your cell phone because they are financially abusing you

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Speaker 1: as well as physically abusing you, that would be a

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Speaker 1: real barrier to you getting to safety. The National Domestic

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Speaker 1: Violence Hotline CEO Katie Ray Jones said that cell phones

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Speaker 1: are a frequently used tool of control and manipulation in

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Speaker 1: relationships where there is domestic violence, and so again this

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Speaker 1: is something that will really lower a barrier to folks

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Speaker 1: getting safety and getting help that they need. Public Knowledge,

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Speaker 1: a nonprofit that promotes freedom of expression and open Internet

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Speaker 1: and access to affordable communications tools, said implementing the Safe

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Speaker 1: Connections Act enables safe and secure line separation processes, allows

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Speaker 1: for safer access to critical support resources by omitting calls

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Speaker 1: to sensitive phone numbers from consumer facing call records, improves

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Speaker 1: protection against disconnection, and provides financial support through the Lifeline

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Speaker 1: program to ensure that survivors can remain connected. So they

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Speaker 1: mentioned the Lifeline program. The FCC manages the Lifeline program

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Speaker 1: and partnership with self service providers for survivors who are

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Speaker 1: low income. The program offers free or reduced price phones

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Speaker 1: and data plans and minutes for eligible low income individuals.

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Speaker 1: So one thing to know about this, even though I

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Speaker 1: do think it's a good step in the right direction

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Speaker 1: and I'm celebrating this for sure, but one thing to

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Speaker 1: know is that it really depends on what state you're in.

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Speaker 1: Per Public Knowledge, these rules only allow for survivors to

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Speaker 1: self certify their status as the survivor of domestic violence

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Speaker 1: to service providers explicitly allowed by a state. Public Knowledge

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Speaker 1: is calling upon every state to follow the example set

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Speaker 1: by New York and stand with the survivors of domestic

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Speaker 1: violence by acting to swiftly enable self certification.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's really great to hear, honestly, Like I I

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Speaker 3: feel like, at least for me, like thinking about cell

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Speaker 3: phones and cell phone usage and just one of those things,

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Speaker 3: it's like a little bit of a blind spot for

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Speaker 3: me sometimes, like it is something that is so ingrained

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Speaker 3: into everything that we do and to how we communicate

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Speaker 3: with people, and it's like, I don't know. I like,

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Speaker 3: I don't I don't think about my own phone plan

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Speaker 3: that much. Like I'll be honest, like I'm still on

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Speaker 3: my family's plan, and like I'm lucky where I have,

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Speaker 3: like you know, a good situation with my family where

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Speaker 3: I can stay on their phone plan.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, it is such a it's so.

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Speaker 3: Important to how we communicate and how we kind of

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Speaker 3: find safety, and it's yeah, it's really great to hear

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Speaker 3: that there's at least seems to be the start of.

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Speaker 2: Some sort of structure in place for survivors.

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Speaker 1: Definitely, And to your point about not always thinking about

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Speaker 1: your cell phone. Do you remember last month when they

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Speaker 1: did that test of the National Emergency Alert System where

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Speaker 1: all the phones made a noise at the same time,

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Speaker 1: they actually have to put out statements that were like, listen,

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Speaker 1: if you're in a situation where you have a secret

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Speaker 1: cell phone for your own safety, because you're being abused

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Speaker 1: or you're not in a safe situation, be sure to

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Speaker 1: turn that phone off because that phone is going to

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Speaker 1: emit a loud noise at this time in October, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: just be aware. Like, yeah, I think it can be

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Speaker 1: I agree that it can be difficult to remember cell

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Speaker 1: phones and that folks in situations where they're not safe

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Speaker 1: for them. It is a critical lifeline, and I think

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Speaker 1: it's just so important that we really have robust programs

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Speaker 1: that take into effect the role that technology like cell

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Speaker 1: phones really can play and survivors get into safety. We

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Speaker 1: need to continue to fund those programs. We need to

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Speaker 1: make sure they're as robust as they can be because

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Speaker 1: people need them, their lives depend on it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and I yeah, I remember that like a

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Speaker 3: month ago, and yeah, I'll be honest, like I didn't

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Speaker 3: even think about it until afterwards. I was I figure,

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Speaker 3: I saw something like on Twitter talking about it, and

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Speaker 3: I don't know if you saw bridget, but there was

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Speaker 3: like I remember some headline that was going around that

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Speaker 3: was about like Amish communities and like people's phones going

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Speaker 3: off and Amish communities and like getting outed for having phones.

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Speaker 3: But it was like it was so weird because that

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Speaker 3: was going around is like like almost its kind of

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Speaker 3: like a meme. And then at the same time, it

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Speaker 3: was like yeado, there were people that were like actively

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Speaker 3: put in danger because of something that seemed so routine

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Speaker 3: and normal to so many of us, like, yeah, no,

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Speaker 3: that's it's good to hear some good news for once, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I always.

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Speaker 1: News and sometimes the tech news can be so grim.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I always say this on the show,

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Speaker 1: We've got to take our double's where we can get them.

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Speaker 1: I am a big believer in like celebrating when what

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Speaker 1: it feels like some progress has been made to that point.

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Speaker 1: We have rolled out some new rules around AI. So

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Speaker 1: YouTube just rolled out some new rules around ai I

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Speaker 1: rated content on the platform and a blog. YouTube said

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Speaker 1: that creators that don't disclose whether they've used AI tools

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Speaker 1: to make altered or synthetic videos will face penalties, including

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Speaker 1: having their content removed or suspension from the platform's revenue

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Speaker 1: sharing program. Two spokespeople from YouTube said this is especially

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Speaker 1: important in cases where the content discussed a sensitive topics

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Speaker 1: such as elections, ongoing conflicts, and public health crises or

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Speaker 1: public officials. So, yeah, that sounds great, But I will

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Speaker 1: add that these are the same people who pretty recently,

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Speaker 1: just back in June said that election denialism is aokay

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Speaker 1: on their platform. You know, they announced that they were

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Speaker 1: going to stop taking down content that claims the twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty election was stolen or rigged back in June. So

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Speaker 1: I guess, girl, I guess that's it. That's what y'all

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Speaker 1: are saying, Like fine, And I guess it's one of

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Speaker 1: those things where it's like it is hard for me

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Speaker 1: to take them seriously at their word when Yeah, on

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Speaker 1: one hand, they're saying election nihilism is okay on the platform,

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Speaker 1: but they're also when it comes to AI, saying like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: it's important that you disclose that you've used AI when

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Speaker 1: you're talking about something sensitive like an election or a

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Speaker 1: public official, which one isn't right, Like, it seems like

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Speaker 1: those are two different, two different lanes you're in. But whatever.

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Speaker 1: So last week, Facebook also announced a new rule stipulating

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Speaker 1: that political campaigns advertising on Facebook would have to disclose

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Speaker 1: when they used AI in political or social issue ads

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Speaker 1: to synthetically depict people or events.

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Speaker 3: That seems concerning that they're letting. I mean, I guess

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Speaker 3: it's hard to just be like you can't do that

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Speaker 3: at all.

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Speaker 2: But I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I personally don't think that if you're running for office

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Speaker 3: you should be using like AI content at all. Like,

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Speaker 3: if you can't get real people who talk for you,

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Speaker 3: maybe you should not be running for office.

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Speaker 1: I would agree, Joey. I completely agree. I mean, like,

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Speaker 1: and this is not even like a It's not like

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Speaker 1: we're talking about like a far away reality. A pro

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Speaker 1: Ron deasantis pack already used an AI generated version of

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Speaker 1: Trump's voice in a campaign ad. So yeah, it's it's

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Speaker 1: I agree. I think that if I were making the rules,

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Speaker 1: I would say that no campaign should be able to

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Speaker 1: use AI generated deep fakes or voice deep fakes. The

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Speaker 1: Facebook rule does include carveouts for if the AI is

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Speaker 1: used for like a small cosmetic thing, right, like you've

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Speaker 1: used AI to clean up a photo or to crop

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Speaker 1: a photo a certain way. They do allow carve outs

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Speaker 1: for that. But I agree with you. I think that

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Speaker 1: like allowing that, I don't know how, I don't think

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Speaker 1: that's great. And I think that it really signals like

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Speaker 1: where we're at on the issue of AI as it

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Speaker 1: pertains to election misinformation. A recent report from the Center

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Speaker 1: for Technology Innovation found that we're really not prepared for

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Speaker 1: the wave of disinformation and misinformation that is AI generated.

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Speaker 1: Darrell West, a senior fellow at the same Technology Innovation,

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Speaker 1: said there's going to be a tsunami disinformation in the

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Speaker 1: upcoming election. Basically, anybody can use AI to create fake

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Speaker 1: videos and audio tapes, and it's going to be almost

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Speaker 1: impossible to distinguish the real from the fake. So it's

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Speaker 1: scary and it's real and it's happening, and we do

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Speaker 1: a lot of talking and handering, and I will say

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Speaker 1: that like we have. I am hopeful and believe that

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Speaker 1: we have started to have conversations about it. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think from where we were in conversations about AI today,

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Speaker 1: back from like a couple of months ago, I think

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Speaker 1: that gone are the conversations that are like just all hype,

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Speaker 1: like this is going to be so great, people are

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Speaker 1: going to make so much money, Like this is going

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Speaker 1: to be so exciting, it's going to change everything. I

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Speaker 1: think that we're I think that we are maybe done

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Speaker 1: with that hype cycle that just posits that AI is

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Speaker 1: this new, shiny piece of digital magic that we all

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Speaker 1: should be really excited about, like a parlor trick. I

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Speaker 1: think now we're in the part of the conversation where

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Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, well, how do we really need to

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Speaker 1: be thinking about this in real world application? How is

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Speaker 1: this actually going to impact us? So I am hopeful

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Speaker 1: that the conversation has really turned to a place where

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Speaker 1: people are concerned and want to start getting some guardrails

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Speaker 1: in place before it's too late.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, I know you're You're totally right, though I

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Speaker 3: feel like I haven't all of the kind of various

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Speaker 3: news cycle things that have come out about II, like

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Speaker 3: in the past month, Like none of it's been positive.

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Speaker 3: I don't think I've heard a single like positive AI story.

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Speaker 2: Something I remember.

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Speaker 3: I know there was a Sury listener that was about

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Speaker 3: like the issue of ownership of content and you know,

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Speaker 3: the fact that a lot of these AI technology they're

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Speaker 3: out now, they're relying on training models that are just

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Speaker 3: sort of indiscriminately taking content from the Internet, and you know,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of questions about copyright and who owns,

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Speaker 3: you know, intellectual property all of that. And it was

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Speaker 3: basically saying like if AI companies have to start like

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Speaker 3: paying for this stuff, if they need to start actually

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Speaker 3: having regulations in place, like they're not going to profit

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Speaker 3: from it, which is like something that seems super.

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Speaker 2: Obvious, like you can't just steal stuff.

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Speaker 3: You actually like you're not gonna make money if you're

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Speaker 3: I don't know, like, yeah, if your entire model is

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Speaker 3: being able to like steal everything and then you're making

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Speaker 3: money off of it.

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Speaker 2: No shit, you're gonna make a ton of money.

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Speaker 3: And then if you were suddenly taking away the ability

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Speaker 3: to steal things, you're not gonna make as much money.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, no, I think I want to feel positive

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Speaker 2: about this.

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Speaker 3: I do think that people like the reception of AI

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Speaker 3: and the limits of AI too, and what it can

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Speaker 3: be used for is starting to change.

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Speaker 2: And it's like good to see that.

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Speaker 3: We'll see if there's actually any sort of like consequequences

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Speaker 3: I guess to these companies that comes out of this,

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Speaker 3: because again, like it does concern me that they're saying,

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Speaker 3: like you just have to label that it's using AI,

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Speaker 3: and it's still sort of allowing these campaigns to use AI,

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Speaker 3: and like you, oh, they will if they if it's

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Speaker 3: something that they think is going to help them, they're

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Speaker 3: going to use it. And like you said that Desanta's

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Speaker 3: campaign already has. There have been a couple notable incidents

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Speaker 3: within the past month of certain groups or people using

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Speaker 3: AI generated images to try to, you know, construct an

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Speaker 3: image of something happening that is not accurate or is

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Speaker 3: not you know, entirely actual. We've already seen that happen.

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Speaker 3: Every time it's happened, they've gotten called out for it.

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Speaker 3: But at the same time, it keeps happening, and it

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Speaker 3: definitely impacts how people see reality.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it's still concerned.

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Speaker 3: I'm still definitely concerned, But I guess like it's good

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Speaker 3: to see that, like, you know, people speaking out about this,

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Speaker 3: and people fighting back and people trying to just sort

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Speaker 3: of like perserve the ability to speak the truth in

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Speaker 3: these sort of situations is at least going somewhere at

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Speaker 3: least there seems to be some response to that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you bring up another good point of It's

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Speaker 1: interesting to me how platforms like Facebook, YouTube, Google, they

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Speaker 1: are like, oh, like, we'll just label it, Like I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I think that now is a time for

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Speaker 1: platforms to really like this should be in my book,

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Speaker 1: that should be a come to Jesus moment where platforms

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Speaker 1: are like, no, but really, how can we really keep

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Speaker 1: this tsunami of misinformation at bay? I think that if

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Speaker 1: platforms are allowed to be the only forces setting the agenda,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how far we'll ever go. Right, It's

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Speaker 1: clear to me that we need some combination of platforms,

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Speaker 1: but then also government, right, like, because platforms are never

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Speaker 1: going to swing big if they're grading their own homework essentially,

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Speaker 1: and so yeah, I think now is the time for

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Speaker 1: platforms to really make responsible policies. I am not always

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Speaker 1: very op a mystic when we are when like the

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Speaker 1: only thing standing between us and like a tsunami of

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Speaker 1: misinformation is like whether or not Mark Zuckerberg is going

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Speaker 1: to do the right thing, or whether or not Elon

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Speaker 1: Musk is going to do the right thing or the

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Speaker 1: smart thing or whatever.

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Speaker 3: But I don't think that Mark Zuckerberg cares about the

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Speaker 3: integrity of.

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Speaker 2: I whatever.

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Speaker 1: In no. I like, it's so funny. This came up

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Speaker 1: in a conversation they had the other day about platforms

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Speaker 1: that I think are just like garbage. I don't think

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Speaker 1: that Facebook is like redeemable. I think that like they're

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Speaker 1: at like Google, you know, I have my issues with Google,

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Speaker 1: but they do provide Services' is like, oh, it's the

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Speaker 1: most used search engine in the world. I get it,

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Speaker 1: Like they're they're actually doing things. Facebook, I would argue,

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Speaker 1: doesn't actually produce a product that like actually makes anybody's

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Speaker 1: lives meaningfully better. They only produce like chaos and darkness.

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Speaker 1: At the very best you're gonna get is like an

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Speaker 1: update from some girl you went to high school with

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Speaker 1: or something like. They're not like they're not providing a

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Speaker 1: good service. So like, yeah, I increasingly think that Facebook,

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Speaker 1: if they truly wanted to do their part to create

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Speaker 1: a more robust digital landscape, they would shut down.

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Speaker 2: Totally agree.

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Speaker 3: I do think it is really interesting that there was

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Speaker 3: a while where Facebook Mark Zuckerberg was able to convince

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Speaker 3: us that Facebook was this like super vital platform and

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Speaker 3: I mean whatever, there's a larger conversation about social media

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Speaker 3: and like the role of social media has played in

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Speaker 3: the past cup like two decades. But yeah, like Facebook,

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I've seen the social network. I know Facebook

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Speaker 3: started as a way for Mark Zuckerberg to like meet girls,

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Speaker 3: like I don't.

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Speaker 2: Yes, there was no day.

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Speaker 3: With There's no way that was going to end up

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Speaker 3: as like that was going to end well for humanity,

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Speaker 3: And unfortunately we're seeing the extreme burg about how you

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Speaker 3: know that's kind of played out. But it's like it

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Speaker 3: never started as this thing that was meant to.

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Speaker 2: Be like for the good of humanity.

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Speaker 3: And it's so clear now that it's only caused chaos.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, and I agree. I think I am pro

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Speaker 3: Facebook shutting down. I you know, I will say, I

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Speaker 3: do still have an account up there somewhere. I do

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Speaker 3: not remember the last time I've opened it. It just

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Speaker 3: doesn't have a purpose anymore other than just like creating chaos.

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Speaker 1: The thing that you said about the social network, this

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Speaker 1: is like a personal pet peeve of mine. A couple

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Speaker 1: of years ago, Mark Zuckerberg, I don't remember where he

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Speaker 1: said this, but he was like, back when I created Facebook,

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Speaker 1: it was during the invasion of Iraq, and I really

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Speaker 1: wanted there to be a platform where people could engage

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Speaker 1: and robust debate about the issues. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: shut the fuck up, no, you fucking liar. Like we

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Speaker 1: all saw the social network. We all know that Facebook

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Speaker 1: started as a platform called facematch. It was all about rating.

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Speaker 1: The quote dogs in his dorm that it's his word.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: It was founded on toxicity and misogyny. And I just

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Speaker 1: I thought it was really funny how he people really

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Speaker 1: do think they're above reproach, that he thought that he

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Speaker 1: was going to be able to completely rewrite history, as

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Speaker 1: if he like could men in black flashy thing us

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Speaker 1: all we'd all forget and we'd all be like, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know how the beginning of Facebook was the.

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Speaker 2: Irate War Award winning movie. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 3: Once you've had Jesse Eisenberg play you like there's no

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Speaker 3: going back, it's just you're which love him as an actor,

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Speaker 3: but like your image is ruined you. That's yeah, that's insane.

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Speaker 3: I the audacity.

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Speaker 1: Fun of fact. I have seen every movie that Jesse

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Speaker 1: Eisenberg has ever been in love that. I did a

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Speaker 1: Jesse Eisenberg film, Deep Dive, where I was gonna pick

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Speaker 1: one person and I was going to watch their whole uber.

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Speaker 1: I guess this was a couple of years ago now,

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Speaker 1: so maybe I need to get back into it if

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Speaker 1: there's any that have come out recently that I have missed.

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Speaker 1: But hell of an actor, right was born to play

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Speaker 1: Marker fanastic.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's fantastic in that movie. Andrew Garfield too. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 3: I could still quote the whole groosey flip flops scene.

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Speaker 2: But I love that. That's so funny. I God, I

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Speaker 2: need to watch more of his movies.

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Speaker 3: So like, last one I can think of is the

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Speaker 3: Bad Superman movie that he was in.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I haven't seen it. I don't plan on

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Speaker 2: watching it, but.

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Speaker 3: It was like Luthor's kind of But I guess if

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Speaker 3: he plays he plays Mark Zuckerberg and he plays like Luthor,

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Speaker 3: there's like a.

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Speaker 1: He has a tight Yes, let's take a quick break

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Speaker 1: at her back. So, in other election news, former South

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Speaker 1: Carolina governor Nikki Haley announced and quickly walked back my

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Speaker 1: least favorite social media policy that people float. She promised

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Speaker 1: that if she was elected, social media companies would be

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Speaker 1: required to authenticate people's identity before allowing them to comment.

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Speaker 1: So everything that you both on social media would be

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Speaker 1: attached to your real government name and identity. What could

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Speaker 1: go wrong? Right?

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Speaker 2: That's horrible.

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Speaker 3: That's a horrible idea as somebody again, as somebody who

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Speaker 3: is a teenager on the internet. Two, Like, I don't

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Speaker 3: think I ever used my real name like by Tumblr,

393
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Speaker 3: never had my real na would touch that. I am

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Speaker 3: grateful for the fact that I never had my real

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Speaker 3: name attached to that.

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Speaker 1: Like, oh my god, same like. And also I was

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Speaker 1: like when I was like first exploring the Internet, I

398
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Speaker 1: guess I was a scene kid or an emo kid,

399
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Speaker 1: or whoever you want to say it. So it was

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Speaker 1: it was always like lowercase X, upper case X, and

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Speaker 1: then like maybe it's like an ass trick, some an asterisk,

402
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,159
Speaker 1: and then like the name like it was always the wildest,

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Speaker 1: most cumbersome, elaborate names. And that was and that was

404
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Speaker 1: how you showed up on social media back you know,

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Speaker 1: back in my day.

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Speaker 3: When we were in private country, when the scene kids

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Speaker 3: ran exactly media, that was that was the peak.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, there would be.

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Speaker 1: You would go to you would go to my I

410
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Speaker 1: had my MySpace all tricked out so that when you

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Speaker 1: went to it, first of all, it would definitely crash

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Speaker 1: whatever browser you were using, but it would be like

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Speaker 1: falling Stars and then like Panic at the Disco, but

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Speaker 1: then the button deposit will be hidden, and so you

415
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Speaker 1: had to listen, Like it was very important to me

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Speaker 1: that you listened to this whole Panic at the Disco

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Speaker 1: song while looking at my profile.

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Speaker 2: That was such an era.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure if I came across your MySpace page would

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Speaker 3: have been like this person is so cool.

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Speaker 2: I would say that genuine that it's not SORRYCS.

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Speaker 3: I was like, I always wanted to be one of

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Speaker 3: those people that could like totally like readdo like their tumbler,

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Speaker 3: or like voting. And I'm terrible when it comes to

425
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Speaker 3: like technology ironically, as I say on this tech podcast,

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Speaker 3: but I can't, like I do not know how to

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Speaker 3: code anything. But I always thought those were like the

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Speaker 3: coolest blogs ever when you'd go to somebody's page and

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Speaker 3: it was like.

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Speaker 2: I was, you know, the big thing when I was on.

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Speaker 3: Tumblr was like doctor Who, and it was always like

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Speaker 3: the little like button that looked like the tartest Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I like tind to get the disco playing.

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Speaker 1: That was so fun. That is how I learned how

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Speaker 1: to code. And actually there's an entire like generation of

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Speaker 1: people that customizing profiles like MySpace is why they are

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Speaker 1: coders now, why they work in tech now, Like it

438
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 1: really was a crash course. Expressing yourself online was like

439
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 1: an early tech crash course for I think an entire

440
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 1: generation of us. Oh yeah, Nikki Haley said, we're gonna

441
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 1: say that they have to make sure that every person

442
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,400
Speaker 1: on social media is verifying. Everybody gets a verified sign

443
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,360
Speaker 1: so we know exactly who they are. Haley said during

444
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: a town hall with iowaccoers. What that will do is

445
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 1: eliminate every Russian bot, Iranian bot, and Chinese bot. That's

446
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 1: spreading all of this misinformation because it's the cheapest form

447
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 1: of warfare for them. They're going to start to be

448
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 1: more accountable because they know their family and their pastor

449
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 1: is going to see it. It's going to get more civilized,

450
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 1: Haley said. So none of this went overwhel It didn't

451
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: go over well with really anybody right, like folks on

452
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: the right, folks on the left. DeSantis told conservative political

453
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,880
Speaker 1: commentator Glenn Beck that he thought that her plan would

454
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 1: pave the way for a social credit system akin to

455
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 1: one in China. So eventually, Nikki Haley kind of dialed

456
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 1: back her remarks on CNBC. She said that she thinks

457
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 1: that life would be more civil if people were prohibited

458
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 1: from posting anonymously, but that anonymous accounts would still be

459
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 1: allowed for American citizens. She said, I don't mind anonymous

460
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 1: American people having free speech. What I don't like is

461
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 1: anonymous Russian or Chinese or Iranians having free speech.

462
00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:05,959
Speaker 4: So yeah, the quiet part outline, No, if you're an

463
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 4: Iran you can just yeah, like you don't even deserve

464
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 4: free speech.

465
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 1: So here's my thing about this, this idea that everybody

466
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 1: needs to be verified with their real government name is

467
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: not new. Trump floated it back when he was president,

468
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 1: even though he also had no problem boosting anonymous accounts

469
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 1: that he agreed with, but also at some point floated

470
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: the idea that like, there should be a no anonymous

471
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: accounts on social media. It comes up all the time,

472
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 1: and it's one of those policies that maybe sounds good

473
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: when you first hear it, you're like, oh, yeah, why not.

474
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 1: But then when you actually think about it and think

475
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: about the way the internet works, you start to realize

476
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: truly what a dangerous disaster it would be if everything

477
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 1: that you ever said on the Internet had you be

478
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 1: associated with your first and last government name, and it

479
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 1: would absolutely harm and silence and criminalize the most marginalized

480
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: among US, people who are already harmed and criminalized in

481
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 1: silence on social media platforms or face harsh consequences. We're

482
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 1: speaking up folks like whistleblowers, activists, survivors of violence, dissidence,

483
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 1: sex workers, The list goes on and on. David Green,

484
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: director of Civil Liberties at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, put

485
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: it really well, saying, for these individuals and the organizations

486
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 1: that support them, secure anonymity is critical. It may literally

487
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,719
Speaker 1: save lives. Anonymous communications have an important place in our

488
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 1: political and social discourse. Yeah. I just think that if

489
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: it wasn't for anonymous accounts online, we would never have

490
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: things like the Me Too movement. We probably never have

491
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 1: things like filming police and posting it on social media.

492
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: Think of all of the ways that anonymous accounts on

493
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 1: social media have really pushed our social and political discourse farther.

494
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 1: And I just think that again, it might seem like

495
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 1: the kind of thing that sounds like it would work

496
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 1: when you first hear it, but it would absolutely harm

497
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: people who are marginalized.

498
00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, even going back to the story up

499
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 3: at the top about the FCC and you know, talking

500
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 3: about cell phones and survivors of domestic assault and our

501
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,880
Speaker 3: domestic abuse. Yeah, social media has been another tool where

502
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 3: people can talk anonymously about their experiences. Do you know,

503
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 3: like you said, there is a hypocrisy and that like

504
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 3: you know, Trump was one of these people that floated

505
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,160
Speaker 3: this idea, and the same time, he's happy to uplift

506
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 3: anonymous accounts when it serves his narrative. But I think, like,

507
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 3: especially from the right right now, there's this weird like

508
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 3: fixation on anonymity and the way that anonymity is used. Yeah,

509
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 3: oftentimes as a tool for political activism and for social movements,

510
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 3: but it's like, at the same time, it's just kind

511
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 3: of a normal part of like online discourse. I mean,

512
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 3: just think about like how many like really big like

513
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 3: Twitter accounts that are like comedy accounts that are like

514
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 3: totally anonymous, like.

515
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 2: Like Drill.

516
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 3: Like I feel like it would break the whole like

517
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 3: kind of character if I knew who that person was

518
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 3: in real life, Like I don't want to know their name.

519
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 3: They're just this faceless like Twitter account that I see

520
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 3: that always puts out like weird things that are like

521
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 3: kind of funny.

522
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 2: I yeah, I don't know.

523
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 3: It's just such a like normal part of the Internet

524
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 3: landscape that, yes, can be used for a tool for

525
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 3: political activism. It is important in that sense, but at

526
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 3: the same time, it's just a part of the way

527
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 3: that people communicate.

528
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, imagine if instead of Drill it was Colin James

529
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 1: in Richmond, Virginia. It's like these like anonymity has been

530
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 1: part of the Internet for as long as the Internet

531
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 1: has been a thing. I think that it's one of

532
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: those things where people try to reverse that they might

533
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 1: not really be thinking about the ways that would not

534
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: just harm people, but also break our understanding of the Internet,

535
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: like it is a foundational part of how we communicate

536
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: online and certainly has a place in online discourse. The

537
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: Internet would not be what it is today if not

538
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 1: for anonymity. So, speaking of online discourse, the gaming publication

539
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: PC gamer put out a roundup for their thirtieth anniversary,

540
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: rounding up influential voices who worked on PC gamer in

541
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: the last thirty years, and guess what they did not

542
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: include a single woman. People were calling out influential women

543
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: in the space, women like ROBERTA. Williams, who co founded

544
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: Sierra Online, who is sometimes called like the Queen of

545
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: adventure games, and Mabel Atis, who was the first video

546
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 1: game writer. People were seriously pissed, like, I don't think

547
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: I've ever seen such clear and quick condemnation of a

548
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: piece of magazine writing in a long time. People were

549
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: referencing that billy on the street name a dollar miss

550
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: miss for a dollar name a woman. Also side note,

551
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: if somebody with a microphone came up to me and

552
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: asked me that, I don't think I think I would

553
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: be like bread Pitt, wait.

554
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 3: Would think I would totally same, absolutely and it was

555
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 3: a great clip though. I love it.

556
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: So this was going around on social media with people

557
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: somewhat confusing the issue, saying that that particular thirtieth anniversary

558
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: PC Gamer issue was meant to be celebrating the people

559
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: who worked for the magazine PC Gamer, not the gaming

560
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: industry in general. But here's my thing, I still feel

561
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: like that is still not great, Like I don't know

562
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 1: that PC Gamer should be celebrating how not diverse and

563
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: how not inclusive their coverage has been for the last

564
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: thirty years. In twenty twenty three, Andrew e Vernee, founder

565
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: of What's Good Games, tweeted, feels like an intentional troll

566
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: to not include any women in their list of influential

567
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: voices over the last thirty years. It isn't possible. They

568
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: just truly did not notice, Right? Is there not a

569
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: single woman on the team responsible for the celebration issue

570
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: and did not even one man on the team notice

571
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: and say something, this is what backsliding and plane sight

572
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: looks like. And I also just think overall, it like

573
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: just does not represent where the gaming space is and

574
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 1: is headed. There are tons of LGBTQ folks women, people

575
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: of color in the gaming space right now. These people

576
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: have been making games, but also writing about games, streaming

577
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: about games, you know, taking on serious issues in the space,

578
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: like that deep fake skin where popular women video game

579
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: streamers were ridiculed with non consensual deep fakes of them.

580
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: I just don't think that in this moment what we

581
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: need is a celebration of homogeny in this moment. In

582
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: a really thoughtful piece called Dear Video Game Industry, please

583
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: name a woman, Alyssa Marconte writes, though the gamer gate

584
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: trolls have lessened in number since twenty fourteen, or perhaps

585
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: many of them have slunk back to their dank caves

586
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: to hit their jewels, wank and blow the embedded food

587
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: prumbs out of the crannies of their keyboard, the harassment

588
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: that women in gaming experience is no less intense than

589
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: it was nine years ago. The only way to stop

590
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: that harassment is to make the existence of women and

591
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: BIPOC and l GBTQI plus people so normal, so obvious,

592
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: so in your face that objecting to it would be

593
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: like fighting against a rip current. The phrase that we

594
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: repeat at infinitum until we're blue in the face representation matters.

595
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: That means that the game Awards shouldn't just try out

596
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: the same well known male developers it does every year,

597
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: or relegate co host Sidney Goodman to a side stage

598
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: when she hands out the small awards like Best Esports

599
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: Coach or Favorite Community. It means that ign Summer of

600
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: Gaming live stream deck shouldn't feature four white men and

601
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: PC gamers exhaustive look back on its thirty year history

602
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: shouldn't be devoid of women contributors. It means that there

603
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: should be more female voices elevated on Twitch, at industry

604
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: events and developer meetings and at conventions and just yes

605
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: to everything will put the link to the piece in

606
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: the show notes. It is definitely worth a read. But

607
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: I think that the issue that people are screaming about

608
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: here is cultural. It's like, you can't just tell me

609
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: that this is the face of the space right now.

610
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: I understand that this was meant to be people who

611
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: worked on this particular magazine, but even that doesn't feel

612
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: good to be like, oh, well, we're celebrating ourselves and

613
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: how we're all white men. Like No, I don't think

614
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: that in twenty twenty three that is an accurate representation

615
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: of where the space is. And I just think that,

616
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 1: you know, big institutions like PC gamer, we ought to

617
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: be able to expect better from them by now.

618
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean piece of gamer. It's a it's

619
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 2: a big publication.

620
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 3: It's not like this is some small company coming out

621
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 3: and just being like we're going to celebrate our team

622
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 3: like they have. It's not like there aren't women for

623
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 3: them to choose from to elevate the women aren't there.

624
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 3: I think again trying to you know, see a hopeful

625
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 3: kind of spin on this. Obviously, like Gamery came up

626
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 3: in that quote and gamer Gate comes up a lot

627
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 3: in this podcast.

628
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 2: I think like the seeing the changed from.

629
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 3: Just everything that happened with Gamergate to this article coming

630
00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 3: out now and the backlash that it's facing, that it

631
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 3: feels positive to me.

632
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 2: Like that feels like some positive change.

633
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 3: The fact that I think women and people of color,

634
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 3: LGBTQ plus people like we were able to band together

635
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 3: a little bit more and actually like stand up ourselves

636
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 3: and that that that structure is there and that support

637
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 3: is there. We know that that kind of like, you know,

638
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 3: we're all kind of in the same boat here. We're

639
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 3: all gonna kind of support each other against this really

640
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 3: cis white male, homogenous narrative that is they're attempting to

641
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 3: craft here. So yeah, I again, I mean this is

642
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 3: a good Like it's good to see that the that

643
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 3: backlash is happening, but.

644
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 2: Yeah it is.

645
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 3: Again it's twenty twenty three, Like I feel like we

646
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 3: are well past the whole like gamer bros. Stereotype idea

647
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 3: of like who plays video games. At least I thought

648
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 3: we were kind of past that clearly, Like, I mean,

649
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 3: you know, harassment is going to continue to happen because unfortunately,

650
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:01,719
Speaker 3: like that was just kind of the world we live

651
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 3: in that shouldn't be the norm. And I do think

652
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 3: we should continue to write back against that, but like

653
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 3: you know, but yeah, it is like this just seems

654
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 3: like such an obvious like blind spot for them, and

655
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 3: and yeah, like again glad to hear that people are

656
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:20,439
Speaker 3: speaking out, and I really hope that something changes because

657
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 3: of this.

658
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's so important because I just moderated a

659
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: panel with the Family Online Safety Institutes gathering and this

660
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: came up again and again, this idea that more and

661
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: more people of all identities are showing up in the

662
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 1: gaming space, especially since the pandemic, and so it's why

663
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: making sure that these spaces, our space is where everybody

664
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,439
Speaker 1: is represented, everybody can show up safely truly does matter

665
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: so much. And I think that institutions like PC gamer

666
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: need to just be better about representing that and representing

667
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,959
Speaker 1: where we really are. Like imagine if they had taken

668
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: this time to look back on the legacy of the

669
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: space being treated like a white cis boys club, right,

670
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: and the harm that that it's caused, and how they

671
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: were planning to do better going forward or something. I

672
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,399
Speaker 1: do think that they have such a responsibility and also

673
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: a power to really make sure that the space is

674
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: being shaped in a way where folks can really be

675
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: represented for who they are showing up to the space.

676
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

677
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean I think it is really interesting like

678
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 3: video games, and you mentioned like post beginning of the pandemic.

679
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 3: I don't like saying post pandemic because I don't think

680
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 3: it is fair to say that, but you know, post

681
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 3: the beginning of shutdown, the beginning of lockdown, a lot

682
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 3: more people have found solids in video games, and I

683
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 3: have kind of become more involved in like you know,

684
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 3: video game spaces and communities, and I think like that

685
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 3: whole idea of shattering who the gamer bro is and

686
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,439
Speaker 3: all of that who's playing video games, Like that's something

687
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 3: that we're seeing kind of across a lot of entertainment

688
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 3: sort of things right now. I think it is just

689
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 3: it's the yeah, the whole conversation about representation. It is

690
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 3: why it is important when it comes to movies, it

691
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 3: is important when it comes to I.

692
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 2: Don't know, I only I always because I feel like a.

693
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 3: Big issue for me is always representation of movies and

694
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 3: when it comes to like queer people with color, women, whatever,

695
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:09,879
Speaker 3: and it feels like such a silly thing on top

696
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 3: of like all of the various terrible.

697
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 2: Things happening in the world.

698
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 3: But it really does like impact how we see each

699
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 3: other and how we see like, you know, movies, video games,

700
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 3: all this.

701
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 2: It's part of our culture.

702
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 3: It's part of like how we it's it is part

703
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 3: of how we see each other, and it is important

704
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 3: to see ourselves reflected. It is important to see people

705
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 3: with out their experiences reflected. Otherwise you're going to sort

706
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 3: of create these weird bubbles for people where all they're

707
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 3: seeing is just white straight men and that's not the

708
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 3: reality of the world.

709
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 1: So yeah, I am.

710
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 3: It's nice to see that we're kind of there has

711
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 3: been a change since this sort of like game or

712
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 3: gait thing that happened like what like I think it

713
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 3: was ten years ago, like almost exactly. Yeah, and and

714
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 3: the way that conversation has changed. It's disappointing to see

715
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 3: how much work there's will needs to me like needs

716
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 3: to happen, especially like from an institutional level. I think,

717
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,439
Speaker 3: like you know, the fans have changed, but that doesn't

718
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,240
Speaker 3: necessarily mean that like these institutions, these companies have changed.

719
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 3: And I think that's kind of the next uh sort

720
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 3: of phase of that.

721
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's yeah, more after a quick break, let's

722
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 1: get right back into it. Well, to that end, I

723
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: have to talk about what's going on with this new

724
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: movie the Marvels. I kind of saved this topic until

725
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 1: you were here. I was like, I want to talk

726
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: about this with them, like I know, I have a

727
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: feeling that you'll have thoughts. Have you heard about this

728
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: new movie? Have you seen it?

729
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 3: I have heard of it, I will be honest, I

730
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 3: haven't seen it. Thank you version for shaving for you.

731
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 3: As you know, I'm a big superhero fan. I'm a

732
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 3: big Marble fan. I have a lot of thoughts on this,

733
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 3: to be totally honest, I have not watched a lot

734
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 3: of the most.

735
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 2: Recent I'm seeing stuff.

736
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 3: I'm sure we're going to get into it, but I

737
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 3: do think it is really interesting that like Marvel obviously

738
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 3: had a really big moment in pop culture, and I

739
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 3: think there was a point where it was it was

740
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,879
Speaker 3: really popular and it was really resonated with a lot

741
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:24,280
Speaker 3: of people.

742
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 2: I think we have seen the past like year or

743
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,439
Speaker 2: so that's kind of fallen off.

744
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 3: I assume that Disney was at least somewhat aware of that,

745
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 3: the fact that people were kind of losing interest. I

746
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 3: think there definitely are things they could do to get

747
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 3: audiences to come back. I don't think they're doing that,

748
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 3: and I think they are unfairly putting a lot of

749
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,760
Speaker 3: the blame on a lot of the women and people

750
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 3: of color that have kind of they pseudo elevated within

751
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 3: these companies. But yeah, I'm sure I kind of get

752
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 3: into that. But yeah, I haven't seen it. I probably

753
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 3: will at some point, but yeah, I.

754
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 2: Don't know.

755
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 3: I haven't really had an interest in going to sit

756
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,479
Speaker 3: through another move and see You movie lately.

757
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I should say full disclosure, I have also

758
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: not seen it, and I also just generally don't watch

759
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: a lot of movies like this, although I am I

760
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: watched wand Division, so I like it a little bit.

761
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 1: I'm not like, I'm not like opposed to it, But

762
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 1: so if for folks who don't know the Marvels stars

763
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 1: Bree Larsen as Captain Marvel and Tiana Paris as astronaut

764
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: Monica Rambo, who we saw in wand Division, the movie

765
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: is like not doing great at the box office. On

766
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 1: opening weekend, the movie generated around forty seven million dollars,

767
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: which Rebecca Rubin at Variety said is the worst debut

768
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: in the MCU history. I was under the impression that

769
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: the film must be getting like terrible review as. I

770
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: was like, oh, it must be a bad movie. But

771
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 1: I checked it out on Rotten Tomatoes, which I will

772
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 1: say caveat. We talked about that like maybe people can

773
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: gamify that, so keep that in mind. But the reviews

774
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: actually look fair to mix to me. It's sixty two

775
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 1: percent fresh for critics eighty four percent fresh for audience,

776
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 1: so it doesn't look like it's like the reviews are terrible.

777
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:13,280
Speaker 1: I guess not being panned.

778
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, I will say also, I have heard I haven't

779
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 3: seen it, but I have a couple of friends with it,

780
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 3: and I all thought it was like good, you know,

781
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 3: it's a Marvel movie.

782
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 2: Yes there's but yeah it's I mean, I've heard good

783
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 2: things about it.

784
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: Same, so you know, I have not seen this movie.

785
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: But social media was social media and was quick to

786
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: blame the poor performance on wokeness, which is a claim

787
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: that is like so silly that it's not even worth

788
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: disputing here. But then those conversations took another turn, namely

789
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: blaming the box office failure on the director n Acosta.

790
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 1: Nacosta is a black woman. She's actually the first black

791
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 1: woman to ever direct a Marvel movie. On Twitter, critics

792
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: are basically not movie critics. Like social media critics, we're

793
00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: basically trying to make it seem like she is the

794
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: reason in the movie is not performing well. One tweet

795
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: that was viewed almost five million times claimed quote, the

796
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 1: director of the Marvels had only directed one feature before,

797
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,839
Speaker 1: it was the failed retelling of Candy Man. They're letting

798
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 1: people with barely any experience direct two hundred and fifty

799
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: million dollar films based on their race and gender. Be

800
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: as critical of it as you want. It's all rigged.

801
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 1: I have so many problems with that. My first problem

802
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 1: is that it's not even true. A community note was

803
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 1: added to that tweet, saying that Nia DaCosta wrote and

804
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: directed the crime thriller Little Woods back in twenty eighteen,

805
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: winning the Nora Effren Prize at the Tribecca Film Festival,

806
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: before directing Candy Man and then directing Marvels, So that

807
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 1: resume puts her squarely in line with previous NCU directors

808
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: like John Watts, who had a very similar resume before

809
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,439
Speaker 1: directing their first Marvel film, Right, And so that's one.

810
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: Two is this idea that I absolutely cannot stand, which

811
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: is like, oh, she only got what she got for

812
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,720
Speaker 1: being a black woman. They don't give black women anything.

813
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: I can tell you that. So if you are a

814
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: black woman and you got something, you got somewhere, you

815
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: got an honor, an accolade, you earned that shit, right,

816
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 1: Like they're not just giving away like if you were.

817
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 1: If you are in these rooms and getting these things,

818
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 1: you got them because you earned them. They don't give

819
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 1: us anything. So that that claim in and of itself

820
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,800
Speaker 1: is it just it just makes me laugh it just

821
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:20,760
Speaker 1: makes me laugh.

822
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 3: Right, And Okay, Also, I'm like what iron Man came

823
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 3: out in like two thousand and eight, I think like

824
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 3: it's been around for a while. The fact that it's

825
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 3: been over ten years and this is their first black

826
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 3: woman that they have directing a film, I think maybe

827
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 3: just their second black director.

828
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 2: Period of I might be wrong with that, I'll double check.

829
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 2: But that's not good for them? Is that good? Like

830
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 2: I have a whole but yeah, no, the whole thing,

831
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,359
Speaker 2: especially about like the other directors too. I mean.

832
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 3: Honest, like none of the director Marvel movies really had

833
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 3: like super critically acclaimed stuff beforehand, and the ones that

834
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 3: did it usually was like specifically because they okay, like

835
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 3: the Russo brothers did like Community before they did all

836
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 3: the Marvel, which I love Community, it's a great show,

837
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 3: but it's like that's like a it's a sitcom.

838
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 2: It's not like an action movie. And then they got

839
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 2: this huge action movie deal and like the movies did

840
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 2: well and they kept getting more movies because of that.

841
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 3: But it's like they started in the same place. Yeah,

842
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 3: and I mean other direct like a lot of yeah,

843
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 3: a lot of their directors came from very like sort

844
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 3: of smaller film backgrounds before they did Marvel movies, like

845
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 3: saying that, oh, it's this one person's like they were

846
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 3: the exception.

847
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 2: No, she wasn't like this.

848
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,479
Speaker 3: This has just kind of been their their formula. I also,

849
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 3: I have a whole theory about this. I think the

850
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 3: fact that, like I kind of mentioned before, or I

851
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 3: think Disney is somewhat aware of the fact that people

852
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 3: are losing interest in superhero movies. You know, it was

853
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 3: a big trend, and trends fall off, and I think

854
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 3: like people are always gonna love like Spider Man and like,

855
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 3: you know, the big ones like those are always gonna

856
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 3: get big audiences. But the MCU just doesn't have the

857
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 3: same kind of like cultural power that it did like

858
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 3: a couple of years ago.

859
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 2: I think they know that.

860
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 3: I think the fact that all of a sudden they

861
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 3: suddenly seem super interested in putting women and people of

862
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 3: color and queer people in their movies.

863
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 2: I think it's almost sort of.

864
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 3: Like a weird like latch, like like they're sort of

865
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 3: using it as a like great, now we can just

866
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 3: sort of like turn the blame on them, Like the

867
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 3: first one I can remember that was sort of like

868
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:46,359
Speaker 3: a big thing that it like didn't do very well,

869
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:50,240
Speaker 3: and it was was Eternals, which Chloe Dial directed, who's

870
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 3: a fantastic director, and that also was a movie where

871
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 3: they intentionally included a lot of actors of color. I

872
00:44:57,320 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 3: think they changed one of the characters to be uh

873
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 3: instead of a man, and they like included a queer couple.

874
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 3: And then the movie didn't do very well, and I

875
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 3: think it was very like the company didn't outright say anything,

876
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 3: but they were sort of like they let the discourse

877
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 3: go in the direction of like, oh, well, it didn't

878
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:14,399
Speaker 3: it gets same thing, like it didn't do well because

879
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 3: of wokeness, Like it gives them sort of a weird

880
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 3: like it is it is really messed up that they're

881
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 3: like kind of now positioning themselves, and I think that

882
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 3: kind of has what they've been doing for like the

883
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 3: past years when they've been positioning themselves. It's like we're

884
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 3: putting out the Marvels, which is this movie with like

885
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 3: all of these women and directed by a woman of color.

886
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 3: But then they're not, like they're not putting the same

887
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 3: effort into marketing that they did with their other movies,

888
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 3: and they're allowing it like when it doesn't do well.

889
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 3: Instead of being like, yeah, we recognized that that was

890
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 3: on us, or like we just recognized that kind of

891
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:49,839
Speaker 3: the market's changing, they're letting the blame fall on women

892
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 3: like Na Costa and just the back that this is

893
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 3: like a female bled movie. And again, personally, I'm personally

894
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 3: not a big Captain Marvel fan, Like I don't think

895
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 3: she's that interest sing of a character. But I think

896
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 3: like everything that Brie Larson has gone through because of

897
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 3: like the stuff that she's done with Marvel is so

898
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 3: like it's so disapporting, just like the level of the

899
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 3: harassment that she's kind of faced and this is just

900
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 3: such a clear example of that happening, and it is

901
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 3: it is really weird that they're Yeah, again, like the

902
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 3: fact that they're kind of first of all positioning themselves

903
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 3: is like, look how progressive we are. We are putting

904
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 3: out this movie with all these women of color and

905
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 3: putting out all these TV shows we're having like more diversity.

906
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 3: But then they're not owning up to the fact that

907
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 3: they're setting a lot of these women up to be

908
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:44,399
Speaker 3: harassed and to face that kind of backlash on people.

909
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 1: That is an interesting theory, And I tell you, I mean,

910
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: the studio could put out statements talking about how proud

911
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,720
Speaker 1: they are to have their first black female Marvel director,

912
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: or like really advocating and supporting the people who are

913
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 1: in this movie. They could make it clear that they

914
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: are sticking by them and that they're championing them. And

915
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 1: I think and as far as I know, and if

916
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: anybody knows, like let me know, but as far as

917
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 1: I know, they're not really doing that. Like you could

918
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: loudly affirm, like we stick by her talent.

919
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 3: I don't think they have, but I do know in

920
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 3: the past they haven't because and this isn't just Mark,

921
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 3: I mean it is like Disney is the parent company.

922
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,800
Speaker 3: Like I know, in the last kind of set of

923
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 3: like Star Wars movies came out, that was a whole

924
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 3: thing where Kelly Murray tran uh is, you know, a

925
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 3: woman of color was a lead in the second of

926
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 3: the prequel or of the sequel movies. I think she

927
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:40,439
Speaker 3: was fan I thought she was great in that movie.

928
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 3: She received so much harassment just for being in that movie.

929
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 3: John Boyego also received a ton of harassment for being

930
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 3: a black man in those movies. And Mark, I mean

931
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 3: not Marvel, Disney did not stick up for them at all,

932
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 3: So I'm not surprised to see that the same thing

933
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 3: is now happening.

934
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 2: But again their other property, What do I.

935
00:47:58,440 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: Think it's going on there?

936
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 3: I mean, I honestly think it is like the sort

937
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 3: of weird combination of them wanting to have this facade

938
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 3: of being like, look, we are elevating people of color,

939
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 3: We're elevating women, but then when push comes to shove,

940
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 3: not standing up for them and not you know, I

941
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 3: wasn't it like, because there was a whole thing a

942
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 3: couple of years ago too with like Chris Pratt was

943
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 3: getting a bunch of hate online.

944
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 2: I would argue rightfully so.

945
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:30,280
Speaker 1: Because because I thought seemed to be a good person.

946
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 3: But like the way that all of the other like

947
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 3: Barble actors like jumped to support him was like weird.

948
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 3: It was so especially like that happening after all the

949
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,720
Speaker 3: stuff with Bree Larson originally, and yeah, all the stuff

950
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 3: that happened on like the Star Wars side of like

951
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 3: Disney's kind of various things that they own. Yeah, it

952
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 3: really like there definitely is like a double standard there.

953
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 3: I'm not sure what the internal feelings are from disneyside

954
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 3: not me trying to like start conspiracies about Disney. But yeah, no,

955
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 3: there definitely is a discrepancy with how they treat their

956
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 3: white male actors and how they treat their the women

957
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:13,800
Speaker 3: that work for them and the people of color and

958
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 3: the queer people at work for them.

959
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:16,839
Speaker 2: So there's some somethings up.

960
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 1: Something's up. Also, side note, imagine if you were a

961
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 1: woman of color who had faced harassment because you dared

962
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 1: to be in a Disney property, and then you got

963
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 1: the call where it's like, we need everybody to publicly

964
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,279
Speaker 1: tweet supportive Chris Bratt right now, Oh my god, that

965
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:33,399
Speaker 1: would chef my ass.

966
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 3: I honestly, I can't remember if Free Large and Ever

967
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 3: like release the statement around that, but I don't think

968
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 3: she didn't, which I also I totally support her.

969
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,759
Speaker 2: If she did not, that was but yeah, that's that is.

970
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 2: I would be so mad. I would be so mad.

971
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: I completely agree with your point about institutions wanting the

972
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:55,800
Speaker 1: accolades that come with the appearance of like we have

973
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 1: an inclusive cast, an inclusive director, but then not actually

974
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 1: doing the things that it takes to support those people, right, Like,

975
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:07,280
Speaker 1: it's not just about hiring marginalized people. It is about

976
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 1: also creating the conditions that allow those people to do

977
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,479
Speaker 1: their jobs and thrive. And so if you're just gonna

978
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: hire them and then be quiet when they face unfair,

979
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: gendered or racialized harassment, you're not actually doing anything to

980
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 1: get accolades for You're just like setting them up to

981
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: become punching bags so that you can look more. You know,

982
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,800
Speaker 1: I don't know with it or whatever, like, like, I

983
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: really take issue with that, And I think another point

984
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: to this that really I think I've made this point

985
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:38,399
Speaker 1: on the show before, but when you have these films

986
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,720
Speaker 1: that are being unfairly and harshly critiqued for things about

987
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 1: like the race or the gender the people who are

988
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: in them, or the director or whatever, it does create

989
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:51,760
Speaker 1: this situation that I hate where people like well Meeting

990
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:55,720
Speaker 1: people feel the need to really go overboard to defend

991
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: these movies, to be like, oh, I'm gonna like this

992
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: city is getting all this unfair racist, sexist hate, so

993
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 1: that I'm gonna be the champion of that movie. But

994
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: I don't like that either. I want to be able

995
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 1: to just watch the movie and judge it or critique

996
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 1: it on its merit. I understand that, but like it

997
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 1: is just not the climate in which I want to

998
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: see a movie. I want to watch a movie and

999
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 1: be like, here's what I liked about it, here's where

1000
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,440
Speaker 1: it fell short, and not feel like I'm having to

1001
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 1: do some kind of like weird activism by tweeting about

1002
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 1: how much I like it to defend it from these racist,

1003
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 1: sexist attacks.

1004
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 3: Right yeah, Because then the other side of it is

1005
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:30,319
Speaker 3: like it's still like it's still a Marvel movie, it's

1006
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 3: still Disney movie. It is still like a movie that

1007
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 3: is being cruised by this like multi billion dollar company.

1008
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 3: Like there's nothing really particularly progressive about like going out

1009
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 3: and supporting this movie.

1010
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1011
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 3: I mentioned this earlier, like I'm not a big fan

1012
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 3: of Captain Marble. I didn't really think that was a

1013
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,919
Speaker 3: good movie. I haven't seen this one yet.

1014
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:52,399
Speaker 2: I don't.

1015
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 3: I really loved the Miss Marble Show. I thought that

1016
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 3: was great. I'm excited to see, like, you know, that

1017
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 3: actress was fantastic. I think, like I'll probably see the

1018
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 3: movie because I do want to see her again. But

1019
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 3: it's like, yeah I should, I don't. I don't want

1020
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 3: to have to feel like I have to defend this

1021
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 3: movie somehow because this is going to be the epitome

1022
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 3: of feminism and film for the next couple like that,

1023
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 3: which is another weird thing I think like Marvel and

1024
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,800
Speaker 3: Disney has done, is they've because they've kind of taken

1025
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 3: over the market so much. It's like every time, like

1026
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 3: everything they do within movie like that is the standard.

1027
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 3: So it's like when they put a woman in a movie,

1028
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 3: you have to go support it. You have to go

1029
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 3: watch it, otherwise you're not supporting women in film. And

1030
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 3: it's like, no, you could go watch another movie made

1031
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 3: by a woman that probably has a more feminist, you know,

1032
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 3: message or whatever. Like I again, I haven't seen this movie,

1033
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 3: but like the message of the Last Captain Marvel movie

1034
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 3: was sort of like yay, we love the military, which

1035
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 3: I don't think is like the best.

1036
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 2: Thing to be putting out there, but yeah, I don't

1037
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 2: know it is. It is really weird.

1038
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 3: Same with Yeah, like the I think they've kind of

1039
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:01,840
Speaker 3: done the same thing when it comes to you narratives

1040
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 3: about people of color, narratives about women. They probably have

1041
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 3: not had that many queer characters yet, but it is

1042
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 3: sort of weird to be seeing like like they had

1043
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 3: the like Doctor Strange movie there was a queer character.

1044
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:15,359
Speaker 3: The only reason you would know that she was queer

1045
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 3: is because she has a tiny uh Pride flag pin

1046
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,320
Speaker 3: on her jacket. And they acted like they were like

1047
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 3: they were like, yes, diversity win for us. We did

1048
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:25,800
Speaker 3: such a good job. And it was like, no, I

1049
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 3: like dinety nine percent of the people that watched that

1050
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 3: didn't pick up on that.

1051
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 2: That is not like, if that is the standard you're

1052
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 2: setting for queer representation, we are fucked.

1053
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:41,479
Speaker 1: Like it's God, I did you ever watch that show

1054
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 1: on HBO? The other two I haven't.

1055
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:45,319
Speaker 2: I've been meaning too though, Okay, I.

1056
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 1: Don't want to spoil it. There's a plot line where

1057
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 1: somebody's in it I think a Disney movie and it's like, oh,

1058
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 1: it's the first openly gay blob in a movie. How

1059
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:56,479
Speaker 1: do you know he's gay because he sleeps with women,

1060
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:58,759
Speaker 1: not other blobs. And this, you know, is like the

1061
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: levels that they will go through to be like, see,

1062
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: we did it. She's wearing a pin like.

1063
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 3: My favorite somebody who made a collage one time of

1064
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 3: all the articles of the different like first gay character

1065
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 3: and dissy movie, which they were like and all of

1066
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 3: them like we made a we made a slight comment

1067
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,279
Speaker 3: that could have been interpreted as a character coming out,

1068
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 3: but you know what, we left it ambiguous enough that

1069
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:22,399
Speaker 3: like the right wing won't care.

1070
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 2: It's so weird. They love patting themselves on the back

1071
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 2: for the bare minimum.

1072
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, like a character. They're they're they're gaze lingered a

1073
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 1: little bit, and that's how you're supposed to know. Like

1074
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:34,919
Speaker 1: that was supposed to be the coming out scene, y'all.

1075
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 1: So for all of this, I will I do have

1076
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 1: to say that it does sound like the director DaCosta

1077
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 1: is not sweating it. In an interview with Variety's Angelique Jackson,

1078
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,279
Speaker 1: she said, there are pockets where you go because you're like,

1079
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 1: I'm a super fan. I want to exist in the

1080
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 1: space of just adoration, which includes civilized critique. Then there

1081
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:54,840
Speaker 1: are pockets that are really virulent and violent and racist

1082
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 1: and sexist and homophobic and all those awful things. And

1083
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 1: I choose a side of the light that is the

1084
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 1: part of the fandom that I'm most attracted to. And

1085
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:06,400
Speaker 1: I really liked that it's like not focusing on the hatred,

1086
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,320
Speaker 1: the racism, the homeophobia, all of that, but focusing on

1087
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 1: the light. Because she's got a great career ahead of her,

1088
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 1: she's already hit a lot of like really dynamic and

1089
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,840
Speaker 1: exciting career milestones. I was happy to read that she

1090
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:20,720
Speaker 1: is not letting this get to her, that she's focused

1091
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:21,399
Speaker 1: on the light.

1092
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:23,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good to hear.

1093
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:25,359
Speaker 3: And that's really interesting too, because I mean, you brought

1094
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 3: up her other her last film that she did was

1095
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:29,320
Speaker 3: Candy Man, which there was another one where there was

1096
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:31,760
Speaker 3: a whole like it wasn't as big as this, obviously,

1097
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 3: but there was a whole like it came out right

1098
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,840
Speaker 3: before the lockdown started. There was a whole thing about

1099
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 3: like marketing and how that and that conversation too, and yeah,

1100
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,839
Speaker 3: and again it came out like right before everything shut down,

1101
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 3: so it was sort of hard to you know, hold

1102
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 3: that up to the same standards. But yeah, I mean,

1103
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 3: she seems like she's a super talented individual, and I

1104
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 3: hope the.

1105
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 2: Best for her.

1106
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 3: And you know, it's unfortunate that this has kind of

1107
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 3: been the the experience that she's had with Marvel and

1108
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,320
Speaker 3: with Disney, but I do truly hope.

1109
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 2: The best for her.

1110
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,280
Speaker 3: And again, I do think that, you know, the future

1111
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 3: of cinema, the future of storytelling, especially storytelling that is

1112
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 3: aimed at marginalized folks. It's not going to come from Disney.

1113
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 3: It's not going to come from these big companies. It's

1114
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:22,360
Speaker 3: going to come from these really talented individuals that are

1115
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 3: making art that really reflects what they want to see

1116
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 3: in the world.

1117
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 2: So I truly hope the best for her and for all.

1118
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 3: Of the you know, swept aside women, people of color,

1119
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 3: queer people of the Disney machine. Maybe they can all

1120
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:40,759
Speaker 3: come together and do their own thing and it'll be

1121
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:42,719
Speaker 3: way better than anything Disney's made in the past ten

1122
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:43,320
Speaker 3: years anyway.

1123
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, speaking of very talented individuals, Joey, thank

1124
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 1: you so much for being here and talking through all

1125
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:51,400
Speaker 1: these stories with me anytime.

1126
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 2: Loved being on, always down to you know, talk sit

1127
00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:57,720
Speaker 2: about Disney and Marble.

1128
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 1: And just in case folks missed it, tell us again

1129
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:02,839
Speaker 1: it at the new pod.

1130
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 3: Yes, thank you for reminding me. You all should go

1131
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:11,400
Speaker 3: check out. It's called Afterlives The Leali and Polanco Story.

1132
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 3: Uh it is available. The first episode is out wherever

1133
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 3: you listen to podcasts. Our host is Raquel Willis, who's

1134
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 3: a super awesome journalist, activist. She's done a lot of

1135
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 3: really amazing work within the trans community and trans storytelling.

1136
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 3: She also has a memoir that's coming out I think

1137
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 3: next week, but yeah, you should check it out after Lives.

1138
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 2: It is a heavy one.

1139
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 3: We do have our trigger warnings and everything up top,

1140
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 3: so definitely pay attention to those, take care of yourself.

1141
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 3: But I do think it is a really important story

1142
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 3: to get out there. It's important just in the conversation

1143
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:48,920
Speaker 3: about trans folks and the violence that we face, you know,

1144
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:52,479
Speaker 3: from both in her personally and from a state level,

1145
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 3: and this is a story that talks about state violence

1146
00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 3: and particularly for those who but also kind of live

1147
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 3: in New York. He talks a lot about Riker's Island

1148
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 3: and the that is an institution, which I think is

1149
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 3: just a really important conversation to be having right now. Yeah,

1150
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 3: go check it out after Lives. Wherever you get your podcasts,

1151
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:14,080
Speaker 3: first episodes out.

1152
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 1: Now, definitely check it out. Check out Raquel's new memoir,

1153
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 1: The Risk It Takes to Bloom. Joey, thanks for all

1154
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 1: the amazing work you're doing. Is you are such a

1155
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:25,480
Speaker 1: force of course, Thanks Bridget, and thanks to all of

1156
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 1: you for listening. If you want more at free content,

1157
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 1: check out our patreon at Tangody dot com, slash Patreon.

1158
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 1: We'll talk to you soon, be well. If you're looking

1159
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 1: for ways to support the show, check out our mark

1160
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 1: store at tangodi dot com slash store. Got a story

1161
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:44,960
Speaker 1: about an interesting thing in tech, or just want to

1162
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 1: say hi, You can reach us at Hello at tangodi

1163
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 1: dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode

1164
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 1: at TENG Goody dot com. There Are No Girls on

1165
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 1: the Internet was created by me bridge It Todd. It's

1166
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio and Unboss Creative, edited by Joey

1167
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 1: pat Jonathan Strickland is our execut producer. Terry Harrison is

1168
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 1: our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amado is our contributing producer.

1169
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help

1170
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 1: us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For

1171
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,

1172
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.