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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should Know

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Speaker 1: from House Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me as always as

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Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and that makes this stuff you

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Speaker 1: should know, the continued political edition. Because we did presidential pardons,

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Speaker 1: we're all political now. Well, this is the time of

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Speaker 1: the year, you know. Yeah, it's beginning to look a

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Speaker 1: lot like political season. I'm going to day to cast

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Speaker 1: my ballot for Georgia to start letting everybody buy booze

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Speaker 1: on Sunday. I am too. I appreciate you doing that. No,

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Speaker 1: I'm voting against it. A lot of people on the

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Speaker 1: a j C they had, you know, the opinion, like

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Speaker 1: what do you think? And the people that were against it,

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Speaker 1: we're all just like, well, you got six days of eak,

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Speaker 1: Like why to change it? Why bother? You know, it's

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Speaker 1: just the one day. Is it really that big of

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Speaker 1: a pain? And it's like what has lost on these

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Speaker 1: people is that this is the United States of America.

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Speaker 1: It's about freedom. It's not about buying booze on Sunday.

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Speaker 1: It's about somebody else telling you not to when this

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Speaker 1: is two thousand eleven. Yes, um, nice chuck. Yeah. Well, um,

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Speaker 1: let's stop talking politics and instead let's talk animals. Let's

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Speaker 1: talk biology. You know much about donkeys? Uh? No, okay,

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Speaker 1: not really. Well, donkeys are a member of the horse family,

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Speaker 1: but there are different species from horse. Donkeys and mules

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Speaker 1: are not the same, correct there Uh, because there are

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Speaker 1: different species. It makes it really weird that they can

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Speaker 1: not only mate but procreate. But donkeys and horses do

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Speaker 1: get it on and with the producer mules. So, um,

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Speaker 1: a mule is actually the offspring of a male donkey

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Speaker 1: jack and a female horse a mayor. How I do

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Speaker 1: not know that in forty years a henney is a

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Speaker 1: is the offspring of a female donkey a jenny, and

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Speaker 1: a male horse stallion. So a mule or a henny

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Speaker 1: can be boy or girl. It depends on what their

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Speaker 1: parents were. So this is actually the second podcast where

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Speaker 1: we've started with equestrian definitions. Yes, interesting, and I also

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Speaker 1: want to give a little shout out to the donkey.

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Speaker 1: Apparently a donkey they're very well known for stubbornness, of course,

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Speaker 1: but um, apparently it is a misinterpretation as I understand it.

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Speaker 1: Of they're incredibly well defined sense of self preservation. They

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Speaker 1: are not very easily frightened or um forced into doing

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Speaker 1: something they think is not in their own best interest,

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Speaker 1: which comes off to us as stubborn jackass donkey mule

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Speaker 1: who won't go down the trail, and they're like the

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Speaker 1: gold No, no, I could fall off that interesting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I think humans should start listening to their donkeys

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Speaker 1: and to make sure that people don't accuse us of

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Speaker 1: um doncubias. Yes, I want to talk also about elephants too,

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Speaker 1: because if you talk donkeys, you have to talk elephants

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Speaker 1: and eventually electric eels, which we'll get too later at

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Speaker 1: the tea party. No, no, no, I thought they might

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Speaker 1: have had their own. I don't know. I don't think so.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's electric eels. Pretty awesome. They do

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Speaker 1: have that carved up snake. Yeah, they don't tread on

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Speaker 1: me snake that was carved up into the thirteen colonies,

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Speaker 1: But that's definitely not an electric eel. Elephants and are

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Speaker 1: are a horse of a completely different color. A few

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Speaker 1: couple of facts of them. They are, their societies are

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Speaker 1: structured by female. They the if you see a group

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Speaker 1: of elephants walking around, they're all female. They live in

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Speaker 1: the same family their whole lives. The elephant pack is

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Speaker 1: led by a female. It's matriarchal, and males spend their

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Speaker 1: whole lives like just basically doing their own thing, hanging

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Speaker 1: out and then coming around to mate every once in a

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Speaker 1: a while. And these lives can can live, can go

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Speaker 1: for up to eighty two years. And elephants are pretty

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Speaker 1: amazing animals. They are very well known to mourn, scientifically

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Speaker 1: proven to mourn they're dead. The first study that established

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Speaker 1: that was in two thousand five that found that elephants

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Speaker 1: will return to where their loved ones have fallen and

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Speaker 1: visit their bones and skulls and tusks and want to

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Speaker 1: stroke them and just kind of meditate over them for

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Speaker 1: a while. That's very sad, right. So you have donkeys,

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Speaker 1: you have elephants. You have American politics. That I think

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Speaker 1: is as interesting as the story of how they became

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Speaker 1: symbols of politics. I would say it's more interesting, alright.

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Speaker 1: It depends on your your leanings. This one was written

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Speaker 1: by Sam Abramson. You remember him. He was a good guy.

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Speaker 1: I have no idea. I doubt if he listens. Uh so,

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Speaker 1: Thomas Nast. If you're gonna start the discussion on how

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Speaker 1: the donkey and the elephant became symbols of our two

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Speaker 1: political parties, there's only one place to start and end,

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Speaker 1: and that is a German. Oddly enough, a German born

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Speaker 1: political satirist and illustrator, cartoonist, wood block cutter. Yeah, really

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Speaker 1: named Thomas Nast, who was born in Germany, came over

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Speaker 1: to New York City when he was six, and uh

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Speaker 1: was a natural. He was a shoeing right off the

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Speaker 1: bat with this artwork stuff. Yeah, he was pretty good,

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Speaker 1: you can tell. And you've if you haven't heard of him,

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Speaker 1: you've still seen his stuff somewhere out there. You've seen

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Speaker 1: a Thomas Nast illustration. Any time you think of nineteenth

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Speaker 1: century UM political cartoons, what you're envisioning as a Thomas

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Speaker 1: Nast illustration or Uncle Sam? It depends one. I always

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Speaker 1: think of his UM flag, Thomas flag. I can't remember

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Speaker 1: his name anyway, he was the one who painted that

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Speaker 1: I want you, Uncle Sam. Yeah, but Nasa is the

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Speaker 1: one who popularized the first images of Uncle Sam's that right. Well,

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Speaker 1: Uncle Sam was around him he was. He was the

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Speaker 1: one who first put him in like a star spangled

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Speaker 1: suit and made him tall and gaunt, model after Abraham Lincoln.

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Speaker 1: But Uncle Sam was, if I may uh. He was

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Speaker 1: possibly named after a guy named Samuel Wilson, not Abrahamson

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Speaker 1: no Ok, who was a meat packer from Troy, New York,

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Speaker 1: UH in the early nineteenth century, and who was who

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Speaker 1: got a great reputations being very honest, and so he

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Speaker 1: got a government contract to send meat provisions to the

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Speaker 1: troops UH during the War of eighteen twelve, and these

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Speaker 1: crates would come arrive stamped us, and the troops came

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Speaker 1: to mention that this was a quol Sam or Uncle

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Speaker 1: Sam Wilson, which came to be a symbol for the

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Speaker 1: United States as a whole, and they were providing Uncle

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Speaker 1: Sam's brotting food for the soldiers. In their minds, yes,

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Speaker 1: it's nice. Nothing but horse me in. Santa Claus, the

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Speaker 1: modern Santa Claus as we know him, was sort of

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Speaker 1: captured by a Nast as well as that, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you got a story there, I do think so people

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Speaker 1: say that Thomas Nast invented Santa Claus, and that is

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Speaker 1: it's pretty close. There was St. Nick was since your clause,

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Speaker 1: there was all these these conceptions of Santa Claus based

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Speaker 1: around St. Nick. Thomas Nast was the one who associated St. Nick,

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Speaker 1: who still today in Germany. He's honored. He has a

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Speaker 1: day on December six where people give one another gifts,

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Speaker 1: but it's not Christmas. Thomas Nast took the gift giving

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Speaker 1: idea associated with St. Nick, put it to Christmas for

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Speaker 1: Harper's and then added the elves as well. So the

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Speaker 1: whole idea of Santa Claus coming and bringing gifts was

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Speaker 1: Thomas Nast. Yeah, like eighteen sixty two, I believe, for

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Speaker 1: the cover of Harper's Weekly, Thank you Thomas Nast. And

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Speaker 1: then by eighteen eighty one he was fat and jolly

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Speaker 1: thinks that Thomas Nast as well? How is this Santa

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Speaker 1: gonna be lean and mean? Yeah, he was a little

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Speaker 1: skinny and it's off putting to see a skinny Santa

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Speaker 1: Clause earlier ones. All right, well you spilled the beans

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Speaker 1: on that spoiler. Harper's Weekly was where Nast worked for

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Speaker 1: twenty four years from eighteen sixty two to eighteen eighty six,

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Speaker 1: and um, that is where he made his name, like

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Speaker 1: big time. He was influential. He was countrywide famous. I

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Speaker 1: don't know about world famous. I don't know if a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of people were world famous at the time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's definitely like a household name, I think. Yeah, he

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Speaker 1: was a rock star. This is when a political cartoon

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Speaker 1: really meant something and actually held sway in elections. Not

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Speaker 1: so today. Yeah, because you know, so many people were illiterate,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of unfortunate, because Thomas Nast drew in

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Speaker 1: a time where you could draw a bunch of stuff

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Speaker 1: and be like, oh, this doesn't make any sense, and

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Speaker 1: just put labels on him. Apparently you can label absolutely everything.

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Speaker 1: It's like, okay, this tree. Sometimes he would come to

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Speaker 1: your house and explain it to you if you still

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Speaker 1: didn't get well. And I mentioned wood cut these. Uh,

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Speaker 1: he did not draw these in pen and ink until later,

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Speaker 1: which would end up being his undoing. We'll get to that.

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Speaker 1: But he actually carved these things. That's how they printed these.

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Speaker 1: These are carvings. It's amazing, especially when you look at

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Speaker 1: the detail. It's a striking Josh, I agree. I didn't

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Speaker 1: realize there are wood carvings until about thirty minutes ago,

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Speaker 1: so you're still reeling. Yeah, I'm a little I'm still queasy.

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Speaker 1: I still have the taste of vomit in my mouth.

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Speaker 1: All right. So, politically speaking, Nast was a Republican, but

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Speaker 1: Republicans at the time aren't exactly what we might think

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Speaker 1: of today. It was a shift over the years. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that many people know this. It's a big eye open anything.

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Speaker 1: It's like learning in eighth grade that, um, the United

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Speaker 1: States like pretty much brought genocide down on Indians in America,

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Speaker 1: you know, like learning like, wait, what are you talking about? Like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are cowboys and stuff, but what do you mean

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Speaker 1: the same thing with this, Like that Republican and Democrat

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Speaker 1: is fluid term, but really it's like conservative and liberal

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Speaker 1: or the two opposing forces at all times. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: a good way to put it. Actually, And at the time,

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Speaker 1: I guess Republicans were very much socially liberal and he

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Speaker 1: was on board with that and ended up having problems

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Speaker 1: with his own party because of that, which influenced his cartoons.

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Speaker 1: We calling cartoons, I think, yeah, political cartoons. It's a

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Speaker 1: it's an acceptable term. So donkey should we start there? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the donkey first came about in eighteen seventy, was the

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Speaker 1: first time the donkey made its appearance, and that was

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Speaker 1: in uh and I have these printed out too. That

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Speaker 1: was this one right here. The copper Head Northern Democrats

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Speaker 1: were called copper Head Democrats opposed the Civil War, and

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Speaker 1: he thought they were racists. Well that's what Sam calls them.

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Speaker 1: Well that's what NAS thought of them, though, right right,

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Speaker 1: But I think that they I think that that's over

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Speaker 1: that's an overbroad description. I think that the copper Head

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Speaker 1: Democrats were made up of like there were the crux

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Speaker 1: of the peace movement, right they also basically they were

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Speaker 1: made up of people who said it's unconstitutional to force

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Speaker 1: a country together for one part of it wants to secede.

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Speaker 1: There were a lot of different voices, but yes, they

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Speaker 1: were very powerful, and Nast definitely opposed them for sure.

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Speaker 1: And the copper Head is a snake, in case you

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Speaker 1: didn't know that, So it's definitely a derogatory term, deadly snake.

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Speaker 1: It is a deadly snake that we have right here

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Speaker 1: in Georgia. Uh So, in eighteen seventy the he showed

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Speaker 1: that the donkey kicking a dead lion the donkey, and

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Speaker 1: like you said, he would just literally label them. He

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Speaker 1: would write words on the body of the animals saying

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Speaker 1: this is what this is. Uh, no subtext. The donkey

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Speaker 1: was the copper Head Press, which was he was taking

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Speaker 1: a jab at the press, not necessarily the party. And

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Speaker 1: then the lion was Edwin and Stanton Lincoln, Secretary of War.

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Speaker 1: It was dead and dead in the photo and it

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Speaker 1: looks like there's a little eagle looking on even like

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Speaker 1: what are you doing? But the eagles not labels. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's the capital in the background. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think so. So yeah, he he would just write on it,

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Speaker 1: like on the side of the donkey it says copper

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Speaker 1: Head Press and it looks like have you heard of

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Speaker 1: I think his name is Vim vander Wall or something

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Speaker 1: like that. He he came up with the cloaca machine.

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Speaker 1: He's an artist from the Netherlands. Uh. He has has

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Speaker 1: like this whole exhibit where he like tattoos pigs really yeah,

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Speaker 1: and like like elaborate tattoos and it looks a lot

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Speaker 1: like this. I really like the woodcut or just that

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Speaker 1: style that like the donkey having writing on the side

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Speaker 1: of it. Okay, I got you, it's been graffito. So

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Speaker 1: that is um. That was the first appearance of the donkey. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The next one was in eighteen seven, be four, when

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Speaker 1: Republican Ulysses s Grant Ulysses was vying for a potential

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Speaker 1: third term, which freaked a lot of people out right. Well,

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Speaker 1: he freaked people out twice. Did he try to do

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Speaker 1: that twice? Well, they tried to get him to run

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Speaker 1: for a third consecutive term in eighteen seventy six, but

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Speaker 1: he pooh pooed it. But then he went and traveled

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Speaker 1: abroad and came back and said, I'm a better man.

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Speaker 1: I think I could be president for a third time,

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Speaker 1: third non consecutive term in eight Yeah, which is why

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Speaker 1: that that this third term panic. The eighteen seventy four

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Speaker 1: cartoon was when people were like, well, he can't. You

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Speaker 1: can't have a three term president, even though you could constitutionally,

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Speaker 1: that's right. So if you look at this one, this

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Speaker 1: one is like, this is crazy. This looks like a

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Speaker 1: Grateful Dead album cover or something. It's got a donkey

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Speaker 1: in sheep's clothing labeled Caesarism, obviously referencing Julius Caesar is

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Speaker 1: some mad, power hungry tyrant. And then there's all sorts

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Speaker 1: of other stuff going on, and we'll get to the

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Speaker 1: as the elephant plays a part in this one as well.

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Speaker 1: I like the giraffe a lot on that one. It

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Speaker 1: was kind of up where he looks like he's wearing

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Speaker 1: a vest. Yeah, he's wearing some sort of a suit.

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Speaker 1: Giraffe in a suit. And that was called third term Panic. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But again, even though he was symbolizing the Democratic Press

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Speaker 1: mainly with the donkey, it's sort of stuck is the

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Speaker 1: Democratic Party even though that wasn't in his original intent?

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Speaker 1: Is that right? Um? I don't know. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if like he I don't think he originally intended it,

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Speaker 1: but I think over time he just came to see

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Speaker 1: it as I think it. Yeah, popularly was picked up

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Speaker 1: and kind of forced him to use it later on.

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Speaker 1: You know. But even though the Democrats still haven't, that's

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Speaker 1: not their uh their symbol officially, they've never adopted the

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Speaker 1: brain jackasses their official party symbol. I wonder why, although

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Speaker 1: the Republicans have they've adopted their symbol. That's true. But

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Speaker 1: there there's some stuff in that third Term Panic thing,

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Speaker 1: um that kind of pops up that was clear really

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Speaker 1: important to Nast, Like inflation. There's like a plank he

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Speaker 1: wrote inflation on. So apparently at the time there was

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Speaker 1: a big struggle going on about abandoning the gold standard,

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Speaker 1: or printing um as much silver as you wanted, or

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Speaker 1: issuing paper so you could basically cause inflation so people

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Speaker 1: could pay off their debts so they could buy stuff

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Speaker 1: more cheaply, that kind of thing. And apparently Nast opposed

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Speaker 1: that the inflation because that's like a plank that's broken

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Speaker 1: over this pit. That the elephant the Republican vote, I

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Speaker 1: think is what it is. Chaos, Right, there's chaos because

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Speaker 1: farmers can pay their bills kind of thing. So he

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Speaker 1: was like, he was definitely a social liberal, but I

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Speaker 1: get from this that he was also not a populist,

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Speaker 1: Like I think he liked people in theory but not

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Speaker 1: in practice. Right, And then you know this is important

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Speaker 1: because he was a guy who only drew what he

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Speaker 1: believed in, which would also further prove to be his

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Speaker 1: undoing later on. Yeah, but you gotta take your hat

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Speaker 1: off to somebody like that. You know, Well, he'd made

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Speaker 1: his name. I guess he was like, do you know

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Speaker 1: who I am? I'm the nasty man. I'm not gonna

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Speaker 1: draw anything I don't believe in. Uh so, what where

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Speaker 1: are we here? There was another example, um, a presidential

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Speaker 1: candidate grabbing a donkey labeled Democratic Party by the tail. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so that was Thomas F. Bayard. Yeah, and he was

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Speaker 1: grabbing it by the tail. He was actually one of

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Speaker 1: those guys who fought to repeal, um the issuance of

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Speaker 1: paper money legal tender that doesn't really mean anything, rather

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Speaker 1: than use gold. And so I guess Nasty approved of him,

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Speaker 1: even though he's a Democrat. And that's this one right here,

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Speaker 1: right yeah, And that's uh, he's he's trying to keep

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Speaker 1: the donkey from finding falling into a pit another pit

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Speaker 1: labeled financial chaos. It's very popular motif at the time,

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Speaker 1: I guess. And then in the background of this one

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Speaker 1: you do see the dead Republican Party elephant with is

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Speaker 1: that Lincoln hovering above him? Probably I think Nas kind

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Speaker 1: of had a thing for for Lincoln had a thing

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Speaker 1: for him. It's strictly in an idol way with an Oh,

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Speaker 1: so that is the donkey That fairly summarized how it

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Speaker 1: got started. Yeah, like you said, I mean he started

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Speaker 1: just kind of using it and associating it with the

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Speaker 1: Copperhead Democrats, Democratic Press, and then ultimately people just said, well,

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Speaker 1: I can't read, but I see that you're making fun

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Speaker 1: of the Democrats, and that's the donkeys. So the Democrats

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Speaker 1: are donkeys, and I said, okay, we'll go with that.

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Speaker 1: Oh and also, by the way, the Wizard of Oz

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Speaker 1: apparently is a popular allegory for UM politics at the time,

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Speaker 1: including that whole gold standard abandonment. Was it meant to be? It? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Frank Baum, who who wrote it was a political writer

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Speaker 1: UM for many many years before he wrote it. And

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Speaker 1: the gold the yellow brick road is the gold standard.

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Speaker 1: And then Dorothy's shoes originally were silver, not ruby, and

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Speaker 1: so silver and gold was a call out to this

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Speaker 1: UM free silver idea of printing sixteen silver coins to

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Speaker 1: every gold coin printed to make money cheaper and abundant. Right,

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Speaker 1: So interesting, a lot of a lot of subtle stuff

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Speaker 1: going on in the late nineteenth century. You know, Well,

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Speaker 1: they're way more obvious now, I guess because they can be. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: at least we don't label our political cartoons as much.

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Speaker 1: It's still a tradition that's upheld. It is. You just

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Speaker 1: don't see words all over the place. I don't read

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Speaker 1: a lot of political cartoons anymore. To you I just

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Speaker 1: don't run into him very often, but I almost always

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Speaker 1: enjoy him when I do upentially that Mike Luckovich guy,

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Speaker 1: he is good. He is a local boy too, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: luck of it just good. You know, I'm a big

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Speaker 1: family Circus fan. Yeah, that's rarely political. You know when

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Speaker 1: Jeffy like tracks a month through the through the House

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Speaker 1: and it's like, Jeffy, have you seen the altered version

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Speaker 1: of those? There's altered versions of everything. These are pretty funny.

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Speaker 1: They're really really dirty, but they're funny. Dirty is not there?

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Speaker 1: Or they just like um filthy? Yeah they felt okay, alright,

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Speaker 1: So moving on to the elephant. Uh, this was Nast's party,

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Speaker 1: the Republicans at the time, so obviously his cartoons about

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Speaker 1: the elephant are going to be more positive, I guess,

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Speaker 1: or sad. Yeah, true, like the dying elephant. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: think he probably intuitively knew the elephants mourn they're dead,

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Speaker 1: which makes you sad when you think about elephants, which

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Speaker 1: is why you choose the elephant. I wonder if he

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Speaker 1: knew that. I don't think you did. That's appropriate though,

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Speaker 1: before he actually ever, it keeps saying penned in here,

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Speaker 1: but carved his first elephant. Um. It was used twice before,

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Speaker 1: once in eighteen sixty four, uh, in a Lincoln campaign

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Speaker 1: literature piece, and then in eighteen seventy two by Harper's

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Speaker 1: but it wasn't until eighteen seventy four that he used it,

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Speaker 1: So I can imagine the Lincoln use of it was

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Speaker 1: very intended to be derogatory. Yeah, probably all jackasses. So

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Speaker 1: that's uh or turn panic. The one we already talked

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Speaker 1: about was the first Um Republican elephant that he had carved. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but the first appearance of the Republican elephant and the

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Speaker 1: Democratic um donkey together as the as those two is

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Speaker 1: the representative the whole party was the Stranger Things Have

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Speaker 1: Happened cartoon where he's got the donkey by the tail.

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Speaker 1: As far as I know, it's the first. That's what

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Speaker 1: that one was called, Stranger Things have Happened. Uh. In

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Speaker 1: eighteen seventy six, there was one called the Political Situation.

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Speaker 1: Pretty straight up, Uncle Sam is confused. He is labeled

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Speaker 1: the vote of the people, and there's a two headed

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Speaker 1: elephant choosing to decide which road Democratic road of the

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Speaker 1: Republican road to go down. That's fairly self explanatory. I

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Speaker 1: think it is, but it's also kind of confusing because

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Speaker 1: Uncle Sam's confused. So as he's saying the Republicans can

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Speaker 1: go one of two ways at the time, Well, no,

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Speaker 1: because there it's two headed, so I would imagine it

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Speaker 1: was it's more representative of the two already system. I

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Speaker 1: think Nasty was pretty drunk that day, So, uh, what

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Speaker 1: else do we have here? Um? There was the oh

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Speaker 1: my favorite, I haven't seen it yet. Did you print

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Speaker 1: it out? The one with the tombstone? No, I couldn't

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Speaker 1: find that one. I thought this was very um sweet,

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Speaker 1: but nasty. Apparently, when Rutherford B. Hayes uh ran for

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Speaker 1: president he won the eight seventy six election, that um

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Speaker 1: that Grant didn't go for the third term four right,

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Speaker 1: and Hayes apparently said that he would only run once.

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Speaker 1: And I guess he wasn't a very well like guy

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Speaker 1: because he was one of those presidents who won through

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Speaker 1: the electoral vote but lost the popular vote, and apparently

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Speaker 1: lost the popular vote pretty bad, and so his whole

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Speaker 1: presidency was in no way, shape or form a mandate.

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Speaker 1: It was it was very representative of the fact that

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Speaker 1: this country, our country was still very much torn apart

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Speaker 1: from the Civil War, and so nas created this cartoon

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Speaker 1: where this um elephant that Sam describes as bruised and

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Speaker 1: battered is crouching down at a tombstone of the Democratic Party,

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Speaker 1: which I thought was pretty cool because it's like he

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Speaker 1: had the sense that there was still, no matter how

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Speaker 1: um acrimonious things got, that these two parties were still

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Speaker 1: American parties, that there's still a whole wild world out

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Speaker 1: there for us to hate, and why are we hating

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Speaker 1: each other? You know, Yeah, that's sort of a nice sentiment. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I don't want to characterize nastas uh an isolationists

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Speaker 1: or even a nativist, like he had one of his

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Speaker 1: Uncle Sam paintings or I'm sorry carvings. Was um Uncle

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Speaker 1: Sam and Columbia right Liberty uh hosting a Thanksgiving dinner

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Speaker 1: with all the peoples of the world, which included some

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Speaker 1: Chinese people, some um black people, some Native American Indians, uh,

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Speaker 1: and uh a host of others, but not the Irish.

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Speaker 1: I don't think the Irish were president. But it was

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Speaker 1: like it's world or suffrage for all, you know, equality

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Speaker 1: for everyone in the world. Come on, comal, you're all invited.

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Speaker 1: It was pretty cool. He's definitely not a bigot, as

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Speaker 1: far as I could tell you, it does seemed like it. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So you know what standpoints out is it? And it's true.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of striking that a hundred and fifty years

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Speaker 1: after this or so, that these are still the symbols.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the Republicans officially adopted the elephant. But he

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Speaker 1: points out that a lot of that was due to

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Speaker 1: just how influential and popular Nast was at the time.

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Speaker 1: It just became part of the national fabric because of him.

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Speaker 1: There was some good quotes about him after well, while

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Speaker 1: he's working. Even apparently, Um Abraham Lincoln called Nasta's quote

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Speaker 1: best recruiting sergeant during the eighteen sixty four re election.

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Speaker 1: And this is while he was traveling around the country heckling, Uh,

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Speaker 1: what's his name? Oh, Stephen, it's not Stephen Decatur. What

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Speaker 1: was that guy's name? I don't know. We'll go with

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Speaker 1: Ambrose Beers, even though it's not right. I can't believe

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Speaker 1: we don't remember that guy's name. I know, my head

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Speaker 1: is just bulging. Uh. Mark Twain said that Nast won

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Speaker 1: a prodigious victory for grant I mean, for civilization in progress.

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Speaker 1: It's Mark Twain for you. What a guy. He can

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Speaker 1: turn it price. So he Um, you said that he

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Speaker 1: kind of gave up his UH career in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways by being stubborn as a donkey. Yeah. Um.

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Speaker 1: Especially he was apparently in very good with Fletcher Harper,

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00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 1: who founded Harper's Weekly. Um, do you read Harper's. No,

423
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 1: it's monthly, it's Lewis Lapham just left and I got

424
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: into it right before he left, and I got sucked

425
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 1: into Harper's and then he left, and now I'm like,

426
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 1: it's just not is good? Why Why did this happen

427
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 1: to me? Why does everything bad happen to me? But

428
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: it's still it's very good. And it's been around since

429
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 1: the mid nineteenth century, which is pretty impressive for a magazine,

430
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: and endured endors. But Junior came aboard and UM didn't

431
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 1: really side with um. Thomas nast right, Yeah, I mean

432
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 1: Na's had a lot of freedom under under Fletcher Harper,

433
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: but Joe Jr. Kind of tightened down the ranks, and

434
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 1: it's like, hey, man, don't be so square. People want

435
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: to be entertained. So there was a bit of a

436
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: shift and UH in in the the way American public

437
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: wanted to you know, what they wanted to read in magazines,

438
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 1: and then uh, people wanted to not be bothered anymore. Yeah,

439
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: they were stick of it. So the other death Noel though,

440
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,479
Speaker 1: was was they went to photochemical reproduction and they didn't

441
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 1: do the woodblock cuttings anymore. And apparently woodblock, even though

442
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,199
Speaker 1: I mean it looks to me like incredibly detailed, it

443
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: gives you a lot of leeway to make mistakes that

444
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 1: you don't get with pen and ink and paper. So

445
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: his shortcomings all of a sudden stood out. They're like,

446
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: this guy kind of sucks. It's just it's just not

447
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: true Santa Claus. Yeah, so he he ended up like, um,

448
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,199
Speaker 1: penniless as you as you love the term, Um, I

449
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: do you don't you love the term penniless. I was

450
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: listening to an old podcast and you're like, I hate

451
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: that term. It's so no. One doesn't happen. He does

452
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: the Niagara Falls one. She's I need to lighten up

453
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: back then. Huh. But anyway, he was very much broke

454
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 1: um and he tried to He tried to open his

455
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:44,679
Speaker 1: own uh paper, Nast Weekly, which lasted six months, and

456
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: luckily he had a friend in Teddy Roosevelt, right, yeah,

457
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: and he he appointed him to Council General to Ecuador

458
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,120
Speaker 1: and NASA. I guess it's like, all right, I guess

459
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 1: I'll go to Ecuador. It's because there's money there, because

460
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: I'm Penniless's better than doing nothing. And it actually was

461
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: not better than doing nothing, because he got yellow fever

462
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 1: there and died six months later. Yeah. Uh so that's

463
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: a pretty weird end of that guy, if you ask me,

464
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: But it was. He was sixty two and at the

465
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: turn of the last last century, the last last turn

466
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: of the century. He uh, sixty two is not bad.

467
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,719
Speaker 1: It's a pretty good run for back then, especially being

468
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 1: a household name wentce your celebrities over. You might as well,

469
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 1: I mean, you're dead anyway, and that just hasn't You

470
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: haven't actually died yet, but you might as well be,

471
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 1: you know. So there you go, the donkey and the

472
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,719
Speaker 1: the elephant. If if you feel like we've explained this,

473
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: if you now understand it and gotten to the bottom

474
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: of it, you were not paying attention because it's still

475
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: as convoluted as ever. It's not all that's all from that. Well,

476
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: don't you wish though that there was like some sort

477
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: of like, oh, here's the reason why he chose the donkey. Oh,

478
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 1: of course he would choose an elephant. It's totally intuitive. No,

479
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: it's the ramblings of a madman. You used to carve

480
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 1: stuff into woodblocks and Fletcher Harper published it for the

481
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: consumption of everybody else. But now you know, knowing is

482
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 1: half the battle the track. So if you want to

483
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: learn more about Thomas Nast, if you want to read

484
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: one of the extraordinarily rare Samuel Abramson articles on the site,

485
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: you can type in the words why are a donkey

486
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: and an elephant the symbols of the Democratic and Republican

487
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: parties question mark. You could probably also just type in

488
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: donkey and elephant and it will bring it up. So

489
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: h I think I said that you should type it

490
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: into the search bar, and if I didn't, you should

491
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: type it into the search bar at how stuffworks dot com.

492
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: Since I said that, it's time now for listener mail.

493
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: Josh Bison feedback from Canada Burlington, Ontario, specifically, guys, your

494
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: recent Bison podcast put me uh in mind one of

495
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: the coolest experiences of my life when I lived out

496
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: in Alberta, I'd often go hiking and Elk Island National Park.

497
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: I was halfway around one of the parks longer trails

498
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: one day when I looked down, I saw a fresh

499
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: buffalo chip. What's that is? Scat? As I pondered what

500
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: this meant, I heard a snort and about ten to

501
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: fifteen meters in front of me, which is a length

502
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: that I don't understand. It's roximately okay, it was ards okay,

503
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: I get yards. Uh ten to fifteens in front of

504
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: me was a bison. I froze. I was alone, hadn't

505
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: seen another soul on the trail. I knew roughly eight

506
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:46,959
Speaker 1: kilometers whatever that is from the road, I'm sorry, from

507
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: the trailhead in either direction, and I knew uh. This

508
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 1: animal decided to charge, I was as good as dead,

509
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: and we stared each other down for a few minutes.

510
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: I don't know what was going through its mind, but

511
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: I was weighing my options. If I turned around and

512
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: it decided at a charge, I might not hear it

513
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: coming and wouldn't be able to take evasive action. If

514
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: I went forward, I might provoke it and be in

515
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: deep troubled. I knew I couldn't stay there all day,

516
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: so I decided to take a single step towards it.

517
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: To Gage's response, good move, I think. I moved towards it.

518
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 1: It gave a snort and turned its head away from

519
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: me and ran into the woods to my right. Very cool,

520
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: I thought, No sooner had I thought that. Then from

521
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: my left came a thundering herd of bison stampeding across

522
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: the trail. There must have been twenty to thirty of

523
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: them running in front of me, following their lookout. That

524
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: was a scout, I guess, into the forest. I stood there, utterly,

525
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: all struck for several minutes before I decided to move

526
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: forward to where they had just been. For the next

527
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes, everywhere, I bet. For the next fifteen minutes

528
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: or so, I kept looking over my shoulder just in

529
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: case they were hiding behind a tree, ready to pounce

530
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: on me like a giant cartoon kangaroo. Interesting imagination. So

531
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: they didn't pounce. He made it back say, and he

532
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: just says, if anyone finds himself in this situation, probably

533
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: won't happen. Don't do what I did. I got lucky.

534
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: These are wild animals, not petting zoo bison. I could

535
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,479
Speaker 1: have easily been trampled and left to die. So that

536
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: is Gordon C from Burlington, Ontario, Canada. Weird weird ending there.

537
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: He doesn't give any any suggestions of what to do. No,

538
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: but he did say that it was the most amazing

539
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: experience of his life, seeming the thundering herd of bison

540
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: right in front of him. I will bet I thought

541
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: it was pretty cool. Yeah. Um, I want to add

542
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: something from the Bison podcast. We got a tweet from

543
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: some guy recently was saying, hey, I was really disappointed

544
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: you guys used the word Indian instead of Native American.

545
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, yeah, that's a smart guy. Well,

546
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: how about I provide you with the link to an

547
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: article that has a poll that shows that in clear

548
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: for of all Indian Native American Indians, UM prefer the

549
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: term Indian over Native American, prefer Native American, and then

550
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: like six percent or whatever the rest is prefer something else.

551
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: Don't call me, I'll call you all right. So the

552
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: the not a majority, but very close to it for

553
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 1: Indian over Native Americans. So chew on that pal. We

554
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: were doing something right for once, and he goes, no,

555
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 1: I'm talking about people from India are offended by that

556
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: like me, And I was like, oh, you're to handle

557
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: is Sanjay something? And I haven't responded yet, but I

558
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: hadn't considered that. Yeah, I knew we were doing right

559
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: by Indians of North America, but I hadn't considered how

560
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: Indians of India also known as Asian Indians felt about it.

561
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: And I'm curious to know. So I would like to

562
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: hear from everybody, uh, if from Asian Indians and North

563
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: American Indians. And I'm sure I'm just like offending everybody

564
00:32:58,040 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: in any way, shape or form right now, but like

565
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: figure out how to establish this. I want to know,

566
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: how do you consider that either? And even if you're

567
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: not Asian Indian or American Indian, yes, uh, we want

568
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: to hear from you. If you have a good suggestion

569
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: to about how to end this conundrum. Uh, you can

570
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: tweet to us like Sanjay did at s Y s

571
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: K podcast. Um, you can uh go to Facebook also

572
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: known as the the fifty thousand at Facebook dot com,

573
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: slash stuff you Should Know, and you can send us

574
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: a plain old fashioned email at Stuff podcast at how

575
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Be sure to check out our

576
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: new video podcast Stuff from the future. Join how Stuff

577
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: Work staff as we explore the most promising and perplexing

578
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: possibilities of tomorrow, brought to you by the reinvented two

579
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: thousand twelve Camray. It's ready, are you