1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: High family Secrets listeners, it's Danny here to share something 2 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: I think is really special. After two decades of working 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: in production and being behind the camera, Kimmy Culp felt 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: it was time to share what she had learned. As 5 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: a producer. She would travel around the country talking to 6 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: complete strangers and they would tell her their hard truths, 7 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: and what she came to realize is that she was 8 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: asking people to do something that she was not willing 9 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: to do herself. Jimmy was diagnosed with bipolar disorder at nineteen. 10 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: On the inside, Kimmy says her brain was on fire. 11 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: She decided it was best to keep it a secret. 12 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: Over the past twenty four years, she has told only 13 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: a handful of people until now. While bipolar disorder is 14 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: something Kimmy had to learn how to live with, it's 15 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 1: also the thing that inspired her to create All the Wiser. 16 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: All the Wiser is a place where you'll hear stories 17 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: of people just like you, confronted with extreme adversity and 18 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: the wisdom they gained on the other side. Maylie Chapin 19 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: was trapped in a hotel room for seventeen hours in 20 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 1: Nairobi while al Shabab terrorists attacked the property. She was 21 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: alone and certain she was going to die, but through 22 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: the incredible efforts of brave men who fought to recover 23 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: Maine and extract her to safety, she survived. However, after 24 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: the attack, PTSD left her mind shattered. She felt like 25 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: a fraction of the strong, confident, capable woman she used 26 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: to be. She thought she was uniquely traumatized and couldn't 27 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 1: understand why she was unable to leave her apartment. But 28 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: Mayllie did find a light at the end of the tunnel. 29 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: She shares her experience of healing from PTSD, as well 30 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: as thoughts and strategies to help anyone suffering from trauma 31 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 1: to find hope and relief. All the wiser It donates 32 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: two thousand dollars every episode to a non profit making 33 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: a difference in the world. This episode benefits the Heroic 34 00:01:51,000 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: Parts Project I Hope you enjoy it. Into thousand nineteen, 35 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: Maine Chapin traveled on a work trip to Nairobi. She 36 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 1: was young and working for Google on the marketing team. 37 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: She was there on a trip to understand digital well being. 38 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 1: Americans were having a conflicted relationship with their phones, starting 39 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: to feel addictive and unhealthy. People in Nairobi had a 40 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: healthier relationship, and Malee was there to try and understand why. 41 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 1: Malee was only supposed to be in Kenya for two days, 42 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: and on the second day she crawled into our hotel 43 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: bed for a midday power nap. She was woken up 44 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: by a huge explosion. A suicide bomber had detonated his 45 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: vest in the hotel courtyard. You know, if you can 46 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: imagine the horror that you would be looking down on, 47 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 1: there were pieces of the suicide bomber, There was smoke, 48 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: there was blood. It was it was horrific. I'm not 49 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: sure of a word that is powerful enough. Maine looked 50 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 1: out the window and saw men with a K forty seven's. 51 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: They were firing rounds and walking into the hotel lobby. 52 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,959 Speaker 1: It was a terrorist attack and they were there to kill. 53 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: She could hear the gunshots as they moved in closer, 54 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 1: both above and below her. And for seventeen hours, Maine 55 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,119 Speaker 1: was trapped in her hotel room, certain she was going 56 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: to die, a feeling that would continue even after her 57 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: rescue and a return home to the safety of her family. 58 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: There would be things that would remind me very vividly 59 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: of the attack like the sound of a fire alarm 60 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: or the sound of a firework, and I would like 61 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: hit the floor in the fetal position, shaking and crying. 62 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: Today on the show, how do we process trauma and 63 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: how do we heal from it? What are some of 64 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: the solutions and tools for people living with PTSD on 65 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: a daily basis? I'm can make called and this is 66 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: All the Wiser, a show about hope and possibility on 67 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: the other side of pain. I remember very distinctly, actually 68 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: this moment on my couch. I was living in California 69 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 1: working at Google, and I remember sitting on my couch 70 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 1: in California and thinking, I think I was wrong. You know, 71 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 1: I think this is what life is. It's about getting 72 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 1: to the point where you have a steady income and 73 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: you're going to get to marry the love of your 74 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: life and you can pay your bills. And you know, 75 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: I don't know why I feel like something's missing. I 76 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: need to accept that that this is sort of the 77 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,559 Speaker 1: pinnacle of my life and and this is the state 78 00:04:57,640 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: that it will continue to exist in, and I need 79 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: to stop looking for this missing piece, because you know what, 80 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: what more could somebody ask for? Towards the end, of 81 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen, Maine was at a point in her 82 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: life that most no well that longing question of purpose, 83 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: but she had interesting work and an opportunity for an 84 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: exciting work project in Nairobi. She booked her trip using 85 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: Google's travel portal and sort of waited it out to 86 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 1: see if anyone would contact her about security, but she 87 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: didn't hear anything. The only thing she had was Google's 88 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: international security number saved in her speed dial from her 89 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: last work trip to China, but this time for Kenya, 90 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: there was no safety briefing, which left her with a 91 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: lot of questions. So all I talked to some of 92 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: my colleagues at Google and said, you know, to be honest, 93 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: I'm a little bit nervous. I'm I'm twenty six, I'm 94 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: traveling by myself as as the only Google employee. I 95 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: don't really know the protocol. Um am I supposed to 96 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: have a driver? Am I supposed to have like a 97 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: like a bodyguard or these dangerous areas? I really don't know. 98 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: And so they recommended that I reach out to the 99 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: security team and ask those questions. So I reached out 100 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: to Google's security team and I said, hey, you know, 101 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: these are my my details, and the External Research Agency 102 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: has uh some connections in Nairobi, and they recommended that 103 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: I stay at the Kimpinski Hotel, which is what I booked. Um, 104 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: anything that I need to know, need to do, need 105 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: to have, etcetera. They did book me a driver and 106 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: that driver had like a particular password so that I 107 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: could confirm that he was my driver once I landed 108 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: and he would be waiting for me at the airport. 109 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: And then they told me that they recommended that I 110 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 1: changed my hotel actually in addition to sending me a 111 00:06:52,600 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 1: short sort of security briefing document. In that short briefing document, um, 112 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: it basically boils down to, you know, for any Google 113 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: employee traveling to Airobi, like it wasn't specific to me, 114 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: the greatest threat to you is like traffic accident or 115 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: you know, a mugging. Um, So don't go down dark 116 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: galleys by yourself, don't be out at night by yourself, 117 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: things like that. And then there was one line that 118 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: said that there is a latent but credible threat of terrorism, 119 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: but overall the country was marked low risk and so 120 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: I didn't even think twice about it. And in that 121 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: short briefing document, They said that the Kimpinski didn't have 122 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: adequate setback from the road, and so they recommended that 123 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: I moved to a different hotel that was sort of 124 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: safety verified on their list, and that is how I 125 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: canceled that reservation and switched to the Deucit D two, 126 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: Which is funny because it's one of those moments you 127 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: look back on that it was so innocuous at the 128 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: time but changed the whole trajectory of my life. And 129 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: I should say this, this hotel is a five star hotel. 130 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: Presidents have stayed there, you know, dignitaries. This is a 131 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: really nice hotel, right that you're so, I would imagine 132 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: there was a certain sense of safety that you're staying 133 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: somewhere that dignitaries and you know, presidents have stayed in 134 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: the past. Both hotels, you know, the Conpenci and the 135 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: deu City two were known for being very very high end, 136 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: great accommodation hotels, as you said, where where people had stayed. 137 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: And I think that I did feel safe, but also 138 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: there's this inherent, sort of privileged concept of safety in 139 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 1: my head at that time. Right, I'm American, I'm traveling 140 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: with Google for a work trip, going to a five 141 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: star hotel. Right, they told me the worst thing that's 142 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 1: going to happen is I'll get in like a traffic 143 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: accident or someone will steal my laptop. Right. There was 144 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: some hubris to it, right, Like the the idea that 145 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: I could be in danger really just didn't penetrate my 146 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,839 Speaker 1: psyche at all at that time. And of course now 147 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: I know that because the hotels were so nice, that's 148 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: what makes them a target, right there, full of quote 149 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: unquote high value Western targets if you look at it 150 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 1: from the perspective of these extremist groups. So it's a 151 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: it's a crazy sort of alteration in my perspective, was 152 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: I was saying it right and referencing the people who 153 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: stay there and the fact that it's a five star. 154 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 1: I was thinking out loud about the presumption of that 155 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: that somehow that means you're safe or the property is 156 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: safe by virtue of those things. And fundamentally, and I guess, 157 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: thinking out loud, we should know that's not the case. 158 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: And your experience certainly validates that that is is not true. 159 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: And perhaps, as you said, um, you were much more 160 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: of a target. But but but I am very American. I 161 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: am curious about your conversation with the driver. Yeah, you know, 162 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: I think that you probably have painted a very good 163 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: picture of who I was. Hopefully for listeners, right, you 164 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:20,079 Speaker 1: can understand you've got this very inquisitive young woman who 165 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: really deeply wants to understand people's lives. That's that's still 166 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: my favorite activity. And so I was chatting with my 167 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: driver constantly, like how many kids do you have? What 168 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: is their schooling? Like, what's technology like in your life? 169 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: What kind of device do you have? Do you travel? Right? 170 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 1: Like I wanted to know everything about his life, and 171 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,839 Speaker 1: he was a really good sport about it, and we've 172 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: gotten in this conversation. The morning of the terrorist attack, 173 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: he was driving me to and from lunch, and he 174 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: was saying that it's difficult to live in a region 175 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: with a constant threat of terrorist activity. And I remember 176 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: being so struck by that, like shocked, and I'm sure 177 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,319 Speaker 1: that one line flitted across my mind latent but credible 178 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: threat of terrorism. And you know, I really wanted to 179 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: understand what he was talking about. And I was like, 180 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, I'm so embarrassed. I really don't know 181 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: the history here. Can you help me understand and you know, 182 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: he referenced Westgate Mall, which I knew somewhere in my 183 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: psyche was this horrific terrorist attack, but I didn't really 184 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 1: put together that that had been in Kenya and the 185 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: university that had been attacked as well. And he was saying, 186 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 1: you know, the threat is ever present because the Somalian 187 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 1: extremists are retaliating for Kenya's sort of activity in Somalia 188 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: trying to suppress the extremism, and so they target these 189 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: again quote unquote high value places in Kenya to inhibit 190 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: travel because that is really makes up so much of 191 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: the Kenyan economy, right, tourism, and if Westerners don't want 192 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: to come here because they're afraid of terrorism, then that 193 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: depletes the Kenyan economy as well as making the citizens 194 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: obviously extremely fearful. So I just remember thinking, like, I 195 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: don't know how you get out of bed and go 196 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: to work every day. It seems so terrifying, Like it 197 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: seems like it would the fear would paralyze you if 198 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: you felt like any moment, any day, any restaurant, any mall, 199 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 1: any any hotel, any you know, driving destination that you're 200 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: taking a client too, could be the next target. It 201 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 1: just seems so terrifying and to live in a constant 202 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: state of hyper vigilance, right and and have how heartbreaking 203 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: that is that subconsciously or consciously people are forced to 204 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,959 Speaker 1: live that that way day in and day out. Is 205 00:12:47,760 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: heartbreaking to think about. Yeah, So to the extent that 206 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: you're comfortable going back and revisiting, it was seventeen hours, 207 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 1: is that right? That's right? Yeah, for me, it was 208 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: seventeen hours starting at the beginning when you first hear 209 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: an explosion, and yeah, I have a lot of questions, sure, 210 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: but if you can start when you first heard the explosion. Yeah, 211 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: I was supposed to be at an interview with the 212 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: family in Nairobi when the attack unfolded, and unfortunately I 213 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: hadn't really properly understood the extent of like dead stop 214 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 1: traffic in Nairobi in the middle of the day, and 215 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: so I thought we were like thirty minutes from the 216 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 1: next interview after lunch, and in fact, we were two 217 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: solid hours from the interview because of the traffic. And 218 00:13:57,960 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: so I realized that we were going to be an 219 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: hour and a half late to what was slated to 220 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 1: be a two hour interview. And you know, at that 221 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:07,839 Speaker 1: point it just feels rude. I'm not going to walk 222 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: in with thirty minutes left and start asking my questions. 223 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: So I was like, okay, I'll let the research agency 224 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: handle that one without me, I guess, and I will 225 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 1: head back to the hotel and and try to get 226 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: a nap. Was really really jet lagged on on that 227 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: side of the planet, and we were all supposed to 228 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: get together for dinner that evening, and I figured I'd 229 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: get sort of the rundown then, so I asked my 230 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: driver to please take me back to the hotel instead, 231 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: and we did, and he dropped me at the front door. 232 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: And when you're walking into this hotel first, it might 233 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: be helpful for people to understand that it's a whole complex. 234 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: So there's sort of one way in that leads you 235 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: to not just the Deu City two, but also a 236 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: bank and a jewelry store and a bunch of office buildings, 237 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: So there's a whole complex back there. So you drive 238 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: sort of threw it and then up to what's sort 239 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: of like an awning where get dropped off, and then 240 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: there are metal detectors, so every time you come into 241 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: the hotel, you have to go through metal detectors, and 242 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: you know, hotel staff is out there working the metal detectors, 243 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: and I was, you know, chatting with them, and then 244 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: came through the lobby, waved to the folks at the 245 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: front desk, and went up to my room on the 246 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: third floor. And my room was very very close to 247 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: the elevators and the big stairwell that ran sort of 248 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: next to the elevators as well. And I went into 249 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: my room. And I was only scheduled to be in 250 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: Kenya for a total of two and a half days, 251 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 1: so this was my second day and I was going 252 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: to leave the next morning. I was supposed to fly 253 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: from there to South Africa. And I figured, well, I'm here, 254 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 1: I'll get all packed up, I'll put my things by 255 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: the door, and I'll take a nap, go to dinner, 256 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: and then get up in the morning and head out. 257 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: So I I crawled into the bed in the hotel 258 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: to take a nap, or try to take a nap, 259 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: and it really, you know, I don't know if I 260 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: sort of shore in this timeline in my head, but 261 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: it really felt like it was just about the moment 262 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: that my head hit the pillow, that this explosion shook 263 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: my world. It shook the building, it shook my bed, 264 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: it shook like me, like rattled my body. And it 265 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: is something that even to this day, even having written 266 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: a book about it, is very difficult for me to 267 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: put into words what it's like to have an explosion 268 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: that size go off that close to you in a 269 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: situation where you know that that should not be happening, right, 270 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: And I I knew instantly that basically that I was 271 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: in danger. There was no conscious thought. I just ran 272 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: to the window because I knew intuitively that the sound 273 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: had come from that direction. My window looked down on 274 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: the courtyard, and so I wrenched the curtains open, and 275 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: I looked down at this scene of horror, devastation. There's 276 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 1: not a word tragedy, and I do really remember that 277 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,679 Speaker 1: the only thing that my brain could compare it to 278 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: was a movie. I remember thinking, like, I don't know how, 279 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: but I'm looking at a movie set because it had 280 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: been a suicide bomber was what had happened. A suicide 281 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: bomber had detonated a suicide vest just there in the courtyard. 282 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,959 Speaker 1: And you know, if you can imagine the horror that 283 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: you would be looking down on there were pieces of 284 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:42,360 Speaker 1: the suicide bomber. There was smoke, there was blood, it 285 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: was it was horrific. I'm not sure of a word 286 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:51,919 Speaker 1: that is powerful enough. And I imagine your your brain 287 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,120 Speaker 1: has never seen that, it categorized it exactly so you're 288 00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:00,040 Speaker 1: trying to have an association or make meaning and it 289 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:04,959 Speaker 1: and it doesn't exist. It's exactly right. And that was 290 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 1: the feeling. I mean, like literally physically, I thought that 291 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: there was no way that my eyes were seeing what 292 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 1: what was in front of me. What happens next? I 293 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: imagine fight or flight, but what do you do next? 294 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: What happens next? The thing that triggered me to move 295 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: from the window was that I saw the gunman coming in. 296 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: So I saw two terrorists armed with a K forty 297 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: seven's walking through the courtyard and firing intermittently and um 298 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: into your hotel, into the building room, into the courtyard. 299 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:48,199 Speaker 1: Basically yeah. And I knew no conscious thought, but it 300 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: was like, you definitely don't want these men to look 301 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,719 Speaker 1: up and see you standing here, right, So I whipped 302 00:18:54,760 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: the curtains closed again. And that was the first moment 303 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 1: that like a thought really processed, which was these are 304 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: terrorists and I think I could only truly have that 305 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: thought because of the conversation I had had with my 306 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 1: driver literally that morning. These are terrorists, this is exactly 307 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: what he was talking about. They're here to kill us, 308 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: and so they will. That was literally the end of 309 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: the thought to me, Right, what am I going to do? 310 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: And so I thought, I've got to say goodbye of God, 311 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: to tell my parents and my fiance that I we'll 312 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: never see them again. So I ran for my phone's 313 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: I had two phones at that time, a work phone 314 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: and a personal phone, and as I mentioned, um, because 315 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: of that trip to China, I had the international emergency 316 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 1: Google hotline saved on my work phone, So from that 317 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: phone I started to connect to that number, and from 318 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: my personal phone, I texted my parents just saying there's 319 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 1: a terrorist attack on the hotel. I love you, and 320 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: I texted my fiance and I I remember this brief 321 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,679 Speaker 1: moment's probably a couple of seconds in reality, but it 322 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: felt like time slowed down, and I remember looking at 323 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: the screen and thinking like those words are so hollow. 324 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: In this moment that is so does not convey the 325 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: magnitude of how much I wish I was safely in 326 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 1: the arms of my fiance, you know, in the home 327 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,959 Speaker 1: of my parents safe having a conversation with them. You know, 328 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: all the millions of moments that I took for granted 329 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: my whole life. It was just it's just that I 330 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 1: only had two seconds to say something, and so that's 331 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 1: what I said. And so for my fiance, I just added, 332 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 1: I added like a modifier, you know, like I love 333 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: you so much or I love you more than anything. 334 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 1: And I sent it, and I thought, well, that is 335 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: my last act on this earth, Like, that's the last 336 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: thing I'll do is is say say my goodbyes to 337 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: my loved ones. And that was when the Google security 338 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: folks picked up and I started talking to them and 339 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: would be on and off on the phone with them 340 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: almost the entirety of the next seventeen hours. And you 341 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: on the phone Google Security reach or connect with a 342 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 1: woman named Melissa, and the role she played was so multifaceted, 343 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: right mentally, emotionally, tactically. So tell me you know about 344 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: that conversation. Well, first of all, you know what's happening 345 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: to you physically and emotionally, and then about connecting with 346 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 1: Melissa and how she starts to play a role in 347 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 1: this whole experience a pivotal role. Yeah, yeah, pivotal is yeah, 348 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: absolutely correct. Physically, what's happening in my body at that 349 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: time is actually I'm now. People will say it's not 350 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 1: just fight or flight, it's fight or flight or freeze, right, 351 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: And I was very much frozen to the spot. I 352 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: was so panicked. There was no conscious thought left for me. 353 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 1: It was like I said my goodbyes, and now I'm out. 354 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: I'm out of ideas, I'm out of thought. And so 355 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,159 Speaker 1: I was like physically rooted to this spot. I was 356 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 1: just standing there where I had picked up my phones 357 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 1: in the hotel room. You know, I wasn't I wasn't ducking, 358 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: but I could hear the gunshots. I could hear grenades outside, 359 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: and I knew that they'd be getting closer, right, that 360 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: the terrorists would be getting closer. And that's when I 361 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: just like the panic overtook me completely. It was like 362 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: I was able to get that one thing done, I 363 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 1: had to say my goodbyes, and then I was totally 364 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: victim to the panic. And I think that's because I 365 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: didn't know what to do, right, Like I had no 366 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: training for that kind of situation. I had no experience 367 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: with that kind of situation, and so I just remember 368 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 1: standing there and I remember thinking very explicitly that I'm 369 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: actually going to die before the terrorists get to my 370 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: room of a heart attack. Like my heart was pounding 371 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 1: so hard it was physically painful, and I was shaking. 372 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: My hands were shaking so badly it was difficult to 373 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: dial the phone. That was the thought. I remember being like, Wow, 374 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: I'm going to die, and in a way it felt 375 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 1: merciful to me. I was like, my heart is going 376 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: to give out, but at least then I won't be 377 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 1: violently murdered by strangers. So that's what I remember sort 378 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,199 Speaker 1: of feeling in my body and emotionally, I don't know 379 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: if it's truly sort of a first order emotion, but 380 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: I just felt terror. And I know that's perhaps apt 381 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: because I was in this terrorist situation to feel terror, 382 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: but it was a type of terror that I have 383 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 1: never felt before or since. Like, I can't explain what 384 00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: it's like to be standing there waiting for total strangers 385 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: to come end your life violently by yourself on the 386 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: other side of the world in a hotel, Like it's 387 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,959 Speaker 1: it's just I just wouldn't I wouldn't wish it on anyone. 388 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: I was. I was frozen with fear. Well, you're basically 389 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: a sitting duck, right, Eventually they're above you, there below you, 390 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: and they're there to kill They're there literally to kill you. Yeah, 391 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: And and you know, I remember moments later, I remember 392 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: having the thought that it was a good plan. Like 393 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 1: I was thinking about, oh, there's that one drive into 394 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,360 Speaker 1: the complex, and you know, we're all locked in our 395 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: hotel rooms, like on multiple stories of this building. Where 396 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: are we going to go? Right? And and I didn't 397 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: know how many of them there were, so it felt 398 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,959 Speaker 1: to me like there were fifty terrorists right like, for 399 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 1: all I knew, they had surrounded the building, they had 400 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: cut off the exits, they were coming systematically to go 401 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: through every door on every floor. I had no idea. 402 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: So yeah, it was very, very do deeply viscerally terrifying. 403 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: And Melissa is on the phone with you. What is 404 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: she advising guiding you to do? Because as we said, 405 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 1: she's truly your your lifeline, and as you said, you're frozen, 406 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,719 Speaker 1: so she's really giving you the directives exactly. And I 407 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: think the thing that is hard for me to put 408 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: into words about Melissa, is you said it well, that 409 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: sort of the relationship that we developed was very multifaceted, 410 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: and that was so important. She seemed to understand intuitively 411 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: that I was frozen on the spot, or at the 412 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: very least, that the first thing she needed to do 413 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: was give me like tangible action items. Right, So her 414 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 1: first goal was to make it look like no one 415 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: was inside the hotel room, so that if the terrorists 416 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 1: were coming by looking for, you know, signs of people 417 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: being inside, then ideally they're going to skip that room. 418 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: So she had me turn all my lights off, she 419 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: had me barricade the door with any furniture that I 420 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: could move to again hopefully prevent entry by the terrorists. 421 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: And then she had me look for a hiding spot, 422 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: and she was like, what is the best possible hiding 423 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: spot that you can think of inside of that room? 424 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:29,160 Speaker 1: And I remember feeling like like it was almost kind 425 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 1: of her to give me a task that I could 426 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: actually do, to give me away to hopefully contribute to 427 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 1: my own survival, right because I had gone from this 428 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: state of like completely frozen, there's nothing I can do 429 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: to like, Okay, there is something I can do. I 430 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 1: can find a really really good hiding spot, and I 431 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 1: have just enough cognitive capacity to do that with all 432 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: of the fear that I'm feeling, and so I it's 433 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 1: hard for people to picture sometimes, but basically, there was 434 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: like a vanity under the mirror in the bathroom, and 435 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: it had shelves and the bottom shelf had towels, and 436 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: so I pulled the towels out and I crushed myself 437 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,399 Speaker 1: my body sort of into this bottom shelf in what 438 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: might look like a sort of contorted, twisted version of 439 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: the fetal position, and I like, I really didn't fit, 440 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: I very much, barely fit, and I bruised, bruised a 441 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: lot of different parts of my body doing this, and 442 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 1: then I pulled the towels back in after me, so 443 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: that it just looked like a shelf with towels on it. 444 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: And what I remember thinking about that hiding spot was 445 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: that it didn't look like a person could fit there, 446 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: and so that's why I really liked it. And then 447 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: I was also sort of relying on this movie trivia 448 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: of like where do people usually hide? Oh, under the bed, 449 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:52,399 Speaker 1: in the closet, right, I don't want to be in 450 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: any of these stereotypical hiding places because those are too obvious, 451 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: So that that was what I went with. And then 452 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: some thing dawn's on you once you're in there. Yeah, 453 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: this is a moment I still think about all the time. 454 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: I crushed myself into this shelf and I pulled the 455 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: towels back in, and I have almost a small moment 456 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: of like victory, of like, there's no way, right, no 457 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: one could find me here. You'd have to be searching, methodically, 458 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: searching every single room, and and ideally you know they're 459 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: not doing that, so they'll never know I'm here. And 460 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: that thought ruined everything because it was immediately followed by 461 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,439 Speaker 1: if they come through my door, I barricaded it, and 462 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: so they absolutely know that someone is in this room, 463 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: and they will search it methodically until they find me. 464 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: And I was this like immediate overwhelming sense of hopelessness 465 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: of just like it was almost silly that I thought 466 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: that I could do something to contribute to my survival. 467 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: Of course there's nothing I can do. Of Course they'll 468 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: find me. Of course they'll know I'm here. Of course 469 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: they'll kill me. And at one point, you talk to 470 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: your family, is that right? Yeah? I only texted with 471 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: my family the whole time. Which people sometimes think is strange. 472 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: But over audio, I spoke almost exclusively to Google and 473 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: my family I was in touch with over text emotionally, 474 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: what role, what support are they playing with you? For you? Emotionally, 475 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: particularly for my relatives, I was I don't know that 476 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: I'd say I was supporting them, but I was very 477 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: much not letting on how frightened I was. I was 478 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: giving them updates. Here's what I hear, here's what I see, 479 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: Here's where I am. But you know, I wasn't saying 480 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: I'm terrified, I'm shaking, They're going to kill me, because 481 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: I felt like that was I felt like that would 482 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: have been selfish. There was nothing that they could do. 483 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: What was the point of telling them how afraid I 484 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: really was, you know, because all that was gonna do 485 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: was spread that fear. It was going to make them 486 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: feel what I was feeling. And I didn't want that 487 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: for anybody. So it was really, you know, when you 488 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: talk about an emotional support, that was really Melissa. Melissa 489 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: was a big part of that. She was the one 490 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: who understood the fog of the panic and how difficult 491 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: that was to think through and to live through, and 492 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: so she was the one doing almost what I know 493 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: now to be like these very typical therapy based grounding exercises. 494 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: She'd have me, you know, name things that I could 495 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: see around me, or can you find something green that's 496 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: in the room? Can you take a deep breath? And 497 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: that was that was really critical. Do you think help 498 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: is coming? Um depends on the moment that you asked me. 499 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: I remember saying to her over and over and over, 500 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: isn't some uncoming to help us? And that that's still 501 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: hard for me to say, like that still brings tear 502 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: sm eyes, and and when you think about this mentality 503 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: that I had at the time, that was so you know, 504 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: I thought of myself as being very immortal, not consciously, 505 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:16,719 Speaker 1: but that's just how I lived my life. Was like 506 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: I live a very safe life. I'm safe, of course, 507 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: I'm safe. That was the second part of it, right, 508 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: like I'm in vast mortal danger. Someone's coming, right, Like 509 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 1: someone's going to do something about this, because you know, 510 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: I think that if this experience had happened to me 511 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: in the US, that would have been my response. I 512 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: would have expected someone to respond. And so it was 513 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: sort of a sense of incredulity, like isn't anyone going 514 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: to do something about this, And I don't know, you know, 515 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: in sort of an abstract sense, I don't know who 516 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: I thought would come, the police or the special forces, 517 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: I don't know, but I remember her. She was able 518 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: to tell me in the beginning that, like, the response 519 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: force hadn't arrived yet, and I'm umber that being really shocking, 520 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: Like how is this just going on and on while 521 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: they're literally murdering innocent people and no one is here 522 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: to do anything about it. And at one point you 523 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: fall asleep, And then at one point it gets quiet 524 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: and you hear birds chirping. Yeah. I will never forget 525 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: that moment um. I wish that I could explain. I 526 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: wish that people could sit in that moment with me 527 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 1: for just a second, because to be in the midst 528 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: of this kind of horror and for it to go quiet, 529 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: not for very long, right, it was never ever quiet 530 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: for very long. But at that point the fire alarm 531 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: was off, the grenades and the gun fire stopped just 532 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: for like twenty minutes for whatever reason. And there was 533 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: a tree in the courtyard not far from my rim, 534 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: and the birds I supposed settled into the tree and 535 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 1: started chirpping. By this point the attack it had started 536 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: around three pm the previous day, so had already lasted 537 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: all the way through the night. And it was like 538 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 1: sunrise basically, and the birds in that tree started chirping, 539 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: and I could hear them very clearly from inside my 540 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: hotel bathroom is where I was, And it was something 541 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: just bizarre. Even in that moment. It was like this 542 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: reminder that there was a whole world out there that 543 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: was going on as usual. At one point, you considered 544 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: taking your life. Yeah, can you tell me about that? Yeah? Um, 545 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: I touched briefly on this idea that that if I 546 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: had died of a heart attack, it would have almost 547 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: seemed merciful, right, So it was a similar thought. This 548 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: was several hours in and I had gone through many 549 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: iterations of this emotional turmoil. Help is on the way. 550 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: Help is at your door. Go prepare to answer your door. 551 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,399 Speaker 1: They're going to extract you. Oh wait, no they're not. 552 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: Oh they might not come at all. Oh they might 553 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: be several more hours. We don't know when this will end. 554 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: We don't know if you'll live, right of like hope 555 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: and then help being snatched away, and and it was 556 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: physically mentally and emotionally exhausting in a way that is, 557 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know that I've felt exhausted in 558 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,359 Speaker 1: that way ever since. And so at one point, I'm 559 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,720 Speaker 1: incredibly jumpy, I'm nervous, and I'm out from under the shelf. 560 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,319 Speaker 1: I'm sitting on the bathroom floor with my backpack on, 561 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 1: like ready literally ready for this help. That's you know, 562 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 1: may or may not be at my door to extract me. 563 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 1: And uh, here, you know, another gunshot or another grenade. 564 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,720 Speaker 1: And I turned very rapidly and I didn't think about 565 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: the sort of extra with that my backpack was taking up. 566 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 1: And so there was a glass water bottle sitting on 567 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: the floor next to me, and my backpack made contact 568 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 1: with it and it fell over and it maattered across 569 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: the shower floor in the bathroom. The first thought was, 570 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: I have just given away in my position. Right. Everything 571 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: has been about try to make it seem like no 572 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: one is in this room. I just made what sounds 573 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,799 Speaker 1: to me like, you know, an incredibly loud noise because 574 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,280 Speaker 1: I'm so on edge, so it feels super super loud 575 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: to me. And I think I've just given away my position. 576 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: And I remember, I remember the thought not being I'm 577 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,319 Speaker 1: going to die. I remember the thought being I just 578 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: forfeit my life because I made that noise, because I 579 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: was careless. And again, it's one of these things that, 580 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: like this commonplace event and I knocked something over and broke, 581 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: it becomes the center of your universe, right Like that 582 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 1: was the center of my universe. I couldn't believe that 583 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,720 Speaker 1: I had done something clumsy enough that it might draw 584 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 1: the terrorists attention to my location. And so I'm i 585 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,720 Speaker 1: It's like a clock starts in my head. I'm like, well, 586 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 1: what they'll be here and under a minute. I have 587 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 1: to imagine, right, And so I'm looking at these shards 588 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: of glass on the shower floor and I think, you 589 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 1: know what, I'm just done with this. I'm just done, 590 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,399 Speaker 1: Like I'm done waiting for them to kill me. I'm 591 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: done being this victim. I'm done being told that I'm 592 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 1: getting saved. Like I'm just done. And I look at 593 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 1: these shards of glass and I think this is a weapon. 594 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: This is something I didn't have until right now, in 595 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: this moment. And I can't stop a K forty seven 596 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,320 Speaker 1: with a shard of glass. But what I can do 597 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,360 Speaker 1: is I can end my life I can take that 598 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 1: away from them. And I felt very defiant in that moment. 599 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:42,239 Speaker 1: I thought like, I'm dead either way, and so at 600 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: least this way I chose. At least this way they 601 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,839 Speaker 1: don't celebrate murdering me. At Least this way, there's no 602 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: risk that I get kidnapped and raped and tortured and 603 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: beheaded on video. Right, I was like, I'm just done. 604 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: And so I thought, as soon as I hear them 605 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,359 Speaker 1: at my door, I'm gonna slip my wrists and I'm 606 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,399 Speaker 1: going to bleed out. I'm gonna die. I'm gonna take 607 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:13,360 Speaker 1: that back, because it wasn't about maybe I can survive 608 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: if I don't. It literally was I am debt. This 609 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:17,839 Speaker 1: is the end of my life, and so the very 610 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: last choice I have on this earth is how how 611 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to die? And I thought I'd rather do 612 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 1: it myself. When I imagine, it's almost a moment of 613 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: taking control because everything, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like control 614 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,919 Speaker 1: in a very out of control situation. You know, real 615 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: control would have been the ability to leave or you know, 616 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: to survive, but it was like this sort of symbol 617 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: of control in a worst case scenario. Well, you know, 618 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,879 Speaker 1: I want to talk about the rescue, but before I 619 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,840 Speaker 1: just want to say that understatement of the year, but 620 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 1: I am so so sorry that you had this experience 621 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: and all of it. It's it's heartbreaking to think about 622 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: you in that bathroom. Appreciate that I think that I 623 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 1: think the thing is and I hope that that anyone 624 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:19,879 Speaker 1: with any familiarity with my story knows this. I am 625 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: finally at the place in my life where I can 626 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 1: say that I wouldn't take back what I've gained from 627 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,320 Speaker 1: that experience. If I could make the terrorist attack not happen. 628 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,400 Speaker 1: Of course I would, because so many people senselessly and 629 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 1: tragically and violently lost their lives that day. But I 630 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: survived it. And what I've gleaned about myself and my 631 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 1: relationship and my priorities, and what I've found in my 632 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: ability to give this one thing back to the world 633 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 1: that I think is my thing, that was the piece 634 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,439 Speaker 1: of my life that was missing before, it doesn't feel 635 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 1: like it's missing anymore. Like I wouldn't give that back. 636 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 1: As hard as the entire thing has been and as 637 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: grueling and as heartbreaking as you said, So I hope 638 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: people know that. I hope they don't think I spend 639 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,120 Speaker 1: my life wishing being sorry that it happened to me. 640 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: I'm sorry that it happened, but I'm not sorry for 641 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 1: what I've been able to take away from it. When 642 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: we come back, Mainly receives a phone call that would 643 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:34,080 Speaker 1: change everything. Stay with us. For every episode of All 644 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: the Wiser You Here, we donate two thousand dollars to 645 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 1: a charity. Today's episode benefits Heroic Hearts Project. Heroic Hearts 646 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:48,279 Speaker 1: Project is leading the way in the fight against PTSD. 647 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:53,439 Speaker 1: They're helping veterans suffering from military trauma get the help 648 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: they need with safe, supervised access to psychedelic treatments, professional coaching, 649 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 1: an ongoing peer support. You can learn more about Heroic 650 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: Hearts Project on their website Heroic Hearts Project dot org. 651 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:17,280 Speaker 1: I hope you'll check them out. It's been seventeen hours 652 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: since Google employee Mainly Chapin has been hiding under a 653 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 1: shelf in her hotel bathroom well under attack by terrorists 654 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 1: who were taking over the building. But something was about 655 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:36,280 Speaker 1: to happen that would finally turn the tide. I got 656 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,240 Speaker 1: a phone call, not on either one of my cell phones, 657 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:43,280 Speaker 1: but on the physical like in room phone in the hotel, 658 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,879 Speaker 1: and there's often as was the case in my hotel room, 659 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: there was like a phone by the bedside, and then 660 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:53,279 Speaker 1: there was another phone in the bathroom. So that phone rang, 661 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,359 Speaker 1: which also terrified me. I wasn't sure, like who in 662 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: the world would be calling from the side of the hotel, 663 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 1: but I, you know, it was like I was on 664 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 1: such highlert that I was definitely didn't seem like it 665 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 1: could be a good thing, so I did not want 666 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,280 Speaker 1: to answer it, and then had been given the advice 667 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,480 Speaker 1: to pick it up by you know, a trusted source 668 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,160 Speaker 1: told me to pick it up if it rang again, 669 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,600 Speaker 1: and it did, and so I picked it up, and 670 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 1: there was a very very calm American male voice on 671 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,160 Speaker 1: the phone, and he knew my name, and he was 672 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 1: telling me that I was doing a great job and 673 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,560 Speaker 1: to hang in there and that help would be on 674 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 1: the way as soon as possible. And it was startling. 675 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 1: You know, I genuinely was worried that I had started 676 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,800 Speaker 1: to hallucinate because I didn't think that any of those 677 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 1: things could really be happening. But it turned out there 678 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,319 Speaker 1: was a rescue force on the property and they were 679 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,520 Speaker 1: contacting the Americans inside of the hotel and helping us 680 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,239 Speaker 1: stay informed and stay calm, and it was he said, 681 00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 1: your floor is secure, and I remember being like, wow, sorry, 682 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 1: that still brings to your to my eyes, Like I 683 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,920 Speaker 1: just remember being like, I didn't even think that was 684 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,480 Speaker 1: a possibility anymore. I didn't think there was any world 685 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,000 Speaker 1: in which I was gonna be safe ever again in 686 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,319 Speaker 1: my life. And so it's just this phrase that was 687 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,440 Speaker 1: so beautiful. Um. I made him repeat it a couple 688 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,279 Speaker 1: of times, and you know, he was like, it's still 689 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 1: imperative that you stay where you are and that you 690 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,479 Speaker 1: continue to be hold up inside of your room, but yes, 691 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 1: your floor is secure, and I'll never I'll never ever 692 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,960 Speaker 1: forget that phrase for as long as I live. Meanwhile, 693 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 1: there was this whole additional thing happening that I really 694 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:43,239 Speaker 1: didn't understand until well after the event. But Christian Craighead 695 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:48,680 Speaker 1: is a now retired British s A S Special Operations soldier. 696 00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:51,799 Speaker 1: I'm sure people will make fun of me for saying this, 697 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,720 Speaker 1: but I've been told that perhaps it helps Americans to understand. 698 00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,200 Speaker 1: It's sort of the British version of a Navy seal, 699 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,759 Speaker 1: and Christian Craig had it was on the property, and 700 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,279 Speaker 1: I didn't know that, nor would I have known who 701 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,279 Speaker 1: he was at the time or anything like that. But um, 702 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 1: he had been as the as the story goes, he 703 00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 1: had been nearby and was made aware that this attack 704 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:20,920 Speaker 1: was happening, and he, without hesitating, drove himself to the 705 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:25,760 Speaker 1: property and started to pull people out, started to clear buildings, 706 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:30,600 Speaker 1: and started to lead all of the sort of operations 707 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:34,239 Speaker 1: against the terrorists. And so he was there for a 708 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:39,840 Speaker 1: total of twenty two hours. And he truly is the reason, 709 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 1: you know, when I think about myself lying on that 710 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,319 Speaker 1: shelf and saying, isn't anyone coming, isn't anyone coming? He 711 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,000 Speaker 1: was the answer to that question. Like he came and 712 00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,920 Speaker 1: he didn't have to. You know, he saved hundreds, Like 713 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,440 Speaker 1: literally when you think about all those businesses, the hotel, 714 00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:58,719 Speaker 1: he saved all of those people, hundreds and hundreds of 715 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:02,480 Speaker 1: people that day, and he gave us all our our 716 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:04,640 Speaker 1: lives back. And so it was so bizarre because I 717 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:08,920 Speaker 1: didn't meet him that day. Um he was busy. Uh, 718 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,160 Speaker 1: But you know, I learned about him later and the 719 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,400 Speaker 1: fact that I truly believe, I completely believe that I 720 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,680 Speaker 1: would not be alive without him, And what he did 721 00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:45,240 Speaker 1: that day. So after seventeen hours for me, the same 722 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,759 Speaker 1: voice that had been on the phone was outside of 723 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,319 Speaker 1: my hotel room door, accompanying a soft knock, as if 724 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:55,000 Speaker 1: you know, nothing in the world was happening. He was saying, Maine, 725 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,000 Speaker 1: we're here to get you out. Are you ready to leave? 726 00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,719 Speaker 1: Can you come to the door. And so I went 727 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,520 Speaker 1: to the door and I'm sobbing so hard that I 728 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:06,560 Speaker 1: can barely talk right, and I'm like beside myself, and 729 00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,719 Speaker 1: I'm I start to try to unbarricade the door, and 730 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:11,439 Speaker 1: then I don't know if I'm allowed. Am I allowed 731 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,680 Speaker 1: to unbarricade the door? Is that? Like? Do you mean 732 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,640 Speaker 1: answer the door? Are we cool? Because they said you 733 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,439 Speaker 1: gotta stay where you are. It's like all these things 734 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,720 Speaker 1: right are going through my head and I'm in addition 735 00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:21,560 Speaker 1: to that, I've been told they'll have this special password 736 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,040 Speaker 1: they're supposed to say, and they're not saying this password. 737 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,160 Speaker 1: But like, I really really want to leave, and I 738 00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,239 Speaker 1: recognize this guy's voice and I just want to go. 739 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:31,879 Speaker 1: So I start to answer the door anyway, and it's 740 00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,279 Speaker 1: my last moments on the phone with Google security line. 741 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:36,600 Speaker 1: And at this point it was no longer, Melissa, because 742 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,000 Speaker 1: they take shifts. But the person I was on the 743 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: phone with at that time was saying, absolutely not, do 744 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,360 Speaker 1: not open your door until they've said the password or 745 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:49,319 Speaker 1: like otherwise identified themselves. And so I say something like, 746 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,200 Speaker 1: can you just can you just tell me who you're 747 00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:53,200 Speaker 1: with through the door, like, you know, identify yourselves as 748 00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,560 Speaker 1: like American military or you know, whoever you are, and 749 00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,640 Speaker 1: instead and I'm literally I've hung up with Google and 750 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:01,799 Speaker 1: I'm reaching for the door knob to open the door, 751 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,200 Speaker 1: and this voice, sort of husky voice that I don't 752 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,440 Speaker 1: recognize that is American, growls back through the door or 753 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:12,640 Speaker 1: something like, UM, don't worry about it. And it was 754 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:16,520 Speaker 1: so absurd. It was just so ridiculous that my hands 755 00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,880 Speaker 1: sort of snapped back. It didn't open the door. I 756 00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:23,279 Speaker 1: was like, what, yeah, exactly, and the other guy and 757 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,000 Speaker 1: you know, it's probably true. I didn't need to worry 758 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:26,359 Speaker 1: about it. They were going to save me. It was fine. 759 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:28,520 Speaker 1: So there were two men outside my door, and that 760 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:30,480 Speaker 1: the guy that I had been on the phone with 761 00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,480 Speaker 1: said I'm really sorry about that. Mainly we're with the 762 00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,080 Speaker 1: embassy and maybe it's crazy to people, but I remember 763 00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:39,239 Speaker 1: thinking like, sure, good enough for me. I really would 764 00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:41,480 Speaker 1: like to leave, and I wrenched the door open and 765 00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,520 Speaker 1: there they were ready to extract me from the prest 766 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:47,680 Speaker 1: and it goes. You also described the leaving was like 767 00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,960 Speaker 1: a scene out of a movie. So can you explain 768 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:57,080 Speaker 1: that scene? Yeah, it's it's hard, I think, for people 769 00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:01,680 Speaker 1: to visualize what a hotel building would look like after 770 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:09,160 Speaker 1: this sort of long lasting, very violent, explosive situation. It 771 00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,120 Speaker 1: was like this. It looked like arm again. It looked 772 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:16,160 Speaker 1: like the end of the world. It was abandoned, it 773 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,680 Speaker 1: was covered in broken glass. Everything that I expected to 774 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,440 Speaker 1: see intact was no longer intact. People always ask me 775 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,520 Speaker 1: if I saw bodies in the lobby. I didn't. But 776 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,520 Speaker 1: I also had been told by Melissa many hours before 777 00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:32,960 Speaker 1: to stare at my shoes. She was like, when you're 778 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:37,279 Speaker 1: being extracted, you've seen, heard, felt enough, just look at 779 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,960 Speaker 1: your shoes and try not to look around you because 780 00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,160 Speaker 1: it's a really horrific scene. And so I really tried 781 00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,440 Speaker 1: to do that on my way out, but it was. Yeah, 782 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,160 Speaker 1: it was the aftermath in the movie that I had 783 00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:52,120 Speaker 1: seen begin seventeen hours before. And I want to jump ahead. 784 00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:56,719 Speaker 1: I know you're at that point taken to the US 785 00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:01,719 Speaker 1: embassy and eventually you may get home, you survive. But 786 00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:07,239 Speaker 1: you know, you've said that terrorists or pretty good at 787 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:11,799 Speaker 1: their jobs. Clearly, the terror of that moment and the 788 00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:16,239 Speaker 1: ripple effects the families who lost loved ones, and the 789 00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,880 Speaker 1: trauma that's so many endured, but the trauma to some 790 00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:26,680 Speaker 1: extent is just beginning for you. And that is the 791 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,799 Speaker 1: heart of your work and your service today. So how 792 00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,920 Speaker 1: is it showing up in your day to day life? 793 00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,120 Speaker 1: You know? The thing that I always think about with 794 00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,959 Speaker 1: that part of the experience is that I didn't see 795 00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,600 Speaker 1: it coming. That's I think what was so difficult about 796 00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:48,439 Speaker 1: it for me, what was so shocking for me. I 797 00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:52,680 Speaker 1: remember thinking, like, I did it. I made it somehow, 798 00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:59,239 Speaker 1: um beyond any likelihood. I survived, and I get to 799 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:00,960 Speaker 1: go back to my family, and I get to go 800 00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:02,560 Speaker 1: back to my life, and I get to go back 801 00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:06,960 Speaker 1: to my job. And then when I got home, I 802 00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:08,520 Speaker 1: was okay for a couple of days. I was sort 803 00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,160 Speaker 1: of in shock for a couple of days. It still 804 00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:14,319 Speaker 1: didn't feel real. And then the very first symptom that 805 00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:16,160 Speaker 1: I had that I would then have for a very 806 00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,000 Speaker 1: long time was I was trying to go to sleep 807 00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,360 Speaker 1: in my what's sort of a guest room, but the 808 00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:22,759 Speaker 1: room I was staying in at my parents house. I 809 00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:27,200 Speaker 1: was trying to go to sleep one night and I 810 00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:31,960 Speaker 1: started to panic, like my heart started slamming back to 811 00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:34,520 Speaker 1: that like it hurt. My heart was pounding so hard 812 00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:36,880 Speaker 1: it hurt, and my hands started shaking, and I started 813 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,200 Speaker 1: crying and sweating. And I was lying there and I 814 00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:45,440 Speaker 1: was listening for an explosion. I was not thinking, you know, 815 00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,520 Speaker 1: about where I was, or you know, whether or not 816 00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,200 Speaker 1: I was safe. There was no conscious that I was 817 00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:56,840 Speaker 1: waiting for a massive earth shattering sound that would sound 818 00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,000 Speaker 1: just like the one that I had heard in Kenya. 819 00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:01,400 Speaker 1: And I I had to get up. I had to 820 00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:03,359 Speaker 1: get up out of bed, and I was crying, and 821 00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:06,120 Speaker 1: my then fiance, my now husband, was asking me what 822 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,319 Speaker 1: was happening. And I didn't know, Like I didn't know 823 00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,000 Speaker 1: what was happening to me. I didn't know why that 824 00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:14,839 Speaker 1: was happening, and and I was very shocked by it. 825 00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,360 Speaker 1: And so I started to have a lot of difficulty 826 00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:19,439 Speaker 1: going to bed, and when I could go to sleep, 827 00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,920 Speaker 1: I would have very vivid nightmares of terrorism. And so 828 00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:26,840 Speaker 1: I was suffering from insomnia, I was suffering from nightmares, 829 00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,640 Speaker 1: and then I started having panic attacks. So there would 830 00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:33,120 Speaker 1: be things that would remind me very vividly of the attack, 831 00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:36,560 Speaker 1: like the sound of a fire alarm or the sound 832 00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:40,160 Speaker 1: of a firework, and I would like hit the floor 833 00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:43,720 Speaker 1: in the fetal position, shaking and crying, and I felt 834 00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:49,520 Speaker 1: very outside of myself. I felt like I didn't know 835 00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,000 Speaker 1: who I was. I didn't know why this was happening. 836 00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,680 Speaker 1: I couldn't focus, I couldn't work, I couldn't sleep. I 837 00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:58,080 Speaker 1: didn't feel like I was in control of my emotions. 838 00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:02,400 Speaker 1: And then all of these effects together started to manifest 839 00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:06,160 Speaker 1: as this like deep, deep rage, which is something that 840 00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:10,640 Speaker 1: I really never have otherwise dealt with in my life. 841 00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:17,400 Speaker 1: I'm like a pretty upbeat person, and I was so angry. 842 00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,400 Speaker 1: I was so angry at the whole world, and I 843 00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:21,759 Speaker 1: would just scream at my loved ones. It was like 844 00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:24,319 Speaker 1: anything they said, I would say, how dare you? And 845 00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:28,239 Speaker 1: you can't possibly understand? And you know, and then and 846 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:33,040 Speaker 1: then I would feel like like I didn't even deserve 847 00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,960 Speaker 1: to have my family back, right. All I wanted was 848 00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:38,800 Speaker 1: to get my family back. Now Here I am and 849 00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:42,359 Speaker 1: I'm screaming in their faces because they're trying to help me. Um, 850 00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:44,640 Speaker 1: and so then I would go into these long, like 851 00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:48,440 Speaker 1: spiral sessions of just like guilt and shame, and I 852 00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,879 Speaker 1: would just sob and sob and sob, and I just 853 00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,799 Speaker 1: remember thinking, like it became this thought all the time 854 00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,520 Speaker 1: in my head, of like I didn't deserve to survive this. 855 00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:01,600 Speaker 1: I should have died there every one would be better off. Yeah, 856 00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:06,040 Speaker 1: I mean it sounds like all of it guilt, shame, 857 00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:11,240 Speaker 1: and then going back to the driver, the constant hyper 858 00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:16,880 Speaker 1: vigilance and fear, which must be just exhausting. Yeah, exhausting 859 00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:18,960 Speaker 1: is right, And I try to when I try to 860 00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,319 Speaker 1: explain it to people who haven't experience that, I say, first, 861 00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,799 Speaker 1: imagine that you're sleeping like two hours a night, best 862 00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:28,560 Speaker 1: case scenario, and then imagine that you're deeply convinced that 863 00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:34,000 Speaker 1: everything and everyone might suddenly become very dangerous. Right, you know, 864 00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:36,240 Speaker 1: the only safe place is sort of this one corner 865 00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:38,600 Speaker 1: of your apartment. So you can't go to the gym, 866 00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:40,000 Speaker 1: and you can't go to the grocery store, and you 867 00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:41,839 Speaker 1: can't go to work, and you can't focus for more 868 00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,839 Speaker 1: than a few minutes without having an extremely vivid flashback, 869 00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:46,880 Speaker 1: and by the end of the flashback, you're shaking and 870 00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:50,520 Speaker 1: sweating and crying, and then in the rare moments of 871 00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:55,000 Speaker 1: lucidity that you do have, you're thinking, I don't want 872 00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:57,920 Speaker 1: to be this person, Like is this who I am now? 873 00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:01,400 Speaker 1: I I don't want to When I when I was 874 00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:05,719 Speaker 1: fighting for my life, when I was begging the universe 875 00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:09,440 Speaker 1: to let me survive, it was to be the person 876 00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:14,160 Speaker 1: that I was before the attack, not this sort of 877 00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:19,400 Speaker 1: messy I felt very like dilapidated, very down on myself, 878 00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,560 Speaker 1: very depressed, Like it wasn't to be this this like 879 00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:27,120 Speaker 1: shell of my former self. So what's the point? That 880 00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:30,239 Speaker 1: was like really really the struggle at the time. And 881 00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:35,520 Speaker 1: you also talked about this notion of the world being unsafe, 882 00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:41,760 Speaker 1: which becomes your new reality, and how that leads to 883 00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,279 Speaker 1: cutting yourself off from this unsafe world. You know, you 884 00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:48,680 Speaker 1: said exercise was but the is the gym safe? Well? 885 00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:50,480 Speaker 1: Can I go to dinner? If I go to dinner, 886 00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:53,680 Speaker 1: I need to find the nearest exit. So your world 887 00:53:53,840 --> 00:54:01,200 Speaker 1: starts to shrink, which I imagine exacerbates the depress Shian isolation. 888 00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:06,400 Speaker 1: The and so that input of joy, of connection of 889 00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:10,520 Speaker 1: community is getting smaller and smaller as a result of 890 00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:14,840 Speaker 1: the trauma. That's exactly right. Yeah, And you think about 891 00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,759 Speaker 1: just just start from one belief right that we've discussed 892 00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:22,600 Speaker 1: repeatedly so far. I believe that when I travel for 893 00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:25,560 Speaker 1: work and stay in a five star hotel, I'm safe. Right. 894 00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:28,759 Speaker 1: That was a belief I had never questioned, and that 895 00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:33,040 Speaker 1: had been so wildly untrue that that's what your brain 896 00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,120 Speaker 1: starts doing. It starts going, well, I used to think 897 00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:37,359 Speaker 1: the gym was safe. Well. I used to think that 898 00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:39,400 Speaker 1: restaurants were safe. Well, I used to think the grocery 899 00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:43,160 Speaker 1: store was safe. Right. And you begin to unpin all 900 00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:46,360 Speaker 1: of these beliefs and say, like, I don't know anymore. Clearly, 901 00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:49,400 Speaker 1: I don't have the ability to know what's safe and 902 00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,600 Speaker 1: what's not, So I better just not take any chances. 903 00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:54,600 Speaker 1: That's what it starts to feel like. And and you're 904 00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:57,480 Speaker 1: exactly right. That means you're not seeing friends, you're not 905 00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:00,400 Speaker 1: doing the things you love, you're not getting for me, 906 00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:03,359 Speaker 1: like exercises. The thing still very much to this day 907 00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,000 Speaker 1: that sort of keeps me saying I always say it 908 00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:08,000 Speaker 1: like makes me a better person. And I wasn't getting 909 00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:09,839 Speaker 1: that right, And I wasn't getting to work, and it's 910 00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:14,040 Speaker 1: so like, in addition to losing stimulus and losing connection 911 00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,560 Speaker 1: and losing all of these pieces of your world, you 912 00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:20,000 Speaker 1: also very much lose your identity and that was so 913 00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:26,759 Speaker 1: so difficult. So the path to healing, surprisingly, or I 914 00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:30,720 Speaker 1: would say I found it to be really interesting and cool, 915 00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:37,239 Speaker 1: involves the FBI, who knew yeah yeah, um in what 916 00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:42,319 Speaker 1: is another sort of absurd moment? In what is a 917 00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,960 Speaker 1: life that is much much stranger than fiction. Well, I 918 00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,200 Speaker 1: guess two things are important to know. The first is 919 00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:52,040 Speaker 1: that there's a small department inside of the FBI whose 920 00:55:52,480 --> 00:56:00,000 Speaker 1: duty is to assist American survivors of international terrorist attacks, 921 00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:05,120 Speaker 1: so like me, and and the second thing to know 922 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:09,200 Speaker 1: is that they had been made aware of my existence, 923 00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:12,000 Speaker 1: of my survival long before I was aware of them. 924 00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:13,760 Speaker 1: And so you know, when I was still in the hotel, 925 00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:16,399 Speaker 1: they were already getting updates on me. They knew which 926 00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:18,359 Speaker 1: flights I would be on back to the US, they 927 00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:20,720 Speaker 1: were tracking everything to make sure that I got home safely. 928 00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:25,040 Speaker 1: And so they actually come. My victims specialist came to 929 00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:28,680 Speaker 1: my parents home in Ohio and rang the doorbell that evening, 930 00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:32,640 Speaker 1: and my fiance and my brother, I think, went and 931 00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:36,800 Speaker 1: answered it, and she handed him a like a Okay, 932 00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:39,440 Speaker 1: that also makes me an emotional still, she handed him 933 00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:44,759 Speaker 1: like a a care package, and it was it really 934 00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:48,040 Speaker 1: speaks to the fact that she knew the mental fallout 935 00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:50,399 Speaker 1: was coming before I did. Right, This was a care 936 00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,400 Speaker 1: package of like tissues and water and a stuffed animal 937 00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:59,279 Speaker 1: and a comforting note. And I remember how important those 938 00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:01,160 Speaker 1: items became to me a couple of days later. But 939 00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:05,719 Speaker 1: more importantly was this idea that like someone understood. Someone 940 00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:07,960 Speaker 1: must have understood what I'd be going through to have 941 00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:10,839 Speaker 1: dropped this off. And so her business card was in it, 942 00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:13,680 Speaker 1: and I called her I think at the behest honestly 943 00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:15,759 Speaker 1: of my family or you know, I don't remember whose 944 00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:18,000 Speaker 1: idea it was. And she would come and sit with 945 00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:22,960 Speaker 1: me in my parents home in Ohio for hours, just 946 00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:24,720 Speaker 1: as long as I wanted to sit there as I 947 00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:26,520 Speaker 1: would cry and say, I don't know what's happening, and 948 00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:29,000 Speaker 1: I'm having these panic attacks, and she would just sit 949 00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:30,400 Speaker 1: with me and she would talk to me, and she 950 00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,560 Speaker 1: told me all of these things that didn't feel true 951 00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:34,760 Speaker 1: at the time but turned out to be like so accurate. 952 00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,640 Speaker 1: And I still talked to her, and she's amazing and 953 00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:43,760 Speaker 1: was like this just like symbol of hope, and I 954 00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:45,919 Speaker 1: don't know. It was like she believed that I could 955 00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,240 Speaker 1: live through it, and so I believed it because she 956 00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:51,040 Speaker 1: believed it. And so she was the first person to 957 00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:54,880 Speaker 1: say to me, I think that you are developing PTSD 958 00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:57,160 Speaker 1: and we really need to think about getting you a 959 00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:01,320 Speaker 1: trauma therapist. And I remember arguing with I remember saying, 960 00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:04,840 Speaker 1: that's ridiculous. I'm not a veteran. I didn't fight any terrorists. 961 00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,040 Speaker 1: I can't have PTSD, because that was sort of the 962 00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:10,080 Speaker 1: limited understanding that I had of PTSD at the time. 963 00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:13,920 Speaker 1: One of course I did have PTSD, and the fact 964 00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:17,240 Speaker 1: that I couldn't believe that I had PTSD was exacerbating 965 00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:20,520 Speaker 1: my symptoms. So it was the FBI. Was that group 966 00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:23,000 Speaker 1: in the FBI that found me My trauma therapist in 967 00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:27,320 Speaker 1: California told her to expect my call, then confirmed with 968 00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:29,400 Speaker 1: me that I had made my first appointment, then confirmed 969 00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:31,640 Speaker 1: with me that I had attended my first appointment, liked 970 00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:34,160 Speaker 1: it and intended to go back, and then checked in 971 00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:36,560 Speaker 1: with me periodically throughout treatment to make sure that I 972 00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:39,840 Speaker 1: was improving, that I was continuing to attend and that 973 00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:44,960 Speaker 1: I could manage the financial burden is someone who has 974 00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:48,880 Speaker 1: deeply lived it, both the trauma and the post trauma. 975 00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:55,280 Speaker 1: How do we process trauma and how do we heal 976 00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:59,200 Speaker 1: from it? What is the path to healing perhaps for 977 00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:02,240 Speaker 1: those who are getting in it and and haven't taken 978 00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:08,160 Speaker 1: that first step. Yeah, I think that, And I don't 979 00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:10,400 Speaker 1: mean to sidestep your question at all. I just want 980 00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:13,000 Speaker 1: to be super clear that there are so many different 981 00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:15,720 Speaker 1: paths to healing, and I actually think that's really important 982 00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:19,800 Speaker 1: to say, because it is not one size fits all, right, 983 00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,080 Speaker 1: Like what worked for me may well not work for 984 00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:27,960 Speaker 1: someone else. So what's so I think hopeful about that 985 00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:30,680 Speaker 1: is that there are so many methods of treatment out 986 00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:32,840 Speaker 1: there that, like, to me, that's so amazing and so 987 00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:36,480 Speaker 1: important because there is one that can work right. There 988 00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:39,800 Speaker 1: are methods of treatment for PTSD that are coming out 989 00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:44,760 Speaker 1: right now that have six success rate for treatment resistant 990 00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:47,880 Speaker 1: PTSD right for people who feel that they've already tried everything. 991 00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:50,560 Speaker 1: So I truly believe that for every person there is 992 00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:53,680 Speaker 1: an answer. It's just really different for everyone. What I 993 00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:58,800 Speaker 1: would say is probably always true is that step one 994 00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:05,640 Speaker 1: is integrating your trauma into your personality into who you 995 01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:08,920 Speaker 1: are right, How does this affect who I am, what 996 01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:11,480 Speaker 1: I believe, what I want to do with my life, 997 01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:14,040 Speaker 1: what I'm able to do physically right now on a 998 01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:18,840 Speaker 1: daily basis, the mental symptoms and the mental fallout, and 999 01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:21,720 Speaker 1: then understanding that whatever that means for you, however, that 1000 01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:25,360 Speaker 1: trauma is coming to life for you right now, it's 1001 01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:29,240 Speaker 1: not permanent. Whatever method of treatment does work for you, 1002 01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:34,480 Speaker 1: it's going to help you alleviate some of those symptoms. 1003 01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:38,360 Speaker 1: It's going to help you integrate that into who you 1004 01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:40,760 Speaker 1: are and move forward with your life. If you feel 1005 01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:44,000 Speaker 1: so incredibly stuck the way that I did, that's a 1006 01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:47,760 Speaker 1: symptom of trauma, right, and that can be alleviated. I 1007 01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,160 Speaker 1: don't feel stuck in my life today, but I did 1008 01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:52,800 Speaker 1: at that time. The last thing that I want to 1009 01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:59,680 Speaker 1: say is like, for me, the most important part of trauma. 1010 01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:02,200 Speaker 1: Therey and I did a very sort of classic talk 1011 01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:06,240 Speaker 1: therapy based trauma therapy protocol called prolonged exposure, and it 1012 01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:08,959 Speaker 1: involved talking about what happened to me over and over again, 1013 01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:11,360 Speaker 1: which is one of the only reasons I can do 1014 01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:13,600 Speaker 1: things like this. I can talk about it very comfortably 1015 01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:16,760 Speaker 1: now because I had all that experience processing it, and 1016 01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:18,600 Speaker 1: so that made sense to me. One of the things 1017 01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:20,560 Speaker 1: that was so important to my recovery that I didn't 1018 01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:25,320 Speaker 1: realize i'd have to do is grieve the person I 1019 01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:29,240 Speaker 1: had lost, Right, I had to grieve the person that 1020 01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:31,760 Speaker 1: I was before the terrorist attacked because I could never 1021 01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:36,040 Speaker 1: again be that person. I could never be the girl 1022 01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:39,240 Speaker 1: who thought of herself as immortal, or who walked into 1023 01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:41,920 Speaker 1: Nirobi without a care in the world. Right, it just 1024 01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:43,959 Speaker 1: wasn't going to happen. That girl can't be the same 1025 01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:47,920 Speaker 1: one who has lived this experience. And so grieving the 1026 01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:50,760 Speaker 1: person that I used to be was this critical, critical 1027 01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:52,960 Speaker 1: part of my recovery and one that I talk a 1028 01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:55,640 Speaker 1: lot about when I talk with other survivors. Well, you know, 1029 01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:58,840 Speaker 1: you've touched on it several times. The identity piece, the 1030 01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:04,000 Speaker 1: loss of your the only identity you knew until then, 1031 01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:08,640 Speaker 1: and the new understanding of yourself and your identity. And 1032 01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:12,280 Speaker 1: so I want to talk about your choice to name 1033 01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:19,120 Speaker 1: your brilliant book about this messy middle terrorist attack girl, 1034 01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:23,760 Speaker 1: because that's really leaning into the identity. So you do 1035 01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:28,280 Speaker 1: make a conscious choice to name your book and to 1036 01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:33,120 Speaker 1: step into that piece of yourself. So if you can 1037 01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:36,800 Speaker 1: touch on that and just the why of that in 1038 01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:41,040 Speaker 1: the process. Yeah, I love and I so appreciate that question. 1039 01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:44,760 Speaker 1: I want to sort of preface this by saying, and 1040 01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:47,000 Speaker 1: I try to always mention this when I'm talking about 1041 01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:50,280 Speaker 1: healing from trauma, the only thing I've ever gone through 1042 01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:52,120 Speaker 1: in my life that was as difficult as the terrorist 1043 01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:56,439 Speaker 1: attack was healing afterward and doing all of that talk 1044 01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:59,280 Speaker 1: therapy and doing all of that work. But I do 1045 01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:01,920 Speaker 1: always say, at least for me, the only thing worse 1046 01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:05,720 Speaker 1: than the only thing harder than trauma treatment was living 1047 01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:08,360 Speaker 1: with PTSD, And so that was what made it worth 1048 01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:10,280 Speaker 1: it to go back and do that work over and 1049 01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:14,160 Speaker 1: over because at the end of the day, I had 1050 01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:17,760 Speaker 1: a new identity that I love and that I'm proud of, 1051 01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:21,760 Speaker 1: and I was done with trauma therapy and I didn't 1052 01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:25,080 Speaker 1: have PTSD anymore. So it's like all upside. But it 1053 01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:27,920 Speaker 1: was a ton of ton of work, and so part 1054 01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:31,640 Speaker 1: of that work for me, I was trying to understand 1055 01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:34,640 Speaker 1: how I wanted to integrate this experience into my life 1056 01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:39,360 Speaker 1: right because I was again I was taking control, I 1057 01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:42,400 Speaker 1: was being guided by my therapist. I was learning that 1058 01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:46,680 Speaker 1: I could choose how exactly this experience was going to 1059 01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:49,880 Speaker 1: play a role in my life going forward, and I did. 1060 01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:52,680 Speaker 1: I felt exactly the thing you're talking about. Every room 1061 01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:54,960 Speaker 1: that I walked into, I was terrorist attack girl. You know, 1062 01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:56,680 Speaker 1: if I went to Google, I was the girl who 1063 01:03:56,680 --> 01:03:58,520 Speaker 1: had been in the terrorist attack, and if I went 1064 01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:01,080 Speaker 1: to extended family, I was the girl had been in 1065 01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:02,960 Speaker 1: the terrorist attack. And if I attended a wedding, I 1066 01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:04,400 Speaker 1: was the girl who had been in the terrorist attack. 1067 01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:08,400 Speaker 1: And like, it felt like it was defining me. And 1068 01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:12,680 Speaker 1: I remember saying to someone, you know what, if this 1069 01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:15,960 Speaker 1: experience is going to live at the center of my identity, 1070 01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:19,040 Speaker 1: then I'm going to choose what it means. If I'm 1071 01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:21,479 Speaker 1: going to walk in that room and be terrorist attack girl, 1072 01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:23,680 Speaker 1: I'm going to be really proud of it, and it's 1073 01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:27,040 Speaker 1: going to have a whole meaning to me that I 1074 01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:30,520 Speaker 1: care about that fits with my new identity. And so 1075 01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:34,920 Speaker 1: for me, I wanted it to mean that's that girl 1076 01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:39,200 Speaker 1: who's trying to bring hope and empathy to other people, 1077 01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:43,120 Speaker 1: to other survivors and to their families. Because the vast 1078 01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:45,800 Speaker 1: majority of us will go through something very difficult, at 1079 01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:48,920 Speaker 1: least one very very difficult thing in our lives and 1080 01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:53,720 Speaker 1: that tends to make us feel alone and depressed and 1081 01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:57,920 Speaker 1: in pain. And I really believe that by getting out 1082 01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:00,439 Speaker 1: there and by putting out my book Terrorist a Tack Girl, 1083 01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:05,280 Speaker 1: and by doing these um podcasts and interviews, that I 1084 01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,840 Speaker 1: can help people feel less alone, people who are in it, 1085 01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:10,439 Speaker 1: people who do feel stuck, and that I can give 1086 01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:13,840 Speaker 1: them empathy to know that I was there, I know 1087 01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:16,680 Speaker 1: what it feels like and hope that they can heal. 1088 01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:19,920 Speaker 1: And that's what being Terrorist Attack Girl means to me, 1089 01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:23,160 Speaker 1: because I get to define it. I love all of 1090 01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:27,720 Speaker 1: that so much. I don't want to gloss over how 1091 01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:30,800 Speaker 1: hard the work was and how much you showed up 1092 01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:35,880 Speaker 1: again and again and again on this journey of healing 1093 01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:40,959 Speaker 1: and rediscovery. I'm so glad that the payoff was there 1094 01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:45,160 Speaker 1: for you. Thank you. I'm really deeply thankful that I 1095 01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:49,240 Speaker 1: had an incredible support system and that I had access 1096 01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:53,040 Speaker 1: to that type of treatment, because most people don't, and 1097 01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:55,760 Speaker 1: most people certainly don't. Thank you for saying that that's 1098 01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:59,000 Speaker 1: so true, and for you to recognize that and be 1099 01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:03,600 Speaker 1: aware of it and and have gratitude for it. Did 1100 01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:07,640 Speaker 1: you ever meet Melissa or Christian? Yeah? I actually met 1101 01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:11,560 Speaker 1: them both. Um not together. But I met up with 1102 01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:15,360 Speaker 1: Melissa on Google campus and we had a lunch together 1103 01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:19,240 Speaker 1: when I was back, and I it's almost this funny 1104 01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:22,640 Speaker 1: thing because I think, like, for me, she was my hero, 1105 01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:26,160 Speaker 1: and for her I was some version of, you know, 1106 01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:28,080 Speaker 1: a hero to her. I had been the one who 1107 01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:30,320 Speaker 1: actually lived through it, and she for me, she had 1108 01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:36,480 Speaker 1: been this like all knowing, insanely calm, exactly what I 1109 01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:40,280 Speaker 1: needed in the moments that I needed it, like disembodied voice. 1110 01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:42,960 Speaker 1: But it was just it was so special just to 1111 01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:46,840 Speaker 1: sit there with her and like and to see her 1112 01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:50,400 Speaker 1: in the flesh and and like put this face to 1113 01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:56,040 Speaker 1: this um voice that that is this critical central part 1114 01:06:56,080 --> 01:07:00,640 Speaker 1: of my survival. So that was really special and it's cool, 1115 01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:03,040 Speaker 1: you know, She's like, it was just cool. She's young, 1116 01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:06,000 Speaker 1: and she's a woman, and she does this job where 1117 01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:09,600 Speaker 1: this is not her typical day, sort of one of 1118 01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:11,800 Speaker 1: the most extraordinary days of her career and the most 1119 01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:14,479 Speaker 1: extraordinary day of my life, and one of the only 1120 01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:18,840 Speaker 1: people who will ever understand exactly what it was like 1121 01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:21,800 Speaker 1: for me moment to moment because she heard me dealing 1122 01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:24,520 Speaker 1: with it. So that was a really really special thing. 1123 01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:29,360 Speaker 1: And then, um, I never thought in a million years 1124 01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:31,200 Speaker 1: I would get to meet Christian Craig. It I became 1125 01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:35,200 Speaker 1: this like super fan obviously sort of digitally. The whole 1126 01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:37,080 Speaker 1: Internet was like talking about him and trying to figure 1127 01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:40,439 Speaker 1: out who he was. And they knew that he had 1128 01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:44,080 Speaker 1: carried this bag like kit that had the black Beard 1129 01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:46,040 Speaker 1: flag on it, and so I got all this black 1130 01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:49,840 Speaker 1: Beard flag paraphernalia, and you know, I became this, yeah, 1131 01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:54,400 Speaker 1: this like super fan. Yes, exactly, became a groupie um. 1132 01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:56,240 Speaker 1: And I never I never even thought I would know 1133 01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:58,800 Speaker 1: like his identity, much less get to meet him, but 1134 01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:03,160 Speaker 1: he did happen to higher and so he ultimately now 1135 01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:06,400 Speaker 1: has made himself like a public figure. You can look up, 1136 01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:10,640 Speaker 1: you know, he's done Instagram and he's just this like wonderful, crazy, 1137 01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:15,520 Speaker 1: you know, British Captain America type person. And so we 1138 01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:18,000 Speaker 1: did get connected ultimately, and we sat down in a 1139 01:08:18,120 --> 01:08:26,080 Speaker 1: hotel in Washington, d C. And and I don't I 1140 01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:29,080 Speaker 1: don't know what you're supposed to say to a total 1141 01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:33,479 Speaker 1: stranger who didn't just save you, but like was literally 1142 01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:38,120 Speaker 1: willing to die to save you across the world. I 1143 01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:39,920 Speaker 1: don't know what you're supposed to say when you meet 1144 01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:42,120 Speaker 1: that person. And I feel like I'm always the person 1145 01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:43,880 Speaker 1: who like says the right thing. I always have the 1146 01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:49,280 Speaker 1: right thing to say. But I just I just crabbed him, 1147 01:08:49,320 --> 01:08:51,320 Speaker 1: like I just hugged him, and I just never wanted 1148 01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:56,599 Speaker 1: to let go because because there were no words. Right, 1149 01:08:56,600 --> 01:09:00,080 Speaker 1: there's no version of thank you for giving me my 1150 01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:03,360 Speaker 1: life back. There's no version of like, I don't know you, 1151 01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:06,320 Speaker 1: but you're the reason I got to marry my husband, 1152 01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:10,840 Speaker 1: and you're the reason that my brother I didn't have 1153 01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:16,479 Speaker 1: to attend my funeral, right, and so sorry, this is 1154 01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:21,040 Speaker 1: like no I'm crying to I'm I'm sorry, but they're 1155 01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:28,920 Speaker 1: like happy to yours, you know. But it's just it's 1156 01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:31,880 Speaker 1: so extraordinary, and I think it's so important to why 1157 01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:37,280 Speaker 1: I was able to heal, because while my view of 1158 01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:42,040 Speaker 1: evil radically was changed that day, my view of good 1159 01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:46,040 Speaker 1: and the goodness of humanity was also radically impacted that 1160 01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:50,799 Speaker 1: day in that I got to see a total stranger 1161 01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:53,719 Speaker 1: walk in there and saved my life and he didn't 1162 01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:56,000 Speaker 1: have to and he didn't know me, and he didn't 1163 01:09:56,080 --> 01:10:00,320 Speaker 1: get anything from it. And so it was like, as 1164 01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:03,120 Speaker 1: as much evil as there is in the world, and 1165 01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:08,400 Speaker 1: as much evil as humanity can perpetrate. It was so magical. 1166 01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:11,840 Speaker 1: It was so meaningful to know that we can put 1167 01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:14,880 Speaker 1: out just as much, if not more good, Like that 1168 01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:18,639 Speaker 1: is everything to me. So he like didn't only save 1169 01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:22,479 Speaker 1: my life, he saved my my world view. So yeah, 1170 01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:24,080 Speaker 1: I don't know how to put that into word. I 1171 01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:31,120 Speaker 1: love everything about that. The yeah, obviously that he saved 1172 01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:34,400 Speaker 1: you in your hair, but also that you're able to 1173 01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:41,040 Speaker 1: see that optimistic, hopeful, loving worldview because in large part 1174 01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:46,479 Speaker 1: because of him. Yeah. What do you hope people take 1175 01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:53,920 Speaker 1: away from your story? Um? When I was when I 1176 01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:56,280 Speaker 1: was really struggling, like when I was really in the 1177 01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:59,519 Speaker 1: thick of it, when I didn't feel like I deserved 1178 01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:07,840 Speaker 1: to be alive, I felt so alone in that, And 1179 01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:12,439 Speaker 1: so I hope that anyone who comes across this story 1180 01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:17,719 Speaker 1: is left with the idea that we are never ever alone, 1181 01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:21,880 Speaker 1: and in particular, in the moments when we are in 1182 01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:26,320 Speaker 1: the most pain, we are not alone. I hear a 1183 01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:30,559 Speaker 1: story every day of someone saying like, this is my story. 1184 01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:33,320 Speaker 1: Our experiences are completely different, our lives are completely different, 1185 01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:35,439 Speaker 1: we look different, we live in different places. But when 1186 01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:39,200 Speaker 1: I read your words, I know them. I felt that 1187 01:11:39,240 --> 01:11:42,479 Speaker 1: and I felt alone, And that's the thing like, we're 1188 01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:45,200 Speaker 1: never alone. Pain is the one thing that every human 1189 01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:48,519 Speaker 1: being knows, and so when we're in the most pain, 1190 01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:52,160 Speaker 1: we're probably least alone. And I think there's something So 1191 01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:55,040 Speaker 1: while that's so sad, right, it's sad to think that 1192 01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:58,320 Speaker 1: we all hurt, I think that there's so much hope 1193 01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:00,639 Speaker 1: to be taken from that, because if I can get 1194 01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:04,439 Speaker 1: through it, even having told you how dark and ugly 1195 01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:09,479 Speaker 1: and painful and just horrific it was, I truly believe 1196 01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:14,080 Speaker 1: that anyone else can get through it. Thank you for 1197 01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:20,120 Speaker 1: your courage in sharing your story, your bravery and vulnerability, 1198 01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:23,919 Speaker 1: and talking about the hard parts and the messy parts, 1199 01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:28,559 Speaker 1: and just leaning into this new identity which I very 1200 01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:33,840 Speaker 1: much see as service to others who are in their 1201 01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:37,360 Speaker 1: own pain or suffering. So for all of it, thank you, 1202 01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:39,240 Speaker 1: And you know, thank you for your trust in me 1203 01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:43,479 Speaker 1: today of course, Thanks for having me in, Thanks for 1204 01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:46,080 Speaker 1: listening and making it feel like a space where I 1205 01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:49,360 Speaker 1: could talk about those things and even cry. Okay, we're 1206 01:12:49,400 --> 01:12:52,160 Speaker 1: going to do a quick lightning round, but before that, 1207 01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:58,360 Speaker 1: where can people find your book and your app Trauma Brace. Yeah, 1208 01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:03,080 Speaker 1: my book Terrorists Deteck Girl is available pretty much across 1209 01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:06,240 Speaker 1: digital platforms, but it's easiest to find on Amazon. The 1210 01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:10,760 Speaker 1: audio book is on Audible, which I narrated myself. If 1211 01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:13,400 Speaker 1: somehow you still want to listen to another seven or 1212 01:13:13,439 --> 01:13:15,600 Speaker 1: eight hours of my voice, then you can grab the 1213 01:13:15,640 --> 01:13:18,920 Speaker 1: audio book and then yeah, you know, we have this 1214 01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:23,360 Speaker 1: self help app for people who are struggling to process 1215 01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:28,160 Speaker 1: trauma to use the evidence based protocols that I used 1216 01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:31,240 Speaker 1: in my treatment for a teeny tiny fraction of the cost. 1217 01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:35,320 Speaker 1: So it's not about turning a profit. It's about making proper, 1218 01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:39,120 Speaker 1: evidence based treatment tools available at a very affordable price. 1219 01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:42,000 Speaker 1: And the app is called Trauma Brace and it's available 1220 01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:44,800 Speaker 1: on the Apple App Store. And we will link to 1221 01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:47,320 Speaker 1: both of those in the show notes, and if you 1222 01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:49,840 Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram, will have links there as well. 1223 01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:58,200 Speaker 1: So we're gonna end with something light a lightning rounds excellent. 1224 01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:02,640 Speaker 1: Favorite time of year ever season, easily the autumn. I 1225 01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:05,400 Speaker 1: love autumn. I love when the colors change. I just 1226 01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:07,960 Speaker 1: think it's so beautiful. First thing you do in the morning. 1227 01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:12,439 Speaker 1: What is the very first thing I do in the morning? 1228 01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:17,960 Speaker 1: Let my dogs outside in your new puppy Yes, best 1229 01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:24,160 Speaker 1: book you've ever readden that's so hard. I love to read. 1230 01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:27,439 Speaker 1: One of the best books I've ever read is Salt 1231 01:14:27,479 --> 01:14:29,680 Speaker 1: in My Soul, which is I talked about in my 1232 01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:32,479 Speaker 1: book as well, but it just gave me hope at 1233 01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:34,600 Speaker 1: a time that I really needed some. And it's a 1234 01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:39,599 Speaker 1: beautiful and sad and compelling story of a young woman 1235 01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:44,439 Speaker 1: who lost her life. Binge worthy show, Oh man, I've 1236 01:14:44,479 --> 01:14:49,519 Speaker 1: been on these like um recreation shows right, so was 1237 01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:54,240 Speaker 1: it inventing Anna on Netflix? And the Girl in the 1238 01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:58,200 Speaker 1: picture is just yeah, these like crazy stories that are 1239 01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:02,040 Speaker 1: yes real, but there's ranger than fiction. Favorite way to 1240 01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:05,280 Speaker 1: spend a Friday night, Oh my gosh, I'm so lame. 1241 01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:08,240 Speaker 1: My favorite favorite way to spend a Friday night is 1242 01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:11,479 Speaker 1: curled up on my couch watching Like a Terrible rom 1243 01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:14,360 Speaker 1: Com and eating take out with my husband. Sounds good 1244 01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:18,439 Speaker 1: to me. Best piece of advice you've ever been given, 1245 01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:24,599 Speaker 1: oh man, ever been given? One of my favorite pieces 1246 01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:29,400 Speaker 1: of advice is open every door you can for yourself, 1247 01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:31,760 Speaker 1: so that you get to choose which one you walk through. 1248 01:15:32,479 --> 01:15:36,960 Speaker 1: So fitting for your story. Thank you again, and I 1249 01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:40,000 Speaker 1: can't wait to share this with our listeners. Oh, thank 1250 01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:42,360 Speaker 1: you so much. Happy to be here, all right, take 1251 01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:47,240 Speaker 1: care you too. All the Wiser is produced by Erica 1252 01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:52,120 Speaker 1: Girard of pod Kit Productions. Our composer and sound designer 1253 01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:57,240 Speaker 1: is John LaSala, and our associate producer is Tara Daegel. 1254 01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:01,160 Speaker 1: We would love to know what you thought of this 1255 01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:05,360 Speaker 1: episode and Maine story. You can share your thoughts on 1256 01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:09,479 Speaker 1: our brand new All the Wiser Facebook group and connect 1257 01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:14,320 Speaker 1: with other listeners in our community who I Adore. You 1258 01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:17,120 Speaker 1: can find the link in our show notes or on 1259 01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:21,479 Speaker 1: our Instagram page at All the Wiser Podcast. Thank you 1260 01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:25,600 Speaker 1: for listening, and until next time, take care of yourself 1261 01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:26,360 Speaker 1: and each other.