WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Melissa Witt

0:00:08.245 --> 0:00:09.765
<v Speaker 1>School of Humans.

0:00:11.205 --> 0:00:14.325
<v Speaker 2>Over the past five years making my true crime podcast,

0:00:14.365 --> 0:00:17.645
<v Speaker 2>Helen Gone, I've learned that there is no such thing

0:00:17.805 --> 0:00:21.165
<v Speaker 2>as a small town where murder never happens. I have

0:00:21.325 --> 0:00:24.605
<v Speaker 2>received hundreds of messages from people all around the country

0:00:24.965 --> 0:00:27.645
<v Speaker 2>asking for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them,

0:00:27.965 --> 0:00:32.165
<v Speaker 2>their families, and their communities. And now they have a

0:00:32.165 --> 0:00:36.285
<v Speaker 2>new way to reach out. I'm Catherine Townsend. This is

0:00:36.365 --> 0:00:39.805
<v Speaker 2>Hell and Gone Murder Line. If you have a case

0:00:39.845 --> 0:00:42.245
<v Speaker 2>you'd like me and my team to look into, you

0:00:42.285 --> 0:00:45.205
<v Speaker 2>can reach out to us at six seven eight seven

0:00:45.285 --> 0:00:49.405
<v Speaker 2>four four six one four five. That's six seven eight

0:00:49.725 --> 0:00:56.885
<v Speaker 2>seven four four six one four five. Thursday, December first,

0:00:57.045 --> 0:01:00.005
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety four started out as just a normal day

0:01:00.125 --> 0:01:04.565
<v Speaker 2>for Melissa missy Wit. Melissa was a nineteen year old

0:01:04.565 --> 0:01:06.765
<v Speaker 2>college student who's still lived at home with her mom,

0:01:06.845 --> 0:01:09.565
<v Speaker 2>mary Anne, with on a quiet street in a quiet

0:01:09.645 --> 0:01:13.925
<v Speaker 2>neighborhood in Fort Smith, Arkansas. Melissa was Marianne's only daughter,

0:01:14.045 --> 0:01:18.765
<v Speaker 2>and Melissa was her whole world. In interviews later, Marianne

0:01:18.765 --> 0:01:21.125
<v Speaker 2>talked about how she'd been almost forty years old when

0:01:21.125 --> 0:01:24.205
<v Speaker 2>Melissa was born. Melissa's dad, Johnny, was fifty four at

0:01:24.205 --> 0:01:27.925
<v Speaker 2>the time. Today that's more common, especially in places like

0:01:27.965 --> 0:01:29.445
<v Speaker 2>New York City, where I've spent a lot of my

0:01:29.445 --> 0:01:33.005
<v Speaker 2>adult life, but back then, in small town Arkansas, it

0:01:33.125 --> 0:01:37.565
<v Speaker 2>was definitely not. Because they were so close. Mary Anne

0:01:37.645 --> 0:01:41.485
<v Speaker 2>was always very protective of Melissa. She always thought about safety.

0:01:42.525 --> 0:01:45.645
<v Speaker 2>Fort Smith had around seventy five thousand people living there

0:01:45.845 --> 0:01:49.525
<v Speaker 2>back in the early nineties with a military base. It

0:01:49.605 --> 0:01:52.845
<v Speaker 2>was much larger and more diverse than say, a lot

0:01:52.885 --> 0:01:55.565
<v Speaker 2>of towns in the Ozarks, but it still had that

0:01:55.645 --> 0:01:59.085
<v Speaker 2>small town feel. When Melissa was growing up. It was

0:01:59.125 --> 0:02:02.205
<v Speaker 2>the kind of place where kids rode their bikes around

0:02:02.205 --> 0:02:06.165
<v Speaker 2>town and entertained themselves after school. On that December morning

0:02:06.285 --> 0:02:09.325
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen ninety four, Melissa asked mary Anne if she

0:02:09.325 --> 0:02:12.645
<v Speaker 2>could borrow twenty dollars. Mary Anne was trying to teach

0:02:12.685 --> 0:02:16.885
<v Speaker 2>Melissa about smarter budgeting, so she said no. Melissa and

0:02:16.925 --> 0:02:19.325
<v Speaker 2>mary Anne actually got into a little argument over this,

0:02:19.845 --> 0:02:22.765
<v Speaker 2>and Melissa left the house that day without them resolving it.

0:02:23.885 --> 0:02:26.965
<v Speaker 2>After Melissa left, mary Anne felt bad about the argument,

0:02:27.525 --> 0:02:29.885
<v Speaker 2>so she left Melissa a note telling her to come

0:02:29.885 --> 0:02:32.645
<v Speaker 2>to Bowling World that night, where mary Anne was part

0:02:32.685 --> 0:02:35.885
<v Speaker 2>of a lady's bowling league. In the note, mary Anne

0:02:35.925 --> 0:02:38.485
<v Speaker 2>apologized for getting upset with her and offered to buy

0:02:38.525 --> 0:02:40.445
<v Speaker 2>her a hamburger when they saw each other that night,

0:02:41.245 --> 0:02:45.525
<v Speaker 2>she signed the note love Mom. Melissa did go to

0:02:45.565 --> 0:02:48.325
<v Speaker 2>meet her mom that night at Bowling World, but she

0:02:48.485 --> 0:02:54.365
<v Speaker 2>never made it inside. Instead, Melissa disappeared and Mary Anne

0:02:54.685 --> 0:02:59.085
<v Speaker 2>never saw her daughter alive again. For days, no one

0:02:59.165 --> 0:03:03.565
<v Speaker 2>noticed that Melissa's brand new white nineteen ninety five Mitsubishi

0:03:03.605 --> 0:03:06.165
<v Speaker 2>Mirage was parked in a far corner of that parking lot,

0:03:06.845 --> 0:03:08.445
<v Speaker 2>and no one noticed the blood.

0:03:09.325 --> 0:03:12.965
<v Speaker 3>Are you and it's being lookout for? A Melissa Whitt

0:03:13.445 --> 0:03:17.525
<v Speaker 3>be a white female nineteen years of age fot five,

0:03:18.645 --> 0:03:25.765
<v Speaker 3>have hazel eyes, brownish blond hair. I've seen Thursday, December First.

0:03:27.885 --> 0:04:15.405
<v Speaker 2>I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line.

0:04:16.165 --> 0:04:17.565
<v Speaker 4>Hi Catherine, this is LaDonna.

0:04:17.845 --> 0:04:20.605
<v Speaker 1>I just wanted to talk to you about the Melissa whitcase.

0:04:21.605 --> 0:04:24.765
<v Speaker 2>I was introduced to the Melissa Whit case through Lodonna Humphrey,

0:04:25.365 --> 0:04:29.565
<v Speaker 2>a private investigator and native of Northwest Arkansas. We've been

0:04:29.605 --> 0:04:32.125
<v Speaker 2>talking about Melissa's case for a couple of years now.

0:04:32.845 --> 0:04:36.005
<v Speaker 2>Lodonna has devoted years of her life to investigating the

0:04:36.045 --> 0:04:39.205
<v Speaker 2>case and to getting justice from Melissa's family and friends.

0:04:40.005 --> 0:04:43.045
<v Speaker 2>She's also written two books about Melissa called The Girl

0:04:43.085 --> 0:04:46.805
<v Speaker 2>I Never Knew and Strangled, and made a documentary about

0:04:46.805 --> 0:04:49.525
<v Speaker 2>the case called Uneven Ground The Melissa Whit Story.

0:04:50.165 --> 0:04:51.045
<v Speaker 4>I have been a part of.

0:04:50.965 --> 0:04:54.685
<v Speaker 1>A nonprofit that I had founded called Let's Bring Them Home.

0:04:55.005 --> 0:05:00.165
<v Speaker 1>We offered support to families who had adult cases that

0:05:00.205 --> 0:05:03.365
<v Speaker 1>had gone missing, and we acted as a liaison between

0:05:03.405 --> 0:05:05.765
<v Speaker 1>the family and law enforcement, and we wanted to film

0:05:05.765 --> 0:05:10.325
<v Speaker 1>a documentary. Our team got together and everyone kept bringing

0:05:10.405 --> 0:05:13.965
<v Speaker 1>up the Melissa Wit case, and I was really actually

0:05:13.965 --> 0:05:16.645
<v Speaker 1>against it in the beginning because obviously she's.

0:05:16.485 --> 0:05:18.685
<v Speaker 4>Not a long term missing case. They found her body

0:05:18.725 --> 0:05:19.645
<v Speaker 4>six weeks after.

0:05:19.485 --> 0:05:23.245
<v Speaker 1>She disappeared, but the team out voted me, sent me

0:05:23.325 --> 0:05:24.725
<v Speaker 1>to Fort Smith, and really.

0:05:24.645 --> 0:05:25.845
<v Speaker 4>Kind of the rest is history.

0:05:26.005 --> 0:05:29.005
<v Speaker 1>Once I met with law enforcement and realized how passionate

0:05:29.005 --> 0:05:31.005
<v Speaker 1>they were about the case, I knew that I needed

0:05:31.005 --> 0:05:35.565
<v Speaker 1>to get involved, and was initially just for the documentary,

0:05:35.605 --> 0:05:38.125
<v Speaker 1>and then it really morphed into me being more involved

0:05:38.205 --> 0:05:40.325
<v Speaker 1>in the day to day things that were happening with

0:05:40.365 --> 0:05:40.845
<v Speaker 1>her case.

0:05:42.005 --> 0:05:44.925
<v Speaker 2>Lo Donna had a unique experience. She was able to

0:05:44.965 --> 0:05:47.365
<v Speaker 2>gain the trust of j c Ryder, who was the

0:05:47.445 --> 0:05:52.205
<v Speaker 2>lead investigator on Melissa's case for yearsle Donna got access

0:05:52.205 --> 0:05:52.885
<v Speaker 2>to the case file.

0:05:54.125 --> 0:05:57.565
<v Speaker 1>I had brought some information to them in my initial

0:05:57.605 --> 0:06:01.765
<v Speaker 1>work with the documentary that started putting some pieces together.

0:06:01.525 --> 0:06:06.285
<v Speaker 4>For them and kind of led them to a.

0:06:06.205 --> 0:06:09.605
<v Speaker 1>Suspect that they've had all along, okay, because he started

0:06:09.645 --> 0:06:10.325
<v Speaker 1>contacting me.

0:06:10.365 --> 0:06:12.605
<v Speaker 4>Because this was before I was a private investigator. I

0:06:12.645 --> 0:06:16.485
<v Speaker 4>was just normal citizen, you know, filmmaker doing my thing.

0:06:16.885 --> 0:06:19.725
<v Speaker 4>And I think that they realized that this.

0:06:19.565 --> 0:06:22.205
<v Speaker 1>Could be a perfect storm really for the whitb case

0:06:22.285 --> 0:06:24.805
<v Speaker 1>because it was bringing renewed interest. But not only that,

0:06:25.285 --> 0:06:28.765
<v Speaker 1>there was information that was coming into the case that

0:06:28.885 --> 0:06:30.765
<v Speaker 1>was valuable that I was turning.

0:06:30.485 --> 0:06:32.365
<v Speaker 4>Over to them that they had never gotten before.

0:06:32.645 --> 0:06:36.725
<v Speaker 1>And they made a decision then as a department that

0:06:37.045 --> 0:06:38.485
<v Speaker 1>they were going to allow me to.

0:06:38.445 --> 0:06:40.525
<v Speaker 4>See the case files. There was a bunch of rules

0:06:40.525 --> 0:06:40.965
<v Speaker 4>around it.

0:06:41.085 --> 0:06:43.285
<v Speaker 1>I couldn't take any of it with me, you know,

0:06:43.285 --> 0:06:47.485
<v Speaker 1>I couldn't share the information in the film some of it.

0:06:47.565 --> 0:06:49.605
<v Speaker 4>But they felt like I needed to know some of the.

0:06:49.565 --> 0:06:52.445
<v Speaker 1>Information basically because I was dealing with some of the

0:06:52.565 --> 0:06:57.165
<v Speaker 1>characters that they were looking at really closely in Melissa's murder.

0:06:57.325 --> 0:07:00.565
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, it was interesting because that doesn't happen very often.

0:07:00.525 --> 0:07:02.045
<v Speaker 4>And they allow me.

0:07:02.045 --> 0:07:04.085
<v Speaker 1>To the day to continue to stay involved in the

0:07:04.125 --> 0:07:07.525
<v Speaker 1>case because now more of a partnership than anything else

0:07:07.725 --> 0:07:10.525
<v Speaker 1>to get justice from Melissa.

0:07:11.045 --> 0:07:13.165
<v Speaker 2>We're going to go through some of the theories in

0:07:13.205 --> 0:07:16.165
<v Speaker 2>the case, but first we have to go back to

0:07:16.205 --> 0:07:19.565
<v Speaker 2>the beginning, to the last twenty four hours of Melissa's

0:07:19.605 --> 0:07:23.925
<v Speaker 2>life to see if there's anything that we missed. Melissa

0:07:24.005 --> 0:07:28.365
<v Speaker 2>was pretty bubbly, friendly and kind. Her friend Tara, talked

0:07:28.365 --> 0:07:31.125
<v Speaker 2>to local news channel News five about how she became

0:07:31.205 --> 0:07:33.685
<v Speaker 2>fast friends with Melissa when they were around five or

0:07:33.725 --> 0:07:36.685
<v Speaker 2>six years old. She said that they would ride their

0:07:36.725 --> 0:07:39.765
<v Speaker 2>bikes around town and go to local fast food restaurants

0:07:39.805 --> 0:07:43.125
<v Speaker 2>like KFC and Hardy's. They would buy candy cigarettes and

0:07:43.125 --> 0:07:45.805
<v Speaker 2>pretend to smoke them. When they got to high school,

0:07:46.365 --> 0:07:50.485
<v Speaker 2>Tara said Melissa always retained that friendly innocence. They would

0:07:50.525 --> 0:07:53.565
<v Speaker 2>cruise around town on the weekends. Melissa would talk about

0:07:53.605 --> 0:07:56.565
<v Speaker 2>boys who she thought were cute, but for the most part,

0:07:56.805 --> 0:08:00.845
<v Speaker 2>Tara said, Melissa remained focused on school. Melissa was an

0:08:00.885 --> 0:08:03.965
<v Speaker 2>honor student and a cheerleader. She didn't have a regular

0:08:03.965 --> 0:08:06.085
<v Speaker 2>boyfriend in high school, but she did have lots of

0:08:06.085 --> 0:08:11.485
<v Speaker 2>friends After graduation, Melissa enrolled at West Dark Community College,

0:08:11.685 --> 0:08:13.805
<v Speaker 2>which is now part of the University of Arkansas at

0:08:13.805 --> 0:08:17.525
<v Speaker 2>Fort Smith. Melissa also had a part time job at

0:08:17.525 --> 0:08:21.245
<v Speaker 2>a dentist's office. She was studying to be a dental assistant.

0:08:22.005 --> 0:08:25.445
<v Speaker 2>On that Thursday, after leaving home, Melissa had classes in

0:08:25.485 --> 0:08:28.205
<v Speaker 2>the morning, then she had lunch with a friend at

0:08:28.205 --> 0:08:31.925
<v Speaker 2>the mall. That afternoon, she went over to Family Dentistry,

0:08:32.005 --> 0:08:35.365
<v Speaker 2>the dentist office where she worked. The dentist, doctor Jennings,

0:08:35.445 --> 0:08:37.965
<v Speaker 2>and the rest of her colleagues said Melissa was her

0:08:38.005 --> 0:08:41.645
<v Speaker 2>happy and normal, bubbly self. Nothing seemed out of the

0:08:41.725 --> 0:08:46.205
<v Speaker 2>ordinary that day. Melissa left work a little after five pm.

0:08:46.685 --> 0:08:50.325
<v Speaker 2>But then something out of the ordinary did happen, because

0:08:50.365 --> 0:08:54.085
<v Speaker 2>when she got outside, her car wouldn't start. Now, a

0:08:54.125 --> 0:08:57.765
<v Speaker 2>woman Melissa worked with told five News that what happened

0:08:57.805 --> 0:09:00.045
<v Speaker 2>was Melissa had left her lights on for too long,

0:09:00.565 --> 0:09:03.725
<v Speaker 2>so she needed to get a jump. This coworker said

0:09:03.725 --> 0:09:06.445
<v Speaker 2>they were looking for someone with jumper cable. They went

0:09:06.525 --> 0:09:08.485
<v Speaker 2>next door and found a guy who worked at a

0:09:08.485 --> 0:09:11.725
<v Speaker 2>business there. This was the person La Donna called the

0:09:11.725 --> 0:09:15.445
<v Speaker 2>Good Samaritan in her book. The Good Samaritan helped Melissa

0:09:15.525 --> 0:09:19.485
<v Speaker 2>jumpstarter car. The coworker told the news station that she

0:09:19.605 --> 0:09:22.805
<v Speaker 2>stayed to watch Melissa start the jump process. Then when

0:09:22.805 --> 0:09:25.485
<v Speaker 2>the cables were attached, she told Melissa to just leave

0:09:25.525 --> 0:09:27.965
<v Speaker 2>her car running for like fifteen minutes to make sure

0:09:28.005 --> 0:09:32.645
<v Speaker 2>the battery was charged. Then the coworker left. Now, in

0:09:32.725 --> 0:09:36.525
<v Speaker 2>her book and in multiple media reports, we learned that

0:09:36.605 --> 0:09:39.525
<v Speaker 2>the Good Samaritan was cleared by police pretty early in

0:09:39.565 --> 0:09:44.445
<v Speaker 2>the investigation. But as we know from previous seasons of Helengne,

0:09:45.125 --> 0:09:49.445
<v Speaker 2>we can't assume anything. I asked LaDonna about the Good Samaritan.

0:09:50.325 --> 0:09:53.005
<v Speaker 4>You know, obviously when someone goes missing, as you know,

0:09:53.365 --> 0:09:56.245
<v Speaker 4>they're going to look at the day's activities closely.

0:09:56.285 --> 0:09:59.325
<v Speaker 1>And of course that was pretty suspicious to law enforcement

0:09:59.485 --> 0:10:02.925
<v Speaker 1>because to have her car not started, and they looked

0:10:02.925 --> 0:10:05.805
<v Speaker 1>at that really, really closely. The Good Samaritan, who they

0:10:05.845 --> 0:10:08.885
<v Speaker 1>try not to name just to not disrupt his life,

0:10:09.405 --> 0:10:13.485
<v Speaker 1>he worked nearby to the dental office, and as it

0:10:13.525 --> 0:10:16.245
<v Speaker 1>turns out, she had left her lights on her car

0:10:16.645 --> 0:10:18.725
<v Speaker 1>most of the day, starting from when she had been

0:10:18.765 --> 0:10:21.525
<v Speaker 1>at the mall to have lunch, and that's what killed

0:10:21.525 --> 0:10:25.165
<v Speaker 1>the battery, and so they looked at him so closely.

0:10:25.365 --> 0:10:28.805
<v Speaker 1>In fact, I think He was probably interviewed maybe half

0:10:28.845 --> 0:10:30.165
<v Speaker 1>a dozen times.

0:10:29.885 --> 0:10:33.645
<v Speaker 4>And he just had no connection to what had happened

0:10:33.645 --> 0:10:33.965
<v Speaker 4>to her.

0:10:34.485 --> 0:10:37.125
<v Speaker 1>It was one of those things that you know, he

0:10:37.285 --> 0:10:38.845
<v Speaker 1>was a good smart and he helped her, but it

0:10:38.845 --> 0:10:40.485
<v Speaker 1>was almost like he was at the wrong place at

0:10:40.485 --> 0:10:43.205
<v Speaker 1>the wrong time because she went missing that day, but

0:10:43.285 --> 0:10:45.205
<v Speaker 1>he was completely cleared by law enforcement.

0:10:46.285 --> 0:10:50.165
<v Speaker 2>After getting her car started, Melissa drove home, which was

0:10:50.205 --> 0:10:53.125
<v Speaker 2>just a few minutes from the dental office. She left

0:10:53.165 --> 0:10:55.245
<v Speaker 2>work at five point fifty, so this would have put

0:10:55.245 --> 0:10:59.045
<v Speaker 2>her home a little after six. Her dental scrubs were

0:10:59.045 --> 0:11:01.805
<v Speaker 2>found crumpled up on her bedroom floor, like she had

0:11:01.845 --> 0:11:04.725
<v Speaker 2>taken them off to do a quick clothing change, and

0:11:04.765 --> 0:11:08.245
<v Speaker 2>her mom later told investigators that, based on the clothes

0:11:08.285 --> 0:11:11.965
<v Speaker 2>that were missing, Melissa changed into jeans, a white V

0:11:12.085 --> 0:11:15.885
<v Speaker 2>neck sweater, silver hoop, earrings with a wavy pattern on them,

0:11:16.005 --> 0:11:20.445
<v Speaker 2>and a Mickey Mouse wristwatch. Police figured out later that

0:11:20.565 --> 0:11:24.725
<v Speaker 2>Melissa must have seen her mother's note because Melissa then

0:11:24.805 --> 0:11:29.365
<v Speaker 2>headed out to Bowling World. Investigators estimated Melissa arrived at

0:11:29.365 --> 0:11:33.205
<v Speaker 2>Bowling World between six point thirty and seven PM. Now

0:11:33.245 --> 0:11:35.845
<v Speaker 2>at that time, the parking lot would have been pretty full.

0:11:36.405 --> 0:11:39.765
<v Speaker 2>The Bowling League was popular. By the time Melissa got there,

0:11:39.885 --> 0:11:43.205
<v Speaker 2>pretty much everyone would have been inside, which is part

0:11:43.205 --> 0:11:46.645
<v Speaker 2>of the reason why police later could not find many witnesses.

0:11:47.485 --> 0:11:52.005
<v Speaker 2>But Melissa never made it inside. Mary Anne, of course

0:11:52.085 --> 0:11:55.205
<v Speaker 2>noticed that Melissa never showed up at Bowling World, and

0:11:55.285 --> 0:11:57.685
<v Speaker 2>after she got home and saw Melissa's car was not

0:11:57.725 --> 0:12:02.605
<v Speaker 2>there at the house, she got worried. Maryanne called Melissa's friends,

0:12:03.005 --> 0:12:07.005
<v Speaker 2>but no one had seen her. Next morning, Friday morning,

0:12:07.365 --> 0:12:10.045
<v Speaker 2>Melissa's friend Tara, said that her mother walked into her

0:12:10.125 --> 0:12:13.365
<v Speaker 2>room and asked if she'd heard from Melissa. Her mom

0:12:13.405 --> 0:12:15.765
<v Speaker 2>said mary Anne had called the house looking for Melissa.

0:12:16.325 --> 0:12:18.885
<v Speaker 2>Tara said no, but she said they were supposed to

0:12:18.885 --> 0:12:21.565
<v Speaker 2>go out on that Friday night. She figured they would

0:12:21.605 --> 0:12:25.805
<v Speaker 2>catch up later. Then Tara went to class. They had

0:12:25.845 --> 0:12:28.485
<v Speaker 2>a biology class together, and when Melissa didn't show up

0:12:28.485 --> 0:12:33.005
<v Speaker 2>in that biology class, Tara immediately suspected something bad had happened.

0:12:33.645 --> 0:12:38.245
<v Speaker 2>This was not like Melissa. Melissa was extremely responsible. That's

0:12:38.285 --> 0:12:41.805
<v Speaker 2>when Marianne went to the police. But then the first

0:12:41.845 --> 0:12:44.485
<v Speaker 2>officer to talk to mary Anne, in my opinion, made

0:12:44.525 --> 0:12:48.445
<v Speaker 2>a crucial and unfortunately a far too common error. We

0:12:48.565 --> 0:12:50.965
<v Speaker 2>see this over and over in this podcast and in

0:12:50.965 --> 0:12:54.805
<v Speaker 2>our investigations. Mary Anne was talking about what happened that morning,

0:12:54.925 --> 0:12:57.805
<v Speaker 2>and she mentioned that small argument she had gotten into

0:12:57.845 --> 0:13:01.325
<v Speaker 2>with Melissa over the twenty dollars that apparently led the

0:13:01.405 --> 0:13:04.485
<v Speaker 2>officer to believe that Melissa could have been a runaway.

0:13:05.245 --> 0:13:09.805
<v Speaker 2>Since Melissa was over eighteen and was an adult, of course,

0:13:09.885 --> 0:13:12.645
<v Speaker 2>she did have the right to disappear voluntarily, but mary

0:13:12.645 --> 0:13:16.045
<v Speaker 2>Anne and all Melissa's friends kept telling police there was

0:13:16.045 --> 0:13:18.485
<v Speaker 2>no way she would do that. This was not like Melissa,

0:13:18.805 --> 0:13:21.965
<v Speaker 2>this was completely out of character. She would not just disappear.

0:13:22.885 --> 0:13:26.805
<v Speaker 2>Because of this delay by police, crucial hours in the

0:13:26.805 --> 0:13:31.085
<v Speaker 2>beginning of the investigation were lost. Melissa's family did not

0:13:31.125 --> 0:13:33.605
<v Speaker 2>want to wait, so they got together with some of

0:13:33.605 --> 0:13:35.725
<v Speaker 2>her friends and other members of the community and they

0:13:35.765 --> 0:13:39.245
<v Speaker 2>started searching for her. They printed thousands of flyers with

0:13:39.285 --> 0:13:41.965
<v Speaker 2>Melissa's picture on them. They also put her picture on

0:13:42.005 --> 0:13:45.925
<v Speaker 2>billboards around town. Local news media took the story and

0:13:46.045 --> 0:13:49.005
<v Speaker 2>ran with it, and once that story hit local news,

0:13:49.285 --> 0:13:52.885
<v Speaker 2>a crucial tip came in. A Bowling World employee called

0:13:52.885 --> 0:13:55.285
<v Speaker 2>the police and told them that on the night Melissa

0:13:55.285 --> 0:13:58.525
<v Speaker 2>went missing, a construction worker and his family turned in

0:13:58.565 --> 0:14:01.165
<v Speaker 2>a set of keys they found in the parking lot.

0:14:01.365 --> 0:14:04.525
<v Speaker 2>This happened at around seven forty five PM, so this

0:14:04.565 --> 0:14:06.765
<v Speaker 2>would have been just a few minutes after police say

0:14:06.805 --> 0:14:10.645
<v Speaker 2>Melissa arrived at Bowling World. The key ring had Missy

0:14:10.685 --> 0:14:15.445
<v Speaker 2>written on it. The keys belonged to Melissa. Later forensic

0:14:15.485 --> 0:14:18.965
<v Speaker 2>testing would reveal they had tiny specks of blood on them.

0:14:19.485 --> 0:14:22.765
<v Speaker 2>At that point police did suspect foul play. They turned

0:14:22.765 --> 0:14:25.605
<v Speaker 2>the case over to the Fort Smith Major Crimes Unit

0:14:26.205 --> 0:14:29.125
<v Speaker 2>and that's when investigator J. C. Rder took over the case.

0:14:30.005 --> 0:14:32.885
<v Speaker 2>Now should mention here that J. C Ryder has his

0:14:32.965 --> 0:14:37.125
<v Speaker 2>own checkered history. Ledonna has worked with him for years.

0:14:37.645 --> 0:14:40.525
<v Speaker 2>She presents him as a competent, carrying investigator who's been

0:14:40.525 --> 0:14:43.365
<v Speaker 2>instrumental in getting the word out about Melissa WIT's case

0:14:43.845 --> 0:14:47.725
<v Speaker 2>and never giving up. But as you all know, I

0:14:47.765 --> 0:14:50.965
<v Speaker 2>don't take anything for granted, including the backgrounds of the

0:14:50.965 --> 0:14:55.365
<v Speaker 2>people investigating the case. The allegations against J. C. Rider

0:14:55.485 --> 0:14:57.965
<v Speaker 2>go back to a man named Ron Fields. He was

0:14:58.005 --> 0:15:00.725
<v Speaker 2>the deputy prosecuting attorney in Fort Smith from the late

0:15:00.805 --> 0:15:04.205
<v Speaker 2>seventies until two thousand and five. Back in nineteen ninety five,

0:15:04.285 --> 0:15:07.205
<v Speaker 2>when J. C Ryder was p police captain, the FBI

0:15:07.405 --> 0:15:11.685
<v Speaker 2>investigated claims that ron Fields was dealing drugs and operating

0:15:11.765 --> 0:15:14.365
<v Speaker 2>basically a hit squad that some people compared to the

0:15:14.405 --> 0:15:18.365
<v Speaker 2>movie That Departed Inside the Fort Smith Police Department, the

0:15:18.445 --> 0:15:23.005
<v Speaker 2>FBI investigated allegations that ron Fields ordered j. C Ryder

0:15:23.045 --> 0:15:26.285
<v Speaker 2>to kill a woman named Lourie Murchison and to get

0:15:26.365 --> 0:15:28.885
<v Speaker 2>rid of her body. We're actually going to do an

0:15:29.045 --> 0:15:33.525
<v Speaker 2>entirely separate episode about Lourie Murchison. It's way too complex

0:15:33.565 --> 0:15:37.285
<v Speaker 2>and comprehensive to cover here, but needless to say, ron

0:15:37.405 --> 0:15:42.485
<v Speaker 2>Fields later became a suspect in Laurie's disappearance. J c Ryder,

0:15:42.565 --> 0:15:46.325
<v Speaker 2>through his attorneys, has always maintained that those federal charges

0:15:46.405 --> 0:15:50.285
<v Speaker 2>were completely ridiculous and not true. Jac's lawyer at the

0:15:50.285 --> 0:15:54.565
<v Speaker 2>time told the Arkansas Democrat Gazette that their quote absolutely nuts.

0:15:55.205 --> 0:15:58.725
<v Speaker 2>The lawyer said the FBI basically went in and intimidated

0:15:58.765 --> 0:16:02.205
<v Speaker 2>and threatened people to give them information. The lawyer said

0:16:02.205 --> 0:16:05.765
<v Speaker 2>the whole thing was a witch hunt. The police detective

0:16:05.805 --> 0:16:08.525
<v Speaker 2>who led the investigation into Lourie's death also back j

0:16:08.645 --> 0:16:12.725
<v Speaker 2>c Ryder. The detective said the evidence pointed to Lourie

0:16:12.805 --> 0:16:15.965
<v Speaker 2>dying of a drug overdose and that there was a

0:16:16.005 --> 0:16:19.125
<v Speaker 2>suspect in that case, someone who was imprisoned in Oklahoma,

0:16:19.125 --> 0:16:22.525
<v Speaker 2>a place where Lourie traveled often, but the detective said

0:16:22.525 --> 0:16:24.845
<v Speaker 2>they just didn't have enough evidence to charge that person

0:16:24.965 --> 0:16:29.725
<v Speaker 2>in connection with Laurie's death. Going back to Melissa wit So,

0:16:29.885 --> 0:16:34.045
<v Speaker 2>now it's December fourth, three days after Melissa disappeared. J. C.

0:16:34.245 --> 0:16:36.605
<v Speaker 2>Ryder was assigned to the case. He and his fellow

0:16:36.645 --> 0:16:40.845
<v Speaker 2>detectives immediately searched the parking lot of Bowling World and

0:16:40.925 --> 0:16:44.405
<v Speaker 2>they found Melissa's white car abandoned there in the northwest

0:16:44.405 --> 0:16:48.325
<v Speaker 2>corner of the parking lot, so her car had been

0:16:48.365 --> 0:16:49.965
<v Speaker 2>sitting there for three days.

0:16:50.525 --> 0:16:50.685
<v Speaker 1>Now.

0:16:50.725 --> 0:16:52.925
<v Speaker 2>This seemed a little bit weird at first that no

0:16:52.965 --> 0:16:56.845
<v Speaker 2>one noticed that, but Melissa's mom hadn't seen it because

0:16:56.925 --> 0:16:58.845
<v Speaker 2>again it was in the outer part of the lot

0:16:59.485 --> 0:17:01.845
<v Speaker 2>when she came out and didn't see Melissa that night,

0:17:01.925 --> 0:17:04.725
<v Speaker 2>she just assumed that Melissa never came to Bowling World.

0:17:05.805 --> 0:17:09.325
<v Speaker 2>Officers searched around that car and they found drops of blood.

0:17:10.125 --> 0:17:13.005
<v Speaker 2>Melissa's blood had never been tested, so they couldn't confirm

0:17:13.045 --> 0:17:15.525
<v Speaker 2>then that it was a match. But the drops of

0:17:15.525 --> 0:17:18.725
<v Speaker 2>blood led pretty much from Melissa's vehicle over to the

0:17:18.765 --> 0:17:22.725
<v Speaker 2>next row of cars. So the police theory was that

0:17:22.725 --> 0:17:26.845
<v Speaker 2>Melissa was attacked and thrown into someone else's vehicle, and

0:17:26.885 --> 0:17:30.045
<v Speaker 2>that the blood either came from her being hit, probably

0:17:30.045 --> 0:17:32.925
<v Speaker 2>with a blunt force object, or when her head hit

0:17:32.965 --> 0:17:37.685
<v Speaker 2>the parking lot pavement. Now police had what they believed

0:17:37.685 --> 0:17:44.405
<v Speaker 2>to be the primary crime scene, they started looking for witnesses. Initially,

0:17:44.485 --> 0:17:47.845
<v Speaker 2>there were reports that witnesses had seen Melissa with someone

0:17:47.885 --> 0:17:51.885
<v Speaker 2>they described as a black, six foot two male. Rumors

0:17:51.925 --> 0:17:54.125
<v Speaker 2>were flying that she had been involved in drug deals

0:17:54.205 --> 0:17:57.525
<v Speaker 2>or sex trafficking, mainly because at the time there were

0:17:57.565 --> 0:18:01.325
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people who dealt drugs, especially methamphetamines, near

0:18:01.365 --> 0:18:06.805
<v Speaker 2>Fort Chaffee, the military base, but that sighting was later

0:18:06.885 --> 0:18:11.765
<v Speaker 2>confirmed to be a totally erroneous mistake. Police did eventually

0:18:11.805 --> 0:18:14.885
<v Speaker 2>find someone who was a credible witness, a ten year

0:18:14.885 --> 0:18:17.165
<v Speaker 2>old boy who was actually the son of one of

0:18:17.165 --> 0:18:21.525
<v Speaker 2>mary Anne's friends. While his mom was playing with mary

0:18:21.525 --> 0:18:24.165
<v Speaker 2>Anne in the bowling league that night, she sent him

0:18:24.165 --> 0:18:26.165
<v Speaker 2>out to the car to get some textbooks so he

0:18:26.165 --> 0:18:29.405
<v Speaker 2>could start doing his homework. When the boy came back in,

0:18:29.805 --> 0:18:32.045
<v Speaker 2>he said that he saw a man and a woman

0:18:32.165 --> 0:18:35.365
<v Speaker 2>fighting in the parking lot. At the time, his mom

0:18:35.405 --> 0:18:39.245
<v Speaker 2>didn't think too much about it, but police later believed

0:18:39.365 --> 0:18:44.165
<v Speaker 2>that he witnessed Melissa with her abductor. Unfortunately, the boy

0:18:44.205 --> 0:18:47.085
<v Speaker 2>didn't see enough of the kidnapper's appearance to make a

0:18:47.085 --> 0:18:51.445
<v Speaker 2>full sketch. Another early missing poster said Melissa had been

0:18:51.445 --> 0:18:55.885
<v Speaker 2>spotted quote possibly in nineteen eighty one gray Oldsmobile cutlass

0:18:56.165 --> 0:18:58.565
<v Speaker 2>with a tall, white male with black, wavy hair and

0:18:58.645 --> 0:19:01.885
<v Speaker 2>an earring end quote. I saw this tip on a

0:19:01.885 --> 0:19:04.805
<v Speaker 2>missing poster from an old news report, and I still

0:19:04.845 --> 0:19:07.645
<v Speaker 2>don't know who were hoarded it or where that came from.

0:19:08.165 --> 0:19:10.965
<v Speaker 2>As with so many investigations that get a lot of press,

0:19:11.645 --> 0:19:14.445
<v Speaker 2>thousands of tips were flooding in. So now police had

0:19:14.445 --> 0:19:16.605
<v Speaker 2>to figure out which ones were good leads and which

0:19:16.645 --> 0:19:20.245
<v Speaker 2>ones were dead ends. Everyone in town had a theory

0:19:20.325 --> 0:19:23.285
<v Speaker 2>about who could have killed Melissa. Was it a drug

0:19:23.325 --> 0:19:25.845
<v Speaker 2>deal gone bad? Was it a random serial killer who

0:19:25.885 --> 0:19:29.445
<v Speaker 2>came in off Interstate five while passing through town, or

0:19:29.525 --> 0:19:33.845
<v Speaker 2>was it someone she knew. Melissa's personal life didn't seem

0:19:34.005 --> 0:19:36.725
<v Speaker 2>to offer a lot of clues at first. She was

0:19:36.765 --> 0:19:39.725
<v Speaker 2>well liked, She didn't have any enemies. She also didn't

0:19:39.765 --> 0:19:43.365
<v Speaker 2>have any turmoil in her personal relationship, no fighting with

0:19:43.405 --> 0:19:47.125
<v Speaker 2>boyfriends or at least not ones that anyone knew about.

0:19:47.445 --> 0:19:51.005
<v Speaker 2>The holiday season passed mary Anne's first one without her daughter.

0:19:52.165 --> 0:19:56.005
<v Speaker 2>No one had a clue what happened to Melissa. Almost

0:19:56.085 --> 0:20:00.245
<v Speaker 2>six weeks later, on January thirteenth, nineteen ninety five, two

0:20:00.325 --> 0:20:03.205
<v Speaker 2>hunters were near Turner Bend in the Ozark National Forest

0:20:03.605 --> 0:20:08.245
<v Speaker 2>when they saw a nude body. Dental records proved this

0:20:08.605 --> 0:20:13.645
<v Speaker 2>was Melissa Whit. Melissa had been found. This was tragic,

0:20:14.325 --> 0:20:16.805
<v Speaker 2>but detectives hope now they would be able to gather

0:20:16.885 --> 0:20:19.645
<v Speaker 2>evidence from her body, hopefully evidence that would get them

0:20:19.685 --> 0:20:24.205
<v Speaker 2>closer to finding her killer. Melissa was naked, so all

0:20:24.245 --> 0:20:28.245
<v Speaker 2>of her clothing, shoes, and jewelry, including her other earring

0:20:28.765 --> 0:20:31.485
<v Speaker 2>and her Mickey Mouse watch with a brown band, were

0:20:31.525 --> 0:20:37.125
<v Speaker 2>all missing. Her autopsy revealed blunt forest head injuries, either

0:20:37.165 --> 0:20:39.685
<v Speaker 2>from an object she was struck with or possibly from

0:20:39.685 --> 0:20:43.565
<v Speaker 2>her head hitting the ground. Then Melissa's killer or killers

0:20:44.245 --> 0:20:46.885
<v Speaker 2>probably put her into a vehicle in the next row

0:20:46.885 --> 0:20:50.045
<v Speaker 2>of cars. Someone drove her to that area where her

0:20:50.085 --> 0:20:54.485
<v Speaker 2>body was found. Investigators believe that that remote location is

0:20:54.525 --> 0:20:58.525
<v Speaker 2>where Melissa Wit died. It's located down a single lane

0:20:58.605 --> 0:21:03.085
<v Speaker 2>dirt road that's used for logging. The autopsy revealed that

0:21:03.165 --> 0:21:08.205
<v Speaker 2>the cause of death was exphyxiation strangulation. When I spoke

0:21:08.285 --> 0:21:11.605
<v Speaker 2>to her, LaDonna talked about how she retraced Melissa's root

0:21:12.485 --> 0:21:14.845
<v Speaker 2>and how horrifying it must have been for her to

0:21:14.885 --> 0:21:17.885
<v Speaker 2>be riding in that car with a head wound bleeding,

0:21:18.645 --> 0:21:21.365
<v Speaker 2>knowing that something horrible was about to happen to her.

0:21:22.125 --> 0:21:22.805
<v Speaker 4>Love for something.

0:21:22.805 --> 0:21:25.405
<v Speaker 1>They take me out to this remote site in the

0:21:25.405 --> 0:21:29.365
<v Speaker 1>Ozark National Chorus, and I had a sense of dread

0:21:29.445 --> 0:21:30.925
<v Speaker 1>the whole way there because.

0:21:30.645 --> 0:21:32.685
<v Speaker 4>It's it's just this, you know, there's a lot of

0:21:32.685 --> 0:21:33.765
<v Speaker 4>beauty to look at, but.

0:21:35.205 --> 0:21:38.005
<v Speaker 1>Knowing how remote it was as we're you know, winding

0:21:38.045 --> 0:21:40.765
<v Speaker 1>around and seeing like there was nowhere for her to go,

0:21:41.485 --> 0:21:42.965
<v Speaker 1>nowhere for her to escape.

0:21:43.005 --> 0:21:44.405
<v Speaker 4>And when we.

0:21:44.605 --> 0:21:46.405
<v Speaker 1>Parked the car and I got out, one of the

0:21:46.405 --> 0:21:48.965
<v Speaker 1>first things that j c Ryder looked at me and

0:21:48.965 --> 0:21:51.645
<v Speaker 1>said was that if you screamed right.

0:21:51.445 --> 0:21:55.445
<v Speaker 4>Now, La Donna hod Bring, nobody would hear you. And

0:21:55.765 --> 0:21:56.965
<v Speaker 4>I remember being.

0:21:58.965 --> 0:22:02.365
<v Speaker 5>Just almost to the point of tears and I'm not

0:22:02.685 --> 0:22:07.325
<v Speaker 5>like a crier, really very easy, but realizing nineteen year

0:22:07.325 --> 0:22:11.085
<v Speaker 5>old girl was out there at night was someone who

0:22:11.245 --> 0:22:13.845
<v Speaker 5>had already attacked her in a parking lot. She had

0:22:13.885 --> 0:22:16.205
<v Speaker 5>to have known what was going to happen next, the

0:22:16.245 --> 0:22:20.965
<v Speaker 5>amount of fear that she had, and that part of

0:22:21.005 --> 0:22:25.285
<v Speaker 5>the case really broke me, especially seeing where he eventually

0:22:25.325 --> 0:22:26.845
<v Speaker 5>left her body, like she.

0:22:26.805 --> 0:22:28.005
<v Speaker 4>Didn't matter to anybody.

0:22:29.405 --> 0:22:32.845
<v Speaker 2>Investigators said they found pieces of leaves in Melissa's lungs

0:22:33.045 --> 0:22:35.325
<v Speaker 2>and grass and other vegetation that was native to the

0:22:35.325 --> 0:22:39.125
<v Speaker 2>Ozark National Forest in her windpipe. This led them to

0:22:39.165 --> 0:22:42.285
<v Speaker 2>believe that after Melissa was kidnapped from the Bowling World

0:22:42.325 --> 0:22:45.365
<v Speaker 2>parking lot, she was immediately driven to that location in

0:22:45.405 --> 0:22:51.725
<v Speaker 2>the forest, then sexually assaulted and killed there. Because Melissa's

0:22:51.725 --> 0:22:54.325
<v Speaker 2>body was nude, investigators assumed that there had been a

0:22:54.325 --> 0:22:58.925
<v Speaker 2>sexual assault. According to the autopsy report, there was another

0:22:59.085 --> 0:23:04.085
<v Speaker 2>strange twist to the case. Melissa's body had been moved. First,

0:23:04.085 --> 0:23:06.205
<v Speaker 2>it was put behind a large rock that was kind

0:23:06.205 --> 0:23:09.125
<v Speaker 2>of shaped like a tombstone. The body was covered with

0:23:09.165 --> 0:23:12.205
<v Speaker 2>pine leaves and that's where it stayed for several weeks,

0:23:12.925 --> 0:23:15.685
<v Speaker 2>But then just a few days before the body was found,

0:23:16.445 --> 0:23:20.805
<v Speaker 2>someone moved it. Over the years, JC Riders offered up

0:23:20.845 --> 0:23:24.045
<v Speaker 2>a couple of theories about why he believes someone would

0:23:24.085 --> 0:23:28.325
<v Speaker 2>have moved Melissa's body, he said. Either it's because the

0:23:28.405 --> 0:23:30.885
<v Speaker 2>killer wanted credit for the kill, so they wanted the

0:23:30.885 --> 0:23:32.485
<v Speaker 2>body to be found so that it would be written

0:23:32.525 --> 0:23:34.765
<v Speaker 2>about and they would get some kind of celebrity status.

0:23:35.445 --> 0:23:38.805
<v Speaker 2>Or maybe the move was out of sympathy. Maybe it

0:23:38.845 --> 0:23:41.485
<v Speaker 2>was someone who knew Melissa and wanted to make sure

0:23:41.565 --> 0:23:43.605
<v Speaker 2>that she was found so that her friends and family

0:23:43.645 --> 0:23:47.325
<v Speaker 2>would have some kind of closure. There's also a third possibility,

0:23:47.365 --> 0:23:50.405
<v Speaker 2>by the way, that someone who was not Melissa's killer

0:23:50.525 --> 0:23:54.405
<v Speaker 2>or involved in her murder found the body and decided

0:23:54.405 --> 0:23:57.205
<v Speaker 2>to move it, but didn't want to admit that because

0:23:57.205 --> 0:24:00.845
<v Speaker 2>maybe they lived nearby or had history law enforcement, and

0:24:01.325 --> 0:24:03.405
<v Speaker 2>we're just scared to talk to police for some reason.

0:24:03.565 --> 0:24:06.125
<v Speaker 2>This theory was bolstered a little bit when police got

0:24:06.165 --> 0:24:09.205
<v Speaker 2>a mysterious phone call the day before the body was found.

0:24:10.445 --> 0:24:13.885
<v Speaker 2>In that call, it sounded like there were two people talking.

0:24:14.485 --> 0:24:16.925
<v Speaker 2>You could hear an older woman. Police later said. It

0:24:16.965 --> 0:24:19.845
<v Speaker 2>sounded like a grandmother and a grandson, and you can

0:24:19.885 --> 0:24:22.245
<v Speaker 2>hear the woman saying, tell them what you found, Tell

0:24:22.285 --> 0:24:26.805
<v Speaker 2>them what you found. Then the caller hangs up. Police

0:24:26.845 --> 0:24:30.765
<v Speaker 2>cannot definitively say that that caller was connected to Melissa

0:24:30.805 --> 0:24:33.965
<v Speaker 2>Whit but the timing seems like a pretty big coincidence.

0:24:34.845 --> 0:24:37.925
<v Speaker 2>Police never found that caller, and back then they had

0:24:37.925 --> 0:24:41.125
<v Speaker 2>no way to trace them. Le Donna has said, by

0:24:41.125 --> 0:24:43.445
<v Speaker 2>the way, that she does not agree with law enforcements

0:24:43.525 --> 0:24:47.325
<v Speaker 2>theory because the night Melissa was killed was a really

0:24:47.365 --> 0:24:51.645
<v Speaker 2>cold night. She thinks it's possible Melissa was sexually assaulted

0:24:51.645 --> 0:24:55.325
<v Speaker 2>somewhere else, maybe even kept somewhere for days or weeks,

0:24:56.005 --> 0:24:58.245
<v Speaker 2>and then was murdered near where the body was dumped.

0:24:59.245 --> 0:25:01.045
<v Speaker 2>When I look at these cases, I always go back

0:25:01.085 --> 0:25:03.565
<v Speaker 2>to the very beginning. I asked myself if it was

0:25:03.645 --> 0:25:07.525
<v Speaker 2>possible that Bowling World was not the primary crime scene.

0:25:07.765 --> 0:25:10.405
<v Speaker 2>Maybe Melissa had left that parking lot with someone and

0:25:10.485 --> 0:25:12.765
<v Speaker 2>later they took the car back and parked it there.

0:25:12.805 --> 0:25:15.605
<v Speaker 2>After all, it wasn't found for three days. I have

0:25:15.805 --> 0:25:19.365
<v Speaker 2>seen this in other cases. Anyone who has basic knowledge

0:25:19.365 --> 0:25:22.325
<v Speaker 2>of crime scenes. No, if you can waste police time

0:25:22.685 --> 0:25:25.245
<v Speaker 2>by staging a false crime scene, you can throw them

0:25:25.285 --> 0:25:29.845
<v Speaker 2>off the trail for quite a while. But Melissa's keys

0:25:29.965 --> 0:25:31.845
<v Speaker 2>and the spots of blood made me think this is

0:25:31.925 --> 0:25:35.205
<v Speaker 2>much less likely because those keys were turned in at

0:25:35.205 --> 0:25:38.405
<v Speaker 2>around seven forty five pm. But the fact that the

0:25:38.445 --> 0:25:41.765
<v Speaker 2>body was moved, and some other little odd tidbits about

0:25:41.765 --> 0:25:45.445
<v Speaker 2>this case made me think it's definitely possible that the

0:25:45.485 --> 0:25:50.125
<v Speaker 2>crime scene was stage. Maybe sexual assault wasn't the motive.

0:25:50.605 --> 0:25:53.525
<v Speaker 2>Maybe someone was angry with Melissa and hit her and

0:25:53.565 --> 0:25:55.285
<v Speaker 2>then took her out to the dumb site and took

0:25:55.285 --> 0:25:58.645
<v Speaker 2>her clothes off, even to conceal evidence, or also maybe

0:25:58.685 --> 0:26:01.165
<v Speaker 2>to make it look like a random serial killer did it.

0:26:02.325 --> 0:26:04.845
<v Speaker 2>So let's go back to what could have happened that

0:26:04.965 --> 0:26:08.685
<v Speaker 2>night in the parking lot at Bowling World. Melissa got

0:26:08.685 --> 0:26:11.365
<v Speaker 2>to Bowling World. The parking lot was pretty full because

0:26:11.365 --> 0:26:15.325
<v Speaker 2>of the Ladies' leak. Almost everyone was inside. Melissa got

0:26:15.325 --> 0:26:18.605
<v Speaker 2>out of her car, and whatever happened had to happen

0:26:18.645 --> 0:26:21.005
<v Speaker 2>really quickly because she had her keys in her hand.

0:26:22.125 --> 0:26:25.045
<v Speaker 2>Presumably she didn't take the time to lock her car

0:26:25.165 --> 0:26:27.685
<v Speaker 2>and put them into her purse because her purse was missing,

0:26:27.725 --> 0:26:31.365
<v Speaker 2>but the keys were there. Melissa started arguing with someone.

0:26:31.845 --> 0:26:35.525
<v Speaker 2>The argument got heated. Maybe she got scared and went

0:26:35.565 --> 0:26:39.045
<v Speaker 2>to get back inside her car. But before she had

0:26:39.085 --> 0:26:40.645
<v Speaker 2>time to put the keys in the door and to

0:26:40.645 --> 0:26:43.405
<v Speaker 2>get back in her car to safety, the killer hit

0:26:43.485 --> 0:26:46.445
<v Speaker 2>her over the head with a blunt forsce object. Grabbed

0:26:46.445 --> 0:26:49.485
<v Speaker 2>her and threw her into their vehicle. This would have

0:26:49.565 --> 0:26:52.645
<v Speaker 2>taken just a few seconds, just long enough for the

0:26:52.725 --> 0:26:54.645
<v Speaker 2>keys to slip out of her hands, and that would

0:26:54.685 --> 0:26:58.245
<v Speaker 2>also explain another piece of evidence they found there, Melissa's

0:26:58.245 --> 0:27:02.245
<v Speaker 2>crushed hair clip. The killer or killers grabbed Melissa's bag

0:27:02.325 --> 0:27:05.285
<v Speaker 2>and threw it in the vehicle with them, but probably

0:27:05.325 --> 0:27:10.405
<v Speaker 2>in their panic, they didn't notice those keys. Almost every

0:27:10.445 --> 0:27:13.685
<v Speaker 2>single theory that has been mentioned in connection with this case,

0:27:13.845 --> 0:27:15.645
<v Speaker 2>all of them have one thing in common. This was

0:27:15.725 --> 0:27:19.445
<v Speaker 2>not a planned attack. This was something probably an argument

0:27:19.485 --> 0:27:22.445
<v Speaker 2>that got out of control and escalated, which brings us

0:27:22.485 --> 0:27:25.365
<v Speaker 2>back to who would have known that Melissa was going

0:27:25.405 --> 0:27:28.525
<v Speaker 2>to be there that night. Over the years, police have

0:27:28.605 --> 0:27:31.645
<v Speaker 2>gotten thousands of tips. There have been a few people

0:27:31.685 --> 0:27:33.805
<v Speaker 2>of interests who've come up over and over, and we're

0:27:33.805 --> 0:27:37.445
<v Speaker 2>going to go over those now. One person of interest

0:27:37.605 --> 0:27:40.725
<v Speaker 2>who was mentioned pretty early on was a guy named

0:27:40.845 --> 0:27:44.365
<v Speaker 2>Larry Sweeringin He was convicted of the nineteen ninety nine

0:27:44.445 --> 0:27:47.125
<v Speaker 2>murder of a young woman named Melissa Trotter in Texas.

0:27:47.965 --> 0:27:50.005
<v Speaker 2>Le Donna wrote in her book there were actually a

0:27:50.045 --> 0:27:53.365
<v Speaker 2>lot of similarities, at least on the surface, between Melissa

0:27:53.365 --> 0:27:56.765
<v Speaker 2>Trotter's case and Melissa WIT's case. Other than the obvious,

0:27:56.805 --> 0:27:59.485
<v Speaker 2>which is they had the same first name. Both Melissa

0:27:59.485 --> 0:28:02.565
<v Speaker 2>Trotter and Melissa Witt were nineteen years old. Both of

0:28:02.605 --> 0:28:05.885
<v Speaker 2>them were strangled. Both were found several weeks after they

0:28:05.965 --> 0:28:10.485
<v Speaker 2>disappeared in national forest areas. Melissa Trotter's body was found

0:28:10.525 --> 0:28:14.005
<v Speaker 2>on January twenty second, nineteen ninety nine, in sam Houston

0:28:14.085 --> 0:28:17.925
<v Speaker 2>National Forest in Texas. Melissa Trotter had a knife wound

0:28:18.005 --> 0:28:20.605
<v Speaker 2>on her neck, her throat had been cut, and the

0:28:20.645 --> 0:28:23.725
<v Speaker 2>pockets of her shorts were torn, exposing her red underwear.

0:28:24.645 --> 0:28:26.725
<v Speaker 2>She had been strangled with a pair of panny hose.

0:28:27.885 --> 0:28:31.005
<v Speaker 2>Larry Swaringen was twenty seven years old, he was married,

0:28:31.045 --> 0:28:34.005
<v Speaker 2>and he had a long criminal history with allegations of

0:28:34.045 --> 0:28:38.485
<v Speaker 2>sexual assault against multiple women. It turned out that there

0:28:38.525 --> 0:28:41.325
<v Speaker 2>were a lot of issues with the case against Larry Swaringen.

0:28:42.565 --> 0:28:46.045
<v Speaker 2>There were serious problems with the physical evidence, though actually

0:28:46.125 --> 0:28:49.765
<v Speaker 2>the biggest issue in the case against Larry Swaringen was

0:28:49.805 --> 0:28:53.685
<v Speaker 2>the timing. The Houston medical examiner who conducted the autopsy

0:28:54.245 --> 0:28:58.525
<v Speaker 2>testified during Larry Swaringen's trial that Melissa Trotter had been

0:28:58.565 --> 0:29:01.405
<v Speaker 2>dead the entire time that she was missing, so for

0:29:01.445 --> 0:29:05.045
<v Speaker 2>almost three weeks, but in two thousand and seven, the

0:29:05.085 --> 0:29:09.525
<v Speaker 2>medical examiner recanted her testimony. Now she said that Melissa

0:29:09.525 --> 0:29:12.125
<v Speaker 2>Trotter had been dead for no longer than two weeks

0:29:12.125 --> 0:29:15.125
<v Speaker 2>when her body was found. The problem with that is

0:29:15.165 --> 0:29:18.085
<v Speaker 2>that three days after Melissa went missing, the police picked

0:29:18.165 --> 0:29:20.005
<v Speaker 2>him up on an outstanding warrant, and he was in

0:29:20.085 --> 0:29:23.525
<v Speaker 2>jail when her body was found. I absolutely believe that

0:29:23.685 --> 0:29:27.365
<v Speaker 2>if Larry Swaringen were charged without murder today, he would

0:29:27.365 --> 0:29:30.485
<v Speaker 2>not be convicted. Not only do I not believe he's

0:29:30.525 --> 0:29:33.645
<v Speaker 2>a viable suspect in Melissa WIT's case. I think it's

0:29:33.765 --> 0:29:38.245
<v Speaker 2>highly unlikely that he killed Melissa Trotter. But even with

0:29:38.325 --> 0:29:41.925
<v Speaker 2>all the questionable evidence, Larry's Swaringen was convicted and he

0:29:41.965 --> 0:29:45.365
<v Speaker 2>was sentenced to death. After the Innocent Project took up

0:29:45.365 --> 0:29:49.365
<v Speaker 2>the case, his execution was stayed five times, but finally

0:29:49.725 --> 0:29:53.245
<v Speaker 2>Larry Sweringen was executed by lethal injection in two thousand.

0:29:54.405 --> 0:29:58.725
<v Speaker 2>His last words and a final statement were quote today,

0:29:58.885 --> 0:30:04.205
<v Speaker 2>the State of Texas murdered an innocent man. While police

0:30:04.205 --> 0:30:08.125
<v Speaker 2>were investigating Melissa wis It's case, another possible person of

0:30:08.165 --> 0:30:12.525
<v Speaker 2>interest came up. His name is Travis Dale Crouch. He

0:30:12.605 --> 0:30:16.565
<v Speaker 2>was also known by his nicknames Tramp or Skull. Travis

0:30:16.605 --> 0:30:19.565
<v Speaker 2>is from ozark and did time for the rape of

0:30:19.605 --> 0:30:22.325
<v Speaker 2>a twenty year old woman in Colorado in nineteen ninety seven.

0:30:23.245 --> 0:30:26.005
<v Speaker 2>Travis was panhandling in a mall parking lot. He started

0:30:26.085 --> 0:30:29.125
<v Speaker 2>chatting with his victim, then he attacked her in her

0:30:29.165 --> 0:30:32.245
<v Speaker 2>own car. He forced her to drive to this remote

0:30:32.285 --> 0:30:35.765
<v Speaker 2>location on a mountaintop, and over a period of hours,

0:30:35.765 --> 0:30:39.645
<v Speaker 2>he subjected her to a brutal sexual assault. Somehow, his

0:30:39.765 --> 0:30:43.085
<v Speaker 2>victim escaped. She was dazed and she ran out of

0:30:43.125 --> 0:30:48.645
<v Speaker 2>there completely naked and got help. Law enforcements saw similarities

0:30:48.685 --> 0:30:53.045
<v Speaker 2>between this case and Melissa Whits case, and they figured

0:30:53.045 --> 0:30:58.485
<v Speaker 2>out that around the time Melissa disappeared, Travis was in Arkansas. Actually,

0:30:58.565 --> 0:31:00.845
<v Speaker 2>Travis was a carpenter at a church camp a few

0:31:00.845 --> 0:31:03.165
<v Speaker 2>miles from the remote area where Melissa's body was found.

0:31:03.925 --> 0:31:06.885
<v Speaker 2>He was seen driving as Chevrolet Caprice near Bowling World

0:31:07.125 --> 0:31:11.645
<v Speaker 2>around the time when Melissa disappeared. Travis was also a

0:31:11.685 --> 0:31:14.005
<v Speaker 2>deer hunter, so he would have known the forest well.

0:31:14.885 --> 0:31:18.005
<v Speaker 2>Police safe fibers in his car were tested at one point,

0:31:18.685 --> 0:31:21.085
<v Speaker 2>but then nothing more was ever reported about the results

0:31:21.125 --> 0:31:24.725
<v Speaker 2>of those tests. Travis was sentenced to sixty four years

0:31:24.725 --> 0:31:26.565
<v Speaker 2>in prison for the rape of the twenty year old

0:31:26.645 --> 0:31:30.605
<v Speaker 2>victim in Colorado. He becomes eligible for parole next year,

0:31:30.925 --> 0:31:35.925
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty four. According to multiple reports, Travis has also

0:31:36.085 --> 0:31:40.445
<v Speaker 2>always denied any involvement in Melissa Whits murder, which in

0:31:40.445 --> 0:31:43.605
<v Speaker 2>a way brings us back to where we started. We

0:31:43.645 --> 0:31:48.445
<v Speaker 2>can eliminate some possibilities. None of the rumors about drugs

0:31:48.565 --> 0:31:52.565
<v Speaker 2>or sex trafficking rings made sense. Melissa never did drugs.

0:31:52.845 --> 0:31:56.805
<v Speaker 2>No drugs were found in her system. Police later publicly

0:31:56.885 --> 0:32:00.325
<v Speaker 2>said that the whole black male suspect and Fort Chaffee

0:32:00.365 --> 0:32:03.365
<v Speaker 2>connection were just red herrings and had been a complete

0:32:03.445 --> 0:32:09.005
<v Speaker 2>waste of time. Also, sex traffickers don't drive into full

0:32:09.085 --> 0:32:13.325
<v Speaker 2>parking lots and kidnap random women. It's sad to say this,

0:32:13.565 --> 0:32:17.765
<v Speaker 2>but sex traffickers do not have a problem finding young victims.

0:32:18.605 --> 0:32:22.005
<v Speaker 2>They groom at risk young teens and runaways, but they

0:32:22.005 --> 0:32:26.365
<v Speaker 2>don't randomly kidnap people from parking lots. Over the years,

0:32:26.405 --> 0:32:30.525
<v Speaker 2>a number of armchair detectives on podcasts have mentioned possible suspects.

0:32:31.325 --> 0:32:33.925
<v Speaker 2>The podcast True Crime Garage talked to Lodonna a few

0:32:33.965 --> 0:32:37.165
<v Speaker 2>years back about a guy named Gary Hilton, aka the

0:32:37.245 --> 0:32:41.565
<v Speaker 2>National Forest serial Killer. But in my opinion, this doesn't

0:32:41.605 --> 0:32:44.045
<v Speaker 2>make a ton of sense. On the surface. There are

0:32:44.085 --> 0:32:47.565
<v Speaker 2>a few similarities, but Gary Hilton's mo was abducting women

0:32:47.605 --> 0:32:50.925
<v Speaker 2>from remote areas. For example, one victim's car was found

0:32:50.925 --> 0:32:54.245
<v Speaker 2>abandoned in a field, another was on a hike. Over

0:32:54.285 --> 0:32:58.445
<v Speaker 2>the years, LaDonna has devoted countless hours to researching what

0:32:58.485 --> 0:33:01.685
<v Speaker 2>could have happened to Melissa Whitt. A few years back,

0:33:02.205 --> 0:33:04.925
<v Speaker 2>she was contacted by women who said years ago, when

0:33:04.925 --> 0:33:08.365
<v Speaker 2>the woman was twenty three and living in the Pacific Northwest,

0:33:08.885 --> 0:33:11.725
<v Speaker 2>this woman had been in a fetish video and this

0:33:11.885 --> 0:33:14.365
<v Speaker 2>was a very creepy story. The woman said that this

0:33:14.525 --> 0:33:18.725
<v Speaker 2>creepy director wanted a video where the young woman was

0:33:18.765 --> 0:33:21.885
<v Speaker 2>wearing a Mickey mousewatch. He wanted her to pretend that

0:33:21.965 --> 0:33:24.885
<v Speaker 2>she was dead and in a morgue. As a result

0:33:24.885 --> 0:33:27.965
<v Speaker 2>of this, Ledonna did a deep dive into some very

0:33:28.005 --> 0:33:31.485
<v Speaker 2>disturbing internet forums. I've been on a lot of those

0:33:31.485 --> 0:33:34.965
<v Speaker 2>same forums and there are some definite violent creeps in there,

0:33:35.645 --> 0:33:38.405
<v Speaker 2>But I don't think that this direction will ultimately lead

0:33:38.445 --> 0:33:41.325
<v Speaker 2>to Melissa's killer. There are a lot of people who

0:33:41.405 --> 0:33:45.805
<v Speaker 2>enjoyed dark fetishes who never cross the line. I also

0:33:45.925 --> 0:33:48.845
<v Speaker 2>don't think that Melissa Wits killer was a random stranger.

0:33:49.525 --> 0:33:51.605
<v Speaker 2>First of all, I find it hard to believe that

0:33:51.685 --> 0:33:55.005
<v Speaker 2>a random stranger would trawl through a packed parking lot

0:33:55.045 --> 0:33:58.205
<v Speaker 2>to find a victim. This wasn't two am in a

0:33:58.365 --> 0:34:01.125
<v Speaker 2>car garage. This was prime dinner time in the middle

0:34:01.165 --> 0:34:04.805
<v Speaker 2>of the Ladies bowling League. Over the years, some people

0:34:04.845 --> 0:34:08.285
<v Speaker 2>have suggested the Mickey Mouse watch might be some kind

0:34:08.285 --> 0:34:12.005
<v Speaker 2>of important connection, like maybe Melissa Trotter and Melissa Witt

0:34:12.045 --> 0:34:15.885
<v Speaker 2>were both targeted because they wore Mickey Mouse watches. Ay

0:34:15.965 --> 0:34:18.005
<v Speaker 2>magazine did a story about the case. They called it

0:34:18.045 --> 0:34:21.525
<v Speaker 2>the Mickey Mouse Killer. I get why people might focus

0:34:21.525 --> 0:34:24.245
<v Speaker 2>on the watch, because both Melissa Trotter and Melissa Wit

0:34:25.325 --> 0:34:27.445
<v Speaker 2>wore that style of watch and they were missing when

0:34:27.485 --> 0:34:30.445
<v Speaker 2>the bodies were found. But in my opinion, this is

0:34:30.485 --> 0:34:33.845
<v Speaker 2>also just a coincidence because that style of watch was

0:34:33.925 --> 0:34:36.405
<v Speaker 2>everywhere in the eighties and nineties, lots of young women

0:34:36.445 --> 0:34:40.005
<v Speaker 2>wore them. I just don't believe that there was a

0:34:40.045 --> 0:34:44.125
<v Speaker 2>serial killer targeting young women because they wore Mickey Mouse watches. Now,

0:34:44.165 --> 0:34:46.965
<v Speaker 2>I could, of course be totally wrong, and if other

0:34:47.005 --> 0:34:50.045
<v Speaker 2>evidence points in that direction, I will change my mind,

0:34:50.245 --> 0:34:53.445
<v Speaker 2>But I think that the killer taking Melissa WIT's clothes

0:34:54.005 --> 0:34:56.725
<v Speaker 2>was more of an attempt to not leave blood or

0:34:56.765 --> 0:35:00.925
<v Speaker 2>saliva or anything else that could connect them to Melissa. J.

0:35:01.085 --> 0:35:04.765
<v Speaker 2>C Ryder seems to agree. Melissa's killer knew her, they

0:35:04.845 --> 0:35:06.805
<v Speaker 2>knew her re and they were waiting for her in

0:35:06.845 --> 0:35:10.125
<v Speaker 2>the parking lot that night. But when I talked to Ldonna,

0:35:10.645 --> 0:35:13.125
<v Speaker 2>she was focused on a suspect much closer to home,

0:35:14.165 --> 0:35:18.365
<v Speaker 2>someone she says, who knew Melissa well, someone who contacted

0:35:18.365 --> 0:35:19.685
<v Speaker 2>her early in the investigation.

0:35:20.805 --> 0:35:24.405
<v Speaker 1>So this this particular guy, I guess he was the

0:35:24.405 --> 0:35:26.885
<v Speaker 1>one that's called me kind of creepy, called me for many,

0:35:26.885 --> 0:35:29.645
<v Speaker 1>many years, and it started out with him calling me

0:35:30.085 --> 0:35:33.565
<v Speaker 1>weeping over Melissa, you know, wanting me to go with

0:35:33.645 --> 0:35:34.685
<v Speaker 1>him to the.

0:35:34.565 --> 0:35:36.165
<v Speaker 4>Graveside, those kind of things.

0:35:36.205 --> 0:35:38.445
<v Speaker 1>But it was definitely, yes, he's someone that knew Melissa,

0:35:39.005 --> 0:35:40.925
<v Speaker 1>and his name is definitely in that diary.

0:35:41.405 --> 0:35:43.845
<v Speaker 4>Because of that, and because he had been.

0:35:43.765 --> 0:35:45.765
<v Speaker 1>Reaching out to me, and there was no possible way

0:35:45.765 --> 0:35:48.045
<v Speaker 1>for me to know that name. You know, it wasn't

0:35:48.085 --> 0:35:49.925
<v Speaker 1>something that I could have gone to law enforcement and

0:35:50.005 --> 0:35:50.685
<v Speaker 1>just make up.

0:35:51.525 --> 0:35:53.645
<v Speaker 4>This was, you know, information that really just kind of

0:35:53.645 --> 0:35:56.645
<v Speaker 4>fell into my lap. They realized how critical.

0:35:56.205 --> 0:35:59.245
<v Speaker 1>This piece could be because I could literally gather some

0:35:59.285 --> 0:36:01.645
<v Speaker 1>information for them and give it to them as intel

0:36:02.085 --> 0:36:04.765
<v Speaker 1>that they were never going to have with him because

0:36:04.765 --> 0:36:05.485
<v Speaker 1>he had lawyers.

0:36:06.325 --> 0:36:09.045
<v Speaker 4>Even though I wasn't acting as an agent.

0:36:08.765 --> 0:36:11.485
<v Speaker 1>Of the police or even as a private investigator at

0:36:11.485 --> 0:36:15.245
<v Speaker 1>that point, as a filmmaker and doing an investigative journalism

0:36:15.285 --> 0:36:16.605
<v Speaker 1>piece part of it, I was.

0:36:16.605 --> 0:36:19.005
<v Speaker 4>Still able to go ahead and talk with him. And

0:36:20.005 --> 0:36:22.525
<v Speaker 4>reading that case file helped me because I at least knew.

0:36:22.405 --> 0:36:24.285
<v Speaker 1>Some of the statements he made, and then I would

0:36:24.365 --> 0:36:27.445
<v Speaker 1>know immediately if he was being honest with me, and

0:36:27.485 --> 0:36:30.125
<v Speaker 1>for the most part, he always lied, which was really

0:36:30.165 --> 0:36:32.685
<v Speaker 1>really interesting and intriguing to the case.

0:36:33.565 --> 0:36:37.445
<v Speaker 2>I believe something scared Melissa. She got into an argument

0:36:37.445 --> 0:36:40.245
<v Speaker 2>with her abductor, either because she said no to some

0:36:40.325 --> 0:36:44.285
<v Speaker 2>kind of sexual advance, or maybe because they were having

0:36:44.325 --> 0:36:46.645
<v Speaker 2>some kind of a fight, maybe even a lover's quarrel.

0:36:47.285 --> 0:36:51.445
<v Speaker 2>Maybe Melissa Witt was seeing someone secretly. It could be

0:36:51.525 --> 0:36:55.485
<v Speaker 2>someone who might have had a girlfriend or even a wife. Then,

0:36:55.605 --> 0:36:58.805
<v Speaker 2>when Melissa Witt raised her voice and they started getting

0:36:58.845 --> 0:37:00.765
<v Speaker 2>into a more heated argument, the one the ten year

0:37:00.805 --> 0:37:04.205
<v Speaker 2>old boy witnessed her killer wanted her to be quiet,

0:37:04.485 --> 0:37:07.405
<v Speaker 2>so they hit her, then panicked and threw her into

0:37:07.445 --> 0:37:11.285
<v Speaker 2>their vehicle. Maybe her killer took her into the Ozark

0:37:11.405 --> 0:37:17.165
<v Speaker 2>National Forest, sexually assaulted her and strangled her. Or maybe

0:37:17.165 --> 0:37:20.405
<v Speaker 2>they hit her, panicked, threw her into the car, then

0:37:20.485 --> 0:37:23.405
<v Speaker 2>went to dump her in the forest. Maybe they thought

0:37:23.485 --> 0:37:25.685
<v Speaker 2>she was dead, but when they realized she was still alive,

0:37:26.325 --> 0:37:31.205
<v Speaker 2>they knew they had to finish the job. In either scenario,

0:37:31.765 --> 0:37:34.685
<v Speaker 2>I think Melissa Whitten knew her killer, that it was

0:37:34.725 --> 0:37:37.725
<v Speaker 2>someone local or maybe more than one person.

0:37:39.005 --> 0:37:40.045
<v Speaker 4>What's the missing piece?

0:37:40.085 --> 0:37:41.765
<v Speaker 2>What can people do to help at this point?

0:37:42.845 --> 0:37:46.405
<v Speaker 4>I think that there's a couple of things.

0:37:46.405 --> 0:37:49.725
<v Speaker 1>One is that this guy has had lots of problems

0:37:49.725 --> 0:37:51.765
<v Speaker 1>with drugs and alcohol over the years, and I do

0:37:51.885 --> 0:37:52.365
<v Speaker 1>believe that.

0:37:52.325 --> 0:37:54.245
<v Speaker 4>He's talked to different people in his life, and.

0:37:54.205 --> 0:37:56.965
<v Speaker 1>I think that those people are probably very fearful of

0:37:57.045 --> 0:37:57.845
<v Speaker 1>coming forward.

0:37:58.565 --> 0:38:00.925
<v Speaker 4>And you know, we need those people to come forward

0:38:01.005 --> 0:38:03.325
<v Speaker 4>because I know they exist. We also need any of

0:38:03.365 --> 0:38:06.925
<v Speaker 4>the women that were connected to him to come forward.

0:38:07.445 --> 0:38:12.125
<v Speaker 1>I do believe that this alibi can be negated he has.

0:38:12.285 --> 0:38:14.245
<v Speaker 1>I believe that there's a lot more there and a

0:38:14.245 --> 0:38:18.085
<v Speaker 1>lot more violence that got swept under the rug. That

0:38:18.125 --> 0:38:20.965
<v Speaker 1>he was never prosecuted for and we need those people.

0:38:20.645 --> 0:38:21.365
<v Speaker 4>To come forward.

0:38:23.645 --> 0:38:27.245
<v Speaker 2>Marianne Whip passed away in twenty eleven without ever knowing

0:38:27.325 --> 0:38:30.325
<v Speaker 2>who killed her daughter. She was seventy five years old,

0:38:30.525 --> 0:38:33.565
<v Speaker 2>and she was buried right next to Melissa. J c

0:38:33.765 --> 0:38:37.085
<v Speaker 2>Ryder has said the case has followed him over the years.

0:38:37.685 --> 0:38:40.685
<v Speaker 2>He said he's never forgotten about it. That's why, even

0:38:40.725 --> 0:38:44.685
<v Speaker 2>after retirement, he continues to work for justice and closure

0:38:44.725 --> 0:38:48.725
<v Speaker 2>for Melissa and her family. Over the years, Leadona Humphrey

0:38:48.805 --> 0:38:52.005
<v Speaker 2>has teamed up with J. C Ryder. She's continued to

0:38:52.005 --> 0:38:55.005
<v Speaker 2>push forward on this case. She's seen the case file,

0:38:55.165 --> 0:38:59.005
<v Speaker 2>and she's seen Melissa's diary. In her book, she writes that,

0:38:59.125 --> 0:39:01.805
<v Speaker 2>in her opinion, there are some other people who need

0:39:01.845 --> 0:39:02.565
<v Speaker 2>to be investigated.

0:39:02.605 --> 0:39:04.765
<v Speaker 4>Further, he's given an alibi.

0:39:05.085 --> 0:39:08.445
<v Speaker 1>He has had not had anybody come forward to help

0:39:08.525 --> 0:39:12.165
<v Speaker 1>to negate that alibi, and that's the.

0:39:12.165 --> 0:39:13.965
<v Speaker 4>Piece that we really need to crash.

0:39:14.245 --> 0:39:17.445
<v Speaker 1>And I think a lot of people that are around

0:39:17.525 --> 0:39:19.365
<v Speaker 1>this particular individual are.

0:39:19.325 --> 0:39:20.125
<v Speaker 4>Very afraid of him.

0:39:20.165 --> 0:39:24.965
<v Speaker 1>He's a very volatile, very violent person, and so it

0:39:25.085 --> 0:39:28.685
<v Speaker 1>stands to reason that you know, people are afraid or

0:39:28.765 --> 0:39:32.485
<v Speaker 1>that now they're afraid that they've kept information to themselves

0:39:32.525 --> 0:39:34.805
<v Speaker 1>for so long that they're afraid to come forward.

0:39:34.885 --> 0:39:38.845
<v Speaker 4>Now they're not hurting anybody except Melissa. In my opinion,

0:39:39.125 --> 0:39:41.525
<v Speaker 4>the quest to get justice for Melissa went. I mean,

0:39:41.605 --> 0:39:43.925
<v Speaker 4>they would really just be a hero. It would help

0:39:44.005 --> 0:39:47.685
<v Speaker 4>take somebody off the street too. I believe very well

0:39:47.725 --> 0:39:48.525
<v Speaker 4>may do it again.

0:39:48.965 --> 0:39:53.885
<v Speaker 1>He is a very dangerous, violent man, and it all

0:39:53.925 --> 0:39:54.725
<v Speaker 1>comes down to that.

0:40:03.125 --> 0:40:07.045
<v Speaker 2>Ledonna co founded a nonprofit organist called All the Lost Girls.

0:40:07.725 --> 0:40:11.485
<v Speaker 2>It's dedicated to finding justice for female strangulation cold cases

0:40:11.525 --> 0:40:15.325
<v Speaker 2>in the United States, and police say they are still

0:40:15.365 --> 0:40:19.285
<v Speaker 2>working on Melissa Wits case. Captain Daniel Grubbs of the

0:40:19.325 --> 0:40:23.205
<v Speaker 2>Fort Smith Police Department talked to News five and in

0:40:23.245 --> 0:40:26.845
<v Speaker 2>that interview, Captain Grubbs said that they do have items

0:40:26.845 --> 0:40:30.445
<v Speaker 2>that they can test for DNA. I would love to

0:40:30.445 --> 0:40:33.565
<v Speaker 2>get more details about exactly what is in the case file.

0:40:34.445 --> 0:40:38.165
<v Speaker 2>I wonder if they could test familial DNA, or maybe

0:40:38.485 --> 0:40:40.885
<v Speaker 2>someone will be scrounging through in a state sale or

0:40:40.885 --> 0:40:44.405
<v Speaker 2>in a relative's old basement, maybe they'll find that Mickey

0:40:44.405 --> 0:40:47.445
<v Speaker 2>Mouse watch with a serial number that could match it

0:40:47.485 --> 0:40:50.725
<v Speaker 2>to Melissa Wit. In the past, when I've seen news

0:40:50.725 --> 0:40:54.645
<v Speaker 2>reports of updates in Melissa Wits case. I've seen a

0:40:54.725 --> 0:40:58.525
<v Speaker 2>lot of descriptions of the police looking at known criminals

0:40:58.525 --> 0:41:03.365
<v Speaker 2>in the area, including local sex offenders. But after everything

0:41:03.565 --> 0:41:06.205
<v Speaker 2>that I've looked through on this case, I'm convinced that

0:41:06.245 --> 0:41:09.685
<v Speaker 2>Melissa Witt knew her killer and that the answers to

0:41:09.725 --> 0:41:13.325
<v Speaker 2>who killed Melissa Witt will only be found by taking

0:41:13.405 --> 0:41:17.765
<v Speaker 2>a closer look into her life. Do you think that

0:41:17.845 --> 0:41:20.005
<v Speaker 2>this person is still in the area.

0:41:22.045 --> 0:41:25.085
<v Speaker 4>It's still an archisias, So if.

0:41:25.005 --> 0:41:28.245
<v Speaker 2>You were friends with Melissa Witt, please get in touch.

0:41:29.245 --> 0:41:38.725
<v Speaker 2>I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen

0:41:38.765 --> 0:41:41.885
<v Speaker 2>Gone is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts.

0:41:42.285 --> 0:41:45.525
<v Speaker 2>It's written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced

0:41:45.525 --> 0:41:49.805
<v Speaker 2>by Gabby Watts. Music is by Ben so Lee. Executive

0:41:49.805 --> 0:41:54.485
<v Speaker 2>producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Elsie Crowley. If

0:41:54.525 --> 0:41:56.365
<v Speaker 2>you have a case you'd like me and my team

0:41:56.405 --> 0:41:59.085
<v Speaker 2>to look into, you can reach out to us at

0:41:59.125 --> 0:42:03.045
<v Speaker 2>six seven eight seven four four six one four five.

0:42:03.725 --> 0:42:07.645
<v Speaker 2>That's six seven eight four four six one four five.

0:42:14.565 --> 0:42:15.525
<v Speaker 4>School of Humans

0:42:17.205 --> 0:42:17.245
<v Speaker 1>M