1 00:00:08,245 --> 00:00:09,765 Speaker 1: School of Humans. 2 00:00:11,205 --> 00:00:14,325 Speaker 2: Over the past five years making my true crime podcast, 3 00:00:14,365 --> 00:00:17,645 Speaker 2: Helen Gone, I've learned that there is no such thing 4 00:00:17,805 --> 00:00:21,165 Speaker 2: as a small town where murder never happens. I have 5 00:00:21,325 --> 00:00:24,605 Speaker 2: received hundreds of messages from people all around the country 6 00:00:24,965 --> 00:00:27,645 Speaker 2: asking for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them, 7 00:00:27,965 --> 00:00:32,165 Speaker 2: their families, and their communities. And now they have a 8 00:00:32,165 --> 00:00:36,285 Speaker 2: new way to reach out. I'm Catherine Townsend. This is 9 00:00:36,365 --> 00:00:39,805 Speaker 2: Hell and Gone Murder Line. If you have a case 10 00:00:39,845 --> 00:00:42,245 Speaker 2: you'd like me and my team to look into, you 11 00:00:42,285 --> 00:00:45,205 Speaker 2: can reach out to us at six seven eight seven 12 00:00:45,285 --> 00:00:49,405 Speaker 2: four four six one four five. That's six seven eight 13 00:00:49,725 --> 00:00:56,885 Speaker 2: seven four four six one four five. Thursday, December first, 14 00:00:57,045 --> 00:01:00,005 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four started out as just a normal day 15 00:01:00,125 --> 00:01:04,565 Speaker 2: for Melissa missy Wit. Melissa was a nineteen year old 16 00:01:04,565 --> 00:01:06,765 Speaker 2: college student who's still lived at home with her mom, 17 00:01:06,845 --> 00:01:09,565 Speaker 2: mary Anne, with on a quiet street in a quiet 18 00:01:09,645 --> 00:01:13,925 Speaker 2: neighborhood in Fort Smith, Arkansas. Melissa was Marianne's only daughter, 19 00:01:14,045 --> 00:01:18,765 Speaker 2: and Melissa was her whole world. In interviews later, Marianne 20 00:01:18,765 --> 00:01:21,125 Speaker 2: talked about how she'd been almost forty years old when 21 00:01:21,125 --> 00:01:24,205 Speaker 2: Melissa was born. Melissa's dad, Johnny, was fifty four at 22 00:01:24,205 --> 00:01:27,925 Speaker 2: the time. Today that's more common, especially in places like 23 00:01:27,965 --> 00:01:29,445 Speaker 2: New York City, where I've spent a lot of my 24 00:01:29,445 --> 00:01:33,005 Speaker 2: adult life, but back then, in small town Arkansas, it 25 00:01:33,125 --> 00:01:37,565 Speaker 2: was definitely not. Because they were so close. Mary Anne 26 00:01:37,645 --> 00:01:41,485 Speaker 2: was always very protective of Melissa. She always thought about safety. 27 00:01:42,525 --> 00:01:45,645 Speaker 2: Fort Smith had around seventy five thousand people living there 28 00:01:45,845 --> 00:01:49,525 Speaker 2: back in the early nineties with a military base. It 29 00:01:49,605 --> 00:01:52,845 Speaker 2: was much larger and more diverse than say, a lot 30 00:01:52,885 --> 00:01:55,565 Speaker 2: of towns in the Ozarks, but it still had that 31 00:01:55,645 --> 00:01:59,085 Speaker 2: small town feel. When Melissa was growing up. It was 32 00:01:59,125 --> 00:02:02,205 Speaker 2: the kind of place where kids rode their bikes around 33 00:02:02,205 --> 00:02:06,165 Speaker 2: town and entertained themselves after school. On that December morning 34 00:02:06,285 --> 00:02:09,325 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety four, Melissa asked mary Anne if she 35 00:02:09,325 --> 00:02:12,645 Speaker 2: could borrow twenty dollars. Mary Anne was trying to teach 36 00:02:12,685 --> 00:02:16,885 Speaker 2: Melissa about smarter budgeting, so she said no. Melissa and 37 00:02:16,925 --> 00:02:19,325 Speaker 2: mary Anne actually got into a little argument over this, 38 00:02:19,845 --> 00:02:22,765 Speaker 2: and Melissa left the house that day without them resolving it. 39 00:02:23,885 --> 00:02:26,965 Speaker 2: After Melissa left, mary Anne felt bad about the argument, 40 00:02:27,525 --> 00:02:29,885 Speaker 2: so she left Melissa a note telling her to come 41 00:02:29,885 --> 00:02:32,645 Speaker 2: to Bowling World that night, where mary Anne was part 42 00:02:32,685 --> 00:02:35,885 Speaker 2: of a lady's bowling league. In the note, mary Anne 43 00:02:35,925 --> 00:02:38,485 Speaker 2: apologized for getting upset with her and offered to buy 44 00:02:38,525 --> 00:02:40,445 Speaker 2: her a hamburger when they saw each other that night, 45 00:02:41,245 --> 00:02:45,525 Speaker 2: she signed the note love Mom. Melissa did go to 46 00:02:45,565 --> 00:02:48,325 Speaker 2: meet her mom that night at Bowling World, but she 47 00:02:48,485 --> 00:02:54,365 Speaker 2: never made it inside. Instead, Melissa disappeared and Mary Anne 48 00:02:54,685 --> 00:02:59,085 Speaker 2: never saw her daughter alive again. For days, no one 49 00:02:59,165 --> 00:03:03,565 Speaker 2: noticed that Melissa's brand new white nineteen ninety five Mitsubishi 50 00:03:03,605 --> 00:03:06,165 Speaker 2: Mirage was parked in a far corner of that parking lot, 51 00:03:06,845 --> 00:03:08,445 Speaker 2: and no one noticed the blood. 52 00:03:09,325 --> 00:03:12,965 Speaker 3: Are you and it's being lookout for? A Melissa Whitt 53 00:03:13,445 --> 00:03:17,525 Speaker 3: be a white female nineteen years of age fot five, 54 00:03:18,645 --> 00:03:25,765 Speaker 3: have hazel eyes, brownish blond hair. I've seen Thursday, December First. 55 00:03:27,885 --> 00:04:15,405 Speaker 2: I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. 56 00:04:16,165 --> 00:04:17,565 Speaker 4: Hi Catherine, this is LaDonna. 57 00:04:17,845 --> 00:04:20,605 Speaker 1: I just wanted to talk to you about the Melissa whitcase. 58 00:04:21,605 --> 00:04:24,765 Speaker 2: I was introduced to the Melissa Whit case through Lodonna Humphrey, 59 00:04:25,365 --> 00:04:29,565 Speaker 2: a private investigator and native of Northwest Arkansas. We've been 60 00:04:29,605 --> 00:04:32,125 Speaker 2: talking about Melissa's case for a couple of years now. 61 00:04:32,845 --> 00:04:36,005 Speaker 2: Lodonna has devoted years of her life to investigating the 62 00:04:36,045 --> 00:04:39,205 Speaker 2: case and to getting justice from Melissa's family and friends. 63 00:04:40,005 --> 00:04:43,045 Speaker 2: She's also written two books about Melissa called The Girl 64 00:04:43,085 --> 00:04:46,805 Speaker 2: I Never Knew and Strangled, and made a documentary about 65 00:04:46,805 --> 00:04:49,525 Speaker 2: the case called Uneven Ground The Melissa Whit Story. 66 00:04:50,165 --> 00:04:51,045 Speaker 4: I have been a part of. 67 00:04:50,965 --> 00:04:54,685 Speaker 1: A nonprofit that I had founded called Let's Bring Them Home. 68 00:04:55,005 --> 00:05:00,165 Speaker 1: We offered support to families who had adult cases that 69 00:05:00,205 --> 00:05:03,365 Speaker 1: had gone missing, and we acted as a liaison between 70 00:05:03,405 --> 00:05:05,765 Speaker 1: the family and law enforcement, and we wanted to film 71 00:05:05,765 --> 00:05:10,325 Speaker 1: a documentary. Our team got together and everyone kept bringing 72 00:05:10,405 --> 00:05:13,965 Speaker 1: up the Melissa Wit case, and I was really actually 73 00:05:13,965 --> 00:05:16,645 Speaker 1: against it in the beginning because obviously she's. 74 00:05:16,485 --> 00:05:18,685 Speaker 4: Not a long term missing case. They found her body 75 00:05:18,725 --> 00:05:19,645 Speaker 4: six weeks after. 76 00:05:19,485 --> 00:05:23,245 Speaker 1: She disappeared, but the team out voted me, sent me 77 00:05:23,325 --> 00:05:24,725 Speaker 1: to Fort Smith, and really. 78 00:05:24,645 --> 00:05:25,845 Speaker 4: Kind of the rest is history. 79 00:05:26,005 --> 00:05:29,005 Speaker 1: Once I met with law enforcement and realized how passionate 80 00:05:29,005 --> 00:05:31,005 Speaker 1: they were about the case, I knew that I needed 81 00:05:31,005 --> 00:05:35,565 Speaker 1: to get involved, and was initially just for the documentary, 82 00:05:35,605 --> 00:05:38,125 Speaker 1: and then it really morphed into me being more involved 83 00:05:38,205 --> 00:05:40,325 Speaker 1: in the day to day things that were happening with 84 00:05:40,365 --> 00:05:40,845 Speaker 1: her case. 85 00:05:42,005 --> 00:05:44,925 Speaker 2: Lo Donna had a unique experience. She was able to 86 00:05:44,965 --> 00:05:47,365 Speaker 2: gain the trust of j c Ryder, who was the 87 00:05:47,445 --> 00:05:52,205 Speaker 2: lead investigator on Melissa's case for yearsle Donna got access 88 00:05:52,205 --> 00:05:52,885 Speaker 2: to the case file. 89 00:05:54,125 --> 00:05:57,565 Speaker 1: I had brought some information to them in my initial 90 00:05:57,605 --> 00:06:01,765 Speaker 1: work with the documentary that started putting some pieces together. 91 00:06:01,525 --> 00:06:06,285 Speaker 4: For them and kind of led them to a. 92 00:06:06,205 --> 00:06:09,605 Speaker 1: Suspect that they've had all along, okay, because he started 93 00:06:09,645 --> 00:06:10,325 Speaker 1: contacting me. 94 00:06:10,365 --> 00:06:12,605 Speaker 4: Because this was before I was a private investigator. I 95 00:06:12,645 --> 00:06:16,485 Speaker 4: was just normal citizen, you know, filmmaker doing my thing. 96 00:06:16,885 --> 00:06:19,725 Speaker 4: And I think that they realized that this. 97 00:06:19,565 --> 00:06:22,205 Speaker 1: Could be a perfect storm really for the whitb case 98 00:06:22,285 --> 00:06:24,805 Speaker 1: because it was bringing renewed interest. But not only that, 99 00:06:25,285 --> 00:06:28,765 Speaker 1: there was information that was coming into the case that 100 00:06:28,885 --> 00:06:30,765 Speaker 1: was valuable that I was turning. 101 00:06:30,485 --> 00:06:32,365 Speaker 4: Over to them that they had never gotten before. 102 00:06:32,645 --> 00:06:36,725 Speaker 1: And they made a decision then as a department that 103 00:06:37,045 --> 00:06:38,485 Speaker 1: they were going to allow me to. 104 00:06:38,445 --> 00:06:40,525 Speaker 4: See the case files. There was a bunch of rules 105 00:06:40,525 --> 00:06:40,965 Speaker 4: around it. 106 00:06:41,085 --> 00:06:43,285 Speaker 1: I couldn't take any of it with me, you know, 107 00:06:43,285 --> 00:06:47,485 Speaker 1: I couldn't share the information in the film some of it. 108 00:06:47,565 --> 00:06:49,605 Speaker 4: But they felt like I needed to know some of the. 109 00:06:49,565 --> 00:06:52,445 Speaker 1: Information basically because I was dealing with some of the 110 00:06:52,565 --> 00:06:57,165 Speaker 1: characters that they were looking at really closely in Melissa's murder. 111 00:06:57,325 --> 00:07:00,565 Speaker 1: But yeah, it was interesting because that doesn't happen very often. 112 00:07:00,525 --> 00:07:02,045 Speaker 4: And they allow me. 113 00:07:02,045 --> 00:07:04,085 Speaker 1: To the day to continue to stay involved in the 114 00:07:04,125 --> 00:07:07,525 Speaker 1: case because now more of a partnership than anything else 115 00:07:07,725 --> 00:07:10,525 Speaker 1: to get justice from Melissa. 116 00:07:11,045 --> 00:07:13,165 Speaker 2: We're going to go through some of the theories in 117 00:07:13,205 --> 00:07:16,165 Speaker 2: the case, but first we have to go back to 118 00:07:16,205 --> 00:07:19,565 Speaker 2: the beginning, to the last twenty four hours of Melissa's 119 00:07:19,605 --> 00:07:23,925 Speaker 2: life to see if there's anything that we missed. Melissa 120 00:07:24,005 --> 00:07:28,365 Speaker 2: was pretty bubbly, friendly and kind. Her friend Tara, talked 121 00:07:28,365 --> 00:07:31,125 Speaker 2: to local news channel News five about how she became 122 00:07:31,205 --> 00:07:33,685 Speaker 2: fast friends with Melissa when they were around five or 123 00:07:33,725 --> 00:07:36,685 Speaker 2: six years old. She said that they would ride their 124 00:07:36,725 --> 00:07:39,765 Speaker 2: bikes around town and go to local fast food restaurants 125 00:07:39,805 --> 00:07:43,125 Speaker 2: like KFC and Hardy's. They would buy candy cigarettes and 126 00:07:43,125 --> 00:07:45,805 Speaker 2: pretend to smoke them. When they got to high school, 127 00:07:46,365 --> 00:07:50,485 Speaker 2: Tara said Melissa always retained that friendly innocence. They would 128 00:07:50,525 --> 00:07:53,565 Speaker 2: cruise around town on the weekends. Melissa would talk about 129 00:07:53,605 --> 00:07:56,565 Speaker 2: boys who she thought were cute, but for the most part, 130 00:07:56,805 --> 00:08:00,845 Speaker 2: Tara said, Melissa remained focused on school. Melissa was an 131 00:08:00,885 --> 00:08:03,965 Speaker 2: honor student and a cheerleader. She didn't have a regular 132 00:08:03,965 --> 00:08:06,085 Speaker 2: boyfriend in high school, but she did have lots of 133 00:08:06,085 --> 00:08:11,485 Speaker 2: friends After graduation, Melissa enrolled at West Dark Community College, 134 00:08:11,685 --> 00:08:13,805 Speaker 2: which is now part of the University of Arkansas at 135 00:08:13,805 --> 00:08:17,525 Speaker 2: Fort Smith. Melissa also had a part time job at 136 00:08:17,525 --> 00:08:21,245 Speaker 2: a dentist's office. She was studying to be a dental assistant. 137 00:08:22,005 --> 00:08:25,445 Speaker 2: On that Thursday, after leaving home, Melissa had classes in 138 00:08:25,485 --> 00:08:28,205 Speaker 2: the morning, then she had lunch with a friend at 139 00:08:28,205 --> 00:08:31,925 Speaker 2: the mall. That afternoon, she went over to Family Dentistry, 140 00:08:32,005 --> 00:08:35,365 Speaker 2: the dentist office where she worked. The dentist, doctor Jennings, 141 00:08:35,445 --> 00:08:37,965 Speaker 2: and the rest of her colleagues said Melissa was her 142 00:08:38,005 --> 00:08:41,645 Speaker 2: happy and normal, bubbly self. Nothing seemed out of the 143 00:08:41,725 --> 00:08:46,205 Speaker 2: ordinary that day. Melissa left work a little after five pm. 144 00:08:46,685 --> 00:08:50,325 Speaker 2: But then something out of the ordinary did happen, because 145 00:08:50,365 --> 00:08:54,085 Speaker 2: when she got outside, her car wouldn't start. Now, a 146 00:08:54,125 --> 00:08:57,765 Speaker 2: woman Melissa worked with told five News that what happened 147 00:08:57,805 --> 00:09:00,045 Speaker 2: was Melissa had left her lights on for too long, 148 00:09:00,565 --> 00:09:03,725 Speaker 2: so she needed to get a jump. This coworker said 149 00:09:03,725 --> 00:09:06,445 Speaker 2: they were looking for someone with jumper cable. They went 150 00:09:06,525 --> 00:09:08,485 Speaker 2: next door and found a guy who worked at a 151 00:09:08,485 --> 00:09:11,725 Speaker 2: business there. This was the person La Donna called the 152 00:09:11,725 --> 00:09:15,445 Speaker 2: Good Samaritan in her book. The Good Samaritan helped Melissa 153 00:09:15,525 --> 00:09:19,485 Speaker 2: jumpstarter car. The coworker told the news station that she 154 00:09:19,605 --> 00:09:22,805 Speaker 2: stayed to watch Melissa start the jump process. Then when 155 00:09:22,805 --> 00:09:25,485 Speaker 2: the cables were attached, she told Melissa to just leave 156 00:09:25,525 --> 00:09:27,965 Speaker 2: her car running for like fifteen minutes to make sure 157 00:09:28,005 --> 00:09:32,645 Speaker 2: the battery was charged. Then the coworker left. Now, in 158 00:09:32,725 --> 00:09:36,525 Speaker 2: her book and in multiple media reports, we learned that 159 00:09:36,605 --> 00:09:39,525 Speaker 2: the Good Samaritan was cleared by police pretty early in 160 00:09:39,565 --> 00:09:44,445 Speaker 2: the investigation. But as we know from previous seasons of Helengne, 161 00:09:45,125 --> 00:09:49,445 Speaker 2: we can't assume anything. I asked LaDonna about the Good Samaritan. 162 00:09:50,325 --> 00:09:53,005 Speaker 4: You know, obviously when someone goes missing, as you know, 163 00:09:53,365 --> 00:09:56,245 Speaker 4: they're going to look at the day's activities closely. 164 00:09:56,285 --> 00:09:59,325 Speaker 1: And of course that was pretty suspicious to law enforcement 165 00:09:59,485 --> 00:10:02,925 Speaker 1: because to have her car not started, and they looked 166 00:10:02,925 --> 00:10:05,805 Speaker 1: at that really, really closely. The Good Samaritan, who they 167 00:10:05,845 --> 00:10:08,885 Speaker 1: try not to name just to not disrupt his life, 168 00:10:09,405 --> 00:10:13,485 Speaker 1: he worked nearby to the dental office, and as it 169 00:10:13,525 --> 00:10:16,245 Speaker 1: turns out, she had left her lights on her car 170 00:10:16,645 --> 00:10:18,725 Speaker 1: most of the day, starting from when she had been 171 00:10:18,765 --> 00:10:21,525 Speaker 1: at the mall to have lunch, and that's what killed 172 00:10:21,525 --> 00:10:25,165 Speaker 1: the battery, and so they looked at him so closely. 173 00:10:25,365 --> 00:10:28,805 Speaker 1: In fact, I think He was probably interviewed maybe half 174 00:10:28,845 --> 00:10:30,165 Speaker 1: a dozen times. 175 00:10:29,885 --> 00:10:33,645 Speaker 4: And he just had no connection to what had happened 176 00:10:33,645 --> 00:10:33,965 Speaker 4: to her. 177 00:10:34,485 --> 00:10:37,125 Speaker 1: It was one of those things that you know, he 178 00:10:37,285 --> 00:10:38,845 Speaker 1: was a good smart and he helped her, but it 179 00:10:38,845 --> 00:10:40,485 Speaker 1: was almost like he was at the wrong place at 180 00:10:40,485 --> 00:10:43,205 Speaker 1: the wrong time because she went missing that day, but 181 00:10:43,285 --> 00:10:45,205 Speaker 1: he was completely cleared by law enforcement. 182 00:10:46,285 --> 00:10:50,165 Speaker 2: After getting her car started, Melissa drove home, which was 183 00:10:50,205 --> 00:10:53,125 Speaker 2: just a few minutes from the dental office. She left 184 00:10:53,165 --> 00:10:55,245 Speaker 2: work at five point fifty, so this would have put 185 00:10:55,245 --> 00:10:59,045 Speaker 2: her home a little after six. Her dental scrubs were 186 00:10:59,045 --> 00:11:01,805 Speaker 2: found crumpled up on her bedroom floor, like she had 187 00:11:01,845 --> 00:11:04,725 Speaker 2: taken them off to do a quick clothing change, and 188 00:11:04,765 --> 00:11:08,245 Speaker 2: her mom later told investigators that, based on the clothes 189 00:11:08,285 --> 00:11:11,965 Speaker 2: that were missing, Melissa changed into jeans, a white V 190 00:11:12,085 --> 00:11:15,885 Speaker 2: neck sweater, silver hoop, earrings with a wavy pattern on them, 191 00:11:16,005 --> 00:11:20,445 Speaker 2: and a Mickey Mouse wristwatch. Police figured out later that 192 00:11:20,565 --> 00:11:24,725 Speaker 2: Melissa must have seen her mother's note because Melissa then 193 00:11:24,805 --> 00:11:29,365 Speaker 2: headed out to Bowling World. Investigators estimated Melissa arrived at 194 00:11:29,365 --> 00:11:33,205 Speaker 2: Bowling World between six point thirty and seven PM. Now 195 00:11:33,245 --> 00:11:35,845 Speaker 2: at that time, the parking lot would have been pretty full. 196 00:11:36,405 --> 00:11:39,765 Speaker 2: The Bowling League was popular. By the time Melissa got there, 197 00:11:39,885 --> 00:11:43,205 Speaker 2: pretty much everyone would have been inside, which is part 198 00:11:43,205 --> 00:11:46,645 Speaker 2: of the reason why police later could not find many witnesses. 199 00:11:47,485 --> 00:11:52,005 Speaker 2: But Melissa never made it inside. Mary Anne, of course 200 00:11:52,085 --> 00:11:55,205 Speaker 2: noticed that Melissa never showed up at Bowling World, and 201 00:11:55,285 --> 00:11:57,685 Speaker 2: after she got home and saw Melissa's car was not 202 00:11:57,725 --> 00:12:02,605 Speaker 2: there at the house, she got worried. Maryanne called Melissa's friends, 203 00:12:03,005 --> 00:12:07,005 Speaker 2: but no one had seen her. Next morning, Friday morning, 204 00:12:07,365 --> 00:12:10,045 Speaker 2: Melissa's friend Tara, said that her mother walked into her 205 00:12:10,125 --> 00:12:13,365 Speaker 2: room and asked if she'd heard from Melissa. Her mom 206 00:12:13,405 --> 00:12:15,765 Speaker 2: said mary Anne had called the house looking for Melissa. 207 00:12:16,325 --> 00:12:18,885 Speaker 2: Tara said no, but she said they were supposed to 208 00:12:18,885 --> 00:12:21,565 Speaker 2: go out on that Friday night. She figured they would 209 00:12:21,605 --> 00:12:25,805 Speaker 2: catch up later. Then Tara went to class. They had 210 00:12:25,845 --> 00:12:28,485 Speaker 2: a biology class together, and when Melissa didn't show up 211 00:12:28,485 --> 00:12:33,005 Speaker 2: in that biology class, Tara immediately suspected something bad had happened. 212 00:12:33,645 --> 00:12:38,245 Speaker 2: This was not like Melissa. Melissa was extremely responsible. That's 213 00:12:38,285 --> 00:12:41,805 Speaker 2: when Marianne went to the police. But then the first 214 00:12:41,845 --> 00:12:44,485 Speaker 2: officer to talk to mary Anne, in my opinion, made 215 00:12:44,525 --> 00:12:48,445 Speaker 2: a crucial and unfortunately a far too common error. We 216 00:12:48,565 --> 00:12:50,965 Speaker 2: see this over and over in this podcast and in 217 00:12:50,965 --> 00:12:54,805 Speaker 2: our investigations. Mary Anne was talking about what happened that morning, 218 00:12:54,925 --> 00:12:57,805 Speaker 2: and she mentioned that small argument she had gotten into 219 00:12:57,845 --> 00:13:01,325 Speaker 2: with Melissa over the twenty dollars that apparently led the 220 00:13:01,405 --> 00:13:04,485 Speaker 2: officer to believe that Melissa could have been a runaway. 221 00:13:05,245 --> 00:13:09,805 Speaker 2: Since Melissa was over eighteen and was an adult, of course, 222 00:13:09,885 --> 00:13:12,645 Speaker 2: she did have the right to disappear voluntarily, but mary 223 00:13:12,645 --> 00:13:16,045 Speaker 2: Anne and all Melissa's friends kept telling police there was 224 00:13:16,045 --> 00:13:18,485 Speaker 2: no way she would do that. This was not like Melissa, 225 00:13:18,805 --> 00:13:21,965 Speaker 2: this was completely out of character. She would not just disappear. 226 00:13:22,885 --> 00:13:26,805 Speaker 2: Because of this delay by police, crucial hours in the 227 00:13:26,805 --> 00:13:31,085 Speaker 2: beginning of the investigation were lost. Melissa's family did not 228 00:13:31,125 --> 00:13:33,605 Speaker 2: want to wait, so they got together with some of 229 00:13:33,605 --> 00:13:35,725 Speaker 2: her friends and other members of the community and they 230 00:13:35,765 --> 00:13:39,245 Speaker 2: started searching for her. They printed thousands of flyers with 231 00:13:39,285 --> 00:13:41,965 Speaker 2: Melissa's picture on them. They also put her picture on 232 00:13:42,005 --> 00:13:45,925 Speaker 2: billboards around town. Local news media took the story and 233 00:13:46,045 --> 00:13:49,005 Speaker 2: ran with it, and once that story hit local news, 234 00:13:49,285 --> 00:13:52,885 Speaker 2: a crucial tip came in. A Bowling World employee called 235 00:13:52,885 --> 00:13:55,285 Speaker 2: the police and told them that on the night Melissa 236 00:13:55,285 --> 00:13:58,525 Speaker 2: went missing, a construction worker and his family turned in 237 00:13:58,565 --> 00:14:01,165 Speaker 2: a set of keys they found in the parking lot. 238 00:14:01,365 --> 00:14:04,525 Speaker 2: This happened at around seven forty five PM, so this 239 00:14:04,565 --> 00:14:06,765 Speaker 2: would have been just a few minutes after police say 240 00:14:06,805 --> 00:14:10,645 Speaker 2: Melissa arrived at Bowling World. The key ring had Missy 241 00:14:10,685 --> 00:14:15,445 Speaker 2: written on it. The keys belonged to Melissa. Later forensic 242 00:14:15,485 --> 00:14:18,965 Speaker 2: testing would reveal they had tiny specks of blood on them. 243 00:14:19,485 --> 00:14:22,765 Speaker 2: At that point police did suspect foul play. They turned 244 00:14:22,765 --> 00:14:25,605 Speaker 2: the case over to the Fort Smith Major Crimes Unit 245 00:14:26,205 --> 00:14:29,125 Speaker 2: and that's when investigator J. C. Rder took over the case. 246 00:14:30,005 --> 00:14:32,885 Speaker 2: Now should mention here that J. C Ryder has his 247 00:14:32,965 --> 00:14:37,125 Speaker 2: own checkered history. Ledonna has worked with him for years. 248 00:14:37,645 --> 00:14:40,525 Speaker 2: She presents him as a competent, carrying investigator who's been 249 00:14:40,525 --> 00:14:43,365 Speaker 2: instrumental in getting the word out about Melissa WIT's case 250 00:14:43,845 --> 00:14:47,725 Speaker 2: and never giving up. But as you all know, I 251 00:14:47,765 --> 00:14:50,965 Speaker 2: don't take anything for granted, including the backgrounds of the 252 00:14:50,965 --> 00:14:55,365 Speaker 2: people investigating the case. The allegations against J. C. Rider 253 00:14:55,485 --> 00:14:57,965 Speaker 2: go back to a man named Ron Fields. He was 254 00:14:58,005 --> 00:15:00,725 Speaker 2: the deputy prosecuting attorney in Fort Smith from the late 255 00:15:00,805 --> 00:15:04,205 Speaker 2: seventies until two thousand and five. Back in nineteen ninety five, 256 00:15:04,285 --> 00:15:07,205 Speaker 2: when J. C Ryder was p police captain, the FBI 257 00:15:07,405 --> 00:15:11,685 Speaker 2: investigated claims that ron Fields was dealing drugs and operating 258 00:15:11,765 --> 00:15:14,365 Speaker 2: basically a hit squad that some people compared to the 259 00:15:14,405 --> 00:15:18,365 Speaker 2: movie That Departed Inside the Fort Smith Police Department, the 260 00:15:18,445 --> 00:15:23,005 Speaker 2: FBI investigated allegations that ron Fields ordered j. C Ryder 261 00:15:23,045 --> 00:15:26,285 Speaker 2: to kill a woman named Lourie Murchison and to get 262 00:15:26,365 --> 00:15:28,885 Speaker 2: rid of her body. We're actually going to do an 263 00:15:29,045 --> 00:15:33,525 Speaker 2: entirely separate episode about Lourie Murchison. It's way too complex 264 00:15:33,565 --> 00:15:37,285 Speaker 2: and comprehensive to cover here, but needless to say, ron 265 00:15:37,405 --> 00:15:42,485 Speaker 2: Fields later became a suspect in Laurie's disappearance. J c Ryder, 266 00:15:42,565 --> 00:15:46,325 Speaker 2: through his attorneys, has always maintained that those federal charges 267 00:15:46,405 --> 00:15:50,285 Speaker 2: were completely ridiculous and not true. Jac's lawyer at the 268 00:15:50,285 --> 00:15:54,565 Speaker 2: time told the Arkansas Democrat Gazette that their quote absolutely nuts. 269 00:15:55,205 --> 00:15:58,725 Speaker 2: The lawyer said the FBI basically went in and intimidated 270 00:15:58,765 --> 00:16:02,205 Speaker 2: and threatened people to give them information. The lawyer said 271 00:16:02,205 --> 00:16:05,765 Speaker 2: the whole thing was a witch hunt. The police detective 272 00:16:05,805 --> 00:16:08,525 Speaker 2: who led the investigation into Lourie's death also back j 273 00:16:08,645 --> 00:16:12,725 Speaker 2: c Ryder. The detective said the evidence pointed to Lourie 274 00:16:12,805 --> 00:16:15,965 Speaker 2: dying of a drug overdose and that there was a 275 00:16:16,005 --> 00:16:19,125 Speaker 2: suspect in that case, someone who was imprisoned in Oklahoma, 276 00:16:19,125 --> 00:16:22,525 Speaker 2: a place where Lourie traveled often, but the detective said 277 00:16:22,525 --> 00:16:24,845 Speaker 2: they just didn't have enough evidence to charge that person 278 00:16:24,965 --> 00:16:29,725 Speaker 2: in connection with Laurie's death. Going back to Melissa wit So, 279 00:16:29,885 --> 00:16:34,045 Speaker 2: now it's December fourth, three days after Melissa disappeared. J. C. 280 00:16:34,245 --> 00:16:36,605 Speaker 2: Ryder was assigned to the case. He and his fellow 281 00:16:36,645 --> 00:16:40,845 Speaker 2: detectives immediately searched the parking lot of Bowling World and 282 00:16:40,925 --> 00:16:44,405 Speaker 2: they found Melissa's white car abandoned there in the northwest 283 00:16:44,405 --> 00:16:48,325 Speaker 2: corner of the parking lot, so her car had been 284 00:16:48,365 --> 00:16:49,965 Speaker 2: sitting there for three days. 285 00:16:50,525 --> 00:16:50,685 Speaker 1: Now. 286 00:16:50,725 --> 00:16:52,925 Speaker 2: This seemed a little bit weird at first that no 287 00:16:52,965 --> 00:16:56,845 Speaker 2: one noticed that, but Melissa's mom hadn't seen it because 288 00:16:56,925 --> 00:16:58,845 Speaker 2: again it was in the outer part of the lot 289 00:16:59,485 --> 00:17:01,845 Speaker 2: when she came out and didn't see Melissa that night, 290 00:17:01,925 --> 00:17:04,725 Speaker 2: she just assumed that Melissa never came to Bowling World. 291 00:17:05,805 --> 00:17:09,325 Speaker 2: Officers searched around that car and they found drops of blood. 292 00:17:10,125 --> 00:17:13,005 Speaker 2: Melissa's blood had never been tested, so they couldn't confirm 293 00:17:13,045 --> 00:17:15,525 Speaker 2: then that it was a match. But the drops of 294 00:17:15,525 --> 00:17:18,725 Speaker 2: blood led pretty much from Melissa's vehicle over to the 295 00:17:18,765 --> 00:17:22,725 Speaker 2: next row of cars. So the police theory was that 296 00:17:22,725 --> 00:17:26,845 Speaker 2: Melissa was attacked and thrown into someone else's vehicle, and 297 00:17:26,885 --> 00:17:30,045 Speaker 2: that the blood either came from her being hit, probably 298 00:17:30,045 --> 00:17:32,925 Speaker 2: with a blunt force object, or when her head hit 299 00:17:32,965 --> 00:17:37,685 Speaker 2: the parking lot pavement. Now police had what they believed 300 00:17:37,685 --> 00:17:44,405 Speaker 2: to be the primary crime scene, they started looking for witnesses. Initially, 301 00:17:44,485 --> 00:17:47,845 Speaker 2: there were reports that witnesses had seen Melissa with someone 302 00:17:47,885 --> 00:17:51,885 Speaker 2: they described as a black, six foot two male. Rumors 303 00:17:51,925 --> 00:17:54,125 Speaker 2: were flying that she had been involved in drug deals 304 00:17:54,205 --> 00:17:57,525 Speaker 2: or sex trafficking, mainly because at the time there were 305 00:17:57,565 --> 00:18:01,325 Speaker 2: a lot of people who dealt drugs, especially methamphetamines, near 306 00:18:01,365 --> 00:18:06,805 Speaker 2: Fort Chaffee, the military base, but that sighting was later 307 00:18:06,885 --> 00:18:11,765 Speaker 2: confirmed to be a totally erroneous mistake. Police did eventually 308 00:18:11,805 --> 00:18:14,885 Speaker 2: find someone who was a credible witness, a ten year 309 00:18:14,885 --> 00:18:17,165 Speaker 2: old boy who was actually the son of one of 310 00:18:17,165 --> 00:18:21,525 Speaker 2: mary Anne's friends. While his mom was playing with mary 311 00:18:21,525 --> 00:18:24,165 Speaker 2: Anne in the bowling league that night, she sent him 312 00:18:24,165 --> 00:18:26,165 Speaker 2: out to the car to get some textbooks so he 313 00:18:26,165 --> 00:18:29,405 Speaker 2: could start doing his homework. When the boy came back in, 314 00:18:29,805 --> 00:18:32,045 Speaker 2: he said that he saw a man and a woman 315 00:18:32,165 --> 00:18:35,365 Speaker 2: fighting in the parking lot. At the time, his mom 316 00:18:35,405 --> 00:18:39,245 Speaker 2: didn't think too much about it, but police later believed 317 00:18:39,365 --> 00:18:44,165 Speaker 2: that he witnessed Melissa with her abductor. Unfortunately, the boy 318 00:18:44,205 --> 00:18:47,085 Speaker 2: didn't see enough of the kidnapper's appearance to make a 319 00:18:47,085 --> 00:18:51,445 Speaker 2: full sketch. Another early missing poster said Melissa had been 320 00:18:51,445 --> 00:18:55,885 Speaker 2: spotted quote possibly in nineteen eighty one gray Oldsmobile cutlass 321 00:18:56,165 --> 00:18:58,565 Speaker 2: with a tall, white male with black, wavy hair and 322 00:18:58,645 --> 00:19:01,885 Speaker 2: an earring end quote. I saw this tip on a 323 00:19:01,885 --> 00:19:04,805 Speaker 2: missing poster from an old news report, and I still 324 00:19:04,845 --> 00:19:07,645 Speaker 2: don't know who were hoarded it or where that came from. 325 00:19:08,165 --> 00:19:10,965 Speaker 2: As with so many investigations that get a lot of press, 326 00:19:11,645 --> 00:19:14,445 Speaker 2: thousands of tips were flooding in. So now police had 327 00:19:14,445 --> 00:19:16,605 Speaker 2: to figure out which ones were good leads and which 328 00:19:16,645 --> 00:19:20,245 Speaker 2: ones were dead ends. Everyone in town had a theory 329 00:19:20,325 --> 00:19:23,285 Speaker 2: about who could have killed Melissa. Was it a drug 330 00:19:23,325 --> 00:19:25,845 Speaker 2: deal gone bad? Was it a random serial killer who 331 00:19:25,885 --> 00:19:29,445 Speaker 2: came in off Interstate five while passing through town, or 332 00:19:29,525 --> 00:19:33,845 Speaker 2: was it someone she knew. Melissa's personal life didn't seem 333 00:19:34,005 --> 00:19:36,725 Speaker 2: to offer a lot of clues at first. She was 334 00:19:36,765 --> 00:19:39,725 Speaker 2: well liked, She didn't have any enemies. She also didn't 335 00:19:39,765 --> 00:19:43,365 Speaker 2: have any turmoil in her personal relationship, no fighting with 336 00:19:43,405 --> 00:19:47,125 Speaker 2: boyfriends or at least not ones that anyone knew about. 337 00:19:47,445 --> 00:19:51,005 Speaker 2: The holiday season passed mary Anne's first one without her daughter. 338 00:19:52,165 --> 00:19:56,005 Speaker 2: No one had a clue what happened to Melissa. Almost 339 00:19:56,085 --> 00:20:00,245 Speaker 2: six weeks later, on January thirteenth, nineteen ninety five, two 340 00:20:00,325 --> 00:20:03,205 Speaker 2: hunters were near Turner Bend in the Ozark National Forest 341 00:20:03,605 --> 00:20:08,245 Speaker 2: when they saw a nude body. Dental records proved this 342 00:20:08,605 --> 00:20:13,645 Speaker 2: was Melissa Whit. Melissa had been found. This was tragic, 343 00:20:14,325 --> 00:20:16,805 Speaker 2: but detectives hope now they would be able to gather 344 00:20:16,885 --> 00:20:19,645 Speaker 2: evidence from her body, hopefully evidence that would get them 345 00:20:19,685 --> 00:20:24,205 Speaker 2: closer to finding her killer. Melissa was naked, so all 346 00:20:24,245 --> 00:20:28,245 Speaker 2: of her clothing, shoes, and jewelry, including her other earring 347 00:20:28,765 --> 00:20:31,485 Speaker 2: and her Mickey Mouse watch with a brown band, were 348 00:20:31,525 --> 00:20:37,125 Speaker 2: all missing. Her autopsy revealed blunt forest head injuries, either 349 00:20:37,165 --> 00:20:39,685 Speaker 2: from an object she was struck with or possibly from 350 00:20:39,685 --> 00:20:43,565 Speaker 2: her head hitting the ground. Then Melissa's killer or killers 351 00:20:44,245 --> 00:20:46,885 Speaker 2: probably put her into a vehicle in the next row 352 00:20:46,885 --> 00:20:50,045 Speaker 2: of cars. Someone drove her to that area where her 353 00:20:50,085 --> 00:20:54,485 Speaker 2: body was found. Investigators believe that that remote location is 354 00:20:54,525 --> 00:20:58,525 Speaker 2: where Melissa Wit died. It's located down a single lane 355 00:20:58,605 --> 00:21:03,085 Speaker 2: dirt road that's used for logging. The autopsy revealed that 356 00:21:03,165 --> 00:21:08,205 Speaker 2: the cause of death was exphyxiation strangulation. When I spoke 357 00:21:08,285 --> 00:21:11,605 Speaker 2: to her, LaDonna talked about how she retraced Melissa's root 358 00:21:12,485 --> 00:21:14,845 Speaker 2: and how horrifying it must have been for her to 359 00:21:14,885 --> 00:21:17,885 Speaker 2: be riding in that car with a head wound bleeding, 360 00:21:18,645 --> 00:21:21,365 Speaker 2: knowing that something horrible was about to happen to her. 361 00:21:22,125 --> 00:21:22,805 Speaker 4: Love for something. 362 00:21:22,805 --> 00:21:25,405 Speaker 1: They take me out to this remote site in the 363 00:21:25,405 --> 00:21:29,365 Speaker 1: Ozark National Chorus, and I had a sense of dread 364 00:21:29,445 --> 00:21:30,925 Speaker 1: the whole way there because. 365 00:21:30,645 --> 00:21:32,685 Speaker 4: It's it's just this, you know, there's a lot of 366 00:21:32,685 --> 00:21:33,765 Speaker 4: beauty to look at, but. 367 00:21:35,205 --> 00:21:38,005 Speaker 1: Knowing how remote it was as we're you know, winding 368 00:21:38,045 --> 00:21:40,765 Speaker 1: around and seeing like there was nowhere for her to go, 369 00:21:41,485 --> 00:21:42,965 Speaker 1: nowhere for her to escape. 370 00:21:43,005 --> 00:21:44,405 Speaker 4: And when we. 371 00:21:44,605 --> 00:21:46,405 Speaker 1: Parked the car and I got out, one of the 372 00:21:46,405 --> 00:21:48,965 Speaker 1: first things that j c Ryder looked at me and 373 00:21:48,965 --> 00:21:51,645 Speaker 1: said was that if you screamed right. 374 00:21:51,445 --> 00:21:55,445 Speaker 4: Now, La Donna hod Bring, nobody would hear you. And 375 00:21:55,765 --> 00:21:56,965 Speaker 4: I remember being. 376 00:21:58,965 --> 00:22:02,365 Speaker 5: Just almost to the point of tears and I'm not 377 00:22:02,685 --> 00:22:07,325 Speaker 5: like a crier, really very easy, but realizing nineteen year 378 00:22:07,325 --> 00:22:11,085 Speaker 5: old girl was out there at night was someone who 379 00:22:11,245 --> 00:22:13,845 Speaker 5: had already attacked her in a parking lot. She had 380 00:22:13,885 --> 00:22:16,205 Speaker 5: to have known what was going to happen next, the 381 00:22:16,245 --> 00:22:20,965 Speaker 5: amount of fear that she had, and that part of 382 00:22:21,005 --> 00:22:25,285 Speaker 5: the case really broke me, especially seeing where he eventually 383 00:22:25,325 --> 00:22:26,845 Speaker 5: left her body, like she. 384 00:22:26,805 --> 00:22:28,005 Speaker 4: Didn't matter to anybody. 385 00:22:29,405 --> 00:22:32,845 Speaker 2: Investigators said they found pieces of leaves in Melissa's lungs 386 00:22:33,045 --> 00:22:35,325 Speaker 2: and grass and other vegetation that was native to the 387 00:22:35,325 --> 00:22:39,125 Speaker 2: Ozark National Forest in her windpipe. This led them to 388 00:22:39,165 --> 00:22:42,285 Speaker 2: believe that after Melissa was kidnapped from the Bowling World 389 00:22:42,325 --> 00:22:45,365 Speaker 2: parking lot, she was immediately driven to that location in 390 00:22:45,405 --> 00:22:51,725 Speaker 2: the forest, then sexually assaulted and killed there. Because Melissa's 391 00:22:51,725 --> 00:22:54,325 Speaker 2: body was nude, investigators assumed that there had been a 392 00:22:54,325 --> 00:22:58,925 Speaker 2: sexual assault. According to the autopsy report, there was another 393 00:22:59,085 --> 00:23:04,085 Speaker 2: strange twist to the case. Melissa's body had been moved. First, 394 00:23:04,085 --> 00:23:06,205 Speaker 2: it was put behind a large rock that was kind 395 00:23:06,205 --> 00:23:09,125 Speaker 2: of shaped like a tombstone. The body was covered with 396 00:23:09,165 --> 00:23:12,205 Speaker 2: pine leaves and that's where it stayed for several weeks, 397 00:23:12,925 --> 00:23:15,685 Speaker 2: But then just a few days before the body was found, 398 00:23:16,445 --> 00:23:20,805 Speaker 2: someone moved it. Over the years, JC Riders offered up 399 00:23:20,845 --> 00:23:24,045 Speaker 2: a couple of theories about why he believes someone would 400 00:23:24,085 --> 00:23:28,325 Speaker 2: have moved Melissa's body, he said. Either it's because the 401 00:23:28,405 --> 00:23:30,885 Speaker 2: killer wanted credit for the kill, so they wanted the 402 00:23:30,885 --> 00:23:32,485 Speaker 2: body to be found so that it would be written 403 00:23:32,525 --> 00:23:34,765 Speaker 2: about and they would get some kind of celebrity status. 404 00:23:35,445 --> 00:23:38,805 Speaker 2: Or maybe the move was out of sympathy. Maybe it 405 00:23:38,845 --> 00:23:41,485 Speaker 2: was someone who knew Melissa and wanted to make sure 406 00:23:41,565 --> 00:23:43,605 Speaker 2: that she was found so that her friends and family 407 00:23:43,645 --> 00:23:47,325 Speaker 2: would have some kind of closure. There's also a third possibility, 408 00:23:47,365 --> 00:23:50,405 Speaker 2: by the way, that someone who was not Melissa's killer 409 00:23:50,525 --> 00:23:54,405 Speaker 2: or involved in her murder found the body and decided 410 00:23:54,405 --> 00:23:57,205 Speaker 2: to move it, but didn't want to admit that because 411 00:23:57,205 --> 00:24:00,845 Speaker 2: maybe they lived nearby or had history law enforcement, and 412 00:24:01,325 --> 00:24:03,405 Speaker 2: we're just scared to talk to police for some reason. 413 00:24:03,565 --> 00:24:06,125 Speaker 2: This theory was bolstered a little bit when police got 414 00:24:06,165 --> 00:24:09,205 Speaker 2: a mysterious phone call the day before the body was found. 415 00:24:10,445 --> 00:24:13,885 Speaker 2: In that call, it sounded like there were two people talking. 416 00:24:14,485 --> 00:24:16,925 Speaker 2: You could hear an older woman. Police later said. It 417 00:24:16,965 --> 00:24:19,845 Speaker 2: sounded like a grandmother and a grandson, and you can 418 00:24:19,885 --> 00:24:22,245 Speaker 2: hear the woman saying, tell them what you found, Tell 419 00:24:22,285 --> 00:24:26,805 Speaker 2: them what you found. Then the caller hangs up. Police 420 00:24:26,845 --> 00:24:30,765 Speaker 2: cannot definitively say that that caller was connected to Melissa 421 00:24:30,805 --> 00:24:33,965 Speaker 2: Whit but the timing seems like a pretty big coincidence. 422 00:24:34,845 --> 00:24:37,925 Speaker 2: Police never found that caller, and back then they had 423 00:24:37,925 --> 00:24:41,125 Speaker 2: no way to trace them. Le Donna has said, by 424 00:24:41,125 --> 00:24:43,445 Speaker 2: the way, that she does not agree with law enforcements 425 00:24:43,525 --> 00:24:47,325 Speaker 2: theory because the night Melissa was killed was a really 426 00:24:47,365 --> 00:24:51,645 Speaker 2: cold night. She thinks it's possible Melissa was sexually assaulted 427 00:24:51,645 --> 00:24:55,325 Speaker 2: somewhere else, maybe even kept somewhere for days or weeks, 428 00:24:56,005 --> 00:24:58,245 Speaker 2: and then was murdered near where the body was dumped. 429 00:24:59,245 --> 00:25:01,045 Speaker 2: When I look at these cases, I always go back 430 00:25:01,085 --> 00:25:03,565 Speaker 2: to the very beginning. I asked myself if it was 431 00:25:03,645 --> 00:25:07,525 Speaker 2: possible that Bowling World was not the primary crime scene. 432 00:25:07,765 --> 00:25:10,405 Speaker 2: Maybe Melissa had left that parking lot with someone and 433 00:25:10,485 --> 00:25:12,765 Speaker 2: later they took the car back and parked it there. 434 00:25:12,805 --> 00:25:15,605 Speaker 2: After all, it wasn't found for three days. I have 435 00:25:15,805 --> 00:25:19,365 Speaker 2: seen this in other cases. Anyone who has basic knowledge 436 00:25:19,365 --> 00:25:22,325 Speaker 2: of crime scenes. No, if you can waste police time 437 00:25:22,685 --> 00:25:25,245 Speaker 2: by staging a false crime scene, you can throw them 438 00:25:25,285 --> 00:25:29,845 Speaker 2: off the trail for quite a while. But Melissa's keys 439 00:25:29,965 --> 00:25:31,845 Speaker 2: and the spots of blood made me think this is 440 00:25:31,925 --> 00:25:35,205 Speaker 2: much less likely because those keys were turned in at 441 00:25:35,205 --> 00:25:38,405 Speaker 2: around seven forty five pm. But the fact that the 442 00:25:38,445 --> 00:25:41,765 Speaker 2: body was moved, and some other little odd tidbits about 443 00:25:41,765 --> 00:25:45,445 Speaker 2: this case made me think it's definitely possible that the 444 00:25:45,485 --> 00:25:50,125 Speaker 2: crime scene was stage. Maybe sexual assault wasn't the motive. 445 00:25:50,605 --> 00:25:53,525 Speaker 2: Maybe someone was angry with Melissa and hit her and 446 00:25:53,565 --> 00:25:55,285 Speaker 2: then took her out to the dumb site and took 447 00:25:55,285 --> 00:25:58,645 Speaker 2: her clothes off, even to conceal evidence, or also maybe 448 00:25:58,685 --> 00:26:01,165 Speaker 2: to make it look like a random serial killer did it. 449 00:26:02,325 --> 00:26:04,845 Speaker 2: So let's go back to what could have happened that 450 00:26:04,965 --> 00:26:08,685 Speaker 2: night in the parking lot at Bowling World. Melissa got 451 00:26:08,685 --> 00:26:11,365 Speaker 2: to Bowling World. The parking lot was pretty full because 452 00:26:11,365 --> 00:26:15,325 Speaker 2: of the Ladies' leak. Almost everyone was inside. Melissa got 453 00:26:15,325 --> 00:26:18,605 Speaker 2: out of her car, and whatever happened had to happen 454 00:26:18,645 --> 00:26:21,005 Speaker 2: really quickly because she had her keys in her hand. 455 00:26:22,125 --> 00:26:25,045 Speaker 2: Presumably she didn't take the time to lock her car 456 00:26:25,165 --> 00:26:27,685 Speaker 2: and put them into her purse because her purse was missing, 457 00:26:27,725 --> 00:26:31,365 Speaker 2: but the keys were there. Melissa started arguing with someone. 458 00:26:31,845 --> 00:26:35,525 Speaker 2: The argument got heated. Maybe she got scared and went 459 00:26:35,565 --> 00:26:39,045 Speaker 2: to get back inside her car. But before she had 460 00:26:39,085 --> 00:26:40,645 Speaker 2: time to put the keys in the door and to 461 00:26:40,645 --> 00:26:43,405 Speaker 2: get back in her car to safety, the killer hit 462 00:26:43,485 --> 00:26:46,445 Speaker 2: her over the head with a blunt forsce object. Grabbed 463 00:26:46,445 --> 00:26:49,485 Speaker 2: her and threw her into their vehicle. This would have 464 00:26:49,565 --> 00:26:52,645 Speaker 2: taken just a few seconds, just long enough for the 465 00:26:52,725 --> 00:26:54,645 Speaker 2: keys to slip out of her hands, and that would 466 00:26:54,685 --> 00:26:58,245 Speaker 2: also explain another piece of evidence they found there, Melissa's 467 00:26:58,245 --> 00:27:02,245 Speaker 2: crushed hair clip. The killer or killers grabbed Melissa's bag 468 00:27:02,325 --> 00:27:05,285 Speaker 2: and threw it in the vehicle with them, but probably 469 00:27:05,325 --> 00:27:10,405 Speaker 2: in their panic, they didn't notice those keys. Almost every 470 00:27:10,445 --> 00:27:13,685 Speaker 2: single theory that has been mentioned in connection with this case, 471 00:27:13,845 --> 00:27:15,645 Speaker 2: all of them have one thing in common. This was 472 00:27:15,725 --> 00:27:19,445 Speaker 2: not a planned attack. This was something probably an argument 473 00:27:19,485 --> 00:27:22,445 Speaker 2: that got out of control and escalated, which brings us 474 00:27:22,485 --> 00:27:25,365 Speaker 2: back to who would have known that Melissa was going 475 00:27:25,405 --> 00:27:28,525 Speaker 2: to be there that night. Over the years, police have 476 00:27:28,605 --> 00:27:31,645 Speaker 2: gotten thousands of tips. There have been a few people 477 00:27:31,685 --> 00:27:33,805 Speaker 2: of interests who've come up over and over, and we're 478 00:27:33,805 --> 00:27:37,445 Speaker 2: going to go over those now. One person of interest 479 00:27:37,605 --> 00:27:40,725 Speaker 2: who was mentioned pretty early on was a guy named 480 00:27:40,845 --> 00:27:44,365 Speaker 2: Larry Sweeringin He was convicted of the nineteen ninety nine 481 00:27:44,445 --> 00:27:47,125 Speaker 2: murder of a young woman named Melissa Trotter in Texas. 482 00:27:47,965 --> 00:27:50,005 Speaker 2: Le Donna wrote in her book there were actually a 483 00:27:50,045 --> 00:27:53,365 Speaker 2: lot of similarities, at least on the surface, between Melissa 484 00:27:53,365 --> 00:27:56,765 Speaker 2: Trotter's case and Melissa WIT's case. Other than the obvious, 485 00:27:56,805 --> 00:27:59,485 Speaker 2: which is they had the same first name. Both Melissa 486 00:27:59,485 --> 00:28:02,565 Speaker 2: Trotter and Melissa Witt were nineteen years old. Both of 487 00:28:02,605 --> 00:28:05,885 Speaker 2: them were strangled. Both were found several weeks after they 488 00:28:05,965 --> 00:28:10,485 Speaker 2: disappeared in national forest areas. Melissa Trotter's body was found 489 00:28:10,525 --> 00:28:14,005 Speaker 2: on January twenty second, nineteen ninety nine, in sam Houston 490 00:28:14,085 --> 00:28:17,925 Speaker 2: National Forest in Texas. Melissa Trotter had a knife wound 491 00:28:18,005 --> 00:28:20,605 Speaker 2: on her neck, her throat had been cut, and the 492 00:28:20,645 --> 00:28:23,725 Speaker 2: pockets of her shorts were torn, exposing her red underwear. 493 00:28:24,645 --> 00:28:26,725 Speaker 2: She had been strangled with a pair of panny hose. 494 00:28:27,885 --> 00:28:31,005 Speaker 2: Larry Swaringen was twenty seven years old, he was married, 495 00:28:31,045 --> 00:28:34,005 Speaker 2: and he had a long criminal history with allegations of 496 00:28:34,045 --> 00:28:38,485 Speaker 2: sexual assault against multiple women. It turned out that there 497 00:28:38,525 --> 00:28:41,325 Speaker 2: were a lot of issues with the case against Larry Swaringen. 498 00:28:42,565 --> 00:28:46,045 Speaker 2: There were serious problems with the physical evidence, though actually 499 00:28:46,125 --> 00:28:49,765 Speaker 2: the biggest issue in the case against Larry Swaringen was 500 00:28:49,805 --> 00:28:53,685 Speaker 2: the timing. The Houston medical examiner who conducted the autopsy 501 00:28:54,245 --> 00:28:58,525 Speaker 2: testified during Larry Swaringen's trial that Melissa Trotter had been 502 00:28:58,565 --> 00:29:01,405 Speaker 2: dead the entire time that she was missing, so for 503 00:29:01,445 --> 00:29:05,045 Speaker 2: almost three weeks, but in two thousand and seven, the 504 00:29:05,085 --> 00:29:09,525 Speaker 2: medical examiner recanted her testimony. Now she said that Melissa 505 00:29:09,525 --> 00:29:12,125 Speaker 2: Trotter had been dead for no longer than two weeks 506 00:29:12,125 --> 00:29:15,125 Speaker 2: when her body was found. The problem with that is 507 00:29:15,165 --> 00:29:18,085 Speaker 2: that three days after Melissa went missing, the police picked 508 00:29:18,165 --> 00:29:20,005 Speaker 2: him up on an outstanding warrant, and he was in 509 00:29:20,085 --> 00:29:23,525 Speaker 2: jail when her body was found. I absolutely believe that 510 00:29:23,685 --> 00:29:27,365 Speaker 2: if Larry Swaringen were charged without murder today, he would 511 00:29:27,365 --> 00:29:30,485 Speaker 2: not be convicted. Not only do I not believe he's 512 00:29:30,525 --> 00:29:33,645 Speaker 2: a viable suspect in Melissa WIT's case. I think it's 513 00:29:33,765 --> 00:29:38,245 Speaker 2: highly unlikely that he killed Melissa Trotter. But even with 514 00:29:38,325 --> 00:29:41,925 Speaker 2: all the questionable evidence, Larry's Swaringen was convicted and he 515 00:29:41,965 --> 00:29:45,365 Speaker 2: was sentenced to death. After the Innocent Project took up 516 00:29:45,365 --> 00:29:49,365 Speaker 2: the case, his execution was stayed five times, but finally 517 00:29:49,725 --> 00:29:53,245 Speaker 2: Larry Sweringen was executed by lethal injection in two thousand. 518 00:29:54,405 --> 00:29:58,725 Speaker 2: His last words and a final statement were quote today, 519 00:29:58,885 --> 00:30:04,205 Speaker 2: the State of Texas murdered an innocent man. While police 520 00:30:04,205 --> 00:30:08,125 Speaker 2: were investigating Melissa wis It's case, another possible person of 521 00:30:08,165 --> 00:30:12,525 Speaker 2: interest came up. His name is Travis Dale Crouch. He 522 00:30:12,605 --> 00:30:16,565 Speaker 2: was also known by his nicknames Tramp or Skull. Travis 523 00:30:16,605 --> 00:30:19,565 Speaker 2: is from ozark and did time for the rape of 524 00:30:19,605 --> 00:30:22,325 Speaker 2: a twenty year old woman in Colorado in nineteen ninety seven. 525 00:30:23,245 --> 00:30:26,005 Speaker 2: Travis was panhandling in a mall parking lot. He started 526 00:30:26,085 --> 00:30:29,125 Speaker 2: chatting with his victim, then he attacked her in her 527 00:30:29,165 --> 00:30:32,245 Speaker 2: own car. He forced her to drive to this remote 528 00:30:32,285 --> 00:30:35,765 Speaker 2: location on a mountaintop, and over a period of hours, 529 00:30:35,765 --> 00:30:39,645 Speaker 2: he subjected her to a brutal sexual assault. Somehow, his 530 00:30:39,765 --> 00:30:43,085 Speaker 2: victim escaped. She was dazed and she ran out of 531 00:30:43,125 --> 00:30:48,645 Speaker 2: there completely naked and got help. Law enforcements saw similarities 532 00:30:48,685 --> 00:30:53,045 Speaker 2: between this case and Melissa Whits case, and they figured 533 00:30:53,045 --> 00:30:58,485 Speaker 2: out that around the time Melissa disappeared, Travis was in Arkansas. Actually, 534 00:30:58,565 --> 00:31:00,845 Speaker 2: Travis was a carpenter at a church camp a few 535 00:31:00,845 --> 00:31:03,165 Speaker 2: miles from the remote area where Melissa's body was found. 536 00:31:03,925 --> 00:31:06,885 Speaker 2: He was seen driving as Chevrolet Caprice near Bowling World 537 00:31:07,125 --> 00:31:11,645 Speaker 2: around the time when Melissa disappeared. Travis was also a 538 00:31:11,685 --> 00:31:14,005 Speaker 2: deer hunter, so he would have known the forest well. 539 00:31:14,885 --> 00:31:18,005 Speaker 2: Police safe fibers in his car were tested at one point, 540 00:31:18,685 --> 00:31:21,085 Speaker 2: but then nothing more was ever reported about the results 541 00:31:21,125 --> 00:31:24,725 Speaker 2: of those tests. Travis was sentenced to sixty four years 542 00:31:24,725 --> 00:31:26,565 Speaker 2: in prison for the rape of the twenty year old 543 00:31:26,645 --> 00:31:30,605 Speaker 2: victim in Colorado. He becomes eligible for parole next year, 544 00:31:30,925 --> 00:31:35,925 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. According to multiple reports, Travis has also 545 00:31:36,085 --> 00:31:40,445 Speaker 2: always denied any involvement in Melissa Whits murder, which in 546 00:31:40,445 --> 00:31:43,605 Speaker 2: a way brings us back to where we started. We 547 00:31:43,645 --> 00:31:48,445 Speaker 2: can eliminate some possibilities. None of the rumors about drugs 548 00:31:48,565 --> 00:31:52,565 Speaker 2: or sex trafficking rings made sense. Melissa never did drugs. 549 00:31:52,845 --> 00:31:56,805 Speaker 2: No drugs were found in her system. Police later publicly 550 00:31:56,885 --> 00:32:00,325 Speaker 2: said that the whole black male suspect and Fort Chaffee 551 00:32:00,365 --> 00:32:03,365 Speaker 2: connection were just red herrings and had been a complete 552 00:32:03,445 --> 00:32:09,005 Speaker 2: waste of time. Also, sex traffickers don't drive into full 553 00:32:09,085 --> 00:32:13,325 Speaker 2: parking lots and kidnap random women. It's sad to say this, 554 00:32:13,565 --> 00:32:17,765 Speaker 2: but sex traffickers do not have a problem finding young victims. 555 00:32:18,605 --> 00:32:22,005 Speaker 2: They groom at risk young teens and runaways, but they 556 00:32:22,005 --> 00:32:26,365 Speaker 2: don't randomly kidnap people from parking lots. Over the years, 557 00:32:26,405 --> 00:32:30,525 Speaker 2: a number of armchair detectives on podcasts have mentioned possible suspects. 558 00:32:31,325 --> 00:32:33,925 Speaker 2: The podcast True Crime Garage talked to Lodonna a few 559 00:32:33,965 --> 00:32:37,165 Speaker 2: years back about a guy named Gary Hilton, aka the 560 00:32:37,245 --> 00:32:41,565 Speaker 2: National Forest serial Killer. But in my opinion, this doesn't 561 00:32:41,605 --> 00:32:44,045 Speaker 2: make a ton of sense. On the surface. There are 562 00:32:44,085 --> 00:32:47,565 Speaker 2: a few similarities, but Gary Hilton's mo was abducting women 563 00:32:47,605 --> 00:32:50,925 Speaker 2: from remote areas. For example, one victim's car was found 564 00:32:50,925 --> 00:32:54,245 Speaker 2: abandoned in a field, another was on a hike. Over 565 00:32:54,285 --> 00:32:58,445 Speaker 2: the years, LaDonna has devoted countless hours to researching what 566 00:32:58,485 --> 00:33:01,685 Speaker 2: could have happened to Melissa Whitt. A few years back, 567 00:33:02,205 --> 00:33:04,925 Speaker 2: she was contacted by women who said years ago, when 568 00:33:04,925 --> 00:33:08,365 Speaker 2: the woman was twenty three and living in the Pacific Northwest, 569 00:33:08,885 --> 00:33:11,725 Speaker 2: this woman had been in a fetish video and this 570 00:33:11,885 --> 00:33:14,365 Speaker 2: was a very creepy story. The woman said that this 571 00:33:14,525 --> 00:33:18,725 Speaker 2: creepy director wanted a video where the young woman was 572 00:33:18,765 --> 00:33:21,885 Speaker 2: wearing a Mickey mousewatch. He wanted her to pretend that 573 00:33:21,965 --> 00:33:24,885 Speaker 2: she was dead and in a morgue. As a result 574 00:33:24,885 --> 00:33:27,965 Speaker 2: of this, Ledonna did a deep dive into some very 575 00:33:28,005 --> 00:33:31,485 Speaker 2: disturbing internet forums. I've been on a lot of those 576 00:33:31,485 --> 00:33:34,965 Speaker 2: same forums and there are some definite violent creeps in there, 577 00:33:35,645 --> 00:33:38,405 Speaker 2: But I don't think that this direction will ultimately lead 578 00:33:38,445 --> 00:33:41,325 Speaker 2: to Melissa's killer. There are a lot of people who 579 00:33:41,405 --> 00:33:45,805 Speaker 2: enjoyed dark fetishes who never cross the line. I also 580 00:33:45,925 --> 00:33:48,845 Speaker 2: don't think that Melissa Wits killer was a random stranger. 581 00:33:49,525 --> 00:33:51,605 Speaker 2: First of all, I find it hard to believe that 582 00:33:51,685 --> 00:33:55,005 Speaker 2: a random stranger would trawl through a packed parking lot 583 00:33:55,045 --> 00:33:58,205 Speaker 2: to find a victim. This wasn't two am in a 584 00:33:58,365 --> 00:34:01,125 Speaker 2: car garage. This was prime dinner time in the middle 585 00:34:01,165 --> 00:34:04,805 Speaker 2: of the Ladies bowling League. Over the years, some people 586 00:34:04,845 --> 00:34:08,285 Speaker 2: have suggested the Mickey Mouse watch might be some kind 587 00:34:08,285 --> 00:34:12,005 Speaker 2: of important connection, like maybe Melissa Trotter and Melissa Witt 588 00:34:12,045 --> 00:34:15,885 Speaker 2: were both targeted because they wore Mickey Mouse watches. Ay 589 00:34:15,965 --> 00:34:18,005 Speaker 2: magazine did a story about the case. They called it 590 00:34:18,045 --> 00:34:21,525 Speaker 2: the Mickey Mouse Killer. I get why people might focus 591 00:34:21,525 --> 00:34:24,245 Speaker 2: on the watch, because both Melissa Trotter and Melissa Wit 592 00:34:25,325 --> 00:34:27,445 Speaker 2: wore that style of watch and they were missing when 593 00:34:27,485 --> 00:34:30,445 Speaker 2: the bodies were found. But in my opinion, this is 594 00:34:30,485 --> 00:34:33,845 Speaker 2: also just a coincidence because that style of watch was 595 00:34:33,925 --> 00:34:36,405 Speaker 2: everywhere in the eighties and nineties, lots of young women 596 00:34:36,445 --> 00:34:40,005 Speaker 2: wore them. I just don't believe that there was a 597 00:34:40,045 --> 00:34:44,125 Speaker 2: serial killer targeting young women because they wore Mickey Mouse watches. Now, 598 00:34:44,165 --> 00:34:46,965 Speaker 2: I could, of course be totally wrong, and if other 599 00:34:47,005 --> 00:34:50,045 Speaker 2: evidence points in that direction, I will change my mind, 600 00:34:50,245 --> 00:34:53,445 Speaker 2: But I think that the killer taking Melissa WIT's clothes 601 00:34:54,005 --> 00:34:56,725 Speaker 2: was more of an attempt to not leave blood or 602 00:34:56,765 --> 00:35:00,925 Speaker 2: saliva or anything else that could connect them to Melissa. J. 603 00:35:01,085 --> 00:35:04,765 Speaker 2: C Ryder seems to agree. Melissa's killer knew her, they 604 00:35:04,845 --> 00:35:06,805 Speaker 2: knew her re and they were waiting for her in 605 00:35:06,845 --> 00:35:10,125 Speaker 2: the parking lot that night. But when I talked to Ldonna, 606 00:35:10,645 --> 00:35:13,125 Speaker 2: she was focused on a suspect much closer to home, 607 00:35:14,165 --> 00:35:18,365 Speaker 2: someone she says, who knew Melissa well, someone who contacted 608 00:35:18,365 --> 00:35:19,685 Speaker 2: her early in the investigation. 609 00:35:20,805 --> 00:35:24,405 Speaker 1: So this this particular guy, I guess he was the 610 00:35:24,405 --> 00:35:26,885 Speaker 1: one that's called me kind of creepy, called me for many, 611 00:35:26,885 --> 00:35:29,645 Speaker 1: many years, and it started out with him calling me 612 00:35:30,085 --> 00:35:33,565 Speaker 1: weeping over Melissa, you know, wanting me to go with 613 00:35:33,645 --> 00:35:34,685 Speaker 1: him to the. 614 00:35:34,565 --> 00:35:36,165 Speaker 4: Graveside, those kind of things. 615 00:35:36,205 --> 00:35:38,445 Speaker 1: But it was definitely, yes, he's someone that knew Melissa, 616 00:35:39,005 --> 00:35:40,925 Speaker 1: and his name is definitely in that diary. 617 00:35:41,405 --> 00:35:43,845 Speaker 4: Because of that, and because he had been. 618 00:35:43,765 --> 00:35:45,765 Speaker 1: Reaching out to me, and there was no possible way 619 00:35:45,765 --> 00:35:48,045 Speaker 1: for me to know that name. You know, it wasn't 620 00:35:48,085 --> 00:35:49,925 Speaker 1: something that I could have gone to law enforcement and 621 00:35:50,005 --> 00:35:50,685 Speaker 1: just make up. 622 00:35:51,525 --> 00:35:53,645 Speaker 4: This was, you know, information that really just kind of 623 00:35:53,645 --> 00:35:56,645 Speaker 4: fell into my lap. They realized how critical. 624 00:35:56,205 --> 00:35:59,245 Speaker 1: This piece could be because I could literally gather some 625 00:35:59,285 --> 00:36:01,645 Speaker 1: information for them and give it to them as intel 626 00:36:02,085 --> 00:36:04,765 Speaker 1: that they were never going to have with him because 627 00:36:04,765 --> 00:36:05,485 Speaker 1: he had lawyers. 628 00:36:06,325 --> 00:36:09,045 Speaker 4: Even though I wasn't acting as an agent. 629 00:36:08,765 --> 00:36:11,485 Speaker 1: Of the police or even as a private investigator at 630 00:36:11,485 --> 00:36:15,245 Speaker 1: that point, as a filmmaker and doing an investigative journalism 631 00:36:15,285 --> 00:36:16,605 Speaker 1: piece part of it, I was. 632 00:36:16,605 --> 00:36:19,005 Speaker 4: Still able to go ahead and talk with him. And 633 00:36:20,005 --> 00:36:22,525 Speaker 4: reading that case file helped me because I at least knew. 634 00:36:22,405 --> 00:36:24,285 Speaker 1: Some of the statements he made, and then I would 635 00:36:24,365 --> 00:36:27,445 Speaker 1: know immediately if he was being honest with me, and 636 00:36:27,485 --> 00:36:30,125 Speaker 1: for the most part, he always lied, which was really 637 00:36:30,165 --> 00:36:32,685 Speaker 1: really interesting and intriguing to the case. 638 00:36:33,565 --> 00:36:37,445 Speaker 2: I believe something scared Melissa. She got into an argument 639 00:36:37,445 --> 00:36:40,245 Speaker 2: with her abductor, either because she said no to some 640 00:36:40,325 --> 00:36:44,285 Speaker 2: kind of sexual advance, or maybe because they were having 641 00:36:44,325 --> 00:36:46,645 Speaker 2: some kind of a fight, maybe even a lover's quarrel. 642 00:36:47,285 --> 00:36:51,445 Speaker 2: Maybe Melissa Witt was seeing someone secretly. It could be 643 00:36:51,525 --> 00:36:55,485 Speaker 2: someone who might have had a girlfriend or even a wife. Then, 644 00:36:55,605 --> 00:36:58,805 Speaker 2: when Melissa Witt raised her voice and they started getting 645 00:36:58,845 --> 00:37:00,765 Speaker 2: into a more heated argument, the one the ten year 646 00:37:00,805 --> 00:37:04,205 Speaker 2: old boy witnessed her killer wanted her to be quiet, 647 00:37:04,485 --> 00:37:07,405 Speaker 2: so they hit her, then panicked and threw her into 648 00:37:07,445 --> 00:37:11,285 Speaker 2: their vehicle. Maybe her killer took her into the Ozark 649 00:37:11,405 --> 00:37:17,165 Speaker 2: National Forest, sexually assaulted her and strangled her. Or maybe 650 00:37:17,165 --> 00:37:20,405 Speaker 2: they hit her, panicked, threw her into the car, then 651 00:37:20,485 --> 00:37:23,405 Speaker 2: went to dump her in the forest. Maybe they thought 652 00:37:23,485 --> 00:37:25,685 Speaker 2: she was dead, but when they realized she was still alive, 653 00:37:26,325 --> 00:37:31,205 Speaker 2: they knew they had to finish the job. In either scenario, 654 00:37:31,765 --> 00:37:34,685 Speaker 2: I think Melissa Whitten knew her killer, that it was 655 00:37:34,725 --> 00:37:37,725 Speaker 2: someone local or maybe more than one person. 656 00:37:39,005 --> 00:37:40,045 Speaker 4: What's the missing piece? 657 00:37:40,085 --> 00:37:41,765 Speaker 2: What can people do to help at this point? 658 00:37:42,845 --> 00:37:46,405 Speaker 4: I think that there's a couple of things. 659 00:37:46,405 --> 00:37:49,725 Speaker 1: One is that this guy has had lots of problems 660 00:37:49,725 --> 00:37:51,765 Speaker 1: with drugs and alcohol over the years, and I do 661 00:37:51,885 --> 00:37:52,365 Speaker 1: believe that. 662 00:37:52,325 --> 00:37:54,245 Speaker 4: He's talked to different people in his life, and. 663 00:37:54,205 --> 00:37:56,965 Speaker 1: I think that those people are probably very fearful of 664 00:37:57,045 --> 00:37:57,845 Speaker 1: coming forward. 665 00:37:58,565 --> 00:38:00,925 Speaker 4: And you know, we need those people to come forward 666 00:38:01,005 --> 00:38:03,325 Speaker 4: because I know they exist. We also need any of 667 00:38:03,365 --> 00:38:06,925 Speaker 4: the women that were connected to him to come forward. 668 00:38:07,445 --> 00:38:12,125 Speaker 1: I do believe that this alibi can be negated he has. 669 00:38:12,285 --> 00:38:14,245 Speaker 1: I believe that there's a lot more there and a 670 00:38:14,245 --> 00:38:18,085 Speaker 1: lot more violence that got swept under the rug. That 671 00:38:18,125 --> 00:38:20,965 Speaker 1: he was never prosecuted for and we need those people. 672 00:38:20,645 --> 00:38:21,365 Speaker 4: To come forward. 673 00:38:23,645 --> 00:38:27,245 Speaker 2: Marianne Whip passed away in twenty eleven without ever knowing 674 00:38:27,325 --> 00:38:30,325 Speaker 2: who killed her daughter. She was seventy five years old, 675 00:38:30,525 --> 00:38:33,565 Speaker 2: and she was buried right next to Melissa. J c 676 00:38:33,765 --> 00:38:37,085 Speaker 2: Ryder has said the case has followed him over the years. 677 00:38:37,685 --> 00:38:40,685 Speaker 2: He said he's never forgotten about it. That's why, even 678 00:38:40,725 --> 00:38:44,685 Speaker 2: after retirement, he continues to work for justice and closure 679 00:38:44,725 --> 00:38:48,725 Speaker 2: for Melissa and her family. Over the years, Leadona Humphrey 680 00:38:48,805 --> 00:38:52,005 Speaker 2: has teamed up with J. C Ryder. She's continued to 681 00:38:52,005 --> 00:38:55,005 Speaker 2: push forward on this case. She's seen the case file, 682 00:38:55,165 --> 00:38:59,005 Speaker 2: and she's seen Melissa's diary. In her book, she writes that, 683 00:38:59,125 --> 00:39:01,805 Speaker 2: in her opinion, there are some other people who need 684 00:39:01,845 --> 00:39:02,565 Speaker 2: to be investigated. 685 00:39:02,605 --> 00:39:04,765 Speaker 4: Further, he's given an alibi. 686 00:39:05,085 --> 00:39:08,445 Speaker 1: He has had not had anybody come forward to help 687 00:39:08,525 --> 00:39:12,165 Speaker 1: to negate that alibi, and that's the. 688 00:39:12,165 --> 00:39:13,965 Speaker 4: Piece that we really need to crash. 689 00:39:14,245 --> 00:39:17,445 Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people that are around 690 00:39:17,525 --> 00:39:19,365 Speaker 1: this particular individual are. 691 00:39:19,325 --> 00:39:20,125 Speaker 4: Very afraid of him. 692 00:39:20,165 --> 00:39:24,965 Speaker 1: He's a very volatile, very violent person, and so it 693 00:39:25,085 --> 00:39:28,685 Speaker 1: stands to reason that you know, people are afraid or 694 00:39:28,765 --> 00:39:32,485 Speaker 1: that now they're afraid that they've kept information to themselves 695 00:39:32,525 --> 00:39:34,805 Speaker 1: for so long that they're afraid to come forward. 696 00:39:34,885 --> 00:39:38,845 Speaker 4: Now they're not hurting anybody except Melissa. In my opinion, 697 00:39:39,125 --> 00:39:41,525 Speaker 4: the quest to get justice for Melissa went. I mean, 698 00:39:41,605 --> 00:39:43,925 Speaker 4: they would really just be a hero. It would help 699 00:39:44,005 --> 00:39:47,685 Speaker 4: take somebody off the street too. I believe very well 700 00:39:47,725 --> 00:39:48,525 Speaker 4: may do it again. 701 00:39:48,965 --> 00:39:53,885 Speaker 1: He is a very dangerous, violent man, and it all 702 00:39:53,925 --> 00:39:54,725 Speaker 1: comes down to that. 703 00:40:03,125 --> 00:40:07,045 Speaker 2: Ledonna co founded a nonprofit organist called All the Lost Girls. 704 00:40:07,725 --> 00:40:11,485 Speaker 2: It's dedicated to finding justice for female strangulation cold cases 705 00:40:11,525 --> 00:40:15,325 Speaker 2: in the United States, and police say they are still 706 00:40:15,365 --> 00:40:19,285 Speaker 2: working on Melissa Wits case. Captain Daniel Grubbs of the 707 00:40:19,325 --> 00:40:23,205 Speaker 2: Fort Smith Police Department talked to News five and in 708 00:40:23,245 --> 00:40:26,845 Speaker 2: that interview, Captain Grubbs said that they do have items 709 00:40:26,845 --> 00:40:30,445 Speaker 2: that they can test for DNA. I would love to 710 00:40:30,445 --> 00:40:33,565 Speaker 2: get more details about exactly what is in the case file. 711 00:40:34,445 --> 00:40:38,165 Speaker 2: I wonder if they could test familial DNA, or maybe 712 00:40:38,485 --> 00:40:40,885 Speaker 2: someone will be scrounging through in a state sale or 713 00:40:40,885 --> 00:40:44,405 Speaker 2: in a relative's old basement, maybe they'll find that Mickey 714 00:40:44,405 --> 00:40:47,445 Speaker 2: Mouse watch with a serial number that could match it 715 00:40:47,485 --> 00:40:50,725 Speaker 2: to Melissa Wit. In the past, when I've seen news 716 00:40:50,725 --> 00:40:54,645 Speaker 2: reports of updates in Melissa Wits case. I've seen a 717 00:40:54,725 --> 00:40:58,525 Speaker 2: lot of descriptions of the police looking at known criminals 718 00:40:58,525 --> 00:41:03,365 Speaker 2: in the area, including local sex offenders. But after everything 719 00:41:03,565 --> 00:41:06,205 Speaker 2: that I've looked through on this case, I'm convinced that 720 00:41:06,245 --> 00:41:09,685 Speaker 2: Melissa Witt knew her killer and that the answers to 721 00:41:09,725 --> 00:41:13,325 Speaker 2: who killed Melissa Witt will only be found by taking 722 00:41:13,405 --> 00:41:17,765 Speaker 2: a closer look into her life. Do you think that 723 00:41:17,845 --> 00:41:20,005 Speaker 2: this person is still in the area. 724 00:41:22,045 --> 00:41:25,085 Speaker 4: It's still an archisias, So if. 725 00:41:25,005 --> 00:41:28,245 Speaker 2: You were friends with Melissa Witt, please get in touch. 726 00:41:29,245 --> 00:41:38,725 Speaker 2: I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen 727 00:41:38,765 --> 00:41:41,885 Speaker 2: Gone is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. 728 00:41:42,285 --> 00:41:45,525 Speaker 2: It's written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced 729 00:41:45,525 --> 00:41:49,805 Speaker 2: by Gabby Watts. Music is by Ben so Lee. Executive 730 00:41:49,805 --> 00:41:54,485 Speaker 2: producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Elsie Crowley. If 731 00:41:54,525 --> 00:41:56,365 Speaker 2: you have a case you'd like me and my team 732 00:41:56,405 --> 00:41:59,085 Speaker 2: to look into, you can reach out to us at 733 00:41:59,125 --> 00:42:03,045 Speaker 2: six seven eight seven four four six one four five. 734 00:42:03,725 --> 00:42:07,645 Speaker 2: That's six seven eight four four six one four five. 735 00:42:14,565 --> 00:42:15,525 Speaker 4: School of Humans 736 00:42:17,205 --> 00:42:17,245 Speaker 1: M