1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: Joe Biden ran for president three times and never won, 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: never won anything outside the state of Delaware now once 3 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: until he ran up against the guy who the American 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: people knew in their heart was full of it. They 5 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: had watched the chaos, they had watched it disorder, they 6 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: had watched the disrespect, they had watched the narcissism and 7 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: the lion for four years, and they went, you know what, enough, 8 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: I thought that something that was so apparent to me 9 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: would be apparent to everybody. Let me guarantee you something. 10 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 1: I ain't making that mistake this time. 11 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 2: When the twenty twenty four Republican presidential candidates take the 12 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 2: stage tonight in Milwaukee for their first debate, one voice 13 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 2: will no doubt be louder than all the others. No, 14 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 2: not Donald Trump, he says, he'll be a no show. 15 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 2: I'm talking about Chris Christi, the former New Jersey governor 16 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 2: and very former Trump supporter, has now made it his 17 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,839 Speaker 2: mission in life to do what none of his rivals 18 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 2: has dared to do, relentlessly attack Trump with the kind 19 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 2: of language that Trump uses to attack everyone else. 20 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: I knew that so much of what he said was 21 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: complete boloney. I'm going to build the greatest, most wonderful 22 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: wall across the entire Mexico border, and Mexico is going 23 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 1: to pay for it. Complete ball and if you listen 24 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: to him, he'll tell you I totally succeeded. And now Biden. 25 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: Biden is the reason that you know this is not happening. Well, 26 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 1: Biden's made it worse. 27 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 2: But is ridiculing the most popular man in the party 28 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 2: the way into Republican voters' hearts. Bloomberg BusinessWeek National correspondent 29 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 2: Joshua Green went to find out. 30 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 3: The big question when you talk to political folks is 31 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 3: does Chris Christy really think that he's going to be 32 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 3: the Republican nominee? Or is he really out there seeking 33 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 3: vengeance against Donald Trump with denying Trump the nomination by 34 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 3: attack him and blowing him to smithereens be enough of 35 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 3: a victory for Chris Christy. 36 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 2: I'm west Kasova today on the big take. What does 37 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 2: Chris Christie really want? Hey, josh how's it going? 38 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:25,399 Speaker 4: Well? 39 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 2: I'm all right, you're the one out on the campaign trail. 40 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:29,399 Speaker 2: What are you seeing out there? 41 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 3: A lot of candidates trying their hardest to avoid talking 42 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 3: about Donald Trump? Who's the runaway front runner except one candidate, 43 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 3: and that's the guy that I've been trailing, and that 44 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 3: is Chris Christi, the former New Jersey governor. 45 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, in a field of huge personalities, Chris 46 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 2: Christi may be close to Donald Trump when it comes 47 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 2: to getting noticed for the stuff he says. 48 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 4: He really is. 49 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 3: I mean, as politicians go, Christy was kind of Trump 50 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,639 Speaker 3: before Trump was Trump. You know, Who's the big, brash, 51 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 3: Northeastern guy from Jersey who liked to into fights and 52 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 3: have big confrontations and had that ability to kind of 53 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 3: entertain from the stage, which is what first made Christy 54 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 3: nationally famous. The problem is he and everybody else saw 55 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 3: in twenty sixteen was that Donald Trump came along. I 56 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 3: did Christie's act better than Christy did. And so here 57 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 3: he is seven eight years later, trying to get back 58 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 3: in the game, trying to run for president, and this 59 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 3: time he's going after Trump directly, and he's pretty much 60 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 3: the only guy who's really going after Trump hard. And 61 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 3: to me, that makes him the most interesting character to 62 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 3: watch during the debate. 63 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 2: In a way, it's kind of poetic, maybe even a 64 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 2: little Shakespearean, that Christy is now going after Trump, because 65 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 2: you write that Christy may have been the reason why 66 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 2: Trump had the nomination in twenty sixteen. 67 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 3: Back then, there's this huge field of candidates running, and 68 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 3: Trump was very much in the lead as he is now. 69 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 3: The difference back then was that nobody really believed that 70 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 3: Trump was going to be the Republican nominee. Everybody kept 71 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 3: thinking he would fail, and they all attacked each other, 72 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 3: but Trump just kept getting stronger. And when it got 73 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 3: to about mid February and Christy realized like he wasn't 74 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 3: going to be the guy, he dropped out of the race, 75 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 3: and a couple weeks later became the first Republican presidential 76 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 3: candidate to endorse Donald Trump, which was huge news at 77 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 3: the time because up until then, the biggest endorsement that 78 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 3: Trump had managed to wrangle with Sarah Palin, who really 79 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 3: didn't count for anything. And the fact that Christy got 80 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,799 Speaker 3: out and endorsed Trump, I think essentially cinched the nomination 81 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 3: for Trump. It was the first big establishment figure to 82 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 3: come out and get behind Donald Trump, vouched for him 83 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 3: and to say this is going to be the next 84 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 3: Republican nominee, and that's exactly what Trump became. 85 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 2: And why did Christy endorse Trump because he wasn't a 86 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 2: great fan of his. 87 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 3: He did it because he wanted to be Trump's vice president. 88 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 3: And jumping out early becoming the first important endorsement is 89 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 3: a big chit for a politician to have, and that 90 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 3: got Christy onto Trump's VP shortlist. 91 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 2: And why would Christy think that Trump would have picked him? 92 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 4: Well, a couple of reasons. 93 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 3: I mean one, Trump didn't have any kind of a 94 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,799 Speaker 3: political background, and so he was gonna need a serious 95 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 3: VP that would reassure voters that the country wasn't going 96 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 3: to go bananas. Christy was a guy who was, as 97 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 3: we said, like Trump in a lot of ways. He 98 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 3: was popular, he was moderate, and he really envisioned a 99 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 3: sort of a Dick Cheney role for himself. Like Donald 100 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 3: Trump is obviously not going to spend his days working 101 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 3: the levers of government and puzzling over legislative texts, so 102 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:27,359 Speaker 3: he would leave all the real work and all the 103 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 3: real power to Chris Christy. That was Christie's view, and 104 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 3: so he thought, well, if I can't be president, at 105 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 3: least I can be the vice president and be the 106 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 3: guy who's kind of secretly running the country behind the scenes. 107 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 4: That was the idea going in. 108 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 3: The other big appeal to Chris Christie had to Donald 109 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 3: Trump was that he is a ferocious debater. And there 110 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 3: was a famous debate in February right before Christy dropped 111 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 3: out where he decided to go after Marco Rubio. 112 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: Doing is he knows exactly memorized five seconds he speaks. 113 00:05:55,440 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 3: The Christy absolutely destroyed Rubio in a way that in 114 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 3: a sense, hobbled Rubio's political career permanently. People still talk 115 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 3: about that debate, and Christy told me that Trump loved it. 116 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 3: That Trump would say, Chris here is a killer. He's 117 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 3: a killer, and Trump loves killers, and so that also, 118 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 3: I think raised Christy's level of esteem in Donald Trump's eyes, 119 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 3: at least briefly, and Christy became in a lot of 120 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 3: ways the most important person inside the Trump campaign at 121 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 3: that very early stage. 122 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 2: But then, of course Trump passed over Christy for vice president. 123 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,239 Speaker 3: He did, and Christy recounts in his memoir Trump calling 124 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 3: him up the day before the announcement saying, you. 125 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 4: Know, are you ready? Are you ready to BVP? 126 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 3: I think Christy thought that he had the job in 127 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 3: the bag, and then of course at the last minute, 128 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 3: Trump comes out and picks Mike Pence instead, which was 129 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 3: a real blow to Christy, but he was still put 130 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 3: in charge of the presidential transition. Christy was, which was 131 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 3: its own form of power, and everybody in the political 132 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 3: press court and everybody in Washington thought, all right, well, 133 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 3: this is sort of a holding job for some other 134 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 3: big job in the him. Maybe he'll be the attorney general, 135 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 3: or maybe he'll be some important cabinet member. Instead, Trump 136 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 3: did what he does to a lot of important Republicans 137 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 3: come to work for him, firing him. 138 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 2: And why did he fire him? Why didn't he give 139 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 2: him a big job in the administration. 140 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 3: You know, it's never quite clear with Trump, and he 141 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 3: sort of falls in love and out of love with 142 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 3: people very quickly. But it was clear that the very 143 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 3: tight knit Trump campaign, which at the time was run 144 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 3: by Steve Bannon, viewed Christy as an indoloper and a 145 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 3: phony and not a real Maga guy and took an 146 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 3: intense disliking to him. I talked to Bannon for this profile, 147 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 3: and he told me that they all viewed Christy as 148 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 3: Piggy from Lord of the Flies, the kid that everybody 149 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 3: turns on and dislikes. 150 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 2: So now all these years later, Chris Christy is looking 151 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 2: to balance the scales. 152 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 4: Yeah. 153 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 3: I mean the big question when you talk to political 154 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 3: folks is, you know, does Chris Christie really think that 155 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 3: he's going to be the Republican nominee or is he 156 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 3: really out there seeking vengeance against Donald Trump? Would denying 157 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 3: Trump the nominated by attacking him and blowing him to 158 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 3: smithereens be enough of a victory for Chris Christy. 159 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 2: And it seems like Republicans are not really buying what 160 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 2: he's trying to sell. 161 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 3: Well, you know, Christy is such a fascinating candidates. On 162 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 3: the one hand, polls show that there's absolutely a portion 163 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 3: of the Republican Party that does not want Donald Trump 164 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 3: to be their nominee. The problem for Christy is they 165 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 3: don't want Christy to be. 166 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 4: The nominee either. 167 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 3: So he's not popular with Trump fans, which doesn't come 168 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 3: as a surprise because he spends most of his time 169 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 3: attacking Trump. But he's also not popular with never Trumpers, 170 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 3: and so that's been the real problem weighing Christy down 171 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 3: in the polls. 172 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 2: Josh, you went out on the camping trail and watched 173 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 2: Christy at work, What is he actually saying? When he's 174 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 2: trying to convince voters to ditch Trump. 175 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 3: When Christy goes to these events in these town halls, 176 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 3: the message he's sending like a clarion, is we cannot 177 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 3: nominate Donald Trump again. We have to stop Donald Trump 178 00:08:58,080 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 3: before it's too late. 179 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: A completely self centered, self consumed, angry old man. And 180 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: if he were ever to become president again, I'll take 181 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,839 Speaker 1: him at his word. He said, I am your retribution. Well, 182 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 1: he's not our retribution. He will be his own retribution. 183 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 3: That's a message that does appeal to a lot of 184 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 3: Republican voters, as well as Democrats and independents. I mean 185 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 3: I say in the piece that after attending a bunch 186 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 3: of these events, you know, they come to feel like 187 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 3: group therapy sessions. There'll be Republicans driving from hours and 188 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 3: hours away, sometimes from other states to be at a 189 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,479 Speaker 3: Christie event just to be among people who are Republicans 190 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 3: and who are put off by Donald Trump, who wants 191 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,719 Speaker 3: somebody else there. And so in that sense, Christy is 192 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,839 Speaker 3: almost like a counselor staging an intervention with people, saying, 193 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 3: you know, you have to kick this Trump addiction Republicans 194 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 3: before it's too late, and before we cost ourselves the 195 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 3: White House in twenty twenty four. That's a message that 196 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 3: has a lot of power. The problem is it doesn't 197 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 3: have the power to attract a majority of Republican primary voters. 198 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 3: And in the end, and that's what Chris Christie is 199 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 3: going to have to do if he wants to become 200 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 3: the Republican nominee. 201 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,079 Speaker 2: So what exactly is his pitch against Trump? What are 202 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 2: his main complaints against the former president? 203 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:13,839 Speaker 3: When I was in South Carolina, for instance, you know, 204 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 3: Christy came out and just went right after Donald Trump. 205 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 3: He said he's selfish, he's a serially bankrupted con man, 206 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 3: and is fully aware that he. 207 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 4: Lost the twenty twenty election to Joe Biden. 208 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 3: And who doesn't care about you Fleeesa's donors to pay 209 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 3: his legal bills. 210 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: He's taking ten twenty five fifty dollars for middle class 211 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: Americans across this country who believe in him, and he's 212 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: putting it in his own pockets to pay his lawyers. 213 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: It is disgraceful. It's beneath the office he asks for, 214 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,719 Speaker 1: and that and that alone, should this qualify him from 215 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: being our nominee in twenty twenty four. 216 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 4: Christy's messages. 217 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 3: This guy is using you, and if we nominate him again, 218 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 3: Republicans are going to lose. They're going to lose the 219 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 3: White House, They're probably going to lose Congress. This is 220 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 3: the moment when Republicans have to muster all their courage 221 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 3: and finally kick Donald Trump to the Kurk. 222 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 4: That is what Christy is hoping will happen. 223 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 2: After the break. Why to Night's debate is so important 224 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:23,439 Speaker 2: for Christy. 225 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 1: My point view is, I'm not coming down here in 226 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: South Carolina as some never Trumper. I worked hard to 227 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: get him elected in twenty sixteen. I worked hard every 228 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: day to make him the best president he possibly could 229 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: be for all of us, and supported a lot of 230 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: his policies. But he failed us. 231 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 2: Josh. One of the funny things you write in your 232 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 2: story is that a lot of the people who show 233 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 2: up to see Chris Christy aren't Republicans at all. 234 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 4: Yeah. 235 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: You know. 236 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 3: I went down to a town hall that he had 237 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 3: in Columbia, South Carolina because I wanted to see Christy 238 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 3: among you know, hardcore conservative South Carolina. I figured there'd 239 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 3: be Heckler's there and a lot of Maga people, and instead, 240 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 3: the first guy in the door was a sixty eight 241 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 3: year old Democrat who driven two and a half hours 242 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 3: to see Christy because he said, you know, I'm here 243 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 3: because I don't like Trump's divisiveness, racism and misogyny, and 244 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 3: I want to see Chris Christy light. 245 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 4: Him up, you know. 246 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 3: So he was almost there as a form of entertainment 247 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 3: because it was exciting to him to see Christy tear 248 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 3: this guy, Donald Trump to shreds. In South Carolina, That's 249 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 3: okay because Republicans have an open primary, which means that 250 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 3: Democrats and independents can vote in it along with Republicans. 251 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 3: That's an important crowd for Christy and it's a reason 252 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 3: why Christy is spending so much time in New Hampshire, 253 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 3: which also allows Democrats and independence to vote in the 254 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 3: Republican primary. The problem is that most Republican primary states 255 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 3: are not like that. They're either closed primaries or caucuses, 256 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 3: which means you've got to win with Republican voters, and 257 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 3: that's a group that Christi performs very poorly with. 258 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 2: Why is Christy struggling to attract attention? Obviously from the 259 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 2: Corimaga voters, they're always going to be with Trump, but 260 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 2: he's a former governor, He's got political skills, he's a 261 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 2: well known figure. Why is he not registering. 262 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 3: Well, if you look at the polls and you talk 263 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 3: to political insiders, county chairman, those sorts of people, it's 264 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 3: because people just don't trust Chris Christy. I did an 265 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 3: interview for the piece with Seth Maskett, who's a political 266 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 3: scientist who conducts a bi monthly poll of Republican county chairs. 267 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 3: Those are kind of like the local big wigs who 268 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 3: really kind of know what's going on in their districts. 269 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 3: They're at the heart of local politics, and Christy as 270 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 3: the most despised GOP candidate in the entire field. When 271 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 3: you talk to Republican county chairs, he has the largest 272 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 3: group of county chairs against him. And I think a 273 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 3: big reason for that is that Christy, if you go 274 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 3: back a few years, he was running for president against 275 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 3: Donald Trump. Then he turned around and endorsed Donald Trump. 276 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 3: So he was Trump's first champ, and now he's back 277 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 3: to aggressively attacking Donald Trump again. He's had a lot 278 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 3: of different positions. I think people don't really know where 279 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,319 Speaker 3: he stands. But I think the never Trump group also 280 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 3: has suspicions about Chris Christie because they look at him 281 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 3: and say, well, yes, he's going after Donald Trump. 282 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 4: And I liked that. 283 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 3: But I remember just a few years ago when he 284 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 3: was trying to be Trump's vice president and saying that 285 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 3: Trump was exactly the kind of strong leader that America needed. 286 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 2: One of the things he could look back on is 287 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 2: his record as governor of New Jersey. But he had 288 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 2: some trouble there too, Yeah, he did. 289 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 3: I mean for most of his term. You know, he's 290 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 3: a very popular Republican governor in a largely democratic state. 291 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 3: But toward the end of his term, there was what 292 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 3: was called a Bridgegates scandal. There was a political scandal 293 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 3: where people in Christie's administration closed lanes on the George 294 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 3: Washington Bridge between New York and New Jersey in order to. 295 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 4: Punish a political rival. 296 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 3: Christy has always claimed that he wasn't aware of it, 297 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 3: but I think it sullied his political reputation going into 298 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 3: the twenty fifteen to twenty sixteen Republican primaries. And then 299 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 3: you couple that with the fact that Donald Trump came along, 300 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 3: who is the shinier, more exciting object And Christy never 301 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 3: really took off, I think in the way that he'd 302 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 3: hoped to. 303 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 2: Tonight, of course, is the first Republican debate, And you're 304 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 2: right that Christy really sees these debates as the most 305 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 2: important for him, for him not only to get his 306 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 2: message out, but to weaken Trump in a way that 307 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 2: maybe people would start to see him as not inevitable. 308 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 3: I think what Christy's really auditioning for, when he's really 309 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 3: trying to get, what all these candidates are trying to get, 310 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 3: is to emerge as the main Trump alternative, you know, 311 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 3: the guy who kind of climbs the greasy pole to 312 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 3: become the main focus of Trump and to kind of 313 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 3: go after Trump. That guy was Ron DeSantis. But DeSantis 314 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 3: has performed so poorly and has just fallen further and 315 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 3: further and further in the polls. The since in the 316 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 3: Republican field is that that role is now wide open. 317 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 3: Maybe de Santus recovers, but I think we're going to 318 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 3: see Christy go after Desantus in a very aggressive way 319 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 3: in order to make sure that he doesn't. And I 320 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 3: think Christy's hope is that if voters see somebody who 321 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 3: is a strong leader and powerful and aggressive, but they've 322 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 3: been conditioned to kind of respond to that sort of 323 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 3: thing after eight years of Donald Trump, and that they'll 324 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 3: gravitate to Christy as as an alternative. 325 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 4: That's the theory. 326 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 2: Anyway, Trump is not going to be on the stage 327 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 2: night unless he surprises everybody. Is that good or bad 328 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 2: for Christy because he clearly wants to go up against 329 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 2: Donald Trump. 330 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 3: That is the fight that everybody wanted to see. I 331 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 3: was talking to a well known Republican strategist in New 332 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 3: Hampshire named Dave Carney, who's run campaigns in the past, 333 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 3: who said Trump versus Christy on a debate stage, if 334 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 3: you made it a pay per view event, would raise 335 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 3: like two billion dollars, would be like Ali versus Frasier. 336 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 3: It's bad news for Christy that Trump is not going 337 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 3: to show up because what he really wants to do 338 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 3: is go mono amano with Trump. And you could see 339 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 3: even in Christie's emails this week, you know he's out 340 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 3: calling Trump a coward. There was an email I got. 341 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 3: The subject line for Christy was say it to my 342 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 3: face Trump. You know, he's he's trying to turn this 343 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 3: into like a kind of one on one slap fight 344 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 3: between him and Trump because he knows that if Trump 345 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 3: were to take the bait, that that would elevate Christie's 346 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 3: candidacy in a way that he very much needs it 347 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 3: to be. But Trump so far has shown fairly uncharacteristic 348 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 3: discipline in refraining from getting into it with Christy. 349 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 2: Why do you think he's not taking the bait? 350 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 4: Though? 351 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 3: You know, it's a good question, because I got to 352 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 3: be honest, I really thought he would. 353 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 4: I thought he couldn't. 354 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 3: He wouldn't be able to stand listening to Christy belittle him. 355 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 3: I mean, this is a guy who Trump had belittled, 356 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,640 Speaker 3: and he's out there every day just saying the meanest, 357 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 3: nastiest things about Trump in person, on social media and 358 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 3: TV ads through a superback. 359 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 4: I think there are two things going on with Trump. 360 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 3: One, his advisors are showing him these polls and they're saying, listen, 361 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 3: you've got a big lead. Why do you want to 362 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 3: expose yourself to other people. The other thing is that 363 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 3: Trump is in a great deal of legal jeopardy. You know, 364 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 3: he's going to be surrendering to authorities in Georgia, where 365 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 3: his latest indictment has taken place, and going out there 366 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,959 Speaker 3: and saying things off the cuff could potentially put him 367 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 3: an even greater legal jeopardy, and so why take that risk. 368 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 2: You mentioned that Christy is likely to go after Rohn 369 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 2: de Stantis. There's gonna be a lot of other people 370 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 2: up on that debate stage too, the former Vice President 371 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 2: Mike Pence, former South Carolina Governor Nikki Hayley, Senator Tim Scott. 372 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 2: Where do they figure into this big mix on the stage. 373 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 3: Most of these Republican candidates want voters to just discover 374 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 3: their excellence and elevate them to the nomination without them 375 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 3: ever having to say a mean word about Trump. As 376 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 3: Christy says on the campaign trail, they're afraid of him. 377 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 3: He likens Trump to Voldemort. 378 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: Hey, Effort's what confuses me about some of my fellow 379 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,400 Speaker 1: colleagues in this race. They don't want to talk about him. 380 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: They treat him like he's Valdemort in the Harry Potter books. 381 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: You know, he shall not be named. 382 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 3: It's going to be interesting to watch how these candidates 383 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 3: try and emerge, because most of them, like I said, 384 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 3: are afraid to go after Trump, and yet they recognize 385 00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 3: that they've got competition on that stage, and so they 386 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 3: have to emerge as the apple of voters' eyes. I 387 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 3: think one way they might do it is by going 388 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 3: after Chris Christie and attacking him is a sort of 389 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 3: bank shot way of defending Donald Trump. DeSantis, who telegraphs 390 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 3: every awkward move that he makes in politics. His superPAC 391 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 3: released a memo last week sort of saying, when Christy 392 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 3: attacks Trump, you should attack Christy because that will show 393 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,239 Speaker 3: people that you're a Trumper. And somehow that's supposed to 394 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 3: turn around his tailspin. 395 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 4: But we'll see. 396 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 3: I mean, this is what's going to make the debate 397 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 3: so exciting tonight is that nobody really knows what's going 398 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:31,880 Speaker 3: to happen or who's going to attack who, So it's 399 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 3: a battle Royale. I don't know if you are a 400 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 3: WWE fan wes when you're growing up watching professional wrestling, 401 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 3: but they all hop in the ring and just sort 402 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 3: of start wailing on each other. I think that's what 403 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 3: Christy is expecting tonight. 404 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 2: When we come back. How Christie thinks he can take 405 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 2: the nomination from Trump. 406 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 1: This is a contact sport. And the way I'm going 407 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: to appeal to any voter in New Hampshire is to 408 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: do what I just did and make the case I 409 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: can make is someone in here was a Trump voter 410 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 1: four years ago. Maybe this time they say, you know, 411 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: let me give this guy a shot. I don't have 412 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,640 Speaker 1: a specific strategy. I'm going to be myself. 413 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:17,880 Speaker 2: Josh and your piece of you posed this central question, 414 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 2: does Christy really want to be president? Or does he 415 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 2: have some other goal? And where'd you come down after 416 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 2: reporting this story. 417 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 4: Christy is a smart guy. He's a veteran politician. 418 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 3: He knows how to read a poll, and so I 419 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 3: assume that he is fully aware that he's not doing 420 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,639 Speaker 3: real great right now. Maybe the debates, you know, something 421 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 3: crazy happens, but I think he's got to know that 422 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 3: the chances of him winning the nomination are pretty low, 423 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 3: and yet he's out there gleefully attacking Trump every day. 424 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,400 Speaker 3: I think what Christy is really after here is personal redemption. 425 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,199 Speaker 3: You know, he had this wonderful reputation, He was the 426 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 3: big guy in Republican politics back in twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, 427 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 3: everybody thought he was going to be president, and then 428 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 3: Steady endorsed Trump, and what happened to Christy became almost 429 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 3: like the prototype for what happens to respectable Republicans who 430 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 3: go to work for Trump, they get chewed up and 431 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 3: spit out with their reputation in tatters. And that's pretty 432 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 3: much what happened to Chris Christy. If he goes out 433 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 3: and manages to stop Donald Trump from winning the nomination, 434 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 3: he will be a hero, not just Democrats, but to 435 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 3: a lot of Republicans too. There was a moment I 436 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 3: talked about in my piece where we were at a 437 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 3: town hall in South Carolina and this elderly woman stands 438 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 3: up and takes the microphone and turns to Christy and says, 439 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 3: when you cross the pearly gates, you will be rewarded 440 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 3: for telling the truth about Donald Trump. And everyone sort 441 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 3: of stood up and it was clapping and cheering, and 442 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,719 Speaker 3: Christy was just basking in their adulation. And so you 443 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 3: can envision a future I can't anyway, where maybe he 444 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 3: doesn't win the nomination, but he's kind of redeemed himself 445 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 3: and he becomes a big figure in politics. He gets 446 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 3: a big TV contract, you know, maybe he gets a 447 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 3: nice job with a Lincoln Project, the Anti Trump group, 448 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 3: or maybe you know, Christy's only sixty years old, which 449 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 3: is like adolescent in American electoral politics these days. There 450 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 3: will come a time eventually where Trump is off the 451 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 3: political stage and the Republican Party stands for something other 452 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 3: than Donald Trump. You know, we've been waiting for this 453 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 3: to happen for like eight years, and we're really no 454 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 3: closer to it. But at least in theory, there will 455 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 3: arrive a post Trump era, and if Republicans do finally 456 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 3: turn on Donald Trump, you know, Christy will be viewed 457 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 3: as as the truth teller who went after him when 458 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 3: other people were afraid to. 459 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 4: And so who knows, maybe. 460 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 3: In twenty twenty eight, maybe even in twenty thirty two, 461 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 3: Christy will get another chance to run for president and 462 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 3: actually make at that time a lot at stake here 463 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 3: beyond just winning the twenty twenty four nomination for Chris Christy. 464 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 2: And unlike the other candidates, Chris Christy is clearly not 465 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 2: running to be vice president. 466 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 3: No, you know, that's the other thing that's going on 467 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 3: with these debates. I mean, whether or not they realize 468 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 3: that these candidates aren't really running to beat Donald Trump. 469 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 3: I think most of them are auditioning to be Trump's 470 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 3: vice president. Oh sign at all that voters are losing 471 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 3: their affinity for him, even after all of these indictments. 472 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 3: The big plub job that is open is Who's going 473 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 3: to be Trump's VP. Obviously, the big exception of that 474 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,719 Speaker 3: is former Vice President Mike Pence, who is not going 475 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 3: to be Trump's VP in twenty twenty four, and it's 476 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 3: certainly not going to be Chris Christie, but it could 477 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,120 Speaker 3: be just about anybody else. And I think that's one 478 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 3: reason why the other candidates like Scott and Haley and 479 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 3: Vivat Ramaswami are out there running but refusing to criticize 480 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 3: Donald Trump, because I think they're hedging their bets and thinking, well, 481 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 3: you know, if Trump doesn't fall and I become nominee, 482 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 3: at least I'd have the chance to be perhaps his VP. 483 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 3: And if I were to become his VP, you would 484 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 3: then be the future of the Republican Party. 485 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 2: Why would any of these candidates want to be Trump's 486 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 2: vice president? They're going to be standing on stage with 487 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 2: the man who was and they saw how it ended 488 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 2: for him. 489 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 3: Because they're politicians and they want power and attention. And 490 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 3: the one thing we know for sure is that if 491 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 3: Donald Trump does win reelection, he's only going to be 492 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 3: serving one term. And so if you're VP, and if 493 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 3: you can walk that tightrope that Mike Pence tried to 494 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 3: walk for four years and stay in the good graces 495 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 3: of the party, then at least in theory, you are 496 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 3: the heir to Trump's dynasty and the leading Republican for 497 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 3: the nominee going into twenty twenty eight. 498 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 2: Josh, you asked Chris Christy what he wants out of this. 499 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 2: Does he want to be president? Does he just want 500 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 2: to bring down Donald Trump? What did he tell you? 501 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 3: I asked a lot of Republican strategists if they saw 502 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 3: a path to the nomination for Chris Christie. 503 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 4: And I couldn't find one who did. 504 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 3: But a number of people said they could see, given 505 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 3: his political and debating talents, that maybe he'd be able 506 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 3: to stop Donald Trump from becoming the nominee. And I 507 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 3: asked Chris Christy when we sat down, would that be 508 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 3: enough for you? Would that be a victory? And Christy 509 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 3: just rejected the premise. He said, he's not out there 510 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 3: running to stop Donald Trump. He's running to become the 511 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 3: Republican nominee and to become the president. And he said, listen, 512 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,199 Speaker 3: you know, if I go out and I wipe the 513 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 3: floor with Donald Trump, voters are going to think, Okay, 514 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,199 Speaker 3: he did that to Trump, what in God's name will 515 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 3: we do to Joe Biden. That was what Christy told me, 516 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 3: and the other thing he said, when you look back 517 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 3: at history, the guy who kills the king usually becomes 518 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 3: the king himself, not somebody else. Christy is at least 519 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 3: claiming that if he's able to stop Donald Trump, voters 520 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 3: will recognize that there's a new sheriff in town and 521 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 3: nominate him to be a presidential candidate in twenty twenty four. 522 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 3: But that's what I'm going to be watching for tonight, 523 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 3: in the debate and in the weeks ahead as Christy 524 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 3: takes on Trump, hopefully one on one. 525 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 2: Josh, great talking to you, Thanks for coming on the show. 526 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:38,719 Speaker 4: All's pleasure. 527 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to us here at The Big Take. 528 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 2: It's a daily podcast from Bloomberg and iHeartRadio. For more 529 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 2: shows from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 530 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 2: wherever you listen. And we'd love to hear from you. 531 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 2: Email us questions or comments to Big Take at Bloomberg 532 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,679 Speaker 2: dot net. The supervising producer of The Big Take is 533 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 2: Vicky Bergolina, our senior producer is Catherine Fink. Our producers 534 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 2: are Mow Barrow and Michael Falero. Hilde Garcia as our engineer. 535 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 2: Our original music was composed by Leo Sidrin. I'm west Ksova. 536 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 2: We'll be back tomorrow with another big take.