1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media, Hello, and welcome to Cool People did 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,559 Speaker 1: Cool Stuff your weekly reminder that when there's bad things happening, 3 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 1: there's good things happening, which is a particularly funny thing 4 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: to say this week. But if you're listening in the future, 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: I've had to do this bit like so many times 6 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 1: where I'm like, well, if you're listening to the future, 7 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 1: clearly this was a crazy week. But it's twenty twenty five, 8 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: so you have no idea what a week I'm talking 9 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: about unless you're listening next week. Anyway. I'm your host, 10 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: Margaret Kiljoy, and I have a guest this week, and 11 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 1: my guest is Bridget Todd. 12 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 2: Hi, how are you? Hi? Margaret? You know, things are happening. 13 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 2: Life is happening, as you alluded to you. Hm, it's 14 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 2: been a lot this week. If you're listening at a 15 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 2: different time, you probably have no idea what we're talking about. 16 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 2: I'll assume there's a lot going on whenever you're listening 17 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 2: to you. 18 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: Know already by like next Monday when this comes out, Like, 19 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 1: who knows is something else going to happen? 20 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 2: Genuinely truly, who knows? 21 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, we're not going to tell you because obviously 22 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,559 Speaker 1: this is a really good moment to just talk about history. 23 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: But first I want to introduce this week's producer, well 24 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: always one of the producers, just not always on air, 25 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: is Ian. 26 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:15,479 Speaker 3: Hi Hey, Margaret Hey, Bridget hi Ian excited to be here. Yeah, 27 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 3: it's a wild time we're living in. But you know what, 28 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 3: let's learn about something cool and positive right now. So 29 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 3: let's do it. 30 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's mostly about stuff that later got used for bad, 31 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: but it doesn't get Actually that's not true. I think 32 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: this is a genuinely positive week. Ooh okay, cool stuff 33 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: with only minor setbacks along the way. Our audio engineers, 34 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: Eva hi Eva hi. 35 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 2: Eva hi Eva, thank you for editing this episode. 36 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, and our music was produced for us by Unwoman. 37 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: So this is a nice, calm, peaceful week to record 38 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: a history podcast. Obviously we can all take a break 39 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: and think about things that happened a long time ago. 40 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: And I was thinking, well, I'm gonna have Bridget Todd 41 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: on the show. And for people who are listening who 42 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: don't know who you are, you are the host of 43 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: the show. There are no girls on the internet, which 44 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: is confusing because there are girls on the internet. But 45 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: I think it might be irony. 46 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 2: Yes, it's that. I mean, every time I am asked 47 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 2: about that title, I kind of regret it because it's 48 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,399 Speaker 2: sort of an inside joke with myself. It's also a mouthful, 49 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 2: but that is the name of the show, and there 50 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 2: are girls on the internet. There's everybody on the internet. 51 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 2: We're all represented here, there, everywhere. 52 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: I think it's a good title. I liked long titles, 53 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: and I think that the irony is clear and present. 54 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 1: It's just it's much like making a joke out of 55 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: someone's name. You like, you've probably heard a million times though, 56 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: but there are girls on the Internet, so I already 57 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: regret trying to make that a bit. 58 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:43,959 Speaker 3: And the acronym is pretty fun too, Tangoti is fun 59 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 3: to say. 60 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 2: So yeah, that was intentional. I knew I wanted a 61 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 2: show name that you can make into an acronym that 62 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 2: you could like say out loud, Margaret. Do you get 63 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 2: the same thing? Also having a long podcast title. 64 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,519 Speaker 1: Oh, what I get is that no one remembers the title. 65 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: And I meet people and they're like, I love your show. 66 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: I listen every week to cool people who did to 67 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:11,959 Speaker 1: do cool things, and I'm like, you know what that's 68 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: on me? It cannot hold it against anyone that they 69 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: can't keep that straight. 70 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 2: Yeah close enough. 71 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm happy that people listen. I don't really 72 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: care if they know the title or not. But you 73 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: do a lot of work around telecommunications. I think it's 74 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: fair to say, well, we're going to talk about the 75 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: history of telecommunications, because we're going to talk about the 76 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: history of radio. That's what we're going to talk about 77 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: this week. 78 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 2: Ooh hell yeah. This is very much in my sphere 79 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 2: of interest. 80 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: Cool. I thought that that was possible, and so I'm 81 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: excited to talk about it. Last week we talked about 82 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: the history of pirate radio, because what happened is I 83 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: started researching the history of pirate radio, being like, clearly, 84 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: this is where all the radicals are, this is going 85 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: to be the really interesting part of radio history. And 86 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: there was a lot of really cool stuff there. And 87 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: then I started running across public radio and like open 88 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: source radio technology as a whole separate thing that I 89 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: got really excited about. So this week that's what we're 90 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: talking about. We were talking about the history of public radio, 91 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: and we're talking about the guy who actually invented radio, 92 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: who isn't who everyone says invented radio because you'll be 93 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 1: shocked to know this. He wasn't a white man. 94 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 2: I am not shocked to know this, but I'm please 95 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 2: all the same. I want to add something if that's okay, 96 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 2: which is, yeah, please do. The reason why I'm kind 97 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 2: of geeking out about this is that I am such 98 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: an audio girly. I'm such a like radio person. And 99 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 2: the reason why I'm a podcaster is because I grew 100 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 2: up in a house where my parents always had an 101 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 2: PR on, always had public radio on. In the car, 102 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 2: we had public radio on. My parents donated to public radio. 103 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 2: It was just a thing that was in the background 104 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 2: of my childhood and young adulthood. And I genuinely do 105 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 2: not think I would be a podcaster now if not 106 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 2: for grow going up immersed in public radio. It's such 107 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 2: an important resource that we have. 108 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about how everything this 109 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: year is just me accidentally researching the history of stuff 110 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: they're trying to take away from us. Yes, you know, 111 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 1: a while ago is all revolutions, and then this year 112 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: I'm like, it's the basic infrastructure of our society that 113 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: actually is worth maintaining, you know. And it's interesting because 114 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 1: we're well, I'll get to this, okay, but first I 115 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: want to talk about what is radio because I love context. 116 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: The ability to communicate over distances has been wildly important 117 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: technology since forever. The faster and more losslessly we can communicate, 118 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: the more we can organize ourselves and accomplish things, which 119 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: of course also means accomplishing bad things like the ability 120 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,679 Speaker 1: Communication systems are a very important part about exercising power 121 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: at distance, and so the ability for states and empires 122 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: to exist has a lot to do with communication systems. 123 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 1: Besides the point a little bit, there's all kinds of 124 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: ways that people have communicated over distance. I'm not going 125 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: to get into the history of all of them because 126 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: I didn't research the history of all of them. But 127 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: you know, you have like horns and smoke and all 128 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. But my favorite is semaphore. You 129 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: ever heard of semaphore? 130 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 2: I have not. 131 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: Semaphore is what ships do where you have flags. 132 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, it reminds me of color guard, which I did 133 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 2: when I was in high school. 134 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you're basically doing semaphore. Yeah, early telecommunication was 135 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: color guard. I say that as if I'm joking. I'm 136 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: kind of not that actually is what it is basically, 137 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,919 Speaker 1: and so people would use windmill like towers to communicate 138 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: over long distances. You set them up at different distances 139 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: so they can see each other, and you can transmit 140 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 1: a signal that way, right by having the different arms 141 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: do different things. The most famous example of this in 142 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: history is of course, the signal fires that Gondor lit 143 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: to request aid from Rome. 144 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 3: I was literally thinking of that. We were talking about 145 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 3: signals over long diest. Oh, like the fire's and Gondor okay, great, 146 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 3: that's aw. 147 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,719 Speaker 1: Exactly okay, And you know, but that was only a 148 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: binary form of communication. They're either lit or unlit. Semaphore towers, 149 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: which you know obviously were developed after the Third Age 150 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: of Middle Earth, are much more useful for a lot 151 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: of this. Semaphore towers were used for like stock prices 152 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: and all this stuff that I have researched at different 153 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: periods in my life that are not this one. They're 154 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: not in the script. Then you get the telegraph, which 155 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: changes the fucking world using a code called Morse Code 156 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: invented by a guy named Morse. Although after researching the 157 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: rest of this episode, I feel like if I like 158 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: dug into it, I'd be like, actually, he didn't invent it, 159 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: some other. 160 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 2: Guy, but yeah, probably yeah, yeah, probably a traditionally marginalized 161 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 2: person and he just got credit. 162 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And I don't know anything about Morris. I 163 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: did not research this part of it. But the first 164 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: telegraph message transmitted over any real distance was between DC 165 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: and Baltimore and it was May twenty fourth, eighteen forty four, 166 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: and that message was what hath God wrought? 167 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 2: WHOA What an intense message to be the first thing 168 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 2: it transmitted. 169 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, for the first one. 170 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like it's a real classy way to 171 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: do it. And people use telegraph to control railroads and 172 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: then spread news. But people were like, yeah, but what 173 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: about without wires? And some folks starting in eighteen twenty 174 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: were like, huh, if you run electricity through a wire, 175 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: it makes magnetic waves. And by eighteen sixty four someone 176 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:33,679 Speaker 1: was like, you can actually pick those electric magnetic waves 177 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: up from far away. But they weren't very good at 178 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: that part of it yet receiving Actually it was the 179 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: harder hurdle for people to cross. And a guy named Hertz, 180 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: after whom the measurement of waves is named, was like, also, yeah, 181 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: they travel at the fucking speed of light. Isn't that cool? 182 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: Almost every version of who Invented Radio comes down to 183 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: a pissing match between Tesla, who didn't invent radio, and 184 00:08:55,480 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: an Italian guy named Wielmo Marconi. And almost every article 185 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: you will find, and I started writing this script based 186 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: on all of the articles I found that say, good 187 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: old Wielielmo Marconi invented this. He's the guy who commercialized it. 188 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: He's the guy who tried to make a lot of 189 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: money off of it. He did invent some radio things, 190 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: but he was both a successful inventor and grifter behind. 191 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: Every rich white guy inventor is an inventor, not all 192 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: three of those things, often two of them. It's often 193 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: like a rich whitey. 194 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 2: I was just thinking, I mean, I know, you're talking 195 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 2: about stuff from history, but not a damn thing changed. 196 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 2: I feel like I could name some inventor grifters today. 197 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: I know, I don't even have the research in front 198 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: of me. The motion picture was Addison, who gets the 199 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: credit for inventing motion picture. It was a guy who 200 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: worked for him, So it was a non rich white guy. 201 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: I think anyway, whatever, one of the people who was 202 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: left out of this story, not every verse the story. 203 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: Obviously I did not do all of this whatever. I 204 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: eventually found more interesting research about an Indian scientist named 205 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose. And I was really sad because 206 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: I'd done all this research about Marcroni and he's like 207 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: a real mid guy. I'm not excited about him as 208 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: a person. Jaggaedis fucking rules as far as I can tell. 209 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: Haven't found a negative thing about him yet. And I 210 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:27,719 Speaker 1: even go through all the like check marks about like 211 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: well where were they politically, Like well, how does he 212 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:30,319 Speaker 1: treat him? 213 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 2: You know, you're the diving deep. You're like, I want 214 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 2: the backstory. If there's tea, I want to know about it. 215 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally when I eventually do my eventual spinoff, which 216 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: is basically a version of your favorite problematic the old 217 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: Tumblr page, but then just about historical figures. Jagadish was 218 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: born on November thirtieth, eighteen fifty eight, in Bengal, in 219 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: a part that was then India but it's now Bangladesh. 220 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: Jaggatish grew up the child of privilege. To be sure, 221 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: his father was high up in the British colonial government 222 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: of India. The Indian civil services and so worked for 223 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: the colonizing folks. But his dad one was part of 224 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: a Hindu group that specifically was against the caste system. 225 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: And also instead of sending Jagadish to an English school, 226 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,719 Speaker 1: which is what the children of privilege were supposed to do, 227 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: he was sent to a vernacular school so that he 228 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: could grow up speaking Bangla, his traditional language, and his 229 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: family was committed to preserving Indian culture in the face 230 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: of colonization. But do you know what comes into the 231 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: middle of things to change them and try and make 232 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: money off of them. 233 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 2: I could not even imagine advertising, of course, Yeah, much 234 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 2: like the ads that you're going to listen to now. 235 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: And we're back, okay. So Jagadish at vernacular school, his 236 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: classmates were of all different classes and castes, and they 237 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: were Muslim and Hindu alike. And one of his best 238 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: friends was Muslim, which is abe like still a big 239 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: deal today. There's a you know, huge amount of tension 240 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: in South Asia. So one of his best friends was 241 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: Muslim and another one was a fisherman's son, and he 242 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: talked his whole life about how he thought the Hindu 243 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: versus Muslim conflict in South Asia was bullshit, and he 244 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: talks about how he learned to love the natural world 245 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: from his friend who was raised by a fisherman, and 246 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: so just he was like, which is a little bit 247 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: of a like rich kid gets to hang out with 248 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: the poor kid and like learn stuff. 249 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 3: But like yeah, he's like, oh, going outside is like 250 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 3: actually kind of fun, Like it's nice. 251 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they're right about this whole going outside and 252 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 2: getting some sunshine thing. 253 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, obviously everyone's just choosing to be a fisherman. I 254 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: can't imagine any other society. Yeah. So Bo's grows up 255 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: and he goes off to London to study science, and 256 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 1: then he comes back to India and he starts studying microwaves, 257 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: which were called I think millimeter waves at the time, 258 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: and two years before the Italian guy takes all the 259 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: credit for it, he publicly demonstrates the existence of radio waves. 260 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: And he does it with like flair. I think he 261 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: sets it up so that the receiver once it receives 262 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: it's like it goes through multiple walls and does all 263 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: this stuff and then it triggers a gun that goes bang. 264 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 3: Okay, not what I was expected. 265 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, pretty badass also. 266 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 3: But yeah, very dramatic. I love it. 267 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he which is funny too, Rick, because 268 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: it's like he didn't get famous for it, and you 269 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: would think, oh, because he just sort of quietly only 270 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: cared about the science. Like no, he's doing public expositions, 271 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: he is traveling the world. He just he is from 272 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,959 Speaker 1: the wrong country, he's the wrong color, and he's not 273 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: trying to make money off of it. 274 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 2: And it sounds like a flair for pageantry. 275 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: Also oh yeah, yeah, absolutely to quote write up from 276 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: Interesting Engineering dot Com. Quote to aid in his studies, 277 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: he invented almost all of the basic components of microwave systems, 278 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: and when we say microwave we mean millimeter waves, we 279 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: mean radio waves in this context, and he didn't patent 280 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 1: almost anything. Decades later, he was convinced by one of 281 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: his friends to apply for a patent or two, but 282 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: he didn't want to capitalize on it. He invented much 283 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: better radio receivers, and twice two different times in his 284 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 1: life he like dramatically improves radio receivers because for years 285 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: what people have been using before was called a coherer, 286 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: in which little bits of metal would be held in 287 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: a tube and then as conductors pick up radio waves. 288 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: It would cause them to stick together and that would 289 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: create enough conductivity for the electricity to move through it. 290 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: I am absolutely I did okay in science class, but 291 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: I am an art school dropout. 292 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 2: That all sounded right to me. I also did bad 293 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 2: in science, but two like DC science students combined. 294 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: That's like, we know we're doing Yeah totally. And after 295 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: this coherer it worked, but you would have to reset 296 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: it every single time it picked up a radio wave, 297 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: which is obviously not a very effective system. So Joggaty 298 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: invented a better coherer, which was made with mercury an 299 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: oil and an iron disc and stuff that is over 300 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: my head and pretty regularly on the show, I start 301 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: reading about a guy who seems cool and then is 302 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: kind of a dick to the people he loves, but 303 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: Jagadish early on in his life, as he's invented all 304 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: this stuff, he marries one of the earliest and most 305 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: important Indian feminists, a social worker named Lady Abala Bos. 306 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: Their titles come later. He gets knighted in the nineteen 307 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: ten sometime, and then even that right, I've occasionally covered 308 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: like people from colonized areas who become knights on this show, 309 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: like there's this Irish guy who you know, became a knight, 310 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, that's kind of complicated because right 311 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: like if someone was like, hey, you can be a knight, 312 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: I'd be like really torn, right Yeah, although the Wikipedia 313 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: list of people who refuse knighthood is like just kind 314 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: of cool. That's all the people who are like, man, 315 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: I want nothing to do with the United Kingdom, fuck you. 316 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: But even that right to like spoil something's going to 317 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: come later. Like he was like, oh, absolutely, I'd happily 318 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: be a knight as he continues to like hide revolutionaries 319 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: and like euse the fact that he's this important scientist 320 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: to advance the cause of independence in India. 321 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 2: Awesome. 322 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, but radio wasn't this man's passion. I was all 323 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: said to be like, oh, there's this guy invented some stuff. 324 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 3: Right, this is like a side project for him. Oh 325 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 3: my gods. 326 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: Yea, it's like he's like learning this stuff. He cares 327 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: about it now. His passion is that he wants to 328 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: prove that all living things feel, and even more than that, 329 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: he actually is really into proving that there's not a 330 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: huge difference between living and non living matter and that 331 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: everything is in flux all of the time. But he 332 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: wants to prove specifically the main thing that he's like 333 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: known for besides inventing radio, is he wants to prove 334 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: that plants have response to stimuli, that they can feel pain, 335 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: and that they have what amounts to emotions, that they 336 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: have a nervous system. And so he studied how plants 337 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: react to stimuli. Have you ever heard this stuff about 338 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: like the whole plants can feel? 339 00:16:59,520 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 3: I have. 340 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to say, I'm so curious how this 341 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 2: just became his thing. You know, it's like, I'm gonna 342 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 2: invent radio on the side, but my true passion is 343 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:10,959 Speaker 2: pointing out that plants feel stuff. 344 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 1: What I think it comes I read it didn't end 345 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:15,719 Speaker 1: up in the script. I read a bunch of different 346 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: things about him, and I think it comes from that 347 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 1: he was like, while doing radio stuff, he got really 348 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: interested in just like all of these different things putting 349 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: out different kinds of like waves and different kind of 350 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: ways of essentially communicating that we can't hear. 351 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 3: Okay, that's interesting. 352 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: And so he was kind of like, what else is 353 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: under there? 354 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 3: Oh? 355 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 2: Interesting? 356 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 1: And he also it was a kind of spiritual thing 357 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: for him. Too, and this is part of why it 358 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: gets ignored in the West. For like one hundred years, 359 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: people are into it again. But for like one hundred 360 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,880 Speaker 1: years people were like, we're just gonna ignore this guy. 361 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: So the same year, in nineteen oh one, we're gonna 362 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: get to it. But in nineteen oh one, Marconi, the 363 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,880 Speaker 1: Italian guy, is gonna do this like elaborate hoax pretending 364 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 1: to transmit radio waves that people still think is real. 365 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 1: And and Bose presented evidence of plants responding to stimulus, 366 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: and he wrote, quote, all around us, the plants are communicating. 367 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: We just don't notice it. He also was like into 368 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: the idea that like, harsh music makes them grow unhappy, 369 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 1: and happy music makes them grow happy, and that plants 370 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: that are spoken to kindly are happier. And this is 371 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: stuff that's like this is debated today. There's like mixed studies. 372 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: There's some studies that are like, oh, yeah, there seems 373 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: to be some evidence around that, and other ones that 374 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: are like. 375 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 2: I've heard this stuff today, and yeah, when you describe 376 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 2: it that way, it does make more sense how his 377 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 2: interest in radio is connected to these positions about plants. Also, 378 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,479 Speaker 2: I feel like it's classic audio nerd podcaster of like, 379 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 2: I have these very specific interests that I'm resuming on 380 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 2: the side, it's like every podcaster I know that's their 381 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 2: mo Yeah. 382 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: Absolutely. I feel like podcaster, like writer, is one of 383 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: those things where it can't be your only interest because 384 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: you have to do it about things. You have to 385 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: care about things. 386 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 3: You know, right, Yeah, like what's the podcast about? 387 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: Yeah? 388 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 2: And Okay, So. 389 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: His idea is very ahead of his time. He's very 390 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: into plants, but he's also very into radio, and he's 391 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: seen as one of the founders of the open source 392 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: movement for like modern telecommunications because of the fact that 393 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,959 Speaker 1: he would refuse to patent all of his things, and 394 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: he wanted just to advance knowledge, right. And it's interesting 395 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 1: because you get this like with radio and the Pirate 396 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: Radio episodes, we talked about how there's kind of a 397 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: three way fight over who owns the airwaves. Is it 398 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 1: owned by commercial interests, is it owned by state interests, 399 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: or is it owned by the public, And those are 400 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:49,199 Speaker 1: like kind of the three possible polls. And so in 401 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 1: some ways, by really just wanting to advance knowledge of radio, 402 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: he's kind of help laying some groundwork for what becomes 403 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 1: public radio. I mean, he's obviously laying the groundwork for 404 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: any radio right, but the idea that this should be 405 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: a public good. He's doing some of that groundwork. As 406 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 1: he gets older, he continues to invent new radio things. 407 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: He uses semiconductor junctions whatever they are, to detect radio signals. 408 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: So this is the second time that he completely changes 409 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 1: the way that people receive radio waves. He writes science fiction. 410 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 1: His best friend was a poet who fought for Indian independence, 411 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: but was explicitly an internationalist, not a nationalist, which is 412 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: already like, if you're fighting for independence from a colonized 413 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: country and you want to be a nationalist, I am 414 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: not giving you shit, you know, But if you want 415 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: to be an internationalist instead, that's like even cooler from 416 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 1: my point of view. Yeah, When he gets hired as 417 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 1: a professor at a college in Calcutta, he realizes they're 418 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: not giving him like full professorship, and they're only giving 419 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 1: him a third of the salary of his white peers, 420 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: which is I think this is the only time that 421 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 1: this has happened in history. 422 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 2: I can't think of any other examples. Yet, it certainly 423 00:20:58,600 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 2: never happened to me. 424 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: Why would it I can't imagine it. I've never noticed 425 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 1: any disparity, so it clearly isn't happening. And so he 426 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: refuses his entire salary and protest, which is one of 427 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: those things where you're like, doesn't that just help the 428 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: other side, But it actually after three years of him 429 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: refusing the salary, the school caves and starts paying people equal. 430 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 2: Wow, So doing this actually got pay equity for everything. 431 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 1: Which is like literally him using his class privilege in 432 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,399 Speaker 1: a positive way because he can take it on the 433 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: nose and like go without pay for three years. Apparently, 434 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: I'm starting to. 435 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 2: See what you mean about this guy. Very rad guy. 436 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: And I've only found a little bit about this anyone 437 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,400 Speaker 1: who's famous for something other than politics. People don't talk 438 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: about their politics, right, and so I've only been able 439 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: to find one thing, and it's mostly saying like, hey, 440 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: people don't really talk about his politics. But he and 441 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: his wife would use the fact that the British government 442 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: trusted them to hide Indian revolutionaries and independent activists in 443 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 1: their home because no one will go look there because 444 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: he's a sir. You can't go into his house, you know, 445 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: And all along he's kind of like a wing that 446 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: scientist guy, right, And when he eventually opens his own school, 447 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: the Bows Institute, he said at it's opening quote, I 448 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: dedicate today this institute not merely a laboratory, but a temple. 449 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 1: The power of physical methods applies to the establishment of 450 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: that truth, which can be realized directly through our senses 451 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 1: or through the vast expansion of the perceptive range by 452 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: means of artificially created organs. And so he's just basically 453 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: he's like, we're going to try and discover truth, which 454 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: we can't totally do, but we can do it with 455 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: science and our senses and making new senses through machines. 456 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: And I'm like, that's kind of cool. 457 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's badass. Yeah, that's cool. 458 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 1: When he was in his seventies, he was still traveling 459 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: the world people that plants have a nervous system, and 460 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: he basically like hit this point where in the West 461 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 1: people are just dismissing his ideas about plants because they 462 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,239 Speaker 1: blend with spirituality and are like, this isn't science, and 463 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: he is applying the scientific method, but it's like also 464 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: he's seeing like and so therefore and making statements that 465 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: people are like, oh, I can't totally back whatever. People 466 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: are just being like, everything is not cold, weird Western science, 467 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 1: so we don't have anything to do with you, you know. 468 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:32,719 Speaker 1: And so for generations his work was ignored. But it's 469 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: having a bit of a comeback now. Yeah, he's not 470 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 1: the guy who gets credit for radio. 471 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so interesting because I do feel like he 472 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 2: sounds like somebody who was really ahead of his time, 473 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 2: because a lot of these ideas, as you were saying, 474 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 2: are I've heard today. I've heard this idea of talking 475 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 2: to plants, playing nice music to plants. I do not 476 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 2: know what the evidence is there. I couldn't I couldn't 477 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,679 Speaker 2: speak to it. But it's interesting that these ideas that 478 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 2: were sort of talked about as sort of crackpot dismissed 479 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 2: against this backdrop of really not accepting spiritualism today are 480 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 2: sort of much more commonplace. 481 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: Right, and like and some of the stuff that he 482 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 1: is talking about, you can scientifically say where you like, well, 483 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: you can actually study the plant's reaction to stimuli. 484 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 2: Right. 485 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 1: You can't then say, oh, it's because you said something 486 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 1: nice that the plant is doing well. And Yeah, I 487 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: just like this guy, but he's not who gets credit 488 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: for radio. Do you know ads don't get credit for 489 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: radio either, but they're tightly connected in so really, I 490 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: don't know, here's ads and we're back. So there are 491 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: people who took radio and capitalized on it and did 492 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: some of the actual inventing, as far as I can tell. 493 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: The guy that I originally thought i'd be talking about, 494 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,120 Speaker 1: And so I was just speed running the radio history 495 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: because it wasn't interesting me and getting to the other parts. 496 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: But then I discovered this whole other subplot and got 497 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 1: really excited about it. Whatever. Marconi is the guy who's 498 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 1: famous for it, this Italian aristocrat wheely Elmo Marconi, and 499 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: he was like, all right, let's do something with all 500 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: this radio stuff. In eighteen ninety nine he presented real 501 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 1: telegraphy with radio waves. Real, Hey, I'm going to communicate 502 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 1: something over distance with this. He did it four years 503 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: after Jagadish, and then in nineteen oh one he claimed 504 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: to transmit across the Atlantic from the UK to New 505 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: York City. And I wrote this in my first version 506 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: of the script because every I don't know if you've 507 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: run across this. Whenever I researched a history thing, every 508 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: like pop version of a history is just wrong. Yeah, 509 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: it's so frustrating because it shouldn't be, because, like I'm 510 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: still doing a pop history. I'm not a historian, right, 511 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: But it's the easiest, laziest version of the story, or 512 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: not even lessarly laziest, the version of the story that 513 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 1: everyone hears. That makes a nice, clean story. 514 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, I completely agree with you. I'm so happy that 515 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 2: we have people like you who are committed to telling 516 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 2: the real story because oftentime, the real story, even if 517 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 2: it's more complicated or more nuanced or messier, it's just 518 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 2: as juicy, just as interesting. 519 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like him being kind of a grifter and an 520 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: inventor kind of makes him more interesting. Otherwise he was 521 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: just like a rich Italian dude. I was like, I 522 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: discovered the radio, I'm wonderful, you know, definitely, And he 523 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,959 Speaker 1: kind of did, right, Like I think he's sending messages 524 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: more than just make gun go bang, right, And so 525 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: he sets up to transmit from the UK to New 526 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: York City and articles say, and then he did. But 527 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: the thing is, it was probably a hoax. And if 528 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: it wasn't a hoax, he was just wrong because he 529 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: was the one listening to the headphones in New York City. 530 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: In nineteen oh one and was like, aha, I can 531 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:54,439 Speaker 1: hear the transmission, right, and no one else put on 532 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 1: the headphones to hear it. I can't believe they let 533 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: that shit slide. And also the whole thing he was 534 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: transmitting was I think it's the Morse letter s, but 535 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: it's just a dot, you know, like Morse codes like 536 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: dots and dashes, right, and so it was just a dot, 537 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: that's all he was transmitting. So any like interference or 538 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 1: noise could have sounded like that, right, But realistically he 539 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: probably just like straight up lied or maybe he thought 540 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: it was gonna work and he like waited there for 541 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: a long time and he was like, uh yeah, yeah, yeah, 542 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:25,640 Speaker 1: there it is, you. 543 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,160 Speaker 2: Know Elizabeth Holmes style, right, Like I thought I could 544 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 2: get it to work. It didn't work, but you know, 545 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 2: a for effort, I try to fuck it. 546 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:37,439 Speaker 1: And modern analysis of how he did this transmission using 547 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 1: that same technology as like, nah, that wouldn't have worked. 548 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: As a write up by the public radio station WSHU 549 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,959 Speaker 1: put it, quote, atmospheric conditions would have made propagation at 550 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: this frequency nearly impossible, even using today's sensitive receivers and 551 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 1: modern transmitters of far greater power than Marconi's station produced. 552 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,360 Speaker 2: He's just sort of pulling a fast one here. 553 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,919 Speaker 1: And it is this moment that is like the history book, 554 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 1: and radio has made it. It's nineteen oh one and 555 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 1: it has crossed the Atlantic, you know. But they are 556 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: already transmitting things by radio, originally Morse code. By nineteen 557 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: oh six, someone transmits music by radio. By nineteen ten, 558 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 1: there's entertainment broadcasting. The first commercial radio station in the 559 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,439 Speaker 1: US was in Pennsylvania in nineteen twenty, and until the 560 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: TV hit the scenes in the nineteen fifties, the radio 561 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 1: was kind of the home entertainment of choice for at 562 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: least Americans. Marconi was kind of a dick and a grifter. 563 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: At one point he was making this claim that his 564 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: radio waves couldn't be interfered with. He was like, it's 565 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: secure this way of transmitting, it'll be fine. But by 566 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: nineteen oh three, when he's making this claim, it's kind 567 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: of wild how fastation moves. Even one hundred years ago, 568 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: people are like, oh, everything's so fast with the internet. 569 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: By nineteen oh three, there's other people doing this at 570 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: the same scale that he's doing it, right, And so 571 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: by nineteen oh three, other people have been working on 572 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: this stuff too, and so they're like, yeah, that's not true. 573 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: Radio isn't secure. What are you talking about. And so 574 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: rather than just say hey, he's lying, instead they did 575 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: the first wireless hack, the first pirate radio broadcast, and 576 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: the first act of telecommunications trolling all at once. 577 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 2: Oh my god, Oh my god, that's awesome. 578 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: I got really excited about this part. This is why 579 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: I was going to include the history of radio at all. 580 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: Was this moment. So Marconi set himself up three hundred 581 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: miles away from I think London, and was going to 582 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: transmit messages to his associate, a scientist named John Fleming, 583 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: who is lecturing for the Royal Society, which is a 584 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,080 Speaker 1: big deal because it has Royal in the name, and 585 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: it's a society. It's one of the like sciencey things. 586 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: And Fleming is giving this whole lecture, and then the 587 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: Morse code receiver at the back starts receiving words which 588 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: it's supposed to. It starts receiving first the word rats 589 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: over and over again, and then rats, rats rets, and 590 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: then it starts in on a dirty limerick to make 591 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: fun of Marconi. Oh my god, and I've only found 592 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: the first lines of this limerick, which was there was 593 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: a young man from Italy who diddled the public quite prettily. 594 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 2: Not the first recorded it sounds like it. 595 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 3: Sounds like it. 596 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: And so while researching this, I workshopped what a full 597 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: limerick might have been with my friends. This would have 598 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: been a perfect transition, but we've already done with them, 599 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: so I'm not going to do it. What we've got 600 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: for the full dirty limerick, that is a tie, just 601 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: me and my friends making it up, and also the 602 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: dirtiest thing I'll probably ever say on air. There once 603 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: was a young man from Italy who diddled the public 604 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: quite prettily. He faked a message in Morse and got 605 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: on his horse and sucked him myself off quite literally. 606 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: And if he needed an ad break, it was gonna be. 607 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: He faked a message in Morse and got on his 608 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: horse and cut to ads immediately. That would have been good, 609 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: That would have been what I wanted to pull off. 610 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 2: But yeah, that's this. 611 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: And so this hack was done by a guy named 612 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: Neville Masculine. Hold on mask Elin, his name is fucking masculine, 613 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: just leaving me not knowing to pronounce this guy's name. 614 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: It's m A M A s k E l y 615 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: n E masculine, Neville masculine who ran a competing wireless 616 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: service and was also a stage man magician. So a 617 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: fucking stage magician did this. 618 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 2: I love all the theatric that explains all of the 619 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 2: theatrics and pageantry involved in all of this. 620 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely well, because like early science and like stage 621 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: magic weren't the most dissimilar fields, you. 622 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 2: Know, right, Yeah, it was just this is such a 623 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 2: non sequitor. But I was watching that Nathan Fielder show, 624 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 2: the rehearsal the season about flight, and I was so 625 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 2: interested to learn that in the early days of people 626 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 2: trying to do aviation and like learn how to fly 627 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 2: and make flying machines, all those guys were also like 628 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 2: showmen and comedians, and so it was like, like I 629 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 2: looked down upon trade aviation before it was a thing 630 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 2: and it was associated with like showmanship and entertainment and comedy. 631 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 2: It's just interesting how science and I don't know, intentional 632 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,479 Speaker 2: spectacle is all sort of overlapped. 633 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 1: Which is cool because it's like, and maybe I say 634 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: this because I'm in you know, pop history, not academic history, 635 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: but like I think it's cool that how do you 636 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: present these ideas to the public. Has always kind of 637 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: been part of it, even if it does lead to 638 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: an awful lot of grifters. 639 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 2: I mean, there probably is a straight line from that 640 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 2: sentiment to people like Elon Musk making big shows of 641 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 2: what their technology can do, or like Sam Altman making 642 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 2: a big show about what their technology can do, only 643 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 2: to be like, oh, well this was all a lie. 644 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, or even the like big huge like announcing the 645 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: new Mac products and it's like iPhone thirty four and 646 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: you're like, is it different than iPhone thirty three and 647 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: they're like. 648 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, they literally just had one that was like that. 649 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like the battery last longer. 650 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 2: She's got a new hat. 651 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: Totally so much pageantry and everyone gets really excited, and 652 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, you know whatever. I like being 653 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 1: entertained as well. But I do think it's interesting that 654 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 1: the stage magician was the one who was like, I mean, 655 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: he's he's pranking, right, but he's the one being like, no, 656 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 1: this is because you lied. This is because you're a grifter. 657 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 1: I'm calling you out for that, you know. And the 658 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: way that they did it is that they they just 659 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: sent out a more powerful signal from closer, which is 660 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: all that it takes to overdo a radio signal is 661 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: transmit something more powerful from closer. And so now radio exists. 662 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 1: And one of the biggest questions at the beginning of 663 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,279 Speaker 1: radio was who's going to own the airwaves? Is it corporations, 664 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,880 Speaker 1: is it the state? Is it the public? And Europe 665 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 1: the answer was generally the state. We talked about this 666 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 1: on the Pirate Radio episodes because we focused on Europe 667 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: and how like commercial radio and like rock and roll 668 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: only really hit because Pirate radio commercial stations played and 669 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,240 Speaker 1: they were like, Hey, we want to play pop music 670 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:45,399 Speaker 1: and we're going to do it with ads and all 671 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: that stuff illegally or skirting the law. Like some of 672 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,359 Speaker 1: the first ones were basically people parking boats outside in 673 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: international waters outside of England. In the US, will be 674 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 1: shocked to know the answer from the beginning was like corporations, 675 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: but all along there were people who were also like, no, 676 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: it's us, It's the public who should own this. And 677 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 1: you will be shocked, absolutely shocked to hear that I 678 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,319 Speaker 1: am the most excited about the last of these three 679 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,399 Speaker 1: about public ownership. You might be shocked because I work 680 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: for iHeartMedia, who owns iHeartRadio, which is basically a rebranding 681 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: of Clear Channel Communications, which has since the nineties basically 682 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: bought up every possible radio station it can legally own 683 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,919 Speaker 1: without being in trouble for creating a monopoly, which during 684 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: massive deregulation in the nineties, meant more and more stations, 685 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 1: currently a total of eight hundred and fifty five stations, 686 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 1: which is more than three times the second biggest radio network, Odyssey. 687 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: And then in twenty eighteen, iHeart acquired a podcast network 688 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: and that's who I work for. But thanks genuinely thanks 689 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 1: to the umbrella of cool Zone Media, there is no 690 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 1: interference on what I can and can't talk about besides 691 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,320 Speaker 1: like what will get me sued or arrested. 692 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,440 Speaker 2: Anyway, Margaret, iHeartRadio was a wonderful company. I don't know 693 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 2: what you're implying here. There are a wonderful company. 694 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 1: We all love them. What's funny is that, do y'all 695 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 1: know what clear channel means? 696 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,320 Speaker 2: Does it have a meeting? It does? 697 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,840 Speaker 1: I didn't know this. Clear Channel is AM radio stations 698 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: that are given like monopoly over an area so that 699 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 1: there's no interfering airwaves happening in that area. 700 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,439 Speaker 2: Wow, pretty bold to name your radio company that. 701 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 3: Oh my god. Okay, yeah, I did not know. 702 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: It's okay, it's totally different company. And so I like 703 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: public ownership of the airwaves the best, and that is 704 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: the hardest one to get. Basically, state owned radio was 705 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:40,840 Speaker 1: the norm in the Eastern Bloc as well as the 706 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: UK with the BBC, while privately owned commercial broadcasters with 707 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: the norm and much of the rest of the world. 708 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 1: State owned radio has proven to be fundamentally conservative most 709 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,320 Speaker 1: of the time, while corporate owned radio has reached for 710 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: the lowest common denominator of content over and over again 711 00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 1: despite having free speech. But as for what people are 712 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: going to do about that, one answer is to create 713 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: public radio, which means, of course, to talk about public radio, 714 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about a Buddhist, Catholic and Arco 715 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 1: Pacifist poet who spent his youth as a hobo and 716 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,760 Speaker 1: is mostly famous for being the godfather of the Beat poets, 717 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: even though he hated the beats of course, naturally, of course, 718 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 1: and to talk about that guy and public radio, we'll 719 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 1: do it on Wednesday. That's my Cliffhanger, very strange man, 720 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: coming soon. 721 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 2: I'm so excited. I kind of had a feeling that 722 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 2: all of the voices and stories behind public radio were 723 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 2: unique and interesting. But I'm happy to find out that 724 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 2: I was right. 725 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 1: Isn't it like it's interesting? I have this thing where 726 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,400 Speaker 1: whenever there's like a public good that seems obvious, like 727 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: libraries is my main example of this, I take libraries 728 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,880 Speaker 1: for granted, right, I'm like, well, of course we have libraries. Yeah, 729 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,280 Speaker 1: But the idea of trying to pitch the American public, 730 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 1: or specifically the American government on libraries today, if they 731 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 1: didn't already exist, would be impossible. Like, hear me out. 732 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,240 Speaker 1: Here's this place. It's like a store, but everything's free 733 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,279 Speaker 1: and you just have to bring it back. But if 734 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 1: you don't, it's not a big deal and you're not 735 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: going to get arrested for it. 736 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,719 Speaker 3: Like yeah, And they're like, so how do we make 737 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 3: money on that? Here's the thing, Like, you don't. It's 738 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 3: just for people. 739 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 2: It's just good for people. 740 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,800 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's studies that prove it makes the economy stronger. 741 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 2: I don't know a thousand percent. No, I mean, what's 742 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 2: more punk rock than the library? Shout out to my 743 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 2: public library. Not that long ago. I needed a soldiering iron, 744 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 2: and I only needed it for one small thing. I 745 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,400 Speaker 2: could have gone to Amazon bought it and then had 746 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 2: it just be junk around my tiny apartment forever. Yeah, 747 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,960 Speaker 2: I was able to borrow one from the public library. 748 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:44,839 Speaker 2: So they have a lot more than just books. They 749 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 2: have all kinds of things you could need. Yet I do. 750 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: It's such a good idea, and public radio is such 751 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 1: a good idea, you know, And it's yeah, it's one 752 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: of these things that I take for granted. I'm like, oh, 753 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: of course there's NPR everywhere, but then you realize that, 754 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 1: like in a lot of rural areas where I live, 755 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 1: NPR is like the only actual source of news, you. 756 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 2: Know, and when we I mean not to get on 757 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 2: my soapbox, but when hostile fascist administrations cracked down on that, 758 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 2: it's not an abstract thing. You are making it harder 759 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 2: for those communities to stay informed about what's going on. 760 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 1: Right totally, And yeah, rural communities, poor rural communities are 761 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,319 Speaker 1: going to be hit are already being hit incredibly hard 762 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 1: by the stripping of all public good. But obviously we 763 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,319 Speaker 1: don't care about the present here. This is totally just 764 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 1: a history show we totally don't do this so that 765 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,759 Speaker 1: people are aware of how hard everyone had to fight 766 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:39,520 Speaker 1: to have the good things and how hard we should 767 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 1: fight to keep them. 768 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:42,920 Speaker 2: And how easily they can be taken away if we 769 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,000 Speaker 2: don't really protect them intentionally. 770 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 1: That part I didn't. I also took for granted as 771 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,800 Speaker 1: a kid, you know, I took all that for granted. 772 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:56,400 Speaker 1: But I don't anymore. Yeah. Same anyway, Well, you got 773 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: anything you want to plug here at the. 774 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 2: End, Yeah, you can listen to my podcast on the 775 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 2: wonderful iHeartRadio Network. There are no girls on the internet. 776 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 2: Please check it out. 777 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 1: Hell yeah, what else should we shout out? There's now 778 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 1: new feeds for a whole bunch of the shows on 779 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,640 Speaker 1: cool Zone Media, including cools on media, book Club now 780 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,239 Speaker 1: as its own feed. If you want to hear me, 781 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 1: read you stories, and ian you guys think you want 782 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:20,959 Speaker 1: to plug? 783 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:22,719 Speaker 3: No, you nail that. I was going to call out 784 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:24,759 Speaker 3: the feeds, but you beat me to it. So yeah, 785 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:30,399 Speaker 3: we're great. Just a great episode and keep enjoying the content, people, and. 786 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 1: I'll see you all on Wednesday. 787 00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 3: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of 788 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:37,239 Speaker 3: cool Zone Media. 789 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,240 Speaker 2: For more podcasts and cool Zone Media. Visit our website 790 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,040 Speaker 1: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 791 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 1: I'm a Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.