WEBVTT - Trump Ends Trade Talks With Canada, Threatens to Set Tariff 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:10.760 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg Business Week, 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:14.680 Daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:18.799 ahead with insight on the people, companies, and trends shaping 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:23.760 today's complex economy, plus global business finance and tech news 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:27.840 as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast with 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:31.760 Carol Masser and Tim Stenebeck on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:36.599 Carol, we got some good news from a framework with China, right, 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:39.040 We heard some details from that today. We heard details 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:42.480 last night on Bloomberg from Scott Besant. Kind of tough 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:43.360 to keep track of it all. 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:46.040 Yeah, exactly, So maybe two steps forward, two steps back. 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:48.519 I don't know how you kind of gauge this, but 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:50.640 Josh Wingrove has to keep track of it all and 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:53.200 help us make sense of it. Bloomberg News Senior White 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:57.360 House correspondent. He is there in our Washington, DC bureau. Josh, 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:00.320 it's a lot today, but tell us abouts of all, 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:02.080 let's go to the bad news, because it does feel 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:05.160 like this is what's pressuring markets today, what's going on? 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:09.400 And what do you know about US and Canada's negotiations. 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:14.199 Yeah, the news here is kind of out of left field. 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:16.840 But Trump is taking issue with this Canada Digital services tax. 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.720 This has been like a long running thing and it's 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.920 not new, but the first payments are due next week, 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:25.360 is our colleagues in Toronto are writing about. And so 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:29.039 this is sort of kind of dovetailing with this news 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:32.160 today of some sort of G seven agreement on global 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:35.280 taxation and the Global minimum tax that Trump and the 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:38.920 Trump administration or sort of touting, you know, I don't 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:40.640 want to get too buried in the weeds. Essentially, Trump 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:42.560 thinks that the Canadians are pulling a fast one on 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:45.200 him more or less and proceeding with this at a 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:47.520 time when there's other questions about how they should be 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.720 taxing these kind of things. And that's what led to this. 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:53.720 And it's kind of a surprise because Canada was one of, 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:56.600 you know, a handful of countries that does not have 0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:59.440 a tarif deadline coming up right. They are not included 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:02.120 in the July ninth pause with a with about five 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:05.520 dozen countries and the EU set to face potential higher 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:09.880 tariffs on July ninth. China, Canada, and Mexico have always been, 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:12.040 or at least have lately been separate from that and 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:14.720 So the question here is what now The current Canada 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:16.440 tarif rate is twenty five percent, That is to say, 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.400 Trump's tariff on Canada is twenty five percent, but there 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.639 is a major exemption for goods traded under the USMCA 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:26.600 Trade Pact. So a blow of options here, I suppose three. 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:28.800 I guess one is this could be a bargaining tactic 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:30.680 and they could reach some kind of a deal to 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:33.440 Trump and seek to raise that rate that applies to 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:36.080 non USMCA goods, so from twenty five up to a 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:39.040 different number. For instance, he's previously doubled the rate on 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.919 stealing aluminum to fifty from twenty five. Or he could 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:46.040 try to claw back some of those exclusions on USMCA trade. 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:47.480 I think that third one. We get a lot of 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:51.160 blowback from American industry, in particular the auto industry, who 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:53.640 you know, were relying on these pretty integrated supply chains 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:55.760 and saw those exclusions as pretty key. But this is 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.800 a pretty explosive development here. Of course, just you know, 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:01.440 barely over a weeks the G seven when Trump and 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.079 Prime Minister Carney of Canada seemed to strike a pretty 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:07.560 upbeat tone. But Tuesday is Canada Day. You know, this 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.120 is not a way to celebrate. I guess the Canadians 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:13.560 are going to be upset by that. But we'll see. 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:14.000 We'll see. 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:18.720 It's Friday, Josh. A lot can happen between now and 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:19.480 Canada Day. 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:20.000 Okay. 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:25.760 I want to go into some details here. This a 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:28.160 group of twenty one US lawmakers wrote to President Trump 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.040 earlier this month asking him to push for the taxes removal. 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:33.840 This tax is similar, as you mentioned, to one implemented 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:36.840 by some other countries, including the UK. It's equal to 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:39.760 three percent of the digital services revenue that a firm 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:43.440 makes from Canadian users above fourteen point six million dollars. 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:45.720 So this would apply to companies such as meta platforms 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:49.240 and alphabet You know, I want to zoom in on 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:51.240 what you said was sort of option number one here 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:54.320 the negotiating tactic. Is this the art of the deal, 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:57.240 because we've seen the President do this repeatedly over the 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:00.840 last few months. You can remember what happened on so 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.119 called Liberation Day and the way that he backed away 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:05.040 from some of those tariffs and put a pause on him. 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:06.920 But he did get some countries to move. 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:11.280 Yeah, that's right, and we could be seeing that here. 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:14.080 I should note also, the Canadians thought there was like 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:16.120 a thirty day clock, or at least they said so 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:18.520 on the heels of that G seven meeting that were almost, 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:21.479 you know, halfway through that thirty days. So Canada wanted 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:24.800 some kind of a deal within thirty days, not only 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:27.400 on that twenty five percent and the exclusion for USMCA, 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:31.240 but the other sectoral tariffs, in particular autos, steel and 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:34.600 aluminum and the impact those could have. Trump has exempted 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:38.000 USMCA autos but may still tariff auto parts that are 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:40.960 USMCA compliant. That's gonna be a big deal for the Canadians. 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:43.400 So they're looking for some kind of grand bargain here, 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:45.760 and I think you if it is option one, if 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:48.360 this is a bargaining tactic, Trump is putting another thing 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:51.320 on the table here and saying this has to be 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:54.200 part of any sort of grand bargain. Prime Minister Carney 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:57.880 has been less quick than his predecessor Trudeau to hit 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:01.479 with counter tariffs. He's been much more measured. But the 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:03.400 flip side of that is he that has room to 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:05.360 do them if he wants to. So the Canadians right 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:08.320 now have been silent. Last I checked in response to 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:11.600 the President will see where it goes. But you know 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.160 this this that he could be looking for leverage here. 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:16.919 But the deadlines here are really kind of you know, 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:19.960 made up. Trump'ss seven days, but there's nothing holding them 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:21.720 to that. He doesn't have to do anything within seven days. 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.000 The Canadians have said thirty but likewise there's nothing holding 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.279 them to that. As opposed to the other countries. The 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:29.480 July ninth stuff that is in that is on the books, 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:32.239 those terrafts are going up on July ninth unless Trump 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:33.880 does something to change it. So those ones are a 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:35.440 different sort of landscape. 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:37.880 Well let's go there. 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:39.800 Because the EU and the US believe they can reach 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:42.720 a trade agreement before that July ninth deadline, that's when 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:45.119 the US is set to impose a fifty percent tariff 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:47.040 of nearly all EU products. 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:53.279 That seems like maybe a very positive sign. Is it 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:55.000 a positive sign? Because that's a big one. 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:58.440 It seems to be a positive sign. We've got on 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:01.919 the record comments from Hower Lattin sort of striking an 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:06.279 upbeat tone about it. Our colleagues Alberto Nadeli and Jorge 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.520 Valero and in Europe have some reporting today on the 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.800 European view of it. They sound equally optimistic. What's not 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:14.520 clear is are they are they reaching kind of what 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:17.000 like a China deal, like a framework type of deal, 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:19.800 you know, a pathway kind of deal, or are they 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:23.200 actually getting down to brass tacks and getting something more comprehensive. 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:25.640 That's not clear. And today we've had comments both from 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:28.760 Trump and Bess and Secretary Bestident of the Treasury, sort 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:32.160 of signaling a two tiered approach. Best saying, look, we've 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:35.960 got like twelve ten, eighteen something like that, big training partners, 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:39.000 and they might look to wrap that up by September first, 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:41.279 he said, Labor day. And that raises the prospect of 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:44.200 extensions for some countries. Bigger countries may be ones that 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:47.040 are making headway. On the flip side, it's about five 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:50.000 dozen countries in total that are facing a terrified and 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:53.159 Trump said today, look, you know, I might even raise 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:55.279 them before July ninth. We don't expect that, but he 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:57.400 sort of threw it out there, and he said that 0:06:57.480 --> 0:06:59.760 he kind of wants to do maybe even twenty five 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:01.560 percent and tariffs and it's best and it's nicer than 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:03.240 him and Veston doesn't want to do it. And so 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:06.279 right now we've got this sort of multi track thing. 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:08.320 Right You've got a group of countries that maybe are 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:11.720 smaller trading partners that are facing a July ninth deadline, 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:13.720 and Trump is signaling that he might want to put 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:15.720 a higher tariff on them. Then he threw out the 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:18.480 number twenty five percent today, up from the baseline ten. 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:21.040 Then you've got other ones, presumably including the EU, that 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:23.440 will either reach a deal or maybe get an extension, 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:26.840 you know, with talks continuing throughout the summer. Then you've 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:29.400 got the China situation. They put some ink to paper 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:31.400 a couple of days ago on their framework, but there's 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:34.119 another deadline coming in August, so they'll be a fresh 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:36.400 sort of mile marker there. And then you've got the 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:38.920 Canada one, and I should add the Mexico one, both 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.320 of those not with firm deadlines, but now Trump pledging 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:45.480 something on seven days in Canada and Mexico separately, rumors 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:47.360 of some kind of field deal, and we don't know 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:49.080 where that stands right now. So a lot of moving 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:50.800 parts on this. Remember they talked about ninety deals in 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:53.040 ninety days. So far we have got like two, you know, 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:56.160 that are not necessarily full baked. So this is complex, 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:58.080 all right, complex stuff. But Trump loves tariffs. 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:00.680 Remember that, Josh, You're sitting down a dinner or you're 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:02.120 I don't know, at a bar with a front tonight 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:03.880 and they say, hey, are we making progress on trade 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:06.640 the United States? They actually getting something done and in 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:09.320 a good way? Do you say yes or no? 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:11.040 No one hangs out with me anymore because I just 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:13.360 talk about this stuff all the time. But I think yes. 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.400 I mean, that's is talking about I don't believe that September, 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:19.560 you know, so we could potentially it seems yes, they 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:22.960 could be. But remember Trump is clearly itching to want 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:26.880 to just send a unilateral number Liberation Day two point zero, 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:29.560 maybe a number not as high as the initial numbers 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:31.800 you put out, but higher than ten percent. And so 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:34.560 that combined with the fact that we still have more 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:38.839 sectoral tariffs coming, and the fact that he's demonstrated and 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:40.920 Chell for wanting to just raise them on his own, 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:43.800 like with stealing aluminum, the number of tariffs look like 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:45.880 they're going to go up, not down going forward. I 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:47.200 think the market should be aware of that. 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:51.840 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast catch 0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:54.600 US Live weekday afternoons from two to five Yes during 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:58.679 listen on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app, 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:02.480 or watch US Live on YouTube. 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:06.520 The Supreme Court getting ready to wrap up this term, 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:09.440 and they did come down with five different rulings. A 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:11.720 big one was the US Supreme Court limiting the power 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:15.959 of judges to block government policies nationwide. They did leave 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:18.960 unresolved to fight over President Donald Trump's restrictions on automatic 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:22.520 birthright citizenship. But this all gets to tim specifically, what's 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:24.840 going on in terms of presidential power. We did have 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:27.960 the President hailing the decision as a monumental victory and 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:30.360 said the administration would move to get blocks lifted on 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.360 a number of his policies. Here's the president earlier. 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:38.040 Thanks to this decision, we can now promptly file to 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:41.440 proceed with numerous policies that have been wrongly enjoined on 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:45.640 a nationwide basis. And some of the cases we're talking 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:50.560 about would be ending birthright citizenship, which now comes to 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:51.200 the fore. 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.280 That was President Trump just a little earlier today commenting 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:57.040 on this US Supreme Court limiting the power of judges 0:09:57.040 --> 0:10:01.360 to block some government policies nationwide. Let's bring in right now. 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:04.040 Harold Krant He's a professor of law at the Chicago 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:07.079 Kent College of Law, also the author of the book 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:09.920 Presidential Powers, Joining us to talk to these latest Supreme 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:14.479 Court decisions. That's exactly where I want to start, birthright citizenship. 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:17.800 This is something that during this term President Trump has 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:20.880 really gone after. What is your interpretation of what the 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.200 Supreme Court said today when it comes to what many 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:26.439 had deemed as a constitutional right of birthright citizenship. 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.360 The Supreme Court did not directly address the question of 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:34.800 whether the ban on birthright citizenship is constitutional or not, 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:38.320 and most observers think it's not, but the Court refused 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:41.120 to wave into those waters. Instead, what the court held 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:45.240 was that the courts below aired in issuing the nationwide 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:50.440 injunction against the executive ordered by President Trump. Certainly this 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:54.080 is a victory in a sense for presidential power. It 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:58.800 denies a court the ability to enjoin a president nationwide. 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:03.400 While the resident on his or her behalf can obviously 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:06.280 affect the nation with one fail suit, as President Trump 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:09.160 has with all these executive orders. Now the attacks will 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:10.720 have to be the piecemeal fashion. 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:13.199 So what does this mean then? 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:17.640 I mean, does this in any way embolden President Trump 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:19.720 potentially to move on. 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:21.400 I just I guess what I'm trying to do is 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:23.240 carry this out. What other actions might. 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:28.080 Come forward, you know, when the Supreme Court comes back 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:29.520 that kind of the next turn that they might need 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:31.520 to be addressing, like what does this do in terms 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:35.160 of enabling him to move forward on maybe different initiatives 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:39.079 that maybe before this ruling he might not have done. 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:45.160 So there are a number of maybe ten twelve nationwide 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:48.360 injunctions that are in place right now in terms of 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:54.600 stopping President Trump from cutting funding for various initiatives, stopping 0:11:54.679 --> 0:12:00.599 him from firing federal employees, stopping him from reassigning employees. 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:04.080 And right now those will no longer be binding. 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:07.920 They're only binding to the extent that plaintiffs were properly 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:11.400 situated in the court. In other words, those people who 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:14.920 filed suit will get the benefit of the injunction, but 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:18.880 no one else. So, holding back to birthright citizenship, that 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:23.200 all those who joined the case as plaintiffs challenging this 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:26.360 policy will still get the benefit of the injunction. But 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:29.960 the fear is that after thirty days, if those plaintiffs 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:34.520 other than those plaintiffs the president may try to strip 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.680 citizenship and remove people from the country because they're no 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:39.440 longer protected by the injunction. 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:42.320 The natural response. 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.960 Should be either to file a class action or perhaps 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:49.120 to have state suit on behalf of their citizens. We 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:51.000 don't know if that will be successful or not, but 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:54.960 that will be the important reaction to the Supreme Court's 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:59.040 decision today. So all litigation will have to go now 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:03.960 more in a radic fashion to counter the presidential assertion 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:07.400 of authority. And only when all courts have spoken, or 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:09.920 at least when the Court is spoken, well, can the 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:12.800 presence policy be stopped across the board. 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:15.640 You know, I want to follow on Carroll's question a 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:18.520 little bit, Professor, and talk about presidential power and the 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:24.319 consolidation of presidential power. How does this court, these nine justices, 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:27.240 how do they seem to define the power of the 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:31.440 president in a historical context of the presidential power that 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:35.280 we're traditionally used to as Americans with three co equal 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:36.199 branches of government. 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:41.439 Yeah, obviously we've seen a shift here. It's shown in 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:44.680 various ways. It's shown in the fact that the Congress 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:48.640 no longer apparently has the power to limit the president's 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:52.800 ability to fire whoever he wants to in the administration, 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:56.160 and that's been true of these agencies such as the 0:13:56.240 --> 0:14:00.560 National Labor Relations Board, the Federal Trade Commission, and many more. 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:04.160 It shows up in the fact that, again in this case, 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:08.480 that courts can't order in junctions nationwide against presidential policies 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.320 that they find illegal. And it's shown up, of course 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:14.360 in the presidential immunities case last year. Would suggests that 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:18.080 to a scary extent, not fully, but to a scary extent, 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:22.600 presidents are above the reach of the criminal law. So 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:26.520 in all these facets, we're seeing more that the court 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:30.400 is embracing a more powerful president at the expense of 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:33.240 Congress and even the judiciary itself. This is not to 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:36.040 say that Congress doesn't have levers. It's just that Congress, 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:38.800 as we know, it's not using whatever levers that it 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.400 still has remaining to it. And that's again and boldening 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:44.360 the president to taking even more power. 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:47.920 All right, So you wrote the book of presidential powers. 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:50.600 We're talking about this what this decision means. And I 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:54.080 just wonder so, and maybe this isn't you're Beliwick, but 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:58.520 I do wonder, professor, whether we need to rethink kind 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:00.880 of government in terms of balance of We thought these 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:03.840 three branches would just do it. It worked for a 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:06.760 long time, it seemed to, and yet now we're seeing 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:08.760 it come undone. And to be fair, this isn't the 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:11.760 only administrative stration that has used a lot of executive orders, 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:15.760 but it does seem like the presidential position has gotten 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:19.920 a lot more powerful. So are there changes in our 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:22.960 government that you see need to be forthcoming, including the 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:23.840 judicial branch. 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:26.680 I mean it's possible. 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:29.480 I think that what most people think is that the 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:33.080 first step would be a reawakening of the legislative branch. 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.560 We always thought that the legislative branch was the most powerful, 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.360 at least intrinsically the most powerful, and that's certainly what 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:43.080 people thought at the framing when our country was formed. 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.480 But Congress has taken a back seat, and it's allowed 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:49.160 the president to seize more and more authority tariffs as 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.320 a perfect example, and hasn't fought back over TIFFs. It 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:54.840 hasn't bought back over the you know, the question of 0:15:55.000 --> 0:16:00.200 sending migrants to third countries. It could it should think 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:04.080 that what we asserted the kind of by reasserting Congress 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:06.120 into the mix, I think it would be a more 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:11.560 healthy separation of powers balance to our government. So you know, 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:15.520 that would be the most logical wish list is for 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:18.600 that to happen. I don't know if it will. Congress 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.400 is not so far. Maybe it's going going to happen 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:24.200 with this big, beautiful bill, but you know, Congress hasn't 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:26.880 really seized the reins and tried to assert itself in 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:27.480 this mix. 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:30.880 This one really has to do with what, if anything, 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:34.560 we learned from the justices and the discussion among the justices. 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:37.520 I know, people are still making their way and learning 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:40.360 about what was decided and what came out at the 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:42.760 Supreme Court today, what we learned about the Supreme Court, 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:45.040 But did we get any insight in the way these 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:49.120 different justices have approached presidential power. That differs today than 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:52.720 we've learned in recent months, ter in recent weeks. 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:54.760 A little bit. I mean, the court is still fractured. 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:58.840 There's still obviously a very very conservative wing and a 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.920 liberal wing and a couple of that we call swing 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:06.040 justices that will change. And so the configuration of the 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:09.960 court was different. Two delegation cases, the challenge of the 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:13.639 eight billion dollars of subsidies that the SEC gives us 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:19.280 to rural areas and to schools, where three justices conservative 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:23.920 justices dissented, but the remaining judges, the liberal judges and 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:26.919 the middle judges came together. And that was true in 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:31.840 another delegation case to an agency as well. In that 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:34.200 case there was a delegation to a group to side 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:37.960 what preventative care services must be funded by an insurance company. 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:40.639 So those are just two important cases where the middle 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:45.119 held out. But in terms of overall, I think the 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:48.680 issue that we could see, particularly from this the injunction case, 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:51.960 you know, is that the majority of the court is 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:57.520 content to have a very strong president over atop the 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:00.399 government with very few guard wheels. And that's what we 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:03.199 have to watch and that's what we're concerned about. And 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:06.520 now that these nationwide injunctions will be dissolving, we'll have 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:10.800 to see if the president moves vigorously and rapidly to 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:14.440 try to carry out his policies despite the possible very 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:18.959 very negative impact on people like wirth right citizenship for instance, 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:21.639 or federal workers who've been fired and so on. 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:26.679 Yeah, I would expect you there's gonna be a lot 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:29.200 more discussion debate about this going forward on both sides 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:32.920 of the political aisle. Perhaps Harold Crenn, thank you so much. 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:35.160 He is professor of law a Chicago, Kent College of Law, 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:37.560 author of the book Presidential Powers. Joining us once again, 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:40.560 joining us several times here on Bloomberg. We're grateful to 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:41.960 his analysis. 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:47.280 This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Listen live 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.560 each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Applecarplay and 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.600 Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:57.399 listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:00.600 Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:03.840 Alan McCartney's with us. 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:09.520 She's managing director and at also private wealth management at UBS. 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:11.560 She is working, and. 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:13.800 We're curious to see what she gets out of this event, 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:16.159 like when you come here help Hello, Yes, what do 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:17.040 you get out of an event? 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:17.560 Like you said this? 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:23.560 So UBS and I traffic at the intersection in liquidity 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:26.440 events and in individuals, and so what does that mean? 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:30.160 That's entrepreneurship and so one of the beautiful things about 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:32.359 this event and about our partnership with it is Michael 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.280 Lobe opened by saying, this is a celebration of entrepreneurs 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:38.440 and entrepreneurialism. Right. And so if you go through all 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:41.240 of the things that are happening in our world today, 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:44.720 all of the trends, deglobalization being a big one. 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:45.360 Right. 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:49.600 Where does wealth come from in this country? It's intellectual property. 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:53.800 It is six million businesses founded last year. It is 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:58.960 being at these events and having funders and founders meet, 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:04.000 providing very valuable networking opportunities and for us to be 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:07.760 able to be supportive of that community full stop is 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:09.880 really the bread and butter of what we do at ubs. 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:13.720 Does it give you new opportunities to bring new money 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:16.720 into your firm or is it more like okay, when 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:20.880 I'm allocating my client's assets. Yeah, I'm thinking about these 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:24.960 alternatives because I talked about these types of businesses with 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:26.160 people at this conference. 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:27.919 So yes, and yes, I would say there are three 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:30.760 things it does. It is certainly, you know, a prospecting, 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.840 right rich environment in terms of there are people here 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:37.159 who obviously we know the numbers of the success of 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:40.000 startups and franchises, but some of these people are going 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:43.520 to be the next unicorns, right, So there's that. The 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:48.160 second is it allows me to learn about AI or 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:51.359