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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Norri

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Speaker 1: with you. Jason Louve back with US journalist has covered surveillance,

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Speaker 1: international trade, and the dark side of technology for Vice News,

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Speaker 1: Boing Boing, mother Board, and many more. As a futurist

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Speaker 1: and strategist, Jason has worked on buzz Aldrin's international campaign

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Speaker 1: to colonize Mars. Buzz, as you know, was the second

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Speaker 1: human to walk on the moon, Google's Artists and Machine

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Speaker 1: Intelligence program. He has also spent more than twenty years

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Speaker 1: engaged in firsthand intensive research into the world's esoteric spiritual

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Speaker 1: traditions and has empowered thousands of people through his online school,

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Speaker 1: Magic Magick dot M And Jason, welcome back, my friend.

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Speaker 1: How are you? Yes, Hello, it's wonderful to hear you,

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Speaker 1: hear your voice again. Thank you for having me up.

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Speaker 1: It's always a pleasure. You always do a great job

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Speaker 1: for us. And how's the book John d in The

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Speaker 1: Empire of Angels doing you wrote several years ago. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's going strong. It's been a few years, but the

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Speaker 1: interest is still strong. This is a topic that it

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Speaker 1: is a book about the sixteenth century, so this is

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Speaker 1: a topic that will be perennially interesting to people. The

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Speaker 1: because of what it's really about is the birth of

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Speaker 1: the occult in holl And magic and that is something

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Speaker 1: that I am a tremendous advocate of. I am an

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Speaker 1: advocate of magic, the occult, spiritual liberation, tripping out, tripping

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Speaker 1: the light, fantastic, having fun, evolving the human race, and

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Speaker 1: looking go to all do anything. So you don't believe it.

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Speaker 1: You don't believe it's evil, do you. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm all for it. You know, it's like

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Speaker 1: magic is one of those things in life that people

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Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of like being scared to jump

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Speaker 1: off the diving board when you're when you're a kid,

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Speaker 1: it's terrifying when you're walking up to it, but then

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Speaker 1: it's super fun when you jump off. And there's so

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Speaker 1: many things in life like that. And and I'm glad

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Speaker 1: you asked that, because you know, there's been a very

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Speaker 1: anti magic kind of narrative. There's people get into conspiracy,

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Speaker 1: they're afraid that somebody's under their bed, someone's around every

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Speaker 1: corner somehow using the dark arts to control them, and

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Speaker 1: that's not the case. And I think that what magic

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Speaker 1: really is is a set of tools that we've inherited

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Speaker 1: from spiritual traditions and shamanic traditions and wisdom traditions from

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Speaker 1: all over the world, from every culture, whether it's esoteric

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Speaker 1: Buddhism or yoga or tarot or any of these things,

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Speaker 1: there are tools for waking up and taking control of

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Speaker 1: our own life. So I think when people get super

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Speaker 1: down the conspiracy rabbit hole, they start looking for reasons

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Speaker 1: why they don't have control of their life. And if

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Speaker 1: you look for those reasons, you're going to find them.

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Speaker 1: And I say, look for reasons to have control of

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Speaker 1: your life, look for reasons to have power. And I

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Speaker 1: certainly in the last two to three years, like I'm

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Speaker 1: sure everyone, have felt powerless many, many, many times, with

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Speaker 1: a horrible feeling. And it's a horrible feeling to feel that,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe people who don't have your best interests

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Speaker 1: in mine actually are making trying to make decisions for

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Speaker 1: you control your life. It sucks. Nobody needs me to

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Speaker 1: tell them that. Um what I'm hopefully here to do

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Speaker 1: in life and with my writing and with my school

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Speaker 1: Magic dot me and hopefully, which is mg ic K

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Speaker 1: magic spelled with a K to distinguish it from from

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Speaker 1: stage magic ic K do. What I'm here to do

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Speaker 1: is remind people that they're in control and these techniques

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Speaker 1: will work for them to wake up and have fun

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Speaker 1: and take control of their life and most of all,

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Speaker 1: to become the person that are truly destined to be.

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Speaker 1: And I think that hopefully I can hopefully people people

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Speaker 1: dig that. You know absolutely, Jason, how did you get

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Speaker 1: interested in all this? When I was at Nager, I

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Speaker 1: was very, very very skeptical and cynical, and I saw

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Speaker 1: all the books on magic and vehicles in the bookstore

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Speaker 1: back when we had borders and barns of noble and

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Speaker 1: chain bookstores, and I wanted to disprove it so that

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Speaker 1: I didn't worry about that anymore. So I got some

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Speaker 1: of the books, started doing some of the exercises, and

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Speaker 1: lo and behold, it started working. And when I say working,

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Speaker 1: I mean as anyone who's done this stuff can tell you,

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Speaker 1: people have very similar experiences. When they started doing this.

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Speaker 1: They'll get, you know, synchronicities, meaningful coincidence is happening all

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Speaker 1: the time. Their dreams will come alive they'll start having

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Speaker 1: very meaningful dreams. They'll have moments and flashes of insight

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Speaker 1: or I think what people nowadays liked to call downloads

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Speaker 1: from the universe, and it suddenly feels like the a

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Speaker 1: whole universe just comes alive and starts talking to you.

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Speaker 1: And that can be You know that that's a tricky

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Speaker 1: spot to be in because you don't want it to

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Speaker 1: get too seriously because then you can kind of get

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Speaker 1: lost in the weeds a bit. But it's like it's

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Speaker 1: like all of a sudden, the world goes on in

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Speaker 1: stereo and in color, when before it was black and

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Speaker 1: white and constricting. Anyone can do this, I mean you

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Speaker 1: can get any you know, I have all the stuff

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Speaker 1: on offering in my books and at my school, but

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Speaker 1: you don't need to go there. You can get a

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Speaker 1: book on magic by you know, some people like Peter

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Speaker 1: Carroll or even Elsta Crowley, some of the older magicians

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Speaker 1: that Golden Dawn, or even just the most basic I

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Speaker 1: mean they now now we have accessed everything. There's Tara

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Speaker 1: for Dummies books, there's astral projection books, there's this stuff

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Speaker 1: is all available. Just get a get a cookbook, get

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Speaker 1: a spell book, give it a shot, and I promise

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Speaker 1: you fascinating things will happen. It is, and the reason

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Speaker 1: that it's so exciting is that at not only is

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Speaker 1: it that the world comes alive, but it seems to

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Speaker 1: more and more the more you do. Magic sincerely guide

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Speaker 1: you in the direction of what magicians call their their

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Speaker 1: true will, which is discovering your true purpose, your true meaning,

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Speaker 1: the purpose, the person, the heroic person that you're meant

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Speaker 1: to be in this life, rather than checking out watching TV,

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Speaker 1: or zoning out on video games and drugs, or falling

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Speaker 1: into the fear narrative of the news, which is harder

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Speaker 1: to do with every day because these systems of control

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Speaker 1: as so good at keeping us docile. Would you call yourself, Jason,

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Speaker 1: a practitioner of magic and the occult or more of

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Speaker 1: a journalist? I would, well, I would call myself both.

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Speaker 1: But I will, one thousand percent, unabashedly, without reservation or shame,

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Speaker 1: call myself a practitioner of magic. I have my entire life.

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Speaker 1: I do it every days. It's real, it works, it's fun,

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Speaker 1: it's meaningful, it gives structure to your life, and it,

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Speaker 1: if I could say one thing about it, magic, just

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Speaker 1: like any I would say self directed spiritual practice, whatever

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Speaker 1: that is, is always there in the darkest moments, you know,

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Speaker 1: and I think in this current moment, when at least

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Speaker 1: in my lifetime it's never felt this dark and hopeless.

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Speaker 1: Just like every other time in my life where things

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Speaker 1: have fallen apart or seem hopeless, magic is always there.

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Speaker 1: It's a refuge for people, just like any spiritual path

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Speaker 1: in times of crisis, in turmoil. It give us your definition,

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Speaker 1: Jason of the occult. So a cult just means hidden, right,

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Speaker 1: And that's a really interesting one because people freak out

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Speaker 1: when they hear that name, don't they absolutely, But they've

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Speaker 1: been told to you know. It's like we've been conditioned

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Speaker 1: to not touch the cookie jar, is how I like

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Speaker 1: to put it. We've been condition right, We've been conditioned

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Speaker 1: by horror movies and books and to not touch the

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Speaker 1: cookie jar because it's supposed to be hidden. They have

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Speaker 1: to ask yourself, why is it hidden? Well, it's been

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Speaker 1: hidden from us for hundreds of years by um you know,

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Speaker 1: groups who want to keep it for themselves or even

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Speaker 1: like the royal family in England. You know that the

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Speaker 1: power of ritual and all of that, because they don't

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Speaker 1: want the common people to have it, because then they'll

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Speaker 1: have more power than they're supposed to do. So the

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Speaker 1: cole just means hidden and what what what? What has

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Speaker 1: been hidden? Is magic? Which are the techniques of spiritual liberation?

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Speaker 1: In your book John d and the Empire of Angels.

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Speaker 1: He lived in the fifteen hundreds died at sixteen o eight.

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Speaker 1: He was a massive mathematician, but he was an astronomer,

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Speaker 1: an astrologer and occult us. He did it all, didn't he?

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Speaker 1: He did? Yeah? And d is a fascinating figure for me.

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Speaker 1: He is in my mind certainly one of the greatest

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Speaker 1: magicians in history. And he was real. I mean he's

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Speaker 1: the original Double O seven. That was his code name

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Speaker 1: for the British Secret Service. And he was Queen Elizabeth,

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Speaker 1: the first essentially court wizard, court magician. These people have

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Speaker 1: existed all through history. They still exist, although they keep

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Speaker 1: them hidden. And his job was as the scientific and

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Speaker 1: occult consultant for the British, the British Empire. He is

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Speaker 1: the guy who came up with the term British Empire.

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Speaker 1: But he was fascinated would be it called? And he

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Speaker 1: spent ten years doing magic rituals to talk to Angels.

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Speaker 1: And it's from that time period that pretty much everything

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Speaker 1: we think of as Western occultism for those who are

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Speaker 1: more familiar with it, meaning Golden Dawn, Rosicrucianism, Freemasonry, all

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Speaker 1: of the stuff that comes pretty much from D's work.

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Speaker 1: And the more I researched him as part of my

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Speaker 1: own practice, the more I realized although everyone kind of

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Speaker 1: knew who he was, he was a totally they didn't

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Speaker 1: understand the full scope of why he was so important,

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Speaker 1: and he remained kind of an unsung figure, which is

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Speaker 1: why I wrote John D and the Empire of Angels,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of my massive biography of his work,

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Speaker 1: which is about John D. But it's also about magic,

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Speaker 1: and it's about the moment in our history in which

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Speaker 1: magic both re entered the world and was also hidden

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Speaker 1: and kept secret for the elite, because those techniques were

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Speaker 1: all practiced, for instance, by the British upper class for

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Speaker 1: hundreds of years after D, but it was a secret tradition.

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Speaker 1: They wanted to keep it hidden from the public, and

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Speaker 1: it was only in the probably the early twentieth century,

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Speaker 1: with the Golden Dawn and people like Crowley and Israel

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Speaker 1: Regardi of it, some of that stuff began to be published,

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Speaker 1: circulated and let out into the public. So how could

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Speaker 1: a guy who was around four hundred plus years ago

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Speaker 1: have such a handle and control over these things that

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Speaker 1: are going on now. Well, time is a funny thing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's like it's it's it seems like a

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Speaker 1: long time to us. But because that's a it's a

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Speaker 1: blink of an eye for for an angel perhaps, you know,

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Speaker 1: like in Hinduism they talk about the Palaya or they

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Speaker 1: talk about you know, Hinduism, and they talk about Maha

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Speaker 1: kalpas in a periods of time that are eighty four

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Speaker 1: thousand years, which is just like a blink of a

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Speaker 1: sleeping god. You know, it's just like it's a second

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Speaker 1: for them. So I think if you zoom out you

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Speaker 1: can see, I mean, we're still let me just to

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Speaker 1: make him more down to earth. You know, DA is

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Speaker 1: responsible for the British Empire. The British Empire is responsible

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Speaker 1: for the American Empire. You and I are living in America.

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Speaker 1: Probably most of the people listening to this live in America.

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Speaker 1: You know, Canada was originally supposed to be given to

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Speaker 1: John D. And John D is responsible for bringing geometry

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Speaker 1: for to the world for the first he introduced you

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Speaker 1: with geometry. He's responsible for laying the foundation for modern science,

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Speaker 1: which is created basically everything around us. So it's crazy

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Speaker 1: to me people think that magic isn't real. But when

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Speaker 1: you zoom out far enough and you look at what's

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Speaker 1: and you don't have to reconspiracy literature or occult literature

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Speaker 1: if you look at the actual history of how what

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Speaker 1: has happened in the world, and not the history they

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Speaker 1: teach you in high school. But even just get on

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Speaker 1: Wikipedia and look at you know, what has shaped some

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Speaker 1: of the most important parts of world history. It's all

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Speaker 1: they are playing to see. You know, we live in,

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Speaker 1: as Robert Anton Wilson put it, a reality that is

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Speaker 1: basically that the line at which rival shamans have fought

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Speaker 1: to a standstill. Is there a distinct difference, Jason, between

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Speaker 1: magic and a cult. No, I use them interchangeably. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they're almost the same thing, aren't they. They're basically the

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Speaker 1: same thing. Occult has a slightly sinister connotation, a little

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Speaker 1: bit more sinister than magic. I when I hear magic,

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Speaker 1: I just think very colorful and creative expression. But I

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Speaker 1: use them in one sentence. Magic in me a cult

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Speaker 1: because it's just clear to people what it is. If

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Speaker 1: I say magic, then I kind of have to explain, well,

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Speaker 1: it's not stage magic. It's okay, this is what it is.

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Speaker 1: When I say a magic in a cult, I feel

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Speaker 1: people immediately get what I'm talking about. I agree with

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Speaker 1: you there, And yet some people will have scary thoughts

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Speaker 1: about both, won't they Absolutely and and that's certainly understandable

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Speaker 1: because magic is a path leads you not to I

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Speaker 1: think if people might think some type of seduction to

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Speaker 1: the dark side or something like that. What it does

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Speaker 1: is it leads you into confrontation with yourself. It shows

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Speaker 1: you who you are. It shows you maybe parts of

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Speaker 1: yourself that you don't want to see. You see your

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Speaker 1: own when you practice magic. You see both your own

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Speaker 1: highest potential, who you could be that you're not currently,

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Speaker 1: but you also see your lowest potential. You see all

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Speaker 1: the parts of yourself that are not as good as

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Speaker 1: they could be, or your shadow aspect right as you

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Speaker 1: would put it. And that process of self confrontation, however

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Speaker 1: it's done through magic or psychotherapy, which is actually very

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Speaker 1: similar in many ways, is you know, it goes without

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Speaker 1: saying something that makes people very uncomfortable, and perhaps makes

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Speaker 1: people more uncomfortable as they get older. I think that,

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Speaker 1: I would say, just because we have more baggage as

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Speaker 1: we as we go on. So I think that's that's

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Speaker 1: really underneath. When people get a real sense of magic,

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Speaker 1: if it's not a Hollywood thing, I think they have

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Speaker 1: a They get a little whiff of that of the

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Speaker 1: amount of work it is, and it will lead them

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Speaker 1: into contact with things that are scarier than the dark

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Speaker 1: lord or the monster under the bed. It will lead

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Speaker 1: you into the all meeting all the parts of yourself

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Speaker 1: that you're ignoring, and that can be quite frightening for people,

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Speaker 1: but certainly not dangerous or spiritually perilous or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: If anything, magic is another path to God, it absolutely is.

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Speaker 1: It's tied right in with the history of Christianity. Most

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Speaker 1: of what we think of as Western magic is an

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Speaker 1: outgrowth of one or another form of Christianity. There's magic

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Speaker 1: in the Protestant Church, there's magic in the Catholic Church.

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Speaker 1: There's magic in the Orthodox Church, in Judaism, in Sufism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism,

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Speaker 1: every single world spiritual tradition which is usually what we

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Speaker 1: look to when we think of, you know, guidance for

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Speaker 1: what is good, what is right, what is godly. The

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Speaker 1: magic is in all of these things, and magic as

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Speaker 1: a practice draws from all of them. So if that's

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Speaker 1: not good, I don't know what is. Do people use

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Speaker 1: magic on a regular basis and not even know it absolutely?

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Speaker 1: So you know, magic to be I guess precise about it.

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Speaker 1: Any intentional act, any will to act, is a magical act.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's like I decide that I want to

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Speaker 1: be known for talking magic, Well, you know, I better

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Speaker 1: start emailing out emails. Or it's like if I decide

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Speaker 1: to manifest a book, well I better start writing a book.

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Speaker 1: There's a ritual I need to do to write every day.

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Speaker 1: I need to email publishers, I need to make connections

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Speaker 1: in the publishing industry. I need to do a little

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Speaker 1: bit every day to get closer to my goal. That's magic.

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Speaker 1: Every decision that we make is magic. And I think

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Speaker 1: that magicians use the phrase will a lot capital w

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Speaker 1: will doing your will, willing something into reality, doing your

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Speaker 1: true will. And the more that I've thought about it

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Speaker 1: and dwell lived with that, my definition of will is

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Speaker 1: just a decision to make a decision to do something,

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Speaker 1: and I think that that is magic at its fundamental form.

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Speaker 1: So we're all doing magic all the time, but for

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Speaker 1: most people it's unconscious. And what magic as a specific

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Speaker 1: spiritual path does is use all these techniques like meditation, yoga,

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Speaker 1: and ritual and quite dramatic ritual, you know, big, colorful,

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Speaker 1: over the top, arcane ritual. Sometimes I mean we all

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Speaker 1: like to have fun. It trains that faculty. It trains

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Speaker 1: you to focus your mind on what you want. And

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Speaker 1: more than that, it forces you to ask the question,

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Speaker 1: what do I truly want with my limited time here

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Speaker 1: on Earth. So when magic is done right, and certainly

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Speaker 1: how I teach it at Magic dot Me, magic will

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Speaker 1: show you your true will, who you're truly meant to be,

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Speaker 1: and then we'll give you the discipline and the quote unquote,

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Speaker 1: the quote unquote power to become that person. And as

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Speaker 1: anybody who has practiced this for an extended period of

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Speaker 1: time knows, when you do that, it's like as Crowley

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Speaker 1: one time, but the universe basically has your back. It's magical, right,

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Speaker 1: It's magical a thousand percent. The universe becomes magical. The

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Speaker 1: universe loves people who want to participate. It loves people

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Speaker 1: who want to participate in the universal drama and live

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Speaker 1: up to the challenge and the question posed simply by

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Speaker 1: being alive. You know they being alive, the universe has

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Speaker 1: asked us, okay, step up, what would you like? And

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Speaker 1: when people consciously raise their hand step up to that process,

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Speaker 1: that's when true magic happens. Listen to more Coast to

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Speaker 1: Coast AM every weeknight at one am Eastern and go

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Speaker 1: to Coast to Coast am dot com for more