1 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 1: Hold on, here's the kitchen. Yeah, so this is so fascinating. 2 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: Some of it it's really structurally intact, but it's not. 3 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: So that's kind of where we just came from. That 4 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: window in the middle over there takes you to that 5 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: long hallway and then this is the kitchen. So you've 6 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: got the kitchen. You've got another outbuilding that looks like 7 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: it could have been in the eighteenth century, a carriage house, lumber, 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: shehd so storage, a dairy based on the ventilation privies in. 9 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 2: The back. 10 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: A well. 11 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 3: Historian and interpreter Nicole Brown is given me a tour 12 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 3: of Colonel John Chisel's home on East Francis Street in Williamsburg. 13 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 3: There are large bedrooms, many many ornate fireplaces, and several 14 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 3: outdoor buildings where enslaved people once toiled. Nicole says that 15 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 3: Chisel's house was the epitome of gentry, wealth and colonial Virginia. 16 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: It's a very large operation. So if you're this wealthy, 17 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: which I mean the Chisels are ultra wealthy, they're going 18 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: to have their own dairy. They're going to have their 19 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: own private wealth. They're going to have, honestly, those two 20 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 1: privies with the beautiful garden. That's the status symbol, right. 21 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: So all of this, especially now being inside this building 22 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: looks very simple on the exterior, but this screams ultra 23 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: elite gentry, Virginia wealth to me in a very profound 24 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: kind of way. 25 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 3: Seeing this house gives me historical context for the story. 26 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 3: Colonel John Chisel must have felt tremendous financial pressure in 27 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 3: seventeen sixty six to keep up with his family's lifestyle 28 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 3: their reputation in Williamsburg. I'll quickly summarize where we are 29 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 3: with this story. Chisel's son in law, John Robinson, had 30 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 3: recently died, and as his duplicity was revealed, it tarnished 31 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 3: the Chisel family name. That would have been devastating for 32 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 3: a member of the gentry in eighteenth century Virginia. 33 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: So the scandal starts to unfold, you know, around May 34 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,959 Speaker 1: people start to say, oh, I think the late speaker 35 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: may have been doing some things in the treasury he 36 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: shouldn't have done. 37 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 3: Less than one month after John Robinson's death, news of 38 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 3: his financial scandal was spreading across the colonies and then 39 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 3: across the Atlantic Ocean to England. The revelations that Robinson 40 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 3: had loaned hundreds of thousands of pounds to his friends 41 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 3: had alarmed the gentry, which were the top five percent 42 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 3: of the population. John Robinson and his cronies had broken 43 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 3: the trust of the other ninety five percent of the colony. 44 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 3: And then, because John Chisel was Robinson's primary business partner, 45 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 3: the scandal had become focused on him, the one who 46 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 3: had benefited the most from his son in law's fraud. 47 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 3: So in the summer of seventeen sixty six, John Chisel 48 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 3: was distraught, but he hoped that perhaps a visit to 49 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 3: his mines in the country would quell his concerns over money. 50 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 3: Like most upper class colonists, he was hopelessly in debt 51 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 3: and the rural mining operation represented promising income. It was 52 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 3: the afternoon of June third, seventeen sixty six, in western Virginia, 53 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 3: at a tiny tavern called Moseby's for reference. The tavern 54 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 3: was originally built as a small one room house by 55 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 3: Benjamin Moseby in seventeen forty, two decades earlier. He soon 56 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 3: began using it as a tavern, and when the County 57 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 3: of Cumberland was formed in seventeen forty nine, the tavern 58 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 3: served as the County's courthouse. It would later be used 59 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 3: as a staging area for George Washington's Continental Army during 60 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 3: the Revolutionary War, but just to be clear, Moseby's tavern 61 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 3: was small there. John Chisel's jovial conversation with Scottish merchant 62 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 3: Robert Rutledge had suddenly become tense. Chisel had used some 63 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 3: obscene language defined as somewhat liberal of oaths in the newspaper, 64 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 3: and the drunken Ruttledge scolded him for it. When Chisel 65 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 3: responded irately, Rutledge began to argue back and hiccup. He 66 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 3: was that intoxicated. John Robinson's descendant, Simon Robinson, reminds us 67 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 3: of Rutledge's station in life and why insulting Chisel was 68 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 3: such a mistake. In the seventeen hundreds. 69 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 4: Robert Rautledge, although he had done very well for himself 70 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 4: and had land and had done well in trade, he 71 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 4: wasn't of the right class. 72 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 5: He wasn't of the ruling class. 73 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 3: We hear a lot about the honor code, why duels 74 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 3: were declared, and why so many men died over insults. 75 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 3: Some of these insults were much more polite than what 76 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 3: we read on Twitter. By all accounts, Robert Rutledge seemed 77 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 3: to behave like a gentleman, but he was drinking that afternoon, 78 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 3: really drinking, and his confrontation with Chisel seemed out of 79 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 3: the ordinary. But keep this in mind, John Chisel was 80 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 3: not drinking, or at least not outwardly drunk. So why 81 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 3: did he react in such a vicious, vile way by 82 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 3: calling Rutledge a derogatory term for Scottish people. Historian Julie 83 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 3: Richter says that this was a case of toxic masculinity 84 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 3: in eighteenth century colonial America. 85 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, maybe part that it's somebody of a lower 86 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 2: social level, somebody from Scotland, So you've got that on 87 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 2: one side. Plus I'm a member of the elite. 88 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: You know. 89 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 2: I've read through this stuff multiple times again because it's 90 00:05:53,000 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 2: just such an interesting intersection of social level identity illinity. 91 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 3: Here's a reminder of where we are in the story. 92 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 3: John Chisel had just returned from his minds in western 93 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 3: Virginia when he stopped at Moseby Tavern for the afternoon. 94 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 4: Both men were in the tavern and with their respective friends, 95 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 4: and Chisel was in very high spirits, thinking that a 96 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 4: mining operation was going to be a solution to some 97 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 4: of his financial woes. So he was in very high 98 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 4: spirits but being very loud and rather obnoxious, and this 99 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 4: didn't go down well with rather drunk Robert Ratlich, who 100 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 4: effectively said, do you think you could tone down your language? 101 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 5: It's not befitting of this establishment. 102 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 3: Colonel Chisel swung around and glared at Rutledge. His entire 103 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 3: personality changed, anger flashed in his eyes. 104 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 4: This, of course, was a red rag to John Chisel, 105 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,039 Speaker 4: how dare you speak to me in this way? You're 106 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 4: a ghastly Scott and you're from a lowly stock. You 107 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 4: know you're not an aristocrat as i am, and you 108 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 4: may not speak to me in that way. This, of course, 109 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 4: with two men who had been drinking, escalated and drink 110 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 4: was thrown at each other. Chisel then followed it with 111 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 4: some fire tongs and a candlestick. Robert Routledge got hold 112 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 4: of a chair, possibly to defend himself. You could argue, 113 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 4: if there's candlesticks and firetongs coming at you. 114 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 3: Chisel screamed for the enslaved person who came with him 115 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 3: to retrieve a weapon from another room. 116 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 4: Chisel ordered his slave boy to get his sword. He 117 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 4: threatened death on the boy if he didn't obey his command. 118 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 4: I mean, it's difficult to understand that today this had 119 00:07:58,640 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 4: may have been an everyday occurrence. 120 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 5: But boy returned with the sword. 121 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 3: Rutledge was so intoxicated he needed the help of his 122 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 3: friend Joseph Carrington to drag him along towards the back door. 123 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 3: Carrington had the keys, but he fumbled with them as 124 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 3: he tried to unlock the door. To escape, Chisel charged 125 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 3: toward the table that separated them. The other men in 126 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 3: the tavern squinted in the hazy, smoky light from the candles. 127 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 3: They tried to stay out of the way, but there 128 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 3: was no place to go. The gentleman in the room 129 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 3: must have assumed that Chisel would just continue yelling that 130 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 3: eventually he would calm himself. That's not what happened. 131 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: So a lot of the other men in this room, 132 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: they don't assume that the sword's going to come out, 133 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: because the sword is in that other room that he 134 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: and Rutlige were supposedly supposed to be sharing. It's a 135 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: separate house, is what they say. But he threatens this 136 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: man servant so badly that he goes to get the sword, 137 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: and he brings it into the tavern room. Colonel Chisel 138 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: comes back out and says, get Robert Rutledge out of 139 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: this room. 140 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 3: Seething as Carrington struggled with the keys, Chisel baited Rutledge 141 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 3: by repeating the phrase Presbyterian fellow. Rutledge couldn't stop himself. 142 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 3: He smirked and replied that he was just as much 143 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 3: a gentleman as Chisel. Chisel became even more enraged at 144 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 3: this last insult. He screamed and gripped the sword. This 145 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 3: was the wrong thing for a Scottish merchant to say 146 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 3: to a member of the gentry that was certainly crossing 147 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 3: a line. Rutledge was so drunk that he didn't seem 148 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 3: to realize that he was in danger. He stepped toward 149 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 3: Chisel as Carrington desperately tried to draw him backward. The 150 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 3: colonel stood with the unsheathed sword in his hand. 151 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: It's probably a pretty long sword, you know. We're not 152 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: talking about a knife, we're not talking about a switchblade. 153 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: We're talking about something that might be a foot two 154 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: feet long. Right. It's a big, heavy object, and the 155 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: point of that kind of sword is that it's meant 156 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: to do damage. 157 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 3: The men in the tavern looked alarmed as the smoke thickened. 158 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 3: Some even left. 159 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: There's a scuffle. There's an altercation, you can see from 160 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: the diagram. They move from place to place around the room, 161 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: until eventually you have Colonel Chissel on one side of 162 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: a table, Robert Rutledge on the other. 163 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 3: Nicole just mentioned a diagram. She's talking about, an artist 164 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 3: rendering that someone drew of the crime scene, one that 165 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 3: was later printed in the newspaper. It actually became the 166 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 3: first crime scene diagram ever publicly published, the blueprint for 167 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 3: a document that is now staple in so many criminal cases. 168 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 3: Now the other men in the tavern became more involved 169 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 3: and tried to de escalate the whole thing. 170 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: Colonel Chisel is apparently being held back by both Moseby men, 171 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 1: and Robert Rutledge is being held back by a man 172 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: named Carrington, and a man named Swan is pushing him back. 173 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 3: The men stood across each other with a table in between, 174 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 3: with Chisels still bellowing insults at the Scottish merchant. They 175 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 3: were yelling just six feet away from each other. Colonel 176 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 3: Chisel was livid by this time, no one could stop him, 177 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 3: not even two large strong men. His hand tightened on 178 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 3: the grip of the sword. It was a weapon used 179 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 3: regularly by men in the gentry for protection while on 180 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 3: the road. 181 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 4: There was a bit of a dance around the tavern 182 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 4: with lots of words exchanged, people trying to intervene to 183 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 4: say calm down, calm down. And the final act happened 184 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 4: over a table where Chisel raised his sword and. 185 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 3: Then as Chisel's friend Samuel Swan stood in between the men, 186 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 3: Chisel lunged. 187 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: Forward and at this point Colonel Chisel's sword goes through 188 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: Swan's coat and into Reutledge's heart. He slumps down onto 189 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: Carrington and then down onto the floor. 190 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 6: His coat is pierced by the as it goes into 191 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 6: Robert Rutledge's heart. Robert Rutledge apparently goes immediately silent, is 192 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 6: caught by a man I think his name is Campbell 193 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 6: or something along those lines. 194 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 3: With just one thrust, Robert Rutledge was dead, slumped in 195 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:23,319 Speaker 3: Joseph Carrington's arms. A man grabbed John Chisel from behind, 196 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,959 Speaker 3: but it was too late for Robert Rutledge. Chisel pulled 197 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 3: the sword from Rutlige's body as the Scotsman gasped for breath. 198 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 6: And he dies right there in front of John Chisel, 199 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 6: who apparently shows absolutely, positively zero remorse. He says something 200 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 6: to the effect of I aimed at his heart and 201 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 6: I hit it well. 202 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:50,119 Speaker 3: First, Chisel said, he is dead, and I killed him. 203 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 3: The witnesses in the tavern reported that Rutledge died on 204 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 3: the spot, but that seems unlikely. A stab wound to 205 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 3: the heart would likely cause excessive bleeding and he would 206 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 3: have bled out at least That's what Paul Holes told me. 207 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 3: This was likely a very painful death for Robert Rutledge. 208 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 3: Witnesses say that Chisel looked at Samuel Swan. The men 209 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 3: had once been colleagues in the House of Burgesses. Swan 210 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 3: was also a member of the gentry, a gentleman like Chisel. 211 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 3: Chisel squinted at the hole in Swan's wool jacket. 212 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:24,959 Speaker 1: He doesn't ask at all ever about Robert Utledge, but 213 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: he does ask Swan about his coat. You know, is 214 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 1: your coat fine? It was not. 215 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 7: He could not be more connected to the powers that be, 216 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 7: to the establishment, and when he just casually murders this 217 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 7: man and he doesn't express any concern for Rutledge. Instead, 218 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 7: he asks if mister Swan was okay the sword went 219 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 7: through mister Swan's coat, did I injure him? 220 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 3: Chisel thought so little of the Scottish merchant that his 221 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 3: life was easily discarded by the gentry. That was the 222 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 3: message telegraphed inside the tavern that day in seventeen sixty six. 223 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 3: The room was quiet. Chisel seemed more concerned about the 224 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:13,959 Speaker 3: coat of a member of the gentry than he was 225 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 3: about a man dead on the floor of the tavern. 226 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 3: Chisel looked over at the enslaved person who had come 227 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 3: along on the trip, the one who had retrieved his sword, 228 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 3: and certainly must have been traumatized by all of this. 229 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 3: Chisel calmly and deliberately ordered him to take the sword, 230 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 3: dripping in blood, to another room. He told him to 231 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 3: clean it carefully and rub it well with tallow, which 232 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 3: was beef or mutton fat. Chisel was concerned that it 233 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 3: might rust. Then, while the body of Robert Rutledge lay 234 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 3: on the floor, Chisel did something extraordinary and frankly disgusting. 235 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 3: He ordered the tavern workers to make him a drink, 236 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 3: a big drink. 237 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 6: He sits and orders a bowl of punch, even though 238 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 6: there's a man whom he he has just outright murdered 239 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 6: laying on the floor. 240 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 8: Rutledge was drinking, but Chisel did not have a drink 241 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 8: until after the stabbing, at which time he calls for 242 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 8: a bowl of punch to calm his nerves. 243 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 3: I'm not sure if Chisel's nerves were frayed, but who knows. 244 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 3: He didn't seem contrite over any of this. He sat 245 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 3: on the floor of the tavern close to Rutledge's body, 246 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 3: drinking cupfuls of punch. He continued to bellow insults at Rutledge. 247 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 3: Chisel screamed, he deserves his fate. Damn him. I aimed 248 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 3: at his heart and I have hit it. 249 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 6: Anyways, He's sitting there and he continues, even though Rutledge 250 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 6: is literally dead on the floor, to hurl insults at 251 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 6: the man whom, prior to this evening everyone would have 252 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 6: thought was his friend. But you know, this man whom 253 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 6: he knew and cared for. 254 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 7: And at no point do any of the primary documentation 255 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 7: that survives indicate that he showed any concern for his 256 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 7: firstwhile friend, Robert Rutledge. They had known each other, they 257 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 7: had been friends previously. So just the kind of casual 258 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 7: murder of this individual. 259 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 3: Oh well, none of the men tried to move either 260 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 3: man for quite a while, but each witness noted where 261 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 3: they were and what they saw in the moment. 262 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: Nobody takes him out of the room. They eventually removed 263 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: Robert Rutlich's dead, bleeding body from the room. 264 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 3: So imagine this a room full of witnesses who just 265 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 3: watched a man murder another man over angry words. The 266 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 3: killer is sitting on the floor rapidly becoming intoxicated, and 267 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 3: no one is doing anything about it. Where is the law? 268 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 3: Why isn't anyone coming to arrest John Chisel for murder? 269 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 3: That's one of the controversies around this story. 270 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 6: I cannot help but believe that he was entirely confident 271 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 6: when he murdered Robert Rutledge that he would pay no 272 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 6: price for it, or at the very most, that he 273 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 6: might be charged with manslaughter. 274 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 3: Nobody him right now. 275 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 6: No, So you know in the period here, it's going 276 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 6: to be a magistrate who detains him anyway. So I 277 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 6: don't recall there being any mention of a magistrate being present. 278 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,120 Speaker 6: You as a as a free citizen, can arrest someone. 279 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 6: This is where we get the modern misinterpretation of what 280 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:31,479 Speaker 6: a citizen's arrest actually is. But you can, as a 281 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 6: free citizen of Virginia lay your hands on someone. That's 282 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 6: literally what an arrest is, to lay your hands on 283 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,120 Speaker 6: someone to detain them. But he's not going anywhere. It's 284 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 6: pretty clear he intends to stay. 285 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 3: Eventually, John Chisel would sober up, and when he did, 286 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 3: what would he say happen that day? Would he feel remorse? 287 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 3: Would he admit that he attacked an unarmed man in 288 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 3: a room full of witnesses? Would he acknowledge that Robert 289 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 3: Rutledge was innocent, an unwitting victim, and a terrible tragedy? Somehow, 290 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 3: I doubt it. Other patrons in the tavern had already 291 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 3: begun recounting their own versions of the story. Remember this 292 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 3: was a very small room with many witnesses, but a 293 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 3: lot of those people had been drinking for hours, and 294 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,120 Speaker 3: it might have been difficult for them to even make 295 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 3: sense of what they had seen. There was smoke billowing 296 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 3: from the fireplace, the light was dim because the room 297 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 3: was filled with candles. These were not good circumstances for 298 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 3: witnessing a murder. 299 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 8: Basically, if you go back to the scene of the 300 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 8: crime and we've done this, put all the people in 301 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 8: the room, put them where they were supposed to be 302 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 8: at certain times. Plus the lack of light with candlelight, 303 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 8: and at the moment that the sword actually pierces his heart, 304 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 8: anything could have happened. 305 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 3: Gisel's friends were already building a case a very specific 306 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 3: kind of defense. Self defense. 307 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: People sometimes try to excuse his behavior, saying, well, he 308 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: wasn't drunk. Other people try to say, well, well, we 309 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: don't know, but he's picking up every heavy object he 310 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: can find in this room to inflict damage. And I'm 311 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: sure I don't have to tell you anything. As I 312 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: think I've heard Paul Huls say before, anything can be 313 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: a weapon if used with proper force and intent. You 314 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: can make a candlestick a weapon. So now he's picked 315 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: this very sharp object, this very big, heavy object, that 316 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: is going to be his weapon. 317 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 3: But then there's the matter of where the weapon struck 318 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:40,360 Speaker 3: the victim. 319 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 8: Yeah, he was stabbed, it was a deliberate stabbing. 320 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 9: You. 321 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 8: He did not fall into the sword. There are people 322 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 8: who say that they saw Chisel lunge. There are people 323 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 8: who say that he didn't lunge, that he was holding 324 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 8: his sword out. Another thing that people don't consider is 325 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 8: again the size of the room. The table over which 326 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 8: these guys are arguing are just three feet five and 327 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 8: a half inches, you know, take a yard The sword 328 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,360 Speaker 8: was two and a half or three feet, I mean 329 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 8: the yardstick. 330 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 3: Eventually, John Chisel's friends, some of those in the tavern, 331 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 3: would offer the law this story. Chisel did snidely call 332 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 3: Robert Rutledge a Presbyterian fellow, which was an insult. Ruttledge 333 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 3: swung around, startling Chisel. Yes, Chisel was still holding the sword, 334 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 3: but then he felt threatened and he lowered the point 335 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 3: of his weapon and then held it without lunging forward. 336 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 3: Ruttledge was the one who had moved forward toward Chisel. 337 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 3: Because the Scottish merchant was drunk, he accidentally fell onto 338 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 3: the sword. It went through his heart and Chisel felt it. 339 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 3: He pulled out the sword and realized what had happened. 340 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 3: Chisel then told witnesses to take away Rutledge. It had 341 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 3: all been a horrible mistake. Chisel had not attacked Rutledge. 342 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 3: Rutledge had attacked him, and he had caused his own death. 343 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 3: It was self defense, but it was also an accident. 344 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 3: Chisel's friends admitted that Chisel had been extremely angry. If 345 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 3: Robert Rutledge had not verbally abused Chisel, they said, then 346 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 3: none of this would have happened. They were blaming the victim, 347 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:24,640 Speaker 3: which happens with both female and male victims. It's hard 348 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 3: to believe that this would be a valid defense, but 349 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 3: it was. This seems like an extraordinary amount of anger, 350 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 3: even for a simple insult, right. 351 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 1: And it's interesting because the first anonymous article published in 352 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:44,400 Speaker 1: the Gazette on July eighteenth, actually says that I'm paraphrasing here, 353 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 1: but essentially says, you know, while this is an insult, 354 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: you usually would let it go if it were a 355 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: friend or someone who's extremely intoxicated, of which Robert Bruttledge 356 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: apparently was both. Does this speak to Colonel Chisel's personality maybe? 357 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,640 Speaker 1: Does it also speak to the idea of how important 358 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: status is and having people stay in their place? I 359 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: think so. 360 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,199 Speaker 3: And here's what's complicated about this case. According to the 361 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 3: law and the Colony of Virginia, self defense could work 362 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 3: as a legal justification because technically Robert Rutledge threw the 363 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 3: first punch. He was technically the instigator, not John Chisel Rutledge. 364 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 6: By the letter of the law, he is the first 365 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 6: person to assault someone because he throws wine from his 366 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 6: glass onto Colonel Chisel. And according to the newspaper, I 367 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 6: think this is a quote some small part did land 368 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 6: on him, at least to some small part is which 369 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 6: I read and laughed. But Colonel Chisel returns the favor 370 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 6: by throwing a bowl of punch at mister Rutledge, and 371 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 6: then the two continue with their insults. So this is 372 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 6: a duel. I suppose it's a duel in the same 373 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,239 Speaker 6: way that someone might spit at someone else and that 374 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 6: person shoots them. Right. If it is a duel, it 375 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 6: is certainly an ill matched to duel. 376 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 3: As the story spread, the situation didn't strike most colonists 377 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 3: as self defense. Colonel Chisel was clearly the aggressor, and 378 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 3: Robert Rutledge was unarmed. This, said most colonists, was murder. 379 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 3: The people in the tavern that afternoon all declared it, 380 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 3: and they told the newspapers that John Chisel had stabbed 381 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 3: a local merchant. This case should have been easy to prosecute. 382 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 6: In theory, there is no case more open and shut 383 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 6: than this. There are multiple witnesses, they're all of good character. 384 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 6: The one person in the newspaper who is recorded as 385 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 6: countering what anybody says is a person who is known 386 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 6: to be of ill character and offers several versions depending 387 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 6: on who's listening to him at any time. 388 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 3: So the gentry in the Thirteen Colonies, it was not 389 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 3: open and shut. After all, being accused of murder was 390 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 3: scandalous and certainly not befitting of a member of the 391 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 3: higher class. 392 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 7: I don't understand why you're holding the accountable for this. 393 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 7: It seems to be Chisel's reaction to it. And I 394 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 7: think that kind of casual response to life of individuals 395 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 7: in the lower sorts, or at least stations in society 396 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 7: below yours, is pervasive. 397 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 3: And because that attitude was so pervasive among the elites, 398 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 3: something else began to happen organically. Some of them changed 399 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 3: their stories. The witnesses in the tavern began to side 400 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 3: with their own social class. Remember that on that day 401 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 3: the tavern had been filled with a mix of classes, 402 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 3: gentry people as well as merchants and servants and enslaved people. 403 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 3: Friends of Robert Rutledge claimed that John Chisel was the aggressor, 404 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 3: but the friends of Chisel said it was an accident. 405 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 8: It comes down to in the room. Those people who 406 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 8: again liked Rutledge or are on Rutledge's side, they have 407 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 8: one view, and the people who are on Chissel's side, 408 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 8: they have another view. 409 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 6: The expectation if you are born into a certain station 410 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 6: is that you will serve in the ruling class of Virginia. 411 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 6: And I'm speaking specifically of the gentry station. If you 412 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,120 Speaker 6: are a gentryman, especially if you are a first son, 413 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 6: if you are a property holder, it is your duty 414 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 6: to serve the people in your jurisdiction, and perhaps that 415 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 6: includes all of Virginia. 416 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 3: And John Chisel was a former lawmaker in the House 417 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 3: of Burgesses. 418 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 6: As a burgess, as if you're high enough in station, 419 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 6: as a councilman, as a magistrate, as an alderman, whatever 420 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 6: you know, vestryman, there you go, and well, here is 421 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 6: an example of somebody who is the highest in Virginia 422 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:04,400 Speaker 6: society behaving rather badly. And it gets a lot. 423 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 3: Worse, That's right, it does get so much worse. As 424 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 3: news about the murder began to spread, much of the 425 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 3: public became incensed. The papers described Chisel's nonchalant reaction to 426 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,440 Speaker 3: the stabbing. They detailed his abusive rantings toward the Scottish merchant. 427 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 3: The reporters concluded by declaring that John Chisel sat on 428 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 3: the floor of the tavern near Rutlich's body and got drunk. 429 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 3: Members of the elite seemed to gravitate toward Chisel's explanation, 430 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 3: but Simon Robinson says that the ninety five percent of 431 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 3: the colonists who weren't gentry were outraged. 432 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 4: The main altercation that led to the murder was a 433 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 4: man of lower class spoke to me in a way 434 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 4: he shouldn't have done. Now, when that is being read 435 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 4: by the general populace in the newspapers, I mean that 436 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 4: must have been enraging to read that. Then to see 437 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 4: that the families were intertwined, the Chisels and the Robinson's. 438 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 3: First John Robinson had stolen hundreds of thousands of pounds 439 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 3: from the colony. This had drilled Virginia further into debt, 440 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 3: and then his father in law had murdered a member 441 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 3: of the lower class and assumed he would face no consequences. 442 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 3: It wasn't a good look. 443 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 4: The financial scandal was blowing up, looking after his own, 444 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:54,439 Speaker 4: looking after his friends, looking after other rich people, and 445 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 4: as you say, linking that in with taxes that were 446 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 4: hurting or people. I think it was part of a 447 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 4: process which made the general public feel that these people 448 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 4: are not fit to governess. 449 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 5: We need change. 450 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 3: Nicole Brown says that this hadn't been the first time 451 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 3: that a member of the gentry had insulted or even 452 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 3: killed a white working class person. I make that distinction 453 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 3: because while enslaved people were certainly murdered, they weren't considered people. 454 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 3: But this murder felt different because of Chisel's reaction. 455 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: It's not to say that the ultra elite have not 456 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: commit crimes prior to this point, or used their privilege 457 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: or their nepotism to get what they want done in 458 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: the colony of Virginia. It's that I think he genuinely 459 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: didn't think he was going to be held accountable for it. 460 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 6: Virginia exists in a government system that relies on people 461 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 6: of a certain station behaving to a certain level of quality. 462 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 3: There had been miscarriages of justice before this case, and 463 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 3: there would be after. Two of the most famous men 464 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 3: in colonial America were killed in separate incidents, and their 465 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,719 Speaker 3: killers were both privileged. Both got away with murder because 466 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 3: of their status in life. John Chisel's wife's family, the Randolphs, 467 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 3: had been embroiled in countless scandals. One of the most 468 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 3: dramatic happened in seventeen ninety three, when Richard Randolph and 469 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 3: his wife Judith went on trial from murder. The wealthy 470 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 3: young couple had visited the estate of some friends and 471 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 3: took along Judith's younger sister, Nancy. Randolph had been living 472 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 3: with them for months before the trip. At the estate 473 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 3: in southern Virginia, Nancy became very ill, according to several 474 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 3: enslaved people on the property, but only Richard, her brother 475 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 3: in law, was able to attend to her. The next day, 476 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 3: all three Randolphs left the property, but later the rumor 477 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 3: amongst the enslaved people was that Nancy had been pregnant 478 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 3: by Richard, and when she gave birth that night, Richard 479 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 3: and his wife Judith killed the baby and disposed of 480 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 3: the body to keep the secret. Of course, Richard, Nancy, 481 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 3: and Judith all denied this, but Richard and Judith were 482 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 3: charged with murder. Thanks to the family's wealth. They were 483 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 3: defended by both Patrick Henry and John Marshall, he was 484 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 3: the future Chief Justice of the U. S. Supreme Court. 485 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 3: Both men argued brilliantly, and eventually Richard and Judith Randolph 486 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:41,479 Speaker 3: were acquitted. The enslaved people on the property swore that 487 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 3: there were remains of a baby there, but by Virginia law, 488 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 3: black people were not allowed to testify in a court case, 489 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 3: so it's likely that someone got away with murder. In 490 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 3: eighteen o six, one of the founding fathers was murdered 491 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 3: by a member of his own wealthy family. George With 492 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 3: will actually show up in the next episode of Chisel's story, 493 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 3: but forty years later, With would become suspicious as people 494 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 3: in his own household became violently ill after a visit 495 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 3: from his troubled grand nephew, seventeen year old George Sweeney. 496 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 3: When With himself also became ill, he suspected he was 497 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 3: being poisoned, but his physician said it was probably cholera. 498 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 3: With changed his will, removing George as one of the beneficiaries, 499 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 3: but now With was dying of what he believed was 500 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 3: arsenic poisoning. On his deathbed, With begged the doctor cut me, 501 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 3: which seemed to be a request for an autopsy. But 502 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 3: when the time came to do the autopsy, the physician 503 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 3: didn't use the correct test for arsenic and the results 504 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 3: were inconclusive. George Sweeney used his family's wealth to hire 505 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 3: well known attorneys when he was charged, and those attorneys 506 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 3: poked holes in the colony's case and he was acquitted. 507 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 3: Privilege is power in our courts. In seventeen sixty six, 508 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 3: the colonists who were angry and disappointed with John Chisel 509 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 3: were only comforted by the idea that a member of 510 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 3: the gentry would finally be forced to pay for his crimes. 511 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 3: John Robinson was dead, and so many other wealthy colonists 512 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 3: seemed to be above the law, but not John Chisel. 513 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 3: Not this time. He would not be able to escape 514 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 3: a trial, they believed, or the noose, So the wheels 515 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 3: of justice began to grind. A coroner examined Robert Rutledge's 516 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 3: body and made a determination. 517 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 6: So a coroner is called in. This is very important. 518 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 6: A coroner is called in to determine the cause of 519 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 6: the death. And the cause of the death is a 520 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 6: pierced heart, and by the testimony or the statements made 521 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 6: by the people around it is at the result of 522 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 6: a thrust from Colonel John Chisel. 523 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 3: It sounds like John Chisel was about to be charged 524 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 3: with murder. The coroner had declared that Chisel's sword had 525 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 3: been the weapon, but the coroner didn't declare it a murder. 526 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 3: That wasn't his job. His job was simply to declare 527 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 3: a cause of death. Now, let's return to the tavern 528 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 3: on the day of religious murder. 529 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: And they contact the sheriff of that county, who, if 530 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: my member serves me correctly, is Jesse Thomas. Jesse Thomas 531 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: is called to collect Colonel Chisel. 532 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 3: Chisel seems surprised as he was ordered to put down 533 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 3: the punch bowl and get off the floor. He was 534 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 3: walked out the door and immediately remanded to the county 535 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 3: jail while the sheriff interviewed witnesses. Chisel remained in jail 536 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 3: for seven days. That must have been incredibly upsetting for him. 537 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 3: So rarely had a member of the gentry even visited 538 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 3: at jail, let alone be imprisoned in one, but the 539 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,720 Speaker 3: owner of the tavern, Benjamin Moseby, kept Chisel well fed 540 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 3: as he sat behind bars, and even after sobering up, 541 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 3: he showed no signs of remorse for killing Robert Rutledge. 542 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 3: Sheriff Jesse Thomas used that week to investigate the case 543 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 3: against John Chisel. Surely Thomas must have been cautious and nervous. 544 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 3: The accusation of murder against a member of the gentry 545 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 3: would be unpopular, but so would the notion that a 546 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 3: killer had gone free. So Thomas was dutiful and thorough 547 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 3: as he collected witness statements. When the prosecutor read Thomas's notes, 548 00:34:54,400 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 3: they formally declared Chisel with feloniously murdering Robert Rutledge. There 549 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:05,360 Speaker 3: would be essentially a bail hearing in a nearby court. There. 550 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 3: Chisel insisted he was not guilty and demanded to be 551 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 3: released on bail. He sat in the examining court in 552 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 3: front of a panel of judges. Eight witnesses testified, including 553 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 3: the men who were standing closest to Chisel and Rutledge. 554 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 3: Some of them were Chisel's friends. They detailed the argument, 555 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,840 Speaker 3: the escalation of the abusive language, and then the stabbing. 556 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,720 Speaker 3: They were very matter of fact, though none would admit 557 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 3: that it was clearly murder. 558 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 8: And then he goes before the examining Court, which is 559 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,720 Speaker 8: held in the court or in the tavern. 560 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,319 Speaker 3: The President of the Court informed Colonel John Chisel that, 561 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 3: after careful deliberation, they would not allow him to be 562 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 3: released on bail. 563 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 6: There is no difference between peers or commoners as to bail. 564 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 3: Chisel seemed devastated and furious. This was a surprising turn 565 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 3: for him, as if being kept in a county jail 566 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 3: weren't demeaning enough. Now he could face a trial in Williamsburg, 567 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 3: where everyone knew him, and then he would also be 568 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 3: sent to wait in the jail in the city where 569 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 3: all of the gentry could see him. But the justices 570 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 3: really had no choice. 571 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 7: Wherever the accused crime took place. They're sent to Williamsburg 572 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 7: to stand trial here in the capitol before the general Court. 573 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 3: But Carson Hudson says there was likely another reason why 574 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 3: the justices sent him off. 575 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,399 Speaker 8: Basically, I'm pretty sure the justices there are going, oh 576 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 8: my god, let's get rid of this. Yeah, I said, 577 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 8: you know, bump them on up to the governor. Let 578 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,839 Speaker 8: the governor handle this. You know, we're nobody. 579 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 3: So soon John Chisel was loaded onto a carriage. Sheriff 580 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 3: Thomas held the examining Court's warrant as he ordered the 581 00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 3: driver to head towards Williamsburg. 582 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 6: So chisl is going to be brought here into the 583 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,239 Speaker 6: city to attend to the public jail until he can 584 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,280 Speaker 6: be tried at the court of Oya and Terminer. 585 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 3: John Chisel would be tried before the general Court, but 586 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 3: not before spending time in the city jail. There seemed 587 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 3: to be a real possibility that he could be convicted 588 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:26,799 Speaker 3: of murder, though self defense could potentially create some reasonable doubt. Regardless, 589 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,440 Speaker 3: he had never been in a worse crisis, but perhaps 590 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 3: there was some hope. After all, John Chisel did have 591 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:36,800 Speaker 3: some very powerful friends. 592 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 9: And what we see with this particular case is how 593 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 9: willing the guys in the status quo, the powerful, the 594 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 9: wealthy of the gentry are willing to go to protect 595 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,359 Speaker 9: one of their own because in protecting one of their own, 596 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 9: they're actually protecting their own system. They are able to 597 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,760 Speaker 9: sort of perpetuate it in part through closing ranks around 598 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 9: this guy. 599 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: So he's on his way to Williamsburg, right, this is 600 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:16,439 Speaker 1: a felony case. The coroners looked at it and said, 601 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 1: this guy's been murdered by a sword. And all of 602 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:26,240 Speaker 1: a sudden, the sheriff in question is intercepted by several 603 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: gentlemen of Williamsburg, also including his attorney, John Wales. 604 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:44,240 Speaker 3: On the next episode of tenfold more Wicked on exactly right. 605 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 9: Colonel Chisel. He is as gentry as they come. He 606 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 9: is kind of a jerk. No one seems to particularly 607 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 9: care for the guy, but is wealthy, well connected. 608 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 2: The public jail that you've been in is the place 609 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,400 Speaker 2: where anybody who committed a murder is to be held. 610 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:09,239 Speaker 2: I certainly cannot think of anybody who received the privilege 611 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 2: of getting to go back to his own house. 612 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 6: We're talking about somebody who outright murdered his friend, and 613 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 6: then his friends tried to give him a privileged position. 614 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 7: So you're beginning to see those fissures that I was 615 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,720 Speaker 7: talking about. The status quo is under siege. 616 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 9: And this bigger question always is is who's in charge, 617 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:43,680 Speaker 9: who matters, and who gets to make those decisions. 618 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,239 Speaker 3: If you love a good, real ghost story, my audiobook 619 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,720 Speaker 3: The Ghost Club is available on Audible now. I can't 620 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,400 Speaker 3: wait to tell you the real story about the world's 621 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 3: most famous ghost hunter. Who was the head of the 622 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:03,400 Speaker 3: world's most famous ghost Club and how he investigated England's 623 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 3: most famous haunted house. Please also check out my books 624 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,239 Speaker 3: American Sherlock and All That Is Wicked. This has been 625 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 3: an exactly right tenfold more Media production producer Jason Whaling, 626 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:22,400 Speaker 3: Senior producer Alexis and Morosi, Consulting producer Kyle Ryan, researcher 627 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 3: Nicole Brown, sound designer Eric Friend, composer Curtis Heath, artwork 628 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:34,000 Speaker 3: Nick Toga. Executive producers Georgia Hartstark, Karen Kilgarriff and Danielle Kramer. 629 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 3: Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at tenfold more Wicked 630 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 3: and on Twitter at tenfold More