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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: We are only scratching the surface in one more patient

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Speaker 2: switch reading, and it takes quite some time to scale

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Speaker 2: manufacture and trinket through many more millions of pieces.

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Speaker 1: This is the man in charge of Europe's most valuable company,

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Speaker 1: Novo Nordisk and its blockbuster diabetes and obesity drugs of

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Speaker 1: Zembec and Mogovi both contain the key ingredient sea BlueTide,

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Speaker 1: revolutionizing the weight loss market and generating billions in sales.

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Speaker 1: Celebrities have helped their popularity. Sore Sharon Osbourne, Chelsea Handler,

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Speaker 1: and Elon Musk have all publicly talked about taking the

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Speaker 1: zepig Orrigovie, and they've had further backing from Oprah Winfrey.

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Speaker 1: It's a global phenomenon, reaching millions on social media apps,

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Speaker 1: including TikTok, but it's not without controversy, including possible side effects,

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Speaker 1: high prices, and the company's lobbying efforts, receiving criticism around

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Speaker 1: the world world, and in some cases patients might also

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Speaker 1: need to take the drugs indefinitely to avoid regaining the weight.

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Speaker 1: Chief executive Las Freugljogensen says obesity is a disease and

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Speaker 1: things a company will learn from its growing number of patients.

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Speaker 2: When I asked the scientists, they say, pology and mechanism

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Speaker 2: will tell you that it's quite treatment. My personal view

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Speaker 2: is that you will also here learned that patients are

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Speaker 2: much different and they'll be different avenues, so we'll have

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Speaker 2: to build a portfolio of interventions.

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Speaker 1: On this episode of Leaders with Laqua, I traveled to

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Speaker 1: the firm's headquarters in Copenhagen, Denmark. I asked Lars Feugair

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Speaker 1: Jogensen about the global sensation, how he's navigating the company's

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Speaker 1: meteoric rise, and the sweeping changes they could bring across

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Speaker 1: a range of industries. Lurs, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: being on Bloomberg with us.

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Speaker 2: That sine thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: I mean, after decades of research basically and over finds

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Speaker 1: a molecule that changes everything in terms of weight loss drugs.

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Speaker 1: Were you taken by surprise at the appetite actually for

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Speaker 1: these drugs and how mainstream they are?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would actually say that many surprises when you

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Speaker 2: get products like that. It starts with surprises in the

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Speaker 2: innovation because there are many shots being made on goal

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Speaker 2: and most fail and the winner is often the one

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Speaker 2: that surprises people the most.

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Speaker 1: So why do you think this. I guess surprise or

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Speaker 1: success was unexpected. Did it capture something in society that

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Speaker 1: you weren't ready for.

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Speaker 2: I think we have seen first many decades of our

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Speaker 2: company was focused on type one diabetes. Then because of

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Speaker 2: lifestyle changes, perhaps genetics, there was an increase in type

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Speaker 2: two dia beats. But for many years type two the

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Speaker 2: beats was not intensively treated. Then there was a so

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Speaker 2: called uk PDS started that really showed that you need

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Speaker 2: to treat typetuta beats to prevent commobidities, and that increased

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Speaker 2: the diabetes marked a lot. Now we are kind of

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Speaker 2: seeing the same with obesity that for years we felt

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Speaker 2: that perhaps obesity is not a real disease, not something

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Speaker 2: you should treat, but that's now being established that actually

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Speaker 2: by understanding the underlying courses of obesity, that there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of a lot of play, for instance genetics, but

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Speaker 2: now also innovations that can actually treat the disease, help

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Speaker 2: people reduce weight and prevent the commodities. So I think

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Speaker 2: it's a repeat in a way of what happened with

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Speaker 2: type two diabetes, and that then suddenly opens a market

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Speaker 2: that turns out to be way bigger than the diabetes market.

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Speaker 1: How difficult is it to have a lifelong treatment? And again,

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Speaker 1: how do you see that changing?

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Speaker 2: I think we are yet to learn how patient journeys

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Speaker 2: will be much different. Some will be on lifelong treatment,

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Speaker 2: Some will have, say progressive obesity that will keep you

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Speaker 2: put more and more weight on and they'll need more

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Speaker 2: and more eificacious medicine. But perhaps also be some who

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Speaker 2: we're actually being on treatment for some time almost prevents them,

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Speaker 2: and they'll have a different trajectory. I don't think we

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Speaker 2: have seen much of this yet. When I asked the

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Speaker 2: scientists I'm not a scientist myself, they say, but bylity

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Speaker 2: and mechanism will tell you that it's chronic treatment. My

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Speaker 2: personal view is that we will also here learn that

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Speaker 2: patients are much different and there'll be different avenues, so

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Speaker 2: we'll have to build a portfolio of interventions. Lifestyle will

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Speaker 2: also play into for some of them, and I think

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Speaker 2: we can help many patients get down to a weight

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Speaker 2: that they can maintain and live the life they want

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Speaker 2: to live and avoid many comobilities for the healthcare systems.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we also heard from some of the food

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Speaker 1: companies that the chief executives of some of the big

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Speaker 1: groups are having crisis talks. And actually, does this mean

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Speaker 1: that there's going to be a wider adoption of these drugs?

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Speaker 1: Does it mean that people are going to eat an

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Speaker 1: drink thirty percent less? Do you see it really changing

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Speaker 1: our societies?

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Speaker 2: I think there'll be many changes, But I think with

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Speaker 2: that also comes opportunities. They'll perhaps be a different preference

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Speaker 2: for snacking, so I think we still need to eat,

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Speaker 2: so maybe perhaps a bit less of the unhealthy snacking

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Speaker 2: and a preference for more the healthy stuff. So I

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Speaker 2: think for companies it's also about, you know, following the

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Speaker 2: trend and evolving your business and moving to where the

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Speaker 2: market is. And I think there is probably, say an

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Speaker 2: eighty twenty perspective here, like in many other sectors, that

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Speaker 2: you will have a few patients who are really heavy consumers,

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Speaker 2: and if those are also those who then start up treatment,

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Speaker 2: I think they'll be a relative bigger impact on some

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Speaker 2: of these companies. But I was say, in general, I

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Speaker 2: think it's a bit hyped when we see their actions.

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Speaker 2: We see because we are only scratching the surface in

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Speaker 2: the number of patients we are treating, and it takes

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Speaker 2: quite some time to scale manufacturing to get to many

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Speaker 2: more millions of patients.

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Speaker 1: Hollywood has also adopted actually you know your weight loss drugs?

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Speaker 1: Is that a good or a bad thing.

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Speaker 2: We now have a situation where social media, you know,

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Speaker 2: is filled with communication around our products, and that's a

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Speaker 2: complete new for us. We have focused on educating physicians.

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Speaker 2: In most countries we cannot do direct to consumer advertisement

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Speaker 2: and in all countries is really important for us. We

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Speaker 2: get physicians to understand which products are approved for type

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Speaker 2: tuta biders, which are proved for obesity, what's a mechanism

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Speaker 2: and how should they be used? And when we see

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Speaker 2: at you get data from insurance companies, et cetera, we

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Speaker 2: can see the profile of those who use our medicines.

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Speaker 2: We can see that they are on areas people with

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Speaker 2: a very high BMI, well above thirty. So that is

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Speaker 2: actually also the approved label. So we feel comfortable about that.

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Speaker 2: It is people in need of medical intervention to treat

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Speaker 2: serious obesity situations.

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Speaker 1: But you've become such a phenomenon and the you know

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Speaker 1: their means and you're right, it's all over social media

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Speaker 1: and some are saying, look, the problem with this is

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Speaker 1: that it could actually lead to more eating disorders, and

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Speaker 1: this is probably because of the increase in social media.

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Speaker 1: What do former companies do Can they do anything to

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Speaker 1: kind of balance this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we have quite spent some time on

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Speaker 2: understanding what what does this mean, what's what's the breath

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Speaker 2: of it? And we've come to realize that we cannot

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Speaker 2: control social media. We try to be present and get

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Speaker 2: our messaging in. But then all our medicines they take

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Speaker 2: a physician writing a script. So we really focus on

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Speaker 2: the physician to make sure that they understand what are

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Speaker 2: the mechanisms, who are the appropriate patients, what's that labor

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Speaker 2: And then I think we have to also trust that

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Speaker 2: the physicians they do what is right for their patient,

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Speaker 2: and they should for sure not prescribe for people living.

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Speaker 1: With the even sold coming up. I asked ls for

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Speaker 1: Galiogensen about criticism the company has faced over its prices,

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Speaker 1: with some analysts predicting the weight loss drug industry could

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Speaker 1: be worth one hundred and fifteen billion dollars a year. Globally.

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Speaker 1: More than one billion people are thought to be abest

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Speaker 1: It's a crucial market for weight loss drug makers like

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Speaker 1: Nova Nordisk, but challenges remain. The company's patents expire in

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Speaker 1: the US and the EU at the end of the

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Speaker 1: next decade, and rival drugs are already emerging like zet

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Speaker 1: bound by Eli Lilly I also achieved executive Galijoginsen about

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Speaker 1: regulatory pressures and future growth. So how do you think

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Speaker 1: about pricing? Again, you must have gone some difficult questions

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Speaker 1: from governments. But also this goes back to innovation.

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Speaker 2: Most products are priced according to the value they bring,

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Speaker 2: and I feel really good about the value of our

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Speaker 2: medicines what they bring to the individual patient, but are

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Speaker 2: also the value to the healthcare system. And we have

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Speaker 2: today healthcare systems around the world who were typically designed

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Speaker 2: for acute care, but finding that eighty percent of the

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Speaker 2: cost in the healthcare system is linked to chronic care.

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Speaker 2: And we have a portfolio of products that are really

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Speaker 2: addressing some of the chronic diseases of our day and age, diabetes, obesity,

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Speaker 2: and the commobidities that follows that. We know that there

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Speaker 2: are projections that say by twenty to thirty five, the

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Speaker 2: World Obesiti Federation predicts that the cost burden to society

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Speaker 2: will be four trillion dollars of the people living with obesity,

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Speaker 2: and that course is going to a large degree be

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Speaker 2: taken up by healthcare systems who are already struggling today

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Speaker 2: eating populations, you know, shortage of labor, A lot of

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Speaker 2: workers left the healthcare systems during the pandemic after the pandemic.

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Speaker 2: So being articulating, what is actually value of the medicine

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Speaker 2: we have and if you invest in that, Yes, there

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Speaker 2: is a cost upfront, maybe we can discuss how we

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Speaker 2: you know, we deal with that, but there is actually

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Speaker 2: tremendous value in terms of preventing cost and keeping people

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Speaker 2: out of hospital.

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Speaker 1: But this is a crucial moment because your prices will

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Speaker 1: probably go down as you have more competitors coming in.

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Speaker 1: We know if ELI lately, you know, Amgin could be

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Speaker 1: a competitor. And so this is I guess the crucial

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Speaker 1: time where we have to make investment decisions when prices

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Speaker 1: are high and you have more cash coming in. Is

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Speaker 1: that right? Is that how you view it?

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Speaker 2: Yes, to put a bit of color around it. The

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Speaker 2: same forecast predicts that there'll be say a billion people

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Speaker 2: living with obesity in thirty to thirty five. We are

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Speaker 2: perhaps serving one or two million of them today, So

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Speaker 2: there's a huge market opportunity and there's place for more.

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Speaker 2: And then you're right that in most markets, when you

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Speaker 2: get more competition, and also over time, pricing moves down

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Speaker 2: because you start treating those who accept, say the higher

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Speaker 2: price point in the US, that's commercial insurance, and then

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Speaker 2: over time you get broader access and you get to

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Speaker 2: patients paying a lower price. So if you just take

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Speaker 2: our leading diabetes product in the US since launch in

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Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, the price we get after rebates, discount, et cetera,

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Speaker 2: is some forty percent lower than when we launched. That's

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Speaker 2: often not mentioned in the say the political debate. Instead,

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Speaker 2: the list price is mentioned, which is not actually what

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Speaker 2: we book in our account because that's after rebates.

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Speaker 1: V US is such a large market, would you ever

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Speaker 1: deal list or even change headquarters to the US.

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Speaker 2: That's unlikely. We are controlled by a foundation that's anchored

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Speaker 2: in Denmark. We have a lot of say, footprint in Denmark.

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Speaker 2: Having said that, we do invest and expand a lot globally.

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Speaker 2: Most of what we sell in the US we also

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Speaker 2: produce in the US, So in many aspects we are

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Speaker 2: as much a US company as we are a Danish company,

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Speaker 2: but the headquarter, the corporate headquarter is based in Denmark.

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Speaker 2: For the foreseble future.

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Speaker 1: You think of Denmark and really now you think of

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Speaker 1: Novo because of the size of revenues, which is I

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Speaker 1: think bigger than GDP. Is that uncomfortable.

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Speaker 2: I think maybe the perspective should be corrected a bit

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Speaker 2: because there's this comparison about our market cap with the

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Speaker 2: Danish GDP, and we all know that GDP is an

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Speaker 2: economic flow matrix for the flow on a yearly basis,

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Speaker 2: and the market cap is the total value of the company.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure if we compare the market cap of No

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Speaker 2: Noise with the market cap of everything that's in Denmark,

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Speaker 2: we would be tiny. But of course there's also the

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Speaker 2: point that with our expansions, our you know, more than

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Speaker 2: thirty thousand per years in Denmark, huge capex investment, we

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Speaker 2: are fueling the GDP growth and you know we take

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Speaker 2: that quite seriously. So the jobs we create I don't

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Speaker 2: think will disappear again. And now we talk about expanding

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Speaker 2: in the US, it doesn't come in the shape a

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Speaker 2: form of moving activities from dinner to the US. It's

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Speaker 2: growth in the US. So we will be careful and

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Speaker 2: respectful in how we grow, so we can do that

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Speaker 2: in a sustainable way, and.

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Speaker 1: That's also increasing supply with new factories.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we have made huge investment decisions and these are

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Speaker 2: you know, billion dollar commitments per year, and it takes

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Speaker 2: four or five years to build some of these facilities

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Speaker 2: and welckily started already years back. So we have more

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Speaker 2: and more lines kicking in on an ongoing basis, but

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Speaker 2: some of them will also be kicking.

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Speaker 1: In in the future. Are you also looking for acquisitions.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we are. We are in the unique situation that

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Speaker 2: most of the products we have came from our in

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Speaker 2: house on the efforts, which is a bit unusual compared

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Speaker 2: to some of our peers. We expect to carry on

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Speaker 2: with that, but we can also see that we can

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Speaker 2: complement that by some acquisitions. So typically it would be

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Speaker 2: Early States bio check, where they have great science, we

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Speaker 2: have disease understanding, We have the infrastructure, so we can

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Speaker 2: express that science in a better way than they can

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Speaker 2: do on their own. So merging makes a perfect marriage,

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Speaker 2: and some of the party is bigger than what each

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Speaker 2: can do on their own.

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Speaker 1: Former companies having a harder time after COVID there seems

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Speaker 1: to have been an explosion of not trusting pharmaceutical companies,

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Speaker 1: even you know, vaccines being questioned. Have you felt any backlash?

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Speaker 2: Yes, And to me, that's a really, really sad situation

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Speaker 2: to be in because had it not been for some

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Speaker 2: of the you know, very innovative small biotechs who came

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Speaker 2: up with vaccines and then teaming up with some of

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Speaker 2: the largest forces of our industry to in record time

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Speaker 2: get approval and scaling manufacturing, I think the world would

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Speaker 2: have looked much different today. And I respect that some

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Speaker 2: who do not like vaccines, but the majority of us

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Speaker 2: had a number of shots and that led to a

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Speaker 2: lot of debate about our patents really needed. And unless

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Speaker 2: we have you know, an ability to patent innovation, there's

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Speaker 2: not going to be any innovation, so there will be

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Speaker 2: no new products. So I think there's something about equality

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Speaker 2: how we distribute products, and honestly, I think a lot

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Speaker 2: of the rich countries ended up grabbing products for their

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Speaker 2: own population at the expense of some of the developing

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Speaker 2: countries who do not get access. That then leads to

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Speaker 2: a debate whether IP is the right way to go,

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Speaker 2: But that for me, is the wrong discussion we have

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Speaker 2: to figure out how can with social atarity in a

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Speaker 2: way where we actually acknowledge that the whole world needs

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Speaker 2: the benefit in a fair way. But if you take

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Speaker 2: the incentive away from innovation, we're all weigh off.

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Speaker 1: Coming up Las four, gad Joginsen tells me about his

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Speaker 1: leadership style at the helm of Europe's most valuable company.

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Speaker 1: The market value of Novnordisk is bigger than the Danish economy,

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Speaker 1: and its philanthropic foundation is now the world's largest, with

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Speaker 1: more than double the assets of the Gates Foundation. I

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Speaker 1: asked Lars for Regal Jogensen how he handles a company's

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Speaker 1: success and his approach to corporate culture. Are you enjoying

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Speaker 1: success or is it with it? Does it also bring

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Speaker 1: a lot of responsibility?

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Speaker 2: I to go as CEO at a time where Asia

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Speaker 2: price had just been cut by forty percent, we were

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Speaker 2: in no growth or no single digit growth, and it's

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Speaker 2: much harder to invest in the business do things you

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Speaker 2: want to do compared to what the opportunities are today.

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Speaker 2: So I enjoy that, but obviously it also comes with

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Speaker 2: many challenges about how to sustain the success of a company.

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Speaker 2: Let's enjoyed success or what kind.

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Speaker 1: Of leader are you or what kind of leader? Would

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Speaker 1: your employees say you are?

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Speaker 2: Well, you should ask them. I hope they would say

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Speaker 2: that I'm authentic, I'm relative easy to read. I would

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Speaker 2: also hope they say that I'm curious because I'm another

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Speaker 2: specialist in anything. But I found that there has not

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Speaker 2: been yet a problem in the company we couldn't solve

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Speaker 2: if we actually mobilized the right people. So I'm born

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Speaker 2: with a big nose and big ears, and I use

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Speaker 2: the attributes of that eas and every day to collect, say,

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Speaker 2: opinions from the company, and then it's my role to

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Speaker 2: combine it into an opinion together with my team and

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Speaker 2: make sure that we make the right choice.

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Speaker 1: So does a perfect leader in twenty twenty four need

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Speaker 1: to be a visionary or a problem solver?

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Speaker 2: I would say, if I have to solve the problems,

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Speaker 2: it's a problem because if examined, when COVID nineteen arrived,

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Speaker 2: we decided to close down, say the offices we kept manufacturing,

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Speaker 2: and the border is running and we all went home,

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Speaker 2: and what you do well, you need to establish a

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Speaker 2: crisis response team to deal with that. So the first

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Speaker 2: decision I made was I should not be part of

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Speaker 2: that why I was a bit out of a loop

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Speaker 2: for a couple of days. But I knew if I

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Speaker 2: put myself into that, I would become the bottleneck in

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Speaker 2: the company and the company would suddenly have lost its CEO.

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Speaker 2: So I asked our CEFO to share that and then

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Speaker 2: I could still, you know, be there for everybody, and

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Speaker 2: people could come to me and check in, and I

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Speaker 2: could try to get a view for what are oil

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Speaker 2: companies doing, what's happening and and and give them some input.

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Speaker 2: So if the CEO turns into the problem solve with

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Speaker 2: the company, I think the company needs another CEO.

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Speaker 1: Have you changed as a CEO?

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Speaker 2: I believe I have. I when I I was promoted,

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Speaker 2: I took a step up in the team, So I

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Speaker 2: went from over night being colleague to being the leader

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Speaker 2: of the team. And I think they would tell me

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Speaker 2: today that they would have liked me maybe to a

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Speaker 2: bit quicker act like the boss, But for me it

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Speaker 2: was not natural to just be say bussy after one night.

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Speaker 2: So I think I've been growing into the role and

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Speaker 2: I feel more comfortable today in actually listening to my guts,

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Speaker 2: which is a combination of your own feelings but also

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Speaker 2: your experiences and earlier say what I believe in, and

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Speaker 2: that creates clarity for an organization with more than sixty

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Speaker 2: thousand people.

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Speaker 1: And so Saturday mornings, I understand you have off.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Saturday is always a day where powered down. So

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Speaker 2: I run at a relative high pace thout the week,

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Speaker 2: try to wrap things up, and Saturday is a quiet

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Speaker 2: day for me in terms of work. And I start

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Speaker 2: typically by playing tennis with my wife. We'll go for

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Speaker 2: a swim all year round. After that, have a nice lunch,

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Speaker 2: and then I'm onto a good trajectory for the weekend.

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Speaker 2: And then Sunday I try to prepare for the coming weeks.

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Speaker 2: But through a weekend I would send ather no emails

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Speaker 2: of very few emails, because I want to drive a

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Speaker 2: culture where all gets an opportunity to spend the weekend

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Speaker 2: as they fancy. And I think what we do is

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Speaker 2: so difficult and it takes so much creative thinking to

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Speaker 2: succeed that if you're always on, always busy, the bandwidth

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Speaker 2: of your reflection is just too narrow. And I generally

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Speaker 2: believe that Monday mornings I'm a better leader than I am,

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Speaker 2: say Friday afternoon. I also take all my vacations. I

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Speaker 2: generally believe I'm a much better CEO right after a

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Speaker 2: vacation than I am before vacation.

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Speaker 1: What's your best piece of advice you've ever received, and

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Speaker 1: what's the worst piece of advice you've ever received.

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Speaker 2: The best advice would probably be give people a fair

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Speaker 2: chance to succeed, and most can actually do much better

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Speaker 2: than the belief themselves. And perhaps also you believe based

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Speaker 2: on say, short term performance. So trust people and give

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Speaker 2: them what is needed for them to succeed. You'll see

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Speaker 2: people succeeding. The worst piece would be something that was

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Speaker 2: influenced by, say politics or spinning facts. I'm hyper allergic

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Speaker 2: to politics and where you try to take advantage of

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Speaker 2: a position. So I've had one experience during my career

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Speaker 2: where I gave my record resignition because somebody, a close colleague,

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Speaker 2: actually completely twisted some facts. We had just agreed how

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Speaker 2: to approach. Then we met with our shared boss and

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Speaker 2: my colleague just turned it around. I said, okay, anteqrity

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Speaker 2: so so holy for me that if people play tricks,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's not my game whatever. So I just said, okay,

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Speaker 2: this is it. I'm out here. But we sorted we

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Speaker 2: shorted out, I still stayed so so so any advice

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Speaker 2: that is not based on honesty, decency, and you know,

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Speaker 2: following the facts, I have a really hard time.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time today.

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Speaker 2: Thank you