WEBVTT - How to Raise a Reader w/ Pamela Paul (REBROADCAST) 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:05.520 Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda Land Audio 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:09.200 in partnership with I Heart Radio. Hi everyone, and welcome 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:12.800 back to Katie's Crib. This week, I'm rereleasing one of 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.079 my early interviews back from We'll have a brand new 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:25.759 episode up for you next week. Enjoy the conversation. Bye, 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:29.880 Welcome back to Katie's Crib. You guys. I'm Katie Lows, 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:33.120 and today we are tackling a topic at the forefront 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:36.600 of my mind with the mother who wrote the book 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:39.960 on it, author of How to Raise a Reader. She's 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:41.839 the editor of the New York Times Book Review and 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:45.559 the host of their book review weekly podcast. Please welcome 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:50.280 the one and only Pamela Paul. Pamela. Thank you so 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:52.320 much for going. I like, wait first, do you go 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:56.360 by pam or Pamela Pamela. I'm a Pamela Great. I 0:00:56.440 --> 0:01:00.360 love that. Okay, So, Pamela, A little bit of backstory. UM, 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:02.720 My mother in law, who I'm very close with, came 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:04.680 to visit and she had cut out a New York 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:07.840 Times article and placed it on my desk should I 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:10.800 so happen to see it? And the article was how 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:14.520 to Raise a Reader, which became your book. My mother 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:16.919 in law is an avid reader. I am as well. 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:19.720 My husband, who's her son, is not. I think we've 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:22.479 been together thirteen years and I I think I've maybe 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:28.720 seen him read one or two books maybe, Um. I 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:32.600 think one was on back Pain because he has a 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:37.720 bad back, and then UM one was I think Headache 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:41.920 of the Pelvis because he was also having pelvic floor problems. So, um, 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:43.640 those are the only two books I've seen him read. 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:46.520 He's an avid reader of his phone and the news 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:50.160 and things like that, but he has never read a 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:53.440 book for enjoyment. And um, we have a two and 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:57.840 a half year old son, and I I just your 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:00.440 article really really spoke to me, and your word really 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:03.280 speaks to me. And I I'm a New Yorker, so 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:07.720 I'm a warrior and I am already worried about how 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:10.360 to raise a reader. It was like, well, I gotta 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:13.000 have Pamela on this podcast because I got some questions 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:15.760 for her. Um, so first, why don't you tell me 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:18.240 a little bit about yourself and how many words per 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:21.200 minute you read? All right, well, let's start off with 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:23.919 the fact that I am also a warrior. Um. The 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:26.400 book that I wrote immediately before this My Life with 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:30.920 Bob flawed heroin seeks book of books. Plot ensues. The 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:34.720 first paragraph is actually about everything that I worry about 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:37.480 at night, and that if I can't find something, you know, 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:39.400 if I don't have something sort of in the queue 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:41.480 to worry about, I will find it. So we are 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:44.239 on the same page there um, and on the same 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:48.079 page in terms of being readers. But maybe you will 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:52.799 be also like me, a slow reader, so words per 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:56.119 minute like that kind of thing terrifies me, or pages 0:02:56.200 --> 0:03:02.760 per minute. I'm actually hugely slow and distractable reader, so 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:07.160 I know, I know it's a huge defect at my 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:11.600 line of work. And I also forget everything that I read. Um, 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:14.200 So you know I said I don't forget. For example, 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:16.079 when I meet someone, I joke that I should have 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:19.520 worked at like E Entertainment television because I remember exactly 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:22.240 when I meet someone in the circumstances, but I do 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:24.720 not remember what I read. The nice part of that 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:27.920 is that rereading is like when I do it a 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.040 total pleasure because it's like I'm enjoying it for the 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:32.919 first time. Does it seem at all? I have that too, 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:35.320 where I'll read a book I'll start something and I'll 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:38.000 be like, I've been here before, and I've been like, 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:40.680 oh my god, I feel like I've totally read this, 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:43.720 but I'm not one percent sure, so I'll just keep going. Yes, 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:46.040 I you know, it's funny. I the same thing happens 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:49.160 with movies. And I remember once being at Lincoln Plaza 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:52.320 cinema now closed, but you'll remember, as a fellow New Yorker, 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:56.680 UM the Great Upper West Side our cinema, and sitting 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.840 there and watching a French movie and thinking, why do 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:04.320 every French movie about the French Resistance have to start 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:07.280 Julie Pinos and Daniel o'tei And why must it always 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:11.520 start with a nighttime scene of them bombing a train track? 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:14.560 And it only you know. I was about thirty minutes 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.480 into the movie before I realized I saw this movie. 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:19.919 I saw this movie when it first came out in France, 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:23.680 like three years earlier. Um, but I stayed so I 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.359 can I can enjoy the for the second time. It 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:29.680 does become vaguely familiar. But one interesting thing I think 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:34.240 about reading is that every time you reread a book, 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:38.080 you're at a different place in your own life and 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:41.720 your perspective has changed, and what's going on around you 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:45.880 has changed, and so every reading experience is different from 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:49.440 the previous one. And I bear that in mind, especially 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:52.720 when you think about raising children who are readers. And 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:55.960 if your son, Albi is um, we're about three years old, 0:04:56.120 --> 0:05:00.560 he's probably asking again again again for the same I 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:03.919 hide them and is that bad? I literally can't today 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:07.240 Thomas and friends. I was like, I was honest, I said, 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:09.600 you know what, I'll be Mommy's board of this book. 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:11.400 I'm just going to give it a rest for today. 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:14.039 We can come back to it tomorrow. But I can't 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:17.719 do this again. Well, it's it's interesting. So there are 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:20.240 a couple of things that kids get from rereading. One 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:22.880 is if you think about yourself and if you read 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:25.080 a book, like let's say you read a book in 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:26.920 your twenties, and I'm going to give it an example 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.840 that maybe not everyone has read, but it's a good example. 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:33.599 Anna Karenina by Tolstoy. That's a book that we I 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:36.600 think we all know about an adulterous woman. If you 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.640 read that in your twenties, right, and you're single, you 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.640 think this is so romantic. Anna has met the love 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.000 of her life. This is amazing. I mean until we 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:47.760 get to the sorry spoiler alert, but suicide at the end. 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:51.040 And it's a love story. But if you read it 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:54.120 when you're in your thirties, say, and you are newly 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:56.640 married and you're very happy and maybe you have a child, 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:02.000 you think she's terrible. Yeah, what are like she has 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:05.520 abandoned her child and her husband. What kind of mother? 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:08.279 What kind of woman? And then though, if you read 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:10.160 it again and like your forties or your fifties or 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:12.320 your sixties, you're like, mah, I kind of get it, 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.520 like she needed to know that she was having like right, 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:17.680 life is long, and she was having a different experience. 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:20.440 I guess I can sort of relate because we do 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:23.960 as actors, like I like to see the same plays 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:25.880 over and over again, you know, like I'll run to 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:28.880 see Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf? You know X amount 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:31.360 of times, although I guess it's to see somebody perform it. 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:33.839 But I'm also always in a different place in my life, 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:36.240 and I pick up new and different things and understand 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:40.279 them differently. And so with kids, they're changing and developing 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:43.839 so quickly that if a four year old reads a 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:47.400 book and then even two months later, once it read again, 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:52.279 they're a different person by that time, they're different interesting, 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:54.960 And as they get older, this is even more the 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:58.320 case because, like, let's use Harry Potter as an example 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:01.080 that everyone is familiar with. If you read Harry Potter 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:03.680 as some kids you know, do sort of precociously or 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:05.680 have it read to them when they're in third or 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:10.680 fourth grade, all that stuff about Cedric dying again. Sorry 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.880 if I'm giving away plot points here. It read all 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:15.640 the freaking Harry Potters it was. That was like a 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:17.480 decade or more than that. Oh my god, I don't 0:07:17.480 --> 0:07:19.320 even know. No, no spoilers, go for it, all right. 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.040 So at the end of book, for um Cedric who 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:24.960 is a lovable character, um sort of side character, but 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:27.760 nonetheless he did nothing wrong. He's a good kid, and 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:30.840 he dies. So for a lot of kids, at a 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.280 certain point, they're too young and they might not process it. Um. 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.360 At a slightly older age, they might be like that's terrible, 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.600 and like that's not you know, kids often see things 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:42.480 in very black and white terms. They be like, how 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:46.320 can a good person die? That's not okay? And then 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:49.720 as they get even older, they might be genuinely upset 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.920 by it on an emotional level because maybe they're that age. 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:55.800 And then when they get even older, they might appreciate 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:57.840 it as a reader, as a literary device. They might 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:01.360 be like, Oh, that's so interesting. So he dies. And 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:06.040 that's when the novels JK. Rollings seven Harry Potter novels 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:10.160 shift from being books for children into being books for teenagers, 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:12.840 which is what happens in books five, six, and seven. 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.280 They become books for teenagers. Um and of course grown 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:17.640 ups like them too, but little kids. A lot of 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:20.320 the stuff that happens in those later books it's teenage 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:23.880 stuff because JK. Rolling had the books age and the 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:26.560 character's age along with her readers, so that the people 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.760 who originally joined in would sort of constantly feel like 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:32.600 it was about them and like a little kid, you know, 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:35.360 they're not gonna the love story, and like the kind 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.160 of middle school antics that happened between the characters where 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:40.280 people aren't talking to one another, like that's kind of 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:43.240 just kind of glide over them. But for the reader 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:46.000 who's eleven and twelve years old, that completely hits them 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:48.440 where they're Yeah, it's right where they are. What about 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:53.080 when we're at this new phase right now where um, 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:57.040 he just learned that things scare him. Um, it's like 0:08:57.160 --> 0:08:59.240 new in the past couple of weeks. So now there's 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:03.000 just a lot of quests to skip certain pages or 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:05.040 you know, like, oh, just make sure you don't do 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:07.520 the rocket thing. That's too even though the page just 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:09.559 has rockets on it. He's like, no, that's too loud. 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:10.880 I don't want to read that page. And like, I 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:12.480 got it, We're not going to read that page. Was 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.439 skipping it, you know, or he'll he'll wake up. Sometimes 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:20.400 there's a kid's book called the Gruffalo or oh things 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:23.719 that have monsters or dinosaurs me to love. But like 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:25.920 he was so into it for a week and then 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:27.680 the next week he was like, it's too scary, and 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:29.439 I said, okay, it's too scary. You know. He had 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:31.040 a night where he went to sleep in. An hour 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:32.720 later he woke up and he said, Mom, I'm scared 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:36.400 of the Gruffalo. Um. And I feel like these are 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:40.600 all new emotions. Similarly, I was in nanny for like 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.280 ten years before I was able to just be an actor, 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:46.880 and I remember kind of on the flip side, I 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:49.440 remember some of my older kids really getting obsessed with 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:54.240 like very dark dark books, um, things about death and 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:56.760 and things that and really leaning into that. Is there 0:09:56.760 --> 0:10:00.520 ever a time where you like, kids shouldn't be reading 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:03.920 stuff like shouldn't be I don't know. I mean, I 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:05.760 guess it's the same with movies, or maybe it's not. 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.480 I don't know. This is your imagination, which is awesome. 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:12.040 But um, I was reading something from your book My 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:14.480 Life with Bob, which you brought up, and it said, 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:17.080 like many other morbid kids with Jewish ancestry, I was 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:19.679 drawn to Holocaust reading from the moment I d a 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.880 lessons seeking out death and torture and deprivation and evil, 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:25.640 which I totally get. Um, Now, my kid's not there, 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:28.400 he's afraid and just doesn't want to process it. But 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:32.760 is there is that right to to just follow his rules? A? 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.160 And then the second question and that is is there 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:40.280 things that kids shouldn't be reading? Oh? These are two 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:44.880 really great questions and big questions. Um. And I want 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.160 to say that it obviously had training as a nanny 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:50.840 in parenthood, which is very good because you know, it 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:53.760 sounds like you should what you're doing what you should 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:55.880 be doing, which is let your child take the lead, 0:10:56.360 --> 0:11:00.480 and that applies to, you know, skipping over pages, slowing down, 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:04.520 sadly often reading a book for the twenty time. And 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:06.280 I'm going to note that and tell my husband that 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:09.760 today that Thomas and Friends is back on the pile. Yes, 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:12.319 I know, it's it's. It's it's There are some books 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:15.040 that are so terribly boring to have to reread. For us, 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:18.120 it was the Biscuit books, which are just unbearable. And 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.200 if you're not familiar with them, you can just put 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:22.839 that on your do not go list. Um. And we 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:25.680 don't have those unless you like to say, woof Wolf 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:29.440 like ten tho times in this space of thirty two pages. Um. 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:34.440 But reading it repeatedly to your child does actually have UM, 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:39.440 really good pedagogical um sort of. It has an impact 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:42.160 in that your kids are starting to memorize it, they're 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:44.720 becoming familiar with it, they're learning in a way to read, 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.800 and that in that they're beginning to recognize the world. 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.000 They know the story by heart, and then they can 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:53.679 quote unquote read it to themselves, which is like, it's 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:55.960 amazing to see he's like memorized. I can't believe it. 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:58.480 It's crazy, he says. The book pages before I get there, 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.400 yeah and so, and as part of that taking the lead, 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.280 if they are scared of something, it's definitely a good 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:08.000 idea to skip over it, because like, we're not instructors. 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:11.120 We're not teaching our child how to read. We're teaching 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:14.079 them to love to read. That's our job as parents. 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.960 And so why would you force your child through something 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:20.080 that is not pleasurable to them or just bringing up 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:22.200 negative emotions. So you definitely want to let them go 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:26.000 pass those scary passages. And perhaps because you're an actor, 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:28.559 you'll fall into a trap that I too fell into 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:31.640 even though I can't act at all, which is sometimes 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:35.439 you get very caught up in your own performance experience. 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:39.600 That's right, you mean my performance of the Gruffalo. Sure, 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:43.319 exactly what you're saying, Right, You've got voices for all 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.319 those characters, right, Like the snake has its own little 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:49.920 hissing thing. For sure. You got me nailed, okay, And 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:52.760 so it's kind of upsetting when your child would be like, 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:55.040 I don't like the ogre voice, or like could you 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:58.559 stop it with a hissing um. There were certain books 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:01.440 that I liked to say rather than read aloud. And 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:03.880 I also can't sing and my kids let it be 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.480 known after a while that like, actually, could you just 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.080 read that and not sing it? You don't have to 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.240 make up a little tune for bread and jam with 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.800 Francis for Francis and so um. It's that that kind 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:16.040 of stuff you have to let go of as a 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:18.280 parent and really hand it to your kids. And I 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:21.000 think the same thing goes with your second question, um, 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:23.840 which is there's a lot to that question about you know, 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.760 when is your child too young to read something scary? Um. 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:32.440 I believe firmly that one, kids kind of know what 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.680 they're ready for and what they're not ready for. And 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:40.040 also kids are like kids will put things down and 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:42.679 they also will choose to see certain things. That goes 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:44.680 back to what I was saying about Harry Potter. You know, 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:46.720 like if you think back to some of the things 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:49.040 that you movies, you saw books you read as a 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:51.040 child and you didn't quite get it, and then you 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:52.800 see it again as a growing up and you're like, 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:56.559 oh my god. You know, like I had no idea. Um, 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:58.800 I'm a little bit older than you, and when I 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:01.760 was growing up in the seventies and eighties, you know, 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.800 parents weren't as as protective or cautious about material, and 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:06.760 there wasn't as much that was directly made for kids. 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:09.200 They'd be like, sure, let's all go see terms of 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:12.080 Endearment or you know, let's go to watership down where 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:15.520 there are bloody bunnies, you know, dying on fields and 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:18.640 everything sort of, you know, if it wasn't our sort 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:21.680 of seem like maybe it was okay. A lot of 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:24.720 the times I didn't absorb that stuff. I mean, I 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.480 remember seeing Terms of Endearment, for example, with my mother, 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.400 and she came out sobbing and was so apologetic, and 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:32.120 I was like, I don't know what the problem is. 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:34.160 Of course I saw it as an adult and I 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:38.640 was weeping. Um, but kids don't necessarily see or absorb 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:41.560 all that, and some kids are drawn to it and 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:45.080 some very much are not. And one of the fascinating 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:47.640 things I find about, you know, viewing your child as 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:50.600 a reader, as you really have this different lens into 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.800 their inner life, because you find out things that you 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:57.160 wouldn't necessarily know. Like one of my three kids, um 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:00.760 doesn't like sad stories? Does really? Now? Two of them 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.240 don't like sad stories. I love crying when I read. 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:06.480 I love it so much like if it if it 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:09.200 breaks me down, I'm like, this is the best book. 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:15.120 Um My kids really don't like that, and so they 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:18.160 will shut the book. They'll ask not to get a 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:20.400 book about a dying squirrel again, or about like a 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:24.040 you know, disabled box. Um. And you know, and then 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:26.240 there are kids that really really want that and seek 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:28.720 that out, especially when they get to you know, the 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:33.080 teenage years. That's great. So really we're letting them take 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:36.960 the lead. Were you a huge reader as a kid? Um? 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:40.680 I definitely was a huge reader as a kid. I um, 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:43.480 I felt like things were better in books than they 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.040 were in real life. Um I. It wasn't that I 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:48.440 was a hugely unhappy child. I grew up with though, 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:51.000 with seven brothers. And some people will hear that and 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:52.880 they'll be like, you must have been so spoiled and 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.280 so cherished, and it's like no, I was, you know, 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:59.680 got the crappy eaten out of me. Like anything anything 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.440 that yeah, anything that was like remotely girlish was like 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:06.320 really not cool. Um And also it um I often 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:08.840 had a situation where they would get paired off and 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.360 I would be alone. So girlhood was sort of seen 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:14.600 as a negative thing. I was also really shy, and 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:18.040 I had no skills or talents whatsoever. So you know, 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:21.440 other kids might go and have you know, violin lessons, 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:26.040 or play soccer or do gymnastics, and I was really 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:30.000 um unskilled at all of those things. And so for me, 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:33.520 the default was always to read in books because things 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:35.920 felt better in there. Um. You know, there were sisters 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:38.640 in books, and everybody got along, and you know, parents 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:41.560 made like homemade meals that weren't you know, steam broccoli 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:44.120 and baked potatoes and just like all these great things 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:46.520 would happen in books or you could you know, be 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:51.560 heroin like Meg Murray and A Wrinkle in Time. Yeah, 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:55.600 did your um? Were your parents very like you said? 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:57.920 They really were? They just leaving you alone and so 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:00.440 you were able to read whatever you so shows? Or 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:03.640 were they encouraging of the topics and things that you 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:05.639 were interested in. Well, you know, I grew up in 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:08.199 the great era of underparenting. You know, it was like 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.760 take benine to collect and like and multiply it. So 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:14.280 a lot of the time they weren't all too aware. 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:16.439 But I was also a very good kid, even though 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.560 I'd like to read about dark things. And I remember Um. 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:22.120 I remember one time going and getting a book. Um, 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:24.919 and now I was probably ten years old, and I, 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:26.680 you know, would pick things out because of the cover. 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:29.600 I didn't know what I was doing, and I realized 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:31.240 as I got into it that it was a lesbian 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.840 love story and fairly explicit, and I actually turned it in. 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:37.199 I was like, I don't think this is appropriate for me. 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:40.320 Such a goody two shoes. I'm obsessed by the way. 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:42.840 I can only call that because I would have done 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:47.560 the exact same. Although although then fast forward about a 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:51.840 year later, I was reading Bob Woodward's Wired, which was 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:54.240 the John Belushi story, and you know, I think my 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:59.040 mom saw it and confiscated it. Yeah, that should not 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.159 that's not that's that's a lot I was. I think, 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:07.560 oh my god. Yea, like, you're not reading about a harmonatic. 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:17.359 I mentioned this already, but so I'm a reader, Adam 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:19.359 is not. Are there any I'm not sure how it 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:21.480 is in your household, but are there any tips on 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:25.360 how to encourage partners to cross over the reading rainbow 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:29.480 so to speak? I mean, I feel, I mean, we 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:33.840 have you talked about, like reading right now in our 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:37.000 son's life is very ritualistic. It's what he does first 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:40.120 thing in the morning, um, when he wakes up, and 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:42.439 you know, it's a good thirty minutes, and it's what 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.520 he does before bed and and he demands it, you 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:46.960 know what I mean, He's like, is it time to 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:48.920 read books now? Like it's a it's a real thing. 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:53.240 And I actually took this idea from Carrie Washington. But 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:56.800 I didn't need I was one of the many perks 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.000 of being an actor is for some reason, when you 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:01.160 get pregnant and a baby, they send you a ton 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:03.639 of free stuff, which I then give to all of 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:07.080 my other actor friends or my siblings or whatever. But 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:09.800 I didn't need anything for my baby shower, so I 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:12.720 just asked everyone to please bring their favorite children's book 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:17.760 and it was awesome. Um. And not to say, most 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:19.840 of your mom is out there listening, register for whatever 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:22.359 the hell you need, because it's the opportunity, and you 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:24.520 spend a lot of time getting other people stuff, so 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:27.679 make the most of it. But for me, the a 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:29.920 great idea. I didn't need stuff. Or if your mom 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:31.400 out there who's had a ton of hand me downs 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:33.160 and you don't need stuff, I have to say, like 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.800 getting a children's book from each friend and having each 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:40.000 person right in that it was from them is so 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:43.080 great because not only does my son have this awesome 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:46.520 library right now, and people were really cool they gave 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:48.840 books that were for all different ages. But then they 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:50.840 also you know, they when he Albi knows now when 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:52.679 he opens the book, like, oh, this one's from carry 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:54.879 or this one's from aunt Tera. So we have a 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:58.760 really good um base right now. And again we read 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:01.199 morning and night and my husband has really taken to it, 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:03.760 which was great, Like he reads a lots because my 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:05.840 husband is not a reader, but he's only two and 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:07.760 a half. How do we keep this up? How do 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:11.280 my husband and I keep encouraging reading in our son? 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:13.399 All Right, I have a lot to say about this, 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:16.159 But one thing I will say that I think might 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:20.280 influence your husband if he is prone to is he 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:24.520 if he's easily influenced by research and by data. Here 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:26.760 are a few facts that you can arm yourself with. 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:31.720 One is that we know that modeling reading behavior is 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:35.240 hugely influential. If you want to raise a reader, be 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:39.160