1 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Invention. I'm Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. 2 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: And you might know Robert and I from our other 3 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: show Stuff to Blow your Mind, our other show in 4 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: the house, Stuff Works Network. But today you apparently have 5 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: somehow wandered into our brand new Curiosity Store of Inventions, 6 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: where we explore human ingenuity for good, for ill all 7 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: of the stuff that comes out of our imaginations and 8 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: becomes the technology we use every day or maybe just 9 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: read about in history books. Yes, the hallowed halls of technological, systematic, 10 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: and cultural invention, the very human machines, customs, and systems 11 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 1: that altered the course of history. And today we're talking 12 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: about one of the most useful inventions of all time. 13 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: It's got to be the And Robert, before I say it, 14 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: do you say it like a French guy's name, or 15 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: like what a fish breathes with? I go with guillotine 16 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: because it sounds a little more like an open face 17 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: sandwich that way, and also it has the the G 18 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: has more of a sound to it. Yeah, I like 19 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: how it sounds kind of like the minotar the guillotine. 20 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: But but apparently guillotine in English is also somewhat acceptable pronunciation. 21 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: I don't think there's a firm ruling one way or 22 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: another from the lords of English pronunciation. Now, one thing 23 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: is for certain as we we venture into this world 24 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: of the guillotine. Beheadings themselves are just a time honored 25 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: way for one human being to kill another. It's a 26 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: wound that still can't be repaired, and it is without 27 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 1: question certain death. Now, one thing I was thinking about 28 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: to illustrate this is what would you even say is 29 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: the quote cause of death in a beheading so well, 30 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: blood loss, loss of oxygen to the brain. Basically, it 31 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: just cuts off. It cuts off your all your plumbing 32 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: systems from all of your your your your thinking systems. Yeah, 33 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: it makes it makes you think about how often when 34 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: you hear phrases like clinically dead that can refer to 35 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: something about circulation, like this sation of the heartbeat. Um. 36 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: But yeah, so when you separate the head from the body, 37 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: I guess you've got to be really rigorous about what 38 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: you mean by dead, though I guess it also happens 39 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: pretty quickly so you don't have to worry about it 40 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: too much. But yeah, all the blood comes out of 41 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: the head immediate loss of blood pressure, which means the 42 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 1: brain can't get oxygen, which means the brain can't work. Yeah, 43 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: and it's something that's just cemented in our mythology as well, right, 44 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: I mean, you want to kill a vampire, you wanna 45 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: kill a medusa, you want to kill a highlander, what 46 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: do you do? You cut their head off? There is 47 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: something just supernaturally potent about this form of death. Well, 48 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: I think that's absolutely true, and you see that in 49 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: a lot of archaeological finds of beheadings from human history. Like, 50 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 1: here's a kind of strange fact. A lot of times 51 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: when you find beheaded humans from ages past, there appears 52 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: to be evidence that the people were beheaded posthumously. Why 53 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 1: did that happen? There are a lot of ways you 54 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: could explain it. I mean that you would take a 55 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: dead person and cut off their head. Maybe there's some 56 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: sort of ritual function going on here, might be human sacrifice. 57 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: Maybe there's some kind of symbolic form of justice being done, 58 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: if it's the corps of a criminal or an enemy 59 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: or something. But a lot of times it appears like 60 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 1: it might be a form of apotropaic magic, the kind 61 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: of magic you would use to ward off evil or 62 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 1: bad spirits in the same way that you might find 63 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: a skeleton from hundreds of years ago with an iron 64 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: rod driven through its hard or with a brick in 65 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: its mouth, and say the tombs underneath Venice. Yeah, there's 66 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,959 Speaker 1: like a dismantling of the the individual that that seems 67 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: evident in these acts um you know, and we see 68 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: acts of ritual decapitation dating back thousands of years. For instance, 69 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: there's evidence in Brazil that dates back to at least 70 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: nine thousand BC, and it's uh. In it we find 71 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: a human skull draped and amputated, hands palm side down, 72 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: covering the face as if as if in grief. That's 73 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: from place called Lapa Dosanto in uh in South America 74 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: and Brazil, and a lot of bones have been discovered there. 75 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: And it's not always easy to determine how to read 76 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: the intention behind what you see in these people, but that, yeah, 77 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: there were all kinds of forms of of apparently posthumous 78 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: mutilation going on in the way these bones are arranged. 79 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: For example, sometimes you'll find skulls they're full of finger 80 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: bones inside the skulls. What was going on? What made 81 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: the people want to do that? It seems like it 82 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: may well have formed some kind of magical intention, but 83 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: what was it? Indeed, we can only guess now. Another 84 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: kind of significance that beheading has often had in the 85 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: ancient world was that it was one of the many 86 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: forms of execution practiced, of course in ancient Greece and Rome. Uh. 87 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: And in fact, our terms decapitation and capital punishment both 88 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: come from the Latin from capit meaning head, so like 89 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 1: capital punishment is punishment of the head, or that you 90 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: you pay, you pay for a crime with your head 91 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: by separating it from the other stuff. Uh. And there's 92 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 1: some evidence that the ancient Greeks and Romans viewed beheading 93 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: is not a particularly harsh punishment, but more as a 94 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: particularly noble and honorable form of execution. And you see 95 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: strains of this thinking carried into much more recent times, 96 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: like when beheading was deployed as an execution method throughout 97 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: the history of England. Not always, but it was most 98 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: often reserved for the aristocracy, while common criminals might more 99 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: often be killed in what was considered a less dignified 100 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 1: way like hanging. Yeah, I mean, obviously, beheadings in general 101 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 1: have probably been occurring as long as we've had weapons 102 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 1: fine enough to inflict the blow. Uh, you know, as 103 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: long as we had, you know, something that could knock 104 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: or cut a head off. And then when you start 105 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 1: looking at these, uh, the the use of the of 106 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: of a sword or an axe and execution, A lot 107 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: of it comes down to the craftsmanship of that weapon, 108 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: but also the skill of the individual using it. Yeah, 109 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 1: that's that's a real kicker, isn't it. I Mean, when 110 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: you contract somebody to do a job for you, a 111 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: lot of times if you don't have a previous relationship 112 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: with them, you know, you don't know what kind of 113 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: work they're gonna do. You want to find those people 114 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: you can trust, but it's hard to find a trustworthy 115 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: executioner that you know is going to cut your head 116 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 1: off right right, Like i' you really gotta put yourself 117 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: in the in the shoes of the condemned here right. Uh. 118 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: You know, obviously you don't want to be stoned to death. 119 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: You know, you don't want to be thrown into that 120 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: burlap sack with two wild animals and thrown into the river. 121 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,280 Speaker 1: You would probably prefer a nice clean beheading, but nobody 122 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: wants a less than perfect beheading. If the local warlord 123 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: is doing it, you know, that's one thing. Uh, you know, unless, however, 124 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: you're worried about the war lord inflicting an intentionally less 125 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 1: than perfect stroke, you know, out of personal malice. If 126 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: if it's a professional executioner that's doing the honors, well 127 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: that's either really good or really bad, depending on how 128 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: you look at it. Like the idea of a trained 129 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: specialist doing the deed, that sounds good. But on the 130 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: other hand, at death via the sort of person who 131 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: either seeks this line of work out or is not 132 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: suited for any other form of labor, that's a little 133 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: uh frightening, I would say. Plus, do you really want 134 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: to be toward the bottom of an executioner's list for 135 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: the day after they're tired from swinging that big old axe, 136 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: like it's your turn on Friday afternoon? Yeah, like you 137 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: kind of I want to be up there. I would 138 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: want to be up there first. Let me get that 139 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: that first blow in on me. I must admit, I 140 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: don't think I had ever much considered the horrors of 141 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: a weak strike from the executioner until Game of Thrones 142 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: came around, and then that I suddenly began to think, 143 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: like oh yes, this could go very wrong. But George rr. 144 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: Martin did not make up this concept obviously, of of 145 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: being weak at swinging the executioner sword or the axe. 146 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: History is replete with stories of botch to be headings, 147 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: and they are horrific and unfortunately sometimes kind of funny. 148 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: I want to tell you a couple. Uh, this one's 149 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: not so funny. And this concerns Mary, the Queen of Scots. 150 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: So during the reign of Protestant Queen Elizabeth the First 151 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: of England in the sixteenth century, there was obviously a 152 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: lot of anxiety about succession because Elizabeth had been born 153 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: to King Henry the Eighth and his second wife Anne 154 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: Boleyn after Henry's first marriage to Catherine e Verragon had 155 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: been annulled, and obviously lots of people at the time, 156 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: especially some Catholics, had opinions about that right. And Elizabeth's 157 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: cousin Mary Stewart was born to James the Fifth of Scotland, 158 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: who was descended from a legitimate royal line, and so 159 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: many Catholic supporters thought, well, maybe Mary actually has a 160 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: more legitimate claim to the throne than Elizabeth does, and 161 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 1: so Mary was eventually implicated in an assassination plot against 162 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: Elizabeth in fifteen eighty six, at least she was allegedly 163 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: involved in it, and she was sentenced to execution in 164 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: fifty seven. So you've got Mary Stewart, Mary Queen of Scott's, 165 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: going to her execution and the story goes that she's 166 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: blindfolded and she gets helped to the block and the executioner, 167 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: wearing all black, raises up his axe to kill her, 168 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: but instead of cutting through her neck, he misses and 169 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: he hits her on the head head and then some 170 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: report that she murmurs Sweet Jesus in shock before the 171 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: executioner raises his acts a second time and then strikes 172 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 1: again and still fails to cut her head off completely. 173 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: And finally he quote just sawed through what remained of 174 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: her neck. That's that's that's rough for Mary. Yeah, and 175 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: this is you know, this is presumed main event beheading here. 176 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: So right, this is before a royal audience, right, so 177 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: this would have to be either an act of just 178 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: just just an utterly inept executioner or one that is 179 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: intentionally doing a bad job out of mouth. It's like 180 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,199 Speaker 1: there seems to be very little room in between. It's 181 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: hard to understand what happened here, because you know, we 182 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: only have accounts from the time, which may not even 183 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: be fully reliable. We're relying on what people told us 184 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: they saw there, right, and there could be some objective 185 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: in crafting a version of the tale that sounds more 186 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: inapt than it actually was. But it actually gets worse 187 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 1: because apparently so. It's described sometimes that the executioner appeared 188 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: horrified at what was going on, but the head's my 189 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: After he got her head off, he took hold of 190 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: the severed head and he held it up in front 191 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: of the crowd so he could hold up the severed 192 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 1: head and say, God save Queen Elizabeth. But he grasped 193 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: Mary's head by the hair, and it turned out the 194 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: hair was a wig, so the head fell down and 195 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: rolled away, leaving him holding only a hacked up, bloody 196 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: wig while proclaiming his true queen. And then another part 197 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: of the story, maybe maybe not to be believed, is 198 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: that after Mary's head rolled away, her lips kept moving 199 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: as if she was talking or praying. Okay, some of 200 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: that sounds like it might have been embellished, but it 201 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: also sounds like this guy was a real hack no 202 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: pun intended. Well, I got an even worse hack for you, 203 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: because there was a seventeenth century English executioner named Jack 204 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: Catch Catch spelled like catch up, catch yeah, or like 205 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: what's the kid in the Pokemon's. I have no idea. 206 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: Our very knowledgeable producer Paul just tells me it is 207 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: Ash catch him, Okay, I guess he's got to catch him, 208 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: all right. It's like Jack Ketch him right, the hard writer. 209 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: That's what comes to my mind. I don't well anyway, 210 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: this is Jack Ketch K E T C H so 211 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: Jack Ketch birthday unknown died in sixteen eighty six, who 212 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: was notorious for being a complete screw up at his 213 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 1: job and bungling executions. A couple of examples. In sixteen 214 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: eighty three, Ketch performed the beheading of William Lord Russell, 215 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: who was convicted for treason in his role of in 216 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: his role in the Rye House plot, which was against 217 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: King Charles the Second of England, and Catches beheading of 218 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: Russell was reportedly just this clumsy horror, with Catch whacking 219 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: Russell again and again with the axe, but repeatedly failing 220 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: to get his head off, and apparently after this Catch 221 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: defended himself by complaining that Russell wouldn't hold still, And 222 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: then you got the second one. Later, James, Duke of Monmouth, 223 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: he went to the block for the Monmouth Rebellion of 224 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: sixteen eighty five, and he tried to pay Catch not 225 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: to screw up his execution. He's recorded as saying, quote, 226 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: here are six guinea for you. Pray, do your business well. 227 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: Do not serve me as you did my lord Russell. 228 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 1: I have heard you struck him three or four times. 229 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: Then Monmouth gave three more guineas to his servant who 230 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: was standing nearby, and told his servant to pay Catch 231 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 1: only if Ketch did the beheading correctly, and then Catch 232 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: said I hope I shall. Then Monmouth asked to feel 233 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: the axe blade, and he did, and he complained that 234 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: this is too dull, and Ketch said, no, it's sharp enough, 235 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: it'll be heavy enough. So Monmouth got down in place 236 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,439 Speaker 1: to accept his fate, and Catch brought the axe down 237 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: on Monmouth. And at this point it is reported that 238 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: after he got hit, Monmouth lifted his head up and 239 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 1: turned around and glared at Ketch angrily. Then he got 240 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: back down so Ketch could hit him again, and Catch 241 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: hit him several more times, failing each time to be 242 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: head him. Then Catch got frustrated and tried to walk 243 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: away and quit in the middle of the execution while 244 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: Monmouth was still alive. But the crowd out yelled at 245 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: him and told him to go back and finish it. 246 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: So finally he went back. After some more blows uh 247 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: and the use of a knife, he finally managed to 248 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: get the duke's head off. Well that's awful, Like, this 249 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: guy is a true hack. I wonder if that's where 250 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: the word hack comes from. Perhaps, Uh yeah, but so 251 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: you had people whose job it was to administer what 252 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 1: I guess was supposed to be the more humane form 253 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: of execution at the time. I mean, this is different 254 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: than being you know, uh, tortured and hanged and drawn 255 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: and quartered and all that. But he this is obviously 256 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: not going the way it's supposed to. And if we're 257 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: going inspired by the Greek and Roman model, something is 258 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: obviously wrong here. Like not only is it unnecessarily painful, 259 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 1: this does not really seem like an honorable death. This 260 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: seems humiliating. Yeah, there's nothing noble about this, you know, 261 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: it's this is not a finely craft instrument wielded by 262 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: a by and by an expert practitioner. This is just 263 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: a clumsy exercise and horror. But what if mechanical controls 264 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: could be said at in place the same level of perfection, 265 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 1: regardless of whoever you know happens to be wearing the hood, 266 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: how tired they are, what sort of weapon they're using, 267 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: or what sort of six stuff they're into. A machine 268 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,439 Speaker 1: that cannot get tired, It can't hesitate or engage in 269 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: unfair punishment. It's not gonna judge you based on your 270 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:26,359 Speaker 1: your royal or commoner status. A good blade, some gravity, 271 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: and a simple frame with a necklock, well that would 272 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: be the guillotine. All right, We're gonna take a quick break, 273 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: and when we come back we will discuss some precursors 274 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: to the guillotine and the guillotine itself. All right, we're back. 275 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: So the guillotine of late eighteenth century France, which I'm 276 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: sure you've heard about before, that was involved in the 277 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: French Revolution, the Reign of Terror, the first French Republic. 278 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: That guillotine was not the first human head removal machine, 279 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: not by a long shot. And we're not saying it was. 280 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: You know that it was predated by people swinging in 281 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: axe or a sword with their hands, of course it was. 282 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: But there were organized machines for doing this job more 283 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: efficiently and in a more consistent way before the guillotine 284 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: was instituted in France, right, and and they worked along 285 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: the same principles. They maybe they weren't quite as refined, 286 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: but essentially the idea was there that we should say that. 287 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: It was only in the aftermath of the French Revolution 288 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: that people began referring to decapitation machines as guillotines. That's 289 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: where the name comes from. Yes, they had equally less 290 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: refined names. They had more grizzly names. One fines. We'll 291 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: meet a couple in a moment. So as for who 292 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: invented the first general decapitation machine, this is totally unknown, 293 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: lost to history, and in fact, we don't even know 294 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: for sure how many societies used a device like this. 295 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: There There are a lot of tales, but many of 296 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: these tales might not even be true. We don't know 297 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,239 Speaker 1: for sure. Right and then how often is the individual 298 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: uh celebrated for creating such a thing? As we'll discover 299 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: the naming of the guillotine, It doesn't really relate to 300 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: the individual or individuals that created it, right. I mean, 301 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people who create execution devices don't want 302 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: to be associated with And when you find the people 303 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: who do want to be associated with them or don't mind, 304 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: you've got to kind of wonder about those people. But 305 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 1: um So, there are a couple of known mechanical beheading 306 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: devices from England that predated the French guillotine, and one 307 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: is known as the Halifax Gibbet. So the how Halifax 308 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: is a town in West Yorkshire in England, and it 309 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: had this infamous beheading machine known as the Halifax Gibbet, 310 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: which was allegedly used mostly to punish petty theft. So 311 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: people would steal some small sum of money or something 312 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: worth not very much, some cloth or something, and into 313 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: the Halifax Gibbet they would go. It was described in 314 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: an eighteen thirty seven history by an author named William 315 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: White in the following way quote. The executions always took 316 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: place on the Great Mark at day in order to 317 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: strike the more terror into the neighborhood. When the criminal 318 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: was brought to the gibbet, which stood a little way 319 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: out of the town where part of the stone platform 320 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: may still be seen on Gibbet Hill. The execution was 321 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: performed by means of an engine, which was raised upon 322 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: a platform four ft high and thirteen feet square, faced 323 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: on every side with stone, and ascended by a flight 324 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: of steps. In the middle of this platform was placed 325 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 1: two upright pieces of timber fifteen feet high, joined at 326 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: the top by a transverse beam. Within these was a 327 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 1: square block of wood four feet and a half long, 328 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: which moved up and down by means of grooves made 329 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: for that purpose. To the lower part of the sliding 330 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: block was fastened in iron axe of the weight of 331 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: seven pounds and twelve ounces. The axe, thus fixed, was 332 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: drawn up to the top by a cord and pulley. 333 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: At the end of the cord was a pin, which, 334 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: being fixed to the block, kept it suspended till the 335 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 1: moment of execution. When the culprit, having placed his head 336 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: on the block, the pin was withdrawn and his head 337 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 1: was instantly severed from his body. If the offender was 338 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: condemned for stealing an ox, a sheep, or a horse, 339 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: the end of the rope was fastened to the beast, which, 340 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,919 Speaker 1: being driven, pulled out the pin and thus became the executioner. 341 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: In other cases, the bailiff for his servant cut the 342 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: rope and allowed the axe to descend. It's a little 343 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: unnecessary complexity involving fim animals, but otherwise the basic principles 344 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: of the guillotine as we've come to know it. Yeah, 345 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: it's more or less there there. There might be some 346 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: design refinements we come on later, but this is the idea. 347 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: It's it's a reliable, consistent machine that's not going to 348 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: mess up. Right. And of course it doesn't sound like 349 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 1: it was necessarily a custom blade, or maybe it was, 350 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: but it's very much based on the design of an 351 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: axe blade. Yeah. And when you see illustrations, it looks 352 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 1: like just a large axe head on the bottom of 353 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: a huge wooden block. Uh So, this beheading machine of 354 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: Halifax was famous enough that the English poet John Taylor 355 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: are referenced it alongside the notoriously tough police of Kingston 356 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: upon Hull in a poem uh that that I thought 357 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,679 Speaker 1: was pretty good. He writes, there is a proverb and 358 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: a prayer withal that we may not to Three strange 359 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:19,120 Speaker 1: places fall from Hull, from Halifax, from Hell. 'tis thus 360 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 1: from all these three, good Lord deliver us at Halifax. 361 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: The law so sharp doth deal that whoso more than 362 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: one threepence doth steal. They have a lynn that wondrous, 363 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: quick and well, since thieves all headless unto Heaven or Hell. 364 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: From Hell, each man says, Lord, deliver me, because from 365 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: Hell can no redemption be. Men may escape from Hull 366 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: and Halifax, but sure in Hell there is a heavier tax. 367 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,880 Speaker 1: It sounds pretty good. Well. I like how it's sort 368 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 1: of captures two themes there. One is that how the 369 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: Halifax jibbit is deadly and something to be feared, but 370 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: it also contrasts it with the supposed tortures of Hell. 371 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: I guess again in a sizing that, well, it's not 372 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: as torturous as many of the other methods that are 373 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: being used. Yeah, he's almost describing it like it's a 374 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: like it's a plane ticket to to greater rewards or suffering, 375 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: depending on how one supernatural revenge fantasy is playing out here. 376 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: But on the other hand, I like that it is 377 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: to a certain extent farm animals. Uh, you know. Notwithstanding, 378 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: it is to a certain extent saving the horrors of 379 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: an afterlife for those imagined afterlife and not trying to 380 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 1: um embody them too much in the act of execution itself. Yeah. Now, 381 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: whether that's actually a good thing or not, we can 382 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 1: discuss later, but it does seem to be there's at 383 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: least there's at least a superficial kind of humaneness to write, 384 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: even though it seems to be being lumped on people 385 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: who commit extremely pent crimes and not and no matter 386 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: what you think, really probably deserving of death. But there's 387 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: some strange stories about how people reacted to what happened 388 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: with at the Halifax gibbet. The story in Thomas Wright 389 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,719 Speaker 1: tells a legend quote of a countrywoman who was writing 390 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: by the gibbet on her hampers to the market just 391 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: at the execution of a criminal when the acts chopped 392 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,959 Speaker 1: his neck through with such force that the head jumped 393 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: into one of her hampers, or as others say, seized 394 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: her apron with the teeth and they're stuck for some time. 395 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: I don't believe that's true, or at least the teeth 396 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: I don't believe. Again, we're coming back to the sort 397 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: of inherent comedy. I mean, it's true gallows humor, uh 398 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: that comes with beheading executions. But there's an interesting observation 399 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,400 Speaker 1: from the Halifax historian John Crabtree, who has a sort 400 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: of attitude about what stories like this mean. He writes, quote, 401 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 1: it is useless employing words about this fair, but the 402 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: circumstance may serve to show with what apathy the country 403 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 1: people regarded this mode of punishment. Their minds were evidently 404 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: hardened by such exhibitions, and the fact develops the inadequacy 405 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 1: of such awful administrations of justice to produce that proper 406 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 1: moral and salutary effect which might have been anticipated. Such scenes, 407 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,640 Speaker 1: often repeated, appear to harden rather than soften, to stupefy, 408 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 1: rather than awaken, the sensibilities of man's nature. And I 409 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: think we should come back to that thought later on. Indeed, 410 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: all right, so what else do we have in terms 411 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 1: of proto guillotine machines. Well, a quicker story is just 412 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: a copy essentially of the Halifax Gibbitt known as the 413 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,919 Speaker 1: Scottish Maiden. So James Douglas, the fourth Earl of Morton, 414 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: who was the ruler of Scotland from fifteen seventy two 415 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 1: to fifteen seventy eight. He was alleged at some point 416 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: to have introduced the decapitation machine to his country of Scots, 417 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: inspired by the Halifax Gibbet. Allegedly he at some point 418 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: traveled through Halifax and he was so inspired by the 419 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: gibbet that he thought, well, I should share this same 420 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: technology with my countrymen. So a similar machine was built 421 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: out of oak and it can be transported around the 422 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,360 Speaker 1: country to perform beheadings wherever. But it was often accepting 423 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 1: the condemned at Edinburgh, and according to the National Museums 424 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: of Scotland, crimes that could get you sent to the 425 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 1: Scottish Maiden included murder, incest, stealing, treason, adultery, forgery and robbery. 426 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: But there's an ironic twist. So James Douglas the Earl, 427 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 1: fourth Earl of Morton was a supporter of James the 428 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: sixth and Morton opposed the Catholic faction of Mary, Queen 429 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: of Scott's who we discussed earlier, Mary Stewart, and he 430 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: was eventually implicated in a plot to murder Mary's second husband, 431 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 1: Lord Darnley, and was put to death in June, decapitated 432 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: by the Scottish Maiden that he brought to Scotland. Ah, 433 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 1: there's your poetic justice. Uh. And legends of that kind 434 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: will appear again and again in this episode actually, well 435 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: and even beyond this episode, because this isn't that a 436 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 1: common theme? The man destroyed by his own invention, by 437 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,639 Speaker 1: his own machine. It happens enough in the movies that 438 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: you should think it happens more often in reality. Though 439 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 1: in the movies it's especially common when that invention is 440 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: some kind of hybrid animal, like I created a shark ape, 441 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: and you know it swings from the trees, taking bites 442 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: out of people who could have known my shark ape 443 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: would turn on me, and yet it always happens. Alright, So, 444 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: as we've been discussing, there were similar devices already used 445 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: in Europe and had been for centuries before the guillotine 446 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: came around. But the individual who is often credited as 447 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: the inventor of the guillotine, uh is a French surgeon 448 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: and physiologist Antoine Louis who lives seventy three through seventeen 449 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: nine two. Yeah, he is often credited as the inventor, 450 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: though based on what I was reading, it appears to 451 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: me was maybe designed by some sort of committee of 452 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,360 Speaker 1: which Louis was the leader. Right, And this is actually 453 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,479 Speaker 1: all the more fitting when We really get to the 454 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: heart of the guillotine here, because it is this, this 455 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: thing that is it is this utilization of technology and 456 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: this there's a there's an air of civility to it. Uh. 457 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: This this taking something that is kind of that is 458 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,880 Speaker 1: rather barbaric and making it a little less so. Well, 459 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:15,360 Speaker 1: it's bureaucratic violence. Yes, it very much embodies the idea 460 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: of retributive violence by the state, taken out of the 461 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: emotional hands of the single executioner and placed into the 462 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 1: hands of a disembodied machine that is created by a 463 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: committee through drafts. Yes. You know, we have another episode 464 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: that we're recording this week on vending machines, and it's 465 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: amazing this the similarities involved here, this this these sometimes 466 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 1: these struggles over what exactly is happening when a machine 467 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: does the bidding of a human. If a machine is vending, say, 468 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: blasphemous literature, as we discussed in this other episode, then 469 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: who is it fault foresaid literature sale? And uh and 470 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: there's a sense of that here too. It's like the 471 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: bureaucracy has condemned you to death, the machine is actually 472 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: doing the execution. Uh, we're just merely you know, pushing 473 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: the button, pulling the string, etcetera. To carry out this judgment, right, 474 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: But we do at least have Antoine Louis to associate 475 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 1: with the creation of the machine, even if it wasn't 476 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: just him alone. But because of his association with it, 477 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: it was often early on it was called names. Not 478 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: the Guillotine yet, but names like the Louisette or the 479 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: louis Zone, which doesn't have as much of a ring 480 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,360 Speaker 1: to it. Oh, I kind of like it. I could 481 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: see executions by the Louisette. Yeah, I guess it would 482 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: have grown on us. But at any rate, later it 483 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: definitely came to be named after Joseph Ignace Guillotan, who 484 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 1: lived seventy through eighteen fourteen. He was a physician, uh, 485 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: he was a National Assembly member, and he played a 486 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: major role in passing the legislation that made death by 487 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 1: machine the law. The loose idea here is that it 488 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: would this kind of legislation would provide the best possible 489 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: version of beheading to all classes of society. And we 490 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 1: do have to point out that bite some urban legends 491 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: out there, Guillotine himself was not killed by his own machine, 492 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: and he wasn't actually a huge fan of execution either. 493 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: It's not like he was a huge execution enthusiasts. Well, no, 494 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: exactly the opposite. Guilloton opposed the death penalty. He wanted 495 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 1: the abolition of the death penalty, but he didn't think 496 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: that he could accomplish that directly. Right, this seemed the 497 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: best reasonable next step, Right, It's like, if I can't 498 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: we can't eradicate it, we're going to have it. We 499 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: might as well make it clean and uh and fair 500 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 1: to all involved. According to a popular legend, Guilloton was 501 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: born when his pregnant mother was out walking one day 502 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 1: and she overheard the screams of a condemned criminal being 503 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: broken on the wheel. And breaking on the wheel was 504 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: you know, a classic death by torture type method, where 505 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 1: a person would be stretched out on a wheel in 506 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: a kind of starfish poson. They'd have their limbs broken 507 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: with an iron rod or with a club. Just insane brutality. 508 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 1: So he is very much opposed to that sort of thing, 509 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: not only just the bar the barbaric nature of the execution, 510 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 1: but the public nature of it, the idea that that 511 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: women and children, uh, just innocent bystanders might just walk 512 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:17,239 Speaker 1: through town and witness such uh, such horror. So he 513 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: was thinking, maybe if less children end up watching this, 514 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: the better, Yes, and make it. Yeah, it's more systematic, 515 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: it's more you know that the act itself is less flashy. 516 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,199 Speaker 1: And then we're just gonna make it less for performance. 517 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: So Guillot Tom was not out there lobbying to get 518 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: this machine named after his family. No, No, it just 519 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: it ended up sticking. Now, a cool little fact here 520 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: that sounds like something right out of an Alan Moore 521 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: comic book. But along with Benjamin Franklin, uh, Guillotine investigated 522 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: the work of friends mesmer of mesmerism, you know, the 523 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 1: the form of hypnotism that we had back in the 524 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: day u and they investigated him on behalf of King 525 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: Louis the League of Extraordinary Gentleman exactly. So another way 526 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: of thinking, you alluded to this a minute ago, Robert 527 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: like the idea that it would be the best method 528 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: for all the classes. So another way of thinking about 529 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: the motivation for the institution of the guillotine at this 530 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: time in history was that it supposedly extended the democratic 531 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: and egalitarian principles of the French Revolution to common criminals. Essentially, 532 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: extending them the courtesy of the honorable beheading that was 533 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: more often reserved for nobles and aristocrats, instead of more 534 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: shameful and common and painful deaths like hanging, burning, or 535 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: breaking on the wheel, which you were more likely to 536 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: get if you were just some lower class petty criminal. Now, 537 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: as for the idea Guillotin had, thinking that this would 538 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: shield children from the gruesome practice of execution, unfortunately this 539 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: did not work out. I was reading a section from 540 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,479 Speaker 1: a book called Children's Toys of Bygone Days, A History 541 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: of play things of all people's from prehistoric times to 542 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century by Carl Grober, published in nineteen and 543 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: the author writes, quote, the worst monstrosity of the kind 544 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: was the outcome of the French Revolution, which indeed was 545 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: over rich in aberrations of taste. The toy shops put 546 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: on the market little guillotines with which little patriots could 547 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: be head figures of aristocrats. They're still survives some specimens 548 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: of this pretty and diverting machine, one of which bears 549 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: the date seventeen ninety four, and he's got an illustration. 550 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: These were not models, but pure toys, And in proof 551 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: of this we have the King's evidence from one whom 552 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: we should never suspect of wishing to give so bloodthirsty 553 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: a toy to his little son. And here the author 554 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,959 Speaker 1: is speaking of the romantic poet Johann wolf Kang von Gota. 555 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: So Gruber tells the story that in December seventeen nine, 556 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: Girta wrote a letter to his mother and Frankfort, asking 557 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 1: if you would buy a toy guillotine for his little son, 558 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: and she replied, dear son, anything I can do to 559 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: please you is gladly done and gives me joy. But 560 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,719 Speaker 1: to buy such an infamous implement of murder that I 561 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: will not do at any price. If I had authority, 562 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: the maker should be put in the stocks, and I 563 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: would have the machine publicly burnt by the common executioner. 564 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: And I guess this is sort of the seventeen nineties 565 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: equivalent of like asking your grandmother to buy you a 566 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: copy of Doom for Christmas in the nineteen nineties. Yeah, well, 567 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: I'm glad that you brought up Doom here. And just 568 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: because it's it's easy for us to look back on 569 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: this account and think, oh, these children of a more 570 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: barbarous age. But go to any toy store and look 571 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: at the machine gun based toys that are on display. There, 572 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: all the various guns like true true murder weapons. Um, 573 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: not even methods of bureaucratic execution, but weapons of just 574 00:31:55,200 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: wanton violence. Uh. These are all represented in toys even today. Uh. Likewise, 575 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: I can't help but think back on how much I 576 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: wanted the slime pit when I was a kid. What 577 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 1: is that? This was a master's of the universe. Place 578 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 1: set the device and basically you would lock he man 579 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: or some other figure into the machine and it was 580 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 1: like shaped like a skull, and then it would dump 581 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: slime on top of the head of the poor hero. 582 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: And it was I think that maybe the actual lore 583 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: of it was like I would make them mutate or something, 584 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: but it was very much Uh. It was very much 585 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: like a guillotine, except instead of a blade, it was slime. 586 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: It was like clearly an instrument of execution, of of 587 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: ritualized death for your toys. So you're arranging an execution 588 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: for he man exactly. So you know, the the idea 589 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: of a toy guillotine, it makes perfect sense. Uh. We can't. 590 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: We can only distance ourselves from such an idea so much. 591 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: Though I also have to wonder I somehow detect between 592 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: the lines. This could have been one of those situations 593 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: where and Robert, I bet you're familiar with this, where 594 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: a dad buys or requests a toy for his child 595 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: because secretly he wants to play. Uh. In fact, Gerta 596 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: wrote in faust quote ages no second childhood age makes 597 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: plain children. We were true children. We remain again much 598 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: like it is today. Now we mentioned that Guillaton was 599 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: responsible for introducing legislation that would eventually lead the French 600 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: National Assembly to say, okay, we're only going to be 601 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 1: killing people by beheading machine. Now that that's that's going 602 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: to be the new method of execution. That's what's humane, 603 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: that's what the state should be up to. And so 604 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: I think in just a minute we should turn to 605 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: the machine itself. But I just wanted quickly before we 606 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 1: do that, to discuss where it is that this rumor 607 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: came from. The Guillotan was killed by the machine that 608 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: he recommended putting in place for executions in France. And 609 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: I think I know maybe a few threads of where 610 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: the story came from. Obviously, we had that ironic story 611 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: of the Earl of Morton earlier, right, so we can 612 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: see how that might have influenced confused the telling. Right. 613 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: But then there are a couple of other examples. So 614 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,320 Speaker 1: Dr Antoine Louis, the secretary of the Academy of Medicine 615 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 1: and physician to King Louis, the one who we talked 616 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 1: about earlier, chairing that committee that designed the device, He 617 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,919 Speaker 1: was actually temporarily condemned to die in the machine that 618 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: he designed or helped design, though he escaped this fate 619 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: basically during a change of power. So he narrowly escaped 620 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: going to the guillotine himself. And then King Louis the sixteenth, 621 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 1: who was interested in mechanical engineering, is said to have 622 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: made refinements to the design of the guillotine, like recommending 623 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: an angled blade while he was still in power, before 624 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 1: the device was eventually turned on the King himself and 625 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,439 Speaker 1: on his wife Marie Antoinette. And so there's another kind 626 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: of like creator and then killed by his creation irony there, 627 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: since he apparently or at least allegedly offered refinements to 628 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: the design. All right, well, and that note, We're gonna 629 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 1: take one more break, and when we come back we'll 630 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,760 Speaker 1: discuss the machine itself. In more detail, and we'll also 631 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: discuss its legacy. All right, we're back. So now we're 632 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: at the machine itself, the French guillotine of the seventeen 633 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: eighties and onward. And the question is was it actually built? Well, 634 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 1: of course it was. This one was definitely built. Some 635 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: of the inventions were discussing on this show, you know, 636 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: maybe didn't get out of the blueprint phase. This definitely 637 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: saw action. So after the legal standard of execution by 638 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: machine was approved by the National Assembly in sev the 639 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,879 Speaker 1: construction of the machine was delegated to a politician named 640 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:42,840 Speaker 1: Pierre Louis red Areo, who I'm always going to struggle 641 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 1: with that name, so I'll just call him Pierre here. Uh. 642 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: He apparently had trouble finding a contractor who could build 643 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 1: the machine since no one wanted their name associated with it, 644 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: and eventually found a taker was a taker from Germany, 645 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: and so the guillotine was constructed by a German harpsichord maker, 646 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,240 Speaker 1: aimed Tobias Schmidt. Apparently he also supplied a leather sack 647 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 1: that would catch heads. And now you can you just 648 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 1: gotta wonder about Tobias. I can just imagine the scenario 649 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,360 Speaker 1: it's like, so, honey, what are you working on today? 650 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 1: I get this new contracted. You know it pays well, 651 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,719 Speaker 1: it's gonna really help us out next month. Oh who 652 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:19,759 Speaker 1: are you putting a hots harpsichorde of chord for? Oh, 653 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 1: it's not quite a harpsichord. Well, I'm just imagining you 654 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,360 Speaker 1: in his shop while he's working on the guillotine. That 655 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: harpsichord music is constantly playing Dan Dan Dan Dan Dan dy. Anyway, 656 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 1: according to the memoirs of the French executioner Enrie Clement 657 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 1: Sans Song in eighteen seventy six, saints On came from 658 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 1: a line of a long line of executioners, and he 659 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,040 Speaker 1: so he has these memoirs about his family's exploits, cutting 660 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,240 Speaker 1: off heads and performing executions in France, and his memoirs 661 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,800 Speaker 1: are considered probably only partially reliable, but his up close 662 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: description of the workings of the guillotine is fairly straightforward. 663 00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 1: So I see, I feel like he's probably on the 664 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 1: track here. All right, I'm gonna read part of this 665 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna I'm gonna go for an executioner's voice 666 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: here do it on a scaffold from seven to eight 667 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 1: feet high. Two parallel bars are made fast in one end. 668 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: Their top part is united by a strong crossbar. To 669 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,439 Speaker 1: this crossbar is added a thick iron ring, and which 670 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: is past a rope which fixes and retains a ram. 671 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,720 Speaker 1: This is perpendicularly armed with a sharp and broad blade, 672 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 1: which gradually becomes broader on all its surface, so then 673 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: instead of striking perpendicularly, it strikes sideways, so that there 674 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 1: is not an inch of the blade that does not serve. 675 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,720 Speaker 1: The ram ways from pounds, and its weight is doubled 676 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 1: when it begins to slide down. It is enclosed in 677 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 1: the groove of the bars. A spring makes it fast 678 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: to the left bar. A band of iron descends along 679 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 1: the outside of the same bar, and the handle is 680 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 1: locked to a ring with a padlock, so that no 681 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: accident is possible and the weight only falls from the 682 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: executioner interferes to a way plank. Strong straps are fastened 683 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 1: by which the criminal is attached under the armpits and 684 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 1: over the legs, so that the body cannot move as 685 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 1: soon as the way plank goes down. The head being 686 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 1: between the bars is supported by a rounded crossbar. The 687 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: executioner's assistance lower another rounded crossbar. The head being thus 688 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: grooved in a perfect circle, which prevents it from moving 689 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,840 Speaker 1: in any way. This precaution is indispensable in regard to 690 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: the terrible inconveniences of fear. The executioner then touches the spring. 691 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: The whole affair is done so quickly that only the 692 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 1: thump of the blade when it slides down and forms 693 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 1: the spectators that the culprit is no longer of the living. 694 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,880 Speaker 1: The head falls into a basket full of brand and 695 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 1: the body is pushed into another wicker basket lined with 696 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:54,879 Speaker 1: very thick leather. That's a heck of a rating, Robert. Yeah, 697 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 1: that is going to do a number on my throat. 698 00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:00,360 Speaker 1: But I'm sorry, maybe I should have taken part of it, 699 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,359 Speaker 1: but I was just enjoying listening to your Henri Clement. Well, 700 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: there is a precision in his in his description of 701 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: the act that I felt like I had had to capture. 702 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 1: Now obviously, so he's described how the device works now, 703 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,799 Speaker 1: but they had to test it out before they could 704 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 1: make sure to try it on a human right. So 705 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: you know, you always wonder like, how do you test 706 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 1: a guillotine? You put a watermelon in there? Do you 707 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,440 Speaker 1: gallagher it? Well, I suppose you could, but it's kind 708 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 1: of a waste of a good melon, and ultimately you 709 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 1: want to test it on the real thing, right, So 710 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,440 Speaker 1: they use dead bodies. Oh yeah, also farm animals like 711 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: sheep and calves. Yeah, because you just, I mean, it 712 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: makes sense. You want to make sure you're cutting through 713 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:42,239 Speaker 1: actual vertebrate tissue there and most notably the neck. And 714 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 1: then on a officials installed and use the guillotine for 715 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: the first time. Right, So the first victim of the 716 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,759 Speaker 1: French guillotine was Nicholas Jacques Beltier who was a highwayman, 717 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,359 Speaker 1: and he was executed where the machine was erected at 718 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,960 Speaker 1: the Plasta Grev and they're so large crowd came out 719 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 1: obviously to witness the first execution by the new machine, 720 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,359 Speaker 1: but it was reported that the crowd was somewhat unimpressed 721 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,399 Speaker 1: and they found the efficiency of the killing less entertaining 722 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,399 Speaker 1: than the forms of execution they were used to, even 723 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 1: the more classic beheadings. Nevertheless, over time, the executions that 724 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,080 Speaker 1: the guillotine became a very popular spectator event during the 725 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,920 Speaker 1: Reign of Terror, and you know, in generally afterwards, when 726 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,360 Speaker 1: the guillotine was used, people would show up to watch 727 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: so we see a little success here. Like it was 728 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:34,880 Speaker 1: clearly less dramatic. Uh, you know, there was less theater 729 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,279 Speaker 1: in the act. And yet at the same time, a 730 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 1: few things are more dramatic in life than the ending 731 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,799 Speaker 1: of a life like this is the people. You can 732 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 1: understand why people would still turn out even if you 733 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:50,040 Speaker 1: had made things a little more precise. Now, putting aside 734 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 1: the question, I guess what we can talk talk about 735 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 1: in a minute over whether it's ever humane to just 736 00:40:55,000 --> 00:41:00,360 Speaker 1: execute somebody? Was it actually true that the guillotine was 737 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: a more refined, more humane version of execution than what 738 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,520 Speaker 1: came before? Was it? Was it an improvement if you 739 00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 1: were somebody who was interested in reducing the suffering of humankind. Yeah, 740 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,480 Speaker 1: I mean you could Again, you could say the concept 741 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: is inherently controversial. But still others took issue with just 742 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 1: how humane it was. So Prussian doctor Samuel Thomas summer Ing, 743 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,880 Speaker 1: who lives seventeen fifty five through eighteen thirty, he studied 744 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,720 Speaker 1: the cadavers of guillotine victims, and he argued that severed 745 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: heads were still capable feeling and since, and he wrote 746 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 1: an essay on this in seventeen nine. So he he 747 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,760 Speaker 1: was something of a poly math. In addition to naming 748 00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,239 Speaker 1: the twelve pairs of cranial nerves, he also invented a 749 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,480 Speaker 1: telegraphic system and made discoveries in paleontology, specifically with the 750 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:50,439 Speaker 1: pterodactyl fossils. They're not dinosaurs, folks, that's a different thing. 751 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 1: So this was you know, this was not just it 752 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:55,799 Speaker 1: wasn't just some crazy guy coming up in Santa The 753 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,480 Speaker 1: heads are still alive, you know, he was he was 754 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:02,600 Speaker 1: making an an expert argument that like, I'm not sure 755 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:04,560 Speaker 1: that this is great what we're doing. Maybe it's a 756 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,359 Speaker 1: little it's almost a little too precise. Yeah, The core 757 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,000 Speaker 1: takeaway of his essay on the inhumanity of the guy 758 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 1: tain was that we can't rule out that it's possible 759 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,359 Speaker 1: that a severed head could still be having experience, could 760 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,640 Speaker 1: experience being severed. Now we know, there were a lot 761 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,960 Speaker 1: of tales of this happening, right of people running to 762 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 1: check out the heads of the of the decapitated, in 763 00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,880 Speaker 1: various doctors checking in and seeing what was going on 764 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 1: with the eyes. And there was a lot of interest 765 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,440 Speaker 1: in this in determining what, you know, what happens to 766 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,680 Speaker 1: consciousness to add death like this was a perfect clinical 767 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,800 Speaker 1: exercise for for weighing in on it. Yeah, the classic 768 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,440 Speaker 1: tales about this, they get repeated the most often are 769 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:48,640 Speaker 1: like seeing someone's cheeks flush with anger when they behold someone, 770 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,239 Speaker 1: or who's someone who mocks them or something like that, 771 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,720 Speaker 1: or or who slaps them in the face, or thinking 772 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,440 Speaker 1: that that a severed head would be like looking at 773 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,439 Speaker 1: people as if it recognize is to them, something like that. Yeah, 774 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,520 Speaker 1: and obviously there's a lot of inbellishment with these stories, 775 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,440 Speaker 1: but we don't know how much to trust them. Yeah, 776 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:07,799 Speaker 1: we really don't know how much to trust them. But 777 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,600 Speaker 1: we do know today that that any kind of activity 778 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,640 Speaker 1: seen in the heads after death, most of this is 779 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:19,600 Speaker 1: going to be reflective twitching of muscles. So um, basically, 780 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,839 Speaker 1: coma and brain death are probably gonna occur within two 781 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:28,000 Speaker 1: to three seconds of decapitation due to interruption of blood 782 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,920 Speaker 1: flow to the brain. So just the massive sudden drop 783 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,680 Speaker 1: in blood pressure, Yeah, that's gonna do it. So any 784 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,080 Speaker 1: tales of like, you know, confronting the head having any 785 00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:41,640 Speaker 1: kind of like moment of human uh contact, even if 786 00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,279 Speaker 1: it's just in the eyes, Uh, it's pretty clear that 787 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:48,360 Speaker 1: that is all just embellishment of stories or just wishful 788 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,120 Speaker 1: thinking on the part of the observer. So what is 789 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,360 Speaker 1: the legacy of this machine, this this machine of bureaucratic violence. 790 00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,600 Speaker 1: And if we try to look at it from with 791 00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,480 Speaker 1: our perspective, from today, with our hindsight, and you know, 792 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:02,680 Speaker 1: with with the kind of value judgments we would make, 793 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,920 Speaker 1: was the guillotine a step forward or a step backward? 794 00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:11,200 Speaker 1: Was it as uh guillotan envisioned a more humane way 795 00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:13,799 Speaker 1: of doing business when the state was just you know, 796 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,160 Speaker 1: couldn't be convinced not to kill people. Or did it 797 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:21,160 Speaker 1: perhaps enable a worse state of affairs where more people 798 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,000 Speaker 1: could be sent to their deaths with impunity than would 799 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,319 Speaker 1: have been the case otherwise. Yeah, I think you could 800 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,480 Speaker 1: probably go either way on it. I mean, one thing 801 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,600 Speaker 1: is for certain. It it changed the way executions were 802 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,640 Speaker 1: performed in France for nearly two hundred years. It was 803 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,759 Speaker 1: actually used in France up until nineteen seventy seven, that's 804 00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:40,560 Speaker 1: when the last execution occurred via guillotine, before the outlying 805 00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,759 Speaker 1: of capital punishment in one It also took on symbolic way. 806 00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,200 Speaker 1: It's just this this symbol of the reign of terror 807 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,680 Speaker 1: and perhaps to a larger extent a symbol of systematically 808 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:54,480 Speaker 1: violent rebellion. Yeah, I read one author point out, certainly 809 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,360 Speaker 1: not in defending the guillotine or the use of the guillotine, 810 00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,760 Speaker 1: but it just pointing out a kind of strange irony 811 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:04,359 Speaker 1: that the guillotine now to us symbolizes this this horror, 812 00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,200 Speaker 1: this horror period of bureaucratic violence, which it certainly was. 813 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:10,040 Speaker 1: But we look at that and we think of that 814 00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,840 Speaker 1: period as a reign of terror. But don't think the 815 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,160 Speaker 1: same way say about the Napoleonic Wars, which killed far 816 00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:19,080 Speaker 1: more people than the guillotine ever did. Not that that 817 00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,200 Speaker 1: makes the killings of the guillotine any less horrific. That's true. Now, 818 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,839 Speaker 1: you know, one the one thing about the weirdness of 819 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,640 Speaker 1: this whole situation that stands out. I mean, aside from 820 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:31,440 Speaker 1: just the inherently weird nature of of a beheading machine 821 00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,880 Speaker 1: machine that cuts off heads, there is still something highly 822 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,920 Speaker 1: symbolic going on here. I think to the means of 823 00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: an execution, and you'll typically see an expression of of 824 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,759 Speaker 1: power involved, say it's a physical strength, or you know, 825 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:51,640 Speaker 1: vengeful spirit or increasingly a culture's greatest technological achievements. Isn't 826 00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,960 Speaker 1: it weird? To think about how these methods climbed the 827 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:59,000 Speaker 1: tree of developing technology. So starting with varying levels of 828 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:03,800 Speaker 1: tool proficiency, you know, axes and swords, weapons, weapon crafting, 829 00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:08,800 Speaker 1: then we go into gunpowder, uh, you know, firing squads, electricity, 830 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,560 Speaker 1: and the electric chair. It is weird to trace through 831 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:15,160 Speaker 1: history execution methods just sort of like tracking with whatever 832 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:20,080 Speaker 1: is the most interesting new technology we have available. Yeah, chemicals, pharmaceuticals. 833 00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,439 Speaker 1: I mean, why an electric chair. That is just such 834 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:28,200 Speaker 1: a strange idea to even come up with. H French 835 00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:32,440 Speaker 1: philosopher Michelle Fuco he weighed in on this, and he 836 00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:36,240 Speaker 1: pointed out that penal technology is of course an expression 837 00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,120 Speaker 1: of power, but we also have to dwell on the 838 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:43,280 Speaker 1: fact that it does this through everyday technology, ubiquitous technology. 839 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,319 Speaker 1: So if it's something like electricity or even you know 840 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:50,200 Speaker 1: or even you know, pharmaceuticals, chemicals, Uh, it's it's taking 841 00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:56,160 Speaker 1: aspects of everyday life and turning them into the the system, 842 00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,920 Speaker 1: the tool of of justice. So like our everyday use 843 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:03,840 Speaker 1: of energy and the consumer economy, a constant reminder of 844 00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,600 Speaker 1: the methods of death that the state can inflict upon 845 00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,600 Speaker 1: people if they if they don't stay in line exactly. Now, 846 00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,440 Speaker 1: a one small area of the legacy of the guillotine 847 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,640 Speaker 1: comes down to its use in medical terminology. So there 848 00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,920 Speaker 1: are two primary means of amputation, um in terms of 849 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,400 Speaker 1: like amputating a limb or what have you. You have 850 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,680 Speaker 1: flap amputations in which flaps of flesh are left so 851 00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:29,239 Speaker 1: that you can fold them and close the stump of 852 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,319 Speaker 1: the wound. And then there are guillotine amputations, which which 853 00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:34,520 Speaker 1: are more of a straight down affair with no immediate 854 00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:39,600 Speaker 1: concerns for flap tissue. So in guillotine amputation, it's more 855 00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,480 Speaker 1: about cutting out infected tissue and making sure drainage of 856 00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:46,719 Speaker 1: proper drainage occurs, and then secondary surgery is performed to 857 00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,760 Speaker 1: create the flap tissue to close everything off into a stump. 858 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:53,200 Speaker 1: But obviously that's like a secondary appellation, like you wouldn't 859 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,759 Speaker 1: you wouldn't have called that guillotine cutting in the surgical 860 00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,200 Speaker 1: since before the guillotine, right, But it is certainly an 861 00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:03,279 Speaker 1: example where if you're you, you encounter this terminology now 862 00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:07,200 Speaker 1: and in the medical science, and uh, and it stems 863 00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:09,879 Speaker 1: from the use of this execution device. That being said, 864 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:13,200 Speaker 1: there's a lot of medical terminology that stems from various 865 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,759 Speaker 1: weapons and so forth. Of course, so I want to 866 00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,240 Speaker 1: come back to this question that we've been teasing throughout 867 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:24,040 Speaker 1: where you can't help but wonder if Joseph Eskaton pushed 868 00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,680 Speaker 1: us in exactly the wrong direction, if he was actually 869 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:32,000 Speaker 1: against the death penalty and trying to institute more humane 870 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:36,560 Speaker 1: treatment of criminals. You know, it's hard not to notice 871 00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:40,759 Speaker 1: that by sanitizing a horrible act, it often seems like 872 00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,560 Speaker 1: you make the act easier to carry out. And I 873 00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,320 Speaker 1: mean just think about how this applies to modern methods 874 00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:51,320 Speaker 1: of state sanctioned killing, everything from lethal injection to drone strikes. 875 00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:58,279 Speaker 1: Does the sanitizing and distancing and depersonalization opportunity provided by 876 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:03,080 Speaker 1: lethal technology in encourage us to make ourselves able to 877 00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:08,000 Speaker 1: kill more while feeling less about it? Yeah? I mean, ultimately, 878 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:12,320 Speaker 1: is the the botched at execution that we've discussed already, 879 00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,880 Speaker 1: Are those not maybe a more honest depiction of what's 880 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:21,160 Speaker 1: going on? This this this fallible, um barbaric human effort, 881 00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:25,560 Speaker 1: not this uh precision of the holy blameless machine. Well, 882 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:27,680 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously we're not going to sit here and 883 00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:31,640 Speaker 1: advocate brutal botched executions with jack ketch hacking at us 884 00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:35,000 Speaker 1: with a sword or an axe. But yeah, at least 885 00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,920 Speaker 1: with that, I'm not saying that's preferable, but I do 886 00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,319 Speaker 1: see what you're saying that it's at least there, you're 887 00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:43,839 Speaker 1: acknowledging that something brutal and weird is going on, and 888 00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,120 Speaker 1: you can't just you know, clean it up in your 889 00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:49,160 Speaker 1: mind and ignore it because you're hearing the screams and 890 00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,319 Speaker 1: it's splattering on you, and it's so brutal that it's 891 00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,239 Speaker 1: almost funny. You know. It's interesting. You know, in this 892 00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,600 Speaker 1: show we talk about innovation and inventions and how how 893 00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:02,200 Speaker 1: they change the world, and and so often you see 894 00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,640 Speaker 1: that that people have to look back and try to 895 00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:08,319 Speaker 1: figure out what changed and how it changed us. Uh, 896 00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,560 Speaker 1: And here we are, hundreds of years later, looking back 897 00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,520 Speaker 1: and saying, well, what did the guillotine mean? What did 898 00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:20,319 Speaker 1: it do? And what are the ultimate ramifications of this advancement. Well, 899 00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,680 Speaker 1: I posit that maybe one takeaway from it is that 900 00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:26,680 Speaker 1: the truth is it has showed us that there is 901 00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:30,640 Speaker 1: no good or clean or sanitary way to kill a person, 902 00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:34,080 Speaker 1: and any belief that there is, in fact turns out 903 00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:38,359 Speaker 1: to be a kind of brutalizing and dehumanizing illusion. All right, 904 00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,040 Speaker 1: So that's it for this week's episode of Invention. If 905 00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:42,560 Speaker 1: you want to learn more about the show and check 906 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:46,120 Speaker 1: out other episodes, head on over to our website invention 907 00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:50,480 Speaker 1: pod dot com. Big thanks to Scott Benjamin for research 908 00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:54,360 Speaker 1: assistance with this episode, thanks to our audio producer Tari Harrison. 909 00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:56,319 Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us 910 00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,200 Speaker 1: directly with feedback on this episode or any other, to 911 00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:01,799 Speaker 1: suggest the top for the future, or just to say hi, 912 00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:03,640 Speaker 1: let us know how you found out about the show 913 00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,440 Speaker 1: where you listen from all that kind of stuff, you 914 00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:28,000 Speaker 1: can email us at contact at invention pod dot com.