WEBVTT - CZM Rewind: Part Two: How Cigarettes Invented Everything

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<v Speaker 1>Also media.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey everybody, Robert here, just introducing we've got another rerun.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the first time we've done two weeks in

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<v Speaker 2>a row. Normally we just do one week at the

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<v Speaker 2>end of the year. But all of the other shows

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<v Speaker 2>on our network and most of the other shows that

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<v Speaker 2>I know in podcasting take off two weeks. And Sophie

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<v Speaker 2>was like, hey, Robert, why don't you actually take off

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<v Speaker 2>two weeks instead of cramming during your vacation to write

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<v Speaker 2>another podcast so that we don't fall behind. And I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, you know what, Sophie, that's a pretty good idea.

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<v Speaker 2>So anyway, that's what we're doing. Enjoy this episode on

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<v Speaker 2>how cigarettes invented everything. Should really get that checked out.

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<v Speaker 2>Cut me blowing my nose, but keep the yell, keep

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<v Speaker 2>the It sounded like a wounded elephant. I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>a wounded elephant. The pollen count in Oregon right now

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<v Speaker 2>is unbelievable. I just went outside during the break between

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<v Speaker 2>episode recordings and emptied a magazine from an AR fifteen

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<v Speaker 2>into a tree, but it does not appear to have

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<v Speaker 2>solved the problem.

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<v Speaker 3>So, yeah, you gotta gotta get heavier than that, man,

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<v Speaker 3>You gotta Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I should have used the three eight. You know, that's

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<v Speaker 2>why they went.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's that's why the army is up created.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah you want to fuck up a tree? Yeah you

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<v Speaker 2>really want you really want to move closer to that

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<v Speaker 2>thirty caliber range.

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<v Speaker 3>Yep, so spoil to you by six point eight tree killer.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah that's three thirty eight Lappawa baby.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that' fuck up.

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<v Speaker 2>When I was a young man, times like this, right

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<v Speaker 2>around near the end of the year, my friends and

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<v Speaker 2>I would go out into the woods and we would

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<v Speaker 2>shoot down a tree in order to have a bonfire

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<v Speaker 2>around it. And that doesn't really relate to the subject

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<v Speaker 2>of the episode, but we often smoked cigarettes while doing it.

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<v Speaker 3>Interesting, and it's kind of like shooting down a tree,

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<v Speaker 3>isn't it, Because if you're active consumer base, it's a

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<v Speaker 3>bit like shooting shooting down a tree.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. You just have to hope that they can grow

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<v Speaker 2>up faster than you can shoot them shoot them, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean. And it's also what they say about the

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<v Speaker 2>human race, because one thing you got to give it

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<v Speaker 2>to us is we bred slightly faster than cigarettes were

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<v Speaker 2>able to kill us.

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<v Speaker 3>Once again, a win for humanity.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, a titanic dub So cigarettes did not get to

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<v Speaker 2>have their real moment in the sun until a few

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<v Speaker 2>years after the dissolution of American tobacco, which again the

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<v Speaker 2>Supreme Court knocks it out in nineteen eleven. Probably somewhere

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<v Speaker 2>under ten percent of a merit of smokers and a

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<v Speaker 2>much smaller portion of the US population actually smoked cigarettes.

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<v Speaker 2>So a pretty small fraction of the US adult population

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<v Speaker 2>is smoking still, even even as successful as our old

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<v Speaker 2>buddy Duke wasn't getting people to smoke. But the thing

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<v Speaker 2>that's going to actually start to change this and really

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<v Speaker 2>turn around cigarettes fortunes is the First World War. Now, James,

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<v Speaker 2>you've been a trench.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I've been in a couple of trenches, so yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>that's no professional reasons.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there trenches are not the cleanest places in the world,

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<v Speaker 2>especially if it's raining and their muddy. You wouldn't want

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<v Speaker 2>to have a pipe in a trench necessarily, Like you

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<v Speaker 2>could smoke a pipe in a trench, but stuff's going

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<v Speaker 2>to get in it. That's kind of gross, right, that's

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<v Speaker 2>not ideal. Yeah, And when you know, if you're doing

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<v Speaker 2>trench stuff, you probably don't have time to sit down

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<v Speaker 2>and really smoke a cigar. You know, they take a while.

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<v Speaker 2>Cigarettes are the depends on what rank you're at, doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>it Once you write right, if you're sitting yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, you get up to the you know, the

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<v Speaker 3>field grade officers, you find a cigarette.

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<v Speaker 2>They have plenty of time for cigars, and they have

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<v Speaker 2>clean enough areas for cigarette or for pipes. But if

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<v Speaker 2>you're a working man in the trenches, the best way

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<v Speaker 2>you have to smoke in between getting murdered by German

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<v Speaker 2>machine guns is a cigarette. And that's really what causes

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<v Speaker 2>a shitload of people to start adopting cigarettes. That's what

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<v Speaker 2>actually makes it a mainstream thing. Is World War One.

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<v Speaker 3>Now it goes well with death, It.

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<v Speaker 2>Does go well with death, James. Cigarette adoption had crept

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<v Speaker 2>up only gradually prior to this, and it had been

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<v Speaker 2>met by this a really active anti smoking campaign the

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<v Speaker 2>whole time. It's kind of always noting that the first

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<v Speaker 2>twenty years of like the twentieth century, basically from like

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<v Speaker 2>the late eighteen nineties to like nineteen seventeen nineteen eighteen,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a very active anti smoking campaign in the United States,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's powered by a lot of the same voices

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<v Speaker 2>who are also fighting for prohibition. There were even bands

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<v Speaker 2>on the public consumption of tobacco in some states. In

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen ten, a doctor named Charles Peace founded the Non

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<v Speaker 2>Smoker's Protective League, advocating for a public smoking band in

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<v Speaker 2>America's largest city. In nineteen thirteen, The New York Times

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<v Speaker 2>published an op ed opposing the establishment of smoking cars

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<v Speaker 2>in the subway. Now, these people we now know are right,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like cigarettes bad, public smoking bad. But they're not. Again,

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<v Speaker 2>there's not strong evidence that proves cigarettes cause cancer at

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<v Speaker 2>this point. There's not really good scientific studies at this point.

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<v Speaker 2>These people are just busybodies, right, Yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, they can be right for the wrong reasons. Well,

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<v Speaker 3>what are their arguments that they well don't like it?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let me let me tell you. Chief among the

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<v Speaker 2>voices of small of non smokers is our old friend

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<v Speaker 2>of the pod, John Harvey Kellogg, America's good.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Kellogg's complaint was quote, smoking has become so nearly universal

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<v Speaker 2>among men that non smokers are practically ignored and their

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<v Speaker 2>rights trampled upon. Now that means that, like, by being

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<v Speaker 2>around cigarette smoke, you're having your rights trampled upon. And yes,

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<v Speaker 2>we now know secondhand smoke is seriously bad for you.

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<v Speaker 2>At the time we did it. And also, let's be

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<v Speaker 2>honest here nineteen seventeen, walking around a city that's still

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<v Speaker 2>filled with horseshit and now leaded gasoline fumes from all

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<v Speaker 2>of the cars rolling around and industrial smoke from all

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<v Speaker 2>of the different fucking coal factories and stuff. Cigarettes are

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<v Speaker 2>not your number one health risk.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the end of the thing, number one trampling on

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<v Speaker 3>your right side of seventeen.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's just not the biggest problem. Look, John Harvey Kellogg,

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<v Speaker 2>Well he don't give him credit. Yeah, do not give

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<v Speaker 2>him credit for being on the right side of history

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<v Speaker 2>with this one. So non smokers also, it was not

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<v Speaker 2>again because there's not greats there are some of these

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<v Speaker 2>people do so ours are ahead of their time and

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<v Speaker 2>are saying like, hey, this stuff is has to be

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<v Speaker 2>bad for you, and we're going to figure out like

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<v Speaker 2>the way in which it's killing people later. A lot

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<v Speaker 2>of them are just angry because they think it's gross,

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<v Speaker 2>And a huge chunk of them are angry because cigarettes

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<v Speaker 2>are popular with women, right because women start smoking. That's

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<v Speaker 2>a big part of the anti smoking campaign. In nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>oh four, New York State passes a law that makes

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<v Speaker 2>it a crime for women to quote, endanger the morals

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<v Speaker 2>of children by smoking in their presence. A woman named

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<v Speaker 2>Jinny Lasher was charged and sentenced to jail for violating it.

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<v Speaker 2>In nineteen oh eight, New York City aldermen passed an

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<v Speaker 2>ordinance restricting public smoking by women from the Washington Post quote.

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<v Speaker 2>The Sullivan Ordinance made it illegal for restaurant and bar

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<v Speaker 2>owners to permit women to smoke in their establishments. The

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<v Speaker 2>stated rationale from Bowery moralist and political chieftain Tim Sullivan

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<v Speaker 2>was that proper ladies were offended by women smoking, and

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<v Speaker 2>it certainly wasn't any kind of attempt by a man

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<v Speaker 2>to control women's behavior. Despite the ordinance's short duration it

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<v Speaker 2>lasted only two weeks, the sentiment underlying it was held

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<v Speaker 2>by others as well. Women smoking was viewed by many

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<v Speaker 2>as taboo, associated with what Amanda Amos and Margaretha Haglund

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<v Speaker 2>have termed lush and libbid moral behavior. So it is

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<v Speaker 2>a good band name, and it's interesting. One of the

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<v Speaker 2>things that cigarettes do is they make it. They are

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<v Speaker 2>a big part of why it starts to become okay

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<v Speaker 2>for men and women to socialize together who are unmarried.

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<v Speaker 2>Right in a lot of ways. So one of the

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<v Speaker 2>things that is common prior to cigarettes becoming mainstream, after

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<v Speaker 2>you have like a big dinner, if you have a

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<v Speaker 2>fancy pody, then after dinner, the men will go to

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<v Speaker 2>smoke cigars and the women will, you know, go clean

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<v Speaker 2>up or something. And increasingly in the early twenties, what starts,

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<v Speaker 2>or in the early nineteenth nineteen hundreds, what starts to

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<v Speaker 2>happen is after dinner, everybody has a cigarette. And women

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<v Speaker 2>didn't smoke cigars, but cigarettes are new, and so it's

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<v Speaker 2>not really that weird to a lot of modern people

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<v Speaker 2>that women would smoke them. And also there's not women's cigarettes,

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<v Speaker 2>so everyone's smoking the same cigarettes, and increasingly they start

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<v Speaker 2>doing it in the same places together, unmarried men and

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<v Speaker 2>women just hanging out and having a smoke and talking.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a big part of this is kind of

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<v Speaker 2>in the background of the of the suffrage movement, but

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<v Speaker 2>cigarettes do play a significant role in the increasing acceptance

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<v Speaker 2>of social equality for women because men and women spend

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<v Speaker 2>time together to smoke. Yeah, it makes not a non factor.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, It's definitely a time period when there's generally

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<v Speaker 3>this change in gender roles, right with women working in

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<v Speaker 3>a first World War and like, well.

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<v Speaker 2>That's yeah, that's another part of it, right, is like

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<v Speaker 2>women are taking on men's jobs, why wouldn't they be

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<v Speaker 2>able to smoke? And you know, it's a it's a

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<v Speaker 2>whole thing. So smokers also started to organize to establish

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<v Speaker 2>more public smoking places. Tobacco dealers would often back and

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<v Speaker 2>fund local efforts to lobby for smoking cars on trains

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<v Speaker 2>or to allow the smoking of cigarettes on the rear

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<v Speaker 2>platform of street cars. Within the military, there were strenuous

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<v Speaker 2>debates as to whether or not tobaccos should be legal

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<v Speaker 2>for soldiers. In nineteen oh seven, the surgeon General of

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<v Speaker 2>the Navy had recommended that sailors under twenty one be

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<v Speaker 2>banned from smoking cigarettes. This was outrageous to the actual

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<v Speaker 2>men of the Navy, and one enlisted man wrote this

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<v Speaker 2>in response, If this cigarette recommendation has made the rule,

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<v Speaker 2>and such a thing as ordered, it's gonna put all

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<v Speaker 2>us young fellows who like them on the beam. It's

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<v Speaker 2>all right to talk about your cigars and your pipes,

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<v Speaker 2>but cigarettes are cigarettes, and when you once get to

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<v Speaker 2>liking the little sticks, there's nothing that can take their place.

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<v Speaker 2>Then don't forget that life on the ocean with none

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<v Speaker 2>of your women, folks or girlfriends around to break the monotony.

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<v Speaker 2>Is a lot different from life ashore. And I tell

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<v Speaker 2>you those dream sticks help you pass away Miniga, dreary

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<v Speaker 2>and homestick hour. Just a bunch of navy boys, no

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<v Speaker 2>women around, sucking down dream sticks.

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<v Speaker 3>Dreamsticks.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Direct quote from Joe Biden's speech about pardoning people with marijuana.

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<v Speaker 2>For dream sticks. In an unrelated note, I saw a

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<v Speaker 2>picture of Joe Biden with a quantum computer the other

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<v Speaker 2>day and it just struck me as the most wrong thing.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like looking at Winston Churchill with a game boy. Know,

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<v Speaker 2>those aren't supposed to be in the same photograph. And

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<v Speaker 2>Joe Biden should never have lived to see a quantum computer.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like seeing a diplodocus for Tamagotchi hang it out

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<v Speaker 3>and yeah, yeah, I expect.

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<v Speaker 2>No, that's not okay, that's not okay. So opposition to

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<v Speaker 2>cigarettes in the military disappeared overnight once the United States

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<v Speaker 2>got into World War One. Much of this had to

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<v Speaker 2>do with black Jack Pershing, the leader of the American

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<v Speaker 2>Expeditionary Force, who, when asked what Americans could do to

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<v Speaker 2>support their soldiers going overseas gave this reply. You asked

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<v Speaker 2>me what we need to win this war. I answered,

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<v Speaker 2>tobacco as much as bullets.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh great, it's so true.

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<v Speaker 2>It is.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, we've spoken about this before, but the universal

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<v Speaker 3>truth of conflict journalism that if you need something and

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<v Speaker 3>you're not sure that someone's going to give it to you,

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<v Speaker 3>you can probably get it by giving someone enough cigarettes.

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<v Speaker 2>I keep packs on me every time I'm anywhere near

0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:56.800
<v Speaker 2>because like it's not always just getting something. Some of

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<v Speaker 2>it is like you meet people and their stand on

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<v Speaker 2>because like I don't know, they're fucking soldiers in a

0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:05.560
<v Speaker 2>war zone whose daily life involves dealing with horrible trauma,

0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:08.040
<v Speaker 2>and they don't know you. And then you like bust

0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:10.200
<v Speaker 2>out some Marboroughs and you sit and smoke for like

0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:13.080
<v Speaker 2>twenty minutes together, and then they just start talking. You know,

0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:16.199
<v Speaker 2>like that's a thing. They're useful, yeah.

0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:19.640
<v Speaker 3>Work, Yeah, they're a great tool for journalism.

0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:23.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, they're also in terms of how they're being used

0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:27.319
<v Speaker 2>that's not unhealthy by the military, because cigarettes spoilers make

0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:30.679
<v Speaker 2>you worse at everything that is important for soldiers, almost everything.

0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:34.040
<v Speaker 2>Right today, US soldiers who smoke score an average of

0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:37.560
<v Speaker 2>thirty five points lower on PT tests. Cigarette smoking harms

0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.880
<v Speaker 2>your night vision, like it's bad for your performance. Yes,

0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:43.560
<v Speaker 2>they are bad for your performance in combat. In addition

0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:47.240
<v Speaker 2>to like people get shot smoking cigarettes cherries.

0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:48.400
<v Speaker 3>Right, that happens for sure.

0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:51.960
<v Speaker 2>But one thing they do is they are a stress reliever.

0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:54.280
<v Speaker 2>And we can debate in the long term it's not

0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:57.320
<v Speaker 2>a great coping strategy, but if your daily job is

0:12:57.320 --> 0:12:59.920
<v Speaker 2>to get shot at repeatedly, you don't care about the

0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.600
<v Speaker 2>long term. You just went like a moment where things

0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:03.480
<v Speaker 2>feel okay.

0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:05.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there is not a long term for a lot

0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:06.720
<v Speaker 3>of people in World War One.

0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.640
<v Speaker 2>No, no, especially not. And the other thing that they

0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:13.280
<v Speaker 2>do is, as we just talked about, people bond while smoking.

0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:15.680
<v Speaker 2>It's a part of why men and women. It's a

0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:17.960
<v Speaker 2>way in which men and women start to bond socially

0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:19.680
<v Speaker 2>in a way they had not in a long time

0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:23.920
<v Speaker 2>in Western society. And soldiers in the trenches bond sharing smokes. Yeah,

0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:25.760
<v Speaker 2>it is a thing that you do with each other

0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:28.640
<v Speaker 2>and you can't Number one, this is a thing I

0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:31.400
<v Speaker 2>don't think the tobacco industry could have anticipated because it's

0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:34.679
<v Speaker 2>just a very human thing. And it's also you can't

0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:39.560
<v Speaker 2>fight this like there's nothing to do about it. It's

0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:42.319
<v Speaker 2>just a thing that people have adopted for themselves in

0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:47.199
<v Speaker 2>a difficult time. And so this is a this is

0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:51.720
<v Speaker 2>a problem for the anti smoking people. Obviously smoking again

0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:56.520
<v Speaker 2>very bad for everything else that makes you be a soldier,

0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.080
<v Speaker 2>But soldiers are not thinking about that in the times

0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:02.840
<v Speaker 2>when they're smoking them, and in a lot of military

0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:06.559
<v Speaker 2>planners cases like they're also it's hard to argue even

0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:08.920
<v Speaker 2>though you've got people who are in the medical profession

0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:11.520
<v Speaker 2>for the military being like these probably aren't good for people.

0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:13.760
<v Speaker 2>It's hard to argue that like a guy who you're

0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.280
<v Speaker 2>asking to run at a machine gun nest doesn't deserve

0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:20.920
<v Speaker 2>to have like a cigarette. Yeah. Yes, And you know,

0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:23.360
<v Speaker 2>if you know America, you know that love for our

0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:26.960
<v Speaker 2>military is basically the not so secret control level lever

0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:30.480
<v Speaker 2>for the American mind. So cigarettes had been controversial prior

0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:32.680
<v Speaker 2>to World War One, but once we start sending men

0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:36.160
<v Speaker 2>in the field and pershings like we need cigarettes. Organizations

0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:39.480
<v Speaker 2>that had previously lobbied nationwide for smoking bands like the

0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:42.400
<v Speaker 2>YMCA prior to World War One. The YMCA is a

0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.680
<v Speaker 2>massive part of trying to ban public smoking as soon

0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:48.440
<v Speaker 2>as the war starts they start shipping palettes of cigarettes

0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:50.960
<v Speaker 2>to the battlefields.

0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:55.960
<v Speaker 3>It's great entry for so long. You can just put

0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.800
<v Speaker 3>the support of the troops stank on anything and people

0:14:58.800 --> 0:14:59.600
<v Speaker 3>will love it.

0:14:59.640 --> 0:14:59.840
<v Speaker 1>Here.

0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:03.440
<v Speaker 2>It's it's interesting. In the cigarette century, Alan Brandt writes,

0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:07.520
<v Speaker 2>volunteers organized smoke funds to collect donations to assure that

0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:10.680
<v Speaker 2>the troops had adequate supplies of cigarettes. The Sun Fund

0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:13.560
<v Speaker 2>A massed one hundred and thirty seven million cigarettes in

0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.480
<v Speaker 2>a two month period. Tobacco may not be a necessity

0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:18.840
<v Speaker 2>of life in the ordinary sense of the term, explained

0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:21.800
<v Speaker 2>The New York Times, but it certainly lightens the inevitable

0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:24.760
<v Speaker 2>hardships of war as nothing else can do. The National

0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:28.080
<v Speaker 2>Cigarette Service Committee collected the names of soldiers without families

0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:31.520
<v Speaker 2>to make sure they received cigarettes. Volunteers prepared packages for

0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:33.960
<v Speaker 2>shipment to the troops under the auspices of groups such

0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:45.600
<v Speaker 2>as the Army Girls Transport Tobacco Fund. That's sweet, yeah.

0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:46.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, amazing. I'm sure these people were also like dying

0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:48.960
<v Speaker 3>of trench foot and would have really appreciated like a

0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:49.760
<v Speaker 3>new pair of socks.

0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:53.080
<v Speaker 2>Yes, socks probably also would have gone over well yeah coat,

0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I assume the military was already attempting to

0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:59.760
<v Speaker 2>provide those things, Like, it is new that you would

0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:01.520
<v Speaker 2>provide cigarettes as the military.

0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:02.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:06.200
<v Speaker 2>So, in the early days of the war, the US

0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:08.360
<v Speaker 2>war effort, I should say, the fact that most aid

0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:12.280
<v Speaker 2>organizations in Europe provided cigarettes to soldiers for a fee,

0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:15.960
<v Speaker 2>often substantial, regularly made the news back home. Soldiers are like,

0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:18.080
<v Speaker 2>we're paying as much for a cigarette at the front

0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:20.480
<v Speaker 2>as we have to pay back at home. Like, that's

0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:21.320
<v Speaker 2>kind of fucked up.

0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:21.920
<v Speaker 3>Now.

0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:24.360
<v Speaker 2>Donated cigarettes were only able to solve a small portion

0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:26.720
<v Speaker 2>of this problem. One hundred and thirty nine million cigarettes

0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:30.280
<v Speaker 2>is not a lot. If you know anything about cigarettes,

0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:34.600
<v Speaker 2>that's not very many. Sounds like a lot. It is not.

0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:39.240
<v Speaker 2>A fucking army in the field will smoke through one

0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:41.960
<v Speaker 2>hundred and thirty nine million cigarettes quicker than they'll go

0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:42.920
<v Speaker 2>through that many bullets.

0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:44.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that is true.

0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:49.160
<v Speaker 2>Donated cigarettes only, yeh, solved a small number of the problems.

0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:51.160
<v Speaker 2>So the War Department had to make the decision to

0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:54.920
<v Speaker 2>issue tobacco rations to soldiers starting in May of nineteen eighteen.

0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:57.640
<v Speaker 2>The New York Times wrote of the decision, quote, a

0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:00.320
<v Speaker 2>wave of joy swept through the American Army.

0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:03.680
<v Speaker 3>Great and them have it.

0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.879
<v Speaker 2>War fever means a temporary end to the anti smoking movement.

0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:11.040
<v Speaker 2>Many men who had hated cigarettes prior to the war

0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:14.760
<v Speaker 2>had become addicts while overseas, right they you know, they're

0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.400
<v Speaker 2>big hygiene guys before and then they get shot at

0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:19.359
<v Speaker 2>and they have a smoke in the fucking trench with

0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:21.720
<v Speaker 2>their buddy, and then you know, for the rest of

0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:25.080
<v Speaker 2>their lives they think kindly of cigarettes. And also the

0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.200
<v Speaker 2>fact that the cigarette is now associated with the hard

0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:29.840
<v Speaker 2>bitten trench fighter means that you can't attack the moral

0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:33.119
<v Speaker 2>character of smokers the anti smoking movement. They're only smoked

0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.920
<v Speaker 2>by criminals and not white people, right, and now they're

0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:40.280
<v Speaker 2>like they're part of the icon of the heroic soldier. Right.

0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:44.439
<v Speaker 2>So in nineteen hundred, again, barely five percent of the

0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:46.920
<v Speaker 2>country smoked, or like nineteen oh four something like that.

0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:51.040
<v Speaker 2>By nineteen forty and again sorry, in like the start

0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:53.639
<v Speaker 2>of the nineteen hundreds, about five percent of the country

0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:58.800
<v Speaker 2>who smokes tobacco smokes. Right. By nineteen forty, forty percent

0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:02.040
<v Speaker 2>of the United States adult population smokes on a daily

0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:06.480
<v Speaker 2>BASEI oh, yeah, it is a huge increase.

0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:08.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that is crazy.

0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:13.520
<v Speaker 2>Average per consumer consumption escalated to in nineteen hundred, Americans

0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:17.240
<v Speaker 2>consumed about fifty four cigarettes per person per year. Right,

0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:20.680
<v Speaker 2>that's the average for the whole population. In nineteen sixty three,

0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:26.159
<v Speaker 2>Americans consume forty three hundred cigarettes per Jesus Christ. Was

0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:29.120
<v Speaker 2>not expecting that. That is so many cigarettes.

0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:33.800
<v Speaker 3>Forty three hundred per Jesus Christ.

0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:35.880
<v Speaker 2>That's quite a few cigarettes.

0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:39.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, you're really opting the intake they're going to get. True.

0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.600
<v Speaker 3>Those Pokemon car collections now, oh.

0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:44.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, no, a lot of kids are getting a

0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:48.439
<v Speaker 2>lot of baseball cards. Yep. You know, those numbers are

0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:50.919
<v Speaker 2>drive driven up by all of this. The eleven year

0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:54.920
<v Speaker 2>old smoking twelve thousand cigarettes.

0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:58.920
<v Speaker 3>Smoking four cigarettes at once, just burning through an entire

0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:02.800
<v Speaker 3>carton in a day. Yeah.

0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:05.159
<v Speaker 2>So this new wave of smokers brought with it changes

0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:09.160
<v Speaker 2>in American smoking habits, largely driven by R. J. Reynolds,

0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:13.359
<v Speaker 2>president of the Reynolds Tobacco Company. Richard Joshua Reynolds had

0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:17.040
<v Speaker 2>been born on July twentieth, eighteen fifty, in Patrick County, Virginia.

0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:19.480
<v Speaker 2>His father was a tobacco farmer, and as a young man,

0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:23.119
<v Speaker 2>Reynolds worked for his dad's plantation, which absolutely included a

0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:26.840
<v Speaker 2>fuckload of enslaved people. R J was just fifteen when

0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:29.479
<v Speaker 2>the Civil War ended, bringing with it the first tiny

0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:32.320
<v Speaker 2>surge and cigarette usage. He quickly fell in love with

0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:34.879
<v Speaker 2>the things, and he turned his father's company into an

0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:37.600
<v Speaker 2>industry leading producer. And R. J. Reynolds is different from

0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:41.480
<v Speaker 2>Duke in that Duke, when he smokes, smokes cigars right.

0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:44.120
<v Speaker 2>He wants to sell cigarettes. He thinks they're a good business.

0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:46.800
<v Speaker 2>He doesn't understand them, right. He understands how to get

0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:49.280
<v Speaker 2>people to want to buy something. He's a good marketer.

0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:52.359
<v Speaker 2>He doesn't really get what people like in a cigarette.

0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:55.800
<v Speaker 2>There is nothing that R. J. Reynolds loves more than cigarettes.

0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:59.800
<v Speaker 2>This man. You have never loved a human being in

0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:02.480
<v Speaker 2>your life the way this man loves the concept of

0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:06.959
<v Speaker 2>a cigarette. He is such a cigarette lover that he

0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:10.639
<v Speaker 2>attempts to avoid getting into Duke's tobacco trust. Right. He

0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:12.320
<v Speaker 2>has his own way. He wants to do things. He

0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:14.120
<v Speaker 2>doesn't want to get involved in this trust. He wants

0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:17.960
<v Speaker 2>to sell his cigarettes the way he wants to. He

0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:20.760
<v Speaker 2>actually gets forced by Duke into the trust because Duke

0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:24.120
<v Speaker 2>uses shady methods to buy two thirds of reynolds tobacco

0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:28.280
<v Speaker 2>stock to force the company into American tobacco, and despite this, R. J.

0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:31.560
<v Speaker 2>Reynolds refuses to work with Duke, and he even secretly

0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.280
<v Speaker 2>helps the US government build an anti trust case against

0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:38.440
<v Speaker 2>American Tobacco. When the Supreme Court broke the trust, Reynolds

0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.560
<v Speaker 2>had one goal to fuck over Buck Duke and his company.

0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:45.359
<v Speaker 2>In nineteen thirteen, he created a new cigarette which featured

0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:47.919
<v Speaker 2>a mix of American and Turkish tobacco to create a

0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:51.439
<v Speaker 2>blended cigarette. He called this new cigarette the Camel.

0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:56.560
<v Speaker 3>Oh, there is camel cigarettes. Why did he choose camel

0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:02.880
<v Speaker 3>because it's Turkish tobacco. I see, you know, Turkey, camels,

0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:07.480
<v Speaker 3>two things that are famous, constantly associated with each other.

0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:10.480
<v Speaker 3>Just imagine how much better he just called it the

0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:15.199
<v Speaker 3>Turkey the Turkey, right, yeah, yes, His angry Turkish nationalists

0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:18.560
<v Speaker 3>love love the fact that those two things are sort of.

0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:21.840
<v Speaker 2>Say he should have called it the Greek and then

0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:27.600
<v Speaker 2>had just a drawing of the Anatolian Peninsula on it.

0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:30.280
<v Speaker 2>They'd be banned there to this day.

0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:34.720
<v Speaker 3>There would have been more wars in twentieth century Europe.

0:21:35.440 --> 0:21:38.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to quote now from the cigarette century. To

0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:41.359
<v Speaker 2>help distinguish it from its competition, Reynolds offered no promotions.

0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:44.199
<v Speaker 2>Smokers realized that the value was in the cigarettes, and

0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:48.080
<v Speaker 2>do not expect promotions or coupons, he explained. Against Duke's

0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:52.040
<v Speaker 2>earlier advertising devoted to these now traditional promotional devices, Reynolds

0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:55.919
<v Speaker 2>went modern. Reynolds committed unprecedented advertising money to promote this

0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:59.200
<v Speaker 2>single product, creating a national campaign to make the camel

0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:03.159
<v Speaker 2>cigarette a true national brand. In nineteen fourteen, newspapers throughout

0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:06.400
<v Speaker 2>the country ran ads several days in succession that announced simply,

0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:09.480
<v Speaker 2>the camels are coming. They were followed by a second

0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:12.199
<v Speaker 2>wave of ads proclaiming tomorrow there will be more in

0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:15.840
<v Speaker 2>this town than all of Asia and Africa combined. Creating

0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:19.160
<v Speaker 2>such expectations and their fulfillment would become a central technique

0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:22.359
<v Speaker 2>of modern consumer advertising. The third ad portraying the camel

0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:27.200
<v Speaker 2>cigarette package read, camel cigarettes are here this advertising campaign

0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:30.680
<v Speaker 2>and here The term campaign appropriately reflects the strategic technique

0:22:30.840 --> 0:22:35.320
<v Speaker 2>met with unprecedented success. We look at that yeah, yeah,

0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:36.080
<v Speaker 2>smart man.

0:22:36.640 --> 0:22:40.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and it is like iconic brand, okay, cigarettes, Like

0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:43.040
<v Speaker 3>I know, there are many brands that seem to like

0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:45.960
<v Speaker 3>be as iconic as cigarette brands, and its global and.

0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:48.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and this is the start of that part of it, right,

0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:51.920
<v Speaker 2>because cigarettes have started to go viral in this but

0:22:51.960 --> 0:22:55.560
<v Speaker 2>not necessarily on a brand basis. Right, you do have

0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:57.600
<v Speaker 2>kind of some of these early brands, but they all,

0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:00.439
<v Speaker 2>like every tobacco company has a bunch of different and

0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:03.240
<v Speaker 2>they sell different ones in different regions. Reynolds is the

0:23:03.240 --> 0:23:04.840
<v Speaker 2>first guy to be like, no, not only do I

0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:07.480
<v Speaker 2>want my company to be the biggest, I want this

0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:11.960
<v Speaker 2>one specific kind of cigarette to be everywhere. So when

0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:14.399
<v Speaker 2>World War One ended, Campbell accounted for more than thirty

0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:17.440
<v Speaker 2>percent of the US cigarette market. Campbell's came into vogue

0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:19.960
<v Speaker 2>just as a new generation of female smokers came onto

0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:22.960
<v Speaker 2>the scene. These women had traditionally taken male job had

0:23:22.960 --> 0:23:25.200
<v Speaker 2>taken traditionally male jobs for men who'd left to fight,

0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:27.800
<v Speaker 2>and after helping to save the US economy, they didn't

0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:30.040
<v Speaker 2>take well to the argument that them enjoying a smoke

0:23:30.119 --> 0:23:33.160
<v Speaker 2>with some sort of sin against femininity from the Washington Post.

0:23:34.400 --> 0:23:37.560
<v Speaker 2>Cigarette advertising companies, which at the time primarily employed Mabel

0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:41.320
<v Speaker 2>advertising executives, quickly co opted the ideas of independence that

0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:43.760
<v Speaker 2>women began to assert at the polls and in the workplace.

0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:46.639
<v Speaker 2>They targeted women, conveying the notions that women who smoked

0:23:46.680 --> 0:23:50.399
<v Speaker 2>were independent, attractive, and even athletic. Lucky Strikes nineteen twenty

0:23:50.400 --> 0:23:52.800
<v Speaker 2>five marketing pitch to women told them to reach for

0:23:52.880 --> 0:23:55.920
<v Speaker 2>a lucky instead of a suite, the message smoke and

0:23:56.000 --> 0:23:56.640
<v Speaker 2>you'll be thin.

0:23:57.480 --> 0:23:58.840
<v Speaker 3>Oh great, there is.

0:23:59.480 --> 0:24:00.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's pretty fun.

0:24:00.920 --> 0:24:02.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah how long that would take?

0:24:03.200 --> 0:24:05.679
<v Speaker 2>And this is number one. One thing that starts to

0:24:05.720 --> 0:24:08.639
<v Speaker 2>happen in this is a whole new generation of extremely

0:24:08.680 --> 0:24:11.920
<v Speaker 2>skinny female models starts to become popular because of this

0:24:12.040 --> 0:24:15.920
<v Speaker 2>Lucky Strike ad campaign they helped to create, like that

0:24:15.920 --> 0:24:18.159
<v Speaker 2>that whole great thing, that whole trend.

0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:20.919
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, body image.

0:24:21.520 --> 0:24:24.520
<v Speaker 2>Now this there's a backlash to this, and there's kind

0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:28.560
<v Speaker 2>of a war between cigarettes and the candy industry, and

0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:30.440
<v Speaker 2>it's it's very funny that one of the cigarettes that

0:24:30.480 --> 0:24:32.040
<v Speaker 2>will come in the market at this time, I think

0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:35.760
<v Speaker 2>it might be Marlboroughs. Their advertising campaign is to like

0:24:36.080 --> 0:24:38.840
<v Speaker 2>push back at camel by being like, no, cigarettes and

0:24:38.920 --> 0:24:41.520
<v Speaker 2>candy are both good for you. You should have your

0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:46.000
<v Speaker 2>cigarette and your chocolate. They're a healthy treat. But no,

0:24:46.080 --> 0:24:47.919
<v Speaker 2>the candy industry has to be like, the fuck are

0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:51.960
<v Speaker 2>you saying about people not eating candy? Come on, we're

0:24:52.000 --> 0:24:53.600
<v Speaker 2>not trying to shit on cigarettes.

0:24:53.640 --> 0:25:01.000
<v Speaker 3>Here, they're just too nice, you won't care. And just

0:25:01.040 --> 0:25:03.600
<v Speaker 3>when they start making candy cigarettes and reading, well.

0:25:03.520 --> 0:25:06.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is that. And in this period. One of

0:25:06.160 --> 0:25:09.120
<v Speaker 2>the interesting things about candy cigarettes when they first get made,

0:25:09.480 --> 0:25:12.119
<v Speaker 2>they're all made with the brands of real cigarettes. So

0:25:12.119 --> 0:25:15.840
<v Speaker 2>there'll be cammebl's now not legally they're all illegal. They're

0:25:15.840 --> 0:25:20.520
<v Speaker 2>all candy companies using a brand illegally. The cigarette industry

0:25:20.560 --> 0:25:23.959
<v Speaker 2>makes a concerted decision to never pursue charges over it,

0:25:24.000 --> 0:25:26.719
<v Speaker 2>to never go after them, because they're like, well, if

0:25:26.840 --> 0:25:28.720
<v Speaker 2>kids get used to picking up a pack of camels,

0:25:28.800 --> 0:25:34.080
<v Speaker 2>that's a win for us. Yeah, Like, there's no downside

0:25:34.119 --> 0:25:35.280
<v Speaker 2>to us letting them do this.

0:25:36.480 --> 0:25:38.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's a win for everyone. Great.

0:25:39.200 --> 0:25:41.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Now, one thing that does happen in the post

0:25:42.040 --> 0:25:45.119
<v Speaker 2>war period is that female smokers are an easier target

0:25:45.160 --> 0:25:48.320
<v Speaker 2>for anti smoking advocates than soldiers who are you know,

0:25:48.560 --> 0:25:51.919
<v Speaker 2>heroic and stuff. When the Eighteenth Amendment gets past banning

0:25:51.960 --> 0:25:55.560
<v Speaker 2>the sale of alcohol, moral crusaders like evangelist Billy Sunday

0:25:55.600 --> 0:25:59.040
<v Speaker 2>turn their attention to tobacco, saying in one speech, prohibition

0:25:59.160 --> 0:26:02.880
<v Speaker 2>is one now for tobacco. The Women's Christian Temperance Union

0:26:03.440 --> 0:26:07.280
<v Speaker 2>issued a pamphlet titled Smoking Next. The first success in

0:26:07.320 --> 0:26:09.639
<v Speaker 2>this wave of the anti smoking movement came in Utah,

0:26:09.800 --> 0:26:13.320
<v Speaker 2>which banned the sale, giving away, or other exchange of cigarettes.

0:26:13.640 --> 0:26:17.800
<v Speaker 2>The bill's advocates included the WCTU and and the Mormon Church,

0:26:17.880 --> 0:26:20.560
<v Speaker 2>both of which emphasized the moral risks of letting women

0:26:20.640 --> 0:26:24.440
<v Speaker 2>be seen smoking. Senator Edward Southwick, who wrote the bill,

0:26:24.680 --> 0:26:28.240
<v Speaker 2>quoted US Surgeon General Hugh Cumming, which was his real name,

0:26:29.240 --> 0:26:33.040
<v Speaker 2>as saying, if American women generally contract the habit as

0:26:33.040 --> 0:26:36.080
<v Speaker 2>reports now indicate they are doing, the entire American nation

0:26:36.160 --> 0:26:38.560
<v Speaker 2>will suffer. The physical tone of the whole nation will

0:26:38.560 --> 0:26:40.919
<v Speaker 2>be lowered. This is one of the most evil influences

0:26:40.920 --> 0:26:43.720
<v Speaker 2>in American life today. The habit harms a woman more

0:26:43.760 --> 0:26:51.600
<v Speaker 2>than it does a man. Great, thanks you, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

0:26:52.119 --> 0:26:55.040
<v Speaker 2>real smart guy, real comer. Hugh.

0:26:55.440 --> 0:26:58.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there are the names he could have been cursed

0:26:58.000 --> 0:26:59.880
<v Speaker 3>with which his first name could have been worse.

0:27:00.320 --> 0:27:05.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but you know what will make you come, James,

0:27:07.520 --> 0:27:11.880
<v Speaker 2>Please lend me the sponsors of our podcasts, not their products,

0:27:11.960 --> 0:27:15.400
<v Speaker 2>which are a sexual but the actual people who run

0:27:15.440 --> 0:27:19.120
<v Speaker 2>an own stock in the companies. Any time you ask for.

0:27:19.040 --> 0:27:22.720
<v Speaker 3>It, that's that's a promise. Yeah, I don't put that

0:27:22.760 --> 0:27:23.600
<v Speaker 3>in the old context.

0:27:23.600 --> 0:27:34.240
<v Speaker 2>But ah, we're back. We're talking about come. You know,

0:27:34.440 --> 0:27:37.000
<v Speaker 2>every time I talk about come on this show, somebody

0:27:37.000 --> 0:27:39.400
<v Speaker 2>gets up in the subreddit and they're like, I wish

0:27:39.400 --> 0:27:43.159
<v Speaker 2>they wouldn't make juvenile jokes about come. It's not very funny.

0:27:43.320 --> 0:27:45.040
<v Speaker 3>It's exceptionally funny to make you.

0:27:45.840 --> 0:27:48.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, look, I am never going to stop making jokes

0:27:48.720 --> 0:27:50.920
<v Speaker 2>about come, and I'm never going to stop telling people

0:27:50.920 --> 0:27:54.440
<v Speaker 2>that when Mitch McConnell comes, all that exits his penis

0:27:54.840 --> 0:27:57.800
<v Speaker 2>is a mix of dry scabs and spider legs.

0:27:58.840 --> 0:28:01.320
<v Speaker 3>That that well, no juvenile, is still funny.

0:28:01.480 --> 0:28:01.800
<v Speaker 2>It is.

0:28:01.840 --> 0:28:05.160
<v Speaker 3>It's funny and true, exceptionally funny. Yeah, it's true, and

0:28:05.680 --> 0:28:07.400
<v Speaker 3>he can sew us over it, will take him to court.

0:28:08.840 --> 0:28:10.440
<v Speaker 3>Shows show us the evidence, Mitch.

0:28:10.680 --> 0:28:13.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, show us the evidence, Mitch, show us the evidence

0:28:13.280 --> 0:28:16.480
<v Speaker 2>that when you come, the dry scabs exiting year urethra

0:28:16.840 --> 0:28:20.919
<v Speaker 2>don't make a sound exactly like crabs scuttling on a

0:28:21.040 --> 0:28:25.400
<v Speaker 2>soap stone bed. Prove it to me. Prove it to me, Mitch.

0:28:26.280 --> 0:28:28.000
<v Speaker 3>I now physically and will.

0:28:30.520 --> 0:28:31.760
<v Speaker 2>Would you like a cigarette?

0:28:32.280 --> 0:28:39.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? I think I've been traumatized on a level. Yeah,

0:28:39.240 --> 0:28:40.440
<v Speaker 3>I'd like to shorten my life.

0:28:40.600 --> 0:28:42.640
<v Speaker 2>Yes, well, why don't you reach for a lucky instead

0:28:42.680 --> 0:28:43.440
<v Speaker 2>of a sweet.

0:28:44.120 --> 0:28:46.760
<v Speaker 3>That will help me stay maintain my girl physique.

0:28:47.440 --> 0:28:51.720
<v Speaker 2>So as we've just come back, the Surgeon General has

0:28:51.720 --> 0:28:54.400
<v Speaker 2>been like, this is going to lower the moral tone

0:28:54.440 --> 0:28:57.840
<v Speaker 2>of women. And again, I just so that I'm not mistaken.

0:28:58.440 --> 0:29:01.920
<v Speaker 2>Cigarettes are bad. Don't smoke them. These people are technically

0:29:01.960 --> 0:29:03.560
<v Speaker 2>in the right, but they're in the right for the

0:29:03.600 --> 0:29:07.120
<v Speaker 2>wrong reasons usually, so fuck them. I'm going to quote

0:29:07.120 --> 0:29:10.400
<v Speaker 2>again from Alan Brandt here, another supporter of the legislation,

0:29:10.520 --> 0:29:13.160
<v Speaker 2>noted that the fingers of our girls are being varnished

0:29:13.160 --> 0:29:15.920
<v Speaker 2>with the stains of those harmful little instruments of destruction,

0:29:16.520 --> 0:29:19.320
<v Speaker 2>just as earlier opponents of the cigarette had done. Senator

0:29:19.320 --> 0:29:21.800
<v Speaker 2>Southwook argued that the use of the cigarette violated the

0:29:21.840 --> 0:29:25.400
<v Speaker 2>liberties of non smokers, which is fair, offended moral sensibilities

0:29:25.440 --> 0:29:28.440
<v Speaker 2>which is unfair, and polluted public space, which is we'll

0:29:28.440 --> 0:29:31.200
<v Speaker 2>call that one mixed. We cannot bring our wives and

0:29:31.280 --> 0:29:33.560
<v Speaker 2>daughters to the city, he wrote, and cannot come along

0:29:33.600 --> 0:29:36.800
<v Speaker 2>without encountering tobacco smoke everywhere. Is it that saturates our

0:29:36.800 --> 0:29:40.440
<v Speaker 2>clothing and nauseates us personal liberty. Ours is as inviolate

0:29:40.600 --> 0:29:42.520
<v Speaker 2>or as or should be as theirs.

0:29:43.640 --> 0:29:48.240
<v Speaker 3>Amazing. Yeah, when industry is ripping children's arms off their body.

0:29:48.240 --> 0:29:52.560
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, No, people are just burning pure petroleum jelly

0:29:52.600 --> 0:29:55.040
<v Speaker 2>in the back of a fucking model ty Yeah.

0:29:55.120 --> 0:29:58.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, just pouring some lead into the reserve lead tank.

0:29:58.640 --> 0:30:03.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah again, fucking nineteen twenty two. Your worst encounter is

0:30:03.280 --> 0:30:05.840
<v Speaker 2>not going to be with tobacco smoke in the streets of society.

0:30:06.440 --> 0:30:09.480
<v Speaker 3>The coal burning colonialism factory isn't a problem. It's women

0:30:09.560 --> 0:30:10.880
<v Speaker 3>smoking that we need to worry about.

0:30:11.480 --> 0:30:14.600
<v Speaker 2>Now. By nineteen twenty two, sixteen states had banned a

0:30:14.680 --> 0:30:17.520
<v Speaker 2>restrict the cigarette sales and promotion, but none of these

0:30:17.520 --> 0:30:21.040
<v Speaker 2>restrictions lasted long. The disaster that was prohibition and the

0:30:21.040 --> 0:30:25.040
<v Speaker 2>growing number of tobacco addicts made the anti smoking cause untenable.

0:30:25.360 --> 0:30:27.480
<v Speaker 2>A chief issue with the fight to restrict smoking was

0:30:27.520 --> 0:30:30.240
<v Speaker 2>the fact that it rested mostly on moral panic grounds.

0:30:30.320 --> 0:30:33.360
<v Speaker 2>Right again, If all of these people are saying smoking

0:30:33.440 --> 0:30:35.480
<v Speaker 2>is horrible for your health, and I'm sure we shouldn't

0:30:35.480 --> 0:30:37.600
<v Speaker 2>be doing it, that's one thing. But a lot of

0:30:37.680 --> 0:30:40.280
<v Speaker 2>them are being like, well, women shouldn't be smoking. It's

0:30:40.320 --> 0:30:42.120
<v Speaker 2>bad for kins to see it it's going to stain

0:30:42.120 --> 0:30:46.080
<v Speaker 2>in their hands. They don't have at this point, they

0:30:46.080 --> 0:30:50.800
<v Speaker 2>don't have widely agreed upon medical evidence that smoking is

0:30:50.880 --> 0:30:53.080
<v Speaker 2>bad for you, And in fact, a lot of doctors

0:30:53.080 --> 0:30:55.760
<v Speaker 2>will argue that smoking is if not healthy, then not

0:30:56.120 --> 0:30:59.320
<v Speaker 2>a serious harm. It was not as common in this

0:30:59.400 --> 0:31:02.240
<v Speaker 2>period for you have doctors be like, smoking clears your lungs,

0:31:02.480 --> 0:31:04.920
<v Speaker 2>But most of them tended to be like, well, it's

0:31:04.960 --> 0:31:07.000
<v Speaker 2>not that bad for you, right, you know, It's like

0:31:07.040 --> 0:31:09.360
<v Speaker 2>it's like it is like eating candy, right, that's what

0:31:09.360 --> 0:31:11.440
<v Speaker 2>they It's not like eating candy. Please. I'm not saying

0:31:11.440 --> 0:31:14.080
<v Speaker 2>that someone's gonna get really angry at me. I'm just saying,

0:31:14.120 --> 0:31:17.440
<v Speaker 2>if you're a doctor in the twenties, odds are rather

0:31:17.520 --> 0:31:20.040
<v Speaker 2>than saying smoking is bad for you, saying like, well,

0:31:20.280 --> 0:31:22.880
<v Speaker 2>it's probably okay to have the occasional cigarette as part

0:31:22.920 --> 0:31:26.400
<v Speaker 2>of a balanced diet or whatever, you know. Right, And again,

0:31:26.880 --> 0:31:29.760
<v Speaker 2>doctors are heavily debating as the thirties dawn whether or

0:31:29.840 --> 0:31:33.880
<v Speaker 2>not smoking causes cancer. There were studies by this point

0:31:33.920 --> 0:31:37.480
<v Speaker 2>that showed a correlation between self reported smoking habits and

0:31:37.600 --> 0:31:40.320
<v Speaker 2>lung cancer, and by the nineteen twenties, rates of lung

0:31:40.360 --> 0:31:42.960
<v Speaker 2>cancer had started to soar. Given all of this, it

0:31:43.040 --> 0:31:45.200
<v Speaker 2>might seem easy to prove a link between cigarettes and

0:31:45.280 --> 0:31:49.120
<v Speaker 2>lung cancer, but it's not. All you've got in the

0:31:49.160 --> 0:31:52.400
<v Speaker 2>twenties is that there's a correlation between the two. But

0:31:52.440 --> 0:31:55.640
<v Speaker 2>obviously cigarettes aren't the only thing that's been introduced to

0:31:55.720 --> 0:31:58.640
<v Speaker 2>modern life in the early part of the twentieth century,

0:31:58.680 --> 0:32:02.320
<v Speaker 2>Right there's cars now, Suddenly people are getting a whole

0:32:02.320 --> 0:32:05.040
<v Speaker 2>bunch of different medications that didn't used to exist. All

0:32:05.120 --> 0:32:08.480
<v Speaker 2>sorts of shit is around that just wasn't before. So

0:32:08.760 --> 0:32:10.920
<v Speaker 2>how do you know, how do you know think about this?

0:32:11.200 --> 0:32:13.160
<v Speaker 2>How can you prove if you're just a dude in

0:32:13.280 --> 0:32:17.440
<v Speaker 2>nineteen twenty fucking two, that the thing causing lung cancer

0:32:17.440 --> 0:32:20.160
<v Speaker 2>in your friends is the cigarette and not the car

0:32:20.320 --> 0:32:23.560
<v Speaker 2>or the fucking fluorescent light bulbs, right, Like, you don't know,

0:32:23.760 --> 0:32:27.880
<v Speaker 2>there's not evidence at this point, you know, Yeah, it is.

0:32:28.040 --> 0:32:30.120
<v Speaker 3>Part of this industrial my identity again.

0:32:30.480 --> 0:32:34.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, a lot has changed really quickly, and there's actually

0:32:34.160 --> 0:32:37.480
<v Speaker 2>there's some surprisingly logical reasons to question the early science.

0:32:37.800 --> 0:32:40.520
<v Speaker 2>One doctor and critic over fears of cigarette use. One

0:32:40.560 --> 0:32:42.760
<v Speaker 2>of the guys who's arguing against the people saying that

0:32:42.880 --> 0:32:45.640
<v Speaker 2>lung cancer and smoking are correlated. One of the things

0:32:45.640 --> 0:32:48.160
<v Speaker 2>he says is that, like, well, when we get lung

0:32:48.160 --> 0:32:50.280
<v Speaker 2>cancer patients, they have a lung and one they have

0:32:50.320 --> 0:32:52.360
<v Speaker 2>a tumor and one lung or the other. Very few

0:32:52.400 --> 0:32:54.760
<v Speaker 2>of them have tumors in both lungs. But when you smoke,

0:32:54.840 --> 0:32:57.640
<v Speaker 2>the smoke is drawn into both lungs equally. So if

0:32:57.640 --> 0:33:00.440
<v Speaker 2>smoking is causing lung cancer, why wouldn't it be causing

0:33:00.480 --> 0:33:03.040
<v Speaker 2>it in both lungs at the same time. Obviously we

0:33:03.120 --> 0:33:06.640
<v Speaker 2>know that's just the way cancer works. Right, But again,

0:33:06.840 --> 0:33:08.560
<v Speaker 2>based on the knowledge at the time, that's not a

0:33:08.600 --> 0:33:11.440
<v Speaker 2>bad point to make. Right, he's wrong, but you can

0:33:11.480 --> 0:33:13.360
<v Speaker 2>see how a person who is not like in the

0:33:13.400 --> 0:33:18.440
<v Speaker 2>pocket of big tobacco could make that stake. Yeah, his

0:33:18.600 --> 0:33:21.960
<v Speaker 2>reasoning is not inherently unsound. Right, he's wrong, but not

0:33:22.200 --> 0:33:25.680
<v Speaker 2>because he's like again, later all the scientists on the

0:33:25.680 --> 0:33:28.760
<v Speaker 2>other side of this will be doing something fundamentally dishonest.

0:33:28.960 --> 0:33:31.400
<v Speaker 2>These are just people trying to understand the human body

0:33:31.400 --> 0:33:32.840
<v Speaker 2>in a period in which we don't have that much

0:33:32.840 --> 0:33:36.960
<v Speaker 2>information about it. Other scientists would argue that the rise

0:33:37.000 --> 0:33:39.120
<v Speaker 2>in lung cancer was attributed to the fact that life

0:33:39.200 --> 0:33:41.600
<v Speaker 2>expectancy had risen a lot in the first quarter of

0:33:41.640 --> 0:33:45.280
<v Speaker 2>the twentieth century, people were getting more weird cancers, they argued,

0:33:45.320 --> 0:33:48.800
<v Speaker 2>because people were living longer. Maybe lung cancer has always

0:33:48.800 --> 0:33:50.440
<v Speaker 2>been normal once you hit a certain age, and we

0:33:50.480 --> 0:33:54.400
<v Speaker 2>just didn't have that many people reaching it. You know, again,

0:33:54.520 --> 0:33:59.280
<v Speaker 2>these are not inherently illogical arguments. Now. There were, however,

0:33:59.400 --> 0:34:02.760
<v Speaker 2>doctors early on who were who figured out what was happening,

0:34:02.840 --> 0:34:05.280
<v Speaker 2>who knew and who put together that there was a

0:34:05.360 --> 0:34:08.720
<v Speaker 2>link between smoking and lung cancer, But it took data

0:34:08.800 --> 0:34:10.960
<v Speaker 2>a long time to catch up with that. For one thing,

0:34:11.200 --> 0:34:14.120
<v Speaker 2>epidemiology is in its infancy in this period of time,

0:34:14.440 --> 0:34:16.800
<v Speaker 2>the first small batch studies, and by the late twenties,

0:34:16.840 --> 0:34:19.680
<v Speaker 2>we have studies that show a correlation between smoking and

0:34:19.719 --> 0:34:23.120
<v Speaker 2>lung cancer, but there's no control group so all they

0:34:23.400 --> 0:34:25.640
<v Speaker 2>show it, So there's no group of people who don't

0:34:25.680 --> 0:34:28.280
<v Speaker 2>smoke to see what their lung cancer rates are, because

0:34:28.320 --> 0:34:31.040
<v Speaker 2>that's not a normal part of medical science. Yet they're

0:34:31.120 --> 0:34:33.879
<v Speaker 2>starting to do that. They're figuring out like, oh, yeah,

0:34:33.920 --> 0:34:36.360
<v Speaker 2>you should have fucking control groups in your medical studies,

0:34:36.480 --> 0:34:39.400
<v Speaker 2>but it's not the thing that you just do. Derigor

0:34:39.520 --> 0:34:41.839
<v Speaker 2>At this point in time, it becomes that partly as

0:34:41.840 --> 0:34:43.880
<v Speaker 2>a result of this research, and in fact, there's a

0:34:43.960 --> 0:34:46.239
<v Speaker 2>nineteen twenty eight article in the New England Journal of

0:34:46.239 --> 0:34:51.239
<v Speaker 2>Medicine in which that points out like it shows a

0:34:51.280 --> 0:34:54.080
<v Speaker 2>link between smoking and lung cancer, but it also points

0:34:54.080 --> 0:34:56.600
<v Speaker 2>out that their study and other similar studies are of

0:34:56.640 --> 0:35:00.280
<v Speaker 2>little value without similar studies on individuals without cancer, without

0:35:00.280 --> 0:35:03.319
<v Speaker 2>control groups. Right, So part of why that becomes more

0:35:03.320 --> 0:35:05.839
<v Speaker 2>common in this period is scientists trying to figure out

0:35:05.840 --> 0:35:08.400
<v Speaker 2>if there's a link between smoking and lung cancer. The

0:35:08.440 --> 0:35:11.480
<v Speaker 2>scientists to write that nineteen twenty eight study, Herbert Lombard and

0:35:11.560 --> 0:35:14.680
<v Speaker 2>paroled during carried out their own small two hundred person

0:35:14.760 --> 0:35:18.080
<v Speaker 2>study with a control group, and this is the first

0:35:18.239 --> 0:35:21.239
<v Speaker 2>good quality study we have that shows lung cancer. Is

0:35:21.520 --> 0:35:23.720
<v Speaker 2>it shows a bunch of things? Number one, I shouldn't

0:35:23.719 --> 0:35:26.680
<v Speaker 2>say shows. It suggests a bunch of things. Number one,

0:35:26.719 --> 0:35:29.680
<v Speaker 2>It suggests that lung cancer is not a contagious disease.

0:35:29.719 --> 0:35:32.360
<v Speaker 2>Which how would you have known that, you know, without psyche,

0:35:32.640 --> 0:35:34.799
<v Speaker 2>you don't know that people aren't giving it to each other, Right,

0:35:34.880 --> 0:35:37.000
<v Speaker 2>that it's not some weird thing that people got when

0:35:37.000 --> 0:35:39.560
<v Speaker 2>they started walking in the Amazon or whatever. Right, how

0:35:39.600 --> 0:35:42.319
<v Speaker 2>would you know they know they find they or at

0:35:42.400 --> 0:35:45.080
<v Speaker 2>least the data suggests that it's also there's not a

0:35:45.080 --> 0:35:48.719
<v Speaker 2>correlation between lung cancer and low quality housing, which was

0:35:48.760 --> 0:35:50.879
<v Speaker 2>another thing people didn't know. It's something about the way

0:35:50.880 --> 0:35:53.680
<v Speaker 2>we insulate our homes, you know. They also find out

0:35:53.680 --> 0:35:56.200
<v Speaker 2>that it's not associated with constipation, which was a thing

0:35:56.239 --> 0:35:58.960
<v Speaker 2>that some doc And again we can laugh about that,

0:35:59.080 --> 0:36:01.680
<v Speaker 2>but how would you know if you didn't do the study. Yeah.

0:36:03.760 --> 0:36:06.880
<v Speaker 2>One of the primary, like damning thing the study finds

0:36:06.920 --> 0:36:10.040
<v Speaker 2>is that self reported heavy smokers are twenty seven percent

0:36:10.160 --> 0:36:14.040
<v Speaker 2>likely to get lung cancer. This is the first scientifically

0:36:14.080 --> 0:36:17.399
<v Speaker 2>solid evidence linking cigarettes to lung cancer. Now, two hundred

0:36:17.400 --> 0:36:19.560
<v Speaker 2>person study with a two hundred person control group. That's

0:36:19.600 --> 0:36:22.959
<v Speaker 2>not definitive, right, That's enough to justify further research. Sure,

0:36:23.000 --> 0:36:26.239
<v Speaker 2>but that's not a huge study. The nineteen thirties are

0:36:26.239 --> 0:36:27.759
<v Speaker 2>what we're going to see the first attempts on a

0:36:27.840 --> 0:36:31.280
<v Speaker 2>large scale to document the relationship between cigarettes and cancer.

0:36:31.640 --> 0:36:34.400
<v Speaker 2>The impetus to this, the impetus for this research actually

0:36:34.440 --> 0:36:36.720
<v Speaker 2>comes from one of the few industries that can rifle

0:36:36.719 --> 0:36:40.799
<v Speaker 2>big tobacco for sheer evil, the insurance industry. They are

0:36:40.840 --> 0:36:42.799
<v Speaker 2>the people who are going to break them because they

0:36:42.800 --> 0:36:45.000
<v Speaker 2>see this early research and they're like, wait a second,

0:36:45.080 --> 0:36:46.880
<v Speaker 2>we're paying a shitload of money out on all these

0:36:46.880 --> 0:36:49.600
<v Speaker 2>fuckers dieing a lung cancer. If cigarettes cause it, we

0:36:49.600 --> 0:36:51.920
<v Speaker 2>need to be charging people more if they smoke, right, Like,

0:36:52.560 --> 0:36:55.759
<v Speaker 2>they're doing it for evil reasons, but it is important

0:36:55.800 --> 0:37:01.800
<v Speaker 2>research cos god' zillar exactly. So one of the chief

0:37:01.880 --> 0:37:04.880
<v Speaker 2>drivers of this is a guy named Frederick Hoffman, who

0:37:04.960 --> 0:37:09.040
<v Speaker 2>is a statician at Prudential, and Hoffman notices in nineteen

0:37:09.080 --> 0:37:11.720
<v Speaker 2>thirty one that a lot of fucking life insurance policies

0:37:11.719 --> 0:37:14.640
<v Speaker 2>are being filled for dead lung cancer patients. If smoking

0:37:14.760 --> 0:37:17.040
<v Speaker 2>was the cause, then again you're going to need to

0:37:17.040 --> 0:37:19.680
<v Speaker 2>restructure the way premiums work. A lot of money is

0:37:19.880 --> 0:37:22.399
<v Speaker 2>at stake, which is obviously what interests Prudential. They don't

0:37:22.400 --> 0:37:25.359
<v Speaker 2>care about the cost of human life. So the thing

0:37:25.360 --> 0:37:28.319
<v Speaker 2>that Hoffman notices is that in nineteen fifteen, the lung

0:37:28.360 --> 0:37:31.879
<v Speaker 2>cancer rate stands at about point seven people per thousand people. Right,

0:37:32.120 --> 0:37:35.320
<v Speaker 2>about point seven people per every thousand in the population

0:37:35.400 --> 0:37:38.000
<v Speaker 2>are likely to get lung cancer. By nineteen twenty, it's

0:37:38.080 --> 0:37:41.480
<v Speaker 2>risen to one point one per thousand. It's one point

0:37:41.520 --> 0:37:44.040
<v Speaker 2>six per thousand by nineteen twenty four, and one point

0:37:44.120 --> 0:37:46.759
<v Speaker 2>nine per thousand by nineteen twenty eight. That means in

0:37:46.840 --> 0:37:49.440
<v Speaker 2>thirteen years the rate of lung cancer has nearly tripled.

0:37:50.000 --> 0:37:53.360
<v Speaker 2>Now Hoffman is not bound by the ethical constraints of

0:37:53.400 --> 0:37:55.840
<v Speaker 2>a doctor, right, he doesn't have to wait until he

0:37:55.880 --> 0:37:58.840
<v Speaker 2>has really good data to be like smoking causes lung cancer.

0:37:59.120 --> 0:38:02.640
<v Speaker 2>He sees this, he puts two and two together, and

0:38:02.680 --> 0:38:05.239
<v Speaker 2>he becomes the first prominent pig figure to publish a

0:38:05.320 --> 0:38:08.080
<v Speaker 2>claim that tobacco use is associated with a heightened rate

0:38:08.080 --> 0:38:10.399
<v Speaker 2>of cancer and early death. And he's doing it again

0:38:10.480 --> 0:38:14.000
<v Speaker 2>to warn insurance companies. A new wave of studies follows,

0:38:14.080 --> 0:38:16.080
<v Speaker 2>and as the nineteen thirties gives away to the forties,

0:38:16.120 --> 0:38:19.160
<v Speaker 2>the tobacco industry keeps a worried, watchful eye on this

0:38:19.239 --> 0:38:23.400
<v Speaker 2>emerging science. They also start exploding their advertising budgets in

0:38:23.480 --> 0:38:26.640
<v Speaker 2>order to kind of make up for the increasing talk

0:38:26.719 --> 0:38:29.239
<v Speaker 2>in the background about maybe cigarettes aren't so great too

0:38:29.440 --> 0:38:32.279
<v Speaker 2>for us. In nineteen eleven, prior to the bust of

0:38:32.280 --> 0:38:36.040
<v Speaker 2>the American Tobacco Trust, the entire cigarette industry profited about

0:38:36.120 --> 0:38:39.319
<v Speaker 2>thirteen million dollars a year. By nineteen eighteen, the big

0:38:39.400 --> 0:38:42.360
<v Speaker 2>five tobacco companies were spending more than thirteen million dollars

0:38:42.400 --> 0:38:45.680
<v Speaker 2>every year just in ads. In doing so, they'd helped

0:38:45.760 --> 0:38:48.319
<v Speaker 2>create the very language of American culture. And I'm going

0:38:48.360 --> 0:38:49.840
<v Speaker 2>to quote from a write up in the Journal of

0:38:49.880 --> 0:38:54.680
<v Speaker 2>Marketing Theory and Practice by Richard Pole. Cigarette sellers were

0:38:54.680 --> 0:38:57.360
<v Speaker 2>among the most enthusiastic pioneers in the use of network

0:38:57.400 --> 0:39:01.640
<v Speaker 2>broadcasting for coast to coast advertising. Nineteen thirty American Tobacco,

0:39:01.719 --> 0:39:04.680
<v Speaker 2>Brown and Williamson, P. Lrillard and R. J. Reynolds were

0:39:04.719 --> 0:39:07.560
<v Speaker 2>all buying to network radio time. There has been no

0:39:07.640 --> 0:39:11.560
<v Speaker 2>greater enthusiasts for radio broadcast advertising the George W. Hill

0:39:11.600 --> 0:39:14.000
<v Speaker 2>of the ATC, whose business for the first five months

0:39:14.040 --> 0:39:16.520
<v Speaker 2>of nineteen thirty s are pasted all records. The company

0:39:16.600 --> 0:39:19.920
<v Speaker 2>sponsors the Lucky Strike Dance Orchestra in three hour broadcasts

0:39:20.000 --> 0:39:24.280
<v Speaker 2>each week. Lucky Strike sponsored many radio comedies and musical shows,

0:39:24.280 --> 0:39:26.640
<v Speaker 2>such as Jack Benny and the Ka Kaser College of

0:39:26.760 --> 0:39:29.960
<v Speaker 2>Music Musical Knowledge, and the best known and longest running

0:39:30.000 --> 0:39:33.920
<v Speaker 2>popular musical shows, Lucky Strike's Hit Parade. This show started

0:39:33.920 --> 0:39:36.560
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen twenty eight and ran into the nineteen fifties

0:39:36.560 --> 0:39:39.640
<v Speaker 2>on television. It featured teen idol Frank Sinatra when he

0:39:39.719 --> 0:39:42.319
<v Speaker 2>was launching his career. So popular was this show in

0:39:42.400 --> 0:39:45.680
<v Speaker 2>nineteen thirty eight that a sweepstakes promotion offering free cartons

0:39:45.680 --> 0:39:47.640
<v Speaker 2>of Luckies for the names of the three most popular

0:39:47.680 --> 0:39:51.720
<v Speaker 2>tunes drew nearly seven million entries per week. The Lucky

0:39:51.719 --> 0:39:54.520
<v Speaker 2>Strike Hit Parade was the first show to rank popular

0:39:54.600 --> 0:39:57.160
<v Speaker 2>music releases in an ongoing basis. This is where we

0:39:57.200 --> 0:40:00.400
<v Speaker 2>get the top forty. The entire structure of them musical

0:40:00.400 --> 0:40:02.040
<v Speaker 2>industry comes out of Lucky Strikes.

0:40:01.760 --> 0:40:04.360
<v Speaker 3>Hit The Yeah, so they gave us all those crappy

0:40:04.440 --> 0:40:07.840
<v Speaker 3>Christmas number one singles, And it seems like podcasts.

0:40:07.719 --> 0:40:10.600
<v Speaker 2>And podcasts we all owe a debt to Lucky Strike

0:40:11.480 --> 0:40:12.280
<v Speaker 2>every time.

0:40:12.400 --> 0:40:16.000
<v Speaker 3>You read just saying lucky well in more ways than one,

0:40:16.040 --> 0:40:17.000
<v Speaker 3>I see listening.

0:40:18.320 --> 0:40:20.840
<v Speaker 2>Let's let's all give the good folks at Lucky Strike

0:40:20.880 --> 0:40:23.399
<v Speaker 2>a solid go ahead and pick out a pack right

0:40:23.400 --> 0:40:24.840
<v Speaker 2>now that you don't have to smoke, and give it

0:40:24.840 --> 0:40:27.520
<v Speaker 2>to a kid you know they love to smoke. Sophie,

0:40:27.520 --> 0:40:33.960
<v Speaker 2>what I'm done with my script. I'm throwing the ads now.

0:40:34.440 --> 0:40:36.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm throwing the ads like the good men at R. J.

0:40:36.880 --> 0:40:40.239
<v Speaker 2>Reynolds and Laura Lard and the other greats of the

0:40:40.280 --> 0:40:44.400
<v Speaker 2>tobacco industry taught me to Sophie, I'm I'm I'm honoring

0:40:44.520 --> 0:40:52.800
<v Speaker 2>our ancestors. We're back.

0:40:54.400 --> 0:40:56.200
<v Speaker 3>So we had a cigarette and we're ready to go.

0:40:56.880 --> 0:41:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Cigarettes have now just invented the modern music industry.

0:41:02.239 --> 0:41:04.160
<v Speaker 3>So Lunatic's taken over the asylum house.

0:41:05.400 --> 0:41:06.960
<v Speaker 2>The lunatics had taken over.

0:41:07.680 --> 0:41:10.120
<v Speaker 3>A couple of lucky strikes. They felt better and they

0:41:10.120 --> 0:41:11.280
<v Speaker 3>said a sign them.

0:41:11.400 --> 0:41:14.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's that is a lucky strike, if you ask me.

0:41:14.719 --> 0:41:14.879
<v Speaker 3>So.

0:41:14.920 --> 0:41:18.160
<v Speaker 2>The need to capture smokers young, because market research had

0:41:18.200 --> 0:41:21.000
<v Speaker 2>shown that people tended to be brand loyal, also helped

0:41:21.040 --> 0:41:24.840
<v Speaker 2>to create the modern conception of ad demographics. Right, advertisers

0:41:24.840 --> 0:41:27.440
<v Speaker 2>start learning how to differentiate and split over. You know,

0:41:27.600 --> 0:41:30.000
<v Speaker 2>the idea that like the eighteen to thirty five males

0:41:30.080 --> 0:41:33.040
<v Speaker 2>is like the most valuable that comes out here, right,

0:41:33.440 --> 0:41:35.719
<v Speaker 2>And it's because like those are, that's when you got

0:41:35.719 --> 0:41:38.680
<v Speaker 2>to get them fucker smoking right earlier possible.

0:41:38.760 --> 0:41:40.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, it's ready to keep.

0:41:41.080 --> 0:41:44.360
<v Speaker 2>Ideally, I'll like eleven or twelve. They advertise a lot

0:41:44.440 --> 0:41:47.600
<v Speaker 2>in colleges, and they also it leads tobacco companies to

0:41:47.600 --> 0:41:51.200
<v Speaker 2>steer more and more towards funding children's entertainment. This starts

0:41:51.239 --> 0:41:54.680
<v Speaker 2>with the comics pages a syndicated weekly pop collection called

0:41:54.760 --> 0:41:58.800
<v Speaker 2>Puck is like massive for cigarette ads, but as Poli

0:41:58.920 --> 0:42:02.720
<v Speaker 2>rights and quickly expand beyond that quote. In the nineteen fifties,

0:42:02.719 --> 0:42:06.400
<v Speaker 2>many brands used cartoon trade characters in their advertising. The

0:42:06.400 --> 0:42:08.760
<v Speaker 2>ads on Lucky Strikes Hit Parade for a while featured

0:42:08.760 --> 0:42:11.640
<v Speaker 2>a cute animated character called Scoop, who, through the then

0:42:11.680 --> 0:42:15.720
<v Speaker 2>impressive technical feet of superimposition, appeared on a on screen

0:42:15.760 --> 0:42:18.719
<v Speaker 2>with the show's star Dorothy Collins. So that's where we

0:42:18.760 --> 0:42:21.840
<v Speaker 2>get who framed Roger Rabbit? Motherfucker's cigarettes taught us how

0:42:21.880 --> 0:42:23.719
<v Speaker 2>to do that?

0:42:22.680 --> 0:42:28.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, gave us avata.

0:42:26.719 --> 0:42:31.400
<v Speaker 2>Philip Morris's us Philip Morris's cartoons when advertising on Philip

0:42:31.400 --> 0:42:34.719
<v Speaker 2>Morris used cartoons when advertising on I Love Lucy. Laura

0:42:34.800 --> 0:42:37.800
<v Speaker 2>Lard created TV cartoon ads for Old Gold that featured

0:42:37.800 --> 0:42:41.440
<v Speaker 2>the voices of their Honeymooners stars Jackie Gleeson and Art Carney.

0:42:41.800 --> 0:42:44.719
<v Speaker 2>This presaged the Winston spots that employed the animated hit

0:42:44.800 --> 0:42:48.680
<v Speaker 2>characters from The Flintstones, a totally cartoon show they sponsored,

0:42:48.800 --> 0:42:52.200
<v Speaker 2>whose voices, structure, and sense of humor all imitated the Honeymooners.

0:42:52.680 --> 0:42:55.160
<v Speaker 2>And I think a lot of people are vaguely aware

0:42:55.200 --> 0:42:59.759
<v Speaker 2>that The Flintstones used to have cigarette ads. You knew that, right, No, whoa,

0:43:00.480 --> 0:43:03.600
<v Speaker 2>that's why it was created. The Flintstones were made as

0:43:03.640 --> 0:43:07.319
<v Speaker 2>a cigarette ad. And to get an idea for how

0:43:07.360 --> 0:43:10.279
<v Speaker 2>blatant this advertising was, you need to see some old

0:43:10.320 --> 0:43:12.720
<v Speaker 2>episodes of The Flintstones, and I think this one includes

0:43:12.760 --> 0:43:15.560
<v Speaker 2>a representative scene you should know to understand what's happening

0:43:15.560 --> 0:43:17.680
<v Speaker 2>on screen. Right at the start of this, we see

0:43:17.680 --> 0:43:19.520
<v Speaker 2>Fred and Barney kind of like hanging out in the

0:43:19.560 --> 0:43:22.520
<v Speaker 2>yard on their asses while their wives are doing like

0:43:22.640 --> 0:43:25.080
<v Speaker 2>yard work and house chores. So they're like chilling out

0:43:25.120 --> 0:43:26.239
<v Speaker 2>and watching their wives work.

0:43:26.960 --> 0:43:27.560
<v Speaker 3>Good stuff.

0:43:31.280 --> 0:43:36.879
<v Speaker 2>They sure work, God, don't they're them work so hard? Yeah?

0:43:37.040 --> 0:43:41.040
<v Speaker 2>Me tool and let's go around back. Well, we can't see.

0:43:40.880 --> 0:43:43.640
<v Speaker 3>Him, do we want to do something?

0:43:43.680 --> 0:43:47.360
<v Speaker 2>Fred? Okay, how's about taking on that? I got a

0:43:47.400 --> 0:43:48.040
<v Speaker 2>better idea.

0:43:48.440 --> 0:43:50.000
<v Speaker 3>Let's take a Winston break.

0:43:52.360 --> 0:43:55.719
<v Speaker 2>From the cigarette that delivers flavor twenty times a pack

0:44:02.040 --> 0:44:04.640
<v Speaker 2>makes the big taste difference, and only Winston has it

0:44:05.000 --> 0:44:07.919
<v Speaker 2>up front where it comes here ahead of the pure

0:44:07.920 --> 0:44:13.680
<v Speaker 2>white silt Winston packs, rich tobaccos, specially selected and specially Wow,

0:44:13.840 --> 0:44:18.759
<v Speaker 2>that's a good flavor. Room. Yeah, it's still going yeah,

0:44:19.320 --> 0:44:26.360
<v Speaker 2>like uh cigarette. Uh yeah, that is a lot of

0:44:26.440 --> 0:44:27.799
<v Speaker 2>cigarette advertising.

0:44:28.200 --> 0:44:30.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I was. At first, I was appalled by the

0:44:30.520 --> 0:44:33.759
<v Speaker 3>records of it, but then just the duration of it. Yeah.

0:44:33.760 --> 0:44:37.319
<v Speaker 2>Wow, they really were committed to selling kids cigarettes.

0:44:37.520 --> 0:44:40.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, whist and also not a great name compared

0:44:40.800 --> 0:44:45.200
<v Speaker 3>to the Camel Camel Marlborough. Yeah, just a dude called

0:44:45.239 --> 0:44:49.400
<v Speaker 3>Winston with little imagination. Yeah wow, that was amazing.

0:44:49.719 --> 0:44:51.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's the best. Yeah.

0:44:51.600 --> 0:44:56.040
<v Speaker 3>That is like Alex Jones here just transissued from content

0:44:56.120 --> 0:44:56.680
<v Speaker 3>to ads.

0:44:56.920 --> 0:44:59.520
<v Speaker 2>Fucking Barney Rubble wants to get your ass into a

0:44:59.600 --> 0:45:00.960
<v Speaker 2>pack of Winston's.

0:45:01.200 --> 0:45:03.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's going to be doing what is it, fucking

0:45:03.640 --> 0:45:05.200
<v Speaker 3>silver or whatever Alex Jokes.

0:45:05.040 --> 0:45:08.080
<v Speaker 2>Is trying to sell you now, colloidal silver? Yes, to

0:45:08.239 --> 0:45:10.360
<v Speaker 2>see past that you can shoot up your ass.

0:45:10.400 --> 0:45:13.680
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, yeah, nor do I care. I don't

0:45:13.680 --> 0:45:16.160
<v Speaker 3>think our listenership overlapped, so no one else knows either,

0:45:16.200 --> 0:45:16.680
<v Speaker 3>So it's fine.

0:45:16.719 --> 0:45:18.719
<v Speaker 2>No, our listeners are buying a lot of gold now

0:45:18.760 --> 0:45:20.160
<v Speaker 2>because of those gold ads running.

0:45:20.440 --> 0:45:22.040
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, well that's good to say. Success. We have

0:45:22.080 --> 0:45:23.400
<v Speaker 3>to get him back to the season.

0:45:23.880 --> 0:45:24.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:45:24.400 --> 0:45:26.279
<v Speaker 2>We love we love the gold ad people. You know,

0:45:26.320 --> 0:45:28.239
<v Speaker 2>I'm just gonna I'm gonna do a free ad. Right now,

0:45:28.600 --> 0:45:33.080
<v Speaker 2>buy gold. It's the cigarettes of currency. Well, actually that's cigarettes.

0:45:33.320 --> 0:45:36.160
<v Speaker 2>Gold's almost as valuable as cigarettes and the pinch. So

0:45:37.400 --> 0:45:40.560
<v Speaker 2>it pick some up today, smoke it. Why don't you

0:45:40.719 --> 0:45:43.439
<v Speaker 2>you know what, James, I have an idea. Why don't

0:45:43.440 --> 0:45:46.480
<v Speaker 2>we make a lot of money. We get cigarettes, grind

0:45:46.560 --> 0:45:49.440
<v Speaker 2>up gold into them, pour gold flakes into the cigarettes,

0:45:49.480 --> 0:45:51.840
<v Speaker 2>and then sell them to rich assholes who have taped.

0:45:52.239 --> 0:45:54.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's definitely. There's like a thing, isn't it like

0:45:54.920 --> 0:45:56.720
<v Speaker 3>a vodka? Don't think that has got.

0:45:56.680 --> 0:45:58.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, there's a couple of liquors that have.

0:46:01.719 --> 0:46:04.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you may, it's not necessary, Sophie, but I need to.

0:46:04.480 --> 0:46:08.120
<v Speaker 1>Signy so many gold gold unussary gold.

0:46:09.120 --> 0:46:14.680
<v Speaker 2>So you know how there's you know, Robert getting script

0:46:15.400 --> 0:46:16.120
<v Speaker 2>poured out some.

0:46:16.080 --> 0:46:20.200
<v Speaker 3>Gold liquor and uh yeah right, I'm back.

0:46:20.120 --> 0:46:21.160
<v Speaker 2>Wrap a cigarette.

0:46:21.520 --> 0:46:24.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah there was no gold, but I've got my glass

0:46:24.520 --> 0:46:26.320
<v Speaker 3>of lead.

0:46:25.840 --> 0:46:31.320
<v Speaker 2>And so during the late forties to the early fifties,

0:46:31.400 --> 0:46:34.360
<v Speaker 2>the science coming out about cigarettes and cancer starts to

0:46:34.400 --> 0:46:37.480
<v Speaker 2>look worse and worse. The RJ. Reynolds Company launches a

0:46:37.520 --> 0:46:41.280
<v Speaker 2>new campaign for camel cigarettes in nineteen forty six, centered

0:46:41.320 --> 0:46:44.319
<v Speaker 2>around the slogan more doctor smoked camels than any other

0:46:44.360 --> 0:46:47.719
<v Speaker 2>cigarette six years. This is like, this is their main

0:46:47.840 --> 0:46:49.720
<v Speaker 2>advertising push for six years.

0:46:49.800 --> 0:46:51.880
<v Speaker 3>Dentist and tooth brush thing with cigarettes.

0:46:52.080 --> 0:46:56.879
<v Speaker 2>Amazing, great, Yeah, absolutely, yes, the cigarette that nine out

0:46:56.880 --> 0:47:00.479
<v Speaker 2>of ten doctors recommend. Reynolds backs up their claim that's

0:47:00.760 --> 0:47:04.120
<v Speaker 2>more stick doctors smoke camels than any other cigarette, with

0:47:04.239 --> 0:47:07.080
<v Speaker 2>surveys that they said had been conducted by quote three

0:47:07.239 --> 0:47:11.800
<v Speaker 2>leading independent research organizations. Now they don't name these organizations.

0:47:12.200 --> 0:47:15.040
<v Speaker 2>One representative ad claims that a survey of one hundred

0:47:15.040 --> 0:47:18.440
<v Speaker 2>and thirteen five hundred and ninety seven doctors from quote

0:47:18.640 --> 0:47:21.759
<v Speaker 2>every branch of medicine had shown that Camels were the

0:47:21.840 --> 0:47:24.880
<v Speaker 2>brand most often smoked by doctors.

0:47:24.880 --> 0:47:27.920
<v Speaker 3>That's what you want is a cigarette that your pediatrist chooses?

0:47:28.080 --> 0:47:32.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, really, yeah, I want to know. Yeah, nobody,

0:47:32.200 --> 0:47:35.279
<v Speaker 2>nobody knows what you should be smoking better than a

0:47:35.280 --> 0:47:39.600
<v Speaker 2>fucking proctologist. That that's that's that's who's got it down. Yeah,

0:47:39.680 --> 0:47:48.200
<v Speaker 2>as an obstetricians chooses Winston's. Yeah, that would be quite funny.

0:47:48.280 --> 0:47:48.480
<v Speaker 1>Boy.

0:47:48.520 --> 0:47:50.759
<v Speaker 2>Women seem to really want a cigarette after giving birth.

0:47:50.960 --> 0:47:51.880
<v Speaker 2>Probably good for you.

0:47:53.800 --> 0:47:56.680
<v Speaker 3>Why don't you drink? So?

0:47:58.280 --> 0:47:58.480
<v Speaker 1>R J.

0:47:58.640 --> 0:48:03.400
<v Speaker 2>Reynolds assured, cutustomers that this survey, which totally existed, was

0:48:03.480 --> 0:48:07.439
<v Speaker 2>an actual fact and not a casual claim, and their

0:48:07.440 --> 0:48:11.120
<v Speaker 2>competitors were all doing the same thing. American Tobacco present

0:48:11.160 --> 0:48:15.040
<v Speaker 2>president George Washington Hill contracted the legendary ad executive Albert

0:48:15.160 --> 0:48:17.640
<v Speaker 2>Lasker and tasked him to come up with a reason

0:48:17.719 --> 0:48:20.600
<v Speaker 2>why customers should smoke his cigarettes. And I want to

0:48:20.680 --> 0:48:22.480
<v Speaker 2>quote now from a write up in the American Journal

0:48:22.520 --> 0:48:25.799
<v Speaker 2>of Public Health. With no real scientific evidence to back

0:48:25.840 --> 0:48:29.239
<v Speaker 2>their claims, American Tobacco insisted that the toasting process that

0:48:29.320 --> 0:48:33.720
<v Speaker 2>Lucky Strikes Tobacco underwent decreased throat irritation. In fact, Lucky

0:48:33.719 --> 0:48:36.600
<v Speaker 2>Strikes curing process did not significantly differ from that of

0:48:36.680 --> 0:48:41.239
<v Speaker 2>other brands. Related campaigns emphasized that Luckies would help consumers,

0:48:41.360 --> 0:48:44.480
<v Speaker 2>especially women, their new market stay trimmed since they could

0:48:44.640 --> 0:48:46.880
<v Speaker 2>reach for a Lucky instead of a suite. Along with

0:48:46.880 --> 0:48:50.080
<v Speaker 2>these persistent health claims, a typical advertisement from nineteen thirty

0:48:50.080 --> 0:48:53.840
<v Speaker 2>boldly stated that twenty six hundred and seventy nine physicians

0:48:53.840 --> 0:48:59.759
<v Speaker 2>say Luckies they're less irritating. Good Great now, James, do

0:48:59.800 --> 0:49:01.920
<v Speaker 2>you want to know how they'd gotten the information that

0:49:02.000 --> 0:49:04.400
<v Speaker 2>Luckies were seen as less irritating by doctors.

0:49:05.080 --> 0:49:07.960
<v Speaker 3>Did they send them a capacut of lucky strikes? And also,

0:49:08.520 --> 0:49:10.879
<v Speaker 3>shit they did.

0:49:11.600 --> 0:49:15.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Their advertising agency, Lloyd Thomas and Logan sent cigarette

0:49:15.239 --> 0:49:18.160
<v Speaker 2>cartons to physicians in nineteen twenty six, nineteen twenty seven,

0:49:18.239 --> 0:49:20.840
<v Speaker 2>and nineteen twenty eight and then asked them to answer

0:49:20.880 --> 0:49:24.000
<v Speaker 2>our Lucky strike cigarettes less irritating to tender throats than

0:49:24.040 --> 0:49:26.839
<v Speaker 2>other cigarettes. And the doctors were like, yeah, I want

0:49:26.880 --> 0:49:27.799
<v Speaker 2>more free cigarettes.

0:49:27.840 --> 0:49:31.120
<v Speaker 3>Sure, yeah, I what's free cigarette bolk school. I'll take

0:49:31.120 --> 0:49:34.560
<v Speaker 3>that one, great good. That's how science is done.

0:49:34.800 --> 0:49:36.000
<v Speaker 2>That is how science is done.

0:49:36.440 --> 0:49:36.640
<v Speaker 3>Yep.

0:49:37.120 --> 0:49:40.720
<v Speaker 2>Now, touting the toasting process and the accompanying cover letter,

0:49:40.960 --> 0:49:44.360
<v Speaker 2>advertising executive Thomas Logan pointed out the virtues of lucky

0:49:44.360 --> 0:49:46.520
<v Speaker 2>strikes and claimed that they had quote heard from a

0:49:46.520 --> 0:49:48.840
<v Speaker 2>good many people that they could smoke lucky strikes with

0:49:48.880 --> 0:49:53.000
<v Speaker 2>perfect comfort to their throats. American Tobacco used doctor's responses

0:49:53.040 --> 0:49:55.400
<v Speaker 2>to this survey in order to push the claim that

0:49:55.480 --> 0:50:00.000
<v Speaker 2>lucky strikes are less irritating. The toasting, as they explained,

0:50:00.000 --> 0:50:03.400
<v Speaker 2>it is quote your throat protection against irritation against cough.

0:50:04.160 --> 0:50:07.560
<v Speaker 2>Thank god, thank god they figured out toasting, Otherwise these

0:50:07.560 --> 0:50:09.160
<v Speaker 2>cigarettes might really are hurt people.

0:50:09.760 --> 0:50:11.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, yeah, you got to toast them. That's how

0:50:11.480 --> 0:50:13.319
<v Speaker 3>you just popic up the cigarettes and your toast it.

0:50:13.640 --> 0:50:17.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, no counser for you. So.

0:50:18.520 --> 0:50:22.440
<v Speaker 2>Self reported adults smoking peaked in the early nineteen fifties

0:50:22.480 --> 0:50:25.960
<v Speaker 2>at about forty five percent of the population. Big Tobacco's

0:50:26.040 --> 0:50:28.440
<v Speaker 2>ploy to buy up doctors had worked for a while,

0:50:28.520 --> 0:50:31.440
<v Speaker 2>but in late nineteen fifty three, the first irrefutable studies

0:50:31.480 --> 0:50:34.640
<v Speaker 2>linking lung cancer to tobacco use were published, to tremendous

0:50:34.680 --> 0:50:38.480
<v Speaker 2>public interest. Major peer reviewed journal studies had tied not

0:50:38.560 --> 0:50:42.720
<v Speaker 2>just cancer, but cardiac disease and serious respiratory illness to smoking.

0:50:43.239 --> 0:50:45.719
<v Speaker 2>The situation was serious enough that the head executives of

0:50:45.719 --> 0:50:48.480
<v Speaker 2>the big five tobacco companies all came together in December

0:50:48.520 --> 0:50:51.080
<v Speaker 2>of nineteen fifty three to figure out how to respond

0:50:51.080 --> 0:50:53.680
<v Speaker 2>to this news. They picked the Plaza Hotel in New

0:50:53.760 --> 0:50:56.000
<v Speaker 2>York City as the place to map out their strategy,

0:50:56.200 --> 0:50:58.360
<v Speaker 2>and it is possible that no other location in the

0:50:58.440 --> 0:51:01.200
<v Speaker 2>United States, including the pentag Gone, has been used to

0:51:01.200 --> 0:51:04.040
<v Speaker 2>make plans that ended with a greater death toll. The

0:51:04.120 --> 0:51:07.480
<v Speaker 2>master of the moment was John W. Hill, president of

0:51:07.480 --> 0:51:10.360
<v Speaker 2>the biggest pr firm in the country. Hill and Knowlton

0:51:10.920 --> 0:51:13.640
<v Speaker 2>now John had been born in Indiana in eighteen ninety.

0:51:13.880 --> 0:51:16.400
<v Speaker 2>He'd spent most of his early career working as a journalist.

0:51:16.480 --> 0:51:18.920
<v Speaker 2>He's a journalist for eighteen years, working his way up

0:51:18.960 --> 0:51:21.600
<v Speaker 2>the ladder to become an editor and a popular columnist.

0:51:22.000 --> 0:51:25.000
<v Speaker 2>In nineteen twenty seven, he blazed a trail that generations

0:51:25.000 --> 0:51:27.880
<v Speaker 2>of soulless hacks would follow, and he decided to start

0:51:27.920 --> 0:51:30.560
<v Speaker 2>a PR firm. By the time nineteen fifty three year

0:51:30.600 --> 0:51:33.160
<v Speaker 2>rolled around, it was the largest PR firm on the planet.

0:51:33.640 --> 0:51:36.360
<v Speaker 2>Hill was worth the money, and in that hotel conference

0:51:36.440 --> 0:51:38.200
<v Speaker 2>room he laid out the bones of what would be

0:51:38.239 --> 0:51:42.200
<v Speaker 2>known as Plan Whitecoat. The basic idea was to create

0:51:42.200 --> 0:51:45.919
<v Speaker 2>an industry sponsored research entity, a think take of scientists

0:51:45.960 --> 0:51:49.719
<v Speaker 2>funded by tobacco money but ostensibly independent. This would allow

0:51:49.760 --> 0:51:52.000
<v Speaker 2>big tobacco to claim they were taking fears of lung

0:51:52.000 --> 0:51:55.640
<v Speaker 2>cancer seriously, while also providing them with disinformation to muddy

0:51:55.680 --> 0:51:59.040
<v Speaker 2>the waters by painting the existing studies is insufficient. I'm

0:51:59.040 --> 0:52:01.560
<v Speaker 2>going to quote, yeah, it's awesome, it's so good.

0:52:02.200 --> 0:52:04.200
<v Speaker 3>No one's ever done it, since no one.

0:52:04.480 --> 0:52:06.600
<v Speaker 2>This is not this is not the thing that's going

0:52:06.640 --> 0:52:08.919
<v Speaker 2>to end all life. On this planet. No, he'll did

0:52:08.960 --> 0:52:11.040
<v Speaker 2>not just build the apocalypse bomb.

0:52:11.560 --> 0:52:14.600
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, Jesus Christ. Yeah. Well they've given us everything

0:52:14.600 --> 0:52:17.040
<v Speaker 3>from Pokemon cars to fucking timate change.

0:52:17.120 --> 0:52:20.080
<v Speaker 2>It's incredible. Cigarettes are amazing je.

0:52:20.160 --> 0:52:23.879
<v Speaker 3>Yes, wow, yeah, yeah, they are something.

0:52:23.920 --> 0:52:27.080
<v Speaker 2>One of the single most important inventions in the history

0:52:27.080 --> 0:52:27.760
<v Speaker 2>of the planet.

0:52:28.000 --> 0:52:31.439
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. God, and people die of starvation. You don't. Here

0:52:31.480 --> 0:52:34.839
<v Speaker 3>we are. We've made a cancer steak, and we've we've

0:52:34.880 --> 0:52:37.200
<v Speaker 3>created new and exciting ways to lie about it.

0:52:37.200 --> 0:52:39.160
<v Speaker 2>It's amazing, it's so cool.

0:52:39.480 --> 0:52:40.400
<v Speaker 3>I'm kind of close him.

0:52:40.680 --> 0:52:43.920
<v Speaker 2>Who could full it? God, what a great product. I'm

0:52:43.960 --> 0:52:46.000
<v Speaker 2>going to quote now from a twenty twelve article in

0:52:46.040 --> 0:52:49.280
<v Speaker 2>the American Journal of Public Health. The industry had supported

0:52:49.280 --> 0:52:52.360
<v Speaker 2>some individual research in recent years, but Hill's proposal offered

0:52:52.360 --> 0:52:54.720
<v Speaker 2>the potential of a research program that would be controlled

0:52:54.719 --> 0:52:57.600
<v Speaker 2>by the industry yet promoted as independent. This was a

0:52:57.640 --> 0:53:01.840
<v Speaker 2>public relations masters stroke. Hill stood that you're giving Yeah.

0:53:02.040 --> 0:53:04.800
<v Speaker 2>Hill understood that simply giving money to scientists through the

0:53:04.880 --> 0:53:07.360
<v Speaker 2>National Institutes of Health or some other entity, for example,

0:53:07.640 --> 0:53:11.400
<v Speaker 2>offered little opportunity to shape the public relations environment. However,

0:53:11.640 --> 0:53:15.080
<v Speaker 2>offering funds directly to university based scientists would enlist their

0:53:15.080 --> 0:53:18.200
<v Speaker 2>support in dependence. Moreover, it would have the added benefit

0:53:18.239 --> 0:53:21.719
<v Speaker 2>of making academic institutions partners with the tobacco industry in

0:53:21.760 --> 0:53:26.800
<v Speaker 2>its moment of crisis. Hill and his clients had no interest. Yeah.

0:53:27.000 --> 0:53:29.080
<v Speaker 2>In answer, Hill and his clients had no interest in

0:53:29.160 --> 0:53:32.560
<v Speaker 2>answering a scientific question. Their goal was to maintain vigorous

0:53:32.560 --> 0:53:35.440
<v Speaker 2>control over the research program to use science in the

0:53:35.480 --> 0:53:38.960
<v Speaker 2>service of public relations. Although the tobacco executives had proposed

0:53:38.960 --> 0:53:42.480
<v Speaker 2>forming a Cigarette Information Committee dedicated to defending smoking against

0:53:42.480 --> 0:53:46.360
<v Speaker 2>the medical findings, Hill argued aggressively for adding research to

0:53:46.360 --> 0:53:49.160
<v Speaker 2>the committee's title and agenda. It is believed he wrote

0:53:49.239 --> 0:53:51.400
<v Speaker 2>that the word research is needed in the name to

0:53:51.400 --> 0:53:54.799
<v Speaker 2>give weight and added credence to the committee's statements. Hill

0:53:54.880 --> 0:53:57.440
<v Speaker 2>understood that his clients should be viewed as embracing science

0:53:57.560 --> 0:54:02.120
<v Speaker 2>rather than dismissing it. Now again, Hill's a journalist, right,

0:54:02.200 --> 0:54:03.640
<v Speaker 2>That's part of how he's able to do this. He

0:54:03.760 --> 0:54:06.880
<v Speaker 2>understands how to communicate, He understands how people read things.

0:54:08.800 --> 0:54:11.120
<v Speaker 2>One of the first things he emphasized to the industry

0:54:11.200 --> 0:54:13.799
<v Speaker 2>leaders was that they had to stop competing with each

0:54:13.800 --> 0:54:16.719
<v Speaker 2>other trying to move cartons by convincing customers that their

0:54:16.800 --> 0:54:19.640
<v Speaker 2>smokes were more soothing or healthier than the others. This

0:54:19.840 --> 0:54:22.680
<v Speaker 2>was bad, right, Arguing like lucky strikes are healthier than

0:54:22.719 --> 0:54:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Marlborough's is bad for the whole industry, so we have

0:54:25.520 --> 0:54:28.399
<v Speaker 2>to stop it. The key to surviving, this Hill told them,

0:54:28.600 --> 0:54:31.719
<v Speaker 2>was collective action, and one that looked like a commitment

0:54:31.719 --> 0:54:35.000
<v Speaker 2>to public welfare while actually doing everything possible to harm

0:54:35.040 --> 0:54:38.640
<v Speaker 2>public welfare. The Tobacco Industry Research Committee was formed in

0:54:38.719 --> 0:54:41.560
<v Speaker 2>nineteen fifty four and announced its existence with full page

0:54:41.600 --> 0:54:45.160
<v Speaker 2>ads and more than four hundred newspapers. This ad, known

0:54:45.160 --> 0:54:48.760
<v Speaker 2>as the Frank Statement, claimed that tobacco companies were deeply

0:54:48.840 --> 0:54:51.840
<v Speaker 2>concerned about the welfare of their customers and would pursue

0:54:51.880 --> 0:54:53.640
<v Speaker 2>any end to get to the bottom of this whole

0:54:53.800 --> 0:54:57.799
<v Speaker 2>tobacco equals cancer thing. Quote. We accept an interest in

0:54:57.840 --> 0:55:01.319
<v Speaker 2>people's health as a basic responsibility paramount to every other

0:55:01.400 --> 0:55:04.279
<v Speaker 2>consideration in our business. We believe the products we make

0:55:04.320 --> 0:55:07.000
<v Speaker 2>are not injurious to health. We always have and always

0:55:07.040 --> 0:55:09.680
<v Speaker 2>will cooperate closely with those whose task it is to

0:55:09.760 --> 0:55:11.160
<v Speaker 2>safeguard the public health.

0:55:12.560 --> 0:55:16.759
<v Speaker 3>That's good, great, yeah, show very honest, very straightforward.

0:55:17.360 --> 0:55:20.640
<v Speaker 2>So despite these high minded claims, the TRC's agenda was

0:55:20.680 --> 0:55:23.480
<v Speaker 2>laid out by Hill before he consulted a single scientist.

0:55:23.840 --> 0:55:27.480
<v Speaker 2>The executive director of the organization, W. T. Hoyt, had

0:55:27.520 --> 0:55:31.040
<v Speaker 2>no scientific background. His previous job had been selling ads

0:55:31.080 --> 0:55:34.560
<v Speaker 2>for the Saturday Evening Post. Within his first few months

0:55:34.560 --> 0:55:37.919
<v Speaker 2>of operation, Hoyt and other executives of the TRC put

0:55:37.920 --> 0:55:40.640
<v Speaker 2>out a statement directly responding to studies that purported to

0:55:40.680 --> 0:55:43.680
<v Speaker 2>show a link between cigarettes and disease. It is an

0:55:43.680 --> 0:55:46.520
<v Speaker 2>obligation of the Tobacco Industry Research Committee at this time

0:55:46.560 --> 0:55:49.440
<v Speaker 2>to remind the public of these essential points. One, there

0:55:49.480 --> 0:55:52.120
<v Speaker 2>is no conclusive scientific proof of a link between smoking

0:55:52.160 --> 0:55:55.680
<v Speaker 2>and cancer. Two, medical research points to many possible causes

0:55:55.680 --> 0:55:58.479
<v Speaker 2>of cancer, and three, but millions of people who derive

0:55:58.560 --> 0:56:01.680
<v Speaker 2>pleasure and satisfaction from SMI can be reassured that every

0:56:01.760 --> 0:56:03.879
<v Speaker 2>scientific means will be used to get oh, the facts

0:56:03.920 --> 0:56:04.960
<v Speaker 2>as soon as possible.

0:56:06.719 --> 0:56:08.360
<v Speaker 3>Great, Yeah, yeah, it's.

0:56:08.239 --> 0:56:10.080
<v Speaker 2>Gotta go well, James, it's gonna go really well.

0:56:10.200 --> 0:56:11.520
<v Speaker 3>Yep, I can see this anying. Well.

0:56:12.080 --> 0:56:12.200
<v Speaker 1>So.

0:56:12.320 --> 0:56:15.880
<v Speaker 2>The first scientific director appointed to the TRC was Clarence

0:56:16.000 --> 0:56:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Cook Little, an extremely prominent biologist and geneticists who had

0:56:19.920 --> 0:56:23.360
<v Speaker 2>become extremely prominent because he was a popular eugenicist.

0:56:23.840 --> 0:56:24.359
<v Speaker 3>That good.

0:56:24.760 --> 0:56:32.680
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's really funny because Cook like a

0:56:32.719 --> 0:56:35.759
<v Speaker 4>little the reason he believes that cigarettes did because he's

0:56:35.760 --> 0:56:38.359
<v Speaker 4>a He truly believes that the people who connect him

0:56:38.400 --> 0:56:41.440
<v Speaker 4>to cancer is wrong because he believes that lung cancer

0:56:41.480 --> 0:56:44.560
<v Speaker 4>is genetic, so it can't be caused by an environmental factor,

0:56:44.600 --> 0:56:47.040
<v Speaker 4>like inhaling cigarettes a year.

0:56:47.440 --> 0:56:49.839
<v Speaker 2>It's got to be. It's gotta be something to do

0:56:49.880 --> 0:56:52.360
<v Speaker 2>with the fact that certain races are more likely to

0:56:52.400 --> 0:56:56.680
<v Speaker 2>get cancer. Oh god, it is one thing I'll have

0:56:56.719 --> 0:56:59.480
<v Speaker 2>to you got to say for a racist, this guy

0:56:59.520 --> 0:57:02.759
<v Speaker 2>probably killed more white people than any other racist. Yeah.

0:57:04.360 --> 0:57:07.000
<v Speaker 2>He does drop a lot of white folks.

0:57:07.120 --> 0:57:09.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, accidentally.

0:57:08.920 --> 0:57:12.560
<v Speaker 2>Based well he drops everyone else too. Yeah, true, maybe

0:57:12.560 --> 0:57:15.120
<v Speaker 2>not maybe unlike him, cigarettes don't discriminate.

0:57:16.560 --> 0:57:20.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Oh, dear god. They become a magnet for the

0:57:20.360 --> 0:57:21.760
<v Speaker 3>shittest things in humanity.

0:57:21.840 --> 0:57:25.200
<v Speaker 2>It is incredible. How many terrible? Yeah, it's it's amazing.

0:57:25.440 --> 0:57:27.480
<v Speaker 3>What's gonna happen next? They're going to like stand with

0:57:27.560 --> 0:57:34.840
<v Speaker 3>the turfs or something. Cigarettes. You just don't like queer people. Yeah,

0:57:35.240 --> 0:57:37.480
<v Speaker 3>I'm tell you. It's probably in the Harry Potter books somewhere.

0:57:38.280 --> 0:57:42.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. In nineteen fifty four, the TRC's budget was around

0:57:42.200 --> 0:57:44.440
<v Speaker 2>a million dollars, nearly all of which went to Hill

0:57:44.480 --> 0:57:47.760
<v Speaker 2>and Knowlton in various ads rather than actual science. But

0:57:47.800 --> 0:57:50.760
<v Speaker 2>by nineteen sixty three the TRC was giving out close

0:57:50.800 --> 0:57:54.360
<v Speaker 2>to a million dollars in grants. These funded research, actual

0:57:54.440 --> 0:57:57.880
<v Speaker 2>scientific research, but they picked the kind of research carefully.

0:57:58.120 --> 0:58:01.400
<v Speaker 2>So we're not going to do research what causes lung cancer,

0:58:01.680 --> 0:58:04.520
<v Speaker 2>but we'll do research into how cancer develops over time

0:58:04.800 --> 0:58:06.760
<v Speaker 2>and how it grows in the body, and ways to

0:58:06.800 --> 0:58:10.400
<v Speaker 2>fight it and stuff, and this is important stuff. So

0:58:10.440 --> 0:58:12.480
<v Speaker 2>they can keep coming out with these studies funded by

0:58:12.520 --> 0:58:15.440
<v Speaker 2>TRC money that are real studies, but none of them

0:58:15.480 --> 0:58:18.280
<v Speaker 2>happen to look into whether or not smoking causes cancer. Right,

0:58:18.600 --> 0:58:21.680
<v Speaker 2>you can look at how genetics or virology impacts cancer rates,

0:58:21.720 --> 0:58:24.560
<v Speaker 2>and those are important things to study. But by picking

0:58:24.600 --> 0:58:28.080
<v Speaker 2>what gets funded specifically, they are very very.

0:58:27.920 --> 0:58:33.560
<v Speaker 3>Purposefully putting better airbags in then no breaks Modelobo car.

0:58:36.400 --> 0:58:39.560
<v Speaker 2>So this strategy worked for decades, distracting the public and

0:58:39.640 --> 0:58:42.440
<v Speaker 2>lawmakers from any actions that might negatively impact the rate

0:58:42.440 --> 0:58:44.920
<v Speaker 2>at which people smoked. Key to the success of this

0:58:45.000 --> 0:58:48.080
<v Speaker 2>program was Hill's understanding of how journalism worked. From that

0:58:48.160 --> 0:58:51.360
<v Speaker 2>journal of public health article. Hill understood that the success

0:58:51.360 --> 0:58:54.680
<v Speaker 2>of any public relations strategy was highly dependent on face

0:58:54.720 --> 0:58:58.320
<v Speaker 2>to face interpersonal relations with important media outlets. Each time

0:58:58.360 --> 0:59:00.960
<v Speaker 2>the TRC issued a press release, the Hill and Nolton

0:59:01.040 --> 0:59:05.480
<v Speaker 2>organization would initiate a personal contact. The firm systematically documented

0:59:05.480 --> 0:59:08.000
<v Speaker 2>the courtship of newspapers and magazines where it could urge

0:59:08.040 --> 0:59:11.320
<v Speaker 2>balance and fairness in the industry. In these intreaties on

0:59:11.360 --> 0:59:15.240
<v Speaker 2>behalf of the industry, the firm staffers repeated several key themes. First,

0:59:15.280 --> 0:59:18.000
<v Speaker 2>they would note that the industry completely understood its important

0:59:18.000 --> 0:59:21.280
<v Speaker 2>public responsibilities. Second, they would affirm that the industry was

0:59:21.320 --> 0:59:24.480
<v Speaker 2>deeply committed to investigating all of the scientific questions relevant

0:59:24.520 --> 0:59:30.440
<v Speaker 2>to resolving the controversy. Third, they urged skepticism regarding statistical studies. Finally,

0:59:30.560 --> 0:59:32.680
<v Speaker 2>they offered members of the media a long list of

0:59:32.720 --> 0:59:36.680
<v Speaker 2>independent skeptics to consult to ensure balance in their presentations.

0:59:37.080 --> 0:59:41.960
<v Speaker 3>Great also responsible for the dozens of direct marketing emails

0:59:42.000 --> 0:59:46.800
<v Speaker 3>I guess every single day. Yeah great, right now I'm

0:59:46.840 --> 0:59:48.160
<v Speaker 3>personally agree for this MATTERFI.

0:59:48.320 --> 0:59:53.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, cigarettes created everything. The primary independent skeptic, of course,

0:59:53.560 --> 0:59:56.640
<v Speaker 2>was the TRC. Is little that's the eugenics guy. Given

0:59:56.680 --> 0:59:58.959
<v Speaker 2>the pinshant of the press for controversy and it's often

0:59:59.120 --> 1:00:02.840
<v Speaker 2>naive notion of allance. These appeals were remarkably successful. Hilln

1:00:02.880 --> 1:00:06.440
<v Speaker 2>Nolton expertly broadcast their arguments, typically not based on substantive

1:00:06.440 --> 1:00:09.080
<v Speaker 2>research of any kind, of a small group of skeptics,

1:00:09.080 --> 1:00:11.680
<v Speaker 2>as if their positions represented a dominant perspective on the

1:00:11.720 --> 1:00:14.600
<v Speaker 2>medical science of the cigarette. In this sense, the public

1:00:14.640 --> 1:00:19.000
<v Speaker 2>relations campaign advantaged two critical pieces of mid century media practice. First,

1:00:19.240 --> 1:00:23.840
<v Speaker 2>journalists favored reporting on controversy. Second, by providing opposing positions

1:00:23.880 --> 1:00:28.680
<v Speaker 2>as if they were equal, they affirmed their commitment to balance. Yeah.

1:00:28.200 --> 1:00:31.560
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, that's right, baby, that's right baby.

1:00:31.800 --> 1:00:36.400
<v Speaker 3>Fuck sake, why piss off? Uh huh, yeah, No, they've

1:00:36.440 --> 1:00:37.480
<v Speaker 3>invented both sides.

1:00:37.960 --> 1:00:40.680
<v Speaker 2>They did invent both sides again. So they gave us

1:00:40.760 --> 1:00:44.040
<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump. That's what they gave us, Donald Trump. They

1:00:44.080 --> 1:00:47.440
<v Speaker 2>gave us climate change denial. They gave us a lot

1:00:47.520 --> 1:00:51.480
<v Speaker 2>of the gun industries, tactics, Barry Weiss, all of that

1:00:51.560 --> 1:00:52.960
<v Speaker 2>ship comes from big tobacco.

1:00:53.360 --> 1:00:54.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, god, they gave us.

1:00:54.640 --> 1:00:57.520
<v Speaker 2>They gave us the fucking Iraq war. All of these,

1:00:57.640 --> 1:00:59.840
<v Speaker 2>all of these strategies are the things that like we're

1:01:00.360 --> 1:01:03.840
<v Speaker 2>like they pioneered all of those strategies, and that's where

1:01:03.880 --> 1:01:08.200
<v Speaker 2>we're going to end for the day. James, Yeah, will, Yeah.

1:01:08.360 --> 1:01:10.440
<v Speaker 3>Let's stop. So I've become enraged.

1:01:11.320 --> 1:01:13.720
<v Speaker 2>We will. We will talk in more detail about the

1:01:13.720 --> 1:01:21.000
<v Speaker 2>tobacco industry later, but yeah, this is this is how they, like,

1:01:21.320 --> 1:01:24.800
<v Speaker 2>there's a bigger story in kind of how they kept

1:01:24.800 --> 1:01:28.160
<v Speaker 2>this up as it became increasingly obvious that cigarettes caused cancer,

1:01:28.240 --> 1:01:30.960
<v Speaker 2>and like how they advertised to children and like the

1:01:31.040 --> 1:01:34.360
<v Speaker 2>nineties and stuff, and Joe Cammell there's a story, and

1:01:34.480 --> 1:01:36.440
<v Speaker 2>like how they tried to destroy the lives of people

1:01:36.440 --> 1:01:40.320
<v Speaker 2>who blew the whistle on them, like former tobacco employees,

1:01:41.600 --> 1:01:43.360
<v Speaker 2>And we'll talk about all of those one day. But

1:01:43.440 --> 1:01:45.880
<v Speaker 2>this is this is the story of how tobacco invented

1:01:45.920 --> 1:01:47.160
<v Speaker 2>everything in the modern world.

1:01:47.800 --> 1:01:49.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Great, I feel really good about all the things

1:01:49.880 --> 1:01:51.120
<v Speaker 3>that we've got from it.

1:01:51.120 --> 1:01:55.720
<v Speaker 2>It's cool that you can tie like funco pops, climate change,

1:01:55.760 --> 1:01:58.360
<v Speaker 2>denial in the Iraq War all to trying to get

1:01:58.400 --> 1:01:59.160
<v Speaker 2>people to smoke.

1:01:59.480 --> 1:02:03.560
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, it's really it's really great and caism and

1:02:03.640 --> 1:02:04.439
<v Speaker 3>that's nothing but good.

1:02:04.520 --> 1:02:09.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, pokemon and medical patents all all have cigarettes to think.

1:02:10.160 --> 1:02:15.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, god, yeah, it's just unfathomable. It's terrible, it's awful. Yeah,

1:02:15.720 --> 1:02:17.880
<v Speaker 3>it's it's the nature of the system we live in.

1:02:18.800 --> 1:02:19.560
<v Speaker 3>Maybe change it.

1:02:19.560 --> 1:02:21.360
<v Speaker 2>It's the nature of the system we live in part

1:02:21.400 --> 1:02:22.360
<v Speaker 2>because of cigarettes.

1:02:22.560 --> 1:02:26.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, yeah, very good. Maybe maybe consider a different system.

1:02:27.400 --> 1:02:30.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, maybe consider a system in which it's not possible

1:02:30.120 --> 1:02:30.280
<v Speaker 2>to do.

1:02:30.840 --> 1:02:33.200
<v Speaker 3>The good thing is Robert that none of these issues

1:02:33.240 --> 1:02:36.560
<v Speaker 3>are tied to vaping, which is fine and totally totally

1:02:36.640 --> 1:02:39.360
<v Speaker 3>normal and good, and therefore you should just get a

1:02:39.440 --> 1:02:40.560
<v Speaker 3>fruit loop vape.

1:02:41.000 --> 1:02:44.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, get get a flavored vape, you know, buy some

1:02:44.840 --> 1:02:48.040
<v Speaker 2>of that. Uh, I don't know what else, what other

1:02:48.080 --> 1:02:50.640
<v Speaker 2>what drugs do kids like to do today? Get some

1:02:50.840 --> 1:02:53.080
<v Speaker 2>Get some of that. Get some of that flavored Fitanel

1:02:53.160 --> 1:02:56.240
<v Speaker 2>tide pods mixture, Finnel in your tide pods together kids. Yeah,

1:02:56.240 --> 1:02:56.680
<v Speaker 2>a good one.

1:02:57.320 --> 1:02:59.880
<v Speaker 3>That's so turing that on taking the talk right now

1:03:00.000 --> 1:03:01.320
<v Speaker 3>from what I understand, Yeah.

1:03:01.240 --> 1:03:04.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, TikTok and everything that doesn't have any further James,

1:03:04.640 --> 1:03:06.120
<v Speaker 2>is there anything you like to plug.

1:03:07.080 --> 1:03:11.720
<v Speaker 3>Apart from tide pods? Yeah, I did think. Yeah, we

1:03:11.760 --> 1:03:14.600
<v Speaker 3>talked about a podcast. I've written a book. It's called

1:03:14.600 --> 1:03:17.720
<v Speaker 3>The Popular Front and the nineteen thirty six Bus owner Olympics.

1:03:17.760 --> 1:03:19.760
<v Speaker 3>You can probably find it at the library. Then you

1:03:19.800 --> 1:03:22.000
<v Speaker 3>won't be helping to create the system which gave us,

1:03:22.040 --> 1:03:27.080
<v Speaker 3>you know, Pokemon cards and everyone having cancer. And yeah,

1:03:27.120 --> 1:03:29.320
<v Speaker 3>you can find me on Twitter. It's just my name, James,

1:03:29.360 --> 1:03:33.880
<v Speaker 3>like bondst Out, like the beer. We that's all. Anarchism

1:03:33.960 --> 1:03:35.760
<v Speaker 3>is the other thing. I always like to plug on podcasts.

1:03:35.800 --> 1:03:38.200
<v Speaker 3>So maybe yeah, Recrepokin.

1:03:37.680 --> 1:03:39.960
<v Speaker 1>And we're doing a it could happen here livestream virtual

1:03:40.000 --> 1:03:41.800
<v Speaker 1>show on October twenty six.

1:03:42.680 --> 1:03:47.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, motherfuckers, yep, So pick up a pack of lucky strikes.

1:03:47.480 --> 1:03:49.800
<v Speaker 2>I want to see all of you beautiful people smoking

1:03:49.840 --> 1:03:53.120
<v Speaker 2>when we do our live show. Just just really burn

1:03:53.160 --> 1:03:55.920
<v Speaker 2>them down. Nothing raises the value of a house faster

1:03:56.040 --> 1:03:58.360
<v Speaker 2>than the smoking cigarette's Yeah.

1:04:02.520 --> 1:04:05.400
<v Speaker 3>Ring, go back to return to tradition by sticking two

1:04:05.400 --> 1:04:07.320
<v Speaker 3>cigarettes up your nose after smoking them that way.

1:04:07.480 --> 1:04:09.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, smoke your cigarettes the traditional way.

1:04:09.800 --> 1:04:10.240
<v Speaker 3>Mm hmm.

1:04:10.400 --> 1:04:13.120
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, yeah.

1:04:13.320 --> 1:04:18.400
<v Speaker 1>By Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1:04:18.760 --> 1:04:22.040
<v Speaker 1>For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

1:04:22.200 --> 1:04:25.400
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1:04:25.520 --> 1:04:28.640
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1:04:28.680 --> 1:04:32.760
<v Speaker 1>Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday

1:04:32.840 --> 1:04:36.480
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1:04:36.680 --> 1:04:38.400
<v Speaker 1>At Behind the Bastards