Speaker 1: Also media.
Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert here, just introducing we've got another rerun.
Speaker 2: This is the first time we've done two weeks in
Speaker 2: a row. Normally we just do one week at the
Speaker 2: end of the year. But all of the other shows
Speaker 2: on our network and most of the other shows that
Speaker 2: I know in podcasting take off two weeks. And Sophie
Speaker 2: was like, hey, Robert, why don't you actually take off
Speaker 2: two weeks instead of cramming during your vacation to write
Speaker 2: another podcast so that we don't fall behind. And I
Speaker 2: was like, you know what, Sophie, that's a pretty good idea.
Speaker 2: So anyway, that's what we're doing. Enjoy this episode on
Speaker 2: how cigarettes invented everything. Should really get that checked out.
Speaker 2: Cut me blowing my nose, but keep the yell, keep
Speaker 2: the It sounded like a wounded elephant. I feel like
Speaker 2: a wounded elephant. The pollen count in Oregon right now
Speaker 2: is unbelievable. I just went outside during the break between
Speaker 2: episode recordings and emptied a magazine from an AR fifteen
Speaker 2: into a tree, but it does not appear to have
Speaker 2: solved the problem.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, you gotta gotta get heavier than that, man,
Speaker 3: You gotta Yeah.
Speaker 2: I should have used the three eight. You know, that's
Speaker 2: why they went.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's why the army is up created.
Speaker 2: Yeah you want to fuck up a tree? Yeah you
Speaker 2: really want you really want to move closer to that
Speaker 2: thirty caliber range.
Speaker 3: Yep, so spoil to you by six point eight tree killer.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's three thirty eight Lappawa baby.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that' fuck up.
Speaker 2: When I was a young man, times like this, right
Speaker 2: around near the end of the year, my friends and
Speaker 2: I would go out into the woods and we would
Speaker 2: shoot down a tree in order to have a bonfire
Speaker 2: around it. And that doesn't really relate to the subject
Speaker 2: of the episode, but we often smoked cigarettes while doing it.
Speaker 3: Interesting, and it's kind of like shooting down a tree,
Speaker 3: isn't it, Because if you're active consumer base, it's a
Speaker 3: bit like shooting shooting down a tree.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You just have to hope that they can grow
Speaker 2: up faster than you can shoot them shoot them, yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean. And it's also what they say about the
Speaker 2: human race, because one thing you got to give it
Speaker 2: to us is we bred slightly faster than cigarettes were
Speaker 2: able to kill us.
Speaker 3: Once again, a win for humanity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a titanic dub So cigarettes did not get to
Speaker 2: have their real moment in the sun until a few
Speaker 2: years after the dissolution of American tobacco, which again the
Speaker 2: Supreme Court knocks it out in nineteen eleven. Probably somewhere
Speaker 2: under ten percent of a merit of smokers and a
Speaker 2: much smaller portion of the US population actually smoked cigarettes.
Speaker 2: So a pretty small fraction of the US adult population
Speaker 2: is smoking still, even even as successful as our old
Speaker 2: buddy Duke wasn't getting people to smoke. But the thing
Speaker 2: that's going to actually start to change this and really
Speaker 2: turn around cigarettes fortunes is the First World War. Now, James,
Speaker 2: you've been a trench.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been in a couple of trenches, so yeah,
Speaker 3: that's no professional reasons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there trenches are not the cleanest places in the world,
Speaker 2: especially if it's raining and their muddy. You wouldn't want
Speaker 2: to have a pipe in a trench necessarily, Like you
Speaker 2: could smoke a pipe in a trench, but stuff's going
Speaker 2: to get in it. That's kind of gross, right, that's
Speaker 2: not ideal. Yeah, And when you know, if you're doing
Speaker 2: trench stuff, you probably don't have time to sit down
Speaker 2: and really smoke a cigar. You know, they take a while.
Speaker 2: Cigarettes are the depends on what rank you're at, doesn't
Speaker 2: it Once you write right, if you're sitting yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you get up to the you know, the
Speaker 3: field grade officers, you find a cigarette.
Speaker 2: They have plenty of time for cigars, and they have
Speaker 2: clean enough areas for cigarette or for pipes. But if
Speaker 2: you're a working man in the trenches, the best way
Speaker 2: you have to smoke in between getting murdered by German
Speaker 2: machine guns is a cigarette. And that's really what causes
Speaker 2: a shitload of people to start adopting cigarettes. That's what
Speaker 2: actually makes it a mainstream thing. Is World War One.
Speaker 3: Now it goes well with death, It.
Speaker 2: Does go well with death, James. Cigarette adoption had crept
Speaker 2: up only gradually prior to this, and it had been
Speaker 2: met by this a really active anti smoking campaign the
Speaker 2: whole time. It's kind of always noting that the first
Speaker 2: twenty years of like the twentieth century, basically from like
Speaker 2: the late eighteen nineties to like nineteen seventeen nineteen eighteen,
Speaker 2: there's a very active anti smoking campaign in the United States,
Speaker 2: and it's powered by a lot of the same voices
Speaker 2: who are also fighting for prohibition. There were even bands
Speaker 2: on the public consumption of tobacco in some states. In
Speaker 2: nineteen ten, a doctor named Charles Peace founded the Non
Speaker 2: Smoker's Protective League, advocating for a public smoking band in
Speaker 2: America's largest city. In nineteen thirteen, The New York Times
Speaker 2: published an op ed opposing the establishment of smoking cars
Speaker 2: in the subway. Now, these people we now know are right,
Speaker 2: you know, like cigarettes bad, public smoking bad. But they're not. Again,
Speaker 2: there's not strong evidence that proves cigarettes cause cancer at
Speaker 2: this point. There's not really good scientific studies at this point.
Speaker 2: These people are just busybodies, right, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Right, they can be right for the wrong reasons. Well,
Speaker 3: what are their arguments that they well don't like it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, let me let me tell you. Chief among the
Speaker 2: voices of small of non smokers is our old friend
Speaker 2: of the pod, John Harvey Kellogg, America's good.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Kellogg's complaint was quote, smoking has become so nearly universal
Speaker 2: among men that non smokers are practically ignored and their
Speaker 2: rights trampled upon. Now that means that, like, by being
Speaker 2: around cigarette smoke, you're having your rights trampled upon. And yes,
Speaker 2: we now know secondhand smoke is seriously bad for you.
Speaker 2: At the time we did it. And also, let's be
Speaker 2: honest here nineteen seventeen, walking around a city that's still
Speaker 2: filled with horseshit and now leaded gasoline fumes from all
Speaker 2: of the cars rolling around and industrial smoke from all
Speaker 2: of the different fucking coal factories and stuff. Cigarettes are
Speaker 2: not your number one health risk.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the end of the thing, number one trampling on
Speaker 3: your right side of seventeen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just not the biggest problem. Look, John Harvey Kellogg,
Speaker 2: Well he don't give him credit. Yeah, do not give
Speaker 2: him credit for being on the right side of history
Speaker 2: with this one. So non smokers also, it was not
Speaker 2: again because there's not greats there are some of these
Speaker 2: people do so ours are ahead of their time and
Speaker 2: are saying like, hey, this stuff is has to be
Speaker 2: bad for you, and we're going to figure out like
Speaker 2: the way in which it's killing people later. A lot
Speaker 2: of them are just angry because they think it's gross,
Speaker 2: And a huge chunk of them are angry because cigarettes
Speaker 2: are popular with women, right because women start smoking. That's
Speaker 2: a big part of the anti smoking campaign. In nineteen
Speaker 2: oh four, New York State passes a law that makes
Speaker 2: it a crime for women to quote, endanger the morals
Speaker 2: of children by smoking in their presence. A woman named
Speaker 2: Jinny Lasher was charged and sentenced to jail for violating it.
Speaker 2: In nineteen oh eight, New York City aldermen passed an
Speaker 2: ordinance restricting public smoking by women from the Washington Post quote.
Speaker 2: The Sullivan Ordinance made it illegal for restaurant and bar
Speaker 2: owners to permit women to smoke in their establishments. The
Speaker 2: stated rationale from Bowery moralist and political chieftain Tim Sullivan
Speaker 2: was that proper ladies were offended by women smoking, and
Speaker 2: it certainly wasn't any kind of attempt by a man
Speaker 2: to control women's behavior. Despite the ordinance's short duration it
Speaker 2: lasted only two weeks, the sentiment underlying it was held
Speaker 2: by others as well. Women smoking was viewed by many
Speaker 2: as taboo, associated with what Amanda Amos and Margaretha Haglund
Speaker 2: have termed lush and libbid moral behavior. So it is
Speaker 2: a good band name, and it's interesting. One of the
Speaker 2: things that cigarettes do is they make it. They are
Speaker 2: a big part of why it starts to become okay
Speaker 2: for men and women to socialize together who are unmarried.
Speaker 2: Right in a lot of ways. So one of the
Speaker 2: things that is common prior to cigarettes becoming mainstream, after
Speaker 2: you have like a big dinner, if you have a
Speaker 2: fancy pody, then after dinner, the men will go to
Speaker 2: smoke cigars and the women will, you know, go clean
Speaker 2: up or something. And increasingly in the early twenties, what starts,
Speaker 2: or in the early nineteenth nineteen hundreds, what starts to
Speaker 2: happen is after dinner, everybody has a cigarette. And women
Speaker 2: didn't smoke cigars, but cigarettes are new, and so it's
Speaker 2: not really that weird to a lot of modern people
Speaker 2: that women would smoke them. And also there's not women's cigarettes,
Speaker 2: so everyone's smoking the same cigarettes, and increasingly they start
Speaker 2: doing it in the same places together, unmarried men and
Speaker 2: women just hanging out and having a smoke and talking.
Speaker 2: This is a big part of this is kind of
Speaker 2: in the background of the of the suffrage movement, but
Speaker 2: cigarettes do play a significant role in the increasing acceptance
Speaker 2: of social equality for women because men and women spend
Speaker 2: time together to smoke. Yeah, it makes not a non factor.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, It's definitely a time period when there's generally
Speaker 3: this change in gender roles, right with women working in
Speaker 3: a first World War and like, well.
Speaker 2: That's yeah, that's another part of it, right, is like
Speaker 2: women are taking on men's jobs, why wouldn't they be
Speaker 2: able to smoke? And you know, it's a it's a
Speaker 2: whole thing. So smokers also started to organize to establish
Speaker 2: more public smoking places. Tobacco dealers would often back and
Speaker 2: fund local efforts to lobby for smoking cars on trains
Speaker 2: or to allow the smoking of cigarettes on the rear
Speaker 2: platform of street cars. Within the military, there were strenuous
Speaker 2: debates as to whether or not tobaccos should be legal
Speaker 2: for soldiers. In nineteen oh seven, the surgeon General of
Speaker 2: the Navy had recommended that sailors under twenty one be
Speaker 2: banned from smoking cigarettes. This was outrageous to the actual
Speaker 2: men of the Navy, and one enlisted man wrote this
Speaker 2: in response, If this cigarette recommendation has made the rule,
Speaker 2: and such a thing as ordered, it's gonna put all
Speaker 2: us young fellows who like them on the beam. It's
Speaker 2: all right to talk about your cigars and your pipes,
Speaker 2: but cigarettes are cigarettes, and when you once get to
Speaker 2: liking the little sticks, there's nothing that can take their place.
Speaker 2: Then don't forget that life on the ocean with none
Speaker 2: of your women, folks or girlfriends around to break the monotony.
Speaker 2: Is a lot different from life ashore. And I tell
Speaker 2: you those dream sticks help you pass away Miniga, dreary
Speaker 2: and homestick hour. Just a bunch of navy boys, no
Speaker 2: women around, sucking down dream sticks.
Speaker 3: Dreamsticks.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Direct quote from Joe Biden's speech about pardoning people with marijuana.
Speaker 2: For dream sticks. In an unrelated note, I saw a
Speaker 2: picture of Joe Biden with a quantum computer the other
Speaker 2: day and it just struck me as the most wrong thing.
Speaker 2: It's like looking at Winston Churchill with a game boy. Know,
Speaker 2: those aren't supposed to be in the same photograph. And
Speaker 2: Joe Biden should never have lived to see a quantum computer.
Speaker 3: It's like seeing a diplodocus for Tamagotchi hang it out
Speaker 3: and yeah, yeah, I expect.
Speaker 2: No, that's not okay, that's not okay. So opposition to
Speaker 2: cigarettes in the military disappeared overnight once the United States
Speaker 2: got into World War One. Much of this had to
Speaker 2: do with black Jack Pershing, the leader of the American
Speaker 2: Expeditionary Force, who, when asked what Americans could do to
Speaker 2: support their soldiers going overseas gave this reply. You asked
Speaker 2: me what we need to win this war. I answered,
Speaker 2: tobacco as much as bullets.
Speaker 3: Oh great, it's so true.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we've spoken about this before, but the universal
Speaker 3: truth of conflict journalism that if you need something and
Speaker 3: you're not sure that someone's going to give it to you,
Speaker 3: you can probably get it by giving someone enough cigarettes.
Speaker 2: I keep packs on me every time I'm anywhere near
Speaker 2: because like it's not always just getting something. Some of
Speaker 2: it is like you meet people and their stand on
Speaker 2: because like I don't know, they're fucking soldiers in a
Speaker 2: war zone whose daily life involves dealing with horrible trauma,
Speaker 2: and they don't know you. And then you like bust
Speaker 2: out some Marboroughs and you sit and smoke for like
Speaker 2: twenty minutes together, and then they just start talking. You know,
Speaker 2: like that's a thing. They're useful, yeah.
Speaker 3: Work, Yeah, they're a great tool for journalism.
Speaker 2: Well, they're also in terms of how they're being used
Speaker 2: that's not unhealthy by the military, because cigarettes spoilers make
Speaker 2: you worse at everything that is important for soldiers, almost everything.
Speaker 2: Right today, US soldiers who smoke score an average of
Speaker 2: thirty five points lower on PT tests. Cigarette smoking harms
Speaker 2: your night vision, like it's bad for your performance. Yes,
Speaker 2: they are bad for your performance in combat. In addition
Speaker 2: to like people get shot smoking cigarettes cherries.
Speaker 3: Right, that happens for sure.
Speaker 2: But one thing they do is they are a stress reliever.
Speaker 2: And we can debate in the long term it's not
Speaker 2: a great coping strategy, but if your daily job is
Speaker 2: to get shot at repeatedly, you don't care about the
Speaker 2: long term. You just went like a moment where things
Speaker 2: feel okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there is not a long term for a lot
Speaker 3: of people in World War One.
Speaker 2: No, no, especially not. And the other thing that they
Speaker 2: do is, as we just talked about, people bond while smoking.
Speaker 2: It's a part of why men and women. It's a
Speaker 2: way in which men and women start to bond socially
Speaker 2: in a way they had not in a long time
Speaker 2: in Western society. And soldiers in the trenches bond sharing smokes. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it is a thing that you do with each other
Speaker 2: and you can't Number one, this is a thing I
Speaker 2: don't think the tobacco industry could have anticipated because it's
Speaker 2: just a very human thing. And it's also you can't
Speaker 2: fight this like there's nothing to do about it. It's
Speaker 2: just a thing that people have adopted for themselves in
Speaker 2: a difficult time. And so this is a this is
Speaker 2: a problem for the anti smoking people. Obviously smoking again
Speaker 2: very bad for everything else that makes you be a soldier,
Speaker 2: But soldiers are not thinking about that in the times
Speaker 2: when they're smoking them, and in a lot of military
Speaker 2: planners cases like they're also it's hard to argue even
Speaker 2: though you've got people who are in the medical profession
Speaker 2: for the military being like these probably aren't good for people.
Speaker 2: It's hard to argue that like a guy who you're
Speaker 2: asking to run at a machine gun nest doesn't deserve
Speaker 2: to have like a cigarette. Yeah. Yes, And you know,
Speaker 2: if you know America, you know that love for our
Speaker 2: military is basically the not so secret control level lever
Speaker 2: for the American mind. So cigarettes had been controversial prior
Speaker 2: to World War One, but once we start sending men
Speaker 2: in the field and pershings like we need cigarettes. Organizations
Speaker 2: that had previously lobbied nationwide for smoking bands like the
Speaker 2: YMCA prior to World War One. The YMCA is a
Speaker 2: massive part of trying to ban public smoking as soon
Speaker 2: as the war starts they start shipping palettes of cigarettes
Speaker 2: to the battlefields.
Speaker 3: It's great entry for so long. You can just put
Speaker 3: the support of the troops stank on anything and people
Speaker 3: will love it.
Speaker 1: Here.
Speaker 2: It's it's interesting. In the cigarette century, Alan Brandt writes,
Speaker 2: volunteers organized smoke funds to collect donations to assure that
Speaker 2: the troops had adequate supplies of cigarettes. The Sun Fund
Speaker 2: A massed one hundred and thirty seven million cigarettes in
Speaker 2: a two month period. Tobacco may not be a necessity
Speaker 2: of life in the ordinary sense of the term, explained
Speaker 2: The New York Times, but it certainly lightens the inevitable
Speaker 2: hardships of war as nothing else can do. The National
Speaker 2: Cigarette Service Committee collected the names of soldiers without families
Speaker 2: to make sure they received cigarettes. Volunteers prepared packages for
Speaker 2: shipment to the troops under the auspices of groups such
Speaker 2: as the Army Girls Transport Tobacco Fund. That's sweet, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, amazing. I'm sure these people were also like dying
Speaker 3: of trench foot and would have really appreciated like a
Speaker 3: new pair of socks.
Speaker 2: Yes, socks probably also would have gone over well yeah coat,
Speaker 2: I mean, I assume the military was already attempting to
Speaker 2: provide those things, Like, it is new that you would
Speaker 2: provide cigarettes as the military.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, in the early days of the war, the US
Speaker 2: war effort, I should say, the fact that most aid
Speaker 2: organizations in Europe provided cigarettes to soldiers for a fee,
Speaker 2: often substantial, regularly made the news back home. Soldiers are like,
Speaker 2: we're paying as much for a cigarette at the front
Speaker 2: as we have to pay back at home. Like, that's
Speaker 2: kind of fucked up.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: Donated cigarettes were only able to solve a small portion
Speaker 2: of this problem. One hundred and thirty nine million cigarettes
Speaker 2: is not a lot. If you know anything about cigarettes,
Speaker 2: that's not very many. Sounds like a lot. It is not.
Speaker 2: A fucking army in the field will smoke through one
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty nine million cigarettes quicker than they'll go
Speaker 2: through that many bullets.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is true.
Speaker 2: Donated cigarettes only, yeh, solved a small number of the problems.
Speaker 2: So the War Department had to make the decision to
Speaker 2: issue tobacco rations to soldiers starting in May of nineteen eighteen.
Speaker 2: The New York Times wrote of the decision, quote, a
Speaker 2: wave of joy swept through the American Army.
Speaker 3: Great and them have it.
Speaker 2: War fever means a temporary end to the anti smoking movement.
Speaker 2: Many men who had hated cigarettes prior to the war
Speaker 2: had become addicts while overseas, right they you know, they're
Speaker 2: big hygiene guys before and then they get shot at
Speaker 2: and they have a smoke in the fucking trench with
Speaker 2: their buddy, and then you know, for the rest of
Speaker 2: their lives they think kindly of cigarettes. And also the
Speaker 2: fact that the cigarette is now associated with the hard
Speaker 2: bitten trench fighter means that you can't attack the moral
Speaker 2: character of smokers the anti smoking movement. They're only smoked
Speaker 2: by criminals and not white people, right, and now they're
Speaker 2: like they're part of the icon of the heroic soldier. Right.
Speaker 2: So in nineteen hundred, again, barely five percent of the
Speaker 2: country smoked, or like nineteen oh four something like that.
Speaker 2: By nineteen forty and again sorry, in like the start
Speaker 2: of the nineteen hundreds, about five percent of the country
Speaker 2: who smokes tobacco smokes. Right. By nineteen forty, forty percent
Speaker 2: of the United States adult population smokes on a daily
Speaker 2: BASEI oh, yeah, it is a huge increase.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is crazy.
Speaker 2: Average per consumer consumption escalated to in nineteen hundred, Americans
Speaker 2: consumed about fifty four cigarettes per person per year. Right,
Speaker 2: that's the average for the whole population. In nineteen sixty three,
Speaker 2: Americans consume forty three hundred cigarettes per Jesus Christ. Was
Speaker 2: not expecting that. That is so many cigarettes.
Speaker 3: Forty three hundred per Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2: That's quite a few cigarettes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you're really opting the intake they're going to get. True.
Speaker 3: Those Pokemon car collections now, oh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, a lot of kids are getting a
Speaker 2: lot of baseball cards. Yep. You know, those numbers are
Speaker 2: drive driven up by all of this. The eleven year
Speaker 2: old smoking twelve thousand cigarettes.
Speaker 3: Smoking four cigarettes at once, just burning through an entire
Speaker 3: carton in a day. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So this new wave of smokers brought with it changes
Speaker 2: in American smoking habits, largely driven by R. J. Reynolds,
Speaker 2: president of the Reynolds Tobacco Company. Richard Joshua Reynolds had
Speaker 2: been born on July twentieth, eighteen fifty, in Patrick County, Virginia.
Speaker 2: His father was a tobacco farmer, and as a young man,
Speaker 2: Reynolds worked for his dad's plantation, which absolutely included a
Speaker 2: fuckload of enslaved people. R J was just fifteen when
Speaker 2: the Civil War ended, bringing with it the first tiny
Speaker 2: surge and cigarette usage. He quickly fell in love with
Speaker 2: the things, and he turned his father's company into an
Speaker 2: industry leading producer. And R. J. Reynolds is different from
Speaker 2: Duke in that Duke, when he smokes, smokes cigars right.
Speaker 2: He wants to sell cigarettes. He thinks they're a good business.
Speaker 2: He doesn't understand them, right. He understands how to get
Speaker 2: people to want to buy something. He's a good marketer.
Speaker 2: He doesn't really get what people like in a cigarette.
Speaker 2: There is nothing that R. J. Reynolds loves more than cigarettes.
Speaker 2: This man. You have never loved a human being in
Speaker 2: your life the way this man loves the concept of
Speaker 2: a cigarette. He is such a cigarette lover that he
Speaker 2: attempts to avoid getting into Duke's tobacco trust. Right. He
Speaker 2: has his own way. He wants to do things. He
Speaker 2: doesn't want to get involved in this trust. He wants
Speaker 2: to sell his cigarettes the way he wants to. He
Speaker 2: actually gets forced by Duke into the trust because Duke
Speaker 2: uses shady methods to buy two thirds of reynolds tobacco
Speaker 2: stock to force the company into American tobacco, and despite this, R. J.
Speaker 2: Reynolds refuses to work with Duke, and he even secretly
Speaker 2: helps the US government build an anti trust case against
Speaker 2: American Tobacco. When the Supreme Court broke the trust, Reynolds
Speaker 2: had one goal to fuck over Buck Duke and his company.
Speaker 2: In nineteen thirteen, he created a new cigarette which featured
Speaker 2: a mix of American and Turkish tobacco to create a
Speaker 2: blended cigarette. He called this new cigarette the Camel.
Speaker 3: Oh, there is camel cigarettes. Why did he choose camel
Speaker 3: because it's Turkish tobacco. I see, you know, Turkey, camels,
Speaker 3: two things that are famous, constantly associated with each other.
Speaker 3: Just imagine how much better he just called it the
Speaker 3: Turkey the Turkey, right, yeah, yes, His angry Turkish nationalists
Speaker 3: love love the fact that those two things are sort of.
Speaker 2: Say he should have called it the Greek and then
Speaker 2: had just a drawing of the Anatolian Peninsula on it.
Speaker 2: They'd be banned there to this day.
Speaker 3: There would have been more wars in twentieth century Europe.
Speaker 2: I'm going to quote now from the cigarette century. To
Speaker 2: help distinguish it from its competition, Reynolds offered no promotions.
Speaker 2: Smokers realized that the value was in the cigarettes, and
Speaker 2: do not expect promotions or coupons, he explained. Against Duke's
Speaker 2: earlier advertising devoted to these now traditional promotional devices, Reynolds
Speaker 2: went modern. Reynolds committed unprecedented advertising money to promote this
Speaker 2: single product, creating a national campaign to make the camel
Speaker 2: cigarette a true national brand. In nineteen fourteen, newspapers throughout
Speaker 2: the country ran ads several days in succession that announced simply,
Speaker 2: the camels are coming. They were followed by a second
Speaker 2: wave of ads proclaiming tomorrow there will be more in
Speaker 2: this town than all of Asia and Africa combined. Creating
Speaker 2: such expectations and their fulfillment would become a central technique
Speaker 2: of modern consumer advertising. The third ad portraying the camel
Speaker 2: cigarette package read, camel cigarettes are here this advertising campaign
Speaker 2: and here The term campaign appropriately reflects the strategic technique
Speaker 2: met with unprecedented success. We look at that yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: smart man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it is like iconic brand, okay, cigarettes, Like
Speaker 3: I know, there are many brands that seem to like
Speaker 3: be as iconic as cigarette brands, and its global and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is the start of that part of it, right,
Speaker 2: because cigarettes have started to go viral in this but
Speaker 2: not necessarily on a brand basis. Right, you do have
Speaker 2: kind of some of these early brands, but they all,
Speaker 2: like every tobacco company has a bunch of different and
Speaker 2: they sell different ones in different regions. Reynolds is the
Speaker 2: first guy to be like, no, not only do I
Speaker 2: want my company to be the biggest, I want this
Speaker 2: one specific kind of cigarette to be everywhere. So when
Speaker 2: World War One ended, Campbell accounted for more than thirty
Speaker 2: percent of the US cigarette market. Campbell's came into vogue
Speaker 2: just as a new generation of female smokers came onto
Speaker 2: the scene. These women had traditionally taken male job had
Speaker 2: taken traditionally male jobs for men who'd left to fight,
Speaker 2: and after helping to save the US economy, they didn't
Speaker 2: take well to the argument that them enjoying a smoke
Speaker 2: with some sort of sin against femininity from the Washington Post.
Speaker 2: Cigarette advertising companies, which at the time primarily employed Mabel
Speaker 2: advertising executives, quickly co opted the ideas of independence that
Speaker 2: women began to assert at the polls and in the workplace.
Speaker 2: They targeted women, conveying the notions that women who smoked
Speaker 2: were independent, attractive, and even athletic. Lucky Strikes nineteen twenty
Speaker 2: five marketing pitch to women told them to reach for
Speaker 2: a lucky instead of a suite, the message smoke and
Speaker 2: you'll be thin.
Speaker 3: Oh great, there is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty fun.
Speaker 3: Yeah how long that would take?
Speaker 2: And this is number one. One thing that starts to
Speaker 2: happen in this is a whole new generation of extremely
Speaker 2: skinny female models starts to become popular because of this
Speaker 2: Lucky Strike ad campaign they helped to create, like that
Speaker 2: that whole great thing, that whole trend.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, body image.
Speaker 2: Now this there's a backlash to this, and there's kind
Speaker 2: of a war between cigarettes and the candy industry, and
Speaker 2: it's it's very funny that one of the cigarettes that
Speaker 2: will come in the market at this time, I think
Speaker 2: it might be Marlboroughs. Their advertising campaign is to like
Speaker 2: push back at camel by being like, no, cigarettes and
Speaker 2: candy are both good for you. You should have your
Speaker 2: cigarette and your chocolate. They're a healthy treat. But no,
Speaker 2: the candy industry has to be like, the fuck are
Speaker 2: you saying about people not eating candy? Come on, we're
Speaker 2: not trying to shit on cigarettes.
Speaker 3: Here, they're just too nice, you won't care. And just
Speaker 3: when they start making candy cigarettes and reading, well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is that. And in this period. One of
Speaker 2: the interesting things about candy cigarettes when they first get made,
Speaker 2: they're all made with the brands of real cigarettes. So
Speaker 2: there'll be cammebl's now not legally they're all illegal. They're
Speaker 2: all candy companies using a brand illegally. The cigarette industry
Speaker 2: makes a concerted decision to never pursue charges over it,
Speaker 2: to never go after them, because they're like, well, if
Speaker 2: kids get used to picking up a pack of camels,
Speaker 2: that's a win for us. Yeah, Like, there's no downside
Speaker 2: to us letting them do this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a win for everyone. Great.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, one thing that does happen in the post
Speaker 2: war period is that female smokers are an easier target
Speaker 2: for anti smoking advocates than soldiers who are you know,
Speaker 2: heroic and stuff. When the Eighteenth Amendment gets past banning
Speaker 2: the sale of alcohol, moral crusaders like evangelist Billy Sunday
Speaker 2: turn their attention to tobacco, saying in one speech, prohibition
Speaker 2: is one now for tobacco. The Women's Christian Temperance Union
Speaker 2: issued a pamphlet titled Smoking Next. The first success in
Speaker 2: this wave of the anti smoking movement came in Utah,
Speaker 2: which banned the sale, giving away, or other exchange of cigarettes.
Speaker 2: The bill's advocates included the WCTU and and the Mormon Church,
Speaker 2: both of which emphasized the moral risks of letting women
Speaker 2: be seen smoking. Senator Edward Southwick, who wrote the bill,
Speaker 2: quoted US Surgeon General Hugh Cumming, which was his real name,
Speaker 2: as saying, if American women generally contract the habit as
Speaker 2: reports now indicate they are doing, the entire American nation
Speaker 2: will suffer. The physical tone of the whole nation will
Speaker 2: be lowered. This is one of the most evil influences
Speaker 2: in American life today. The habit harms a woman more
Speaker 2: than it does a man. Great, thanks you, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: real smart guy, real comer. Hugh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are the names he could have been cursed
Speaker 3: with which his first name could have been worse.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know what will make you come, James,
Speaker 2: Please lend me the sponsors of our podcasts, not their products,
Speaker 2: which are a sexual but the actual people who run
Speaker 2: an own stock in the companies. Any time you ask for.
Speaker 3: It, that's that's a promise. Yeah, I don't put that
Speaker 3: in the old context.
Speaker 2: But ah, we're back. We're talking about come. You know,
Speaker 2: every time I talk about come on this show, somebody
Speaker 2: gets up in the subreddit and they're like, I wish
Speaker 2: they wouldn't make juvenile jokes about come. It's not very funny.
Speaker 3: It's exceptionally funny to make you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I am never going to stop making jokes
Speaker 2: about come, and I'm never going to stop telling people
Speaker 2: that when Mitch McConnell comes, all that exits his penis
Speaker 2: is a mix of dry scabs and spider legs.
Speaker 3: That that well, no juvenile, is still funny.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 3: It's funny and true, exceptionally funny. Yeah, it's true, and
Speaker 3: he can sew us over it, will take him to court.
Speaker 3: Shows show us the evidence, Mitch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, show us the evidence, Mitch, show us the evidence
Speaker 2: that when you come, the dry scabs exiting year urethra
Speaker 2: don't make a sound exactly like crabs scuttling on a
Speaker 2: soap stone bed. Prove it to me. Prove it to me, Mitch.
Speaker 3: I now physically and will.
Speaker 2: Would you like a cigarette?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think I've been traumatized on a level. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'd like to shorten my life.
Speaker 2: Yes, well, why don't you reach for a lucky instead
Speaker 2: of a sweet.
Speaker 3: That will help me stay maintain my girl physique.
Speaker 2: So as we've just come back, the Surgeon General has
Speaker 2: been like, this is going to lower the moral tone
Speaker 2: of women. And again, I just so that I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 2: Cigarettes are bad. Don't smoke them. These people are technically
Speaker 2: in the right, but they're in the right for the
Speaker 2: wrong reasons usually, so fuck them. I'm going to quote
Speaker 2: again from Alan Brandt here, another supporter of the legislation,
Speaker 2: noted that the fingers of our girls are being varnished
Speaker 2: with the stains of those harmful little instruments of destruction,
Speaker 2: just as earlier opponents of the cigarette had done. Senator
Speaker 2: Southwook argued that the use of the cigarette violated the
Speaker 2: liberties of non smokers, which is fair, offended moral sensibilities
Speaker 2: which is unfair, and polluted public space, which is we'll
Speaker 2: call that one mixed. We cannot bring our wives and
Speaker 2: daughters to the city, he wrote, and cannot come along
Speaker 2: without encountering tobacco smoke everywhere. Is it that saturates our
Speaker 2: clothing and nauseates us personal liberty. Ours is as inviolate
Speaker 2: or as or should be as theirs.
Speaker 3: Amazing. Yeah, when industry is ripping children's arms off their body.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, No, people are just burning pure petroleum jelly
Speaker 2: in the back of a fucking model ty Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just pouring some lead into the reserve lead tank.
Speaker 2: Yeah again, fucking nineteen twenty two. Your worst encounter is
Speaker 2: not going to be with tobacco smoke in the streets of society.
Speaker 3: The coal burning colonialism factory isn't a problem. It's women
Speaker 3: smoking that we need to worry about.
Speaker 2: Now. By nineteen twenty two, sixteen states had banned a
Speaker 2: restrict the cigarette sales and promotion, but none of these
Speaker 2: restrictions lasted long. The disaster that was prohibition and the
Speaker 2: growing number of tobacco addicts made the anti smoking cause untenable.
Speaker 2: A chief issue with the fight to restrict smoking was
Speaker 2: the fact that it rested mostly on moral panic grounds.
Speaker 2: Right again, If all of these people are saying smoking
Speaker 2: is horrible for your health, and I'm sure we shouldn't
Speaker 2: be doing it, that's one thing. But a lot of
Speaker 2: them are being like, well, women shouldn't be smoking. It's
Speaker 2: bad for kins to see it it's going to stain
Speaker 2: in their hands. They don't have at this point, they
Speaker 2: don't have widely agreed upon medical evidence that smoking is
Speaker 2: bad for you, And in fact, a lot of doctors
Speaker 2: will argue that smoking is if not healthy, then not
Speaker 2: a serious harm. It was not as common in this
Speaker 2: period for you have doctors be like, smoking clears your lungs,
Speaker 2: But most of them tended to be like, well, it's
Speaker 2: not that bad for you, right, you know, It's like
Speaker 2: it's like it is like eating candy, right, that's what
Speaker 2: they It's not like eating candy. Please. I'm not saying
Speaker 2: that someone's gonna get really angry at me. I'm just saying,
Speaker 2: if you're a doctor in the twenties, odds are rather
Speaker 2: than saying smoking is bad for you, saying like, well,
Speaker 2: it's probably okay to have the occasional cigarette as part
Speaker 2: of a balanced diet or whatever, you know. Right, And again,
Speaker 2: doctors are heavily debating as the thirties dawn whether or
Speaker 2: not smoking causes cancer. There were studies by this point
Speaker 2: that showed a correlation between self reported smoking habits and
Speaker 2: lung cancer, and by the nineteen twenties, rates of lung
Speaker 2: cancer had started to soar. Given all of this, it
Speaker 2: might seem easy to prove a link between cigarettes and
Speaker 2: lung cancer, but it's not. All you've got in the
Speaker 2: twenties is that there's a correlation between the two. But
Speaker 2: obviously cigarettes aren't the only thing that's been introduced to
Speaker 2: modern life in the early part of the twentieth century,
Speaker 2: Right there's cars now, Suddenly people are getting a whole
Speaker 2: bunch of different medications that didn't used to exist. All
Speaker 2: sorts of shit is around that just wasn't before. So
Speaker 2: how do you know, how do you know think about this?
Speaker 2: How can you prove if you're just a dude in
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty fucking two, that the thing causing lung cancer
Speaker 2: in your friends is the cigarette and not the car
Speaker 2: or the fucking fluorescent light bulbs, right, Like, you don't know,
Speaker 2: there's not evidence at this point, you know, Yeah, it is.
Speaker 3: Part of this industrial my identity again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot has changed really quickly, and there's actually
Speaker 2: there's some surprisingly logical reasons to question the early science.
Speaker 2: One doctor and critic over fears of cigarette use. One
Speaker 2: of the guys who's arguing against the people saying that
Speaker 2: lung cancer and smoking are correlated. One of the things
Speaker 2: he says is that, like, well, when we get lung
Speaker 2: cancer patients, they have a lung and one they have
Speaker 2: a tumor and one lung or the other. Very few
Speaker 2: of them have tumors in both lungs. But when you smoke,
Speaker 2: the smoke is drawn into both lungs equally. So if
Speaker 2: smoking is causing lung cancer, why wouldn't it be causing
Speaker 2: it in both lungs at the same time. Obviously we
Speaker 2: know that's just the way cancer works. Right, But again,
Speaker 2: based on the knowledge at the time, that's not a
Speaker 2: bad point to make. Right, he's wrong, but you can
Speaker 2: see how a person who is not like in the
Speaker 2: pocket of big tobacco could make that stake. Yeah, his
Speaker 2: reasoning is not inherently unsound. Right, he's wrong, but not
Speaker 2: because he's like again, later all the scientists on the
Speaker 2: other side of this will be doing something fundamentally dishonest.
Speaker 2: These are just people trying to understand the human body
Speaker 2: in a period in which we don't have that much
Speaker 2: information about it. Other scientists would argue that the rise
Speaker 2: in lung cancer was attributed to the fact that life
Speaker 2: expectancy had risen a lot in the first quarter of
Speaker 2: the twentieth century, people were getting more weird cancers, they argued,
Speaker 2: because people were living longer. Maybe lung cancer has always
Speaker 2: been normal once you hit a certain age, and we
Speaker 2: just didn't have that many people reaching it. You know, again,
Speaker 2: these are not inherently illogical arguments. Now. There were, however,
Speaker 2: doctors early on who were who figured out what was happening,
Speaker 2: who knew and who put together that there was a
Speaker 2: link between smoking and lung cancer, But it took data
Speaker 2: a long time to catch up with that. For one thing,
Speaker 2: epidemiology is in its infancy in this period of time,
Speaker 2: the first small batch studies, and by the late twenties,
Speaker 2: we have studies that show a correlation between smoking and
Speaker 2: lung cancer, but there's no control group so all they
Speaker 2: show it, So there's no group of people who don't
Speaker 2: smoke to see what their lung cancer rates are, because
Speaker 2: that's not a normal part of medical science. Yet they're
Speaker 2: starting to do that. They're figuring out like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: you should have fucking control groups in your medical studies,
Speaker 2: but it's not the thing that you just do. Derigor
Speaker 2: At this point in time, it becomes that partly as
Speaker 2: a result of this research, and in fact, there's a
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty eight article in the New England Journal of
Speaker 2: Medicine in which that points out like it shows a
Speaker 2: link between smoking and lung cancer, but it also points
Speaker 2: out that their study and other similar studies are of
Speaker 2: little value without similar studies on individuals without cancer, without
Speaker 2: control groups. Right, So part of why that becomes more
Speaker 2: common in this period is scientists trying to figure out
Speaker 2: if there's a link between smoking and lung cancer. The
Speaker 2: scientists to write that nineteen twenty eight study, Herbert Lombard and
Speaker 2: paroled during carried out their own small two hundred person
Speaker 2: study with a control group, and this is the first
Speaker 2: good quality study we have that shows lung cancer. Is
Speaker 2: it shows a bunch of things? Number one, I shouldn't
Speaker 2: say shows. It suggests a bunch of things. Number one,
Speaker 2: It suggests that lung cancer is not a contagious disease.
Speaker 2: Which how would you have known that, you know, without psyche,
Speaker 2: you don't know that people aren't giving it to each other, Right,
Speaker 2: that it's not some weird thing that people got when
Speaker 2: they started walking in the Amazon or whatever. Right, how
Speaker 2: would you know they know they find they or at
Speaker 2: least the data suggests that it's also there's not a
Speaker 2: correlation between lung cancer and low quality housing, which was
Speaker 2: another thing people didn't know. It's something about the way
Speaker 2: we insulate our homes, you know. They also find out
Speaker 2: that it's not associated with constipation, which was a thing
Speaker 2: that some doc And again we can laugh about that,
Speaker 2: but how would you know if you didn't do the study. Yeah.
Speaker 2: One of the primary, like damning thing the study finds
Speaker 2: is that self reported heavy smokers are twenty seven percent
Speaker 2: likely to get lung cancer. This is the first scientifically
Speaker 2: solid evidence linking cigarettes to lung cancer. Now, two hundred
Speaker 2: person study with a two hundred person control group. That's
Speaker 2: not definitive, right, That's enough to justify further research. Sure,
Speaker 2: but that's not a huge study. The nineteen thirties are
Speaker 2: what we're going to see the first attempts on a
Speaker 2: large scale to document the relationship between cigarettes and cancer.
Speaker 2: The impetus to this, the impetus for this research actually
Speaker 2: comes from one of the few industries that can rifle
Speaker 2: big tobacco for sheer evil, the insurance industry. They are
Speaker 2: the people who are going to break them because they
Speaker 2: see this early research and they're like, wait a second,
Speaker 2: we're paying a shitload of money out on all these
Speaker 2: fuckers dieing a lung cancer. If cigarettes cause it, we
Speaker 2: need to be charging people more if they smoke, right, Like,
Speaker 2: they're doing it for evil reasons, but it is important
Speaker 2: research cos god' zillar exactly. So one of the chief
Speaker 2: drivers of this is a guy named Frederick Hoffman, who
Speaker 2: is a statician at Prudential, and Hoffman notices in nineteen
Speaker 2: thirty one that a lot of fucking life insurance policies
Speaker 2: are being filled for dead lung cancer patients. If smoking
Speaker 2: was the cause, then again you're going to need to
Speaker 2: restructure the way premiums work. A lot of money is
Speaker 2: at stake, which is obviously what interests Prudential. They don't
Speaker 2: care about the cost of human life. So the thing
Speaker 2: that Hoffman notices is that in nineteen fifteen, the lung
Speaker 2: cancer rate stands at about point seven people per thousand people. Right,
Speaker 2: about point seven people per every thousand in the population
Speaker 2: are likely to get lung cancer. By nineteen twenty, it's
Speaker 2: risen to one point one per thousand. It's one point
Speaker 2: six per thousand by nineteen twenty four, and one point
Speaker 2: nine per thousand by nineteen twenty eight. That means in
Speaker 2: thirteen years the rate of lung cancer has nearly tripled.
Speaker 2: Now Hoffman is not bound by the ethical constraints of
Speaker 2: a doctor, right, he doesn't have to wait until he
Speaker 2: has really good data to be like smoking causes lung cancer.
Speaker 2: He sees this, he puts two and two together, and
Speaker 2: he becomes the first prominent pig figure to publish a
Speaker 2: claim that tobacco use is associated with a heightened rate
Speaker 2: of cancer and early death. And he's doing it again
Speaker 2: to warn insurance companies. A new wave of studies follows,
Speaker 2: and as the nineteen thirties gives away to the forties,
Speaker 2: the tobacco industry keeps a worried, watchful eye on this
Speaker 2: emerging science. They also start exploding their advertising budgets in
Speaker 2: order to kind of make up for the increasing talk
Speaker 2: in the background about maybe cigarettes aren't so great too
Speaker 2: for us. In nineteen eleven, prior to the bust of
Speaker 2: the American Tobacco Trust, the entire cigarette industry profited about
Speaker 2: thirteen million dollars a year. By nineteen eighteen, the big
Speaker 2: five tobacco companies were spending more than thirteen million dollars
Speaker 2: every year just in ads. In doing so, they'd helped
Speaker 2: create the very language of American culture. And I'm going
Speaker 2: to quote from a write up in the Journal of
Speaker 2: Marketing Theory and Practice by Richard Pole. Cigarette sellers were
Speaker 2: among the most enthusiastic pioneers in the use of network
Speaker 2: broadcasting for coast to coast advertising. Nineteen thirty American Tobacco,
Speaker 2: Brown and Williamson, P. Lrillard and R. J. Reynolds were
Speaker 2: all buying to network radio time. There has been no
Speaker 2: greater enthusiasts for radio broadcast advertising the George W. Hill
Speaker 2: of the ATC, whose business for the first five months
Speaker 2: of nineteen thirty s are pasted all records. The company
Speaker 2: sponsors the Lucky Strike Dance Orchestra in three hour broadcasts
Speaker 2: each week. Lucky Strike sponsored many radio comedies and musical shows,
Speaker 2: such as Jack Benny and the Ka Kaser College of
Speaker 2: Music Musical Knowledge, and the best known and longest running
Speaker 2: popular musical shows, Lucky Strike's Hit Parade. This show started
Speaker 2: in nineteen twenty eight and ran into the nineteen fifties
Speaker 2: on television. It featured teen idol Frank Sinatra when he
Speaker 2: was launching his career. So popular was this show in
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty eight that a sweepstakes promotion offering free cartons
Speaker 2: of Luckies for the names of the three most popular
Speaker 2: tunes drew nearly seven million entries per week. The Lucky
Speaker 2: Strike Hit Parade was the first show to rank popular
Speaker 2: music releases in an ongoing basis. This is where we
Speaker 2: get the top forty. The entire structure of them musical
Speaker 2: industry comes out of Lucky Strikes.
Speaker 3: Hit The Yeah, so they gave us all those crappy
Speaker 3: Christmas number one singles, And it seems like podcasts.
Speaker 2: And podcasts we all owe a debt to Lucky Strike
Speaker 2: every time.
Speaker 3: You read just saying lucky well in more ways than one,
Speaker 3: I see listening.
Speaker 2: Let's let's all give the good folks at Lucky Strike
Speaker 2: a solid go ahead and pick out a pack right
Speaker 2: now that you don't have to smoke, and give it
Speaker 2: to a kid you know they love to smoke. Sophie,
Speaker 2: what I'm done with my script. I'm throwing the ads now.
Speaker 2: I'm throwing the ads like the good men at R. J.
Speaker 2: Reynolds and Laura Lard and the other greats of the
Speaker 2: tobacco industry taught me to Sophie, I'm I'm I'm honoring
Speaker 2: our ancestors. We're back.
Speaker 3: So we had a cigarette and we're ready to go.
Speaker 2: Cigarettes have now just invented the modern music industry.
Speaker 3: So Lunatic's taken over the asylum house.
Speaker 2: The lunatics had taken over.
Speaker 3: A couple of lucky strikes. They felt better and they
Speaker 3: said a sign them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that is a lucky strike, if you ask me.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 2: The need to capture smokers young, because market research had
Speaker 2: shown that people tended to be brand loyal, also helped
Speaker 2: to create the modern conception of ad demographics. Right, advertisers
Speaker 2: start learning how to differentiate and split over. You know,
Speaker 2: the idea that like the eighteen to thirty five males
Speaker 2: is like the most valuable that comes out here, right,
Speaker 2: And it's because like those are, that's when you got
Speaker 2: to get them fucker smoking right earlier possible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's ready to keep.
Speaker 2: Ideally, I'll like eleven or twelve. They advertise a lot
Speaker 2: in colleges, and they also it leads tobacco companies to
Speaker 2: steer more and more towards funding children's entertainment. This starts
Speaker 2: with the comics pages a syndicated weekly pop collection called
Speaker 2: Puck is like massive for cigarette ads, but as Poli
Speaker 2: rights and quickly expand beyond that quote. In the nineteen fifties,
Speaker 2: many brands used cartoon trade characters in their advertising. The
Speaker 2: ads on Lucky Strikes Hit Parade for a while featured
Speaker 2: a cute animated character called Scoop, who, through the then
Speaker 2: impressive technical feet of superimposition, appeared on a on screen
Speaker 2: with the show's star Dorothy Collins. So that's where we
Speaker 2: get who framed Roger Rabbit? Motherfucker's cigarettes taught us how
Speaker 2: to do that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, gave us avata.
Speaker 2: Philip Morris's us Philip Morris's cartoons when advertising on Philip
Speaker 2: Morris used cartoons when advertising on I Love Lucy. Laura
Speaker 2: Lard created TV cartoon ads for Old Gold that featured
Speaker 2: the voices of their Honeymooners stars Jackie Gleeson and Art Carney.
Speaker 2: This presaged the Winston spots that employed the animated hit
Speaker 2: characters from The Flintstones, a totally cartoon show they sponsored,
Speaker 2: whose voices, structure, and sense of humor all imitated the Honeymooners.
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people are vaguely aware
Speaker 2: that The Flintstones used to have cigarette ads. You knew that, right, No, whoa,
Speaker 2: that's why it was created. The Flintstones were made as
Speaker 2: a cigarette ad. And to get an idea for how
Speaker 2: blatant this advertising was, you need to see some old
Speaker 2: episodes of The Flintstones, and I think this one includes
Speaker 2: a representative scene you should know to understand what's happening
Speaker 2: on screen. Right at the start of this, we see
Speaker 2: Fred and Barney kind of like hanging out in the
Speaker 2: yard on their asses while their wives are doing like
Speaker 2: yard work and house chores. So they're like chilling out
Speaker 2: and watching their wives work.
Speaker 3: Good stuff.
Speaker 2: They sure work, God, don't they're them work so hard? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Me tool and let's go around back. Well, we can't see.
Speaker 3: Him, do we want to do something?
Speaker 2: Fred? Okay, how's about taking on that? I got a
Speaker 2: better idea.
Speaker 3: Let's take a Winston break.
Speaker 2: From the cigarette that delivers flavor twenty times a pack
Speaker 2: makes the big taste difference, and only Winston has it
Speaker 2: up front where it comes here ahead of the pure
Speaker 2: white silt Winston packs, rich tobaccos, specially selected and specially Wow,
Speaker 2: that's a good flavor. Room. Yeah, it's still going yeah,
Speaker 2: like uh cigarette. Uh yeah, that is a lot of
Speaker 2: cigarette advertising.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I was. At first, I was appalled by the
Speaker 3: records of it, but then just the duration of it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Wow, they really were committed to selling kids cigarettes.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, whist and also not a great name compared
Speaker 3: to the Camel Camel Marlborough. Yeah, just a dude called
Speaker 3: Winston with little imagination. Yeah wow, that was amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the best. Yeah.
Speaker 3: That is like Alex Jones here just transissued from content
Speaker 3: to ads.
Speaker 2: Fucking Barney Rubble wants to get your ass into a
Speaker 2: pack of Winston's.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's going to be doing what is it, fucking
Speaker 3: silver or whatever Alex Jokes.
Speaker 2: Is trying to sell you now, colloidal silver? Yes, to
Speaker 2: see past that you can shoot up your ass.
Speaker 3: I don't know, yeah, nor do I care. I don't
Speaker 3: think our listenership overlapped, so no one else knows either,
Speaker 3: So it's fine.
Speaker 2: No, our listeners are buying a lot of gold now
Speaker 2: because of those gold ads running.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well that's good to say. Success. We have
Speaker 3: to get him back to the season.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: We love we love the gold ad people. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna I'm gonna do a free ad. Right now,
Speaker 2: buy gold. It's the cigarettes of currency. Well, actually that's cigarettes.
Speaker 2: Gold's almost as valuable as cigarettes and the pinch. So
Speaker 2: it pick some up today, smoke it. Why don't you
Speaker 2: you know what, James, I have an idea. Why don't
Speaker 2: we make a lot of money. We get cigarettes, grind
Speaker 2: up gold into them, pour gold flakes into the cigarettes,
Speaker 2: and then sell them to rich assholes who have taped.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely. There's like a thing, isn't it like
Speaker 3: a vodka? Don't think that has got.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's a couple of liquors that have.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you may, it's not necessary, Sophie, but I need to.
Speaker 1: Signy so many gold gold unussary gold.
Speaker 2: So you know how there's you know, Robert getting script
Speaker 2: poured out some.
Speaker 3: Gold liquor and uh yeah right, I'm back.
Speaker 2: Wrap a cigarette.
Speaker 3: Yeah there was no gold, but I've got my glass
Speaker 3: of lead.
Speaker 2: And so during the late forties to the early fifties,
Speaker 2: the science coming out about cigarettes and cancer starts to
Speaker 2: look worse and worse. The RJ. Reynolds Company launches a
Speaker 2: new campaign for camel cigarettes in nineteen forty six, centered
Speaker 2: around the slogan more doctor smoked camels than any other
Speaker 2: cigarette six years. This is like, this is their main
Speaker 2: advertising push for six years.
Speaker 3: Dentist and tooth brush thing with cigarettes.
Speaker 2: Amazing, great, Yeah, absolutely, yes, the cigarette that nine out
Speaker 2: of ten doctors recommend. Reynolds backs up their claim that's
Speaker 2: more stick doctors smoke camels than any other cigarette, with
Speaker 2: surveys that they said had been conducted by quote three
Speaker 2: leading independent research organizations. Now they don't name these organizations.
Speaker 2: One representative ad claims that a survey of one hundred
Speaker 2: and thirteen five hundred and ninety seven doctors from quote
Speaker 2: every branch of medicine had shown that Camels were the
Speaker 2: brand most often smoked by doctors.
Speaker 3: That's what you want is a cigarette that your pediatrist chooses?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, really, yeah, I want to know. Yeah, nobody,
Speaker 2: nobody knows what you should be smoking better than a
Speaker 2: fucking proctologist. That that's that's that's who's got it down. Yeah,
Speaker 2: as an obstetricians chooses Winston's. Yeah, that would be quite funny.
Speaker 1: Boy.
Speaker 2: Women seem to really want a cigarette after giving birth.
Speaker 2: Probably good for you.
Speaker 3: Why don't you drink? So?
Speaker 1: R J.
Speaker 2: Reynolds assured, cutustomers that this survey, which totally existed, was
Speaker 2: an actual fact and not a casual claim, and their
Speaker 2: competitors were all doing the same thing. American Tobacco present
Speaker 2: president George Washington Hill contracted the legendary ad executive Albert
Speaker 2: Lasker and tasked him to come up with a reason
Speaker 2: why customers should smoke his cigarettes. And I want to
Speaker 2: quote now from a write up in the American Journal
Speaker 2: of Public Health. With no real scientific evidence to back
Speaker 2: their claims, American Tobacco insisted that the toasting process that
Speaker 2: Lucky Strikes Tobacco underwent decreased throat irritation. In fact, Lucky
Speaker 2: Strikes curing process did not significantly differ from that of
Speaker 2: other brands. Related campaigns emphasized that Luckies would help consumers,
Speaker 2: especially women, their new market stay trimmed since they could
Speaker 2: reach for a Lucky instead of a suite. Along with
Speaker 2: these persistent health claims, a typical advertisement from nineteen thirty
Speaker 2: boldly stated that twenty six hundred and seventy nine physicians
Speaker 2: say Luckies they're less irritating. Good Great now, James, do
Speaker 2: you want to know how they'd gotten the information that
Speaker 2: Luckies were seen as less irritating by doctors.
Speaker 3: Did they send them a capacut of lucky strikes? And also,
Speaker 3: shit they did.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Their advertising agency, Lloyd Thomas and Logan sent cigarette
Speaker 2: cartons to physicians in nineteen twenty six, nineteen twenty seven,
Speaker 2: and nineteen twenty eight and then asked them to answer
Speaker 2: our Lucky strike cigarettes less irritating to tender throats than
Speaker 2: other cigarettes. And the doctors were like, yeah, I want
Speaker 2: more free cigarettes.
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, I what's free cigarette bolk school. I'll take
Speaker 3: that one, great good. That's how science is done.
Speaker 2: That is how science is done.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: Now, touting the toasting process and the accompanying cover letter,
Speaker 2: advertising executive Thomas Logan pointed out the virtues of lucky
Speaker 2: strikes and claimed that they had quote heard from a
Speaker 2: good many people that they could smoke lucky strikes with
Speaker 2: perfect comfort to their throats. American Tobacco used doctor's responses
Speaker 2: to this survey in order to push the claim that
Speaker 2: lucky strikes are less irritating. The toasting, as they explained,
Speaker 2: it is quote your throat protection against irritation against cough.
Speaker 2: Thank god, thank god they figured out toasting, Otherwise these
Speaker 2: cigarettes might really are hurt people.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, you got to toast them. That's how
Speaker 3: you just popic up the cigarettes and your toast it.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, no counser for you. So.
Speaker 2: Self reported adults smoking peaked in the early nineteen fifties
Speaker 2: at about forty five percent of the population. Big Tobacco's
Speaker 2: ploy to buy up doctors had worked for a while,
Speaker 2: but in late nineteen fifty three, the first irrefutable studies
Speaker 2: linking lung cancer to tobacco use were published, to tremendous
Speaker 2: public interest. Major peer reviewed journal studies had tied not
Speaker 2: just cancer, but cardiac disease and serious respiratory illness to smoking.
Speaker 2: The situation was serious enough that the head executives of
Speaker 2: the big five tobacco companies all came together in December
Speaker 2: of nineteen fifty three to figure out how to respond
Speaker 2: to this news. They picked the Plaza Hotel in New
Speaker 2: York City as the place to map out their strategy,
Speaker 2: and it is possible that no other location in the
Speaker 2: United States, including the pentag Gone, has been used to
Speaker 2: make plans that ended with a greater death toll. The
Speaker 2: master of the moment was John W. Hill, president of
Speaker 2: the biggest pr firm in the country. Hill and Knowlton
Speaker 2: now John had been born in Indiana in eighteen ninety.
Speaker 2: He'd spent most of his early career working as a journalist.
Speaker 2: He's a journalist for eighteen years, working his way up
Speaker 2: the ladder to become an editor and a popular columnist.
Speaker 2: In nineteen twenty seven, he blazed a trail that generations
Speaker 2: of soulless hacks would follow, and he decided to start
Speaker 2: a PR firm. By the time nineteen fifty three year
Speaker 2: rolled around, it was the largest PR firm on the planet.
Speaker 2: Hill was worth the money, and in that hotel conference
Speaker 2: room he laid out the bones of what would be
Speaker 2: known as Plan Whitecoat. The basic idea was to create
Speaker 2: an industry sponsored research entity, a think take of scientists
Speaker 2: funded by tobacco money but ostensibly independent. This would allow
Speaker 2: big tobacco to claim they were taking fears of lung
Speaker 2: cancer seriously, while also providing them with disinformation to muddy
Speaker 2: the waters by painting the existing studies is insufficient. I'm
Speaker 2: going to quote, yeah, it's awesome, it's so good.
Speaker 3: No one's ever done it, since no one.
Speaker 2: This is not this is not the thing that's going
Speaker 2: to end all life. On this planet. No, he'll did
Speaker 2: not just build the apocalypse bomb.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, Jesus Christ. Yeah. Well they've given us everything
Speaker 3: from Pokemon cars to fucking timate change.
Speaker 2: It's incredible. Cigarettes are amazing je.
Speaker 3: Yes, wow, yeah, yeah, they are something.
Speaker 2: One of the single most important inventions in the history
Speaker 2: of the planet.
Speaker 3: Yeah. God, and people die of starvation. You don't. Here
Speaker 3: we are. We've made a cancer steak, and we've we've
Speaker 3: created new and exciting ways to lie about it.
Speaker 2: It's amazing, it's so cool.
Speaker 3: I'm kind of close him.
Speaker 2: Who could full it? God, what a great product. I'm
Speaker 2: going to quote now from a twenty twelve article in
Speaker 2: the American Journal of Public Health. The industry had supported
Speaker 2: some individual research in recent years, but Hill's proposal offered
Speaker 2: the potential of a research program that would be controlled
Speaker 2: by the industry yet promoted as independent. This was a
Speaker 2: public relations masters stroke. Hill stood that you're giving Yeah.
Speaker 2: Hill understood that simply giving money to scientists through the
Speaker 2: National Institutes of Health or some other entity, for example,
Speaker 2: offered little opportunity to shape the public relations environment. However,
Speaker 2: offering funds directly to university based scientists would enlist their
Speaker 2: support in dependence. Moreover, it would have the added benefit
Speaker 2: of making academic institutions partners with the tobacco industry in
Speaker 2: its moment of crisis. Hill and his clients had no interest. Yeah.
Speaker 2: In answer, Hill and his clients had no interest in
Speaker 2: answering a scientific question. Their goal was to maintain vigorous
Speaker 2: control over the research program to use science in the
Speaker 2: service of public relations. Although the tobacco executives had proposed
Speaker 2: forming a Cigarette Information Committee dedicated to defending smoking against
Speaker 2: the medical findings, Hill argued aggressively for adding research to
Speaker 2: the committee's title and agenda. It is believed he wrote
Speaker 2: that the word research is needed in the name to
Speaker 2: give weight and added credence to the committee's statements. Hill
Speaker 2: understood that his clients should be viewed as embracing science
Speaker 2: rather than dismissing it. Now again, Hill's a journalist, right,
Speaker 2: That's part of how he's able to do this. He
Speaker 2: understands how to communicate, He understands how people read things.
Speaker 2: One of the first things he emphasized to the industry
Speaker 2: leaders was that they had to stop competing with each
Speaker 2: other trying to move cartons by convincing customers that their
Speaker 2: smokes were more soothing or healthier than the others. This
Speaker 2: was bad, right, Arguing like lucky strikes are healthier than
Speaker 2: Marlborough's is bad for the whole industry, so we have
Speaker 2: to stop it. The key to surviving, this Hill told them,
Speaker 2: was collective action, and one that looked like a commitment
Speaker 2: to public welfare while actually doing everything possible to harm
Speaker 2: public welfare. The Tobacco Industry Research Committee was formed in
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty four and announced its existence with full page
Speaker 2: ads and more than four hundred newspapers. This ad, known
Speaker 2: as the Frank Statement, claimed that tobacco companies were deeply
Speaker 2: concerned about the welfare of their customers and would pursue
Speaker 2: any end to get to the bottom of this whole
Speaker 2: tobacco equals cancer thing. Quote. We accept an interest in
Speaker 2: people's health as a basic responsibility paramount to every other
Speaker 2: consideration in our business. We believe the products we make
Speaker 2: are not injurious to health. We always have and always
Speaker 2: will cooperate closely with those whose task it is to
Speaker 2: safeguard the public health.
Speaker 3: That's good, great, yeah, show very honest, very straightforward.
Speaker 2: So despite these high minded claims, the TRC's agenda was
Speaker 2: laid out by Hill before he consulted a single scientist.
Speaker 2: The executive director of the organization, W. T. Hoyt, had
Speaker 2: no scientific background. His previous job had been selling ads
Speaker 2: for the Saturday Evening Post. Within his first few months
Speaker 2: of operation, Hoyt and other executives of the TRC put
Speaker 2: out a statement directly responding to studies that purported to
Speaker 2: show a link between cigarettes and disease. It is an
Speaker 2: obligation of the Tobacco Industry Research Committee at this time
Speaker 2: to remind the public of these essential points. One, there
Speaker 2: is no conclusive scientific proof of a link between smoking
Speaker 2: and cancer. Two, medical research points to many possible causes
Speaker 2: of cancer, and three, but millions of people who derive
Speaker 2: pleasure and satisfaction from SMI can be reassured that every
Speaker 2: scientific means will be used to get oh, the facts
Speaker 2: as soon as possible.
Speaker 3: Great, Yeah, yeah, it's.
Speaker 2: Gotta go well, James, it's gonna go really well.
Speaker 3: Yep, I can see this anying. Well.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 2: The first scientific director appointed to the TRC was Clarence
Speaker 2: Cook Little, an extremely prominent biologist and geneticists who had
Speaker 2: become extremely prominent because he was a popular eugenicist.
Speaker 3: That good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's really funny because Cook like a
Speaker 4: little the reason he believes that cigarettes did because he's
Speaker 4: a He truly believes that the people who connect him
Speaker 4: to cancer is wrong because he believes that lung cancer
Speaker 4: is genetic, so it can't be caused by an environmental factor,
Speaker 4: like inhaling cigarettes a year.
Speaker 2: It's got to be. It's gotta be something to do
Speaker 2: with the fact that certain races are more likely to
Speaker 2: get cancer. Oh god, it is one thing I'll have
Speaker 2: to you got to say for a racist, this guy
Speaker 2: probably killed more white people than any other racist. Yeah.
Speaker 2: He does drop a lot of white folks.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, accidentally.
Speaker 2: Based well he drops everyone else too. Yeah, true, maybe
Speaker 2: not maybe unlike him, cigarettes don't discriminate.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh, dear god. They become a magnet for the
Speaker 3: shittest things in humanity.
Speaker 2: It is incredible. How many terrible? Yeah, it's it's amazing.
Speaker 3: What's gonna happen next? They're going to like stand with
Speaker 3: the turfs or something. Cigarettes. You just don't like queer people. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm tell you. It's probably in the Harry Potter books somewhere.
Speaker 2: Yeah. In nineteen fifty four, the TRC's budget was around
Speaker 2: a million dollars, nearly all of which went to Hill
Speaker 2: and Knowlton in various ads rather than actual science. But
Speaker 2: by nineteen sixty three the TRC was giving out close
Speaker 2: to a million dollars in grants. These funded research, actual
Speaker 2: scientific research, but they picked the kind of research carefully.
Speaker 2: So we're not going to do research what causes lung cancer,
Speaker 2: but we'll do research into how cancer develops over time
Speaker 2: and how it grows in the body, and ways to
Speaker 2: fight it and stuff, and this is important stuff. So
Speaker 2: they can keep coming out with these studies funded by
Speaker 2: TRC money that are real studies, but none of them
Speaker 2: happen to look into whether or not smoking causes cancer. Right,
Speaker 2: you can look at how genetics or virology impacts cancer rates,
Speaker 2: and those are important things to study. But by picking
Speaker 2: what gets funded specifically, they are very very.
Speaker 3: Purposefully putting better airbags in then no breaks Modelobo car.
Speaker 2: So this strategy worked for decades, distracting the public and
Speaker 2: lawmakers from any actions that might negatively impact the rate
Speaker 2: at which people smoked. Key to the success of this
Speaker 2: program was Hill's understanding of how journalism worked. From that
Speaker 2: journal of public health article. Hill understood that the success
Speaker 2: of any public relations strategy was highly dependent on face
Speaker 2: to face interpersonal relations with important media outlets. Each time
Speaker 2: the TRC issued a press release, the Hill and Nolton
Speaker 2: organization would initiate a personal contact. The firm systematically documented
Speaker 2: the courtship of newspapers and magazines where it could urge
Speaker 2: balance and fairness in the industry. In these intreaties on
Speaker 2: behalf of the industry, the firm staffers repeated several key themes. First,
Speaker 2: they would note that the industry completely understood its important
Speaker 2: public responsibilities. Second, they would affirm that the industry was
Speaker 2: deeply committed to investigating all of the scientific questions relevant
Speaker 2: to resolving the controversy. Third, they urged skepticism regarding statistical studies. Finally,
Speaker 2: they offered members of the media a long list of
Speaker 2: independent skeptics to consult to ensure balance in their presentations.
Speaker 3: Great also responsible for the dozens of direct marketing emails
Speaker 3: I guess every single day. Yeah great, right now I'm
Speaker 3: personally agree for this MATTERFI.
Speaker 2: Yeah, cigarettes created everything. The primary independent skeptic, of course,
Speaker 2: was the TRC. Is little that's the eugenics guy. Given
Speaker 2: the pinshant of the press for controversy and it's often
Speaker 2: naive notion of allance. These appeals were remarkably successful. Hilln
Speaker 2: Nolton expertly broadcast their arguments, typically not based on substantive
Speaker 2: research of any kind, of a small group of skeptics,
Speaker 2: as if their positions represented a dominant perspective on the
Speaker 2: medical science of the cigarette. In this sense, the public
Speaker 2: relations campaign advantaged two critical pieces of mid century media practice. First,
Speaker 2: journalists favored reporting on controversy. Second, by providing opposing positions
Speaker 2: as if they were equal, they affirmed their commitment to balance. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's right, baby, that's right baby.
Speaker 3: Fuck sake, why piss off? Uh huh, yeah, No, they've
Speaker 3: invented both sides.
Speaker 2: They did invent both sides again. So they gave us
Speaker 2: Donald Trump. That's what they gave us, Donald Trump. They
Speaker 2: gave us climate change denial. They gave us a lot
Speaker 2: of the gun industries, tactics, Barry Weiss, all of that
Speaker 2: ship comes from big tobacco.
Speaker 3: Yeah, god, they gave us.
Speaker 2: They gave us the fucking Iraq war. All of these,
Speaker 2: all of these strategies are the things that like we're
Speaker 2: like they pioneered all of those strategies, and that's where
Speaker 2: we're going to end for the day. James, Yeah, will, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Let's stop. So I've become enraged.
Speaker 2: We will. We will talk in more detail about the
Speaker 2: tobacco industry later, but yeah, this is this is how they, like,
Speaker 2: there's a bigger story in kind of how they kept
Speaker 2: this up as it became increasingly obvious that cigarettes caused cancer,
Speaker 2: and like how they advertised to children and like the
Speaker 2: nineties and stuff, and Joe Cammell there's a story, and
Speaker 2: like how they tried to destroy the lives of people
Speaker 2: who blew the whistle on them, like former tobacco employees,
Speaker 2: And we'll talk about all of those one day. But
Speaker 2: this is this is the story of how tobacco invented
Speaker 2: everything in the modern world.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Great, I feel really good about all the things
Speaker 3: that we've got from it.
Speaker 2: It's cool that you can tie like funco pops, climate change,
Speaker 2: denial in the Iraq War all to trying to get
Speaker 2: people to smoke.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, it's really it's really great and caism and
Speaker 3: that's nothing but good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, pokemon and medical patents all all have cigarettes to think.
Speaker 3: Yeah, god, yeah, it's just unfathomable. It's terrible, it's awful. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's it's the nature of the system we live in.
Speaker 3: Maybe change it.
Speaker 2: It's the nature of the system we live in part
Speaker 2: because of cigarettes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, very good. Maybe maybe consider a different system.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe consider a system in which it's not possible
Speaker 2: to do.
Speaker 3: The good thing is Robert that none of these issues
Speaker 3: are tied to vaping, which is fine and totally totally
Speaker 3: normal and good, and therefore you should just get a
Speaker 3: fruit loop vape.
Speaker 2: Yeah, get get a flavored vape, you know, buy some
Speaker 2: of that. Uh, I don't know what else, what other
Speaker 2: what drugs do kids like to do today? Get some
Speaker 2: Get some of that. Get some of that flavored Fitanel
Speaker 2: tide pods mixture, Finnel in your tide pods together kids. Yeah,
Speaker 2: a good one.
Speaker 3: That's so turing that on taking the talk right now
Speaker 3: from what I understand, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, TikTok and everything that doesn't have any further James,
Speaker 2: is there anything you like to plug.
Speaker 3: Apart from tide pods? Yeah, I did think. Yeah, we
Speaker 3: talked about a podcast. I've written a book. It's called
Speaker 3: The Popular Front and the nineteen thirty six Bus owner Olympics.
Speaker 3: You can probably find it at the library. Then you
Speaker 3: won't be helping to create the system which gave us,
Speaker 3: you know, Pokemon cards and everyone having cancer. And yeah,
Speaker 3: you can find me on Twitter. It's just my name, James,
Speaker 3: like bondst Out, like the beer. We that's all. Anarchism
Speaker 3: is the other thing. I always like to plug on podcasts.
Speaker 3: So maybe yeah, Recrepokin.
Speaker 1: And we're doing a it could happen here livestream virtual
Speaker 1: show on October twenty six.
Speaker 2: Yeah, motherfuckers, yep, So pick up a pack of lucky strikes.
Speaker 2: I want to see all of you beautiful people smoking
Speaker 2: when we do our live show. Just just really burn
Speaker 2: them down. Nothing raises the value of a house faster
Speaker 2: than the smoking cigarette's Yeah.
Speaker 3: Ring, go back to return to tradition by sticking two
Speaker 3: cigarettes up your nose after smoking them that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, smoke your cigarettes the traditional way.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Anyway, yeah.
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