WEBVTT - Bernie Pt. 2 | Betrayal Weekly 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:04.120 Hey, Betrayal fans, I have exciting news to share. Season 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:07.520 three of Betrayal is now a docuseries on Hulu. It's 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:10.440 the gripping story of Stacy Tyler and the doctor who 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:13.640 betrayed them. See the voices You've come to know in 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:17.000 Betrayal Under his Eye, streaming now on Hulu. 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:26.800 Three weeks before he had first messaged me, he had 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:33.440 actually absconded from prison. He was serving a sentence for 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:37.879 fraud and he was on the run when he met me. 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:57.040 I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about 0:00:57.040 --> 0:01:00.560 the people we trust the most and the deceptions that 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:08.600 change everything. Bernie Brown met a man named Leo on Grinder. 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:14.160 Leo was unlike anyone he'd ever met, intoxicatingly charming, and 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:17.160 it didn't hurt that he drove a Bentley. After a 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:19.880 few weeks of dating, Leo revealed that he was actually 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:22.440 a member of the royal family, and because of that, 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:26.200 he couldn't come out as gay. His relationship with Bernie 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:30.120 had to be a secret. Leo's need for privacy became 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:34.360 even more heightened when he received a terminal cancer diagnosis. 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.480 All the while, Leo kept up his career restoring luxury watches. 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:41.480 He even made a deal with Bernie to restore a 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:45.319 Rolex for free. Bernie just had to cover the initial cost. 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:48.120 To do that. Bernie took out a high interest loan 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:50.880 to pay for the watch and together they would resell 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:54.440 it for a profit. But once Bernie transferred the money, 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:59.480 Leo's communication became more sparse, until one night when Bernie 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:01.800 got his darycal call from his boyfriend. 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:04.920 He was like, Bernie, I can't take this life anymore. 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:08.040 Bernie drove across the country to pick him up. 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:10.840 He was in tears. He went asleep and I was 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:11.680 stroking his hair. 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:14.959 The next morning, Leo made a proposition. 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.120 And it's like, I've got a serious question that I 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:20.840 need to ask you. I want to move somewhere in Scotland. 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:23.239 Would you come with me. 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:28.960 Leo had been looking to buy a castle in the 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:32.080 Scottish countryside where he could live out the rest of 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:35.880 his life the way he wanted to with Bernie, and. 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:37.600 He was like, I want to put an offer in 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:40.520 and move within the month. I'm just done with all 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:43.119 of this. I'm like, do you know what, We've got 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.000 one life, Let's do it. 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:54.080 Leo drove them back to London. It was a five 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:57.639 hour drive and they spent every minute of it planning 0:02:57.680 --> 0:02:58.639 their new life. 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:04.720 We had designed this entire life down to the jobs 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:07.320 we would do, the businesses we would build. 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:13.440 On their drive, Leo's grandparents called. They were nearby, so 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:15.640 Leo decided to meet up with them and spend the 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.680 rest of the day with his grandparents. Bernie could drive 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.720 the Bentley back to London, so halfway through their trip, 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:25.120 Leo pulled off at a gas station where his grandparents 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:32.040 were waiting. It was the first time Bernie had seen 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:35.880 anyone in Leo's family. Leo asked Bernie to act like 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:37.160 they were just friends. 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:40.920 He went over to this couple they must have been 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:46.560 in their late sixties, and his granddad went to go 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:49.920 to the bathroom. So I was like, okay, I need 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:52.160 to toilet anyway, So I was like, I'll go and 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:54.920 then I went in and then he came in after me, 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:56.960 so I was like okay. 0:03:57.600 --> 0:03:59.880 On the way out of the bathroom, Bernie struck up 0:03:59.880 --> 0:04:03.240 a conversation with Leo's granddad and he was like, oh. 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:05.280 Well, we live in Sussex. That's where the castle was. 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:09.960 They chatted about life in Sussex, then headed back to 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:13.640 their cars. Leo went with his grandparents and Bernie drove 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:17.240 alone back to London. Bernie was excited about starting his 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.400 new life in Scotland, but his financial stress about the 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:23.440 watch was mounting. It wouldn't be ready to resell in 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:25.160 time for Bernie's next loan payment. 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:29.719 I'm panicking now, I'd missed one direct debit. February's was 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:32.719 coming up, and it still was not happening. 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:36.880 As the weeks went on, Bernie kept asking his boyfriend 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:38.280 for an update on the watch. 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:43.360 The watch is being almost dangled. It's like, oh, I'll 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:45.119 bring it up, can I I'll come up to yours. 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:47.360 I was like, okay, fine, I'll bring the watch up. 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:50.680 He'd get to the house. No watch, Oh I forgot 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:54.640 I didn't go home yet. For whatever reason, the watch 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:59.400 would always either be forgotten or once the cleaner accidentally 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:01.560 moved it and it was lost in the house somewhere, 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.400 so he needs to go back and look for it. 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:06.719 It was getting absurd that Leo couldn't get the watch 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:10.080 sorted out. Sure, there was a lot happening in Leo's life, 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:13.920 but waiting this long was affecting Bernie's there. 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:17.640 Was something inside that I was questioning a lot more, 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:21.560 but I was still hooked. I still agreed to go 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:23.360 to Scotland with him. 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:27.120 Just weeks before, Leo had needed Bernie to drive through 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:29.880 the night to be there for him. Leo showed him 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:32.919 the house he was putting an offer on. Now Bernie 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:36.679 wasn't even getting a text or a call back for days. 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:41.279 The gas lighting started. We'd have this call, for instance, 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:43.839 and what are you doing today, Let's have a call tonight. Yeah, okay, 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:47.560 and then we'd have a call arrange something, and then 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.240 he would be like, we didn't arrange it. I was like, 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:52.040 well we did, because you know, I put it here, 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:53.719 I put it in my diary. I put it. No, 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:55.720 we didn't have that conversation. 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.640 Bernie knew that Leo isolated when he was stressed about 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:02.920 his camp or his family. Bernie wondered if things had 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:06.160 gotten worse, but all the worrying was starting to take 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:07.599 a toll on his own health. 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:16.040 End of January, February and beginning of March was and 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:21.120 still is, to a degree, a blur. I got into 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:25.559 the worst state of mind. I had to take time 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:30.359 off of work for depression I got massively depressed. I 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:32.200 lost so much weight I didn't eat. 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:36.280 Bernie knew something was wrong, and he started spiraling. 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:42.239 Of course, like anyone, I went straight into his seeing 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:46.200 somebody else mode, somebody else is on the scene, and 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:50.720 I went into that whole whirlwind. I did then do 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:52.799 something cheap because I was like, I can't do this normal. 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:55.000 I literally cannot do this anymore. 0:06:55.720 --> 0:07:01.080 With Leo across the country, Bernie got an idea, what I. 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:05.719 Think I should download Grinder again. And with Grinder you 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:10.200 can change location and search for profiles within that location. 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:13.880 So Bernie created a fake Grinder profile and set it 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:14.840 to Leo's location. 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:19.800 Now I knew his type, so I found a decent 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:23.560 looking ginger guy, put that on my profile, and I 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:27.960 spent a good day at the location looking through profiles 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:33.320 that didn't have pictures on Lo and behold, he found 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:33.960 my profile. 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:38.000 Leo sent the first message. 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:40.320 So we're just talking. I'm like, what do you do 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:43.480 is I'm a horologist, you know, I deal with watches, 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.280 And he went straight into you and I'm a part 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:49.400 of the Howard family, and then he sent me pictures. 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:51.080 It was him. 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.480 At the same time, Leo was talking to fake Bernie 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.880 on Grinder. He was avoiding real Bernie's texts. 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:01.080 He would reply to this person for literally about an hour, 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:06.040 but I'm getting no reply. So I'm like, do you 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:11.320 know what I'm done? Now? That's it. I need to 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:13.920 get this watch and I need to get it soon. 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.160 So I did actually confront him with it, and I 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:19.960 was like, I know you've been speaking to people, and 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:22.360 I sent him a screenshot of the profile, and of 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:25.360 course he was like, how dare you try putting it 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:27.880 on me? And I was like, I didn't do anything, 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:31.040 and I was like, you have no right and went 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:32.520 off on one and I'm like, do you know what, 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:36.079 it's absolutely fine, just give me the watch. That's when 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:39.040 he turned nasty. I was like, you're not getting the watch. 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:41.080 You don't deserve the watch. 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:46.680 Regardless of Leo's royal status or cancer diagnosis. Bernie wasn't 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:48.920 going to allow someone to speak to him that way. 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:53.400 He hung up. Then Leo started blowing up his phone. 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:56.000 You know, I really love you and all of this 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:57.280 and what about Scotland. 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:02.400 Bernie told him he wasn't coming to Scotland. Their relationship 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:06.600 was over, the only thing he wanted from Leo was 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:07.120 the watch. 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:09.440 So he's like, look, I'm going to bring the watch. 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:11.720 It's finally ready. I was like, oh my god, I'm 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:14.160 actually going to get this watch now, and he was like, 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:15.080 I'm going to bring it down. 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:18.040 They set a time and place to meet. 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:20.120 He was like, are you're going to be okay seeing me? 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:23.320 You know it may be a strain, and I'm like, listen, 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:25.680 I'm sure I'm going to be fine. I just just 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:29.800 make sure you bring the watch. Turns up, no watch. 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:34.560 That was the last time they ever spoke. 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:38.880 I said enough is enough. I'm worth more than this, 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:42.440 and I blocked his number. I had just been like, 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:45.600 I'm never getting that watch. I need to deal with 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:49.199 what I can and this is the position that I'm in. 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:52.680 Bernie says he was a shell of himself. Over the 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:55.839 course of nine months, his entire life had been rearranged. 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:58.880 All of his savings were gone, he had taken out 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:02.560 loans and max out every credit card he had. It 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:04.440 left Bernie in a dark place. 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:08.760 My best friends literally descended on my house and were like, 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:11.679 we've never seen you like this, and we need to 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:16.080 pick it up. If I didn't have my friends around 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:18.800 me at the time, I don't know if I would 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:23.679 actually be here to this day. I genuinely, genuinely believe. 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:28.160 That Bernie's friend supported him emotionally, but he was facing 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:29.800 his financial crisis alone. 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:35.600 I had to just bow and say I can't afford it. Default, 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:41.520 and my credit score at one point went from the 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:46.960 highest it had ever been straight down to zero. I'd 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:50.880 never even seen zero on a credit score before. I 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:54.800 was working in retail, and I had all this depth, 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:56.560 and the debts that were coming out on a monthly 0:10:56.600 --> 0:11:00.560 basis because of everything that happened was higher than my 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:04.079 entire pay let alone, when you take away bills and 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:05.840 utilities and all of that. 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:10.240 Bernie was overwhelmed with shame. He was at risk of 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:14.080 getting his car repossessed or his wages garnished. He was 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:16.960 able to make a payment plan, but in the meantime 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:19.000 he had very little money to live on. 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:23.840 He didn't take an obscene amount of money from me 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:30.280 monetary wise, but what he did do was absolutely wipe 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:33.640 me out. At one point, I didn't have the money 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:36.839 to go to the shop to buy food. The monetary 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:42.320 amount for me twenty thousand could have easily been five million. 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:47.520 It was all that I had to my name to survive. 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:51.560 Twenty thousand pounds was a drop in the bucket for Leo. 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:55.320 After all, his family lived in a historic castle. He 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:59.959 drove a Bentley. But twenty thousand pounds was everything to Bernie, 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:01.640 and Leo knew that. 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:06.079 I've reminded him time and time again. He knew exactly 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:13.240 what my financial background was, what my current financial situation was. 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:16.600 He knew about all of that, but he still pushed 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:19.360 to take them credit cards. He knew all of that 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:23.199 was coming, and I reminded him many times, every single day, 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:27.880 almost that this is hitting. He absolutely did not care. 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:32.800 Slowly, Bernie came to terms with his financial reality. He 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:36.679 continued leaning on his friends for emotional support. That's when 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:40.040 one of his friends said something he hadn't considered before. 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:44.840 This was theft he'd been robbed. 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:48.720 She was like, he's going to carry on doing it 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:52.320 to other people until somebody actually puts a stop to it. 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:56.480 At that point, I decided that actually I will contact 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:58.920 the police because this isn't right. 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:02.520 Bernie walked into the police station and filed a report. 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:06.520 They did take it seriously. I gave everything I had 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:11.760 to them, and they had absolutely no idea who this person. 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:17.120 Was according to the police database, Leo Howard didn't exist. 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:22.120 I emailed Arundel Castle, which is the official residence of 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:26.280 the Duke of Norfolk, and there was absolutely no record 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:31.200 of Leo Howard, Leo Bose Howard, or absolutely anything. So 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:35.160 then I started doing my own research, but there was 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:37.360 absolutely no trace. 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.880 Bernie knew the VIN numbers to Leo's Range, Rover and Bentley. 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:45.840 All of the car registration numbers had completely been erased, 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:49.280 which is very hard to do. I don't know how 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:50.040 that's possible. 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:54.320 The VIN numbers weren't listed on any database. It was 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:58.960 like the cars never existed. But Bernie remembered riding in 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:04.400 those cars, driving those cars. It was all so strange. 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:08.160 He was starting to wonder what was even real. 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:14.320 It was as if I had completely imagined the entire year, 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:19.760 completely imagined it, because this person just did not exist. 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:24.040 Leo had vanished into thin air. Even the police had 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:26.160 hit a dead end. 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:31.000 The police could not recognize his picture. They had to 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:35.320 just close the investigation. It must have been a good 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:39.280 year later and I get a call when it comes 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:42.120 up and it's the police officer that was originally dealing 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.040 with the case. Then I answered and there was a 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:47.680 nice of tears. You know, how are you? And then 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:51.880 he said, do you watch Channel four? And I said, 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:55.800 to be honest, no, And he said, right, okay, there's 0:14:55.920 --> 0:15:00.560 this documentary that's just been shown on Channel four and 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:04.200 from that I've been given a case. And he said, 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:08.160 everything that's been described in the case and on the 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:12.200 documentary is almost identical to my story. 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:16.240 Bernie had no idea that across the country other people 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:19.080 had been reporting a very similar crime to the police. 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:23.640 A broader case was developing. In fact, the story was 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:27.520 already out as a true crime documentary. It was about 0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:31.440 a prolific and highly manipulative scam artist operating all over 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:36.040 the UK. The detective calling wanted to know if Bernie 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:38.240 recognized the man at the center of it. 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:42.600 He said, can you just google and have a look. 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:47.280 As soon as he said that, I had that sinking feeling. 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:53.880 My heart dropped to the ground. I knew it would 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:59.680 be him. My hands started shaking, and my brain when 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.320 complete depletely dead on just how to google something. But 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:08.200 I managed it. I got there and it was his face. 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:32.080 A year after Bernie first went to the police, he 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.400 got a call from a detective. They linked his report 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:38.880 to a serial fraudster, someone who'd been conning men and 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:42.080 women across the UK with the same mix of charm, 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:43.880 money and elaborate lies. 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:47.920 There was a lot of press around it, and I 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:51.800 broke down. I absolutely broke down in tears. 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:56.880 The story had exploded. Leo's face was all over the news. 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:01.240 After Bernie got over the initial shock, a new feeling 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:01.800 flooded in. 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:09.600 The wave of relief. Now I have proof that it happens, because, 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:11.800 bearing in mind at that point, the only person who 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:15.000 had ever met him was my best friend. We went 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:17.800 out for one night. Apart from that, he didn't want 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:21.719 to meet anyone. He didn't want to be photographed anyone 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:24.200 that I told this story to. There was always, i'm sure, 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:28.040 an element of doubt because it was so extraordinary to 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:31.760 happen to me or to anyone. When I saw this, 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:38.719 it was that feeling, that overwhelming, almost joyous feeling of 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.080 I told you this did happen. 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:49.240 There were dozens of articles Bernie clicked on. One about 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:53.080 a woman who discovered her fiance was a fraud. He 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:56.440 built a five year relationship in order to scam her 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:58.760 out of thirty thousand pounds. 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:03.520 I read the article and everything that happened to me 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:05.520 had happened to her. 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:10.040 Bernie knew that the documentary might hold answers to as 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:12.240 many unanswered questions about Leo. 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:17.040 We sat down and we watched it, and as soon 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:22.840 as I press play, it starts with his face again. 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:28.040 I got that sinking feeling. It was surreal. 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:32.879 Scene after scene, Bernie realized he'd lived the same exact 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:37.200 moments with the same con man. The luxury watch business 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:40.680 a scam, the cancer diagnosis fake. 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.800 I'm heightened at that point, and the Bentley came up 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:48.480 and I was like, that's that was the Bentley and 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:51.800 the watch that I was handling, and the watch that 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:57.040 I was supposed to be buying was actually in the documentary, 0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:59.960 just even little parts of the story. I was like, yes, 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:00.640 he told me. 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:05.600 That, even though it was someone else's story, it was 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:10.879 like watching his own true crime documentary. Andy learned Leo 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:12.520 had a dozen aliases. 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:18.320 After the documentary, I did get emotional because I think 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:23.520 that then sunk in exactly the severity of what was happening. 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:29.399 I was just a number at that point. Straight Away, 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:33.800 I found the woman in the documentary on social media 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:36.919 and connected and I remember The first message was like, 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.760 you don't know me. I've just seen your documentary and 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:45.520 I met him such and such date. She came back 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:48.840 and we had a few telephone conversations. 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:52.719 They had so much in common. This other victim helped 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:55.560 Bernie fill in the gaps in his knowledge and pieced 0:19:55.600 --> 0:20:00.120 together a timeline. Most shocking of all, he learned. 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:03.680 Three weeks before he had messaged me, he had actually 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:10.119 absconded from prison. He was serving a sentence for fraud 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:13.520 and he was on the run when he met me. 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:18.879 Looking back, this explained something about Leo's behavior, how he 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:22.160 was always nervous around the police. 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:26.119 He never really liked the police. He was kind of 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:27.880 scared of the police, to the point he would wait 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:30.040 around the corner if there was police cars from driving past. 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:30.639 He was scared. 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:34.760 When Bernie met Leo. He wasn't in that campground because 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:37.199 it was the only place he could be himself. He 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:40.680 was there because he was in hiding. Leo had escaped 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:43.560 while he was serving a five year prison sentence for 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:48.040 defrauding another victim, and there were many more. He had 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:49.520 victims across England. 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:54.760 There was me and one other person in the north 0:20:54.840 --> 0:21:00.840 of London, all the other victims were in the south 0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:06.439 of England, in Kent, in Sussex. The person that was 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:10.520 in the documentary was in the Isle of Wight when 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:14.679 he escaped from prison. He had then obviously traveled and 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:15.680 he was in hiding. 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:20.120 What was so chilling to Bernie was that the. 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:27.080 Time the documentary was being filmed was when I was 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:27.720 with him. 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:31.800 And Bernie wasn't the only person Leo was scamming while 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:35.879 he was on the run. Remember Leo's grandparents, who Bernie 0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:37.040 met at the gas station. 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:41.399 I told the police my story and I said, look, 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:45.040 I came into contact with his nana grandad. They're like, no, 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:50.960 that was another victim. I was like, wow, he was 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:53.200 doing exactly the same to them. 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:57.760 If Leo stayed behind bars, many people wouldn't have been victimized. 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:01.360 He was a fugitive. The police were looking for him. 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:05.360 But the problem was the police weren't as savvy as Leo. 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:10.720 Now, we do have a national database which comes up, 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:15.000 but they didn't put him on that. So all the 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:19.760 time that I was with him, there were actually campaigns 0:22:19.800 --> 0:22:23.600 to find this person. However, the police don't talk to 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:27.160 each other over here, and when I had raised my case. 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:31.360 They had no idea who it was until the documentary 0:22:31.600 --> 0:22:32.080 came out. 0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:36.800 That's when police stations across the country started connecting the dots. 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:42.359 Channel four had done so many press releases that it 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:47.120 really got the national scope. And I think we're on 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:51.920 about ten people that have come forward and raised a case. 0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:56.720 Because of the heightened press and because all of this 0:22:56.880 --> 0:23:01.639 was going around, he decided to hand himself in. 0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:06.040 Leo was sent back to prison and Bernie hoped justice 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:07.920 would finally be served. 0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:13.040 But he still qualified for early release. The mind boggles, 0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:15.840 But that's where we are and that's what we have 0:23:15.920 --> 0:23:18.040 to deal with, and that's what we are currently facing. 0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:23.399 Through this whole process, Bernie was able to get a 0:23:23.400 --> 0:23:27.639 true understanding of who this man really was. He even 0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:30.639 heard from people who knew the real Leo before he 0:23:30.680 --> 0:23:31.600 became a criminal. 0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:36.600 I've had so many messages over social media and TikTok 0:23:37.359 --> 0:23:40.399 where people have gone to school with him, and he 0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:42.679 used to make up stories to get people in trouble. 0:23:43.280 --> 0:23:48.560 He naturally gravitated towards fraud from a very very early age. 0:23:49.400 --> 0:23:54.919 His background is so far from the royal family it's unbelievable. 0:23:55.480 --> 0:24:01.400 From my knowledge, he is Polish heritage, very broken upbringing, 0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:06.520 and he, in all intents and purposes, created his own 0:24:06.560 --> 0:24:12.960 system to survive. And his system was to fraudulently gain 0:24:13.440 --> 0:24:17.679 money from anywhere he could to create the life that 0:24:18.000 --> 0:24:19.760 he saw himself and that he wanted. 0:24:20.760 --> 0:24:23.600 And the life he wanted was one where he was wealthy, 0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:25.760 powerful and important. 0:24:27.680 --> 0:24:31.000 He wanted to be part of the royal family setting, 0:24:31.400 --> 0:24:37.359 and he believed that he was destined for more. He 0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:41.840 had created his own reality, and I think the longer 0:24:42.000 --> 0:24:45.560 he believed it, the more he believed it. 0:24:47.040 --> 0:24:50.520 Creating a string of fraudulent identities was more than just 0:24:50.600 --> 0:24:53.760 a dream of being rich. It was pathological. 0:24:55.119 --> 0:25:00.800 Every time he created this persona this person himself so 0:25:00.920 --> 0:25:04.159 hard into it that he then started to believe that 0:25:04.240 --> 0:25:08.320 he was this person. And I do think there's mental 0:25:08.359 --> 0:25:09.280 issues there. 0:25:11.760 --> 0:25:14.840 It's been three years since he met Leo, and Bernie 0:25:14.920 --> 0:25:18.159 still questions Leo's true motivations. 0:25:18.840 --> 0:25:24.879 Was his intention to outright going and commit fraud on 0:25:25.040 --> 0:25:28.560 every single person that he encountered, or was it that 0:25:29.200 --> 0:25:34.119 his world at certain points starts to crumble and he 0:25:34.200 --> 0:25:37.080 has to get what he can do and run to 0:25:37.240 --> 0:25:41.960