Speaker 1: Hey, Betrayal fans, I have exciting news to share. Season
Speaker 1: three of Betrayal is now a docuseries on Hulu. It's
Speaker 1: the gripping story of Stacy Tyler and the doctor who
Speaker 1: betrayed them. See the voices You've come to know in
Speaker 1: Betrayal Under his Eye, streaming now on Hulu.
Speaker 2: Three weeks before he had first messaged me, he had
Speaker 2: actually absconded from prison. He was serving a sentence for
Speaker 2: fraud and he was on the run when he met me.
Speaker 1: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about
Speaker 1: the people we trust the most and the deceptions that
Speaker 1: change everything. Bernie Brown met a man named Leo on Grinder.
Speaker 1: Leo was unlike anyone he'd ever met, intoxicatingly charming, and
Speaker 1: it didn't hurt that he drove a Bentley. After a
Speaker 1: few weeks of dating, Leo revealed that he was actually
Speaker 1: a member of the royal family, and because of that,
Speaker 1: he couldn't come out as gay. His relationship with Bernie
Speaker 1: had to be a secret. Leo's need for privacy became
Speaker 1: even more heightened when he received a terminal cancer diagnosis.
Speaker 1: All the while, Leo kept up his career restoring luxury watches.
Speaker 1: He even made a deal with Bernie to restore a
Speaker 1: Rolex for free. Bernie just had to cover the initial cost.
Speaker 1: To do that. Bernie took out a high interest loan
Speaker 1: to pay for the watch and together they would resell
Speaker 1: it for a profit. But once Bernie transferred the money,
Speaker 1: Leo's communication became more sparse, until one night when Bernie
Speaker 1: got his darycal call from his boyfriend.
Speaker 2: He was like, Bernie, I can't take this life anymore.
Speaker 1: Bernie drove across the country to pick him up.
Speaker 2: He was in tears. He went asleep and I was
Speaker 2: stroking his hair.
Speaker 1: The next morning, Leo made a proposition.
Speaker 2: And it's like, I've got a serious question that I
Speaker 2: need to ask you. I want to move somewhere in Scotland.
Speaker 2: Would you come with me.
Speaker 1: Leo had been looking to buy a castle in the
Speaker 1: Scottish countryside where he could live out the rest of
Speaker 1: his life the way he wanted to with Bernie, and.
Speaker 2: He was like, I want to put an offer in
Speaker 2: and move within the month. I'm just done with all
Speaker 2: of this. I'm like, do you know what, We've got
Speaker 2: one life, Let's do it.
Speaker 1: Leo drove them back to London. It was a five
Speaker 1: hour drive and they spent every minute of it planning
Speaker 1: their new life.
Speaker 2: We had designed this entire life down to the jobs
Speaker 2: we would do, the businesses we would build.
Speaker 1: On their drive, Leo's grandparents called. They were nearby, so
Speaker 1: Leo decided to meet up with them and spend the
Speaker 1: rest of the day with his grandparents. Bernie could drive
Speaker 1: the Bentley back to London, so halfway through their trip,
Speaker 1: Leo pulled off at a gas station where his grandparents
Speaker 1: were waiting. It was the first time Bernie had seen
Speaker 1: anyone in Leo's family. Leo asked Bernie to act like
Speaker 1: they were just friends.
Speaker 2: He went over to this couple they must have been
Speaker 2: in their late sixties, and his granddad went to go
Speaker 2: to the bathroom. So I was like, okay, I need
Speaker 2: to toilet anyway, So I was like, I'll go and
Speaker 2: then I went in and then he came in after me,
Speaker 2: so I was like okay.
Speaker 1: On the way out of the bathroom, Bernie struck up
Speaker 1: a conversation with Leo's granddad and he was like, oh.
Speaker 2: Well, we live in Sussex. That's where the castle was.
Speaker 1: They chatted about life in Sussex, then headed back to
Speaker 1: their cars. Leo went with his grandparents and Bernie drove
Speaker 1: alone back to London. Bernie was excited about starting his
Speaker 1: new life in Scotland, but his financial stress about the
Speaker 1: watch was mounting. It wouldn't be ready to resell in
Speaker 1: time for Bernie's next loan payment.
Speaker 2: I'm panicking now, I'd missed one direct debit. February's was
Speaker 2: coming up, and it still was not happening.
Speaker 1: As the weeks went on, Bernie kept asking his boyfriend
Speaker 1: for an update on the watch.
Speaker 2: The watch is being almost dangled. It's like, oh, I'll
Speaker 2: bring it up, can I I'll come up to yours.
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, fine, I'll bring the watch up.
Speaker 2: He'd get to the house. No watch, Oh I forgot
Speaker 2: I didn't go home yet. For whatever reason, the watch
Speaker 2: would always either be forgotten or once the cleaner accidentally
Speaker 2: moved it and it was lost in the house somewhere,
Speaker 2: so he needs to go back and look for it.
Speaker 1: It was getting absurd that Leo couldn't get the watch
Speaker 1: sorted out. Sure, there was a lot happening in Leo's life,
Speaker 1: but waiting this long was affecting Bernie's there.
Speaker 2: Was something inside that I was questioning a lot more,
Speaker 2: but I was still hooked. I still agreed to go
Speaker 2: to Scotland with him.
Speaker 1: Just weeks before, Leo had needed Bernie to drive through
Speaker 1: the night to be there for him. Leo showed him
Speaker 1: the house he was putting an offer on. Now Bernie
Speaker 1: wasn't even getting a text or a call back for days.
Speaker 2: The gas lighting started. We'd have this call, for instance,
Speaker 2: and what are you doing today, Let's have a call tonight. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: and then we'd have a call arrange something, and then
Speaker 2: he would be like, we didn't arrange it. I was like,
Speaker 2: well we did, because you know, I put it here,
Speaker 2: I put it in my diary. I put it. No,
Speaker 2: we didn't have that conversation.
Speaker 1: Bernie knew that Leo isolated when he was stressed about
Speaker 1: his camp or his family. Bernie wondered if things had
Speaker 1: gotten worse, but all the worrying was starting to take
Speaker 1: a toll on his own health.
Speaker 2: End of January, February and beginning of March was and
Speaker 2: still is, to a degree, a blur. I got into
Speaker 2: the worst state of mind. I had to take time
Speaker 2: off of work for depression I got massively depressed. I
Speaker 2: lost so much weight I didn't eat.
Speaker 1: Bernie knew something was wrong, and he started spiraling.
Speaker 2: Of course, like anyone, I went straight into his seeing
Speaker 2: somebody else mode, somebody else is on the scene, and
Speaker 2: I went into that whole whirlwind. I did then do
Speaker 2: something cheap because I was like, I can't do this normal.
Speaker 2: I literally cannot do this anymore.
Speaker 1: With Leo across the country, Bernie got an idea, what I.
Speaker 2: Think I should download Grinder again. And with Grinder you
Speaker 2: can change location and search for profiles within that location.
Speaker 1: So Bernie created a fake Grinder profile and set it
Speaker 1: to Leo's location.
Speaker 2: Now I knew his type, so I found a decent
Speaker 2: looking ginger guy, put that on my profile, and I
Speaker 2: spent a good day at the location looking through profiles
Speaker 2: that didn't have pictures on Lo and behold, he found
Speaker 2: my profile.
Speaker 1: Leo sent the first message.
Speaker 2: So we're just talking. I'm like, what do you do
Speaker 2: is I'm a horologist, you know, I deal with watches,
Speaker 2: And he went straight into you and I'm a part
Speaker 2: of the Howard family, and then he sent me pictures.
Speaker 2: It was him.
Speaker 1: At the same time, Leo was talking to fake Bernie
Speaker 1: on Grinder. He was avoiding real Bernie's texts.
Speaker 2: He would reply to this person for literally about an hour,
Speaker 2: but I'm getting no reply. So I'm like, do you
Speaker 2: know what I'm done? Now? That's it. I need to
Speaker 2: get this watch and I need to get it soon.
Speaker 2: So I did actually confront him with it, and I
Speaker 2: was like, I know you've been speaking to people, and
Speaker 2: I sent him a screenshot of the profile, and of
Speaker 2: course he was like, how dare you try putting it
Speaker 2: on me? And I was like, I didn't do anything,
Speaker 2: and I was like, you have no right and went
Speaker 2: off on one and I'm like, do you know what,
Speaker 2: it's absolutely fine, just give me the watch. That's when
Speaker 2: he turned nasty. I was like, you're not getting the watch.
Speaker 2: You don't deserve the watch.
Speaker 1: Regardless of Leo's royal status or cancer diagnosis. Bernie wasn't
Speaker 1: going to allow someone to speak to him that way.
Speaker 1: He hung up. Then Leo started blowing up his phone.
Speaker 2: You know, I really love you and all of this
Speaker 2: and what about Scotland.
Speaker 1: Bernie told him he wasn't coming to Scotland. Their relationship
Speaker 1: was over, the only thing he wanted from Leo was
Speaker 1: the watch.
Speaker 2: So he's like, look, I'm going to bring the watch.
Speaker 2: It's finally ready. I was like, oh my god, I'm
Speaker 2: actually going to get this watch now, and he was like,
Speaker 2: I'm going to bring it down.
Speaker 1: They set a time and place to meet.
Speaker 2: He was like, are you're going to be okay seeing me?
Speaker 2: You know it may be a strain, and I'm like, listen,
Speaker 2: I'm sure I'm going to be fine. I just just
Speaker 2: make sure you bring the watch. Turns up, no watch.
Speaker 1: That was the last time they ever spoke.
Speaker 2: I said enough is enough. I'm worth more than this,
Speaker 2: and I blocked his number. I had just been like,
Speaker 2: I'm never getting that watch. I need to deal with
Speaker 2: what I can and this is the position that I'm in.
Speaker 1: Bernie says he was a shell of himself. Over the
Speaker 1: course of nine months, his entire life had been rearranged.
Speaker 1: All of his savings were gone, he had taken out
Speaker 1: loans and max out every credit card he had. It
Speaker 1: left Bernie in a dark place.
Speaker 2: My best friends literally descended on my house and were like,
Speaker 2: we've never seen you like this, and we need to
Speaker 2: pick it up. If I didn't have my friends around
Speaker 2: me at the time, I don't know if I would
Speaker 2: actually be here to this day. I genuinely, genuinely believe.
Speaker 1: That Bernie's friend supported him emotionally, but he was facing
Speaker 1: his financial crisis alone.
Speaker 2: I had to just bow and say I can't afford it. Default,
Speaker 2: and my credit score at one point went from the
Speaker 2: highest it had ever been straight down to zero. I'd
Speaker 2: never even seen zero on a credit score before. I
Speaker 2: was working in retail, and I had all this depth,
Speaker 2: and the debts that were coming out on a monthly
Speaker 2: basis because of everything that happened was higher than my
Speaker 2: entire pay let alone, when you take away bills and
Speaker 2: utilities and all of that.
Speaker 1: Bernie was overwhelmed with shame. He was at risk of
Speaker 1: getting his car repossessed or his wages garnished. He was
Speaker 1: able to make a payment plan, but in the meantime
Speaker 1: he had very little money to live on.
Speaker 2: He didn't take an obscene amount of money from me
Speaker 2: monetary wise, but what he did do was absolutely wipe
Speaker 2: me out. At one point, I didn't have the money
Speaker 2: to go to the shop to buy food. The monetary
Speaker 2: amount for me twenty thousand could have easily been five million.
Speaker 2: It was all that I had to my name to survive.
Speaker 1: Twenty thousand pounds was a drop in the bucket for Leo.
Speaker 1: After all, his family lived in a historic castle. He
Speaker 1: drove a Bentley. But twenty thousand pounds was everything to Bernie,
Speaker 1: and Leo knew that.
Speaker 2: I've reminded him time and time again. He knew exactly
Speaker 2: what my financial background was, what my current financial situation was.
Speaker 2: He knew about all of that, but he still pushed
Speaker 2: to take them credit cards. He knew all of that
Speaker 2: was coming, and I reminded him many times, every single day,
Speaker 2: almost that this is hitting. He absolutely did not care.
Speaker 1: Slowly, Bernie came to terms with his financial reality. He
Speaker 1: continued leaning on his friends for emotional support. That's when
Speaker 1: one of his friends said something he hadn't considered before.
Speaker 1: This was theft he'd been robbed.
Speaker 2: She was like, he's going to carry on doing it
Speaker 2: to other people until somebody actually puts a stop to it.
Speaker 2: At that point, I decided that actually I will contact
Speaker 2: the police because this isn't right.
Speaker 1: Bernie walked into the police station and filed a report.
Speaker 2: They did take it seriously. I gave everything I had
Speaker 2: to them, and they had absolutely no idea who this person.
Speaker 1: Was according to the police database, Leo Howard didn't exist.
Speaker 2: I emailed Arundel Castle, which is the official residence of
Speaker 2: the Duke of Norfolk, and there was absolutely no record
Speaker 2: of Leo Howard, Leo Bose Howard, or absolutely anything. So
Speaker 2: then I started doing my own research, but there was
Speaker 2: absolutely no trace.
Speaker 1: Bernie knew the VIN numbers to Leo's Range, Rover and Bentley.
Speaker 2: All of the car registration numbers had completely been erased,
Speaker 2: which is very hard to do. I don't know how
Speaker 2: that's possible.
Speaker 1: The VIN numbers weren't listed on any database. It was
Speaker 1: like the cars never existed. But Bernie remembered riding in
Speaker 1: those cars, driving those cars. It was all so strange.
Speaker 1: He was starting to wonder what was even real.
Speaker 2: It was as if I had completely imagined the entire year,
Speaker 2: completely imagined it, because this person just did not exist.
Speaker 1: Leo had vanished into thin air. Even the police had
Speaker 1: hit a dead end.
Speaker 2: The police could not recognize his picture. They had to
Speaker 2: just close the investigation. It must have been a good
Speaker 2: year later and I get a call when it comes
Speaker 2: up and it's the police officer that was originally dealing
Speaker 2: with the case. Then I answered and there was a
Speaker 2: nice of tears. You know, how are you? And then
Speaker 2: he said, do you watch Channel four? And I said,
Speaker 2: to be honest, no, And he said, right, okay, there's
Speaker 2: this documentary that's just been shown on Channel four and
Speaker 2: from that I've been given a case. And he said,
Speaker 2: everything that's been described in the case and on the
Speaker 2: documentary is almost identical to my story.
Speaker 1: Bernie had no idea that across the country other people
Speaker 1: had been reporting a very similar crime to the police.
Speaker 1: A broader case was developing. In fact, the story was
Speaker 1: already out as a true crime documentary. It was about
Speaker 1: a prolific and highly manipulative scam artist operating all over
Speaker 1: the UK. The detective calling wanted to know if Bernie
Speaker 1: recognized the man at the center of it.
Speaker 2: He said, can you just google and have a look.
Speaker 2: As soon as he said that, I had that sinking feeling.
Speaker 2: My heart dropped to the ground. I knew it would
Speaker 2: be him. My hands started shaking, and my brain when
Speaker 2: complete depletely dead on just how to google something. But
Speaker 2: I managed it. I got there and it was his face.
Speaker 1: A year after Bernie first went to the police, he
Speaker 1: got a call from a detective. They linked his report
Speaker 1: to a serial fraudster, someone who'd been conning men and
Speaker 1: women across the UK with the same mix of charm,
Speaker 1: money and elaborate lies.
Speaker 2: There was a lot of press around it, and I
Speaker 2: broke down. I absolutely broke down in tears.
Speaker 1: The story had exploded. Leo's face was all over the news.
Speaker 1: After Bernie got over the initial shock, a new feeling
Speaker 1: flooded in.
Speaker 2: The wave of relief. Now I have proof that it happens, because,
Speaker 2: bearing in mind at that point, the only person who
Speaker 2: had ever met him was my best friend. We went
Speaker 2: out for one night. Apart from that, he didn't want
Speaker 2: to meet anyone. He didn't want to be photographed anyone
Speaker 2: that I told this story to. There was always, i'm sure,
Speaker 2: an element of doubt because it was so extraordinary to
Speaker 2: happen to me or to anyone. When I saw this,
Speaker 2: it was that feeling, that overwhelming, almost joyous feeling of
Speaker 2: I told you this did happen.
Speaker 1: There were dozens of articles Bernie clicked on. One about
Speaker 1: a woman who discovered her fiance was a fraud. He
Speaker 1: built a five year relationship in order to scam her
Speaker 1: out of thirty thousand pounds.
Speaker 2: I read the article and everything that happened to me
Speaker 2: had happened to her.
Speaker 1: Bernie knew that the documentary might hold answers to as
Speaker 1: many unanswered questions about Leo.
Speaker 2: We sat down and we watched it, and as soon
Speaker 2: as I press play, it starts with his face again.
Speaker 2: I got that sinking feeling. It was surreal.
Speaker 1: Scene after scene, Bernie realized he'd lived the same exact
Speaker 1: moments with the same con man. The luxury watch business
Speaker 1: a scam, the cancer diagnosis fake.
Speaker 2: I'm heightened at that point, and the Bentley came up
Speaker 2: and I was like, that's that was the Bentley and
Speaker 2: the watch that I was handling, and the watch that
Speaker 2: I was supposed to be buying was actually in the documentary,
Speaker 2: just even little parts of the story. I was like, yes,
Speaker 2: he told me.
Speaker 1: That, even though it was someone else's story, it was
Speaker 1: like watching his own true crime documentary. Andy learned Leo
Speaker 1: had a dozen aliases.
Speaker 2: After the documentary, I did get emotional because I think
Speaker 2: that then sunk in exactly the severity of what was happening.
Speaker 2: I was just a number at that point. Straight Away,
Speaker 2: I found the woman in the documentary on social media
Speaker 2: and connected and I remember The first message was like,
Speaker 2: you don't know me. I've just seen your documentary and
Speaker 2: I met him such and such date. She came back
Speaker 2: and we had a few telephone conversations.
Speaker 1: They had so much in common. This other victim helped
Speaker 1: Bernie fill in the gaps in his knowledge and pieced
Speaker 1: together a timeline. Most shocking of all, he learned.
Speaker 2: Three weeks before he had messaged me, he had actually
Speaker 2: absconded from prison. He was serving a sentence for fraud
Speaker 2: and he was on the run when he met me.
Speaker 1: Looking back, this explained something about Leo's behavior, how he
Speaker 1: was always nervous around the police.
Speaker 2: He never really liked the police. He was kind of
Speaker 2: scared of the police, to the point he would wait
Speaker 2: around the corner if there was police cars from driving past.
Speaker 2: He was scared.
Speaker 1: When Bernie met Leo. He wasn't in that campground because
Speaker 1: it was the only place he could be himself. He
Speaker 1: was there because he was in hiding. Leo had escaped
Speaker 1: while he was serving a five year prison sentence for
Speaker 1: defrauding another victim, and there were many more. He had
Speaker 1: victims across England.
Speaker 2: There was me and one other person in the north
Speaker 2: of London, all the other victims were in the south
Speaker 2: of England, in Kent, in Sussex. The person that was
Speaker 2: in the documentary was in the Isle of Wight when
Speaker 2: he escaped from prison. He had then obviously traveled and
Speaker 2: he was in hiding.
Speaker 1: What was so chilling to Bernie was that the.
Speaker 2: Time the documentary was being filmed was when I was
Speaker 2: with him.
Speaker 1: And Bernie wasn't the only person Leo was scamming while
Speaker 1: he was on the run. Remember Leo's grandparents, who Bernie
Speaker 1: met at the gas station.
Speaker 2: I told the police my story and I said, look,
Speaker 2: I came into contact with his nana grandad. They're like, no,
Speaker 2: that was another victim. I was like, wow, he was
Speaker 2: doing exactly the same to them.
Speaker 1: If Leo stayed behind bars, many people wouldn't have been victimized.
Speaker 1: He was a fugitive. The police were looking for him.
Speaker 1: But the problem was the police weren't as savvy as Leo.
Speaker 2: Now, we do have a national database which comes up,
Speaker 2: but they didn't put him on that. So all the
Speaker 2: time that I was with him, there were actually campaigns
Speaker 2: to find this person. However, the police don't talk to
Speaker 2: each other over here, and when I had raised my case.
Speaker 2: They had no idea who it was until the documentary
Speaker 2: came out.
Speaker 1: That's when police stations across the country started connecting the dots.
Speaker 2: Channel four had done so many press releases that it
Speaker 2: really got the national scope. And I think we're on
Speaker 2: about ten people that have come forward and raised a case.
Speaker 2: Because of the heightened press and because all of this
Speaker 2: was going around, he decided to hand himself in.
Speaker 1: Leo was sent back to prison and Bernie hoped justice
Speaker 1: would finally be served.
Speaker 2: But he still qualified for early release. The mind boggles,
Speaker 2: But that's where we are and that's what we have
Speaker 2: to deal with, and that's what we are currently facing.
Speaker 1: Through this whole process, Bernie was able to get a
Speaker 1: true understanding of who this man really was. He even
Speaker 1: heard from people who knew the real Leo before he
Speaker 1: became a criminal.
Speaker 2: I've had so many messages over social media and TikTok
Speaker 2: where people have gone to school with him, and he
Speaker 2: used to make up stories to get people in trouble.
Speaker 2: He naturally gravitated towards fraud from a very very early age.
Speaker 2: His background is so far from the royal family it's unbelievable.
Speaker 2: From my knowledge, he is Polish heritage, very broken upbringing,
Speaker 2: and he, in all intents and purposes, created his own
Speaker 2: system to survive. And his system was to fraudulently gain
Speaker 2: money from anywhere he could to create the life that
Speaker 2: he saw himself and that he wanted.
Speaker 1: And the life he wanted was one where he was wealthy,
Speaker 1: powerful and important.
Speaker 2: He wanted to be part of the royal family setting,
Speaker 2: and he believed that he was destined for more. He
Speaker 2: had created his own reality, and I think the longer
Speaker 2: he believed it, the more he believed it.
Speaker 1: Creating a string of fraudulent identities was more than just
Speaker 1: a dream of being rich. It was pathological.
Speaker 2: Every time he created this persona this person himself so
Speaker 2: hard into it that he then started to believe that
Speaker 2: he was this person. And I do think there's mental
Speaker 2: issues there.
Speaker 1: It's been three years since he met Leo, and Bernie
Speaker 1: still questions Leo's true motivations.
Speaker 2: Was his intention to outright going and commit fraud on
Speaker 2: every single person that he encountered, or was it that
Speaker 2: his world at certain points starts to crumble and he
Speaker 2: has to get what he can do and run to
Speaker 2: create another life for himself. That other life that he's
Speaker 2: built up that is then crumbling.
Speaker 1: He got back to their first date when he was
Speaker 1: asked to take off his clothes. Was that a test?
Speaker 1: Was it blackmail?
Speaker 2: I've tried going back and be like, what did happen?
Speaker 2: Why did it happen? I have absolutely no idea, but
Speaker 2: I know it comes down to control.
Speaker 1: After having his heart broken and his own financial stability destroyed,
Speaker 1: Bernie learned who Leo truly was. He was left picking
Speaker 1: up the pieces in the aftermath.
Speaker 2: I don't know whether this is still my subconscious emotional tie,
Speaker 2: but I think there is an element that he had
Speaker 2: gone through so much and then he met me, and
Speaker 2: he had said many times that he was gay, he
Speaker 2: just couldn't be out. And I do believe that there's
Speaker 2: an element that I wasn't his typical target, and he
Speaker 2: wasn't there initially for money, and I do believe at
Speaker 2: some point he did get emotionally connected, because going after
Speaker 2: me for money wouldn't have made any sense.
Speaker 1: Bernie still wonders if that dream of going to Scotland
Speaker 1: together was a genuine offer to run away together.
Speaker 2: At some point, I do believe that he thought that
Speaker 2: he could get away from it all and escape with
Speaker 2: me and live that life that he had in his
Speaker 2: mind at the time. And I think potentially, once it
Speaker 2: started getting a bit too real with me, that's when
Speaker 2: he went into what I would call default mode. And
Speaker 2: that's when the watch came. Because the watch conversation came
Speaker 2: very very late in the day and then it ended
Speaker 2: very very quick because he had to have a new
Speaker 2: supply and obviously he couldn't leave empty handed.
Speaker 1: Bernie's right, Leo never left empty handed. In fact, he
Speaker 1: was running a major fraud scheme and the watches were
Speaker 1: at the center of it.
Speaker 2: Some businesses have come forward and said that that person
Speaker 2: had sold them a fake watch, and bear in mind,
Speaker 2: these are big companies. They know how to evaluate watches.
Speaker 1: As more information came out, he learned that Leo defrauded
Speaker 1: Herod's department store out of a half a million pounds.
Speaker 1: It was all part of Leo's scam.
Speaker 2: He was on top of his game with regards to
Speaker 2: watches that he knew how to see a fake, a
Speaker 2: very good fake, and improve it to the level that
Speaker 2: it was a very convincing actual piece. He scams half
Speaker 2: a million pounds out of Harold's Like you are a
Speaker 2: different level, a completely different level when you can do that.
Speaker 2: The knowledge that Leo had on watches, watched brands, the mechanics,
Speaker 2: the mechanical workings. There's no doubt in my mind he
Speaker 2: has studied watches for a long time.
Speaker 1: Leo also knew cars. He scammed Bentley dealerships and financial institutions.
Speaker 1: He always had multiple scams going at once.
Speaker 2: Absolutely the mind boggles. I do not understand that.
Speaker 1: In February twenty twenty five, Leo was sentenced to ten
Speaker 1: months in prison for having absconded from his original fraud
Speaker 1: conviction and five year sentence. It's unclear whether he will
Speaker 1: be criminally charged with respect to his conduct. While he
Speaker 1: was on the run, Bernie took to TikTok, where he
Speaker 1: shared his story. Through that experience, he has found language
Speaker 1: to describe Leo and what he did.
Speaker 2: TikTok was instrumental in me healing and starting that healing process.
Speaker 2: Somebody had commented on one of my posts and I
Speaker 2: went onto their profile and they talk about narcissist and
Speaker 2: narcissistic behavior, everything from the signs to the results of
Speaker 2: what it actually does to you for the long term,
Speaker 2: and instantly I was like this is exactly what he
Speaker 2: was doing. With the amount of gaslighting, love bombing, breadcrumbing,
Speaker 2: you get so heavily sucked in that it does actually
Speaker 2: change your makeup and it changes the way you think.
Speaker 2: If you said in six months time, somebody is going
Speaker 2: to be in your life and you are going to
Speaker 2: be hanging on every word. You're not going to speak
Speaker 2: to your friends, you're not going to speak to your family,
Speaker 2: You're going to doubt everything that you say. I would
Speaker 2: literally have a laugh and say, carry on drinking. It
Speaker 2: would never happen to me, but it did.
Speaker 1: We'll carry the experience with him for the rest of
Speaker 1: his life.
Speaker 2: Your trust in other people after this is almost nonexistent.
Speaker 1: He lost a lot, But now Bernie is focused on
Speaker 1: what he does have.
Speaker 2: I have a beautiful soon to be a husband, and
Speaker 2: I've got a little puppy, and I've got amazing friends
Speaker 2: and family and actually neighbors. So I'm content. He will
Speaker 2: never ever in his life have what I have. Sat
Speaker 2: in this chair now and I think that's just incredibly sad.
Speaker 2: I don't hate him. I don't think too much other
Speaker 2: than just sadness.
Speaker 1: Bernie wants to be a resource for other people who've
Speaker 1: been victims of scam artists and narcissists, and the best
Speaker 1: way for him to do that is on his TikTok
Speaker 1: at Berniet Brown.
Speaker 2: When I went on and I saw the tiktoks around
Speaker 2: narcissism and around the discard, the gas lighting, all of that,
Speaker 2: that for me was just the awakening moment. Now I
Speaker 2: can do that for somebody else out there, and it
Speaker 2: does take a little bit of courage, especially if you're
Speaker 2: going through it or you are very fresh from a
Speaker 2: narcissistic encounter. I just want to be that point of
Speaker 2: call and be able to just listen.
Speaker 1: We end every weekly episode with the same question, why
Speaker 1: do you want to share your story?
Speaker 2: I know for a fact that there's thousands of leos
Speaker 2: around the world. That's why this conversation, I think is massively,
Speaker 2: massively important. You know, if I'd have known about certain
Speaker 2: things beforehand, maybe i'd have acted differently. Maybe I would't
Speaker 2: have gone through what I'd have gone through. Maybe I'd
Speaker 2: have acted differently halfway through and I wouldn't have suffered
Speaker 2: as much. But you know, what's happened to me is done.
Speaker 2: But if I can share and open somebody else's eyes,
Speaker 2: and say, you know, if this ain't right, then it's
Speaker 2: worth it.
Speaker 1: On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly is.
Speaker 3: Like, fine, I just want you to know if you
Speaker 3: continue down this path, I will take every single cent
Speaker 3: I have and every single cent you have, and I
Speaker 3: will spend it burning you to the ground.
Speaker 1: If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal
Speaker 1: team or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email
Speaker 1: us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com, or follow us on Instagram at
Speaker 1: Betrayal Pod. You can also connect with me on Instagram
Speaker 1: at It's Andrea Gunning. To access our newsletter, view additional content,
Speaker 1: and connect with the Betrayal community, join our substack at
Speaker 1: Betrayal dot substack dot com. We're grateful for your support.
Speaker 1: One way to show support is by subscribing to our
Speaker 1: show on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate and
Speaker 1: review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A
Speaker 1: big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is
Speaker 1: a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment
Speaker 1: Group and partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive
Speaker 1: produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason. Hosted and produced
Speaker 1: by me Andrea Gunning, Written and produced by Olivia Hewitt
Speaker 1: and Monique Leboard, also produced by Ben Fetterman. Casting support
Speaker 1: from Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and
Speaker 1: Jessica Krincheck. Audio editing and mixing by Matt del Vicio.
Speaker 1: Additional audio editing by Tanner Robbins. Betrayal's theme composed by
Speaker 1: Oliver Bain's music library provided by my Music And. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts,