1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M Hello, 4 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 5 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: name is They called me Ben. We are joined with 6 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,959 Speaker 1: our super producer, Paul Mission controlled decade. Most importantly, you 7 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,279 Speaker 1: are you. You are here that makes this stuff they 8 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. Gentlemen, we are at the 9 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: end of the year, and today we are talking about 10 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: the end of the world. Yes, how humanity shall perhaps Yes, 11 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: and we you know, do a better job and fix things. Yeah. Yeah, sure, 12 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: we're gonna be able to fix it. Now. We are 13 00:00:54,720 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: not confronting uh, these existential threats alone. Today we are 14 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: joined with an expert and a friend of the show, 15 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: longtime friend of ours both on and off the air. 16 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: He's kind of like our big brother in a way 17 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: friends and neighbors. Uh, Josh Clark, Hey, guys, hey man, 18 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 1: thank you for having me on. I've always thought of 19 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: you as a bit of a big brother figure. Kind 20 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: of feel like you're always watching. Like that's a little 21 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: more my style for sure, Like, hey, you can do it. 22 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: Kind of well, in my mind, it's more of watching 23 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: you walk and then trying to find a way to 24 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: fit in those footsteps, at least in some small way 25 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: like matches gate like kind of like yeah, yeah, really 26 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: just try And that explains so much. My gate is 27 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: more of like a um it's kind of like a 28 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: speedwalk slash jazzer sized cross things. So it's tough to replicate. Mat. 29 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: I've seen you try and I think it's adorable. So 30 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: so hopefully, hopefully, Matt, you will have some time to 31 00:01:55,120 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: perfect that gate. And that leads us to the big question, Josh. 32 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: You recently created a podcast called The End of the World, 33 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: and one of the questions that a lot of people 34 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: have when we talk about the end of the world 35 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,519 Speaker 1: is really a question of timeline. You know, tick tick 36 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: tick tick. How much time does Matt Frederick have to 37 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: practice his gait? Matt, I would give you one to 38 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: two centuries tops, whoa which which sounds like a lot 39 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: of time. It does You're You're like, well, I'll be 40 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: long in the grave most likely, although I don't know 41 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: you might live to a substantial portion of that. But 42 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: if you step back and think, what about the children, 43 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: what about the grandchildren, what about the future humans who 44 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: will will come down the line over the next hundred 45 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: two hundred years. And then if you look beyond that 46 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: and really take a step back and look at just 47 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: how long some people expect humanity to continue on into 48 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: the billions of years, all of a sudden, the idea 49 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: of going extinct in the next hundred to two hundred 50 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: years suddenly becomes really um terrifying and scary. If you 51 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: can kind of step outside of yourself, well quickly, let's 52 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: just get kind of an idea of what happens if 53 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 1: humanity just does great. We don't we don't kill ourselves off, 54 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: some giant external thing doesn't wipe humanity out. That billion 55 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 1: years that you talked about for humanity is is that 56 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 1: cut off date when the Sun essentially creates um all 57 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: death everywhere in our solar system? Right, Yeah, Yeah, that's 58 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: a that's a thing for sure. Um. A lot of 59 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: people say, if humanity didn't do anything, just kept plotting 60 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: along and rather than doing everything right, we just kind 61 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: of got lucky at every possible break. Um, a billion 62 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: years is about how long we would last, because that's 63 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: about how long the Earth will last in its place 64 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: in the Solar system. The Sun is gonna grow and 65 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: it will eventually um basically swallow the Earth just totally 66 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: subsume it, trying everything. Yes, it's gonna it'll be bad 67 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: news for the Earth. But we've got a good billion 68 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: years and we can have a lot of fun and 69 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: do a lot of cool stuff in a billion years. 70 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: That's the low end, right, that's if we do nothing 71 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: but just hang around on Earth. But the people are 72 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: kind of dumb, you can make that case, it's true. 73 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: But but there's also a lot of hope to future ingenuity. 74 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: And then also I think, um, as far as dumbness 75 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: goes contemporarily, um, it's more complacency than than being dumb, 76 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. It's almost like there's some 77 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: weird death cult mentality among a lot of people on 78 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: Earth where it's just like, if humanity goes extinct, that's 79 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: just what happens. Maybe we deserve it, which drives me 80 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: bananas that that sentiment, that idea that maybe humanity deserves 81 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: to go extinct. We've screwed it up for so long. 82 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 1: Maybe this is what we have coming. And I disagree 83 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: with that tremendously. Um. But but some experts say, okay, uh, 84 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: if we if we continue on like being humans and 85 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: the kind of humans that we are at this point, um, 86 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: we're probably going to do some pretty interesting things like 87 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: get off of Earth in the near future. Actually maybe 88 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: a hundred years, maybe two hundred years, maybe five years, 89 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: even if it's a thousand years, that's plenty of time 90 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: for us to just basically be like Audios Earth, that 91 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: was nice. Or if you're starting to look into like 92 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 1: the millions of years and all the things we could 93 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: possibly do, maybe we can move Earth, or maybe we 94 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: can prevent the Sun from growing, because actually what it's 95 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,119 Speaker 1: doing is burning the last of its fuel. There's plenty 96 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: of ways we could make the Sun burn more efficiently 97 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: and extend its life by billions of years and then 98 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: save Earth in the process. There's a lot of stuff 99 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 1: we could be doing. So when you start to look 100 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: into that, then you begin to run into the the 101 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 1: top limit for humanities. Um lifetime lifespan into the billions 102 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: and billions and billions of years, possibly to the heat 103 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: death of the universe, which is untold billions of years 104 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 1: away into the future. That's the final end of the franchise, right, 105 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,679 Speaker 1: not necessarily not necessarily, because one thing I came across, 106 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: and it's kind of comes in at the end of 107 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: the Physics episode is we are starting to figure out 108 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: how we could theoretically create lab grown universes. So who 109 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 1: knows what, maybe we can learn to grow universes and 110 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: when this one is starting to wind down, we can 111 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: be like, oh, well, we're gonna move over here into 112 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: this fresh new universe, and then that extends it indefinitely, 113 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: humanity's lifespan indefinitely. So when you take all of this 114 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: into account, all of the possibility that we have laying 115 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: out ahead of us, it's really unnerving to think that 116 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: those of us alive today have the weight of all 117 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: that on our shoulders. It's up to us to save 118 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: that future for the rest of humanity to come. And 119 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: that's the stakes right now. So let's put we've got 120 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: the context in terms of timeline here, let's look at 121 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: the basic, the bare bones definitions. The end of the 122 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: world deals with the phrase that we mentioned earlier in 123 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: the show, existential risk. What for for audience, what is 124 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: an existential risk? And are some more let's see, more 125 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 1: imminent than others? So um, great question, Um, existential risks 126 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: are something that have been around for a very long time. 127 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: We've lived under like natural existential risks like the Sun 128 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: growing and overwhelming Earth and burning into a crisp. That's 129 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: a natural existential risk. And existential risk is uh, anything 130 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: that can wipe out humanity forever, like we're just gone, 131 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: there's no more humans left, or the humans that are 132 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: left can never get back to whatever place in history 133 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: that we fell from. That's an existential risk. And there's 134 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: this guy over in Oxford, uh, the Oxford University, who 135 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: spends his time thinking about these things and is assembled 136 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: this basically like super team of thinkers who are all 137 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: thinking about what to do about existential risks, what existential 138 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: risks were not thinking about, and then what to do 139 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: if we do manage to pass these existential risks that 140 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: are coming our way, um and of into the billions 141 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: of years, all the amazing things we could do so um. 142 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: The guy's name is Nick Bostrom, and the center that 143 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: he founded is called the Future of Humanity Institute. And 144 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: they're not the only group thinking about this, but um, 145 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: they're kind of like the O G group who started 146 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: thinking about these things. And Nick Bostrom is kind of 147 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: widely viewed as basically the father of the field of 148 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: existential risk mitigation um and and he really kind of 149 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: took some disparate thoughts that guys like Derek Parfitt and 150 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,319 Speaker 1: um Carl Sagan had backing about the eighties and put 151 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: him together into like a genuine, refined philosophy that's basically 152 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: based on we need to do something pretty soon or 153 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: we've were we probably aren't going to make it talk talk, Yeah, 154 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: that's true. That's my question though, like, is our existential 155 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: risks inherently something that's external to our actions as humans 156 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,479 Speaker 1: on the planet of things that we do that could potentially, 157 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: you know, cause us to not exist as a species, 158 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: like no climate change and things like that that like 159 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: impacts that we have on the planet. Or is it 160 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: all about like things that are beyond our control, that 161 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: are bigger than us that we are. It's it's both, 162 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: for sure, um And. So there's there's natural existential risks 163 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: like the Sun growing an asteroid like the kind that 164 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: took out the dinosaurs, wiping it out, wiping us out. Um. 165 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: Those we can't do a whole lot about. Now, we 166 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: can all imagine a time like maybe a few decades 167 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: from now where we can direct redirect the course of 168 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: like an asteroid that could be colliding with Earth. Right, 169 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: but right now we can't do anything about the natural risks, 170 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: the ones we can do something about our anthropogenic existential risks, 171 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: which are human made existential risks. And um, we have 172 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: a few of those coming down the pike coming our way. Um. 173 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: There is artificial intelligence is a big one. Another one 174 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: is physics. Uh. Surprisingly high energy physics experiments may or 175 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 1: may not pose an existential risk. But if some of 176 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: the um, some of the theories of wantum gravity that 177 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:05,559 Speaker 1: that seek to move Mary's stay the standard model with relativity, 178 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: if some of those are right, then actually, yes, these 179 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: physics experiments are quite dangerous that we're doing right now. Um. 180 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: And then biotechnology is another big one. And there's some 181 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 1: other ones too, like nanotech could conceivably be an existential 182 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: risk to us, and all of these things. As we're 183 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: starting to wake up to the concept of existential risks, 184 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: as our field of vision is kind of coming into focus, um, 185 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: we're suddenly recognizing like, oh, there's one. Oh, there's another one. 186 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: Oh there's one. Oh, oh jeez, there's another one. Right there, 187 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: and they're starting to come our way, and very few 188 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: people are paying attention to him. That's really the alarming 189 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: part of the whole thing, isn't It also mentioned earlier 190 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: that it's a situation um rooted in apathy for a 191 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: lot of people. But one of the questions people will 192 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: have when they hear this is if we're talking about 193 00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: a global existential risk, if we're talking about not just 194 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: a risk, a threat that's bigger than an individual's action, 195 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: how would people mitigate something global? Like how how Let's 196 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: say my name is um, Dave Everyman and I'm listening 197 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: here in Manitoba for some reason, and I say, man, 198 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: the wild animals are dying at this incredibly cartoonist rate, 199 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: which will topple the ecosystem right in the food change. 200 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 1: But what can I do? I'm just Dave Everyman. So 201 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: first of all, I was wondering when it was going 202 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: to get crazy, And now that Dave every Man has 203 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: made an appearance, it's quite obvious it just happened. Um. 204 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: So that kind of ties into something you said earlier. 205 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: All that you were asking about was like climate change 206 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: is you know, the climate change actually doesn't necessarily count 207 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: as an existential risk as bad as it would be now, 208 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: it would for plenty of species that will be affected 209 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 1: and wiped out. Like it's starting to look like coral 210 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: Um climate change is going to be an existential threat 211 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: to coral Um or it is already, but to humans. 212 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: And that's the thing, like we I really want to 213 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: to focus this in, Like I'm talking about humans when 214 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: I'm talking about existential risks in the entire series, it's 215 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: all about things that can wipe out humanity, but existential 216 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: risks exist for basically any living thing on Earth. Um. 217 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,319 Speaker 1: And it turns out from what I saw, something kind 218 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: of came up is humans are actually an existential threat 219 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: to just about everything else on Earth, right, And I 220 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: think kind of part and parcel to us saving ourselves 221 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: and saving the world, right, UM is at the same 222 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: time simultaneously learning that UM kind of being at the 223 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: top of the food chain, being Dave, everyman who has 224 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: the ability to think an act about this kind of stuff, 225 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: that that makes us stewards for the rest of the planet. So, 226 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,959 Speaker 1: even if climate change is not an existential threat to humans, 227 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: which it seems like it's not, from taking on existential risks, 228 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: I'm taking on existential threats. We should, in my opinion, 229 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: kind of change our mentality, whether we like it or not, 230 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: whether we're trying to or not. Are though our outlook 231 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: would change, and I think that things like climate change 232 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: would be mitigated. And and this idea that Dave Everyman 233 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: can't do anything to help, that sense of hopelessness, that 234 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: just kind of presses all of us, you know, down 235 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: into our couches and and into this funk. That kind 236 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: of thing will will go away. And the reason why 237 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: it will go away, the reason why we can do anything, 238 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: why Dave every Man can do anything at all, um, 239 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: is because it turns out no one at the top 240 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: is doing anything. I talked to this philosopher named Toby 241 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: Ord who's one of the guys that the Future of 242 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: Humanity Institute, and he has spoken to people in the 243 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 1: highest echelance of government about this. One of the things 244 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: they do is just try to like warn people, including government, 245 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: and say, hey, you're a policymaker, Um, they're not designing 246 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: AI very well right now, and one of them could 247 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: get out of control and take over the world. What 248 00:13:58,360 --> 00:13:59,719 Speaker 1: do you think about that? What are you guys doing 249 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: about that? Well, you know that's really kind of above 250 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: my pay grade. I'm sure someone else is handling this, 251 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: and Toby or is like, there's nobody above your pay grade, 252 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: Like it's up to you. Guys. If you're not doing anything, 253 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: then that means no one's doing anything. Well, yeah, they're 254 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: they're stuck in like a cycle of elections, right, That's yeah, 255 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: that's that's a big part of the problem as as 256 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: far as like leadership goes, is a is you know, 257 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: not just with existential risk, but basically any large project, 258 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: any long term thing. That's one of the things that 259 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: climate change is running run up into. But it's politicized too, 260 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: so it's like literally you're appealing to a particular base 261 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: by choosing to say something is not really a problem 262 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: or ignoring it. That's almost like a power move. I 263 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: say this isn't really happening. I know, because I'm in 264 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: charge or I'm the smartest guy in the room, and 265 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: I ignore all these other people that are saying that 266 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: it is, you know what I mean, Like, it's not 267 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: it's not it's almost ignorance as a like a move 268 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: kind of you know, it's like and it's a disdain 269 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: for expertise to I think it's a really popular thing 270 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: right now, and that kind of ties into that whole 271 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: death cult thing that bothers me so much. You know, 272 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: it's it's like, you're a scientist, I don't care, you know, 273 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: get out of my face, egghead, I don't care about 274 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: the climate. Um. That's just kind of a sentiment, just 275 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: a feeling. That's not the entire zeite, guys, but it's 276 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: definitely a part of the zeit guys right now for sure. 277 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: It's almost like we don't have that much time anyway, 278 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: So let's just get the most out of it that 279 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: we can in the short time we have, not really 280 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: worry about the next part. You know, it's basically like 281 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: the disco era took over the entire world. You know, 282 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: that's kind of what it feels like. So we'll pause 283 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: here and continue after a word from our sponsor. Here's 284 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: the question. Here's the turn for our show, because now 285 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: we're talking about will fill ignorance or anti intellectualism and 286 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: and all these other um, all these other flavors of 287 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: governance and society, right or the problematic flavors. Is there, 288 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: to your knowledge, any sort of cover up or conspiratorial 289 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: events surrounding any of these existential risk you knew you 290 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: knew we were going to ask this. I was hoping, 291 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: but I think I prematurely caught the where it got 292 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: crazy with the Dave every Man thing. Okay, but I 293 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: really appreciate you doubling down on Dave every Well. I 294 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: think I quadrupled down on Dave every Man. Um, and 295 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: it's pronounced every Man, the British pronouncing and say, okay, gotcha. 296 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: Now now I know exactly who you're talking about. Um 297 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: so uh, I am quite sure that there have been 298 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: I don't think that there are in necessarily in fields 299 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: of like AI. I know that the physics community is 300 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: actually quite the opposite of that. They the people at 301 00:16:55,760 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: certain in particular, have been working over time while also 302 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: simultaneously bending over backwards to show that the large had 303 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 1: run collider is safe. But the thing that made that episode, 304 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: the physics episode, the most interesting to me is um 305 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 1: a lot of the suggestions that it might not be 306 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: safe or coming from physicists. It's not from just external 307 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 1: you know, guys who who you know declared their own 308 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: patch of land in Nevada Country or anything like that. 309 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: It's like actual physicists who work with particle colliders who 310 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: work in theory um. And also I didn't mean to 311 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: denigrate a lot of the demographic just now um that 312 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,199 Speaker 1: that they they are the they are the people who 313 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 1: are kind of raising the alarm on particle colliders possibly 314 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: creating microscopic bike holes and that kind of thing. So 315 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 1: if I had to zero in on one group where 316 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: there was, if not necessarily like conspiratorial cover ups, at 317 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 1: the very least a lot of kind of brushing stuff 318 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: under the rug, it would be the biotech field for sure. 319 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 1: For sure, the level of recklessness and um accident proneness, 320 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:10,959 Speaker 1: I guess is a terrible way to put it, that 321 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: comes out of the biotech field, and certainly not the 322 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: entire biotech field. There's plenty of people in the biotech field, 323 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 1: and I would say the vast majority of the biotech 324 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: field is very, very careful. But the problem with biotech 325 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: is that even if you are careful, accidents still happen. 326 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: And if you go back and you look at the statistics, um, 327 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:32,360 Speaker 1: not even statistics like actual numbers of of like accidental 328 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: releases of deadly deadly pathogens from labs into the great 329 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: wide world just over a very short time, we're talking 330 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of them. And the thing that bothers 331 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: me the most about biotech when I researched this, I 332 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: started to get like kind of mad, like this this 333 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 1: angers me. That there's this field and no one. I 334 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: can't say no one, but very few people and certainly 335 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 1: not enough people are paying attention to and regulating the 336 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 1: biotech field. There are some really reckless experiments that are 337 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: being carried out, and there just a small fraction of 338 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: labs in the world are required to report accidents even 339 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: let alone what they're doing or what kind of experiments 340 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: to carrying out accidents, like meaning a deadly pathogen made 341 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: it out in the skin of a lab worker who 342 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: didn't realize it and it started to kind of spread 343 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: or whatever. You don't like. If you were a um 344 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: a private corporate lab working in the biotech field, and 345 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: an accident happens, you don't have to tell anybody about it. 346 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: You don't have to tell a single soul. You have 347 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: to be funded by the National Institutes of Health in 348 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: the United States or be affiliated with a lab in 349 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 1: the United States funded by the National Institutes of Health 350 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,239 Speaker 1: to be required to report accidents. So of the like 351 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: six D and fifty accidental releases between I think two 352 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: thousand four and two maybe the as we're specifically accidents 353 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: reported by labs that are funded by the n N 354 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: i H. That's it. There are so many more labs 355 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: BSL three and four labs. Those are the most um, 356 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: the the most secure labs, but that means that they're 357 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: also the ones who are working with the deadliest pathogens. 358 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: There are so many of those in the world, and 359 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,199 Speaker 1: it's become such a like a cool thing to be 360 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: a corporation or like a university or uh to have 361 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: a bs L three or four lab. No one has 362 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: any idea how many there are in the world. Not 363 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: a single person on planet Earth knows exactly how many 364 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: BSL three and four labs there are on Earth right now. 365 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: So where is the oversight coming from for those labs? 366 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: I mean basically nowhere. I think the U s d 367 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: A has some jurisdiction um like OSHA or something they 368 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 1: don't have like work site hazard you know, inspections and 369 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: things like that. So as far as UM, I'm sure 370 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: that they do. As far as like Ocehan goes, yeah, 371 00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: I think that that would that would be extended to 372 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 1: every thing, including those laps. But as far as like 373 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 1: reporting it to like the CDC where the n I 374 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:10,160 Speaker 1: H there's no requirements unless you are NIH funded. That's terrifying. 375 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: It is extremely terrible. We're just talking about the United States, 376 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: right exactly. So if you are, you know, working in 377 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: a lab in Korea, Korea, South Korea, I'm sure has 378 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: UM like legislation or laws that say, you know, you 379 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: have to do this or you have to follow these 380 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,360 Speaker 1: rules or whatever. But there's there's no there's certainly no 381 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: universal oversight agency. The U n has is toothless in 382 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: this respect and almost every respect, but certainly in this respect, 383 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 1: right like toothless. UM, the World Health Organization has like 384 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: zero say in this. It's just it's just the wild West. 385 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: And unfortunately, UM, there are microbiologists and plenty of them 386 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: in the field who are like, whoa, wha, wha what what? 387 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: What experiment did you just run? Like? You just escalated, um, 388 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: the the contagiousness of this deadly flu virus so that 389 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: it can be passed more easily among mammals. Why did 390 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: you just do that? Uh? We should have a two 391 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: or three or four year moratorium on those kind of 392 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: experiments and and that kind of thing does get um 393 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: observed in the field, but it takes people in the 394 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: field to do that to raise the alarm, and they 395 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: don't always do it, and it's it's not necessarily having 396 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: this sweeping effect. And then after they raise the alarm 397 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: and study the problem, there's nobody stepping in and saying, yeah, 398 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 1: don't do that anymore. Really quickly. I just want to 399 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: stay in here because something that I kind of knew 400 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: about but I learned a lot more about through listening 401 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 1: to your podcast was gain a function research and what 402 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 1: exactly that is? Can you just tell us about that 403 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 1: and why it's so dangerous? Sure, so I talked to 404 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,160 Speaker 1: a few experts, like legitimate experts on this, and um, 405 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 1: gain a function research is where you take a wild virus, 406 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,719 Speaker 1: I guess a natural virus, and you force a mutation 407 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 1: in it so that it becomes deadlier or it becomes 408 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: more contagious, or it becomes less susceptible to treatments or 409 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: drugs or something like that. And when you when you 410 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: force mutations in this virus or a pathogen of any sort, 411 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: um and it it becomes deadlier or more contagious or 412 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: less susceptible. It has gained function. That's what they call it, 413 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: so gain a function. Research is basically taking evolution and 414 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: speeding it up. And they'll do things like, um, they'll 415 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 1: force a bunch of mutations and kind of selectively breed 416 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: of virus until they think it has the kind of um, 417 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: the kind of like uh maybe contagiousness they're looking for, 418 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: and then they'll introduce it into like a ferret's nose 419 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: and um, they'll take that and introduce it to another 420 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: ferrets nose and they'll just basically speed up the process 421 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: of an infection of pandemic among you know, lab animals. 422 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 1: And this was done with I think H five and 423 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: one uh in a couple of different labs simultaneously but independently. 424 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: It's really weird. They took this really really deadly via 425 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 1: russ and they basically taught it to be transferred from 426 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: one ferret to another through like sneezes and coughs. What 427 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: the saving grace, the thing that's kept us all alive 428 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: as far as H five n one goes, except for 429 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: a handful of unlucky people, UM, is that it's really 430 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: tough to spread. It's really really deadly I think it 431 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: has like a seventy or eight percent mortality, right, but 432 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: it's really hard to catch. Well, these guys, we're forcing 433 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 1: gain a function to make that virus much easier to catch. 434 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: And when this when they started publishing these these studies, um, 435 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: the field just went nuts. They were not having it. 436 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: They were very upset about this. They said, this was 437 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,719 Speaker 1: very reckless. Why are you doing this in the first place. 438 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: And then some people have even said these experiments did 439 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: not need to take place at all. You can actually 440 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: study the same kind of stuff just by studying proteins. 441 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: You don't have to have a wild or live active, 442 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: deadly vie rust that you're you're you're creating this in 443 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: You can just study the proteins. So if you kind 444 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 1: of step back, or I should say, if you dig 445 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 1: a little deeper into it, you start to get the 446 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 1: impression that there's a lot of ego that are driving 447 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: experiments like this just to kind of show that it 448 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: can be done. And this the field has a really 449 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 1: extensive history of that kind of like gun slinging recklessness, 450 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: Like look what I did. And the problem is when 451 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: you create a virus like that, it's alive, it lives 452 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: on Earth with us, and that means that it is 453 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: your responsibility for the rest of time to either eradicate 454 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 1: it from Earth or you have to keep up with 455 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: it make sure it doesn't get out. And if it 456 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 1: does get out, well, that's a big problem because now 457 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: you have an H five N one virus that's extremely 458 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 1: deadly and also extremely contagious. And that's the existential threat 459 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: posed in the biotech field that they're really risky experiments 460 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: being carried out, and they also have a a long 461 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 1: history of being accident prone as well. That's the one 462 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 1: that gets my my blood raised the most that I 463 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: don't know if you could tell ye it's I mean, 464 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: it's a terrifying proposition because we hear in the news cycle, right, 465 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: we hear about maybe once every year and a half 466 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 1: or report of a virulent strain of something breaking out 467 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 1: in a specific part of the world, and the question 468 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 1: is always how far will it get this time? Right? So, 469 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,199 Speaker 1: are are you saying that there is a real and 470 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 1: substantial possibility that some sort of um aggressively modified virus 471 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: or contagion really could just through the slip of someone's hand, 472 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: spread across the planet. I mean it's it's not one 473 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: of those things where one virus being experimented on and 474 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 1: one lab poses a significant um risk to humanity. But 475 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: it is a risk just that one virus in that 476 00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 1: one lab does pose a risk, just by the very 477 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: fact that it exists. And there are such things as 478 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: humans who are accident prone experimenting on them, right. So, um, 479 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: the problem comes when you have many, many people running 480 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,360 Speaker 1: the same or similar experiments with the same or similar 481 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: viruses all over the world in an unknown number of labs. 482 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: Then that that one, that one remote risk starts to 483 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: compound and get a little a little more dangerous than 484 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: a little more dicey. Um. I don't think that there's 485 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: any virus right now that could conceivably wipe outcent of 486 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 1: humanity or so many humans that we would we could 487 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: never possibly rebuild civilization ten thousand years down the road. 488 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: I don't think so. I don't know. I'm not in 489 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 1: the biotech field, but from the outside looking in to 490 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: the progression of the field over the last few decades 491 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 1: in particular, UM, it does seem like that's the direction 492 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: it's going. From my view, just mine, and I'm not 493 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: an expert, but from my view the sentiment, the sentiment 494 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: that I've kind of tapped into is, if you are 495 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 1: a microbiologist of the kind of cowboy ilk, coming up 496 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,959 Speaker 1: with a contagious virus with a mortality would be like 497 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: your crowning achievement, basically, And the whole premise of this 498 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: is to study it so we can figure out how 499 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: to treat them, and that that is like a that's 500 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: a legitimate avenue of research, that's the main avenue of 501 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: research for virology. That's the point largely. But do we 502 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: need to force gain a function in viruses that don't 503 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: exist like that in order to treat it. That's the 504 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: question that I have and and to me, the answer 505 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: is no. I think there are definitely other ways to 506 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: do it, and we should be focusing our research and 507 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: figuring out how to treat viruses that could consinuerably get 508 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: like that without creating them first. So, assuming that the 509 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: world doesn't end, we'll be right back after a word 510 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: from our sponsor, I'd like to take a take a 511 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,479 Speaker 1: slight pivot here and ask a couple of biographical questions 512 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: we probably should have asked in the beginning. This is 513 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: this entire interview has made me very conscious of time 514 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: as well. I hope we have enough time to finish. Um. 515 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 1: What one thing a lot of people want to know 516 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: is whether there was some specific moment in your life 517 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: that inspired the End of the World series. Was it? Uh? 518 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: Was it something related to biotech? Did you like get 519 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: a nasty cold and the doctor said, boy, uh, this 520 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: is weird, Josh, Um to sit down. What happened? Have 521 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: you been hanging out with ferrets? Later? Um? I actually 522 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 1: was sick while I wrote the bio Tech episode one, 523 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: uh yeah, which just really drove everything home that much more. Um. 524 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: The thing that inspired me to do the series, which 525 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,239 Speaker 1: and also I want to just take this time right now, 526 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: is to to thank all three of you for your 527 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: roles in helping me with the series. Like over time, 528 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: all three of you had a hand in it, and 529 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: I appreciate it big time. So thank you. Hat's off 530 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: to all three of you as well. We're excited to 531 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: hear it. I was too, really it finally came out. Um. 532 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: But the whole thing started, as you probably know, just 533 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: from this kind of intellectual curiosity about it, Like I 534 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: ran across Nick Bostro many years ago and read some 535 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: of his papers and um, I just found it fascinating 536 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 1: and I still find it fascinating. So the original point 537 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: of the series was to say, hey, everybody, check this out, 538 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: and that's the coolest thing you've ever heard in your life. 539 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 1: And as I dug into it more and more and 540 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: started to actually interview the people involved, like Nick Bostrom 541 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: and Tobior and other people at the Future of Humanity Institute, 542 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: I realized, oh wait, this isn't this isn't just an 543 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: intellectual pursuit. These people are doing like they're actually trying 544 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: to warn the world, like this is real, Like wait, wait, wait, 545 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: wait what this is real? And the the I underwent 546 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: a conversion, and then so too did the series because 547 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: I was still working on the series at the time, 548 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: and there was a huge tone shift in the series. 549 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: It went from straight basically like a very dry book report, 550 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: to Okay, we need to do something, everybody, and like 551 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 1: this kind of thread of we need to form a movement, 552 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: we need to start doing something emerged in the series 553 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: and took on almost became like a character in the series, 554 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: or certainly a theme, a major theme. So it was 555 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: originally intellectual interests that that brought me to it, and 556 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: then I kind of got struck by lightning on the 557 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: way to finishing and it changed the tone big time. 558 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what made me want to put my 559 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: phone down and up the movement. And it was in 560 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 1: one of the episodes where you talk about a certain 561 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: three and a million chants that occurred in the nineteen forties. 562 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 1: Isn't that fascinating? Can you tell us a little bit 563 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: of that story? Yeah. So, the what's widely seen as 564 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: the first human made existential risk that we've ever faced 565 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: was the first detonation of an atomic bomb at the 566 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: Trinity Test on July six in Alma Gordon, New Mexico, USA. UM. 567 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 1: And it wasn't that they were saying, yes, this thing 568 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: is going to be a deadly weapon, this is an 569 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: existential risk. A lot of people make the case, and 570 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: I kind of subscribe to it, to that the nuclear 571 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 1: bomb has never been an existential threat to humanity like 572 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: nuclear war, I should say, has never actually been because 573 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: we can't, we probably couldn't wipe all of humanity out. 574 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: And again, that's the thing that separates existential risks from 575 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: all other types of risk everything else. We have a 576 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 1: chance to rebuild, we have a chance to learn from 577 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: that mistake. With existential risks, there's no second chances, there's 578 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: no do over one thing. One thing goes wrong. That's 579 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 1: it for everybody, right, Um. And the first so the 580 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: nuclear bomb, just to say this, the nuclear bomb was 581 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: not the existential risk. Again, was not officially that part 582 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: wasn't the existential risk. It was the detonation that conceivably 583 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: posed an existential risk. I should say it was the 584 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: first possible human made existential risk. And the reason it 585 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: was is they they said they were sitting around the 586 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: dudes at the Manhattan Project. Um, and I think it 587 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: was Edward Teller. This is like the first time they 588 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,520 Speaker 1: all formally met, and Edward Teller was like, hey, has 589 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: anybody thought might we accidentally ignite the atmosphere with this thing? 590 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 1: You know, we're about to dump a massive amount of 591 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: energy into the atmosphere. It could set off a chain reaction, 592 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: don't you're thinking. I've read different accounts of it. Some people, 593 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: um say that it was immediately shouted down and they 594 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 1: all realized now it's fine, it's fine whatever. And then 595 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 1: somebody ended up telling Arthur Compton, and Arthur Compton was like, oh, 596 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: fiddle sticks, Like we need to do some of them 597 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: about this, and he assigned Teller and a couple of 598 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,359 Speaker 1: other guys to go figure out whether it was possible. So, 599 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: depending on on what story you here, either it was 600 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 1: like this great, like, guys, we got to get to 601 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 1: the bottom of this, or it was kind of like 602 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: a side project. But either way, they definitely assigned Teller 603 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: and a small group to go figure out, you know, mathematically, 604 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: if that was possible. And just to be clear, we're 605 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: talking about the entire atmosphere, not just a section of atmosphere, 606 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: the Earth's entire atmosphere chain reaction essentially. That was the 607 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,439 Speaker 1: that was the fear that that if when they set 608 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 1: off this first stomic bomb, because no one had ever 609 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: set off an atomic bomb before, it wasn't even at 610 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,919 Speaker 1: the time known whether it was possible. There was still 611 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,720 Speaker 1: a chance that it was going to be an impossibility 612 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 1: to create a nuclear explosion. But they were saying, if 613 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: we do do this, I mean like, if we started 614 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: a chain reaction in the atmosphere, it could spread and 615 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,399 Speaker 1: burn off the entire atmosphere on Earth and then life 616 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 1: would just see to exist in very short order. So 617 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: they started to study this and they came back and said, 618 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 1: there's a almost no chance that this is going to happen, 619 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: even even accounting for energy way beyond what we're going 620 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,319 Speaker 1: to be doing with the bomb. Um, We're we we 621 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 1: it's not gonna happen. But these guys are physicists, and 622 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: physicists don't deal in in certainty. They deal in probability. 623 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:31,240 Speaker 1: And so there was still that that that small, small 624 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: chance that they could accidentally ignite the atmosphere with this. 625 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: So later on, years later, UM, they went ahead with 626 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 1: the test. They decided that the possibility was small enough 627 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: that it was worth taking the risk because at the time, 628 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 1: the Nazis were still going strong, and they were like, 629 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: this is this is worth you know, the small chance 630 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,319 Speaker 1: that we're going to ignite the atmosphere is worth you know, 631 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 1: taking over the Nazis with this bomb that we're going 632 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 1: to produce from this test eventually. UM. But the the 633 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: years later, the guy who was running the Manhattan Project 634 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 1: at the time, his name was Arthur Compton. He told 635 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,240 Speaker 1: the writer Pearl Buck about this story and he said, 636 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 1: I drew a line in the sand. I said that 637 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: if there was a three and a million chance of 638 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: igniting the atmosphere, we wouldn't go through with the test. 639 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: And so over the years some people have been like, 640 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,399 Speaker 1: was it one in a million? Did he misspeak? Like 641 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,839 Speaker 1: it was there any chance whatsoever? But that was supposedly 642 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,919 Speaker 1: the way that we handled the first existential risk, which 643 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,279 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways was like great, you know, 644 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: hats off. Like they took it seriously, they studied it. Um, 645 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,360 Speaker 1: they did the math, they they carried the one and 646 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,959 Speaker 1: all that stuff, right. Um. But then if you step 647 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 1: back and look at it another way, that they decided 648 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 1: for the rest of the people alive on earth at 649 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,399 Speaker 1: the time, that this three and a million chance was 650 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: was worth it. Um, it was worth the risk. And 651 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's plenty of people still alive today and 652 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 1: who would have been alive back then who would have said, no, no, 653 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: it's actually not worth that risk. Three and a million 654 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: is actually not that remote of a chance. Like you 655 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,320 Speaker 1: have a one in a million chance of being struck 656 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: by lightning if you live in North America. I can't 657 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: remember if it's any given year or your lifetime, but 658 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: a one in a million, this is a three times 659 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: greater chance of being struck by lightning. That they were 660 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 1: going to ignite the atmosphere. And so if you kind 661 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,880 Speaker 1: of look at the probability compared to other probabilities, UM, 662 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: it suddenly made it seem like maybe that wasn't such 663 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 1: a good idea to carry out the test anyway, And 664 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 1: so I kind of used that in I think episode 665 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,280 Speaker 1: nine UM as a as kind of this this teaching example, 666 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,719 Speaker 1: like it gives us a model of how to approach 667 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 1: existential risks, but it also shows us what not to do, 668 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: and that's not to have just a small caudra of 669 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,319 Speaker 1: UH people working in secret to decide for the rest 670 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,359 Speaker 1: of the world without any input UM whether something's worth 671 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,320 Speaker 1: the risk or not. And that's one of the reasons 672 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,280 Speaker 1: why we all need to be involved, why Dave, everyman 673 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: from Manitoba needs to be involved by you guys need 674 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: to be involved, by I need to be involved because again, 675 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,760 Speaker 1: there's no one at the top thinking about this stuff 676 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: and it's going to take a bottom up process. But 677 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 1: for us to do it correctly, for us not to 678 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 1: just be like I don't think it's worth the risk, 679 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: we all need to understand the science behind all this stuff. 680 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,799 Speaker 1: We need to be informed. So we need to if 681 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,360 Speaker 1: we're gonna decide together. It has to be a smart decision, 682 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: you know, and we have to convert that death cult 683 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 1: into the thinking cult to to take on existential risks, 684 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 1: because basically everybody needs to be on board, and at 685 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 1: the very least the people who aren't on board need 686 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 1: to get out of the way and not work counter 687 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: to the stuff that that everyone else is trying to do. 688 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,319 Speaker 1: You know, I I gotta be honest. That was incredibly 689 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 1: well said and I kind of felt music swelling. I 690 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 1: don't know if Paul's going to put it in when 691 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,720 Speaker 1: we when we do this in post, but it does. 692 00:38:55,880 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: It does lead us to some question that naturally follow, 693 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:06,320 Speaker 1: one of which being we're talking about becoming more educated, 694 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,800 Speaker 1: become more aware of a situation, becoming less apathetic, realizing 695 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 1: that there's no one truly in a room at the top. Right, 696 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,680 Speaker 1: But what what do those next steps look like? What 697 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: what are the specific concrete things other than of course 698 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 1: checking out the show? Right? Thanks for that, dud um 699 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,439 Speaker 1: so Uh. The first step that we have to take 700 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 1: those of us alive today is to start talking about 701 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. Like the more people talk about things, 702 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 1: and I used the example of like the environmental movement, 703 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: like the environmental movement today, has a lot left to do, 704 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: a lot of work left too, And who knows, maybe 705 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,360 Speaker 1: this kind of twelve year timeline that we've been given 706 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 1: recently will will get people going a lot more seriously 707 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 1: on climate change. But the fact is there is an 708 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: environmental movement. There didn't used to be. It's just in 709 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,279 Speaker 1: the sixties, the late sixties even there was basically no 710 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 1: such thing as the environmental movement. Now every you know, 711 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,760 Speaker 1: eight year old can tell you tons of environmental facts, 712 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,880 Speaker 1: cares about the environment, knows what they can do to 713 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,839 Speaker 1: to make the to make the earth a better place. Um, 714 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 1: we need to do the same thing with existential risks. 715 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,920 Speaker 1: So step one is for everybody to make this an issue. 716 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,319 Speaker 1: When all of us start talking about things like this, 717 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,319 Speaker 1: the people who we elect start paying attention. It's like, oh, 718 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,240 Speaker 1: this is what these guys want. Okay, I'm on board. 719 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 1: It's not like they're necessarily opposed to what we're doing 720 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,520 Speaker 1: by principle, it's just not enough of us are talking 721 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 1: about this kind of thing or that kind of thing 722 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 1: or whatever. So the more of us start talking start 723 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,359 Speaker 1: talking about this, the more we're going to be able 724 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 1: to get movement on it. We also need to basically 725 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:51,360 Speaker 1: take a lot of the um scientific mental energy that 726 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: we have available, and a lot of the money that 727 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,280 Speaker 1: we put towards science and a lot of other stuff 728 00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 1: to divert to thinking about existential risks, identifying existential risks, 729 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,319 Speaker 1: identifying best practices. And then the next step is for 730 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,160 Speaker 1: those of us alive today to say, Okay, what what 731 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:10,800 Speaker 1: did you guys come up with? And then listen to them, 732 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,719 Speaker 1: not fight them, not say that sounds kind of hard, 733 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,640 Speaker 1: we can't do it, because what they come back to 734 00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 1: us with will be a roadmap for surviving the next 735 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 1: hundred to two hundred years as a species. Right if 736 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: we can, if we can just kind of alter our 737 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,240 Speaker 1: brains just a little bit, and those relatively small ways, 738 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,319 Speaker 1: we will lay the groundwork for generations to come to 739 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: build on. But that's the key. Those of us live 740 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 1: today have to start now, or else we're just going 741 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,040 Speaker 1: to hamstring the ones to come. And in that sense, 742 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: it really kind of bears a strong resemblance to environmentalism 743 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 1: as well. So it's basically environmentalism for the human species 744 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:55,240 Speaker 1: is what we need to do. Start that. Wow, So 745 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: everyone listening here, I would describe End of the World 746 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:03,319 Speaker 1: as if Black Mirror and Cosmos had a baby, and 747 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:07,440 Speaker 1: then that baby made a podcast and baby can't make Yes, 748 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 1: Oh yes I can. But if if that interests you 749 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:13,600 Speaker 1: as it did me, go check it out right now. 750 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 1: You can find the End of the World on the 751 00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app. Is that the right way to 752 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,800 Speaker 1: say it? I've never done this before. Somebody want to do? 753 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:23,360 Speaker 1: You want to do? What? Josh? You say? Where it is? 754 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,719 Speaker 1: You can find it on Apple podcast, the I Heart 755 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 1: Radio app, everywhere you listen to podcasts, and not to mention, 756 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,600 Speaker 1: it's all there so you can bass the whole thing 757 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:35,240 Speaker 1: there for your listening pleasures. So all ten episodes. Yeah, 758 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,239 Speaker 1: and hats off to Paul too. You know he was 759 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,600 Speaker 1: the supervising producer on it and top job. Try to 760 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:46,480 Speaker 1: call him mission control. Also, also tell us how you 761 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,840 Speaker 1: feel after checking out the show. Tell us what really 762 00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,920 Speaker 1: piqued your interests. Tell us if you have responses, you 763 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,360 Speaker 1: can you can write to us. You can write to 764 00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 1: Endo the world on let's see Instagram. Twit all the hits, 765 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:05,400 Speaker 1: it's right mostly I'm there's a there's a hashtag. Hashtag. 766 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,720 Speaker 1: You've gotta make the two similar the two fingers simile 767 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: hashtag e O t W Josh Clark is where you'll 768 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,880 Speaker 1: find that all over social and then I'm at Josh 769 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:18,000 Speaker 1: um Clark on like Instagram and Twitter and in Facebook. 770 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,120 Speaker 1: Um and then there's like some e O t W 771 00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 1: Josh Clark stuff to you and tell us, tell us 772 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,279 Speaker 1: how you keep your optimism after you listen to the show. 773 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,239 Speaker 1: I don't want to spoil it too much because you 774 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,839 Speaker 1: should go check it out. So go ahead and find 775 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,840 Speaker 1: us again. We are conspiracy stuff on most socials or 776 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 1: conspiracy stuff show on Instagram. It just just tell us 777 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,479 Speaker 1: what you think this is. This kind of stuff keeps 778 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,440 Speaker 1: me up at night, honestly, And I don't know how 779 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,200 Speaker 1: you got through creating all of this content, Josh, because 780 00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,759 Speaker 1: I mean, just listening to it and and uh, absorbing 781 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 1: it as a listener gives you a certain amount of 782 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,680 Speaker 1: dread and hope and it's almost this simultaneous like scared 783 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:02,160 Speaker 1: happy feeling. It's very strange. It's weird. It's very strange. 784 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:04,680 Speaker 1: And you've just been immersing and you're still here and 785 00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:10,120 Speaker 1: you look you look to be fine. Okay, all right, Well, 786 00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:11,320 Speaker 1: if you don't want to do any of that stuff. 787 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,759 Speaker 1: Give us a call. We are one eight three three 788 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,560 Speaker 1: s T d w y t K. Leave a message, 789 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,080 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, leave a message you might get on the show. 790 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,080 Speaker 1: And if you don't want to do any of that stuff, 791 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 1: please send us an old fashioned email. We are conspiracy 792 00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:48,800 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com.