1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Well, first off, Happy Independence Day. I hope everyone is 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: having an amazing day. I hope you're spending time with 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: the people you love. I hope you're spending time with 4 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: your friends, your family. Maybe you're on a trip, maybe 5 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 1: you're just doing a staycation, or maybe even have to work. 6 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: But I hope it's a great day. Nonetheless, as we 7 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: celebrate Independence days, we celebrate America's independence from a monarchy, 8 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 1: we look today at what has really transpired over the 9 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: past few years, particularly during COVID and I talk about 10 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: this a lot on the show, but it was so 11 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: eye opening for me. I'm sure it was for a 12 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: lot of you guys at home. Of just tyranny is here? Right? 13 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: We're not immune to tyranny. Of course, we weren't back 14 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 1: when this nation was founded, but we're certainly not today. 15 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: And if you look back at the founding generation or 16 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: founding fathers, they didn't put up with it, right, They 17 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: weren't putting up with this oppressive regime from far away 18 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,959 Speaker 1: trying to strangle their way of life, trying to impose 19 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:53,480 Speaker 1: on their way of life, trying to dictate to them 20 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: their way of life. So why are we putting up 21 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: with it? Today, right, why are we putting up with 22 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: our government. I'm not saying we don't have to to, 23 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: obviously the tactics that are Founding Generation resorted to, but 24 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: there are other ways to fight back. There are other 25 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: ways to fight back, you know, locally, to fight back 26 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: against government, to fight back against tyranny, and to resist 27 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: a little bit. So today, what I want to do 28 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: is sort of revisit the foundations of America, Revisit our 29 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: founding fathers, revisit the Founding Generation. You know, why was 30 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 1: America born? You know what happened in the lead up 31 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 1: before the Decoration of Independence, you know what happened to 32 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: that lead up before July fourth, seventeen seventy six. So 33 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: we're going to get into that with a historian. His 34 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 1: name is doctor Bryan McClanahan. He has his own podcast, 35 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,559 Speaker 1: The Brian McLanahan Show. You can check it out on Apple. 36 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: I listened to like five yesterday. It's super interesting. He 37 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: gets into a lot of real world issues, today's issues 38 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: from a historical perspective, and he just has really interesting 39 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: takes on it. He's a really smart guy. So he's 40 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: also the author and co author of six books. He's 41 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: written books like The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Founding 42 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: Fathers The Founding Father's Guide to the Constitution. He's a 43 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: faculty member at the tom Woods Liberty Classroom. He received 44 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: a bachelor's degree in history from Salisbury University, of masters 45 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: in history from the University of South Carolina, as well 46 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: as his PhD in history from the University of South Carolina. 47 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: It's just a really interesting guy. So today, on this 48 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: Independence Day, we're going to talk about individual liberty. We're 49 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: going to talk about freedom. We're going to talk about 50 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: the birth of America, why this country is special, why 51 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 1: this country needs to be preserved, and what we can 52 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: do to preserve it. So I hope you enjoyed this 53 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: fourth of July Independence Day Special with doctor Brian McLanahan. 54 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: Doctor Brian McLanahan, thanks so much for joining The Truth 55 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: with Lisa Booth. I appreciate your time. 56 00:02:58,200 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 2: Well, thanks for having me on. 57 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 1: I appreciate Itbviously, this is for the Independence Day Special. 58 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 1: You know, we've sort of seen a lot of narratives 59 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: that we believe to be true have been contradicted and 60 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: shown to not be true, and a lot of what 61 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: we thought we were insulated and immune from in America 62 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: like tyranny. We saw during COVID that we are actually not. 63 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 1: So I kind of wanted to revisit American history or 64 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: nation's foundings and sort of how far we've gone from 65 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: that beginning, and I thought you'd be the perfect person 66 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:27,559 Speaker 1: for this episode. 67 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate you having me on. Yes. I mean 68 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 2: it's when you look at what's happened in America over 69 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 2: the last couple of years, and I mean really in 70 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 2: the last one hundred plus years, and where where we've 71 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 2: come from and where we are today. There's a dramatic 72 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 2: difference between twenty twenty two and seventeen seventy five and 73 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 2: what Americans are willing to accept in seventeen seventy five 74 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 2: and what we're willing to accept today. If the founding 75 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 2: generation were dropped in twenty twenty two, they'd look at 76 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 2: all of us and say, what are you doing. You know, 77 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 2: we were willing to do far more for far less 78 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 2: than what you're willing to suffer through now. And so 79 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 2: it's a really important history lesson to get all of 80 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 2: this right, because if Americans really knew the story of independence, 81 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 2: I think they would be looking at things today dramatically different. 82 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: Well, and what's interesting is I was listening to your podcast. 83 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: It's really good. People should go take a look, subscribe 84 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: the Brian McClanahan show. You sort of challenge a lot 85 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: of groupthink orthodoxy that you know, a lot of people 86 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: say a lot of points about history that may or 87 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: may not be true that we've been taught incorrectly as well. 88 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: But so you use founding generation instead of just talking 89 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: about the founding fathers. Why do you make that distinction? 90 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 2: Well, because if you just say to founding fathers, people 91 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 2: think it's the fifty five men who drafted the Constitution, 92 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 2: or it's maybe six people. I mean, I've called them 93 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 2: the Big six. You know, it's Washington, Adams, Hamilton, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin. 94 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 2: And of course that's incorrect. You had an entire generation 95 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 2: of Americans through thirteen states that were interested in these 96 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 2: principles that we all think about today, independence, liberty, all 97 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 2: these things. And so when you talk about the Constitution, 98 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 2: for example, the Constitution wasn't ratified by fifty five guys. 99 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 2: It was ratified by thirteen states, and you had a 100 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 2: large public discussion about what that meant. And so there's 101 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: a lot of people in that generation of founders that 102 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 2: we wouldn't recognize. For example, Roger Sherman of Connecticut, who 103 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 2: was so important in that period of time, but nobody 104 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 2: knows who he is. Or even people that you might 105 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 2: recognize their name, like George Mason or Virginia, but you 106 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 2: don't really know much about him, so or John Dickinson 107 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 2: of Pennsylvania. And this is a bigger issue than just 108 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 2: a few guys sitting in Philadelphia in seventeen eighty seven, 109 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 2: or even just the delegates to the Continental Congress in 110 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: seventeen seventy six. There's so much more to this, and 111 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 2: I think we need to be comprehensive. And when we 112 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,239 Speaker 2: talk about this generation of people, there was a variety 113 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 2: of viewpoints, but at the end of the day, they 114 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 2: were all committed to one particular principle, and that was 115 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,159 Speaker 2: a limited central authority. And when they're talking about the 116 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 2: British and the relationship between the British and the American colonies, 117 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 2: and of course that would translate later in to the 118 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 2: Constitution and the Articles of Confederation and the Declaration. So 119 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 2: they're all committed to that and also to that principle 120 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 2: of independence, and I think that's something we often forget. 121 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 1: How much of what we are taught about history is 122 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: actually true. 123 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 2: Well, that's a big question when you think about the 124 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,719 Speaker 2: Founding period. There's a lot that people get right, even 125 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 2: the leftist historians or things they get right. But I 126 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 2: would say that the real problem in America with teaching 127 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:32,799 Speaker 2: history is politicizing everything. You know, if we're talking about 128 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 2: the eighteenth century, it has to be political. And what 129 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 2: I mean by that is these people have to be 130 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 2: twenty first century Americans. If they're not, then we're just 131 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 2: going to discard them. And this is the entire agenda, 132 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 2: going after people like Washington and Jefferson now for things 133 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 2: that they did that we don't do today, or views 134 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 2: that they held that we don't hold today. But that's 135 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 2: the real problem. It's saying, Okay, well Washington's a great man. 136 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 2: Well wait a second, because he owned slaves, he's not 137 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 2: really that great of a man. Or Jefferson's a great man. 138 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 2: We'll wait a second because he owned slaves and he's 139 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 2: not a great man so, or because he held views 140 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 2: on race that we don't hold today. So this is 141 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 2: the real issue. It's not that we're taught things incorrectly. 142 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: It's that everything is politicized and has an agenda behind 143 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 2: all of it. So instead of just using history as 144 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 2: a point, we can say, well, these people were great, 145 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 2: let's look at what they said, and we know that 146 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 2: they do things or say things and we don't necessarily 147 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 2: agree with today. But what do they offer us for 148 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 2: Americans in the twenty first century. We have to discard 149 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 2: them because they are not twenty first century Americans. And 150 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 2: that's called presentism. And I think that's the real issue 151 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 2: with historical profession. 152 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,239 Speaker 1: That makes a lot of sense, a ton of sense. Actually, 153 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: you know, before we kind of get into abbreviated TikTok 154 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: of what led up to the Declaration of Independence, what 155 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: do we typically get wrong about the American Revolution? 156 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 2: Well, I think one of the most important things is 157 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 2: that it was simply about taxation, and of course that's 158 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 2: and that was an issue. But the real core issue 159 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:00,080 Speaker 2: leading into independence was this idea that somehow the the 160 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 2: parliament could legislate for the colonies in all cases whatsoever. 161 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 2: That's what Tom Payne said in the American Crisis. That 162 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 2: was the issue. They were certainly willing to concede that 163 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 2: parliament could regulate international trade or defend the colonies. But 164 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,239 Speaker 2: what they didn't want Parliament doing was going in and saying, Okay, 165 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 2: these are the taxes you have to have, and this 166 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 2: is the currency you have to use. These are the 167 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 2: things you have to do in the colonies. Because of 168 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 2: course the colonies had their own legislatures and the parliament. 169 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 2: There was no representation in Parliament for these colonies. So 170 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,679 Speaker 2: there was a violation of the ancient rights of Englishmen. 171 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 2: So Patrick Henry talked about and it was this idea 172 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 2: that somehow Parliament had supremacy over these colonies when they 173 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 2: simply didn't have any role in that parliament. So when 174 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 2: we simplify this period of time, we're make it into 175 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 2: about lofty rights that were fabricated out of thin air. 176 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 2: You know this that we do today, the proposition nation equality, 177 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 2: these kind of things. I mean, they certainly talked about 178 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 2: that stuff, but at the core, it was simply about 179 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 2: making sure that they could govern themselves, and they were 180 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 2: firmly committed to the Magna Carta, the English Bill of Rights. 181 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 2: It was an Anglo American tradition they were fighting for. 182 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 2: So I think that's the major misconception that it was 183 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 2: just a simple no taxation, we don't want to be taxed, 184 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 2: or you know, we're willing to fight for some some 185 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 2: other kind of principle that you know, it's something in 186 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 2: the air that just doesn't make any sense. It was 187 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 2: certainly a commitment to this idea of local self government 188 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 2: that they were more concerned about than anything else. 189 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 1: Well, and to that point, did it start with the 190 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: Stamp Act, because I know you had the Sugar Act 191 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: the year before, I believe, But the Stamp Act I 192 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: believe was a tax on items within the colonies, which 193 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: to your point was sort of this government interference from 194 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,239 Speaker 1: a government far away that they did not have representation, 195 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: they did not have input. Was that sort of the 196 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 1: turning point? And when that relationship changed and the role 197 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: of government changed within these colonies? 198 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, absolutely. I mean you point out the Sugar 199 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 2: Act the year before seventeen sixty four, but by seventeen 200 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 2: sixty five, you know, when the colony when the Parliament 201 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 2: passes the Stamp Act and the colonies were react to 202 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 2: that in the way they did. It was exactly what 203 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: you said, Well, you know what, you're not going to 204 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 2: a tax us internally when that's breaking over one hundred 205 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 2: years of precedent. I mean, you go back to the 206 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 2: era of Salu tarn neglectus what is called the parliament 207 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 2: let the colonies alone, they could govern themselves, and so 208 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 2: that developed a system in their mind, a precedent for governance. 209 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 2: And so when the Stamppack comes about, the colonial legislatures say, 210 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 2: you know, we're just not going to this. This is unconstitutional. 211 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 2: And of course the resistance was what we would call 212 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 2: today nullification. They actually used it that that was born 213 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 2: out of it. We're just not going to enforce the 214 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 2: stamp Act, and we're going to tell our courts not 215 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 2: to enforce. We're not going to have anybody charged with 216 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 2: breaking the Stamppack. So the resistance was, Okay, you can 217 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 2: pass a law in parliament, we're just not going to 218 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 2: enforce it here in the colonies. And you saw this 219 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 2: across what became the United States. It wasn't just you know, 220 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 2: Massachusetts or but it was in Virginia. There was there 221 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 2: was certainly resistance in every colony to this Stampack. And 222 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 2: that's because they viewed it as an unconstitutional measure. And 223 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 2: think about all the things we have today that are unconstitutional, 224 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 2: wile people just live with it. Okay, yeah, fine, they 225 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 2: can pass it. We'll just go along with it. But 226 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 2: that would not be the founding response to it. 227 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: Or you know, you look at COVID, it's not even law. 228 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: You just have executive order dictating how we live our 229 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: lives or shutting businesses down. That people have put everything 230 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: into their whole livelihoods, their ability to feed their kids 231 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: without a blink of the eye. But then, you know, 232 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: but you can ride in the street that first Amendment 233 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: right is you know, worthy, but not going to church. 234 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: So yeah, so I think a lot of people can 235 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: sort of sympathize with that. So to be clear, you know, 236 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: before sort of you know, like the Stamp Act, and 237 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: you know, there's a bunch of different actions and provocations 238 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: that the British government takes against the colonists. But so 239 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: there was really sort of a system of self governance 240 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:48,959 Speaker 1: to a certain degree, even though they're part of the 241 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: British government. Is that correct? 242 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 2: Absolutely? I mean, every colony had its own legislature. In fact, 243 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 2: the first legislature in North America was established in the sixth 244 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 2: nineteen in Virginia. That's the other sixteen nineteen right, we 245 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 2: have the sixteen nineteen project. But the real importance of 246 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 2: sixteen nineteen was that first legislature in Virginia elected legislature, 247 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 2: and so you had local government here, and I think 248 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 2: that's what we miss now. Of course, every colony by 249 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 2: the eighteenth century had a governor, a royal governor that 250 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 2: was appointed by the crown. But still these colonies had 251 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 2: the ability to legislate for themselves. And they were very 252 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 2: upset about the fact that you had Parliament stepping in 253 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 2: and saying, okay, well, you know, we spent all this 254 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 2: money on defending you during the during the French and 255 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 2: Indian War, and so now you're going to pay for that, 256 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 2: and we're going to tell you how you're going to 257 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 2: pay for it. And so this was the issue. It 258 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 2: was legislating for them in all cases whatsoever. And Tompaign 259 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 2: called it tyranny. He said, that's it. If we can't 260 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 2: legislate for ourselves, if we can't dictate what kind of 261 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 2: legislation we'll accept for ourselves. And there's no other definition 262 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 2: but tyranny than that. And so when you look back 263 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 2: at this period, it was and you talked about COVID 264 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 2: and everything else, I mean, again, we're willing to suffer 265 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 2: for in the United States today for far, you know, 266 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 2: far more than what the founding generation was. I mean, 267 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 2: they were not happy about a small tax that was 268 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 2: being levied against them against their will, and they were 269 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 2: willing to declare their independence over it. And how much 270 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 2: are we willing to accept today? 271 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: How much of a leitism sort of came into play, 272 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: Like even though like George Washington was read, she's not 273 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 1: a British noble, right, he probably still felt like they 274 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: were thumbing their nose at him, looking down upon him. 275 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: How much of that sort of had to play in here. 276 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,079 Speaker 2: Well, that's a good question when you think about the 277 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 2: leadership and the colonies. If you just use Virginia as example, 278 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 2: I mean a lot of these people believe they were 279 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 2: in so many ways kind of a part of this 280 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 2: old gentrification system in Great Britain. I mean, you have 281 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 2: the distressed cavaliers that came out to Virginia and they 282 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 2: established plantations. But certainly there was an anti monarcharal stance 283 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 2: in America. I wouldn't say it was dramatically democratic the 284 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 2: way we think of it today, but they were certainly 285 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 2: more democratic than which you would find in Great Britain 286 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 2: as far as the elitist position, I mean, they certainly 287 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 2: didn't care for the for the hereditary monarchy. They at 288 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 2: least a portion of the founding generation they didn't. They 289 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 2: didn't care for it. There were those, of course did 290 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 2: I mean, there were there were Tories in America, so 291 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 2: they were certainly fine with the monarchy. But those that 292 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 2: were interested independence, I mean that attack on the king 293 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 2: or this hereditary system was something they didn't like. And 294 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 2: this is why when there was an executive proposed in 295 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 2: Philadelphia in seventeen eighty seven, they all sat in sun 296 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 2: Stylus for a minute and they said, you know what, 297 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 2: my gosh, this is we're going to get a king 298 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 2: and we didn't want that. And so when you look 299 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 2: at the arts of Articles of Confederation, there's no monarchy 300 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 2: in that, there's no executive. So that was something they 301 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 2: were certainly concerned about, and that elite I don't know 302 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 2: if it was necessary elitism, but they certainly didn't like 303 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 2: the hereditary monarchical system to a great extent. 304 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: Quick commercial break back with doctor Brian McLanahan on the 305 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: other side, talk about sort of like the provocations, these 306 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: acts where that revolutionary spirit just started to build up. 307 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: You know, we talked about the Stamp Back, you talked 308 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: about the Sugar Act. You know, you got the Tact, 309 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: the Township Acts, all these different things, you know, talk 310 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: about sort of that build up and that increase just 311 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: frustration with the heavy hand of you know, the British 312 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: government kind of you know, putting it down on their necks. 313 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 2: Sure well, I mean if you, if you one of 314 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 2: my favorite characters in all that is Sam Adams, because 315 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 2: Sam Adams was the guy that we all know, this person. 316 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 2: They stand on the corner or nowadays it's on the 317 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 2: Internet and they say, you know, it's going to get bad. 318 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 2: It's going to get worse. Just wait, it's going to 319 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 2: get worse. It doesn't matter what's going on this things 320 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 2: are going to get worse. Just wait and see, just 321 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 2: watch take my word for it. And so if you 322 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 2: look at seventeen sixty five and the Stamp Act and 323 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 2: the response to that, it actually worked. I mean, the 324 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 2: colonists figured out that if they could go after the 325 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 2: British and the Parliament in their wallet, it was going 326 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 2: to help. And so the response was either nullification or 327 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 2: non importation. They set up ways to hurt the empire economically. 328 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 2: But of course by seventeen sixty seven the Parliament is 329 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 2: doubling down, and then by seventeen seventy you see things 330 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 2: get pretty bad, right. I mean, it's you have your 331 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 2: five years away from the ultimate break. But you had 332 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 2: a period of law between seventeen seventy and seventeen seventy 333 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 2: two when there wasn't a whole lot going on. But 334 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 2: by seventeen seventy three, again you see these bills by 335 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 2: parliament ramping up. And this is the North Parliament. I mean, 336 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 2: they certainly believed that the colonies were their subjects and 337 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 2: they needed to be to pay their fair share and 338 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 2: do what the Parliament told them. And you know, you 339 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 2: look at things like the Intollible Acts, which eventually came 340 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 2: about because of the T Act and the response to that. 341 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 2: One thing we miss about the TA Act, by the way, 342 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 2: let me just say this is that it wasn't really 343 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 2: a tax on tea that the colonists were concerned about. 344 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 2: It was establishing a monopoly only certain partners could trade 345 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 2: that bridge Cindia t And so they thought that was 346 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 2: a violation of good economic sense. And of course the 347 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 2: creating a royal monopoly in the colonies, and so that's 348 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 2: why they resisted it. But when you look at the 349 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 2: intitible aximy shutting down the Massachusetts government saying that you're 350 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 2: going to be essentially part of Canada, which at that 351 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 2: time was where they're where they're linking them in. That 352 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 2: was Catholic, and so you had this religious resistance there 353 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 2: as well. But that was the real issue. It was 354 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,439 Speaker 2: taking away those colonial charters essentially and saying you're going 355 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 2: to be under us, directly under our thumb. That was 356 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 2: the point when I think everyone realized, Okay, this is 357 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 2: going to get really bad, and if we're willing to 358 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 2: accept this now, there's no turning back. I mean, they're 359 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 2: going to say to us that they can abolish our legislatures. 360 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 2: They can they can do whatever they want to us. 361 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 2: You had in Virginia right that the Groyl governor shut 362 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 2: down the legislature of the House of Burgesses, and so 363 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 2: they went and met in the tavern and said, Okay, 364 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 2: we're going to beat in Raleigh tavern. We're going to 365 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 2: legislate anyways, because you can't annihilate our legislature. So that 366 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,439 Speaker 2: was the real point when you have these intitable acts, 367 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 2: even though they were directed only at Massachusetts, the other 368 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 2: colonies reacted to it and saying, well, if it's going 369 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 2: to happen there, it's going to happen here. And of 370 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 2: course Sam Adams has proven correct. He said, just wait, 371 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 2: this is all going to get bad and eventually, and 372 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 2: eventually it did. 373 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 1: Well, I've got a lot of people saying that about 374 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: where we are today too, but we'll get to that 375 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: in a little bit. You know, how important were things 376 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: like the Boston Tea Party, obviously a massive fu to 377 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: the British government and just spurring that public sentiment of 378 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 1: rolling people up to being like, you know what it's on, right? 379 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 2: I mean, the Boston Tea Party in terms of propaganda 380 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 2: was very important. You had, of course Paul Revere and 381 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 2: you know, involved in creating images of this thing. But 382 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 2: when you look at the actual massacre itself, the term massacre, 383 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 2: I mean it was it was it wasn't really a 384 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:57,199 Speaker 2: massacre with the loss of life, but the the the 385 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 2: way that they could sell this to the public was 386 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 2: and of course the colonists were somewhat responsible for this. 387 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 2: I mean, they were harassing the British soldiers or throwing 388 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 2: ice at him, and there was a lot of question 389 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 2: about whether you know, there was even an order given 390 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 2: to fire by the British or if this was somebody 391 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 2: staying in the shadows yelling fire. Of course, there's also 392 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 2: a fire and actual physical fire in Boston at that point, 393 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 2: and so maybe somebody got a little itchy trigger finger 394 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 2: and they fired. But the important part about it too 395 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 2: was the response by John Adams, who thought that these 396 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 2: soldiers needed a fair trial because if they didn't get 397 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 2: a fair trial, then the Parliament could look at him 398 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 2: and say, well, I mean we're gonna we're gonna ship 399 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,199 Speaker 2: you back over to London to stand trial, so for 400 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 2: anything else. So he wanted to ensure that these soldiers 401 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 2: got a fair trial, and they did. He actually was 402 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 2: able to get several of them acquitted. So that response 403 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 2: to is interesting. Adams did that to a great expense 404 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 2: of his of his career, at least at that point, 405 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 2: but in terms of propaganda it's huge because now you 406 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 2: have dead people in the streets, and there were other 407 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 2: there was another event in New York City where you 408 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 2: had a similar kind of you know, riot. There was 409 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 2: some there was some bloodshed, there too, so that I 410 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,120 Speaker 2: mean that part of that period of time, that little 411 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,199 Speaker 2: bit of violence. But again things calmed down after that 412 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,439 Speaker 2: for a couple of years, and then it was it 413 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 2: ramped back up again leading into seventeen seventy five. 414 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: Well, and you also had, you know, other public acts 415 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: of rebellion like the Boston Tea Party as well. 416 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean the Boston tea There are many tea parties. 417 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 2: That's that's a fun part of this too. The Boston 418 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 2: Tea Party where and the most conspicuous where they threw 419 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 2: the tea into the harbor. But you actually had tea 420 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 2: parties in Maryland. You had so you had one there 421 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 2: where the citizens of Maryland took all the tea off 422 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 2: the ship and then burned it. And of course the 423 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 2: funny thing about that is they sold it, right, They 424 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 2: didn't just throw it in the harbor. They took it 425 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 2: and they sold it and they used the money to 426 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 2: finance their activities against the crown. So that was the 427 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 2: more wise thing to do than just throwing it in 428 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,679 Speaker 2: the harbor. But this, the response of the to the 429 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,719 Speaker 2: Tea Act was not just in Boston. It was it 430 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 2: was again across the colony. So these public resistance to 431 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:03,120 Speaker 2: these unco constitution or in toable acts was something very 432 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 2: important in leading up to the war. And again when 433 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 2: we think about today, we had the Tea Party movement 434 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 2: for a little while and people you can thrown little 435 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,199 Speaker 2: tea bags into the water. I mean, that's that's funny. 436 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 2: But I don't know if Americans are as committed today 437 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 2: as as the founding generation was a standing up for 438 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 2: things that they considered to be their liberties. If but 439 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 2: I am encouraged by what happened with COVID and people 440 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 2: finally saying enough, we're just not going to wear the masks. 441 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 2: We're not going to do this. We're not gonna We're 442 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 2: not going to abide by your stupid edicts. These things 443 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 2: are illegal, they're unconstitutional. I think that's that was encouraging, 444 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 2: And also the response from various states and saying, you know, 445 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,400 Speaker 2: federal government, you're really want to have this power. We're 446 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 2: going to do what we want to do. In you know, Florida, 447 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 2: for example, Ironda Stantis. So that was the spirit of independence, 448 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 2: and I think that's something again that's lacking throughout most 449 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 2: of America, but it is still there in many parts 450 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 2: of the United States, and that's a good thing to see. 451 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,479 Speaker 1: And also I think Onmacron helped too, because basically all 452 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: these people who think they thought they could hide in 453 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 1: their basements for two years got COVID and then they're like, Okay, 454 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: well I don't care anymore. It's sort of like deprogrammed 455 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: these crazy people. 456 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 2: So right, as more and more people got it and 457 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 2: they figured out it was a bad cold, and of course, 458 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 2: you know, you can't minimize it. Initially it was. It 459 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 2: was pretty rough on a lot of people, and a 460 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 2: lot of elderly people in particular. But you know, our 461 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 2: response to it, the government's response to it was very 462 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 2: much a British type response initially, and I think that's 463 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 2: that's something we miss in all this, and of course 464 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 2: not everyone did, but it's a yeah, you're right. As 465 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 2: people started seeing this is not something that we should fear, 466 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 2: and they got back in and so forget it. We're 467 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 2: just going to live our lives. And I think that 468 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 2: was another great part of the sole thing at the 469 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 2: end of the day. 470 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: But to your point, you know, thank god for people 471 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: like Governor DeSantis fighting against the federal government and saying 472 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: we're just not going to do this year, this makes 473 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: no sense, and having the guts and you know, the 474 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 1: fortitude to do that. So you know, you got the 475 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: Continental Congress starts meeting in seventeen seventy four, and then 476 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: we've got the declaration, the signing of the Declaration Dependence 477 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: on July fourth, seventeen seventy six, ratified by the Second 478 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: Continental Congress. Between the first and then this second Continental Congress, 479 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,879 Speaker 1: what sort of because my understanding is like the first 480 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: one that not everyone was really it was more of 481 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: just kind of like setting a message saying, look, this 482 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 1: is sort of what we want. It wasn't really at 483 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: that point of saying, you know, we're we're full throttle, 484 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: we're you know, we're all in on declaring independence. So 485 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: what kind of well, first of all, you know, correct 486 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong. Secondly, what sort of transpired between 487 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: that first one and then declaring independence? That sort of 488 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 1: just you know, for the people kind of hanging out, 489 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,120 Speaker 1: hanging on the side saying I don't know, brought them 490 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: over the edge. 491 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 2: Right, Well, you're exactly right about the first Continental Congress 492 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 2: and John Adams complained they weren't going to do anything, 493 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 2: and so you have they get together in Philadelphia and 494 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 2: they say, all right, well look, let's let's talk about 495 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 2: what's happening here. And then of course they did adopt 496 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 2: became the Suffol Resolves, which were, as I mentioned before, 497 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 2: a nullification process. We're going to nullify any unconstitutional life. 498 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 2: But they weren't willing to break at that point. And 499 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 2: I think that's because, I mean, as Patrick Henry point 500 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 2: pointed out, and has give me liberty to give me 501 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 2: death speech. I mean, this was this was something we 502 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 2: were more inclined to do. People are inclined to suffer. 503 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 2: Weoll EVAs are sufferable. I mean, so they were generally 504 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 2: willing to accept. American people were generally going to accept 505 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 2: these unconstitutional invasions while they could tolerate them. Right, So 506 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 2: this was something that I think in seventeen seventy four 507 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 2: they weren't so committed to independence. Yet certainly there were 508 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 2: people that were. I mean again, Patrick Henry Lady was 509 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 2: he considered Virginia independent much much earlier than this. I 510 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 2: mean this early a seventeen sixty five, but in Sam Adams. 511 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 2: But I think for the most part you had in 512 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 2: the founding generation they were still willing to put the 513 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 2: brakes On, and I think the real change came when 514 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 2: the king rejected their pleas for an olive branch. This 515 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 2: was John Dickinson. He writes the olive branch petition, and 516 00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 2: of course George the Third gets this. At the same 517 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:04,640 Speaker 2: time he gets some male intercepted mail where John Adams says, well, 518 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,959 Speaker 2: nobody really believes this thing anyways, and so George was 519 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 2: not willing at that point to accept any type of compromise. 520 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 2: And then, of course you get seventeen seventy five and 521 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 2: you get the invasion of Lexington and Concord, and I 522 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 2: think that's what really turned people around. They said, okay, well, 523 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 2: if they're going to actually march in and try to 524 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 2: seize our arms, which is what they were doing, that 525 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 2: was the point that there's no turning back. And so 526 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 2: you get that was almost a year before the declaration, 527 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 2: so by seventeen seventy six it was it was a 528 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 2: full break. And you still even have people Dickinson wasn't 529 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 2: going to support independence. Even in seventeen seventy six, you 530 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 2: still have people that weren't on board with it yet. 531 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,120 Speaker 2: But in realizing that, I think most people realize when 532 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 2: there was an armed conflict in Massachusetts, and then of 533 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 2: course you had other events before seventeen before the declaration 534 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 2: as well. This was it. We can't turn back, we 535 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 2: can't say oop, sorry, we're going to We're just going 536 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 2: to say we're going to stay in the empire. There 537 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 2: was no way that was going to happen because the 538 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 2: Parliament was going to do everything they could to force 539 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 2: the colonies to bend to their will, and the king 540 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 2: was not going to support them. And so I think 541 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 2: they believed by that point they really had no choice 542 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 2: by seventeen seventy six except independence. 543 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: So like for the folks like Dickerson that you just mentioned, 544 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 1: was it loyalty? Was it fear? Sort of what was 545 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: holding them back from, you know, being completely on board. 546 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 2: With a well, I think it was a mix of both. 547 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 2: I mean John Dickinson was a very wealthy man in Delaware, 548 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania. He had he had a number of houses, 549 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 2: of course, all of which were burned except his plantation 550 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 2: in Delaware. And they were they were loyal to the crowd. 551 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:42,919 Speaker 2: I mean, this is it'd be no different than any 552 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 2: of us sitting here today and saying my gosh, I 553 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 2: mean that would be a big decision for any of us, 554 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 2: do we want independence? We've been American citizens for all 555 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 2: these years, however old you are, and we've we've been 556 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 2: you know, pro United States for all this time. And 557 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,360 Speaker 2: that's a big decision for people to make, and it's 558 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,239 Speaker 2: not one to be taken lightly. And I think that 559 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 2: was the issue for many of them. They weren't certain 560 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 2: if they wanted that to take that step, And of 561 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 2: course there was some fear too. They knew that if 562 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,719 Speaker 2: they signed their name to that declaration or voted for it, 563 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 2: that could be construed as treason, and so that way 564 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 2: you could forfeit your life and your property in that case. 565 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 2: So this is a big decision to make, and it's 566 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 2: we take this now very light law. We have July fourth, 567 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 2: and everyone shoots off fireworks, we have hot dogs and 568 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:30,120 Speaker 2: ball games. But when that decision was made in Philadelphia 569 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:34,439 Speaker 2: on July second, in fact, and they sat there and 570 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 2: stunned silence. Do we really just do this? Did all 571 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 2: of these people just vote by state for independence? And 572 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 2: there was not a big cheer and this is going 573 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 2: to be a big party. This was, oh my gosh, 574 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 2: what did we just do? And it was a heavy 575 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 2: decision for all the reasons you mentioned, but I think 576 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 2: that they realized the gravity of the situation and what 577 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,239 Speaker 2: was going to happen and what could potentially happen if 578 00:27:58,240 --> 00:27:59,959 Speaker 2: they lost that pushbur independence. 579 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: Of course, it's really heady what they just did, right, 580 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:04,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean they're declaring war. I mean, they're 581 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: they're they're going to go to war. They're they're sending 582 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: their family members, their neighbors, the people they love to war. 583 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a huge, huge thing. 584 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,919 Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's not something to take lightly. And and you know, 585 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 2: when you look at the costs. When they when they 586 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 2: said in the declaration they pledge their lives, their fortunes, 587 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 2: and their sacred honor to this, they really meant it. 588 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,360 Speaker 2: I think that's not something that we can we can 589 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,880 Speaker 2: just flippantly disregard. So many men sacrificed everything for that. 590 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 2: And you know, I often often talked about the Minutemen. 591 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 2: You know, they're in Massachusetts at Lexington and Concord. Imagine 592 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 2: you're in your you're in your bed, it's middle of 593 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 2: the night, and you hear a rider coming down the 594 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 2: road and the regulars are coming out and you have 595 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 2: to get up, grab your grab your musket and head 596 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 2: out the door to go confront the regulars of the 597 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 2: British army, which is one of the best armies in 598 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 2: the world. I mean, maybe only the French were better. 599 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 2: It's it's it's questionable. At that point, they're both about 600 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 2: the same. So here you are a militiaman fighting against 601 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 2: a regular army, and that's something we don't really think about. 602 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 2: These men were not trained to be soldiers like the British. 603 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 2: And so when you think about the Battle of Bunker 604 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 2: Hill and and the the casualties that these militia inflicted 605 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 2: on the on the regulars there. But then you move 606 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 2: forward in time to the Battle of Long Island and 607 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 2: how the British and the Hessians just annihilated the American forces, 608 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 2: and what Washington had to he was crying, he was 609 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 2: weeping as he's watching his men just get plowed over 610 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 2: by the British. And I mean, this is this is 611 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 2: really difficult, a really difficult time, and a really difficult 612 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 2: time for for a lot of people, and a hard 613 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 2: decision to make. And so I don't think we can 614 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 2: ever say enough about these men who were willing to, 615 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 2: you know, walk in knee deep snow at the at 616 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 2: the at the Battle of Trenton to cross the Delaware 617 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 2: River and all the things, all the deprivations and Valley 618 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 2: Forge and in the South where you know, you had 619 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 2: and Charleston patriots executed by the British just because they 620 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 2: supported the cause. And I mean, this is this is 621 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 2: really hard stuff. And so this was not something that 622 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 2: these people took lightly, and we should we should really 623 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 2: celebrate them for this if we really valued independence. 624 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: Do you think they would have won if France hadn't 625 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: gotten involved. 626 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 2: Probably not. The French breaking the blockade and and of 627 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 2: course sending in some reinforcements there in late in the 628 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 2: war was certainly beneficial. And you know, Yorktown would not 629 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 2: have happened without the French. So I don't think that 630 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 2: there's any way the United States can win without it. 631 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 2: And of course they you know, they knew that. I 632 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 2: think they knew that if they didn't get some type 633 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 2: of international support, this war was going to be over 634 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 2: and they were going to lose. And all of these 635 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 2: men who signed a declaration, We're going to go down 636 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 2: as traders, and we would be looking an entirely different situation, 637 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 2: and we wouldn't have the United States today. So the 638 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 2: French were valuable, and of course what did they get 639 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 2: out of it, Just a whole bunch of debt and 640 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 2: in their own revolutions. So the byproduct for the French, 641 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 2: the aftermath of the French was not what I think 642 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,239 Speaker 2: they wanted, But of course it's what we wanted at 643 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 2: the end of the day. 644 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: Well, and obviously, you know, we celebrate Independence Day, we 645 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: celebrate that Declaration of Independence. You know, what is the 646 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: significance of it from your perspective as a historian. 647 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 2: Well, for me, it's the last paragraph. Everyone focuses on 648 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 2: the second in the you know, the line, all men 649 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 2: we hold these streets of weself evident, all men are 650 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 2: created equal. But for me, it's the last paragraph, which 651 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 2: declared that these were free and independent states, because that 652 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 2: sets the basis for the entire structure of the American 653 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 2: government from that point forward. You think about the Articles 654 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 2: of Confederation, well, you had they said it states were independent. 655 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 2: Even when you get to the Constitution, the way it 656 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 2: was sold to the states was that we have a 657 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 2: federal republic, and these states still have powers, all the 658 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 2: powers not delegated to the center. And so we have 659 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 2: this reserved powers idea that comes out of the Declaration. 660 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 2: And you have to understand Jefferson, and the Declaration called 661 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 2: Great Britain a state, and so it was the state 662 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 2: of Great Britain, and you had thirteen independent states, and 663 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 2: state could do all the acts and things which independent 664 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 2: states may have right to. And he said it. And 665 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,239 Speaker 2: so you had thirteen countries that were unified in their 666 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 2: opposition to British and we come together in a federal 667 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 2: union that was basically modeled after what they were living 668 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 2: under before. Right, the central authority could regulate commerce and defense, 669 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 2: international commerce and defense, and then with the Constitution commerce 670 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 2: between the states, and that was it. I mean, everything 671 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 2: else is left to the states. All the things that 672 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 2: we talk about today that we wring our hands over 673 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 2: are really state issues at the end of the day. 674 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 2: And the problem is that we have people focus so 675 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 2: much on the center and we need one size fits 676 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 2: all government for everything. And that's again that's legislating for 677 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 2: us in all cases whatsoever. That's not what the founding 678 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 2: generation would have wanted. So for me, it's that principle 679 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 2: and that last paragraph that really matters moving forward in 680 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 2: American government. 681 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: Do you think that will happen naturally after COVID. I mean, 682 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: for instance, I left New York City because I wanted 683 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: to live freely as an American and move to Florida 684 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,479 Speaker 1: for that very purpose. And we've I've seen a lot 685 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: of this migration. Red states are getting redd like Florida's 686 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: officially a red state when you look at registered Republicans 687 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: in the state. Do you think that separation is sort 688 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: of underway in a way that it hasn't been recently. 689 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I think COVID did a lot to do that. 690 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 2: People are you know, I have people listeners all the 691 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 2: time on my show because this is the theme of 692 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 2: the show is think locally, act locally, right, instead of 693 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 2: think globally, act locally. You got to think locally in 694 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 2: act locally so you can change your life at the 695 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 2: local level. And it's it's something that people don't realize. 696 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 2: And you look at protests as the Supreme Court now 697 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 2: and if you whatever your position on those are, and 698 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 2: I know we're talking to conservatives, so it's people would 699 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 2: laugh at these protesters, But what kind of impact do 700 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 2: you think five ten people are going to have in 701 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 2: the Supreme Court steps? But if they went to their 702 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 2: state capital, that would be larger impact. Or if they 703 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 2: went to their if they went to their city council, 704 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 2: it'd be a larger impact. And so when we start 705 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 2: talking about this idea of decentralization and how important Rhonda 706 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,719 Speaker 2: Santis is for the future of Florida, I think I 707 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 2: hope he stays governor of Florida. And I know that 708 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 2: people want to be president, but we need fifty Ronda Santansis. 709 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,359 Speaker 2: That's what we really need, and that would make it 710 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 2: to where Joe Biden would virtually be irrelevant if we 711 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 2: had states that actually stood up and said, you know what, 712 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 2: you only have these powers and we're not going to 713 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,239 Speaker 2: let you have any others. The government really doesn't have 714 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 2: the central government to really doesn't have the ability to 715 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 2: enforce all the things that they do, and people recognize 716 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 2: that in the nineteenth century, it's the idea of non commandeering. 717 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 2: They can pass all the legislation they want, but they 718 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 2: don't have the resources to enforce all this stuff. The 719 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 2: states are going to have to do it all. So 720 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 2: if the states say forget it, we're just not doing it, 721 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 2: it changes the whole ballgame. And so I think people 722 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 2: are waking up to this, you know, and with the 723 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 2: mass mandates and all these other things that happened during COVID, 724 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 2: and the governor's saying, we're just not We're going to 725 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 2: keep our state open. We're just not going to do 726 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 2: those things. You can have whatever you want in California. 727 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 2: You can have whatever you want in Massachusetts or New York. 728 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:56,800 Speaker 2: But we're going to do what we want to do 729 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 2: in Florida or Alabama or Montana or wherever it was. 730 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 2: We're going to take things differently. And so again that 731 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 2: spirit of this resistance to unconstitutional government, I think is 732 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 2: starting to manifest itself a little better, and people are 733 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 2: voting with their feet. As you said, you go into different states. 734 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:16,760 Speaker 1: Quick break more on the founding generation on the other side, 735 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,320 Speaker 1: fast forward to the Constitution so ratified in seventeen eda, 736 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,359 Speaker 1: in operation since seventeen eighty nine. So Democrats like to 737 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,840 Speaker 1: say we have democracy, Republicans say we have a constitutional republic. 738 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 1: Why does that distinction matter? And sort of what do 739 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 1: you make of that debate that is always happening in 740 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: our country. 741 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 2: Well, I mean the term democracy is a loaded term. 742 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 2: What kind of democracy? Do we have a representative democracy? 743 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 2: Do we have a direct democracy. I mean, what do 744 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,760 Speaker 2: we really have. The founding generation was committed to democracy, 745 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 2: but it was always with a check, right. They didn't 746 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 2: really trust mass popular democracy because they didn't think that 747 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 2: people had enough information or were well educated enough to 748 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 2: make these decisions, oftentimes us. Why you see in the 749 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 2: Constitution itself, there's only one really democratic part of the Constitution, 750 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 2: and that is the House of Representatives. Otherwise, the Senate 751 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 2: was designed to be the state check on the entire system. 752 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 2: The States chose the senators, and of course through the 753 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 2: legislatures themselves, but the states did that originally. And then 754 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,240 Speaker 2: of course the president is elected by the electoral college, 755 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 2: not direct vote. You've got the federal court system, which 756 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 2: is all appointed. So there's a whole lot of anti 757 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 2: democratic stuff in the Constitution because they just didn't really 758 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 2: believe that majoritarian rule was always the best thing. And 759 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 2: they even said it. After the Constitution was written and 760 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 2: it was going through ratification, there was a lot of 761 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,319 Speaker 2: discussion about democracy and how this was going to be 762 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 2: a check on rampant democracy. They thought democracy was ruining 763 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 2: the states. They thought it was the bane of good government. 764 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 2: So these distinctions to make you know, we don't have it. 765 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 2: We don't have a democracy, but I think the best 766 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 2: term is a federal republic with representative government, not direct democracy. 767 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 2: And there were others that were concerned about what majoritarian 768 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 2: rule could do. Right, if it's fifty people here, one 769 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 2: hundred people or one hundred and one people, and fifty 770 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:08,840 Speaker 2: one people get to rule the other fifty, is that 771 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 2: really good government? Or is that tyranny? I mean, because 772 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 2: those fifty people can be abused by fifty one people, 773 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 2: and that's I mean, we don't really think about these 774 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 2: things nowadays, but certainly they did. They understood that you 775 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 2: could have a bad government even with democracy, and so 776 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 2: you had to have some checks on that, which. 777 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: Is why we have things like the electoral college exactly right. 778 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 2: I mean it's the electoral college kept the states in 779 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,839 Speaker 2: the system. It allowed for another layer from the popular vote. 780 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 2: We didn't count the popular vote until until the eighteen twenties, right, 781 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 2: I mean, no, we even knew what it was. It 782 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 2: didn't matter. It only mattered what the electoral college voted. 783 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 2: And that was certainly there to ensure that there was 784 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 2: some more educated person, so to speak, making a decision 785 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 2: about who is going to be president. In the United States. 786 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,799 Speaker 2: But if the presidency was actually we here to that 787 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 2: the way it was actually designed, the president would almost 788 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,840 Speaker 2: be irrelevant here for foreign policy to receive ambassadors, to 789 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 2: make appointments, to make recommendations. But Congress had all the power, 790 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 2: and that's something that Congress wants to hide. Today. We 791 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 2: have executive government because Congress allows it to happen. So 792 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 2: you need to be talking about Congress and what Congress 793 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,799 Speaker 2: needs to do and take their own power back from 794 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,479 Speaker 2: the executive. It's very difficult to do, but it's something 795 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:24,719 Speaker 2: that I think needs to be done in the future. 796 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:25,320 Speaker 2: Moving forward. 797 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: Now that makes a ton of sense. You know, we're 798 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,760 Speaker 1: talking about the founding generation, and we've sort of touched 799 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: on it throughout the conversation, but just get into how 800 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,719 Speaker 1: far are we today from what America was supposed to be. 801 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 2: I think almost one hundred and eighty degrees when you 802 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 2: look at seventeen eighty nine, when the US Congress meets 803 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 2: for the first time and we have the Constitution and 804 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,359 Speaker 2: the way that was sold to the states. I use 805 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 2: that term because it was a ratification process where they 806 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 2: actually had to sell this thing. We had this new constitution. 807 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 2: Not everyone was on board. Where we're going to do. 808 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 2: How's this thing going to work? And the opponents of 809 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 2: the document we're talking about we're going to have a 810 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,359 Speaker 2: government that was going to be oppressive, it was going 811 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 2: to abuse the states, it was going to do all 812 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 2: kinds of one of legal things what ultimately would be 813 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 2: illegal things. And those who supported the proponents of the 814 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 2: document insisted, no, well just look and you can only 815 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 2: do these things and then everything else is left to 816 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 2: the state. So if you just take that ratification process 817 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 2: and then look at where we are and everything is centralized, 818 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,320 Speaker 2: everything is Washington, DC, everything, all the things the general 819 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 2: government does that are completely unconstitutional, I think they would 820 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 2: be the opponents would feel like they're vindicated, Well, we 821 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 2: told you so, and the proponents would have, you know, 822 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 2: egg on their face because this is not the constitution 823 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 2: that they sold during the ratification process, but it's what 824 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 2: we ultimately got. And so I think that the so 825 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,280 Speaker 2: called anti federalists were prescient in what was going to happen. 826 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 2: And I mean, we are not anywhere near what was 827 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 2: sold to the states in seventeen eighty seven and seventeen 828 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:56,560 Speaker 2: eighty eight. 829 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,399 Speaker 1: Well, I think one thing that the Trump administration really 830 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:00,840 Speaker 1: opened a lot. I mean, I guess we saw it 831 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 1: a little bit during the Obama administration with like the 832 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 1: IRS targeting conservatives and things of that nature, or just 833 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 1: like spying on the Senate Intel Committee and reporters and 834 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,319 Speaker 1: the things like that. But we really saw it come 835 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,400 Speaker 1: to a head during the Trump administration sort of this 836 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 1: administrative state, this deep state, these bureaucrats sort of subverting 837 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,280 Speaker 1: the will of the American people. How do you scale 838 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 1: back government at this point? Is is it too late 839 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:25,399 Speaker 1: when you look at something like that. 840 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,400 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the set, I don't think you can 841 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,279 Speaker 2: reform Washington DC, but again there's certainly cracks and what 842 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,319 Speaker 2: it can do. And you can even look at things 843 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 2: the left does, for example, sanctuary cities, which is something 844 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 2: that when we talk about immigration, a lot of these 845 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,640 Speaker 2: sanctuary city laws written in the nineteen eighties, and it was, 846 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,279 Speaker 2: you know what we're going to do here. We're not 847 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,280 Speaker 2: going to enforce the federal government coming in and rounding 848 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,680 Speaker 2: up aliens. They can come in all they want and 849 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:53,319 Speaker 2: do it, but we're just not going to use state 850 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,560 Speaker 2: resources or local resources to do it. And you know 851 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:57,719 Speaker 2: what happened. They didn't have the resources to go do it, 852 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,400 Speaker 2: and so they just the state just said we're just 853 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,239 Speaker 2: not going to do these things. And I think that 854 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 2: is the key moving forward. We have to think about 855 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,919 Speaker 2: bottom up, not top down. Washington is lost. It doesn't 856 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 2: matter if we elect Ronda Santis or Donald Trump or 857 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 2: take your pick of Republican. It doesn't matter if the 858 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,960 Speaker 2: Republicans control Congress, because we know that they don't overdo 859 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 2: I mean, look, they're impotent oftentimes, and what they even, 860 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:23,480 Speaker 2: they don't follow through on anything they say they're going 861 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:27,319 Speaker 2: to do most of the time. So reforming Washington DC 862 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,960 Speaker 2: is lost. But you can look at Ronda Santis and everything. 863 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 2: I mean, if you're in Florida right now, which you 864 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 2: say you're in Florida, he's doing amazing things there and 865 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:41,799 Speaker 2: pushing back against the cancel culture in the culture War 866 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 2: and everything else. It's amazing what Ronda Santis is doing. 867 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,359 Speaker 2: And so that is the key moving forward. I think 868 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 2: if we want to take things back in America, if 869 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 2: we want to make America great again, it has to 870 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,640 Speaker 2: come from the bottom up. That's the only way it's 871 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:56,720 Speaker 2: going to happen. And the states have all the authority 872 00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:58,319 Speaker 2: and all the power to do it. It's just a 873 00:41:58,360 --> 00:41:59,320 Speaker 2: matter if they're willing. 874 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,759 Speaker 1: To do it. Well, And to your point about Governor Desanta's, 875 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,080 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not only our own government, like and 876 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: people within it trying to subvert the will of the 877 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,319 Speaker 1: American people. We also now corporations that have come to 878 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,840 Speaker 1: the party who are sort of aligning themselves with d 879 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 1: C and enforcing their will on you know, Americans and 880 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 1: enforcing like the governments will on Americans. You know, how 881 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,600 Speaker 1: do you sort of what's your take on that? Like 882 00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 1: we saw the recent fight with Disney and things of 883 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,320 Speaker 1: that nature, big tech, you know, all these different things. 884 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:28,640 Speaker 2: Well, again, I think the states can regulate that kind 885 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,200 Speaker 2: of thing. You know, the Santas is going after Disney. Well, okay, 886 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:33,680 Speaker 2: if you want all these state kickbacks, well then you 887 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:35,440 Speaker 2: have to do you have to tow the line. And 888 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,400 Speaker 2: corporations the idea of a corporate person I mean that 889 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,000 Speaker 2: corporate personhood is the problem there. But the other thing 890 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,239 Speaker 2: average Americans can do. Of course, if you don't like 891 00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,840 Speaker 2: what Coca Cola or Disney or you know, the NFL 892 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 2: or what take your pick of some corporation you don't 893 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:50,880 Speaker 2: like was doing, we'll just stop buying their products. This 894 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,120 Speaker 2: is exactly what the founding generation. They were just going 895 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,759 Speaker 2: to boycott your stuff, And the left does this pretty 896 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,319 Speaker 2: effectively at times. Conservatives tend not to follow through where 897 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 2: they get ticked off for a little while and then 898 00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 2: they just keep going what they're doing. But that economic bustle, 899 00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 2: I think is something that needs to be said and 900 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:10,560 Speaker 2: it needs to be done. We saw it with with 901 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,000 Speaker 2: Disney here in this new movie, the light Year movie. 902 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:15,480 Speaker 2: Apparently it bombed the box office because people said, we're 903 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:17,520 Speaker 2: just not going to tolerate this, and we're not going 904 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,160 Speaker 2: to bring our kids to this. It's not something we 905 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:23,239 Speaker 2: want to do. So there is a pushback that can 906 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,239 Speaker 2: happen with finances if you really want to. And then 907 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,640 Speaker 2: of course also the state's getting involved and saying, if 908 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 2: you want to incorporate in our state, then you're not 909 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,080 Speaker 2: going to do X, Y and Z, and I think 910 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,719 Speaker 2: that's also a key to reigning in some of these 911 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:36,680 Speaker 2: corporations as well. 912 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 1: You know, obviously there's a conversation happening in the country 913 00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,279 Speaker 1: right now about the Second Amendment. What's the role of 914 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,840 Speaker 1: the Second Amendment in our amendment in our lives? A 915 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:45,840 Speaker 1: lot of dispute about what the meaning of the Second 916 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:50,000 Speaker 1: Amendment was with the purpose was from a historical perspective, 917 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,640 Speaker 1: what was the purpose of the Second Amendment and does 918 00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:53,800 Speaker 1: that still hold true today? 919 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:55,520 Speaker 2: Well, of course, the purpose of the Second Amendment was 920 00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,319 Speaker 2: to ensure that the United States had a militia, right, 921 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,239 Speaker 2: I mean, and so when you think about the Constitution, 922 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:05,160 Speaker 2: it says very clearly in the Constitution without the Second Amendment, 923 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,120 Speaker 2: that the central government can arm the militia. Well, of course, 924 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,040 Speaker 2: the theory was that they could arm the militia, then 925 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,160 Speaker 2: they could disarm the militia, and the militia was every 926 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,400 Speaker 2: able body citizen between eighteen and forty five, and so 927 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:18,680 Speaker 2: when there was a discussion of a Bill of rights, 928 00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:20,640 Speaker 2: it was okay, well, look if they we need to 929 00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,880 Speaker 2: ensure that they can't disarm us and make us impotent, 930 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,799 Speaker 2: and so that the state can come in or the 931 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,359 Speaker 2: central authority can come in and simply run rough shot 932 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:33,799 Speaker 2: over us. So the states controlled the militia, and of 933 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:38,040 Speaker 2: course the states controlled the essentially the arming of citizens. 934 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:41,040 Speaker 2: And so now it's interesting about that when when the 935 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,160 Speaker 2: First Congress met, they actually passed the militia Law that 936 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,799 Speaker 2: established the fact that every male had to be armed, 937 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 2: they had to have a certain had to have a firearm, 938 00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:50,319 Speaker 2: they had a certain amount of powder, a certain amount 939 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:51,920 Speaker 2: of ammunition. So they could arm the militia, but they 940 00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,759 Speaker 2: could not disarm them. And so the Second Amendment is 941 00:44:54,880 --> 00:45:00,040 Speaker 2: vital to our understanding of what an armed civilian population 942 00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:04,560 Speaker 2: is therefore, which is to prevent centralized tyranny. And I 943 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,680 Speaker 2: think there's there's no other way around it. Certainly states 944 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,560 Speaker 2: can do more than the central government can. But I've 945 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:13,400 Speaker 2: always maintained any gun control legislation from the central authority 946 00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,080 Speaker 2: is illegal the states. There's a lot more wiggle room 947 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,640 Speaker 2: there depending on the state constitutions. But certainly this is 948 00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:22,719 Speaker 2: something that the left is politicized again looking at things 949 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:26,439 Speaker 2: from present status instead of thinking about it the way 950 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,760 Speaker 2: that it's just a natural right to self defense. 951 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,000 Speaker 1: Well, and I mean the Battle of lexingon Concord, didn't 952 00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,160 Speaker 1: I mean they were coming for guns exactly right. 953 00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,319 Speaker 2: I mean, that's they were. They were trying to disarm 954 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:39,400 Speaker 2: the militia, and that was that was what was happening 955 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,960 Speaker 2: in seventeen seventy five. So they were they had a 956 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,239 Speaker 2: central armory there, and but that was the ide me. 957 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:47,680 Speaker 2: You have those in the United States. Now you have 958 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,600 Speaker 2: National Guard armory. So imagine the US government coming in 959 00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:52,279 Speaker 2: and saying we're going to take this away from you. 960 00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,800 Speaker 2: And of course the National Guard is a whole other monster, 961 00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,080 Speaker 2: and what that means is changing the nature of the 962 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,360 Speaker 2: militia there. But this is what was happening in seventeen 963 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,160 Speaker 2: seventy five. So the idea is, we're going to disarm 964 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:04,799 Speaker 2: you and we're going to take away your firearms so 965 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,400 Speaker 2: you cannot resist any of our unconstitutional laws. And I 966 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,120 Speaker 2: think at the end of the day, that's something we 967 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,879 Speaker 2: have to recognize and realize was one of the main 968 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:14,920 Speaker 2: parts of this American War for independence. 969 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,319 Speaker 1: Well, and I think what's really important about this conversation 970 00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:19,640 Speaker 1: with you is I think, you know, look, I was 971 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:21,600 Speaker 1: a little bit naive before COVID to be I mean, 972 00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:23,840 Speaker 1: I always saw that the government was a bad actor. 973 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,319 Speaker 1: You know, we've seen numerous examples, and the government's pretty 974 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,000 Speaker 1: much always lie to us our entire lives. But I 975 00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,279 Speaker 1: think for whatever reason, I still was naive to the 976 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:35,839 Speaker 1: fact that tyranny could get reborn here in America, right 977 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,279 Speaker 1: like we were somewhat immune to tyranny, despite you know, 978 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 1: Reagan and beautiful quotes that he's made about freedom being 979 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:45,239 Speaker 1: one generation away from extinction and COVID just really opened 980 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 1: my eyes, and I think it opened a lot of 981 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,560 Speaker 1: people's eyes to the fact that, like, tyranny is here, 982 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:52,560 Speaker 1: the threat is real, and you know, we have to 983 00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:53,760 Speaker 1: fight for liberty in America. 984 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,279 Speaker 2: Absolutely. And I think if you look at when this 985 00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,720 Speaker 2: process really began was in the middle of the twentieth 986 00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:03,560 Speaker 2: century and basically the Truman administration, and we created this 987 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,040 Speaker 2: deep state that we have, and at the end of 988 00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:10,160 Speaker 2: World War Two, we didn't demobilize. We just kept all 989 00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:12,000 Speaker 2: the programs in place from the New Deal and then 990 00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,080 Speaker 2: also everything that was used to fight the war, and 991 00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,920 Speaker 2: we've just kept that in place. And all of that 992 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,759 Speaker 2: deep state apparatus and the creation of the politicized CIA 993 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,160 Speaker 2: and a militarized CIA and the FBI and everything that 994 00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:28,680 Speaker 2: happens there, all of that is a byproduct of extreme 995 00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,319 Speaker 2: centralization during World War Two, and it's always been there. 996 00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:36,279 Speaker 2: It's just that people haven't really recognized that they've lived 997 00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,000 Speaker 2: their lives and they just think the FBI just hurts 998 00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,480 Speaker 2: everybody else, or the CIA hurts everybody else, or the 999 00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,319 Speaker 2: central government hurts everybody else but not me. But now 1000 00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,239 Speaker 2: with COVID, they saw well, I mean, if they can 1001 00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:47,960 Speaker 2: do these things of these people, they can do it 1002 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,000 Speaker 2: to us too. And so I think that's really where 1003 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:55,120 Speaker 2: this deep state apparatus was in place, and it was 1004 00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:58,680 Speaker 2: there just to use, and we saw it during twenty 1005 00:47:58,680 --> 00:47:59,759 Speaker 2: twenty and twenty twenty one. 1006 00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:01,880 Speaker 1: Man, I could honestly talk to you for hours. This 1007 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,880 Speaker 1: is one of the more fascinating conversations I've had. But 1008 00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,360 Speaker 1: you know, in the interest of time, is there anything 1009 00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,440 Speaker 1: else you'd like to leave us with before we go? 1010 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,000 Speaker 2: Well, again, I think it's important to understand that the 1011 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,640 Speaker 2: the Founding Generation was committed to independence, committed to decentralization, 1012 00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,240 Speaker 2: they were committed to local government, and they were committed 1013 00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:20,560 Speaker 2: to running their own lives. And if we can do 1014 00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,080 Speaker 2: any if we can live any way like the Founding Generation, 1015 00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,440 Speaker 2: it would be that think locally, act locally. Idea. Make 1016 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,680 Speaker 2: sure you're going to your city council meetings, make sure 1017 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,440 Speaker 2: you're paying attention to your state legislatures. Make sure you're 1018 00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,560 Speaker 2: paying attention to your governors. That's more important than anything else. 1019 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,920 Speaker 2: Vote in those local elections, get people in those local elections, 1020 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,480 Speaker 2: and in your we've seen you Texas GOP. Their platform 1021 00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:45,399 Speaker 2: is now national news because they're thinking about decentralization. They're 1022 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,000 Speaker 2: thinking about what can the local do to ensure that 1023 00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:49,920 Speaker 2: we have the liberties and freedoms we want in the 1024 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:53,960 Speaker 2: state of Texas. So this is important. It's you just 1025 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,040 Speaker 2: don't focus on Donald Trump or Joe Biden or whoever's 1026 00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,440 Speaker 2: in Congress. Think about these people at the state and 1027 00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,960 Speaker 2: local level, and get people on an office there. You 1028 00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,160 Speaker 2: do it yourself that want to are committed and want 1029 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,480 Speaker 2: to pursue these ideas of independence and decentralization. That at 1030 00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,200 Speaker 2: the end of the day is what we can type 1031 00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:11,320 Speaker 2: away from the founding generation. 1032 00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:12,880 Speaker 1: Where can people find your work? 1033 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:14,920 Speaker 2: You can go to Brian Theplanna Hand dot com is 1034 00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,800 Speaker 2: bron Theplanning Hand dot com and you can find everything 1035 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:20,920 Speaker 2: that I do there, my podcast, my academy, all the 1036 00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,000 Speaker 2: stuff that I do. So it's I appreciate any of 1037 00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:24,440 Speaker 2: your listeners going out there and checking me out. 1038 00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:25,960 Speaker 1: Thank you, sir. I appreciate your time. This has been 1039 00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,400 Speaker 1: fascinating and I think a really important conversation. So I 1040 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:29,200 Speaker 1: really appreciate it. 1041 00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:30,640 Speaker 2: Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. 1042 00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,520 Speaker 1: So that was long though. I hope you guys at 1043 00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,480 Speaker 1: home listen to that about the importance of independence, the 1044 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:51,439 Speaker 1: importance of liberty, what our founding generation believed, and why 1045 00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:55,520 Speaker 1: we should still care about those principles today as we 1046 00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,319 Speaker 1: celebrate Independence Day, as we go out and spend time 1047 00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:02,000 Speaker 1: with friends and family. Liberty is the most important and 1048 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,600 Speaker 1: if we lose it, we lose our country. So I 1049 00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,439 Speaker 1: really appreciated his time. I thought he was an amazing guest. 1050 00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,200 Speaker 1: Definitely we'll have him back on the show for sure. 1051 00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:11,719 Speaker 1: You guys should go check out his work. And thank 1052 00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,360 Speaker 1: you all for listening at home. I really appreciate you 1053 00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,120 Speaker 1: tuning in every Monday and Thursday to this show. Also 1054 00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:19,840 Speaker 1: want to make my teammate, my producer, John Cassio, for 1055 00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,799 Speaker 1: working so hard to bring this show to you and 1056 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,160 Speaker 1: for us. So thanks so much for listening. Guys. Happy 1057 00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:28,560 Speaker 1: fourth of July, Happy Independence Day.