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Speaker 1: Hey, Latino USA listener. So this is a sobering reality.

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Speaker 2: We know it.

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Speaker 1: All too many lives are lost to guns across the

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Speaker 1: United States every single day. Mass shootings have devastated entire

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Speaker 1: communities in El Paso, in Uvaldi, both of where I

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Speaker 1: have been tragedies that have broken our collective hearts and

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Speaker 1: that we've covered here at Latino USA. And the first

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Speaker 1: question we usually ask is why why did this happen?

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Speaker 1: But a new podcast called The Gun Machine from our

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Speaker 1: colleagues at WBUR and The Trace, seeks to remind us

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Speaker 1: what we usually forget, that in this country there are

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Speaker 1: centuries of history of violence that got us here. Hosted

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Speaker 1: by reporter Alan Stevens, The Gun Machine looks into the

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Speaker 1: past to understand where we are now. For example, how

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Speaker 1: early partnerships between mad scientists, gunsmiths, and a fledgling US

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Speaker 1: gouvern that actually created the gun industry in the Northeast,

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Speaker 1: and a look at how that industry has been partners

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Speaker 1: with the government well ever since today. We share with

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Speaker 1: you episode two where Alan talks to a historian about

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Speaker 1: the racist roots of the Second Amendment and he travels

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Speaker 1: down to Florida where he talks to black gun owners

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Speaker 1: about why they carry looking at the link between our

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Speaker 1: nation's fraud history and why it's so easy to sell

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Speaker 1: us guns today. And a warning to our listeners. This

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Speaker 1: episode includes some explicit language, so be prepared. Here's episode

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Speaker 1: two of the Gun Machine.

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Speaker 2: If there's one thing to know about America, it's that

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Speaker 2: it's a land of revolution, and no one would know

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Speaker 2: that better than a Virginia blacksmith with a plan, Gabriel Prosser.

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Speaker 3: He and his brother had in fact created swords as

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Speaker 3: part of their weapons in order to fight this rebellion,

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Speaker 3: but they knew the swords.

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Speaker 2: Gabriel and other early American arrivals had grown tired of

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Speaker 2: working under the boot heel of an institution they had

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Speaker 2: no stake in creating, no rights, a world where your

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Speaker 2: life and livelihood were dictated by born status, not merit.

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Speaker 2: So he spread the word to nearly a thousand like

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Speaker 2: minded men with a promise.

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Speaker 3: He said that all of those who believed in liberty

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Speaker 3: would be able to be in this incredible space, would

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Speaker 3: be able to enjoy this vibrant democracy.

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Speaker 2: Gabriel's enemies are better armed, organized, and already suspicious of sedition.

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Speaker 2: If he and his men were planning on getting out alive.

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Speaker 2: His operation would have to be executed sharply, swiftly, perfectly.

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Speaker 3: The plan was to have basically three divisions. One division

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Speaker 3: would set a warehouse on fire as a diversionary tactic.

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Speaker 3: The other division would go to the treasury and get

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Speaker 3: the money in order to be able to pay for

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Speaker 3: the insurgents. And the other division would go to the

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Speaker 3: armory and get the guns and the ammunition that they

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Speaker 3: needed in order to fight for their liberty.

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Speaker 2: You see, Gabriel Prosser and his conspirators were some of

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Speaker 2: America's first patriots, but you never know it because they

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Speaker 2: were black. An enemy they were fighting was the United States,

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Speaker 2: to be specific, the plantation. The gun machine looks a

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Speaker 2: number of slave people accounted for nearly forty percent. Sure

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Speaker 2: you episode two where Alan talks to Historian and his

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Speaker 2: followers needed guns to take on the government. Gabe's rebellion

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Speaker 2: would ultimately be dashed a freak storm on the even

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Speaker 2: the attack shook the resolve of the men one more

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Speaker 2: than the others. In particular, a conspirator named Pharaoh.

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Speaker 3: He's sitting out there and the rain and the thunder

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Speaker 3: is hitting and every time there was a crack of lightning,

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Speaker 3: every time there was a burst of thunder. His nerves

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Speaker 3: were shattering, and so he was like, Okay, we're gonna die.

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Speaker 2: We're just gonna die.

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Speaker 3: He's like, I'm going to be free, but I'm going

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Speaker 3: to be free by telling my master about this plot.

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Speaker 2: Altogether, some seventy men would be arrested, Gabriel his brother,

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Speaker 2: and twenty three others would be made examples of and hanged.

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Speaker 2: A few others would be sold to plantations out of state,

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Speaker 2: and two would be granted freedom for being informants to

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Speaker 2: the government. Many Americans may have heard of the Nat

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Speaker 2: Turner Rebellion in Virginia or the Stono Rebellion in South Carolina.

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Speaker 2: As a black journalist covering the history of American violence,

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Speaker 2: I discovered that there were nearly three hundred slave revolts

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Speaker 2: throughout the course of American history, most of which have

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Speaker 2: been purposely erased. And the erasure of those stories is

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Speaker 2: connected to the gun I'm Alan Stevens, and you're listening

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Speaker 2: to The Gun Machine How America Was Forged by the

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Speaker 2: Gun Industry, a podcast by WBR and The Trace. On

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Speaker 2: the last episode of The Gun Machine we explain how

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Speaker 2: America built its early gun industry. In this episode, we

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Speaker 2: have to go back to the actual beginning and ask

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Speaker 2: the why, what type of the sign necessitate the need

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Speaker 2: for not just militaries to be armed but everyone all

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Speaker 2: the time? Today we talk about America's foundation a fear

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Speaker 2: and how the gun industry was built on top of it.

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Speaker 2: Chapter two, Why we Carry It's the sixteen hundreds. In

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Speaker 2: Central Europe, two things are about to happen that will

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Speaker 2: change the world forever. The first is the invention of

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Speaker 2: the flintlock musket. Before that, the systems that sparked the

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Speaker 2: gunpowder and guns were finicky and wet or humid conditions.

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Speaker 2: But the flintluck musket was reliable, battle tested and therefore

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Speaker 2: primed to be exported outside of the mild European temperatures.

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Speaker 2: And secondly, the Protestant Reformation had swept through Europe. The

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Speaker 2: Catholic Church had long banned the sales of European guns

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Speaker 2: to non Catholic nations, but Protestant churches didn't care the

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Speaker 2: Catholics to abandon their policy, sparking a mass selloff. Europeans

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Speaker 2: dumping guns into new countries, and it was in Africa

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Speaker 2: where Europeans will find the closest and most worthwhile commodity

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Speaker 2: for trade, human cargo. And just like that, the Triangle

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Speaker 2: slave trade was born. The guns for bodies trade was

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Speaker 2: so high that by the eighteenth century, records show gunpowder

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Speaker 2: accounted for nearly forty percent of European imports to Africa.

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Speaker 2: But the firearm wasn't just the lubricant of the slave

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Speaker 2: trade abroad, it was also its guarantee right here in America.

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Speaker 2: The invention of the firearm was a force multiplier. It

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Speaker 2: was the gun that made colonial slavery even possible u

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Speaker 2: see Berkeley history professor Brian Delay says the firearm now

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Speaker 2: gave regular working colonists the ability to control those in bondage,

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Speaker 2: even if they were outnumbered.

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Speaker 4: Slavery was a fact in every single colony, and of

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Speaker 4: course it was concentrated in the southern colonies. And slavery

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Speaker 4: doesn't work without a weapons gap.

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Speaker 2: By seventeen seventy five, before we were the United States

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Speaker 2: of anything, twenty percent of America's colonial population was enslaved Africans,

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Speaker 2: most of them living in the South, all of whom

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Speaker 2: posed a potential security risk to established order.

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Speaker 4: This required the able bodied, adult male population of white

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Speaker 4: colonists to be armed at a far higher rate than, say,

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Speaker 4: was the case among average working people in Great Britain

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Speaker 4: at the time.

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Speaker 2: So, if I was a black person living, say in

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Speaker 2: seventeenth century America, how would I go about getting my

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Speaker 2: hands on a gun? And what opportunities could that make

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Speaker 2: for me?

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Speaker 3: You would have the opportunity to be whipped thirty nine lash,

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Speaker 3: that's the opportunity that you had.

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Speaker 2: This is Carol Anderson, a professor of African American history

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Speaker 2: at Emmer University, who has been investigating something you probably

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Speaker 2: haven't heard about in school, the link between the Second

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Speaker 2: Amendment an America's long history of slavery and racism. Let

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Speaker 2: me go ahead and burst that bubble and hurt your

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Speaker 2: feelings right now, most Americans subscribe to certain myths about

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Speaker 2: the foundation of our country. We hold these truths to

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Speaker 2: be self evident, that all men are created equal, But

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Speaker 2: that was never the case. The South had gone all

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Speaker 2: in on plantation slavery from the start, which brings me

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Speaker 2: to the next myth that plantation slavery as a system

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Speaker 2: just somehow worked, when in fact, the slave economy was

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Speaker 2: a dangerous economy, large scale slave rebellions continuously rocked country,

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Speaker 2: not to mention many other individual acts of defiance and

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Speaker 2: violence in the face of enslavement, enslave people fighting back

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Speaker 2: against their enslaver. I'm talking about stabbings, beheading shootings, real

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Speaker 2: heavy metal shit. But it also meant that plantation societies

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Speaker 2: had to function like prison societies. So if you had

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Speaker 2: to imagine the South, imagine a network of omnipresent slave

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Speaker 2: patrols on the horizons, contraband and shakedowns, and the constant

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Speaker 2: looming suspicion that at any given time these plantation owners

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Speaker 2: could all get their little slaving heads cut off. In

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Speaker 2: sixteen eighty, Virginia prohibits black people from using a gun

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Speaker 2: in self defense against white attackers, even if they are free.

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Speaker 2: In sixteen eighty one, the Colony of New York bans

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Speaker 2: black people from having any sort of weapons. Seventeen forty one,

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Speaker 2: North Carolina's legislature implements state paid bounties for slaves and

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Speaker 2: the right for patrollers to keep any guns and other

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Speaker 2: contraband plus off the enslaved as personal rewards during shakedowns.

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Speaker 2: And this was all before the Revolutionary War. Even took place.

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Speaker 2: By the time the colonies began drafting the Constitution, there

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Speaker 2: was no standing military, and the creation of one would

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Speaker 2: be highly regulated. But at the same time, a number

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Speaker 2: of Southern colonies were concerned with the more internal threat

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Speaker 2: to their peculiar institution, so they demanded the Constitution include

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Speaker 2: a security backstop to their enterprise, give us the ability

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Speaker 2: to carry guns, quation surgencies, and support the web of

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Speaker 2: slave patrols that had already been established.

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Speaker 3: The bad history that we have had about the Second Amendment,

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Speaker 3: how it gets cloaked in this nobility of the militia

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Speaker 3: fighting off domestic tyranny and fighting off a foreign invasion,

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Speaker 3: when in fact the militia really wasn't really good at

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Speaker 3: I of those. What it was effective at was putting

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Speaker 3: down slave revolts.

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Speaker 2: Without the Second Amendment, many southern colonial forefathers refused to

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Speaker 2: ratify the Constitution at all.

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Speaker 3: The Second Amendment was the bribe to the South to

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Speaker 3: not scuttle the Constitution of the United States and to

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Speaker 3: therefore not scuttle the nation itself. And it was George

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Speaker 3: Mason talking about, we will be left defenseless if this

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Speaker 3: militia is put under the control of the Feds. We

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Speaker 3: cannot trust the federal government to protect us from these

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Speaker 3: black people.

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Speaker 2: Now, I know what you're thinking, why don't I know

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Speaker 2: about all this? And that is actually by design. First

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Speaker 2: and foremost Americans still struggled to talk about the national

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Speaker 2: embarrassment that was slavery. We don't like to think of

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Speaker 2: our society as violent, and after the writing of the Constitution,

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Speaker 2: it just gets more violent. Like I said earlier, there

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Speaker 2: were nearly three hundreds slave uprisings from the country's inception

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Speaker 2: to the end of the Civil War. And if you

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Speaker 2: read abolitionist newspaper clippings from the Antebellum era, you hear

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Speaker 2: of countless other tales of violence and threat escaped slaves

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Speaker 2: using contraband revolvers to shoot it out with captors, enslave

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Speaker 2: women bludgeting to debt their white assaulters, apparent killing their

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Speaker 2: own child rather than return them to the horrors of servitude.

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Speaker 2: But there is another reason we don't know about it,

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Speaker 2: and that is a strategic one. Back in the eighteen hundreds,

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Speaker 2: insurrection was bad for business. In the eighteen sixties, the

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Speaker 2: economic value of the enslaved was worth four billion dollars

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Speaker 2: and today's money that comes out closer to forty two trillion.

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Speaker 2: That was more than all the banks, factories, and railroads

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Speaker 2: in the US were worth at the time. Stories and

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Speaker 2: plans of rebellion were inspired to black people, and the

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Speaker 2: US government was aware of this and acutely aware of

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Speaker 2: similar things going on international with successful slaver votes in

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Speaker 2: places like Haiti. So there was a desire to keep

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Speaker 2: these stories out of public view.

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Speaker 3: The Haitian Revolution, I've got to say up front, scared

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Speaker 3: the bejeebers out of the founding fathers. When you look

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Speaker 3: at their correspondence, they're like, oh, my god, did you

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Speaker 3: see what just happened in zent domain. Oh if those

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Speaker 3: ideas come here, we are going to be in trouble.

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Speaker 3: If black people believe that they can be free, that

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Speaker 3: these ideas about liberty and justice apply to them, we

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Speaker 3: are doomed.

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Speaker 2: So these stories were erased from American history, But that

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Speaker 2: fear of black people and the need to defend oneself

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Speaker 2: from black people didn't go away after the end of

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Speaker 2: slavery with the Civil War. In fact, in many regards,

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Speaker 2: those fears got worse.

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Speaker 5: When thinking about what makes America unique, you know, it's

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Speaker 5: really not that much of a skip and jump to see, well,

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Speaker 5: is there anything to do with our history of enslavement,

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Speaker 5: our history of civil war in the ways that we've

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Speaker 5: thought about who is safe and who is dangerous in

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Speaker 5: our country.

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Speaker 2: Nicholas Buttrick is a professor of social psychology at the

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Speaker 2: University of Wisconsin in Madison. He has spent the last

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Speaker 2: couple of years researching how and why America formed its

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Speaker 2: current gun culture. What he found was a great deal

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Speaker 2: of how we view the need to carry guns today

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Speaker 2: stems from the attitudes formed in the wake of reconstruction.

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Speaker 5: You have emancipation, and with emancipation comes the rise of

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Speaker 5: black political power, and for the white Antebellum elite, it

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Speaker 5: seems as if this is something that cannot stand West.

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Speaker 1: You're wrong.

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Speaker 6: I do want to escape too.

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Speaker 7: I'm so very tired of it all. I've struggled for

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Speaker 7: food and for money, the.

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Speaker 8: Weed and holden piccottontil I can stand in another minute.

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Speaker 7: I tell you asked that the South is dead. It's dead.

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Speaker 5: The Yanks in the common din't gotten.

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Speaker 9: There's nothing left for us.

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Speaker 2: This line from Gone with the Wind may seem melodramatic

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Speaker 2: to us, but for Scarlet o' hear and crew, it

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Speaker 2: was an understatement. The American South during reconstruction was a hellhole.

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Speaker 2: Akin to any modern post war occupational environment you'd see today.

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Speaker 2: Law and order was nearly abandoned. Basic commodities were scarce.

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Speaker 2: The only thing and ready supply where the newly free

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Speaker 2: black Americans beginning to cement their burgeoning political power, and

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Speaker 2: an avalanche of post war guns. White Americans in the

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Speaker 2: South lose their goddamn minds at the new status quo.

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Speaker 5: A lot of the speeches that these redeemers were using

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Speaker 5: is that they seem to anchor a lot of sort

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Speaker 5: of southernness, Southern masculinity, ways of restoring a Southern way

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Speaker 5: of life in firearms specifically, and I think this makes

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Speaker 5: a lot of sense that the South, while destroyed physically,

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Speaker 5: was just totally a wash in firearms.

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Speaker 2: Homicide rates were eighteen times higher in the South than

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Speaker 2: they were in the North, and these guns were different.

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Speaker 2: The Civil War was one of the first conflicts with

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Speaker 2: mechanized production of guns. Soldiers return home with high quality

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Speaker 2: weapons and lots of them.

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Speaker 5: And you also have a really dangerous society. You have

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Speaker 5: murder rates that are completely out of control and so

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Speaker 5: you have a dangerous world with a lot of weapons,

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Speaker 5: and it maybe makes sense that rich white Southerners might

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Speaker 5: look to different sorts of ways of picking out how

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Speaker 5: to suppress black power into rally white power. And one

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Speaker 5: of the items we think that was really super salient

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Speaker 5: were all these guns.

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Speaker 2: White Southerners formed hundreds of so called rifle clubs, claiming

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Speaker 2: they needed to defend themselves against black people, even though

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Speaker 2: most of the murders at the time were white on white.

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Speaker 2: The clubs were actually armed white supremacist groups meant to

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Speaker 2: intimidate voters and diminish black political power. This started forming

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Speaker 2: a modern gun identity and set forth ideas in people

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Speaker 2: about what the government could and couldn't do. In the

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Speaker 2: reconstruction South, state constitutions were being rewritten for the first

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Speaker 2: time black people had political power. Many white Southerners didn't

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Speaker 2: trust the government to represent their interest, to protect them

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Speaker 2: and their sense of order, so they felt they had

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Speaker 2: to take matters into their own hands, and guns were

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Speaker 2: an important symbol. Buttrick's research makes one thing abundantly clear.

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Speaker 2: The counties with the highest rates of enslavement before the

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Speaker 2: Civil War are the places where today we see the

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Speaker 2: highest rates of gun ownership and by following social media connections.

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Speaker 2: Buttrick also found that as those same Americans have migrated

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Speaker 2: around the country, so have those ideas about guns. The

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Speaker 2: communities with the deepest social and cultural ties to slaveholding

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Speaker 2: counties carry similar feelings about gun ownership in the present day.

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Speaker 2: His research also suggests that while people think of guns

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Speaker 2: as a defense against physical threats, they're also using them

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Speaker 2: as a defense against psychological threats.

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Speaker 5: Guns become a sort of a totem or a charm

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Speaker 5: that help gun owners to feel their lives are more meaningful,

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Speaker 5: that they have or control, and that they feel safer.

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Speaker 2: It's also an identity that has fueled gun companies and

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Speaker 2: gun sales.

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Speaker 5: And so I think that the Civil War and its

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Speaker 5: aftermaths set a template, but the template that we've then

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Speaker 5: been building on as a society for quite a while.

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Speaker 5: And so it's not just that these things happened once

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Speaker 5: and ended. You know that there is quite a lot

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Speaker 5: of advertising, quite a lot of marketing which is sort

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Speaker 5: of reinforcing these beliefs that we've had about how guns work.

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Speaker 2: And for one hundred years, white people become ingrained with

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Speaker 2: the notion that firearms in this country equals autonomy, identity,

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Speaker 2: and most of all power. And that's all fine and

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Speaker 2: dandy until black people start getting guns too.

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Speaker 10: The Black Panthers first made national news just a year

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Speaker 10: ago when they entered the state.

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Speaker 3: Capitol and Sacramento armed with rifles and pistols.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen sixty seven, when the Panthers march on the

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Speaker 2: Capitol legally carrying guns to protest a newly proposed gun

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Speaker 2: control bill. Then Governor Ronald Reagan would respond by signing

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Speaker 2: it into law, banning public carry without a permit. The

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Speaker 2: NRA would approve it, would become the state's first major

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Speaker 2: piece of legislation restricting the right to carry a gun,

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Speaker 2: and would lead to a slew of gun control laws

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Speaker 2: targeting black people nationwide. Then the following year, we'd really

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Speaker 2: melt down.

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Speaker 7: Martin Luther Kingey twenty minutes ago die.

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Speaker 2: In the wake of King's death, There'd be over one

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Speaker 2: hundred uprisings, and Congress would renew a once stalled effort

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Speaker 2: to limit access to guns. They passed the nineteen sixty

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Speaker 2: eight Gun Control Act, which lay the groundwork for modern

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Speaker 2: laws around who is allowed to buy and sell firearms.

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Speaker 2: But more importantly, just look at the here and now.

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Speaker 2: As demographics change, we fragment. The Obama administration sparked record

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Speaker 2: gun sales for the time, but it wouldn't hold a

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Speaker 2: candle to twenty twenty. If COVID had us locked. The

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Speaker 2: murder of George Floyd and the protests that followed would

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Speaker 2: get us absolutely loaded.

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Speaker 7: These are not acts full protests.

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Speaker 10: These are acts of domestic durrah arresting. One person shot

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Speaker 10: and killed at a Black Lives Matter protest an Austin Tech.

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Speaker 4: When the Proud Boys group showed up, a confrontation caused

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Speaker 4: a violent street fight to break out. Police ordered the

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Speaker 4: crowds to disperse, and they also did.

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Speaker 2: Americans would buy over forty million guns and twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 2: that's more guns than the entire population of Canada. Five

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Speaker 2: million of those Americans would be grabbing a piece for

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Speaker 2: the first time, and it would pour billions into the

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Speaker 2: pockets of the gun industry. I would watch in real

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Speaker 2: time as my beat as a gun reporter went from

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Speaker 2: niche specialty to sitting front row to the largest wave

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Speaker 2: of gun buying and recorded American history. How's that for

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Speaker 2: job security? And it's not like it's an undercurrent that

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Speaker 2: gun culture hasn't been afraid to tap into. Make them protest,

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Speaker 2: make them scream racism and sexism and xenophobia and homophobia,

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Speaker 2: to smash windows, burn cars, shut down interstates and areas.

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Speaker 2: In that ad, the NRA calls racial justice protests madness

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Speaker 2: and calls on Americans to fight them with what they

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Speaker 2: call a clinched fist of truth. Rifle producer Daniel Defense

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Speaker 2: ended up in Congress last year where lawmakers grilled them

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Speaker 2: on using extremist iconography in their ads.

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Speaker 5: That's a fall knot, and it's a symbol that has

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Speaker 5: been increasingly embraced by white supremacists, But.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be that explicit. I've always been

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Speaker 2: a gun nerd and growing up I'd cringe at the

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Speaker 2: number of times I'd come across Confederate flags, Nazi war gear,

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Speaker 2: end or straight up disdain of anything not quite American.

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Speaker 2: It's this shadow that no matter how far I go

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Speaker 2: into the community, is still always there. And don't get

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Speaker 2: me wrong, I'm not trying to say that everyone who

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Speaker 2: is buying a gun is doing so because they are racist.

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Speaker 2: More so that when your country is founded on a

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Speaker 2: fundamental fear of the person next door. Carrying a gun

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Speaker 2: is a lot more palatable than not carrying one. But

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Speaker 2: if gun ownership and the gun industry was built on whiteness,

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Speaker 2: what does it mean to be a black gun owner?

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Speaker 2: Now we'll find out in a minute.

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Speaker 9: Have you heard that?

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Speaker 11: Yeah, that was a gator?

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Speaker 6: Did not hear that?

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Speaker 2: That's pretty grace tatter. And this is the Bunker Club.

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Speaker 2: It's a field in Claremont, Florida where hundreds of gun

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Speaker 2: enthusiasts as symbol in the swamp like humidity to do

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Speaker 2: one thing, play with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth

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Speaker 2: of high powered weaponry. And we're gonna play two. It's

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Speaker 2: asking me, am, I currently on probation. No, have ever

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Speaker 2: been ampudicated as a mentally defective or committed and meant

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Speaker 2: to a mental institution. No under influenced.

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Speaker 11: Alcohol or drugs or anything negative issued or restraining order,

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Speaker 11: Domestic Violence Act, borrowing. Now, have you ever handled a handgun?

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Speaker 2: This is pew Party two.

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Speaker 11: Yes, you ever handled a rifle or shotgun?

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Speaker 2: Yes? Click here to sign. It's a black led shooting

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Speaker 2: event and it's the second time it's being held in

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Speaker 2: as many years. It's a playground of burns, tires, and targets.

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Speaker 9: Have I ever handled a handgun? No, rifler shotgun? No,

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Speaker 9: I think I'm the only person here. You can probably answer

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Speaker 9: notableth those questions.

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Speaker 2: P Party two is an event created by j Jenkins

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Speaker 2: Akaj the Shooter, a self described gun tuber, a firearms

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Speaker 2: social media influencer.

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Speaker 8: Do you Sementein has consistently lost? So I'm gonna get

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Speaker 8: a block seventeen A here start, I'm gonna let a

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Speaker 8: few rounds off.

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Speaker 2: Jay's a businessman, one of the few black people in

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Speaker 2: the country who carries a coveted FFL sought three, a

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00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 2: federal license that allows him to develop and sell things

404
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 2: like suppressors and automatic weapons. These events are about building

405
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Speaker 2: his brand, where he invites regular people, particularly black people,

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00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 2: so they can do two things, meet face to face

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Speaker 2: with the cutting edge companies in the gun industry. Plus

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Speaker 2: they get a chance to handle some iconic and advanced weaponry.

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Speaker 2: Oh god, that was tight. That was a P ninety

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00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 2: over there, so look at it. It's it's kind of

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00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 2: like a sci fi looking gun, has this crazy magazine

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00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 2: it fits on top, but a pretty much fast rate

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Speaker 2: of fire. So you know, again, these are all you know,

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Speaker 2: movie guns, things that like high level militant like you know,

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Speaker 2: things that are in catalogs that most people will never

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Speaker 2: be able to touch. Are you over my shoulder? Get this?

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Speaker 2: When we run out, it's gonna make this awesome sound.

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Speaker 2: And that was the sound. Did you go if you

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Speaker 2: can't tell? I actually love guns, and I always have.

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Speaker 2: I'm black, but more specifically, I'm biracial. I was introduced

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Speaker 2: to guns at a young age by my dad, a

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Speaker 2: white man from Appalachia, and I remember the stairs I

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Speaker 2: get growing up going to gun shows down south in Texas,

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Speaker 2: the state and offish gunshop owners, the range masters, who

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Speaker 2: with the sheer glance would remind me that no matter

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Speaker 2: who I was or how trained I was, I was

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Speaker 2: there as a guest. So for me, Pew Party is different.

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Speaker 5: Yep.

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Speaker 2: It's an eccentric assortment of the familiar but the unfamiliar.

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Speaker 2: It's the most black people I've ever seen at a

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Speaker 2: shooting event, and therefore probably the most comfortable I've ever

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Speaker 2: been in such a space. I mean, like you hear

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Speaker 2: the hammer drop on this thing. There are things you'd

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Speaker 2: never see at a gun range, like a DJ and

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00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 2: a Caribbean food truck and all day, a few three

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00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 2: lines became very clear. First, almost every black person we

437
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 2: spoke with clearly understood what it means to be black

438
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 2: and all the pitfalls that accompany it. And their response

439
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 2: to that reality was name that their life was in

440
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 2: their own hands.

441
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 12: One as a black person in this country, as well

442
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 12: as a woman in this country, it's very important that

443
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 12: we be able to protect ourselves with the best tools

444
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 12: Ted horere available.

445
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 6: My self protection is serious.

446
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 13: How about take advantage of your second Amendment right and

447
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 13: do what you need to do to protect you and

448
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 13: your family.

449
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: I want to protect me in mind. Secondly, that crazy

450
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 2: year of twenty twenty where there was open white supremacy,

451
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 2: government failure in COVID nineteen and the fallout of George Floyd, Well,

452
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 2: black people saw it too, and we flocked to guns.

453
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 2: Here's Thomas Lyles, a Navy vet and firearms instructor.

454
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 6: When Trump was in office, that's when we saw the

455
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 6: largest spike of black gun ownership, and so a lot

456
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 6: of black people during that time they felt as if

457
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 6: the government, the police, nobody was going to help us

458
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 6: or protect us, and so it was on us we

459
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 6: had to protect ourselves.

460
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 2: When he talks to us, he is wearing a military

461
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 2: chest ring adorned with bits of African can Take prey,

462
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 2: and it's carrying thousands of dollars of military great hardware.

463
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 2: This is my first time meeting him in person, but

464
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 2: I'm familiar with his social media. One finger puts this

465
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 2: live right, so I like that. So I think it

466
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 2: might be a good recommendation for female shooters. This training

467
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 2: isn't to put holes in paper, but winning gunfights.

468
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 6: And some of my family members I talked to the

469
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 6: CCW class because during that time, when Kobe was happening,

470
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 6: we had all the protests going on, the country seemed

471
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 6: very unbalanced, right, It's very uncertain, And so even selling

472
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 6: my family years before that, like I don't need a gun.

473
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 6: I've been alive forty years and nothing's ever happened. But

474
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 6: during those that time and no alson, I was getting

475
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 6: these phone calls, Hey, cousin, nephew, when can you come

476
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 6: over and teach me a class? And now they're in

477
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 6: the guns. My uncle's in the guns, my cousin's in

478
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 6: the guns. He's buying rifles, building rifles, buying pistols.

479
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 2: In fact, according to the National Opinion Research Center at

480
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 2: the University of Chicago. Sixty nine percent of people who

481
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 2: bought their first gun during the pandemic were people of color.

482
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 2: And if you looked at America through a thousand foot lens,

483
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 2: it kind of makes sense. Black people are some of

484
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 2: those most victimized in the country and always have been.

485
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 2: We have police systems that hurt more than help, where

486
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: black people are five times more likely to be arrested

487
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 2: than whites and three times is likely to be killed

488
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,479
Speaker 2: during a police encounter. And with this long pattern of

489
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 2: isolation and victimization, is it really a surprise that more

490
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 2: black people are buying guns too? And how does the

491
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 2: industry react to this backwards af As quick as the

492
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 2: NRA is to savage Black Lives Matter protests to rally

493
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 2: their base and defense of the gun industry, they're also

494
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 2: quick to point out that often laws controlling gun ownership

495
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 2: have been racist. Some of the messaging in recent years

496
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 2: has been come on over, black customers, We're happy to

497
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 2: have you. But that same organization collectively shrugs at the

498
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 2: death of legal gun owners, like when police outside Saint

499
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 2: Paul killed Filando Castile during a traffic stop. It rallies

500
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 2: for more aggressive policing and backs racist politicians. It's this

501
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 2: worldview that contributes to the reality that many of the

502
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 2: PEW Parties participants existing the odd looks and stares at

503
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 2: gun ranges, the distinct feeling that everyone's not going to

504
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 2: light them or what they represent. Every black male we

505
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 2: interviewed was acutely aware of toxic images portrayed of black

506
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 2: men with guns, which is why Jay the Shooter says

507
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 2: he hosts events like these. You said one thing about

508
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: you know, and I think this is crazy that I

509
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 2: got to revisit, But you said that when it comes

510
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 2: to firearms, that black people have really been a victim

511
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 2: of poor marketing. Yes, what has that marketing been and

512
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 2: who has put that marketing out there?

513
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 8: Well, you know, be honest. Let's let's take some accountability here, right.

514
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 8: We have to stop conducting the acts that put ourselves

515
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 8: in a negative life. Let's start there. Let's start with

516
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 8: first accountability. I believe in black accountability first, and then

517
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 8: we can start working on the values and everything else

518
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 8: that we need to do to really clean up a

519
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 8: lot of the negative images that are being perceived and

520
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 8: promoted and projected on us.

521
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 9: But a lot of times. So like some of the

522
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 9: racist anti black images, like gun companies not all. I'm

523
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 9: not saying the industry isn't a monolith, but gun companies

524
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 9: have made a lot of money off of off of

525
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 9: making people.

526
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 2: Afraid of black people.

527
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 9: Yeah, how does that? How do you fit into how

528
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 9: do you deal with that?

529
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 10: Right?

530
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 2: Right?

531
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 8: Look, at the end of the day, every every company

532
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 8: has their business model. We have to see it for

533
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 8: what it is, right and not be subject to it. Yeah,

534
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 8: the fear mongering is there. It is there. I see it,

535
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 8: but I choose not to look at that because my

536
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 8: mission is not to combat that. My mission is to

537
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 8: push legitimacy when it comes to African Americans and incubating

538
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 8: consumers to merchants. That's my mission. I can't stop what

539
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 8: I'm doing to go look at what they're doing. Like,

540
00:33:58,240 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 8: we know it's there. But how do I combat that

541
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 8: is by throwing advance and bringing more community awareness to

542
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 8: what it is. How many times did you pass by

543
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 8: somebody today and you saw first time shooters shooting suppress,

544
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,280
Speaker 8: first time shooting shooter, shoot machine gun, first time hands

545
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 8: on with this platform from this company. That's my mission.

546
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 8: I focus on that I can. Would I be able

547
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 8: to combat what they're doing. No, But I'm putting good

548
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 8: media in good press, and I'm putting my own marketing

549
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 8: out there that I can control. So instead of send

550
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 8: back and complaining about what they're doing with their targeted

551
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 8: marketing when it comes to the black community, I also

552
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 8: have to target my community and put the positive messages

553
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,399
Speaker 8: out there. That's how I combat what they're doing.

554
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 2: Essentially, it's a form of exposure therapy, and Jay wasn't

555
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 2: alone in his sentiments of trying to take the fear

556
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 2: out of the image of a black man carrying a

557
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 2: gun in the broader American consciousness, and things like this

558
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 2: event and training seminars and social media were ways for

559
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 2: them to do it. When it comes to the broader

560
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 2: gun industry and how they market. A lot of the

561
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 2: attitude was not too dissimilar from the modit if you

562
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 2: can't beat them, join them, but perhaps with the caveat

563
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 2: to change them from within. Throughout the day, though, we

564
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 2: had plenty of conversations about self defense, about the power

565
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 2: of black dollars, and it's easy to get lost in

566
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 2: the money to be had in this industry. But a

567
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 2: woman at the event named Crystal Harper reminded us of

568
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 2: another reality that Black people are also the most victimized

569
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:28,240
Speaker 2: by firearms.

570
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 12: There's a lot of trauma surrounding firearms within our community

571
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 12: that just needs to be dealt with in addition to

572
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 12: lack of knowledge, lack of history. But we don't talk

573
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 12: about that trauma.

574
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 2: And we don't talk about it. Gun violence and all

575
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 2: forms has increased sharply for Black Americans in recent years.

576
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 2: Black people now experience twelve times the gun homicides, eighteen

577
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,240
Speaker 2: times the amount of shooting injuries, and nearly three times

578
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 2: the fatal police shootings of their white counterparts. The Wanda Akosua,

579
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,760
Speaker 2: a firearms trainer, says she sees the consequences of those statistics.

580
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 13: It happens a lot, you know, especially in certain areas.

581
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 13: I know, I get a nice percentage of my students

582
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:14,919
Speaker 13: that do have trauma. Actually have one girl who broke

583
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 13: down like anxiety, full anxiety attack on the range. But

584
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 13: it's just a matter of kind of coming at it

585
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,959
Speaker 13: from behind and being able to relate to them because

586
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 13: I'm able to relate because I've also been in that situation.

587
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 2: And many black people can relate. Our community is tight knit.

588
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 2: Although we only account for about thirteen percent of the population,

589
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 2: we absorb a disproportionate amount of America's gun violence. So

590
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 2: this means that seventy one percent of Black adults know

591
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 2: someone who's been injured or killed by gun in their lifetime.

592
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 2: It's a violence even I've tasted myself.

593
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 13: After you've experienced trauma, there is I think I believe

594
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 13: there's a point in time where you have to say,

595
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 13: I am not going to be a victim to this trauma,

596
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,320
Speaker 13: and I have to take measures into my own hands

597
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 13: to be able to heal from this trauma from the

598
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 13: inside out, going inward in healing and starting that process.

599
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 13: But you have to be the one to start that

600
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 13: healing process. So at the end of the day, I

601
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,720
Speaker 13: think you are responsible for it. In the perfect world,

602
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 13: we don't want anyone, you know, of course the person

603
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 13: that's given the trauma, but usually a person that's presenting trauma,

604
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 13: they don't care about anyone at all. You know, they

605
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 13: don't care. So when they don't care, you have to

606
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 13: care about yourself, you know. And I think that's the

607
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 13: ultimate goal, is being able to self love, love yourself,

608
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 13: respect yourself enough to come out of that dark space

609
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:36,760
Speaker 13: and train.

610
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 2: For me as a reporter and a black gun owner,

611
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 2: I'm always driven to this space, this fundamental conflict because

612
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 2: on one side, the gun industry and the Second Amendment

613
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,919
Speaker 2: community needs to diversify to survive. But on the other

614
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 2: the only way it can do so may me facing

615
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 2: down its racist past and a latent fear is that

616
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,240
Speaker 2: fuel the industry, and with all the guns in the world,

617
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:11,720
Speaker 2: that prospect is still the scariest. On the next episode

618
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 2: of The Gun Machine, we meet the man who wrote

619
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 2: the playbook for a successful gun company.

620
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 10: He was somebody who I would say had enormous charisma

621
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:34,720
Speaker 10: an incredible drive, but as I say, I wouldn't trust him.

622
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,760
Speaker 2: So after America secured its freedom and used its weapons

623
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 2: to secure its enslave workforce, what next, Well, it's time

624
00:38:42,840 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 2: to expand, and with that expands The gun Machine. The

625
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 2: gun Machine is production of WBR in partnership with The Trace.

626
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 2: I'm your host, Alon Stevens. If you want more on

627
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 2: this or any of our other episodes, you should visit

628
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 2: the Trace dot org Slash gun Machine or wr dot

629
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 2: org Slash gun Machine. If you feel like we are

630
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,800
Speaker 2: telling an important story, review the show on your podcast

631
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 2: app and fill out the Gun Machine survey at WR

632
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 2: dot org slash survey. You can sign up for the

633
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 2: Traces newsletter to find more on this reporting at the

634
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 2: Trace dot org. Our producer who always has My six

635
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 2: is wr's Grace Tattered. Our editing fellow from The Trace

636
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 2: is Aja Annick. Orchestrating our bat drops is sound designer

637
00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 2: Emily Jankowski. Our production manager is Paul Viks. Our editors

638
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 2: are Kevin Sullivan and WBR podcast executive producer Ben Brock Johnson.

639
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 2: Additional editing from Miles Corman. Our WR Managing Producer is

640
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 2: Samata Joshi, and our Engagement editor at The Trace is

641
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 2: Gracey McKenzie, Audio engineering from Tim Felton, and our artwork

642
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 2: is by Diego Maichong. Support for The Gun Machine comes

643
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 2: from the Joyce Foundation, a nonpartisan philanthropy that invests in

644
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 2: racial equity and economic mobility in the Great Lakes region.

645
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 2: For more than twenty five years, Joyce has supported research, education,

646
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 2: and policy solutions to reduce gun violence and make community safer.

647
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 2: To learn more, go to joycefdn dot org. Additional funding

648
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 2: provided by the Candida Fund