1 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:51,961 Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold 2 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,361 Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite 3 00:00:55,401 --> 00:00:58,761 Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially 4 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,961 Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights 5 00:01:03,001 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be 6 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,961 Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts 7 00:01:10,041 --> 00:01:14,041 Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has 8 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 9 00:01:17,961 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply 10 00:01:21,041 --> 00:01:23,601 Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime 11 00:01:24,121 --> 00:01:27,121 Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. 12 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:33,521 Speaker 2: On Sunday, June seventeenth, twenty twenty four, Jay Slater, a 13 00:01:33,681 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 2: nineteen year old bricklayers apprentice who lived in Lancashire, England, 14 00:01:37,601 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 2: was on his first ever foreign holiday and he seemed 15 00:01:40,961 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 2: to be having a blast. He had gone to the 16 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,681 Speaker 2: island of ties Henry from Spain with a female friend 17 00:01:45,761 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: named Lucy and another guy named Brad. That night, he 18 00:01:49,401 --> 00:01:52,081 Speaker 2: and Lucy went out to a music festival called NRG 19 00:01:52,481 --> 00:01:56,321 Speaker 2: New Rave Generation. It was held at Papagayo Beach Club 20 00:01:56,721 --> 00:02:00,241 Speaker 2: in an area called Veronica's Strip. It's an area that 21 00:02:00,321 --> 00:02:03,841 Speaker 2: has a ton of nightclubs and neon signs. It's very 22 00:02:03,841 --> 00:02:07,641 Speaker 2: popular with British tourists. According to the information that Lucy 23 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,361 Speaker 2: posted later on a go fund meet, they had a 24 00:02:10,361 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 2: great time that night. Jay had just finished his course 25 00:02:13,561 --> 00:02:16,201 Speaker 2: at technical school back in the UK. He was getting 26 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,081 Speaker 2: ready to take his exams when he got home, so 27 00:02:18,121 --> 00:02:21,321 Speaker 2: they were blowing off some steam. But Lucy said she 28 00:02:21,441 --> 00:02:24,001 Speaker 2: was tired from the weekend, so she went home early 29 00:02:24,041 --> 00:02:27,921 Speaker 2: that night. Jay stayed on at the club. He posted 30 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,081 Speaker 2: photos and snapchats from there. He appeared to be having 31 00:02:31,121 --> 00:02:35,001 Speaker 2: a great time. At eight thirty five pm, he posted 32 00:02:35,041 --> 00:02:38,441 Speaker 2: a snap of himself hanging out with friends, looking happy 33 00:02:38,481 --> 00:02:42,361 Speaker 2: and chilled and dancing. More camera footage has come out 34 00:02:42,401 --> 00:02:45,241 Speaker 2: from inside the club. You can see him laughing and 35 00:02:45,321 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 2: having a great time. Eventually he made his way outside 36 00:02:49,121 --> 00:02:52,841 Speaker 2: the club, which closed at three am. After that, he 37 00:02:52,961 --> 00:02:56,641 Speaker 2: was sitting on a wall. At around four am he 38 00:02:56,761 --> 00:03:00,641 Speaker 2: started chatting to two other British men. Somehow they made 39 00:03:00,721 --> 00:03:03,761 Speaker 2: a plan to go on to those two guys Airbnb. 40 00:03:05,001 --> 00:03:09,601 Speaker 2: They left that club sometime after four am. He got 41 00:03:09,641 --> 00:03:11,841 Speaker 2: into a car with these two strangers and went back 42 00:03:11,841 --> 00:03:14,641 Speaker 2: to their airbnb, which was in a remote area about 43 00:03:14,641 --> 00:03:16,761 Speaker 2: an hour away from where Jay was staying in the 44 00:03:16,801 --> 00:03:21,801 Speaker 2: touristy resort area. The airbnb was near a small town 45 00:03:21,961 --> 00:03:26,841 Speaker 2: called Masca. The next morning, Lucy got one last frantic 46 00:03:26,881 --> 00:03:30,041 Speaker 2: call from Jay a little after eight am, saying he 47 00:03:30,121 --> 00:03:32,401 Speaker 2: was lost, didn't know where he was, and that he 48 00:03:32,481 --> 00:03:39,401 Speaker 2: was panicked. That was the last time that anyone ever 49 00:03:39,481 --> 00:03:44,441 Speaker 2: heard from Jay Slater, because after that he disappeared. This 50 00:03:44,601 --> 00:03:47,961 Speaker 2: healthy young man who had his entire life ahead of him. 51 00:03:48,361 --> 00:03:49,081 Speaker 3: Was just gone. 52 00:03:49,961 --> 00:03:53,601 Speaker 2: And what happened to him has become a huge story 53 00:03:53,721 --> 00:03:57,721 Speaker 2: in the UK and now throughout the world. What did 54 00:03:57,761 --> 00:04:00,881 Speaker 2: happen to him? Was he kidnapped and murdered, like a 55 00:04:00,881 --> 00:04:03,961 Speaker 2: lot of people believe. Did he wander off into the 56 00:04:04,001 --> 00:04:07,801 Speaker 2: wilderness or did someone else pull up alongside him on 57 00:04:07,841 --> 00:04:10,441 Speaker 2: that narrow strip of road, coax him into their car 58 00:04:10,601 --> 00:04:15,201 Speaker 2: and drive off somewhere. This case is wild. It is 59 00:04:15,241 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 2: exposed the seedy underside of this beautiful island and the 60 00:04:18,841 --> 00:04:22,601 Speaker 2: criminal underworld that are operating there. This case has taken 61 00:04:22,681 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 2: over British news. Everyone from police detectives to psychics and 62 00:04:26,721 --> 00:04:30,401 Speaker 2: TikTok stars have descended on this Spanish island in the Canaries. 63 00:04:31,041 --> 00:04:33,161 Speaker 2: They're all trying to find a young man who is 64 00:04:33,241 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 2: partying and vanished about a trace right in the middle 65 00:04:36,561 --> 00:04:41,121 Speaker 2: of an island full of tourists. I'm Catherine Townsend. This 66 00:04:41,361 --> 00:05:32,921 Speaker 2: is Helen Gone Murder Line. If you listen to this podcast, 67 00:05:33,081 --> 00:05:35,961 Speaker 2: you know I don't normally cover cases that are ongoing 68 00:05:36,361 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 2: unless there's a good reason, like a missing person's case 69 00:05:39,481 --> 00:05:42,881 Speaker 2: that isn't getting attention, not like this case, which actually 70 00:05:42,921 --> 00:05:46,121 Speaker 2: is all over the new I prefer cold cases for 71 00:05:46,201 --> 00:05:49,041 Speaker 2: several reasons. First of all, I don't want to be 72 00:05:49,121 --> 00:05:51,841 Speaker 2: one of those reporters that stands on people's lawns right 73 00:05:51,881 --> 00:05:55,241 Speaker 2: after tragedy and ask for sound bites from grieving families. 74 00:05:57,001 --> 00:06:00,001 Speaker 2: And even though we are sometimes critical of the police 75 00:06:00,521 --> 00:06:03,161 Speaker 2: when they are investigating a case, I really don't want 76 00:06:03,201 --> 00:06:03,481 Speaker 2: to get in. 77 00:06:03,481 --> 00:06:04,281 Speaker 3: The police's way. 78 00:06:05,201 --> 00:06:09,121 Speaker 2: But this case, the Jay Slater case, is fascinating. It's 79 00:06:09,161 --> 00:06:12,641 Speaker 2: fascinating for a couple of reasons. In my opinion, it's 80 00:06:12,641 --> 00:06:15,121 Speaker 2: a good lesson in what to do when a loved 81 00:06:15,161 --> 00:06:18,841 Speaker 2: one goes missing and what not to do. Because this 82 00:06:18,961 --> 00:06:23,041 Speaker 2: case has brought out some of the darkest, worst sides 83 00:06:23,081 --> 00:06:26,761 Speaker 2: of true crime. Journalism and of what they call black 84 00:06:26,841 --> 00:06:33,721 Speaker 2: tourism or murder tourism. A little background here. I used 85 00:06:33,721 --> 00:06:36,321 Speaker 2: to live in London. I work for a British newspaper 86 00:06:36,401 --> 00:06:39,041 Speaker 2: for several years for people who don't know that, and 87 00:06:39,121 --> 00:06:41,401 Speaker 2: I am an American citizen, but I also have a 88 00:06:41,401 --> 00:06:45,481 Speaker 2: British passport, so really London is like my second home. 89 00:06:45,961 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 2: I come here every summer. And when I came to 90 00:06:48,161 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 2: London this week, literally the entire country was talking about 91 00:06:51,881 --> 00:06:54,681 Speaker 2: this Jay Slater case. It reminded me a little bit 92 00:06:54,681 --> 00:06:56,921 Speaker 2: of the Natalie Halloway case in the US back in 93 00:06:56,961 --> 00:07:00,921 Speaker 2: two thousand and five. The difference is that since the 94 00:07:01,001 --> 00:07:05,001 Speaker 2: Natalie Hallway case, we have social media, so in addition 95 00:07:05,161 --> 00:07:08,881 Speaker 2: to this nationwide press coverage, we have all these amateur 96 00:07:08,921 --> 00:07:11,481 Speaker 2: detectives that have gone into a frenzy over this case. 97 00:07:12,481 --> 00:07:15,561 Speaker 2: As we said before, Jay's friend Lucy started to worry 98 00:07:15,561 --> 00:07:17,241 Speaker 2: the next morning when he didn't come back to the 99 00:07:17,241 --> 00:07:20,161 Speaker 2: resort where they were staying. This was a big resort 100 00:07:20,241 --> 00:07:23,481 Speaker 2: called Plia de las Americas. It was about a forty 101 00:07:23,561 --> 00:07:27,201 Speaker 2: minute drive from their resort to the area where Jay 102 00:07:27,241 --> 00:07:29,881 Speaker 2: went with the two strangers that was in a more 103 00:07:29,961 --> 00:07:32,801 Speaker 2: rural area in the north of the island, near a 104 00:07:32,881 --> 00:07:37,161 Speaker 2: park called Rural Deteno Park. This is a long way 105 00:07:37,241 --> 00:07:39,881 Speaker 2: from the Lively Beach resort area where they'd been hanging 106 00:07:39,921 --> 00:07:42,961 Speaker 2: around the night before. This park is in an area 107 00:07:43,201 --> 00:07:47,961 Speaker 2: that is remote popular with hikers. At around seven thirty 108 00:07:48,001 --> 00:07:51,601 Speaker 2: am the next morning, Jay had posted a snap of 109 00:07:51,681 --> 00:07:54,961 Speaker 2: a hand. We haven't seen this snap, but presumably it 110 00:07:55,041 --> 00:07:58,201 Speaker 2: was his hand holding a cigarette on the front steps 111 00:07:58,241 --> 00:08:02,001 Speaker 2: of that airbnb. We know it's that airbnb because Lucy 112 00:08:02,041 --> 00:08:04,841 Speaker 2: said you could see the tile pattern on the steps. 113 00:08:05,561 --> 00:08:09,121 Speaker 2: He called Lucy shortly after eight am. Now some reports 114 00:08:09,201 --> 00:08:13,241 Speaker 2: at eight fifteen, but later it seemed like the correct 115 00:08:13,321 --> 00:08:17,321 Speaker 2: time was eight fifty am. He called her and sounded panics. 116 00:08:17,361 --> 00:08:17,761 Speaker 3: She said. 117 00:08:18,041 --> 00:08:20,041 Speaker 2: He told her his phone was dying, he only had 118 00:08:20,081 --> 00:08:23,041 Speaker 2: one percent battery, he was thirsty, and he did not 119 00:08:23,201 --> 00:08:26,961 Speaker 2: know where he was. She wrote on the GoFundMe page quote, 120 00:08:27,241 --> 00:08:29,201 Speaker 2: I woke up to a phone call off Jay at 121 00:08:29,241 --> 00:08:31,561 Speaker 2: eight thirty am, saying he was lost in the mountains. 122 00:08:31,641 --> 00:08:32,401 Speaker 3: He wasn't aware of. 123 00:08:32,401 --> 00:08:35,801 Speaker 2: His surroundings, he desperately needed a drink, and his phone 124 00:08:35,841 --> 00:08:38,841 Speaker 2: was on one percent. He had met two people on 125 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,401 Speaker 2: Sunday night and left with them to go to their apartment. 126 00:08:42,081 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 2: Their apartment was miles away from civilization and in a 127 00:08:45,321 --> 00:08:50,481 Speaker 2: very secluded location. Now, after this went down, a lot 128 00:08:50,481 --> 00:08:54,481 Speaker 2: of people asked did Lucy or Jay know these guys 129 00:08:54,601 --> 00:08:58,281 Speaker 2: before the night he vanished? The post on GoFundMe that 130 00:08:58,401 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 2: was made by Lucy, in my opinion, made it sound 131 00:09:01,401 --> 00:09:04,641 Speaker 2: like the two guys from the airbnb were complete strangers. 132 00:09:05,241 --> 00:09:08,321 Speaker 2: Later someone else would come forward to question that. But 133 00:09:08,361 --> 00:09:12,401 Speaker 2: we'll get back to that later. So after Jay said 134 00:09:12,441 --> 00:09:16,401 Speaker 2: he was in trouble and lost, Lucy immediately. 135 00:09:15,761 --> 00:09:17,281 Speaker 3: Went out looking for him. 136 00:09:17,721 --> 00:09:22,441 Speaker 2: Apparently that snap that Jay sent had his location. That's 137 00:09:22,481 --> 00:09:24,721 Speaker 2: how Lucy was able to find that house so quickly. 138 00:09:25,361 --> 00:09:28,841 Speaker 2: It's also the only house in that area in the mountains. 139 00:09:29,641 --> 00:09:32,521 Speaker 2: It's along a winding strip of roads, surrounded by rural 140 00:09:32,521 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 2: cliffs and very difficult terrain. She said that she knocked 141 00:09:37,321 --> 00:09:39,481 Speaker 2: on the door and that there were two people there, 142 00:09:39,561 --> 00:09:43,721 Speaker 2: presumably the two men whose Airbnb it was. According to Lucie, 143 00:09:44,001 --> 00:09:47,401 Speaker 2: that morning, Jay had gone out for a smoke, come 144 00:09:47,441 --> 00:09:49,681 Speaker 2: back for a short time, and then said he wanted 145 00:09:49,681 --> 00:09:50,161 Speaker 2: to go home. 146 00:09:50,801 --> 00:09:53,201 Speaker 3: After that, they said he left. 147 00:09:53,761 --> 00:09:57,961 Speaker 2: Now, according to media reports, Lucy said that she believed 148 00:09:58,081 --> 00:10:01,201 Speaker 2: that Jay may have been kidnapped, but after he left 149 00:10:01,201 --> 00:10:03,641 Speaker 2: the residence, he did talk to Lucy at eight fifty 150 00:10:04,401 --> 00:10:08,001 Speaker 2: and there was someone else in that remote wilderness who 151 00:10:08,121 --> 00:10:12,961 Speaker 2: saw Jay after he left the airbnb, so someone did 152 00:10:13,001 --> 00:10:16,561 Speaker 2: see him after he left the airbnb. The last person 153 00:10:16,641 --> 00:10:20,121 Speaker 2: to see Jay alive that we know about was a woman, 154 00:10:20,641 --> 00:10:26,481 Speaker 2: Ophelia Medina Hernandez. This was a neighbor the person who 155 00:10:26,481 --> 00:10:30,641 Speaker 2: owned the airbnb. She was interviewed by British media and 156 00:10:30,681 --> 00:10:34,081 Speaker 2: by the police. She said that when she saw Jay 157 00:10:34,121 --> 00:10:37,081 Speaker 2: that morning, right after he left the airbnb, he was 158 00:10:37,121 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 2: asking her about the bus, what time the bus came, 159 00:10:39,881 --> 00:10:41,721 Speaker 2: because there was a bus stop right in front of 160 00:10:41,761 --> 00:10:45,241 Speaker 2: the house. Apparently he was trying to get a bus 161 00:10:45,321 --> 00:10:48,121 Speaker 2: back down the hill, back in the direction of Los Cristianos, 162 00:10:48,441 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 2: which would have been the direction of the resort. 163 00:10:50,081 --> 00:10:50,761 Speaker 3: Where he was staying. 164 00:10:51,761 --> 00:10:54,321 Speaker 2: You can see that bus stop from the house. The 165 00:10:54,361 --> 00:10:57,601 Speaker 2: woman said she told him the bus was at ten am. 166 00:10:57,881 --> 00:11:00,481 Speaker 2: She didn't really speak English, so she held up ten 167 00:11:00,561 --> 00:11:04,921 Speaker 2: fingers to signal that she meant ten. So if that 168 00:11:04,961 --> 00:11:07,521 Speaker 2: bus came at ten o'clock, he would have had over 169 00:11:07,561 --> 00:11:10,881 Speaker 2: an hour to wait at that bus stop. The woman 170 00:11:11,001 --> 00:11:14,001 Speaker 2: said later that she saw Jay one more time. She 171 00:11:14,041 --> 00:11:16,681 Speaker 2: said she passed by him in her car about fifteen 172 00:11:16,681 --> 00:11:20,241 Speaker 2: minutes later after they had that conversation, but she said 173 00:11:20,241 --> 00:11:20,921 Speaker 2: something strange. 174 00:11:20,961 --> 00:11:21,761 Speaker 3: She said he was. 175 00:11:21,761 --> 00:11:26,481 Speaker 2: Walking uphill, so in the opposite direction from town. She said, quote, 176 00:11:26,681 --> 00:11:29,561 Speaker 2: he was alone, he was walking normally though he was 177 00:11:29,641 --> 00:11:33,521 Speaker 2: walking fast end quote. So what made him lead the 178 00:11:33,561 --> 00:11:36,921 Speaker 2: bus stop? And why was he walking uphill toward the 179 00:11:36,961 --> 00:11:45,161 Speaker 2: middle of nowhere instead of downhill toward town. Jay's phone 180 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:49,281 Speaker 2: died just after eight p fifty am. The last ping 181 00:11:49,441 --> 00:11:52,241 Speaker 2: was from an area near a hiking trail uphill from 182 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:52,881 Speaker 2: the airbnb. 183 00:11:54,201 --> 00:11:56,001 Speaker 3: Lucy reported Jay missing. 184 00:11:55,721 --> 00:11:58,841 Speaker 2: To police and started looking for him. She met someone 185 00:11:58,881 --> 00:12:01,121 Speaker 2: who gave her a ride. They drove around the mountains 186 00:12:01,121 --> 00:12:03,361 Speaker 2: all day. She said she thought she would see Jay 187 00:12:03,401 --> 00:12:07,521 Speaker 2: walking along the road, but he was just gone. Authorities 188 00:12:07,561 --> 00:12:10,921 Speaker 2: in Spain contacted Jay's mother, fifty five year old Debbie Duncan, 189 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,361 Speaker 2: and his father Warren back in the UK. Debbie and 190 00:12:14,441 --> 00:12:18,601 Speaker 2: Warren and Jay's brother immediately flew over to Spain. Pretty 191 00:12:18,601 --> 00:12:24,681 Speaker 2: soon there was a massive search being done. There were police, firefighters, volunteers, 192 00:12:25,121 --> 00:12:30,521 Speaker 2: people with canine dogs, drones and helicopters. Tenerief is the 193 00:12:30,681 --> 00:12:33,761 Speaker 2: largest of the Canary Islands. There are seven of them, 194 00:12:33,801 --> 00:12:37,441 Speaker 2: and they are geographically located near North Africa. Because they 195 00:12:37,441 --> 00:12:39,881 Speaker 2: are just a short flight from the UK a little 196 00:12:39,881 --> 00:12:43,921 Speaker 2: over four hours. The Canary Islands are very popular or 197 00:12:43,961 --> 00:12:48,041 Speaker 2: tourist destinations for British people. A lot of people come 198 00:12:48,121 --> 00:12:50,441 Speaker 2: to these islands to party and soak up the sun. 199 00:12:51,601 --> 00:12:55,081 Speaker 2: There is a huge bar culture, drinking, dancing, and of 200 00:12:55,121 --> 00:12:58,401 Speaker 2: course some drug use that comes along with going out 201 00:12:58,441 --> 00:13:00,401 Speaker 2: and partying, and a lot of young people being at 202 00:13:00,401 --> 00:13:04,721 Speaker 2: a rave. Early in the investigation, Lucy was kind of 203 00:13:04,761 --> 00:13:08,081 Speaker 2: criticizing the Spanish police. She seemed to be a mysterious 204 00:13:08,081 --> 00:13:12,401 Speaker 2: figure herself. When she did interviews, she had her identity hidden. 205 00:13:12,441 --> 00:13:15,841 Speaker 2: She was just kind of this dark silhouette. Basically, she 206 00:13:16,041 --> 00:13:19,001 Speaker 2: said the local authorities in Spain had fobbed her off. 207 00:13:19,241 --> 00:13:22,681 Speaker 2: She said she believed they were not taking Jay's disappearance seriously. 208 00:13:23,681 --> 00:13:26,201 Speaker 2: She also asked, by the way, why the Spanish police 209 00:13:26,201 --> 00:13:29,361 Speaker 2: did not have a translator after three days, which is 210 00:13:29,441 --> 00:13:32,241 Speaker 2: reasonable because it's not like English to Spanish translators are 211 00:13:32,241 --> 00:13:35,921 Speaker 2: hard to find, but also, unfortunately, the Spanish media seemed 212 00:13:35,921 --> 00:13:38,481 Speaker 2: to kind of have an issue with this and seemed to, 213 00:13:38,561 --> 00:13:41,401 Speaker 2: at least at first kind of in my opinion, paint 214 00:13:41,441 --> 00:13:45,281 Speaker 2: her as this demanding foreigner. Fortunately, that happens in a 215 00:13:45,321 --> 00:13:48,601 Speaker 2: lot of these cases. Pretty soon a lot of online 216 00:13:48,721 --> 00:13:52,921 Speaker 2: commenters were speculating about Lucy. A lot of people were asking, 217 00:13:53,001 --> 00:13:55,281 Speaker 2: how was this young woman able to take so many 218 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:56,121 Speaker 2: foreign holidays? 219 00:13:56,481 --> 00:13:58,961 Speaker 3: How did she pay for them? Was she some kind 220 00:13:58,961 --> 00:13:59,681 Speaker 3: of drug mule? 221 00:13:59,961 --> 00:14:02,561 Speaker 2: By the way, there's absolutely zero evidence for any of this, 222 00:14:03,001 --> 00:14:05,961 Speaker 2: and I can totally understand why Lucy would have wanted 223 00:14:05,961 --> 00:14:09,601 Speaker 2: to hide her identity exactly for this reason. Because people 224 00:14:09,721 --> 00:14:12,841 Speaker 2: started to get very involved in this investigation, they were 225 00:14:12,881 --> 00:14:16,481 Speaker 2: following it on social media, Lucy did something else. She 226 00:14:16,561 --> 00:14:20,401 Speaker 2: set up a GoFundMe campaign, and, as we know from 227 00:14:20,481 --> 00:14:25,081 Speaker 2: listening to true crime podcasts, since every decision that family 228 00:14:25,121 --> 00:14:29,121 Speaker 2: members or friends make early an investigation, unfortunately can be criticized, 229 00:14:29,281 --> 00:14:32,321 Speaker 2: this is one of the biggest areas for criticism. What 230 00:14:32,401 --> 00:14:35,961 Speaker 2: happens with these gofundmes? Where did the money go? Why 231 00:14:36,001 --> 00:14:39,041 Speaker 2: did the friends started and not the mom? This prompted 232 00:14:39,081 --> 00:14:42,561 Speaker 2: Jay's mother, Debbie, to post an update. She said they 233 00:14:42,601 --> 00:14:45,481 Speaker 2: would be using the funds for travel and lodging and 234 00:14:45,481 --> 00:14:46,921 Speaker 2: to support the Spanish authorities. 235 00:14:48,001 --> 00:14:49,241 Speaker 3: As of June twenty. 236 00:14:48,961 --> 00:14:51,721 Speaker 2: Seventh, by the way, the go fundme had received around 237 00:14:51,761 --> 00:14:55,921 Speaker 2: forty thousand pounds a little over fifty thousand dollars. So 238 00:14:56,041 --> 00:14:58,881 Speaker 2: the police were wondering how in the world did this 239 00:14:59,001 --> 00:15:05,721 Speaker 2: young man just disappear. They talked to the two men 240 00:15:05,841 --> 00:15:08,601 Speaker 2: who Jay had gone home with, and it seemed like 241 00:15:08,681 --> 00:15:12,241 Speaker 2: they were mystified too. Police said the two men answered 242 00:15:12,281 --> 00:15:15,921 Speaker 2: their questions, they cooperated, and they voluntarily stayed on the 243 00:15:15,921 --> 00:15:19,681 Speaker 2: island for extra day. They said that the Spanish police 244 00:15:19,681 --> 00:15:22,801 Speaker 2: had their names, addresses and all their personal details before 245 00:15:22,961 --> 00:15:26,201 Speaker 2: those two men flew back to the UK. Now, a 246 00:15:26,201 --> 00:15:29,681 Speaker 2: lot of online commenters made statements like how could Jay's 247 00:15:29,681 --> 00:15:34,321 Speaker 2: friends leave him alone? But honestly, I find that probably 248 00:15:34,361 --> 00:15:36,521 Speaker 2: the easiest part of the story to believe, because we 249 00:15:36,681 --> 00:15:40,241 Speaker 2: see this over and over. We see that there's a 250 00:15:40,281 --> 00:15:43,561 Speaker 2: lot of press about young women being preyed on whether 251 00:15:43,721 --> 00:15:46,521 Speaker 2: they are at home or when they're on vacation, but 252 00:15:46,721 --> 00:15:50,041 Speaker 2: young men are generally less careful about these things. There's 253 00:15:50,201 --> 00:15:53,521 Speaker 2: much less awareness about the danger that a young man 254 00:15:53,841 --> 00:15:57,201 Speaker 2: can feel when he's on his own, and people do 255 00:15:57,321 --> 00:16:00,241 Speaker 2: disappear in Tenerief, even though the crime rate on the 256 00:16:00,241 --> 00:16:03,761 Speaker 2: island is pretty low. Sometimes they wander off into the 257 00:16:03,841 --> 00:16:07,081 Speaker 2: rough terrain and fall through ravines or get trapped there. 258 00:16:07,561 --> 00:16:10,761 Speaker 2: But then a lot of people speculated maybe Jay got 259 00:16:10,801 --> 00:16:14,121 Speaker 2: involved in some kind of drug trade. There is a 260 00:16:14,201 --> 00:16:17,841 Speaker 2: drug trade, an underground criminal element on Tenerief. It's been 261 00:16:17,881 --> 00:16:21,041 Speaker 2: described as an island where the Italian mob is very active. 262 00:16:21,561 --> 00:16:24,321 Speaker 2: It's also been described as one of the islands of 263 00:16:24,361 --> 00:16:27,481 Speaker 2: what they call geostrategic importance when it comes to international 264 00:16:27,561 --> 00:16:33,761 Speaker 2: drug trafficking. Because the case made national and then international news, 265 00:16:34,201 --> 00:16:37,721 Speaker 2: there were sightings of Jay everywhere, all of them to 266 00:16:37,761 --> 00:16:41,401 Speaker 2: this date have been unbeverified. The rumors continue to fly. 267 00:16:42,721 --> 00:16:45,761 Speaker 2: Some people said Jay lost a bag full of drugs 268 00:16:45,961 --> 00:16:48,561 Speaker 2: and he was being held hostage until the money was paid. 269 00:16:49,201 --> 00:16:52,121 Speaker 2: There were a lot of crazy conspiracy theories flying around, 270 00:16:52,561 --> 00:16:55,121 Speaker 2: each one a little more unbelievable than the next, and 271 00:16:55,161 --> 00:16:58,281 Speaker 2: a lot of them entered around this go fundme money 272 00:16:58,801 --> 00:17:02,961 Speaker 2: that somehow Jay's family or friends had set up this 273 00:17:03,001 --> 00:17:05,360 Speaker 2: GoFundMe to repay a drug death. This was all some 274 00:17:05,721 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 2: elaborate scheme, which really should have seemed totally ridiculous from 275 00:17:09,521 --> 00:17:12,360 Speaker 2: the beginning, but people were continuing to repeat stuff like this. 276 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 2: Then on Saturday, Jane twenty second, there was a break 277 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,401 Speaker 2: in the case. There was a reported sighting of Jay 278 00:17:19,481 --> 00:17:23,481 Speaker 2: in Santiago del Tierde, a town that's about five miles 279 00:17:23,481 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 2: away from Masca, the nearest small town to that airbnb. 280 00:17:27,481 --> 00:17:30,481 Speaker 2: Someone said they saw Jay there with two men outside 281 00:17:30,481 --> 00:17:32,561 Speaker 2: of church. That would have been on the day he 282 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,801 Speaker 2: disappeared at around six pm in the evening. There was 283 00:17:35,921 --> 00:17:39,321 Speaker 2: blurry footage outside that church, but no confirmed sighting of Jay. 284 00:17:39,961 --> 00:17:42,281 Speaker 2: There was another rumor he had been spotted watching a 285 00:17:42,321 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 2: football match. 286 00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:44,321 Speaker 3: Now, this is all. 287 00:17:44,201 --> 00:17:46,681 Speaker 2: Going on in the middle of the Euro twenty four matches. 288 00:17:47,161 --> 00:17:49,241 Speaker 2: It was reported in the press that the mayor of 289 00:17:49,241 --> 00:17:52,881 Speaker 2: that town, Santiago d'ltierede, said that the Spanish police had 290 00:17:52,921 --> 00:17:55,281 Speaker 2: spoken to several people who may have seen Ja. 291 00:17:56,041 --> 00:17:56,321 Speaker 3: Now. 292 00:17:56,921 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 2: I mention this because it's a really good example of 293 00:17:59,161 --> 00:18:02,801 Speaker 2: how in these situations, when there's fastbreaking news, rumors start 294 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:04,721 Speaker 2: flying and things do not get corrected. 295 00:18:05,281 --> 00:18:07,481 Speaker 3: So the rumors started because the. 296 00:18:07,481 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 2: Mayor mentioned he heard someone saw Jay. Now somehow in 297 00:18:13,041 --> 00:18:15,641 Speaker 2: some of the news reporting that became it was definitely 298 00:18:15,721 --> 00:18:16,441 Speaker 2: Jay and he. 299 00:18:16,361 --> 00:18:17,321 Speaker 3: Was watching football. 300 00:18:17,961 --> 00:18:20,561 Speaker 2: But by the time police went there to question people 301 00:18:20,681 --> 00:18:23,721 Speaker 2: and other news organizations showed up, they got the real story. 302 00:18:24,401 --> 00:18:26,521 Speaker 3: The mayor had heard people. 303 00:18:26,241 --> 00:18:28,241 Speaker 2: Saying that they saw a young man who may have 304 00:18:28,281 --> 00:18:31,401 Speaker 2: matched Jay's description. Now, of course Jay had a very 305 00:18:31,521 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 2: general look. He's a young tan guy on vacation and 306 00:18:34,641 --> 00:18:38,401 Speaker 2: with his darker skin and hair and kind of alive complexion. Honestly, 307 00:18:38,761 --> 00:18:41,281 Speaker 2: he could have been a local or a tourist. Clearly 308 00:18:41,361 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 2: they just saw someone who looked vaguely like Ja. 309 00:18:43,801 --> 00:18:45,361 Speaker 3: It was not Jay. 310 00:18:46,361 --> 00:18:49,041 Speaker 2: So it's natural to ask a question in a case 311 00:18:49,121 --> 00:18:52,481 Speaker 2: like this, how common is it to go missing in 312 00:18:52,521 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 2: a place like this. Well, the Independent newspaper did a 313 00:18:56,001 --> 00:18:59,041 Speaker 2: super interesting synopsis of other men who were from the 314 00:18:59,121 --> 00:19:03,201 Speaker 2: UK and went missing in Teneriffe and have never been found. 315 00:19:04,121 --> 00:19:06,801 Speaker 2: There was Billy Bennett, who was eighteen when he disappeared. 316 00:19:07,281 --> 00:19:09,961 Speaker 2: He was on vacation in Tenerief in December of nineteen 317 00:19:10,001 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 2: eighty five. He was supposed to go to the island 318 00:19:12,361 --> 00:19:14,400 Speaker 2: with a friend of his, but the friend couldn't go, 319 00:19:14,601 --> 00:19:18,801 Speaker 2: so Billy went alone. He stayed at the Los America's Resort, 320 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 2: the same resort where Jay stayed. He went to a 321 00:19:23,241 --> 00:19:27,481 Speaker 2: nightclub often called the Sergeant Pepper's Nightclub. The friend who 322 00:19:27,561 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 2: was supposed to go on the trip, talked to the 323 00:19:29,121 --> 00:19:32,361 Speaker 2: press later. He said that later he did go to Tenerief, 324 00:19:32,401 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 2: he met up with Billy. He said Billy was, in 325 00:19:34,921 --> 00:19:38,201 Speaker 2: his words, worse for wear. He said Billy told him 326 00:19:38,201 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 2: that he lost all of his money and was worried 327 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:41,201 Speaker 2: about having somewhere to go. 328 00:19:42,041 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 3: Billy was never heard from again. 329 00:19:44,361 --> 00:19:47,281 Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty seven, there was a similar story another 330 00:19:47,441 --> 00:19:50,081 Speaker 2: young guy, a twenty three year old named Ricky Decata. 331 00:19:50,641 --> 00:19:52,921 Speaker 2: He went to Tenerif in March of nineteen eighty seven 332 00:19:52,961 --> 00:19:56,681 Speaker 2: to party and never came home. He was working a 333 00:19:56,761 --> 00:19:59,161 Speaker 2: season out in Tenerief, which a lot of young people 334 00:19:59,201 --> 00:20:02,681 Speaker 2: in the UK do to earn money. Interestingly, he worked 335 00:20:02,681 --> 00:20:05,641 Speaker 2: in the same club that Billy frequented, the Sergeant Pepper's 336 00:20:05,681 --> 00:20:09,681 Speaker 2: Disco pub in the Plia Delas America's resort. His sister 337 00:20:09,721 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 2: was interviewed by the Independent newspaper back in two thousand 338 00:20:12,161 --> 00:20:16,241 Speaker 2: and one. She said that Ricky was a loving, caring brother. 339 00:20:16,681 --> 00:20:19,001 Speaker 2: She said he was super excited about going to work 340 00:20:19,041 --> 00:20:21,641 Speaker 2: in Spain. She said she talked to him and he 341 00:20:21,681 --> 00:20:24,041 Speaker 2: said he was planning to come home. He called in 342 00:20:24,041 --> 00:20:26,561 Speaker 2: October to ask for forty pounds for a ticket home 343 00:20:26,601 --> 00:20:29,801 Speaker 2: for Christmas. Then she said she called him and confirmed 344 00:20:29,801 --> 00:20:33,401 Speaker 2: that he did get that ticket money. But Ricky never 345 00:20:33,441 --> 00:20:36,321 Speaker 2: showed up for Christmas and his family never saw him again. 346 00:20:37,441 --> 00:20:41,241 Speaker 2: His passport was handed in to Spanish authorities, his bag 347 00:20:41,361 --> 00:20:45,361 Speaker 2: was given to the police, so eventually his parents got 348 00:20:45,361 --> 00:20:48,801 Speaker 2: his passport and his stuff back, but had no idea 349 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 2: what happened to Ricky. There's actually a lot more to 350 00:20:51,921 --> 00:20:54,201 Speaker 2: this story. There was a documentary made about the case 351 00:20:54,241 --> 00:20:57,641 Speaker 2: called Looking for Ricky. They did testing on five bodies 352 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,361 Speaker 2: that were found in Tenery that the tests were inconclusive. 353 00:21:01,521 --> 00:21:04,321 Speaker 2: The documentary put forward the theory that Ricky may be 354 00:21:04,441 --> 00:21:07,481 Speaker 2: indirectly involved in the drug trade and Tenery, basically that 355 00:21:07,561 --> 00:21:11,561 Speaker 2: he may have annoyed the wrong person, but no one 356 00:21:11,601 --> 00:21:15,481 Speaker 2: has ever been arrested or charged in this case. In 357 00:21:15,521 --> 00:21:19,201 Speaker 2: two thousand and four, another brit named Kevin Ainley disappeared. 358 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,641 Speaker 2: He also had moved to the same area. Just three 359 00:21:23,681 --> 00:21:26,241 Speaker 2: months after moving there, in June of two thousand and four, 360 00:21:26,481 --> 00:21:31,641 Speaker 2: he vanished. So young men who go to tenerieve to 361 00:21:31,721 --> 00:21:35,441 Speaker 2: have a good time had disappeared over the years, some 362 00:21:35,641 --> 00:21:37,161 Speaker 2: under mysterious circumstances. 363 00:21:38,801 --> 00:21:42,921 Speaker 3: But going back to Jay's case, a lot. 364 00:21:42,761 --> 00:21:45,241 Speaker 2: Of people were trying to figure out where the last 365 00:21:45,241 --> 00:21:47,041 Speaker 2: place that he was actually seen was. 366 00:21:47,521 --> 00:21:49,761 Speaker 3: Could something have happened to him in that airbnb? 367 00:21:51,881 --> 00:21:54,481 Speaker 2: And then things started to get even more crazy in 368 00:21:54,521 --> 00:21:57,721 Speaker 2: the case because a lot of people started flying out 369 00:21:57,721 --> 00:22:01,561 Speaker 2: to Tenerif from the UK to insert themselves into the investigation. 370 00:22:02,481 --> 00:22:03,561 Speaker 3: I don't want to sound. 371 00:22:03,321 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 2: Like the pot calling the kettle black here because I 372 00:22:06,121 --> 00:22:08,321 Speaker 2: in the past have been accused of doing the same 373 00:22:08,361 --> 00:22:11,561 Speaker 2: thing when a case is not getting attention after a 374 00:22:11,601 --> 00:22:14,481 Speaker 2: long time. Yes, I have inserted myself into it, but 375 00:22:15,401 --> 00:22:18,961 Speaker 2: I do feel strongly that in the beginning of a case, 376 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,881 Speaker 2: when the police are actively investigating, we have to let 377 00:22:21,881 --> 00:22:25,201 Speaker 2: them do their jobs. And I think it's important to 378 00:22:25,201 --> 00:22:29,241 Speaker 2: follow journalistic standards. It's fine to ask the police questions, 379 00:22:29,561 --> 00:22:32,521 Speaker 2: even aggressively, and to demand the truth, but we have 380 00:22:32,601 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 2: to maintain ethics in true crime reporting. One of the 381 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,281 Speaker 2: most important rules to follow is not to waste police 382 00:22:39,321 --> 00:22:42,521 Speaker 2: time or distract from the investigation, and people do not 383 00:22:42,601 --> 00:22:46,001 Speaker 2: seem to be following that rule here. TikTokers have shown 384 00:22:46,041 --> 00:22:49,761 Speaker 2: up in tenery by the dozens and so of journalists. 385 00:22:50,561 --> 00:22:53,561 Speaker 2: There's one female journalist from an ITV morning show by 386 00:22:53,601 --> 00:22:56,041 Speaker 2: the way, that's one of the main channels in the UK. 387 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,601 Speaker 2: She literally has teamed up with one of the British 388 00:22:59,601 --> 00:23:03,361 Speaker 2: TikTok stars and they're taking selfies together now. To be fair, 389 00:23:03,401 --> 00:23:06,521 Speaker 2: at least the TikToker, whose name is Paul Arnott, at 390 00:23:06,601 --> 00:23:10,201 Speaker 2: least he's a seasoned hiker. He says he did contact 391 00:23:10,201 --> 00:23:13,081 Speaker 2: the authorities and that he got the go ahead to 392 00:23:13,201 --> 00:23:16,001 Speaker 2: go out and search on his own. He's been posting 393 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,961 Speaker 2: lots of videos of himself with a camera, walking through 394 00:23:20,041 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 2: cactus and shooting the airbnb with what looks like a 395 00:23:24,241 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 2: long telephoto lens. It is surreal these bloggers are showing 396 00:23:28,641 --> 00:23:30,801 Speaker 2: up with drones and cameras, and there's been a lot 397 00:23:30,801 --> 00:23:34,321 Speaker 2: of criticism that not only are they not helping, they 398 00:23:34,401 --> 00:23:39,201 Speaker 2: may be making things worse. A lot of people wondered 399 00:23:39,241 --> 00:23:42,321 Speaker 2: about the two men who Jay was partying with. Who 400 00:23:42,361 --> 00:23:45,120 Speaker 2: were they, why were they staying in an Airbnb on 401 00:23:45,201 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 2: an isolated part of the island, what were they doing 402 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,961 Speaker 2: there and did they know Jay beforehand? But just like 403 00:23:52,001 --> 00:23:57,041 Speaker 2: in America, in an open investigation, police do not reveal 404 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 2: a lot of information, the Spanish police were no different. 405 00:24:00,561 --> 00:24:04,001 Speaker 2: Police did question the two men. According to media reports. 406 00:24:04,441 --> 00:24:07,121 Speaker 2: One of them is known by the nickname Johnny Vegas. 407 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,561 Speaker 2: They're both British Spanish. Police questioned the two men, they 408 00:24:11,601 --> 00:24:15,041 Speaker 2: said that they were cooperative. Police did get their passports 409 00:24:15,041 --> 00:24:18,241 Speaker 2: and their information, and then the two men flew home 410 00:24:18,401 --> 00:24:22,241 Speaker 2: back to Luton in the UK. In addition, a lot 411 00:24:22,281 --> 00:24:24,961 Speaker 2: of tourists have started flying over to Tenerif, which I 412 00:24:24,961 --> 00:24:31,001 Speaker 2: find absolutely fascinating. Groups of tourists in jeeps driving around 413 00:24:31,481 --> 00:24:35,681 Speaker 2: and taking selfies from the crime scene. They call it 414 00:24:35,801 --> 00:24:40,721 Speaker 2: dark tourism, and I noticed that in a vacuum of information, 415 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,801 Speaker 2: commenters do make certain criticisms. Side note, laws in European 416 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,881 Speaker 2: countries are very different to laws in the US, and 417 00:24:49,481 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 2: police do things differently. For example, they aren't allowed to 418 00:24:53,721 --> 00:24:57,641 Speaker 2: light to suspects in Europe, so they can't, for example, 419 00:24:57,801 --> 00:25:00,521 Speaker 2: throw two guys in an interrogation room and tell each 420 00:25:00,601 --> 00:25:02,961 Speaker 2: one that the other one said they did it. They're 421 00:25:03,001 --> 00:25:05,281 Speaker 2: not allowed to do stuff like that. They have to 422 00:25:05,281 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 2: go about their evidence gathering in a very different and 423 00:25:08,001 --> 00:25:12,441 Speaker 2: much more low key way. Another reason why I like 424 00:25:12,481 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 2: to cover cold cases is that I find if you 425 00:25:16,001 --> 00:25:19,481 Speaker 2: have a case that's actually grabbing headlines, you always have 426 00:25:19,641 --> 00:25:22,361 Speaker 2: people and I call them the obligatory experts, These people 427 00:25:22,401 --> 00:25:25,001 Speaker 2: who kind of rush to the scene. They start trying 428 00:25:25,041 --> 00:25:27,921 Speaker 2: to solve things, and I'm putting solved in air quotes. Really, 429 00:25:27,961 --> 00:25:30,281 Speaker 2: in my opinion, they're trying to grab headlines for themselves 430 00:25:30,801 --> 00:25:33,641 Speaker 2: and inevitably they get in the way the police. Well, 431 00:25:33,721 --> 00:25:36,201 Speaker 2: there's one of those experts in the United Kingdom. He's 432 00:25:36,201 --> 00:25:40,001 Speaker 2: a former police detective named Mark Williams Thomas. Now he's 433 00:25:40,041 --> 00:25:43,521 Speaker 2: a TV expert. So early in the case, he said 434 00:25:43,521 --> 00:25:45,401 Speaker 2: he they made contact with the family and he made 435 00:25:45,441 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 2: this big public statement and said he could get answers 436 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,761 Speaker 2: for the family in three days. So he flew to 437 00:25:50,801 --> 00:25:53,921 Speaker 2: Tenerief and held a press conference. This part was interesting 438 00:25:53,961 --> 00:25:57,360 Speaker 2: because Mark said he was working with the family. The 439 00:25:57,401 --> 00:26:00,801 Speaker 2: family wasn't there. He said this was because the Spanish 440 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,921 Speaker 2: police had not officially sanctioned this press conference. He said 441 00:26:04,961 --> 00:26:07,321 Speaker 2: he wanted to be able to get information without alienating 442 00:26:07,321 --> 00:26:11,761 Speaker 2: the authorities. But he said very publicly he was looking 443 00:26:11,921 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 2: for these two witnesses, the guys who Jay had partied 444 00:26:15,121 --> 00:26:18,201 Speaker 2: with back at the airbnb. He said that he was 445 00:26:18,241 --> 00:26:22,641 Speaker 2: appealing for these mystery men to come forward. But honestly, 446 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,601 Speaker 2: the police had already said they talked to these men. 447 00:26:25,681 --> 00:26:28,481 Speaker 2: The Spanish police said they had their details. The two 448 00:26:28,521 --> 00:26:31,801 Speaker 2: men had stayed for an extra day in Tenerief and 449 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,880 Speaker 2: then they'd flown back to the UK, so the Spanish 450 00:26:33,961 --> 00:26:35,521 Speaker 2: police know who these people are. 451 00:26:35,681 --> 00:26:36,641 Speaker 3: There's no need for. 452 00:26:36,641 --> 00:26:39,761 Speaker 2: These men to come forward and talk to a TV detective. 453 00:26:40,601 --> 00:26:43,321 Speaker 2: But Mark did pose an interesting question in the flurry 454 00:26:43,361 --> 00:26:47,201 Speaker 2: of all this publicity. He said, quote, what we don't 455 00:26:47,241 --> 00:26:49,961 Speaker 2: know is why, if they were partying here they went 456 00:26:50,001 --> 00:26:52,321 Speaker 2: to a holiday rental around an hour away in a 457 00:26:52,321 --> 00:26:53,321 Speaker 2: really remote location. 458 00:26:54,161 --> 00:26:54,761 Speaker 3: I don't know the. 459 00:26:54,721 --> 00:26:57,481 Speaker 2: Answer to that, but my focus is to find those people. 460 00:26:58,001 --> 00:27:00,641 Speaker 2: I am giving them the opportunity to come forward. They 461 00:27:00,641 --> 00:27:04,241 Speaker 2: are crucial witnesses and ask questions that could get answers 462 00:27:04,561 --> 00:27:09,521 Speaker 2: end quote Again, I don't really understand why these men 463 00:27:09,561 --> 00:27:12,001 Speaker 2: would need to come forward and talk to him, but 464 00:27:12,161 --> 00:27:14,961 Speaker 2: I do think that it's a good idea to appeal 465 00:27:15,041 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 2: for anyone who may have been on those roads, on 466 00:27:17,961 --> 00:27:21,041 Speaker 2: those skinny roads around Mascot at the time Jay disappeared 467 00:27:21,041 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 2: to come forward. Jay might have wandered off the road, 468 00:27:25,201 --> 00:27:27,441 Speaker 2: but we can't rule out the theory that someone could 469 00:27:27,481 --> 00:27:31,681 Speaker 2: have picked him up there. Mark Williams Thomas had another 470 00:27:31,761 --> 00:27:35,961 Speaker 2: update on July third, according to the Lancashire Telegraph, Mark 471 00:27:36,041 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 2: said that while Jay was riding with those two guys 472 00:27:38,681 --> 00:27:40,681 Speaker 2: in the car on the way back to their airbnb, 473 00:27:41,561 --> 00:27:44,961 Speaker 2: that Jay had allegedly posted a snap chat saying that 474 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,721 Speaker 2: he had stolen a twelve thousand pound Rolex watch off 475 00:27:48,761 --> 00:27:52,321 Speaker 2: someone back at the club. Mark told the newspaper quote, 476 00:27:52,601 --> 00:27:55,761 Speaker 2: We've been unable to validate this in terms of reported thefts. 477 00:27:56,121 --> 00:27:58,241 Speaker 2: Friends of Jay said he would not make this up 478 00:27:58,641 --> 00:28:01,561 Speaker 2: and the watch was subject to later conversation between the 479 00:28:01,601 --> 00:28:06,321 Speaker 2: friends end quote. So people are talking about this stolen 480 00:28:06,401 --> 00:28:09,961 Speaker 2: Rolex online. It's also been reported that after the club 481 00:28:09,961 --> 00:28:12,961 Speaker 2: where Jay was partying closed that a fight broke out 482 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 2: after a man said that his watch was stolen, but 483 00:28:15,721 --> 00:28:19,921 Speaker 2: again there's no proof of this yet. Mark also said, quote, 484 00:28:20,321 --> 00:28:23,441 Speaker 2: We've received information that would suggest Jay left the rental 485 00:28:23,481 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 2: property feeling scared. He would not return to the rental, 486 00:28:26,761 --> 00:28:28,761 Speaker 2: even though that would have been the most sensible course 487 00:28:28,801 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 2: of action. We continue to investigate this aspect end quote, 488 00:28:34,201 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 2: but again there's no proof of this. The Spanish police 489 00:28:37,401 --> 00:28:41,081 Speaker 2: have said the two British men, who again have cooperated 490 00:28:41,121 --> 00:28:45,321 Speaker 2: completely and flown home, are relevant to the investigation, they 491 00:28:45,361 --> 00:28:50,721 Speaker 2: actually used the word irrelevant. Then another friend came forward. 492 00:28:51,241 --> 00:28:53,641 Speaker 2: It turned out that Lucy may not have been the 493 00:28:53,721 --> 00:28:56,961 Speaker 2: last person to talk to Jay, because Brad, the third 494 00:28:57,041 --> 00:29:00,121 Speaker 2: friend who was with Lucy and Jay and Tenerife, made 495 00:29:00,201 --> 00:29:00,921 Speaker 2: his own video. 496 00:29:01,521 --> 00:29:03,561 Speaker 3: He said that he talked to Jay on the morning 497 00:29:03,561 --> 00:29:04,201 Speaker 3: he went missing. 498 00:29:04,801 --> 00:29:06,681 Speaker 2: He said they had a video chat and that in 499 00:29:06,721 --> 00:29:09,921 Speaker 2: that call, Jay was walking out there in the wilderness, 500 00:29:10,441 --> 00:29:12,881 Speaker 2: and he said Jay told him he had been walking 501 00:29:12,881 --> 00:29:16,281 Speaker 2: for thirty minutes, that he was taking a shortcut. Brad 502 00:29:16,361 --> 00:29:19,201 Speaker 2: said it sounded like Jay may have been slipping out there, 503 00:29:19,561 --> 00:29:23,961 Speaker 2: maybe on loose stones. Brad also cleared something else up. 504 00:29:24,921 --> 00:29:28,401 Speaker 2: He said that he, Jay and Lucy did know the 505 00:29:28,401 --> 00:29:31,201 Speaker 2: two men from the airbnb. He said they had been 506 00:29:31,201 --> 00:29:34,001 Speaker 2: talking to those guys and hanging out for a couple 507 00:29:34,001 --> 00:29:40,281 Speaker 2: of days before Jay disappeared. So I do wonder why 508 00:29:40,441 --> 00:29:43,201 Speaker 2: Jay didn't want to go back to the airbnb. Did 509 00:29:43,201 --> 00:29:45,401 Speaker 2: something I am pleasant go down between him and those 510 00:29:45,401 --> 00:29:50,481 Speaker 2: two men late night. But even if that was true, 511 00:29:50,881 --> 00:29:53,921 Speaker 2: the facts right now are that someone did see Jay 512 00:29:54,001 --> 00:29:57,521 Speaker 2: and talk to him after he left the airbnb. And 513 00:29:57,561 --> 00:29:59,761 Speaker 2: this is where you see the dark side of social media, 514 00:29:59,801 --> 00:30:02,281 Speaker 2: because yes, you get a lot of tips with publicity, 515 00:30:02,281 --> 00:30:05,281 Speaker 2: but you also get a lot of weird people and 516 00:30:05,401 --> 00:30:09,161 Speaker 2: Internet trolls. And this is where the dark tourism and 517 00:30:09,201 --> 00:30:12,201 Speaker 2: these message boards cross over from kind of a curiosity 518 00:30:12,681 --> 00:30:15,161 Speaker 2: to something that is, in my opinion, much more sinister. 519 00:30:16,401 --> 00:30:20,881 Speaker 2: Someone hacked Jay's Instagram. It's been reported that it was 520 00:30:20,921 --> 00:30:23,001 Speaker 2: hacked by someone who was trying to get in it 521 00:30:23,041 --> 00:30:26,561 Speaker 2: to find clues. I have no idea if that's true, 522 00:30:26,641 --> 00:30:28,881 Speaker 2: and if so, if it's someone who knew him or 523 00:30:28,921 --> 00:30:31,201 Speaker 2: someone who was trying to get information after reading about 524 00:30:31,241 --> 00:30:34,881 Speaker 2: the case, But either way, this is shocking. Jay's sister 525 00:30:34,961 --> 00:30:38,241 Speaker 2: addressed the message boards. She wrote on social media, quote, 526 00:30:38,281 --> 00:30:40,601 Speaker 2: all of the groups are full of trolls and sickos. 527 00:30:41,121 --> 00:30:43,521 Speaker 2: I can't believe some people are actually this sick in 528 00:30:43,521 --> 00:30:47,201 Speaker 2: the hed there are people hacking my accounts and Jay's family, 529 00:30:47,521 --> 00:30:50,121 Speaker 2: making it pure lies and pretending we are all in 530 00:30:50,161 --> 00:30:50,481 Speaker 2: on it. 531 00:30:50,761 --> 00:30:51,241 Speaker 3: End quote. 532 00:30:53,041 --> 00:30:56,161 Speaker 2: And at some point the internet turned on Jay himself. 533 00:30:56,641 --> 00:31:00,441 Speaker 2: We talk a lot in true crime about the perfect victim, 534 00:31:00,721 --> 00:31:03,521 Speaker 2: the idea that to get headlines to get public sympathy, 535 00:31:03,961 --> 00:31:06,881 Speaker 2: a victim has to seem pure, which I think is ridiculous, 536 00:31:07,281 --> 00:31:09,721 Speaker 2: but it's kind of a true crime trope that refuses 537 00:31:09,761 --> 00:31:13,401 Speaker 2: to die. It turned out that Jay, the fun loving 538 00:31:13,481 --> 00:31:21,601 Speaker 2: teen in the pictures, had had a dark past. In 539 00:31:21,601 --> 00:31:25,161 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, Jay and seven other teens were part 540 00:31:25,241 --> 00:31:28,321 Speaker 2: of a vicious machete attack on a seventeen year old 541 00:31:28,401 --> 00:31:32,121 Speaker 2: named Tom. The attack apparently started after a night out. 542 00:31:32,521 --> 00:31:35,281 Speaker 2: Tom was having issues with one of Jay's friend group 543 00:31:35,761 --> 00:31:39,481 Speaker 2: and it turned violent. The guys attacked Tom and chased 544 00:31:39,521 --> 00:31:42,761 Speaker 2: him outside the club. In court later, Tom said that 545 00:31:43,001 --> 00:31:45,441 Speaker 2: Jay and his friend were like a pack of gorillas. 546 00:31:46,121 --> 00:31:47,241 Speaker 3: They attacked Tom. 547 00:31:47,001 --> 00:31:49,641 Speaker 2: With a machete and a golf club, hitting him so 548 00:31:49,841 --> 00:31:54,041 Speaker 2: viciously that his skull was exposed. Later in court, the 549 00:31:54,161 --> 00:31:56,961 Speaker 2: judge said he was disgusted by Jay and his friends. 550 00:31:57,441 --> 00:31:59,561 Speaker 2: He said he was disgusted by the fact the teens 551 00:31:59,641 --> 00:32:02,601 Speaker 2: continued to laugh and joke throughout the trial and the 552 00:32:02,641 --> 00:32:06,361 Speaker 2: sentencing process. The judge said that some of the group, 553 00:32:06,441 --> 00:32:10,201 Speaker 2: though reportedly not Jay, were guilty of intimidation of witnesses, 554 00:32:10,361 --> 00:32:13,441 Speaker 2: drug charges, and robbery. Now it has been reported that 555 00:32:13,561 --> 00:32:15,841 Speaker 2: Jay was not one of the main instigators in this group, 556 00:32:15,881 --> 00:32:18,121 Speaker 2: that he was just kind of on the periphery, but 557 00:32:18,281 --> 00:32:23,681 Speaker 2: either way, this attack was horrifying. Sadly, the sentences were 558 00:32:23,761 --> 00:32:27,401 Speaker 2: shockingly light. In my opinion, Jay was given an eighteen 559 00:32:27,441 --> 00:32:31,601 Speaker 2: month community order. Like probation in the United States. He 560 00:32:31,721 --> 00:32:34,561 Speaker 2: was required to do community service and unpaid work. 561 00:32:34,641 --> 00:32:35,281 Speaker 3: That is it. 562 00:32:37,001 --> 00:32:43,081 Speaker 2: Some people described his disappearance as karma. I must say that, 563 00:32:43,361 --> 00:32:45,921 Speaker 2: in my opinion, the victim of this attack showed some 564 00:32:46,001 --> 00:32:50,641 Speaker 2: class here. He wrote on Facebook, quote, whoever is writing 565 00:32:50,681 --> 00:32:53,201 Speaker 2: on these tiktoks, give it a rest. The young lad's 566 00:32:53,241 --> 00:32:56,281 Speaker 2: missing in his family's heartbroken, Put yourself in their shoes, 567 00:32:56,321 --> 00:32:59,361 Speaker 2: Stop talking nonsense on social media and get this lad found. 568 00:32:59,881 --> 00:33:03,521 Speaker 2: Mentioning my name, this and that. Have some respect and 569 00:33:03,601 --> 00:33:06,121 Speaker 2: help find this boy and get him back to his family. 570 00:33:06,481 --> 00:33:12,641 Speaker 2: End quote. The case just kept getting crazier every day. 571 00:33:12,921 --> 00:33:17,201 Speaker 2: The British news would open with day ten, day eleven 572 00:33:17,201 --> 00:33:20,241 Speaker 2: of the jays later search. Then more and more people 573 00:33:20,281 --> 00:33:24,241 Speaker 2: started showing up this tourist destination. You had psychics and 574 00:33:24,561 --> 00:33:29,481 Speaker 2: other TikTok people with drones, more TV journalists, people retracing 575 00:33:29,561 --> 00:33:35,521 Speaker 2: the last steps from the airbnb. Then, in another stranger 576 00:33:35,561 --> 00:33:40,081 Speaker 2: than fiction twist, one hiker who was reported to be 577 00:33:40,161 --> 00:33:42,681 Speaker 2: someone who was looking for Jay, though that was never confirmed. 578 00:33:43,121 --> 00:33:43,721 Speaker 3: Police had to. 579 00:33:43,921 --> 00:33:47,881 Speaker 2: Come in and rescue him. The press release read quote 580 00:33:48,201 --> 00:33:51,121 Speaker 2: tired and disoriented, he was located by the agents and 581 00:33:51,121 --> 00:33:52,961 Speaker 2: the rescue team who helped get him out. 582 00:33:52,801 --> 00:33:55,241 Speaker 3: Of the ravine end quote. At first, a lot of 583 00:33:55,281 --> 00:33:56,121 Speaker 3: people got excited. 584 00:33:56,161 --> 00:33:58,441 Speaker 2: They thought maybe that Jay had been found, but no, 585 00:33:58,601 --> 00:34:02,081 Speaker 2: this was some random person who had turned up, presumably 586 00:34:02,121 --> 00:34:05,801 Speaker 2: for the search, and gotten lost himself, wasting more police 587 00:34:05,841 --> 00:34:13,401 Speaker 2: time and taking effort away from the attempt to find Jay. 588 00:34:14,401 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 2: Every area, every single small town, even the ones where 589 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 2: you say we can leave our doors unlocked at such 590 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 2: a safe place, they all have this side. So this 591 00:34:23,281 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 2: is not unique to this island, but Pliadella's America's, where 592 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 2: Jay was staying, in particular, is known for drugs. There 593 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,321 Speaker 2: have been a lot of high profile drug trafficking cases 594 00:34:33,321 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 2: there in recent years, including murders committed by gangs called 595 00:34:37,641 --> 00:34:41,641 Speaker 2: the Timeshare murders who were kind of fighting over property. 596 00:34:42,241 --> 00:34:45,081 Speaker 2: In addition to that, a local news outlet called Canarian 597 00:34:45,121 --> 00:34:48,601 Speaker 2: Weekly reported that crime in the Canary Islands has spiked 598 00:34:48,681 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 2: post COVID. In twenty twenty two, rape was up by 599 00:34:53,121 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 2: twenty seven percent, violent robberies thirty two percent, and drug 600 00:34:56,561 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 2: trafficking forty one percent. So it is possible that Jay 601 00:35:02,401 --> 00:35:04,841 Speaker 2: was partying with these guys and that he got into 602 00:35:04,841 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 2: a confrontation with them or with someone else. We do 603 00:35:07,561 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 2: have to be open minded and consider that. But I 604 00:35:11,041 --> 00:35:14,681 Speaker 2: keep coming back to the fact Jay was seen by 605 00:35:14,721 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 2: this woman after leaving the airbnb. Whatever happened that night, 606 00:35:19,921 --> 00:35:22,161 Speaker 2: he was out of that property, it was morning, he 607 00:35:22,201 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 2: was headed toward home. He walked uphill, not downhill, toward 608 00:35:26,241 --> 00:35:30,041 Speaker 2: the town. Why did he do that? And while thinking 609 00:35:30,081 --> 00:35:32,081 Speaker 2: about that, I also want to think about what we 610 00:35:32,161 --> 00:35:35,281 Speaker 2: can learn from this case going forward. One of the 611 00:35:35,321 --> 00:35:37,601 Speaker 2: reasons that I wanted to do this story was because 612 00:35:37,641 --> 00:35:39,961 Speaker 2: I have so many of these cases where someone's out 613 00:35:40,521 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 2: and they get into trouble, they get into a fight 614 00:35:43,241 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 2: with someone, or they're lost or potentially intoxicated, and their 615 00:35:48,081 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 2: phone battery dies. So I did some research and I 616 00:35:51,081 --> 00:35:53,841 Speaker 2: found out that there is a way if you have 617 00:35:53,921 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 2: an iPhone or an Android, there are ways to find 618 00:35:56,601 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 2: someone's location even if the. 619 00:35:58,001 --> 00:35:58,681 Speaker 3: Battery is dead. 620 00:35:59,321 --> 00:36:01,721 Speaker 2: But and this is the crucial part, you have to 621 00:36:01,881 --> 00:36:06,401 Speaker 2: enable it before you lose the phone, not afterwards. To 622 00:36:06,481 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 2: do this on an iPhone, you go to settings, your 623 00:36:09,201 --> 00:36:12,881 Speaker 2: name and then find my then you tick the option 624 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,601 Speaker 2: that says my network. This apparently enables to find my 625 00:36:16,681 --> 00:36:18,761 Speaker 2: feature to work even if the battery is dead or 626 00:36:18,761 --> 00:36:21,721 Speaker 2: the phone is offline. There's also an option there called 627 00:36:21,801 --> 00:36:24,801 Speaker 2: ce Last Location. You can opt in and that will 628 00:36:24,801 --> 00:36:29,081 Speaker 2: allow your phone to automatically send its last location to 629 00:36:29,121 --> 00:36:33,281 Speaker 2: Apple even if the battery is dying. I also wonder 630 00:36:33,321 --> 00:36:35,201 Speaker 2: if there were other apps on J's phone that could 631 00:36:35,201 --> 00:36:40,361 Speaker 2: have helped. We saw in a previous case that, for example, 632 00:36:40,401 --> 00:36:44,801 Speaker 2: the Health app was very helpful in measuring exactly where 633 00:36:44,881 --> 00:36:48,641 Speaker 2: this young man was walking and how long his strides were. Secondly, 634 00:36:48,721 --> 00:36:52,441 Speaker 2: and this will be controversial, I know, but I really 635 00:36:52,481 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 2: advise people not to give to go fundmes unless you 636 00:36:55,601 --> 00:36:58,641 Speaker 2: know the families personally. This is no reflection on Jay 637 00:36:58,721 --> 00:37:01,561 Speaker 2: or his family. This is just a general rule that 638 00:37:01,641 --> 00:37:06,241 Speaker 2: I follow because we have no idea who is using 639 00:37:06,241 --> 00:37:08,361 Speaker 2: the money or what it's being used for. There's really 640 00:37:08,401 --> 00:37:11,841 Speaker 2: no transparency. I would add, if you do give go 641 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,081 Speaker 2: fund me money to anyone, you just have to accept 642 00:37:14,081 --> 00:37:17,321 Speaker 2: the fact that you're gonna have no control over where 643 00:37:17,321 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 2: it goes, and give it as a gift with no 644 00:37:20,041 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 2: strings attached, and never think about it again. Treat it 645 00:37:22,601 --> 00:37:24,761 Speaker 2: like you would a gift to a friend, because in 646 00:37:24,801 --> 00:37:27,721 Speaker 2: my opinion, it is pointless to give to a GoFundMe 647 00:37:28,601 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 2: and later complain about how the funds are used. When 648 00:37:31,601 --> 00:37:34,601 Speaker 2: you give to go fund me, you relinquish that control. 649 00:37:35,921 --> 00:37:38,361 Speaker 2: And Third, I think we all have to take a long, 650 00:37:38,561 --> 00:37:42,001 Speaker 2: hard look at what we're doing on social media. If 651 00:37:42,121 --> 00:37:44,761 Speaker 2: we post on social media and groups for a case, 652 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,761 Speaker 2: we really have to remember this is a living person, 653 00:37:47,921 --> 00:37:51,561 Speaker 2: this is a real family. In this case, people have 654 00:37:51,601 --> 00:37:54,641 Speaker 2: been making memes about Jay Slater's case, treating it like 655 00:37:54,721 --> 00:37:57,881 Speaker 2: a joke, sending messages to the family, trying to get 656 00:37:57,881 --> 00:38:01,281 Speaker 2: into someone's Instagram, and then even clogging up. 657 00:38:01,161 --> 00:38:02,001 Speaker 3: The search trails. 658 00:38:02,561 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 2: It's not only immoral and unhelpful, it's potentially illegal. It's 659 00:38:07,081 --> 00:38:09,921 Speaker 2: easy to forget these are not just news stories. These 660 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:15,201 Speaker 2: are real people. So why did Jay randomly walk uphill? 661 00:38:16,001 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 2: I do have a theory, it's just an idea. 662 00:38:18,681 --> 00:38:19,241 Speaker 3: At this point. 663 00:38:19,321 --> 00:38:22,241 Speaker 2: Again, I'm not actively investigating this case. I'm letting the 664 00:38:22,281 --> 00:38:25,881 Speaker 2: police do that. I did a Google Map search. I 665 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,321 Speaker 2: asked for walking directions from the airbnb down to the 666 00:38:29,361 --> 00:38:32,681 Speaker 2: town of Masca below. I noticed that when I did 667 00:38:32,681 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 2: this for driving directions, it guided me down the hill 668 00:38:36,281 --> 00:38:39,041 Speaker 2: from the airbnb. It said it would be a twenty 669 00:38:39,081 --> 00:38:42,721 Speaker 2: minute drive, and this was about a thirty kilometer distance, 670 00:38:42,801 --> 00:38:46,641 Speaker 2: about eighteen minless. But if you put in walking directions 671 00:38:47,521 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 2: for some reason, the walking direction takes you back up 672 00:38:51,001 --> 00:38:53,681 Speaker 2: the hill and it says it takes six hours and 673 00:38:53,761 --> 00:38:54,601 Speaker 2: sixteen minutes. 674 00:38:55,321 --> 00:38:57,161 Speaker 3: So and again this is just a guess. 675 00:38:57,921 --> 00:39:01,401 Speaker 2: Maybe Jay did start walking in that direction, not realizing 676 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,281 Speaker 2: it was eighteen miles away and that it would have 677 00:39:03,321 --> 00:39:05,881 Speaker 2: taken him at least eleven hours to do that walk. 678 00:39:07,001 --> 00:39:08,721 Speaker 2: Maybe he was out of it. It was early in 679 00:39:08,721 --> 00:39:12,681 Speaker 2: the morning, he'd been out all night. Given what we 680 00:39:12,841 --> 00:39:15,361 Speaker 2: know now, and again we do not have all the 681 00:39:15,401 --> 00:39:18,841 Speaker 2: info that police do. For good reasons, I do think 682 00:39:18,921 --> 00:39:22,601 Speaker 2: it's more likely that Jay got off the road somehow 683 00:39:22,801 --> 00:39:26,081 Speaker 2: or tried to take a shortcut. Jay's phone was dying 684 00:39:26,121 --> 00:39:27,801 Speaker 2: and he was tired and dehydrated. 685 00:39:28,401 --> 00:39:29,281 Speaker 3: Temperatures in that. 686 00:39:29,241 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 2: Area are brutal, approaching one hundred degrees during the day 687 00:39:32,641 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 2: and down to the thirties a night. In fact, the 688 00:39:35,641 --> 00:39:38,641 Speaker 2: UK Foreign Office has a travel advice warning for that area. 689 00:39:38,841 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 2: They tell visitors to be very careful when hiking or 690 00:39:42,041 --> 00:39:44,960 Speaker 2: walking in that area. Also by the way, a risk 691 00:39:45,001 --> 00:39:47,761 Speaker 2: of altitude sickness up there, which would have been a 692 00:39:47,761 --> 00:39:52,881 Speaker 2: lot worse with a hangover and dehydration. So this was 693 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,721 Speaker 2: Jay's first trip abroad, first time in a foreign country. 694 00:39:56,081 --> 00:39:59,161 Speaker 2: The terrain there can be deadly, but that's easy to forget. 695 00:39:59,721 --> 00:40:02,041 Speaker 2: It reminds me a lot of people who go missing 696 00:40:02,041 --> 00:40:02,881 Speaker 2: in Malibu. 697 00:40:03,281 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 3: It's such a. 698 00:40:03,881 --> 00:40:06,480 Speaker 2: Temperate, nice area with the beach during the day and 699 00:40:06,841 --> 00:40:09,601 Speaker 2: lots of people around. It is easy to forget that 700 00:40:09,641 --> 00:40:12,841 Speaker 2: if you get lost out there, you're basically crossing a 701 00:40:12,881 --> 00:40:17,841 Speaker 2: desert in your beach clothes. Once reporters stopped walking in 702 00:40:17,881 --> 00:40:20,401 Speaker 2: the hills in their tennis shoes and they actually took 703 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,161 Speaker 2: the time to interview local residents, which is such an 704 00:40:23,161 --> 00:40:26,120 Speaker 2: important part of these stories. They interviewed a woman who 705 00:40:26,201 --> 00:40:28,761 Speaker 2: lived in that area, and I think that her comment 706 00:40:29,801 --> 00:40:33,480 Speaker 2: was one of the most sensible of the entire investigation. 707 00:40:34,281 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 2: She said that people go missing in those hills all 708 00:40:37,521 --> 00:40:41,881 Speaker 2: the time. That takes police months or years to find 709 00:40:41,881 --> 00:40:44,761 Speaker 2: some of them, and some of them are never found. 710 00:40:47,761 --> 00:40:56,121 Speaker 2: I'm Katherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen 711 00:40:56,161 --> 00:40:58,241 Speaker 2: Gone Murder Line is a production of School of Humans, 712 00:40:58,241 --> 00:41:01,441 Speaker 2: and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated by me Catherine 713 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,921 Speaker 2: Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts. Special thanks to Amy 714 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:06,440 Speaker 2: Tubbs for her research assistance. 715 00:41:07,161 --> 00:41:10,921 Speaker 3: Music contributed by Ben Sale. This episode was sound designed and. 716 00:41:10,921 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 2: Mixed by Noah Camer Executive producers of Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, 717 00:41:15,641 --> 00:41:18,761 Speaker 2: and Else Crowley. Listen to Helen Gone ad free by 718 00:41:18,801 --> 00:41:22,281 Speaker 2: subscribing to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. 719 00:41:22,561 --> 00:41:25,321 Speaker 2: You can follow the show on Instagram at Helen Gone Pod. 720 00:41:26,041 --> 00:41:27,681 Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my 721 00:41:27,721 --> 00:41:29,721 Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us 722 00:41:29,761 --> 00:41:32,000 Speaker 2: at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight 723 00:41:32,161 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 2: seven four four six one four or five. That's six 724 00:41:35,201 --> 00:41:38,361 Speaker 2: seven eight seven four four six one four or five. 725 00:41:47,041 --> 00:41:47,961 Speaker 1: School of Humans