1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 2: Welcome to Math and Magic. I'm Bob Pittman. Over the years, 3 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 2: I've talked with dozens of guests, ranging from marketing executives 4 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 2: to musicians to company founders. I've asked what inspired them 5 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 2: in their childhoods, how they've reached and exceeded their career goals, 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 2: and what tips and tricks they've learned along the way. 7 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 2: In today's bonus episode, I'm highlighting some of the most 8 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 2: memorable marketing stories, the lessons our guests learned the hard 9 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 2: way by trying and failing, by taking a big risk, 10 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 2: or maybe by getting a piece of feedback that changed everything. 11 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 2: Kellen Smith Kenney is the chief marketing and Growth Officer 12 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 2: at AT and T, and that's not the only iconic 13 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 2: brand she's helped innovate. On her resume, you'll find companies 14 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 2: like Microsoft, Hilton Capital, I, and Uber. 15 00:00:58,800 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 3: I wanted to. 16 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 2: Know what experiences have helped her cultivate the power of 17 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 2: a brand. 18 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 4: Gosh, I've had such incredible opportunities in my career. The 19 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 4: thing I learned at Microsoft is that technology and technology 20 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 4: alone is not going to be the reason why somebody 21 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 4: adopts your product. I worked at Microsoft and the very 22 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 4: first product I worked on was Windows Vista. It was 23 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 4: one of the most highly anticipated technology products of its era. 24 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 4: I think it was five years in the making, people 25 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 4: everywhere or on the edge of their seats waiting to 26 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 4: see what Microsoft would release. You probably remember that when 27 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 4: we released it into the marketplace, it landed like a 28 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 4: nuclear thud bom bomb. It was a total bomb. And 29 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 4: what we learned in that time was that we had 30 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 4: fallen in love with the technology and we had forgotten 31 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 4: about the most important person in the equation, and that 32 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 4: was the end user we metis the consumerization of technology. 33 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 4: We missed that the vast majority of our customers weren't 34 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 4: using ninety nine percent of the features that we put 35 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,399 Speaker 4: in that operating system. That ultimately bloaded the operating system, 36 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 4: slowed it down and made it far less attractive. And 37 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 4: so the incredible lesson learned from Microsoft is focus on 38 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 4: the customer. I've seen at times in my career, whether 39 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 4: it was teams I was on or competitors I was 40 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 4: facing off against. Is when you obsess over the competition 41 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 4: instead of obsessing over the customer, you're going to get 42 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 4: yourself into big trouble because if you're obsessing over the competition, 43 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 4: all you can ever know is what they've already done. 44 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,519 Speaker 4: You can't drive a car ninety miles an hour down 45 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 4: the road if you're looking in the rear view mirror, 46 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 4: and when you're studying the competition, you can only be 47 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 4: looking backwards. 48 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 2: It sounds like you probably did the same thing, yet, 49 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 2: Gap one, Uber and Hilton too. A consumer focus seems 50 00:02:58,400 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 2: to be your hallmark. 51 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 3: Thank you. 52 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say at Capital One, we were incredibly, 53 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 4: incredibly scientific about how we went to market, and so 54 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 4: we treated it as this just obsession with getting better 55 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 4: and better. The other thing that was incredible about Capital 56 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 4: One is that that company found religion about building a 57 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 4: brand through all of the testing and learning that it did. 58 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,679 Speaker 4: And so, years and years ago, when Capital One was 59 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 4: one of the largest customers of the US Postal Service, 60 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 4: they ran a test a blank envelope with no branding 61 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 4: on it, and then an envelope that actually had the 62 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 4: Capital One logo on the outer left hand corner. And 63 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 4: what they originally found was that the blank envelope outperformed 64 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 4: the branded envelope, and right then and there, Yeah, ouch, 65 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 4: and right then and there, the founder and CEO of 66 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 4: Capital One, Rich Fairbank, said this is unacceptable. We have 67 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 4: got to build this, and so that's when the company 68 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 4: really leaned into building awareness, building consideration, building familiarity, and 69 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 4: ultimately preference. 70 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: Kellen has learned to use challenges as stepping stones to 71 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 2: new ideas, and one lesson that's been ingrained time and 72 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 2: time again is listened to the customer. It's a centiment. 73 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 2: Our next guest has also taken the heart. Academy Award 74 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 2: winning actor Gwyneth Paltrow has a business born from passion. 75 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 2: In two thousand and eight, she started a newsletter with 76 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 2: personally curated recipes, travel tips, and more. It transformed into 77 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 2: Goop lifestyle brand, now worth two hundred and fifty million dollars. 78 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 2: It was a consumer's feedback that helped Gwyneth realize how 79 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 2: to monetize what she was building and to combine editorial 80 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 2: and commerce. Let's hear what happened. 81 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 5: For so long, I was so allergic to being transactional 82 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 5: in that sense, and I'll never forget. I published one 83 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 5: issue of GUP. I published an article on the French pharmacy, 84 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 5: which I'm sure you know. When you go to Paris 85 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 5: or anywhere in France, the pharmacies there are so cool 86 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 5: and they have like, you know, homeopathic things, and they 87 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:20,679 Speaker 5: have like all this special stuff. And so I wrote 88 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 5: a piece saying, you know, this is this great you know, 89 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 5: burn cream, and this these probatic tampons, and there's this 90 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 5: great lip bomb and all this stuff. And a woman 91 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 5: stopped me and she said, oh my god, I loved 92 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 5: that article on the French pharmacy. But it was so 93 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 5: frustrating for me that I couldn't just click to buy everything. 94 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 5: I was on Amazon dot fr trying to buy this 95 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 5: and that and searching, and it was the first time 96 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 5: that it occurred to me that transaction could actually be 97 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 5: a service as well, and that you didn't have to 98 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 5: push product for revenue. If you made or curated things 99 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 5: that you really believe in and thought were going to 100 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 5: genuinely elevate someone's life in some way, that you could 101 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 5: do what we then called contextual commerce. And we've always 102 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 5: stayed true to those principles. You know, we're obsessed with 103 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 5: clean beauty, and we have the highest clean beauty standards 104 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 5: in the business, and so I think when people come 105 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 5: to the website they understand that, and they understand that 106 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 5: there's a really strong point of view. You know, I 107 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 5: have a very strong point of view around fashion. So 108 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 5: even when we were just buying, like from a wholesale 109 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 5: perspective and had a multi brand matrix, it was very 110 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 5: specific when we started g label our clothing line is 111 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,479 Speaker 5: very very true to me. So I wouldn't have been 112 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 5: able to sleep at night if I felt like I 113 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 5: was pushing something on somebody. 114 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 2: Whyneth realized there's real value in her point of view 115 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 2: and recommendations. By listening to her subscribers and to her 116 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 2: own intuition, she closed a gap in the market that 117 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 2: other people hadn't yet figured out how to bridge. Likewise, 118 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 2: Andrew Dureki's journey as an entrepreneur started with an unmet need. Today, 119 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 2: he's a filmmaker behind incredible documentaries like Capturing the Freedman's 120 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 2: which earned an Academy Award nomination, and of course, the 121 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 2: Emmy Award winning HBO series The Jinks, The Life and 122 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 2: Deaths of Robert Durst. But before he moved to the 123 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 2: creative side of the business, he made a fortune on 124 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 2: an idea trying to solve a problem for himself and 125 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 2: moviefoone was born. Marketing this brand new concept was no 126 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 2: easy feat though. 127 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 6: I was trying to go to the movies around nineteen 128 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 6: eighty eight and I was calling my local theater, which 129 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 6: he used to have to do because the New York 130 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 6: Times didn't have all the show times in it. The 131 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 6: theater phone lines were always busy because the theaters didn't 132 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 6: understand that there were two thousand people trying to call 133 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 6: in a twenty minute period for that night. And I 134 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 6: got through at eight fifteen and the machine told me 135 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 6: that the movie had started at eight o'clock. And I thought, 136 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 6: why did I? I just ruined my night, and this multi 137 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 6: billion dollar movie industry doesn't get that I'm not able 138 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 6: to go out and buy my seven dollars then movie ticket. 139 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 6: So I thought, you know, voicemail was pretty advanced then, 140 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 6: and I thought, well, don't we create a service that 141 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 6: lets you push buttons. Maybe it's a free local service 142 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 6: and you put in the first three letters of the 143 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 6: movie title, put in your zip code, and it would 144 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 6: spit out just the theater closest to you, just the 145 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 6: information that you needed. I thought that would be a 146 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 6: cool thing for me to use. I didn't really think 147 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 6: about it as a business at first, and then eventually, 148 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 6: when we put it up on a bit of a lark, 149 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 6: we started to see people calling and suddenly we were 150 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 6: getting you have twenty seven calls this hour, and then 151 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 6: later I would call it and say, you have one 152 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 6: hundred and forty two thousand calls this hour. Like that 153 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 6: started happening, and we were amazed by it. 154 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 2: And so that's the idea. You get it started. How 155 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 2: did you know how to turn that into a business. 156 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 6: It's true, And you know, my I was very lucky 157 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 6: because my dad is a very smart business person, and 158 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 6: you know, he started out as a psychiatrist, but he 159 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 6: always had a business bug. He was so smart about business. 160 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 6: So I think I immediately thought, well, this thing that 161 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 6: we just put together seems to be working for consumers. 162 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,319 Speaker 6: I wonder how much I can promote it. I wonder 163 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 6: how I can promote it. I talked to my dad 164 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 6: about it. I talked to other smart people that I knew. 165 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 6: It was pretty clear that all of our customers were 166 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 6: walking through the doors of about five thousand cinemas in America. 167 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 6: So if I could get the number seven seven seven 168 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 6: film in front of people up on the screens and 169 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 6: trailers before the movie. I also figured out everybody's motivations quickly. 170 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 6: I went to a bunch of conventions, Show East and 171 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 6: show West. I didn't know anybody, and I just walked 172 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 6: around talked to everybody. This is the movie business in 173 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 6: the movie business, and I realized that nobody was talking 174 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 6: to each other. They didn't understand that moviegoers were having 175 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 6: trouble going to the movies. It was just a pain 176 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 6: in the neck to do it. And the studios didn't 177 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 6: really control the theaters. The theaters didn't control the studio, 178 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 6: and I thought, well, there's a window in here where 179 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 6: I could make things easier for the consumer and also 180 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 6: make something that would be very useful for the industry. 181 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 6: So we just started to figure out where are the 182 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 6: little pinch points and leverage points. So, for example, I 183 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 6: knew that the theater owners had control over their movie screens. 184 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 6: At the time, nobody was doing advertising on movie screens. 185 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 6: So I said to the theater owners, if I give 186 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 6: you a thirty second ad for moviefone and it's entertaining, 187 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 6: will you put it up on their screens. Knowing that 188 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 6: they had a problem, which was that the newspapers were 189 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 6: charging them a fortune to put their movie listings in 190 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 6: the newspapers. The studios weren't helping them, so they said, well, 191 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 6: if this guy's coming along, it is going. 192 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 3: To do it for free. 193 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 6: I'll give him thirty seconds of free time before the movie. 194 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 6: So that was an example of some marketing thinking that 195 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 6: helped us tremendously, and it was a very you know, 196 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 6: what do they say, all marketing is local, you know, 197 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 6: getting out into the movie theaters, handing out little cards 198 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 6: to people, getting that message up on the screen. It's 199 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 6: sort of flowed naturally. 200 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 2: Andrew went on to sell movie Phone to AOL for 201 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 2: almost four hundred million dollars. He said it started on 202 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 2: a lark, but soon enough he recognized that there was 203 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 2: powerful potential in connecting and leveraging industry players. We'll be 204 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 2: right back after a quick break. Welcome back to today's bonus 205 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 2: episode of Math and Magic, where I'm sharing some of 206 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 2: my favorite marketing stories. John bon Jovi has sold one 207 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty million albums worldwide, and he's played nearly 208 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 2: three thousand concerts for thirty five million fans. 209 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 3: Plus. 210 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 2: He's made waves as an entrepreneur and a philanthropist. When 211 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 2: I sat down with him at the Possible conference in Miami, 212 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 2: I wanted to know how he thinks about his brand 213 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 2: and its impact. 214 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 7: Well, nothing would have happened if he didn't have a song. 215 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 7: So the brand had to be built on a solid foundation, 216 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 7: which was the song and being true to who and 217 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 7: what I was in order for the collective we to 218 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 7: then be true to who we were. And so that 219 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 7: is the basis of all of it. Not to chase 220 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 7: fads and fascis was also really important to me. Fads 221 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:21,319 Speaker 7: and fashions come and go, and the truth will always prevail. 222 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 2: Were you ever tempted with any of the fads or fashions, 223 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 2: I don't think so. 224 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 7: I may have been a byproduct of the clothes you 225 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 7: wore in the eighties or the haircut you had in it, 226 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 7: but that's who and what you were in real time. 227 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 7: And if the next fat and fashion came along, I e. 228 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 7: In our business, boy bands and then grunge music and 229 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 7: then wrap, you know, we were there the advent of 230 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 7: rap and to start doing duets would not have seemed honest, 231 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 7: you know, to certainly be with a boy band and 232 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 7: or you know, none of that would have rung true. 233 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 7: So I was smart enough to know not to get 234 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 7: a flannel shirt. When Seattle became popular, it was just 235 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 7: stay the quarters. 236 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 2: Let's talk about intergenerational hits. My friend's daughter, it's twenty two. 237 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 2: She was in a college bar, Living on a prayer 238 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 2: comes on. The kids all start dancing on the tables. 239 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 2: They weren't even born when the song came out. What 240 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 2: is it about your music that connects with such a 241 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 2: young generation even though it was made originally for a 242 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 2: completely different generation. 243 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 7: Again, I think it comes down to truth. No matter 244 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 7: what were collectively marketing and or you know the dirty 245 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 7: word it's selling, it has to be based in truth 246 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 7: because even if you pull the wool over someone's eyes once, 247 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 7: it's not going to resonate the second time. Right, So 248 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 7: when we wrote a song, if I was doing it 249 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 7: from a place of honesty, that song resonated with me, 250 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 7: and therefore I was confident it would probably resonate with 251 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 7: that audience. Songs like Living under Prayer, when we wrote 252 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 7: them to be bluntly honest, I didn't REALI is what 253 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 7: we had, but I felt that the character driven storyline 254 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 7: was legit, and in doing so, you know, Obviously, that's 255 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 7: one of the many that has stood the test of 256 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 7: time that it's as simple as that, because it just 257 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 7: it's everybody's story. 258 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 2: Jon bon Jovi has built a career in authenticity. It's 259 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 2: by speaking his truth that he connects with others. Bobby 260 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 2: Brown has also made a name for herself by sticking 261 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 2: with her strengths even when others were saying that their 262 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 2: makeup style would never catch on. Bobby's the founder of 263 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 2: Bobby Brown Cosmetics, which she sold to Este Lauder in 264 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five. She continued working for her namesake brand 265 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 2: until twenty sixteen. Since then, she's launched Jones Road Beauty, 266 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 2: a direct to consumer cosmetic brand that has stayed true 267 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 2: to the style that made her famous. 268 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 8: Right before nineteen ninety the whole scene in New York 269 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 8: was a lot of parties, a lot of going out 270 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 8: to the clubs. Women were doing makeup like multi colored 271 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 8: eyes and overlined lips and all this crazy stuff. And 272 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 8: when I came to New York, I got a job 273 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 8: to do a cover of Cosmopolitan at Jerry Hall. I 274 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 8: tried everything in my power to do her makeup grade 275 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 8: and she was so kind and she said beautiful job, 276 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 8: but can I have the mirror. I gave her the 277 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 8: mirror and she said, can I just make a few touches? 278 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 8: She redid her whole face and I learned watching. I 279 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 8: didn't feel bad. I really learned, but I realized I 280 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 8: can't do that kind of makeup. So I started doing 281 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 8: it my way, and it kind of slowly caught on. 282 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 2: So what was your inspiration for your way? Because this 283 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 2: was not the way. 284 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 8: No, it was definitely not the way. When I was 285 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 8: in middle school, I wanted to be pretty and I 286 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 8: didn't think I was, and I would use my mom's 287 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 8: makeup to make me look tan and pretty. I didn't 288 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 8: want anyone to know I was wearing makeup. And then 289 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 8: when I became a makeup artist, I started doing that 290 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 8: to models. People told me I'd never work. If you 291 00:15:58,280 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 8: want to work, you have to learn to do the 292 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 8: other thing. But I just couldn't do it, and so 293 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 8: I started doing it my way, and it slowly, slowly 294 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 8: took on. 295 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 2: What big names adopted your style that sort of gave 296 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 2: you cred and sort of pushed you over that tipping 297 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 2: point for you. 298 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 8: I did a cover of Rolling Stone with Annie Leebowitz, 299 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 8: and I made the guys look good, and Keith Richards's 300 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 8: manager came over to me and said, oh my god. 301 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 3: Can we book you again? 302 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 8: And so I got a couple of times got hired 303 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 8: to do it because I always made people look healthy. 304 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 2: Stones that's pretty good. 305 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 9: That was pretty good. 306 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 3: That's pretty good. 307 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 2: Some might have seen that moment when Jerry Hall redid 308 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 2: her makeup as a failure, but Bobby was determined to 309 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 2: keep doing things her way and it caught on. This 310 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 2: was just a sign of the mini successes that followed 311 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 2: by trusting her gut and staying true to herself. Olivia 312 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 2: Francois is another math, the magic guest who was able 313 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 2: to take an idea and tap into something bigger than himself. 314 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 2: Olivier is now the CEO of Fiat. I asked him 315 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 2: about what I think is one of the greatest lines 316 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 2: of all time, Imported from Detroit. This became part of 317 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,439 Speaker 2: the impactful Super Bowl commercial during his time as CMO 318 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 2: of FII Chrysler. It all started when he was trying 319 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 2: to introduce a new car at the LA Auto Show. 320 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 9: One thing I didn't know is that the LA Auto 321 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 9: Show is really where you celebrate Japanese cars. German cars, 322 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 9: maybe Italian cars by the way, but for sure not 323 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 9: a Chrysler. 324 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 3: So too late. 325 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,439 Speaker 9: I'm on stage presenting my new baby, and when I 326 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 9: realized that La is home of the Impulse, I just 327 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 9: instinctively pitched it. 328 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 3: I made this up on stage. 329 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 9: I say, hey, I know that you guys like Impulse 330 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 9: and we are in La, so look at this car, 331 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 9: like imported from Detroit. 332 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 3: It was just my ending. 333 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 9: And actually a couple of people came and said that 334 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 9: would be a good line for ant and then I 335 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 9: thought of it, you know, and I said, yeah, that's 336 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 9: a good line for an. 337 00:17:58,040 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 3: Then clearly the soundtrack came. 338 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 9: I have four kids, two of which at the time 339 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 9: were very much into hip hop and introduced me to Eminem, 340 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 9: and obviously, when we started sinking of Detroit, obviously that 341 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 9: tune came to mind. When you have one chance, one 342 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 9: opportunity that totally connects together Chrysler, Detroit and all of America. 343 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 9: So I was obsessed with securing that song, which ended 344 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 9: up being an endeavor to say the least. Once I 345 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 9: had the song, Eminem was so intwiged. 346 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:30,479 Speaker 3: You know. 347 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 9: It was never scripted to be in the commercial. It 348 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 9: was just kind of probably in twiged and at the 349 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 9: same time it'd be a bit scared by rightfully, So 350 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 9: you know, what are these advertisers. 351 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 3: Going to do with my song? 352 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 9: I promised him that would be probably more largely about 353 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 9: Detroit than just about a car for sure, or even 354 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 9: a brand. 355 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:55,439 Speaker 3: But he came on set and then it just magic happened. 356 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 9: So I'm from six hundred cars per months to seek 357 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 9: thousand after the commercial. That's a math aspect, and the 358 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 9: magic is what happened in the whole country because obviously 359 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 9: the commercial resonated with more. 360 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 3: Than just Detroit, with more than just car guys. 361 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 9: It donated as a message of pride for all of America. 362 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 2: Eminem ended up starring in the commercial and the final 363 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 2: line of the screen reads Imported from Detroit. You may 364 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 2: even remember it from the Super Bowl in twenty sixteen, 365 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 2: or it's not too late to look it up as 366 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 2: the perfect example of both math and magic. I'm Bob Pittman. 367 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and stay tuned for a brand new 368 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 2: season of Math and Magic with a whole new batch 369 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 2: of marketing stories coming to your ears soon. 370 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: That's it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening 371 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: to Math and Magic, a production of iHeart Podcasts. The 372 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 1: show is hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sydney 373 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: Rosenvelt for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent no small feat. 374 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,120 Speaker 1: The Math and Magic team is Jessica crimecicch, but Heid 375 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: Fraser and Julia Weaver. Our executive producers are Ali Perry 376 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: and nicky Etour Until next Time.