Speaker 1: Hold on, ed.
Speaker 2: What you're trying to tell me is they made a
Speaker 2: bunch of men share responsibility for power and it didn't
Speaker 2: work out. They couldn't all just get along. And you know,
Speaker 2: best idea wins.
Speaker 1: Believe it or not. I mean, this is like the
Speaker 1: one time a bunch of dudes like didn't get it right.
Speaker 2: How do you say penis measuring contest in French? Do
Speaker 2: you know?
Speaker 1: Contest? Welcome to Snaffo, the Show about History's greatest screw ups.
Speaker 1: I'm at Helms and today I am joined by the
Speaker 1: Emmy and Peabody Award winning journalist, host of the iHeart podcast,
Speaker 1: Good Game, all around sports fanatic. And also she's someone
Speaker 1: who I recently met and just happened to adore. It
Speaker 1: is the one and only Sarah Spain.
Speaker 3: Thanks so much for having me and saying that that's
Speaker 3: so nice.
Speaker 1: Well right on, we hit it off. Yeah, we we
Speaker 1: were both in Austin at south By Southwest for some
Speaker 1: iHeart podcast fun and yeah, it was just fun to connect.
Speaker 1: Did you have a good time down there?
Speaker 3: I did.
Speaker 2: That was actually my first time at south By Southwest.
Speaker 2: And I know that the iHeart treatment is not what
Speaker 2: everyone gets because we were in that beautiful hotel and
Speaker 2: never really had to leave.
Speaker 1: I just got to roll.
Speaker 2: Out of bed, walk out into this beautiful yard, and
Speaker 2: go to different parties for awesome people in their podcasts.
Speaker 2: I know sometimes people have to actually go to I
Speaker 2: think conference rooms and meeting areas and things like that.
Speaker 2: We just got to hang out with cool people like you.
Speaker 1: And so I loved it at the Hotel Saint Cecilia,
Speaker 1: which is, oh, what a gorgeous spot. So, Sarah, I
Speaker 1: asked this, of all my guests on snapho, what is
Speaker 1: this snaffhoo from your life? A personal snaphoo of some sort?
Speaker 2: I will I will try to tell this story type
Speaker 2: because it has many twists and turns, but I think
Speaker 2: the payoff is worth it.
Speaker 3: So let's just say I have terrible sets of direction.
Speaker 2: And I am also a multitasker, which puts me in
Speaker 2: the position where I'm leaving a physical therapy appointment that
Speaker 2: is only about fifteen minutes away from my home. I
Speaker 2: am trying to be on a conference call while driving
Speaker 2: while plugging into my GPS. The closest Mariano's grocery store
Speaker 2: here in Chicago. I see one that pops up and
Speaker 2: it says Ashland. I'm like, yep, that's the one near me.
Speaker 1: I hit go.
Speaker 3: I'm still taking the conference call. I start driving.
Speaker 2: I realize I've selected one that is not the one
Speaker 2: that's near me. But since I'm driving and I don't
Speaker 2: really have hands to plug it in again, I'm like, whatever,
Speaker 2: I'll just go to this when it can't be that far.
Speaker 2: It's pretty far. The problem is that on the way there,
Speaker 2: I acquire a flat tire. So I don't know this yet,
Speaker 2: but I go into the grocery store. I buy all
Speaker 2: my groceries. I put my credit card in the pocket
Speaker 2: of my giant puffer coat and not where I normally
Speaker 2: put it because my hands were full and I'm still
Speaker 2: on the conference call.
Speaker 1: That's a black hole a puffer code pocket, Yeah, get it.
Speaker 1: And it was polar Vortex.
Speaker 2: This was a couple of years ago in Chicago, where
Speaker 2: we had multiple names for how cold it was in
Speaker 2: Chicago Snopra, snowmaged, and polar vortex, et cetera. So I
Speaker 2: go outside, discover the flat tire, don't have triple A anymore.
Speaker 2: Call my husband, of course, he's who I call whenever
Speaker 2: I screw things up. He plugs and he's like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, why are you like thirty blocks south or
Speaker 2: whatever it is. And I'm like, don't ask, just come
Speaker 2: help me. Right, So this meantime snowballing, Yeah, well done.
Speaker 2: So in the meantime, I've tried to go across the
Speaker 2: way to an auto zone or something. Who can't help me,
Speaker 2: which feels strange. It feels like the place that you
Speaker 2: would go if you have an auto problem.
Speaker 1: But no, right next to there is a party City.
Speaker 2: So I'm like, I'll just pop into party City really
Speaker 2: quick and walk around. While I'm waiting for my husband
Speaker 2: to come fix the tire, I see a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 1: I don't buy anything.
Speaker 2: I use the bathroom, I come out, he fixes the tire,
Speaker 2: and on the way home, I say, you'd be very
Speaker 2: proud of me. I did not buy the football shaped
Speaker 2: platter for the upcoming Super Bowl because I know we
Speaker 2: have too much stuff, and he's like, hey, I'm proud
Speaker 2: of You're always buying garbage.
Speaker 3: We don't need fast forward.
Speaker 2: We get near home, I walk down the street to
Speaker 2: get us a sandwich and realize I don't have my
Speaker 2: credit card, but I still have to go do my
Speaker 2: live radio show. So while I am going home to
Speaker 2: get ready, my husband is graciously driving back to the
Speaker 2: party city on the new tire we got to get
Speaker 2: my credit card.
Speaker 3: I go home, I start to prep for my show.
Speaker 2: My dog comes out of a side room looking real weird,
Speaker 2: and then he proceeds to vomit all over the brand
Speaker 2: new carpet I just installed the day before, and it
Speaker 2: was one of those things where he had a different
Speaker 2: kind of accident and then ate it to clean it
Speaker 2: up and then put both into the carpet, if that
Speaker 2: makes any sense with that being too graphic.
Speaker 1: So instead of cleaning it, oh this is bar and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, shit, vomit dookie in the same yep. So I
Speaker 2: just roll up the rug and put it in the alley.
Speaker 2: I don't care that I bought it the day before.
Speaker 2: I'm not cleaning it. This is the worst day ever.
Speaker 2: I literally just throw it in the alley.
Speaker 1: Did the right thing. You did the right thing.
Speaker 2: I go upstairs to host my show, and during a
Speaker 2: commercial break, I get a text from my husband, got
Speaker 2: your card, photo of him holding the credit card, and
Speaker 2: the second photo is him holding a football platter that
Speaker 2: he bought for me to make sure that my day improved.
Speaker 1: Oh fabulous. That is not a snafoo. That is a
Speaker 1: cascading sort of just a blender of snafoos all wrapped
Speaker 1: up into one.
Speaker 2: You will not be surprised to learn that that rug
Speaker 2: was gone by the next day. You could put almost
Speaker 2: anything in an alley in Chicago and someone will give
Speaker 2: it a go.
Speaker 1: Somebody took it put in their house and was like whoa,
Speaker 1: and then put it in their alley and it's basically
Speaker 1: just bouncing around apartments in Chicago. I do feel really
Speaker 1: bad for whoever was like, well, free rug. Yeah, oh
Speaker 1: my god. All right, well, let's get into today's snafoo.
Speaker 1: This week's snafoo takes us back to one of the
Speaker 1: most famous bad ideas in military history. It was bold,
Speaker 1: it was brutal, and spoiler alert, it did not go
Speaker 1: as planned. But before we get into snowstorms and supply
Speaker 1: chains and a very stubborn little general, we've got to
Speaker 1: rewind a bit all the way back to seventeen eighty nine,
Speaker 1: when one country decided enough of this damned monarchy and regime.
Speaker 1: It is time for revolutionione. Can you guess, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: we're talking about I took like seven years of high
Speaker 1: school French or something like some crazy amount for seven years. Wow,
Speaker 1: that explains a lot. I started in junior high. I
Speaker 1: started junior high, then took it, took the French through
Speaker 1: high school, and then I think it did a year
Speaker 1: in college. All I got from it was this accent.
Speaker 1: That's all I could do. It's pretty good. Did you
Speaker 1: start with?
Speaker 2: Because I think that's what everyone started with in junior
Speaker 2: high French was the Tibaut family.
Speaker 1: Oh does any even remember that? That means, oh great,
Speaker 1: the puppet show. The Guinola is like a famous one
Speaker 1: remembers that it's not a German for some reason. That's
Speaker 1: not what you want when you're trying to speak French.
Speaker 1: It's seventeen nineties in France and it was a wild time.
Speaker 1: Guillotines heads rolling all over the place. Sorry not sorry,
Speaker 1: lou the sixteenth and Marie Antoinette. It was a time
Speaker 1: of mass bloodshed and became known as the Reign of Terror.
Speaker 1: Over twenty thousand people were executed for things like being
Speaker 1: anti revolutionary, or religious or just a little too fancy.
Speaker 1: How do you think you do during the Reign of Terror?
Speaker 3: I yes, I've thought about this many times.
Speaker 2: I think I was born in a good time, seeing
Speaker 2: as I am a very outspoken woman who does not
Speaker 2: follow any guidance based on the lanes in which I
Speaker 2: should inhabit or otherwise. So I think it would go
Speaker 2: one of two ways. Either I would die almost immediately
Speaker 2: upon being old enough to speak for myself, and they
Speaker 2: would be like, Nope, she's going to be a problem
Speaker 2: and I would be out. Or because I'm very tall
Speaker 2: and athletic, I would be one of those women who
Speaker 2: who cosplayed as a man in order to both receive
Speaker 2: great goods and wealth and also dominate some sort of
Speaker 2: army or take some sort of leadership position where people
Speaker 2: didn't realize that I was actually a lady.
Speaker 1: I like that version, but I don't think you would
Speaker 1: need to even pretend to be a man like I
Speaker 1: feel like like Joan of arc was this was like
Speaker 1: of this kind of ilk and oh, I feel like
Speaker 1: the French get powerful.
Speaker 2: Women, powerful women. Yeah, maybe I could just be one
Speaker 2: for the history books.
Speaker 1: Eventually, the chaos of late seventeen hundreds of France hit
Speaker 1: a wall when Maximilian Robespierre, head revolutionary and chief vibe killer,
Speaker 1: was executed in seventeen ninety four. The next year, France
Speaker 1: handed the keys to the kingdom to a five person
Speaker 1: governing body called the Directory. It honestly sounds less like
Speaker 1: a governing body and more like some horrific database in
Speaker 1: which Mark Zuckerberg has collected all of our thoughts so
Speaker 1: that he can finally control the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or potentially like a Soho house type spot in
Speaker 2: New York that you have to pay a real big
Speaker 2: sum of money to join, where you both learn your
Speaker 2: advanced biometrics and what age you'll die and also get
Speaker 2: to smoke cigars in.
Speaker 3: A room that no one else is allowed in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that, and but also it's secretly a cult.
Speaker 1: Have you joined the Directory?
Speaker 3: Part of the Directory?
Speaker 1: Are the Directory?
Speaker 3: Or it sounds like Handmate's tale?
Speaker 1: Yeah, surprise, surprise. The Directory was a total mess, corruption, instability,
Speaker 1: NonStop drums and eventually hold on ed.
Speaker 2: What you're trying to tell me is they made a
Speaker 2: bunch of men share responsibility for power and it didn't
Speaker 2: work out. They couldn't all just get along and you know,
Speaker 2: best idea wins.
Speaker 1: Believe it or not. I mean, this is like the
Speaker 1: one time a bunch of dudes like didn't get it right.
Speaker 2: How do you say, penis measuring contest in French?
Speaker 1: Do you know? Corruption? Instability? NonStop drums And eventually the
Speaker 1: French public started craving some real leadership again. And that's
Speaker 1: when a famously short, strategic, and wildly ambitious military man
Speaker 1: entered the picture. And he guess who we're talking about?
Speaker 1: Napoleon Bonaparte? Bonaparte, Napoleon. Why is it so fun to
Speaker 1: do that accent? I hope it's not too offensive. It's
Speaker 1: only an offensive. It's if it's a bad accent. I
Speaker 1: have a very good accent. Right.
Speaker 2: We're also running out of accents we can make fun
Speaker 2: of without it being a problem, So I think we
Speaker 2: got to hang on to make in fun of the French.
Speaker 1: It's kind of sad that to a lot of Americans,
Speaker 1: French people are basically the chef in Little Mermaid. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: which is preposterous. Like can you.
Speaker 2: Still sing any of that song? And do you have
Speaker 2: the rights to sing it on this podcast?
Speaker 1: Sacrab What is this?
Speaker 3: So on earth? Could I miss such.
Speaker 1: A such a sweet The most amazing thing about that
Speaker 1: song is that they rhyme poisson with pant he goes
Speaker 1: he he, that's the most French thing. Ever, that's a rhyme.
Speaker 1: That's part of the lyrics.
Speaker 3: Is I love that our brains will forever hang on
Speaker 3: to that.
Speaker 2: There's so many more useful things that should be lodged
Speaker 2: up in there, but I will forever remember all the
Speaker 2: lyrics to that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a couple of little kids, so it's
Speaker 1: like still hitting me in the face constantly. So we're
Speaker 1: talking about Napoleon Bonaparte. Born a commoner on the French
Speaker 1: island of Corsica, Napoleon rose through the military ranks and
Speaker 1: after saving the Directory's asses from a royalist insurrection, he
Speaker 1: earned himself a cushy promotion to major general. But this
Speaker 1: is France, right, so naturally there's another coup, and in
Speaker 1: seventeen ninety nine Napoleon overthrew the directory and put himself
Speaker 1: in charge, introducing first Consul Napoleon Bonapaut.
Speaker 3: Do you think it's a sign that France.
Speaker 2: Has really nailed the coups because.
Speaker 1: We haven't found our own word.
Speaker 3: We just took theirs, because coup is a.
Speaker 2: French word, right, and we were like, wow, they did
Speaker 2: it so well, we don't need our own word for it.
Speaker 1: I think they just had so many of them that
Speaker 1: the word was used so constantly and exactly it's their brand.
Speaker 1: It's like the French brand to have comment overthrow.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, once Napoleon took charge, he basically Marie condoed France,
Speaker 1: cleaned house, reorganized everything. You know, if it didn't spark joy,
Speaker 1: it was out of there. Brought some much needed structure
Speaker 1: to the post revolution chaos. He revamped education, tried to
Speaker 1: set up a meritocracy, and made the country feel like
Speaker 1: it was finally in grown up hands. And he was
Speaker 1: also out there crushing it on the battlefield. He was
Speaker 1: winning wars all over Europe. Of course, all this victory
Speaker 1: was going straight to his head. His ego was getting
Speaker 1: bigger than a French aristocrat's wig. Come on, solid joke.
Speaker 3: It's pretty good. Are you making fun of him at
Speaker 3: different turns?
Speaker 2: When you said he rose, which would be tough for
Speaker 2: him because even when standing up it looked like he
Speaker 2: was sitting and in big hands, but probably quite small
Speaker 2: because he was.
Speaker 1: Known for being a tony man delivered jokes. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: believe it or not. Yeah, So basically what's happening here
Speaker 1: is that he is just like running rough shot all
Speaker 1: over Europe. The napoleonic wars are going on, and he's
Speaker 1: just kicking ass and he's winning, and he's like getting
Speaker 1: this bigger and bigger ego, and of course that in
Speaker 1: classic snap foop form would wind up badly compromising his judgment.
Speaker 1: Where's the line between confidence and full blown delusion? Have
Speaker 1: you seen ego backfire like in the sports world, Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 2: True confidence actually usually manifests in someone who is much
Speaker 2: more laid back and wants to uplift others and put
Speaker 2: them in positions of power and empower them to be
Speaker 2: a part of decision making. Narcissistic insecurity is usually the
Speaker 2: kind of ego power trip that results in a dictatorial leader,
Speaker 2: a boss who's an a hole, or a player who
Speaker 2: is you know, too diva like in their tendencies and
Speaker 2: doesn't know how to incorporate the rest of their teammates.
Speaker 2: I think famously Michael Jordan was one who I don't
Speaker 2: know if it was ego so much as it was
Speaker 2: just an understanding of his own super heroic powers. But
Speaker 2: he had to be convinced to embrace an offense that
Speaker 2: would bring in his teammates, understanding that he was still
Speaker 2: going to be the main target. But in order for
Speaker 2: him to get the ball and shoot it, they needed
Speaker 2: to make everybody else be a threat as well. And
Speaker 2: so that flip from perhaps a little bit too egocentric
Speaker 2: to team player was really what opened up his greatness.
Speaker 2: So I think you can usually tell when somebody is
Speaker 2: a real leader.
Speaker 1: I think that's the phrase.
Speaker 2: Leaders don't create followers, Followers make leaders.
Speaker 1: Oh I like that. All right, let's get back to
Speaker 1: mister Napoleon. He was getting a little too big for
Speaker 1: his cute little white britches, and he started he did
Speaker 1: it again. Yeah, that one was deliberate, you're right, okay,
Speaker 1: and he started forcing France's allies into a strict economic
Speaker 1: boycott of Great Britain. Most went along with this, but
Speaker 1: there was one holdout, one stick in the mud, and
Speaker 1: that was Russia. Napoleon did not think that that was
Speaker 1: very bomp. So guess what he did. What do you
Speaker 1: do when another country pisses you off? Tariffs? Good answer,
Speaker 1: you're not correct. You just invade you're pissed off in
Speaker 1: another country, you invade them. It's June eighteen twelve, and
Speaker 1: Napoleon is really feeling himself a big time. He's giving
Speaker 1: major I alone can fix this vibes. And he's got
Speaker 1: the largest army Europe has ever seen, six hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty thousand troops. And that's not even counting all the
Speaker 1: mimes who are just pretending to be troops.
Speaker 2: Come on, and all the bakers that made the baguettes
Speaker 2: for the troops every morning. Yeah, we're courced into battle
Speaker 2: with begets a sore. It's when things went awry.
Speaker 1: A stale bagette is a that is a weapon for sure,
Speaker 1: hard as hell. Yeah, you can't break it tooth, you
Speaker 1: can't eat it. You're going to use it on the
Speaker 1: battlefield for sure.
Speaker 2: Can I ask you an honest question, ed, how many
Speaker 2: guests do you have on this podcast who are listening
Speaker 2: along and you could tell by their face that they
Speaker 2: recognize all the dates and names you're saying, and then
Speaker 2: suddenly realized they retained nothing from school. And while they've
Speaker 2: heard of Robes Pierre and they believe eighteen twelve to
Speaker 2: be a pretty big year.
Speaker 3: For some stuff.
Speaker 2: Couple, if you made them take a quiz right now,
Speaker 2: they'd be like, not entirely sure what happened. Honestly, Marie
Speaker 2: Antoinette definitely got her head cut off.
Speaker 1: I remember that. It doesn't it doesn't matter, like we're
Speaker 1: that's what I'm here for. We're just hanging out, enjoying
Speaker 1: it together. And some of these things, like you know,
Speaker 1: I dip into them as like new research projects from
Speaker 1: like episode to episode. But I don't retain stuff either.
Speaker 2: No, I was gonna say, if we learned one thing
Speaker 2: from history, it's that we don't remember history.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So with all this military might, Napoleon's like, it's
Speaker 1: time to teach Russia a lesson. He's fully convinced they're
Speaker 1: a total mess. They're disorganized, underprepared, and just not at
Speaker 1: all at his level. And he even claims publicly that
Speaker 1: this whole thing will be wrapped up in twenty days,
Speaker 1: which spoiler alert, might be the mother of all jinxes.
Speaker 1: I'm curious. You're an athlete, you cover sports, Like, do
Speaker 1: you believe in superstitions and jinxes? Streaks, hot streaks, all
Speaker 1: that kind of thing.
Speaker 2: I don't believe in superstitions, Like, oh, if you sat
Speaker 2: on the couch in this one specific spot wearing this
Speaker 2: one specific shirt in your team one, if you change
Speaker 2: that up, they're going to lose. I think the average
Speaker 2: fan has absolutely no import on the outcome. But there's
Speaker 2: a guy named Ben Cohen who wrote a book called
Speaker 2: The Hot Hand, and he actually dove into the concept
Speaker 2: of whether an athlete is essentially better in the middle
Speaker 2: of having like the hot hand and the NBA.
Speaker 1: Jam if you will, he's on fire.
Speaker 2: If there's actually such a thing and it's a really
Speaker 2: complicated and fascinating look at, like the parts that feel
Speaker 2: like it's a very clear thing, you're almost in flow state, sure,
Speaker 2: which most creative types understand, versus whether it's simply about
Speaker 2: confidence mixed with a trained body.
Speaker 3: Right, if you have enough messile memory to remember.
Speaker 2: The thing you're supposed to be doing, and you can
Speaker 2: get so in the flow state and so confident that
Speaker 2: you're not overthinking anything, you just naturally do the thing
Speaker 2: successfully over and over again, which then becomes like you're
Speaker 2: on fire or you're in the zone. So I believe
Speaker 2: in it for the athlete. I do not believe in
Speaker 2: it for the fan.
Speaker 1: I still feel like if I wear the wrong color socks,
Speaker 1: the Dodgers will lose, so well.
Speaker 3: Keep wearing them then, because I'm a Cubs fan.
Speaker 1: French troops moved into Russia. Russian general has deployed a
Speaker 1: very interesting strategy. Instead of standing their ground, they just
Speaker 1: kept retreating again and again, letting Napoleon's troop chase them
Speaker 1: deeper and deeper into Russian territory. Why would they do this?
Speaker 1: This seems insane, right, Well, it was actually quite savvy
Speaker 1: because the French were burning through their supplies, getting farther
Speaker 1: and farther from their reinforcements, and despite the crushing heat
Speaker 1: and endless mud and tons of disease ravaging all the troops,
Speaker 1: they kept marching like they took the bait. They just
Speaker 1: kept going straight into Russia. Cue the dramatic music. Because
Speaker 1: this was all a trap. The Russian army was employing
Speaker 1: what is known as a scorched earth strategy, meaning they
Speaker 1: would burn down their own towns and torch all of
Speaker 1: their own supplies as they retreated, basically saying, if we
Speaker 1: began to have it to neither can you? Oh no way,
Speaker 1: they're Russian. I can't do a Russian accent. It's very smart.
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I mean it's terrible, but it's brutal
Speaker 1: but shrewd. So this scorched earth policy basically meant that
Speaker 1: Napoleon's army couldn't live off local food stores and supplies,
Speaker 1: which would be the typical practice of invading army.
Speaker 3: And be stroganoffs and such.
Speaker 1: Of course, and they really couldn't do anything except keep marching,
Speaker 1: exhausted and starving deeper and deeper into what was quickly
Speaker 1: becoming a hellscape. Now you've been around a lot of competition.
Speaker 1: What's more valuable brute strength or sound strategy? How do
Speaker 1: you find that balance?
Speaker 2: Well, Actually, something I learned in laser tag is you
Speaker 2: have to have the upper ground. The most important thing
Speaker 2: out of the three is you have to have the
Speaker 2: upper ground so that you could see down upon your enemy,
Speaker 2: and your strategy improves because you're able to see them
Speaker 2: and often they can't see you.
Speaker 1: Okay, laser tag, In laser.
Speaker 2: Tag or in life, once you've established the higher ground.
Speaker 2: I am way more into strategy than brute strength. I
Speaker 2: believe there's a time and place like a bar fight
Speaker 2: where brute strength will likely win, and everywhere else where
Speaker 2: strategicy is involved.
Speaker 3: I think it's more about the brain. Yeah, brains over brawn.
Speaker 1: I think you're right. And I say that because I'm
Speaker 1: a weakling and I like to think I could persevere
Speaker 1: in a tough situation Now, despite numerous what we can
Speaker 1: only imagine to be stern warnings from many of his
Speaker 1: top advisers about turning around, Napoleon was convinced that he
Speaker 1: could lead the French army to victory in Moscow. He
Speaker 1: was all in on chasing this glory. At one point
Speaker 1: he nearly caught the Russians at the city of Smolensk,
Speaker 1: but instead of pressing his advantage, he paused the march
Speaker 1: on what happened to be his forty third birthday. Because
Speaker 1: nothing says military genius like taking a personal day during
Speaker 1: a war. I would presume Champagne was involved, though, right,
Speaker 1: I guess right. I mean, it is weird how well
Speaker 1: the officers lived right in these on these like like
Speaker 1: they had like these incredible tents with furniture and butlers
Speaker 1: and servants and all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 2: There's a famous Napoleon Champagne quote in victory you deserve it,
Speaker 2: and loss you need it.
Speaker 1: Oh interesting, So it's kind of like just always have
Speaker 1: it on hand, there you go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe you might have been the originator of
Speaker 2: the sabering.
Speaker 1: Oh that would be saying, you know, a Champagne saber.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I've done it. Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2: I think it's tied back to Napoleon and his thoughts
Speaker 2: on Champagne.
Speaker 3: Don't quote me on that, but that's something I've been to.
Speaker 1: I like that. The only downside of this birthday party
Speaker 1: is that the party favors were lice and typhus, which
Speaker 1: is a horrible disease spread by lice. Oh oh no, oh. Yeah.
Speaker 1: This army was really really bit draggled at this point,
Speaker 1: so we're settling into a cycle here, chase, scorch repeat.
Speaker 1: But there was one proper showdown, and that was on
Speaker 1: September seventh, eighteen twelve, at the Battle of Borodino. It
Speaker 1: was brutal. Both sides took massive casualties, but the Russians
Speaker 1: had the edge. They were closer to home and could
Speaker 1: rebuild faster. Napoleon's army not so much. This raises a
Speaker 1: good question home field advantage. Is it always an advantage
Speaker 1: or is it sometimes a liability.
Speaker 3: I would say it's always an advantage.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think it's always going to tip the scales,
Speaker 2: but I would say it's arguably almost never a disadvantage.
Speaker 2: Although I can think of a couple places where the
Speaker 2: ownership was so hated that being at home and still
Speaker 2: being showered with booze and rage over the decision making
Speaker 2: of your front office, GM, president, etc. Might be more
Speaker 2: frustrating than just being on the road and accepting that
Speaker 2: the opposing team's fans will hate you. But I think
Speaker 2: for the most part, knowing you came from your house
Speaker 2: and you're going back to it, you know, the lay
Speaker 2: of the land, all that stuff, maybe you get some
Speaker 2: hometown whistles because the fans are subconsciously affecting the officiating.
Speaker 3: Usually a good thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I would think that that just roar of
Speaker 1: a hometown crowd is going to give you so much adrenaline.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I could see how like
Speaker 1: going into the sort of den of the enemy could
Speaker 1: also be like kind of like rage inducing in a
Speaker 1: powerful way and in a maybe an inspiring way. Napoleon
Speaker 1: finally made it to Moscow on September fourteenth. Victory, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the capital city of Russia. He took
Speaker 1: the capital that's got that should be it like game over.
Speaker 1: Not quite. Napoleon believed capturing Moscow would force Czar Alexander
Speaker 1: to seek peace, as had occurred with all of the
Speaker 1: other European capitals he had invaded. However, he massively underestimated
Speaker 1: the Russians resolve and their flare for strategic nihilism. When
Speaker 1: Napoleon's battered troops entered the city, it was a smoldering husk.
Speaker 1: Russian forces had completely torched it their own capital city.
Speaker 1: On the way out, civilians had fled. Supplies were nearly
Speaker 1: non existent, no food, no shelter, and not even any
Speaker 1: officials to negotiate with. And to top it off, the
Speaker 1: legendary Russian winter was fast approaching.
Speaker 2: Oh, this is like when you played the Packers in December. Yes,
Speaker 2: you just you know, if you know that you've got
Speaker 2: an extra man on your side and it's the hail
Speaker 2: and sleet and you're the Packers and conditions at Lambeau. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 2: invited the Chicago Bears over and then just left him there.
Speaker 1: They got old man Winter on their side. Yeah, exactly. Oh, man,
Speaker 1: that's a great way to think about it. Things are dire,
Speaker 1: but Napoleon is still convinced he just won the war,
Speaker 1: so he sends Czar Alexander a letter politely requesting his surrender. Now,
Speaker 1: to be fair, eighteenth century military etiquette did allow for
Speaker 1: this kind of thing. But after five freezing, miserable weeks
Speaker 1: with no response, it became clear Napoleon was just being
Speaker 1: ghosted like hard and the worst part, he had absolutely
Speaker 1: no leverage left this. He's like, I took your capital,
Speaker 1: I won, and the Russians were just like, sh don't
Speaker 1: pay him any attention. He'll leave, And they're right. That
Speaker 1: is incredible.
Speaker 2: You would never imagine that the goal would be to
Speaker 2: trash your own place and just retreat, retreat, retreat.
Speaker 3: Run away, run away, as.
Speaker 2: They said Monty Python, and then it would work because
Speaker 2: you don't even consider the fact that the opposing side
Speaker 2: doesn't have any backups.
Speaker 1: It's weirdly nihilistic to torch your own city, but they
Speaker 1: saved their city by doing that. Weirdly, of course, they
Speaker 1: had to rebuild, but they it was still theirs. Because finally,
Speaker 1: with no food, no shelter, and by the way, fresh
Speaker 1: whispers of yet another coup brewing back home, Napoleon had
Speaker 1: no choice. In mid October, with the first snow starting
Speaker 1: to fall, he ordered the retreat.
Speaker 2: Wow, great timing, having gained nothing nothing, having one nothing
Speaker 2: gained nothing other than I guess a big chunk of
Speaker 2: Russia is now ash right, they did achieve burning down
Speaker 2: a significant number of cities and towns and a big,
Speaker 2: a big city center in Moscow.
Speaker 1: But they weren't able to claim didn't claim anything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was it was a total loss. And as we'll
Speaker 1: soon do you think you.
Speaker 2: Went back and said it was a complete and total obliteration.
Speaker 2: And then his his people were like, I don't know the.
Speaker 1: Journalists of the well we cover Yeah, we had some
Speaker 1: reporters there. Story, my friend. So what was left of
Speaker 1: the French army, which they lost so many people. We'll
Speaker 1: get to the numbers shortly. But what was left of
Speaker 1: the army limped away towards the border and finally made
Speaker 1: it out of Russia in late December of eighteen twelve.
Speaker 1: But at this point Napoleon wasn't even with them. He
Speaker 1: had actually abandoned his troops to rush back to Paris
Speaker 1: on December fifth, not because he left the oven on,
Speaker 1: but because those coup rumors were really heating up. Now
Speaker 1: there was actually a coup brewing, and it was quashed
Speaker 1: pretty quickly. Still, what kind of coach leaves his players
Speaker 1: in the dust like that.
Speaker 2: There's an NFL player who retired at halftime.
Speaker 3: No, it was not an important game.
Speaker 1: It was just a regular season game.
Speaker 2: But at halftime he was like, yep, think that's about
Speaker 2: it for me. What Vonte Davis, Vonte Davis.
Speaker 1: That's intense. Well, this was, needless to say, a brutal escapade.
Speaker 1: Let's review the numbers here. Napoleon had marched into Russia
Speaker 1: with over six hundred thousand troops fewer than one hundred thousand.
Speaker 1: Made it out not good, not a good look, and
Speaker 1: after this the dominoes started to fall pretty fast. Napoleon's
Speaker 1: aura of invincibility was shattered and his enemies pounced. By
Speaker 1: eight fourteen, a coalition of major European powers, including Austria, Prussia, Russia,
Speaker 1: Britain and others, defeated him and sent him into exile
Speaker 1: on the island of Elba, which is kind of a
Speaker 1: beautiful island in the Mediterranean, so sounds nice. Yeah, But
Speaker 1: Napoleon wasn't done yet. Less than a year later, he
Speaker 1: pulled the ultimate surprise bitch and escaped for a brief,
Speaker 1: chaotic comeback known as the one Hundred Days. This ended
Speaker 1: at the famous Battle of Waterloo, where he was trounced
Speaker 1: again and sent packing again, this time to Saint Helena,
Speaker 1: which is an extremely remote island way off in the
Speaker 1: South Atlantic. They learned their lesson, like, we're not gonna
Speaker 1: put him in just like a nice fancy place. Were
Speaker 1: sent him way the hell away. Meanwhile, the rest of Europe,
Speaker 1: traumatized by Napoleon's entire vibe, held the Congress of Vienna
Speaker 1: to redraw the map, restore monarchies, and basically agree let's
Speaker 1: never do that again. Napoleon then died in exile in
Speaker 1: eighteen twenty one, presumably still wearing that awesome hat, and
Speaker 1: Europe found a balance. Napoleon's dead. Wow, yeah, oh yeah, No,
Speaker 1: he's dead. He didn't make it. He died.
Speaker 3: Should put that at the beginning of the episode.
Speaker 1: He was still a young man.
Speaker 3: We haven't watched history yet.
Speaker 1: I think he was in his fifties. He was like
Speaker 1: fifty one or something. Yeah. Evidently when he went to
Speaker 1: Saint Helena, his health declined pretty rapidly, in part because
Speaker 1: it's thought he was such this grand personality and now
Speaker 1: he was just confined to this remote place with very
Speaker 1: little going on, and he became depressed and reclusive and
Speaker 1: his health declined.
Speaker 2: Kind of a broken heart Wow. Yes, so I would
Speaker 2: have guessed gout. Yeah, to be honest, I would have
Speaker 2: guessed gout.
Speaker 1: But he died of champagne poisoning. What a shame. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Do you know how you get gout? It's literally too
Speaker 2: much alcohol and rich foods.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I have a friend who got it in college from
Speaker 2: being a sorority sister.
Speaker 1: Yikes. But it's also a genetic thing, like you have
Speaker 1: a genetic predisposition for gout.
Speaker 2: Sure, but we'll never stop making fun of her forgetting
Speaker 2: the gout in college.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you know Judah Friedlander, the comedian. He's so amazing.
Speaker 1: I've known him from way back doing stand up in
Speaker 1: New York, like in the nineties, and I remember he
Speaker 1: got out and he talked about it on stage. You
Speaker 1: talk about how it's like your toe becomes like a
Speaker 1: Fred Flintstone toe. It looks like you, it looks like
Speaker 1: you dropped a rock on your toe in a Flintstones cartoon.
Speaker 1: And it's now like wah wah, like a red bull pulsating.
Speaker 1: Like that's how badly it hurts. Yeah. Anyway, so Europe
Speaker 1: found a balance of power that was actually pretty rock
Speaker 1: steady until a certain World war broke out in nineteen fourteen.
Speaker 1: But that is a story for another snapoo day, and
Speaker 1: that Sarah Spain, that is our snapfhoo for today. What
Speaker 1: did you learn any takeaways from Napoleon's disasters and of Russia?
Speaker 2: I mean, one of the things I learned was that
Speaker 2: there was more strategy even in the days of that
Speaker 2: kind of town torching battle.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm impressed by.
Speaker 2: The Russians, which feels like a strange thing to say
Speaker 2: right now, but truly good plan, well executed.
Speaker 1: Yeah about a five stars Russia. Yeah, And if there's
Speaker 1: any lesson for Napoleon here, it's like, I mean, I
Speaker 1: feel like Kenny Rodgers said it best right. You got
Speaker 1: to know when to hold them, no, when to fold them, no,
Speaker 1: whe to walk away, no, when to run. He should
Speaker 1: have he should have just thrown in the towel there,
Speaker 1: and I completely agree. Unfortunately, this is a vibe we
Speaker 1: still see a lot of today leaders doubling down instead
Speaker 1: of backing off, mistaking stubbornness for strength. We have tech
Speaker 1: CEOs telling us that AI is going to save us. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: it's really starting to feel like the fast tract of
Speaker 1: full on dystopia.
Speaker 2: I think the thing we started with at the beginning
Speaker 2: the directory. The idea of co leading is something that
Speaker 2: should be getting a lot more attention in many spaces
Speaker 2: of late, because it prevents that one egotistical, dictatorial person
Speaker 2: who will not stop themselves from being checked. And I
Speaker 2: think in a lot of business and corporate spaces there
Speaker 2: is a push for the kind of leadership that co
Speaker 2: leadership would embrace. Which is best idea wins bring everyone together,
Speaker 2: utilize the strengths of all the different people, elevate the
Speaker 2: people beneath you, empower them to make great decisions and
Speaker 2: do things instead of the sort of.
Speaker 1: Micromanaging of one person.
Speaker 2: Who needs to double check everything and sign off on everything,
Speaker 2: which is a complete waste of time, completely ineffective, and
Speaker 2: empowers one person to believe that the reason for all
Speaker 2: the success, And that's how you end up like Napoleon,
Speaker 2: where you've now convinced yourself you're so great that every
Speaker 2: decision you're making must be the right one. Every decision
Speaker 2: you make going forward must be followed. But no matter
Speaker 2: whether someone is telling you, hey, maybe there's a reason
Speaker 2: all these towns are already.
Speaker 3: Torched by the time we get to them.
Speaker 1: Exactly you think they've got a plan. Amen, very well,
Speaker 1: said Sarah Spain. You just put a book out. Congratulations,
Speaker 1: in addition to your amazing podcast All about Sports, tell
Speaker 1: us about Good Game first.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Good Game with Sarah Spain is the first
Speaker 2: and only, as far as we know, daily women's sports podcast.
Speaker 1: Yes, daily.
Speaker 2: It is a lot of work, but it is what
Speaker 2: was necessary. The folks who started the iHeart Women's Sports
Speaker 2: Network reached out and one of them was Sue Bird.
Speaker 2: And you can't say no to Sup Bird about really anything,
Speaker 2: because she's a legend. But when she said, we want
Speaker 2: you to do a show for the network, what would
Speaker 2: it look like? And I had just gotten out of
Speaker 2: thirteen straight years of daily radio for ESPN. I was
Speaker 2: enjoying my first year of not having a show every day,
Speaker 2: and I stupidly said, it's.
Speaker 3: Got to be a daily show because that's what's miss Ailey.
Speaker 2: Because in women's sports, you really you just need the
Speaker 2: same cadence of learning about the star stak stats and
Speaker 2: stories that are out there so that you get excited
Speaker 2: about the games and want to watch them and attend
Speaker 2: them and buy the merchant. So we're offering that to people,
Speaker 2: and people seem to love it, which is great.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. So you have a book. You just put
Speaker 1: a book out called Runs in the Family, an incredible
Speaker 1: true story of football, fatherhood and belonging. Give me the
Speaker 1: quick like breakdown.
Speaker 2: Well, I wanted to be like you, So I wrote
Speaker 2: it all in the two weeks between when your book
Speaker 2: came out and mine came out.
Speaker 3: Can you believe it so fast?
Speaker 2: No? So I wrote a story for ESPN and did
Speaker 2: a feature for ESPN a handful of years ago about
Speaker 2: this guy, Dylan McCullough. He's the running backs coach for
Speaker 2: the Las Vegas Raiders and grew up in Youngstown post
Speaker 2: steel milk collapse, was adopted, never knew his birth family.
Speaker 2: His adoptive dad leaves when he's two, so sort of
Speaker 2: a troubled relationship with father, figures, gets into football, gets recruited,
Speaker 2: has a great career until he gets knee injury and
Speaker 2: becomes a coach, and finally, in his forties, the lost
Speaker 2: change in Pennsylvania, where he was born, he can get
Speaker 2: his birth certificate, and he discovers after finding his mom,
Speaker 2: who never told the dad that she had gotten pregnant,
Speaker 2: was sent.
Speaker 3: Away to have the baby in private.
Speaker 2: Like they used to do in the seventies, finds out
Speaker 2: that his college football coach and mentor of almost thirty
Speaker 2: years was his birth dad all along and neither of
Speaker 2: them knew it.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: So it's this really unbelievable story.
Speaker 2: But also there's a ton in there about nature versus nurture,
Speaker 2: what we inherit through blood and DNA, what we inherit
Speaker 2: through family systems, emotional DNA messages, lessons, all the things.
Speaker 2: And so I really wanted to be a book about
Speaker 2: him because his story is so incredible, but also a
Speaker 2: book that anyone would read and think to themselves, like,
Speaker 2: what are the refutable things that I've been passed on
Speaker 2: that I can't reject or deny? And what are the
Speaker 2: things I get to choose to hang on to or
Speaker 2: pass on.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to read this. It really really sounds
Speaker 1: insanely inspiring and caract right. Thank you, Nail. It's hard. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Oh that's awesome. Thank you so much for coming on, Snaffoo.
Speaker 1: It has been an absolute pleasure.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: It was really fun.
Speaker 2: I actually do feel like I was in history class,
Speaker 2: but with more cool Internet terms of phrase.
Speaker 1: Snappho is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Snapfoo Media,
Speaker 1: a partnership between Film Nation Entertainment and Pacific Electric Picture Company.
Speaker 1: Our post production studio is Gilded Audio. Our executive producers
Speaker 1: are me Ed Helms, Mike Falbo, Glenn Basner, Andy Kim Whitney, Donaldson,
Speaker 1: and Dylan Fagan. This episode was produced by Alyssa Martino
Speaker 1: and Tory Smith. Our video editor is Jared Smith. Technical
Speaker 1: direction and engineering from Nick Dooley. Our creative executive is
Speaker 1: Brett Harris. Logo and branding by The Collected Works. Legal
Speaker 1: review from Dan Welsh, Meghan Halson and Caroline Johnson. Special
Speaker 1: thanks to Isaac Dunham, Adam Horn, Lane Klein and everyone
Speaker 1: at iHeart Podcasts, but especially Will Pearson, Kerry Lieberman, Nikki Etor,
Speaker 1: Nathan Otowski and Alex Corral. While I have you, don't
Speaker 1: forget to pick up a copy of my book, Snaffoo,
Speaker 1: The Definitive Guide to History's Greatest screw Ups. It's available
Speaker 1: now from any book retailer. Just go to Snaffoo dashbook
Speaker 1: dot com. Thanks for listening and see you next week.