WEBVTT - S4E14: Sarah Spain and Napoleon's Russian Blunder

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<v Speaker 1>Hold on, ed.

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<v Speaker 2>What you're trying to tell me is they made a

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of men share responsibility for power and it didn't

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<v Speaker 2>work out. They couldn't all just get along. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>best idea wins.

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<v Speaker 1>Believe it or not. I mean, this is like the

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<v Speaker 1>one time a bunch of dudes like didn't get it right.

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<v Speaker 2>How do you say penis measuring contest in French? Do

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<v Speaker 2>you know?

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<v Speaker 1>Contest? Welcome to Snaffo, the Show about History's greatest screw ups.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm at Helms and today I am joined by the

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<v Speaker 1>Emmy and Peabody Award winning journalist, host of the iHeart podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>Good Game, all around sports fanatic. And also she's someone

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<v Speaker 1>who I recently met and just happened to adore. It

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<v Speaker 1>is the one and only Sarah Spain.

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks so much for having me and saying that that's

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<v Speaker 3>so nice.

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<v Speaker 1>Well right on, we hit it off. Yeah, we we

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<v Speaker 1>were both in Austin at south By Southwest for some

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<v Speaker 1>iHeart podcast fun and yeah, it was just fun to connect.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you have a good time down there?

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<v Speaker 3>I did.

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<v Speaker 2>That was actually my first time at south By Southwest.

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<v Speaker 2>And I know that the iHeart treatment is not what

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<v Speaker 2>everyone gets because we were in that beautiful hotel and

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<v Speaker 2>never really had to leave.

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<v Speaker 1>I just got to roll.

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<v Speaker 2>Out of bed, walk out into this beautiful yard, and

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<v Speaker 2>go to different parties for awesome people in their podcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>I know sometimes people have to actually go to I

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<v Speaker 2>think conference rooms and meeting areas and things like that.

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<v Speaker 2>We just got to hang out with cool people like you.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I loved it at the Hotel Saint Cecilia,

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<v Speaker 1>which is, oh, what a gorgeous spot. So, Sarah, I

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<v Speaker 1>asked this, of all my guests on snapho, what is

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<v Speaker 1>this snaffhoo from your life? A personal snaphoo of some sort?

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<v Speaker 2>I will I will try to tell this story type

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<v Speaker 2>because it has many twists and turns, but I think

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<v Speaker 2>the payoff is worth it.

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<v Speaker 3>So let's just say I have terrible sets of direction.

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<v Speaker 2>And I am also a multitasker, which puts me in

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<v Speaker 2>the position where I'm leaving a physical therapy appointment that

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<v Speaker 2>is only about fifteen minutes away from my home. I

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<v Speaker 2>am trying to be on a conference call while driving

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<v Speaker 2>while plugging into my GPS. The closest Mariano's grocery store

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<v Speaker 2>here in Chicago. I see one that pops up and

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<v Speaker 2>it says Ashland. I'm like, yep, that's the one near me.

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<v Speaker 1>I hit go.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm still taking the conference call. I start driving.

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<v Speaker 2>I realize I've selected one that is not the one

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<v Speaker 2>that's near me. But since I'm driving and I don't

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<v Speaker 2>really have hands to plug it in again, I'm like, whatever,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll just go to this when it can't be that far.

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<v Speaker 2>It's pretty far. The problem is that on the way there,

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<v Speaker 2>I acquire a flat tire. So I don't know this yet,

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<v Speaker 2>but I go into the grocery store. I buy all

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<v Speaker 2>my groceries. I put my credit card in the pocket

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<v Speaker 2>of my giant puffer coat and not where I normally

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<v Speaker 2>put it because my hands were full and I'm still

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<v Speaker 2>on the conference call.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a black hole a puffer code pocket, Yeah, get it.

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<v Speaker 1>And it was polar Vortex.

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<v Speaker 2>This was a couple of years ago in Chicago, where

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<v Speaker 2>we had multiple names for how cold it was in

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<v Speaker 2>Chicago Snopra, snowmaged, and polar vortex, et cetera. So I

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<v Speaker 2>go outside, discover the flat tire, don't have triple A anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>Call my husband, of course, he's who I call whenever

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<v Speaker 2>I screw things up. He plugs and he's like, oh

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<v Speaker 2>my god, why are you like thirty blocks south or

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<v Speaker 2>whatever it is. And I'm like, don't ask, just come

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<v Speaker 2>help me. Right, So this meantime snowballing, Yeah, well done.

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<v Speaker 2>So in the meantime, I've tried to go across the

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<v Speaker 2>way to an auto zone or something. Who can't help me,

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<v Speaker 2>which feels strange. It feels like the place that you

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<v Speaker 2>would go if you have an auto problem.

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<v Speaker 1>But no, right next to there is a party City.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm like, I'll just pop into party City really

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<v Speaker 2>quick and walk around. While I'm waiting for my husband

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<v Speaker 2>to come fix the tire, I see a bunch of stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't buy anything.

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<v Speaker 2>I use the bathroom, I come out, he fixes the tire,

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<v Speaker 2>and on the way home, I say, you'd be very

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<v Speaker 2>proud of me. I did not buy the football shaped

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<v Speaker 2>platter for the upcoming Super Bowl because I know we

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<v Speaker 2>have too much stuff, and he's like, hey, I'm proud

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<v Speaker 2>of You're always buying garbage.

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<v Speaker 3>We don't need fast forward.

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<v Speaker 2>We get near home, I walk down the street to

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<v Speaker 2>get us a sandwich and realize I don't have my

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<v Speaker 2>credit card, but I still have to go do my

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<v Speaker 2>live radio show. So while I am going home to

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<v Speaker 2>get ready, my husband is graciously driving back to the

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<v Speaker 2>party city on the new tire we got to get

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<v Speaker 2>my credit card.

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<v Speaker 3>I go home, I start to prep for my show.

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<v Speaker 2>My dog comes out of a side room looking real weird,

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<v Speaker 2>and then he proceeds to vomit all over the brand

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<v Speaker 2>new carpet I just installed the day before, and it

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<v Speaker 2>was one of those things where he had a different

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<v Speaker 2>kind of accident and then ate it to clean it

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<v Speaker 2>up and then put both into the carpet, if that

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<v Speaker 2>makes any sense with that being too graphic.

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<v Speaker 1>So instead of cleaning it, oh this is bar and.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, shit, vomit dookie in the same yep. So I

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<v Speaker 2>just roll up the rug and put it in the alley.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't care that I bought it the day before.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not cleaning it. This is the worst day ever.

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<v Speaker 2>I literally just throw it in the alley.

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<v Speaker 1>Did the right thing. You did the right thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I go upstairs to host my show, and during a

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<v Speaker 2>commercial break, I get a text from my husband, got

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<v Speaker 2>your card, photo of him holding the credit card, and

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<v Speaker 2>the second photo is him holding a football platter that

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<v Speaker 2>he bought for me to make sure that my day improved.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh fabulous. That is not a snafoo. That is a

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<v Speaker 1>cascading sort of just a blender of snafoos all wrapped

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<v Speaker 1>up into one.

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<v Speaker 2>You will not be surprised to learn that that rug

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<v Speaker 2>was gone by the next day. You could put almost

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<v Speaker 2>anything in an alley in Chicago and someone will give

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<v Speaker 2>it a go.

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<v Speaker 1>Somebody took it put in their house and was like whoa,

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<v Speaker 1>and then put it in their alley and it's basically

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<v Speaker 1>just bouncing around apartments in Chicago. I do feel really

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<v Speaker 1>bad for whoever was like, well, free rug. Yeah, oh

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<v Speaker 1>my god. All right, well, let's get into today's snafoo.

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<v Speaker 1>This week's snafoo takes us back to one of the

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<v Speaker 1>most famous bad ideas in military history. It was bold,

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<v Speaker 1>it was brutal, and spoiler alert, it did not go

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<v Speaker 1>as planned. But before we get into snowstorms and supply

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<v Speaker 1>chains and a very stubborn little general, we've got to

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<v Speaker 1>rewind a bit all the way back to seventeen eighty nine,

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<v Speaker 1>when one country decided enough of this damned monarchy and regime.

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<v Speaker 1>It is time for revolutionione. Can you guess, yes, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about I took like seven years of high

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<v Speaker 1>school French or something like some crazy amount for seven years. Wow,

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<v Speaker 1>that explains a lot. I started in junior high. I

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<v Speaker 1>started junior high, then took it, took the French through

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<v Speaker 1>high school, and then I think it did a year

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<v Speaker 1>in college. All I got from it was this accent.

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<v Speaker 1>That's all I could do. It's pretty good. Did you

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<v Speaker 1>start with?

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<v Speaker 2>Because I think that's what everyone started with in junior

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<v Speaker 2>high French was the Tibaut family.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh does any even remember that? That means, oh great,

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<v Speaker 1>the puppet show. The Guinola is like a famous one

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<v Speaker 1>remembers that it's not a German for some reason. That's

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<v Speaker 1>not what you want when you're trying to speak French.

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<v Speaker 1>It's seventeen nineties in France and it was a wild time.

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<v Speaker 1>Guillotines heads rolling all over the place. Sorry not sorry,

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<v Speaker 1>lou the sixteenth and Marie Antoinette. It was a time

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<v Speaker 1>of mass bloodshed and became known as the Reign of Terror.

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<v Speaker 1>Over twenty thousand people were executed for things like being

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<v Speaker 1>anti revolutionary, or religious or just a little too fancy.

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<v Speaker 1>How do you think you do during the Reign of Terror?

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<v Speaker 3>I yes, I've thought about this many times.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I was born in a good time, seeing

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<v Speaker 2>as I am a very outspoken woman who does not

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<v Speaker 2>follow any guidance based on the lanes in which I

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<v Speaker 2>should inhabit or otherwise. So I think it would go

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<v Speaker 2>one of two ways. Either I would die almost immediately

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<v Speaker 2>upon being old enough to speak for myself, and they

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<v Speaker 2>would be like, Nope, she's going to be a problem

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<v Speaker 2>and I would be out. Or because I'm very tall

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<v Speaker 2>and athletic, I would be one of those women who

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<v Speaker 2>who cosplayed as a man in order to both receive

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<v Speaker 2>great goods and wealth and also dominate some sort of

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<v Speaker 2>army or take some sort of leadership position where people

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<v Speaker 2>didn't realize that I was actually a lady.

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<v Speaker 1>I like that version, but I don't think you would

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<v Speaker 1>need to even pretend to be a man like I

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<v Speaker 1>feel like like Joan of arc was this was like

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<v Speaker 1>of this kind of ilk and oh, I feel like

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<v Speaker 1>the French get powerful.

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<v Speaker 2>Women, powerful women. Yeah, maybe I could just be one

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<v Speaker 2>for the history books.

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<v Speaker 1>Eventually, the chaos of late seventeen hundreds of France hit

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<v Speaker 1>a wall when Maximilian Robespierre, head revolutionary and chief vibe killer,

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<v Speaker 1>was executed in seventeen ninety four. The next year, France

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<v Speaker 1>handed the keys to the kingdom to a five person

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<v Speaker 1>governing body called the Directory. It honestly sounds less like

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<v Speaker 1>a governing body and more like some horrific database in

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<v Speaker 1>which Mark Zuckerberg has collected all of our thoughts so

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<v Speaker 1>that he can finally control the world.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, or potentially like a Soho house type spot in

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<v Speaker 2>New York that you have to pay a real big

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<v Speaker 2>sum of money to join, where you both learn your

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<v Speaker 2>advanced biometrics and what age you'll die and also get

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<v Speaker 2>to smoke cigars in.

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<v Speaker 3>A room that no one else is allowed in.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that, and but also it's secretly a cult.

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<v Speaker 1>Have you joined the Directory?

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<v Speaker 3>Part of the Directory?

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<v Speaker 1>Are the Directory?

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<v Speaker 3>Or it sounds like Handmate's tale?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, surprise, surprise. The Directory was a total mess, corruption, instability,

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<v Speaker 1>NonStop drums and eventually hold on ed.

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<v Speaker 2>What you're trying to tell me is they made a

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of men share responsibility for power and it didn't

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<v Speaker 2>work out. They couldn't all just get along and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>best idea wins.

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<v Speaker 1>Believe it or not. I mean, this is like the

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<v Speaker 1>one time a bunch of dudes like didn't get it right.

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<v Speaker 2>How do you say, penis measuring contest in French?

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<v Speaker 1>Do you know? Corruption? Instability? NonStop drums And eventually the

0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:06.360
<v Speaker 1>French public started craving some real leadership again. And that's

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<v Speaker 1>when a famously short, strategic, and wildly ambitious military man

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<v Speaker 1>entered the picture. And he guess who we're talking about?

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<v Speaker 1>Napoleon Bonaparte? Bonaparte, Napoleon. Why is it so fun to

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<v Speaker 1>do that accent? I hope it's not too offensive. It's

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<v Speaker 1>only an offensive. It's if it's a bad accent. I

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<v Speaker 1>have a very good accent. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>We're also running out of accents we can make fun

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<v Speaker 2>of without it being a problem, So I think we

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<v Speaker 2>got to hang on to make in fun of the French.

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<v Speaker 1>It's kind of sad that to a lot of Americans,

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<v Speaker 1>French people are basically the chef in Little Mermaid. Yeah yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>which is preposterous. Like can you.

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<v Speaker 2>Still sing any of that song? And do you have

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<v Speaker 2>the rights to sing it on this podcast?

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<v Speaker 1>Sacrab What is this?

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<v Speaker 3>So on earth? Could I miss such.

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<v Speaker 1>A such a sweet The most amazing thing about that

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<v Speaker 1>song is that they rhyme poisson with pant he goes

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<v Speaker 1>he he, that's the most French thing. Ever, that's a rhyme.

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<v Speaker 1>That's part of the lyrics.

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<v Speaker 3>Is I love that our brains will forever hang on

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<v Speaker 3>to that.

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<v Speaker 2>There's so many more useful things that should be lodged

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<v Speaker 2>up in there, but I will forever remember all the

0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:15.400
<v Speaker 2>lyrics to that.

0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:17.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I have a couple of little kids, so it's

0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.480
<v Speaker 1>like still hitting me in the face constantly. So we're

0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:23.680
<v Speaker 1>talking about Napoleon Bonaparte. Born a commoner on the French

0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:27.199
<v Speaker 1>island of Corsica, Napoleon rose through the military ranks and

0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:31.800
<v Speaker 1>after saving the Directory's asses from a royalist insurrection, he

0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:35.880
<v Speaker 1>earned himself a cushy promotion to major general. But this

0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:39.800
<v Speaker 1>is France, right, so naturally there's another coup, and in

0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:43.559
<v Speaker 1>seventeen ninety nine Napoleon overthrew the directory and put himself

0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:48.800
<v Speaker 1>in charge, introducing first Consul Napoleon Bonapaut.

0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:51.880
<v Speaker 3>Do you think it's a sign that France.

0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.040
<v Speaker 2>Has really nailed the coups because.

0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:55.360
<v Speaker 1>We haven't found our own word.

0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:57.520
<v Speaker 3>We just took theirs, because coup is a.

0:11:57.440 --> 0:11:59.560
<v Speaker 2>French word, right, and we were like, wow, they did

0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:01.600
<v Speaker 2>it so well, we don't need our own word for it.

0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:03.520
<v Speaker 1>I think they just had so many of them that

0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:09.600
<v Speaker 1>the word was used so constantly and exactly it's their brand.

0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:13.480
<v Speaker 1>It's like the French brand to have comment overthrow.

0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:15.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:20.199
<v Speaker 1>So, once Napoleon took charge, he basically Marie condoed France,

0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:24.200
<v Speaker 1>cleaned house, reorganized everything. You know, if it didn't spark joy,

0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:27.400
<v Speaker 1>it was out of there. Brought some much needed structure

0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:30.680
<v Speaker 1>to the post revolution chaos. He revamped education, tried to

0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.840
<v Speaker 1>set up a meritocracy, and made the country feel like

0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:37.120
<v Speaker 1>it was finally in grown up hands. And he was

0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:39.480
<v Speaker 1>also out there crushing it on the battlefield. He was

0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.840
<v Speaker 1>winning wars all over Europe. Of course, all this victory

0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:46.040
<v Speaker 1>was going straight to his head. His ego was getting

0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:54.400
<v Speaker 1>bigger than a French aristocrat's wig. Come on, solid joke.

0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:56.640
<v Speaker 3>It's pretty good. Are you making fun of him at

0:12:56.679 --> 0:12:57.320
<v Speaker 3>different turns?

0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:00.079
<v Speaker 2>When you said he rose, which would be tough for

0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:02.040
<v Speaker 2>him because even when standing up it looked like he

0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:05.320
<v Speaker 2>was sitting and in big hands, but probably quite small

0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:05.920
<v Speaker 2>because he was.

0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:08.679
<v Speaker 1>Known for being a tony man delivered jokes. Okay, well,

0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:12.240
<v Speaker 1>believe it or not. Yeah, So basically what's happening here

0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:14.440
<v Speaker 1>is that he is just like running rough shot all

0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.640
<v Speaker 1>over Europe. The napoleonic wars are going on, and he's

0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:21.319
<v Speaker 1>just kicking ass and he's winning, and he's like getting

0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:25.800
<v Speaker 1>this bigger and bigger ego, and of course that in

0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:30.480
<v Speaker 1>classic snap foop form would wind up badly compromising his judgment.

0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.600
<v Speaker 1>Where's the line between confidence and full blown delusion? Have

0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.560
<v Speaker 1>you seen ego backfire like in the sports world, Yeah,

0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:38.080
<v Speaker 1>for sure.

0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:44.360
<v Speaker 2>True confidence actually usually manifests in someone who is much

0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.680
<v Speaker 2>more laid back and wants to uplift others and put

0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.720
<v Speaker 2>them in positions of power and empower them to be

0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:56.640
<v Speaker 2>a part of decision making. Narcissistic insecurity is usually the

0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:59.960
<v Speaker 2>kind of ego power trip that results in a dictatorial leader,

0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:04.480
<v Speaker 2>a boss who's an a hole, or a player who

0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:07.240
<v Speaker 2>is you know, too diva like in their tendencies and

0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.360
<v Speaker 2>doesn't know how to incorporate the rest of their teammates.

0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:12.520
<v Speaker 2>I think famously Michael Jordan was one who I don't

0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:14.160
<v Speaker 2>know if it was ego so much as it was

0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:18.200
<v Speaker 2>just an understanding of his own super heroic powers. But

0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:20.960
<v Speaker 2>he had to be convinced to embrace an offense that

0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:23.880
<v Speaker 2>would bring in his teammates, understanding that he was still

0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:25.440
<v Speaker 2>going to be the main target. But in order for

0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:27.160
<v Speaker 2>him to get the ball and shoot it, they needed

0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:30.480
<v Speaker 2>to make everybody else be a threat as well. And

0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:34.520
<v Speaker 2>so that flip from perhaps a little bit too egocentric

0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:37.400
<v Speaker 2>to team player was really what opened up his greatness.

0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:39.640
<v Speaker 2>So I think you can usually tell when somebody is

0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:40.880
<v Speaker 2>a real leader.

0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:42.480
<v Speaker 1>I think that's the phrase.

0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:45.520
<v Speaker 2>Leaders don't create followers, Followers make leaders.

0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:49.800
<v Speaker 1>Oh I like that. All right, let's get back to

0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:53.160
<v Speaker 1>mister Napoleon. He was getting a little too big for

0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:55.720
<v Speaker 1>his cute little white britches, and he started he did

0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:58.800
<v Speaker 1>it again. Yeah, that one was deliberate, you're right, okay,

0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:05.400
<v Speaker 1>and he started forcing France's allies into a strict economic

0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.800
<v Speaker 1>boycott of Great Britain. Most went along with this, but

0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.280
<v Speaker 1>there was one holdout, one stick in the mud, and

0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:15.360
<v Speaker 1>that was Russia. Napoleon did not think that that was

0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:18.840
<v Speaker 1>very bomp. So guess what he did. What do you

0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:24.360
<v Speaker 1>do when another country pisses you off? Tariffs? Good answer,

0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:27.600
<v Speaker 1>you're not correct. You just invade you're pissed off in

0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:35.320
<v Speaker 1>another country, you invade them. It's June eighteen twelve, and

0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.720
<v Speaker 1>Napoleon is really feeling himself a big time. He's giving

0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.800
<v Speaker 1>major I alone can fix this vibes. And he's got

0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.760
<v Speaker 1>the largest army Europe has ever seen, six hundred and

0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.520
<v Speaker 1>fifty thousand troops. And that's not even counting all the

0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:50.240
<v Speaker 1>mimes who are just pretending to be troops.

0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:56.440
<v Speaker 2>Come on, and all the bakers that made the baguettes

0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.000
<v Speaker 2>for the troops every morning. Yeah, we're courced into battle

0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:00.960
<v Speaker 2>with begets a sore. It's when things went awry.

0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:04.640
<v Speaker 1>A stale bagette is a that is a weapon for sure,

0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:07.160
<v Speaker 1>hard as hell. Yeah, you can't break it tooth, you

0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:09.680
<v Speaker 1>can't eat it. You're going to use it on the

0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:11.280
<v Speaker 1>battlefield for sure.

0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:13.640
<v Speaker 2>Can I ask you an honest question, ed, how many

0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:17.080
<v Speaker 2>guests do you have on this podcast who are listening

0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:19.440
<v Speaker 2>along and you could tell by their face that they

0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:22.680
<v Speaker 2>recognize all the dates and names you're saying, and then

0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:26.440
<v Speaker 2>suddenly realized they retained nothing from school. And while they've

0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:29.640
<v Speaker 2>heard of Robes Pierre and they believe eighteen twelve to

0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:30.800
<v Speaker 2>be a pretty big year.

0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:31.280
<v Speaker 3>For some stuff.

0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:33.680
<v Speaker 2>Couple, if you made them take a quiz right now,

0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:37.600
<v Speaker 2>they'd be like, not entirely sure what happened. Honestly, Marie

0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:39.040
<v Speaker 2>Antoinette definitely got her head cut off.

0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:43.440
<v Speaker 1>I remember that. It doesn't it doesn't matter, like we're

0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:45.880
<v Speaker 1>that's what I'm here for. We're just hanging out, enjoying

0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:49.320
<v Speaker 1>it together. And some of these things, like you know,

0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:52.840
<v Speaker 1>I dip into them as like new research projects from

0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:56.560
<v Speaker 1>like episode to episode. But I don't retain stuff either.

0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:58.480
<v Speaker 2>No, I was gonna say, if we learned one thing

0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:00.680
<v Speaker 2>from history, it's that we don't remember history.

0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:04.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So with all this military might, Napoleon's like, it's

0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:08.000
<v Speaker 1>time to teach Russia a lesson. He's fully convinced they're

0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:12.560
<v Speaker 1>a total mess. They're disorganized, underprepared, and just not at

0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:16.080
<v Speaker 1>all at his level. And he even claims publicly that

0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:19.119
<v Speaker 1>this whole thing will be wrapped up in twenty days,

0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:23.440
<v Speaker 1>which spoiler alert, might be the mother of all jinxes.

0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:28.240
<v Speaker 1>I'm curious. You're an athlete, you cover sports, Like, do

0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:32.800
<v Speaker 1>you believe in superstitions and jinxes? Streaks, hot streaks, all

0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:33.400
<v Speaker 1>that kind of thing.

0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:37.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't believe in superstitions, Like, oh, if you sat

0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:39.800
<v Speaker 2>on the couch in this one specific spot wearing this

0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:42.440
<v Speaker 2>one specific shirt in your team one, if you change

0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:44.440
<v Speaker 2>that up, they're going to lose. I think the average

0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:48.680
<v Speaker 2>fan has absolutely no import on the outcome. But there's

0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:51.320
<v Speaker 2>a guy named Ben Cohen who wrote a book called

0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:54.879
<v Speaker 2>The Hot Hand, and he actually dove into the concept

0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:58.600
<v Speaker 2>of whether an athlete is essentially better in the middle

0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:01.040
<v Speaker 2>of having like the hot hand and the NBA.

0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:02.679
<v Speaker 1>Jam if you will, he's on fire.

0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:06.399
<v Speaker 2>If there's actually such a thing and it's a really

0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.359
<v Speaker 2>complicated and fascinating look at, like the parts that feel

0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:12.240
<v Speaker 2>like it's a very clear thing, you're almost in flow state, sure,

0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:16.359
<v Speaker 2>which most creative types understand, versus whether it's simply about

0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:20.000
<v Speaker 2>confidence mixed with a trained body.

0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.600
<v Speaker 3>Right, if you have enough messile memory to remember.

0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:23.520
<v Speaker 2>The thing you're supposed to be doing, and you can

0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:25.280
<v Speaker 2>get so in the flow state and so confident that

0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.480
<v Speaker 2>you're not overthinking anything, you just naturally do the thing

0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:32.480
<v Speaker 2>successfully over and over again, which then becomes like you're

0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:35.480
<v Speaker 2>on fire or you're in the zone. So I believe

0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:37.600
<v Speaker 2>in it for the athlete. I do not believe in

0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:38.360
<v Speaker 2>it for the fan.

0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:42.280
<v Speaker 1>I still feel like if I wear the wrong color socks,

0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:45.639
<v Speaker 1>the Dodgers will lose, so well.

0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:47.160
<v Speaker 3>Keep wearing them then, because I'm a Cubs fan.

0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:52.439
<v Speaker 1>French troops moved into Russia. Russian general has deployed a

0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:56.280
<v Speaker 1>very interesting strategy. Instead of standing their ground, they just

0:18:56.440 --> 0:19:01.000
<v Speaker 1>kept retreating again and again, letting Napoleon's troop chase them

0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:04.440
<v Speaker 1>deeper and deeper into Russian territory. Why would they do this?

0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.119
<v Speaker 1>This seems insane, right, Well, it was actually quite savvy

0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:10.600
<v Speaker 1>because the French were burning through their supplies, getting farther

0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:14.360
<v Speaker 1>and farther from their reinforcements, and despite the crushing heat

0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:19.760
<v Speaker 1>and endless mud and tons of disease ravaging all the troops,

0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:22.720
<v Speaker 1>they kept marching like they took the bait. They just

0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:26.560
<v Speaker 1>kept going straight into Russia. Cue the dramatic music. Because

0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:29.600
<v Speaker 1>this was all a trap. The Russian army was employing

0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:34.040
<v Speaker 1>what is known as a scorched earth strategy, meaning they

0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:37.600
<v Speaker 1>would burn down their own towns and torch all of

0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:41.240
<v Speaker 1>their own supplies as they retreated, basically saying, if we

0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:43.160
<v Speaker 1>began to have it to neither can you? Oh no way,

0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:45.560
<v Speaker 1>they're Russian. I can't do a Russian accent. It's very smart.

0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:47.760
<v Speaker 1>I mean yeah, I mean it's terrible, but it's brutal

0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:54.000
<v Speaker 1>but shrewd. So this scorched earth policy basically meant that

0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:57.840
<v Speaker 1>Napoleon's army couldn't live off local food stores and supplies,

0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:01.119
<v Speaker 1>which would be the typical practice of invading army.

0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:02.960
<v Speaker 3>And be stroganoffs and such.

0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:07.200
<v Speaker 1>Of course, and they really couldn't do anything except keep marching,

0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:10.679
<v Speaker 1>exhausted and starving deeper and deeper into what was quickly

0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:13.960
<v Speaker 1>becoming a hellscape. Now you've been around a lot of competition.

0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:17.960
<v Speaker 1>What's more valuable brute strength or sound strategy? How do

0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:18.920
<v Speaker 1>you find that balance?

0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:24.119
<v Speaker 2>Well, Actually, something I learned in laser tag is you

0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:27.080
<v Speaker 2>have to have the upper ground. The most important thing

0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:29.760
<v Speaker 2>out of the three is you have to have the

0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:32.359
<v Speaker 2>upper ground so that you could see down upon your enemy,

0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:35.719
<v Speaker 2>and your strategy improves because you're able to see them

0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:36.760
<v Speaker 2>and often they can't see you.

0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:40.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay, laser tag, In laser.

0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:43.000
<v Speaker 2>Tag or in life, once you've established the higher ground.

0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:47.119
<v Speaker 2>I am way more into strategy than brute strength. I

0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:49.560
<v Speaker 2>believe there's a time and place like a bar fight

0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:52.720
<v Speaker 2>where brute strength will likely win, and everywhere else where

0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:54.280
<v Speaker 2>strategicy is involved.

0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:58.879
<v Speaker 3>I think it's more about the brain. Yeah, brains over brawn.

0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:01.600
<v Speaker 1>I think you're right. And I say that because I'm

0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:04.359
<v Speaker 1>a weakling and I like to think I could persevere

0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:07.959
<v Speaker 1>in a tough situation Now, despite numerous what we can

0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:10.520
<v Speaker 1>only imagine to be stern warnings from many of his

0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:14.439
<v Speaker 1>top advisers about turning around, Napoleon was convinced that he

0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:17.040
<v Speaker 1>could lead the French army to victory in Moscow. He

0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:20.280
<v Speaker 1>was all in on chasing this glory. At one point

0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:23.160
<v Speaker 1>he nearly caught the Russians at the city of Smolensk,

0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:27.080
<v Speaker 1>but instead of pressing his advantage, he paused the march

0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:30.000
<v Speaker 1>on what happened to be his forty third birthday. Because

0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:33.800
<v Speaker 1>nothing says military genius like taking a personal day during

0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:37.200
<v Speaker 1>a war. I would presume Champagne was involved, though, right,

0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:41.440
<v Speaker 1>I guess right. I mean, it is weird how well

0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:45.560
<v Speaker 1>the officers lived right in these on these like like

0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:51.040
<v Speaker 1>they had like these incredible tents with furniture and butlers

0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:52.520
<v Speaker 1>and servants and all kinds of stuff.

0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:57.320
<v Speaker 2>There's a famous Napoleon Champagne quote in victory you deserve it,

0:21:57.480 --> 0:21:58.639
<v Speaker 2>and loss you need it.

0:21:59.200 --> 0:22:01.639
<v Speaker 1>Oh interesting, So it's kind of like just always have

0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:03.320
<v Speaker 1>it on hand, there you go.

0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:05.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I believe you might have been the originator of

0:22:05.520 --> 0:22:06.080
<v Speaker 2>the sabering.

0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:10.080
<v Speaker 1>Oh that would be saying, you know, a Champagne saber.

0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:11.520
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I've done it. Yeah, me too.

0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:15.879
<v Speaker 2>I think it's tied back to Napoleon and his thoughts

0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:16.480
<v Speaker 2>on Champagne.

0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:18.480
<v Speaker 3>Don't quote me on that, but that's something I've been to.

0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:21.480
<v Speaker 1>I like that. The only downside of this birthday party

0:22:21.520 --> 0:22:25.080
<v Speaker 1>is that the party favors were lice and typhus, which

0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:30.600
<v Speaker 1>is a horrible disease spread by lice. Oh oh no, oh. Yeah.

0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:34.600
<v Speaker 1>This army was really really bit draggled at this point,

0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:38.480
<v Speaker 1>so we're settling into a cycle here, chase, scorch repeat.

0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:42.000
<v Speaker 1>But there was one proper showdown, and that was on

0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:46.320
<v Speaker 1>September seventh, eighteen twelve, at the Battle of Borodino. It

0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:50.159
<v Speaker 1>was brutal. Both sides took massive casualties, but the Russians

0:22:50.320 --> 0:22:53.000
<v Speaker 1>had the edge. They were closer to home and could

0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:57.359
<v Speaker 1>rebuild faster. Napoleon's army not so much. This raises a

0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:00.960
<v Speaker 1>good question home field advantage. Is it always an advantage

0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:02.399
<v Speaker 1>or is it sometimes a liability.

0:23:02.760 --> 0:23:04.520
<v Speaker 3>I would say it's always an advantage.

0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:08.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't think it's always going to tip the scales,

0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:12.560
<v Speaker 2>but I would say it's arguably almost never a disadvantage.

0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:15.280
<v Speaker 2>Although I can think of a couple places where the

0:23:15.320 --> 0:23:19.359
<v Speaker 2>ownership was so hated that being at home and still

0:23:19.400 --> 0:23:23.480
<v Speaker 2>being showered with booze and rage over the decision making

0:23:23.600 --> 0:23:27.360
<v Speaker 2>of your front office, GM, president, etc. Might be more

0:23:27.400 --> 0:23:29.680
<v Speaker 2>frustrating than just being on the road and accepting that

0:23:29.800 --> 0:23:31.880
<v Speaker 2>the opposing team's fans will hate you. But I think

0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:33.840
<v Speaker 2>for the most part, knowing you came from your house

0:23:33.840 --> 0:23:35.920
<v Speaker 2>and you're going back to it, you know, the lay

0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:38.479
<v Speaker 2>of the land, all that stuff, maybe you get some

0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:43.080
<v Speaker 2>hometown whistles because the fans are subconsciously affecting the officiating.

0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:44.160
<v Speaker 3>Usually a good thing.

0:23:44.480 --> 0:23:46.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I would think that that just roar of

0:23:46.800 --> 0:23:50.639
<v Speaker 1>a hometown crowd is going to give you so much adrenaline.

0:23:50.920 --> 0:23:54.159
<v Speaker 1>But at the same time, I could see how like

0:23:54.280 --> 0:23:59.400
<v Speaker 1>going into the sort of den of the enemy could

0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:04.639
<v Speaker 1>also be like kind of like rage inducing in a

0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:09.200
<v Speaker 1>powerful way and in a maybe an inspiring way. Napoleon

0:24:09.640 --> 0:24:14.920
<v Speaker 1>finally made it to Moscow on September fourteenth. Victory, right,

0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:18.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's the capital city of Russia. He took

0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:21.600
<v Speaker 1>the capital that's got that should be it like game over.

0:24:22.600 --> 0:24:29.480
<v Speaker 1>Not quite. Napoleon believed capturing Moscow would force Czar Alexander

0:24:29.520 --> 0:24:32.480
<v Speaker 1>to seek peace, as had occurred with all of the

0:24:32.600 --> 0:24:36.960
<v Speaker 1>other European capitals he had invaded. However, he massively underestimated

0:24:36.960 --> 0:24:42.680
<v Speaker 1>the Russians resolve and their flare for strategic nihilism. When

0:24:42.760 --> 0:24:47.479
<v Speaker 1>Napoleon's battered troops entered the city, it was a smoldering husk.

0:24:47.840 --> 0:24:52.000
<v Speaker 1>Russian forces had completely torched it their own capital city.

0:24:52.200 --> 0:24:55.680
<v Speaker 1>On the way out, civilians had fled. Supplies were nearly

0:24:55.760 --> 0:24:58.880
<v Speaker 1>non existent, no food, no shelter, and not even any

0:24:58.880 --> 0:25:02.800
<v Speaker 1>officials to negotiate with. And to top it off, the

0:25:02.920 --> 0:25:06.800
<v Speaker 1>legendary Russian winter was fast approaching.

0:25:07.240 --> 0:25:11.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh, this is like when you played the Packers in December. Yes,

0:25:12.200 --> 0:25:14.840
<v Speaker 2>you just you know, if you know that you've got

0:25:14.880 --> 0:25:17.879
<v Speaker 2>an extra man on your side and it's the hail

0:25:18.320 --> 0:25:23.040
<v Speaker 2>and sleet and you're the Packers and conditions at Lambeau. Yeah, Yeah,

0:25:23.080 --> 0:25:25.920
<v Speaker 2>invited the Chicago Bears over and then just left him there.

0:25:26.160 --> 0:25:29.679
<v Speaker 1>They got old man Winter on their side. Yeah, exactly. Oh, man,

0:25:29.800 --> 0:25:32.639
<v Speaker 1>that's a great way to think about it. Things are dire,

0:25:32.760 --> 0:25:35.520
<v Speaker 1>but Napoleon is still convinced he just won the war,

0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:40.800
<v Speaker 1>so he sends Czar Alexander a letter politely requesting his surrender. Now,

0:25:40.880 --> 0:25:43.840
<v Speaker 1>to be fair, eighteenth century military etiquette did allow for

0:25:43.960 --> 0:25:48.480
<v Speaker 1>this kind of thing. But after five freezing, miserable weeks

0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:52.760
<v Speaker 1>with no response, it became clear Napoleon was just being

0:25:52.840 --> 0:25:58.280
<v Speaker 1>ghosted like hard and the worst part, he had absolutely

0:25:58.359 --> 0:26:02.200
<v Speaker 1>no leverage left this. He's like, I took your capital,

0:26:02.280 --> 0:26:04.880
<v Speaker 1>I won, and the Russians were just like, sh don't

0:26:04.920 --> 0:26:09.679
<v Speaker 1>pay him any attention. He'll leave, And they're right. That

0:26:09.840 --> 0:26:10.720
<v Speaker 1>is incredible.

0:26:11.160 --> 0:26:13.560
<v Speaker 2>You would never imagine that the goal would be to

0:26:13.600 --> 0:26:17.919
<v Speaker 2>trash your own place and just retreat, retreat, retreat.

0:26:17.600 --> 0:26:19.080
<v Speaker 3>Run away, run away, as.

0:26:19.000 --> 0:26:22.160
<v Speaker 2>They said Monty Python, and then it would work because

0:26:22.320 --> 0:26:24.639
<v Speaker 2>you don't even consider the fact that the opposing side

0:26:24.680 --> 0:26:26.600
<v Speaker 2>doesn't have any backups.

0:26:27.000 --> 0:26:33.040
<v Speaker 1>It's weirdly nihilistic to torch your own city, but they

0:26:33.240 --> 0:26:37.040
<v Speaker 1>saved their city by doing that. Weirdly, of course, they

0:26:37.040 --> 0:26:41.880
<v Speaker 1>had to rebuild, but they it was still theirs. Because finally,

0:26:42.000 --> 0:26:45.040
<v Speaker 1>with no food, no shelter, and by the way, fresh

0:26:45.080 --> 0:26:49.440
<v Speaker 1>whispers of yet another coup brewing back home, Napoleon had

0:26:49.480 --> 0:26:52.399
<v Speaker 1>no choice. In mid October, with the first snow starting

0:26:52.400 --> 0:26:54.879
<v Speaker 1>to fall, he ordered the retreat.

0:26:55.680 --> 0:27:00.439
<v Speaker 2>Wow, great timing, having gained nothing nothing, having one nothing

0:27:00.520 --> 0:27:03.399
<v Speaker 2>gained nothing other than I guess a big chunk of

0:27:03.480 --> 0:27:09.240
<v Speaker 2>Russia is now ash right, they did achieve burning down

0:27:09.280 --> 0:27:11.920
<v Speaker 2>a significant number of cities and towns and a big,

0:27:12.320 --> 0:27:14.280
<v Speaker 2>a big city center in Moscow.

0:27:14.080 --> 0:27:16.720
<v Speaker 1>But they weren't able to claim didn't claim anything. Yeah,

0:27:16.760 --> 0:27:20.720
<v Speaker 1>it was it was a total loss. And as we'll

0:27:20.760 --> 0:27:21.359
<v Speaker 1>soon do you think you.

0:27:21.359 --> 0:27:24.000
<v Speaker 2>Went back and said it was a complete and total obliteration.

0:27:25.040 --> 0:27:29.040
<v Speaker 2>And then his his people were like, I don't know the.

0:27:29.119 --> 0:27:32.760
<v Speaker 1>Journalists of the well we cover Yeah, we had some

0:27:32.840 --> 0:27:43.000
<v Speaker 1>reporters there. Story, my friend. So what was left of

0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:47.320
<v Speaker 1>the French army, which they lost so many people. We'll

0:27:47.320 --> 0:27:51.000
<v Speaker 1>get to the numbers shortly. But what was left of

0:27:51.040 --> 0:27:54.120
<v Speaker 1>the army limped away towards the border and finally made

0:27:54.119 --> 0:27:56.920
<v Speaker 1>it out of Russia in late December of eighteen twelve.

0:27:57.000 --> 0:28:00.240
<v Speaker 1>But at this point Napoleon wasn't even with them. He

0:28:00.280 --> 0:28:03.320
<v Speaker 1>had actually abandoned his troops to rush back to Paris

0:28:03.359 --> 0:28:06.119
<v Speaker 1>on December fifth, not because he left the oven on,

0:28:06.440 --> 0:28:10.600
<v Speaker 1>but because those coup rumors were really heating up. Now

0:28:10.800 --> 0:28:14.040
<v Speaker 1>there was actually a coup brewing, and it was quashed

0:28:14.080 --> 0:28:17.040
<v Speaker 1>pretty quickly. Still, what kind of coach leaves his players

0:28:17.240 --> 0:28:18.200
<v Speaker 1>in the dust like that.

0:28:18.800 --> 0:28:21.600
<v Speaker 2>There's an NFL player who retired at halftime.

0:28:22.359 --> 0:28:24.400
<v Speaker 3>No, it was not an important game.

0:28:24.440 --> 0:28:26.000
<v Speaker 1>It was just a regular season game.

0:28:26.440 --> 0:28:29.000
<v Speaker 2>But at halftime he was like, yep, think that's about

0:28:29.040 --> 0:28:33.680
<v Speaker 2>it for me. What Vonte Davis, Vonte Davis.

0:28:33.240 --> 0:28:37.879
<v Speaker 1>That's intense. Well, this was, needless to say, a brutal escapade.

0:28:37.960 --> 0:28:41.960
<v Speaker 1>Let's review the numbers here. Napoleon had marched into Russia

0:28:42.040 --> 0:28:46.320
<v Speaker 1>with over six hundred thousand troops fewer than one hundred thousand.

0:28:46.360 --> 0:28:51.320
<v Speaker 1>Made it out not good, not a good look, and

0:28:51.400 --> 0:28:55.600
<v Speaker 1>after this the dominoes started to fall pretty fast. Napoleon's

0:28:55.640 --> 0:28:59.800
<v Speaker 1>aura of invincibility was shattered and his enemies pounced. By

0:28:59.800 --> 0:29:04.040
<v Speaker 1>eight fourteen, a coalition of major European powers, including Austria, Prussia, Russia,

0:29:04.080 --> 0:29:08.000
<v Speaker 1>Britain and others, defeated him and sent him into exile

0:29:08.080 --> 0:29:11.120
<v Speaker 1>on the island of Elba, which is kind of a

0:29:11.120 --> 0:29:17.240
<v Speaker 1>beautiful island in the Mediterranean, so sounds nice. Yeah, But

0:29:17.320 --> 0:29:19.560
<v Speaker 1>Napoleon wasn't done yet. Less than a year later, he

0:29:19.640 --> 0:29:23.520
<v Speaker 1>pulled the ultimate surprise bitch and escaped for a brief,

0:29:23.680 --> 0:29:27.480
<v Speaker 1>chaotic comeback known as the one Hundred Days. This ended

0:29:27.560 --> 0:29:30.080
<v Speaker 1>at the famous Battle of Waterloo, where he was trounced

0:29:30.240 --> 0:29:35.320
<v Speaker 1>again and sent packing again, this time to Saint Helena,

0:29:35.440 --> 0:29:39.640
<v Speaker 1>which is an extremely remote island way off in the

0:29:39.720 --> 0:29:42.880
<v Speaker 1>South Atlantic. They learned their lesson, like, we're not gonna

0:29:42.880 --> 0:29:44.720
<v Speaker 1>put him in just like a nice fancy place. Were

0:29:44.800 --> 0:29:47.719
<v Speaker 1>sent him way the hell away. Meanwhile, the rest of Europe,

0:29:47.760 --> 0:29:52.520
<v Speaker 1>traumatized by Napoleon's entire vibe, held the Congress of Vienna

0:29:52.640 --> 0:29:56.400
<v Speaker 1>to redraw the map, restore monarchies, and basically agree let's

0:29:56.440 --> 0:30:02.320
<v Speaker 1>never do that again. Napoleon then died in exile in

0:30:02.360 --> 0:30:06.040
<v Speaker 1>eighteen twenty one, presumably still wearing that awesome hat, and

0:30:06.360 --> 0:30:11.240
<v Speaker 1>Europe found a balance. Napoleon's dead. Wow, yeah, oh yeah, No,

0:30:11.320 --> 0:30:14.840
<v Speaker 1>he's dead. He didn't make it. He died.

0:30:15.600 --> 0:30:17.360
<v Speaker 3>Should put that at the beginning of the episode.

0:30:17.480 --> 0:30:18.400
<v Speaker 1>He was still a young man.

0:30:18.880 --> 0:30:20.360
<v Speaker 3>We haven't watched history yet.

0:30:20.960 --> 0:30:22.480
<v Speaker 1>I think he was in his fifties. He was like

0:30:22.520 --> 0:30:24.640
<v Speaker 1>fifty one or something. Yeah. Evidently when he went to

0:30:24.680 --> 0:30:29.280
<v Speaker 1>Saint Helena, his health declined pretty rapidly, in part because

0:30:29.720 --> 0:30:34.880
<v Speaker 1>it's thought he was such this grand personality and now

0:30:34.920 --> 0:30:38.640
<v Speaker 1>he was just confined to this remote place with very

0:30:38.640 --> 0:30:43.320
<v Speaker 1>little going on, and he became depressed and reclusive and

0:30:44.280 --> 0:30:45.040
<v Speaker 1>his health declined.

0:30:45.120 --> 0:30:47.400
<v Speaker 2>Kind of a broken heart Wow. Yes, so I would

0:30:47.400 --> 0:30:49.960
<v Speaker 2>have guessed gout. Yeah, to be honest, I would have

0:30:50.000 --> 0:30:50.600
<v Speaker 2>guessed gout.

0:30:51.040 --> 0:30:54.800
<v Speaker 1>But he died of champagne poisoning. What a shame. Yeah.

0:30:54.920 --> 0:30:58.080
<v Speaker 2>Do you know how you get gout? It's literally too

0:30:58.120 --> 0:30:59.760
<v Speaker 2>much alcohol and rich foods.

0:31:00.120 --> 0:31:00.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:31:00.520 --> 0:31:03.000
<v Speaker 2>I have a friend who got it in college from

0:31:03.040 --> 0:31:04.240
<v Speaker 2>being a sorority sister.

0:31:04.760 --> 0:31:07.120
<v Speaker 1>Yikes. But it's also a genetic thing, like you have

0:31:07.160 --> 0:31:09.200
<v Speaker 1>a genetic predisposition for gout.

0:31:10.200 --> 0:31:12.440
<v Speaker 2>Sure, but we'll never stop making fun of her forgetting

0:31:12.440 --> 0:31:13.520
<v Speaker 2>the gout in college.

0:31:13.600 --> 0:31:19.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Do you know Judah Friedlander, the comedian. He's so amazing.

0:31:19.840 --> 0:31:22.560
<v Speaker 1>I've known him from way back doing stand up in

0:31:22.560 --> 0:31:25.880
<v Speaker 1>New York, like in the nineties, and I remember he

0:31:25.080 --> 0:31:28.440
<v Speaker 1>got out and he talked about it on stage. You

0:31:28.560 --> 0:31:31.959
<v Speaker 1>talk about how it's like your toe becomes like a

0:31:32.000 --> 0:31:34.800
<v Speaker 1>Fred Flintstone toe. It looks like you, it looks like

0:31:34.800 --> 0:31:38.520
<v Speaker 1>you dropped a rock on your toe in a Flintstones cartoon.

0:31:38.560 --> 0:31:42.880
<v Speaker 1>And it's now like wah wah, like a red bull pulsating.

0:31:42.960 --> 0:31:46.480
<v Speaker 1>Like that's how badly it hurts. Yeah. Anyway, so Europe

0:31:46.520 --> 0:31:50.120
<v Speaker 1>found a balance of power that was actually pretty rock

0:31:50.160 --> 0:31:53.080
<v Speaker 1>steady until a certain World war broke out in nineteen fourteen.

0:31:53.120 --> 0:31:57.720
<v Speaker 1>But that is a story for another snapoo day, and

0:31:57.840 --> 0:32:02.320
<v Speaker 1>that Sarah Spain, that is our snapfhoo for today. What

0:32:02.400 --> 0:32:07.640
<v Speaker 1>did you learn any takeaways from Napoleon's disasters and of Russia?

0:32:08.120 --> 0:32:10.120
<v Speaker 2>I mean, one of the things I learned was that

0:32:10.320 --> 0:32:13.600
<v Speaker 2>there was more strategy even in the days of that

0:32:13.720 --> 0:32:16.360
<v Speaker 2>kind of town torching battle.

0:32:16.640 --> 0:32:18.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I'm impressed by.

0:32:18.120 --> 0:32:20.640
<v Speaker 2>The Russians, which feels like a strange thing to say

0:32:20.720 --> 0:32:25.480
<v Speaker 2>right now, but truly good plan, well executed.

0:32:26.000 --> 0:32:28.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah about a five stars Russia. Yeah, And if there's

0:32:28.800 --> 0:32:32.920
<v Speaker 1>any lesson for Napoleon here, it's like, I mean, I

0:32:32.920 --> 0:32:35.480
<v Speaker 1>feel like Kenny Rodgers said it best right. You got

0:32:35.520 --> 0:32:38.600
<v Speaker 1>to know when to hold them, no, when to fold them, no,

0:32:38.680 --> 0:32:41.800
<v Speaker 1>whe to walk away, no, when to run. He should

0:32:41.800 --> 0:32:43.600
<v Speaker 1>have he should have just thrown in the towel there,

0:32:44.800 --> 0:32:48.239
<v Speaker 1>and I completely agree. Unfortunately, this is a vibe we

0:32:48.320 --> 0:32:51.560
<v Speaker 1>still see a lot of today leaders doubling down instead

0:32:51.560 --> 0:32:55.560
<v Speaker 1>of backing off, mistaking stubbornness for strength. We have tech

0:32:55.680 --> 0:32:58.920
<v Speaker 1>CEOs telling us that AI is going to save us. Meanwhile,

0:32:58.920 --> 0:33:02.200
<v Speaker 1>it's really starting to feel like the fast tract of

0:33:02.440 --> 0:33:03.720
<v Speaker 1>full on dystopia.

0:33:03.800 --> 0:33:06.160
<v Speaker 2>I think the thing we started with at the beginning

0:33:06.200 --> 0:33:10.600
<v Speaker 2>the directory. The idea of co leading is something that

0:33:10.640 --> 0:33:14.040
<v Speaker 2>should be getting a lot more attention in many spaces

0:33:14.120 --> 0:33:19.160
<v Speaker 2>of late, because it prevents that one egotistical, dictatorial person

0:33:19.280 --> 0:33:23.360
<v Speaker 2>who will not stop themselves from being checked. And I

0:33:23.400 --> 0:33:27.600
<v Speaker 2>think in a lot of business and corporate spaces there

0:33:27.680 --> 0:33:30.160
<v Speaker 2>is a push for the kind of leadership that co

0:33:30.280 --> 0:33:35.480
<v Speaker 2>leadership would embrace. Which is best idea wins bring everyone together,

0:33:36.360 --> 0:33:39.080
<v Speaker 2>utilize the strengths of all the different people, elevate the

0:33:39.120 --> 0:33:42.440
<v Speaker 2>people beneath you, empower them to make great decisions and

0:33:42.520 --> 0:33:44.680
<v Speaker 2>do things instead of the sort of.

0:33:46.080 --> 0:33:47.800
<v Speaker 1>Micromanaging of one person.

0:33:47.640 --> 0:33:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Who needs to double check everything and sign off on everything,

0:33:49.920 --> 0:33:52.800
<v Speaker 2>which is a complete waste of time, completely ineffective, and

0:33:52.880 --> 0:33:55.520
<v Speaker 2>empowers one person to believe that the reason for all

0:33:55.560 --> 0:33:58.120
<v Speaker 2>the success, And that's how you end up like Napoleon,

0:33:58.160 --> 0:34:01.280
<v Speaker 2>where you've now convinced yourself you're so great that every

0:34:01.280 --> 0:34:04.360
<v Speaker 2>decision you're making must be the right one. Every decision

0:34:04.800 --> 0:34:07.240
<v Speaker 2>you make going forward must be followed. But no matter

0:34:07.280 --> 0:34:09.560
<v Speaker 2>whether someone is telling you, hey, maybe there's a reason

0:34:09.600 --> 0:34:10.759
<v Speaker 2>all these towns are already.

0:34:10.520 --> 0:34:11.719
<v Speaker 3>Torched by the time we get to them.

0:34:11.800 --> 0:34:15.240
<v Speaker 1>Exactly you think they've got a plan. Amen, very well,

0:34:15.280 --> 0:34:19.040
<v Speaker 1>said Sarah Spain. You just put a book out. Congratulations,

0:34:19.040 --> 0:34:22.319
<v Speaker 1>in addition to your amazing podcast All about Sports, tell

0:34:22.400 --> 0:34:23.480
<v Speaker 1>us about Good Game first.

0:34:23.880 --> 0:34:26.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so Good Game with Sarah Spain is the first

0:34:26.280 --> 0:34:30.120
<v Speaker 2>and only, as far as we know, daily women's sports podcast.

0:34:30.400 --> 0:34:31.120
<v Speaker 1>Yes, daily.

0:34:31.680 --> 0:34:33.600
<v Speaker 2>It is a lot of work, but it is what

0:34:33.640 --> 0:34:36.480
<v Speaker 2>was necessary. The folks who started the iHeart Women's Sports

0:34:36.480 --> 0:34:38.520
<v Speaker 2>Network reached out and one of them was Sue Bird.

0:34:38.680 --> 0:34:41.040
<v Speaker 2>And you can't say no to Sup Bird about really anything,

0:34:41.040 --> 0:34:43.239
<v Speaker 2>because she's a legend. But when she said, we want

0:34:43.280 --> 0:34:44.560
<v Speaker 2>you to do a show for the network, what would

0:34:44.600 --> 0:34:46.160
<v Speaker 2>it look like? And I had just gotten out of

0:34:46.239 --> 0:34:50.440
<v Speaker 2>thirteen straight years of daily radio for ESPN. I was

0:34:50.560 --> 0:34:53.279
<v Speaker 2>enjoying my first year of not having a show every day,

0:34:53.480 --> 0:34:55.840
<v Speaker 2>and I stupidly said, it's.

0:34:55.760 --> 0:34:57.879
<v Speaker 3>Got to be a daily show because that's what's miss Ailey.

0:34:58.280 --> 0:35:00.680
<v Speaker 2>Because in women's sports, you really you just need the

0:35:00.719 --> 0:35:04.279
<v Speaker 2>same cadence of learning about the star stak stats and

0:35:04.320 --> 0:35:06.520
<v Speaker 2>stories that are out there so that you get excited

0:35:06.520 --> 0:35:08.200
<v Speaker 2>about the games and want to watch them and attend

0:35:08.239 --> 0:35:10.719
<v Speaker 2>them and buy the merchant. So we're offering that to people,

0:35:10.760 --> 0:35:12.239
<v Speaker 2>and people seem to love it, which is great.

0:35:12.520 --> 0:35:15.080
<v Speaker 1>That's awesome. So you have a book. You just put

0:35:15.080 --> 0:35:19.440
<v Speaker 1>a book out called Runs in the Family, an incredible

0:35:19.480 --> 0:35:23.360
<v Speaker 1>true story of football, fatherhood and belonging. Give me the

0:35:23.440 --> 0:35:25.279
<v Speaker 1>quick like breakdown.

0:35:25.520 --> 0:35:27.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, I wanted to be like you, So I wrote

0:35:27.280 --> 0:35:29.279
<v Speaker 2>it all in the two weeks between when your book

0:35:29.320 --> 0:35:30.600
<v Speaker 2>came out and mine came out.

0:35:30.640 --> 0:35:32.160
<v Speaker 3>Can you believe it so fast?

0:35:33.040 --> 0:35:34.920
<v Speaker 2>No? So I wrote a story for ESPN and did

0:35:34.960 --> 0:35:37.760
<v Speaker 2>a feature for ESPN a handful of years ago about

0:35:37.760 --> 0:35:40.080
<v Speaker 2>this guy, Dylan McCullough. He's the running backs coach for

0:35:40.080 --> 0:35:43.600
<v Speaker 2>the Las Vegas Raiders and grew up in Youngstown post

0:35:43.600 --> 0:35:47.000
<v Speaker 2>steel milk collapse, was adopted, never knew his birth family.

0:35:47.360 --> 0:35:49.759
<v Speaker 2>His adoptive dad leaves when he's two, so sort of

0:35:49.760 --> 0:35:53.719
<v Speaker 2>a troubled relationship with father, figures, gets into football, gets recruited,

0:35:54.080 --> 0:35:56.560
<v Speaker 2>has a great career until he gets knee injury and

0:35:56.960 --> 0:35:59.920
<v Speaker 2>becomes a coach, and finally, in his forties, the lost

0:36:00.080 --> 0:36:02.399
<v Speaker 2>change in Pennsylvania, where he was born, he can get

0:36:02.400 --> 0:36:05.960
<v Speaker 2>his birth certificate, and he discovers after finding his mom,

0:36:06.320 --> 0:36:09.200
<v Speaker 2>who never told the dad that she had gotten pregnant,

0:36:09.239 --> 0:36:09.680
<v Speaker 2>was sent.

0:36:09.560 --> 0:36:10.960
<v Speaker 3>Away to have the baby in private.

0:36:11.000 --> 0:36:13.200
<v Speaker 2>Like they used to do in the seventies, finds out

0:36:13.200 --> 0:36:16.279
<v Speaker 2>that his college football coach and mentor of almost thirty

0:36:16.360 --> 0:36:19.480
<v Speaker 2>years was his birth dad all along and neither of

0:36:19.480 --> 0:36:20.000
<v Speaker 2>them knew it.

0:36:21.320 --> 0:36:22.640
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god.

0:36:23.360 --> 0:36:26.000
<v Speaker 3>So it's this really unbelievable story.

0:36:26.040 --> 0:36:30.040
<v Speaker 2>But also there's a ton in there about nature versus nurture,

0:36:30.120 --> 0:36:32.520
<v Speaker 2>what we inherit through blood and DNA, what we inherit

0:36:32.560 --> 0:36:36.960
<v Speaker 2>through family systems, emotional DNA messages, lessons, all the things.

0:36:37.000 --> 0:36:39.000
<v Speaker 2>And so I really wanted to be a book about

0:36:39.040 --> 0:36:41.640
<v Speaker 2>him because his story is so incredible, but also a

0:36:41.640 --> 0:36:44.160
<v Speaker 2>book that anyone would read and think to themselves, like,

0:36:44.760 --> 0:36:47.080
<v Speaker 2>what are the refutable things that I've been passed on

0:36:47.120 --> 0:36:49.080
<v Speaker 2>that I can't reject or deny? And what are the

0:36:49.080 --> 0:36:51.680
<v Speaker 2>things I get to choose to hang on to or

0:36:51.760 --> 0:36:52.200
<v Speaker 2>pass on.

0:36:52.719 --> 0:36:55.960
<v Speaker 1>I can't wait to read this. It really really sounds

0:36:56.120 --> 0:37:03.759
<v Speaker 1>insanely inspiring and caract right. Thank you, Nail. It's hard. Yeah,

0:37:04.080 --> 0:37:07.120
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's awesome. Thank you so much for coming on, Snaffoo.

0:37:07.280 --> 0:37:09.400
<v Speaker 1>It has been an absolute pleasure.

0:37:09.600 --> 0:37:10.600
<v Speaker 3>Thanks for having me.

0:37:10.800 --> 0:37:11.720
<v Speaker 1>It was really fun.

0:37:11.760 --> 0:37:13.840
<v Speaker 2>I actually do feel like I was in history class,

0:37:13.880 --> 0:37:16.480
<v Speaker 2>but with more cool Internet terms of phrase.

0:37:18.600 --> 0:37:22.760
<v Speaker 1>Snappho is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Snapfoo Media,

0:37:22.920 --> 0:37:27.080
<v Speaker 1>a partnership between Film Nation Entertainment and Pacific Electric Picture Company.

0:37:27.200 --> 0:37:31.160
<v Speaker 1>Our post production studio is Gilded Audio. Our executive producers

0:37:31.200 --> 0:37:36.200
<v Speaker 1>are me Ed Helms, Mike Falbo, Glenn Basner, Andy Kim Whitney, Donaldson,

0:37:36.400 --> 0:37:40.400
<v Speaker 1>and Dylan Fagan. This episode was produced by Alyssa Martino

0:37:40.520 --> 0:37:44.600
<v Speaker 1>and Tory Smith. Our video editor is Jared Smith. Technical

0:37:44.640 --> 0:37:48.320
<v Speaker 1>direction and engineering from Nick Dooley. Our creative executive is

0:37:48.360 --> 0:37:52.320
<v Speaker 1>Brett Harris. Logo and branding by The Collected Works. Legal

0:37:52.360 --> 0:37:56.960
<v Speaker 1>review from Dan Welsh, Meghan Halson and Caroline Johnson. Special

0:37:57.040 --> 0:38:00.320
<v Speaker 1>thanks to Isaac Dunham, Adam Horn, Lane Klein and everyone

0:38:00.400 --> 0:38:05.400
<v Speaker 1>at iHeart Podcasts, but especially Will Pearson, Kerry Lieberman, Nikki Etor,

0:38:05.800 --> 0:38:10.200
<v Speaker 1>Nathan Otowski and Alex Corral. While I have you, don't

0:38:10.239 --> 0:38:13.399
<v Speaker 1>forget to pick up a copy of my book, Snaffoo,

0:38:13.440 --> 0:38:17.360
<v Speaker 1>The Definitive Guide to History's Greatest screw Ups. It's available

0:38:17.400 --> 0:38:21.680
<v Speaker 1>now from any book retailer. Just go to Snaffoo dashbook

0:38:21.920 --> 0:38:25.680
<v Speaker 1>dot com. Thanks for listening and see you next week.