1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:01,680 Speaker 1: Hold on, ed. 2 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 2: What you're trying to tell me is they made a 3 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 2: bunch of men share responsibility for power and it didn't 4 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 2: work out. They couldn't all just get along. And you know, 5 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 2: best idea wins. 6 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: Believe it or not. I mean, this is like the 7 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 1: one time a bunch of dudes like didn't get it right. 8 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 2: How do you say penis measuring contest in French? Do 9 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 2: you know? 10 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: Contest? Welcome to Snaffo, the Show about History's greatest screw ups. 11 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: I'm at Helms and today I am joined by the 12 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: Emmy and Peabody Award winning journalist, host of the iHeart podcast, 13 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: Good Game, all around sports fanatic. And also she's someone 14 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: who I recently met and just happened to adore. It 15 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: is the one and only Sarah Spain. 16 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 3: Thanks so much for having me and saying that that's 17 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 3: so nice. 18 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: Well right on, we hit it off. Yeah, we we 19 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: were both in Austin at south By Southwest for some 20 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: iHeart podcast fun and yeah, it was just fun to connect. 21 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:12,119 Speaker 1: Did you have a good time down there? 22 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 3: I did. 23 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 2: That was actually my first time at south By Southwest. 24 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 2: And I know that the iHeart treatment is not what 25 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 2: everyone gets because we were in that beautiful hotel and 26 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 2: never really had to leave. 27 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:23,279 Speaker 1: I just got to roll. 28 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 2: Out of bed, walk out into this beautiful yard, and 29 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 2: go to different parties for awesome people in their podcasts. 30 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 2: I know sometimes people have to actually go to I 31 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 2: think conference rooms and meeting areas and things like that. 32 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 2: We just got to hang out with cool people like you. 33 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,839 Speaker 1: And so I loved it at the Hotel Saint Cecilia, 34 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: which is, oh, what a gorgeous spot. So, Sarah, I 35 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: asked this, of all my guests on snapho, what is 36 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: this snaffhoo from your life? A personal snaphoo of some sort? 37 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 2: I will I will try to tell this story type 38 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: because it has many twists and turns, but I think 39 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 2: the payoff is worth it. 40 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 3: So let's just say I have terrible sets of direction. 41 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 2: And I am also a multitasker, which puts me in 42 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 2: the position where I'm leaving a physical therapy appointment that 43 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 2: is only about fifteen minutes away from my home. I 44 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 2: am trying to be on a conference call while driving 45 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:21,399 Speaker 2: while plugging into my GPS. The closest Mariano's grocery store 46 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 2: here in Chicago. I see one that pops up and 47 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 2: it says Ashland. I'm like, yep, that's the one near me. 48 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: I hit go. 49 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 3: I'm still taking the conference call. I start driving. 50 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,119 Speaker 2: I realize I've selected one that is not the one 51 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 2: that's near me. But since I'm driving and I don't 52 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 2: really have hands to plug it in again, I'm like, whatever, 53 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:38,679 Speaker 2: I'll just go to this when it can't be that far. 54 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 2: It's pretty far. The problem is that on the way there, 55 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 2: I acquire a flat tire. So I don't know this yet, 56 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 2: but I go into the grocery store. I buy all 57 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 2: my groceries. I put my credit card in the pocket 58 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 2: of my giant puffer coat and not where I normally 59 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 2: put it because my hands were full and I'm still 60 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 2: on the conference call. 61 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: That's a black hole a puffer code pocket, Yeah, get it. 62 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: And it was polar Vortex. 63 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 2: This was a couple of years ago in Chicago, where 64 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 2: we had multiple names for how cold it was in 65 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 2: Chicago Snopra, snowmaged, and polar vortex, et cetera. So I 66 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 2: go outside, discover the flat tire, don't have triple A anymore. 67 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: Call my husband, of course, he's who I call whenever 68 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 2: I screw things up. He plugs and he's like, oh 69 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 2: my god, why are you like thirty blocks south or 70 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 2: whatever it is. And I'm like, don't ask, just come 71 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 2: help me. Right, So this meantime snowballing, Yeah, well done. 72 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 2: So in the meantime, I've tried to go across the 73 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 2: way to an auto zone or something. Who can't help me, 74 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 2: which feels strange. It feels like the place that you 75 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 2: would go if you have an auto problem. 76 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: But no, right next to there is a party City. 77 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 2: So I'm like, I'll just pop into party City really 78 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 2: quick and walk around. While I'm waiting for my husband 79 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 2: to come fix the tire, I see a bunch of stuff. 80 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: I don't buy anything. 81 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 2: I use the bathroom, I come out, he fixes the tire, 82 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 2: and on the way home, I say, you'd be very 83 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 2: proud of me. I did not buy the football shaped 84 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 2: platter for the upcoming Super Bowl because I know we 85 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 2: have too much stuff, and he's like, hey, I'm proud 86 00:03:57,520 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 2: of You're always buying garbage. 87 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 3: We don't need fast forward. 88 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 2: We get near home, I walk down the street to 89 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 2: get us a sandwich and realize I don't have my 90 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 2: credit card, but I still have to go do my 91 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 2: live radio show. So while I am going home to 92 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,359 Speaker 2: get ready, my husband is graciously driving back to the 93 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 2: party city on the new tire we got to get 94 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 2: my credit card. 95 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 3: I go home, I start to prep for my show. 96 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 2: My dog comes out of a side room looking real weird, 97 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 2: and then he proceeds to vomit all over the brand 98 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 2: new carpet I just installed the day before, and it 99 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 2: was one of those things where he had a different 100 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 2: kind of accident and then ate it to clean it 101 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 2: up and then put both into the carpet, if that 102 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 2: makes any sense with that being too graphic. 103 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: So instead of cleaning it, oh this is bar and. 104 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, shit, vomit dookie in the same yep. So I 105 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 2: just roll up the rug and put it in the alley. 106 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 2: I don't care that I bought it the day before. 107 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 2: I'm not cleaning it. This is the worst day ever. 108 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 2: I literally just throw it in the alley. 109 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: Did the right thing. You did the right thing. 110 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 2: I go upstairs to host my show, and during a 111 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 2: commercial break, I get a text from my husband, got 112 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 2: your card, photo of him holding the credit card, and 113 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 2: the second photo is him holding a football platter that 114 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 2: he bought for me to make sure that my day improved. 115 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: Oh fabulous. That is not a snafoo. That is a 116 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: cascading sort of just a blender of snafoos all wrapped 117 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: up into one. 118 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 2: You will not be surprised to learn that that rug 119 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 2: was gone by the next day. You could put almost 120 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 2: anything in an alley in Chicago and someone will give 121 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 2: it a go. 122 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: Somebody took it put in their house and was like whoa, 123 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: and then put it in their alley and it's basically 124 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: just bouncing around apartments in Chicago. I do feel really 125 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: bad for whoever was like, well, free rug. Yeah, oh 126 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: my god. All right, well, let's get into today's snafoo. 127 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: This week's snafoo takes us back to one of the 128 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: most famous bad ideas in military history. It was bold, 129 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: it was brutal, and spoiler alert, it did not go 130 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,119 Speaker 1: as planned. But before we get into snowstorms and supply 131 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: chains and a very stubborn little general, we've got to 132 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 1: rewind a bit all the way back to seventeen eighty nine, 133 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 1: when one country decided enough of this damned monarchy and regime. 134 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: It is time for revolutionione. Can you guess, yes, yes, 135 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: we're talking about I took like seven years of high 136 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: school French or something like some crazy amount for seven years. Wow, 137 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: that explains a lot. I started in junior high. I 138 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: started junior high, then took it, took the French through 139 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: high school, and then I think it did a year 140 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: in college. All I got from it was this accent. 141 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: That's all I could do. It's pretty good. Did you 142 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: start with? 143 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 2: Because I think that's what everyone started with in junior 144 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 2: high French was the Tibaut family. 145 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: Oh does any even remember that? That means, oh great, 146 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: the puppet show. The Guinola is like a famous one 147 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: remembers that it's not a German for some reason. That's 148 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: not what you want when you're trying to speak French. 149 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: It's seventeen nineties in France and it was a wild time. 150 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: Guillotines heads rolling all over the place. Sorry not sorry, 151 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: lou the sixteenth and Marie Antoinette. It was a time 152 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: of mass bloodshed and became known as the Reign of Terror. 153 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: Over twenty thousand people were executed for things like being 154 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: anti revolutionary, or religious or just a little too fancy. 155 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: How do you think you do during the Reign of Terror? 156 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 3: I yes, I've thought about this many times. 157 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 2: I think I was born in a good time, seeing 158 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: as I am a very outspoken woman who does not 159 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 2: follow any guidance based on the lanes in which I 160 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 2: should inhabit or otherwise. So I think it would go 161 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 2: one of two ways. Either I would die almost immediately 162 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 2: upon being old enough to speak for myself, and they 163 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 2: would be like, Nope, she's going to be a problem 164 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 2: and I would be out. Or because I'm very tall 165 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 2: and athletic, I would be one of those women who 166 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,679 Speaker 2: who cosplayed as a man in order to both receive 167 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 2: great goods and wealth and also dominate some sort of 168 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 2: army or take some sort of leadership position where people 169 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 2: didn't realize that I was actually a lady. 170 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: I like that version, but I don't think you would 171 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: need to even pretend to be a man like I 172 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: feel like like Joan of arc was this was like 173 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: of this kind of ilk and oh, I feel like 174 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: the French get powerful. 175 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 2: Women, powerful women. Yeah, maybe I could just be one 176 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 2: for the history books. 177 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: Eventually, the chaos of late seventeen hundreds of France hit 178 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: a wall when Maximilian Robespierre, head revolutionary and chief vibe killer, 179 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: was executed in seventeen ninety four. The next year, France 180 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: handed the keys to the kingdom to a five person 181 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:50,719 Speaker 1: governing body called the Directory. It honestly sounds less like 182 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: a governing body and more like some horrific database in 183 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: which Mark Zuckerberg has collected all of our thoughts so 184 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: that he can finally control the world. 185 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, or potentially like a Soho house type spot in 186 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 2: New York that you have to pay a real big 187 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 2: sum of money to join, where you both learn your 188 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 2: advanced biometrics and what age you'll die and also get 189 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 2: to smoke cigars in. 190 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 3: A room that no one else is allowed in. 191 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that, and but also it's secretly a cult. 192 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: Have you joined the Directory? 193 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 3: Part of the Directory? 194 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: Are the Directory? 195 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 3: Or it sounds like Handmate's tale? 196 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, surprise, surprise. The Directory was a total mess, corruption, instability, 197 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: NonStop drums and eventually hold on ed. 198 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 2: What you're trying to tell me is they made a 199 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 2: bunch of men share responsibility for power and it didn't 200 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 2: work out. They couldn't all just get along and you know, 201 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: best idea wins. 202 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: Believe it or not. I mean, this is like the 203 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: one time a bunch of dudes like didn't get it right. 204 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 2: How do you say, penis measuring contest in French? 205 00:09:50,679 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: Do you know? Corruption? Instability? NonStop drums And eventually the 206 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: French public started craving some real leadership again. And that's 207 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: when a famously short, strategic, and wildly ambitious military man 208 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: entered the picture. And he guess who we're talking about? 209 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: Napoleon Bonaparte? Bonaparte, Napoleon. Why is it so fun to 210 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: do that accent? I hope it's not too offensive. It's 211 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: only an offensive. It's if it's a bad accent. I 212 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: have a very good accent. Right. 213 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 2: We're also running out of accents we can make fun 214 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 2: of without it being a problem, So I think we 215 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 2: got to hang on to make in fun of the French. 216 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: It's kind of sad that to a lot of Americans, 217 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: French people are basically the chef in Little Mermaid. Yeah yeah, yeah, 218 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: which is preposterous. Like can you. 219 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 2: Still sing any of that song? And do you have 220 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 2: the rights to sing it on this podcast? 221 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: Sacrab What is this? 222 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 3: So on earth? Could I miss such. 223 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: A such a sweet The most amazing thing about that 224 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: song is that they rhyme poisson with pant he goes 225 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: he he, that's the most French thing. Ever, that's a rhyme. 226 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 1: That's part of the lyrics. 227 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 3: Is I love that our brains will forever hang on 228 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 3: to that. 229 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 2: There's so many more useful things that should be lodged 230 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 2: up in there, but I will forever remember all the 231 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 2: lyrics to that. 232 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a couple of little kids, so it's 233 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: like still hitting me in the face constantly. So we're 234 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 1: talking about Napoleon Bonaparte. Born a commoner on the French 235 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 1: island of Corsica, Napoleon rose through the military ranks and 236 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: after saving the Directory's asses from a royalist insurrection, he 237 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: earned himself a cushy promotion to major general. But this 238 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: is France, right, so naturally there's another coup, and in 239 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,559 Speaker 1: seventeen ninety nine Napoleon overthrew the directory and put himself 240 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: in charge, introducing first Consul Napoleon Bonapaut. 241 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 3: Do you think it's a sign that France. 242 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 2: Has really nailed the coups because. 243 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: We haven't found our own word. 244 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 3: We just took theirs, because coup is a. 245 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 2: French word, right, and we were like, wow, they did 246 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 2: it so well, we don't need our own word for it. 247 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: I think they just had so many of them that 248 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: the word was used so constantly and exactly it's their brand. 249 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: It's like the French brand to have comment overthrow. 250 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. 251 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:20,199 Speaker 1: So, once Napoleon took charge, he basically Marie condoed France, 252 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: cleaned house, reorganized everything. You know, if it didn't spark joy, 253 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: it was out of there. Brought some much needed structure 254 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: to the post revolution chaos. He revamped education, tried to 255 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: set up a meritocracy, and made the country feel like 256 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: it was finally in grown up hands. And he was 257 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: also out there crushing it on the battlefield. He was 258 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: winning wars all over Europe. Of course, all this victory 259 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: was going straight to his head. His ego was getting 260 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: bigger than a French aristocrat's wig. Come on, solid joke. 261 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 3: It's pretty good. Are you making fun of him at 262 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 3: different turns? 263 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,079 Speaker 2: When you said he rose, which would be tough for 264 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 2: him because even when standing up it looked like he 265 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 2: was sitting and in big hands, but probably quite small 266 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 2: because he was. 267 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 1: Known for being a tony man delivered jokes. Okay, well, 268 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: believe it or not. Yeah, So basically what's happening here 269 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: is that he is just like running rough shot all 270 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: over Europe. The napoleonic wars are going on, and he's 271 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:21,319 Speaker 1: just kicking ass and he's winning, and he's like getting 272 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: this bigger and bigger ego, and of course that in 273 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: classic snap foop form would wind up badly compromising his judgment. 274 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: Where's the line between confidence and full blown delusion? Have 275 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 1: you seen ego backfire like in the sports world, Yeah, 276 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: for sure. 277 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 2: True confidence actually usually manifests in someone who is much 278 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 2: more laid back and wants to uplift others and put 279 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 2: them in positions of power and empower them to be 280 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 2: a part of decision making. Narcissistic insecurity is usually the 281 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 2: kind of ego power trip that results in a dictatorial leader, 282 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 2: a boss who's an a hole, or a player who 283 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 2: is you know, too diva like in their tendencies and 284 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 2: doesn't know how to incorporate the rest of their teammates. 285 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 2: I think famously Michael Jordan was one who I don't 286 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 2: know if it was ego so much as it was 287 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 2: just an understanding of his own super heroic powers. But 288 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 2: he had to be convinced to embrace an offense that 289 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 2: would bring in his teammates, understanding that he was still 290 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 2: going to be the main target. But in order for 291 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 2: him to get the ball and shoot it, they needed 292 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 2: to make everybody else be a threat as well. And 293 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 2: so that flip from perhaps a little bit too egocentric 294 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 2: to team player was really what opened up his greatness. 295 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 2: So I think you can usually tell when somebody is 296 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 2: a real leader. 297 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: I think that's the phrase. 298 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 2: Leaders don't create followers, Followers make leaders. 299 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: Oh I like that. All right, let's get back to 300 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: mister Napoleon. He was getting a little too big for 301 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: his cute little white britches, and he started he did 302 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: it again. Yeah, that one was deliberate, you're right, okay, 303 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: and he started forcing France's allies into a strict economic 304 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: boycott of Great Britain. Most went along with this, but 305 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: there was one holdout, one stick in the mud, and 306 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: that was Russia. Napoleon did not think that that was 307 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: very bomp. So guess what he did. What do you 308 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: do when another country pisses you off? Tariffs? Good answer, 309 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: you're not correct. You just invade you're pissed off in 310 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: another country, you invade them. It's June eighteen twelve, and 311 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: Napoleon is really feeling himself a big time. He's giving 312 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: major I alone can fix this vibes. And he's got 313 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: the largest army Europe has ever seen, six hundred and 314 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: fifty thousand troops. And that's not even counting all the 315 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: mimes who are just pretending to be troops. 316 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 2: Come on, and all the bakers that made the baguettes 317 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 2: for the troops every morning. Yeah, we're courced into battle 318 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 2: with begets a sore. It's when things went awry. 319 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: A stale bagette is a that is a weapon for sure, 320 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: hard as hell. Yeah, you can't break it tooth, you 321 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: can't eat it. You're going to use it on the 322 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: battlefield for sure. 323 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 2: Can I ask you an honest question, ed, how many 324 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 2: guests do you have on this podcast who are listening 325 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 2: along and you could tell by their face that they 326 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 2: recognize all the dates and names you're saying, and then 327 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 2: suddenly realized they retained nothing from school. And while they've 328 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 2: heard of Robes Pierre and they believe eighteen twelve to 329 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 2: be a pretty big year. 330 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 3: For some stuff. 331 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 2: Couple, if you made them take a quiz right now, 332 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 2: they'd be like, not entirely sure what happened. Honestly, Marie 333 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 2: Antoinette definitely got her head cut off. 334 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: I remember that. It doesn't it doesn't matter, like we're 335 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: that's what I'm here for. We're just hanging out, enjoying 336 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: it together. And some of these things, like you know, 337 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: I dip into them as like new research projects from 338 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: like episode to episode. But I don't retain stuff either. 339 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 2: No, I was gonna say, if we learned one thing 340 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 2: from history, it's that we don't remember history. 341 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, So with all this military might, Napoleon's like, it's 342 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: time to teach Russia a lesson. He's fully convinced they're 343 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: a total mess. They're disorganized, underprepared, and just not at 344 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: all at his level. And he even claims publicly that 345 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 1: this whole thing will be wrapped up in twenty days, 346 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: which spoiler alert, might be the mother of all jinxes. 347 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: I'm curious. You're an athlete, you cover sports, Like, do 348 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: you believe in superstitions and jinxes? Streaks, hot streaks, all 349 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. 350 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 2: I don't believe in superstitions, Like, oh, if you sat 351 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 2: on the couch in this one specific spot wearing this 352 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 2: one specific shirt in your team one, if you change 353 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 2: that up, they're going to lose. I think the average 354 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 2: fan has absolutely no import on the outcome. But there's 355 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 2: a guy named Ben Cohen who wrote a book called 356 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 2: The Hot Hand, and he actually dove into the concept 357 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 2: of whether an athlete is essentially better in the middle 358 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 2: of having like the hot hand and the NBA. 359 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 1: Jam if you will, he's on fire. 360 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 2: If there's actually such a thing and it's a really 361 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 2: complicated and fascinating look at, like the parts that feel 362 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 2: like it's a very clear thing, you're almost in flow state, sure, 363 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 2: which most creative types understand, versus whether it's simply about 364 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 2: confidence mixed with a trained body. 365 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 3: Right, if you have enough messile memory to remember. 366 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 2: The thing you're supposed to be doing, and you can 367 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 2: get so in the flow state and so confident that 368 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 2: you're not overthinking anything, you just naturally do the thing 369 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 2: successfully over and over again, which then becomes like you're 370 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 2: on fire or you're in the zone. So I believe 371 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 2: in it for the athlete. I do not believe in 372 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:38,360 Speaker 2: it for the fan. 373 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: I still feel like if I wear the wrong color socks, 374 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 1: the Dodgers will lose, so well. 375 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,160 Speaker 3: Keep wearing them then, because I'm a Cubs fan. 376 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 1: French troops moved into Russia. Russian general has deployed a 377 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: very interesting strategy. Instead of standing their ground, they just 378 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: kept retreating again and again, letting Napoleon's troop chase them 379 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 1: deeper and deeper into Russian territory. Why would they do this? 380 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 1: This seems insane, right, Well, it was actually quite savvy 381 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: because the French were burning through their supplies, getting farther 382 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,360 Speaker 1: and farther from their reinforcements, and despite the crushing heat 383 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: and endless mud and tons of disease ravaging all the troops, 384 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: they kept marching like they took the bait. They just 385 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: kept going straight into Russia. Cue the dramatic music. Because 386 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: this was all a trap. The Russian army was employing 387 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: what is known as a scorched earth strategy, meaning they 388 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: would burn down their own towns and torch all of 389 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: their own supplies as they retreated, basically saying, if we 390 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 1: began to have it to neither can you? Oh no way, 391 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: they're Russian. I can't do a Russian accent. It's very smart. 392 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I mean it's terrible, but it's brutal 393 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: but shrewd. So this scorched earth policy basically meant that 394 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: Napoleon's army couldn't live off local food stores and supplies, 395 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: which would be the typical practice of invading army. 396 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 3: And be stroganoffs and such. 397 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: Of course, and they really couldn't do anything except keep marching, 398 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 1: exhausted and starving deeper and deeper into what was quickly 399 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: becoming a hellscape. Now you've been around a lot of competition. 400 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: What's more valuable brute strength or sound strategy? How do 401 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: you find that balance? 402 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 2: Well, Actually, something I learned in laser tag is you 403 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 2: have to have the upper ground. The most important thing 404 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 2: out of the three is you have to have the 405 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 2: upper ground so that you could see down upon your enemy, 406 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,719 Speaker 2: and your strategy improves because you're able to see them 407 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 2: and often they can't see you. 408 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: Okay, laser tag, In laser. 409 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 2: Tag or in life, once you've established the higher ground. 410 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 2: I am way more into strategy than brute strength. I 411 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 2: believe there's a time and place like a bar fight 412 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 2: where brute strength will likely win, and everywhere else where 413 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 2: strategicy is involved. 414 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 3: I think it's more about the brain. Yeah, brains over brawn. 415 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: I think you're right. And I say that because I'm 416 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 1: a weakling and I like to think I could persevere 417 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,959 Speaker 1: in a tough situation Now, despite numerous what we can 418 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: only imagine to be stern warnings from many of his 419 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: top advisers about turning around, Napoleon was convinced that he 420 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: could lead the French army to victory in Moscow. He 421 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: was all in on chasing this glory. At one point 422 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 1: he nearly caught the Russians at the city of Smolensk, 423 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: but instead of pressing his advantage, he paused the march 424 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: on what happened to be his forty third birthday. Because 425 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: nothing says military genius like taking a personal day during 426 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: a war. I would presume Champagne was involved, though, right, 427 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: I guess right. I mean, it is weird how well 428 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: the officers lived right in these on these like like 429 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 1: they had like these incredible tents with furniture and butlers 430 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 1: and servants and all kinds of stuff. 431 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 2: There's a famous Napoleon Champagne quote in victory you deserve it, 432 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 2: and loss you need it. 433 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 1: Oh interesting, So it's kind of like just always have 434 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: it on hand, there you go. 435 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe you might have been the originator of 436 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 2: the sabering. 437 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: Oh that would be saying, you know, a Champagne saber. 438 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I've done it. Yeah, me too. 439 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 2: I think it's tied back to Napoleon and his thoughts 440 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 2: on Champagne. 441 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 3: Don't quote me on that, but that's something I've been to. 442 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: I like that. The only downside of this birthday party 443 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: is that the party favors were lice and typhus, which 444 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 1: is a horrible disease spread by lice. Oh oh no, oh. Yeah. 445 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: This army was really really bit draggled at this point, 446 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: so we're settling into a cycle here, chase, scorch repeat. 447 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: But there was one proper showdown, and that was on 448 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: September seventh, eighteen twelve, at the Battle of Borodino. It 449 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 1: was brutal. Both sides took massive casualties, but the Russians 450 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: had the edge. They were closer to home and could 451 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: rebuild faster. Napoleon's army not so much. This raises a 452 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: good question home field advantage. Is it always an advantage 453 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 1: or is it sometimes a liability. 454 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 3: I would say it's always an advantage. 455 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think it's always going to tip the scales, 456 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 2: but I would say it's arguably almost never a disadvantage. 457 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 2: Although I can think of a couple places where the 458 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 2: ownership was so hated that being at home and still 459 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 2: being showered with booze and rage over the decision making 460 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 2: of your front office, GM, president, etc. Might be more 461 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 2: frustrating than just being on the road and accepting that 462 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:31,880 Speaker 2: the opposing team's fans will hate you. But I think 463 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 2: for the most part, knowing you came from your house 464 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:35,920 Speaker 2: and you're going back to it, you know, the lay 465 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,479 Speaker 2: of the land, all that stuff, maybe you get some 466 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 2: hometown whistles because the fans are subconsciously affecting the officiating. 467 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 3: Usually a good thing. 468 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I would think that that just roar of 469 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: a hometown crowd is going to give you so much adrenaline. 470 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 1: But at the same time, I could see how like 471 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 1: going into the sort of den of the enemy could 472 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: also be like kind of like rage inducing in a 473 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 1: powerful way and in a maybe an inspiring way. Napoleon 474 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: finally made it to Moscow on September fourteenth. Victory, right, 475 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 1: I mean, it's the capital city of Russia. He took 476 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: the capital that's got that should be it like game over. 477 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: Not quite. Napoleon believed capturing Moscow would force Czar Alexander 478 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: to seek peace, as had occurred with all of the 479 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: other European capitals he had invaded. However, he massively underestimated 480 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 1: the Russians resolve and their flare for strategic nihilism. When 481 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:47,479 Speaker 1: Napoleon's battered troops entered the city, it was a smoldering husk. 482 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: Russian forces had completely torched it their own capital city. 483 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: On the way out, civilians had fled. Supplies were nearly 484 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,880 Speaker 1: non existent, no food, no shelter, and not even any 485 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: officials to negotiate with. And to top it off, the 486 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: legendary Russian winter was fast approaching. 487 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 2: Oh, this is like when you played the Packers in December. Yes, 488 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 2: you just you know, if you know that you've got 489 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 2: an extra man on your side and it's the hail 490 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 2: and sleet and you're the Packers and conditions at Lambeau. Yeah, Yeah, 491 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,920 Speaker 2: invited the Chicago Bears over and then just left him there. 492 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,679 Speaker 1: They got old man Winter on their side. Yeah, exactly. Oh, man, 493 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 1: that's a great way to think about it. Things are dire, 494 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: but Napoleon is still convinced he just won the war, 495 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: so he sends Czar Alexander a letter politely requesting his surrender. Now, 496 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: to be fair, eighteenth century military etiquette did allow for 497 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: this kind of thing. But after five freezing, miserable weeks 498 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: with no response, it became clear Napoleon was just being 499 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: ghosted like hard and the worst part, he had absolutely 500 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: no leverage left this. He's like, I took your capital, 501 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,880 Speaker 1: I won, and the Russians were just like, sh don't 502 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:09,679 Speaker 1: pay him any attention. He'll leave, And they're right. That 503 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: is incredible. 504 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 2: You would never imagine that the goal would be to 505 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 2: trash your own place and just retreat, retreat, retreat. 506 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 3: Run away, run away, as. 507 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 2: They said Monty Python, and then it would work because 508 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 2: you don't even consider the fact that the opposing side 509 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 2: doesn't have any backups. 510 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: It's weirdly nihilistic to torch your own city, but they 511 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: saved their city by doing that. Weirdly, of course, they 512 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,880 Speaker 1: had to rebuild, but they it was still theirs. Because finally, 513 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: with no food, no shelter, and by the way, fresh 514 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: whispers of yet another coup brewing back home, Napoleon had 515 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: no choice. In mid October, with the first snow starting 516 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 1: to fall, he ordered the retreat. 517 00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:00,439 Speaker 2: Wow, great timing, having gained nothing nothing, having one nothing 518 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,399 Speaker 2: gained nothing other than I guess a big chunk of 519 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 2: Russia is now ash right, they did achieve burning down 520 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 2: a significant number of cities and towns and a big, 521 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 2: a big city center in Moscow. 522 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: But they weren't able to claim didn't claim anything. Yeah, 523 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: it was it was a total loss. And as we'll 524 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 1: soon do you think you. 525 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 2: Went back and said it was a complete and total obliteration. 526 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 2: And then his his people were like, I don't know the. 527 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: Journalists of the well we cover Yeah, we had some 528 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: reporters there. Story, my friend. So what was left of 529 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: the French army, which they lost so many people. We'll 530 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: get to the numbers shortly. But what was left of 531 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,120 Speaker 1: the army limped away towards the border and finally made 532 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 1: it out of Russia in late December of eighteen twelve. 533 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,240 Speaker 1: But at this point Napoleon wasn't even with them. He 534 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: had actually abandoned his troops to rush back to Paris 535 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: on December fifth, not because he left the oven on, 536 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: but because those coup rumors were really heating up. Now 537 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: there was actually a coup brewing, and it was quashed 538 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: pretty quickly. Still, what kind of coach leaves his players 539 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 1: in the dust like that. 540 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 2: There's an NFL player who retired at halftime. 541 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,400 Speaker 3: No, it was not an important game. 542 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: It was just a regular season game. 543 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 2: But at halftime he was like, yep, think that's about 544 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 2: it for me. What Vonte Davis, Vonte Davis. 545 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: That's intense. Well, this was, needless to say, a brutal escapade. 546 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: Let's review the numbers here. Napoleon had marched into Russia 547 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: with over six hundred thousand troops fewer than one hundred thousand. 548 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: Made it out not good, not a good look, and 549 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: after this the dominoes started to fall pretty fast. Napoleon's 550 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: aura of invincibility was shattered and his enemies pounced. By 551 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: eight fourteen, a coalition of major European powers, including Austria, Prussia, Russia, 552 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: Britain and others, defeated him and sent him into exile 553 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: on the island of Elba, which is kind of a 554 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: beautiful island in the Mediterranean, so sounds nice. Yeah, But 555 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: Napoleon wasn't done yet. Less than a year later, he 556 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: pulled the ultimate surprise bitch and escaped for a brief, 557 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: chaotic comeback known as the one Hundred Days. This ended 558 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: at the famous Battle of Waterloo, where he was trounced 559 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: again and sent packing again, this time to Saint Helena, 560 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: which is an extremely remote island way off in the 561 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: South Atlantic. They learned their lesson, like, we're not gonna 562 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 1: put him in just like a nice fancy place. Were 563 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,719 Speaker 1: sent him way the hell away. Meanwhile, the rest of Europe, 564 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: traumatized by Napoleon's entire vibe, held the Congress of Vienna 565 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: to redraw the map, restore monarchies, and basically agree let's 566 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: never do that again. Napoleon then died in exile in 567 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: eighteen twenty one, presumably still wearing that awesome hat, and 568 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: Europe found a balance. Napoleon's dead. Wow, yeah, oh yeah, No, 569 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: he's dead. He didn't make it. He died. 570 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 3: Should put that at the beginning of the episode. 571 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: He was still a young man. 572 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 3: We haven't watched history yet. 573 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: I think he was in his fifties. He was like 574 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: fifty one or something. Yeah. Evidently when he went to 575 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: Saint Helena, his health declined pretty rapidly, in part because 576 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: it's thought he was such this grand personality and now 577 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: he was just confined to this remote place with very 578 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: little going on, and he became depressed and reclusive and 579 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: his health declined. 580 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 2: Kind of a broken heart Wow. Yes, so I would 581 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 2: have guessed gout. Yeah, to be honest, I would have 582 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 2: guessed gout. 583 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: But he died of champagne poisoning. What a shame. Yeah. 584 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 2: Do you know how you get gout? It's literally too 585 00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 2: much alcohol and rich foods. 586 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. 587 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 2: I have a friend who got it in college from 588 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 2: being a sorority sister. 589 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: Yikes. But it's also a genetic thing, like you have 590 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: a genetic predisposition for gout. 591 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 2: Sure, but we'll never stop making fun of her forgetting 592 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 2: the gout in college. 593 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you know Judah Friedlander, the comedian. He's so amazing. 594 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: I've known him from way back doing stand up in 595 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: New York, like in the nineties, and I remember he 596 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: got out and he talked about it on stage. You 597 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,959 Speaker 1: talk about how it's like your toe becomes like a 598 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: Fred Flintstone toe. It looks like you, it looks like 599 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: you dropped a rock on your toe in a Flintstones cartoon. 600 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: And it's now like wah wah, like a red bull pulsating. 601 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: Like that's how badly it hurts. Yeah. Anyway, so Europe 602 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: found a balance of power that was actually pretty rock 603 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: steady until a certain World war broke out in nineteen fourteen. 604 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: But that is a story for another snapoo day, and 605 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: that Sarah Spain, that is our snapfhoo for today. What 606 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: did you learn any takeaways from Napoleon's disasters and of Russia? 607 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 2: I mean, one of the things I learned was that 608 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 2: there was more strategy even in the days of that 609 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 2: kind of town torching battle. 610 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm impressed by. 611 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 2: The Russians, which feels like a strange thing to say 612 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 2: right now, but truly good plan, well executed. 613 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: Yeah about a five stars Russia. Yeah, And if there's 614 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: any lesson for Napoleon here, it's like, I mean, I 615 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: feel like Kenny Rodgers said it best right. You got 616 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: to know when to hold them, no, when to fold them, no, 617 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: whe to walk away, no, when to run. He should 618 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: have he should have just thrown in the towel there, 619 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,239 Speaker 1: and I completely agree. Unfortunately, this is a vibe we 620 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: still see a lot of today leaders doubling down instead 621 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: of backing off, mistaking stubbornness for strength. We have tech 622 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: CEOs telling us that AI is going to save us. Meanwhile, 623 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: it's really starting to feel like the fast tract of 624 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: full on dystopia. 625 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 2: I think the thing we started with at the beginning 626 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 2: the directory. The idea of co leading is something that 627 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 2: should be getting a lot more attention in many spaces 628 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 2: of late, because it prevents that one egotistical, dictatorial person 629 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 2: who will not stop themselves from being checked. And I 630 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 2: think in a lot of business and corporate spaces there 631 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 2: is a push for the kind of leadership that co 632 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 2: leadership would embrace. Which is best idea wins bring everyone together, 633 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 2: utilize the strengths of all the different people, elevate the 634 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 2: people beneath you, empower them to make great decisions and 635 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 2: do things instead of the sort of. 636 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: Micromanaging of one person. 637 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 2: Who needs to double check everything and sign off on everything, 638 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 2: which is a complete waste of time, completely ineffective, and 639 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 2: empowers one person to believe that the reason for all 640 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 2: the success, And that's how you end up like Napoleon, 641 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 2: where you've now convinced yourself you're so great that every 642 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 2: decision you're making must be the right one. Every decision 643 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 2: you make going forward must be followed. But no matter 644 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 2: whether someone is telling you, hey, maybe there's a reason 645 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 2: all these towns are already. 646 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 3: Torched by the time we get to them. 647 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,240 Speaker 1: Exactly you think they've got a plan. Amen, very well, 648 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: said Sarah Spain. You just put a book out. Congratulations, 649 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 1: in addition to your amazing podcast All about Sports, tell 650 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: us about Good Game first. 651 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, so Good Game with Sarah Spain is the first 652 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 2: and only, as far as we know, daily women's sports podcast. 653 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: Yes, daily. 654 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 2: It is a lot of work, but it is what 655 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 2: was necessary. The folks who started the iHeart Women's Sports 656 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 2: Network reached out and one of them was Sue Bird. 657 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 2: And you can't say no to Sup Bird about really anything, 658 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 2: because she's a legend. But when she said, we want 659 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 2: you to do a show for the network, what would 660 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 2: it look like? And I had just gotten out of 661 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 2: thirteen straight years of daily radio for ESPN. I was 662 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 2: enjoying my first year of not having a show every day, 663 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,840 Speaker 2: and I stupidly said, it's. 664 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,879 Speaker 3: Got to be a daily show because that's what's miss Ailey. 665 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 2: Because in women's sports, you really you just need the 666 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 2: same cadence of learning about the star stak stats and 667 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 2: stories that are out there so that you get excited 668 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 2: about the games and want to watch them and attend 669 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 2: them and buy the merchant. So we're offering that to people, 670 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 2: and people seem to love it, which is great. 671 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: That's awesome. So you have a book. You just put 672 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: a book out called Runs in the Family, an incredible 673 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,360 Speaker 1: true story of football, fatherhood and belonging. Give me the 674 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 1: quick like breakdown. 675 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 2: Well, I wanted to be like you, So I wrote 676 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 2: it all in the two weeks between when your book 677 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 2: came out and mine came out. 678 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 3: Can you believe it so fast? 679 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 2: No? So I wrote a story for ESPN and did 680 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,760 Speaker 2: a feature for ESPN a handful of years ago about 681 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 2: this guy, Dylan McCullough. He's the running backs coach for 682 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 2: the Las Vegas Raiders and grew up in Youngstown post 683 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 2: steel milk collapse, was adopted, never knew his birth family. 684 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 2: His adoptive dad leaves when he's two, so sort of 685 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 2: a troubled relationship with father, figures, gets into football, gets recruited, 686 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 2: has a great career until he gets knee injury and 687 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 2: becomes a coach, and finally, in his forties, the lost 688 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,399 Speaker 2: change in Pennsylvania, where he was born, he can get 689 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 2: his birth certificate, and he discovers after finding his mom, 690 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 2: who never told the dad that she had gotten pregnant, 691 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 2: was sent. 692 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 3: Away to have the baby in private. 693 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 2: Like they used to do in the seventies, finds out 694 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,279 Speaker 2: that his college football coach and mentor of almost thirty 695 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 2: years was his birth dad all along and neither of 696 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 2: them knew it. 697 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: Oh my god. 698 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 3: So it's this really unbelievable story. 699 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 2: But also there's a ton in there about nature versus nurture, 700 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 2: what we inherit through blood and DNA, what we inherit 701 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 2: through family systems, emotional DNA messages, lessons, all the things. 702 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 2: And so I really wanted to be a book about 703 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 2: him because his story is so incredible, but also a 704 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 2: book that anyone would read and think to themselves, like, 705 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 2: what are the refutable things that I've been passed on 706 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 2: that I can't reject or deny? And what are the 707 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 2: things I get to choose to hang on to or 708 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:52,200 Speaker 2: pass on. 709 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: I can't wait to read this. It really really sounds 710 00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:03,759 Speaker 1: insanely inspiring and caract right. Thank you, Nail. It's hard. Yeah, 711 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: Oh that's awesome. Thank you so much for coming on, Snaffoo. 712 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,400 Speaker 1: It has been an absolute pleasure. 713 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. 714 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:11,720 Speaker 1: It was really fun. 715 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 2: I actually do feel like I was in history class, 716 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 2: but with more cool Internet terms of phrase. 717 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,760 Speaker 1: Snappho is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Snapfoo Media, 718 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 1: a partnership between Film Nation Entertainment and Pacific Electric Picture Company. 719 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,160 Speaker 1: Our post production studio is Gilded Audio. Our executive producers 720 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: are me Ed Helms, Mike Falbo, Glenn Basner, Andy Kim Whitney, Donaldson, 721 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 1: and Dylan Fagan. This episode was produced by Alyssa Martino 722 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: and Tory Smith. Our video editor is Jared Smith. Technical 723 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,320 Speaker 1: direction and engineering from Nick Dooley. Our creative executive is 724 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:52,320 Speaker 1: Brett Harris. Logo and branding by The Collected Works. Legal 725 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 1: review from Dan Welsh, Meghan Halson and Caroline Johnson. Special 726 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,320 Speaker 1: thanks to Isaac Dunham, Adam Horn, Lane Klein and everyone 727 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 1: at iHeart Podcasts, but especially Will Pearson, Kerry Lieberman, Nikki Etor, 728 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 1: Nathan Otowski and Alex Corral. While I have you, don't 729 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,399 Speaker 1: forget to pick up a copy of my book, Snaffoo, 730 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,360 Speaker 1: The Definitive Guide to History's Greatest screw Ups. It's available 731 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: now from any book retailer. Just go to Snaffoo dashbook 732 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 1: dot com. Thanks for listening and see you next week.