1
00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:03,200
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to cool people who did cool stuff,

2
00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,760
Speaker 1: your weekly reminder to throw potatoes at Nazis and or

3
00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:09,840
Speaker 1: the police protecting Nazis as long as you're talking about

4
00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:15,760
Speaker 1: a fantasy land like the United Kingdom. I'm Mario Kiljoy,

5
00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,560
Speaker 1: your host, and my guest is James stout Hy.

6
00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:20,279
Speaker 2: James Hi Margaret.

7
00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,240
Speaker 1: Sophie is our producer. How are you doing, Sophie, I'm good.

8
00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:30,360
Speaker 3: I have my bubbly bubbly five calorie water beverage with

9
00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:32,680
Speaker 3: hint of pineapple and it just feels right.

10
00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:38,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, trumpet, you're drinking still water like a I'm spinning

11
00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:38,960
Speaker 1: the difference.

12
00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:40,800
Speaker 2: I have bubbly water with no pineapple.

13
00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,560
Speaker 1: All right. We have all the different types of water,

14
00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,800
Speaker 1: and that's what matters, the solidarity between water types, much

15
00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:49,919
Speaker 1: like today's story of solidarity. Oh, I've got the rest

16
00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,440
Speaker 1: of the credits. Ian is our audio engineer, hi Ian

17
00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:58,800
Speaker 1: Hi Ian hi In, and unwoman did our theme music.

18
00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,040
Speaker 1: And then this is part two, and especially like it's

19
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:03,640
Speaker 1: the always the you better go back and listen to

20
00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:05,600
Speaker 1: part one, but this one in particular, like we're just

21
00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:07,560
Speaker 1: gonna drop you in the middle of something, so you

22
00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,280
Speaker 1: should go back and listen to part one. But today

23
00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:13,000
Speaker 1: where we last left our heroes, who, in this case

24
00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:17,640
Speaker 1: are the overwhelming majority of working class Londoners who hate fascists.

25
00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:20,959
Speaker 1: They've just been told by the powers that be that

26
00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,880
Speaker 1: the supposedly progressive voices to just let the fascists march.

27
00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:30,720
Speaker 1: Our heroes did not agree, so the counter organizers, they

28
00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:32,800
Speaker 1: really tried to do things the right way. The Jewish

29
00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,360
Speaker 1: People's Counsel Against Fascism and Anti Semitism circulated petition. They

30
00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,720
Speaker 1: got one hundred thousand signatories again and including like all

31
00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,200
Speaker 1: of the mayors or four of the mayors or five

32
00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:44,760
Speaker 1: of the mayors. I don't know how many mayors are

33
00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,360
Speaker 1: in the East End. I'm running into conflicting information about

34
00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:51,680
Speaker 1: that again. Too many mayors. It's supposed to be one

35
00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:52,160
Speaker 1: per town.

36
00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:57,000
Speaker 2: Well I think many mayors is better than one mayre, right, Like,

37
00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,360
Speaker 2: you know what to concentrate authority in one? Could we

38
00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,880
Speaker 2: have one Marie Diego and he fucking sucks? Okay, okay,

39
00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,600
Speaker 2: I would rather have many mays What if we're all

40
00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:06,040
Speaker 2: the mayor?

41
00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:07,840
Speaker 3: I like the town with the dog mare.

42
00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,600
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, let's do that Anderson for mayor.

43
00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:16,200
Speaker 1: Let's combine it a Council of Dogmares perfect nailed it?

44
00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:18,919
Speaker 1: Or what if your mayor was a mayor?

45
00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:23,680
Speaker 2: Oh fantastic? Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, I love that.

46
00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:29,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, better than a night. Okay, So they tried to

47
00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,760
Speaker 1: do the right thing. They got one hundred thousand signatories,

48
00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:33,120
Speaker 1: which is a lot of fucking people.

49
00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially back then.

50
00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:37,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I did look it up. The population of

51
00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,480
Speaker 1: London was larger in nineteen thirty six than it is currently.

52
00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,640
Speaker 1: The population of London like went down real hard and

53
00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,480
Speaker 1: has only recently come back up.

54
00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:46,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

55
00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,800
Speaker 1: Now, if don't know anything about that, you.

56
00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,239
Speaker 2: I'm guessing, like I mean it, being bombed quite a

57
00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,160
Speaker 2: lot in this subsequent decade probably didn't help. But then

58
00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:01,359
Speaker 2: I know, after that, really there was a lot of

59
00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,520
Speaker 2: flight from urban airs and Britain. Urban areas in Britain

60
00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:09,320
Speaker 2: look or really poorly mismanaged and underfundedge and really not

61
00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,239
Speaker 2: well looked after. It's especially obviously working class, hearing urban

62
00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,359
Speaker 2: areas is what I'm talking about here. So you had

63
00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,480
Speaker 2: that kind of classic Boichois white flight situation.

64
00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:24,560
Speaker 1: Okay, So one hundred thousand people and I think mostly

65
00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,320
Speaker 1: east Enders, which is a huge portion of the East End,

66
00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,240
Speaker 1: which is like three hundred thousand people total or something

67
00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,240
Speaker 1: at this time. They all sign on, but John Simon,

68
00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,880
Speaker 1: the Home Secretary, who is sometimes referred to as like

69
00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,320
Speaker 1: by his like full weird British titles like Sir something

70
00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:39,720
Speaker 1: and something.

71
00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,400
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, you're going to hit us with the full Yeah.

72
00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:45,800
Speaker 1: And I think maybe like different sources depending on if

73
00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,200
Speaker 1: they're like more conservative and more progressive, like choose to

74
00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,840
Speaker 1: give the different things, Yeah, definitely, but either way he

75
00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,600
Speaker 1: refuses to ban the march. His quote about it is

76
00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,640
Speaker 1: basically like, I'm not a dictator, right, but it's actually

77
00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,119
Speaker 1: that like I just like them. Yeah, that's that's way

78
00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,400
Speaker 1: more because you know, from my point of view, governments

79
00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,280
Speaker 1: probably shouldn't crack down a free speech and assembly as governments, right.

80
00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,320
Speaker 1: But then he was like, well what if instead seven

81
00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,040
Speaker 1: thousand cops defend the fascists.

82
00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's such a step further, isn't it. That's well

83
00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:17,560
Speaker 2: the same thing.

84
00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,159
Speaker 1: And then to take it even one more step further

85
00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,919
Speaker 1: for mister I'm not a dictator, this grand gester of

86
00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,560
Speaker 1: free speech in the part of the government. Well earlier

87
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,640
Speaker 1: a group called the Ex Serviceman's Anti Fascist Association had

88
00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:35,040
Speaker 1: already gotten the permit to march that in that area

89
00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:39,120
Speaker 1: on that day, the cops pulled their permit and told

90
00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,600
Speaker 1: them they weren't allowed to anymore because the fascists were

91
00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,960
Speaker 1: more important. Yeah, which is the yeah, odacious move on

92
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,920
Speaker 1: that pot. Yeah, and they cops brought literally more cops

93
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,279
Speaker 1: than could be brought from just London in the end,

94
00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,480
Speaker 1: so cops came from all over the region, maybe possibly

95
00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,000
Speaker 1: a over the country, but I'm not sure. In the end,

96
00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,680
Speaker 1: actually fascist cops and anti fascists came in from around

97
00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,120
Speaker 1: the country, although again buying large. Anti fascists skewed local,

98
00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:09,279
Speaker 1: like way higher percentage than the other ones. So a

99
00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,800
Speaker 1: ton of cops are going to go protect the march. Fortunately,

100
00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,239
Speaker 1: you're going to be so relieved there's this big communist party.

101
00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:18,560
Speaker 1: They're going to be on top of organizing against the fascists.

102
00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,840
Speaker 1: They've got nine months and that's like their whole deal, right, Yeah, yeah, great,

103
00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,120
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see what they do. Well mm hmm.

104
00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:28,239
Speaker 1: The higher ups have a different idea.

105
00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,080
Speaker 2: Oh oh yeah, what what's the idea?

106
00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,160
Speaker 1: Their idea is to cozy up to the political establishment

107
00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:33,640
Speaker 1: at the time.

108
00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,920
Speaker 2: That's disappointing, isn't it. That's a real shame. Yeah.

109
00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, they wanted to form a popular Front government like

110
00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,800
Speaker 1: friends in Spain. So they actually called for a different

111
00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:49,000
Speaker 1: rally the same day at Trafalgar Square to keep people

112
00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,080
Speaker 1: from going to fight the fascists. And it was this

113
00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:53,719
Speaker 1: is really annoying because it was a rally for a

114
00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:55,640
Speaker 1: good cause. It was to show support and raise money

115
00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,320
Speaker 1: for the Spanish Republic and fight against fascism.

116
00:05:58,360 --> 00:05:58,480
Speaker 2: Hm.

117
00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,159
Speaker 1: But they sent out a bunch of commands their rank

118
00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,360
Speaker 1: and file to basically be like, you have to let

119
00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:04,239
Speaker 1: the fascist march.

120
00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,279
Speaker 2: And it's ironic, right, because the Popular Front was the

121
00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:13,680
Speaker 2: popular Front against fascism, like, not the Popular Front of

122
00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:19,000
Speaker 2: not fucking going to a place in town. And it's like,

123
00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,000
Speaker 2: I don't think Labor gave us shit about the communist part. No,

124
00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,080
Speaker 2: Like they're like chrying to cozy up to someone who

125
00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,280
Speaker 2: does not care as far as I can tell, Yeah,

126
00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,440
Speaker 2: you're not gonna yeah, don't be to pick me leftist.

127
00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, But like I keep learning over and over again.

128
00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,839
Speaker 1: While I'm not necessarily a huge fan of the Communist Party,

129
00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,960
Speaker 1: the actual rank and file people often are pretty amazing

130
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:46,080
Speaker 1: people trying to do pretty amazing things. And so this

131
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,839
Speaker 1: command from the higher up the Communist Party upset a

132
00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,080
Speaker 1: lot of people in their rank and file, particularly Jews

133
00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:56,840
Speaker 1: and particularly in Stepney. Fortunately, the organizing against fascism literally

134
00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,240
Speaker 1: did not need them. It went on without them need

135
00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,280
Speaker 1: the political elite, and it didn't need the vanguard. The

136
00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,720
Speaker 1: center of this organizing was probably the JPC, the Jewish,

137
00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,560
Speaker 1: the Long Acronym Group, but independent trade unions and the

138
00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,920
Speaker 1: Independent Labor Party, which is a political party to the

139
00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,120
Speaker 1: left of the Labor Party. They did the work too,

140
00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:22,080
Speaker 1: as did a lot of unaffiliated folks. And then I

141
00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,960
Speaker 1: keep hearing reference to anarchists involved in the organizing, but

142
00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,400
Speaker 1: I can't find any specifics about it, and so I

143
00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,520
Speaker 1: don't have any like, I don't know whether that's people

144
00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,360
Speaker 1: being like, oh well, it was like leftists in early

145
00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,680
Speaker 1: twentieth century, so they just like list out socialist, communist anarchists,

146
00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:37,320
Speaker 1: et cetera, you know.

147
00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:41,560
Speaker 2: And it definitely was a presence of anarchism at that time. Again,

148
00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,520
Speaker 2: anarcho syndicalism, specifically right like British anarchists came to Spain

149
00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,200
Speaker 2: to fight with the Druti column in the Iron Column.

150
00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,920
Speaker 1: Yeah no, And I want to know, I spent a

151
00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,000
Speaker 1: while being me I spent a while trying to find

152
00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,040
Speaker 1: out what was going on with that part of it,

153
00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,400
Speaker 1: and couldn't find a ton of information. I can't tell

154
00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,320
Speaker 1: you that some of the communist leaders are going to

155
00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,880
Speaker 1: be like, never mind and become anarchists after all of this,

156
00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:12,160
Speaker 1: including the secretary for the Stepney Anarchist Communist Party, Joe.

157
00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,880
Speaker 1: He's later in the script. Anyway, people start organizing and

158
00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,520
Speaker 1: they shall not pass. Graffiti went up all over the

159
00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,760
Speaker 1: East End. Literally entire squads of Whitewashers were going around

160
00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,280
Speaker 1: writing they shall not pass, which is of course a

161
00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,640
Speaker 1: reference that from a quote that had come only a

162
00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,320
Speaker 1: few months earlier at this point nineteen thirty six, of

163
00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,680
Speaker 1: they shall not pass about preventing no passeron preventing the

164
00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:40,600
Speaker 1: Fascists from taking Spain. And in contrast to a lot

165
00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:42,760
Speaker 1: of the struggles I sometimes cover of around this era

166
00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,520
Speaker 1: and especially earlier, all of this organizing and the fighting

167
00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,120
Speaker 1: and the street defense stuff and all of that included

168
00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,920
Speaker 1: women at every part of this. So anytime you picture

169
00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,160
Speaker 1: a group of people doing a thing, you picture it

170
00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:02,080
Speaker 1: heavily like very gender diverse Stepney Jewish Communist Party folks

171
00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,360
Speaker 1: managed finally to get through the leadership's thick skull that

172
00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,439
Speaker 1: having a counter rally was a really bad idea, that

173
00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:10,960
Speaker 1: people were going to do this no matter what, with

174
00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,400
Speaker 1: or without the Communists, and we can either look like

175
00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,080
Speaker 1: we stood on the side or even more than that,

176
00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,080
Speaker 1: organized against it, or we can show up and help.

177
00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,080
Speaker 1: And the Stepney Communists were like, let's show up and help.

178
00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,080
Speaker 1: And the leaders were like, ah, let's show up and

179
00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,719
Speaker 1: brand it and claim it was ours and then use

180
00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,680
Speaker 1: this for one hundred more years about why were great?

181
00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,520
Speaker 1: And the general secretary for the Communist Party in Stepney,

182
00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,160
Speaker 1: he's the Jewish man I was mentioning Joe Jacobs and

183
00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,240
Speaker 1: he does the heavy lifting on getting the Communist party

184
00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,719
Speaker 1: leadership to do the right thing. A year later, he's

185
00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,600
Speaker 1: expelled from the party. He actually joined again later in

186
00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,320
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty one, but was expelled again. He became a

187
00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,240
Speaker 1: libertarian socialist when he realized that allegiance to the USSR

188
00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:56,120
Speaker 1: and Vanguard parties was destroying the left in Europe. And

189
00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,480
Speaker 1: he wrote a lot about Cable Street because he helped

190
00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:00,400
Speaker 1: organize it. So he's one of the main sources both

191
00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:01,959
Speaker 1: for the show but then also a lot of other

192
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:07,319
Speaker 1: Cable Street stuff to zoom in on him for a moment, literally,

193
00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:09,160
Speaker 1: because it ends up with the tuberculosis reference. It's the

194
00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,600
Speaker 1: only reason I'm zooming in on him. He was born

195
00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,440
Speaker 1: in nineteen thirteen in the East End to Russian Jewish parents.

196
00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:16,800
Speaker 1: He lost his eye when he was twelve and he

197
00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,040
Speaker 1: had a glass eye ever since, and his elderly sister

198
00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:24,080
Speaker 1: died a friend of the pod tuberculosis. When he was twelve,

199
00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,480
Speaker 1: he came upon a demonstration in support of the Jewish

200
00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,400
Speaker 1: Baker's Union and his life changed soon. He was a

201
00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:33,520
Speaker 1: Communist and he was loyal as hell. He was like

202
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,200
Speaker 1: his quotes about how he wouldn't even read Trotsky because

203
00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,959
Speaker 1: the party told him not to read Trotsky. He should

204
00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,199
Speaker 1: have been the easiest guy to keep in the fold ever, right.

205
00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,960
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, unless you like just completely turn your back

206
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:46,800
Speaker 2: on his community.

207
00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:48,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

208
00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:48,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

209
00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:51,520
Speaker 1: He always wanted the party to do the right thing,

210
00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,360
Speaker 1: and then the party didn't like that. He kept trying

211
00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,000
Speaker 1: to do that. So the Communist Party is like, fine,

212
00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:01,319
Speaker 1: will cancel Truthauger to Fouger and lead the action against Moseley.

213
00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,160
Speaker 1: And they do this literally the Friday before the Sunday March.

214
00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,920
Speaker 1: Everyone else has been organizing for like, I think nine

215
00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,880
Speaker 1: months at this point, but they went into full swing

216
00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,800
Speaker 1: and they did a lot. They printed maps of where

217
00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:15,440
Speaker 1: the march was going to be so that people could

218
00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,320
Speaker 1: study and prepare. They brought in folks from around the city.

219
00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:20,760
Speaker 1: I have a feeling that there was always this part

220
00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,480
Speaker 1: of them being like, as soon as we fucking get

221
00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:27,000
Speaker 1: this through party politics, head, we're gonna be ready to

222
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:27,480
Speaker 1: go into action.

223
00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

224
00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,160
Speaker 1: And a few days earlier, the Stepney branch of the

225
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,520
Speaker 1: Communist Party did the I think the coolest thing they

226
00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:35,280
Speaker 1: did of all of this, which is they went on

227
00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:39,640
Speaker 1: the offensive and marched on the Buffs East headquarters. Have

228
00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,320
Speaker 1: you heard this No, I think I have what I've

229
00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:42,960
Speaker 1: been reading about it.

230
00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:43,920
Speaker 2: It's such a long time.

231
00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:48,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So they just like crewed up and they're like, oh,

232
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,120
Speaker 1: we're going on a march. No, they went to go

233
00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,960
Speaker 1: fucking fight them at their headquarters and did showed up

234
00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,600
Speaker 1: to the black Shirts headquarters and beat the shit out

235
00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,840
Speaker 1: of all the black Shirts that they found. Or to

236
00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:06,120
Speaker 1: quote Joe Jacob's quote, there were several scuffles and since

237
00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,200
Speaker 1: the police were unable to assist the fascist effectively, we

238
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,320
Speaker 1: got much better of the exchanges. We passed with more

239
00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,400
Speaker 1: ease than I had anticipated. I think I've seen that

240
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:20,960
Speaker 1: very quote before. Fortunately, Yeah, fantastic understatement. We just rolled

241
00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:21,320
Speaker 1: through him.

242
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,920
Speaker 2: Fuck him, yeah, and no so brave when their own

243
00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:25,200
Speaker 2: cops to.

244
00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,840
Speaker 1: High behind Yeah. Later they kept marching after that, and

245
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,760
Speaker 1: later Joe gets arrested, but he was soon bailed out

246
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:33,839
Speaker 1: and the cops were in a hurry to get him

247
00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,319
Speaker 1: free because hundreds of people surrounded the jail shouting they

248
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:41,920
Speaker 1: shall not pass. And there is one nice moment he's

249
00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,480
Speaker 1: describing getting arrested and he's like weight hold on. They're

250
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,720
Speaker 1: like beating him up, I think, and he's like weight

251
00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,960
Speaker 1: hold on my eye it's glass and they're like, oh okay,

252
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:53,160
Speaker 1: And they let him take out his glass eye and

253
00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,680
Speaker 1: put in his pocket before they beat him up. Yeah,

254
00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,720
Speaker 1: which I guess is like they there is a difference

255
00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,040
Speaker 1: between trying to like kill someone and trying to right

256
00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,200
Speaker 1: yeah you know. Yeah, But anyway, this is a very

257
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,360
Speaker 1: good way to get your friends out of prison. I've

258
00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,280
Speaker 1: done it successfully a couple times myself. It could go

259
00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:13,960
Speaker 1: the other way and the person's like it of a

260
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,880
Speaker 1: real bad time because hundreds of people are outside screaming

261
00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:21,160
Speaker 1: their name or whatever, But overall the thing worth considering.

262
00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,480
Speaker 1: Another badass communist Jew during all this time was a

263
00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,840
Speaker 1: guy named Phil Paratan who organized a great deal of

264
00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:31,800
Speaker 1: all of the resistance that we're gonna be talking about

265
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,839
Speaker 1: and Cable Street in particular, and later he went on

266
00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,400
Speaker 1: to be he's the person who forced the government to

267
00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,240
Speaker 1: open up the London underground stations as bomb shelters during

268
00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:41,720
Speaker 1: the Blitz.

269
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:46,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we can. This is not a probably topic

270
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,679
Speaker 2: for his podcast, but like this idea of the Blitz

271
00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,880
Speaker 2: spirit is entirely post memory, Like it doesn't fucking work

272
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,240
Speaker 2: that way. Like people were mad in the Blitz because

273
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,120
Speaker 2: the government didn't do fuck all for them and they

274
00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,680
Speaker 2: had to force them to open the underground shelters so

275
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:00,960
Speaker 2: they had a safe place to go. Yeah, and then

276
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,920
Speaker 2: they spent most of that time obviously being pissed about this.

277
00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,320
Speaker 2: Like this like idea of everyone like pulling together behind

278
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,000
Speaker 2: the government, it's nonsense.

279
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,680
Speaker 1: No, And I think that is worth pointing out. I

280
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:16,319
Speaker 1: think that because it's like we can celebrate London's anti

281
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:21,320
Speaker 1: fascist spirit and recognize that it came it direct opposition

282
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:26,240
Speaker 1: to like every political force in the sun. Yes, even

283
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,520
Speaker 1: the people whose party was built on we beat up fascists,

284
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,080
Speaker 1: you know, had to drag kicking and screaming into doing

285
00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:34,080
Speaker 1: some kicking and screaming.

286
00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it came from entirely from below, yeh, from anyone

287
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:39,240
Speaker 2: in positions authority.

288
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,520
Speaker 1: So both sides are now organized and ready for this

289
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,200
Speaker 1: march on Cable Street. Well the fascists think they are.

290
00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,160
Speaker 1: And this brings us to Sunday, October fourth, nineteen thirty six,

291
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,320
Speaker 1: the big Day. And if you're getting ready for your

292
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,520
Speaker 1: big day, dry one of the wedding planners that we

293
00:14:55,560 --> 00:15:02,880
Speaker 1: advertise on this show. And we're back. So Mosley's plan

294
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,560
Speaker 1: is he's going to lead his like three to five

295
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,560
Speaker 1: thousand black shirts seeing different numbers, through the East End,

296
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,800
Speaker 1: probably three thousand, into the heart of the Jewish neighborhood,

297
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:15,600
Speaker 1: or through the heart of the Jewish neighborhood, not actually

298
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:17,280
Speaker 1: Cable Street. That's the plan.

299
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:18,120
Speaker 2: B we'll get to that.

300
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,360
Speaker 1: And he's going to like start by like reviewing his

301
00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,040
Speaker 1: troops all in one place, and then they're going to

302
00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,160
Speaker 1: go on four different marches. He has this like elaborate

303
00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,040
Speaker 1: fantasy of like how he's just gonna like with his

304
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:34,920
Speaker 1: three thousand fucking Nazis and his six thousand cops like

305
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,280
Speaker 1: take over the East End. Like, I straight up don't

306
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:39,840
Speaker 1: know what I think he thought was going to happen.

307
00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, he's fucking I know, like

308
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,640
Speaker 2: tea and metals. I suppose like he's raised on some

309
00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:47,840
Speaker 2: kind of imperial bullshit.

310
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally. He's like, well, I'm a noble, Yeah,

311
00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:57,000
Speaker 1: they can't stop me. Yeah. And so you know, he's

312
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,000
Speaker 1: got his six to seven thousand police on his side,

313
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,040
Speaker 1: trying to protect his free speech that he's allowed to

314
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,760
Speaker 1: have instead of the people who got a permit before him,

315
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,160
Speaker 1: and like half a million people showed up to beat

316
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:11,520
Speaker 1: them a fuck up. The numbers range from one hundred

317
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:15,640
Speaker 1: thousand to five hundred thousand. Time reported half a million.

318
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,040
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that most of the one hundred thousand guesses

319
00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,240
Speaker 1: are from the like people who are afraid it just

320
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,520
Speaker 1: sounds made up. If you come up with a higher number,

321
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:27,920
Speaker 1: I don't know. The most reputable places seem to put

322
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,440
Speaker 1: it about three hundred thousand, but there's just like literally

323
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,480
Speaker 1: no way to know. It's just the entire East End

324
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,120
Speaker 1: is just packed with people.

325
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's hard to kind of quantify, like, right,

326
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,800
Speaker 2: who's there because they've traveled to come there, versus who

327
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:43,440
Speaker 2: he's like, Oh, look a fact, he's just walking past

328
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,160
Speaker 2: my house. Well I'll throw an egg.

329
00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really good point too. Most people never

330
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,400
Speaker 1: got anywhere near the fighting. Most people, a lot of

331
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:53,640
Speaker 1: people weren't even able to get off the underground, which

332
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,880
Speaker 1: is what you call the subway there, right, yes, okay,

333
00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,640
Speaker 1: chip in on it. And only thing I remember about

334
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:04,080
Speaker 1: it is the loudspeaker saying cock fosters. And they do

335
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,960
Speaker 1: it just to make the Americans laugh. So that's who

336
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:07,800
Speaker 1: the Americans are.

337
00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:10,800
Speaker 2: People are obsessed with mind the gap, which I've never

338
00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,879
Speaker 2: really understood. Like, I don't know why it's so exciting.

339
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,080
Speaker 1: For people that one's nothing. That's nothing, that's just that's

340
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,040
Speaker 1: just so that's your angli file one.

341
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,119
Speaker 2: Oh he said the taboos.

342
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:23,560
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means.

343
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:25,600
Speaker 2: It's a I think it's as a word for.

344
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:32,840
Speaker 1: What is the word taboo? Like oh like like weya boo?

345
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,760
Speaker 1: Only what's the tea? The t is the other word

346
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:37,800
Speaker 1: for the subway, right.

347
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:39,520
Speaker 2: No, it's the tea is the thing that?

348
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:40,960
Speaker 3: Yeah?

349
00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,240
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I think the tea is Boston maybe or

350
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:46,520
Speaker 2: something like that. No. We the tube is the other

351
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:46,840
Speaker 2: word for the.

352
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, okay, yeah, I think mind the gap is

353
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,439
Speaker 1: the like I went to London and I need a

354
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,159
Speaker 1: personality trait. Yeah yeah, And to be fair, when I

355
00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:58,879
Speaker 1: was a teenager, I went to Finland and needed a

356
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,800
Speaker 1: personality trait, so that that was my thing. Everyone needs

357
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:08,040
Speaker 1: a personality trait when they're a teenager. Anyway, all these

358
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,680
Speaker 1: people got lucky. Their personality trait was I threw shit

359
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:11,879
Speaker 1: it mostly in the cops.

360
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:13,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's a good one to have.

361
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:14,159
Speaker 3: I know.

362
00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,040
Speaker 1: So there's the fascists and then there's the cops, and

363
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,440
Speaker 1: then there's just like fucking every Irish and Jewish person

364
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,040
Speaker 1: in the city, plus all their close friends and family,

365
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,680
Speaker 1: ready to fight. This is obviously an exaggeration. He had

366
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,920
Speaker 1: some supporters in the East End. They didn't stand a chance.

367
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,919
Speaker 1: There was no version of this where they could have

368
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,600
Speaker 1: pulled off anything without like a machine gun, and one

369
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:38,560
Speaker 1: of the worst things that could have possibly ever happened,

370
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:39,240
Speaker 1: you know.

371
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:40,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

372
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,879
Speaker 1: So the police start by trying to clear a crowd,

373
00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,119
Speaker 1: clear the crowd to make a path for him, and

374
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:50,639
Speaker 1: they do this by riding police horses into people and

375
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,440
Speaker 1: beating everyone up with sticks truncheons. I believe they're called.

376
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,640
Speaker 2: Yes, truncheons. Yeah, seeing that happen a couple of times, Yeah,

377
00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:59,280
Speaker 2: I believe not a fun day.

378
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,320
Speaker 1: Immediately, a communist tram driver drove it in front of

379
00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:07,200
Speaker 1: the police. Stop. The tram got out and walked away.

380
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:09,000
Speaker 2: This is amazing.

381
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,560
Speaker 1: It was the first of four trams.

382
00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,840
Speaker 2: What a hero, you know, this is a simple act

383
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:19,560
Speaker 2: of resistance.

384
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:24,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, the police were brutal. A quote from one Jewish

385
00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,400
Speaker 1: woman talking about it is quote, they knocked my brother out.

386
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,640
Speaker 1: The police were going buy on horseback and hit him

387
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:34,320
Speaker 1: with a truncheon. He was only twelve. And so one

388
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,159
Speaker 1: of the first things that happened is people apparently especially children,

389
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,560
Speaker 1: threw marbles into the streets in front of the horse

390
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 1: cups and like tripped them all and shit, and cops

391
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,880
Speaker 1: were like running people over with horses. Right, there's like, yeah,

392
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:48,520
Speaker 1: go ahead.

393
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:52,439
Speaker 2: I don't think unless you've been party to like like

394
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,960
Speaker 2: a mounted police charge, I don't think you realize the

395
00:19:56,119 --> 00:20:00,280
Speaker 2: violence that is inherent in that Thathit is scary. Like

396
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,280
Speaker 2: we are designed as human beings not to want to

397
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,400
Speaker 2: be run over by horses. Yeah, And like I don't

398
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,679
Speaker 2: think it happens as much now as it used to.

399
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,480
Speaker 2: Cops like to use bikes now. Yeah, but like, yeah,

400
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,520
Speaker 2: that that is like a primarily scary experience.

401
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,159
Speaker 1: Yeah. I've been in a couple demonstrations where we like

402
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,239
Speaker 1: stare down lines of horse cops, but I've never been

403
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 1: in a horse cup charge and I'm very grateful with that.

404
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:30,160
Speaker 1: But apparently one way to deal with marbles, I would

405
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,879
Speaker 1: never you're going to catch felonies you caught doing it, well,

406
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 1: doing anything that we're about to talk about today.

407
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Following is a list of crime people

408
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 2: committing felonies. Yeah that the best way to do felonies

409
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,240
Speaker 2: is with four hundred, nine hundred and ninety nine are

410
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 2: your best friends, because they can't catch you all.

411
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,520
Speaker 1: It's true, it's true. And the number of people they

412
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,800
Speaker 1: caught is like not that high considering what happened. Yeah,

413
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,679
Speaker 1: so they start throwing marbles. People had packets of pepper

414
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,120
Speaker 1: that they tossed at the cops and the police horses

415
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,679
Speaker 1: or like would rip open beneath the horse nose to

416
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 1: catch the cause the horse like rear up and shit.

417
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,960
Speaker 1: It's just like fucking like old school pepper spray. Yeah,

418
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 1: and one thing that's important to understand. It was not

419
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,200
Speaker 1: a battle between fascist and anti fascist. Is a battle

420
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:19,880
Speaker 1: between anti fascists and the police. The fascists, I think

421
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 1: more or less just coward behind.

422
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, they they with a second rank.

423
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:29,640
Speaker 1: Yeah we got you. If they get through, you don't worry.

424
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 1: I will die to defend your right to be a Nazi.

425
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. The pogues of fascists.

426
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:40,919
Speaker 1: Yeah. In this battle starts on Lemon Street. It rages

427
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,200
Speaker 1: for hours. The cops had the weaponry, the people had

428
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 1: the people. Whenever someone ran off or was injured or

429
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,439
Speaker 1: was arrested, there was hundreds of people to take their

430
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,399
Speaker 1: place for At the beginning of it, the cops focused

431
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,120
Speaker 1: on trying to arrest people, but it took like ten

432
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 1: officers to arrest one hundred to arrest one person. And

433
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,160
Speaker 1: everyone there's like pictures of people either like going limp

434
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 1: or maybe unconscious, but like the cops really have to

435
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: carry away people. They rested about eighty people that day,

436
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 1: and so soon they switched to raw violence. It wouldn't work.

437
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 1: They couldn't get anywhere through the main thoroughfare through into

438
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,360
Speaker 1: the Jewish Quarter, which was their main plan, so they

439
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 1: moved it to Cable Street to the Irish Catholic neighborhood.

440
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:25,679
Speaker 1: This didn't go any better from me.

441
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 2: Yes, smart move.

442
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, the anti fascists had a mole in the police

443
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 1: force somewhere apparently, it's like one of the things I read,

444
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 1: and they knew it was being moved to Cable Street,

445
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 1: like as soon as it happened, and they were prepared.

446
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,679
Speaker 1: They also had also mapped out all possible contingencies and

447
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 1: there was like four or five streets that they had

448
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,639
Speaker 1: barricaded or barricades ready to go and like, and then

449
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 1: a loud speaker announced where the fascists and the cops

450
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: were going. There's like kids up on lamp posts and shit,

451
00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 1: like I think there's a quote about it later on.

452
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 1: And so they go to Cable Street. By the time

453
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 1: the cops get there, there's an overturned truck or LORI

454
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 1: I suppose as a barricade, and people built more barricades

455
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 1: behind that, and they would rip up cobblestones to throw

456
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 1: at least as much as to build barricades with people

457
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: brought out their like mattresses and furniture out of their

458
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 1: houses because you're just going through. Yeah, as you point out,

459
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,439
Speaker 1: it's like someone's fucking neighborhood, you know.

460
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you can go to your front room and

461
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 2: come back. Yeah, it's not very far.

462
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. And so this is where you get these images

463
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: of old Irish Catholic ladies on rooftops, throwing pepper bombs

464
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 1: from tenement roofs, emptying chamber pots on the cops. It's

465
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 1: always like sick. Oh they dumped refuse on the cops.

466
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 1: No one wants to say piss and shit. They jump

467
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 1: piss and shit on the cops.

468
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's praxius.

469
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 1: Bricks were thrown, rotten vegetables pelted the cops, and there's

470
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: like supply lines of all the ammunition to the tossers

471
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 1: and all of this stuff. Here's where we get to

472
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 1: our supposed potatoes with razor blades. Have you heard this?

473
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,479
Speaker 2: I've heard it, yeah, I met. I'm just never sure

474
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 2: if it was just like the true truth or like it.

475
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 2: I don't know when disposable razor blades became a thing.

476
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 1: Well, I think that there were. I think this is

477
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: a thing that would have been possible. It was discussed

478
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 1: at the time.

479
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 3: It was a.

480
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: I think it was the thing. Like when I was

481
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 1: coming up, people were like the cops were always like,

482
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: these anarchists are gonna throw piss on the cops, and

483
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 1: we were always like, where the fuck did they get

484
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: this from. No one's throwing piss on cops, right, and

485
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 1: I'm clearly we're talking about here where they did throw

486
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 1: piss on cops. Yeah, but it was this like boogeyman

487
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 1: people would come up with all the time. Yeah, right,

488
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 1: it's possible that the razor blade potato thing was the

489
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 1: boogeyman about the Irish. Oh, because there's articles from around

490
00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 1: that time about the quote animal game of Ireland, who

491
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 1: I do not know enough about. Politically, they seem to

492
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: be positioned against the IRA, but I don't know if

493
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: that was an internal struggle or an external struggle. Someone does.

494
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 1: I just don't know. And so these Doublin street fighters

495
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: supposedly had potatoes stuck full of razors and you know whatever.

496
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, it's one of those things that they

497
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: probably said to try and demonize us. And then here

498
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 1: we are later being like, fuck, yes, the Gish motherfuckers

499
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 1: through potato stuff razors are some fucking cops protecting the

500
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 1: fascists that rules, you know. Yeah, this was also alleged

501
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: during the Stockton fight. I talked about earlier where the

502
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: grandmother bit through the cop A fascist got hit in

503
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: the face with something, and he was like, it was

504
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 1: a potato full of razors. But even as friends, I

505
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: think we're like, Buddy, that was a rock. You got

506
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 1: hit in ahead of a rock. Yeah, it still hurts. Yeah,

507
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: I don't want to hit inhead with either of these things.

508
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

509
00:25:55,680 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 1: Maybe there were black metal potatoes, maybe there weren't. There

510
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: was piss and shit, there were marbles, there were pepper bombs,

511
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 1: there were stones, there was fists, and there was all

512
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: kinds of anti fascism. Oh and kitchen utensils dropped from windows. Yeah. Yeah,

513
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 1: our man Joe said, quote oh and joke. But Joe

514
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: was like most of the organizers like literally couldn't get

515
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 1: to the front.

516
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 2: It's just like a human crush.

517
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 1: Yeah. But our man Joe said. Young people were perched

518
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 1: on all the lamp posts and any other vantage point,

519
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: displaying posters and directing the crowds towards the weak spots

520
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: in the fronts with the police amazing. The organizers had

521
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: first aid stations set up and storefronts on every place

522
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: that there could be fighting like like I like mean

523
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: it when it's like this was organized, yeah.

524
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then after boy didn't need organizing anymore. It

525
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 2: just became like spontaneous and like organic. Yeah yeah, it's

526
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 2: it's incredible. They fought the state like hand to hand,

527
00:26:58,320 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 2: street to street and one.

528
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, they set up the infrastructure and then let

529
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:08,360
Speaker 1: the organic growth of the moment, yes, yeah, do its thing.

530
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 2: Blossomed into a beautiful tree.

531
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 1: There were over eighty injuries reported that day, but it

532
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: seems like a very low number, and the best guess

533
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: is that the number was actually very much higher than that.

534
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: But the anti fascists took care of their own at

535
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 1: their medic stations, So it's like, you're not going to

536
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 1: the hospital, right, You're going to an anti fascist doctor.

537
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: In a storefront, the crowds chanted no pastereron, they chanted

538
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: they will not pass, and they chanted one, two, three, four, five,

539
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 1: we want mostly dead or alive.

540
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 2: Can you imagine half a million people charging that fucking petrifying,

541
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 2: I know.

542
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 1: And then here's my favorite felony that was committed during

543
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 1: the whole thing. Two police officers were arrested by the crowd. Yeah,

544
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,239
Speaker 1: they were dragged away by a family I think like

545
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: into the house, just detained there. Who yeah, like kept

546
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: them until it was all over and then released them,

547
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 1: but kept their helmets as souvenirs for the rest of them.

548
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 2: Fantastic love that. Yeah, somewhere in my I don't know where,

549
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 2: but I didn't even know how he came about it.

550
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 2: But my grandfather was I guess in his teens at

551
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 2: this time. It was later, but at some point he

552
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 2: obtained a policeman's helmet and he absolutely was not a cop.

553
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 2: I don't think. I don't think it came about through this, but.

554
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: I mean that's cool no matter what.

555
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think one of them stole it and

556
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 2: then they passed it to each other and then he

557
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 2: was a competitive runner, so he was the one tasked

558
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 2: with taking off with it.

559
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 3: What.

560
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 1: I lived in this anti fascist squat in Amsterdam a

561
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: long time ago, and I was like not as much

562
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: of a street fighter as like the people I lived with.

563
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: And I was like and just on the wall was

564
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: a police helmet and a police baton, and me and

565
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: one of my friends who was like also we were

566
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: kind of like the like the not fighty like we

567
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: were the like less bad. We're like the goofy kids

568
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: who are just like there, and so we're like playing

569
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: around with the baton helmet and then I accidentally whacked

570
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: him in the ear so hard that his ear turned blue.

571
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: Oh like two weeks Jesus, it was like on his shoulder,

572
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: and then like slipped you know.

573
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 2: No, yeah, so you became a tool of state vine

574
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 2: and I did the button possessed you.

575
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like the talking swords in D and D.

576
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: The baton really had a will of its own, you know.

577
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it wants to be a cop. So you have

578
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 2: to take it to a special place where there was

579
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 2: a fire, a volcano, and you can melt it.

580
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: Okay, quest But what if I took it to someone

581
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: to like get the curse lifted? So then it became

582
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: like the people's stick. Oh wait, there's a whole quote

583
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: about the people's stick not being any better thing sticks.

584
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 2: What if you paid it with a hammer and sickle.

585
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 1: And then you hit all the people who doesn't Yeah, yeah.

586
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and it would be fine. Only hit people

587
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 2: who you think a trot's case and you'll be good. Yeah.

588
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: Great, God. So the police eventually break through the first

589
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: barricade on Cable Street, but there's another one, so they

590
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: break through, but there's another one. So they break through,

591
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: but there's another one, and I think around the fourth barricade.

592
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: I've actually read also that they were turned away the

593
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: first barricade, but I've also read that they made it

594
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: to the fourth. Either way, I don't care.

595
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't matter it.

596
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: Finally, they just couldn't fucking go any further. There's a

597
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: couple different ways that exactly the cops turning around. There

598
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: was like people high up in government being like oh fuck,

599
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: oh fuck, oh fuck, and like pushing on the police

600
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: commissioner to turn around. There was also possibly someone like

601
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: from the like protesters, who was like talking to police

602
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: commissioner and basically was like, look, this isn't gonna work.

603
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 1: Like there was a police agociator, whatever it was. The

604
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: chief of police decided that it couldn't go any further.

605
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: One of the organizers later said, quote, the chief of

606
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: police decided that if the march had taken place, there

607
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: would have been death on the road, and there would

608
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: have been.

609
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I think it's fairly fair to say yeah.

610
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 2: But also beyond like people dying on the march, like

611
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 2: the state exists as an entity, but it has a

612
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 2: monopoty on legitimate violence, and like in this moment it

613
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 2: has lost that, right. Yeah, it's the precarity of like

614
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 2: the entire apparatus of policing is probably pretty evident when

615
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 2: you're getting shit dumped on you.

616
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's only eight million people in the city of

617
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: London and half a million people are currently fighting all

618
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: of the cops of London the surrounding area. Winning. Yeah,

619
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: this could have gone anyway, yeah, yeah.

620
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, this could have been a whole whole thing.

621
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the police commissioner was like, all right, sorry, Bud,

622
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: get you any further. You want to like, go rally

623
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: somewhere else, We'll protect you if you rally somewhere else.

624
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: But Mosley was like, no, we'll go home. So he

625
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: marched west and then dispersed. In the end, seventy nine

626
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: anti fascists were arrested and six fascists were arrested, and

627
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: the JPC organized free legal aid for the anti fascists.

628
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: Immediately the cops at the station. You're gonna be shocked

629
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: by this. They were anti Semitic and violent.

630
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 2: Oh really the police, I know, Yeah, that's crazy because

631
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 2: I've just seen them doing Pride month, cause so I

632
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 2: thought they were cool.

633
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. The cops at the station called everyone either jew

634
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: bastard or Jewish bitch, depending on their gender, and then

635
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 1: beat them up.

636
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 2: Gender affirmings. Yeah, I was right about the Pride can

637
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 2: yeah see yeah, yeah, yeah, great group of people.

638
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: One person at least, well, let's just use the quote.

639
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: The swing doors of the police station Siddy burst open

640
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: and my father's good friend, Charlie Goodman appeared. His head

641
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: had been used like a battery ram by the four

642
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 1: policemen who were carrying him, and many arrestees faced hard labor.

643
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: Sixty four people in the end got like three months

644
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: of I think hard labor.

645
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 2: Jesus.

646
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: One participant, David Rosenberg, told the Guardian quote, it was frightening.

647
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: They slung my brother in a black Mariah. My mom

648
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: was waiting up for him, and he didn't come home.

649
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: He was in a police cell. My dad came home

650
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: covered in blood. One man who was there, who could

651
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: see better than others because he was tall, told the

652
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 1: Guardian later we were all side by side. I was

653
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: moved to tears to see the bearded Jews and Irish

654
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 1: Catholic dockers standing up to stop Moseley. I shall never

655
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: forget that as long as I live, how working class

656
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: people could get together to oppose the evil of racism.

657
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: And after the victory, the chance turned from they shall

658
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: not pass too they did not pass. And obviously things

659
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: were really hard for the people who are like beat

660
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: up and arrested and shit right, but overall everyone went

661
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 1: into the cafes laughing and happy, swapping stories. The streets

662
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: were not fixed for a very long time. And if

663
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: you want your streets fixed, then probably don't become a libertarian.

664
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: Where am I going with this? Ad transitions are my job.

665
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: I'm good at my job. This is the song of

666
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:37,760
Speaker 1: the ad transition, and we're back.

667
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 2: Phones up.

668
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone was really excited about eventually I'm going to

669
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:45,879
Speaker 1: do a musical episode of this.

670
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 2: Oh hell yeah, we could do the bagpipes to get it. Yeah, yeah,

671
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 2: I can see. Sophie's just smiling. She's anticipating you.

672
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, my neighbors will be so excited about Yeah. I

673
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,720
Speaker 1: live in the mountains, so it'll be perfect.

674
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 2: I do not I don't care.

675
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 1: Oh well, yeah, you know your neighbors will also like you.

676
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of argument about the aftermath of

677
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: Cable Street. One thing that is true that is used

678
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: by people who are like, see violence doesn't work. To

679
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 1: be clear, that's an incorrect assessment of this particular thing

680
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 1: or the world war that happened immediately afterward.

681
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 2: Yea, yes, yeah, documented evidence of Vinet's working.

682
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: One thing that happened is the black Shirts got two

683
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: thousand new members. Is their biggest spike in membership immediately

684
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 1: after and they were mostly from the East End these

685
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: new members. This does not make it a victory for them.

686
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: Cable Street destroyed the British Union of Fascists again, according

687
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: to that source about Mussolini backing it, Mussolini then decided

688
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 1: the whole thing was embarrassing and stopped funding them.

689
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 2: Yeah.

690
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: Core fascists will play the under dog card when it's

691
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: the only card they've got in their hand. But it

692
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 1: doesn't like if we're imagining this is a card game.

693
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: It doesn't synergize well with their platform, right. They do

694
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: well when they are aggrieved but strong, right like when

695
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: they're the top dog. But someone is like common for them,

696
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: you know, And Cable Street made it real, real, fucking

697
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 1: clear that they were unpopular and that they were losers.

698
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: One organizer said quote for what it's worth. I have

699
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: often thought that if Mosley had secured a firm foothold

700
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: in East London, from which he might have built a

701
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: mass base, the whole history of the world could have

702
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: been different. Certainly there were powerful forces backing him. If

703
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 1: these forces had not been checked, might they not have

704
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: had an alliance with Hitler and Mussolini resulting in an

705
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: all out attack on the Soviet Union? And so like,

706
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: I love I wass say like we shouldn't play games

707
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: like if this had gone different, how would the world

708
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: have been different? I love playing games like that. It's

709
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 1: like the most fun part of any of this. Yeah,

710
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: because I like the idea that two teenaged anarchist Jews

711
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 1: who were like, hey, what if we organized childcare for

712
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 1: the Dockers created the alliance between two immigrant cultures of

713
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: different religions that defeated fascism, kept fascism from taking England,

714
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: and therefore meant that the World War Two went to

715
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 1: the Allies. There's some there's some gaps in this right.

716
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 2: Right, But yeah, but it's not not true that Britain

717
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 2: was very close to being on the wrong side of

718
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 2: these things. Yeah, And like it certainly like if working

719
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,879
Speaker 2: class people in London hadn't been like no, like we're

720
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 2: not going to take instruction from the Communist Party or

721
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 2: capitalists or anyone else, like they're not welcoming our community.

722
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 2: We will fucking fight them. Yeah, then British histy will

723
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 2: be very different for sure.

724
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. One bittersweet result of the Cable Street riots

725
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: or battle or whatever was that the Public Order Act

726
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: of nineteen thirty six was passed, and this was presented

727
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: as this anti fascist thing or anti black shirt thing.

728
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: It banned the wearing of political uniforms in public. It

729
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: has been used throughout history against working classing, anti colonial movements.

730
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 1: This is a thing that people will never learn the

731
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,320
Speaker 1: lesson of. Or No, I shouldn't be pessimistic. This is

732
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: a lesson that we should pay attention to that when

733
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: we give the state more power hoping that they will

734
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 1: use it against fascists, as soon as any part of

735
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: government wants to do something different, like b fascists, they

736
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: now have a new tool that you have given them.

737
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: But even still this proved that he was out organized.

738
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 1: Mosley gave a speech that night at after Cable Street.

739
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: It was the last time he ever tried to give

740
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 1: a talk in the East End and it was the

741
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,240
Speaker 1: last talk he ever gave in a uniform. Cable Street

742
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: and all this organizing in general helped mobilize the twoy

743
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: one hundred anti fascist volunteers from England who went and

744
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,839
Speaker 1: fought against Franco and Space. A quarter of them five

745
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty six of them never returned. There's a

746
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: memorial for them in London. I was talking about how

747
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:08,839
Speaker 1: I went around London with no context, so I didn't

748
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: know what was happening. Not true for this part. Oh cool,

749
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 1: because there's a memorial for them in London that my

750
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: partner at the time it was British, took me to

751
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: and it made me cry when I saw it because

752
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,919
Speaker 1: I'm a SAP and that memorial says they went because

753
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 1: their open eyes could see no other way.

754
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty people should go they get the chance.

755
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

756
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 2: There was a Cable Street machine gun company, I think

757
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 2: whoa yeah yeah. They all had pretty cool names.

758
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: Oh oh, not people who made machine guns. There was

759
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: a machine gun yeah yeah yeah, fighters yeah yeah yeah

760
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: yeah yeah fuck yeah. And at least some of the

761
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: arrestees who did hard labor were some of the people

762
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:52,760
Speaker 1: who immediately like turned around and went to Spain.

763
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, I can see why, totally. Yeah, and

764
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 2: they It's cool how strongly they drew on what had

765
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 2: just happened in Barcelona. Yeah, like how quickly that was

766
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 2: July of that same year. They were like, hey, well

767
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 2: we fucking beat them there and we can beat them here.

768
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 2: In neither case did we need the support of the

769
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 2: state like people did it themselves.

770
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. The anti fascist movement also, and this actually

771
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: ties into some state stuff. It got people involved in

772
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: World War Two who would never have fought for king

773
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:29,399
Speaker 1: and country, right, but there were people willing to go

774
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 1: join the Allied Army, go join the British Army, to

775
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: go fight Nazis. And the Communist Party has been claiming

776
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 1: it as their victory ever since. And they did a

777
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:43,959
Speaker 1: lot of really good anti fascist work. But of course

778
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: this wasn't solely them by a long shot. I really

779
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: think that the JPC is like the center of what

780
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: made this happen, which also makes me really happy because

781
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 1: it's like organized by Jews, even though the majority of

782
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: the fighters literally could not have been Jews. There was

783
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 1: only sixty thousand Jews in the city, right, yeah, but

784
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: like yeah, and also the fact that it was also

785
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: not just leftist Jews fighting too, right, like you have.

786
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: Orthodox Jews were brought up in a lot of the

787
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 1: stories about like you know, basically like, holy shit, there's

788
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: an Irish Catholic and an Orthodox Jew like fighting hand

789
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: in hand, you know. Yeah, but Mosley two days after

790
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 1: have you heard about Mosley? Immediately after this? What do

791
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:27,479
Speaker 1: you immediately have?

792
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 2: No?

793
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: Two days after Cable Street, he went to Germany marry

794
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: his second wife in Goebels, I don't know, Yeah, Goebels's house, Goebels, Yeah, Gebels,

795
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:45,720
Speaker 1: with Hitler as a guest. Hitler gave the happy couple

796
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: as signed portrait of himself as a present. Imagine, is

797
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:52,800
Speaker 1: there is there more cursed.

798
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 2: Of a kid? Luckily that was the worst thing he

799
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 2: ever did, because yeah, yeah, that should have been a

800
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 2: red fucking flag right there. I don't care who your

801
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 2: hero is. He's giving out side portraits of himself. Stab

802
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 2: him at a wedding present.

803
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,879
Speaker 1: Imagine I go to your wedding and I'm like, here's

804
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: a picture of me.

805
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 2: That's what I'm doing from now mind? Yeah, Jesus, Yeah,

806
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 2: turned out to be a piece of ship. Who could

807
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 2: have told me? You could have guessed? Yeah, yes, I forgot.

808
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 2: They all intermarried, A bunch of them did, right, they

809
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 2: were was it the Midford sisters who all married Nazis?

810
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 3: Oh?

811
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. Who are the Medford sisters?

812
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 2: Another bunch of really posh British people who have like

813
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 2: husbands in their family tree, who you know, like looked

814
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 2: at Nazism and was like, yeah, I want a piece

815
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 2: of that.

816
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 1: Yeah it makes sense.

817
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they were already doing the fucking Chosen

818
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 2: people bullshit, right, they've been doing it in there.

819
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 1: And totally they're like, what if we take the inbreed

820
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: in for kings and make it for an entire still

821
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: small group of people. Yeah, yeah, pure bloodlines. That's always good.

822
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd some diversity to the Chosen race and maybe

823
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,720
Speaker 2: try and tack on another fifty years. It didn't work.

824
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: All dead and because so more of the aftermath of

825
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 1: all this, because nothing ever changes if you read the

826
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: fascist account of the battle, which you can because Mosley

827
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,760
Speaker 1: still has fanboys who write books.

828
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 2: So yes, yeah, that the reason why nose points in

829
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 2: one direction story we would explore not on a recorded podcast.

830
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: All right, if you read the Fascist account of the battle.

831
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 1: It was literally all outside agitators who were bust in,

832
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 1: all a bunch of Commis and Jews stopping the lawful

833
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 1: business of mostly. I love this take because imagine thinking

834
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: that all the communists and Jews were bust in to

835
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: the only part of England yet Jews lived in in

836
00:43:57,680 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 1: large number.

837
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 2: Yeap lap just beforehand, just like a drum up support,

838
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 2: you know. They took them all out the East End,

839
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 2: went around a bit, came back.

840
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: It will look cooler if we come in on a bus.

841
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:13,919
Speaker 2: This is the only way we can get a tram

842
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 2: drivers on board. They're going to be pivotal.

843
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And so most these guys, they they kept

844
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 1: trying right their day. They were done, but they didn't

845
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 1: know yet, or they went down kicking. They did a

846
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: frankly a pogram. Two hundred black Shirts smashed up businesses

847
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 1: and attacked Jews in the East End shortly after, but

848
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 1: their heyday was over, never to return. By nineteen thirty eight,

849
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 1: Mosley saw that World War II was coming and everyone

850
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 1: hated as violence is cool and good thing. Plus he

851
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 1: actually turns out wasn't very good at violence, so he

852
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 1: shifted the black Shirts to be a pacifist organization.

853
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 2: A thing that has never happened again, I know, I know.

854
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 1: Yeah. He tried to demobilize the U for war, same

855
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 1: shit we see to get today with the anti war movement,

856
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 1: mostly far right in pro Russia. This helped his reputation,

857
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: but not enough. By the time the war came around,

858
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 1: it was too late. No one liked him. In nineteen

859
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: forty he was arrested because of the war, along with

860
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: like I think, I can't remember either one hundred or

861
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:24,720
Speaker 1: a thousand other fascist sympathizers. I can't remember. They find

862
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: the signed photo Hitler in his fucking baby crip when

863
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: they raised.

864
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 2: Ah, how could that get worse? What a fetid piece

865
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:36,439
Speaker 2: of shit?

866
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ one of his top guys who I think

867
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 1: got split off from him a little bit before this

868
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: because there became like more and more infighting. It was

869
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 1: no longer a union of fascists, right. One of his

870
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: top guys, William Joyce old Billy. He went over to

871
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: Germany and became a propagandist for the Nazis. After the

872
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 1: war he was captured and hanged.

873
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, he said, was it? He said? The way he

874
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 2: pronounced Germany with like Germany like j A I R

875
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 2: M A N Y Germany. British British soldiers when they

876
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,280
Speaker 2: were like participating in the like the Liberation of Germany

877
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 2: would write like Germany on their postcard.

878
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: Home to make fun of this guy.

879
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, it's great, yeah.

880
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: Because they had just gone and fucking conquered.

881
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:28,879
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, look where I am. Yeah you fucking yeah,

882
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 2: he fucking lose it. Yeah yeah, yeah, he took a

883
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:33,320
Speaker 2: big l Yeah he got hanged.

884
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: And so Mosley was like basically, if Hitler had taken

885
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 1: the UK, everyone was like, Hitler would have put him

886
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,359
Speaker 1: in charge and considering he Hitler went to his fucking

887
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: wedding and I have no doubt about this. After his arrest,

888
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: no one ever liked him ever again. He moved to

889
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: Paris and started pushing for the idea of of Europe

890
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: as a fascist place instead of England as a fascist place.

891
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:02,320
Speaker 1: Fascism shouldn't be so nationalistic, just racist. This is sometimes

892
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 1: called post fascism or the Union movement or europe a nation.

893
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 1: So this is basically like imagine the EU, but like

894
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:13,320
Speaker 1: instead of being kind of a capitalist sort of progressive thing, yeah,

895
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 1: it was just like a fascism imperial thing. Literally. Part

896
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: of this europe A nation plan was to divide Africa

897
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:23,240
Speaker 1: into black and white nations and use the black nations

898
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 1: for cheap labor. He wanted to ban interracial marriages and

899
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: to port non whites from Britain. He was a key

900
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 1: figure in starting the Holocaust denial movement. Great, and he

901
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 1: was super into organic farming.

902
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:44,280
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, so many of them were oddly.

903
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 1: I know, I know.

904
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 2: He pops back up in like the sixties, doesn't he

905
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 2: like doing anti immigrant barking and yeah.

906
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then someone punches him. I forgot to put

907
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 1: this part into the story. In the sixties, someone is

908
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 1: just like, fuck you.

909
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, wasn't he speakers corner like a Hyde park and

910
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 2: he got punched. I think I might, I might be

911
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:04,360
Speaker 2: sort of misremembering, but I think.

912
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:08,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, he got punched. Yeah, and yeah, you'd think he'd

913
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:13,320
Speaker 1: fucking learn. He also got like, even better than getting punched.

914
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 1: His son, Nicholas Moseley hated him. Dope, wrote a whole

915
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: ass book about what a fuck his dad was. Extremely basic,

916
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: said quote. While the right hand dealt with grandiose ideas

917
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 1: in Glory, the left hand let the rat out of

918
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: the sewer about Oh yeah, fucking dad, his son actually

919
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 1: fought fascists in World War two.

920
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 3: Amazing talk the talk, Walk Walk go on Nicholas.

921
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 1: And went on to be a novelist.

922
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 2: Aw hell yeah the war.

923
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 1: So Mosley died like Franco of Parkinson's disease in the end.

924
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: I believe every five years the veterans of the Battle

925
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: of Cable Street come out in remembrance, though I'm unsure

926
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,800
Speaker 1: if it's continued now or not. The article I was

927
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: reading was about ten years old.

928
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 2: I think they still do a commemorative march, ur like

929
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 2: at least as there's a commemorative event.

930
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And there's a mural there now. It's been

931
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:13,959
Speaker 1: there since the early eighties. It took a very long

932
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 1: time to paint because it kept getting attacked by fascists,

933
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:18,360
Speaker 1: this mural that was painted in the seventies.

934
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's only one way to deal with them.

935
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. And there are still fascists in that

936
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,240
Speaker 1: area trying to hate the foreigners, mostly South Asian folks

937
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 1: these days, who are included in the mural too. Because

938
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:34,879
Speaker 1: everyone involved in this on every level has always been

939
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 1: like all of these struggles are united.

940
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 2: Great, Yeah, there are still fascists in the UK. They

941
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 2: are still vulnerable to a piss shit being punched on

942
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 2: to the above stones.

943
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:53,720
Speaker 1: Solidarity between yeah.

944
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'm going to find it unless

945
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 2: you show up in the streets where they are and

946
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 2: stop them doing their nasty sh Yeah.

947
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 1: Well that's a battle of cable Street. I don't know

948
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 1: if there's potatoes razors, but there was basically everything else

949
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 1: you could possibly want good in this world.

950
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 2: It's a it is a really magnificent like it's such

951
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 2: a such a heartwarming story, Like it's how things should

952
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 2: always fucking work right. There should always be more people

953
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 2: who are like, no, this is not okay.

954
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and it it shows that, like because people nationalists,

955
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 1: racist Nazis, et cetera want to keep bringing up this

956
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 1: point that were like naturally divided along like ethnic and

957
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: religious lines and stuff, right, and it just shows that like, yes,

958
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:43,400
Speaker 1: people can be splintered into those Yes people can be

959
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: united and insolidarity. All you got to do is do it.

960
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 1: All you got to do is show up for each

961
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 1: other and like plant those seeds and then twenty years

962
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: later they will bear fruit, you know.

963
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like the most I think sometimes like some

964
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 2: of the most like the best memories I have. The

965
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 2: happiest times in my life have been in not in

966
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 2: the Battle of Cable Street and not at all, but

967
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 2: like participating in things where you feel that solidarity like

968
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:17,280
Speaker 2: and like I said, like you don't get it unless

969
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 2: you fucking show up. And when you show up, it's

970
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 2: very cool and it will inspire you to keep doing

971
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 2: all the stuff which is less exciting, you know, like

972
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:29,240
Speaker 2: you know, organizing me to let or getting blankets together

973
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 2: for people who need a warm place to sleep, or

974
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:33,360
Speaker 2: whatever it is, because like that is how you build

975
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 2: the thing that does the thing that happened at Cable Street.

976
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 1: And I've been in moments where, like, you know, like

977
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 1: at one point, the cops are trying to get the

978
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 1: some older liberals to disavow the Black block right, and

979
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 1: the cops are like showing up and being like, oh,

980
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,760
Speaker 1: it is anarchists, blah blah blah, and then those people

981
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 1: are like, no, the anarchists have been with us, like

982
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 1: they've had our backs against you, you know, like yeah,

983
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 1: and and what it takes. It's the opposite of Twitter discourse.

984
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:12,880
Speaker 1: It is the opposite of finding ways to focus on

985
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 1: what makes us different and disagree with each other and

986
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,800
Speaker 1: instead find things that we have in common and focus

987
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 1: on them. And I'm not saying that people shouldn't have

988
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 1: arguments about different things or whatever, but it's like, even

989
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 1: when I'm talking about all these like Irish Catholics and Jews,

990
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:31,880
Speaker 1: most of the Communists would not have identified as religious, right, Yeah,

991
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: you know, but it's like just people finding ways to

992
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 1: see their commonalities and work together is how shit gets done.

993
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I know I've told this story before in

994
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:48,279
Speaker 2: other podcasts, but like in twenty eighteen, I participated in

995
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 2: like some mutual aid help to the migrant caravan that

996
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 2: was down in Tijuana, and one of the coolest parts

997
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 2: of it was like I remember like some old ladies

998
00:52:57,920 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 2: from the church riding in the back of a pickup

999
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 2: truck with us, because like they had a bunch of

1000
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 2: cash that they'd taken from their collection and they were

1001
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:09,399
Speaker 2: determined to buy whatever people needed. And like another time,

1002
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 2: like this friend who's an electrician and another friend who's

1003
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 2: a pro bike racer, and a bunch of people from

1004
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 2: a church in Tijuana, and I like were able to

1005
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 2: rig up a projector in the roof of an old nightclub,

1006
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 2: so like little kids could watch Beverly Hills, Chihuahua. Like, yeah,

1007
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 2: it was these cool things that we totally wouldn't have

1008
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 2: done it. I'd been like you, are you from a

1009
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 2: Catholic church, or are you like from a mosque or

1010
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 2: a synagogue or there were all these different If the

1011
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:36,319
Speaker 2: people from the church hadn't wanted to work with people

1012
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 2: from the mosque, right, like, it would have been not

1013
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 2: as empowering. It still was very difficult for a lot

1014
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,800
Speaker 2: of people, but like, yeah, if we hadn't put aside

1015
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 2: or the little differences we had and focused on the

1016
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 2: massive commonalities we had, it would have been worse.

1017
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, if people want to focus on the commonalities

1018
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: they have with you, yeah, how can they follow you

1019
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 1: on the internet or read your stuff? I did that

1020
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: better than the ad transitions, I kinda Yeah, you crushed

1021
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 1: the sad transitions, but that one.

1022
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 2: I thought they were great. That was wonderful. Actually. Thanks.

1023
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 2: You can find me on Twitter dot com where you

1024
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 2: can type in my name, And I am quite angry

1025
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 2: on that, and you have to understand it's I'm angry

1026
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,800
Speaker 2: at people who should be uh yeah, should be victims

1027
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 2: of our anger most of the government. So you find

1028
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:26,800
Speaker 2: me there, it's James Stout. You can read a book

1029
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 2: about a similar incident of people coming together to fight

1030
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 2: fascism in Barcelona, but like six months before this, not

1031
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:36,920
Speaker 2: even by going to library and asking for playing as

1032
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 2: if the world was watching the popular front of the

1033
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty six Barcelona Olympics, which is a book everyon

1034
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 2: and you can hear me most days on It could

1035
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 2: Happen Here, which is a podcast on cool Zone Media.

1036
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can. I do have stuff other than

1037
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 1: the tabletop role playing game, but that's the coolest, or

1038
00:54:57,760 --> 00:54:59,439
Speaker 1: at least it's the thing that I'm currently talking about

1039
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 1: to compan city. It's up on Kickstarter and it's tabletop

1040
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 1: role playing game, and it's intended it will come with

1041
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:07,839
Speaker 1: all of the stuff to play, even if you've never

1042
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 1: played it Dungeons and Dragons or anything similar before. We're

1043
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 1: going to do our best to make sure that we

1044
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:15,399
Speaker 1: can help other people learn to play this kind of game.

1045
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:19,799
Speaker 1: It's cool and tell stories with your friends about different groups.

1046
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 1: I mean, it's literally a game about different groups that

1047
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 1: have to work together or they'll also get crushed by

1048
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 1: the god King and it's called The Number City. You

1049
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:29,320
Speaker 1: can back it on Kickstarter. Sophie, what you Got.

1050
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 3: We have a new show on cloz and Media that

1051
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:36,839
Speaker 3: will have launched by the time this episode come out,

1052
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:41,800
Speaker 3: I believe, with j kN Rahan. It's called sad Oligirk.

1053
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 3: It is a modern true crime style investigative series that

1054
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 3: looks into the many, many many deaths of Russian oligirks

1055
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:54,399
Speaker 3: over the last year or so and Jake is investigating

1056
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 3: the corruption there. It is very good, so check that

1057
00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 3: out sad Oligirk on all the apps.

1058
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 1: I'm excited about that.

1059
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 2: Ed was coming on too soon.

1060
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:07,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And we will see you all next Monday

1061
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 1: when we learn about more cool people who No, I

1062
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 1: can't even do it straight face, cool people, cool stuff

1063
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 1: if you're doing it, yeah, cool people who did.

1064
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,719
Speaker 3: Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media. For

1065
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:26,440
Speaker 3: more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

1066
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,359
Speaker 3: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1067
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.